February 7, 2025 • 39 mins
What happens when a self-professed skeptic encounters undeniable evidence of faith? This episode of the Foxhole Symphony Podcast takes you on a thought-provoking journey inspired by personal transformation and belief. Drawing from a moving devotional by Justin Camp and a riveting interview with Lee Strobel on the Sean Ryan Show, we explore how declaring one’s faith openly can be a catalyst for profound change. We'll share stories of evolution in our own spiritual lives and highlight the pivotal role that a community of like-minded men can play in strengthening one's commitment to faith.
Faith is as much a choice as it is a journey, and we dive into the heart of what it means to believe actively in Jesus Christ. It’s not just about declaring faith but also about living it out loud, even when doubts arise. The episode discusses how aligning actions with beliefs can be risky yet rewarding, urging listeners to seek a community to support this courageous path. By exploring the stories of skeptics like Lee Strobel, we underscore the importance of being part of a supportive network and the transformative power of surrendering to a life driven by faith.
Throughout the episode, we reflect on the ongoing nature of the spiritual journey, embracing both the triumphs and tribulations that come with it. Authenticity and hope become central themes as we discuss the importance of maintaining a heartfelt and candid relationship with God and each other. We express our gratitude for the influential figures who've shaped our spiritual journeys and invite you to partake in a prayer for hope and healing. Join us as we navigate the unique paths of faith and the unparalleled strength found in a community that fosters growth and abundant life.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro, andwe are back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole today and they are
making their case for Christ.
Whether you are on the fence ora Jesus freak, it's going to be
(00:51):
a good one.
Get comfortable, open yournotes app and let's get this
symphony started.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with my goodfriend Mark.
Just call me Frosty, hey Frosty.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So what I want to talk to you about today is
something that is motivated bytwo events in my life in the
last week.
One is a devotional from JustinCamp that basically said and
I'm paraphrasing, of coursebasically said men, every now
and then you've got to stop anddeclare what you believe in,
(01:28):
stand up together and say this.
This is what I believe and thisis why I'm with the men.
I'm with because we believethat's one.
Number two is our good friend,lee Strobel.
I don't, I'm just kidding, Idon't know but Lee, the author
of the Case for Christ and theCase for Heaven, the Case for
the Gospels and the Casebooksthat apparently have sold some
(01:50):
14 or 15 million copies over thelast years.
I was on a podcast I listenedto called the Sean Ryan Show,
and Sean is a newly convertedChristian and was just asking
phenomenal questions.
Actually, I got a preview ofthis Christmas Eve, but in the
last two and a half days, threedays I've been listening to this
three-hour podcast and it'sincredible.
(02:12):
It's just great.
It continues to be.
I still have 20 minutes to go.
It continues to be great for meto hear someone who has Sean's
life experience and then anewfound faith and asking those
kinds of questions based on hisposition in the world.
He's a dad and a family man andwon't go into the Sean Ryan
(02:36):
story, but just reallymotivational for me to realize I
take so much for granted aboutthis.
And I'm not just beingself-deprecating, I'm saying, oh
, you believe a lot of thingsthat probably have people
scratching their heads, mark.
Like your faith is founded infaith.
(02:58):
Right, I believe, yeah.
So I thought you and I couldspend a few minutes talking
about and declaring what webelieve the past in another
episode or in our lives but Idon't want to let that dilute
(03:31):
what is real.
And what is real is.
I have a faith born from acuriosity in people of faith
Like why do you believe this?
(03:55):
That's kind of how it started.
And then some attractiveness ofmen that I respected and I'm
like well, they believe andthat's the kind of guys I want
to hang out with.
So maybe believing is a goodidea.
Yeah, you know, these were some.
The genesis of my walk was, youknow, I've got a men's group
going on downstairs, but youknow, and it's good, of course.
(04:19):
You know, band of brothers goodthing, yeah, but my, but my
ability to stand up and declareand defend my faith has only
come to fruition in my 60s.
And here I sit in front of you.
I feel today I am ready, I amprepared for that conversation.
(04:43):
Without being able to name achapter or verse, by the way, I
don't want to speak for you Iknow a few things and I know
generally where to find thingsin the Bible and I could
probably quote them.
Badly, it's the Vesper editionor version.
But my passion for my faith andmy belief in a savior who died
(05:06):
for me that I can easily recantthe story of believing in a God,
you know, to admitting my sin,to repenting and turning away,
knowing that I'm not going toget to heaven without a
knowledge of why he died for mepersonally, right, and then us,
(05:27):
you know.
So all of that leads me to I, I, I want to stand in front of
you and anybody, both peoplelistening, and say I love, I
love my savior and Jesus, and Iam here and I believe.
And call me, talk to me, let meknow what questions you have,
cause I'm not going to know theanswers, but I'll, I'll help
find out.
Yeah, that's how strongly Ifeel about it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's interesting, when you brought this up this
morning I was like, wow, Iwonder, like of those who listen
, like I kind of made theassumption that they're they're
followers of Jesus.
You know and know what theybelieve and why they believe it.
But I mean, you know, perhapsthat's not the case.
I don't know that, we don'tknow.
But I hope some of them don't,right, Really.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Cause.
That means we're getting oneperson per episode.
That might grow closer to God,Well amen.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, um, and I, I love, I love Lee Strobel story
and the case for Christ, and youknow, it's always exciting to
me to hear these stories of youknow people like Lee, or you
know scientists.
I love hearing these stories ofthese scientists who seek to
(06:40):
you know, prove or disprove.
You know the uh, the truth ofthe gospel Um, and it's
interesting, there's um, uh, ascientist that actually was was
brought up to me recently and II can't recall his name, um, but
if you, if, if you searchevidence for the resurrection,
(07:02):
you'll, you'll, you'll find,you'll find this guy.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
He's on the first page.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
He's a scientist who became a Christian and it's
interesting because he kind ofsays that the there's sort of.
Well, let me just say thisthere's going back to the case
for Christ, right.
Going back to the case forChrist, there's the sort of
biblical slash, historical slash, scientific case for Christ,
(07:31):
right.
And then there's the personaltestimony right Case for Christ.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
His personal testimony or ours?
Ours.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
How we have experienced God in our lives.
And so for me, I just think ofit in those two.
Maybe probably anoversimplification, but there
are three historical claims,which are biblical of course,
that are typically looked at orsummarized when there's a
(08:03):
discussion around the case thecase for christ or evidence
right so jesus was crucified anddied, which is pretty much
unrefuted I mean it's unrefutedright like yeah, there's enough
eyewitness, historically right,historic, there's, there's,
there's very few historians orscientists that would that, that
would say that, that, thatRight that a man named Jesus was
(08:27):
crucified by the Romans at thattime.
Right, yes, who?
Who claims to be God?
Yeah, Okay, Right.
Then there's the second one ishis body was buried in a tomb
that was found empty a few dayslater.
And then the third is theresurrection right that his
disciples, some of his disciples, experienced encounters with
(08:48):
who they believed to be hisnewly resurrected body, and you
know, all are backed byhistorical evidence and as well
as scholarly consensus, andtogether there's a compelling
case for the resurrection, butit it, you know the the the case
(09:10):
for Christ hinges on theresurrection.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Right, I was going to say, of the three, the last one
is the one that I think peoplewho don't want to believe or or
or don't believe hang their haton Right Right.
All right, I can get in withthat.
He was killed, okay, of coursehe was buried, everybody's
buried.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
But number three.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then there's you know, it'sinteresting because there's
these, these eyewitness accounts.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
A friend and foe.
Keep in mind Right People onboth sides.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That's right, right, that's right and that has
(10:12):
carried through right to currentday, right here sitting.
Go, wow, like how I'veexperienced God and yet I mean
in very, very powerful ways, andand, and yet still have these
little crises of faith, right,and then I experienced God and I
have these, this crisis offaith, and I experienced God,
and I just watched you do therollercoaster right, it's like,
um, that's our real life, yes,but as as you look back, as I
(10:34):
look back, way back, and I go,oh my gosh, like the, the, the
miracle of my life just sittinghere, breathing, talking to you
right now.
It's a miracle.
And then you know the miraclesthat I've witnessed and that
(10:55):
we've witnessed, you know,throughout the last 30 plus
years walking with Jesus is mycase for Christ that I have to
often remind myself of to buildmy faith Right.
(11:17):
And and it's it's interestingfor me, you know, I'm a risk
taker and I have become, likehe's borderline, addicted to
seeing God move and experiencinghim in fresh new ways.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Because he does.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right, you've been given little.
And here's the thing it's notjust, it's not simply the high
notes, the highlight reelsJesus' highlight reel, right,
it's a good one Of miracles butalso experiencing him in the low
(12:04):
lights, you know, in the mess,in the suffering, in the pain
and everything in between, andthe pain and everything in
between, all that coming to aplace where you know learning to
experience God in the mundane,like Brother Lawrence talks
about, right, and just in thesimplest, you know, quietest
(12:33):
moments, you know and and and,and, experiencing intimacy with
him, um and so I don't know.
Those are the things that cameto mind when you brought this
topic up.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I love the fact that it was made to be reflective
right, looking at the bigpicture.
I already talked about it,without any prompting from
either one of us.
I'm like, I'm 18 years and 30.
And it's a lifetime adventure.
I think what we're making clearmy truth is yes, I am believing
(13:04):
in some things that are headscratchers and that I don't
fully understand.
I admit it, there are parts ofthe story, you know.
You know I'm into the details.
I love the, the, thecelebrating his birth.
I know there are people thatwould ask me you believe that a
(13:25):
baby was born and this is thebackstory less than ideal
circumstances.
And then, 33 years later thebackstory, less than ideal
circumstances.
And then, 33 years later, youknow, and by the way, the baby
is born and then disappears offthe face of the earth, except
for one little, you know, 10year old.
He gets lost in the in thetemple, and then you don't hear
about him again for 20 years.
And there he is and suddenly,three years and he died and is
(13:48):
buried and comes back from thedead.
Yeah Right, I can hear it andI've read it.
I don't know that anyone hasspecifically asked me about it,
but I can understand why you'dhave some questions about that
story.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, yes, until you move outward from that story in
the book Right, back and forwardand look at the whole story.
From that story in the bookright Back and forward, and look
at the whole story.
You know the whole mission ofGod, right, and you know, all of
a sudden, and you start lookingat, you know creation, you
(14:28):
start looking at genealogy, youstart looking at the prophecies
and you start looking at theprophecies and you start looking
at the whole story and thekingdom coming back to earth and
all of a sudden it's a wholelot harder to say I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Right, and I couldn't agree with you more.
You're just making me giveanother shout out to the Bible
project, right.
Because, they say the wholestory, the whole biblical story,
from the first words of Genesisto the last of Revelation, is a
story that leads you to Jesus.
What I just did in 45 secondsfrom you know.
A baby is born and then there'sa resurrection and an ascension
(15:09):
, right.
So there's so much more to itand it's such a rich and
beautiful story.
If you're going to invest, Iwould shout out and say if
you're going to invest time infiguring out how things work in
the world, the Bible story is agreat one to invest some time in
.
Yeah, right, I, I.
You know how much I love justreading about the 360 details of
(15:33):
this story.
We've chosen to believe it.
Yeah, and it's a choice, sarge.
Yes, we've chosen to believethis and many don't.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, and then I mean not to get too far off track
here, but I Us Well, no, I justyes, it's a choice to
investigate, it's a choice tobelieve, and then there's a
choice regarding what that meansand how that.
(16:02):
What does that mean for me?
If I choose to believe, thenwhat should my life look like?
In other words, what are theimplications of that choice to
believe?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you're a child of God.
Now what?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, and you know, that's the part for me that I've
just become.
You know, when you, when youmentioned making the case for
Christ, I'm like you know, likeI am, I've become very
passionate about joining God atwork and seeing people's faith
(16:39):
activated, because I think, inlarge part, most people who
profess to be followers of Jesus, their faith is not activated.
It's, it's, it's pretty, it'spretty quiet, it's under the
layers and under the radar, it'ssecondary to the life we live,
(17:03):
versus the, the reverse.
And and I don't know, you know,for me, at this point in my
life, I'm going man, know, youknow, for me, at this point in
my life, I'm going man.
There's a sense of urgency thatGod has put in my heart.
Say like nothing, nothing elsematters Nothing, zero, zilch,
(17:26):
zippo matters more.
So, what, so, so, what, so what?
And therein lies the crisis offaith.
For me, then, it's okay.
What does it mean to drop mynets?
What does it mean to take up mycross?
What does it mean, you know, asI read through the scriptures
(17:52):
and I go, okay, yeah, well,that's nice for them, right,
well, wait a minute.
Like what is God calling us toright now, current day?
He's given us the gift ofbreath.
We don't know how many we haveleft, so what?
What are we going to do withthem?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And you have decided to take the action-oriented
approach, to the point where youmake life choices, to draw
yourself into areas,geographically speaking, for
myself, where God has me rightnow.
That is, you know, the choice Ihad to make.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He's brought me to a place in my faith where he has
said Sarge, because he calls meSarge.
Steve Arino, what are you goingto do, pal, stay long.
What are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
pal.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Stay long.
What are you going to do?
Is it just lip service?
Or are you going to really dropyour nets?
And you know, leave it allbehind and step out of the boat
and follow me, and, and, andthat's like, that's scary.
It's scary and, and you know, atthe same time, I'm jacked up
(19:20):
because I'm a risk taker, I'm aradical and that's.
You know like I love living onthe edge, but from a faith
perspective.
You know, listen, there's a,there's a whisper in my ear all
day, every day, going.
Are you out of your mind?
What are you doing?
Yeah, and not just a whisper inmy ear, but people in my life,
(19:43):
plenty of people.
You crazy.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Yeah, and and world in the enemy, Well, yeah, what are you doing
?
Yeah, and.
And world in the enemy?
Well, yeah, and.
And you know.
And then there's, you know,God's soft, still voice that
I've spent countless hoursleaning into attempting to hear,
you know.
But the enemy said oh, did youreally hear him say that, Just
(20:05):
like he did in the garden?
Right, how?
About that Is that really, youknow, I mean so anyway what do
you believe?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Can you stop Tell?
Tell everybody listen.
What do you believe?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I believe, uh, I believe that Jesus Christ was
born, died and resurrected forme personally and every other
single person individually, thathe died and rose again because
(20:48):
sin entered the world right andthere was no other way to come
to the Father but through thelife, death and resurrection of
Jesus Christ Great.
Come to the Father, but throughthe life, death and
resurrection of Jesus ChristGreat.
I believe, beyond that, thathe's faithful, he's just, he's
(21:09):
good, he cares deeply for us,knows us by every molecule and
chromosome and knit us togetherin our mother's womb.
That he's faithful, that he'strustworthy.
And those are really for meright now, those are really
(21:33):
critical beliefs.
Those are critical beliefs.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I need to believe that right Like I need, to
believe that right, right Like Ineed to believe.
Yes, I feel it.
I can feel it coming from him.
And I love it.
Thank you, I wanted to cause Itook that opportunity earlier to
introduce why we're talkingabout this, so people know what
we believe and so much of thatstory I I have watched you and
watched you walk and talk andput your hands and feet and
(22:00):
mouth to work for God over theseyears.
Look, it's better together.
I just want people to know ifyou're going to try and figure
this all out by yourself.
I'm not saying you can't, andit is a very personal journey,
but it is so much more fruitfuland rich to do it with someone
(22:21):
who believes what you believe.
Yeah, and it find those people,please, it is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, you're right, it's not impossible, but boy is
it tough.
I mean, I, I, you know, I hadzero biblical community or
connection when I came to faithin Christ through a stranger on
the street corner.
God bless him.
But he gave me a little, alittle Bible.
I went home and I read throughit.
I'm like I don't understandthis.
I have no idea what I'm readinghere.
What is this?
(22:46):
Just just reading the words andyou know, and it wasn't until
God placed me in community thatyou know, started to understand
a little bit more, grow, and sothrough that, I don't know, dude
, I get it.
Yeah, and I.
I was completely lost, eventhough I had been found by you
(23:08):
know, a stranger on a streetcorner.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right, lost but found Completely lost.
No, I get it and I, I, Iremember, like it was yesterday,
because now I'm, I'm an adult.
Remember, just remember, justput on your.
If you're putting on yourglasses, I'm an adult.
And, of course, what man wantsto sit in a room and say, can
someone please explain this tome?
Because that was how I felt andwhat I did to offset it is what
(23:34):
you'd expect me to do is do Iwould get engaged and do
activities until I hoped someonewould explain some of the Bible
stories to me.
And then how does this fittogether and the things that I
take a little bit more forgranted today because I have
learned?
But this began for me comingfrom a all right, I realized I'm
(23:55):
not going to do this on my own.
I can only read so much andlisten to so many podcasts I
found friendships started askingsome questions and then some of
those answers, by the way, werelike no, I don't think that's
what it is.
And you go through this journeyand it's like just a quest to
(24:17):
learn and to understand, toabsorb some of these things we
find to be true today.
This is a journey of discoveryfor me every day and I love that
part of it.
Some of it comes from justbeing quiet and listening for
the voice.
Some of it comes from readingthe word.
Some of it comes from listeningto podcasts.
Some comes from talking to youand my other friends doing
(24:40):
devotionals together, things ofthat sort.
All of these enhance andincrease my faith to the point
where we two grown men with 110years on the planet together can
stand up and look anybody inthe eye and say we believe.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, and again I just want to.
I think it's important enoughto repeat, and that is it's one
thing to believe, but it's notenough.
It's not enough.
There are certainly words inthe Bible that talk about
(25:17):
believing, but when I look atthe words of Jesus over and over
and over and over again, youknow it, it, the, the, the
calling was to follow him.
So my point is it's it's onething to believe, right, it's
another thing to quote, unquotewe these are, these are words we
(25:41):
use culturally put your faithin, right.
What does that mean?
What means you're following himright right.
Um, you know um, in matthew 7,not everyone who says to me,
lord, lord, will enter thekingdom of heaven, but only
those who, only the one who doesthe will of my father in heaven
.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Um well, let me ask a question a different way, so
you can explain it for me tounderstand it, and I think
others will too.
Are you suggesting that we canhave the faith that we share
without saying we believe?
Like is belief not aprerequisite?
Like saying I believe in God,oh it is, it is.
It is you believe it is.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
It is Okay, so belief isn't unnecessary.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, it's better to believe.
It's just not the whole story,I think.
I think we unfortunately umbecause of the emphasis on God's
grace, which I'm a big believerin.
I believe in the grace of God.
Thank you, jesus.
Right His hand is in the air.
(26:55):
We, as the church, tend to justlive our lives as though our
belief in him doesn't reallymatter all that much.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
All right Now.
So I believe, now what?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I believe there are potentially eternal
implications.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I agree with that Right and the importance.
It goes back to what you weresaying about community, because
it goes back to the importanceof our actions over our words.
Right Right To to say I believesomething and act like I don't
is a big problem, big yeah.
(27:34):
And that's why I started out bysaying like so, what so then
what?
Because the, the, the.
And that's why I started out bysaying like so, what so then
what?
Because if you don't put someaction behind it, your words are
empty.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Faith without works is dead, amen.
Okay, so it's a long road forsome people just to get to.
I believe A long road 100%.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Okay, big step.
Yeah to I believe A long road.
100%, okay, big step, yeah.
If I'm in front of a personthat says, you know what I just
can't get, choose to follow him,allow your faith to be built,
(28:22):
then believe.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Okay, that's what the apostles did, because that's
right, that's what they did.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
They are a great example of that story, because
as I do, as I choose to followhim, what begins to happen is
I'm allowing God to change me asI follow him.
It's the following of him, it'sthe apprenticeship with him
that actually allows him tochange my heart, or invites him
(28:54):
to change my heart, my mind andmy way of life.
The more I choose to surrendermy life to Jesus which doesn't
it may start with belief, butdoesn't necessarily happen
through belief.
It happens through my actions.
I have to surrender.
So as I choose to surrender mylife to Jesus, the more I grow
in my relationship with him andlearn to trust in him, building
(29:19):
my belief.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Right, and while you're doing all of that, I have
to be sure at least I believethis, I hope you do there's a
supernatural part of this.
If it was just a process youhad to go through, for sure Okay
.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
All right, so it's totally supernatural.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
God's at work in this in ways I do not understand,
but I can tell you I have feltit.
I'm I'm holding my chest rightnow.
I have felt the power.
I have seen miracles I have.
I have watched men at work thatI trust and believe.
You're one of them, yeah, and Idon't understand it all the
time, and you know what?
(29:56):
I don't need to anymore.
Yeah, my desire to figure thisall out so it makes sense to me
is diminished every day.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
For sure, but there aren't.
I agree and I I stand with youin that, and at the same time,
there are some patterns thatwe've seen and experienced that
are almost undeniable, right, Imean like and experienced that
are almost undeniable right.
(30:27):
I mean, like the countlesspeople that have said, I've said
this on my knees in a state ofutter desperation, at 21 years
old, four years after, saying Ibelieve in you, jesus, and
praying a prayer of salvation onthat street corner and my life
being in shambles.
After that, four years later,on my knees in the street alone,
(30:50):
saying God, if you're real, ifyou're real now, is that
something that would be said bya man who believes God?
If you're real, yes, causewe're broken.
Like, prove it.
Yeah, take my life, challengeof God.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And, and I've heard that so many times, I've heard
that sort of you know, and and Ithink like it's interesting,
right, it's like I believe, butI don't believe, but if, if, if,
and at the same time like I'mtalking to God, right, like.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I don't believe this doesn't make any sense at all,
but I'm talking to you, right,and that's the.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You know this, this sort of like I've come to the
end of myself.
How about that?
I've come to the end of myself?
How about that?
I've come to the end of myself.
Dude, there's a whole episodeand a half.
I've got nothing Like place ofsurrender.
That's it.
It's, it's, it's, but it's thataction.
It's the.
I'm on my knees and I'm begging.
I'm begging Like take my life,show up, come into my life,
(31:56):
cause I life, because I prayedthis prayer four years ago and I
don't see you, I don't hear you, my life's a mess and I don't
understand why.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And look what he's done and he shows up Funny and
he shows up and he does that foreach of us and it doesn't mean
he's going to solve all yourproblems.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
No, but what he says is now we can get started.
Yes, oh, here you are, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You know I've been waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Oh, I haven't shown up.
What have you been doing thelast four years so running?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
To close, in a world full of immediate answers, in a
world where, with a few flicksof your thumb oh boy, be careful
, right, you can get bad info, Iwould just say that can we
agree to invite people toexperience God through his word,
through community and friends?
Yeah, follow him, yeah, becausehe's worth believing in.
(32:51):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yes, amen, absolutely 100%.
Yeah, amen, absolutely 100%,and there's nothing that's even
remotely close to worth it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Nothing and we have some life experience, so we're
not coming at this from you know, like we just woke up.
We have tested the waters ofwhat the world has to offer, and
for me, I would just say that Ifind my time close to God is
(33:30):
the best time, amen, and I likebeing with you, but you pale in
comparison to my God.
Amen, let's hope so my goodness, let's hope so.
So we have.
I think this could promoteother episodes and our
disclaimer Sarge.
We agree that we are nottrained theologians or
counselors or preachers.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
No, and if you ask me tomorrow I'll probably have
different answers.
I can't you know.
I got no.
I mean I'm kidding, but but Isay all this with, you know, a
childlike faith that's filledwith hope.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's, it's, it's that it's true.
His faithful love enduresforever.
Part of it is praying thatthat's true every day.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
It's filled with hope , Like I hope God continues to
show up Like I've seen you showup before.
Would you do it again?
Because like and I'm, as I,sort of hold my breath.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That he's not going to do a 40 years in the desert
thing to you.
Yes, right, that's right.
I mean, that's real, it is, itis.
Oh, you're in for some quiettime.
Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Right Twitch.
That's not what I had in mind.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
This is not what I had in mind, lord.
Can we look at this menu again,because I picked.
These are the columns I pickedfrom, and that wasn't it.
I'm not ready for some quiettime, but we enjoy our quiet
time with the Lord.
I enjoy my time with you.
It is great to sit with you andtalk.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You too.
I think we should.
Another episode, perhaps next,but we should talk about because
I've had countless people askme in the last six months
because I've said things likeI've heard the Lord say this, or
God is calling me to this.
And I've had countless peoplewho are believers say what do
you mean by that?
How did you, how did you hearthat that's a good one and um,
(35:26):
and I'm like well, how much timedo you have?
So it's maybe another episode.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Let's do it so quick.
Shout out to Sean Ryan and hispodcast to.
Lee Strobel to Justin Camp andto you, my friend, because it's
just great, Great that we canstir all this up in a pot and
not have to go eat it right away, because you know it's part of
the sauce that we're making forChristmas.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
And I'll say this we sat in a room together doing the
Experiencing God study, rightby Henry Blackaby.
I don't know how many years agoit was probably 15 years ago
Easy, right, and here we are,right.
And I remember back then wekind of looked at each other
Like we'd look down at the book.
We didn't know each other allthat well.
We looked at each other and I'mlike, uh, how's this work again
(36:11):
, you know?
And so like, here here we are,you know, having experienced God
in such enormously powerful andimpactful ways.
But we did, we sought it out.
We sat in that room and said,like well, experiencing God, I
want to experience God.
How do you experience God?
What does that look like?
Right, start today.
And yeah, so pick up one ofthose books.
(36:32):
We're going to have RichardBlackaby on, I think.
I hope so, henry's son, I hopeand we'll maybe talk about that.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Awesome.
Thank you, brother.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
God bless you Peace.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Two friends for 20 years, speaking their truth
about who Jesus is to them andwhy they want everyone to know
him.
I think that speaks to so manygood things.
First and most importantly,jesus died on that cross for you
.
Don't let that gift of eternityin heaven slip through your
fingers.
Second, that conversation isexactly what you get when two
(37:08):
brothers make a purpose-filleddecision to be authentic with
each other, even after 20 years.
They're wrestling through whatthey believe, how they got there
and everything in between.
They're wrestling through whatthey believe, how they got there
and everything in between.
Lastly, your relationship withGod is between you and God.
Don't let anyone tell you anydifferent.
He grabs hold of your heart andreveals to you his saving grace
(37:32):
.
I think that process is like afingerprint and there are no two
that are the same.
We all have to respect thatspace, and he made you and me
and everyone else relationalbeings.
We can survive when we arealone, but we can thrive when we
(37:54):
are in authentic community withother brothers.
For the math wizards out therethat don't like word problems,
god plus you equals salvation.
God plus you plus authenticrelationships equals an abundant
life that includes salvation.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
(38:14):
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
In Jesus' name amen.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to theFoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(38:49):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro, andwe are back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole today and they are
making their case for Christ.
Whether you are on the fence ora Jesus freak, it's going to be
(00:51):
a good one.
Get comfortable, open yournotes app and let's get this
symphony started.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with my goodfriend Mark.
Just call me Frosty, hey Frosty.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
So what I want to talk to you about today is
something that is motivated bytwo events in my life in the
last week.
One is a devotional from JustinCamp that basically said and
I'm paraphrasing, of coursebasically said men, every now
and then you've got to stop anddeclare what you believe in,
(01:28):
stand up together and say this.
This is what I believe and thisis why I'm with the men.
I'm with because we believethat's one.
Number two is our good friend,lee Strobel.
I don't, I'm just kidding, Idon't know but Lee, the author
of the Case for Christ and theCase for Heaven, the Case for
the Gospels and the Casebooksthat apparently have sold some
(01:50):
14 or 15 million copies over thelast years.
I was on a podcast I listenedto called the Sean Ryan Show,
and Sean is a newly convertedChristian and was just asking
phenomenal questions.
Actually, I got a preview ofthis Christmas Eve, but in the
last two and a half days, threedays I've been listening to this
three-hour podcast and it'sincredible.
(02:12):
It's just great.
It continues to be.
I still have 20 minutes to go.
It continues to be great for meto hear someone who has Sean's
life experience and then anewfound faith and asking those
kinds of questions based on hisposition in the world.
He's a dad and a family man andwon't go into the Sean Ryan
(02:36):
story, but just reallymotivational for me to realize I
take so much for granted aboutthis.
And I'm not just beingself-deprecating, I'm saying, oh
, you believe a lot of thingsthat probably have people
scratching their heads, mark.
Like your faith is founded infaith.
(02:58):
Right, I believe, yeah.
So I thought you and I couldspend a few minutes talking
about and declaring what webelieve the past in another
episode or in our lives but Idon't want to let that dilute
(03:31):
what is real.
And what is real is.
I have a faith born from acuriosity in people of faith
Like why do you believe this?
(03:55):
That's kind of how it started.
And then some attractiveness ofmen that I respected and I'm
like well, they believe andthat's the kind of guys I want
to hang out with.
So maybe believing is a goodidea.
Yeah, you know, these were some.
The genesis of my walk was, youknow, I've got a men's group
going on downstairs, but youknow, and it's good, of course.
(04:19):
You know, band of brothers goodthing, yeah, but my, but my
ability to stand up and declareand defend my faith has only
come to fruition in my 60s.
And here I sit in front of you.
I feel today I am ready, I amprepared for that conversation.
(04:43):
Without being able to name achapter or verse, by the way, I
don't want to speak for you Iknow a few things and I know
generally where to find thingsin the Bible and I could
probably quote them.
Badly, it's the Vesper editionor version.
But my passion for my faith andmy belief in a savior who died
(05:06):
for me that I can easily recantthe story of believing in a God,
you know, to admitting my sin,to repenting and turning away,
knowing that I'm not going toget to heaven without a
knowledge of why he died for mepersonally, right, and then us,
(05:27):
you know.
So all of that leads me to I, I, I want to stand in front of
you and anybody, both peoplelistening, and say I love, I
love my savior and Jesus, and Iam here and I believe.
And call me, talk to me, let meknow what questions you have,
cause I'm not going to know theanswers, but I'll, I'll help
find out.
Yeah, that's how strongly Ifeel about it.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's interesting, when you brought this up this
morning I was like, wow, Iwonder, like of those who listen
, like I kind of made theassumption that they're they're
followers of Jesus.
You know and know what theybelieve and why they believe it.
But I mean, you know, perhapsthat's not the case.
I don't know that, we don'tknow.
But I hope some of them don't,right, Really.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Cause.
That means we're getting oneperson per episode.
That might grow closer to God,Well amen.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, um, and I, I love, I love Lee Strobel story
and the case for Christ, and youknow, it's always exciting to
me to hear these stories of youknow people like Lee, or you
know scientists.
I love hearing these stories ofthese scientists who seek to
(06:40):
you know, prove or disprove.
You know the uh, the truth ofthe gospel Um, and it's
interesting, there's um, uh, ascientist that actually was was
brought up to me recently and II can't recall his name, um, but
if you, if, if you searchevidence for the resurrection,
(07:02):
you'll, you'll, you'll find,you'll find this guy.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
He's on the first page.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
He's a scientist who became a Christian and it's
interesting because he kind ofsays that the there's sort of.
Well, let me just say thisthere's going back to the case
for Christ, right.
Going back to the case forChrist, there's the sort of
biblical slash, historical slash, scientific case for Christ,
(07:31):
right.
And then there's the personaltestimony right Case for Christ.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
His personal testimony or ours?
Ours.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
How we have experienced God in our lives.
And so for me, I just think ofit in those two.
Maybe probably anoversimplification, but there
are three historical claims,which are biblical of course,
that are typically looked at orsummarized when there's a
(08:03):
discussion around the case thecase for christ or evidence
right so jesus was crucified anddied, which is pretty much
unrefuted I mean it's unrefutedright like yeah, there's enough
eyewitness, historically right,historic, there's, there's,
there's very few historians orscientists that would that, that
would say that, that, thatRight that a man named Jesus was
(08:27):
crucified by the Romans at thattime.
Right, yes, who?
Who claims to be God?
Yeah, Okay, Right.
Then there's the second one ishis body was buried in a tomb
that was found empty a few dayslater.
And then the third is theresurrection right that his
disciples, some of his disciples, experienced encounters with
(08:48):
who they believed to be hisnewly resurrected body, and you
know, all are backed byhistorical evidence and as well
as scholarly consensus, andtogether there's a compelling
case for the resurrection, butit it, you know the the the case
(09:10):
for Christ hinges on theresurrection.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Right, I was going to say, of the three, the last one
is the one that I think peoplewho don't want to believe or or
or don't believe hang their haton Right Right.
All right, I can get in withthat.
He was killed, okay, of coursehe was buried, everybody's
buried.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
But number three.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then there's you know, it'sinteresting because there's
these, these eyewitness accounts.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
A friend and foe.
Keep in mind Right People onboth sides.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
That's right, right, that's right and that has
(10:12):
carried through right to currentday, right here sitting.
Go, wow, like how I'veexperienced God and yet I mean
in very, very powerful ways, andand, and yet still have these
little crises of faith, right,and then I experienced God and I
have these, this crisis offaith, and I experienced God,
and I just watched you do therollercoaster right, it's like,
um, that's our real life, yes,but as as you look back, as I
(10:34):
look back, way back, and I go,oh my gosh, like the, the, the
miracle of my life just sittinghere, breathing, talking to you
right now.
It's a miracle.
And then you know the miraclesthat I've witnessed and that
(10:55):
we've witnessed, you know,throughout the last 30 plus
years walking with Jesus is mycase for Christ that I have to
often remind myself of to buildmy faith Right.
(11:17):
And and it's it's interestingfor me, you know, I'm a risk
taker and I have become, likehe's borderline, addicted to
seeing God move and experiencinghim in fresh new ways.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Because he does.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Right, you've been given little.
And here's the thing it's notjust, it's not simply the high
notes, the highlight reelsJesus' highlight reel, right,
it's a good one Of miracles butalso experiencing him in the low
(12:04):
lights, you know, in the mess,in the suffering, in the pain
and everything in between, andthe pain and everything in
between, all that coming to aplace where you know learning to
experience God in the mundane,like Brother Lawrence talks
about, right, and just in thesimplest, you know, quietest
(12:33):
moments, you know and and and,and, experiencing intimacy with
him, um and so I don't know.
Those are the things that cameto mind when you brought this
topic up.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I love the fact that it was made to be reflective
right, looking at the bigpicture.
I already talked about it,without any prompting from
either one of us.
I'm like, I'm 18 years and 30.
And it's a lifetime adventure.
I think what we're making clearmy truth is yes, I am believing
(13:04):
in some things that are headscratchers and that I don't
fully understand.
I admit it, there are parts ofthe story, you know.
You know I'm into the details.
I love the, the, thecelebrating his birth.
I know there are people thatwould ask me you believe that a
(13:25):
baby was born and this is thebackstory less than ideal
circumstances.
And then, 33 years later thebackstory, less than ideal
circumstances.
And then, 33 years later, youknow, and by the way, the baby
is born and then disappears offthe face of the earth, except
for one little, you know, 10year old.
He gets lost in the in thetemple, and then you don't hear
about him again for 20 years.
And there he is and suddenly,three years and he died and is
(13:48):
buried and comes back from thedead.
Yeah Right, I can hear it andI've read it.
I don't know that anyone hasspecifically asked me about it,
but I can understand why you'dhave some questions about that
story.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Well, yes, until you move outward from that story in
the book Right, back and forwardand look at the whole story.
From that story in the bookright Back and forward, and look
at the whole story.
You know the whole mission ofGod, right, and you know, all of
a sudden, and you start lookingat, you know creation, you
(14:28):
start looking at genealogy, youstart looking at the prophecies
and you start looking at theprophecies and you start looking
at the whole story and thekingdom coming back to earth and
all of a sudden it's a wholelot harder to say I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Right, and I couldn't agree with you more.
You're just making me giveanother shout out to the Bible
project, right.
Because, they say the wholestory, the whole biblical story,
from the first words of Genesisto the last of Revelation, is a
story that leads you to Jesus.
What I just did in 45 secondsfrom you know.
A baby is born and then there'sa resurrection and an ascension
(15:09):
, right.
So there's so much more to itand it's such a rich and
beautiful story.
If you're going to invest, Iwould shout out and say if
you're going to invest time infiguring out how things work in
the world, the Bible story is agreat one to invest some time in
.
Yeah, right, I, I.
You know how much I love justreading about the 360 details of
(15:33):
this story.
We've chosen to believe it.
Yeah, and it's a choice, sarge.
Yes, we've chosen to believethis and many don't.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, and then I mean not to get too far off track
here, but I Us Well, no, I justyes, it's a choice to
investigate, it's a choice tobelieve, and then there's a
choice regarding what that meansand how that.
(16:02):
What does that mean for me?
If I choose to believe, thenwhat should my life look like?
In other words, what are theimplications of that choice to
believe?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you're a child of God.
Now what?
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, and you know, that's the part for me that I've
just become.
You know, when you, when youmentioned making the case for
Christ, I'm like you know, likeI am, I've become very
passionate about joining God atwork and seeing people's faith
(16:39):
activated, because I think, inlarge part, most people who
profess to be followers of Jesus, their faith is not activated.
It's, it's, it's pretty, it'spretty quiet, it's under the
layers and under the radar, it'ssecondary to the life we live,
(17:03):
versus the, the reverse.
And and I don't know, you know,for me, at this point in my
life, I'm going man, know, youknow, for me, at this point in
my life, I'm going man.
There's a sense of urgency thatGod has put in my heart.
Say like nothing, nothing elsematters Nothing, zero, zilch,
(17:26):
zippo matters more.
So, what, so, so, what, so what?
And therein lies the crisis offaith.
For me, then, it's okay.
What does it mean to drop mynets?
What does it mean to take up mycross?
What does it mean, you know, asI read through the scriptures
(17:52):
and I go, okay, yeah, well,that's nice for them, right,
well, wait a minute.
Like what is God calling us toright now, current day?
He's given us the gift ofbreath.
We don't know how many we haveleft, so what?
What are we going to do withthem?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
And you have decided to take the action-oriented
approach, to the point where youmake life choices, to draw
yourself into areas,geographically speaking, for
myself, where God has me rightnow.
That is, you know, the choice Ihad to make.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He's brought me to a place in my faith where he has
said Sarge, because he calls meSarge.
Steve Arino, what are you goingto do, pal, stay long.
What are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
pal.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Stay long.
What are you going to do?
Is it just lip service?
Or are you going to really dropyour nets?
And you know, leave it allbehind and step out of the boat
and follow me, and, and, andthat's like, that's scary.
It's scary and, and you know, atthe same time, I'm jacked up
(19:20):
because I'm a risk taker, I'm aradical and that's.
You know like I love living onthe edge, but from a faith
perspective.
You know, listen, there's a,there's a whisper in my ear all
day, every day, going.
Are you out of your mind?
What are you doing?
Yeah, and not just a whisper inmy ear, but people in my life,
(19:43):
plenty of people.
You crazy.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Yeah, and and world in the enemy, Well, yeah, what are you doing
?
Yeah, and.
And world in the enemy?
Well, yeah, and.
And you know.
And then there's, you know,God's soft, still voice that
I've spent countless hoursleaning into attempting to hear,
you know.
But the enemy said oh, did youreally hear him say that, Just
(20:05):
like he did in the garden?
Right, how?
About that Is that really, youknow, I mean so anyway what do
you believe?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Can you stop Tell?
Tell everybody listen.
What do you believe?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I believe, uh, I believe that Jesus Christ was
born, died and resurrected forme personally and every other
single person individually, thathe died and rose again because
(20:48):
sin entered the world right andthere was no other way to come
to the Father but through thelife, death and resurrection of
Jesus Christ Great.
Come to the Father, but throughthe life, death and
resurrection of Jesus ChristGreat.
I believe, beyond that, thathe's faithful, he's just, he's
(21:09):
good, he cares deeply for us,knows us by every molecule and
chromosome and knit us togetherin our mother's womb.
That he's faithful, that he'strustworthy.
And those are really for meright now, those are really
(21:33):
critical beliefs.
Those are critical beliefs.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
I need to believe that right Like I need, to
believe that right, right Like Ineed to believe.
Yes, I feel it.
I can feel it coming from him.
And I love it.
Thank you, I wanted to cause Itook that opportunity earlier to
introduce why we're talkingabout this, so people know what
we believe and so much of thatstory I I have watched you and
watched you walk and talk andput your hands and feet and
(22:00):
mouth to work for God over theseyears.
Look, it's better together.
I just want people to know ifyou're going to try and figure
this all out by yourself.
I'm not saying you can't, andit is a very personal journey,
but it is so much more fruitfuland rich to do it with someone
(22:21):
who believes what you believe.
Yeah, and it find those people,please, it is.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, you're right, it's not impossible, but boy is
it tough.
I mean, I, I, you know, I hadzero biblical community or
connection when I came to faithin Christ through a stranger on
the street corner.
God bless him.
But he gave me a little, alittle Bible.
I went home and I read throughit.
I'm like I don't understandthis.
I have no idea what I'm readinghere.
What is this?
(22:46):
Just just reading the words andyou know, and it wasn't until
God placed me in community thatyou know, started to understand
a little bit more, grow, and sothrough that, I don't know, dude
, I get it.
Yeah, and I.
I was completely lost, eventhough I had been found by you
(23:08):
know, a stranger on a streetcorner.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Right, lost but found Completely lost.
No, I get it and I, I, Iremember, like it was yesterday,
because now I'm, I'm an adult.
Remember, just remember, justput on your.
If you're putting on yourglasses, I'm an adult.
And, of course, what man wantsto sit in a room and say, can
someone please explain this tome?
Because that was how I felt andwhat I did to offset it is what
(23:34):
you'd expect me to do is do Iwould get engaged and do
activities until I hoped someonewould explain some of the Bible
stories to me.
And then how does this fittogether and the things that I
take a little bit more forgranted today because I have
learned?
But this began for me comingfrom a all right, I realized I'm
(23:55):
not going to do this on my own.
I can only read so much andlisten to so many podcasts I
found friendships started askingsome questions and then some of
those answers, by the way, werelike no, I don't think that's
what it is.
And you go through this journeyand it's like just a quest to
(24:17):
learn and to understand, toabsorb some of these things we
find to be true today.
This is a journey of discoveryfor me every day and I love that
part of it.
Some of it comes from justbeing quiet and listening for
the voice.
Some of it comes from readingthe word.
Some of it comes from listeningto podcasts.
Some comes from talking to youand my other friends doing
(24:40):
devotionals together, things ofthat sort.
All of these enhance andincrease my faith to the point
where we two grown men with 110years on the planet together can
stand up and look anybody inthe eye and say we believe.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, and again I just want to.
I think it's important enoughto repeat, and that is it's one
thing to believe, but it's notenough.
It's not enough.
There are certainly words inthe Bible that talk about
(25:17):
believing, but when I look atthe words of Jesus over and over
and over and over again, youknow it, it, the, the, the
calling was to follow him.
So my point is it's it's onething to believe, right, it's
another thing to quote, unquotewe these are, these are words we
(25:41):
use culturally put your faithin, right.
What does that mean?
What means you're following himright right.
Um, you know um, in matthew 7,not everyone who says to me,
lord, lord, will enter thekingdom of heaven, but only
those who, only the one who doesthe will of my father in heaven
.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Um well, let me ask a question a different way, so
you can explain it for me tounderstand it, and I think
others will too.
Are you suggesting that we canhave the faith that we share
without saying we believe?
Like is belief not aprerequisite?
Like saying I believe in God,oh it is, it is.
It is you believe it is.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
It is Okay, so belief isn't unnecessary.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
No, it's better to believe.
It's just not the whole story,I think.
I think we unfortunately umbecause of the emphasis on God's
grace, which I'm a big believerin.
I believe in the grace of God.
Thank you, jesus.
Right His hand is in the air.
(26:55):
We, as the church, tend to justlive our lives as though our
belief in him doesn't reallymatter all that much.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
All right Now.
So I believe, now what?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
And I believe there are potentially eternal
implications.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I agree with that Right and the importance.
It goes back to what you weresaying about community, because
it goes back to the importanceof our actions over our words.
Right Right To to say I believesomething and act like I don't
is a big problem, big yeah.
(27:34):
And that's why I started out bysaying like so, what so then
what?
Because the, the, the.
And that's why I started out bysaying like so, what so then
what?
Because if you don't put someaction behind it, your words are
empty.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Faith without works is dead, amen.
Okay, so it's a long road forsome people just to get to.
I believe A long road 100%.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Okay, big step.
Yeah to I believe A long road.
100%, okay, big step, yeah.
If I'm in front of a personthat says, you know what I just
can't get, choose to follow him,allow your faith to be built,
(28:22):
then believe.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Okay, that's what the apostles did, because that's
right, that's what they did.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
They are a great example of that story, because
as I do, as I choose to followhim, what begins to happen is
I'm allowing God to change me asI follow him.
It's the following of him, it'sthe apprenticeship with him
that actually allows him tochange my heart, or invites him
(28:54):
to change my heart, my mind andmy way of life.
The more I choose to surrendermy life to Jesus which doesn't
it may start with belief, butdoesn't necessarily happen
through belief.
It happens through my actions.
I have to surrender.
So as I choose to surrender mylife to Jesus, the more I grow
in my relationship with him andlearn to trust in him, building
(29:19):
my belief.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Right, and while you're doing all of that, I have
to be sure at least I believethis, I hope you do there's a
supernatural part of this.
If it was just a process youhad to go through, for sure Okay
.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
All right, so it's totally supernatural.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
God's at work in this in ways I do not understand,
but I can tell you I have feltit.
I'm I'm holding my chest rightnow.
I have felt the power.
I have seen miracles I have.
I have watched men at work thatI trust and believe.
You're one of them, yeah, and Idon't understand it all the
time, and you know what?
(29:56):
I don't need to anymore.
Yeah, my desire to figure thisall out so it makes sense to me
is diminished every day.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
For sure, but there aren't.
I agree and I I stand with youin that, and at the same time,
there are some patterns thatwe've seen and experienced that
are almost undeniable, right, Imean like and experienced that
are almost undeniable right.
(30:27):
I mean, like the countlesspeople that have said, I've said
this on my knees in a state ofutter desperation, at 21 years
old, four years after, saying Ibelieve in you, jesus, and
praying a prayer of salvation onthat street corner and my life
being in shambles.
After that, four years later,on my knees in the street alone,
(30:50):
saying God, if you're real, ifyou're real now, is that
something that would be said bya man who believes God?
If you're real, yes, causewe're broken.
Like, prove it.
Yeah, take my life, challengeof God.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
And, and I've heard that so many times, I've heard
that sort of you know, and and Ithink like it's interesting,
right, it's like I believe, butI don't believe, but if, if, if,
and at the same time like I'mtalking to God, right, like.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I don't believe this doesn't make any sense at all,
but I'm talking to you, right,and that's the.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
You know this, this sort of like I've come to the
end of myself.
How about that?
I've come to the end of myself?
How about that?
I've come to the end of myself.
Dude, there's a whole episodeand a half.
I've got nothing Like place ofsurrender.
That's it.
It's, it's, it's, but it's thataction.
It's the.
I'm on my knees and I'm begging.
I'm begging Like take my life,show up, come into my life,
(31:56):
cause I life, because I prayedthis prayer four years ago and I
don't see you, I don't hear you, my life's a mess and I don't
understand why.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
And look what he's done and he shows up Funny and
he shows up and he does that foreach of us and it doesn't mean
he's going to solve all yourproblems.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
No, but what he says is now we can get started.
Yes, oh, here you are, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
You know I've been waiting for you.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Oh, I haven't shown up.
What have you been doing thelast four years so running?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
To close, in a world full of immediate answers, in a
world where, with a few flicksof your thumb oh boy, be careful
, right, you can get bad info, Iwould just say that can we
agree to invite people toexperience God through his word,
through community and friends?
Yeah, follow him, yeah, becausehe's worth believing in.
(32:51):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yes, amen, absolutely 100%.
Yeah, amen, absolutely 100%,and there's nothing that's even
remotely close to worth it.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Nothing and we have some life experience, so we're
not coming at this from you know, like we just woke up.
We have tested the waters ofwhat the world has to offer, and
for me, I would just say that Ifind my time close to God is
(33:30):
the best time, amen, and I likebeing with you, but you pale in
comparison to my God.
Amen, let's hope so my goodness, let's hope so.
So we have.
I think this could promoteother episodes and our
disclaimer Sarge.
We agree that we are nottrained theologians or
counselors or preachers.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
No, and if you ask me tomorrow I'll probably have
different answers.
I can't you know.
I got no.
I mean I'm kidding, but but Isay all this with, you know, a
childlike faith that's filledwith hope.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's, it's, it's that it's true.
His faithful love enduresforever.
Part of it is praying thatthat's true every day.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
It's filled with hope , Like I hope God continues to
show up Like I've seen you showup before.
Would you do it again?
Because like and I'm, as I,sort of hold my breath.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
That he's not going to do a 40 years in the desert
thing to you.
Yes, right, that's right.
I mean, that's real, it is, itis.
Oh, you're in for some quiettime.
Excuse me.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Right Twitch.
That's not what I had in mind.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
This is not what I had in mind, lord.
Can we look at this menu again,because I picked.
These are the columns I pickedfrom, and that wasn't it.
I'm not ready for some quiettime, but we enjoy our quiet
time with the Lord.
I enjoy my time with you.
It is great to sit with you andtalk.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
You too.
I think we should.
Another episode, perhaps next,but we should talk about because
I've had countless people askme in the last six months
because I've said things likeI've heard the Lord say this, or
God is calling me to this.
And I've had countless peoplewho are believers say what do
you mean by that?
How did you, how did you hearthat that's a good one and um,
(35:26):
and I'm like well, how much timedo you have?
So it's maybe another episode.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Let's do it so quick.
Shout out to Sean Ryan and hispodcast to.
Lee Strobel to Justin Camp andto you, my friend, because it's
just great, Great that we canstir all this up in a pot and
not have to go eat it right away, because you know it's part of
the sauce that we're making forChristmas.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
And I'll say this we sat in a room together doing the
Experiencing God study, rightby Henry Blackaby.
I don't know how many years agoit was probably 15 years ago
Easy, right, and here we are,right.
And I remember back then wekind of looked at each other
Like we'd look down at the book.
We didn't know each other allthat well.
We looked at each other and I'mlike, uh, how's this work again
(36:11):
, you know?
And so like, here here we are,you know, having experienced God
in such enormously powerful andimpactful ways.
But we did, we sought it out.
We sat in that room and said,like well, experiencing God, I
want to experience God.
How do you experience God?
What does that look like?
Right, start today.
And yeah, so pick up one ofthose books.
(36:32):
We're going to have RichardBlackaby on, I think.
I hope so, henry's son, I hopeand we'll maybe talk about that.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Awesome.
Thank you, brother.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
God bless you Peace.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Two friends for 20 years, speaking their truth
about who Jesus is to them andwhy they want everyone to know
him.
I think that speaks to so manygood things.
First and most importantly,jesus died on that cross for you
.
Don't let that gift of eternityin heaven slip through your
fingers.
Second, that conversation isexactly what you get when two
(37:08):
brothers make a purpose-filleddecision to be authentic with
each other, even after 20 years.
They're wrestling through whatthey believe, how they got there
and everything in between.
They're wrestling through whatthey believe, how they got there
and everything in between.
Lastly, your relationship withGod is between you and God.
Don't let anyone tell you anydifferent.
He grabs hold of your heart andreveals to you his saving grace
(37:32):
.
I think that process is like afingerprint and there are no two
that are the same.
We all have to respect thatspace, and he made you and me
and everyone else relationalbeings.
We can survive when we arealone, but we can thrive when we
(37:54):
are in authentic community withother brothers.
For the math wizards out therethat don't like word problems,
god plus you equals salvation.
God plus you plus authenticrelationships equals an abundant
life that includes salvation.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
(38:14):
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
In Jesus' name amen.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to theFoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(38:49):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
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