Sari Greene’s path from a successful tech entrepreneur to a dedicated public servant reveals the evolving role of cybersecurity in today’s world. As founder of Sage Data Security, Sari was ahead of her time—building a company focused on protecting sensitive information long before cybersecurity became mainstream.
In this episode, Sari shares candid insights into launching a tech company in the early 2000s, navigating investor challenges that threatened her company culture, and making tough decisions to preserve her team’s integrity. She reflects on how her entrepreneurial spirit evolved into a mission-driven commitment to protect public trust.
More than just a technology expert, Sari views cybersecurity as a civic duty—a responsibility to safeguard the private data people entrust to institutions. Now, she mentors the next generation of cybersecurity professionals, empowering them to defend companies, communities, and countries against growing digital threats and internal complacency.
Join us, along with guest co-host Jason Sfire, President and Founder of multiple family-owned businesses, for a deep dive into the intersection of technology, ethics, and leadership with Sari Greene, whose journey embodies resilience, vision, and service.
Key Takeaways:
- From tech founder to public servant: evolving roles in cybersecurity
- Preserving company culture amid investor challenges
- Cybersecurity as a civic duty protecting public trust
- Mentoring future leaders to combat digital threats
About Sari Greene:
Sari Stern Greene is a cybersecurity entrepreneur, best-selling author, educator, and investor. She serves on the Bangor Savings Bank Board of Directors and chairs the Enterprise Risk Management Committee. She was appointed by the Governor Maine to the Maine Gambling Control Board and served as Election official for the City of South Portland. Sari, is a NACD Board Fellow and has earned numerous tech and cybersecurity related certifications. She is an enthusiastic traveler, avid sailor and an active Rotarian.
Connect:
Website: www.sarigreenegroup.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sarigreene/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The following programming is sponsored by Marc
J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
Entrepreneur, founder, authorand financial advisor, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingbusiness owners turn their
visions into reality.
Through his innovative work andthe Forward Focus Forums, Marc
(00:21):
connects entrepreneurs toresources that fuel their
success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
share their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind their success.
Join Marc and his guests for amix of inspiration, valuable
insights and a little fun.
Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:40):
Good morning America.
How are you?
Do I hear an echo in here?
Good morning America.
Sari Greene (00:43):
How are you?
Hey, hear an echo in here.
Good morning America.
How are you?
Marc Bernstein (00:45):
Hey, good morning America.
Hey, that was great.
I like that.
We've never really done thatbefore.
So here we are in our lastcouple of shows, last three
shows, actually in southwestFlorida.
So what we've been doing whilewe're doing it here is we've
been recording a couple shows ata time for future play.
So I've got two great guestsguests today.
And I don't want to forgetabout roger marley, our engineer
(01:09):
in the studio, who, uh, hasdone a great job.
It's been, it's really been funworking with your odds and, uh,
we'll do it again next season.
Yeah, big thumbs up from rogerRoger.
So, and we're anyway so ourguests.
We're going to have some fun.
Today.
Our guests are two more peopleI've met while I'm in Babcock
(01:31):
Ranch and I keep talking aboutBabcock Ranch because there's a
lot to talk about and they mayeven want to add to the
conversation, but it's thehometown of tomorrow and it's a
lot of cool things going onthere in southwest florida and
we all found out about it indifferent ways and and I think
we're all loving it there andI'm loving it here and can't
wait to come back after our,after we return north to
(01:52):
philadelphia for a while.
So, uh, we have in the with usthis morning.
That was Sari and Jason, andI'll introduce them formally in
a minute.
But our topic of the daybecause it keeps coming up every
day that I'm talking to peoplein different ways is AI, and
I've done a lot of shows on AIand we've had AI founders on
here and they're advocates forAI and we've also talked about
(02:13):
the dangers of AI.
But I just want to get yourimpressions because since I've
done it, it's been a few monthsand things have evolved a lot
since then, both on the businessside and on the innovation side
and on the regulatory side ofit, and I just want to get your
thoughts.
And Sari, as you'll find out,is a technology person.
Let's start with you.
Sari Greene (02:34):
Sure.
So you know, when I think aboutAI right now, I just think
about it as a problem-solvingtool, which is really what it is
.
Right, it's leading toinnovation, but you know, it's a
lot like the car was or theInternet.
It's a tool right now.
Tomorrow, though, with the nextgeneration of AI, which is
known as artificial generalintelligence, it will really
start rivaling humanintelligence without
(02:56):
intervention, and then,ultimately, the theoretical is
artificial super intelligence,which surpasses human
intelligence.
So when I'm thinking about AInow, I'm really thinking about
therails.
All right, what do we do interms of governance?
What do we do in terms ofethics?
And then, how are ouradversaries using ai in ways
that potentially seek to harm us?
Marc Bernstein (03:15):
that was great.
You covered all my questions allin one yeah, most of it was way
over my head, to be honest, butbut the last part that you
talked about surpassing humanintelligence is the conversation
I was having yesterday, becauseI've been told that's less than
five years away, which ispretty great I think a lot of
that really depends on on thedevelopment of supercomputers
that can, they can handle that,and with chips in flux right now
(03:39):
, who knows what the time frameactually is right and and what's
happening in the researchuniversities that could have an
impact as well.
Sari Greene (03:46):
Um but, but it'll come, it'll come, and so that's
why these, the guardrails andthe ethics components of it, are
so critical right now to betalking about Jason what?
Marc Bernstein (03:55):
what is within your range to talk about?
Jason Sfire (03:57):
yeah, no, what's interesting is and actually sari
kind of like highlightedsomething that I've experienced
recently, because in my businessin the you know, as you're
going to introduce me soon in,in the commercial real estate
business, we don't have a tonright now to do with AI, but I
have kind of an interestingstory that the guardrail piece
is super important.
And I would say for sure, sari,because I have a couple of
(04:17):
young children still and I'veseen how they have started to
use AI on their own, even forschoolwork or things like that,
and it's causing problems evenon such a small micro level like
that where at home.
Imagine what it can do toimpact business for
entrepreneurs like ourselves ifthere aren't guardrails that are
put out in the future.
Sari Greene (04:38):
I would agree.
I think it introduces a levelof bias we have to be very
careful about.
Jason Sfire (04:42):
You're probably right there.
Marc Bernstein (04:43):
Well, a lot of good information in that short
period of time, because we haveto move on, because we all know
how quick 28 minutes goes on theshow, so I do want to introduce
them.
So, um.
So I'll introduce Jason first,because we'll do his longer
introduction on his uh on hisshow.
But, um, uh, Jason Sfire, as Isay correctly, perfectly cool.
Jason wheels Sfire.
(05:03):
That's it and you'll understandthe wheels.
Jason Sfire, did I say itcorrectly?
Perfectly Cool, Jason Wheels'Sfire.
That's it, and you'llunderstand the wheels better in
a bit when you hear his story.
But also, I think, a wheels onSfire, which is pretty cool.
Yeah, that's kind of how Iremember it.
So, anyway, he's president andowner of multiple family-owned
businesses, primarily calledUnder the Fidelity Group, and
(05:25):
when we get to his show you'llhear a lot more about that.
Sari Greene, as you might havealready figured out, as a cyber
security entrepreneur, she'salso an author, educator,
investor, community activist, umand um she serves on.
Currently her company wascalled sage sage, sage data
Security, sage Data Security.
You'll hear she no longer ownsthe company but she's very
(05:51):
active, serving on the BangorMaine Savings Bank Board of
Directors and chairs theEnterprise Risk Management
Committee of that.
She was appointed by theGovernor of Maine to the Maine
Gambling Control Board andserved as election official for
the city of South Portland,maine.
Sari is an NACD board fellowand has earned numerous tech and
(06:12):
cybersecurity-relatedcertifications, and she's an
enthusiastic traveler andparticularly an avid sailor,
which is an interesting part ofher story which hopefully we can
get to.
I know it'll come into it andalso she's an active Rotarian,
so welcomeari, welcome thank you.
Thank you, glad to be here greatto have you both here today.
So, Sari um you're.
(06:32):
It's interesting how you becamean entrepreneur and why don't
you tell us from the beginninghow that started?
Sari Greene (06:38):
sure.
So I think it started somewherearound kindergarten when I
decided I needed to raise somemoney and, um, instead of doing
lemonade, I thought, well, whatdo we have a lot?
Of inventory of.
And in my house my parents werebig users of dry cleaners so we
had a lot of hangers and Ithought everybody needs hangers
and we have them, so mygrandparents were taking care of
me.
Marc Bernstein (06:57):
We just moved in .
Sari Greene (06:58):
I wish you were around now Right right, I could
have used those a few years ago,when I moved into our place too
, I set up my card table and mylittle sign five cents a hanger
and took every piece of clothing, I think, in the household off
their hangers and brought themout to the front.
And my grandparents were alittle appalled and said you
can't do that.
And I was like I was alwaysbossy, even as a little kid, and
(07:21):
I was like I can, I can andcome home and see what your
daughter's doing.
And so he raced home His officewas five minutes or so from the
house, Came in, saw what I wasdoing I think, maybe a little
embarrassed, Told me I had tocount how many hangers I had,
account for my entire inventory,Paid me the five cents per
hanger for my inventory, withthe caveat that I brought it
into the house and puteverything back on the hangers.
(07:42):
And I think that was my firstof many entrepreneurial pursuits
.
Marc Bernstein (07:47):
That might've been your best, because you got
your father to pay for somethingthat he already owned.
Sari Greene (07:50):
That's right.
Yep, that's good.
Announcer (07:53):
Pretty cool.
Marc Bernstein (07:57):
And your father was a doctor, but he was an
entrepreneur.
Sari Greene (07:59):
He was an entrepreneur, he had his own
practice, yeah absolutely so.
Marc Bernstein (08:03):
how did that you know?
How did your education bringyou to starting a business?
Sari Greene (08:06):
and your education and your experience so it turns
out that I'm not a particularlygood employee but I'm a great
boss.
Announcer (08:16):
I think I've noticed that in a little time.
There you go.
Sari Greene (08:18):
So I've got very definite ideas and I feel very
strongly about them ideas andfeel very strongly about them.
And so I, you know, I workedfor other people for a while and
then moved into co-founding atechnical education center and
then, after I left that, Iwanted to do something else and
it was 2000 and 2002, 2001 and2002, and decided to launch a
(08:42):
data security business, whichwas an interesting time to do it
, because when I would say topeople I'm launching a data
security business, you know whatthey said to me?
They all said what's that?
Announcer (08:52):
What's that.
Sari Greene (08:53):
And now you know, 25-something years later, when I
said to people I had a datasecurity company, they're like
oh yeah, that was a good time todo it.
Great idea, yeah, everybody youknow, of course we all use the
term cybersecurity, not datasecurity, but you know it was
definitely a good time.
Marc Bernstein (09:06):
Everyone talks about data security yeah, it was
really the time to do it.
Interesting.
So how did you go?
I know you had a job for a bitbefore you started your company,
so tell us how that progressionworked came back and it was
time to do something new.
Sari Greene (09:21):
And I'd been in tech my whole career and I was
getting more and more concernedabout the amount of data that we
were all collecting and were weprotecting that appropriately?
(09:42):
Did we even know how to protectit appropriately?
And because I had an educationside background at that point,
as well as tech, I thought, youknow, it'd be really good if we
had a company that taught peoplehow to protect their data.
And this is also the beginningof the regulatory era where we
had HIPAA for the Privacy andSecurity of Medical Data and
GLBA Gramm-Lidge-Bliley Act forthe Privacy and Security of
(10:04):
Financial Data.
So I said I'm going toestablish a training center,
primarily to teach everyone,from executives or decision
makers to folks who are puttingtheir hands on the Sfire, how to
protect the data.
Marc Bernstein (10:16):
And it was called Sage, presumably because
you're sharing wisdom.
Sari Greene (10:20):
Actually, not so because one of the first people
who were working with me was adear friend who was in sales and
her name was Allison Earnhardtand her husband said if we go,
Sari, Allison Greene Earnhardtwe have.
Announcer (10:33):
Sage.
Sari Greene (10:33):
And that's how we came up with Sage Data Security.
And so, yeah, we started with athree-classroom training center
.
Marc Bernstein (10:40):
It works because it's all about information.
Sari Greene (10:42):
Yeah, it worked great, but a three classroom
training center and justlaunched and went forward with
the idea of you know, do good,be good, Do good work and be
good to your employees, to yourcustomers and to their customers
.
Marc Bernstein (10:56):
And I know you wanted to serve the community as
well.
That's part of the be good.
Sari Greene (10:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, I always I'vethought, from the beginning of
data security or cybersecurityreally is a civic duty, right
it's, you know, and the way wewould talk to our clients, which
are primarily financialinstitutions and hospitals, were
that their patients and theircustomers were sharing very
private data with them, right,and so by them protecting it, it
was really a matter of honoringthe public trust, and that's
(11:22):
really the way I've alwaysthought about it.
Marc Bernstein (11:24):
But you morphed into the company, morphed into
something else.
Sari Greene (11:27):
It did.
So we thought initially wewould do about 80% training,
about 20% consulting.
But we listened to our clientsand our clients said gee, you
know, we really need people tocome and do the work you're
doing.
So we listened to them and wedid started with setting up
chief information securityofficer services for them.
Then we moved into threathunting and we created one of
(11:48):
the first major threat huntingapplications in the country and
started really being able to bevery proactive to look for
anomalous or suspicious activityand over time all our
classrooms closed up and turnedinto really into workspaces and
by the end we were probablydoing maybe 5% education and
really about 85% services, 95%services.
Marc Bernstein (12:11):
Whenever I talk to entrepreneurs, I always talk
about that.
Being an entrepreneur it's not asmooth ride Jason will be able
to speak to that yeah, a littlebit, a little bit me too and
almost everyone I have on theshow, but not sari, when I first
talked to her, because she said, you know, actually things went
along pretty smoothly.
But we drove here this morningtogether from babcock ranch and
(12:33):
she said, you know, I wasthinking about it.
There was one really challengeI have and I'm thinking we have
a couple minutes, we'll justintroduce it, but I think we'll
get more into it after the breakbut there was one challenge
that you did face which couldhave been could have, you know,
really hurt the company in amajor way.
It didn't end up doing that,but do you want to mention it
(12:54):
real quick.
I think we'll have to finish.
Sari Greene (12:56):
Yeah, so we brought in some investors.
We were, let's say, 2012,.
So we were eight years, 10years into the company when we
first brought in some investors.
And bringing in investorsbrought in some set of
challenges that we can talkabout.
Marc Bernstein (13:10):
That sounds great.
So let's take a quick break, acommercial break, and we'll be
back on Founders Forum in just aminute.
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Marc Bernstein (14:34):
Hey, we're back on Founders Forum with our guest
today, sari Greene, and we haveJason Sfire in the studio with
us, who will please listen tohis show part one and part two
as well, because it's quite astory.
So, sari, we're starting totalk about.
You got investors in yourcompany and they presented
challenges.
Let's talk about that.
Sari Greene (14:53):
So they did.
So I initially bootstrapped thecompany, so it's all on me,
let's talk about that.
So they did, you know.
So I initially bootstrapped thecompany, so it's all on me.
Built a great leadership team.
We were profitable from aboutyear three on.
Things were going really well.
But, as I mentioned earlier, wehad this threat hunting
application and we really neededto enhance it and it meant that
I wanted to do a multi-milliondollar build out of the
(15:14):
application itself.
Marc Bernstein (15:17):
Just describe real quick what threat hunting
is so.
Sari Greene (15:20):
threat hunting means that we're taking
information that's logged by allthe various different devices
in a network, whether it's yourSfire or your computer, or an
application or a database and beable to look at the log of
activities to determine ifthere's any suspicious or
anomalous activity.
So it's someone trying to harmyou.
Which I would think is a commonthing today right, very common
(15:42):
thing, very common thing and foreverybody, not everybody.
But we really wanted to do amajor build out and we were at
the early stage of that, I wouldassume, as well.
Well, we actually started thatin 2007, and we had done our own
investments, but then we weresort of at this launch point.
If we were going to competenationwide and globally, we
(16:03):
really needed to do more, and soI made the decision to take on
investors, opposed to borrowingmoney, and so we ended up
working with a search firm.
And a search firm actuallycomes out of Stanford, which is
investors, or generally peoplewho have been operators of a
company say they're going toinvest in smaller companies to
(16:27):
help them grow, but they bringin their own management, and
that management are generallyMBAs straight out of school,
straight out of Wharton orStanford or Harvard, and they
come in to really grow thecompany, if you will, but more
often than not, they're comingin to fix a problem, and we
didn't have a problem to fixright.
We just really needed thecapital and the guidance,
(16:49):
particularly from the investors,not as much from the MBAs.
Investors not as much from theMBAs.
Unfortunately, they came in witha lot of hubris, guns blaring
and feeling like they reallyknew everything they needed to
know about the business, withouteven ever talking to us or to
our clients, and the best way Ican describe it is our two young
MBAs came in in November and itwas January before they met
(17:10):
with my leadership team and thatreally caused a lot of problems
.
They were doing theirspreadsheets and figuring out
what they needed to do and itwas a really I was there for
that year and it was a reallyreally tough year on all of us.
And by the end of the year soit was in November, so by the
following November, the companywas no longer profitable and the
(17:31):
entire leadership team alwaysbeen profitable and the entire
leadership team was really in amutiny state.
They were like we just can't dothis anymore.
So I was also an investor inthis part of the company and I
walked into our board.
I sat on the board of directorsand said these guys have to go,
and we had a brief discussionabout it and they said okay,
they're gone.
They said okay, they're goneand we had a very tumultuous
(17:54):
year, but at the end of thatyear they were gone.
I came back in full time to runthe company again and then
ultimately, we promotedleadership from within to
continue on as senior leadership.
Jason Sfire (18:08):
So, Sarah, it sounds like it was.
Not only did they come in andmake some changes, but they
almost changed the culture ofyour company in that short year.
It was almost like your companyculture had shifted.
Sari Greene (18:19):
Yeah, they didn't make too many changes, but the
culture is absolutely right.
We were a team and the best wayto think about us as a team is
our end-year bonuses.
Everybody got the same bonus.
It wasn't based on your salary,it wasn't based on your job
position.
We were a team and we neededevery one of us right to work
together to provide the servicesthat we did to our clients.
Jason Sfire (18:38):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Sari Greene (18:38):
And they came in.
You know there's a hierarchy,right, they're way up here, the
rest of us are peons.
But just you know, if you don'thave a sense of curiosity, you
can't grow right.
If you don't know, what dopeople need?
What do your employees need?
What do your customers need?
What's happening out in theworld?
Jason Sfire (18:53):
No, it's a great perspective.
Yeah it's a great perspective,a great lesson for our listeners
as well.
Marc Bernstein (18:57):
100% we talk culture.
Company culture is one of theprobably the number one topic
that we talk about on the show,so you were pretty firm about
what had to be done next and youdid it.
Sari Greene (19:09):
We did it Absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (19:11):
And was that a when you had to go to the board
and present your argument aboutwhy these guys should be out?
You must have been pretty wellprepared for that and pretty
powerful in your presentation.
Sari Greene (19:23):
Well, I also served on the board, so this had been
an ongoing conversation, but itwas really.
I don't think there was achoice.
Right, we're going to lose theleadership team.
We're going to stop makingmoney Right.
You know, and because I waswilling to step back in.
It was just really a faitaccompli.
But it was a stressful year andI will always be very, very
(19:43):
grateful to my leadership team,to really the entire team, to
sticking it out.
You know, when I'd say, come on, we got to keep doing this, he
stuck with me and I will alwaysbe grateful to them for that.
Marc Bernstein (19:53):
I hear a lot of these stories, though you fade
out complete and you think it'sjust obvious this had to be done
.
But you hear investors andprivate equity firms and venture
capitalists coming in all thetime and not necessarily doing
what's rational in the names ofegos or in the names of how
their cash should best be used.
I guess I wasn't going to letit end any other way, that's
(20:16):
exactly what I wanted to get to.
Jason Sfire (20:17):
That got back to the fact that you're a better
boss than an employee.
Sari Greene (20:20):
A better boss.
I can be a force of nature whennecessary.
Marc Bernstein (20:25):
Your life now, since the company has changed
and you're still very busy Iknow from my only few weeks of
knowing you and how busy you areI want to ask you we ask
everybody your future vision,your three-year vision.
So, if we're, this is April of2028 and we're all here talking
(20:46):
what would have to happen overthat three-year period for you
to feel that that was asuccessful year in your life and
in your activities?
Sari Greene (20:51):
I think it's you know from so, from
professionally, you know.
So we did sell.
Eventually the company was soldand acquired by a public
company, so we had a really goodexit.
And then I currently teach,right, so I teach cybersecurity
professionals who are looking toenhance their career and earn
certifications.
So when I think about sort ofprofessional vision, you know,
(21:11):
I've always really thought aboutthe fact that in cyber we live
in pretty turbulent times, rightthat we have an external enemy
those who seek to do us harm butnow we have an internal enemy,
I think as well, and that'sthose who choose to no longer
support our safeguards and ourdefense mechanisms.
So my mission really is tocontinue to mentor and encourage
and really lift up the nextgeneration of cybersecurity
(21:35):
professionals who are committedto protecting their companies
and their communities and theirfamilies and our country.
Marc Bernstein (21:44):
And I know that you do that out of service,
because you don't need to do itat this point, and it's not just
because it's what you know,it's because you think it's a
really imminent threat tocommunities and to the world,
and that's why you're doing this.
Sari Greene (21:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (22:00):
I think that's pretty amazing.
So we always have closing roundquestions, and my first
question for you is what bookare you currently reading?
Sari Greene (22:11):
So I'm currently reading the First Ladies, which
is the story about EleanorRoosevelt and Mary McLeod
Bethune.
It's historical fiction.
I'm not usually a fan ofhistorical fiction I'm a big
nonfiction reader but this bookis really.
It's fascinating because ittalks about how these two very,
very powerful women, in both intheir own rights, really
(22:33):
navigated some very, verybrutally honest conversations
and ultimately cemented anamazing friendship.
Marc Bernstein (22:40):
Who wrote that book?
Because I've heard about it.
Oh, you're going to stump me.
Sari Greene (22:45):
It's the same two women who wrote the Personal
Librarian.
Marc Bernstein (22:48):
Yeah, because I've heard about the book.
I've heard about the book andthere's a lot of interesting
things written about FirstLadies and their interactions
that are accurate.
Sari Greene (22:55):
actually, it's really interesting
behind-the-scenes stuff, Onebeing the First Lady of the
United States and the otherreally being considered the
First Lady of what she wouldrefer to at the point of Negro
population, or what we refer toas African American or black
population.
Marc Bernstein (23:12):
Very cool and I know you have a favorite song,
but you've been holding me insuspense about what it is.
Sari Greene (23:19):
Well, you know I was thinking about that and it's
not actually a favorite song.
I love to sing in community, Ilove when people get together
and sing and I do a lot ofkeynoting and I always make my
audience sing a song.
I'll create a song with lyricsto a tune that they might know,
so it might be like If I had aHammer.
Or this Land is your Land right?
Arlo Guthrie, no Arlo Guthrie.
(23:39):
Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger orHebrew songs like you know, ose
Shalom or even Sweet Carolineright that everybody can go bum,
bum, bum.
I just love, I love, I love whenpeople Sing Ose Shalom for
Jason.
Marc Bernstein (23:51):
Yeah, I will.
Sari Greene (23:52):
That I love when people sing in a round in
harmony.
Just rousing you and me both.
To me that's the best.
You mentioned that I sail a lotand I would do night watches
and I always knew that thesewere the songs I loved because
to keep myself really focusedand stuff, I'd be busy singing
these songs.
So it's not a song, it's justbeing able to sing.
Marc Bernstein (24:14):
It's songs, it's being able able to sing it's
songs, it's being able to singtogether.
Well, you've certainly struckmy heart with that, because I'm
all about the song, both interms of what I do as a musician
.
But I'm singing all the timeFor some people like that, some
don't.
Sari Greene (24:28):
I love it.
I love singing with people.
You should come to Bat.
Marc Bernstein (24:31):
Pop.
Jams love singing peopleexactly in the park, we sing and
play guitars and and I, a lotof people look down on it
because you know we havedifferent levels of playing
there and some people are like,wow, this isn't really jam
sessions, these are, we're justreading chords and singing songs
.
But I love that.
Sari Greene (24:45):
I love doing it with people at all levels of it
I think the most beautifulinstrument is really the human
voice, right?
Marc Bernstein (24:51):
yeah, that's cool yeah, funny, you say that
too because I've always been amusician and a non-singer but
I've been taking voice lessonsfor the last few years because I
realized that I can sing if Ichoose to, and um, and you know
something, it's and there's andthere's a.
Some people come by it realnaturally and uh, you know,
first band I was ever in, a guyhad never read a note of music
(25:13):
in his life, but he just had avoice and he had basically
perfect pitch.
We could tune our guitars.
We'd say sing the first note ofthis song and we could tune our
guitars to him.
Jason Sfire (25:23):
I only say yeah, because that's how my daughter
is.
She actually leads worship atmultiple churches back in
Illinois.
Oh cool, yeah.
So she's never read a note ofmusic in her life, but she just
picked up singing.
Marc Bernstein (25:34):
She got after it .
You ever sing with Tom.
You're upstairs neighbor.
Sari Greene (25:37):
Yep, yep, but you know, I think it's even more
than that, I think when peoplesing, particularly people who
aren't professional singers,there's a vulnerability, and
when you expose thatvulnerability to each other, you
just build something reallyvery special.
Jason Sfire (25:49):
There's something powerful when people come
together around something.
It's almost like a rally,absolutely.
You know, uh, just gatheraround to sing, or praise or
whatever they're doing.
Marc Bernstein (26:02):
It's just, it's cool.
There's power in that.
I would agree with you.
Question about it um, we so wedon't talk about religion a lot,
but I know you're.
You're a church guy, Jason yeah,for sure and you'd mentioned no
session alone, which is asynagogue song.
I I was very active with musicin the synagogue, playing guitar
and doing all that, and reallyI realized that's such an
important part of myspirituality and that sort of
changed and I don't have thesame connection there anymore.
(26:23):
So I'm actually considering andI'm affiliating with a black
synagogue in Philadelphia thathas all the tunes but do it in a
very kind of spiritual settingand I've actually sat in with
them and with the band there andsang and it's really uplifting.
(26:44):
So it's so, it's a veryinteresting experience.
Either of you have any closingcomments or thoughts?
Sari Greene (26:51):
we have about half a minute left well, this is a
great conversation and I can'twait to continue and hear your
story no, I'm excited.
Jason Sfire (26:58):
I I'm actually really intrigued to actually
learn a little bit more aboutall the stuff sari was talking
about, because it's so kind ofover my head from what I do.
But I know that it's it'scutting edge and it's forefront
of what we need to do,especially when we get to what
my three-year vision is.
I think it's going to beimportant for me to kind of
understand that.
So it was enlightening for meto hear that kind of firsthand.
Marc Bernstein (27:16):
You should do something at the hatchery.
They have these mix and mingles.
You should talk there.
Yeah, and people like us couldattend and hear that.
Jason Sfire (27:23):
It would be a great idea.
Yeah, us cybersecurity laymencan come listen.
Marc Bernstein (27:28):
The hatchery, by the way, is the workspace, the
co-workspace at Babcock Ranch,which people come from all over
outside the community actuallyto come work there.
It's pretty interesting.
Well, listen, it's great tohave you both here today and
great to have all of youlistening to us today, and we
always seem to have interestingconversations one way or the
(27:49):
other on Founders Forum.
So thanks for listening andwe'll see you again next week on
Founders Forum and have a greatday.
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Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:40):
Good morning America.
How are you?
Do I hear an echo in here?
Good morning America.
Sari Greene (00:43):
How are you?
Hey, hear an echo in here.
Good morning America.
How are you?
Marc Bernstein (00:45):
Hey, good morning America.
Hey, that was great.
I like that.
We've never really done thatbefore.
So here we are in our lastcouple of shows, last three
shows, actually in southwestFlorida.
So what we've been doing whilewe're doing it here is we've
been recording a couple shows ata time for future play.
So I've got two great guestsguests today.
And I don't want to forgetabout roger marley, our engineer
(01:09):
in the studio, who, uh, hasdone a great job.
It's been, it's really been funworking with your odds and, uh,
we'll do it again next season.
Yeah, big thumbs up from rogerRoger.
So, and we're anyway so ourguests.
We're going to have some fun.
Today.
Our guests are two more peopleI've met while I'm in Babcock
(01:31):
Ranch and I keep talking aboutBabcock Ranch because there's a
lot to talk about and they mayeven want to add to the
conversation, but it's thehometown of tomorrow and it's a
lot of cool things going onthere in southwest florida and
we all found out about it indifferent ways and and I think
we're all loving it there andI'm loving it here and can't
wait to come back after our,after we return north to
(01:52):
philadelphia for a while.
So, uh, we have in the with usthis morning.
That was Sari and Jason, andI'll introduce them formally in
a minute.
But our topic of the daybecause it keeps coming up every
day that I'm talking to peoplein different ways is AI, and
I've done a lot of shows on AIand we've had AI founders on
here and they're advocates forAI and we've also talked about
(02:13):
the dangers of AI.
But I just want to get yourimpressions because since I've
done it, it's been a few monthsand things have evolved a lot
since then, both on the businessside and on the innovation side
and on the regulatory side ofit, and I just want to get your
thoughts.
And Sari, as you'll find out,is a technology person.
Let's start with you.
Sari Greene (02:34):
Sure.
So you know, when I think aboutAI right now, I just think
about it as a problem-solvingtool, which is really what it is
.
Right, it's leading toinnovation, but you know, it's a
lot like the car was or theInternet.
It's a tool right now.
Tomorrow, though, with the nextgeneration of AI, which is
known as artificial generalintelligence, it will really
start rivaling humanintelligence without
(02:56):
intervention, and then,ultimately, the theoretical is
artificial super intelligence,which surpasses human
intelligence.
So when I'm thinking about AInow, I'm really thinking about
therails.
All right, what do we do interms of governance?
What do we do in terms ofethics?
And then, how are ouradversaries using ai in ways
that potentially seek to harm us?
Marc Bernstein (03:15):
that was great.
You covered all my questions allin one yeah, most of it was way
over my head, to be honest, butbut the last part that you
talked about surpassing humanintelligence is the conversation
I was having yesterday, becauseI've been told that's less than
five years away, which ispretty great I think a lot of
that really depends on on thedevelopment of supercomputers
that can, they can handle that,and with chips in flux right now
(03:39):
, who knows what the time frameactually is right and and what's
happening in the researchuniversities that could have an
impact as well.
Sari Greene (03:46):
Um but, but it'll come, it'll come, and so that's
why these, the guardrails andthe ethics components of it, are
so critical right now to betalking about Jason what?
Marc Bernstein (03:55):
what is within your range to talk about?
Jason Sfire (03:57):
yeah, no, what's interesting is and actually sari
kind of like highlightedsomething that I've experienced
recently, because in my businessin the you know, as you're
going to introduce me soon in,in the commercial real estate
business, we don't have a tonright now to do with AI, but I
have kind of an interestingstory that the guardrail piece
is super important.
And I would say for sure, sari,because I have a couple of
(04:17):
young children still and I'veseen how they have started to
use AI on their own, even forschoolwork or things like that,
and it's causing problems evenon such a small micro level like
that where at home.
Imagine what it can do toimpact business for
entrepreneurs like ourselves ifthere aren't guardrails that are
put out in the future.
Sari Greene (04:38):
I would agree.
I think it introduces a levelof bias we have to be very
careful about.
Jason Sfire (04:42):
You're probably right there.
Marc Bernstein (04:43):
Well, a lot of good information in that short
period of time, because we haveto move on, because we all know
how quick 28 minutes goes on theshow, so I do want to introduce
them.
So, um.
So I'll introduce Jason first,because we'll do his longer
introduction on his uh on hisshow.
But, um, uh, Jason Sfire, as Isay correctly, perfectly cool.
Jason wheels Sfire.
(05:03):
That's it and you'll understandthe wheels.
Jason Sfire, did I say itcorrectly?
Perfectly Cool, Jason Wheels'Sfire.
That's it, and you'llunderstand the wheels better in
a bit when you hear his story.
But also, I think, a wheels onSfire, which is pretty cool.
Yeah, that's kind of how Iremember it.
So, anyway, he's president andowner of multiple family-owned
businesses, primarily calledUnder the Fidelity Group, and
(05:25):
when we get to his show you'llhear a lot more about that.
Sari Greene, as you might havealready figured out, as a cyber
security entrepreneur, she'salso an author, educator,
investor, community activist, umand um she serves on.
Currently her company wascalled sage sage, sage data
Security, sage Data Security.
You'll hear she no longer ownsthe company but she's very
(05:51):
active, serving on the BangorMaine Savings Bank Board of
Directors and chairs theEnterprise Risk Management
Committee of that.
She was appointed by theGovernor of Maine to the Maine
Gambling Control Board andserved as election official for
the city of South Portland,maine.
Sari is an NACD board fellowand has earned numerous tech and
(06:12):
cybersecurity-relatedcertifications, and she's an
enthusiastic traveler andparticularly an avid sailor,
which is an interesting part ofher story which hopefully we can
get to.
I know it'll come into it andalso she's an active Rotarian,
so welcomeari, welcome thank you.
Thank you, glad to be here greatto have you both here today.
So, Sari um you're.
(06:32):
It's interesting how you becamean entrepreneur and why don't
you tell us from the beginninghow that started?
Sari Greene (06:38):
sure.
So I think it started somewherearound kindergarten when I
decided I needed to raise somemoney and, um, instead of doing
lemonade, I thought, well, whatdo we have a lot?
Of inventory of.
And in my house my parents werebig users of dry cleaners so we
had a lot of hangers and Ithought everybody needs hangers
and we have them, so mygrandparents were taking care of
me.
Marc Bernstein (06:57):
We just moved in .
Sari Greene (06:58):
I wish you were around now Right right, I could
have used those a few years ago,when I moved into our place too
, I set up my card table and mylittle sign five cents a hanger
and took every piece of clothing, I think, in the household off
their hangers and brought themout to the front.
And my grandparents were alittle appalled and said you
can't do that.
And I was like I was alwaysbossy, even as a little kid, and
(07:21):
I was like I can, I can andcome home and see what your
daughter's doing.
And so he raced home His officewas five minutes or so from the
house, Came in, saw what I wasdoing I think, maybe a little
embarrassed, Told me I had tocount how many hangers I had,
account for my entire inventory,Paid me the five cents per
hanger for my inventory, withthe caveat that I brought it
into the house and puteverything back on the hangers.
(07:42):
And I think that was my firstof many entrepreneurial pursuits
.
Marc Bernstein (07:47):
That might've been your best, because you got
your father to pay for somethingthat he already owned.
Sari Greene (07:50):
That's right.
Yep, that's good.
Announcer (07:53):
Pretty cool.
Marc Bernstein (07:57):
And your father was a doctor, but he was an
entrepreneur.
Sari Greene (07:59):
He was an entrepreneur, he had his own
practice, yeah absolutely so.
Marc Bernstein (08:03):
how did that you know?
How did your education bringyou to starting a business?
Sari Greene (08:06):
and your education and your experience so it turns
out that I'm not a particularlygood employee but I'm a great
boss.
Announcer (08:16):
I think I've noticed that in a little time.
There you go.
Sari Greene (08:18):
So I've got very definite ideas and I feel very
strongly about them ideas andfeel very strongly about them.
And so I, you know, I workedfor other people for a while and
then moved into co-founding atechnical education center and
then, after I left that, Iwanted to do something else and
it was 2000 and 2002, 2001 and2002, and decided to launch a
(08:42):
data security business, whichwas an interesting time to do it
, because when I would say topeople I'm launching a data
security business, you know whatthey said to me?
They all said what's that?
Announcer (08:52):
What's that.
Sari Greene (08:53):
And now you know, 25-something years later, when I
said to people I had a datasecurity company, they're like
oh yeah, that was a good time todo it.
Great idea, yeah, everybody youknow, of course we all use the
term cybersecurity, not datasecurity, but you know it was
definitely a good time.
Marc Bernstein (09:06):
Everyone talks about data security yeah, it was
really the time to do it.
Interesting.
So how did you go?
I know you had a job for a bitbefore you started your company,
so tell us how that progressionworked came back and it was
time to do something new.
Sari Greene (09:21):
And I'd been in tech my whole career and I was
getting more and more concernedabout the amount of data that we
were all collecting and were weprotecting that appropriately?
(09:42):
Did we even know how to protectit appropriately?
And because I had an educationside background at that point,
as well as tech, I thought, youknow, it'd be really good if we
had a company that taught peoplehow to protect their data.
And this is also the beginningof the regulatory era where we
had HIPAA for the Privacy andSecurity of Medical Data and
GLBA Gramm-Lidge-Bliley Act forthe Privacy and Security of
(10:04):
Financial Data.
So I said I'm going toestablish a training center,
primarily to teach everyone,from executives or decision
makers to folks who are puttingtheir hands on the Sfire, how to
protect the data.
Marc Bernstein (10:16):
And it was called Sage, presumably because
you're sharing wisdom.
Sari Greene (10:20):
Actually, not so because one of the first people
who were working with me was adear friend who was in sales and
her name was Allison Earnhardtand her husband said if we go,
Sari, Allison Greene Earnhardtwe have.
Announcer (10:33):
Sage.
Sari Greene (10:33):
And that's how we came up with Sage Data Security.
And so, yeah, we started with athree-classroom training center
.
Marc Bernstein (10:40):
It works because it's all about information.
Sari Greene (10:42):
Yeah, it worked great, but a three classroom
training center and justlaunched and went forward with
the idea of you know, do good,be good, Do good work and be
good to your employees, to yourcustomers and to their customers
.
Marc Bernstein (10:56):
And I know you wanted to serve the community as
well.
That's part of the be good.
Sari Greene (10:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, you know, I always I'vethought, from the beginning of
data security or cybersecurityreally is a civic duty, right
it's, you know, and the way wewould talk to our clients, which
are primarily financialinstitutions and hospitals, were
that their patients and theircustomers were sharing very
private data with them, right,and so by them protecting it, it
was really a matter of honoringthe public trust, and that's
(11:22):
really the way I've alwaysthought about it.
Marc Bernstein (11:24):
But you morphed into the company, morphed into
something else.
Sari Greene (11:27):
It did.
So we thought initially wewould do about 80% training,
about 20% consulting.
But we listened to our clientsand our clients said gee, you
know, we really need people tocome and do the work you're
doing.
So we listened to them and wedid started with setting up
chief information securityofficer services for them.
Then we moved into threathunting and we created one of
(11:48):
the first major threat huntingapplications in the country and
started really being able to bevery proactive to look for
anomalous or suspicious activityand over time all our
classrooms closed up and turnedinto really into workspaces and
by the end we were probablydoing maybe 5% education and
really about 85% services, 95%services.
Marc Bernstein (12:11):
Whenever I talk to entrepreneurs, I always talk
about that.
Being an entrepreneur it's not asmooth ride Jason will be able
to speak to that yeah, a littlebit, a little bit me too and
almost everyone I have on theshow, but not sari, when I first
talked to her, because she said, you know, actually things went
along pretty smoothly.
But we drove here this morningtogether from babcock ranch and
(12:33):
she said, you know, I wasthinking about it.
There was one really challengeI have and I'm thinking we have
a couple minutes, we'll justintroduce it, but I think we'll
get more into it after the breakbut there was one challenge
that you did face which couldhave been could have, you know,
really hurt the company in amajor way.
It didn't end up doing that,but do you want to mention it
(12:54):
real quick.
I think we'll have to finish.
Sari Greene (12:56):
Yeah, so we brought in some investors.
We were, let's say, 2012,.
So we were eight years, 10years into the company when we
first brought in some investors.
And bringing in investorsbrought in some set of
challenges that we can talkabout.
Marc Bernstein (13:10):
That sounds great.
So let's take a quick break, acommercial break, and we'll be
back on Founders Forum in just aminute.
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Marc Bernstein (14:34):
Hey, we're back on Founders Forum with our guest
today, sari Greene, and we haveJason Sfire in the studio with
us, who will please listen tohis show part one and part two
as well, because it's quite astory.
So, sari, we're starting totalk about.
You got investors in yourcompany and they presented
challenges.
Let's talk about that.
Sari Greene (14:53):
So they did.
So I initially bootstrapped thecompany, so it's all on me,
let's talk about that.
So they did, you know.
So I initially bootstrapped thecompany, so it's all on me.
Built a great leadership team.
We were profitable from aboutyear three on.
Things were going really well.
But, as I mentioned earlier, wehad this threat hunting
application and we really neededto enhance it and it meant that
I wanted to do a multi-milliondollar build out of the
(15:14):
application itself.
Marc Bernstein (15:17):
Just describe real quick what threat hunting
is so.
Sari Greene (15:20):
threat hunting means that we're taking
information that's logged by allthe various different devices
in a network, whether it's yourSfire or your computer, or an
application or a database and beable to look at the log of
activities to determine ifthere's any suspicious or
anomalous activity.
So it's someone trying to harmyou.
Which I would think is a commonthing today right, very common
(15:42):
thing, very common thing and foreverybody, not everybody.
But we really wanted to do amajor build out and we were at
the early stage of that, I wouldassume, as well.
Well, we actually started thatin 2007, and we had done our own
investments, but then we weresort of at this launch point.
If we were going to competenationwide and globally, we
(16:03):
really needed to do more, and soI made the decision to take on
investors, opposed to borrowingmoney, and so we ended up
working with a search firm.
And a search firm actuallycomes out of Stanford, which is
investors, or generally peoplewho have been operators of a
company say they're going toinvest in smaller companies to
(16:27):
help them grow, but they bringin their own management, and
that management are generallyMBAs straight out of school,
straight out of Wharton orStanford or Harvard, and they
come in to really grow thecompany, if you will, but more
often than not, they're comingin to fix a problem, and we
didn't have a problem to fixright.
We just really needed thecapital and the guidance,
(16:49):
particularly from the investors,not as much from the MBAs.
Investors not as much from theMBAs.
Unfortunately, they came in witha lot of hubris, guns blaring
and feeling like they reallyknew everything they needed to
know about the business, withouteven ever talking to us or to
our clients, and the best way Ican describe it is our two young
MBAs came in in November and itwas January before they met
(17:10):
with my leadership team and thatreally caused a lot of problems
.
They were doing theirspreadsheets and figuring out
what they needed to do and itwas a really I was there for
that year and it was a reallyreally tough year on all of us.
And by the end of the year soit was in November, so by the
following November, the companywas no longer profitable and the
(17:31):
entire leadership team alwaysbeen profitable and the entire
leadership team was really in amutiny state.
They were like we just can't dothis anymore.
So I was also an investor inthis part of the company and I
walked into our board.
I sat on the board of directorsand said these guys have to go,
and we had a brief discussionabout it and they said okay,
they're gone.
They said okay, they're goneand we had a very tumultuous
(17:54):
year, but at the end of thatyear they were gone.
I came back in full time to runthe company again and then
ultimately, we promotedleadership from within to
continue on as senior leadership.
Jason Sfire (18:08):
So, Sarah, it sounds like it was.
Not only did they come in andmake some changes, but they
almost changed the culture ofyour company in that short year.
It was almost like your companyculture had shifted.
Sari Greene (18:19):
Yeah, they didn't make too many changes, but the
culture is absolutely right.
We were a team and the best wayto think about us as a team is
our end-year bonuses.
Everybody got the same bonus.
It wasn't based on your salary,it wasn't based on your job
position.
We were a team and we neededevery one of us right to work
together to provide the servicesthat we did to our clients.
Jason Sfire (18:38):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Sari Greene (18:38):
And they came in.
You know there's a hierarchy,right, they're way up here, the
rest of us are peons.
But just you know, if you don'thave a sense of curiosity, you
can't grow right.
If you don't know, what dopeople need?
What do your employees need?
What do your customers need?
What's happening out in theworld?
Jason Sfire (18:53):
No, it's a great perspective.
Yeah it's a great perspective,a great lesson for our listeners
as well.
Marc Bernstein (18:57):
100% we talk culture.
Company culture is one of theprobably the number one topic
that we talk about on the show,so you were pretty firm about
what had to be done next and youdid it.
Sari Greene (19:09):
We did it Absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (19:11):
And was that a when you had to go to the board
and present your argument aboutwhy these guys should be out?
You must have been pretty wellprepared for that and pretty
powerful in your presentation.
Sari Greene (19:23):
Well, I also served on the board, so this had been
an ongoing conversation, but itwas really.
I don't think there was achoice.
Right, we're going to lose theleadership team.
We're going to stop makingmoney Right.
You know, and because I waswilling to step back in.
It was just really a faitaccompli.
But it was a stressful year andI will always be very, very
(19:43):
grateful to my leadership team,to really the entire team, to
sticking it out.
You know, when I'd say, come on, we got to keep doing this, he
stuck with me and I will alwaysbe grateful to them for that.
Marc Bernstein (19:53):
I hear a lot of these stories, though you fade
out complete and you think it'sjust obvious this had to be done
.
But you hear investors andprivate equity firms and venture
capitalists coming in all thetime and not necessarily doing
what's rational in the names ofegos or in the names of how
their cash should best be used.
I guess I wasn't going to letit end any other way, that's
(20:16):
exactly what I wanted to get to.
Jason Sfire (20:17):
That got back to the fact that you're a better
boss than an employee.
Sari Greene (20:20):
A better boss.
I can be a force of nature whennecessary.
Marc Bernstein (20:25):
Your life now, since the company has changed
and you're still very busy Iknow from my only few weeks of
knowing you and how busy you areI want to ask you we ask
everybody your future vision,your three-year vision.
So, if we're, this is April of2028 and we're all here talking
(20:46):
what would have to happen overthat three-year period for you
to feel that that was asuccessful year in your life and
in your activities?
Sari Greene (20:51):
I think it's you know from so, from
professionally, you know.
So we did sell.
Eventually the company was soldand acquired by a public
company, so we had a really goodexit.
And then I currently teach,right, so I teach cybersecurity
professionals who are looking toenhance their career and earn
certifications.
So when I think about sort ofprofessional vision, you know,
(21:11):
I've always really thought aboutthe fact that in cyber we live
in pretty turbulent times, rightthat we have an external enemy
those who seek to do us harm butnow we have an internal enemy,
I think as well, and that'sthose who choose to no longer
support our safeguards and ourdefense mechanisms.
So my mission really is tocontinue to mentor and encourage
and really lift up the nextgeneration of cybersecurity
(21:35):
professionals who are committedto protecting their companies
and their communities and theirfamilies and our country.
Marc Bernstein (21:44):
And I know that you do that out of service,
because you don't need to do itat this point, and it's not just
because it's what you know,it's because you think it's a
really imminent threat tocommunities and to the world,
and that's why you're doing this.
Sari Greene (21:59):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Marc Bernstein (22:00):
I think that's pretty amazing.
So we always have closing roundquestions, and my first
question for you is what bookare you currently reading?
Sari Greene (22:11):
So I'm currently reading the First Ladies, which
is the story about EleanorRoosevelt and Mary McLeod
Bethune.
It's historical fiction.
I'm not usually a fan ofhistorical fiction I'm a big
nonfiction reader but this bookis really.
It's fascinating because ittalks about how these two very,
very powerful women, in both intheir own rights, really
(22:33):
navigated some very, verybrutally honest conversations
and ultimately cemented anamazing friendship.
Marc Bernstein (22:40):
Who wrote that book?
Because I've heard about it.
Oh, you're going to stump me.
Sari Greene (22:45):
It's the same two women who wrote the Personal
Librarian.
Marc Bernstein (22:48):
Yeah, because I've heard about the book.
I've heard about the book andthere's a lot of interesting
things written about FirstLadies and their interactions
that are accurate.
Sari Greene (22:55):
actually, it's really interesting
behind-the-scenes stuff, Onebeing the First Lady of the
United States and the otherreally being considered the
First Lady of what she wouldrefer to at the point of Negro
population, or what we refer toas African American or black
population.
Marc Bernstein (23:12):
Very cool and I know you have a favorite song,
but you've been holding me insuspense about what it is.
Sari Greene (23:19):
Well, you know I was thinking about that and it's
not actually a favorite song.
I love to sing in community, Ilove when people get together
and sing and I do a lot ofkeynoting and I always make my
audience sing a song.
I'll create a song with lyricsto a tune that they might know,
so it might be like If I had aHammer.
Or this Land is your Land right?
Arlo Guthrie, no Arlo Guthrie.
(23:39):
Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger orHebrew songs like you know, ose
Shalom or even Sweet Carolineright that everybody can go bum,
bum, bum.
I just love, I love, I love whenpeople Sing Ose Shalom for
Jason.
Marc Bernstein (23:51):
Yeah, I will.
Sari Greene (23:52):
That I love when people sing in a round in
harmony.
Just rousing you and me both.
To me that's the best.
You mentioned that I sail a lotand I would do night watches
and I always knew that thesewere the songs I loved because
to keep myself really focusedand stuff, I'd be busy singing
these songs.
So it's not a song, it's justbeing able to sing.
Marc Bernstein (24:14):
It's songs, it's being able able to sing it's
songs, it's being able to singtogether.
Well, you've certainly struckmy heart with that, because I'm
all about the song, both interms of what I do as a musician
.
But I'm singing all the timeFor some people like that, some
don't.
Sari Greene (24:28):
I love it.
I love singing with people.
You should come to Bat.
Marc Bernstein (24:31):
Pop.
Jams love singing peopleexactly in the park, we sing and
play guitars and and I, a lotof people look down on it
because you know we havedifferent levels of playing
there and some people are like,wow, this isn't really jam
sessions, these are, we're justreading chords and singing songs
.
But I love that.
Sari Greene (24:45):
I love doing it with people at all levels of it
I think the most beautifulinstrument is really the human
voice, right?
Marc Bernstein (24:51):
yeah, that's cool yeah, funny, you say that
too because I've always been amusician and a non-singer but
I've been taking voice lessonsfor the last few years because I
realized that I can sing if Ichoose to, and um, and you know
something, it's and there's andthere's a.
Some people come by it realnaturally and uh, you know,
first band I was ever in, a guyhad never read a note of music
(25:13):
in his life, but he just had avoice and he had basically
perfect pitch.
We could tune our guitars.
We'd say sing the first note ofthis song and we could tune our
guitars to him.
Jason Sfire (25:23):
I only say yeah, because that's how my daughter
is.
She actually leads worship atmultiple churches back in
Illinois.
Oh cool, yeah.
So she's never read a note ofmusic in her life, but she just
picked up singing.
Marc Bernstein (25:34):
She got after it .
You ever sing with Tom.
You're upstairs neighbor.
Sari Greene (25:37):
Yep, yep, but you know, I think it's even more
than that, I think when peoplesing, particularly people who
aren't professional singers,there's a vulnerability, and
when you expose thatvulnerability to each other, you
just build something reallyvery special.
Jason Sfire (25:49):
There's something powerful when people come
together around something.
It's almost like a rally,absolutely.
You know, uh, just gatheraround to sing, or praise or
whatever they're doing.
Marc Bernstein (26:02):
It's just, it's cool.
There's power in that.
I would agree with you.
Question about it um, we so wedon't talk about religion a lot,
but I know you're.
You're a church guy, Jason yeah,for sure and you'd mentioned no
session alone, which is asynagogue song.
I I was very active with musicin the synagogue, playing guitar
and doing all that, and reallyI realized that's such an
important part of myspirituality and that sort of
changed and I don't have thesame connection there anymore.
(26:23):
So I'm actually considering andI'm affiliating with a black
synagogue in Philadelphia thathas all the tunes but do it in a
very kind of spiritual settingand I've actually sat in with
them and with the band there andsang and it's really uplifting.
(26:44):
So it's so, it's a veryinteresting experience.
Either of you have any closingcomments or thoughts?
Sari Greene (26:51):
we have about half a minute left well, this is a
great conversation and I can'twait to continue and hear your
story no, I'm excited.
Jason Sfire (26:58):
I I'm actually really intrigued to actually
learn a little bit more aboutall the stuff sari was talking
about, because it's so kind ofover my head from what I do.
But I know that it's it'scutting edge and it's forefront
of what we need to do,especially when we get to what
my three-year vision is.
I think it's going to beimportant for me to kind of
understand that.
So it was enlightening for meto hear that kind of firsthand.
Marc Bernstein (27:16):
You should do something at the hatchery.
They have these mix and mingles.
You should talk there.
Yeah, and people like us couldattend and hear that.
Jason Sfire (27:23):
It would be a great idea.
Yeah, us cybersecurity laymencan come listen.
Marc Bernstein (27:28):
The hatchery, by the way, is the workspace, the
co-workspace at Babcock Ranch,which people come from all over
outside the community actuallyto come work there.
It's pretty interesting.
Well, listen, it's great tohave you both here today and
great to have all of youlistening to us today, and we
always seem to have interestingconversations one way or the
(27:49):
other on Founders Forum.
So thanks for listening andwe'll see you again next week on
Founders Forum and have a greatday.
Announcer (27:57):
We hope you enjoyed your time with Founders Forum
and that you found value to takewith you throughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum on WXKB 1039 HD2.
Sponsored by Marc J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
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