December 27, 2024 • 33 mins
Have you ever wondered what terms and conditions govern your relationship with the divine? We often mindlessly accept the T's and C's in our digital lives, but when it comes to faith, things are refreshingly different. This episode of Foxhole Symphony unravels the liberating truth that God's love comes without strings attached. Join us as we journey through this thought-provoking discussion, reminiscing about the simplicity of a handshake deal and exploring how grace and authenticity define our spiritual connections, free from human-imposed conditions.
In a world where quid pro quo is the norm, maintaining a selfless spirit can be a Herculean task. Listen as we share personal anecdotes about the challenges of offering unconditional love and service. Whether it's participating in a meal-packing initiative or confronting our own judgmental tendencies, we delve into the essence of true faith and trust. Expect to be moved by stories of kindness that echo the profound impact of unseen service, all while pondering the expectations we sometimes place on divine relationships.
Shifting gears, we take a closer look at biblical commandments, not as rigid rules but as guiding life principles. Through personal reflections, we highlight how scriptures like the Ten Commandments, Psalms, and Proverbs can transform our lives, nurturing love and wisdom. This episode encourages compassion and humility, urging listeners to focus on kindness and intention in every interaction. We wrap up with a heartfelt prayer, inviting you to engage with our community and explore the eternal significance of your spiritual commitments.
We have BIG plans at Foxhole Symphony and sure could use your financial support. Would you prayerfully consider a small monthly contribution to support us in our mission to catalyze transformation in the hearts of men? Support Our Mission
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole and they're talking
terms and conditions.
Do me a favor I'm going to needyou to hit accept to continue,
(00:53):
not here.
No T's and C's.
In the foxhole, get comfortable, open your notes app and let's
get started.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with Mark.
How are you brother?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I am better than I deserve.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes you are, yes you are.
Was that truer words were neverspoken?
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, speaking of getting whatwe deserve there are.
You know, in the business world, you, you and I, you and I both
deal with this on a regularbasis.
(01:30):
I would say every day, t's andc's, t's and c's t's and c's
terms and conditions.
Baby said right, all right.
I just I just this week gotlobbed over the wall here.
You know, here's our t's andc's.
We need to review for you know,for all our customers for next
year.
Like what?
Why am I getting this right?
(01:50):
Why do we need to review themevery year?
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
right.
What's wrong with last year's?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
right.
Do we have to do this?
Did something come up?
Did somebody bring something up?
Did we, you know?
And?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
and whose idea was this right?
Whose idea was to actually likethere's a document, terms or a
section.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Shouldn't an attorney review these?
Why am I reviewing?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
them Exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, and you know, and so, um, yeah, there's terms
and conditions for everything,right?
Most of the time, you don'teven get to see him.
Most of the times, if you doget to see him, you don't read
them, right?
Think about the last time yougot a mortgage or refried your,
refried your, uh alone, right?
I mean, there's, there's pagesand pages, and pages and pages,
and it's like you know, likeyou're like, yeah, let me, let
(02:31):
me just sign here where do Isign?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
forget it.
How about just upgrading youriphone?
Hey, tomorrow night youriphone's going to upgrade.
Do you accept the tourism?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
sure, but only you hit the button exactly if
they're reading them right onpage if you listen to the voxel
sympathy podcast and you readevery word of any terms and
conditions, we want to hear fromyou.
Yes, because I don't think thatperson exists right no unless
you're an attorney and you'rereading, you're getting paid to
read it.
Yeah, I, I just don't think itis and and so, and you know, I
(03:01):
think back to like my dad, youknow, like my dad's era growing
up, like, were they?
Did they have T's and C's?
Were there terms and conditionsor was it like a?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
handshake.
It was a handshake.
By the way, I know both peoplewho listen to our podcast and
neither one knows the T's andC's.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Exactly, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But remember the good old days of a handshake.
I remember my dad making deals,maybe not buying a car, but in
many, in many ways.
You know, you come up a littleshort at the grocery store.
Really, there was an AMP,someone came up short and I knew
them from town.
I'm at the register.
It's like you know, come backlater.
(03:40):
Come back tomorrow, bring a fewcoupons, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Could you imagine today They'd be like put the
cart right over there Right,lock them up, not taking
anything Right.
So yeah, and, and, and, ofcourse, you know our society has
become so, so litigious and soeverything's like.
I mean, you know, more lawyers,more paper, more words, more
you know, and now everything'sdigital, right.
So now it's like you can't,even.
(04:05):
You can't.
You know, I actually, as acustomer, a business customer,
with a vendor, about a couple ofyears ago, I was told oh no, no
, no, you know, you agreed toXYZ, to X, y, z, and it, it.
(04:30):
It was literally a contractualuh term extension, within the
terms and conditions that theycould change the term of the
agreement at any given time.
It was like are you kidding me?
Buried in hundreds of pages ofdigital content on a hidden page
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
A hidden page.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Could you imagine?
And so now I mean, it's likeit's not, they don't even, you
don't even have to be providedit, it's just like you know, do
you agree to the terms andconditions that live at this URL
somewhere?
Right, and you know, look out.
I mean look out because thereare implications.
So the question is this what'sthe question?
Here's the question is this?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
What's the question?
Here's the question what areGod's?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
terms and conditions for us.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
How many hours you got Trick question?
Trick question.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah right, exactly, and it's not multiple choice,
it's not multiple choice.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
All right, let's tell the answer, let's do it, let's
do Jeopardy this is going to bethe shortest podcast episode
we've ever done.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Right, it's going to be four minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Who?
Here you go, let's do it inJeopardy form you ready.
I'm Alex Trebek, okay, okay.
Who does not put any terms andconditions on his relationship
with you.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, is it God?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Who is God his?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
relationship with you .
Yeah, is it god?
Who is god?
Who is god?
Yep, none.
Well, let's talk.
I'm sorry, I've got to tellwhat there are.
There were lots of terms andconditions, right, oh, the law,
the law.
There were tons of terms,conditions and they, and you
know, and it all got torn up.
It got torn up.
I mean nothing, they're still.
They're still there for a lifeof flourishing, of course, right
.
The ten commandments right,like they were given to us, not
to constrain us but to lead tofreedom.
I mean, listen, they're stillthere for a life of flourishing.
Of course, right, the TenCommandments right, like they
were given to us, not toconstrain us but to lead to
freedom, right, and so, just inits simplest form, the terms and
(06:12):
conditions.
But at the end of the day, youknow, the redeeming work of
Jesus on the cross, I mean,essentially, you know, I don't
want to say tore them up, that'sprobably not the right way to
say it, but, you know, canceledout.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Wash them clean the blood of Jesus washed them clean
.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Canceled out the punishment for not following the
terms and conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right, and those T's and C's.
Bro, this might just be me.
I don't mean to sound heretical, but I've sat down and reading
the Old Testament and how manytimes I imagine God just sitting
there with his arms foldedacross his chest, shaking his
head, going Oy, I made you,you're in my image, oh my Lord.
(06:56):
He wouldn't say oh my Lord, ohmy Lord, oh myself, oh myself.
Right, god's looking at us inmidst of his creation and go
through the Bible, start rightin the beginning, work your way
to the prophets, right up toMalachi, before you get saved.
In the New Testament, prophetafter prophet is saying he's
(07:18):
angry, he's angry with you,right, jeremiah Ezekiel, on and
on and on.
Each one is saying God reallyloves you and really wants you
to have this territory and thisis his gift to you.
But you're screwing this up.
Stop, what are you doing?
And over and over, the humanelement in this story, from the
(07:39):
first believers right, firstbelievers right, the ancient,
ancient Hebrew believers rightto today, me, mark Vesper,
broken, right or bent, maybe notbroken, but still.
My sinful nature gets in the wayand I need to be reminded when
I'm feeling guilty and I'mfeeling like I can't even look
(08:02):
at myself in the mirror that Iremember all the people who came
before me, all the wonderful,the great heroes of the Bible
and all the regular humans.
All of us have a God who saysall right, I'm going to remind
you again.
I covered you with the blood ofmy son and you're good, we're
(08:23):
good.
Now, pick yourself up, stopsinning, repent, turn away from
your sin, turn towards me.
It's clean.
I go through a lot of days, bro, where I don't let that sink in
, that message of there are noterms, there are no conditions.
I have to be clear.
(08:45):
I'm saying this to myself.
I'm.
I don't want you to sin, mark.
Stop sinning, but if and whenyou do, it's paid for.
That's a tough reality forsomeone who doesn't have a
spiritual foundation, don't youthink?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Oh my gosh, yes, yeah , and so you know, coming off of
that as a foundation for therest of our lives, right,
particularly those of us whohave experienced and embraced
God's grace, right.
What does that mean for us inthe rest of our life, in the
(09:28):
rest of our relationships?
Right, and the rest of ourrelationships right, and whether
it be in the business world, inour personal relationships, in
our marriage, our relationshipwith our kids, those closest to
us, friends, family, whateverright, how many terms and
conditions do we have?
Right, for you know that thepeople in our lives need to
abide by right In order to earnour grace and approval and
(09:53):
affirmation.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Long list.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, that's not a rhetoricalquestion.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's not a rhetorical question, no it shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, I'm sorry it should not be a rhetorical
question.
I have a judgmental spirit.
I have admitted that on thepodcast before.
It's something I pray against.
The enemy has a field day.
You know those T's and C's ofquid pro quo.
(10:23):
My quid pro quoness is high,too high, and I'm not talking
about, you know, loaning thelawnmower quid pro quo.
You know Doing unto others,loving those who hurt you, and
you know loving strangers,loving your enemies, treating
people with kindness regardless.
That's the truth.
Is that's hard for me topractice in my home.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, the quid pro quo sums it up well, right,
what's the what's?
What's the agenda?
What do what do you know?
What do I get?
What's in it for me?
What do I need?
Right, Me, me, me, me, me, me,me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
monster, Right, Uh, great, greatcomedian, Brian Regan did a bit
(11:05):
on the me monster, Hysterical.
If you haven't seen it, look itup YouTube.
It Got it.
But that's what you know,that's, it's.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
Right, it is Versus that outward, that outward, just servants,
heart serving, serving, serving,serving, serving, giving,
(11:30):
giving giving giving and it'slike you know what I'm tired of
giving Right, Well, Tired ofgetting tired of getting taken
advantage of.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's it.
You just took the words rightout of my mouth.
We're tired of giving becauseyou start measuring how you got
back right, yeah.
And then you say, well, I gavethere, but there was no fruit.
And that's when I am giving Iam looking for fruit.
That's generally how I operate.
I'm going to say, okay, youknow, I'm going to give my time,
(11:54):
talents, treasures, money,whatever, and I hope for some
fruit to be born there.
But I'm going to give you anexample.
You can relate to you, and Ihad the incredible joy to do
this feed the need thing.
Right, the pinky is right here,here's pinky.
And so feed the need.
And for everyone who doesn'tknow listening, we just both
(12:17):
belong to a church in leadershipand you can pack meals in
Ziploc bags and it would be riceand soy powder and some veggies
, dehydrated veggies.
You pack them, you know, in asix ounce, seven ounce Ziploc,
put them in a box, seal it up,put it on a pallet onto a truck,
off to the airport shipping andoff it goes around the world to
(12:38):
feed starving people with afoundational meal.
Right, we're not talking steakand eggs, we're just talking a
rice-based, good, nutritionalmeal.
And we had a chance to do thatfor five years in a row at a
church and it got bigger andbigger.
Right, we did a few meals oneyear.
Five years later we packed 2million meals, yeah, sent it out
all over the world, right, andultimately had this great
(13:01):
opportunity and Sarge.
It took me all five years tounderstand.
I would never see anyone eatingthat meal ever.
I'd never know what the netresult.
What was the ROI?
I'm a big ROI guy.
What's the return on myinvestment?
Well, I shut down my life tohelp support those events and
(13:26):
you and my wife were on amissions team in Zimbabwe's
Africa.
Is it South Africa or Africa?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It was Zimbabwe's Africa.
Is it South Africa or?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Africa.
It was Zimbabwe Africa, okay,zimbabwe Africa.
And you walked into a hospitalor a place where they there were
kids with encephalitis, withwater on the brain and such and
so and apparently got into thekitchen and there were feed the
need, boxes of meals there, andI believe right now, with
goosebumps all over my arms,that that was my God telling my
(13:57):
wife to tell me, mark, I've seenthe ROI here.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It's right here.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
There are sick people half a world away eating the
Ziploc bags that you packed andshipped here.
So that's my example.
Is God?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
will.
It was unbelievable.
I mean, you just told thatstory in like seven seconds.
It was, and it is like anunbelievable story and turn of
events but absolutely, 100%, amiracle and really one of those
God winks.
That's like I got you Right andit's just incredible.
I mean just incredible.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
God saying don't, don't, mark, fear not, right,
mark, you can trust me, mark,yeah, this, this, this is good.
Go keep giving.
And this comes back to yourearlier point of why I was tired
of giving.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, Well, and you bring up a good point, right
Cause we, you know, we've talkedabout, you know, the the terms
and conditions that God's gracetoward the terms and conditions
on us.
We've talked about the termsand conditions we have for, you
know, for others, um, or evenfor ourselves, right that we
place on ourselves, um, butthere's also and you just kind
(15:12):
of referenced it is, you know,as you talk about trusting in
God, is the terms and conditionswe put place on God right?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's a bad list.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, we'll edit this out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead, you got to go there.
We've committed to doing this.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Listen, there's just there's.
There's countless Well likethere, we've committed to doing
this.
Listen, there's just there's.
There's countless Well like,just show me, just show me.
Well, just tell me one moretime.
Well, just convince me, well,just prove to me.
I mean like all the things thatare the opposite of faith,
right, all the things that arethe opposite of truly, you know,
stepping out on the water andtrusting God.
And, um man, you know, like,yeah, guilty, guilty as charged.
(15:53):
I mean you know, and and youknow, and, quite frankly, I mean
the enemy can have a field dayon on me in that regard, like,
oh, you didn't, you don't reallythink he said that, do you?
That was just your imagination,that was your voice, not his
right.
Yeah, those are just somecoincidences that kind of lined
(16:16):
up just perfectly.
That's not God, you know.
I mean just you know all theserationalizations right Over and
over and over.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Can you believe?
In the morning I pray to thankmy God for every good day that I
believe in trust in him.
Yet I question him every day.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And then, every now and then, you rescue me
unwittingly by saying I'mhearing from God and he's saying
, whether it's about career,it's about kids, it's about
finances, it's about travel, anynumber of things.
You'll often say to me I feellike I'm hearing from God on
this, and what I'm hearing is,and I think to myself at that
moment I'm so happy he said that.
(17:02):
Like really, that touches meand warms me.
I'm like all right, mark, slowdown, quiet, stop the noise,
quiet yourself.
You too can hear from God.
And sometimes it's a box ofZiploc bags filled with rice.
(17:24):
Yep, I mean, I'm happy God canhit me with a two by four, it's
okay.
I don't mind the mule treatmentif he needs to get my attention
, I really don't.
But I think we can agree thatour Lord is kind and gentle and
loving.
He says faithful love enduresforever.
You know how I feel about thatphrase, Psalm 138, his faithful
love endures forever.
(17:44):
And that's how he treats uslike we are sheep and takes good
care of us.
I'm kidding about the two byfour, the terms from my father
in heaven is love, that's theterm, that's the condition, it's
a heart condition, literally.
(18:04):
Yeah, yep, founded in love,love so strong, you'll sacrifice
your son to make sure it neverends.
This relationship is unending.
How many things in your lifecan you say that about Love of
(18:25):
your wife, right?
So many conditional things inour life, but this relationship
founded in love never ends.
Yeah, you get it, you do.
It comes with the package.
I remember you starting yourwalk and standing on street
(18:46):
corners with Tramp and otherpeople and telling people about
the word and what they couldhave.
They, too, you can share inthis gift.
This is what the Bible says.
Here's right.
I'm holding my hand up, likehere.
This is what's there for youthe passion right that you have
and people don't know or theydon't understand it's.
(19:06):
It is hard to understand.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm not talking about , I don't want to get into a
great dissertation on the rightyou know, the life, the birth of
our our savior and his deathand resurrection.
That's not, that doesn't needto be where this conversation
goes, but I think we have tostand up for how strongly we
believe that what we are talkingabout god's lack of terms and
(19:31):
conditions are available toeveryone.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And and just to again, just toreiterate where we started, that
you know there are, uh, thereare guidelines, right, there's,
there's guidelines for aflourishing life that God set
out.
Those are his terms andconditions, and when we follow
(19:58):
them we get to enjoy theblessing of flourishing right,
because that's God's design.
And when we screw up and wedon't, right, there's grace and
love and forgiveness.
And so you know, this is not tosay that they don't matter,
(20:21):
right.
I mean the guidelines matter.
You know the terms andconditions matter, matter
greatly, right, but it's notperformance-based.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
No, and I want to make sure that's clear.
You brought up a good point,but it's not performance-based.
No, and I want to make surethat's clear.
You brought up a good point.
I wasn't thinking of goingthere, but I do not believe the
Ten Commandments are terms andconditions provided by God.
They're commandments, they'renot a suggestion.
Right, in order for me to loveyou, you need to know.
Right, you should not kill.
Yeah, I don't even want to gointo it.
(20:51):
That's not a term and condition.
Jesus came to fulfill the law.
The Bible's very clear aboutthis.
Right.
He's not in lieu of the law orsaying the law is bad.
He's fulfilling those promisesand it's a new promise founded
in love.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, baby,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Man get cooking on this one.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah, Terms and conditions, and yeah, it's
interesting.
We're talking about theguidelines and been digging into
the Proverbs, about, uh,praying through the Psalms and,
um, you know, more recently I'vebeen spending time and reading
(21:40):
through the Proverbs and, uh,you know totally, totally
different, right, I mean totallytotally different.
Um, you know the Psalms and andand Proverbs, um, and, of
course, the Psalms and Proverbsand, of course, the Psalms are
founded in praise and worship ofGod and the Proverbs being
(22:03):
these guidelines, right, thewisdom for a life well lived, a
life of flourishing, right?
And it's so interesting because, again, like, are they terms
and conditions?
Right?
Like, you know, it's just, it'sit's, but you know, you read
through them and you go, oh man,like, yeah, that's, uh, that's
(22:27):
rich baby, as, as our friendBrian would say, that's rich,
that's rich, you know so good,Uh, probably should have spent
more time reading through theProverbs as a young man and and
and being sensitive to andpaying more attention to them
and um, yeah, you have to wantto do it right.
(22:48):
Yeah, you know, or at leastasking God to do it Like.
Yeah, Like, give me what I needto do this, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Or at least asking God to do it Like yeah, give me
what I need to do this, as withso many things in life, in order
to embrace different parts ofthe Bible, be it Psalms or
Proverbs or any place else youfeel comfortable and are
enjoying.
It's almost a necessity thatGod anoint someone to tell you,
someone you trust, to say to youhey, this is a good place to
(23:12):
spend some time.
Right, you don't get it as notest grade, but it's valuable
for you to invest here.
And that's in many cases.
We do that when we're buyingcars or going shopping and for a
lot of things.
Someone says to you hey, haveyou tried?
We do it with TV shows andstreaming.
Did you see this app, thischannel, this?
Somebody says it to you thatyou think, oh, they're pretty
(23:34):
reasonable, they're sane.
You know, I'll take a look atthat.
And the same is true for theBible.
We have so many examples of aredemptive God where humans get
involved.
All of a sudden, things becomemessy.
That, you know it's.
One of my laments is, ifthere's humans involved, it's
(23:55):
probably going to be messy atsome stage or another, and and
it is but we are redeemed overand over.
There's there's evidence ofthat and I don't even want to
give it away.
There are some great Biblestories about, you know, the
brokenness.
Start with the 12 disciples.
Yeah, there's not a saint amongthem.
(24:15):
You know, not one.
No, and each one, you know eachone.
Decided that they felt sostrongly about their
relationship with their saviorthat they gave their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
That's.
Come on, man, it's a heck of astory.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You can't make it up Exactly and just like where you
started.
Man, the heroes of the faithtake solace in the disasters
that those men were.
You know, I mean just you know.
I mean by you know sinfulstandards.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
By any measure, yeah.
Peter, you need more fish topay your taxes.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'll be right back, Peter you need more fish to pay
your taxes.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'll be right back, oh my goodness, david, a man
after all heart, goodness Right,Forget it.
So I'm thinking about this isfor me.
Again, I'll speak for myself.
Only I am guilty of holdingpeople to a standard that I
(25:17):
don't meet myself In my applyingterms and conditions to
relationships with friends, withco-workers, with neighbors,
with, etc.
Do watch myself and catchmyself and warn myself.
(25:39):
Stop myself from holding peopleto a standard that I don't meet
, and there's clearly ahypocrisy in that.
There's pride in that I havemade positive steps in that.
But that was an area I reallyhad to focus.
So I think we usually talkabout something practical here.
That requires an inventory,that requires me to stop and
just not let my emotions get inthe way of what God might be up
(26:03):
to, of not turning somebody awaybecause they don't meet my
standards, they don't meet myterms and conditions, and stop
and say, well, you don't meetyour terms and conditions.
You know and I I don't do thatoften enough, but it's a really
important cleansing for me is totry and keep my focus on
(26:27):
fruitful things, things thatbear good biblical fruit.
Stay there.
If I find myself in that spot,generally I'm treating people
better.
I'm erasing my terms andconditions list.
That's just me.
Do you have a way of thinkingabout how you treat other people
?
And this is when you meetsomeone and how you treat them
right off the bat.
(26:50):
Is there a Sarge?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
standard?
You know there isn't.
I mean, I think you know muchlike you.
You know your mission, you knowspeaking about being present,
right?
Yeah, my mission is similar inthat regard right, listening
intently, respondingcompassionately.
And so, man, it's all over themap.
It really depends on my stateof being, my heart, my mind, my
(27:14):
circumstances, what's going onin my life, and so,
unfortunately, it's all over themap.
But at my best, I be thinkingabout how I'm going to respond
when others are, are thinkingand just just listening, and you
(27:39):
know, and seeking to understand, and and then take the time to
craft a response, and thatchanges everything, to create
that pause.
That's a game changer.
It's a game changer becauseotherwise, yeah, like you, right
, like you know, the ABCs alwaysbe closing right, always be
like you, right, like you know,the ABCs always be closing right
, always be closing Right.
So you're, you know you're asales guy.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Taking my sales story , Always be closing right.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Chapter two yeah, so, uh, you know the quid pro quo
what can I, what do I deserve,what can I get out of it?
What's you know?
You know I've been wronged.
Right, justice needs to beserved.
What can I get at Like, what doI, what am I getting Right and
um, Is my hidden agenda.
Yeah, right, or just agenda.
What's my agenda, right Versus?
(28:22):
Just loving connection, lovingauthentic connection and um, if,
if our agenda is lovingauthentic connection um, a, um,
100 of the time, could youimagine that that's our god
change, that's our god?
Yeah, loving authenticconnection 100 of the time.
(28:42):
So you know, make that ouragenda today.
May we make that our agendatoday and every day.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That is our term.
That's our term.
That's it.
Loving authentic connectionsthat's our term.
No conditions I love it, noconditions, I love it.
Well, I'd like to close bysimply saying that there's this
idea.
First of all, we gave away theanswer, so we just want everyone
to acknowledge the fact that wewere not challenging you any
(29:13):
more than we're challengingourselves.
We thought about for about 30seconds about what were God's
terms, and so we both got thatone right.
But I also I want to remindmyself and remind you, sarge,
this type of attitude of noterms and conditions, with
unconditional love, lovingauthentic connection starts at
(29:33):
home.
So I want to invite everybodylistening to go hug the people
that are closest to them.
Now, that's appropriate, andwhen you get home, if you're not
there, that we start.
There we all start.
We have this fresh start right.
We've had an election, we'vegot some new ideas, there's new
(29:54):
things happening here in andaround us.
We have this fresh start right.
We've had an election, we'vegot some new ideas, there's new
things happening here in andaround us, and maybe we just
continue that momentum andevolve our relationships right
with the people we love the most, the people we are with the
most that we want to be with,the most, at least, unless
you're a workaholic.
But let's start there.
Let's agree to loveunconditionally at home, to the
(30:17):
point where the people aroundyou going what's going on?
What, what happened to you?
And the answer is you got.
You got some love.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah Right Amen brother.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Before you go, I just want to let you know.
While I may not be spot on, Ithink it's appropriate to say
this episode will be probablynumber 80, 81, 80, or in the 80s
since we started.
It also is precariously closeto our very first episode, which
was November 24th of 2021.
(30:52):
Episode which was November 24thof 2021.
So this might not be again onthe day, but a three-year
anniversary is going to come andgo right Right near
Thanksgiving, when you and Istarted this three years ago.
So I want you to know it's forcongratulations on our
three-year anniversary.
I love you and I love doingthis with you, and 80 episodes
later, I'm still happy doing itwith you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Happy anniversary I've got some terms and
conditions for my 2025 contract.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's all I have to say.
Great to see you, bro.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I want to double my pay.
I'm out.
My pay doubled or else.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I can agree to that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Zero.
Wait a second.
No, wait, no, not double.
Hang on.
I got to do the math again.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Back up.
Yeah, get out your abacus.
Thanks bro.
Good God bless you, bro, youtoo, peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I think about how this conversation got started,
specifically when Mark remindedus that we never really spend
time looking at the words inthose T's and C's.
We hit, accept and we keep itmoving forward, and I know that
that's true for me.
My takeaway from this time withthe guys is this when we are
faced with agreements orrelationships, we must consider
(32:07):
them carefully, understand themand the weight that they carry.
You know, when I'm downloadingthe latest version of an app
I've been using for the lastfive years, well, it's a $1.99
investment and if I have topivot to a new app, the delete
button is always available.
But when I consider the factthat I have a temporary body
(32:28):
that's housing an eternal soul,well, that gets heavy real quick
.
I'm spending time to understandmy options and the options for
the people I love.
I believe God has given us hisword to reveal who he is, who we
are, the plan to bridge thechasm that separates us and how
(32:50):
to gain access to that bridge.
I don't want to read his word,I want to marinate in it.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
(33:11):
only you can do, in Jesus nameAmen.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to thefoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcast.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(33:37):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole and they're talking
terms and conditions.
Do me a favor I'm going to needyou to hit accept to continue,
(00:53):
not here.
No T's and C's.
In the foxhole, get comfortable, open your notes app and let's
get started.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with Mark.
How are you brother?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I am better than I deserve.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yes you are, yes you are.
Was that truer words were neverspoken?
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, speaking of getting whatwe deserve there are.
You know, in the business world, you, you and I, you and I both
deal with this on a regularbasis.
(01:30):
I would say every day, t's andc's, t's and c's t's and c's
terms and conditions.
Baby said right, all right.
I just I just this week gotlobbed over the wall here.
You know, here's our t's andc's.
We need to review for you know,for all our customers for next
year.
Like what?
Why am I getting this right?
(01:50):
Why do we need to review themevery year?
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
right.
What's wrong with last year's?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
right.
Do we have to do this?
Did something come up?
Did somebody bring something up?
Did we, you know?
And?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
and whose idea was this right?
Whose idea was to actually likethere's a document, terms or a
section.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Shouldn't an attorney review these?
Why am I reviewing?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
them Exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right, and you know, and so, um, yeah, there's terms
and conditions for everything,right?
Most of the time, you don'teven get to see him.
Most of the times, if you doget to see him, you don't read
them, right?
Think about the last time yougot a mortgage or refried your,
refried your, uh alone, right?
I mean, there's, there's pagesand pages, and pages and pages,
and it's like you know, likeyou're like, yeah, let me, let
(02:31):
me just sign here where do Isign?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
forget it.
How about just upgrading youriphone?
Hey, tomorrow night youriphone's going to upgrade.
Do you accept the tourism?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
sure, but only you hit the button exactly if
they're reading them right onpage if you listen to the voxel
sympathy podcast and you readevery word of any terms and
conditions, we want to hear fromyou.
Yes, because I don't think thatperson exists right no unless
you're an attorney and you'rereading, you're getting paid to
read it.
Yeah, I, I just don't think itis and and so, and you know, I
(03:01):
think back to like my dad, youknow, like my dad's era growing
up, like, were they?
Did they have T's and C's?
Were there terms and conditionsor was it like a?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
handshake.
It was a handshake.
By the way, I know both peoplewho listen to our podcast and
neither one knows the T's andC's.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Exactly, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
But remember the good old days of a handshake.
I remember my dad making deals,maybe not buying a car, but in
many, in many ways.
You know, you come up a littleshort at the grocery store.
Really, there was an AMP,someone came up short and I knew
them from town.
I'm at the register.
It's like you know, come backlater.
(03:40):
Come back tomorrow, bring a fewcoupons, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Could you imagine today They'd be like put the
cart right over there Right,lock them up, not taking
anything Right.
So yeah, and, and, and, ofcourse, you know our society has
become so, so litigious and soeverything's like.
I mean, you know, more lawyers,more paper, more words, more
you know, and now everything'sdigital, right.
So now it's like you can't,even.
(04:05):
You can't.
You know, I actually, as acustomer, a business customer,
with a vendor, about a couple ofyears ago, I was told oh no, no
, no, you know, you agreed toXYZ, to X, y, z, and it, it.
(04:30):
It was literally a contractualuh term extension, within the
terms and conditions that theycould change the term of the
agreement at any given time.
It was like are you kidding me?
Buried in hundreds of pages ofdigital content on a hidden page
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
A hidden page.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Could you imagine?
And so now I mean, it's likeit's not, they don't even, you
don't even have to be providedit, it's just like you know, do
you agree to the terms andconditions that live at this URL
somewhere?
Right, and you know, look out.
I mean look out because thereare implications.
So the question is this what'sthe question?
Here's the question is this?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
What's the question?
Here's the question what areGod's?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
terms and conditions for us.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
How many hours you got Trick question?
Trick question.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah right, exactly, and it's not multiple choice,
it's not multiple choice.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
All right, let's tell the answer, let's do it, let's
do Jeopardy this is going to bethe shortest podcast episode
we've ever done.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Right, it's going to be four minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Who?
Here you go, let's do it inJeopardy form you ready.
I'm Alex Trebek, okay, okay.
Who does not put any terms andconditions on his relationship
with you.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, is it God?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Who is God his?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
relationship with you .
Yeah, is it god?
Who is god?
Who is god?
Yep, none.
Well, let's talk.
I'm sorry, I've got to tellwhat there are.
There were lots of terms andconditions, right, oh, the law,
the law.
There were tons of terms,conditions and they, and you
know, and it all got torn up.
It got torn up.
I mean nothing, they're still.
They're still there for a lifeof flourishing, of course, right
.
The ten commandments right,like they were given to us, not
to constrain us but to lead tofreedom.
I mean, listen, they're stillthere for a life of flourishing.
Of course, right, the TenCommandments right, like they
were given to us, not toconstrain us but to lead to
freedom, right, and so, just inits simplest form, the terms and
(06:12):
conditions.
But at the end of the day, youknow, the redeeming work of
Jesus on the cross, I mean,essentially, you know, I don't
want to say tore them up, that'sprobably not the right way to
say it, but, you know, canceledout.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Wash them clean the blood of Jesus washed them clean
.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Canceled out the punishment for not following the
terms and conditions.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right, and those T's and C's.
Bro, this might just be me.
I don't mean to sound heretical, but I've sat down and reading
the Old Testament and how manytimes I imagine God just sitting
there with his arms foldedacross his chest, shaking his
head, going Oy, I made you,you're in my image, oh my Lord.
(06:56):
He wouldn't say oh my Lord, ohmy Lord, oh myself, oh myself.
Right, god's looking at us inmidst of his creation and go
through the Bible, start rightin the beginning, work your way
to the prophets, right up toMalachi, before you get saved.
In the New Testament, prophetafter prophet is saying he's
(07:18):
angry, he's angry with you,right, jeremiah Ezekiel, on and
on and on.
Each one is saying God reallyloves you and really wants you
to have this territory and thisis his gift to you.
But you're screwing this up.
Stop, what are you doing?
And over and over, the humanelement in this story, from the
(07:39):
first believers right, firstbelievers right, the ancient,
ancient Hebrew believers rightto today, me, mark Vesper,
broken, right or bent, maybe notbroken, but still.
My sinful nature gets in the wayand I need to be reminded when
I'm feeling guilty and I'mfeeling like I can't even look
(08:02):
at myself in the mirror that Iremember all the people who came
before me, all the wonderful,the great heroes of the Bible
and all the regular humans.
All of us have a God who saysall right, I'm going to remind
you again.
I covered you with the blood ofmy son and you're good, we're
(08:23):
good.
Now, pick yourself up, stopsinning, repent, turn away from
your sin, turn towards me.
It's clean.
I go through a lot of days, bro, where I don't let that sink in
, that message of there are noterms, there are no conditions.
I have to be clear.
(08:45):
I'm saying this to myself.
I'm.
I don't want you to sin, mark.
Stop sinning, but if and whenyou do, it's paid for.
That's a tough reality forsomeone who doesn't have a
spiritual foundation, don't youthink?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Oh my gosh, yes, yeah , and so you know, coming off of
that as a foundation for therest of our lives, right,
particularly those of us whohave experienced and embraced
God's grace, right.
What does that mean for us inthe rest of our life, in the
(09:28):
rest of our relationships?
Right, and the rest of ourrelationships right, and whether
it be in the business world, inour personal relationships, in
our marriage, our relationshipwith our kids, those closest to
us, friends, family, whateverright, how many terms and
conditions do we have?
Right, for you know that thepeople in our lives need to
abide by right In order to earnour grace and approval and
(09:53):
affirmation.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Long list.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, that's not a rhetoricalquestion.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It's not a rhetorical question, no it shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Well, I'm sorry it should not be a rhetorical
question.
I have a judgmental spirit.
I have admitted that on thepodcast before.
It's something I pray against.
The enemy has a field day.
You know those T's and C's ofquid pro quo.
(10:23):
My quid pro quoness is high,too high, and I'm not talking
about, you know, loaning thelawnmower quid pro quo.
You know Doing unto others,loving those who hurt you, and
you know loving strangers,loving your enemies, treating
people with kindness regardless.
That's the truth.
Is that's hard for me topractice in my home.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, the quid pro quo sums it up well, right,
what's the what's?
What's the agenda?
What do what do you know?
What do I get?
What's in it for me?
What do I need?
Right, Me, me, me, me, me, me,me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me,
monster, Right, Uh, great, greatcomedian, Brian Regan did a bit
(11:05):
on the me monster, Hysterical.
If you haven't seen it, look itup YouTube.
It Got it.
But that's what you know,that's, it's.
That's what we're talking abouthere.
Right, it is Versus that outward, that outward, just servants,
heart serving, serving, serving,serving, serving, giving,
(11:30):
giving giving giving and it'slike you know what I'm tired of
giving Right, Well, Tired ofgetting tired of getting taken
advantage of.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's it.
You just took the words rightout of my mouth.
We're tired of giving becauseyou start measuring how you got
back right, yeah.
And then you say, well, I gavethere, but there was no fruit.
And that's when I am giving Iam looking for fruit.
That's generally how I operate.
I'm going to say, okay, youknow, I'm going to give my time,
(11:54):
talents, treasures, money,whatever, and I hope for some
fruit to be born there.
But I'm going to give you anexample.
You can relate to you, and Ihad the incredible joy to do
this feed the need thing.
Right, the pinky is right here,here's pinky.
And so feed the need.
And for everyone who doesn'tknow listening, we just both
(12:17):
belong to a church in leadershipand you can pack meals in
Ziploc bags and it would be riceand soy powder and some veggies
, dehydrated veggies.
You pack them, you know, in asix ounce, seven ounce Ziploc,
put them in a box, seal it up,put it on a pallet onto a truck,
off to the airport shipping andoff it goes around the world to
(12:38):
feed starving people with afoundational meal.
Right, we're not talking steakand eggs, we're just talking a
rice-based, good, nutritionalmeal.
And we had a chance to do thatfor five years in a row at a
church and it got bigger andbigger.
Right, we did a few meals oneyear.
Five years later we packed 2million meals, yeah, sent it out
all over the world, right, andultimately had this great
(13:01):
opportunity and Sarge.
It took me all five years tounderstand.
I would never see anyone eatingthat meal ever.
I'd never know what the netresult.
What was the ROI?
I'm a big ROI guy.
What's the return on myinvestment?
Well, I shut down my life tohelp support those events and
(13:26):
you and my wife were on amissions team in Zimbabwe's
Africa.
Is it South Africa or Africa?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It was Zimbabwe's Africa.
Is it South Africa or?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Africa.
It was Zimbabwe Africa, okay,zimbabwe Africa.
And you walked into a hospitalor a place where they there were
kids with encephalitis, withwater on the brain and such and
so and apparently got into thekitchen and there were feed the
need, boxes of meals there, andI believe right now, with
goosebumps all over my arms,that that was my God telling my
(13:57):
wife to tell me, mark, I've seenthe ROI here.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
It's right here.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
There are sick people half a world away eating the
Ziploc bags that you packed andshipped here.
So that's my example.
Is God?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
will.
It was unbelievable.
I mean, you just told thatstory in like seven seconds.
It was, and it is like anunbelievable story and turn of
events but absolutely, 100%, amiracle and really one of those
God winks.
That's like I got you Right andit's just incredible.
I mean just incredible.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
God saying don't, don't, mark, fear not, right,
mark, you can trust me, mark,yeah, this, this, this is good.
Go keep giving.
And this comes back to yourearlier point of why I was tired
of giving.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, Well, and you bring up a good point, right
Cause we, you know, we've talkedabout, you know, the the terms
and conditions that God's gracetoward the terms and conditions
on us.
We've talked about the termsand conditions we have for, you
know, for others, um, or evenfor ourselves, right that we
place on ourselves, um, butthere's also and you just kind
(15:12):
of referenced it is, you know,as you talk about trusting in
God, is the terms and conditionswe put place on God right?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's a bad list.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yeah, we'll edit this out.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead, you got to go there.
We've committed to doing this.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Listen, there's just there's.
There's countless Well likethere, we've committed to doing
this.
Listen, there's just there's.
There's countless Well like,just show me, just show me.
Well, just tell me one moretime.
Well, just convince me, well,just prove to me.
I mean like all the things thatare the opposite of faith,
right, all the things that arethe opposite of truly, you know,
stepping out on the water andtrusting God.
And, um man, you know, like,yeah, guilty, guilty as charged.
(15:53):
I mean you know, and and youknow, and, quite frankly, I mean
the enemy can have a field dayon on me in that regard, like,
oh, you didn't, you don't reallythink he said that, do you?
That was just your imagination,that was your voice, not his
right.
Yeah, those are just somecoincidences that kind of lined
(16:16):
up just perfectly.
That's not God, you know.
I mean just you know all theserationalizations right Over and
over and over.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Can you believe?
In the morning I pray to thankmy God for every good day that I
believe in trust in him.
Yet I question him every day.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And then, every now and then, you rescue me
unwittingly by saying I'mhearing from God and he's saying
, whether it's about career,it's about kids, it's about
finances, it's about travel, anynumber of things.
You'll often say to me I feellike I'm hearing from God on
this, and what I'm hearing is,and I think to myself at that
moment I'm so happy he said that.
(17:02):
Like really, that touches meand warms me.
I'm like all right, mark, slowdown, quiet, stop the noise,
quiet yourself.
You too can hear from God.
And sometimes it's a box ofZiploc bags filled with rice.
(17:24):
Yep, I mean, I'm happy God canhit me with a two by four, it's
okay.
I don't mind the mule treatmentif he needs to get my attention
, I really don't.
But I think we can agree thatour Lord is kind and gentle and
loving.
He says faithful love enduresforever.
You know how I feel about thatphrase, Psalm 138, his faithful
love endures forever.
(17:44):
And that's how he treats uslike we are sheep and takes good
care of us.
I'm kidding about the two byfour, the terms from my father
in heaven is love, that's theterm, that's the condition, it's
a heart condition, literally.
(18:04):
Yeah, yep, founded in love,love so strong, you'll sacrifice
your son to make sure it neverends.
This relationship is unending.
How many things in your lifecan you say that about Love of
(18:25):
your wife, right?
So many conditional things inour life, but this relationship
founded in love never ends.
Yeah, you get it, you do.
It comes with the package.
I remember you starting yourwalk and standing on street
(18:46):
corners with Tramp and otherpeople and telling people about
the word and what they couldhave.
They, too, you can share inthis gift.
This is what the Bible says.
Here's right.
I'm holding my hand up, likehere.
This is what's there for youthe passion right that you have
and people don't know or theydon't understand it's.
(19:06):
It is hard to understand.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm not talking about , I don't want to get into a
great dissertation on the rightyou know, the life, the birth of
our our savior and his deathand resurrection.
That's not, that doesn't needto be where this conversation
goes, but I think we have tostand up for how strongly we
believe that what we are talkingabout god's lack of terms and
(19:31):
conditions are available toeveryone.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And and just to again, just toreiterate where we started, that
you know there are, uh, thereare guidelines, right, there's,
there's guidelines for aflourishing life that God set
out.
Those are his terms andconditions, and when we follow
(19:58):
them we get to enjoy theblessing of flourishing right,
because that's God's design.
And when we screw up and wedon't, right, there's grace and
love and forgiveness.
And so you know, this is not tosay that they don't matter,
(20:21):
right.
I mean the guidelines matter.
You know the terms andconditions matter, matter
greatly, right, but it's notperformance-based.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
No, and I want to make sure that's clear.
You brought up a good point,but it's not performance-based.
No, and I want to make surethat's clear.
You brought up a good point.
I wasn't thinking of goingthere, but I do not believe the
Ten Commandments are terms andconditions provided by God.
They're commandments, they'renot a suggestion.
Right, in order for me to loveyou, you need to know.
Right, you should not kill.
Yeah, I don't even want to gointo it.
(20:51):
That's not a term and condition.
Jesus came to fulfill the law.
The Bible's very clear aboutthis.
Right.
He's not in lieu of the law orsaying the law is bad.
He's fulfilling those promisesand it's a new promise founded
in love.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, baby,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Man get cooking on this one.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah, Terms and conditions, and yeah, it's
interesting.
We're talking about theguidelines and been digging into
the Proverbs, about, uh,praying through the Psalms and,
um, you know, more recently I'vebeen spending time and reading
(21:40):
through the Proverbs and, uh,you know totally, totally
different, right, I mean totallytotally different.
Um, you know the Psalms and andand Proverbs, um, and, of
course, the Psalms and Proverbsand, of course, the Psalms are
founded in praise and worship ofGod and the Proverbs being
(22:03):
these guidelines, right, thewisdom for a life well lived, a
life of flourishing, right?
And it's so interesting because, again, like, are they terms
and conditions?
Right?
Like, you know, it's just, it'sit's, but you know, you read
through them and you go, oh man,like, yeah, that's, uh, that's
(22:27):
rich baby, as, as our friendBrian would say, that's rich,
that's rich, you know so good,Uh, probably should have spent
more time reading through theProverbs as a young man and and
and being sensitive to andpaying more attention to them
and um, yeah, you have to wantto do it right.
(22:48):
Yeah, you know, or at leastasking God to do it Like.
Yeah, Like, give me what I needto do this, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Or at least asking God to do it Like yeah, give me
what I need to do this, as withso many things in life, in order
to embrace different parts ofthe Bible, be it Psalms or
Proverbs or any place else youfeel comfortable and are
enjoying.
It's almost a necessity thatGod anoint someone to tell you,
someone you trust, to say to youhey, this is a good place to
(23:12):
spend some time.
Right, you don't get it as notest grade, but it's valuable
for you to invest here.
And that's in many cases.
We do that when we're buyingcars or going shopping and for a
lot of things.
Someone says to you hey, haveyou tried?
We do it with TV shows andstreaming.
Did you see this app, thischannel, this?
Somebody says it to you thatyou think, oh, they're pretty
(23:34):
reasonable, they're sane.
You know, I'll take a look atthat.
And the same is true for theBible.
We have so many examples of aredemptive God where humans get
involved.
All of a sudden, things becomemessy.
That, you know it's.
One of my laments is, ifthere's humans involved, it's
(23:55):
probably going to be messy atsome stage or another, and and
it is but we are redeemed overand over.
There's there's evidence ofthat and I don't even want to
give it away.
There are some great Biblestories about, you know, the
brokenness.
Start with the 12 disciples.
Yeah, there's not a saint amongthem.
(24:15):
You know, not one.
No, and each one, you know eachone.
Decided that they felt sostrongly about their
relationship with their saviorthat they gave their lives.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
That's.
Come on, man, it's a heck of astory.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You can't make it up Exactly and just like where you
started.
Man, the heroes of the faithtake solace in the disasters
that those men were.
You know, I mean just you know.
I mean by you know sinfulstandards.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
By any measure, yeah.
Peter, you need more fish topay your taxes.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'll be right back, Peter you need more fish to pay
your taxes.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
I'll be right back, oh my goodness, david, a man
after all heart, goodness Right,Forget it.
So I'm thinking about this isfor me.
Again, I'll speak for myself.
Only I am guilty of holdingpeople to a standard that I
(25:17):
don't meet myself In my applyingterms and conditions to
relationships with friends, withco-workers, with neighbors,
with, etc.
Do watch myself and catchmyself and warn myself.
(25:39):
Stop myself from holding peopleto a standard that I don't meet
, and there's clearly ahypocrisy in that.
There's pride in that I havemade positive steps in that.
But that was an area I reallyhad to focus.
So I think we usually talkabout something practical here.
That requires an inventory,that requires me to stop and
just not let my emotions get inthe way of what God might be up
(26:03):
to, of not turning somebody awaybecause they don't meet my
standards, they don't meet myterms and conditions, and stop
and say, well, you don't meetyour terms and conditions.
You know and I I don't do thatoften enough, but it's a really
important cleansing for me is totry and keep my focus on
(26:27):
fruitful things, things thatbear good biblical fruit.
Stay there.
If I find myself in that spot,generally I'm treating people
better.
I'm erasing my terms andconditions list.
That's just me.
Do you have a way of thinkingabout how you treat other people
?
And this is when you meetsomeone and how you treat them
right off the bat.
(26:50):
Is there a Sarge?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
standard?
You know there isn't.
I mean, I think you know muchlike you.
You know your mission, you knowspeaking about being present,
right?
Yeah, my mission is similar inthat regard right, listening
intently, respondingcompassionately.
And so, man, it's all over themap.
It really depends on my stateof being, my heart, my mind, my
(27:14):
circumstances, what's going onin my life, and so,
unfortunately, it's all over themap.
But at my best, I be thinkingabout how I'm going to respond
when others are, are thinkingand just just listening, and you
(27:39):
know, and seeking to understand, and and then take the time to
craft a response, and thatchanges everything, to create
that pause.
That's a game changer.
It's a game changer becauseotherwise, yeah, like you, right
, like you know, the ABCs alwaysbe closing right, always be
like you, right, like you know,the ABCs always be closing right
, always be closing Right.
So you're, you know you're asales guy.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Taking my sales story , Always be closing right.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Chapter two yeah, so, uh, you know the quid pro quo
what can I, what do I deserve,what can I get out of it?
What's you know?
You know I've been wronged.
Right, justice needs to beserved.
What can I get at Like, what doI, what am I getting Right and
um, Is my hidden agenda.
Yeah, right, or just agenda.
What's my agenda, right Versus?
(28:22):
Just loving connection, lovingauthentic connection and um, if,
if our agenda is lovingauthentic connection um, a, um,
100 of the time, could youimagine that that's our god
change, that's our god?
Yeah, loving authenticconnection 100 of the time.
(28:42):
So you know, make that ouragenda today.
May we make that our agendatoday and every day.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That is our term.
That's our term.
That's it.
Loving authentic connectionsthat's our term.
No conditions I love it, noconditions, I love it.
Well, I'd like to close bysimply saying that there's this
idea.
First of all, we gave away theanswer, so we just want everyone
to acknowledge the fact that wewere not challenging you any
(29:13):
more than we're challengingourselves.
We thought about for about 30seconds about what were God's
terms, and so we both got thatone right.
But I also I want to remindmyself and remind you, sarge,
this type of attitude of noterms and conditions, with
unconditional love, lovingauthentic connection starts at
(29:33):
home.
So I want to invite everybodylistening to go hug the people
that are closest to them.
Now, that's appropriate, andwhen you get home, if you're not
there, that we start.
There we all start.
We have this fresh start right.
We've had an election, we'vegot some new ideas, there's new
(29:54):
things happening here in andaround us.
We have this fresh start right.
We've had an election, we'vegot some new ideas, there's new
things happening here in andaround us, and maybe we just
continue that momentum andevolve our relationships right
with the people we love the most, the people we are with the
most that we want to be with,the most, at least, unless
you're a workaholic.
But let's start there.
Let's agree to loveunconditionally at home, to the
(30:17):
point where the people aroundyou going what's going on?
What, what happened to you?
And the answer is you got.
You got some love.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Yeah Right Amen brother.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Before you go, I just want to let you know.
While I may not be spot on, Ithink it's appropriate to say
this episode will be probablynumber 80, 81, 80, or in the 80s
since we started.
It also is precariously closeto our very first episode, which
was November 24th of 2021.
(30:52):
Episode which was November 24thof 2021.
So this might not be again onthe day, but a three-year
anniversary is going to come andgo right Right near
Thanksgiving, when you and Istarted this three years ago.
So I want you to know it's forcongratulations on our
three-year anniversary.
I love you and I love doingthis with you, and 80 episodes
later, I'm still happy doing itwith you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Happy anniversary I've got some terms and
conditions for my 2025 contract.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's all I have to say.
Great to see you, bro.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
I want to double my pay.
I'm out.
My pay doubled or else.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I can agree to that.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Zero.
Wait a second.
No, wait, no, not double.
Hang on.
I got to do the math again.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Back up.
Yeah, get out your abacus.
Thanks bro.
Good God bless you, bro, youtoo, peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
I think about how this conversation got started,
specifically when Mark remindedus that we never really spend
time looking at the words inthose T's and C's.
We hit, accept and we keep itmoving forward, and I know that
that's true for me.
My takeaway from this time withthe guys is this when we are
faced with agreements orrelationships, we must consider
(32:07):
them carefully, understand themand the weight that they carry.
You know, when I'm downloadingthe latest version of an app
I've been using for the lastfive years, well, it's a $1.99
investment and if I have topivot to a new app, the delete
button is always available.
But when I consider the factthat I have a temporary body
(32:28):
that's housing an eternal soul,well, that gets heavy real quick
.
I'm spending time to understandmy options and the options for
the people I love.
I believe God has given us hisword to reveal who he is, who we
are, the plan to bridge thechasm that separates us and how
(32:50):
to gain access to that bridge.
I don't want to read his word,I want to marinate in it.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
(33:11):
only you can do, in Jesus nameAmen.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to thefoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcast.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(33:37):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
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