April 24, 2025 • 31 mins
The weaponization of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become one of the most troubling developments in our current cultural and political landscape. We dive deep into how DEI—a framework designed to create more representative and equitable institutions—has been deliberately transformed into a divisive political issue through coordinated misinformation campaigns.
Our conversation reveals how conservative voices have successfully reframed DEI initiatives as threats to "traditional values" and "merit-based systems," positioning efforts to increase diversity as unfair advantages given to unqualified individuals. This framing intentionally disregards the historical context of exclusion that made these initiatives necessary in the first place.
More alarmingly, we examine how DEI has become a convenient scapegoat for various societal failures completely unrelated to diversity initiatives—from plane crashes to wildfires, economic downturns to military failures. This pattern represents a calculated attempt to redirect public outrage away from actual systemic issues toward marginalized communities simply seeking equal opportunity.
The psychological impact on professionals from underrepresented backgrounds cannot be understated. Many face the constant burden of defending their legitimacy and worth against assumptions that their achievements result from preferential treatment rather than merit—a burden their white counterparts simply don't carry.
What's truly at stake is the future of American democracy itself. By systematically dismantling DEI initiatives, we're undermining the foundational American ideal that our institutions should represent all citizens, not just those who have historically held power. Join us as we challenge the weaponization of DEI and explore how we can work together to create truly equitable opportunities for everyone.
Share your thoughts with us at www.forsauk.com and join the conversation with comments that foster meaningful discussion about these critical issues.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
let's have it well, hello, hello, hello, hello,
hello.
I'm trying to start.
I hope you don't mind, antoine,I'm trying to start on a little
bit of a high note, emotionally, because this topic today, boy,
the more I think about it, themore I mean I can't imagine.
Okay, number one white personcannot completely fathom what
(00:37):
our topic today is doing to ourbrothers and sisters and women
in general, because this affectsall kinds of folks.
The topic is DEI, okay, whichis diversity, equity, inclusion.
Okay, look up those words, notbad words, right, and they got
put together for a good reasonand that ended up becoming a
(01:03):
weaponized acronym.
If you remember, it's beenreferred to as DIE instead of
DEI.
We will die by DEI.
So some pundit somewherethought they were super duper
witty and came up with that.
And unfortunately, super duperwitty things like that have a
tendency to get glommed on to bya majority of people that don't
(01:27):
even understand what they'retalking about.
In fact, I know there was aninteresting interview on the
street with folks at aconvention and they were asked
point-blank do you know what DEIstands for?
And 80%, if not more, yeah, no,almost 100% of the people at
least that were interviewed.
(01:48):
You don't see the people thatgot it on track.
So I know it wasn't a puresample pool, all that good stuff
.
But so many of those people hadno clue what DEI even was, and
if they did know some of thewords, they really didn't
understand what it meant.
And the fact that that is thecase was evidenced to me just
last night.
(02:08):
We're doing this at the end ofMarch, and just last night my
daughter came in to talk to meoh and, by the way, I'm Raul
LaBrush and you are, sir.
That's one home to see you.
Oh yeah, I remember you.
Now.
We've done a couple ofrecordings together, haven't we?
Man, I'm kind of rememberingsomething once in a while, yeah,
something.
(02:29):
Something right.
We do this thing called comingtogether.
Okay, it's a frame of reference, if you want to hold frame of
reference, coming together, okay.
So hence this discussion today.
But my daughter sorry came into me and we were both kind of
upset because I had a storageshed broken into, lost a bunch
of my Star Trek stuff.
Okay, star Trek stuff, mygoodness, when you lose your
(02:52):
Star Trek stuff as a Trekkie,that's painful, all right, but
not nearly as painful as whatwe're talking about today.
She came in Both of us areupset because this just happened
and she came in a little bitinto the program last night of
the World Championships for theUSA team in skating my wife and
daughter are really into skatingand she talked about how there
(03:12):
was this piece that was devotedto the folks that were in the
accident.
Where, what was it?
67 people, I think somewhere inthat neighborhood, or 60
passengers, four crew members,on an airplane's flight 5342
from Wichita.
It collided with an Army BlackHawk helicopter with three
(03:34):
soldiers on board.
They were practicing emergencyevacuation routes that would be
used to ferry out key governmentofficials in an emergency key
government officials, right.
So they're doing something topractice for situations that
would save our world leaders ifthere were an emergency of some
sort with this team of people.
And the thing that was sopoignant about it was the team
(03:55):
of people that were killed inthe crash, that were on the
United Airlines flight.
They were like young skaters,like up and coming kids that
were being trained in being thenext generation, if you will, of
skaters that were going to beon teams, moms and dads of
skating families and coaches.
(04:17):
So you know folks that were.
It was a significant part ofthe Wisconsin or not Wisconsin,
the US team figure skating team.
Now, you might not care aboutskating I get that right.
What I care about, because I'mnot a huge skating fan either, I
watch some of them go.
Oh my god how do, they do thatyou know kind of thing, but I'm
not like gotta see it tonightkind of person.
(04:38):
Star Trek yes, that no.
But they turned it into aweaponization thing right away.
So, if you remember, there'svery little grievances,
condolences to the family A few,I'll give that there were a few
, but what really became thecapital and project of the whole
(04:58):
deal was to use it as a weaponagainst folks that are for and
have supported DEI, as a weaponagainst folks that are for and
have supported DEI, assumingwithout any information really
in terms of what thecongressional investigation
found, without any informationabout what really was at the
root cause of this.
Was it just human error?
It turns out it was preventable.
(05:19):
But to pin it on DEI, to saybecause we've been bringing in
people into air traffic controlroles, military roles, pilot
roles in general that have beengiven those jobs because of DEI
provisions and interestinglyenough, one of the few people
(05:39):
that might have had some benefitfrom that was the pilot of the
Black Hawk helicopter, OK, well,it turns out that that was a
woman.
Okay, so that ought to be somecause of alarm for women in
general, that you know one ofthe few things that could find
that might have something to dowith the error, but even that,
you know not, they don't, theydon't really have that
(06:00):
definitive answer either.
So here is, therein lies the rub, and we'll be discussing today
and it's going to have to bemore than just today, I think,
because there's so much in thisthat gets me riled up and I know
it gets my brother Antoineriled up is this whole process
right of finding ways to makethe ideas of diversity, equity
(06:22):
and inclusion, which are a wayto make our democracy, our
representation, our democraticrepublic, truly, truly a
democracy and trulyrepresentative, which is what
it's supposed to be?
We're not just a democracy, weare a democratic republic, which
means we have people, thepeople that elect
(06:45):
representatives, to then go intoCongress, go into Senate,
become the president andrepresent them.
Okay, so it's not necessarilyjust the people, but we have a
right.
We have a right and the peoplethat we elect have a
responsibility to fulfill theirrole as representatives of the
(07:06):
entire constituency that theyrepresent.
So when you talk aboutdiversity, equity and inclusion,
you have to be talking aboutprograms that are trying.
Trying, which is, if you justpeople get outside of bubbles.
Okay, encourage friends of yoursthat are in bubbles that don't
really understand thesignificance and importance and
(07:31):
sanctity I'll say it sanctity oftreating and finding ways for
all creatures of God Almighty tobe treated with equity,
inclusion and to have that senseof we are all one family of
human beings, one race of humanbeings and as such, we all ought
(07:55):
to have the same opportunitiesin this land of opportunity.
We ought to, because that'swhat America's built on.
Give me your tired.
We ought to, because that'swhat America's built on.
Give me your tired, your poor,your wretched refuse, yearning
to be free.
That's not our Statue of Liberty, for God's sakes.
That's our Italian ancestors,our Jewish ancestors, our Irish
(08:16):
ancestors, our English ancestors.
White people, you want to be onthe white bandwagon.
They all got in here under thesame deal.
But now, today, if you're aperson of color, if you're a
woman, and you have beenbenefiting from something, some
laws, some regulations, somelegislation that was attempting
(08:37):
to correct some of that, it'sbeing systematically destroyed,
being systematically dismantled.
And that's my treatise, man,that's my thing.
Sorry, I'm just going on and onbecause this gets my wood fired
up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, man, you know, of course, when we talk about
the weaponization of DEI, man,it's to stir up misinformation
and racial fear, is to scapegoat, it is to rob people of color,
of opportunities, is to dividethe country.
You know, man, I just say this.
Since then, you know, whitesupremacist, white ring
conservatives, they have and arecontinually portraying DEI
(09:23):
initiatives as some kind ofradical or dangerous ideology,
instead of, you know, theyintentionally distort the
purpose of DEI.
You know they, instead ofacknowledging it as the
framework to correct historicaland systematic injustice, they
frame it as this threat totraditional values or the
(09:47):
merits-based system.
And you know they continuouslymischaracterize DEI to ignite
fear, especially among, like Isay, white people.
You know they try to tell themhey, you're losing power, you're
being replaced.
And you know, and they keepechoing this thing since being,
even until now.
But now you know that no samelanguage is now being cloaked in
(10:10):
political language like reverseracism, woke culture or a
critical race theory.
You know, by doing this, youknow these groups, they
weaponize DEI as a culturalscapegoat, man.
They scapegoat dei foreverything.
They redirect the blame ofsocietal issues, you know, away
from, you know, the systemicissues and put them on
(10:33):
marginalized communities seekingequality.
You know, of course, that oldadage is like you know, hey,
when you call out a issue, youbecome the problem, and that's,
uh, that, and that's an age-oldway of doing things.
And you know, when talkingabout, you know, this
information, man, thismisinformation, it's powerful
because it operates under theillusion of fairness.
(10:55):
Because if you listen to, like,jd Vance, man, he is kind of
scary to me because, man, he canmake a bad thing sound really
good and I'd be like I hopepeople get that, you know, in
the courses, like just going offthere.
But when conservatives, youknow, claim that DEI promotes
hiring based on identity insteadof merit, they ignore the
historic and ongoing exclusionof people of color from
(11:17):
leadership, education, economicopportunities.
It creates this falseequivalence between efforts to
diversify institutions anddiscrimination against white
people.
A confusing thing.
They try to confuse it, man.
That's all it's about that wordsalad, that word play, that
confusion.
And of course, if a lot ofpeople aren't aware of what's
(11:40):
really going on, man, they'lleasily get swept up in a bunch
of misinformation.
Right, and you know, like inhere recent years, man, these
conservatives, and now you gotthese white, these right wing
conservatives, these socialmedia influencers.
They've gone so far as to blameDEI on, you know, catastrophic
(12:03):
events, like you were justtalking about the plane crash
that you know.
You know that killed thoseathletes, those young athletes
and their families.
But they also remember, theyblamed it on the California,
they blamed DEI on theCalifornia wildfires on DEI.
You know, even you knowmilitary or economic downturns,
they will blame it on DEI.
You know, and of course this isall a part of their broader
(12:24):
narrative to say, when things gowrong, instead of addressing
the real systemic failure, likederegulation, underfunding of
public services, environmentalneglect, dei, it becomes the
boogeyman.
You know these claims, you know, and they're not supported by
evidence.
But they are effective inredirecting public outrage
(12:47):
towards marginalized groups.
So it's easy to blame DEI.
For instance, you know theywere implying that someone was
hired or promoted not becausethey were qualified, but because
they were a black, they were awoman, they were indigenous or
(13:09):
of another minority.
You know this just continuouslyreinforces racial stereotypes,
that if a white man is not incharge of it or if it kind of
like there, because they areactually going along the
ideology, if there is no way aperson of color, male or female,
is smarter or more qualifiedthan a white male, that is what
(13:34):
it is.
And again, this is the attack onDEI.
And let's just be clear, youknow DEI, it calls things out.
Has it really done anything?
I'll say it has made someprogress.
It was piggybacking again theVoting Rights Act, the Civil
Rights Act.
(13:55):
This is another stage oranother step or level in that
fight.
But now we know that the stepshave been torn down.
So now they're tearing downthis level or layer of calling
out things or this.
You know they're trying to crushthis as well, you know, and of
course, anything that's becausewhat we're seeing right now,
(14:15):
anything that is going toadvance people of color or give
them a leg up, they're takingaway the funding to do it.
You know, like in blackcommunities man, you know like
there was a nonprofit group theywere giving business grants to
black females and one of thoseconservative lawyers, he
(14:37):
basically sits on the steps ofthe Supreme Court and he got
that cast down, calling itreverse racism.
And again it's like this is thehistory of the country Court
and he got that cast down,calling it reverse racism.
And again it's like this is thehistory of the country right
here.
You know, when minorities startto advance or move ahead, move
the needle, start to correct thenarratives, some white men
(15:00):
start to act out, some white menstart to act out.
It's just you know the way itis and because again I'll speak
just for myself, and maybe a lotof black men that speak, you
know, think just like me.
I just want to be left alone.
I want to love people.
I want to, you know, make a wayfor me and my family.
I want to help others and liftothers up.
(15:21):
But when you do that, whenthere start to be major
advancements, that's when thingslike what we're seeing on the
news start to flare up, and soand this is why DEI is important
it builds a more and justinclusive future man.
So that's what they want totake away.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So let's think about this too.
For for a second, you know,I've I've interviewed for jobs
that I haven't gotten.
I've written interviewed forjobs that I have gotten.
Okay, and I can tell youcategorically, when I have not
gotten those jobs, there's partof me that says, well, I just,
you know, I wasn't as qualifiedas other people.
I didn't have, you know, theskillset that they were looking
(16:02):
for.
Just you know, it wasn't theright time for me.
You know, even God, you know,just didn't see that as a place
I need to go to right now.
My faith gets engaged in theintellectual.
You know the thinking that goeson, and then it turns to
stinking thinking sometimes, andthe stinking thinking is things
like I bet you, they got ayoung guy, I'm older, they
(16:27):
probably figured I'm not youngenough to do this, or I have
thought, I'll fully admit, Iwonder if they, you know, had a
woman in the thing.
I mean, those thoughts gothrough my head.
Shame on me, but they do, andI'm not going to sit here and
try to have somebody say, well,you're so holier than thou.
I am not Okay, I'm a humanbeing and I'm just, as you know,
acculturated by those kinds ofthoughts, by even thoughts of
(16:51):
you know, I wonder if a blackperson or a Latinx got that part
, that role, because they weretrying to, you know, build or
push the needle the other way.
I can usually rationalize thatback to well, you know, I hope
they get an opportunity and theyreally run with it.
You know usually.
But let's face it, guys, whiteguys out there, if you can tell
(17:13):
me that you have not everexperienced a white friend of
yours saying, yeah, I didn't getthe job, I probably hired some
black guy.
Okay, think about it for asecond.
You ever experienced that, everhad that thought yourself?
Okay, now, if you're going tobe honest about that you've
heard it I can't believe youhaven't, or you've thought it,
(17:33):
having a hard time believingthat.
That isn't true either with mostwhite people, because we grow
up in a racial soup.
We grow up all of us surroundedby white folk.
Birds of a feather flocktogether and we think that we're
the cats meow and we don't haveenough experience with black
folks or Latinx folks to know,man, there's some really damn
(17:54):
smart, bright, cool people.
They deserve jobs as much as Ido.
They just want to work, theyjust want to be treated with
respect, they just want to haveopportunities to show what they
can do.
Thankfully, lord, thank you forhaving enough experiences to
know that that is absolutelytrue.
There is no difference betweenpeople based on color, religion.
(18:18):
They're smart, bright, loving,caring, wonderful people across
the human race, country,nationalism, nothing.
We are all in this battle,together as human beings, trying
to survive.
So don't give me this crapabout you know.
Oh, white guys don't have achance anymore because you're
(18:42):
going to get these black people,or these Hispanic people have
to.
Or women, women, get a job overa white guy.
Baloney, face it, you didn't getthe job 90% of the time because
you weren't the best candidate.
You didn't get the opportunity,plain and simple, because you
didn't fight for it.
You didn't get the education,you didn't get the skill set.
(19:02):
You didn't work hard enough toget the job 90% of the education
.
It didn't get the skill set.
It didn't work hard enough toget the job 90% of the time.
Now are there people out therethat are hiring people, looking
at their quotas and saying, well, we better make sure we give.
But man from a business sense.
That doesn't make any sense,because if you're running a
business and you're hiringpeople based on that you're just
setting yourself up for failureas a business.
(19:24):
You've got to have the smartest, brightest people that are
available if you want to keepyour business afloat.
And if you're a governmentalagency that needs to get an
overwhelming amount of work doneor a nonprofit agency that
needs to get an overwhelmingamount of work done with very
limited resources, you're goingto get the best and the
brightest You've got to.
And if you're just doing itbased on some other criteria,
(19:48):
that would be such a minutepresent because I can't say
there aren't those people.
But, for goodness sakes, it'slike using the term welfare
queens.
Give me a freaking break.
Do you know how many instanceshave been proven to be true, for
that to be even close to beinga truth comment?
And it's.
Even in those instances thereare extenuating circumstances
(20:09):
that make it reasonable thatthat happened, that that person
is in fact collecting multiple,whatever assistances, because
but there's just as many whitefolks that do that as there are
people of color, probably morebecause there's, you know, more
systematic abuse amongst whitepeople than any other folks in
(20:30):
the country.
Period, that's just true.
So, people, come on, just think.
Please encourage your friendsto think, because I suspect that
the people who are listening tothis are already kind of on
this side of the fence we'repreaching to the choir, but we
need to get out and get thatword and find loving,
compassionate ways to movepeople away from that thinking
(20:53):
wherever possible.
Because I don't think it ispossible with everybody.
I think some people are just sodyed-in-the-wool stupid just
plain stupid about this stuff,stuff, and are so locked into
their way of thinking thatyou're probably wasting your
breath casting pearls beforeswine if you try to have these
kinds of discussions with them.
I hate to say that, but it's, Ithink, just a reality.
(21:15):
So if you're sensing thatthat's the equation, move on and
pray for them.
That's about the best I thinkany of us can hope to do.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, man, you know, when it comes to DEI, and you
know opportunities, man, youknow, of course, it's constantly
like we've just been talking,it's under attack and it's being
dismantled, whether it'sthrough media, rhetoric,
lawsuits, legislation.
You know, of course, thevictims are people of color.
You know affirmative action,hiring practices, equitable
(21:48):
education policies are alwaysthe first to go.
They always we're seeing likethey're the first to be defunded
, like the Department ofEducation.
Who benefits, great, the mostfrom the Department of Education
?
You know it's going to be ruraland urban areas, right, you
know, but to take away educationat the very core of it, you
(22:10):
know saying, and just basically,like they're trying to make it
to where everything starts to befunneled to these private
schools which a lot of peoplewon't be able to get to or a lot
of people won't qualify for.
No, it is just you're trying tocut the feet from under a whole
Race of people, races of people.
You know these move, these rightwing or conservative movements,
(22:32):
on their position, on the, it'slike they are like a point of
no return, a zero sum game.
They're gaining things, thatmeans we're losing things and,
of course, and what that does,it just kind of promotes that
racial resentment.
It deepens the device, itreinforces the myth that people
(22:54):
of color succeed only onpreferential treatment, not
merit, and of course, that'swhat they talk about, the merit
system.
I'll give you an example DonaldTrump's granddaughter, she was
just, you know, she justqualified for a junior golf
tournament for like the 30 bestfemale 30 best females in the
country and the 30 best males inthe country.
(23:15):
Now, on a national scale,donald trump's granddaughter,
she, out of all these highschool golfers, she ranked 2,
whatever, but she made the top30 somehow.
And you know, and so we just,just, I'm going to say that's
all I'm going to say about that.
But you know, we talk about youknow how DEI takes away
(23:38):
opportunities, man, when theysay we only make it by
preferential treatment, thistactic, it has a psychological
effect on people as well, likeblack professionals, black
students, leaders.
No, we are constantly having todefend our worth, we constantly
have to defend our legitimacy,or we constantly have to defend
that, and I fear for the youngergeneration, or people that have
(24:00):
a weaker spirit, becausethey're going to be constantly
accused of being diversity,hires or quotas, and it's just,
this thing can beat down on aperson and it starts to make
them doubt themselves.
You know, and these, yeah,these micro aggressions and
systemic things that they'redoing serve to discourage future
(24:23):
generations for pursuingopportunities where they might
be most needed, whether it it'slaw, medicine, education,
corporate leadership.
You know the result of thissocial climate where people of
color are constantly forced todefend themselves, their
presence and our worth, right,right.
But now we're about to be shutout of every possible
(24:44):
opportunity.
And that's where you know likewe need the allyship, we need
people to stand up, we needpeople to really just open their
eyes to this thing and, ofcourse, like I say, they call
you woke or they're going to saythey're going to use some form
of reverse racism.
It's been in their favor forhundreds of years.
The same thing has been arguedfor hundreds of years, but now
(25:08):
again, major advancements arestarting to be made.
But here we are again with thisthing and I want to be clear
black people, don't start thismess.
This mess has just been brewingfor years and generations.
But, however, since it has nowbeen made OK to say you're
(25:32):
racist, it's been made OK to saysome of the most hideous things
that are coming out of people'smouths right now, and it's a
sad thing, you know.
Of course we are to beprotecting diversity, equity and
inclusion in all theinstitutions pertaining to life,
and inclusion in all theinstitutions pertaining to life.
You know the justice system,education, the medical field,
(26:00):
all these things you know.
And the sad part is you knowwhy they demonize DEI.
You know it just misinforms.
It'll confuse a well-intendedperson and it'll just confuse
them.
You know, if they are like youmentioned, if a person is stuck
in their news bubble, they won'treally get what diversity,
equity, inclusion is all aboutand we have to fight for it.
(26:21):
It robs us of this.
Attack on DEI is robbing thiscountry of some very significant
growth in the world.
We, the country itself is notfalling behind because of DEI is
(26:42):
not falling behind because ofDEI is falling behind because we
continuously, some of the bestpeople for a job will never get
that job now, or they won't evenbe considered.
And that's where, you know, wehave to open our eyes and say,
hey, no, we can no longer allowthese systemic and systematic
(27:05):
injustices to keep going.
We have to really boldly standup and talk to the lie.
And now, of course, it's hardto.
It's hard to argue against alie or against the way a person
feels.
It's hard to.
You can simply state the truthand keep stating it, you know.
(27:26):
And again, and it's like, andwe better be able to back it up
with fact, you know, with actualfact, because again, you can
talk to a person and maybechange their way.
But when you're talking to agroup of people, like, say, 75
million people, you know whovoted in this past election for
the current situation, it'sgonna be hard to in the course
(27:47):
now and, like we've talked aboutthis a couple weeks ago, the
sad part is a lot of people areseeing things go horribly wrong,
even with the mishandling of.
You know what happened withthis signal app thing where they
actually put attack plans in atext is that DEI wasn't a black
(28:09):
person on the call.
No, tulsi Gabbard she was onthe call.
Are they not calling that a DEIthing now?
So they pick the shoes wherethey want to weaponize it and
demonize it.
But I'll tell you, we'regetting into a point where we
really have to just really stand, talk and be bold about this
(28:32):
subject and there you have it,folks, round one of our
passionate discussion on deidiversity, equity, inclusion.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Look up those three words.
Look them up so that whenyou're talking with a friend of
yours that maybe is you know andtaking down that path, look up
those three words.
Look them up so that whenyou're talking with a friend of
yours that maybe is you know,been taken down that path.
Look up those words so that youknow exactly what they mean,
you know why they've beencategorized in that way.
And try to look up some of theactual examples of diversity,
equity and inclusion being used.
Who does it cover?
Get some knowledge underneathyour you know, in your head to
(29:07):
be able to use.
It's like you know my theaterbackground.
We rehearse.
We rehearse shows.
We first gather as a cast.
We rehearse for six to eightweeks before we ever pull the
curtain.
You know because we know whenwe pull the curtain something's
going to happen on that stageand something's going to happen
out in that audience area and wehope it's going to be good.
So rehearse, get your linesdown right, get the ability to
(29:31):
be able to talk intelligentlyabout it and compassionately,
because we're not just lookingto argue people intellectually
into this.
But you know, I keep thinking instatements like it's not what
you know, it's who you know.
That's been around forever.
You know, and this is exactlywhat's going on right now.
This is the real battle goingon.
It's not what we know, it's whowe know.
(29:52):
That's going to end up gettingpeople their jobs.
It's going to end up gettingtheir positions of power.
That's exactly what's happeningwith every political
administration, since I don'tknow when the people that get
appointed for the cabinets thatmake the big decisions that
affect you and I are appointedbecause of who they know right
and if they don't like it,they're going to remove you Yep
(30:15):
real quickly, Like the blackpresident or chancellor of
Harvard University, as well asthe white female chancellor of
Penn University.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
They used DEI, they used antisemitic whatever to
remove those women and that'sall it was so next time we
continue with our discussion.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Folks, my name is Raul, that's Raul.
Raul DeCresc-McDuff and youyoung men are, and Thorne, and
we are together, coming togetherhere on Kramer Reference, and
we hope that you will comment.
We'll get in the discussion aswell.
Go to wwwforsaukcom and leave acomment.
(31:03):
Please make it something thatwe can discuss instead of
something that just says you'rean idiot, you don't know what
you're talking about.
Blah, blah.
I mean, voice your concerns,voice the things that happened
to you, the real experiences.
That's fine, but you know,let's have a discussion about it
, right, let's try to figure out.
Hey, what's really going on.
Okay, all right, until nexttime.
Amen, see you then.
(31:26):
All right, take care everybody.
Thanks for listening.
let's have it well, hello, hello, hello, hello,
hello.
I'm trying to start.
I hope you don't mind, antoine,I'm trying to start on a little
bit of a high note, emotionally, because this topic today, boy,
the more I think about it, themore I mean I can't imagine.
Okay, number one white personcannot completely fathom what
(00:37):
our topic today is doing to ourbrothers and sisters and women
in general, because this affectsall kinds of folks.
The topic is DEI, okay, whichis diversity, equity, inclusion.
Okay, look up those words, notbad words, right, and they got
put together for a good reasonand that ended up becoming a
(01:03):
weaponized acronym.
If you remember, it's beenreferred to as DIE instead of
DEI.
We will die by DEI.
So some pundit somewherethought they were super duper
witty and came up with that.
And unfortunately, super duperwitty things like that have a
tendency to get glommed on to bya majority of people that don't
(01:27):
even understand what they'retalking about.
In fact, I know there was aninteresting interview on the
street with folks at aconvention and they were asked
point-blank do you know what DEIstands for?
And 80%, if not more, yeah, no,almost 100% of the people at
least that were interviewed.
(01:48):
You don't see the people thatgot it on track.
So I know it wasn't a puresample pool, all that good stuff
.
But so many of those people hadno clue what DEI even was, and
if they did know some of thewords, they really didn't
understand what it meant.
And the fact that that is thecase was evidenced to me just
last night.
(02:08):
We're doing this at the end ofMarch, and just last night my
daughter came in to talk to meoh and, by the way, I'm Raul
LaBrush and you are, sir.
That's one home to see you.
Oh yeah, I remember you.
Now.
We've done a couple ofrecordings together, haven't we?
Man, I'm kind of rememberingsomething once in a while, yeah,
something.
(02:29):
Something right.
We do this thing called comingtogether.
Okay, it's a frame of reference, if you want to hold frame of
reference, coming together, okay.
So hence this discussion today.
But my daughter sorry came into me and we were both kind of
upset because I had a storageshed broken into, lost a bunch
of my Star Trek stuff.
Okay, star Trek stuff, mygoodness, when you lose your
(02:52):
Star Trek stuff as a Trekkie,that's painful, all right, but
not nearly as painful as whatwe're talking about today.
She came in Both of us areupset because this just happened
and she came in a little bitinto the program last night of
the World Championships for theUSA team in skating my wife and
daughter are really into skatingand she talked about how there
(03:12):
was this piece that was devotedto the folks that were in the
accident.
Where, what was it?
67 people, I think somewhere inthat neighborhood, or 60
passengers, four crew members,on an airplane's flight 5342
from Wichita.
It collided with an Army BlackHawk helicopter with three
(03:34):
soldiers on board.
They were practicing emergencyevacuation routes that would be
used to ferry out key governmentofficials in an emergency key
government officials, right.
So they're doing something topractice for situations that
would save our world leaders ifthere were an emergency of some
sort with this team of people.
And the thing that was sopoignant about it was the team
(03:55):
of people that were killed inthe crash, that were on the
United Airlines flight.
They were like young skaters,like up and coming kids that
were being trained in being thenext generation, if you will, of
skaters that were going to beon teams, moms and dads of
skating families and coaches.
(04:17):
So you know folks that were.
It was a significant part ofthe Wisconsin or not Wisconsin,
the US team figure skating team.
Now, you might not care aboutskating I get that right.
What I care about, because I'mnot a huge skating fan either, I
watch some of them go.
Oh my god how do, they do thatyou know kind of thing, but I'm
not like gotta see it tonightkind of person.
(04:38):
Star Trek yes, that no.
But they turned it into aweaponization thing right away.
So, if you remember, there'svery little grievances,
condolences to the family A few,I'll give that there were a few
, but what really became thecapital and project of the whole
(04:58):
deal was to use it as a weaponagainst folks that are for and
have supported DEI, as a weaponagainst folks that are for and
have supported DEI, assumingwithout any information really
in terms of what thecongressional investigation
found, without any informationabout what really was at the
root cause of this.
Was it just human error?
It turns out it was preventable.
(05:19):
But to pin it on DEI, to saybecause we've been bringing in
people into air traffic controlroles, military roles, pilot
roles in general that have beengiven those jobs because of DEI
provisions and interestinglyenough, one of the few people
(05:39):
that might have had some benefitfrom that was the pilot of the
Black Hawk helicopter, OK, well,it turns out that that was a
woman.
Okay, so that ought to be somecause of alarm for women in
general, that you know one ofthe few things that could find
that might have something to dowith the error, but even that,
you know not, they don't, theydon't really have that
(06:00):
definitive answer either.
So here is, therein lies the rub, and we'll be discussing today
and it's going to have to bemore than just today, I think,
because there's so much in thisthat gets me riled up and I know
it gets my brother Antoineriled up is this whole process
right of finding ways to makethe ideas of diversity, equity
(06:22):
and inclusion, which are a wayto make our democracy, our
representation, our democraticrepublic, truly, truly a
democracy and trulyrepresentative, which is what
it's supposed to be?
We're not just a democracy, weare a democratic republic, which
means we have people, thepeople that elect
(06:45):
representatives, to then go intoCongress, go into Senate,
become the president andrepresent them.
Okay, so it's not necessarilyjust the people, but we have a
right.
We have a right and the peoplethat we elect have a
responsibility to fulfill theirrole as representatives of the
(07:06):
entire constituency that theyrepresent.
So when you talk aboutdiversity, equity and inclusion,
you have to be talking aboutprograms that are trying.
Trying, which is, if you justpeople get outside of bubbles.
Okay, encourage friends of yoursthat are in bubbles that don't
really understand thesignificance and importance and
(07:31):
sanctity I'll say it sanctity oftreating and finding ways for
all creatures of God Almighty tobe treated with equity,
inclusion and to have that senseof we are all one family of
human beings, one race of humanbeings and as such, we all ought
(07:55):
to have the same opportunitiesin this land of opportunity.
We ought to, because that'swhat America's built on.
Give me your tired.
We ought to, because that'swhat America's built on.
Give me your tired, your poor,your wretched refuse, yearning
to be free.
That's not our Statue of Liberty, for God's sakes.
That's our Italian ancestors,our Jewish ancestors, our Irish
(08:16):
ancestors, our English ancestors.
White people, you want to be onthe white bandwagon.
They all got in here under thesame deal.
But now, today, if you're aperson of color, if you're a
woman, and you have beenbenefiting from something, some
laws, some regulations, somelegislation that was attempting
(08:37):
to correct some of that, it'sbeing systematically destroyed,
being systematically dismantled.
And that's my treatise, man,that's my thing.
Sorry, I'm just going on and onbecause this gets my wood fired
up.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, man, you know, of course, when we talk about
the weaponization of DEI, man,it's to stir up misinformation
and racial fear, is to scapegoat, it is to rob people of color,
of opportunities, is to dividethe country.
You know, man, I just say this.
Since then, you know, whitesupremacist, white ring
conservatives, they have and arecontinually portraying DEI
(09:23):
initiatives as some kind ofradical or dangerous ideology,
instead of, you know, theyintentionally distort the
purpose of DEI.
You know they, instead ofacknowledging it as the
framework to correct historicaland systematic injustice, they
frame it as this threat totraditional values or the
(09:47):
merits-based system.
And you know they continuouslymischaracterize DEI to ignite
fear, especially among, like Isay, white people.
You know they try to tell themhey, you're losing power, you're
being replaced.
And you know, and they keepechoing this thing since being,
even until now.
But now you know that no samelanguage is now being cloaked in
(10:10):
political language like reverseracism, woke culture or a
critical race theory.
You know, by doing this, youknow these groups, they
weaponize DEI as a culturalscapegoat, man.
They scapegoat dei foreverything.
They redirect the blame ofsocietal issues, you know, away
from, you know, the systemicissues and put them on
(10:33):
marginalized communities seekingequality.
You know, of course, that oldadage is like you know, hey,
when you call out a issue, youbecome the problem, and that's,
uh, that, and that's an age-oldway of doing things.
And you know, when talkingabout, you know, this
information, man, thismisinformation, it's powerful
because it operates under theillusion of fairness.
(10:55):
Because if you listen to, like,jd Vance, man, he is kind of
scary to me because, man, he canmake a bad thing sound really
good and I'd be like I hopepeople get that, you know, in
the courses, like just going offthere.
But when conservatives, youknow, claim that DEI promotes
hiring based on identity insteadof merit, they ignore the
historic and ongoing exclusionof people of color from
(11:17):
leadership, education, economicopportunities.
It creates this falseequivalence between efforts to
diversify institutions anddiscrimination against white
people.
A confusing thing.
They try to confuse it, man.
That's all it's about that wordsalad, that word play, that
confusion.
And of course, if a lot ofpeople aren't aware of what's
(11:40):
really going on, man, they'lleasily get swept up in a bunch
of misinformation.
Right, and you know, like inhere recent years, man, these
conservatives, and now you gotthese white, these right wing
conservatives, these socialmedia influencers.
They've gone so far as to blameDEI on, you know, catastrophic
(12:03):
events, like you were justtalking about the plane crash
that you know.
You know that killed thoseathletes, those young athletes
and their families.
But they also remember, theyblamed it on the California,
they blamed DEI on theCalifornia wildfires on DEI.
You know, even you knowmilitary or economic downturns,
they will blame it on DEI.
You know, and of course this isall a part of their broader
(12:24):
narrative to say, when things gowrong, instead of addressing
the real systemic failure, likederegulation, underfunding of
public services, environmentalneglect, dei, it becomes the
boogeyman.
You know these claims, you know, and they're not supported by
evidence.
But they are effective inredirecting public outrage
(12:47):
towards marginalized groups.
So it's easy to blame DEI.
For instance, you know theywere implying that someone was
hired or promoted not becausethey were qualified, but because
they were a black, they were awoman, they were indigenous or
(13:09):
of another minority.
You know this just continuouslyreinforces racial stereotypes,
that if a white man is not incharge of it or if it kind of
like there, because they areactually going along the
ideology, if there is no way aperson of color, male or female,
is smarter or more qualifiedthan a white male, that is what
(13:34):
it is.
And again, this is the attack onDEI.
And let's just be clear, youknow DEI, it calls things out.
Has it really done anything?
I'll say it has made someprogress.
It was piggybacking again theVoting Rights Act, the Civil
Rights Act.
(13:55):
This is another stage oranother step or level in that
fight.
But now we know that the stepshave been torn down.
So now they're tearing downthis level or layer of calling
out things or this.
You know they're trying to crushthis as well, you know, and of
course, anything that's becausewhat we're seeing right now,
(14:15):
anything that is going toadvance people of color or give
them a leg up, they're takingaway the funding to do it.
You know, like in blackcommunities man, you know like
there was a nonprofit group theywere giving business grants to
black females and one of thoseconservative lawyers, he
(14:37):
basically sits on the steps ofthe Supreme Court and he got
that cast down, calling itreverse racism.
And again it's like this is thehistory of the country Court
and he got that cast down,calling it reverse racism.
And again it's like this is thehistory of the country right
here.
You know, when minorities startto advance or move ahead, move
the needle, start to correct thenarratives, some white men
(15:00):
start to act out, some white menstart to act out.
It's just you know the way itis and because again I'll speak
just for myself, and maybe a lotof black men that speak, you
know, think just like me.
I just want to be left alone.
I want to love people.
I want to, you know, make a wayfor me and my family.
I want to help others and liftothers up.
(15:21):
But when you do that, whenthere start to be major
advancements, that's when thingslike what we're seeing on the
news start to flare up, and soand this is why DEI is important
it builds a more and justinclusive future man.
So that's what they want totake away.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
So let's think about this too.
For for a second, you know,I've I've interviewed for jobs
that I haven't gotten.
I've written interviewed forjobs that I have gotten.
Okay, and I can tell youcategorically, when I have not
gotten those jobs, there's partof me that says, well, I just,
you know, I wasn't as qualifiedas other people.
I didn't have, you know, theskillset that they were looking
(16:02):
for.
Just you know, it wasn't theright time for me.
You know, even God, you know,just didn't see that as a place
I need to go to right now.
My faith gets engaged in theintellectual.
You know the thinking that goeson, and then it turns to
stinking thinking sometimes, andthe stinking thinking is things
like I bet you, they got ayoung guy, I'm older, they
(16:27):
probably figured I'm not youngenough to do this, or I have
thought, I'll fully admit, Iwonder if they, you know, had a
woman in the thing.
I mean, those thoughts gothrough my head.
Shame on me, but they do, andI'm not going to sit here and
try to have somebody say, well,you're so holier than thou.
I am not Okay, I'm a humanbeing and I'm just, as you know,
acculturated by those kinds ofthoughts, by even thoughts of
(16:51):
you know, I wonder if a blackperson or a Latinx got that part
, that role, because they weretrying to, you know, build or
push the needle the other way.
I can usually rationalize thatback to well, you know, I hope
they get an opportunity and theyreally run with it.
You know usually.
But let's face it, guys, whiteguys out there, if you can tell
(17:13):
me that you have not everexperienced a white friend of
yours saying, yeah, I didn't getthe job, I probably hired some
black guy.
Okay, think about it for asecond.
You ever experienced that, everhad that thought yourself?
Okay, now, if you're going tobe honest about that you've
heard it I can't believe youhaven't, or you've thought it,
(17:33):
having a hard time believingthat.
That isn't true either with mostwhite people, because we grow
up in a racial soup.
We grow up all of us surroundedby white folk.
Birds of a feather flocktogether and we think that we're
the cats meow and we don't haveenough experience with black
folks or Latinx folks to know,man, there's some really damn
(17:54):
smart, bright, cool people.
They deserve jobs as much as Ido.
They just want to work, theyjust want to be treated with
respect, they just want to haveopportunities to show what they
can do.
Thankfully, lord, thank you forhaving enough experiences to
know that that is absolutelytrue.
There is no difference betweenpeople based on color, religion.
(18:18):
They're smart, bright, loving,caring, wonderful people across
the human race, country,nationalism, nothing.
We are all in this battle,together as human beings, trying
to survive.
So don't give me this crapabout you know.
Oh, white guys don't have achance anymore because you're
(18:42):
going to get these black people,or these Hispanic people have
to.
Or women, women, get a job overa white guy.
Baloney, face it, you didn't getthe job 90% of the time because
you weren't the best candidate.
You didn't get the opportunity,plain and simple, because you
didn't fight for it.
You didn't get the education,you didn't get the skill set.
(19:02):
You didn't work hard enough toget the job 90% of the education
.
It didn't get the skill set.
It didn't work hard enough toget the job 90% of the time.
Now are there people out therethat are hiring people, looking
at their quotas and saying, well, we better make sure we give.
But man from a business sense.
That doesn't make any sense,because if you're running a
business and you're hiringpeople based on that you're just
setting yourself up for failureas a business.
(19:24):
You've got to have the smartest, brightest people that are
available if you want to keepyour business afloat.
And if you're a governmentalagency that needs to get an
overwhelming amount of work doneor a nonprofit agency that
needs to get an overwhelmingamount of work done with very
limited resources, you're goingto get the best and the
brightest You've got to.
And if you're just doing itbased on some other criteria,
(19:48):
that would be such a minutepresent because I can't say
there aren't those people.
But, for goodness sakes, it'slike using the term welfare
queens.
Give me a freaking break.
Do you know how many instanceshave been proven to be true, for
that to be even close to beinga truth comment?
And it's.
Even in those instances thereare extenuating circumstances
(20:09):
that make it reasonable thatthat happened, that that person
is in fact collecting multiple,whatever assistances, because
but there's just as many whitefolks that do that as there are
people of color, probably morebecause there's, you know, more
systematic abuse amongst whitepeople than any other folks in
(20:30):
the country.
Period, that's just true.
So, people, come on, just think.
Please encourage your friendsto think, because I suspect that
the people who are listening tothis are already kind of on
this side of the fence we'repreaching to the choir, but we
need to get out and get thatword and find loving,
compassionate ways to movepeople away from that thinking
(20:53):
wherever possible.
Because I don't think it ispossible with everybody.
I think some people are just sodyed-in-the-wool stupid just
plain stupid about this stuff,stuff, and are so locked into
their way of thinking thatyou're probably wasting your
breath casting pearls beforeswine if you try to have these
kinds of discussions with them.
I hate to say that, but it's, Ithink, just a reality.
(21:15):
So if you're sensing thatthat's the equation, move on and
pray for them.
That's about the best I thinkany of us can hope to do.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, man, you know, when it comes to DEI, and you
know opportunities, man, youknow, of course, it's constantly
like we've just been talking,it's under attack and it's being
dismantled, whether it'sthrough media, rhetoric,
lawsuits, legislation.
You know, of course, thevictims are people of color.
You know affirmative action,hiring practices, equitable
(21:48):
education policies are alwaysthe first to go.
They always we're seeing likethey're the first to be defunded
, like the Department ofEducation.
Who benefits, great, the mostfrom the Department of Education
?
You know it's going to be ruraland urban areas, right, you
know, but to take away educationat the very core of it, you
(22:10):
know saying, and just basically,like they're trying to make it
to where everything starts to befunneled to these private
schools which a lot of peoplewon't be able to get to or a lot
of people won't qualify for.
No, it is just you're trying tocut the feet from under a whole
Race of people, races of people.
You know these move, these rightwing or conservative movements,
(22:32):
on their position, on the, it'slike they are like a point of
no return, a zero sum game.
They're gaining things, thatmeans we're losing things and,
of course, and what that does,it just kind of promotes that
racial resentment.
It deepens the device, itreinforces the myth that people
(22:54):
of color succeed only onpreferential treatment, not
merit, and of course, that'swhat they talk about, the merit
system.
I'll give you an example DonaldTrump's granddaughter, she was
just, you know, she justqualified for a junior golf
tournament for like the 30 bestfemale 30 best females in the
country and the 30 best males inthe country.
(23:15):
Now, on a national scale,donald trump's granddaughter,
she, out of all these highschool golfers, she ranked 2,
whatever, but she made the top30 somehow.
And you know, and so we just,just, I'm going to say that's
all I'm going to say about that.
But you know, we talk about youknow how DEI takes away
(23:38):
opportunities, man, when theysay we only make it by
preferential treatment, thistactic, it has a psychological
effect on people as well, likeblack professionals, black
students, leaders.
No, we are constantly having todefend our worth, we constantly
have to defend our legitimacy,or we constantly have to defend
that, and I fear for the youngergeneration, or people that have
(24:00):
a weaker spirit, becausethey're going to be constantly
accused of being diversity,hires or quotas, and it's just,
this thing can beat down on aperson and it starts to make
them doubt themselves.
You know, and these, yeah,these micro aggressions and
systemic things that they'redoing serve to discourage future
(24:23):
generations for pursuingopportunities where they might
be most needed, whether it it'slaw, medicine, education,
corporate leadership.
You know the result of thissocial climate where people of
color are constantly forced todefend themselves, their
presence and our worth, right,right.
But now we're about to be shutout of every possible
(24:44):
opportunity.
And that's where you know likewe need the allyship, we need
people to stand up, we needpeople to really just open their
eyes to this thing and, ofcourse, like I say, they call
you woke or they're going to saythey're going to use some form
of reverse racism.
It's been in their favor forhundreds of years.
The same thing has been arguedfor hundreds of years, but now
(25:08):
again, major advancements arestarting to be made.
But here we are again with thisthing and I want to be clear
black people, don't start thismess.
This mess has just been brewingfor years and generations.
But, however, since it has nowbeen made OK to say you're
(25:32):
racist, it's been made OK to saysome of the most hideous things
that are coming out of people'smouths right now, and it's a
sad thing, you know.
Of course we are to beprotecting diversity, equity and
inclusion in all theinstitutions pertaining to life,
and inclusion in all theinstitutions pertaining to life.
You know the justice system,education, the medical field,
(26:00):
all these things you know.
And the sad part is you knowwhy they demonize DEI.
You know it just misinforms.
It'll confuse a well-intendedperson and it'll just confuse
them.
You know, if they are like youmentioned, if a person is stuck
in their news bubble, they won'treally get what diversity,
equity, inclusion is all aboutand we have to fight for it.
(26:21):
It robs us of this.
Attack on DEI is robbing thiscountry of some very significant
growth in the world.
We, the country itself is notfalling behind because of DEI is
(26:42):
not falling behind because ofDEI is falling behind because we
continuously, some of the bestpeople for a job will never get
that job now, or they won't evenbe considered.
And that's where, you know, wehave to open our eyes and say,
hey, no, we can no longer allowthese systemic and systematic
(27:05):
injustices to keep going.
We have to really boldly standup and talk to the lie.
And now, of course, it's hardto.
It's hard to argue against alie or against the way a person
feels.
It's hard to.
You can simply state the truthand keep stating it, you know.
(27:26):
And again, and it's like, andwe better be able to back it up
with fact, you know, with actualfact, because again, you can
talk to a person and maybechange their way.
But when you're talking to agroup of people, like, say, 75
million people, you know whovoted in this past election for
the current situation, it'sgonna be hard to in the course
(27:47):
now and, like we've talked aboutthis a couple weeks ago, the
sad part is a lot of people areseeing things go horribly wrong,
even with the mishandling of.
You know what happened withthis signal app thing where they
actually put attack plans in atext is that DEI wasn't a black
(28:09):
person on the call.
No, tulsi Gabbard she was onthe call.
Are they not calling that a DEIthing now?
So they pick the shoes wherethey want to weaponize it and
demonize it.
But I'll tell you, we'regetting into a point where we
really have to just really stand, talk and be bold about this
(28:32):
subject and there you have it,folks, round one of our
passionate discussion on deidiversity, equity, inclusion.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Look up those three words.
Look them up so that whenyou're talking with a friend of
yours that maybe is you know andtaking down that path, look up
those three words.
Look them up so that whenyou're talking with a friend of
yours that maybe is you know,been taken down that path.
Look up those words so that youknow exactly what they mean,
you know why they've beencategorized in that way.
And try to look up some of theactual examples of diversity,
equity and inclusion being used.
Who does it cover?
Get some knowledge underneathyour you know, in your head to
(29:07):
be able to use.
It's like you know my theaterbackground.
We rehearse.
We rehearse shows.
We first gather as a cast.
We rehearse for six to eightweeks before we ever pull the
curtain.
You know because we know whenwe pull the curtain something's
going to happen on that stageand something's going to happen
out in that audience area and wehope it's going to be good.
So rehearse, get your linesdown right, get the ability to
(29:31):
be able to talk intelligentlyabout it and compassionately,
because we're not just lookingto argue people intellectually
into this.
But you know, I keep thinking instatements like it's not what
you know, it's who you know.
That's been around forever.
You know, and this is exactlywhat's going on right now.
This is the real battle goingon.
It's not what we know, it's whowe know.
(29:52):
That's going to end up gettingpeople their jobs.
It's going to end up gettingtheir positions of power.
That's exactly what's happeningwith every political
administration, since I don'tknow when the people that get
appointed for the cabinets thatmake the big decisions that
affect you and I are appointedbecause of who they know right
and if they don't like it,they're going to remove you Yep
(30:15):
real quickly, Like the blackpresident or chancellor of
Harvard University, as well asthe white female chancellor of
Penn University.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
They used DEI, they used antisemitic whatever to
remove those women and that'sall it was so next time we
continue with our discussion.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Folks, my name is Raul, that's Raul.
Raul DeCresc-McDuff and youyoung men are, and Thorne, and
we are together, coming togetherhere on Kramer Reference, and
we hope that you will comment.
We'll get in the discussion aswell.
Go to wwwforsaukcom and leave acomment.
(31:03):
Please make it something thatwe can discuss instead of
something that just says you'rean idiot, you don't know what
you're talking about.
Blah, blah.
I mean, voice your concerns,voice the things that happened
to you, the real experiences.
That's fine, but you know,let's have a discussion about it
, right, let's try to figure out.
Hey, what's really going on.
Okay, all right, until nexttime.
Amen, see you then.
(31:26):
All right, take care everybody.
Thanks for listening.
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