April 4, 2025 • 37 mins
The statistics are shocking: only 41% of men report being satisfied with life, only 27% have six or more friends, and 44% of surveyed men reported suicidal thoughts in the previous two weeks. Male loneliness has become an epidemic with deadly consequences, linking directly to premature death, cardiovascular disease, dementia, and mental health struggles.
Steve and Mark dive deep into the cultural lies that keep men isolated: self-sufficiency that rejects help as weakness, self-promotion that creates carefully curated personas, and self-protection that builds walls against vulnerability. These barriers directly contradict the transformative power of authentic Christian community, where men find belonging, accountability, and growth.
Through personal stories and profound insights, they reveal how surrendering these self-centered defenses leads to breakthrough. When men gather in authentic community – taking off masks, speaking truth, and supporting each other – chains begin to fall away and healing flows. This transformation isn't just personal; it ripples outward to impact families, workplaces, and communities.
The hosts share a powerful insight from a recent men's conference where hundreds of attendees expressed three core desires: clarity of purpose, release from the past, and brotherhood with accountability. These desires, identified through AI analysis of participants' responses, perfectly align with what authentic community provides.
Whether you're struggling with loneliness or simply sensing there's something more to Christian brotherhood than surface-level connections, this episode offers practical wisdom for the journey. Stop believing you can thrive in isolation and discover how vulnerability transforms men's lives.
We have BIG plans at Foxhole Symphony and sure could use your financial support. Would you prayerfully consider a small monthly contribution to support us in our mission to catalyze transformation in the hearts of men? Support Our Mission
Find us at:
https://www.facebook.com/foxholesymphony
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Steve and Mark are in thefoxhole today and they are
talking about our struggles withloneliness.
(00:48):
You know what time it is?
Get comfortable, open yournotes app and let's get this
symphony started.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with Mark, mygood friend.
Good to see you, buddy.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey can you count up to 89?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
89?
89.
89 episodes.
It only took us 16 years.
No, not true.
No but it's funny, man, I can'tyou know.
We talked to so many podcastersand they're like oh yeah, we
drop.
You know twice a twice a week,you know once a week, whatever
you know.
(01:25):
And it's just, man, our rhythmof every other week has been
good for us.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And look at how the Lord, you know, turns and twists
and turns of life and it hasbeen such a blessing to just
have it every two weeks.
There are moments I'm reading adevotional going.
Ah man, I wish I was talking toSarge right now.
We could do it.
This is an episode.
How many dozens of times hasthat happened to you?
But at the same time, the rhythmof just you know, now that you
(01:52):
live in Florida, just seeing youand having a chance, I mean I
just want to talk to you.
So this is cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, amen, amen, god is honored by this time.
Yeah, well, hey, we're going tojump in and uh and talk about
just the reality of, um, youknow, isolation and loneliness.
We, we've talked about this alittle bit, uh in the past, uh,
maybe even a lot uh, as itrelates to, you know, our, our,
(02:17):
just the theme of FoxholeSymphony, and that is the the,
you know, authentic Christiancommunity and the
transformational value they'rein Right.
And so we, um, you know, thistopic has been on my mind and I
started looking at some, somestatistics.
And I wanted to start with thatbecause we've got a loneliness
epidemic in in in the U S?
(02:38):
Um, and you know, in fact, it'sso bad I don't even know that
we largely realize it's aproblem.
Some of us might, because itmaybe hits closer to home, and
others maybe not so much.
But here's just a fewstatistics I wanted to kick us
off with.
(03:00):
First of all, 41% of men ratethemselves as being satisfied
with life 41% 4 out of 10, asbeing satisfied.
Only 27% of men report havingat least six friends.
27% have at least six friendsand 15% report having not one
(03:23):
friend.
15% of men Suicide statisticsthere's tons of them.
I'll just focus on these couple.
80% of suicides are men.
Many may realize that, but 80%of suicides are men and 44% of
men surveyed reported havingsuicidal ideation in the last
(03:46):
two weeks.
That statistic, to me, is oneof the most alarming 44 percent
of men surveyed reported havingsuicidal ideation in the last
two weeks.
Come on, so you know, these aresome staggering statistics and
there's lots of data around thedirect correlation, the direct
(04:10):
connection between lonelinessand not only suicide but to
premature death, cardiovasculardisease, dementia, stroke, not
to mention anxiety anddepression.
So there are some significantfactors here.
Factors here, uh, as it relatesto to lonely, loneliness and
and and and isolation.
So I was at a conference lastweek, as you know, and one of
(04:34):
the first things they did atthis conference and this is this
is, uh, you know, I don't know500, a thousand Christian men,
mostly Christian men and, uh,they had these little puzzle
pieces on the tables and theystarted with this like, what is
it that you want to get out ofthis weekend?
Essentially, why are you here?
Why are you here Now?
This was not an intensive men'sweekend like we've talked about
(04:56):
in the past, like Mark Men forChrist or others.
This is a pretty generalgathering of men, some good,
solid speakers, but people thatjust you know looking to grow,
get together.
I mean, there's there's somesocial aspects, there were some
again, some speakers and thingslike that.
Not a deep dive, ok, right, well, men filled out these puzzle
(05:19):
pieces and then stuck them onthe wall and attached them to
basically make this piece ofartwork, this puzzle Right, put
this together and I took apicture of it, and actually a
guy I was with took a picture ofit and entered it into chat,
gpt to get an AI summary of thesentiment on these puzzle pieces
on the wall.
So cool, so cool.
(05:41):
Um, dude, it's's unbelievablewhat came out the messages on
these cards, so so.
So here's, here's the summary.
I'm just going to read it toyou.
This is a brief, brief portion.
I mean, hey, I hit, spit outthis huge report.
I'm just going to give you thehigh points it says.
Uh, these messages reveal a deepemotional undercurrent among
(06:04):
these men.
Beneath the surface, theirwords express three core desires
Clarity of purpose they want toknow why they are here and what
they're supposed to do next.
These men are tired of drifting.
They feel the need to step intosomething greater, but lack a
clear mission.
Number two, to somethinggreater but lack a clear mission
(06:27):
.
Number two release from thepast.
Many are carrying wounds, guiltor struggles that they know
they need to let go of but don'tyet know how.
And number three brotherhoodand accountability.
They don't want to fight alone.
They're searching for realconnections with other men who
understand their struggles.
They know isolation is killingthem, but they need a space
where they can be real withoutfear of judgment.
(06:50):
That was the summary from AI ofall these hundreds of puzzle
pieces.
These are the three coredesires from these men.
Is that mind blowing?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Were the puzzle pieces already written on or did
you have to?
No, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, no, no, no.
I mean, they were blank puzzlepieces that men were just.
All they said was why are youhere?
Got it?
Why are you here, like, are youkidding me?
Overwhelming.
And then they, I mean, it wenton.
I'll just a couple more bits.
It says the unspoken painbehind their words.
This is AI.
(07:25):
They feel stuck, isolated andrestless.
They don't want to just hearabout change, they want to be
transformed.
But transformation requiresaction and many of them are
standing at the edge, waiting tobe pushed.
Standing at the edge, waitingto be pushed.
(07:47):
The biggest question left forthem will they finally surrender
the war that's keeping themstuck and step into the battle
that actually matters?
I mean, come on, bro, these arenot my words, like no.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That's powerful stuff .
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right.
And so you know, I'm looking atthese statistics on loneliness,
looking at the statistics, thedata around health.
You know the direct correlationof loneliness.
You know these, these, these,these hundreds of puzzle pieces
on the wall in this, thisglaring summary of the core
desires and the emotional orundercurrent, and I'm saying,
man, that is what we're about,like, this is what we've been
(08:24):
talking about for the last fouryears.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Right, it's true.
And, by the way, december 23rd,september 23rd of 2021, our
third episode was called cavingup.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
December December of 2021, we started this.
One of the first three thingsyou and I wanted to talk about
was men's propensity for cavingup, going alone, being alone.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So here we are I mean right Like here we are, four
years into this episode 89, youknow 90 episodes and you know
this is an epidemic.
It's an epidemic and so youknow we remain passionate about
this topic.
And you know, because I thinknot only because it's an
(09:13):
epidemic, but you and I, mark,have seen the freedom I mean we
have.
We have leaned so far in tothis topic, not just on a
podcast but personally, with ourlives, right, launching,
fostering, facilitating groups,from Band of Brothers to
Foxholes to Victorious Togetherto Mark Mann, to every context
(09:36):
and environment.
I've been doing it in theworkplace, in the marketplace,
no matter where I am, no matterwhat it is.
I'm drawn to it because we'veseen the transformation take
place, we've seen the heartchange, we've seen what God does
when we take off the masks,when you know we lean in, when
(10:02):
we're willing to, you know, bevulnerable, open up our hands,
surrender, bring to the, bringto the foot of the cross, and
not only that, climb up on thecross and be crucified with
Jesus to have our wounds.
You know pain, whatever it isto put to death and to see.
You know and watch and hear Godsay okay, now we can get
(10:26):
started Now we can get startedand the chains begin to fall off
and the healing begins andthere's life transformation that
then, with the heart of thatone man, just sends ripples
through his community, beginningwith his family, community,
workplace, neighborhood, youknow other men, whatever it is.
(10:47):
And so we continue to lean in,to run in and watch God work in
that way.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Absolutely, and I, I, I need to say so I'm I'm
processing this and going backtrying to think of, like, what
was, what was my life likebefore I met you, before I met
the men I trust the most?
I, that 27% number stillresounding with me.
It's the only one I wrote downto your stats.
I think that's high.
I was surprised that 27% saidthey had six friends now.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
For me.
I have lots of acquaintances,my nature, my job.
Just I'm connected, right, I'mnetworked, as it said, but not
crazily so.
But I will tell you, there aresix men in my life who I think
would stop what they were doingand rescue me if I needed
rescued.
That's my definition offriendship.
(11:43):
That's what I need in my lifeNow.
I don't need buddies, I'm not.
I'm not.
But did you but?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
to your point.
Yeah, Before all of this, didyou have that?
I mean did you have six men,six friends, you know six men.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
No, and it began with an awakening.
There was an awakening catalystfor me that's my experience and
it was born from the church.
It was born from a life group.
My need to start the band ofbrothers was born from my
looking at us in a group ofcouples and parents and kids and
(12:17):
going, wow, none of these guysI mean these are?
These are guys I'd like to getto know better.
These are guys I'd like to seewhat God might have in store.
And, dude, it was totallyselfish.
I've admitted this how manytimes on the podcast.
It was me needing to beconnected.
I seek community.
I seek community like a guidedmissile, but but that, that
(12:42):
catalyst, that awakening.
I just want to say to to ourlisteners this is a journey of
falling on and off.
For me, that's surrendering, isdaily that you just referred to
.
There's a there's a constantfalling off track, getting off
track and and friends and theHoly spirit knocking me back on
track and just continuing thejourney day by day, one day at a
(13:03):
time.
Yeah, look, man, I'm 16 yearsolder than you and I am thinking
about the end of my career, theend of this, the end of that,
looking forward to what'shappening for me and Ria next in
our lives, so on and so forth.
Looking forward to what'shappening for me and Rhea next
in our lives, so on and so forth.
(13:23):
Thinking through those things,I have this will my friends be
with me to the end?
Those are the kind ofconversations I'm having in my
head and with God and I'm sureit's very different for you, I'm
guessing, given where you arein your life and we haven't
talked about this but where youare in your career especially,
you're in the explosive growthmode.
Right, I'm in maintenance mode.
Yeah, I'd like to take myvictorious together brothers to
(13:45):
my deathbed.
That's what I want.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And I'm going to act like a gentleman.
I'm going to to uh um, handlemy life.
I'm going to manage my day.
I'm going to seek the Lord eachday.
I'm going to keep my focuswhere it belongs on the cross.
I'm doing whatever I can aspart of God's plan for me to
ensure that those friendships,my community that I've chosen,
(14:10):
stays my community.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I'll fight for it man .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, so that's, that's where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, you'll fight for it and you'll fight for them
, absolutely, that's.
Yeah, that's where I'm comingfrom.
Yeah, you'll fight for it,you'll fight for them absolutely
, you know, I I think like,regardless of the different
stages we may be in now, backthen we were in the same stage.
That's true, that's right.
So it's very interesting, rightlike they were.
The common ground was you know,you're, you're seeking this,
you're knowing there's somethingmissing, you're, you're,
(14:38):
knowing, you were, you know,drawn to and made for more.
And what was missing was thatthat authentic Christian
community which, again, based onthe statistics, very common,
very common.
This is the common ground.
I mean, you have 500, you know700 men writing on these little
puzzle pieces and this that thesummary is you know 700 men
(15:01):
writing on these little puzzlepieces, and that the summary is
overwhelmingly clear and it's itcomes down to a lack of
authentic Christian community.
And so you know, I'm, I'm here,I am 16 years, you know,
younger, totally different stageof life, but looking for the
same exact thing going.
Something's missing, that'sreally important.
Yeah.
That's an important note yeah,yeah, and so it applies to you.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
If you're listening, it applies to you.
It doesn't matter, that's right.
You can text or call or email.
Either one of us will tell youour perspective, but it is the
same and we, we did start thatjourney together.
I'm proud to say and honored towalk it with you today.
It doesn't matter, I could careless what you're doing.
I mean, I love what you're doing, but that has nothing to do
(15:44):
with my continuing the deepdesire to find authentic
community through Christ withyou and share it with other men.
I mean, look, come on, we gotto model this.
This doesn't work.
Men aren't going to.
Those statistics aren't goingto change unless men like you,
like Sarge, rocket.
Sarge is out there out front.
(16:05):
That's where God wants you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah.
I believe, that and I just, youknow, listen, the other thing
that I think and we've touchedon this a little bit before, but
I think it's important to note,you know, cause there's,
there's a lot of people.
There's a lot of peoplethinking right now, they're
listening and they're saying,you know, I got, I'm surrounded
by people, right, and for you, Iwould say, how authentic is it?
How authentic are you in thoseenvironments?
(16:31):
And if you are, praise God andour others.
And if they're, if they're not,what can you do to, to to bring
them along and to continue tomodel authentic community, um,
and and and maybe maybe you'rethere and maybe you're
surrounded with so many people,the challenge for you is is is
to embrace solitude, right, Iwas there, I was there and to
(16:53):
understand that it's it's alsonot only okay to be alone, right
, but that you know Jesusretreated to be alone with the
father, and that that time iscritical, and so it's.
It's both, and this is not aneither or right.
There are those that are, uh,hey, listen, deeply connected to
the father, right, spendingtime with the Lord, um, and
(17:16):
still missing community.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right, cause they're happy they're, they're in their
comfort zone.
Right, you think you got it,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, I mean for whatever reason.
But then there's those thathave neither right.
It's just them, it's just thatthey're not.
They're not connected to thevine, they're not connected to
others, and it's, it's, it's.
Both are critical.
That's that's my point.
That's the point I'm trying tomake is that both are, you know,
critical aspects of being inhealthy relationship, healthy
relationship with God, so thatwe can be in, you know, healthy
(17:46):
relationship with others.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, and I would just say this is not a race.
It is not where everyone isstarting at the same time in the
same place, the same.
You know weather and you'rewhere you are.
You're where God has you todayand in some cases that quite
possibly could be a very messyplace.
Right, we, we Sarge you, and Iknow a lot of guys that came
from the gutter to glory right,it's beautiful and others that
(18:12):
are, you know, good, just good,church guys.
The guys you see around.
They look good, happy, handsome.
You know everything's good.
Now, how are you doing?
Fine, right, and knowing theytoo need authentic community,
they need other men around them.
It could be to your point largegroup, small group there's a
lot of different ways to do this.
We've chosen a certain way todo it and find fruit in that.
(18:34):
Right, we have richconversations and strong
relationships.
Honesty you know just the depthof candor that we bring.
You know, in our circles, themen that we have chosen to be
closest to is amazing to me, ifyou had asked me 20 years ago if
this were where God would haveme today.
(18:54):
Not in a million, and I didn'tknow what I was doing.
Don't wait for the rule book.
There's no playbook.
Well, there is.
It's called the Bible.
But you know, if you're a guylike me who loves planning and
wants to write it down and lovespreadsheets, don't wait for
your spreadsheet.
If someone had been around totell me, I don't know, I may
(19:16):
have found this faster, but Isleep really well with where God
has me and the journey I'm on,knowing it will last until my
last day.
I'll still be seeking, I'llstill be surrendering.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, I think it's important, you know, cause it's,
it's it's one thing to say like, oh, just go do it Right.
Like there are barriers thereare, there are absolute.
You know there are barriers,there are absolute.
You know obstacles in the wayof getting to a place of
authentic Christian community,and some of them are really
simple, but some of them are alittle more complex.
But you know there are threethat I've been thinking about
(20:06):
that all revolve around self,that are, I would say, common
barriers and you know they're,they're all rooted in in in our
woundedness, but they are so uh,of the world, they're so common
in our culture and in fact,they're even.
They're not just common,they're, they're, they're um,
they're promoted, they're,they're, we're trained in this,
we're, we're.
You know, we're brought up inthis, and it's self-sufficiency,
self-promotion andself-protection, or
(20:28):
self-preservation,self-sufficiency, self-promotion
and self-preservation, right.
So, self-sufficiency, I, I gotthis right, you got this.
You can do.
You know, you gotta, you gottado it.
Nobody's going to do it for you.
Right, you gotta do it, yeah,right, and, and it's you know,
and, and to need others is to beweak, right, this idea of
(20:50):
independence, so like, so that'snumber one.
Self self-promotion, right,like I mean, come on, I mean we,
we, I mean you know, the worldis self-promoting, it's just,
you know, get on any socialmedia.
It's just.
Like, I mean, it's unbelievable, right, everybody's an expert,
everybody's a, you know, a guru,everybody's an influencer,
(21:15):
everybody.
You know, it's like, it'sincredible, it's insatiable.
And guess what?
Like, we want it, we want it,we want to be glorified, our
flesh wants to be praised, wewant to be lifted up, we want to
be seen, we want to be seenright by the world.
And this is dangerous, it's aslippery slope.
So this, you know, it is notbiblical, it's not biblical.
(21:37):
Biblical, it's not biblical.
I mean, look at philippians 2,look at, read matthew 6.
You know, like, you know thethe idea of self-promotion is I,
I, I've had conversations withpeople about this.
They're like, what do you mean?
It's not biblical?
Like it's that we've been thatcoerced, you know, and and to to
(22:01):
believe that.
You know, uh, we should beelevated.
So, anyway, and then theself-protection piece, and this
is the piece that the selfprotection, self-preservation,
like you know, is reallyslippery.
This is probably theslipperiest, the most slippery,
(22:21):
slipperiest Slippers.
There are scriptures obviouslyaround us protecting right.
Protecting our families,protecting the vulnerable, those
who can't speak up forthemselves.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Right A friend giving his life for a friend.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
yeah, yeah, there are countless scriptures about God
as our refuge, our strength, ourprotector, and so, you know,
this idea of vulnerability, whenit comes down to authentic
Christian community, it requiresvulnerability.
Into these conversations withpeople about this and they're
like well, like, does God reallywant us to be vulnerable?
(23:02):
Like, where does the wisdom?
Well, yes, it requires wisdom,yes, it requires discernment.
But, man, I just can't help butlook back at the life of Jesus.
I can't help but look at thelife of Jesus and and and and
see what he did for us and whathe modeled for us, you know, did
for us and what he modeled forus, you know.
Look at the life of thedisciples, like you know, I mean
(23:31):
, listen, peter of all people,right, peter of all people,
rejected Jesus when faced withdanger, right, in the spirit of
self-protection, right, feartook over, he hid.
I, I, I get it, I get it.
Uh, I've lived it.
But that's why we need eachother to call each other into
that and by continuously,because, left in my own devices
and my own flesh, I don't knowthat I've got the courage, I
(23:52):
don't know that I've got thecourage to continuously step
into this place of vulnerability.
So the more more we practice it, the more we do it with one
another, the more our livesreflect just this, this, this,
the, the sacrifice and the, thealmost invitation of, you know,
(24:13):
suffering again, to kind ofclimb up on the cross and be be,
you know, climb up on the crossand be, you know, crucified
with Jesus and then, and onlythen, you know are we fully
surrendered to him and he says,okay, now we can get started.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Now we can get started.
Wow, you're hitting so manythings that are in my head.
Right, so we are agreeing.
The ultimate surrender wasJesus, Jesus's death on the
cross, ultimate.
We've also talked many, manytimes about the need to
surrender daily, moment tomoment.
I'm thinking of the threethings you just mentioned
preservation, promotion, etcetera and the key, the common
denominator, is the word self.
(24:54):
Therein lies the problem for me.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Really, I mean, I feel like you're taking a hammer
hitting me right in theforehead, because the the
hardest part of this journey forme is getting outside myself,
to stop making myself the centerof the universe.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Stop, stop, you know just yeah, well, yes, and so how
right it's, it's, it's, itrequires this awareness of why
that is what is happening.
That causes us to go back to itLike a dog returns to its vomit
.
It's our wounds.
It's our woundedness.
What is the wound?
What is what happened thatstill needs healing?
(25:35):
That causes us to lean awayrather than lean in right, to be
cynical, untrusting,self-centered and highly
susceptible to rejecting God inhis ways.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Am I willing to surround myself with men who
will call me on my stuff?
And Justin Camp is the one whochanged my heart on this.
He said authentic communitydoesn't bring you around men who
call you out, they call you in,and that is an important
(26:10):
distinction that you're myvulnerability with you or yours
with me.
On the night I met you, yourdecision to do that level of
vulnerability that knocked mebackwards on my ass to the point
where I ran from you.
Yeah, for weeks you scared thecrap out of me, like what the
hell is this going on on myfront porch and praise the lord
(26:37):
that I somebody, dude, it wasnot me.
I've got goose flesh all overmy body right now.
I, it was not me, it was thelord and smart men around me.
Yeah, this is what it's like,this is what I need, and you and
that vulnerability.
I've only talked about thatepisode in our lives.
(26:58):
Besides with you and me, withanyone listening to the podcast
in praise, look where we are 20years later.
Yeah, because I wasn't, youknow, calling you out for your
weakness and your woundednessand vulnerability, but we
together were called in into thespirit.
So I think that distinction isreally important for folks that
(27:21):
are concerned about where theyare and what this mess looks
like.
You know, when they look in themirror, what do they see and
what do they think others seewhen the world is shouting at
you it's okay to self-promote,it's okay to self-preserve, it's
all okay to be self, self, self, self-improvement, self-help,
self, all day long, frombillboards to news.
(27:45):
Right, stop me now.
Yeah, am I shouting at you?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Within the church.
Within the church, you know, Imean we're not talking about
just, you know, people thatdon't know God.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Within the church this is a common, you know,
within the body of Christ, wedon't.
This is what I'm saying.
I don't know that we even seeit.
Most of the time it's thatslippery, you know, and it's a
tactic of the enemy.
The enemy's going oh yeah, thisis this, is I got them right
where I want them?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's loosely veiled in the church and covered by a
lot of different things there.
That's a whole differentpodcast, I think.
But, but, but I'm not.
I'm not saying the church isbad, I'm saying that there are
phonies at my job and there arephonies at my church.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's all.
Absolutely.
Listen, we're humans and we'resusceptible, no matter where we
are or or.
You know what we believe we'resusceptible to.
You know, sin.
We're susceptible to sin, andbut we've got to recognize it as
sin.
That's the.
It starts there, you know, andthat's what I'm saying.
Like it's slippery, like reallyWell, self-promotion, like I,
(28:55):
you know, like I'm driven, well,yeah, be driven toward what and
why?
What's your motivation, what'syour heart?
It's your heart posture, youknow.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, there's so many lies, but again, probably
another deeper podcast.
I would say this for me, myreal practical experience with
this is often wondering and youand I have talked about this
about taking this podcast on theroad, about speaking out in
public about what we believe andwhat we feel and what we feel
(29:26):
called to feel and what we feelcalled to.
And I still and I haven't doneit very much at all except in
small groups and small weekendsbut I do think about the
self-promotion part of that.
I'm guilty of pride, the pridemonster.
I carry on my, you know, thebackpack I carry around every
day that I've got to drop in mybedroom before I head out for
(29:47):
the day and I'm worried aboutgoing out, you know, and start
talking about what I see andfeel and believe in my heart,
worried that there's aself-promotion happening there.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So, yeah, that's my fear.
Going back to that AI summaryof those puzzle pieces clarity
of purpose, release from thepast, brotherhood and
accountability.
We talk a lot about all threeof these, but they're connected.
All three of those areconnected, right?
The clarity of purpose we justtalked about, you know, wanting
for yourself to drop in thatbackpack, like if we don't wake
(30:19):
up in the morning and know whyGod gave us breath and we don't
leave the house on mission forhim, then we're going to be on
mission for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Amen, that's a good word.
Stop Say it again.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
That clarity of purpose is so critical?
Because if we don't wake up andknow why God gave us breath and
leave on mission with Him eachday, we will be on mission for
ourselves.
And the challenge is what I seemost men doing is trying to
balance the two.
There's no balance in our humanflesh, our human strength
(31:00):
there's.
That'll drive us bonkers.
That's why these men 500, 700men show up writing on these
puzzle pieces that very thing aschristians, because they're
trying to do both.
They're trying to build theirown kingdom and still honor God
and build his Listen can't bedone.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
No, stop now, Right.
Stop hitting your head, andthen it's the release in the
past.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So it's the mission.
We can't get to clarity ofpurpose and be on mission
without the release from thepast, without understanding the
wounds we carry, the things, thevery things you just talked
about, the things that get inthe way, right, if we have
awareness of those and we don'twalk through those and get
healing from those, then wecan't be on mission.
And then, and only then, right,and maybe both of those things
(31:47):
can happen, not maybe they do.
Both of those things happen.
The release from the past, theclarity of purpose, the mission
happen in the context ofauthentic community.
And they require vulnerability,they require accountability,
they require support and and andyou know, and all of a sudden,
(32:09):
when we do this, suddenly wefind that our greatest needs are
met Right, so we're trying tomeet our needs as a result of
our woundedness, on our own, inour own self-sufficiency, our
own self-promotion, you know,our own self-protection.
Right protection, right To beseen when, if we just surrender
(32:31):
and die to ourselves, weactually get the very thing that
we needed to begin with, and weget it in the most holy and
godly way, and that is to beseen with no judgment, nothing
but God's love and grace and allof a sudden there's peace and
there's joy, right and we're onmission, and so again, we keep
(32:51):
bumping up against them.
They come up and they, you know, you get a left hook here and
there, and that's why we, youknow, we need our community to
lift us back up, brush us off.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Absolutely For Sarge.
In closing, for me, I'll tellyou that we promised men and
women almost four years ago thatthis podcast would focus on
authentic community, showingpeople where they could find
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
That's right, since we'vealready beat the accountability
thing to death.
(33:21):
Today I'm here to telleverybody listening that the
sense of belonging that comesfrom this investment you're
going to make and the growth inyour spirit, in your personal
lives, at home, at work, in yourneighborhood, at your church,
it's worth it.
It's great.
It's not good, it's greatPutting God in the center and
(33:42):
surrendering that sense ofbelonging to something special,
something united, and the growththat comes from that.
I think you, like me and Sarge,will be shocked and surprised
in a good way, what God might dowith you and how he might grow
(34:02):
you if you do this.
The ROI is supernatural.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Amen.
That's all I got.
Listen, that's more than enough, more than enough.
So, uh, listen, I just want toencourage everybody open up your
hands, release whatever it isyou might be holding on to lean
in, and I promise you you willreceive all that you need from
(34:33):
the loving father.
And so, um, and he'll say nowwe can get started and you'll
begin to experience so much morefully.
Brother, this was great.
God bless you.
Thank you for doing life withme and, um, we wish you all the
best, you too, bro, peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Steve told us.
The following three themes wereidentified by AI after it was
able to review all of the men'sanswers to why are you here at a
men's conference?
They lack clarity of purpose.
They needed release from thepast.
They desired brotherhood andaccountability.
Well, first of all, it's scaryamazing to me that ai was able
to crunch that data and findsuch accurate themes that every
(35:19):
man struggles with at varyinglevels.
And I would say that theanswers to the three themes are
found in the inverse order ofwhat the AI generated.
First, we find trusted brotherswhere you can have a purposeful
relationship and accountability.
In the midst of those trustedrelationships, speak your truth,
(35:40):
all of it, every gory detail,how it made you feel, what was
said, what was done, what wasnot done.
Then think through and speakwhat it is that you really
needed in those moments.
This, my friends, is a journey,not a race.
In fact, we call it doing work,and that's because it can be
(36:03):
exhausting, but the finishedproduct is always worth it.
As you walk with your brotherstowards God's grace and mercy
and healing on that journey, asyou spend time with the Lord,
ask him to reveal to you wherehe's working and join him there.
That's where we find ourclarity of purpose.
(36:26):
Man, I just wish someone wouldhave made a podcast that covers
stuff like this.
Man, I just wish someone wouldhave made a podcast that covers
stuff like this Lord, pleasecontinue to use this podcast to
impact the lives of all wholisten.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them, lord.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
In Jesus' name, amen.
If you enjoyed today's episode,please share it and invite
others to the Foxhole.
You can find us wherever youdownload your favorite podcasts.
Be sure to subscribe so youknow when new episodes drop, and
please rate us and commentthere too, as it'll help us get
found by others who couldbenefit.
Find, follow and like us onyour go-to social media networks
by searching Foxhole Symphonyor visit foxholesymphonycom to
make it super easy to find us.
(37:12):
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
Welcome to Foxhole Symphony, a podcast about the
transformational value of men inauthentic community.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
In our foxhole.
Men are equipped to buildrelationships that foster
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Stop believing the lie that you can thrive in
isolation and instead join us onthe journey from broken to
whole.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hello everyone.
They call me the Maestro and weare back in the foxhole where
we actively pursue belonging,accountability and growth
through authentic relationships.
No masks, no agendas, just ironsharpening iron.
Steve and Mark are in thefoxhole today and they are
talking about our struggles withloneliness.
(00:48):
You know what time it is?
Get comfortable, open yournotes app and let's get this
symphony started.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, welcome back to Foxhole Symphony Podcast.
I'm Sarge here with Mark, mygood friend.
Good to see you, buddy.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey can you count up to 89?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
89?
89.
89 episodes.
It only took us 16 years.
No, not true.
No but it's funny, man, I can'tyou know.
We talked to so many podcastersand they're like oh yeah, we
drop.
You know twice a twice a week,you know once a week, whatever
you know.
(01:25):
And it's just, man, our rhythmof every other week has been
good for us.
That's good.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And look at how the Lord, you know, turns and twists
and turns of life and it hasbeen such a blessing to just
have it every two weeks.
There are moments I'm reading adevotional going.
Ah man, I wish I was talking toSarge right now.
We could do it.
This is an episode.
How many dozens of times hasthat happened to you?
But at the same time, the rhythmof just you know, now that you
(01:52):
live in Florida, just seeing youand having a chance, I mean I
just want to talk to you.
So this is cool, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, amen, amen, god is honored by this time.
Yeah, well, hey, we're going tojump in and uh and talk about
just the reality of, um, youknow, isolation and loneliness.
We, we've talked about this alittle bit, uh in the past, uh,
maybe even a lot uh, as itrelates to, you know, our, our,
(02:17):
just the theme of FoxholeSymphony, and that is the the,
you know, authentic Christiancommunity and the
transformational value they'rein Right.
And so we, um, you know, thistopic has been on my mind and I
started looking at some, somestatistics.
And I wanted to start with thatbecause we've got a loneliness
epidemic in in in the U S?
(02:38):
Um, and you know, in fact, it'sso bad I don't even know that
we largely realize it's aproblem.
Some of us might, because itmaybe hits closer to home, and
others maybe not so much.
But here's just a fewstatistics I wanted to kick us
off with.
(03:00):
First of all, 41% of men ratethemselves as being satisfied
with life 41% 4 out of 10, asbeing satisfied.
Only 27% of men report havingat least six friends.
27% have at least six friendsand 15% report having not one
(03:23):
friend.
15% of men Suicide statisticsthere's tons of them.
I'll just focus on these couple.
80% of suicides are men.
Many may realize that, but 80%of suicides are men and 44% of
men surveyed reported havingsuicidal ideation in the last
(03:46):
two weeks.
That statistic, to me, is oneof the most alarming 44 percent
of men surveyed reported havingsuicidal ideation in the last
two weeks.
Come on, so you know, these aresome staggering statistics and
there's lots of data around thedirect correlation, the direct
(04:10):
connection between lonelinessand not only suicide but to
premature death, cardiovasculardisease, dementia, stroke, not
to mention anxiety anddepression.
So there are some significantfactors here.
Factors here, uh, as it relatesto to lonely, loneliness and
and and and isolation.
So I was at a conference lastweek, as you know, and one of
(04:34):
the first things they did atthis conference and this is this
is, uh, you know, I don't know500, a thousand Christian men,
mostly Christian men and, uh,they had these little puzzle
pieces on the tables and theystarted with this like, what is
it that you want to get out ofthis weekend?
Essentially, why are you here?
Why are you here Now?
This was not an intensive men'sweekend like we've talked about
(04:56):
in the past, like Mark Men forChrist or others.
This is a pretty generalgathering of men, some good,
solid speakers, but people thatjust you know looking to grow,
get together.
I mean, there's there's somesocial aspects, there were some
again, some speakers and thingslike that.
Not a deep dive, ok, right, well, men filled out these puzzle
(05:19):
pieces and then stuck them onthe wall and attached them to
basically make this piece ofartwork, this puzzle Right, put
this together and I took apicture of it, and actually a
guy I was with took a picture ofit and entered it into chat,
gpt to get an AI summary of thesentiment on these puzzle pieces
on the wall.
So cool, so cool.
(05:41):
Um, dude, it's's unbelievablewhat came out the messages on
these cards, so so.
So here's, here's the summary.
I'm just going to read it toyou.
This is a brief, brief portion.
I mean, hey, I hit, spit outthis huge report.
I'm just going to give you thehigh points it says.
Uh, these messages reveal a deepemotional undercurrent among
(06:04):
these men.
Beneath the surface, theirwords express three core desires
Clarity of purpose they want toknow why they are here and what
they're supposed to do next.
These men are tired of drifting.
They feel the need to step intosomething greater, but lack a
clear mission.
Number two, to somethinggreater but lack a clear mission
(06:27):
.
Number two release from thepast.
Many are carrying wounds, guiltor struggles that they know
they need to let go of but don'tyet know how.
And number three brotherhoodand accountability.
They don't want to fight alone.
They're searching for realconnections with other men who
understand their struggles.
They know isolation is killingthem, but they need a space
where they can be real withoutfear of judgment.
(06:50):
That was the summary from AI ofall these hundreds of puzzle
pieces.
These are the three coredesires from these men.
Is that mind blowing?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Were the puzzle pieces already written on or did
you have to?
No, oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
No, no, no, no.
I mean, they were blank puzzlepieces that men were just.
All they said was why are youhere?
Got it?
Why are you here, like, are youkidding me?
Overwhelming.
And then they, I mean, it wenton.
I'll just a couple more bits.
It says the unspoken painbehind their words.
This is AI.
(07:25):
They feel stuck, isolated andrestless.
They don't want to just hearabout change, they want to be
transformed.
But transformation requiresaction and many of them are
standing at the edge, waiting tobe pushed.
Standing at the edge, waitingto be pushed.
(07:47):
The biggest question left forthem will they finally surrender
the war that's keeping themstuck and step into the battle
that actually matters?
I mean, come on, bro, these arenot my words, like no.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
That's powerful stuff .
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right.
And so you know, I'm looking atthese statistics on loneliness,
looking at the statistics, thedata around health.
You know the direct correlationof loneliness.
You know these, these, these,these hundreds of puzzle pieces
on the wall in this, thisglaring summary of the core
desires and the emotional orundercurrent, and I'm saying,
man, that is what we're about,like, this is what we've been
(08:24):
talking about for the last fouryears.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Right, it's true.
And, by the way, december 23rd,september 23rd of 2021, our
third episode was called cavingup.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
December December of 2021, we started this.
One of the first three thingsyou and I wanted to talk about
was men's propensity for cavingup, going alone, being alone.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So here we are I mean right Like here we are, four
years into this episode 89, youknow 90 episodes and you know
this is an epidemic.
It's an epidemic and so youknow we remain passionate about
this topic.
And you know, because I thinknot only because it's an
(09:13):
epidemic, but you and I, mark,have seen the freedom I mean we
have.
We have leaned so far in tothis topic, not just on a
podcast but personally, with ourlives, right, launching,
fostering, facilitating groups,from Band of Brothers to
Foxholes to Victorious Togetherto Mark Mann, to every context
(09:36):
and environment.
I've been doing it in theworkplace, in the marketplace,
no matter where I am, no matterwhat it is.
I'm drawn to it because we'veseen the transformation take
place, we've seen the heartchange, we've seen what God does
when we take off the masks,when you know we lean in, when
(10:02):
we're willing to, you know, bevulnerable, open up our hands,
surrender, bring to the, bringto the foot of the cross, and
not only that, climb up on thecross and be crucified with
Jesus to have our wounds.
You know pain, whatever it isto put to death and to see.
You know and watch and hear Godsay okay, now we can get
(10:26):
started Now we can get startedand the chains begin to fall off
and the healing begins andthere's life transformation that
then, with the heart of thatone man, just sends ripples
through his community, beginningwith his family, community,
workplace, neighborhood, youknow other men, whatever it is.
(10:47):
And so we continue to lean in,to run in and watch God work in
that way.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Absolutely, and I, I, I need to say so I'm I'm
processing this and going backtrying to think of, like, what
was, what was my life likebefore I met you, before I met
the men I trust the most?
I, that 27% number stillresounding with me.
It's the only one I wrote downto your stats.
I think that's high.
I was surprised that 27% saidthey had six friends now.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
For me.
I have lots of acquaintances,my nature, my job.
Just I'm connected, right, I'mnetworked, as it said, but not
crazily so.
But I will tell you, there aresix men in my life who I think
would stop what they were doingand rescue me if I needed
rescued.
That's my definition offriendship.
(11:43):
That's what I need in my lifeNow.
I don't need buddies, I'm not.
I'm not.
But did you but?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
to your point.
Yeah, Before all of this, didyou have that?
I mean did you have six men,six friends, you know six men.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
No, and it began with an awakening.
There was an awakening catalystfor me that's my experience and
it was born from the church.
It was born from a life group.
My need to start the band ofbrothers was born from my
looking at us in a group ofcouples and parents and kids and
(12:17):
going, wow, none of these guysI mean these are?
These are guys I'd like to getto know better.
These are guys I'd like to seewhat God might have in store.
And, dude, it was totallyselfish.
I've admitted this how manytimes on the podcast.
It was me needing to beconnected.
I seek community.
I seek community like a guidedmissile, but but that, that
(12:42):
catalyst, that awakening.
I just want to say to to ourlisteners this is a journey of
falling on and off.
For me, that's surrendering, isdaily that you just referred to
.
There's a there's a constantfalling off track, getting off
track and and friends and theHoly spirit knocking me back on
track and just continuing thejourney day by day, one day at a
(13:03):
time.
Yeah, look, man, I'm 16 yearsolder than you and I am thinking
about the end of my career, theend of this, the end of that,
looking forward to what'shappening for me and Ria next in
our lives, so on and so forth.
Looking forward to what'shappening for me and Rhea next
in our lives, so on and so forth.
(13:23):
Thinking through those things,I have this will my friends be
with me to the end?
Those are the kind ofconversations I'm having in my
head and with God and I'm sureit's very different for you, I'm
guessing, given where you arein your life and we haven't
talked about this but where youare in your career especially,
you're in the explosive growthmode.
Right, I'm in maintenance mode.
Yeah, I'd like to take myvictorious together brothers to
(13:45):
my deathbed.
That's what I want.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And I'm going to act like a gentleman.
I'm going to to uh um, handlemy life.
I'm going to manage my day.
I'm going to seek the Lord eachday.
I'm going to keep my focuswhere it belongs on the cross.
I'm doing whatever I can aspart of God's plan for me to
ensure that those friendships,my community that I've chosen,
(14:10):
stays my community.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
I'll fight for it man .
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, so that's, that's where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, you'll fight for it and you'll fight for them
, absolutely, that's.
Yeah, that's where I'm comingfrom.
Yeah, you'll fight for it,you'll fight for them absolutely
, you know, I I think like,regardless of the different
stages we may be in now, backthen we were in the same stage.
That's true, that's right.
So it's very interesting, rightlike they were.
The common ground was you know,you're, you're seeking this,
you're knowing there's somethingmissing, you're, you're,
(14:38):
knowing, you were, you know,drawn to and made for more.
And what was missing was thatthat authentic Christian
community which, again, based onthe statistics, very common,
very common.
This is the common ground.
I mean, you have 500, you know700 men writing on these little
puzzle pieces and this that thesummary is you know 700 men
(15:01):
writing on these little puzzlepieces, and that the summary is
overwhelmingly clear and it's itcomes down to a lack of
authentic Christian community.
And so you know, I'm, I'm here,I am 16 years, you know,
younger, totally different stageof life, but looking for the
same exact thing going.
Something's missing, that'sreally important.
Yeah.
That's an important note yeah,yeah, and so it applies to you.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
If you're listening, it applies to you.
It doesn't matter, that's right.
You can text or call or email.
Either one of us will tell youour perspective, but it is the
same and we, we did start thatjourney together.
I'm proud to say and honored towalk it with you today.
It doesn't matter, I could careless what you're doing.
I mean, I love what you're doing, but that has nothing to do
(15:44):
with my continuing the deepdesire to find authentic
community through Christ withyou and share it with other men.
I mean, look, come on, we gotto model this.
This doesn't work.
Men aren't going to.
Those statistics aren't goingto change unless men like you,
like Sarge, rocket.
Sarge is out there out front.
(16:05):
That's where God wants you.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah.
I believe, that and I just, youknow, listen, the other thing
that I think and we've touchedon this a little bit before, but
I think it's important to note,you know, cause there's,
there's a lot of people.
There's a lot of peoplethinking right now, they're
listening and they're saying,you know, I got, I'm surrounded
by people, right, and for you, Iwould say, how authentic is it?
How authentic are you in thoseenvironments?
(16:31):
And if you are, praise God andour others.
And if they're, if they're not,what can you do to, to to bring
them along and to continue tomodel authentic community, um,
and and and maybe maybe you'rethere and maybe you're
surrounded with so many people,the challenge for you is is is
to embrace solitude, right, Iwas there, I was there and to
(16:53):
understand that it's it's alsonot only okay to be alone, right
, but that you know Jesusretreated to be alone with the
father, and that that time iscritical, and so it's.
It's both, and this is not aneither or right.
There are those that are, uh,hey, listen, deeply connected to
the father, right, spendingtime with the Lord, um, and
(17:16):
still missing community.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Right, cause they're happy they're, they're in their
comfort zone.
Right, you think you got it,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, exactly, I mean for whatever reason.
But then there's those thathave neither right.
It's just them, it's just thatthey're not.
They're not connected to thevine, they're not connected to
others, and it's, it's, it's.
Both are critical.
That's that's my point.
That's the point I'm trying tomake is that both are, you know,
critical aspects of being inhealthy relationship, healthy
relationship with God, so thatwe can be in, you know, healthy
(17:46):
relationship with others.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, and I would just say this is not a race.
It is not where everyone isstarting at the same time in the
same place, the same.
You know weather and you'rewhere you are.
You're where God has you todayand in some cases that quite
possibly could be a very messyplace.
Right, we, we Sarge you, and Iknow a lot of guys that came
from the gutter to glory right,it's beautiful and others that
(18:12):
are, you know, good, just good,church guys.
The guys you see around.
They look good, happy, handsome.
You know everything's good.
Now, how are you doing?
Fine, right, and knowing theytoo need authentic community,
they need other men around them.
It could be to your point largegroup, small group there's a
lot of different ways to do this.
We've chosen a certain way todo it and find fruit in that.
(18:34):
Right, we have richconversations and strong
relationships.
Honesty you know just the depthof candor that we bring.
You know, in our circles, themen that we have chosen to be
closest to is amazing to me, ifyou had asked me 20 years ago if
this were where God would haveme today.
(18:54):
Not in a million, and I didn'tknow what I was doing.
Don't wait for the rule book.
There's no playbook.
Well, there is.
It's called the Bible.
But you know, if you're a guylike me who loves planning and
wants to write it down and lovespreadsheets, don't wait for
your spreadsheet.
If someone had been around totell me, I don't know, I may
(19:16):
have found this faster, but Isleep really well with where God
has me and the journey I'm on,knowing it will last until my
last day.
I'll still be seeking, I'llstill be surrendering.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, I think it's important, you know, cause it's,
it's it's one thing to say like, oh, just go do it Right.
Like there are barriers thereare, there are absolute.
You know there are barriers,there are absolute.
You know obstacles in the wayof getting to a place of
authentic Christian community,and some of them are really
simple, but some of them are alittle more complex.
But you know there are threethat I've been thinking about
(20:06):
that all revolve around self,that are, I would say, common
barriers and you know they're,they're all rooted in in in our
woundedness, but they are so uh,of the world, they're so common
in our culture and in fact,they're even.
They're not just common,they're, they're, they're um,
they're promoted, they're,they're, we're trained in this,
we're, we're.
You know, we're brought up inthis, and it's self-sufficiency,
self-promotion andself-protection, or
(20:28):
self-preservation,self-sufficiency, self-promotion
and self-preservation, right.
So, self-sufficiency, I, I gotthis right, you got this.
You can do.
You know, you gotta, you gottado it.
Nobody's going to do it for you.
Right, you gotta do it, yeah,right, and, and it's you know,
and, and to need others is to beweak, right, this idea of
(20:50):
independence, so like, so that'snumber one.
Self self-promotion, right,like I mean, come on, I mean we,
we, I mean you know, the worldis self-promoting, it's just,
you know, get on any socialmedia.
It's just.
Like, I mean, it's unbelievable, right, everybody's an expert,
everybody's a, you know, a guru,everybody's an influencer,
(21:15):
everybody.
You know, it's like, it'sincredible, it's insatiable.
And guess what?
Like, we want it, we want it,we want to be glorified, our
flesh wants to be praised, wewant to be lifted up, we want to
be seen, we want to be seenright by the world.
And this is dangerous, it's aslippery slope.
So this, you know, it is notbiblical, it's not biblical.
(21:37):
Biblical, it's not biblical.
I mean, look at philippians 2,look at, read matthew 6.
You know, like, you know thethe idea of self-promotion is I,
I, I've had conversations withpeople about this.
They're like, what do you mean?
It's not biblical?
Like it's that we've been thatcoerced, you know, and and to to
(22:01):
believe that.
You know, uh, we should beelevated.
So, anyway, and then theself-protection piece, and this
is the piece that the selfprotection, self-preservation,
like you know, is reallyslippery.
This is probably theslipperiest, the most slippery,
(22:21):
slipperiest Slippers.
There are scriptures obviouslyaround us protecting right.
Protecting our families,protecting the vulnerable, those
who can't speak up forthemselves.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Right A friend giving his life for a friend.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
yeah, yeah, there are countless scriptures about God
as our refuge, our strength, ourprotector, and so, you know,
this idea of vulnerability, whenit comes down to authentic
Christian community, it requiresvulnerability.
Into these conversations withpeople about this and they're
like well, like, does God reallywant us to be vulnerable?
(23:02):
Like, where does the wisdom?
Well, yes, it requires wisdom,yes, it requires discernment.
But, man, I just can't help butlook back at the life of Jesus.
I can't help but look at thelife of Jesus and and and and
see what he did for us and whathe modeled for us, you know, did
for us and what he modeled forus, you know.
Look at the life of thedisciples, like you know, I mean
(23:31):
, listen, peter of all people,right, peter of all people,
rejected Jesus when faced withdanger, right, in the spirit of
self-protection, right, feartook over, he hid.
I, I, I get it, I get it.
Uh, I've lived it.
But that's why we need eachother to call each other into
that and by continuously,because, left in my own devices
and my own flesh, I don't knowthat I've got the courage, I
(23:52):
don't know that I've got thecourage to continuously step
into this place of vulnerability.
So the more more we practice it, the more we do it with one
another, the more our livesreflect just this, this, this,
the, the sacrifice and the, thealmost invitation of, you know,
(24:13):
suffering again, to kind ofclimb up on the cross and be be,
you know, climb up on the crossand be, you know, crucified
with Jesus and then, and onlythen, you know are we fully
surrendered to him and he says,okay, now we can get started.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Now we can get started.
Wow, you're hitting so manythings that are in my head.
Right, so we are agreeing.
The ultimate surrender wasJesus, Jesus's death on the
cross, ultimate.
We've also talked many, manytimes about the need to
surrender daily, moment tomoment.
I'm thinking of the threethings you just mentioned
preservation, promotion, etcetera and the key, the common
denominator, is the word self.
(24:54):
Therein lies the problem for me.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Really, I mean, I feel like you're taking a hammer
hitting me right in theforehead, because the the
hardest part of this journey forme is getting outside myself,
to stop making myself the centerof the universe.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Stop, stop, you know just yeah, well, yes, and so how
right it's, it's, it's, itrequires this awareness of why
that is what is happening.
That causes us to go back to itLike a dog returns to its vomit
.
It's our wounds.
It's our woundedness.
What is the wound?
What is what happened thatstill needs healing?
(25:35):
That causes us to lean awayrather than lean in right, to be
cynical, untrusting,self-centered and highly
susceptible to rejecting God inhis ways.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Am I willing to surround myself with men who
will call me on my stuff?
And Justin Camp is the one whochanged my heart on this.
He said authentic communitydoesn't bring you around men who
call you out, they call you in,and that is an important
(26:10):
distinction that you're myvulnerability with you or yours
with me.
On the night I met you, yourdecision to do that level of
vulnerability that knocked mebackwards on my ass to the point
where I ran from you.
Yeah, for weeks you scared thecrap out of me, like what the
hell is this going on on myfront porch and praise the lord
(26:37):
that I somebody, dude, it wasnot me.
I've got goose flesh all overmy body right now.
I, it was not me, it was thelord and smart men around me.
Yeah, this is what it's like,this is what I need, and you and
that vulnerability.
I've only talked about thatepisode in our lives.
(26:58):
Besides with you and me, withanyone listening to the podcast
in praise, look where we are 20years later.
Yeah, because I wasn't, youknow, calling you out for your
weakness and your woundednessand vulnerability, but we
together were called in into thespirit.
So I think that distinction isreally important for folks that
(27:21):
are concerned about where theyare and what this mess looks
like.
You know, when they look in themirror, what do they see and
what do they think others seewhen the world is shouting at
you it's okay to self-promote,it's okay to self-preserve, it's
all okay to be self, self, self, self-improvement, self-help,
self, all day long, frombillboards to news.
(27:45):
Right, stop me now.
Yeah, am I shouting at you?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Within the church.
Within the church, you know, Imean we're not talking about
just, you know, people thatdon't know God.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Within the church this is a common, you know,
within the body of Christ, wedon't.
This is what I'm saying.
I don't know that we even seeit.
Most of the time it's thatslippery, you know, and it's a
tactic of the enemy.
The enemy's going oh yeah, thisis this, is I got them right
where I want them?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
It's loosely veiled in the church and covered by a
lot of different things there.
That's a whole differentpodcast, I think.
But, but, but I'm not.
I'm not saying the church isbad, I'm saying that there are
phonies at my job and there arephonies at my church.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
That's all.
Absolutely.
Listen, we're humans and we'resusceptible, no matter where we
are or or.
You know what we believe we'resusceptible to.
You know, sin.
We're susceptible to sin, andbut we've got to recognize it as
sin.
That's the.
It starts there, you know, andthat's what I'm saying.
Like it's slippery, like reallyWell, self-promotion, like I,
(28:55):
you know, like I'm driven, well,yeah, be driven toward what and
why?
What's your motivation, what'syour heart?
It's your heart posture, youknow.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, there's so many lies, but again, probably
another deeper podcast.
I would say this for me, myreal practical experience with
this is often wondering and youand I have talked about this
about taking this podcast on theroad, about speaking out in
public about what we believe andwhat we feel and what we feel
(29:26):
called to feel and what we feelcalled to.
And I still and I haven't doneit very much at all except in
small groups and small weekendsbut I do think about the
self-promotion part of that.
I'm guilty of pride, the pridemonster.
I carry on my, you know, thebackpack I carry around every
day that I've got to drop in mybedroom before I head out for
(29:47):
the day and I'm worried aboutgoing out, you know, and start
talking about what I see andfeel and believe in my heart,
worried that there's aself-promotion happening there.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So, yeah, that's my fear.
Going back to that AI summaryof those puzzle pieces clarity
of purpose, release from thepast, brotherhood and
accountability.
We talk a lot about all threeof these, but they're connected.
All three of those areconnected, right?
The clarity of purpose we justtalked about, you know, wanting
for yourself to drop in thatbackpack, like if we don't wake
(30:19):
up in the morning and know whyGod gave us breath and we don't
leave the house on mission forhim, then we're going to be on
mission for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Amen, that's a good word.
Stop Say it again.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
That clarity of purpose is so critical?
Because if we don't wake up andknow why God gave us breath and
leave on mission with Him eachday, we will be on mission for
ourselves.
And the challenge is what I seemost men doing is trying to
balance the two.
There's no balance in our humanflesh, our human strength
(31:00):
there's.
That'll drive us bonkers.
That's why these men 500, 700men show up writing on these
puzzle pieces that very thing aschristians, because they're
trying to do both.
They're trying to build theirown kingdom and still honor God
and build his Listen can't bedone.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
No, stop now, Right.
Stop hitting your head, andthen it's the release in the
past.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
So it's the mission.
We can't get to clarity ofpurpose and be on mission
without the release from thepast, without understanding the
wounds we carry, the things, thevery things you just talked
about, the things that get inthe way, right, if we have
awareness of those and we don'twalk through those and get
healing from those, then wecan't be on mission.
And then, and only then, right,and maybe both of those things
(31:47):
can happen, not maybe they do.
Both of those things happen.
The release from the past, theclarity of purpose, the mission
happen in the context ofauthentic community.
And they require vulnerability,they require accountability,
they require support and and andyou know, and all of a sudden,
(32:09):
when we do this, suddenly wefind that our greatest needs are
met Right, so we're trying tomeet our needs as a result of
our woundedness, on our own, inour own self-sufficiency, our
own self-promotion, you know,our own self-protection.
Right protection, right To beseen when, if we just surrender
(32:31):
and die to ourselves, weactually get the very thing that
we needed to begin with, and weget it in the most holy and
godly way, and that is to beseen with no judgment, nothing
but God's love and grace and allof a sudden there's peace and
there's joy, right and we're onmission, and so again, we keep
(32:51):
bumping up against them.
They come up and they, you know, you get a left hook here and
there, and that's why we, youknow, we need our community to
lift us back up, brush us off.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Absolutely For Sarge.
In closing, for me, I'll tellyou that we promised men and
women almost four years ago thatthis podcast would focus on
authentic community, showingpeople where they could find
belonging, accountability andgrowth.
That's right, since we'vealready beat the accountability
thing to death.
(33:21):
Today I'm here to telleverybody listening that the
sense of belonging that comesfrom this investment you're
going to make and the growth inyour spirit, in your personal
lives, at home, at work, in yourneighborhood, at your church,
it's worth it.
It's great.
It's not good, it's greatPutting God in the center and
(33:42):
surrendering that sense ofbelonging to something special,
something united, and the growththat comes from that.
I think you, like me and Sarge,will be shocked and surprised
in a good way, what God might dowith you and how he might grow
(34:02):
you if you do this.
The ROI is supernatural.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Amen.
That's all I got.
Listen, that's more than enough, more than enough.
So, uh, listen, I just want toencourage everybody open up your
hands, release whatever it isyou might be holding on to lean
in, and I promise you you willreceive all that you need from
(34:33):
the loving father.
And so, um, and he'll say nowwe can get started and you'll
begin to experience so much morefully.
Brother, this was great.
God bless you.
Thank you for doing life withme and, um, we wish you all the
best, you too, bro, peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Steve told us.
The following three themes wereidentified by AI after it was
able to review all of the men'sanswers to why are you here at a
men's conference?
They lack clarity of purpose.
They needed release from thepast.
They desired brotherhood andaccountability.
Well, first of all, it's scaryamazing to me that ai was able
to crunch that data and findsuch accurate themes that every
(35:19):
man struggles with at varyinglevels.
And I would say that theanswers to the three themes are
found in the inverse order ofwhat the AI generated.
First, we find trusted brotherswhere you can have a purposeful
relationship and accountability.
In the midst of those trustedrelationships, speak your truth,
(35:40):
all of it, every gory detail,how it made you feel, what was
said, what was done, what wasnot done.
Then think through and speakwhat it is that you really
needed in those moments.
This, my friends, is a journey,not a race.
In fact, we call it doing work,and that's because it can be
(36:03):
exhausting, but the finishedproduct is always worth it.
As you walk with your brotherstowards God's grace and mercy
and healing on that journey, asyou spend time with the Lord,
ask him to reveal to you wherehe's working and join him there.
That's where we find ourclarity of purpose.
(36:26):
Man, I just wish someone wouldhave made a podcast that covers
stuff like this.
Man, I just wish someone wouldhave made a podcast that covers
stuff like this Lord, pleasecontinue to use this podcast to
impact the lives of all wholisten.
I ask that you would bring hopeand healing to each and every
one of them, lord.
Meet them right where they areand reveal yourself to them like
only you can do.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
In Jesus' name, amen.
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others to the Foxhole.
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(37:12):
Drop us a line with feedback,questions, topic requests.
Who knows, maybe you'll be aguest on a future episode.
In the meantime, prepare tomove, embrace discomfort and
just be you.
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