March 21, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when a Jewish boy loses his mother at age three, gets institutionalized at seven, and spends his youth bouncing between boarding schools before choosing to live alone at fifteen? Michael Fineman's raw, powerful story reveals how God works through our deepest pain to create purpose and healing.
Michael takes us through his journey of childhood abandonment, where his father's remarriage and his stepmother's abuse led to years in various institutions. Rather than breaking him, these experiences revealed something unexpected - Michael had a natural gift for helping others more broken than himself. This servant heart would later become foundational to his faith journey and life mission.
After years of partying and searching, Michael found himself drawn to Christianity despite his Jewish background. His transformation wasn't instantaneous - it took seven years of church attendance before fully surrendering to Jesus. Now identifying as a "completed Jew," Michael explains how changing his filter from his earthly father to his heavenly Father revolutionized his life and parenting.
The most profound moment came when, as a divorced dad raising his son, Michael heard God's clear instruction through journaling: "If you want him to become that man, then you have to become that man." This revelation sparked intentional fatherhood that has created an extraordinary bond with his son and birthed "The Dad Link" - a ministry helping men break generational cycles of poor parenting.
Whether you're wrestling with father wounds, seeking to become a better parent, or simply needing hope that your broken past can become purposeful, Michael's story will resonate deeply. Subscribe now and share this episode with someone who needs to hear that their deepest pain might become their most powerful ministry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark Vesper (00:08):
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Steve Sargent (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Mark Vesper (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
The Maestro (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole today and they have a
special guest joining them.
Plot twist, he's different, yetthe same.
(00:49):
You know what time it is, getcomfortable, open your notes app
and let's get this symphonystarted.
Steve Sargent (00:56):
Hey welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with my goodfriend Mark.
Hey buddy.
Mark Vesper (01:02):
What's happening bro?
Steve Sargent (01:03):
Oh my gosh.
Mark Vesper (01:04):
Back in the foxhole .
Steve Sargent (01:06):
You know the answer to that.
Michael Fineman (01:07):
There's a lot happening.
Steve Sargent (01:08):
It is moving at the speed of light, as usual.
Mark Vesper (01:12):
This is your chance to slow down.
Steve Sargent (01:14):
You know what, we're going to slow down a
little bit and I'm grateful thatwe've got a great guest in the
foxhole today and, um, because,uh, we'll talk about, you know,
a future podcast, all the thingsthat God is up to, uh, in our
lives today really want to focuson our, on our guests.
So I'm going to jump right inand introduce Michael Feynman.
(01:36):
Uh, michael and I connectedrecently, I don't know a month
and a half or so ago, and havesince then bumped into each
other at a men's conference, asmall men's conference called
Godfident, which was really cool, and we're like, hey man, we,
we, you know, we actuallyprobably have more in common
than maybe we even realized.
And so we reconnected again andhere he is, and so I'm not
(02:00):
going to get into the wholeintro, cause that'll unfold
throughout.
But, michael, welcome.
Glad you're in the foxhole withus, bro, thank you.
Michael Fineman (02:08):
It's great to be here with you guys.
Steve Sargent (02:12):
So I'm going to just go out and say, like,
actually, the thing that comesto mind is you know, michael, we
don't have a lot of Jewishguests.
In fact, I don't think we'vehad any Jewish guests.
You're our first, and I know.
When we spoke, you know, uh,you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm a
Jew, and you know I love Jesus,and you know, and, and you were
like, yeah, people try to put mein a box.
(02:32):
I remember you saying that like, oh, people say, oh, so you're
a messianic Jew.
Well, I, you know, you can putme in a box if you want.
I love Jesus and he's my savior, and I'm like.
I was like, oh, man, that is so, so rich.
So tell us a little bit more.
Man, I just want to jump rightinto your story.
So you were born, and then what?
Michael Fineman (02:51):
Yeah, I was born, uh, born Jewish, and then
got born again later.
But you know, uh, I considermyself a completed Jew because,
you know, judaism is a heritageand nationality.
You can't just shut that off,right.
So, but after finding theMessiah, which, you know, most
Jews are still praying for, Iconsider myself a completed Jew.
(03:13):
And I often joke that I get thedouble blessing, you know, but
I'm not really joking, that'sright the way I love the Lord.
I'm like, yeah, I got thedouble blessing and I stand on
all the gifts and authority thathe's given me.
I'm walking in it.
Steve Sargent (03:27):
I love it.
Michael Fineman (03:28):
I love it.
Steve Sargent (03:29):
I've completed you.
I love that and yeah, and I dounderstand.
I mean I kind of laughed, but Ialso picked up on the
seriousness a little bit whenyou said phrase.
Michael Fineman (03:43):
I think overall people try to put religion in a
box completely and coming fromreligion, coming into Jesus,
it's freedom.
So when people you know, oh,are you non-denominational, are
you Baptist, are you?
No, no, dude, I'm, I justfollow Jesus, and they're like,
yeah, but but what denominationare you?
Yeah, a guy that follows Jesus,maybe disciple.
Steve Sargent (04:04):
Yeah, exactly, apprentice of Jesus.
Mark Vesper (04:08):
Exactly, I love it.
Steve Sargent (04:09):
Listen, we need more of that.
We need more of that right Likestrip away all the boxes and
the layers and the the obstaclesand the silos, and it's just,
you know gospel's simple.
Michael Fineman (04:19):
It's easy, it's not complicated, it is really
basic, until we get in themiddle of it and then it's
become something that never wasmeant to be.
But it's really complicated, itis really basic until we get in
the middle of it and then itbecomes something it never was
meant to be.
But it's really simple.
And you know, the one thingthat always rings in my mind is
they will know you by your lovefor one another is what Jesus
said right.
And so when I'm out and aboutand you're the same way, you
(04:39):
know, at the conference I sawkind of how you were and how I
am and we're very similar.
In that very outgoing youconference, I saw kind of how
you were and how I am and we'revery similar.
In that very outgoing you know,I hug almost every guy I meet.
I love you, bro.
You know, I'm not afraid tojust be who I am, uh, and still
be a man at the same time, andthat's right.
You know, I think a lot of guyswere taken back by that, which
is great Cause that opens thedoor.
Steve Sargent (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, so tell, tell us um, so you know so
obviously you live in Florida.
Michael Fineman (05:10):
That's how we met here, local to me.
Where'd you grow up?
I grew up in, I was born inWashington DC.
I grew up in several boardingschools, so my story is one that
could sound one way butactually is another.
And so I grew up.
My mother had brain cancerwhile I was a baby and my
brother was a year and a halfold, and at that time I was
(05:31):
three and my mother passed, andshe was 29 years old before she
passed away.
And, interestingly enough, shegrew up in this area of Florida.
Uh, and later I met several ofher friends and learned a lot
about her.
But as she was passing, shesaid to my father, who was then
(05:52):
30, hey, find a mommy for myboys.
My boys are going to need amommy, and I set you free and
when I go, I want you to findsomebody.
And so my dad is a verypractical man.
He's, he's a loving guy, butpractical comes before love in
his mind, and it's just the wayhe's wired.
It used to make me angry.
Now I've completely forgivenhim and I just see him for who
he is and love him for who he is.
And so in his mind, his job wasto go find a wife, so he was
(06:14):
working full time out at theoffice.
He was dating a lot at night.
And so, at three years old,after losing my mother, we were
being raised by a nanny whodidn't speak much English and he
wasn't around much.
And it's not his fault.
I don't look at it that way.
He I think he was doing what heknew to do and was trying to do
the right thing, as if a fatherwas out working his you know,
(06:35):
his to the bone, hands to thebone just to get food on the
table.
He was doing what he felt wasright for his family, and so he.
That's what happened.
But but the the consequence ofthat was my brother and I didn't
have a mother.
We were raised without thatnurturing.
We were raised without, youknow, something that little kids
(06:56):
need very, very much.
So in the formidable years iswhen he started, you know,
introducing us to someone thathe was going to marry.
I'm five years old now, so heends up marrying her at five and
something was off.
I knew it immediately.
I didn't know what it was, butsomething was off.
I didn't feel comfortable withher.
I was a little bit skeptical ofthe whole thing.
(07:17):
But again, I'm five.
So I started asking questions.
Now I'm five, now I'm getting alittle bit of consciousness,
right, what was my mommy'sfavorite ice cream?
What was her favorite color?
Right, and I'm calling her myreal mom.
And then I'm calling my stepmommy new mom, right, and at that
time I'm five.
So it was probably saying mommy, right, tell me about my real
mommy.
(07:37):
What did she like, what did shedo?
So at some point my father cameto my brother and I said listen,
and more to me, because I wasmore cognitive at the time he
said we're hurting your newmommy's feelings by always
talking about your old mommy.
So we're going to kind of putthat stuff away.
We're not going to talk aboutthat, we're going to focus on
our new family, our new nucleus,and this is what we're going to
(07:58):
focus on.
Well, when a child can'tcommunicate their feelings, they
act out because they don't knowhow to communicate.
So that's what happened.
I started acting out, I startedpushing back, and my stepmother
became very abusive not startedverbally, but then became
physically abusive, and she wasvery frustrated.
(08:19):
And later, you know, the Lordshowed me that she had just gone
through a tough childhood,which I didn't know at the time,
obviously I'm a kid, but by thetime I was seven, I was in an
institution, locked up and likebuzz doors, padded rooms, you
know, straight jackets if youwent off, like scary place for a
seven-year-old and there waskids up to 17 in this place,
(08:41):
same dorm, wow.
So it was shocking to my system, to say the least.
And I was in there for a littlebit and they booted me out.
They're like, hey, wrong kid,send this kid home.
And they put me back in again.
Uh, same place, maybe three orfour months later.
And then from there I was inthe system, boarding school to
(09:02):
boarding school, to boardingschool, whichever place would
take me, until they said to mydad hey, you've got to take him
out, he doesn't belong here.
Because I always stood out inthese schools as someone who
helped other kids, because I wasin this situation and I didn't
know what to do except serve.
Now, I wasn't a believer, Ididn't know anything about this.
I just knew that there was kidsthat were so broken in this
(09:25):
place and I was not.
And so, instead of you know,woe is me I became a very
outgoing, helpful, good ear fora lot of friends and and knew
everybody in the school.
That's who I just became Um.
And so then at 15, we're in thejudge's chambers, uh, and the
(09:45):
judge looks at my record and helooks at my father and he says
hey, I see what you're doinghere.
You have taken him from placeto place.
I'm looking at therecommendations, I'm looking at
the.
You know all of the things andyou can't do this anymore.
It's time to transition himinto the home.
And my father looks at me andhe says well, there's going to
be some rules, young man.
I said oh heck, no, no, no, no,no.
(10:05):
I looked at the judge.
I said, sir, the day you dropme off, I'll go AWOL.
And if you bring me back, I'llgo AWOL that day too.
I knew he couldn't place me.
So if I said that, because I'vebeen in the system eight years
now.
So the judge looks at me and hesays okay, so you know the
system, you know I can't placeyou.
What do you suppose I do?
And I said you know what?
(10:26):
Put me in juvie till I'm 18.
I'll figure it out.
And so he looks at my dad and hesays you understand that your
son just chose jail over cominghome.
I don't know what kind ofenvironment is going on, but I'm
not putting him in jail.
I'm looking at these reports.
I'm not putting him in jail, sowe need to come up with
something else.
And so my father said well, hecan go live on a kibbutz in
(10:48):
Israel, which is like a communebasically, but I knew I'd have
to serve in the military.
Imagine how I felt aboutauthority at that point in my
life Not interested.
Or you could go live with yourgrandmother in Palm Beach.
It's my biological mother'smother that lives in Palm Beach
and I'm like Palm beach, I'mgoing to Palm beach, so I get
(11:11):
here and she's been here.
She's been widowed 20 years.
She lives in a one bedroomapartment and really doesn't
believe in air conditioning andso.
But she loved me.
She became the mother.
Steve Sargent (11:24):
You're like?
Is that Israel option stillopen?
Michael Fineman (11:33):
Yeah, exactly Uh, and.
But she loved me and she tookcare of me and she mothered me
in a way that I'd never beenmothered at, which is really
interesting because my aunt toldme all her life she was a tough
business woman, but she meltedwhen I got here and she hadn't
had a lot of communication withme over those eight years.
My father didn't allow it.
So, you know, I stayed with herfor about three months.
Now again I was in the system.
(11:54):
I'd come home reeking ofmarijuana.
You know I was already smokingcigarettes full time.
You know I I had been in with abunch of kids who belonged in
these places for a long time butmanaged to keep my nose
somewhat clean and I got my ownplace.
So my dad helped me outfinancially a little bit.
I got a little efficiency andat 15, I was on my own.
(12:15):
I was in high school, I had amotorcycle, I had a couple jobs.
I worked on the weekends, Ipumped gas at night, I would do
whatever I could to make moneyand I went for it.
Mark Vesper (12:29):
Wow, yeah, pause, yeah, I'm going to take a deep
breath, but the whole time youwere talking, what happened to
your brother during these decade?
Michael Fineman (12:39):
Yeah, he did a little bit better with receiving
our stepmother Okay, but herbrokenness eventually didn't
allow for that and he ended upin military school, which he got
kicked out of.
Then he went into the militarybecause in military school he
had met a girl whose father wasin the military and kind of took
(13:01):
him under his wing to try tostraighten him out, and he got
kicked out of the military too.
So he he failed pretty, prettymiserably and, and unfortunately
, all of my siblings, none of us, were able to maintain a solid
marriage.
All of us got divorced, allfour of us.
They had two after us, um, andyou know some of them are on
(13:23):
their second marriage.
I'm still single.
I haven't.
I haven't remarried, um, butthe damage that was done was
pretty obvious.
Mark Vesper (13:31):
Yeah, wow, thank you for your honesty.
Steve Sargent (13:35):
Appreciate that, yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean my gosh, um, you know,I'm just thinking like going
back to five and the.
You know the pain that youreferenced right, like not
knowing you know, at five, six,seven, what to do with that, and
you know.
(13:56):
So I'm curious, like I mean,where along the way did you, if
you did, did you get to kind oflearn more about your mother?
I mean, was that with your,your grandmother, or you know
what did that look like?
Michael Fineman (14:11):
Yes, yeah, when I moved to Florida, you know, I
was with my aunt uh, who is hersister, my cousins uh and my
grandmother, and so they told melots of stories about her.
But then I was dating a girl.
She was 10 years older than meand she at 17,.
She was working in a uh, adental lab and her boss, the guy
(14:34):
that owned the business, wasfriends with my mom in high
school, actually doubled on theprom date, you know, with his
date and her and her date andknew all about her.
And I took him to lunch, he andhis wife, and they just
downloaded they I mean, theywere friends with her for years
after that too.
So I learned so many thingsabout my mom and it's
(14:54):
interesting the similarities.
But also I came away very proudof her.
She was outgoing, she reallydanced to the beat of her own
drum, but she was one of thosepeople that had a massive
network and loved and was lovedby a lot of people.
Steve Sargent (15:09):
Yeah, what a gift .
I mean honestly, like I meanfor for God to you know, plant
you in that, in that space.
Yeah, getting across the tablefrom you know this businessman.
I mean what a gift to receivethat download.
I mean God's hand clearly inthat right.
(15:30):
I mean I imagine you're justglued and just consuming and you
know, I imagine there's just somuch healing there.
Michael Fineman (15:39):
I've been craving that information since I
was five.
Steve Sargent (15:42):
Right, so how old were you at that point?
Michael Fineman (15:45):
You're 17.
I was probably, you know,between 17 and 19, somewhere
right in there.
Yeah, amazing, oh my gosh.
Yeah, Now interestingly enough,right after that and I was very
active in doing a lot of thingsat that point, I was in a speed
metal band.
I was trying to be a pro uh,knee border, uh.
So I was water skiing all thetime.
I already had a boat at thatpoint and um, but interestingly
(16:09):
enough, I went down with Crohn's.
At that point I had to havesurgery and they never figured
out.
You know, they didn't know whatwas going on.
They just did exploratory backthen.
But you know, disease isdis-ease and I think a lot of
you know.
If you look at the root causeof Crohn's, spiritually, it is
(16:30):
guilt, shame, rejection, right.
So I lived all of that reallywell.
But I want to go back a littlebit to the schools that I grew
up in, because the story maylook like which I told at first
hey, they locked me up and threwaway the key.
The truth is, god put me thereand he told me this later, which
you know some of the hardesttimes in our life become some of
(16:52):
the best learning places in ourlife.
And so when I asked him, youknow I was exasperated.
I didn't know God at the time,but when I was starting to be
introduced to him and, uh, I wasactually going to church and I
was 30 now and married.
I started asking him questionsabout it.
You know why would you do thatto a kid If you're this awesome
(17:13):
God, you're this perfect father,and I'm asking some pretty raw
questions, coming into believing?
And he said I needed you to beset apart for what I had for you
.
And I didn't know what thatmeant until later when he
reiterated and went deeper onthat.
But that's all he said and Ididn't know what set apart meant
(17:34):
.
I didn't know Christianese atthat point.
I don't know what he's talkingabout, but that's what he said.
He said I needed you to be setapart.
And I was fathered by probably30 guys that were staff members
in these places that saw who Iwas and just wanted to for lack
of a better term just wanted tolove on me and care for me as
(17:56):
staff members and pour into me.
So I had guys that taught mehow to play guitar.
I had guys that taught me aboutwhat it means to be chivalrous.
He used to sit me down and we'dwatch Humphrey Bogart movies
and he'd say now, don't light acigarette and don't slap her.
But all this other stuff I needyou to learn.
You know, and it was amazingbecause you know.
Now I'm a very standoutchivalrous guy, and so is my son
(18:17):
.
I taught him those same skillsets and it's maybe a lost art,
but, uh, much appreciated inthis world today.
Steve Sargent (18:25):
Wow, incredible.
So you so you, you know, Ithink around 30 or something
like that you get uh, I thinkyou were dating right and get
invited to a church to tell us alittle bit more about, like,
how did you begin to discoverwho God was?
God?
Michael Fineman (18:43):
Yeah, so in my twenties I lived my childhood
out, but I had money, so that'sa little dangerous, right?
Uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, I was a party animal
basically.
Um, I didn't, I only drank forprobably about five years of my
life, but I drank enough rum toofficially be a pirate.
I'm sure it was downtown inClematis, in West Palm, when all
(19:05):
that was just coming up and allmy buddies had built that out.
So I had VIP everywhere, whichprobably wasn't great either.
And I went through asemi-self-destructive childhood
moment there where I really justpartied my head off and I was
chasing girls.
I had five girlfriends at atime, all the time, because I
was seeking to fill theGod-sized hole.
(19:26):
I didn't know that at the time.
At the time it looked like Iwas living life to the fullest.
My friends could not believeyou know how awesome my life was
.
But truthfully, I was verylonely the whole time and
looking back I realized you knowyou say, oh, I caused a wake of
broken hearts, but the amountof damage I did to myself in
that time was just as bad, maybeworse.
(19:47):
And so at about 30, I'm just,I'm done dating.
I'm like this is stupid.
I have.
You know, girls are everywhere.
I don't care about any of them.
You know, there's nothing, it'sall shallow, there's nothing
valuable.
You know I'm not looking todrink, I don't care about that,
it makes me feel like crapanyway.
And I just, you know, I'm goingto get married.
(20:08):
And so I met uh, it's funny.
My roommate at the time saidhey, she's not just going to
walk in the door, but this womancame in to do a health exam on
me and I was buying extra lifeinsurance because I was flying
airplanes, I was a scuba divemaster, I was wakeboarding, I
mean, I was doing lots of thingsthat could get me hurt and I
didn't want to be a burden.
(20:29):
So she came over to draw myblood and I ended up marrying
her, and so she had three kidsand she converted to Judaism to
please my parents for thewedding.
I knew that wouldn't work.
I wasn't sure exactly why shedid it, but I didn't fight it.
My parents just didn't like her.
But my parents didn't likeanybody, so I didn't think
(20:52):
anything of it.
You know I was like, yeah,they're hard on everybody.
But after about a year and ahalf of the marriage she said
you know, you don't, we don't goto synagogue.
And I'm like, nah, I'm Jewish,but like I really don't do any
of that.
And she said I want to go tochurch.
And I'm like, go ahead, noproblem, you know, and again, I
know nothing about God, nothingabout anything that has to do
(21:13):
with God.
So every Sunday she would takegreat until she wanted me to
come and one of the things thatshe used to say to me often was
(21:34):
you really don't know what itmeans to be a good dad and I
need you to be a spiritualleader.
I had no idea what she wastalking about, but part of that
is you need to take the kids tochurch.
And I fought it, and fought it,and fought it and finally I said
, okay, whatever, we went toChrist Fellowship and back then
they had a horn section.
I think it was.
Michael Neal was leading it andit was.
(21:56):
I mean, it was just lift you up.
John Maxwell would preach, someof the time Coach Mullins was
preaching.
So I went in and it was myfirst experience with actually
speakers period, and I wasenamored.
I said the music is amazing.
The message is, you know, legit.
Like that's some good lifeadvice right there.
(22:17):
I'm okay with that.
I'll go sometimes and that ledto me going every week.
But I would not give myself tothe Lord, I would not submit to
Jesus.
Because I was looking at allthese hypocritical Christians
that said they were Christiansbut I only saw it in church.
Outside of that, their life, Ididn't see any.
There was no Jesus in them.
Andrew Womack says if they gotarrested for being a Christian,
(22:37):
there wouldn't be any.
There was no Jesus in them.
Andrew Womack says uh, if theygot arrested for being a
Christian, there wouldn't beenough evidence to convict them.
And you know, and, and that'swhat I was seeing, so I knew
that I could just be a Christianon Sunday, like they were.
So that's what I did.
And it took seven years ironicnumber for me to give my life to
the Lord.
(22:57):
It happened when we moved upNorth, uh, to the Carolinas for
a couple of years and and that'swhen I laid it down.
Steve Sargent (23:05):
Wow, so how long ago was that now?
Michael Fineman (23:09):
That was when my son was one, so he was, or he
was, an infant.
So, yeah, about 18,.
Well, about 18 years ago he'sgoing to be 18 tomorrow.
Wow, yeah, wow, cool.
Yeah, well, about 18 years ago,he's going to be 18 tomorrow.
Steve Sargent (23:20):
Wow, yeah, wow, cool, yeah, unbelievable, my
goodness.
I mean you just see, see God'shand in in in all of this, of
course, right, um, throughoutthe, the.
You know, of course, thevalleys, the suffering, the, the
, the self-induced pain, right,and, and and you know how God
redeems that and and and youknow, just bringing bringing
(23:40):
healing, learning about yourmother in this miraculous way,
and then you know thisrelationship, wow, I mean
incredible.
So I'm sure, once you came tothe Lord, I mean everything was
perfect.
Yeah, of course.
Michael Fineman (23:58):
Yeah, no, the marriage started failing pretty
quickly at that point.
Uh, the last five years werepretty brutal and I hung on, uh,
because I believe somethingthat wasn't true about, uh, a
scenario with her kids and Ididn't want to leave them
hanging, basically, uh, but Godhad a plan and a lot of that had
(24:19):
to do with my son, I'm sure,and for those five years it was
he and I.
I would take him everywhere.
My, my son's mom didn't reallylove to do a lot of activities.
I had that boy strapped to myback, took off, you know, and
just loved being a dad.
It was a great, great time of mylife, yeah, but it was
difficult and I a lot of thingscame up from childhood, you know
(24:39):
it.
But it was difficult and a lotof things came up from childhood
, you know, psychologically andemotionally and spiritually, and
I was saved at that point.
But I didn't know Jesus, I justknew about him, yeah, and when
we split and we got separated,my first knee-jerk reaction was
go back to my old lifestyle,started hanging out with a bunch
(25:00):
of party girls.
You know, here we go again andthat lasted maybe a month and I
just kind of shook my head andI'm like, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
I don't want this life for myson, I don't want this life for
me.
So I crawled into one of thechurches that we had bounced
through and just laid down.
Let the Lord minister to me,and I often think about you know
(25:22):
, when Jesus came out of thedesert, how the angels attended
to him.
That's how I felt, you know,looking back, yeah, so what,
what role?
Steve Sargent (25:32):
you know, mark and I, as you know, are always
talking about the, the, thetransformational value of being
an authentic Christian community.
Um, and so I'm curious like how, or if that that happened for
you.
Like what, what did that looklike for you?
Did you get plugged in?
Were you discipled?
How did what role did communityplay, if any, in really, you
(25:58):
know, knowing Jesus?
Michael Fineman (26:00):
Yeah, interesting how that worked.
So what I did know at that timeI was really starting to
understand business and I wasnow listening to Les Brown and
and Zig Ziglar and Jim Rohn andyou know I'd been introduced to
this from John Maxwell.
So now I'm listening to allthese guys.
(26:20):
Well, I'd read a book calledthe Millionaire Next Door and
they talk about finding a mentorto help you get where you want
to go.
And so I'm in this church, I'mlooking around and I see these
guys that are just straight upguys and I became friends with
them.
I befriended them.
There was one guy in particular.
I was serving in children'sministry at this time, doing
(26:42):
leading, praise and worship forthem and teaching and really
diving in.
You know, this is a couple ofyears after landing there, and
one of the guys that I servedwith in children's ministry was
such an amazing dad.
I literally asked him if hewould mentor me in being a
father.
The funny thing is he said I'llpray about it and never came
back to me.
Now today, 15 years later,we're best friends.
(27:06):
We own businesses togetheralong with another guy I met
there and we talk about thatoften Now I know him.
He just won't come back if theLord doesn't lead him to.
But because we became friendsand he asked me to help one of
his kids with a business project, I got to witness how he
fathered by being close to himand in fact we joke that I'm an
(27:30):
honorary family member and I doa lot with their entire family.
But now all of his kids havegone to Bible school, some of
them to Bible colleges, some ofthem.
They all live very close,within vicinity of their house,
and they all are just still thistight knit, super close family
(27:50):
that I want to emulate.
And it is because of myrelationships and connecting
with men that I saw were thekind of men I wanted to become.
I just knew to surround myselfwith the right group, and so I
intentionally surrounded myselfwith the right group and I
remember putting a post onFacebook or MySpace or something
back then and I said, hey, Ihave found Jesus.
(28:13):
I know a lot of you are goingto fall off because you don't
believe what I believe, but justknow that I love you, I want
you in my life.
You know something like that.
And I realized I starteddropping them because there were
a lot of people that couldn'tgo or didn't want to go where I
was headed, didn't want to livea life of integrity, didn't want
to be a man of character, and Ijust shed them.
(28:34):
I had to Uh.
But thank God that I did uh,because a short time later which
I'll tell you about later withmy son, the Lord directed me in
a way that if I had not donethat prior, I wouldn't have the
tool belt to do what he asked meto do.
Steve Sargent (28:51):
Wow, wow, my goodness, um amazing to see you
know.
I sit here, I listen to storieslike yours and it just um man,
it's so awesome, the power ofstory and testimony to see God
at work and how people encounterhim in spite of themselves.
It's amazing, it's refreshing.
(29:14):
Um, yeah, so I want to get to,uh, dad link and and and talk
about that, but before we,before we do I mean you
mentioned, you know, youmentioned your son and you know
let's go there.
I mean tell, talk to us alittle bit about, yeah, just you
know, fatherhood and then maybethe, the evolution of, of dad
(29:36):
link.
Michael Fineman (29:37):
Yeah, the, the the coolest thing I've ever done
in my life is be a dad.
I love being a dad and I'veloved every stage of it, from
poopy diapers to, you know, 18year old, you know, and 15, when
they talk back and you know, totest in the boundary.
I just love being a dad andI've been very intentional.
(29:58):
Um, I'm super close with my son.
Most people that know me.
The first thing they would tellyou if you say, oh, you know
Mike Feynman, they would say, oh, yeah, he's so close with his
son Because a lot of dads lookat that relationship and they
want it.
And it's interesting whenpeople come up and say, oh,
you're so lucky to have thatrelationship with your son and
(30:21):
he's such an amazing young manand I say I agree, he's amazing,
but I'm not lucky.
It's not lucky.
Yeah, that was intentionalityand that was my son's
intentionality in learning howto be obedient and being
obedient, just like Jesus said,I only do what I see my father
does.
I only say what I hear myfather say.
I taught my son that very young, that if we can model that
(30:45):
together, if I model that andthen you model that man, our
life is going to be amazing,like if we can do that together.
He didn't know what I wastalking about when I started,
but I also, you know, I alwaysbelieved in being a little bit
ahead of your child, so I wasreading to him and playing music
, guitar for him when he was aninfant, when he couldn't
(31:05):
comprehend what was going on.
I always started these thingsbefore it was time with him and,
again, that's an intentionality.
So I found myself separated.
When he was five, I'm in anapartment he's probably six or
seven at this point.
Uh, now I'm divorced.
(31:25):
I'm looking at him playing withLegos on the floor and we had
just had to pull him out ofschool.
Uh, because he was beingbullied so bad he literally had
a breakdown.
So we pulled him out.
I'm looking at him, I, I, Ididn't know what to do.
I was working 12 hours a daywhen I didn't have him.
I had him 50, 50 and I ended up.
The Lord guided me to drop myjob, which was the scariest
(31:47):
thing I'd ever done.
I had a company, car company,laptop company, phone.
I got home dropped off.
I realized I have nothing now,you know, and what have I done?
Thank God, I had been diligent,I had money saved, we were okay
and I figured okay, six months,I'll get him back, I'll go eye
to eye with him, I'll get himstraight and then I'll get back
(32:08):
to it.
It took four years.
So during that time though inthe beginning, as I'm watching
him play with his Legos, I'm I'mstarting to write down who I
want him to become, and firstI'm thinking you know, what kind
of man do I want this boy tobecome?
And I start writing it down,and then I start writing more,
and then, three days later, I'mstill journaling and I'm praying
(32:29):
and I'm journaling and workingthrough all these things.
I finally get to the pointwhere I'm really tuned in with
the Lord and I'm like journalingwhat we call two-way journaling
where I'll write down mythoughts, I'll put the pen down
until the Holy Spirit startsspeaking, I don't write again,
and then I try to keep up,because it's amazing when you
get that download.
(32:50):
So I asked him what to do andhe said if you want him to
become that man, then you haveto become that man, because he's
going to follow whoever you are.
And I was floored.
I never thought of that.
I didn't.
You know, more is caught thantaught is so powerful.
(33:10):
I realized I had to become a manof integrity, and I already was
honest, I already was truthful,I was a justice guy, but I mean
it had to be every part of mylife.
Honor, integrity, character,truth had to be non-negotiable
on every level, if that's who Iwanted him to become, and so
(33:33):
that's what I did.
I started to work on myself andI started to get some coaching
right From some of theseself-help guys.
Dan Miller wrote a book called48 Days to the Work you Love and
one of my best friends gave itto me and I read that book and I
rediscovered the things I usedto love, you know, writing,
reading all these things.
I had put on the back burner tobe a provider.
(33:53):
I now was stuck at home with noincome, trying to figure out
what to do with my life with no,no income, trying to figure out
what to do with my life, and Irediscovered myself, reinvented
myself by allowing the Lord torenew my mind, restore my heart
and build me really, really findmyself as that new creation and
grab onto that and started tolead my son, and that's how it
(34:16):
started, yeah.
Steve Sargent (34:18):
I want to ask you a question, cause some, some
people are are listening.
I'm sure going.
You know this guy's referenceshearing from the Lord, like you
know, getting a burger at, at atyou know, mcdonald's, um, you
know, I don't know, and, um, youknow, and and I, um, I sit here
, you know, not thinking thatI'm like, yep, I get it.
(34:40):
You mentioned, you know youreferenced two-way journaling
and sitting and listening tohear God.
For our listeners that might beskeptical, would you tell us a
little bit about that?
Is God speaking to you audibly?
Are you hearing him?
Is are you in the word?
Are you you know?
Is it?
Are you sensing conviction?
Are you?
What do you mean when you sayyou're hearing from God?
Michael Fineman (35:02):
Yeah, the word says be still and know that I'm
God.
That was our instructions forgetting close to him, and as men
we're busy man.
It's hard to get still, butwhen you do and you're in your
own thoughts your own thoughtsif you're seeking him only last
about 20 minutes and then youget past your own thoughts.
(35:25):
And so two-way journaling was avery powerful tool that I got
early on to learn how to journaland hear from him.
And the way I knew it was himis that the vernacular was not
my own and often had scriptureburied in it or within it,
things that I had read, seedsthat I had planted that come up
(35:47):
later and so often when I wouldbe and reading scripture was a
big part of that or even justlistening.
I like to listen to videos, Ilike to listen to certain
pastors.
Of course it forces me to gocheck the scripture that they
mentioned, right, but often whenyou're reading a scripture
you'll start to get thisdownload and you'll an analogy
or something will pop up in yourmind that is related to the
(36:10):
scripture.
And if you'll be still in thatmoment for as long as it takes,
that's not easy, but I meansometimes it takes three or four
hours.
You know, hearing from the Lordis not like you and I having a
conversation right, or all of usjust talking.
It sometimes takes days to get adownload weeks to get a
(36:30):
download from the Lord, andsometimes I'm not even clear on
what he said for six months.
Steve Sargent (36:36):
Yeah, so well said.
I thank you.
Thank you for unpacking that.
It's well said, mark, and Italk about it all the time when
we for years I mean with aunique aspect of our
relationship together, becausewe journey together so closely
in the Lord and with the Lord,along with a few other men you
know five of us now a littlegroup we call Victorious
(36:57):
Together and our listeners haveheard a lot about it, but
because we journey together inthe scriptures and in various
devotionals and in our livestogether, god occasionally does
something mind blowing.
Where you know our Bible reading, this random devotional and
some other resource that landsin our lap like three, four
(37:20):
something from Justin Kemp sixresources, usually something
from Justin camp, right Like,lands in our lap the same day
and it's the same verse and thesame message, and the you know,
and, and we're looking at eachother going.
You're hearing this from God.
Right, like this for you, likeyou like, wake up, mcfly.
Michael Fineman (37:40):
Like yeah, exactly.
Steve Sargent (37:42):
You get that Right, yeah, and um, hearing,
hearing from the Lord, right and, and um, especially in
community, there've been timeswhere you know, like Mark sends
me, he's like you're hearingthis right, like you've been
praying for this clarity, you'vebeen asking for the and, and
usually it's like yup, alreadythere, way ahead of you, like
I'm with the Lord, now going,you know.
Mark Vesper (38:03):
Leave me alone.
Steve Sargent (38:05):
But not always.
Sometimes I'm like oh my gosh,like I'm so thick, you know, and
blind to it, like thank you,yeah.
So thank you, yeah, thank you,that was great to talk that
through.
Mark Vesper (38:15):
I just wanted to say early on you talked about
Mike Michael not wanting to beput in a box.
Yeah, not wanting to be put ina box.
Yeah, I love when I do that toGod.
It's like I do a show up andthrow up right the kind of
prayer you just like, blurtingout everything you say, and then
I sit there and go okay, god,your turn, okay, this is your
moment to talk to me.
Steve Sargent (38:33):
I don't have a lot of time here.
Mark Vesper (38:36):
So, yeah, yeah.
Michael Fineman (38:38):
I often say yeah, I was praying, okay, I was
complaining, but whatever.
Mark Vesper (38:44):
Love it.
Michael Fineman (38:45):
You know, I'd love to reference a book.
A friend of mine wrote thatI've given away a ton of copies.
It's called hear God's voiceevery day and it's by Cindy
Edgett and it's on Amazon aswell.
Uh, but that book goes throughprobably seven to 10 chapters of
different methods of hearingfrom the Lord.
And it was.
(39:06):
It's such a powerful book andshe lives local, wow.
So I'll meet people and I'llit'll set me up for another
visit with them.
I'll say I want to bring youthis book, I'll have her sign it
, she'll pray over it, she'llgive a scripture the Lord gives
her and I'll hand it off to them.
Steve Sargent (39:26):
And I do this pretty often with her, wow so um
.
Michael Fineman (39:28):
I'd love to connect.
I'd love to connect with her.
I'd love to know if she's opento we've had some.
Steve Sargent (39:30):
We've had some female guests and they're great.
Michael Fineman (39:33):
Oh yeah, she's awesome.
Steve Sargent (39:34):
And we just sit and listen.
Yeah, okay, yeah, right, um.
So, yeah, gosh man, I there'sso much here.
So, we're running out of time.
I want to be sure we get to DadLink, so tell us a little bit
about what it is you know and,yeah, what God's up to in your
(39:54):
life right now.
Michael Fineman (39:55):
Yeah.
So on my path I became amotivational speaker.
I got to meet Les Brown.
He and I started a companytogether with some other people
and I started learning how to bea speaker and spent a lot of
time with him in his home.
So I learned a lot just bybeing with him.
But I speak about being a dadand it's almost like a record
(40:17):
skip at some of these eventsthat are all about how to make
money or how to be a speaker orhow to grow your real estate
business, and then I come up andI talk about how important it
is to be a dad and I'm nottrying to sell anything.
So it's kind of funny how thatworks.
But I realized when I learnedhow to change my filter from my
earthly father to my heavenlyfather and was able to actually
(40:38):
receive him as my dad, myheavenly father, that I had
something that most men did nothave, especially fatherless, and
I had a real heart forfatherless boys because I wasn't
fatherless but I didn't havewhat I needed and I knew the
impact on my life from that.
So I was starting a programcalled Identity University to
help these young men and youngwomen.
(41:00):
We see the problems withidentity today and I got
redirected by the Lord to nowwork with the fathers, because
if I'm not helping the fathers,there's no generational change,
there's no trajectory change inthe family, it's just this one
kid.
And so I started working withdads.
Now I had what they call Iforget what they call it, but
(41:23):
basically imposter syndrome.
Sure, who am I to tell anotherguy how to be a dad?
And what gave me permission todo that was the comments I get
from people when they see my sonand I together, and I realized
how many men wanted what we had.
So I started to build on that.
I started to kind of tiptoearound it.
(41:45):
As I was helping other peoplebuild their online programs and
got into all this kind of work,I realized I needed to build it
in a way that I could help moremen, and so the dad link is the
overarching method, overarchingbusiness, but we're building
underneath it several programs.
So we have an online communitycoming up for the dad link where
(42:07):
men can come together.
We're going to have meetingsand we'll be able to open up and
talk about what it means to bemen.
They'll have access to othermen that like ourselves, men
that have learned that havewalked, but I'm going to learn
from them too.
I'm not done.
I ABC, to mean, does not alwaysbe closing.
I think it's always becoachable and I want to always
be coachable.
So we're building a group wherewe can all walk side by side.
(42:30):
I struggled to monetize it, tobe honest with you, because I
just felt like it should besomething I did as ministry, but
I can't afford to time wisebecause my time is so valuable
right now.
I had to figure out a way tomake it produce, at least to
fulfill the production of theother things I want to do Right,
and so we're going to build theonline community.
(42:50):
I'm building a course right nowcalled Get Dad Certified.
It's a dad certification courseand based on biblical
principles of being a father,but also I have the advantage of
having grown up in the world.
But also I have the advantageof having grown up in the world
and so I can see both sides ofthe coin, which I think gives me
a unique advantage and a uniqueviewpoint to be able to help
(43:11):
men that maybe are new believers.
You and I talked about it theother day or have heard all
these things about you know,gosh, you have this perfect
father in heaven, but they'relooking at their earthly father
and they go yeah, I know allabout dads, there's no perfect
dad.
I mean, come on Like most dadsdo and fill in the blank
whatever my dad did.
(43:32):
So I want to help men changetheir filter.
I tell them well, you need afilter.
Change man, like we've got tochange your filter, so that you
can see who he really is,because he is the perfect father
.
And if you can get past yourunderstanding and your
experience of what a father is,you're going to you are will no
longer be an orphan, literallyson and help their way into
(44:08):
being a father, which willchange and break.
You know the dynamics of of ofpast chains, past broken
relationships, the cycle of notbeing a good father that goes on
for generations and families.
You can be the game changer,you can be the one that changes
that, and I've.
I've not only walked it out,but now I'm going to build a
place where I can walk it outwith a lot of other men.
Steve Sargent (44:29):
So you referenced this and I just want to call it
out for our listeners.
I mean, it's the dadlinkcom.
You can check it out.
There is a cost.
You know, I'll be honest, likelooking at the site I wasn't
really sure and I know you'remaking some changes to the site.
Michael Fineman (44:44):
Yeah, we haven't launched it yet.
So you there is a dad link,sign up there for for interest.
But we're launching probablywithin the next 90 to 120 days.
But I'm revamping everything inthe background.
I'm doing a lot of marketresearch right now, talking to a
lot of dads just to make surethat it's not what I think they
need.
I want to hear what thestruggles are.
(45:05):
I think I know what they are,but I'm going to speak to
basically a hundred men beforeI'm done to really find out what
their struggles are so that wecan design this to actually help
with the current needs.
Mark Vesper (45:16):
Yeah, so put us on the list, yeah.
Steve Sargent (45:19):
Yeah, so if anybody wants to know more, you
could go to the dad linkcom, youknow, put your information in
and Michael will be in touchwith you.
And yeah, that's, that'sawesome.
So, mark, any any final.
Mark Vesper (45:32):
Well, there's something on the website I
really love, because when yousaid the other day, hey, we're
going to Sarge and I wereplanning to talk this morning,
he goes, hey, we're going totalk to Michael Feynman instead
of just each other, I'm like,well, who the hell is Michael
Feynman?
And?
And so he's like look at dadlink.
So when I pulled it up, michaelI and I love this, it's, it's
(45:52):
subtlety, your name it saysMichael Feynman, d A D instead
of PhD it's capital D small,that's awesome.
Michael Fineman (45:58):
You know, yeah, thank you.
Mark Vesper (46:00):
Yeah, just that creativity said made me want to
look at the rest of your site.
Whether it's everything youhoped it would be doesn't matter
, and I do have questions aboutwhat it could do.
But maybe we could get togetherand talk another time.
I'd love to.
I don't have any more questions, but I can't tell you how
valuable this was for me.
I have four boys.
They are men, they're my boys,but the youngest is 26 and
(46:21):
oldest is 38.
But I wish I had met you about20 years ago is what I'm
thinking when I'm done.
But thank you very much forjoining us.
Yeah, you're welcome.
We appreciate it.
We're blessed.
Michael Fineman (46:32):
Thank you for having me, it's been great.
Steve Sargent (46:34):
Yeah, thank you, michael.
I appreciate you being here.
Thank you for your transparency.
Thank you for, yeah, justsharing your whole story, right.
No, you for, yeah, just sharingyour whole story, right.
No, no posturing, no masks.
I mean, this is your story andit's it's a beautiful one, and
how God has worked and moved andbeen faithful through it all
and um, and was always there.
Right, was always there, and Ithink that's a really important
(46:57):
message that people need to hear, like, whether you've
recognized it or not, you knowhe was there, he was, he was
holding your hand when youdidn't have one to hold and
carrying you through, and soit's beautiful and love, just
the relationship you have withyour son and cheering you on
with with the dad link.
So I'd love to keep in touch,obviously, and maybe have you
(47:18):
back on once you launch and wecan let let the world know about
it.
Michael Fineman (47:21):
That would be great.
I would appreciate that.
Steve Sargent (47:24):
Awesome.
Thanks, michael.
Yeah, peace, brother, and thankyou for listening to another
episode of Foxhole SymphonyPodcast and we hope you're all
blessed and dads lean into theonly perfect dad there ever was
and stay close.
Stay close to him, amen.
Bless you, peace.
The Maestro (47:47):
This is a peek behind the curtains of Michael's
life, and what I saw was God'srelentless and gentle and
guiding grace that ultimatelybrought his son back home where
he belonged.
God loved on him in ways thatfilled the gaps his mom and dad
left behind and developed a wiseman who is now on fire for
(48:08):
sharing those beautiful gifts hereceived.
Are you still wondering if Godcan't meet you where you are?
And I am convinced that nothingcan ever separate us from God's
love.
Neither death nor life, neitherangels or demons, neither our
(48:28):
fears for today nor our worriesabout tomorrow, not even the
powers of hell can separate usfrom God's love.
No power in the sky above or inthe earth below.
Indeed, nothing in all creationwill ever separate us from
God's love that is revealed inChrist Jesus, our Lord.
(48:49):
That's not my words, that'sGod's words.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Steve Sargent (49:11):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to theFoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(49:33):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove.
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Steve Sargent (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Mark Vesper (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
The Maestro (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Mark and Steve are in thefoxhole today and they have a
special guest joining them.
Plot twist, he's different, yetthe same.
(00:49):
You know what time it is, getcomfortable, open your notes app
and let's get this symphonystarted.
Steve Sargent (00:56):
Hey welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with my goodfriend Mark.
Hey buddy.
Mark Vesper (01:02):
What's happening bro?
Steve Sargent (01:03):
Oh my gosh.
Mark Vesper (01:04):
Back in the foxhole .
Steve Sargent (01:06):
You know the answer to that.
Michael Fineman (01:07):
There's a lot happening.
Steve Sargent (01:08):
It is moving at the speed of light, as usual.
Mark Vesper (01:12):
This is your chance to slow down.
Steve Sargent (01:14):
You know what, we're going to slow down a
little bit and I'm grateful thatwe've got a great guest in the
foxhole today and, um, because,uh, we'll talk about, you know,
a future podcast, all the thingsthat God is up to, uh, in our
lives today really want to focuson our, on our guests.
So I'm going to jump right inand introduce Michael Feynman.
(01:36):
Uh, michael and I connectedrecently, I don't know a month
and a half or so ago, and havesince then bumped into each
other at a men's conference, asmall men's conference called
Godfident, which was really cool, and we're like, hey man, we,
we, you know, we actuallyprobably have more in common
than maybe we even realized.
And so we reconnected again andhere he is, and so I'm not
(02:00):
going to get into the wholeintro, cause that'll unfold
throughout.
But, michael, welcome.
Glad you're in the foxhole withus, bro, thank you.
Michael Fineman (02:08):
It's great to be here with you guys.
Steve Sargent (02:12):
So I'm going to just go out and say, like,
actually, the thing that comesto mind is you know, michael, we
don't have a lot of Jewishguests.
In fact, I don't think we'vehad any Jewish guests.
You're our first, and I know.
When we spoke, you know, uh,you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm a
Jew, and you know I love Jesus,and you know, and, and you were
like, yeah, people try to put mein a box.
(02:32):
I remember you saying that like, oh, people say, oh, so you're
a messianic Jew.
Well, I, you know, you can putme in a box if you want.
I love Jesus and he's my savior, and I'm like.
I was like, oh, man, that is so, so rich.
So tell us a little bit more.
Man, I just want to jump rightinto your story.
So you were born, and then what?
Michael Fineman (02:51):
Yeah, I was born, uh, born Jewish, and then
got born again later.
But you know, uh, I considermyself a completed Jew because,
you know, judaism is a heritageand nationality.
You can't just shut that off,right.
So, but after finding theMessiah, which, you know, most
Jews are still praying for, Iconsider myself a completed Jew.
(03:13):
And I often joke that I get thedouble blessing, you know, but
I'm not really joking, that'sright the way I love the Lord.
I'm like, yeah, I got thedouble blessing and I stand on
all the gifts and authority thathe's given me.
I'm walking in it.
Steve Sargent (03:27):
I love it.
Michael Fineman (03:28):
I love it.
Steve Sargent (03:29):
I've completed you.
I love that and yeah, and I dounderstand.
I mean I kind of laughed, but Ialso picked up on the
seriousness a little bit whenyou said phrase.
Michael Fineman (03:43):
I think overall people try to put religion in a
box completely and coming fromreligion, coming into Jesus,
it's freedom.
So when people you know, oh,are you non-denominational, are
you Baptist, are you?
No, no, dude, I'm, I justfollow Jesus, and they're like,
yeah, but but what denominationare you?
Yeah, a guy that follows Jesus,maybe disciple.
Steve Sargent (04:04):
Yeah, exactly, apprentice of Jesus.
Mark Vesper (04:08):
Exactly, I love it.
Steve Sargent (04:09):
Listen, we need more of that.
We need more of that right Likestrip away all the boxes and
the layers and the the obstaclesand the silos, and it's just,
you know gospel's simple.
Michael Fineman (04:19):
It's easy, it's not complicated, it is really
basic, until we get in themiddle of it and then it's
become something that never wasmeant to be.
But it's really complicated, itis really basic until we get in
the middle of it and then itbecomes something it never was
meant to be.
But it's really simple.
And you know, the one thingthat always rings in my mind is
they will know you by your lovefor one another is what Jesus
said right.
And so when I'm out and aboutand you're the same way, you
(04:39):
know, at the conference I sawkind of how you were and how I
am and we're very similar.
In that very outgoing youconference, I saw kind of how
you were and how I am and we'revery similar.
In that very outgoing you know,I hug almost every guy I meet.
I love you, bro.
You know, I'm not afraid tojust be who I am, uh, and still
be a man at the same time, andthat's right.
You know, I think a lot of guyswere taken back by that, which
is great Cause that opens thedoor.
Steve Sargent (04:59):
Yeah, yeah, so tell, tell us um, so you know so
obviously you live in Florida.
Michael Fineman (05:10):
That's how we met here, local to me.
Where'd you grow up?
I grew up in, I was born inWashington DC.
I grew up in several boardingschools, so my story is one that
could sound one way butactually is another.
And so I grew up.
My mother had brain cancerwhile I was a baby and my
brother was a year and a halfold, and at that time I was
(05:31):
three and my mother passed, andshe was 29 years old before she
passed away.
And, interestingly enough, shegrew up in this area of Florida.
Uh, and later I met several ofher friends and learned a lot
about her.
But as she was passing, shesaid to my father, who was then
(05:52):
30, hey, find a mommy for myboys.
My boys are going to need amommy, and I set you free and
when I go, I want you to findsomebody.
And so my dad is a verypractical man.
He's, he's a loving guy, butpractical comes before love in
his mind, and it's just the wayhe's wired.
It used to make me angry.
Now I've completely forgivenhim and I just see him for who
he is and love him for who he is.
And so in his mind, his job wasto go find a wife, so he was
(06:14):
working full time out at theoffice.
He was dating a lot at night.
And so, at three years old,after losing my mother, we were
being raised by a nanny whodidn't speak much English and he
wasn't around much.
And it's not his fault.
I don't look at it that way.
He I think he was doing what heknew to do and was trying to do
the right thing, as if a fatherwas out working his you know,
(06:35):
his to the bone, hands to thebone just to get food on the
table.
He was doing what he felt wasright for his family, and so he.
That's what happened.
But but the the consequence ofthat was my brother and I didn't
have a mother.
We were raised without thatnurturing.
We were raised without, youknow, something that little kids
(06:56):
need very, very much.
So in the formidable years iswhen he started, you know,
introducing us to someone thathe was going to marry.
I'm five years old now, so heends up marrying her at five and
something was off.
I knew it immediately.
I didn't know what it was, butsomething was off.
I didn't feel comfortable withher.
I was a little bit skeptical ofthe whole thing.
(07:17):
But again, I'm five.
So I started asking questions.
Now I'm five, now I'm getting alittle bit of consciousness,
right, what was my mommy'sfavorite ice cream?
What was her favorite color?
Right, and I'm calling her myreal mom.
And then I'm calling my stepmommy new mom, right, and at that
time I'm five.
So it was probably saying mommy, right, tell me about my real
mommy.
(07:37):
What did she like, what did shedo?
So at some point my father cameto my brother and I said listen,
and more to me, because I wasmore cognitive at the time he
said we're hurting your newmommy's feelings by always
talking about your old mommy.
So we're going to kind of putthat stuff away.
We're not going to talk aboutthat, we're going to focus on
our new family, our new nucleus,and this is what we're going to
(07:58):
focus on.
Well, when a child can'tcommunicate their feelings, they
act out because they don't knowhow to communicate.
So that's what happened.
I started acting out, I startedpushing back, and my stepmother
became very abusive not startedverbally, but then became
physically abusive, and she wasvery frustrated.
(08:19):
And later, you know, the Lordshowed me that she had just gone
through a tough childhood,which I didn't know at the time,
obviously I'm a kid, but by thetime I was seven, I was in an
institution, locked up and likebuzz doors, padded rooms, you
know, straight jackets if youwent off, like scary place for a
seven-year-old and there waskids up to 17 in this place,
(08:41):
same dorm, wow.
So it was shocking to my system, to say the least.
And I was in there for a littlebit and they booted me out.
They're like, hey, wrong kid,send this kid home.
And they put me back in again.
Uh, same place, maybe three orfour months later.
And then from there I was inthe system, boarding school to
(09:02):
boarding school, to boardingschool, whichever place would
take me, until they said to mydad hey, you've got to take him
out, he doesn't belong here.
Because I always stood out inthese schools as someone who
helped other kids, because I wasin this situation and I didn't
know what to do except serve.
Now, I wasn't a believer, Ididn't know anything about this.
I just knew that there was kidsthat were so broken in this
(09:25):
place and I was not.
And so, instead of you know,woe is me I became a very
outgoing, helpful, good ear fora lot of friends and and knew
everybody in the school.
That's who I just became Um.
And so then at 15, we're in thejudge's chambers, uh, and the
(09:45):
judge looks at my record and helooks at my father and he says
hey, I see what you're doinghere.
You have taken him from placeto place.
I'm looking at therecommendations, I'm looking at
the.
You know all of the things andyou can't do this anymore.
It's time to transition himinto the home.
And my father looks at me andhe says well, there's going to
be some rules, young man.
I said oh heck, no, no, no, no,no.
(10:05):
I looked at the judge.
I said, sir, the day you dropme off, I'll go AWOL.
And if you bring me back, I'llgo AWOL that day too.
I knew he couldn't place me.
So if I said that, because I'vebeen in the system eight years
now.
So the judge looks at me and hesays okay, so you know the
system, you know I can't placeyou.
What do you suppose I do?
And I said you know what?
(10:26):
Put me in juvie till I'm 18.
I'll figure it out.
And so he looks at my dad and hesays you understand that your
son just chose jail over cominghome.
I don't know what kind ofenvironment is going on, but I'm
not putting him in jail.
I'm looking at these reports.
I'm not putting him in jail, sowe need to come up with
something else.
And so my father said well, hecan go live on a kibbutz in
(10:48):
Israel, which is like a communebasically, but I knew I'd have
to serve in the military.
Imagine how I felt aboutauthority at that point in my
life Not interested.
Or you could go live with yourgrandmother in Palm Beach.
It's my biological mother'smother that lives in Palm Beach
and I'm like Palm beach, I'mgoing to Palm beach, so I get
(11:11):
here and she's been here.
She's been widowed 20 years.
She lives in a one bedroomapartment and really doesn't
believe in air conditioning andso.
But she loved me.
She became the mother.
Steve Sargent (11:24):
You're like?
Is that Israel option stillopen?
Michael Fineman (11:33):
Yeah, exactly Uh, and.
But she loved me and she tookcare of me and she mothered me
in a way that I'd never beenmothered at, which is really
interesting because my aunt toldme all her life she was a tough
business woman, but she meltedwhen I got here and she hadn't
had a lot of communication withme over those eight years.
My father didn't allow it.
So, you know, I stayed with herfor about three months.
Now again I was in the system.
(11:54):
I'd come home reeking ofmarijuana.
You know I was already smokingcigarettes full time.
You know I I had been in with abunch of kids who belonged in
these places for a long time butmanaged to keep my nose
somewhat clean and I got my ownplace.
So my dad helped me outfinancially a little bit.
I got a little efficiency andat 15, I was on my own.
(12:15):
I was in high school, I had amotorcycle, I had a couple jobs.
I worked on the weekends, Ipumped gas at night, I would do
whatever I could to make moneyand I went for it.
Mark Vesper (12:29):
Wow, yeah, pause, yeah, I'm going to take a deep
breath, but the whole time youwere talking, what happened to
your brother during these decade?
Michael Fineman (12:39):
Yeah, he did a little bit better with receiving
our stepmother Okay, but herbrokenness eventually didn't
allow for that and he ended upin military school, which he got
kicked out of.
Then he went into the militarybecause in military school he
had met a girl whose father wasin the military and kind of took
(13:01):
him under his wing to try tostraighten him out, and he got
kicked out of the military too.
So he he failed pretty, prettymiserably and, and unfortunately
, all of my siblings, none of us, were able to maintain a solid
marriage.
All of us got divorced, allfour of us.
They had two after us, um, andyou know some of them are on
(13:23):
their second marriage.
I'm still single.
I haven't.
I haven't remarried, um, butthe damage that was done was
pretty obvious.
Mark Vesper (13:31):
Yeah, wow, thank you for your honesty.
Steve Sargent (13:35):
Appreciate that, yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean my gosh, um, you know,I'm just thinking like going
back to five and the.
You know the pain that youreferenced right, like not
knowing you know, at five, six,seven, what to do with that, and
you know.
(13:56):
So I'm curious, like I mean,where along the way did you, if
you did, did you get to kind oflearn more about your mother?
I mean, was that with your,your grandmother, or you know
what did that look like?
Michael Fineman (14:11):
Yes, yeah, when I moved to Florida, you know, I
was with my aunt uh, who is hersister, my cousins uh and my
grandmother, and so they told melots of stories about her.
But then I was dating a girl.
She was 10 years older than meand she at 17,.
She was working in a uh, adental lab and her boss, the guy
(14:34):
that owned the business, wasfriends with my mom in high
school, actually doubled on theprom date, you know, with his
date and her and her date andknew all about her.
And I took him to lunch, he andhis wife, and they just
downloaded they I mean, theywere friends with her for years
after that too.
So I learned so many thingsabout my mom and it's
(14:54):
interesting the similarities.
But also I came away very proudof her.
She was outgoing, she reallydanced to the beat of her own
drum, but she was one of thosepeople that had a massive
network and loved and was lovedby a lot of people.
Steve Sargent (15:09):
Yeah, what a gift .
I mean honestly, like I meanfor for God to you know, plant
you in that, in that space.
Yeah, getting across the tablefrom you know this businessman.
I mean what a gift to receivethat download.
I mean God's hand clearly inthat right.
(15:30):
I mean I imagine you're justglued and just consuming and you
know, I imagine there's just somuch healing there.
Michael Fineman (15:39):
I've been craving that information since I
was five.
Steve Sargent (15:42):
Right, so how old were you at that point?
Michael Fineman (15:45):
You're 17.
I was probably, you know,between 17 and 19, somewhere
right in there.
Yeah, amazing, oh my gosh.
Yeah, Now interestingly enough,right after that and I was very
active in doing a lot of thingsat that point, I was in a speed
metal band.
I was trying to be a pro uh,knee border, uh.
So I was water skiing all thetime.
I already had a boat at thatpoint and um, but interestingly
(16:09):
enough, I went down with Crohn's.
At that point I had to havesurgery and they never figured
out.
You know, they didn't know whatwas going on.
They just did exploratory backthen.
But you know, disease isdis-ease and I think a lot of
you know.
If you look at the root causeof Crohn's, spiritually, it is
(16:30):
guilt, shame, rejection, right.
So I lived all of that reallywell.
But I want to go back a littlebit to the schools that I grew
up in, because the story maylook like which I told at first
hey, they locked me up and threwaway the key.
The truth is, god put me thereand he told me this later, which
you know some of the hardesttimes in our life become some of
(16:52):
the best learning places in ourlife.
And so when I asked him, youknow I was exasperated.
I didn't know God at the time,but when I was starting to be
introduced to him and, uh, I wasactually going to church and I
was 30 now and married.
I started asking him questionsabout it.
You know why would you do thatto a kid If you're this awesome
(17:13):
God, you're this perfect father,and I'm asking some pretty raw
questions, coming into believing?
And he said I needed you to beset apart for what I had for you
.
And I didn't know what thatmeant until later when he
reiterated and went deeper onthat.
But that's all he said and Ididn't know what set apart meant
(17:34):
.
I didn't know Christianese atthat point.
I don't know what he's talkingabout, but that's what he said.
He said I needed you to be setapart.
And I was fathered by probably30 guys that were staff members
in these places that saw who Iwas and just wanted to for lack
of a better term just wanted tolove on me and care for me as
(17:56):
staff members and pour into me.
So I had guys that taught mehow to play guitar.
I had guys that taught me aboutwhat it means to be chivalrous.
He used to sit me down and we'dwatch Humphrey Bogart movies
and he'd say now, don't light acigarette and don't slap her.
But all this other stuff I needyou to learn.
You know, and it was amazingbecause you know.
Now I'm a very standoutchivalrous guy, and so is my son
(18:17):
.
I taught him those same skillsets and it's maybe a lost art,
but, uh, much appreciated inthis world today.
Steve Sargent (18:25):
Wow, incredible.
So you so you, you know, Ithink around 30 or something
like that you get uh, I thinkyou were dating right and get
invited to a church to tell us alittle bit more about, like,
how did you begin to discoverwho God was?
God?
Michael Fineman (18:43):
Yeah, so in my twenties I lived my childhood
out, but I had money, so that'sa little dangerous, right?
Uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, I was, uh, I was a party animal
basically.
Um, I didn't, I only drank forprobably about five years of my
life, but I drank enough rum toofficially be a pirate.
I'm sure it was downtown inClematis, in West Palm, when all
(19:05):
that was just coming up and allmy buddies had built that out.
So I had VIP everywhere, whichprobably wasn't great either.
And I went through asemi-self-destructive childhood
moment there where I really justpartied my head off and I was
chasing girls.
I had five girlfriends at atime, all the time, because I
was seeking to fill theGod-sized hole.
(19:26):
I didn't know that at the time.
At the time it looked like Iwas living life to the fullest.
My friends could not believeyou know how awesome my life was
.
But truthfully, I was verylonely the whole time and
looking back I realized you knowyou say, oh, I caused a wake of
broken hearts, but the amountof damage I did to myself in
that time was just as bad, maybeworse.
(19:47):
And so at about 30, I'm just,I'm done dating.
I'm like this is stupid.
I have.
You know, girls are everywhere.
I don't care about any of them.
You know, there's nothing, it'sall shallow, there's nothing
valuable.
You know I'm not looking todrink, I don't care about that,
it makes me feel like crapanyway.
And I just, you know, I'm goingto get married.
(20:08):
And so I met uh, it's funny.
My roommate at the time saidhey, she's not just going to
walk in the door, but this womancame in to do a health exam on
me and I was buying extra lifeinsurance because I was flying
airplanes, I was a scuba divemaster, I was wakeboarding, I
mean, I was doing lots of thingsthat could get me hurt and I
didn't want to be a burden.
(20:29):
So she came over to draw myblood and I ended up marrying
her, and so she had three kidsand she converted to Judaism to
please my parents for thewedding.
I knew that wouldn't work.
I wasn't sure exactly why shedid it, but I didn't fight it.
My parents just didn't like her.
But my parents didn't likeanybody, so I didn't think
(20:52):
anything of it.
You know I was like, yeah,they're hard on everybody.
But after about a year and ahalf of the marriage she said
you know, you don't, we don't goto synagogue.
And I'm like, nah, I'm Jewish,but like I really don't do any
of that.
And she said I want to go tochurch.
And I'm like, go ahead, noproblem, you know, and again, I
know nothing about God, nothingabout anything that has to do
(21:13):
with God.
So every Sunday she would takegreat until she wanted me to
come and one of the things thatshe used to say to me often was
(21:34):
you really don't know what itmeans to be a good dad and I
need you to be a spiritualleader.
I had no idea what she wastalking about, but part of that
is you need to take the kids tochurch.
And I fought it, and fought it,and fought it and finally I said
, okay, whatever, we went toChrist Fellowship and back then
they had a horn section.
I think it was.
Michael Neal was leading it andit was.
(21:56):
I mean, it was just lift you up.
John Maxwell would preach, someof the time Coach Mullins was
preaching.
So I went in and it was myfirst experience with actually
speakers period, and I wasenamored.
I said the music is amazing.
The message is, you know, legit.
Like that's some good lifeadvice right there.
(22:17):
I'm okay with that.
I'll go sometimes and that ledto me going every week.
But I would not give myself tothe Lord, I would not submit to
Jesus.
Because I was looking at allthese hypocritical Christians
that said they were Christiansbut I only saw it in church.
Outside of that, their life, Ididn't see any.
There was no Jesus in them.
Andrew Womack says if they gotarrested for being a Christian,
(22:37):
there wouldn't be any.
There was no Jesus in them.
Andrew Womack says uh, if theygot arrested for being a
Christian, there wouldn't beenough evidence to convict them.
And you know, and, and that'swhat I was seeing, so I knew
that I could just be a Christianon Sunday, like they were.
So that's what I did.
And it took seven years ironicnumber for me to give my life to
the Lord.
(22:57):
It happened when we moved upNorth, uh, to the Carolinas for
a couple of years and and that'swhen I laid it down.
Steve Sargent (23:05):
Wow, so how long ago was that now?
Michael Fineman (23:09):
That was when my son was one, so he was, or he
was, an infant.
So, yeah, about 18,.
Well, about 18 years ago he'sgoing to be 18 tomorrow.
Wow, yeah, wow, cool.
Yeah, well, about 18 years ago,he's going to be 18 tomorrow.
Steve Sargent (23:20):
Wow, yeah, wow, cool, yeah, unbelievable, my
goodness.
I mean you just see, see God'shand in in in all of this, of
course, right, um, throughoutthe, the.
You know, of course, thevalleys, the suffering, the, the
, the self-induced pain, right,and, and and you know how God
redeems that and and and youknow, just bringing bringing
(23:40):
healing, learning about yourmother in this miraculous way,
and then you know thisrelationship, wow, I mean
incredible.
So I'm sure, once you came tothe Lord, I mean everything was
perfect.
Yeah, of course.
Michael Fineman (23:58):
Yeah, no, the marriage started failing pretty
quickly at that point.
Uh, the last five years werepretty brutal and I hung on, uh,
because I believe somethingthat wasn't true about, uh, a
scenario with her kids and Ididn't want to leave them
hanging, basically, uh, but Godhad a plan and a lot of that had
(24:19):
to do with my son, I'm sure,and for those five years it was
he and I.
I would take him everywhere.
My, my son's mom didn't reallylove to do a lot of activities.
I had that boy strapped to myback, took off, you know, and
just loved being a dad.
It was a great, great time of mylife, yeah, but it was
difficult and I a lot of thingscame up from childhood, you know
(24:39):
it.
But it was difficult and a lotof things came up from childhood
, you know, psychologically andemotionally and spiritually, and
I was saved at that point.
But I didn't know Jesus, I justknew about him, yeah, and when
we split and we got separated,my first knee-jerk reaction was
go back to my old lifestyle,started hanging out with a bunch
(25:00):
of party girls.
You know, here we go again andthat lasted maybe a month and I
just kind of shook my head andI'm like, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
I don't want this life for myson, I don't want this life for
me.
So I crawled into one of thechurches that we had bounced
through and just laid down.
Let the Lord minister to me,and I often think about you know
(25:22):
, when Jesus came out of thedesert, how the angels attended
to him.
That's how I felt, you know,looking back, yeah, so what,
what role?
Steve Sargent (25:32):
you know, mark and I, as you know, are always
talking about the, the, thetransformational value of being
an authentic Christian community.
Um, and so I'm curious like how, or if that that happened for
you.
Like what, what did that looklike for you?
Did you get plugged in?
Were you discipled?
How did what role did communityplay, if any, in really, you
(25:58):
know, knowing Jesus?
Michael Fineman (26:00):
Yeah, interesting how that worked.
So what I did know at that timeI was really starting to
understand business and I wasnow listening to Les Brown and
and Zig Ziglar and Jim Rohn andyou know I'd been introduced to
this from John Maxwell.
So now I'm listening to allthese guys.
(26:20):
Well, I'd read a book calledthe Millionaire Next Door and
they talk about finding a mentorto help you get where you want
to go.
And so I'm in this church, I'mlooking around and I see these
guys that are just straight upguys and I became friends with
them.
I befriended them.
There was one guy in particular.
I was serving in children'sministry at this time, doing
(26:42):
leading, praise and worship forthem and teaching and really
diving in.
You know, this is a couple ofyears after landing there, and
one of the guys that I servedwith in children's ministry was
such an amazing dad.
I literally asked him if hewould mentor me in being a
father.
The funny thing is he said I'llpray about it and never came
back to me.
Now today, 15 years later,we're best friends.
(27:06):
We own businesses togetheralong with another guy I met
there and we talk about thatoften Now I know him.
He just won't come back if theLord doesn't lead him to.
But because we became friendsand he asked me to help one of
his kids with a business project, I got to witness how he
fathered by being close to himand in fact we joke that I'm an
(27:30):
honorary family member and I doa lot with their entire family.
But now all of his kids havegone to Bible school, some of
them to Bible colleges, some ofthem.
They all live very close,within vicinity of their house,
and they all are just still thistight knit, super close family
(27:50):
that I want to emulate.
And it is because of myrelationships and connecting
with men that I saw were thekind of men I wanted to become.
I just knew to surround myselfwith the right group, and so I
intentionally surrounded myselfwith the right group and I
remember putting a post onFacebook or MySpace or something
back then and I said, hey, Ihave found Jesus.
(28:13):
I know a lot of you are goingto fall off because you don't
believe what I believe, but justknow that I love you, I want
you in my life.
You know something like that.
And I realized I starteddropping them because there were
a lot of people that couldn'tgo or didn't want to go where I
was headed, didn't want to livea life of integrity, didn't want
to be a man of character, and Ijust shed them.
(28:34):
I had to Uh.
But thank God that I did uh,because a short time later which
I'll tell you about later withmy son, the Lord directed me in
a way that if I had not donethat prior, I wouldn't have the
tool belt to do what he asked meto do.
Steve Sargent (28:51):
Wow, wow, my goodness, um amazing to see you
know.
I sit here, I listen to storieslike yours and it just um man,
it's so awesome, the power ofstory and testimony to see God
at work and how people encounterhim in spite of themselves.
It's amazing, it's refreshing.
(29:14):
Um, yeah, so I want to get to,uh, dad link and and and talk
about that, but before we,before we do I mean you
mentioned, you know, youmentioned your son and you know
let's go there.
I mean tell, talk to us alittle bit about, yeah, just you
know, fatherhood and then maybethe, the evolution of, of dad
(29:36):
link.
Michael Fineman (29:37):
Yeah, the, the the coolest thing I've ever done
in my life is be a dad.
I love being a dad and I'veloved every stage of it, from
poopy diapers to, you know, 18year old, you know, and 15, when
they talk back and you know, totest in the boundary.
I just love being a dad andI've been very intentional.
(29:58):
Um, I'm super close with my son.
Most people that know me.
The first thing they would tellyou if you say, oh, you know
Mike Feynman, they would say, oh, yeah, he's so close with his
son Because a lot of dads lookat that relationship and they
want it.
And it's interesting whenpeople come up and say, oh,
you're so lucky to have thatrelationship with your son and
(30:21):
he's such an amazing young manand I say I agree, he's amazing,
but I'm not lucky.
It's not lucky.
Yeah, that was intentionalityand that was my son's
intentionality in learning howto be obedient and being
obedient, just like Jesus said,I only do what I see my father
does.
I only say what I hear myfather say.
I taught my son that very young, that if we can model that
(30:45):
together, if I model that andthen you model that man, our
life is going to be amazing,like if we can do that together.
He didn't know what I wastalking about when I started,
but I also, you know, I alwaysbelieved in being a little bit
ahead of your child, so I wasreading to him and playing music
, guitar for him when he was aninfant, when he couldn't
(31:05):
comprehend what was going on.
I always started these thingsbefore it was time with him and,
again, that's an intentionality.
So I found myself separated.
When he was five, I'm in anapartment he's probably six or
seven at this point.
Uh, now I'm divorced.
(31:25):
I'm looking at him playing withLegos on the floor and we had
just had to pull him out ofschool.
Uh, because he was beingbullied so bad he literally had
a breakdown.
So we pulled him out.
I'm looking at him, I, I, Ididn't know what to do.
I was working 12 hours a daywhen I didn't have him.
I had him 50, 50 and I ended up.
The Lord guided me to drop myjob, which was the scariest
(31:47):
thing I'd ever done.
I had a company, car company,laptop company, phone.
I got home dropped off.
I realized I have nothing now,you know, and what have I done?
Thank God, I had been diligent,I had money saved, we were okay
and I figured okay, six months,I'll get him back, I'll go eye
to eye with him, I'll get himstraight and then I'll get back
(32:08):
to it.
It took four years.
So during that time though inthe beginning, as I'm watching
him play with his Legos, I'm I'mstarting to write down who I
want him to become, and firstI'm thinking you know, what kind
of man do I want this boy tobecome?
And I start writing it down,and then I start writing more,
and then, three days later, I'mstill journaling and I'm praying
(32:29):
and I'm journaling and workingthrough all these things.
I finally get to the pointwhere I'm really tuned in with
the Lord and I'm like journalingwhat we call two-way journaling
where I'll write down mythoughts, I'll put the pen down
until the Holy Spirit startsspeaking, I don't write again,
and then I try to keep up,because it's amazing when you
get that download.
(32:50):
So I asked him what to do andhe said if you want him to
become that man, then you haveto become that man, because he's
going to follow whoever you are.
And I was floored.
I never thought of that.
I didn't.
You know, more is caught thantaught is so powerful.
(33:10):
I realized I had to become a manof integrity, and I already was
honest, I already was truthful,I was a justice guy, but I mean
it had to be every part of mylife.
Honor, integrity, character,truth had to be non-negotiable
on every level, if that's who Iwanted him to become, and so
(33:33):
that's what I did.
I started to work on myself andI started to get some coaching
right From some of theseself-help guys.
Dan Miller wrote a book called48 Days to the Work you Love and
one of my best friends gave itto me and I read that book and I
rediscovered the things I usedto love, you know, writing,
reading all these things.
I had put on the back burner tobe a provider.
(33:53):
I now was stuck at home with noincome, trying to figure out
what to do with my life with no,no income, trying to figure out
what to do with my life, and Irediscovered myself, reinvented
myself by allowing the Lord torenew my mind, restore my heart
and build me really, really findmyself as that new creation and
grab onto that and started tolead my son, and that's how it
(34:16):
started, yeah.
Steve Sargent (34:18):
I want to ask you a question, cause some, some
people are are listening.
I'm sure going.
You know this guy's referenceshearing from the Lord, like you
know, getting a burger at, at atyou know, mcdonald's, um, you
know, I don't know, and, um, youknow, and and I, um, I sit here
, you know, not thinking thatI'm like, yep, I get it.
(34:40):
You mentioned, you know youreferenced two-way journaling
and sitting and listening tohear God.
For our listeners that might beskeptical, would you tell us a
little bit about that?
Is God speaking to you audibly?
Are you hearing him?
Is are you in the word?
Are you you know?
Is it?
Are you sensing conviction?
Are you?
What do you mean when you sayyou're hearing from God?
Michael Fineman (35:02):
Yeah, the word says be still and know that I'm
God.
That was our instructions forgetting close to him, and as men
we're busy man.
It's hard to get still, butwhen you do and you're in your
own thoughts your own thoughtsif you're seeking him only last
about 20 minutes and then youget past your own thoughts.
(35:25):
And so two-way journaling was avery powerful tool that I got
early on to learn how to journaland hear from him.
And the way I knew it was himis that the vernacular was not
my own and often had scriptureburied in it or within it,
things that I had read, seedsthat I had planted that come up
(35:47):
later and so often when I wouldbe and reading scripture was a
big part of that or even justlistening.
I like to listen to videos, Ilike to listen to certain
pastors.
Of course it forces me to gocheck the scripture that they
mentioned, right, but often whenyou're reading a scripture
you'll start to get thisdownload and you'll an analogy
or something will pop up in yourmind that is related to the
(36:10):
scripture.
And if you'll be still in thatmoment for as long as it takes,
that's not easy, but I meansometimes it takes three or four
hours.
You know, hearing from the Lordis not like you and I having a
conversation right, or all of usjust talking.
It sometimes takes days to get adownload weeks to get a
(36:30):
download from the Lord, andsometimes I'm not even clear on
what he said for six months.
Steve Sargent (36:36):
Yeah, so well said.
I thank you.
Thank you for unpacking that.
It's well said, mark, and Italk about it all the time when
we for years I mean with aunique aspect of our
relationship together, becausewe journey together so closely
in the Lord and with the Lord,along with a few other men you
know five of us now a littlegroup we call Victorious
(36:57):
Together and our listeners haveheard a lot about it, but
because we journey together inthe scriptures and in various
devotionals and in our livestogether, god occasionally does
something mind blowing.
Where you know our Bible reading, this random devotional and
some other resource that landsin our lap like three, four
(37:20):
something from Justin Kemp sixresources, usually something
from Justin camp, right Like,lands in our lap the same day
and it's the same verse and thesame message, and the you know,
and, and we're looking at eachother going.
You're hearing this from God.
Right, like this for you, likeyou like, wake up, mcfly.
Michael Fineman (37:40):
Like yeah, exactly.
Steve Sargent (37:42):
You get that Right, yeah, and um, hearing,
hearing from the Lord, right and, and um, especially in
community, there've been timeswhere you know, like Mark sends
me, he's like you're hearingthis right, like you've been
praying for this clarity, you'vebeen asking for the and, and
usually it's like yup, alreadythere, way ahead of you, like
I'm with the Lord, now going,you know.
Mark Vesper (38:03):
Leave me alone.
Steve Sargent (38:05):
But not always.
Sometimes I'm like oh my gosh,like I'm so thick, you know, and
blind to it, like thank you,yeah.
So thank you, yeah, thank you,that was great to talk that
through.
Mark Vesper (38:15):
I just wanted to say early on you talked about
Mike Michael not wanting to beput in a box.
Yeah, not wanting to be put ina box.
Yeah, I love when I do that toGod.
It's like I do a show up andthrow up right the kind of
prayer you just like, blurtingout everything you say, and then
I sit there and go okay, god,your turn, okay, this is your
moment to talk to me.
Steve Sargent (38:33):
I don't have a lot of time here.
Mark Vesper (38:36):
So, yeah, yeah.
Michael Fineman (38:38):
I often say yeah, I was praying, okay, I was
complaining, but whatever.
Mark Vesper (38:44):
Love it.
Michael Fineman (38:45):
You know, I'd love to reference a book.
A friend of mine wrote thatI've given away a ton of copies.
It's called hear God's voiceevery day and it's by Cindy
Edgett and it's on Amazon aswell.
Uh, but that book goes throughprobably seven to 10 chapters of
different methods of hearingfrom the Lord.
And it was.
(39:06):
It's such a powerful book andshe lives local, wow.
So I'll meet people and I'llit'll set me up for another
visit with them.
I'll say I want to bring youthis book, I'll have her sign it
, she'll pray over it, she'llgive a scripture the Lord gives
her and I'll hand it off to them.
Steve Sargent (39:26):
And I do this pretty often with her, wow so um
.
Michael Fineman (39:28):
I'd love to connect.
I'd love to connect with her.
I'd love to know if she's opento we've had some.
Steve Sargent (39:30):
We've had some female guests and they're great.
Michael Fineman (39:33):
Oh yeah, she's awesome.
Steve Sargent (39:34):
And we just sit and listen.
Yeah, okay, yeah, right, um.
So, yeah, gosh man, I there'sso much here.
So, we're running out of time.
I want to be sure we get to DadLink, so tell us a little bit
about what it is you know and,yeah, what God's up to in your
(39:54):
life right now.
Michael Fineman (39:55):
Yeah.
So on my path I became amotivational speaker.
I got to meet Les Brown.
He and I started a companytogether with some other people
and I started learning how to bea speaker and spent a lot of
time with him in his home.
So I learned a lot just bybeing with him.
But I speak about being a dadand it's almost like a record
(40:17):
skip at some of these eventsthat are all about how to make
money or how to be a speaker orhow to grow your real estate
business, and then I come up andI talk about how important it
is to be a dad and I'm nottrying to sell anything.
So it's kind of funny how thatworks.
But I realized when I learnedhow to change my filter from my
earthly father to my heavenlyfather and was able to actually
(40:38):
receive him as my dad, myheavenly father, that I had
something that most men did nothave, especially fatherless, and
I had a real heart forfatherless boys because I wasn't
fatherless but I didn't havewhat I needed and I knew the
impact on my life from that.
So I was starting a programcalled Identity University to
help these young men and youngwomen.
(41:00):
We see the problems withidentity today and I got
redirected by the Lord to nowwork with the fathers, because
if I'm not helping the fathers,there's no generational change,
there's no trajectory change inthe family, it's just this one
kid.
And so I started working withdads.
Now I had what they call Iforget what they call it, but
(41:23):
basically imposter syndrome.
Sure, who am I to tell anotherguy how to be a dad?
And what gave me permission todo that was the comments I get
from people when they see my sonand I together, and I realized
how many men wanted what we had.
So I started to build on that.
I started to kind of tiptoearound it.
(41:45):
As I was helping other peoplebuild their online programs and
got into all this kind of work,I realized I needed to build it
in a way that I could help moremen, and so the dad link is the
overarching method, overarchingbusiness, but we're building
underneath it several programs.
So we have an online communitycoming up for the dad link where
(42:07):
men can come together.
We're going to have meetingsand we'll be able to open up and
talk about what it means to bemen.
They'll have access to othermen that like ourselves, men
that have learned that havewalked, but I'm going to learn
from them too.
I'm not done.
I ABC, to mean, does not alwaysbe closing.
I think it's always becoachable and I want to always
be coachable.
So we're building a group wherewe can all walk side by side.
(42:30):
I struggled to monetize it, tobe honest with you, because I
just felt like it should besomething I did as ministry, but
I can't afford to time wisebecause my time is so valuable
right now.
I had to figure out a way tomake it produce, at least to
fulfill the production of theother things I want to do Right,
and so we're going to build theonline community.
(42:50):
I'm building a course right nowcalled Get Dad Certified.
It's a dad certification courseand based on biblical
principles of being a father,but also I have the advantage of
having grown up in the world.
But also I have the advantageof having grown up in the world
and so I can see both sides ofthe coin, which I think gives me
a unique advantage and a uniqueviewpoint to be able to help
(43:11):
men that maybe are new believers.
You and I talked about it theother day or have heard all
these things about you know,gosh, you have this perfect
father in heaven, but they'relooking at their earthly father
and they go yeah, I know allabout dads, there's no perfect
dad.
I mean, come on Like most dadsdo and fill in the blank
whatever my dad did.
(43:32):
So I want to help men changetheir filter.
I tell them well, you need afilter.
Change man, like we've got tochange your filter, so that you
can see who he really is,because he is the perfect father
.
And if you can get past yourunderstanding and your
experience of what a father is,you're going to you are will no
longer be an orphan, literallyson and help their way into
(44:08):
being a father, which willchange and break.
You know the dynamics of of ofpast chains, past broken
relationships, the cycle of notbeing a good father that goes on
for generations and families.
You can be the game changer,you can be the one that changes
that, and I've.
I've not only walked it out,but now I'm going to build a
place where I can walk it outwith a lot of other men.
Steve Sargent (44:29):
So you referenced this and I just want to call it
out for our listeners.
I mean, it's the dadlinkcom.
You can check it out.
There is a cost.
You know, I'll be honest, likelooking at the site I wasn't
really sure and I know you'remaking some changes to the site.
Michael Fineman (44:44):
Yeah, we haven't launched it yet.
So you there is a dad link,sign up there for for interest.
But we're launching probablywithin the next 90 to 120 days.
But I'm revamping everything inthe background.
I'm doing a lot of marketresearch right now, talking to a
lot of dads just to make surethat it's not what I think they
need.
I want to hear what thestruggles are.
(45:05):
I think I know what they are,but I'm going to speak to
basically a hundred men beforeI'm done to really find out what
their struggles are so that wecan design this to actually help
with the current needs.
Mark Vesper (45:16):
Yeah, so put us on the list, yeah.
Steve Sargent (45:19):
Yeah, so if anybody wants to know more, you
could go to the dad linkcom, youknow, put your information in
and Michael will be in touchwith you.
And yeah, that's, that'sawesome.
So, mark, any any final.
Mark Vesper (45:32):
Well, there's something on the website I
really love, because when yousaid the other day, hey, we're
going to Sarge and I wereplanning to talk this morning,
he goes, hey, we're going totalk to Michael Feynman instead
of just each other, I'm like,well, who the hell is Michael
Feynman?
And?
And so he's like look at dadlink.
So when I pulled it up, michaelI and I love this, it's, it's
(45:52):
subtlety, your name it saysMichael Feynman, d A D instead
of PhD it's capital D small,that's awesome.
Michael Fineman (45:58):
You know, yeah, thank you.
Mark Vesper (46:00):
Yeah, just that creativity said made me want to
look at the rest of your site.
Whether it's everything youhoped it would be doesn't matter
, and I do have questions aboutwhat it could do.
But maybe we could get togetherand talk another time.
I'd love to.
I don't have any more questions, but I can't tell you how
valuable this was for me.
I have four boys.
They are men, they're my boys,but the youngest is 26 and
(46:21):
oldest is 38.
But I wish I had met you about20 years ago is what I'm
thinking when I'm done.
But thank you very much forjoining us.
Yeah, you're welcome.
We appreciate it.
We're blessed.
Michael Fineman (46:32):
Thank you for having me, it's been great.
Steve Sargent (46:34):
Yeah, thank you, michael.
I appreciate you being here.
Thank you for your transparency.
Thank you for, yeah, justsharing your whole story, right.
No, you for, yeah, just sharingyour whole story, right.
No, no posturing, no masks.
I mean, this is your story andit's it's a beautiful one, and
how God has worked and moved andbeen faithful through it all
and um, and was always there.
Right, was always there, and Ithink that's a really important
(46:57):
message that people need to hear, like, whether you've
recognized it or not, you knowhe was there, he was, he was
holding your hand when youdidn't have one to hold and
carrying you through, and soit's beautiful and love, just
the relationship you have withyour son and cheering you on
with with the dad link.
So I'd love to keep in touch,obviously, and maybe have you
(47:18):
back on once you launch and wecan let let the world know about
it.
Michael Fineman (47:21):
That would be great.
I would appreciate that.
Steve Sargent (47:24):
Awesome.
Thanks, michael.
Yeah, peace, brother, and thankyou for listening to another
episode of Foxhole SymphonyPodcast and we hope you're all
blessed and dads lean into theonly perfect dad there ever was
and stay close.
Stay close to him, amen.
Bless you, peace.
The Maestro (47:47):
This is a peek behind the curtains of Michael's
life, and what I saw was God'srelentless and gentle and
guiding grace that ultimatelybrought his son back home where
he belonged.
God loved on him in ways thatfilled the gaps his mom and dad
left behind and developed a wiseman who is now on fire for
(48:08):
sharing those beautiful gifts hereceived.
Are you still wondering if Godcan't meet you where you are?
And I am convinced that nothingcan ever separate us from God's
love.
Neither death nor life, neitherangels or demons, neither our
(48:28):
fears for today nor our worriesabout tomorrow, not even the
powers of hell can separate usfrom God's love.
No power in the sky above or inthe earth below.
Indeed, nothing in all creationwill ever separate us from
God's love that is revealed inChrist Jesus, our Lord.
(48:49):
That's not my words, that'sGod's words.
Lord, please continue to usethis podcast to impact the lives
of all who listen.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Steve Sargent (49:11):
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it
and invite others to theFoxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
(49:33):
make it super easy to find us.
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove.
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