July 30, 2025 • 27 mins
What do sports, the military, and high-tech entrepreneurship have in common? For Michael Eckstein, they’ve all been part of the same playbook.
Michael Eckstein, founder of Vector Sports Science and former CEO of multiple tech ventures, shares his powerful journey of discipline, reinvention, and innovation. From military school to motion-capture technology used by Major League Baseball teams, Michael’s story is packed with resilience, insights, and purpose-driven pivots. He discusses how sports shaped his leadership, how personal tragedy redirected his entrepreneurial focus, and how he’s making pro-level sports analytics accessible to youth leagues everywhere.
Key Takeaways:
- Sports as Strategy: How early lessons in athletics and military school built the foundation for leadership and structure in business.
- KinaTrax Origins: Michael's creation of a markerless motion-capture system revolutionized pitcher analysis in Major League Baseball.
- Tech Meets the Mound: From the Phillies to the Mets to the Cubs—how sports teams adopted new tech to improve performance.
- Turning Tragedy into Innovation: A devastating personal loss led Michael to redefine his purpose and explore new ways to impact the world of sports.
- Next-Gen Tech: Why advancements in AI and mobile devices are making elite-level sports analytics available to everyone—from high school athletes to casual golfers.
- Legacy and Mentorship: Why Michael is now focused on passing the torch—mentoring the next generation of innovators in sports science.
About Michael G. Eckstein:
For over 40 years, Michael Eckstein has held leadership roles in IT strategic planning and technology business development for companies ranging from startups to Fortune 500 firms. His past positions include CEO of the technology subsidiary of PA Blue Shield and Senior US Software Executive for the State of Israel, among others. In 2013, he founded KinaTrax, a markerless motion capture technology platform designed to capture and analyze MLB pitchers during in-game performance, which is now used in 33 MLB stadiums.
Connect:
LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/michael-eckstein-6b7335a/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The following programming is sponsored by Mark
J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
Entrepreneur, founder, authorand financial advisor, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingbusiness owners turn their
visions into reality.
Through his innovative work andthe Forward Focus Forums, Marc
connects entrepreneurs toresources that fuel their
(00:21):
success.
His forums Marc connectsentrepreneurs to resources that
fuel their success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
share their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind their success.
Join Marc and his guests for amix of inspiration, valuable
insights and a little fun.
Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:41):
Good morning America.
How are you?
I'm laughing because we'redoing video today and I'm
getting used to technology.
I was running around the studiotrying to get everything done
at the last second, but with nofurther ado, I'm going to do
(01:02):
what I don't usually do andintroduce our guest first today,
because it will also introducethe topic of the day.
So Michael Eckstein is founderand CEO of Vector Sports Science
and the Topaz Group and forover 40 plus years he's had
leadership roles in IT strategicplanning and technology.
Business that's a big theme onour show, especially IT and
(01:23):
technology has been big on thisshow Business development for
businesses from startups toFortune 500 companies.
He's had past positions thatincluded CEO of the technology
subsidiary of PA Blue Shieldit's a big job the senior US
software executive for the stateof Israel, and many more.
In 2013, he founded Kina Trax.
(01:46):
Did I say that right?
Michael Eckstein (01:47):
KinaTrax.
Marc Bernstein (01:47):
KinaTrax, a markerless motion capture
technology platform to captureand analyze Major League
Baseball pitchers during in-gameperformance, and it's now in
use in 33 Major League Baseballstadiums.
So we're going to get to talkabout that a little bit.
So good morning, Michael.
Michael Eckstein (02:06):
Good morning, Marc.
Thank you for having me.
Marc Bernstein (02:08):
My pleasure and the reason that I wanted to
introduce Michael first is thatthe topic of the day is going to
be sports and how it can impactpeople in their careers and
leadership, which seems kind ofself-evident, but we happened to
be having this conversation inmy office over the last day or
two and it was perfect timingthat Michael's here today.
(02:31):
So, Michael, your thoughts onthat?
How did it influence you andhow can it influence young
people sports in terms of beinga leader in business down the
road?
Michael Eckstein (02:41):
Well, Marc, clearly, sports has the ability
to basically focus your mind,focus your energy to, in fact, a
goal.
There are different types ofsports, of course.
There are team sportsbasketball, baseball, football,
hockey, rugby, whatever andthere are also individual sports
(03:04):
.
There are tennis, golf and,clearly, when you are involved
in sports, when you are trainingin sports, when you are looking
to improve your skills insports, it takes focus, and
every athlete will tell you thatfocus and understanding what
(03:25):
the objective is to get betteris key.
That can be translated theninto business understanding how
to succeed through goals andobjectives in the business world
.
Marc Bernstein (03:39):
That's wonderful .
I want to bring anotherdimension into this.
Tell me specifically.
First, how did that impact you?
How did you see that affectingyour future business career?
Michael Eckstein (03:50):
Well, I have my degrees.
I have my undergraduate degreefrom Drexel as well as my MBA,
and I first started in thecorporate world and understood
very quickly that there arechains of command, there are
rules, there are guidelines,there are different types of
(04:12):
expectations when you are on thejob.
The question is how did I breakaway?
Well, there was a time in mycareer where I understood and I
looked at differentopportunities.
And again, going back to thehealth care insurance drug
discovery area, when I was atPennsylvania Blue Shield, I saw
(04:34):
that there were differentopportunities.
I thought there were areas thatwere not being addressed and at
that point in time I broke awayand I started my own consulting
company.
So, to your point, sportsenabled me to have the
discipline, to have the focus,to understand what was needed as
(04:56):
I started up my own efforts.
Marc Bernstein (04:59):
Excellent.
So another thing that I happento know before we really dig
into your story that influencedyou also was the fact that you
went to military school and thenserved in the military.
Michael Eckstein (05:12):
That's correct .
Because of a family situation,my mom passed away at a very
early age and I was enrolled inBordentown Military Institute no
longer in existence, but I wasthere for grades 8 through 12, a
very impactful time ineverybody's life and after those
(05:37):
five years, spent four years inthe Air Force.
So for four years, youunderstand the responsibilities,
the goals, objectives, thechains of command, what needs to
happen, plan your work, workyour plan.
Being in the Air Force, youunderstand that not always
(05:58):
things go well, so you actuallyhave to be adaptive.
There are weather issues, thereare equipment issues.
So, looking at the Air Force,military school, my military
experiences together with sports, I am incredibly fortunate
(06:21):
enough to look at things in avery, very analytical way, in a
very organized way.
Put together logic as to atthings in a very, very
analytical way, in a veryorganized way.
Put together logic as to howthings need to proceed.
And, of course, in business,how do you get product to the
marketplace, what is yourpricing model, how you take
market share, and those are thethings in my background that
(06:43):
helped me in my entrepreneuriallife.
Marc Bernstein (06:46):
So planning an organization.
But I detect something else aswell.
You mentioned chain of command.
So out of the military, Ibelieve you went to big
corporation jobs for a long timebefore you became an
entrepreneur.
Michael Eckstein (06:59):
That's correct .
My first job was with a companycalled Oxerain, which was a
joint venture between AtlanticRidgefield and Halcon
International.
It was up in Princeton, newJersey, and commuted from
Philadelphia daily, fromPrinceton to Philly to Princeton
(07:21):
and back, from Philly toPrinceton and back and, yeah,
from there all the way throughand including 1996, 1998, so for
a period of four years Iactually had this large
(07:41):
corporation environment that Iwas working in, that I was
progressing in, that I was beinga part of and learning how the
decision-making process takesplace, depending upon the
corporation sometimes good,sometimes not so good, but, yes,
had the experience in the largecorporate world.
That gave me a lot of insightwhen I started my own companies.
Marc Bernstein (08:04):
So it looks like a very logical progression here
.
Sports to military Militaryhelped prepare you for the
corporate world, and thecorporate world helped prepare
you for entrepreneurialism.
Michael Eckstein (08:16):
You know, Marc , I never thought of it that way
, but wow, very insightful.
Marc Bernstein (08:22):
That's one of the cool things of doing the
show and telling your story tosomebody else.
I know I learn things when Ihave to tell my own story.
So let's talk about that alittle bit, about your career
path, anything you want to sayup until when you got into
Vector Sports Science, and thenwe'll talk a little bit about
Topaz Group as well.
Michael Eckstein (08:42):
Sure, absolutely so.
It was interesting because whenI left Blue Cross, blue Shield
and started my own company, Iknew and understood different
types of requirements and needsthat life science and
pharmaceutical companies hadspecifically in the area of
(09:04):
clinical trials and went intothe area of very specifically
identifying clinical trials atour recruitment sites and
working with those clinicaltrials sites and the
pharmaceutical companies havingto do with the legal documents
(09:27):
when you recruited differenttypes of subjects for clinical
trials.
My client base included Merck,pfizer, lilly, bristol-myers,
squibb, and I was incrediblyfortunate to have a very good
portfolio of clients.
Something that has stuck withme, Marc, for a long, long time,
(09:51):
is that in the 1980s, 1970s,there was a coach for the Dallas
Cowboys, tom Landry.
Sure, and not a lot of peopleknew this, but Tom was in fact a
ordained preacher, he was aminister.
I didn't know that and I waslistening to him give a
(10:12):
presentation during apharmaceutical or some kind of a
life science convention and hehas said something that has
stuck with me for almost 40years and what he said was and
what he said was life is not anundefeated season.
And that is very insightfulbecause all of us everybody
(10:43):
listening to this program knowsthat there are ups and downs in
life.
So here I was, into the early2000s I had a wonderful and very
productive and very profitableconsulting practice in the area
of clinical trials and suddenlywe had a very tragic and
catastrophic event in our family.
(11:05):
That was a medical event and itwas very, very tragic.
I won't go into the details but, being who I am, I was
devastated, given the fact thatI was in this industry medical,
healthcare, pharmaceutical and Icould not help correct, fix the
(11:28):
problem, which unfortunatelycame out to be a tragic end.
And what happened is that andI'll be the first one to admit
this I kind of meandered andwallowed and really couldn't
find my bearings for at least ayear and a half two years, my
(11:54):
bearings for at least a year anda half two years.
Emotionally, I was very, very,you know, confused.
I don't want to give theimpression here that I was, you
know, off the grid or whatever.
I just had a lot of baggagegoing on with me at that point
in time, looking for a new way,whatever, through a sequence of
events and life is wonderful andthe universe knows how to do
(12:15):
things.
I was at lunch and my seatmatenext to me at a presentation was
a front office executive of thePhiladelphia Phillies and we
got to talking amazing,individual, close friend to this
day, and he said you knowsomething, what we'd like to do,
(12:37):
Michael?
You have a technologybackground and, Michael, what we
would like to do is we wouldlike to bring the social media
platforms of Instagram, facebookand Twitter all together and
when people come to CitizensBank Park for a game, we would
like that to be displayed on theJumbotron or on an image or a
(13:00):
platform.
So I worked with the Phillieson that and it was very
enjoyable.
Being a hometown boy, love thePhillies, they're my team, okay.
Marc Bernstein (13:12):
But what happened?
Go Phillies, love the Phillies.
Michael Eckstein (13:13):
They're my team.
Go Phillies, go Phillies.
Marc Bernstein (13:15):
But this was about social media posting
nothing to do with statistics.
Absolutely nothing.
Right got it.
Absolutely nothing.
Michael Eckstein (13:21):
Got it.
Okay.
What happened?
If you look at 2012, we have atwo-time All-Star pitcher, roy
Halladay, who went on to becomea Hall of Fame inductee Doc Doc
Halladay and he was basicallyhaving aaday start the season
(13:55):
with a 4-6 or a 4-8 record, withan ERA over 8?
I remember that well.
The vibe was he was havinglights-out bullpen sessions, but
when he got on the mound,something happened and we don't
know what it was.
The manager at the time wasRuben Amaro, the pitching coach
(14:18):
was Rick Duby Excellent baseballexecutives but what really was
needed at that point in time wasa way to see when he was
pitching in game.
How do you look at what'scalled the kinetic chain?
His arm slot, his hip rotation,his knee lift, his stride
(14:38):
length, his trunk tilt.
Took me about a year to devisethe Kinetrack system and to
create a technology platformthat in a baseball stadium, you
now have six or eight differentcameras around the stadium that
(15:04):
are all focused on the pitcher'smount.
Why do you need six or eightcameras?
Because you have somethingcalled occlusion.
If you don't have a camera onthe first base side, you're not
going to see what's happeningwith the left-hander.
You're trying to see the wholebody in action.
Exactly correct, exactlycorrect.
(15:24):
So I went to spring trainingand I saw a number of different
teams and I needed one team toin fact say come into our
stadium, we'll be theindividuals to help you do a
proof of concept.
(15:44):
And that team was the New YorkMets and great individual there
that helped us from baseballoperations, adam Fisher, and we
went into the New York Metsstadium on June, the 12th 2015.
Marc Bernstein (16:05):
And that's when it began.
Michael Eckstein (16:07):
That's when it began.
Marc Bernstein (16:08):
Excellent, excellent time to take a quick
commercial break and we'll beback in one minute with Founders
Forum.
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Marc Bernstein (16:58):
We're back on Founders Forum and we're with
our guest, Michael Eckstein, andMichael just talked about kind
of an amazing story as to how hegot involved on a consulting
level, kind of looking at thedynamics of pitchers in Major
League Baseball.
So you started your job withthe New York Mets.
Michael Eckstein (17:20):
Yep, so here we are in Citi Field.
Yep, so here we are in CitiField.
(17:46):
And over the past year Iconnected with this individual
who was helping write the codeand we had a proof of concept.
Marc Bernstein (17:50):
Get there eight o'clock in the morning and we
start putting cameras andtripods and cabling and servers
all over Citi Field.
Baseball stadiums are a huge,huge structure.
I should have had you set upour video this morning.
Michael Eckstein (17:55):
You're much better at that.
So we are running all over,okay, and got there at 8 o'clock
in the morning, 3 o'clock inthe afternoon.
We are finally ready to look atthe synchronized videos of the
pitcher, see what happens.
The pitching coach said this iswhat I want to do and at the
end of the day we weresuccessful.
So, being very, very ecstatic,okay.
(18:19):
Going to the different teams, Isaid I need the first team,
number one team, to in fact bemy first adopter.
And I said to them we'll writein the contract that A, I will
sell this technology to no otherteam in your division for three
(18:40):
years.
Number two I will give you someincredible first adopter
pricing.
Three, I will actually ask youto allow different teams to take
a tour of your stadium and if Imake a sale, I'll give you a
percentage of that sale.
Pretty good deal, yeah.
(19:02):
So I'm talking to the teams andthe teams that raised their
hand.
The first team was the TampaBay Rays.
At that point in time, joeMadden was the coach and Andrew
Friedman was from the from theRays, who is now, you know, the
brain running, the brain trustfor the Dodgers, and he said
(19:23):
yeah, we'll basically try it.
So the Tampa Bay Rays was thefirst installation, followed
quickly by the Dodgers.
Marc Bernstein (19:32):
Hang on a second .
So Tampa Bay Rays, this waswhat year 2015.
And when did Joe Maddon win theWorld Series with?
Michael Eckstein (19:40):
them.
I'm getting to that, sir.
Okay, all right.
So what happened was Tampa BayRays 2015, followed quickly by
contracts with the LA Dodgersand the Chicago Cubs, and
lightning struck in 2016.
Joe Maddon is now the managerand the coach of the Cubs, and
(20:04):
the Cubs win the World Series.
Okay, so clearly this isincredibly validated.
Lots of good things happening,lots of energy, lots of vibes.
Marc Bernstein (20:16):
By the way, I imagine Joe Maddon had something
to do with bringing you on tothe Cubs.
Michael Eckstein (20:19):
I would think.
I would think yes, absolutely.
And at that point in time, theoepstein, uh, who came over from
the red socks right, a veryinnovative um owner of the cubs.
So again, um, it was theperfect confluence of a lot of
very positive things happeningum he's still in baseball?
Marc Bernstein (20:40):
yeah, he is still.
Yeah, absolutely not general,not a president, no, I.
Michael Eckstein (20:45):
I don't know exactly what's going on.
Marc Bernstein (20:49):
He had a remarkable, pretty quick career.
Michael Eckstein (20:52):
He had a remarkable career, theo, very
innovative.
You know, the Red Sox broke thecurse.
He came over to the Cubs.
The Cubs broke the curse.
Marc Bernstein (21:03):
You can't do much better than that in
baseball.
Exactly Pretty amazing.
Michael Eckstein (21:06):
So what happened was 2016, 2017, turned
out there were a lot of thingshappening within technology and
it was a time, at that point intime, that started to look at
other applications for thetechnology.
Yes, that started to look atother applications for the
technology.
(21:26):
Yes, I get a call from CBSSports and the next thing I knew
we are doing this for theMasters.
I get a call from Microsoftbecause, at this point in time,
the cloud service we're using isAWS, amazon.
(21:46):
Microsoft said bring thecameras, bring the analytics,
come down to Indian Wells andwe're going to have a demo reel
with Cocoa Gov.
So we have a demo reel withCocoa Gov.
During this time, I am no longerpart of Kinetrax.
(22:07):
I am no longer doing thesesorts of things.
Did you sell Kinetrax?
Yeah, for that company that Istarted, okay, but instead there
are an incredible amount of newcompanies that are coming onto
the stage great engineers, greatsoftware developers and my
primary skill there is the areaof, again, business development,
(22:27):
marketing, strategic planning.
So a huge thing happened that wecan talk about in 2022.
What happened in 2022 is thatthere was a change in the
technology, and the change inthe technology Marc is that
prior, you had to spend $175,000, $180,000 for all of these
(22:54):
cameras, for the servers, forthe cabling, for the chipsets.
What happened was the AIalgorithms that you do the
calculations with started to getbaked into the silicon chips,
and what this means now is youdon't need $175,000 to get into
(23:19):
and understand sportsperformance.
You can now do this with aniPad because you now have this
technology that is calledinverse kinetics inverse
kinematics that you have theability to take a 2D image and
now convert it to 3D XYZcoordinates.
(23:40):
I know that sounds heavy andtechie, but what that means is,
with, in fact, an iPhone, with,in fact, an iPad, you now have
the ability to do with a littleleague, a high school, a college
.
You have the ability to do thisand have the same basic
foundation of sports analyticsand motion capture that you see
(24:04):
in major league baseballstadiums.
Marc Bernstein (24:06):
By the way, you and I might find ourselves on
the golf course soon.
We met through a mutual golffriend right?
Maybe we can try this out.
Absolutely.
Michael Eckstein (24:14):
The answer is absolutely yes.
Marc Bernstein (24:16):
Pretty cool, okay cool, so keep going.
Michael Eckstein (24:20):
That is where the marketplace is today.
You know, I look back and somany of the things.
Marc Bernstein (24:27):
So is that Topaz Group?
Is that?
Michael Eckstein (24:29):
Yeah, and that actually does business under
Vector Sports Science.
Nobody could really relate tothe Topaz Group being part of
the sports industry.
So I have a DBA which is calledVector Sports Science and
working with different leaguesand different teams and
(24:49):
different athletes and bringingthe technology together, it's a
very exciting time right now.
Marc Bernstein (24:57):
So we don't have a lot of time.
We have about three minutesleft, but we and time goes fast
on this, sure, it always does soa question for you.
I mean, you're not a young manlike I'm not a young man, no, no
, right, but you still have alot in front of you.
It seems to me there's still alot you want to do.
Michael Eckstein (25:14):
Well, you know I'll be realistic.
I'm in the fourth quarter.
Marc Bernstein (25:17):
Okay, well, that's fair, Okay, challenge.
Michael Eckstein (25:21):
Right now, and in addition to doing the work I
do and working with these teamsand technology companies, I
have to start thinking about asuccession plan, and what I am
doing is I am starting to workwith and interview and
collaborate with differentcompanies, different
(25:42):
organizations where I canconsult, teach, advise and
mentor and over the next I don'tknow year or two years, if you
say to me Michael, you know whatdoes the future look like.
That's an important part ofwhat I'm doing, Mark to, in fact
, work with individuals,identify individuals that I can
(26:06):
mentor and can continue the workthat I am doing.
Marc Bernstein (26:11):
So really I was going to ask you about your
future vision.
It's really to figure out howto continue your work, but to
get there you're mentoring,advising, consulting.
Michael Eckstein (26:20):
That's exactly correct and I find that
incredibly fulfilling.
I mean, people say to meMichael, you don't have to work.
I mean you've been blessed,you've been very, very, you know
, well compensated.
To which I answer there areonly so many fish you can catch
and only so many golf balls youcan hit.
(26:41):
Right, exactly.
Marc Bernstein (26:43):
My sentiments exactly.
I'm with you.
Michael Eckstein (26:46):
So nothing gives me more satisfaction than
waking up in the morning andhave Zoom calls conversations
here in the United States,overseas, with young, energetic,
incredibly bright people thatare able and willing and have
the passion for sports analyticsthat I have.
Marc Bernstein (27:06):
So we do have less than a minute.
I have one last question foryou what's the most important
piece of advice you have forentrepreneurs that are launching
new companies, of which we havemany on the show?
Michael Eckstein (27:17):
Yep, very simple.
Churchill said it Don't quit.
Okay, there will be a number ofpeople that are naysayers, you
will have people yelling fromthe cheap seats, you will have
individuals giving you theiropinion.
But get your facts right.
Put together an excellent planand put together a path forward
(27:39):
that, in fact, can validate yourvision and give you the
satisfaction that you need.
Marc Bernstein (27:45):
Well said, Great story, Michael.
Announcer (27:47):
Thank you all for listening today to Founders
Forum and we'll see you nextweek, enjoyed your time with
Founders Forum and that youfound value to take with you
throughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum.
The following programming is sponsored by Mark
J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
Entrepreneur, founder, authorand financial advisor, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingbusiness owners turn their
visions into reality.
Through his innovative work andthe Forward Focus Forums, Marc
connects entrepreneurs toresources that fuel their
(00:21):
success.
His forums Marc connectsentrepreneurs to resources that
fuel their success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
share their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind their success.
Join Marc and his guests for amix of inspiration, valuable
insights and a little fun.
Now let's dive in.
Marc Bernstein (00:41):
Good morning America.
How are you?
I'm laughing because we'redoing video today and I'm
getting used to technology.
I was running around the studiotrying to get everything done
at the last second, but with nofurther ado, I'm going to do
(01:02):
what I don't usually do andintroduce our guest first today,
because it will also introducethe topic of the day.
So Michael Eckstein is founderand CEO of Vector Sports Science
and the Topaz Group and forover 40 plus years he's had
leadership roles in IT strategicplanning and technology.
Business that's a big theme onour show, especially IT and
(01:23):
technology has been big on thisshow Business development for
businesses from startups toFortune 500 companies.
He's had past positions thatincluded CEO of the technology
subsidiary of PA Blue Shieldit's a big job the senior US
software executive for the stateof Israel, and many more.
In 2013, he founded Kina Trax.
(01:46):
Did I say that right?
Michael Eckstein (01:47):
KinaTrax.
Marc Bernstein (01:47):
KinaTrax, a markerless motion capture
technology platform to captureand analyze Major League
Baseball pitchers during in-gameperformance, and it's now in
use in 33 Major League Baseballstadiums.
So we're going to get to talkabout that a little bit.
So good morning, Michael.
Michael Eckstein (02:06):
Good morning, Marc.
Thank you for having me.
Marc Bernstein (02:08):
My pleasure and the reason that I wanted to
introduce Michael first is thatthe topic of the day is going to
be sports and how it can impactpeople in their careers and
leadership, which seems kind ofself-evident, but we happened to
be having this conversation inmy office over the last day or
two and it was perfect timingthat Michael's here today.
(02:31):
So, Michael, your thoughts onthat?
How did it influence you andhow can it influence young
people sports in terms of beinga leader in business down the
road?
Michael Eckstein (02:41):
Well, Marc, clearly, sports has the ability
to basically focus your mind,focus your energy to, in fact, a
goal.
There are different types ofsports, of course.
There are team sportsbasketball, baseball, football,
hockey, rugby, whatever andthere are also individual sports
(03:04):
.
There are tennis, golf and,clearly, when you are involved
in sports, when you are trainingin sports, when you are looking
to improve your skills insports, it takes focus, and
every athlete will tell you thatfocus and understanding what
(03:25):
the objective is to get betteris key.
That can be translated theninto business understanding how
to succeed through goals andobjectives in the business world
.
Marc Bernstein (03:39):
That's wonderful .
I want to bring anotherdimension into this.
Tell me specifically.
First, how did that impact you?
How did you see that affectingyour future business career?
Michael Eckstein (03:50):
Well, I have my degrees.
I have my undergraduate degreefrom Drexel as well as my MBA,
and I first started in thecorporate world and understood
very quickly that there arechains of command, there are
rules, there are guidelines,there are different types of
(04:12):
expectations when you are on thejob.
The question is how did I breakaway?
Well, there was a time in mycareer where I understood and I
looked at differentopportunities.
And again, going back to thehealth care insurance drug
discovery area, when I was atPennsylvania Blue Shield, I saw
(04:34):
that there were differentopportunities.
I thought there were areas thatwere not being addressed and at
that point in time I broke awayand I started my own consulting
company.
So, to your point, sportsenabled me to have the
discipline, to have the focus,to understand what was needed as
(04:56):
I started up my own efforts.
Marc Bernstein (04:59):
Excellent.
So another thing that I happento know before we really dig
into your story that influencedyou also was the fact that you
went to military school and thenserved in the military.
Michael Eckstein (05:12):
That's correct .
Because of a family situation,my mom passed away at a very
early age and I was enrolled inBordentown Military Institute no
longer in existence, but I wasthere for grades 8 through 12, a
very impactful time ineverybody's life and after those
(05:37):
five years, spent four years inthe Air Force.
So for four years, youunderstand the responsibilities,
the goals, objectives, thechains of command, what needs to
happen, plan your work, workyour plan.
Being in the Air Force, youunderstand that not always
(05:58):
things go well, so you actuallyhave to be adaptive.
There are weather issues, thereare equipment issues.
So, looking at the Air Force,military school, my military
experiences together with sports, I am incredibly fortunate
(06:21):
enough to look at things in avery, very analytical way, in a
very organized way.
Put together logic as to atthings in a very, very
analytical way, in a veryorganized way.
Put together logic as to howthings need to proceed.
And, of course, in business,how do you get product to the
marketplace, what is yourpricing model, how you take
market share, and those are thethings in my background that
(06:43):
helped me in my entrepreneuriallife.
Marc Bernstein (06:46):
So planning an organization.
But I detect something else aswell.
You mentioned chain of command.
So out of the military, Ibelieve you went to big
corporation jobs for a long timebefore you became an
entrepreneur.
Michael Eckstein (06:59):
That's correct .
My first job was with a companycalled Oxerain, which was a
joint venture between AtlanticRidgefield and Halcon
International.
It was up in Princeton, newJersey, and commuted from
Philadelphia daily, fromPrinceton to Philly to Princeton
(07:21):
and back, from Philly toPrinceton and back and, yeah,
from there all the way throughand including 1996, 1998, so for
a period of four years Iactually had this large
(07:41):
corporation environment that Iwas working in, that I was
progressing in, that I was beinga part of and learning how the
decision-making process takesplace, depending upon the
corporation sometimes good,sometimes not so good, but, yes,
had the experience in the largecorporate world.
That gave me a lot of insightwhen I started my own companies.
Marc Bernstein (08:04):
So it looks like a very logical progression here
.
Sports to military Militaryhelped prepare you for the
corporate world, and thecorporate world helped prepare
you for entrepreneurialism.
Michael Eckstein (08:16):
You know, Marc , I never thought of it that way
, but wow, very insightful.
Marc Bernstein (08:22):
That's one of the cool things of doing the
show and telling your story tosomebody else.
I know I learn things when Ihave to tell my own story.
So let's talk about that alittle bit, about your career
path, anything you want to sayup until when you got into
Vector Sports Science, and thenwe'll talk a little bit about
Topaz Group as well.
Michael Eckstein (08:42):
Sure, absolutely so.
It was interesting because whenI left Blue Cross, blue Shield
and started my own company, Iknew and understood different
types of requirements and needsthat life science and
pharmaceutical companies hadspecifically in the area of
(09:04):
clinical trials and went intothe area of very specifically
identifying clinical trials atour recruitment sites and
working with those clinicaltrials sites and the
pharmaceutical companies havingto do with the legal documents
(09:27):
when you recruited differenttypes of subjects for clinical
trials.
My client base included Merck,pfizer, lilly, bristol-myers,
squibb, and I was incrediblyfortunate to have a very good
portfolio of clients.
Something that has stuck withme, Marc, for a long, long time,
(09:51):
is that in the 1980s, 1970s,there was a coach for the Dallas
Cowboys, tom Landry.
Sure, and not a lot of peopleknew this, but Tom was in fact a
ordained preacher, he was aminister.
I didn't know that and I waslistening to him give a
(10:12):
presentation during apharmaceutical or some kind of a
life science convention and hehas said something that has
stuck with me for almost 40years and what he said was and
what he said was life is not anundefeated season.
And that is very insightfulbecause all of us everybody
(10:43):
listening to this program knowsthat there are ups and downs in
life.
So here I was, into the early2000s I had a wonderful and very
productive and very profitableconsulting practice in the area
of clinical trials and suddenlywe had a very tragic and
catastrophic event in our family.
(11:05):
That was a medical event and itwas very, very tragic.
I won't go into the details but, being who I am, I was
devastated, given the fact thatI was in this industry medical,
healthcare, pharmaceutical and Icould not help correct, fix the
(11:28):
problem, which unfortunatelycame out to be a tragic end.
And what happened is that andI'll be the first one to admit
this I kind of meandered andwallowed and really couldn't
find my bearings for at least ayear and a half two years, my
(11:54):
bearings for at least a year anda half two years.
Emotionally, I was very, very,you know, confused.
I don't want to give theimpression here that I was, you
know, off the grid or whatever.
I just had a lot of baggagegoing on with me at that point
in time, looking for a new way,whatever, through a sequence of
events and life is wonderful andthe universe knows how to do
(12:15):
things.
I was at lunch and my seatmatenext to me at a presentation was
a front office executive of thePhiladelphia Phillies and we
got to talking amazing,individual, close friend to this
day, and he said you knowsomething, what we'd like to do,
(12:37):
Michael?
You have a technologybackground and, Michael, what we
would like to do is we wouldlike to bring the social media
platforms of Instagram, facebookand Twitter all together and
when people come to CitizensBank Park for a game, we would
like that to be displayed on theJumbotron or on an image or a
(13:00):
platform.
So I worked with the Phillieson that and it was very
enjoyable.
Being a hometown boy, love thePhillies, they're my team, okay.
Marc Bernstein (13:12):
But what happened?
Go Phillies, love the Phillies.
Michael Eckstein (13:13):
They're my team.
Go Phillies, go Phillies.
Marc Bernstein (13:15):
But this was about social media posting
nothing to do with statistics.
Absolutely nothing.
Right got it.
Absolutely nothing.
Michael Eckstein (13:21):
Got it.
Okay.
What happened?
If you look at 2012, we have atwo-time All-Star pitcher, roy
Halladay, who went on to becomea Hall of Fame inductee Doc Doc
Halladay and he was basicallyhaving aaday start the season
(13:55):
with a 4-6 or a 4-8 record, withan ERA over 8?
I remember that well.
The vibe was he was havinglights-out bullpen sessions, but
when he got on the mound,something happened and we don't
know what it was.
The manager at the time wasRuben Amaro, the pitching coach
(14:18):
was Rick Duby Excellent baseballexecutives but what really was
needed at that point in time wasa way to see when he was
pitching in game.
How do you look at what'scalled the kinetic chain?
His arm slot, his hip rotation,his knee lift, his stride
(14:38):
length, his trunk tilt.
Took me about a year to devisethe Kinetrack system and to
create a technology platformthat in a baseball stadium, you
now have six or eight differentcameras around the stadium that
(15:04):
are all focused on the pitcher'smount.
Why do you need six or eightcameras?
Because you have somethingcalled occlusion.
If you don't have a camera onthe first base side, you're not
going to see what's happeningwith the left-hander.
You're trying to see the wholebody in action.
Exactly correct, exactlycorrect.
(15:24):
So I went to spring trainingand I saw a number of different
teams and I needed one team toin fact say come into our
stadium, we'll be theindividuals to help you do a
proof of concept.
(15:44):
And that team was the New YorkMets and great individual there
that helped us from baseballoperations, adam Fisher, and we
went into the New York Metsstadium on June, the 12th 2015.
Marc Bernstein (16:05):
And that's when it began.
Michael Eckstein (16:07):
That's when it began.
Marc Bernstein (16:08):
Excellent, excellent time to take a quick
commercial break and we'll beback in one minute with Founders
Forum.
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Marc Bernstein (16:58):
We're back on Founders Forum and we're with
our guest, Michael Eckstein, andMichael just talked about kind
of an amazing story as to how hegot involved on a consulting
level, kind of looking at thedynamics of pitchers in Major
League Baseball.
So you started your job withthe New York Mets.
Michael Eckstein (17:20):
Yep, so here we are in Citi Field.
Yep, so here we are in CitiField.
(17:46):
And over the past year Iconnected with this individual
who was helping write the codeand we had a proof of concept.
Marc Bernstein (17:50):
Get there eight o'clock in the morning and we
start putting cameras andtripods and cabling and servers
all over Citi Field.
Baseball stadiums are a huge,huge structure.
I should have had you set upour video this morning.
Michael Eckstein (17:55):
You're much better at that.
So we are running all over,okay, and got there at 8 o'clock
in the morning, 3 o'clock inthe afternoon.
We are finally ready to look atthe synchronized videos of the
pitcher, see what happens.
The pitching coach said this iswhat I want to do and at the
end of the day we weresuccessful.
So, being very, very ecstatic,okay.
(18:19):
Going to the different teams, Isaid I need the first team,
number one team, to in fact bemy first adopter.
And I said to them we'll writein the contract that A, I will
sell this technology to no otherteam in your division for three
(18:40):
years.
Number two I will give you someincredible first adopter
pricing.
Three, I will actually ask youto allow different teams to take
a tour of your stadium and if Imake a sale, I'll give you a
percentage of that sale.
Pretty good deal, yeah.
(19:02):
So I'm talking to the teams andthe teams that raised their
hand.
The first team was the TampaBay Rays.
At that point in time, joeMadden was the coach and Andrew
Friedman was from the from theRays, who is now, you know, the
brain running, the brain trustfor the Dodgers, and he said
(19:23):
yeah, we'll basically try it.
So the Tampa Bay Rays was thefirst installation, followed
quickly by the Dodgers.
Marc Bernstein (19:32):
Hang on a second .
So Tampa Bay Rays, this waswhat year 2015.
And when did Joe Maddon win theWorld Series with?
Michael Eckstein (19:40):
them.
I'm getting to that, sir.
Okay, all right.
So what happened was Tampa BayRays 2015, followed quickly by
contracts with the LA Dodgersand the Chicago Cubs, and
lightning struck in 2016.
Joe Maddon is now the managerand the coach of the Cubs, and
(20:04):
the Cubs win the World Series.
Okay, so clearly this isincredibly validated.
Lots of good things happening,lots of energy, lots of vibes.
Marc Bernstein (20:16):
By the way, I imagine Joe Maddon had something
to do with bringing you on tothe Cubs.
Michael Eckstein (20:19):
I would think.
I would think yes, absolutely.
And at that point in time, theoepstein, uh, who came over from
the red socks right, a veryinnovative um owner of the cubs.
So again, um, it was theperfect confluence of a lot of
very positive things happeningum he's still in baseball?
Marc Bernstein (20:40):
yeah, he is still.
Yeah, absolutely not general,not a president, no, I.
Michael Eckstein (20:45):
I don't know exactly what's going on.
Marc Bernstein (20:49):
He had a remarkable, pretty quick career.
Michael Eckstein (20:52):
He had a remarkable career, theo, very
innovative.
You know, the Red Sox broke thecurse.
He came over to the Cubs.
The Cubs broke the curse.
Marc Bernstein (21:03):
You can't do much better than that in
baseball.
Exactly Pretty amazing.
Michael Eckstein (21:06):
So what happened was 2016, 2017, turned
out there were a lot of thingshappening within technology and
it was a time, at that point intime, that started to look at
other applications for thetechnology.
Yes, that started to look atother applications for the
technology.
(21:26):
Yes, I get a call from CBSSports and the next thing I knew
we are doing this for theMasters.
I get a call from Microsoftbecause, at this point in time,
the cloud service we're using isAWS, amazon.
(21:46):
Microsoft said bring thecameras, bring the analytics,
come down to Indian Wells andwe're going to have a demo reel
with Cocoa Gov.
So we have a demo reel withCocoa Gov.
During this time, I am no longerpart of Kinetrax.
(22:07):
I am no longer doing thesesorts of things.
Did you sell Kinetrax?
Yeah, for that company that Istarted, okay, but instead there
are an incredible amount of newcompanies that are coming onto
the stage great engineers, greatsoftware developers and my
primary skill there is the areaof, again, business development,
(22:27):
marketing, strategic planning.
So a huge thing happened that wecan talk about in 2022.
What happened in 2022 is thatthere was a change in the
technology, and the change inthe technology Marc is that
prior, you had to spend $175,000, $180,000 for all of these
(22:54):
cameras, for the servers, forthe cabling, for the chipsets.
What happened was the AIalgorithms that you do the
calculations with started to getbaked into the silicon chips,
and what this means now is youdon't need $175,000 to get into
(23:19):
and understand sportsperformance.
You can now do this with aniPad because you now have this
technology that is calledinverse kinetics inverse
kinematics that you have theability to take a 2D image and
now convert it to 3D XYZcoordinates.
(23:40):
I know that sounds heavy andtechie, but what that means is,
with, in fact, an iPhone, with,in fact, an iPad, you now have
the ability to do with a littleleague, a high school, a college
.
You have the ability to do thisand have the same basic
foundation of sports analyticsand motion capture that you see
(24:04):
in major league baseballstadiums.
Marc Bernstein (24:06):
By the way, you and I might find ourselves on
the golf course soon.
We met through a mutual golffriend right?
Maybe we can try this out.
Absolutely.
Michael Eckstein (24:14):
The answer is absolutely yes.
Marc Bernstein (24:16):
Pretty cool, okay cool, so keep going.
Michael Eckstein (24:20):
That is where the marketplace is today.
You know, I look back and somany of the things.
Marc Bernstein (24:27):
So is that Topaz Group?
Is that?
Michael Eckstein (24:29):
Yeah, and that actually does business under
Vector Sports Science.
Nobody could really relate tothe Topaz Group being part of
the sports industry.
So I have a DBA which is calledVector Sports Science and
working with different leaguesand different teams and
(24:49):
different athletes and bringingthe technology together, it's a
very exciting time right now.
Marc Bernstein (24:57):
So we don't have a lot of time.
We have about three minutesleft, but we and time goes fast
on this, sure, it always does soa question for you.
I mean, you're not a young manlike I'm not a young man, no, no
, right, but you still have alot in front of you.
It seems to me there's still alot you want to do.
Michael Eckstein (25:14):
Well, you know I'll be realistic.
I'm in the fourth quarter.
Marc Bernstein (25:17):
Okay, well, that's fair, Okay, challenge.
Michael Eckstein (25:21):
Right now, and in addition to doing the work I
do and working with these teamsand technology companies, I
have to start thinking about asuccession plan, and what I am
doing is I am starting to workwith and interview and
collaborate with differentcompanies, different
(25:42):
organizations where I canconsult, teach, advise and
mentor and over the next I don'tknow year or two years, if you
say to me Michael, you know whatdoes the future look like.
That's an important part ofwhat I'm doing, Mark to, in fact
, work with individuals,identify individuals that I can
(26:06):
mentor and can continue the workthat I am doing.
Marc Bernstein (26:11):
So really I was going to ask you about your
future vision.
It's really to figure out howto continue your work, but to
get there you're mentoring,advising, consulting.
Michael Eckstein (26:20):
That's exactly correct and I find that
incredibly fulfilling.
I mean, people say to meMichael, you don't have to work.
I mean you've been blessed,you've been very, very, you know
, well compensated.
To which I answer there areonly so many fish you can catch
and only so many golf balls youcan hit.
(26:41):
Right, exactly.
Marc Bernstein (26:43):
My sentiments exactly.
I'm with you.
Michael Eckstein (26:46):
So nothing gives me more satisfaction than
waking up in the morning andhave Zoom calls conversations
here in the United States,overseas, with young, energetic,
incredibly bright people thatare able and willing and have
the passion for sports analyticsthat I have.
Marc Bernstein (27:06):
So we do have less than a minute.
I have one last question foryou what's the most important
piece of advice you have forentrepreneurs that are launching
new companies, of which we havemany on the show?
Michael Eckstein (27:17):
Yep, very simple.
Churchill said it Don't quit.
Okay, there will be a number ofpeople that are naysayers, you
will have people yelling fromthe cheap seats, you will have
individuals giving you theiropinion.
But get your facts right.
Put together an excellent planand put together a path forward
(27:39):
that, in fact, can validate yourvision and give you the
satisfaction that you need.
Marc Bernstein (27:45):
Well said, Great story, Michael.
Announcer (27:47):
Thank you all for listening today to Founders
Forum and we'll see you nextweek, enjoyed your time with
Founders Forum and that youfound value to take with you
throughout your day.
Join us again next week foranother episode of Founders
Forum.
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