July 16, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when the podcast host becomes the guest? In this special episode of Founders' Forum, the script is flipped as Ryan Sullivan, founder of Podcast Principles, interviews Marc Bernstein about his incredible journey from aspiring rock star to entrepreneurial financial advisor. Marc opens up about his early dreams of music stardom and how that passion eventually led him to law school and a career in entertainment law. But after years of navigating the entertainment industry’s challenges, Marc found a new calling — financial planning — and began reshaping the way entrepreneurs receive financial guidance.
Join us as Marc shares how he reinvented financial planning with his innovative "fiscal therapy" approach, the importance of deep, purpose-driven conversations with clients, and how he’s built a business model that truly advocates for entrepreneurs.
Key Takeaways:
- The Path to Financial Planning: Marc’s unexpected transition from law to finance and how his past experiences shaped his unique approach.
- Fiscal Therapy: What "fiscal therapy" is and how Marc uses it to help entrepreneurs plan their financial futures.
- Reinventing Financial Advisory: How Marc restructured his firm to ensure it serves as a true advocate for clients, avoiding traditional conflicts of interest.
- Building a Client-Centered Practice: Marc’s approach to cultivating lasting client relationships and focusing on business succession and legacy planning.
- Career Evolution: How seemingly unrelated experiences can come together to create a distinct and meaningful value proposition.
Tune in and join the conversation. And if you found this episode valuable, share it with someone who might need to hear it!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
The following programming is sponsored by Marc
J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
Entrepreneur, founder, authorand financial advisor, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingbusiness owners turn their
visions into reality.
Through his innovative work andthe Forward Focus Forums, Marc
(00:20):
connects entrepreneurs toresources that fuel their
success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
share their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind their success.
Join Marc and his guests for amix of inspiration, valuable
insights and a little fun.
Now let's dive in Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (00:41):
America.
How are you?
Good morning.
I'm just checking our miclevels because I can barely hear
myself in the microphone forsome reason.
So, oh, we're on the radio.
So I just have to tell you Ijust came back from Florida.
We were doing shows down there.
We had a whole different way ofdoing shows and we are.
(01:04):
We are changed our studioaround all kinds of things, so
apologize for that little blipthere.
Anyway, it's not a beautiful dayin Philadelphia today, it's a
little gray.
I came back from this blue skyweather and we've had beautiful
weather here, but today it's alittle bit gray in Philadelphia,
but it's bright in the studiobecause I've got a great guest
(01:26):
with me today, someone who'sbeen on the show before, Ryan
Sullivan, and I'll tell you alittle bit more about him in a
second.
But for our thought for the day,which we always do, I've been
thinking about a book that I'mreading, and it's by a guy named
David Brooks, and David is acommentator on TV, on news,
(01:46):
things like that kind of athought leader in a lot of
different areas, and he writesbooks on different subjects,
interesting subjects, and hewrote one recently that's on the
bestseller list, called how toKnow a Person, the Art of Seeing
Others Deeply and being DeeplySeen.
And he and it's a veryinteresting book.
I kind of think I got it in thefirst 10 pages, but I'm reading
(02:10):
just because he tells a lot ofstories and a lot of parables
that kind of illustrate hispoints.
But, Ryan, I know you're a deepthinker and when I tell you
more about Ryan it's veryinteresting because he's a young
guy with an old soul.
But you know what does thatmean to you?
When I talked to you about howto know a person, the art of
seeing others, others deeply andbeing deeply seen.
Ryan Sullivan (02:34):
How does that resonate with you?
Sure, so I think there's, youknow, the, the, what I would.
What comes to mind when I thinkabout this is small talk, right
, and kind of that transitionwhere you're like, ah, I got to
come up with we'll talk aboutthe weather or we'll talk about
the sports team, so I can try toget to this person into a real
conversation, right, right.
(02:55):
So I have like small talk andthen there's big talk.
For me, I don't mind small talk, but I really want to get to
that big talk, or whatever youmight want to call it the
opposite of small talk.
Let's talk about somethingdeeper.
I don't mind, I don't, itdoesn't matter to me what it is,
um, but that's something Ireally resonate with this,
because I love getting a littlebit deeper and learning more
about somebody and who, who theyare, not just you know what
(03:17):
they do.
Marc Bernstein (03:18):
So actually the piece I read last night talked
about you know you meet someonenew.
And I've made this mistakeyounger in my life, when I'm
working on my personal growthand things, particularly when I
was dating, I would meet womenand I'd like want to get deep,
like right away.
Well, that could scare peopleoff.
It can intimidate them Right.
So, and not just, I've done itin business situations and I've
(03:39):
learned that lesson over theyears, and I'm not a big small
talker, I don't really lovesmall talk, but you have to
because you have to find somecommonality and you have to
build the basis for arelationship before you start
getting into those things.
And that's a lesson I've learnedover time which is kind of
interesting.
So it's how you use the smalltalk.
Ryan Sullivan (03:58):
Oh, it doesn't always work.
Yeah, I know.
Marc Bernstein (04:02):
I understand.
So let me tell you about RyanSullivan.
He's been here before.
Ryan makes music and podcasts,so we have that in common.
I make music and podcasts andmoney, as does he, but I
literally make money, Sure, andwe're actually going to talk
about that a little today.
He's the founder of PodcastPrinciples, a boutique content
strategy and production companyfor B2B businesses.
(04:25):
After his own podcast and musiccareer took off in 2019, he
helped other creators andbusiness owners do the same.
Since then, he's helpedhundreds of founders,
entrepreneurs, multi-platinumartists and creators around the
world launch and grow theirshows.
His mission to help thousandsof business owners expand their
reach and revenue through thepower of creative podcasting and
(04:47):
media so welcome.
Ryan Sullivan (04:50):
Ryan, thank you, Marc, for having me and thank
you for doing this, something alittle bit untraditional for us.
Marc Bernstein (04:57):
This is going to be a little untraditional.
So when Ryan was last here, Iwas very impressed with him.
He's are you 26 yet 26.
26.
Okay, so he was 25 when he washere and we, um, we, you know,
we connected on it, on, weconnected.
I mean, we had a lot in commonand we connected and we stayed
in touch and what he's doing nowis different.
(05:19):
What you're doing now isdifferent than what you were
doing a year and a half ago.
Ryan Sullivan (05:29):
So why don't you talk about that for a minute and
then we're going to flip thescript here?
Sure, so, and I won't get rightinto that, I'll talk about what
we're doing for a second to addthe context.
But what we do now is we had acompany that helped business
owners launch podcasts.
Right Now it could be podcasts,or it could be video, or it
could be radio, or it could bejust shooting content and
recording these business ownersjust talking, right.
(05:49):
So now we have a lot more waysto do it and we've now adapted a
little bit more to thecomfortability of the person on
the other side of the mic.
Marc Bernstein (06:00):
So we so full transparency.
Ryan's here partly becausewe've decided to work together.
He's working with me on mypodcast, on this podcast where
we're going video.
We haven't done video before,so today's show is the first
video show and we're going to bedoing that in the future and
also he's working with me on umwe, we have.
(06:22):
So I'll just say this I neverreally talk about my business on
the show.
I'm a financial planner.
I've mentioned it.
I have a company, I havepartners in a company called
March, or sometimes called MarchForward, sometimes March
Advisors, depending on thecontext.
And we, you know we, that'swhat we do.
We work primarily I work almostexclusively with entrepreneurs
(06:46):
as a company.
We do a few other things, butprimarily we work with
entrepreneurs.
And I don't talk about this.
But I developed this as a wayto kind of take off on what I do
every day, which is talk toentrepreneurs about their
stories.
I really enjoy it and I reallystarted this out of love and
just to have something to poston social media without really
(07:06):
knowing what I was doing.
So I've never really posteddirectly about content, about
the business and what we do,what's different about us, and
there are a lot of things, andRyan, the old soul that he is,
has convinced me I should bedoing that.
So we're going to be talkingnot, we're not changing the
content of the show but todaywe're flipping the script and
(07:28):
he's going to interview me andthis was going to begin some of
our video and audio content thatwe're going to be putting out
there.
So so this is different for meand it's odd for me to be here
and be the interviewee.
Here and be the interviewee,but I'm ready, all right,
perfect.
Ryan Sullivan (07:44):
Well, let's get into it.
I will keep this show somewhatpredictable in terms of how you
run it.
I'm not going to be theinterviewer that Marc Bernstein
is.
That's not what I'm trying todo, but we will get into your
story, Marc.
Marc Bernstein (07:59):
You are anyway, you just do it in your way.
Ryan Sullivan (08:01):
I appreciate it.
So why don't we open it up withthe beginning right?
How did this start?
You can go any angle ordirection you want to go with
the start, but let's talk aboutit.
How did this start for you,whether that's the financial
side, or even how you gotstarted in your career?
Marc Bernstein (08:21):
Okay, so let's go back to high school.
In high school I was always agood student, got good grades,
but never really interested in atraditional career.
I was going to be a rock androll star.
That was what I was going to do.
I was, you know, I woulddaydream in classes and I would
write songs and create, and Ihad a songwriting partner and I
(08:44):
had a band and that's what I wasgoing to do.
But I also knew that in myfamily I'd be the first one
going to four-year college and Iknew it would be a letdown to
my family, but also to myself,to not have that opportunity,
because college those were thedays in college was a great
thing.
It still is, but the dynamicsof that have changed a little
(09:06):
bit.
But I so I tried to figure outwhat I was going to do.
So I became a music major withthe idea that I was going to
study music and I didn't knowwhat I was going to do after
that.
And then everyone always toldme you should be a lawyer and
because I was, I argued prettywell.
So they thought you know, thatmight be a good career for you
(09:27):
and it was always kind of in theback of my mind, but not
something that really appealedto me all that much until I
can't explain it.
But I had an English professornamed Dr Charles Robinson
Charlie Robinson and it was aromantic literature course and I
was very interested in that.
College was the first time I gotreally interested in subjects
(09:48):
other than rock and roll and Isaw usefulness in a lot of the
things I was learning andsomething about it sparked me,
about the romantic authors andalso the romantic period in
music, because I was alsostudying music history.
That really appealed to me andsomehow I don't remember the
(10:09):
connection, but somehow itoccurred to me hey, there must
be lawyers that are in the musicbusiness that represent
musicians.
Of course that's called anentertainment lawyer, but I
didn't even know that existed atthe time.
So I started doing someresearch and I found this book
called this Business of Musicand I was like that's what I'm
going to do, but I'm going to bein the business, I'll be able
to promote my own music.
(10:30):
I'll be, you know, I'll bethere.
So you know, we'll see how thatall plays out.
So that's the path I took.
So I went to law school withthe idea that I would be an
entertainment attorney.
Ryan Sullivan (10:43):
So wow, okay, so there's multiple directions.
We could go with that, butwe'll keep moving forward in
time.
Yep, did you end up pursuingwhat was your opinion of being
an attorney once you got furtherinto that?
And then I assume somehow therewas the finance, was somewhere
in that journey along the line.
(11:04):
Maybe you know somewhere inthere.
Marc Bernstein (11:06):
Well, first of all, I went to.
I chose the Ohio StateUniversity, the Ohio State
University, as a place to go tolaw school because it would be
the most affordable to me as amusic major.
I didn't think I'd get into alot of law schools, but I ended
up getting into many,surprisingly, because I think
they were looking for diversityand the fact that I was a music
major might have actually helpedme.
(11:26):
So I went there with the ideathat I would number one.
My undergraduate fraternityhelped.
I was able to live in the house, I took a resident counselor
position and I got a scholarshipand I could become an Ohio
State resident after a year.
So it became very affordableand when I went, it was the only
(11:47):
school that required aninterview.
When I went out there, I got abig welcome wagon from my
fraternity and they brought allthe co-eds and I was like, oh,
this could be fun, it doesn'thave to be drudgery to go to law
school.
So so, anyway, that was my.
That was my methodology forchoosing a law school.
Did you end up becoming alawyer?
I did, I am, I'm still a lawyer.
Ryan Sullivan (12:05):
Wow, okay, you may not know that.
Yeah Well, do you?
Interesting, okay, so why don'tI zoom in on one thing here?
Is there an overlap between lawand finance that you found,
maybe for you, or just maybe ingeneral Music?
Marc Bernstein (12:20):
law and finance Sure, I general Music law and
finance Sure, I'll finish.
I'll try to finish quickly thestory and then I'll tell you.
And we have a break coming up,so maybe we can finish the story
before the break, sure, and gofrom there.
But I quickly determined Ihated law school.
I mean, it's not designed to bea pleasurable experience but I
really I pretty quickly realizedI probably wasn't going to
(12:40):
spend the rest of my careerpracticing law.
And in fact I was with a friendof fraternity, brother, walking
to the bursar's office to checkout after the first quarter.
I was resigning from law school.
And somewhere along the line Irealized, you know, I was at a
time I was the last year of thedraft in the Vietnam War and you
(13:01):
know, if they hadn't ended thewar I could have been called up
and that was a war nobody atthat point wanted to go to.
But I did have this littleinkling of I would love to go to
boot camp but not necessarilyhave to serve in a war, you know
.
And to me I realized that lawschool was my mental boot camp
and that I had to see thisthrough.
So I went from living in thefraternity house and the parties
(13:24):
.
Going on and trying to strugglewith my studies and I was near
the bottom of my class.
I said, well, if I'm going todo this, I have to do it right.
So I started living in thelibrary most of the time instead
and I turned that around.
I finished the next twoquarters and I turned it around.
I still thought I'm probablynot going to practice law for
the rest of my life, but I gotto see this through.
(13:44):
So I did, and I think it was agreat education and I'm really
glad I did it.
And I got out of law school andI just make a long story short.
I spent a few years pursuingthe entertainment field.
I worked for a one-personlawyer in Philadelphia.
I made contacts a lot ofcontacts in New York, because I
finished law school at NYU inorder to pursue the
(14:06):
entertainment business.
I spent some time on the WestCoast, spent some time in
England and I spent a few yearstrying to really put that all
together and I gave myself threeyears and at the end of three
years I saw the underbelly ofthe business.
There was a big recession atthe time and I saw firings and I
saw a lot of people I didn'trespect in the business for lack
(14:30):
of a way of putting it and Ialso was representing artists
who were needy in many cases andI just felt like I don't know
that.
I can see this is going to takea long time to be successful
and I thought I could be, but Ifelt like I need more immediate
gratification and I wasn'tfeeling fulfilled doing this, so
(14:52):
that became my search for whatI was going to do next and with
that, I think that's a reallygood place for us to take a real
quick break.
Announcer (15:00):
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Ryan Sullivan (15:49):
I guess I should say we're back on Founders Forum
, but I'll hand the microphoneback to Ryan Sure.
So we're here with Marc, withMarc Bernstein's story condensed
life story.
I have so many questions aboutthe music industry, about music
law, so many things that maybewe'll do on a further episode or
they can get into on a podcastwhere you're the guest, but
today we're focusing on yourjourney.
You left off at hey, maybe thismusic law or entertainment law
(16:15):
thing may not be my career.
Marc Bernstein (16:19):
So I got back from a trip to England and was
somewhat, I was encouraged, butthe artist I was working with
was discouraged about ourprogress and I'd put what I felt
was my heart and soul into forthe last couple of years and I
said you know what?
I don't know if this is goingto work for me.
So I spent, actually took a fewmonths off probably the only
time I've taken a realsabbatical in my life and to
(16:42):
really figure out what I wantedto do and I was looking at a lot
of different things, differentareas of the law, but I really
what I called the straightpractice law.
That wasn't the music business,didn't appeal to me too much.
In hindsight there are a lot ofthings in the law I could have
done.
But but I got attracted to thisnew um, my, I have a brother
that was in the insuranceindustry and he said, hey,
(17:03):
there's these companiesadvertising for lawyers to be
financial planners.
So I went to one of theseinterviews.
They would not hire me because,um, I was.
They did.
They did a marketing test andit was really about who I knew
more than how good I was, andthey wanted me now, at my age
with all my connections not meat 29 years old without all
(17:27):
those connections.
But I loved what they presentedand I said this is what I want
to do and I figured it outbecause I love the gratification
of helping people with theirfutures, their financial futures
.
I had some sales experience, Ihad background in sales, I was.
It just seemed like it fit mereally well.
(17:47):
So that became my journey, beganmy journey to figure out how I
wanted to do this, and I wouldjust say that the journey
started with a company that youknow wanted me.
They had just acquired.
It was an insurance companythat acquired a brokerage
company and they wanted me towork on both sides of the house.
But they basically hired me tosell life insurance.
(18:07):
Nothing wrong with that andI've spent a lot of time in that
end of the business, but itwasn't my picture of what I
wanted to do and the other sidenever.
It was kind of a scam wherethey didn't never really
materialized.
So then I went on.
I started another company witha partner and and started doing
financial planning, but wedidn't have a really good model
(18:29):
for it and then I joined aregional firm where I helped
create the financial planningvalue proposition.
This is probably going back 20to 25 years ago and I felt like
this is really closer to what Iwant to get to do, where we do,
you know, we really go inwithout an agenda and do
financial planning, we charge afee and then we help implement
(18:53):
the plan for clients.
And I started out in my lawpractice.
Besides musicians, I had smallbusiness owners as my clients.
That was sort of my naturalmarket, and I also had lawyers,
because that was a naturalmarket, because a lot of my
friends were lawyers and somedoctors.
So I've always basically beenin the entrepreneurial
marketplace.
(19:13):
The doctors and lawyers wereprimarily the entrepreneurial
lawyers and doctors that hadtheir own practices and
businesses aside from what theydid, aside from their profession
.
So that's what I gravitatedtowards and that's what I've
been building for the last 40years, I dare to say right now.
Ryan Sullivan (19:30):
So we could go right into.
Okay, what are the challengesthat you face with this business
.
If you don't mind, I'd love totalk about what were some of the
challenges that you saw peoplefacing where you were about to
design this financial planningvalue proposition.
What problems were you solving?
Marc Bernstein (19:51):
Well, yeah, that's a great question.
I wasn't expecting that one.
But number one peopleintelligent people, lawyers,
doctors doesn't mean really theyknow anything about finance or
you know.
So I did a lot of educatingearly on still do about it,
(20:12):
started out about products andthat's one of my challenges
because it was allproduct-driven for many, many
years and I didn't want it to beproduct-driven.
I wanted it to be planning andprocess-driven deeper
(20:36):
conversations and talk aboutthings like their legacy or talk
about the future of theirbusinesses or talk about some of
the issues they're having intheir businesses that they maybe
don't think about on adifferent every day.
But when you get deep they sayyou know what I've got to worry
about.
Like, if I want to succeed thisbusiness, I have to make sure
some of these employees retain.
I retain them and we're havingsome issues and I'm not sure if
(20:58):
that's going to happen, thingslike that that would pop up and
I I got to really like it to thepoint where I've written a book
and the book is called thefiscal therapy solution, cause I
felt like that's what I do andthat's I really thrive on that,
and it didn't hurt that my wifewas a family therapist and I
(21:20):
kind of I feel like I grew up inmy marriage and therapy and I
became kind of a money therapistto a certain extent.
Ryan Sullivan (21:24):
Do you see, do you does it seem like?
Is it always that financialchallenges, so to say, are they
always?
Do you find that starting withthe person right and their
actual challenges will help fixthe financial challenges?
Yeah, um, is that where youstart?
(21:44):
You start with the person andkind of back to the theme of
almost the beginning of thisepisode.
Marc Bernstein (21:48):
Yeah, I mean I'd say that varies.
I mean, sometimes if you fixthe financial challenge, it
helps fix the person Interesting.
Sometimes the other way around,Um, but, and you know, and I'm
not there, I'm not really atherapist, I mean I'm not really
there to solve all their, youknow, inner demons and all that
kind of thing.
But, um, I have a lot ofsatisfaction from having helped
(22:12):
people find a lot of peace justthrough the talking process.
That's why I call it a form oftherapy.
It's a form of unlicensedtherapy.
I have many licenses, but notas a therapist.
Ryan Sullivan (22:21):
I love it and I'm just really glad that you
explained that, because I findthat that's one of your
differentiators.
So, before we get into wherethis company is going, talk
about, yeah, some of thoseactual challenges that you faced
over the years, and then we'regoing to get to the vision as
well and what you guys actuallydo.
Marc Bernstein (22:38):
Well, look, in most of the industry there's a
pressure to sell products, and Ifelt that at all levels all the
time.
And you know and I was okaywith it to a certain extent,
because it's a great way tolearn and it's a great way to
help people A lot of theproducts really help solve
problems.
But the journey was to switchit around and today, what we do
(23:04):
and, you know, still our valueproposition is still evolving.
But my ultimate dream is tohave a company that does
financial planning the right way, and what I mean by that is
total blank slate planning.
We have no agenda in mind ofanything to sell.
Another thing that we do todayis that most money managers and
(23:26):
there's a famous one, I won'tmention the name that's always
talking about we're fiduciaries.
We sit on your side of thetable.
We do better if you do better.
Well, that's true of anybodythat charges a fee to manage
money.
However, their goal is to lookat your portfolio and tell you
what's wrong with it, and thenthey manage the money.
Well then, it's the foxwatching the hen house who's
(23:48):
watching them.
You know they're never going totell you hey, we screwed up,
like you should move your moneysomewhere else.
So what we do is we hireindependent managers that we've
vetted and that we use a regularbasis and that we have
relationships with, and we canintervene when need be between
the client and kind of mediatebetween the client and the money
manager and do a lot of thehand-holding with the clients et
(24:13):
cetera, but then replace themanager if it's not working for
the client because theirobjectives changed or the
manager's style changed orwhatever it is, and those
managers understand that that'swhat we do and their clients
understand what we do.
So therefore, we're not uswatching us.
We're there to really lookafter the client's interest and
(24:35):
truly sit on the same side ofthe table.
So there's other aspects to it,but those are two of the big
points that make us differentand that also I'm looking to
perfect and I'm driving mypartners crazy, because these
are things that I've dreamtabout since I started this
business and we're very close,we're like on, we're on the edge
of being there and we'recontinuing to work on it.
Ryan Sullivan (24:58):
I think I think we have time for this.
You spoke about doctors,lawyers, people like that when
you were building.
You know different other.
You know financial businesses,right that when you were
building different otherfinancial businesses, right.
Who do you work with now?
Marc Bernstein (25:11):
Primarily entrepreneurs of all kinds.
Still a few of the doctors andlawyers and things like that.
We have, as an example, a lotof oral surgeons and we've been
getting referred to some newones, but these are
entrepreneurial people, but allkinds of manufacturers,
technology companies, realestate developers, you know you
name it, but all what they allhave in common is that they're
(25:32):
entrepreneurial.
Ryan Sullivan (25:33):
Yeah, yeah, and there's.
That's why that's not the sameas a financial plan for, you
know, a standard nine to fivejob, for example.
Marc Bernstein (25:41):
Right.
So another thing that we thatI'm starting to talk about a lot
is that what is the keystoneasset for an entrepreneur?
Almost always it's the businessor it's the assets, if they're.
You know, it's the real estateif they're real estate
developers.
So most people will look at youknow whatever liquid money they
have, and say, oh, you shouldbe in a 60, 40 portfolio or
whatever it is.
And we look at it and say we'rebuilding a plan around what
(26:07):
their key assets already are.
And you know, which is anotherbig differentiator we start with
the business and look outwardinstead of just building it as a
separate thing, which I see somuch is happening out there.
Ryan Sullivan (26:21):
If you, what do you have to do in this next
three to five years to make yourvision a reality?
Marc Bernstein (26:28):
Well, we have a plan.
We're working with some outsideconsultants and the plan is to
improve our client processessuch that we're really
delivering as close toperfection as we can get and
delivering on our full valueproposition.
So we're starting with that andthen we're rethinking about how
to brand it and market it,which is part of why you're here
(26:50):
.
Ryan Sullivan (26:50):
Absolutely, and I'm results, or hopefully, your
success is a result of usworking together too, and I just
want to say thank you for doingthis and thank you for doing
this untraditional interviewallowing me to take the reins,
Marc.
I really appreciate it andloved hearing your story here.
Marc Bernstein (27:06):
We have about a minute left, so I'm going to ask
you a question, oh, onlybecause, and then maybe we'll
respond.
I'll answer the same questionwhat's your favorite music,
since you're a music guy?
Ryan Sullivan (27:18):
Wow, it's so hard for me, it's so hard to pick, I
will say, my favorite band.
It's called Sublime.
It's a mix of punk rock and ska.
I have the.
I have a Sublime tattoo on myshoulder, so that's my favorite
band.
Favorite genre?
I don't think I have one.
Marc Bernstein (27:34):
Great band, great great band.
I mean, I love them.
I was just listening to them.
There's one.
They have a big song, the bighit what I got, yep, what I got.
So mine is and this is ourgenerational difference the
Beatles.
You know, everything I did andall the music I listened to came
from that.
(27:54):
So I've talked about thatbefore.
So enough of that, and that'sabout it for us today on
Founders Forum.
So thanks for being here,thanks for listening to my story
today and, Ryan, thanks forbeing a great interviewer and a
great guest, and we'll continueAnytime.
Ryan Sullivan (28:14):
Thanks for having me.
The following programming is sponsored by Marc
J Bernstein.
The views expressed do notnecessarily reflect the views of
this station, its management orBeasley Media Group.
Entrepreneur, founder, authorand financial advisor, Marc
Bernstein helps high-performingbusiness owners turn their
visions into reality.
Through his innovative work andthe Forward Focus Forums, Marc
(00:20):
connects entrepreneurs toresources that fuel their
success.
Founders Forum is a radio showand podcast where entrepreneurs
share their journeys, revealingthe lessons they've learned and
the stories behind their success.
Join Marc and his guests for amix of inspiration, valuable
insights and a little fun.
Now let's dive in Good morning.
Marc Bernstein (00:41):
America.
How are you?
Good morning.
I'm just checking our miclevels because I can barely hear
myself in the microphone forsome reason.
So, oh, we're on the radio.
So I just have to tell you Ijust came back from Florida.
We were doing shows down there.
We had a whole different way ofdoing shows and we are.
(01:04):
We are changed our studioaround all kinds of things, so
apologize for that little blipthere.
Anyway, it's not a beautiful dayin Philadelphia today, it's a
little gray.
I came back from this blue skyweather and we've had beautiful
weather here, but today it's alittle bit gray in Philadelphia,
but it's bright in the studiobecause I've got a great guest
(01:26):
with me today, someone who'sbeen on the show before, Ryan
Sullivan, and I'll tell you alittle bit more about him in a
second.
But for our thought for the day,which we always do, I've been
thinking about a book that I'mreading, and it's by a guy named
David Brooks, and David is acommentator on TV, on news,
(01:46):
things like that kind of athought leader in a lot of
different areas, and he writesbooks on different subjects,
interesting subjects, and hewrote one recently that's on the
bestseller list, called how toKnow a Person, the Art of Seeing
Others Deeply and being DeeplySeen.
And he and it's a veryinteresting book.
I kind of think I got it in thefirst 10 pages, but I'm reading
(02:10):
just because he tells a lot ofstories and a lot of parables
that kind of illustrate hispoints.
But, Ryan, I know you're a deepthinker and when I tell you
more about Ryan it's veryinteresting because he's a young
guy with an old soul.
But you know what does thatmean to you?
When I talked to you about howto know a person, the art of
seeing others, others deeply andbeing deeply seen.
Ryan Sullivan (02:34):
How does that resonate with you?
Sure, so I think there's, youknow, the, the, what I would.
What comes to mind when I thinkabout this is small talk, right
, and kind of that transitionwhere you're like, ah, I got to
come up with we'll talk aboutthe weather or we'll talk about
the sports team, so I can try toget to this person into a real
conversation, right, right.
(02:55):
So I have like small talk andthen there's big talk.
For me, I don't mind small talk, but I really want to get to
that big talk, or whatever youmight want to call it the
opposite of small talk.
Let's talk about somethingdeeper.
I don't mind, I don't, itdoesn't matter to me what it is,
um, but that's something Ireally resonate with this,
because I love getting a littlebit deeper and learning more
about somebody and who, who theyare, not just you know what
(03:17):
they do.
Marc Bernstein (03:18):
So actually the piece I read last night talked
about you know you meet someonenew.
And I've made this mistakeyounger in my life, when I'm
working on my personal growthand things, particularly when I
was dating, I would meet womenand I'd like want to get deep,
like right away.
Well, that could scare peopleoff.
It can intimidate them Right.
So, and not just, I've done itin business situations and I've
(03:39):
learned that lesson over theyears, and I'm not a big small
talker, I don't really lovesmall talk, but you have to
because you have to find somecommonality and you have to
build the basis for arelationship before you start
getting into those things.
And that's a lesson I've learnedover time which is kind of
interesting.
So it's how you use the smalltalk.
Ryan Sullivan (03:58):
Oh, it doesn't always work.
Yeah, I know.
Marc Bernstein (04:02):
I understand.
So let me tell you about RyanSullivan.
He's been here before.
Ryan makes music and podcasts,so we have that in common.
I make music and podcasts andmoney, as does he, but I
literally make money, Sure, andwe're actually going to talk
about that a little today.
He's the founder of PodcastPrinciples, a boutique content
strategy and production companyfor B2B businesses.
(04:25):
After his own podcast and musiccareer took off in 2019, he
helped other creators andbusiness owners do the same.
Since then, he's helpedhundreds of founders,
entrepreneurs, multi-platinumartists and creators around the
world launch and grow theirshows.
His mission to help thousandsof business owners expand their
reach and revenue through thepower of creative podcasting and
(04:47):
media so welcome.
Ryan Sullivan (04:50):
Ryan, thank you, Marc, for having me and thank
you for doing this, something alittle bit untraditional for us.
Marc Bernstein (04:57):
This is going to be a little untraditional.
So when Ryan was last here, Iwas very impressed with him.
He's are you 26 yet 26.
26.
Okay, so he was 25 when he washere and we, um, we, you know,
we connected on it, on, weconnected.
I mean, we had a lot in commonand we connected and we stayed
in touch and what he's doing nowis different.
(05:19):
What you're doing now isdifferent than what you were
doing a year and a half ago.
Ryan Sullivan (05:29):
So why don't you talk about that for a minute and
then we're going to flip thescript here?
Sure, so, and I won't get rightinto that, I'll talk about what
we're doing for a second to addthe context.
But what we do now is we had acompany that helped business
owners launch podcasts.
Right Now it could be podcasts,or it could be video, or it
could be radio, or it could bejust shooting content and
recording these business ownersjust talking, right.
(05:49):
So now we have a lot more waysto do it and we've now adapted a
little bit more to thecomfortability of the person on
the other side of the mic.
Marc Bernstein (06:00):
So we so full transparency.
Ryan's here partly becausewe've decided to work together.
He's working with me on mypodcast, on this podcast where
we're going video.
We haven't done video before,so today's show is the first
video show and we're going to bedoing that in the future and
also he's working with me on umwe, we have.
(06:22):
So I'll just say this I neverreally talk about my business on
the show.
I'm a financial planner.
I've mentioned it.
I have a company, I havepartners in a company called
March, or sometimes called MarchForward, sometimes March
Advisors, depending on thecontext.
And we, you know we, that'swhat we do.
We work primarily I work almostexclusively with entrepreneurs
(06:46):
as a company.
We do a few other things, butprimarily we work with
entrepreneurs.
And I don't talk about this.
But I developed this as a wayto kind of take off on what I do
every day, which is talk toentrepreneurs about their
stories.
I really enjoy it and I reallystarted this out of love and
just to have something to poston social media without really
(07:06):
knowing what I was doing.
So I've never really posteddirectly about content, about
the business and what we do,what's different about us, and
there are a lot of things, andRyan, the old soul that he is,
has convinced me I should bedoing that.
So we're going to be talkingnot, we're not changing the
content of the show but todaywe're flipping the script and
(07:28):
he's going to interview me andthis was going to begin some of
our video and audio content thatwe're going to be putting out
there.
So so this is different for meand it's odd for me to be here
and be the interviewee.
Here and be the interviewee,but I'm ready, all right,
perfect.
Ryan Sullivan (07:44):
Well, let's get into it.
I will keep this show somewhatpredictable in terms of how you
run it.
I'm not going to be theinterviewer that Marc Bernstein
is.
That's not what I'm trying todo, but we will get into your
story, Marc.
Marc Bernstein (07:59):
You are anyway, you just do it in your way.
Ryan Sullivan (08:01):
I appreciate it.
So why don't we open it up withthe beginning right?
How did this start?
You can go any angle ordirection you want to go with
the start, but let's talk aboutit.
How did this start for you,whether that's the financial
side, or even how you gotstarted in your career?
Marc Bernstein (08:21):
Okay, so let's go back to high school.
In high school I was always agood student, got good grades,
but never really interested in atraditional career.
I was going to be a rock androll star.
That was what I was going to do.
I was, you know, I woulddaydream in classes and I would
write songs and create, and Ihad a songwriting partner and I
(08:44):
had a band and that's what I wasgoing to do.
But I also knew that in myfamily I'd be the first one
going to four-year college and Iknew it would be a letdown to
my family, but also to myself,to not have that opportunity,
because college those were thedays in college was a great
thing.
It still is, but the dynamicsof that have changed a little
(09:06):
bit.
But I so I tried to figure outwhat I was going to do.
So I became a music major withthe idea that I was going to
study music and I didn't knowwhat I was going to do after
that.
And then everyone always toldme you should be a lawyer and
because I was, I argued prettywell.
So they thought you know, thatmight be a good career for you
(09:27):
and it was always kind of in theback of my mind, but not
something that really appealedto me all that much until I
can't explain it.
But I had an English professornamed Dr Charles Robinson
Charlie Robinson and it was aromantic literature course and I
was very interested in that.
College was the first time I gotreally interested in subjects
(09:48):
other than rock and roll and Isaw usefulness in a lot of the
things I was learning andsomething about it sparked me,
about the romantic authors andalso the romantic period in
music, because I was alsostudying music history.
That really appealed to me andsomehow I don't remember the
(10:09):
connection, but somehow itoccurred to me hey, there must
be lawyers that are in the musicbusiness that represent
musicians.
Of course that's called anentertainment lawyer, but I
didn't even know that existed atthe time.
So I started doing someresearch and I found this book
called this Business of Musicand I was like that's what I'm
going to do, but I'm going to bein the business, I'll be able
to promote my own music.
(10:30):
I'll be, you know, I'll bethere.
So you know, we'll see how thatall plays out.
So that's the path I took.
So I went to law school withthe idea that I would be an
entertainment attorney.
Ryan Sullivan (10:43):
So wow, okay, so there's multiple directions.
We could go with that, butwe'll keep moving forward in
time.
Yep, did you end up pursuingwhat was your opinion of being
an attorney once you got furtherinto that?
And then I assume somehow therewas the finance, was somewhere
in that journey along the line.
(11:04):
Maybe you know somewhere inthere.
Marc Bernstein (11:06):
Well, first of all, I went to.
I chose the Ohio StateUniversity, the Ohio State
University, as a place to go tolaw school because it would be
the most affordable to me as amusic major.
I didn't think I'd get into alot of law schools, but I ended
up getting into many,surprisingly, because I think
they were looking for diversityand the fact that I was a music
major might have actually helpedme.
(11:26):
So I went there with the ideathat I would number one.
My undergraduate fraternityhelped.
I was able to live in the house, I took a resident counselor
position and I got a scholarshipand I could become an Ohio
State resident after a year.
So it became very affordableand when I went, it was the only
(11:47):
school that required aninterview.
When I went out there, I got abig welcome wagon from my
fraternity and they brought allthe co-eds and I was like, oh,
this could be fun, it doesn'thave to be drudgery to go to law
school.
So so, anyway, that was my.
That was my methodology forchoosing a law school.
Did you end up becoming alawyer?
I did, I am, I'm still a lawyer.
Ryan Sullivan (12:05):
Wow, okay, you may not know that.
Yeah Well, do you?
Interesting, okay, so why don'tI zoom in on one thing here?
Is there an overlap between lawand finance that you found,
maybe for you, or just maybe ingeneral Music?
Marc Bernstein (12:20):
law and finance Sure, I general Music law and
finance Sure, I'll finish.
I'll try to finish quickly thestory and then I'll tell you.
And we have a break coming up,so maybe we can finish the story
before the break, sure, and gofrom there.
But I quickly determined Ihated law school.
I mean, it's not designed to bea pleasurable experience but I
really I pretty quickly realizedI probably wasn't going to
(12:40):
spend the rest of my careerpracticing law.
And in fact I was with a friendof fraternity, brother, walking
to the bursar's office to checkout after the first quarter.
I was resigning from law school.
And somewhere along the line Irealized, you know, I was at a
time I was the last year of thedraft in the Vietnam War and you
(13:01):
know, if they hadn't ended thewar I could have been called up
and that was a war nobody atthat point wanted to go to.
But I did have this littleinkling of I would love to go to
boot camp but not necessarilyhave to serve in a war, you know
.
And to me I realized that lawschool was my mental boot camp
and that I had to see thisthrough.
So I went from living in thefraternity house and the parties
(13:24):
.
Going on and trying to strugglewith my studies and I was near
the bottom of my class.
I said, well, if I'm going todo this, I have to do it right.
So I started living in thelibrary most of the time instead
and I turned that around.
I finished the next twoquarters and I turned it around.
I still thought I'm probablynot going to practice law for
the rest of my life, but I gotto see this through.
(13:44):
So I did, and I think it was agreat education and I'm really
glad I did it.
And I got out of law school andI just make a long story short.
I spent a few years pursuingthe entertainment field.
I worked for a one-personlawyer in Philadelphia.
I made contacts a lot ofcontacts in New York, because I
finished law school at NYU inorder to pursue the
(14:06):
entertainment business.
I spent some time on the WestCoast, spent some time in
England and I spent a few yearstrying to really put that all
together and I gave myself threeyears and at the end of three
years I saw the underbelly ofthe business.
There was a big recession atthe time and I saw firings and I
saw a lot of people I didn'trespect in the business for lack
(14:30):
of a way of putting it and Ialso was representing artists
who were needy in many cases andI just felt like I don't know
that.
I can see this is going to takea long time to be successful
and I thought I could be, but Ifelt like I need more immediate
gratification and I wasn'tfeeling fulfilled doing this, so
(14:52):
that became my search for whatI was going to do next and with
that, I think that's a reallygood place for us to take a real
quick break.
Announcer (15:00):
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(15:22):
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Ryan Sullivan (15:49):
I guess I should say we're back on Founders Forum
, but I'll hand the microphoneback to Ryan Sure.
So we're here with Marc, withMarc Bernstein's story condensed
life story.
I have so many questions aboutthe music industry, about music
law, so many things that maybewe'll do on a further episode or
they can get into on a podcastwhere you're the guest, but
today we're focusing on yourjourney.
You left off at hey, maybe thismusic law or entertainment law
(16:15):
thing may not be my career.
Marc Bernstein (16:19):
So I got back from a trip to England and was
somewhat, I was encouraged, butthe artist I was working with
was discouraged about ourprogress and I'd put what I felt
was my heart and soul into forthe last couple of years and I
said you know what?
I don't know if this is goingto work for me.
So I spent, actually took a fewmonths off probably the only
time I've taken a realsabbatical in my life and to
(16:42):
really figure out what I wantedto do and I was looking at a lot
of different things, differentareas of the law, but I really
what I called the straightpractice law.
That wasn't the music business,didn't appeal to me too much.
In hindsight there are a lot ofthings in the law I could have
done.
But but I got attracted to thisnew um, my, I have a brother
that was in the insuranceindustry and he said, hey,
(17:03):
there's these companiesadvertising for lawyers to be
financial planners.
So I went to one of theseinterviews.
They would not hire me because,um, I was.
They did.
They did a marketing test andit was really about who I knew
more than how good I was, andthey wanted me now, at my age
with all my connections not meat 29 years old without all
(17:27):
those connections.
But I loved what they presentedand I said this is what I want
to do and I figured it outbecause I love the gratification
of helping people with theirfutures, their financial futures
.
I had some sales experience, Ihad background in sales, I was.
It just seemed like it fit mereally well.
(17:47):
So that became my journey, beganmy journey to figure out how I
wanted to do this, and I wouldjust say that the journey
started with a company that youknow wanted me.
They had just acquired.
It was an insurance companythat acquired a brokerage
company and they wanted me towork on both sides of the house.
But they basically hired me tosell life insurance.
(18:07):
Nothing wrong with that andI've spent a lot of time in that
end of the business, but itwasn't my picture of what I
wanted to do and the other sidenever.
It was kind of a scam wherethey didn't never really
materialized.
So then I went on.
I started another company witha partner and and started doing
financial planning, but wedidn't have a really good model
(18:29):
for it and then I joined aregional firm where I helped
create the financial planningvalue proposition.
This is probably going back 20to 25 years ago and I felt like
this is really closer to what Iwant to get to do, where we do,
you know, we really go inwithout an agenda and do
financial planning, we charge afee and then we help implement
(18:53):
the plan for clients.
And I started out in my lawpractice.
Besides musicians, I had smallbusiness owners as my clients.
That was sort of my naturalmarket, and I also had lawyers,
because that was a naturalmarket, because a lot of my
friends were lawyers and somedoctors.
So I've always basically beenin the entrepreneurial
marketplace.
(19:13):
The doctors and lawyers wereprimarily the entrepreneurial
lawyers and doctors that hadtheir own practices and
businesses aside from what theydid, aside from their profession
.
So that's what I gravitatedtowards and that's what I've
been building for the last 40years, I dare to say right now.
Ryan Sullivan (19:30):
So we could go right into.
Okay, what are the challengesthat you face with this business
.
If you don't mind, I'd love totalk about what were some of the
challenges that you saw peoplefacing where you were about to
design this financial planningvalue proposition.
What problems were you solving?
Marc Bernstein (19:51):
Well, yeah, that's a great question.
I wasn't expecting that one.
But number one peopleintelligent people, lawyers,
doctors doesn't mean really theyknow anything about finance or
you know.
So I did a lot of educatingearly on still do about it,
(20:12):
started out about products andthat's one of my challenges
because it was allproduct-driven for many, many
years and I didn't want it to beproduct-driven.
I wanted it to be planning andprocess-driven deeper
(20:36):
conversations and talk aboutthings like their legacy or talk
about the future of theirbusinesses or talk about some of
the issues they're having intheir businesses that they maybe
don't think about on adifferent every day.
But when you get deep they sayyou know what I've got to worry
about.
Like, if I want to succeed thisbusiness, I have to make sure
some of these employees retain.
I retain them and we're havingsome issues and I'm not sure if
(20:58):
that's going to happen, thingslike that that would pop up and
I I got to really like it to thepoint where I've written a book
and the book is called thefiscal therapy solution, cause I
felt like that's what I do andthat's I really thrive on that,
and it didn't hurt that my wifewas a family therapist and I
(21:20):
kind of I feel like I grew up inmy marriage and therapy and I
became kind of a money therapistto a certain extent.
Ryan Sullivan (21:24):
Do you see, do you does it seem like?
Is it always that financialchallenges, so to say, are they
always?
Do you find that starting withthe person right and their
actual challenges will help fixthe financial challenges?
Yeah, um, is that where youstart?
(21:44):
You start with the person andkind of back to the theme of
almost the beginning of thisepisode.
Marc Bernstein (21:48):
Yeah, I mean I'd say that varies.
I mean, sometimes if you fixthe financial challenge, it
helps fix the person Interesting.
Sometimes the other way around,Um, but, and you know, and I'm
not there, I'm not really atherapist, I mean I'm not really
there to solve all their, youknow, inner demons and all that
kind of thing.
But, um, I have a lot ofsatisfaction from having helped
(22:12):
people find a lot of peace justthrough the talking process.
That's why I call it a form oftherapy.
It's a form of unlicensedtherapy.
I have many licenses, but notas a therapist.
Ryan Sullivan (22:21):
I love it and I'm just really glad that you
explained that, because I findthat that's one of your
differentiators.
So, before we get into wherethis company is going, talk
about, yeah, some of thoseactual challenges that you faced
over the years, and then we'regoing to get to the vision as
well and what you guys actuallydo.
Marc Bernstein (22:38):
Well, look, in most of the industry there's a
pressure to sell products, and Ifelt that at all levels all the
time.
And you know and I was okaywith it to a certain extent,
because it's a great way tolearn and it's a great way to
help people A lot of theproducts really help solve
problems.
But the journey was to switchit around and today, what we do
(23:04):
and, you know, still our valueproposition is still evolving.
But my ultimate dream is tohave a company that does
financial planning the right way, and what I mean by that is
total blank slate planning.
We have no agenda in mind ofanything to sell.
Another thing that we do todayis that most money managers and
(23:26):
there's a famous one, I won'tmention the name that's always
talking about we're fiduciaries.
We sit on your side of thetable.
We do better if you do better.
Well, that's true of anybodythat charges a fee to manage
money.
However, their goal is to lookat your portfolio and tell you
what's wrong with it, and thenthey manage the money.
Well then, it's the foxwatching the hen house who's
(23:48):
watching them.
You know they're never going totell you hey, we screwed up,
like you should move your moneysomewhere else.
So what we do is we hireindependent managers that we've
vetted and that we use a regularbasis and that we have
relationships with, and we canintervene when need be between
the client and kind of mediatebetween the client and the money
manager and do a lot of thehand-holding with the clients et
(24:13):
cetera, but then replace themanager if it's not working for
the client because theirobjectives changed or the
manager's style changed orwhatever it is, and those
managers understand that that'swhat we do and their clients
understand what we do.
So therefore, we're not uswatching us.
We're there to really lookafter the client's interest and
(24:35):
truly sit on the same side ofthe table.
So there's other aspects to it,but those are two of the big
points that make us differentand that also I'm looking to
perfect and I'm driving mypartners crazy, because these
are things that I've dreamtabout since I started this
business and we're very close,we're like on, we're on the edge
of being there and we'recontinuing to work on it.
Ryan Sullivan (24:58):
I think I think we have time for this.
You spoke about doctors,lawyers, people like that when
you were building.
You know different other.
You know financial businesses,right that when you were
building different otherfinancial businesses, right.
Who do you work with now?
Marc Bernstein (25:11):
Primarily entrepreneurs of all kinds.
Still a few of the doctors andlawyers and things like that.
We have, as an example, a lotof oral surgeons and we've been
getting referred to some newones, but these are
entrepreneurial people, but allkinds of manufacturers,
technology companies, realestate developers, you know you
name it, but all what they allhave in common is that they're
(25:32):
entrepreneurial.
Ryan Sullivan (25:33):
Yeah, yeah, and there's.
That's why that's not the sameas a financial plan for, you
know, a standard nine to fivejob, for example.
Marc Bernstein (25:41):
Right.
So another thing that we thatI'm starting to talk about a lot
is that what is the keystoneasset for an entrepreneur?
Almost always it's the businessor it's the assets, if they're.
You know, it's the real estateif they're real estate
developers.
So most people will look at youknow whatever liquid money they
have, and say, oh, you shouldbe in a 60, 40 portfolio or
whatever it is.
And we look at it and say we'rebuilding a plan around what
(26:07):
their key assets already are.
And you know, which is anotherbig differentiator we start with
the business and look outwardinstead of just building it as a
separate thing, which I see somuch is happening out there.
Ryan Sullivan (26:21):
If you, what do you have to do in this next
three to five years to make yourvision a reality?
Marc Bernstein (26:28):
Well, we have a plan.
We're working with some outsideconsultants and the plan is to
improve our client processessuch that we're really
delivering as close toperfection as we can get and
delivering on our full valueproposition.
So we're starting with that andthen we're rethinking about how
to brand it and market it,which is part of why you're here
(26:50):
.
Ryan Sullivan (26:50):
Absolutely, and I'm results, or hopefully, your
success is a result of usworking together too, and I just
want to say thank you for doingthis and thank you for doing
this untraditional interviewallowing me to take the reins,
Marc.
I really appreciate it andloved hearing your story here.
Marc Bernstein (27:06):
We have about a minute left, so I'm going to ask
you a question, oh, onlybecause, and then maybe we'll
respond.
I'll answer the same questionwhat's your favorite music,
since you're a music guy?
Ryan Sullivan (27:18):
Wow, it's so hard for me, it's so hard to pick, I
will say, my favorite band.
It's called Sublime.
It's a mix of punk rock and ska.
I have the.
I have a Sublime tattoo on myshoulder, so that's my favorite
band.
Favorite genre?
I don't think I have one.
Marc Bernstein (27:34):
Great band, great great band.
I mean, I love them.
I was just listening to them.
There's one.
They have a big song, the bighit what I got, yep, what I got.
So mine is and this is ourgenerational difference the
Beatles.
You know, everything I did andall the music I listened to came
from that.
(27:54):
So I've talked about thatbefore.
So enough of that, and that'sabout it for us today on
Founders Forum.
So thanks for being here,thanks for listening to my story
today and, Ryan, thanks forbeing a great interviewer and a
great guest, and we'll continueAnytime.
Ryan Sullivan (28:14):
Thanks for having me.
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