The Power of Reflective Leadership with Trent Booth

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When was the last time you paused to consider what makes a leader truly effective? Our latest episode features Trent Booth, CEO of Veritas Leadership Group, who shares his wisdom on the transformative impact of executive coaching. Together, we uncover the parallels between theater direction and coaching, highlighting the importance of pausing and reflecting to ensure that leaders make decisions that resonate with their core values and drive organizational growth. Trent's insights bring to light the nuanced art of leadership, where authenticity and alignment are not just buzzwords but the essence of inspiring change.

Wrapped in the melodies of "Fear is Not My Future", we wade into a heartfelt exploration of how our present choices define our identity. Trent and I share personal narratives about the figures who have molded us—from the resilient spirit of Winston Churchill to the tender moments with our own fathers. These stories stitch together a tapestry of our past, informing the leaders we aspire to become. We also delve into the culture of leadership today, recognizing the dire need for resilience and humility, and pondering how adversity shapes the backbone of a true leader.

As we close our conversation, there's a moment to reflect on the significant pauses—the kind that can transform a message or forge an intimate coaching connection. We grapple with the overwhelming waves of information in our modern world, emphasizing the urgency for critical thinking. The episode rounds off with a compelling dialogue on how Trent's unique approach to leadership and executive coaching at Veritas might just be the beacon you've been seeking. Join us for a journey through the landscape of leadership, where the power of self-reflection can create an indelible impact on the future.

Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Frame of Reference.
Informed, intelligentconversations about the issues
and challenges facing everyonein today's world.
In-depth interviews to help youexpand and inform your Frame of
Reference.
Now here's your host, raulLabresch.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome everyone to another episode of Frame of
Reference Profiles in Leadership.
That's right, we are notprofiling people that are just
any old schmo walking across thestreet.
I don't walk around, talk, prayand say, hey you, you look like
you might be a leader and bringthem into the studio.
No, I canvass the entire nation, in fact the whole world, to

(00:42):
try to find real leaders, peoplethat you want to listen to,
because not only are they nicepeople, but they actually know
something about, something thatI learned something from them.
So I figure, if I learn, whycan't you?
Okay, so anyways, my guesttoday is one of those such
people.
His name is Trent Booth.
Trent is the owner, ceo Haipuba, of an organization called

(01:04):
Trent Trent.
It is Veritas Leadership.
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Veritas Leadership Group correct.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, and tell us a little bit, just give us the
elevator speech quick.
If you were to say, you know,I'm the owner, CEO of Veritas
Leadership Group and they say,huh, what do you say to that?

Speaker 3 (01:23):
What is that?
It's actually one of myfavorite questions.
I was in a hot tub in Kauai ayear and a half ago and the guy
says what do you do as you wouldin the tub?
I said I'm an executive coach.
He says it sounds like a bunchof malarkey.
He didn't say malarkey, thoughI'm assuming we have at least a
PG-13 rating.
So I said you're not wrong.

(01:44):
It's a much misunderstood spaceCoaching, if I oversimplify it,
it's simply asking really smartpeople, really good questions.
He goes well, couldn't they dothat on their own?
I said you are correct.
However, most of us won't stop.
The tyranny of the busy startsflowing and it's really tough to

(02:04):
just take a pause and a pivotout of whatever's happening and
what I should be doing.
In our experience, when smartleaders pause, think about
what's the best version of me,what are my core values and what
should I be doing next?
What are my strengths?
What are we great at?
What do we make good profit at?
They make better decisions andthat leads to growth in the

(02:26):
company.
Veritas Leadership Group isdedicated at this point to.
We've got many coaches likemyself.
We go into organizations,typically smaller entrepreneur
like solopreneurs that have asmall team around them.
I usually work with the leadperson and we have a team of
coaches that work with everybodythroughout the organization,
asking good questions andhelping the entire organization

(02:48):
to level up.
Okay, you know this isinteresting.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
As you're talking about that trend, I'm thinking
about my experience as an actorand a director.
My great love is in my master,fine arts and stage direction,
because all the world is a stage.
Right, the great bar figuredthat out hundreds of years ago,
and it is so darn true.
And you know, for a long time Ithought that that was sort of a
you know well, I have a theaterdegree and people were like oh

(03:12):
so you, what did you do?
goof around on it, no, no,actually, there's a lot more to
it than that, and you know thefact that you're responding that
way.
I don't know that, I want to gointo it right now, but the
reality of theater history.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Well, the closure, raul, I was in theater college
before I was even in Biblecollege, so I had at least a cup
of coffee as a, as a.
In fact I did Charlie's on wayback in.
1993 is the hundredth yearanniversary of it, brandon, yeah
, any case.
So, yeah, we share, we share abackground there.
I should also disclose earlythe fact I'm Canadian, so you

(03:46):
are scouring the world route.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, well, you know, and it's interesting that whole
thing with acting to their.
You know the in the old days,in the 19th century, there were
actor managers.
So, addressing kind of the samequestion, you were can't, can't
leaders take care of themselves?
Well, the reality is that actormanagers, who were on stage and
were doing the thing, doing theplay, did not have the

(04:08):
objectivity, did not have theability to step outside of the
play and see what was working,you know, on a total, a gestalt,
you know basis.
So the director, that role of adirector, came out of that
whole process.
So I think you're speaking thesame language that way with
leaders that are, you know, partof their managing, you know
their day to day.

(04:28):
Leaders that are, you know,small entrepreneurs, are
managing.
They got their fingers in everypot there is generally.
So it's really hard to takethat step back and say you know
what, scene two is the one thatreally sucks right now.
We need to work on scene two.
So same thing, different animal, right.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
But I was asked a lot when I was a young actor.
They said oh, you must be greatat lying, you lie
professionally and you're asalesperson.
I was like, wow, double whammy.
My experience with acting wasit was actually harder to grab
what was authentic and real andtrue in the, in the word yeah,
Right, so to be able to take thewords on the page and portray

(05:07):
them in an authentic, believableway, even if I was supposed to
be lying Right Within thecontext of the play, right, so I
think that she connected morewith what was true than what was
the lie, if you will, right.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Right, yeah, what is the engage, the magic lie,
basically, that you can getpeople to accept it.
And you know, the reality isthat the commonality you have to
find.
I know I always had to look atit from the standpoint of even
when I was, when I was playingdespicable characters.
People like, just know, or theyhave awful actions, they do
awful things.

(05:38):
You have to come to therealization that no one sees
themselves as an antagonist, sothe worst people in the world
see themselves as justified indoing the awful things that they
do in some way.
So and there's, you know,that's all over the place in our
world today, right, all kindsof folks that you know, gosh,
why are?
Why are they like this?

(05:59):
And well, they're, but for thegrace of God, go them instead of
you.
So Sure, anywho.

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, we got.
A big part of the work thatwe're doing is we are trying to
ask questions to raise awareness, right, so that is a big part
of that work, right.
So sometimes our selfdelusional, sometimes we're
telling ourselves the narrativethat isn't right, right, aligned
with objective reality.
So the more that we can askquestions to raise awareness,
that gives somebody a shot ofself regulating and perhaps they

(06:25):
get the course.
Yes, very much so.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Well, so Trent and I were trying to do this
conversation a couple of daysback and technology let's just
say technology was off its medsthat day.
And awesome until we were justyou struggling with you know,
every other word was, you know,a half a word and, you know, got
to the point where even Irecognized that there were some

(06:49):
problems with that recording,that we ought to stop and just
try to do this again.
So Trent is with me now, acouple of days later.
We're older, we're wiser, we'vegot better technology, and I'm
leading all up to the fact thathe already had to do my favorite
things.
But, god darn it, you didn'thear his favorite things.
So we're going to do them again, and some of them may be the

(07:09):
same, I don't know.
I don't remember what I wasdoing yesterday, last hour in
fact, so I won't remember what Iasked and what I didn't.
So who knows?
But here we go.
Ready, trent, you're ready todo the quick.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Here we go, I'm ready .
I love this exercise.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
All right, here we go , lead away, favorite chair,
favorite chair.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Favorite chair.
If you are going off the boardnow, you know what this chair
I'm sitting in right now.
It isn't the nicest chair, it'snot the sexiest chair, but it
is the chair I got when I movedto Monterey, when I moved to
Montreal in 1995, and it was myfirst purchase as an
entrepreneur for my very ownoffice.
So this is my favorite chair.

(07:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I was.
I'm glad that you did that,because otherwise I think your
chair would probably startmalfunctioning soon.
You know, because they do, theyhear all, they know what's
going on.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
He's definitely on her last legs.
I wouldn't say as much cushionleft, missing some bold.
But so far so good.
I'll have to upgrade to one ofthose really super gamer chairs.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, you know, I remember Archie Bunker, right,
this chair that he had was just,you know, falling apart, but he
and he either tried to replaceit at one point, I think, and he
was like just blew a gasketCause he's like Not my chair,
not my chair.
I finally got it worn in justthe way I wanted, right?
So how about your favorite song?

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Favorite song.
Oh, you know, there's a version.
I'm more of a live music typeof guy and there's a version
live of where the streets haveno name, by you two, played at a
Boston concert I believe about2001, that he put scripture at
the beginning and it is.
It will be played at my funeral.
Wow, it is just.
It's majestic, it is, it builds, it swoons, and I think it

(08:47):
really just moves me.
My kids used to call it themagic song when we would drive
around, when they were verylittle, in the car.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Streets have no name by you.
Two streets have no name, butI'm going to have to remember
that.
Well, thankfully I don't haveto remember too hard because I
can just go back and play thisbroadcast again.
I've listened to some YouTube,but I can't say I've listened to
a ton of YouTube music, so be agood opportunity for me to
re-appoint.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
You're right, the Joshua Tree also holds up very
well.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Steminal moment.
I would say in a rock.
Okay, I'd like to tie thistrick to independence and ugh.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
They have a quote.
Jim Rohn used to say when thepromise is clear, the price is
easy.
That has guided me quite a bitover the years.
It's really getting to the ideaof.
Napoleon Hill used to talkabout having a definite major
purpose.
You know something that you'rereally going after a few years
back oh, I'm going back probably15 years now I did an ultra

(09:37):
marathon and I was pitching theentire.
That's 50 miles or more in onetime.
One such that's a long drive andit's a longer run is nine and a
half hours of pounding, and Itrained for eight months for
that event and the entire timethat was one of the mantras for
me, which was when the promiseis clear, the price is easy.
The inverse is true as well.
When the promise is not clear,that's where it gets real

(09:58):
difficult, and I think it doescertainly speak to even the
Psalmist that says that whenthere is no vision to, people
perish.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
When the promise is clear, the price is easy.
In other words, you can.
If you can identifyspecifically what you're after,
you can also identify that theprice is worth it, because
you've already identified thatthat promise is Even though
there's a lot of pain if thepull of what the promise is the
pull of the desire is enough.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
That could get us through, can it?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah Well, I just saw a song my daughter had run
across it by, I think it's theMaverick City group, called the
Future is Not my oh gosh.
What is the future is not mystory, I think, and it's
basically a song about claimingthe fact that I don't have to be

(10:47):
defined by my past and I don'thave to be defined by my future.
I can be defined by what is nowand by grabbing a hold of it,
you know strongly that it'sreally powerful, because it's
not only this like small groupof people that are singing.
This song, which was written byAndrew Lake, I believe, is the
guy that wrote the song througha community of groups.

(11:09):
And boy, they just get going,and then there's a pastor in the
midst of it that starts talkingand preaching and it's just.
It's a fantastic.
I mean one of those where youwatch like 18 minutes long and
by the end of it you're like yes, yes, you know just totally
pumped up.
I love it, but I'll lookforward to checking that out.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
That reminds me of work I did about 10 years ago,
as in a course it's a leadershipcourse at church, but he asked
the question like you know, whatis your identity?
And a bunch of people were likeI'm a dad, I'm a sales guy, I'm
a leader, and what emerged wasall those were roles, all those
things that we threw out andit's not uncommon for guys to
confuse their identity with whatwe do yeah, but what emerged

(11:51):
that day was a clarity for methat I am a son of God and I'm a
sinner saved by grace.
As much as things change overtime, over the next million
years, those two things do notchange Child to God, sinner
saved by grace.
Beautiful truth.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
I just looked it up too, because I knew I was
getting in wrong.
It's Brandon Lake and ChandlerMoore.
The song is called Fear is Notmy Future.
Fear is not my future.
Fear is not my future.
I'll check that one out, andMaverick City Music is the group
that put it together.
But they did a recording inAlabama.
I believe was it was in memoryof the North Carolina massacre

(12:30):
with a kid that came into theBible study and was welcomed in
and went out and then open fireand killed nine people or
whatever.
It's a real testimony of thefact that we don't have to be
stuck in things like that.
That's not our future to bestuck in that stuff.
So, anyway, how about afavorite historical personality?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yeah, I'm a sucker for Winston Churchill.
That is by way of mygrandfather.
He was a just loved World WarII history.
He served in the Canadian Navyas well, and my grandfather my
mom's side, did as well the AirForce, but he just loved reading
about it and he passed thatdown to me as well.
So to study Churchill, what afactor right there, man.

(13:13):
What a force of nature.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Do you have a favorite quote of his that you
go to?

Speaker 3 (13:18):
You know I probably do, but I'm going to butcher it
here, this, but I'm just goingto miss it.
So, I'll have to pass on myChurchill quotes for today.
You were a lot easier onWednesday, man.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
He never said that he was swine.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
There's something about him.
It should be better atmemorizing.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
There's something about him, a story with him in
FDR.
He was taking a bath orsomething and stood up in all of
his glory and said somethingabout you know, there's nothing
that I would hide, personally orprofessionally, from you, mr
President.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
So I mean so reportedly in politics are a
little different.
In Britain, Canada, they havethe same parliament, where
you're across the aisle, likereally eight feet away from from
your enemy.
And she said you, Mr Churchill,are drunken.
It's in the morning.
And he responded something tothe effect of you are correct,
but you are a terrible person.
Tomorrow I shall be sober.

(14:12):
You shall remain the same Oneof those.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
That's one that I remember.
I remember that Churchill wasjust a fascinating guy you think
of.
How have he not been there inWorld War Two?
You know, had that not happened, boy, you know, imagine how
different the world could betoday.
So it's like FDR, you know, Ikind of think about FDR being
elected in 44.
And you know all this talkabout both candidates are too

(14:38):
old and it's like did you eversee pictures of FDR when he was
elected for his third term?
Yeah, he was not exactly thepicture of health at that point.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
He was a green chicken, huh.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, exactly.
How about last one?
Do you have a secret memoryfrom childhood that when you
think about it, when it comes tomind, when you're reminded of
it in passing through life,right, maybe you just see those
things and all of a sudden, oh,that makes me think of it.
And it's a comfortable place,it's a secure place, it's a
happy place that you go back towhen you recall that thing.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Or, yeah, I remember as a young boy, probably about
five years old, just in front ofthe fireplace wrestling with my
dad and his whiskers scratchingmy face, and what an amazing
and it smells.
And just being there wrapped upin the arms of my old daddio is
a tremendous memory and it'sone that you know as a final to

(15:33):
now adult kids, at this pointyou know it certainly should
inform how we show up as dadsand try to, you know, pay that
forward and repeat the positiveaspects of that Sure Going
forward, Sure.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Well, trent, you've had I have to say you know the
things that we talked about theother day.
You've had a really interestingjourney from what we talked
about, in terms of how you gotfrom your initial career moves
and steps to where you are now.
And yet I feel the same way withmy own journey.
I look back at things and think, you know, that was a necessary

(16:09):
point in order for me to get towhere I am now.
That was a that, even thoughmaybe at that time it was really
hard and I really struggledwith you know, why aren't I a
big star, you know, and all thatnonsense but I can look back at
it and say, no, it's good, thatI'm thankful for that, because
that was super critical to who Iam today.

(16:30):
What was your journey like?
Can you resonate with that?
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (16:35):
Well, it really does.
I actually would celebrate thatas well.
If I believe in a God that'sgoing to work all things to good
, that means even those Valleyexperiences.
Not only was that not alone, Iwas seen, loved, carried through
.
Not only that, those are soimportant to me to have empathy,
to be able to serve others well.
Now you know it's been a whilesince I've done keynote speeches

(16:57):
, but I would often askaudiences and connect with them
on those Valley experiences.
Not everybody can relate tobeing on the mountaintop, but
when I invoke something like hey, tell me about your worst day,
or think about your worst dayfor a moment, everybody has
probably a day, if not a season,that they can point back to and
say that was hard.
And I would say that if wehandle those Valley experiences

(17:18):
well, I believe that we areequally invited to help others
through their Valley experiencesbecause we've been through that
Valley.
So even for our kids, you know,with one of my friends we
talked about trying to put ourkids in opportunities where they
can get punched in the face bylife.
As visceral as that example is,builds character.

(17:39):
We've skinned their knees andwe've been laid low.
In fact, I would.
I would be very nervous to lockarms with another leader that
had not suffered or or beenthrough some difficult days.
Yeah, in terms of seasoning andforging of character, yeah, you
know, hear me, I crave comfort,like everyone else, I would
rather trade in a second.

(18:00):
Right, my battle.
Scars for comfort.
However, I do not lament thefact that that they are designed
to help me help other people.
Both the good and the bad daysare designed for me to bring
comfort to others.
So there's a song by Metallicacalled show your scars.
Yeah, it's called broken beatsscarred, and one of the lyrics

(18:22):
in the song is show your scars.
Now, for me, it's not a matterof declaring my awesomeness, so
much as I'm not ashamed of myscars either.
Right, you speak in the wordsof Paul.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
There's a song that effect.
I forget the name of the artist.
Thank you for the scars.
I think it's a contemporary CCMpiece, but that also.
I'm a big Star Trek fan.
I mean, since I was a littlekid.
I've been watching it since 66when it was actually on TV, and
it was.
I remember that as the moviescame along.

(18:55):
It's always been interestingthat the odd numbered movies
there's like a Star Trek curse,that the odd numbered movies
always suck in the even side.
Numbered movies are wonderfuland I challenge that Right.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, number two.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
And I challenge that because actually one of my
favorite moments, or some of myfavorite moments in films are in
five, which you know, thesearch, the.
You know that one got the Godthing or whatnot.
But there's a wonderful thingin there where Cybac, you know
the Spock's half brother, istrying to get followers by
taking away their pain, you know, and he does it successfully

(19:31):
with with McCoy and tries to doit with Spock and by doing like
taking their worst day,basically, and trying to, you
know, get to the point whereonce he has that pain, that he
takes that pain away and hetries to do the same darn thing
to Kirk and Kirk says I don'twant you to take away my pain, I
need my pain.
And it's a wonderfully actedmoment by Shatner and that scene

(19:53):
made me think about he'sabsolutely right, if you take
away a person's pain, you takeaway a good part of their
definition.
And that that to me was areally insightful thing, that in
the campfire scene wherethey're singing Ro Ro Ro your
boat and Spock says, captain,life is not a dream.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
I took my daughter to the Museum of Natural History
at one point and then in here inPhiladelphia area where I live
now we live outside in NewJersey, but we took her to this
butterfly exhibit and she wasbeing.
This butterfly emerged from thechrysalis and she was
traumatized as a kindergarten.
She said daddy, this butterflylooks like it's dying, trying to

(20:33):
emerge from the cocoon.
Why doesn't somebody help thebutterfly?
And I had to whisper to her.
I said, babe, if we help thebutterfly by opening the cocoon
and it doesn't fight to get out,it will surely die.
The butterfly needs to exerciseagainst that resistance to get
the fluid in its wings so thatwhen the wings dry it can fly.

(20:55):
Otherwise it's surely it willdie.
So the butterfly requires thestruggle to be able to fly and
it's been something that'sreally guided her and I since
that magical moment 17 years ago.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Wow, I've never known that before.
That's that, you know, I'vethey had a butterfly.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
We need it.
We need your struggle.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, just another greatexample of how everything is
designed right To inform otherthings.
Is there a lesson that youthink I don't know that you
could pin it down to one, butwould you say that there's a
critical lesson that you thinkmost leaders have had but don't
realize how critical it is?
Is there such a thing as asingular, or is it just a

(21:37):
particular theme or idea?
Is there something that youthink is so core that any leader
that doesn't experience it orhave some crucible moment, if
you will like that that it'sjust always gonna hinder them
and they need to learn toembrace it somehow?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Yeah, I would say in general the whole concept of
adversity.
You know, when I'm talking tosometimes young, there's, let's
say, a young guy in his twenties.
I remember having this oneconversation and he was a bit of
an outlier.
He got out to a nice start ofhis career and I asked him about
his worst day and he didn'thave an answer.
I was very concerned for himbecause that means it's still in
front of him.

(22:14):
If you haven't been battletested, if you kind of haven't
got your sea legs, the time todiscover those sea legs is not
in the biggest storm.
You want to get thosebeforehand.
So what I would say,generically speaking, is that
the best leaders I've observedover time are the ones that
learn the lessons, even in thosehard seasons, whether the

(22:34):
mistake was theirs or somebodyelse's.
They're looking to grow fromthat.
They're looking to mine thosedifficult experiences for as
much silver lining as they canpull out of that so that can
inform other decisions goingforward or perhaps help them
feel differently about whathappened.
That has time to kind of workthrough it.
The point being that what youshow me a leader with no scars

(22:56):
that I'm not sure we're lookingat.
A leader, sure.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Do you think?
I look at today's world and alot of the folks that are
leaders by position and they'renot leaders by the quality of
people wanting to follow them.
And yet I also see people thatare being followed that I look
at and think why?
Why are people following thatperson?

(23:22):
And the single thing that I seein that is the leaders that are
in either of those categories,whether people are following
them or not, tend to be peoplethat put the onus of a failure,
any failure, on someone else,something else, something that
was unfair to them, somethingwhere they get to play the

(23:49):
victim, if you will I don't knowvictim's the right word but
they get to be the protagonistthat was unfairly hit by
whatever this circumstance was.
What is it about that?
Because to me that's like theantithesis of a good leader.
I think of Harry Truman andsaying the book stops here.
It's just that quality ofsaying you know what?

(24:11):
Even if I didn't make thedecision myself directly as the
leader, I still have to takeresponsibility for the fact that
it happened and more so, I haveto take responsibility for
getting us out of theconsequences of that.
Now Is that am I misreadingthings?
But that attitude, thatenvironment in our culture today

(24:33):
, globally and in the US, reallyconcerns me.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
I don't know if it's new.
I would argue it's notnecessarily new.
However, we're seeing more ofit because of the proliferation
of social media, so everyone hasa microphone.
Now there's a title of a bookcalled the Death of Expertise,
and the challenge is anybody whohangs a shingle can be an
expert now.
Now, that could be wonderful asequal parts crazy, if not

(25:00):
filtering the voices that we'relistening to, right?
So somebody doesn't have todeclare themselves as a leader.
If they're an influencer, bydefinition, they're leading.
Now the question is are theyleading well or are they leading
poorly?
My friend, andrew Cavillage, isa pastor at our church and he'll
walk up to a young kid andthey'll say somebody do the
effect of.
You are clearly a leader, youdemonstrate all kinds of

(25:23):
leadership qualities.
The question is are you goingto be a good leader or a bad one
?
And I'll joke about hey, let'skeep this kid on the path for
good, because if we startchasing the path for evil, who
knows where that could go thenext Darth Vader?
The point being that we've gotto find ways to invite people to

(25:44):
step into that narrow path tolead well.
And if you talk aboutaccountability being part of
that, it's a tricky time becauseI would say I've seen abuse go
both ways.
I've seen people say thingslike well, the secret?
And they say that I amabsolutely responsible for
everything that happens aroundme.
Now they're a big fan of whenthat means that led to my
becoming wealthy.
And this is an old ethic, thesecret.

(26:05):
It hasn't even been relevantfor, I would say, 15 years.
Those same people aren't takingresponsibility if they've got
cancer and it's part of the samereason.
I would throw that whole ethicout of the secret.
I'm glad it's not a thinganymore, but it's not new again,
right?
So taking responsibility foreverything will just make us
tired trying to influence thingsthat we cannot or should not
and not meant to influence.

(26:26):
Praying for a sunny day on mywedding is probably not the
right way to spend time on myknees Praying that I would be
having a great day regardless ofwhether it's raining or sunny.
That's probably the betterethic, right?
Lord, would you change me?
It's not all about me.
On the other side, I doencourage leaders to take as
much accountability,responsibility, as they possibly

(26:47):
can.
It is wildly refreshing becauseof the dynamic that you're
referring to, regardless ofpolitics, if you take a look at
both sides would say, hey, ifthey have messed up, nobody's
saying I done messed up,nobody's taking responsibility
for it.
And the more that we get tosensitize to that, the more we
celebrate leaders who are notonly not taking accountability,

(27:10):
we're being celebrated for that.
Unfortunately, I would say thatwe were reinforcing that weak
ethic.
That said, there's always if MrRogers says during 9-11,
there's always somebody runningtowards the fire, there's people
helping.
I would say there are voicesthat are also helping, saying
take responsibility, own whatyou can in a challenge.
Even if I'm reaching a littlebit, I'm gonna own anything I

(27:32):
can in our conflict with oneanother, because I wanna be able
to move forward.
That takes humility, which isalso, I would say, in short
supply today.
However, it's not gone, butwhen you find it, let's spend
more time there.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Do you find, do you have a relatively I don't know,
do you find yourself going to alitmus test of sorts when you're
listening to someone orobserving someone's leadership
style?
Is there any kind of a?

Speaker 3 (27:59):
just a, oh yeah, oh yeah, careful, there, careful,
and this mighty sense startstingling once I find somebody
sharing and I don't find that tobe authentic or genuine.
Okay, and I think that there isa greater scrutiny and it's
appropriate and good in terms ofbeing able to determine who's
being authentic, who's beingreal.

(28:19):
Gary Vaynerchuk would be one ofmy guilty pleasures right now
not say for work language.
It's typically very you saysentence enhancers spice
throughout.
Right, that said, is you don'tquestion whether he believes
what he's saying and whetherhe's being authentic and real,
if you will, and that real pieceis very attractive.

(28:39):
I would even argue politically.
You've seen, part of whatpeople have loved about Donald
Trump is the fact that boy, thatguy does speak.
He sounds like us and we preferthat to the political speak
that we've been hearing foryears.
I think you can make anargument.
Maybe we swung the pendulum toofar.
That said is right.
Yeah, think People who, if theysay things that are just not

(29:00):
true, so as much as thatbackground, had theater school
and then Bible college.
I didn't finish any college inthe end.
I'm grateful for that season inBible college because I pinned
down what I would callpresuppositions, shortcuts with
how the world works.
I'm still open to learning andeven tweaking some of those core
values.
That said is now I've got acoffee filter which I could run

(29:24):
all these ideas through.
I got this nice basket ofcoffee grounds, and I'm gonna
keep this delicious pot ofcoffee and I'm gonna throw out
the coffee grounds.
So, regardless of the speaker,even if I'm listening to a John
Maxwell, I'm always asking iswhat he's saying true?
And I prefer to listen to moreand more people where I'm going
99% of the time, or all the time.

(29:44):
Wow, yes, it's a lot less workto filter here, because they're
just spot on as opposed to well,is it, though?
It's one of the ways that Idefine good or great books.
If the book is just good, I'mlike put it down.
The world's full of great bookswaiting for you.
You don't have enough time toget all the great books in.

(30:04):
Put the book down.
I started reading a book calledthe Four Agreements.
I thought it was terrible, andI wanted to push through it just
to see, hey, he's just going tohelp me change a little bit or
tweak my philosophy.
I'm like no, this book, justobjectively for me, has things
that I just diametricallyopposed to.
I'm like yeah, it's not true.
So I put the book down.

(30:24):
I think I'm good.
Move on, I'm not explored.
Moving on Right, right.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Do you?
You know, you mentioned beforehow, nowadays, with our social
media, that everyone can be anexpert and that that, to me, is
perhaps one of the mostdangerous signals that I see,
because we have and we really dohave experts in various domains
.
So we are people that havestudied it, looked at the data,

(30:49):
have analyzed the data, haveseen things in that domain from
so many different angles, waybeyond most of us, you know, end
up having as an opportunity orthe time to do so.
So to me, that kind ofexpertise is always going to be
different than someone that hasan opinion about it.
But for whatever reasons, theirdegree of influence, their
degree of charisma, whatevertheir degree of affability and

(31:13):
affinity with what I come tothat media with, you know,
because I'm going toconformational bias right, I'm
going to have a preconceivednotion of what I think is true.
And when I hear this, you knowa guy or gal saying something
like yeah, I've seen that too.
I'm much willing to buy the liethat this person is an expert.

(31:33):
How do you combat that?
How do you?
What do you?
Is there such a thing as amagic elixir that can get people
to do that?
Critical thinking.
Again, that requires, as you'resaying, right, and it doesn't
quite ring true, because I fearthat too many of us are not even
taking that step anymore.
We're just saying, well, hesaid it and I believe him, and I

(31:54):
believe it, and that's what I'moperating on.
It's like, yeah, but did youlook at all?
No, no, no, that's all fakenews, that's all right and I you
know.
Once you start doing that, theneverything's up for grabs.
I mean, I don't get it.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yes, it's, it's super easy just to tune into my
favorite channel for my news andnot have to think, yeah, just
accept it.
And, by the way, both sideshave it Again.
I'm coming from Canada, wherewe've got four parties in the
States.
Here it's a little more binaryright, right, left or right and
I'm going to watch my news and Idon't have to think, yeah here.
Yeah, I love it when people I'mcoaching, when they form the

(32:30):
question and as they're doing it, they actually answer their own
question.
And you said it when youdescribed critical thinking.
And one of the reasons that wesacrificed to put our kids
through classical private schoolwas the whole concept the
desire for them to learn how tothink, not just what.
And, of course, we hope thattheir core values are aligned

(32:53):
with ours when they come throughthat.
However, that has to besecondary to teaching them how
to critically think.
Right, so they learned logic.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
They went to the original source.
Instead of reading somebodywriting about what the slaves
experience, they would read ajournal from a slave.
Right, they would go back tothe original and then they
learned by clashing and havingdebate and talking through those
big ideas, sure, and with alogic tree, using simple math,
even being able to come up with,well, this means this and this

(33:26):
is this, then that can't be true.
So if objective truth can bediscerned, can be determined,
right To pursue, that actuallymatters.
And you asked about Veritasleadership group.
The term Veritas is simplyLatin for the word truth.
I believe that if we ask enoughquestions, the truth can emerge.
The truth can set us free andwe can be able to get unstuck

(33:48):
and move forward, whether it bebusiness or life, etc.
So, for our kids, what youcan't do, the genie's out of the
bottle.
When it comes to social media,we're not going to undo web 3.0.
This is a thing, and now we gotAI on top of it A lie.
Studying lies.
Let's go.
We have to be able to engage acritical mind to filter all the

(34:09):
thoughts, because there's a lotof them, right, and regardless
of whether somebody's got atitle or not, we want to filter
both.
Right, I am more prone tobelieve a doctor, but that's
more by generation.
My daughter did a thesis at theend of her high school, like
senior year, on the distrust ofdoctors right now.
So here's a classic example.

(34:31):
I'm going to put Tony Robbins onblast because people go oh,
your leadership coach must loveTony Robbins.
He's actually the one guy I'venever attended one of his events
or celebrated one of his CDs Iwas listening to one time.
My wife is a dietitian,educated by science to know how
the body digests food.
Tony Robbins comes out and sayshey, the same enzymes that
digest meat cancel the enzymesthat digest potatoes and you're

(34:54):
having meat and potatoes.
No wonder it takes so long todigest.
And this is my dietitian wife.
I said is this true?
She said no, that's simply nothow the body works.
But Tony Robbins is charismatic.
He's he's states of suchconviction that it must be what
it must be true regardless ofwhat you know, spicy words, so

(35:16):
science.
Yes, he's not afraid of sentenceand answers either.
I'm just saying, at some pointI'm like well, if he's wrong on
that one, what else is he wrongwith?
Because my grandfather used tosay there's never one cockroach,
right, right, right.
Well, he's wrong here.
He's probably wrong in otherareas.
Flag on the play.
Let's start paying attention towhat's being said.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah Well, and you think about that too those
personalities, that force ofwill is oftentimes what you know
.
You can look at and say well,they're just willing it to
happen.
I mean, they're, they're soconvinced that they are right
and that they have the answerthat they're just going to push
through, they're going to pushdown, they're going to, you know

(35:58):
, push aside anyone that gets inthe way of that.
In that, that strong man orwoman, you know, mentality is
really getting a lot of tractionand, as you said, it's not a
new thing, it's just, you know,maybe it's just made it much
more.
We're seeing it in a lot morecolors.
It's like you know, an NBC infull color, you know well.
Now we're seeing that.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I'm not going to make many friends today the
leadership community because I'mgoing to take a shot at Steve
Jobs here today, st Steve Jobsright Right.
Right.
If you read his book, I'm like,oh no, yeah, oh no.
So they described it as areality distortion field going
out from him, and when it worked, it was great.
That's how it'll come.

(36:39):
We're all on an iPhone rightnow, coming to you from Mac.
However, there's many timeswhere it did not work,
especially when he's likegaslighting his daughter,
especially when he's trying togaslight the board and
eventually they throw him out.
There's certain things wherethat's not okay, that's not good
, actually, that's terrible.
Right In that case, thechallenge being, if we study

(37:00):
that and say, okay, well, itworked here and because it
pragmatically was effective inthis one moment, now we need to
study Steve Jobs in executiveleadership.
I'm saying no, actually, thatwould be a cautionary tale of
whoa.
When we're not listening to ourpeople and connecting with them
, when we're not enrolling thosearound those around us, that
actually is a terrible way tolead and we need to use that

(37:22):
example.
I'm glad I read the book still,but I'm celebrating Steve Jobs
a little less at the end, right,right.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
It's kind of that.
What's the model?
I've heard people talking aboutthe extrinsics of a leader
versus the intrinsics of aleader, and the extrinsic is
much more about the.
You know order, get the jobdone, blah, blah.
You know just, very objective,very.
You know we hit this profitmargin, we hit this goal.
Everything is very and that'swhat defines right.
The old adage of Andrew Carnegiemust have been a fantastic

(37:52):
leader because he was sofinancially competent and built
such a huge empire.
Works.
Intrinsic leaders are much moreabout the.
Well, yeah, but are our peoplefeeling like they're actually
growing?
Do they want to be a part ofwhat's going on here?
Are they feeling safe andwanting to work together?
And both sides look at that andI think, see, the other side is

(38:14):
either weak or stupid.
You know I'm not sure whichthing.
So do you, when you're workingwith leaders in your, in your,
your tutelage, do you look atthose sorts of things and just
try to say, well, yeah, this hasgot applications here, this has
got applications here.
You've got to find yourmarriage of those two so that
you can be as effective as youprobably can be Does that make

(38:37):
sense.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
So, as a coach, we're trying to be really curious as
opposed to really decided orreally judgmental.
Even so, we're trying to bringa non-judgmental feedback loop
to the scenario.
That said, of course I've gotto, I've got to bias one way or
the other.
So, as much as that is shapingsome of the questions, the more
open-ended questions I can askand not allow them to just park

(39:00):
where they're comfortable.
We want to help them range outa little further from that.
So here's where this often willwill show its head.
They'll ask a binary questionlike is this right or am I crazy
?
Is this a good strategy or am Iway off?
Here I could say, well, whatelse could it be?
There's many other options.
It's usually not just twooptions here.

(39:21):
As we're working through whatwe could do here, what else
could we do?
What if we didn't have to beright?
What else could we do?
Hey, have you thought aboutthis?
So I'm trying to ask, sometimesleading questions to help them
arrive at other possibilitiesfor them then to decide which
direction that they're going totake.
And hear me right, unlessthey're running off a cliff,

(39:42):
most times I'm gonna let themrun where they're going if it's
not the way I would choose ornot, that doesn't matter.
Sometimes they come up withABCD and I'm going D's the
option.
They go I'm gonna run with a.
It's an.
Alright, tell me about a.
If a went bad, where could thathappen?
Where could that go south?
We work through it, we vet it.
They're confident, they'recomfortable in their strategies
and they've got a great strategynow we're gonna talk again in

(40:04):
two weeks.
Well, if they were wrong?
Sometimes we know in two weeks,as they scrape their knees a
little bit, it's usually not acareer ending injury might have
to come out for a play, but theyreassess.
Sometimes we go back to the oldpile of solutions and pick a
new one.
Sometimes we got to come upwith a new board, right, but
that gives us an opportunity tolearn, but to learn quickly, if

(40:25):
you will.
Now, on the other side, I'lltell you well, I've had people
where I'm like D's the answer.
They go back to a and a Worksand I'm like huh, that's crazy.
No, I can't share that my job.
Right, there's no way that work.
That's amazing.
No wrong response, right, we'recoach.
Experience coach says nice.

(40:46):
Tell me more about that.
Here's the thing.
I have to trust that they knowthe map of their life far
greater than I could.
In other words, I'm not aconsultant.
As a coach, then I'm designedto really hold a mirror up for
them and give them greaterknowledge that if there is
spinach in the teeth, they cansee, that if they need to fix a
hair it's out of place.
I'm holding that mirror up,raising awareness so that they

(41:08):
can make the choices.
The good news is, when D At ora works for them, it works for
them and it wasn't me thatbecame awesome.
That's also helped me functionin Business areas or even
industries where I have noexperience.
Maybe I learned the languageand I can ask good questions,
but what do I know about finance?
And actually financial advisorshas been the niche that we've

(41:29):
got drilled down into.
Sure, over here I've learnedthe language, you know what's an
FIA, all that fun stuff, but Idon't come up in that world.
I came up in a sales world, soI can still lead because I'm not
trying to be a consultant forthem or a business guru.
In my experience, they have theanswers if they can slow down
long enough, pause long enoughto consider what the best moves

(41:50):
are, what their strengths areand where they could go.
That's when we get the magic.
Frankly, part of that too, raul, is they're more likely to try
the solution that they came upwith.
Yeah, I didn't have to sellthem on it.
Yeah, and if they meetresistance with that, if they
don't get immediate success,they've got faith to push
through that because it isthere's right and keep mine.
Before they left, we've addedtheir plan, so I've gone through

(42:12):
it together and now they've gotwhere it used to be just the
army of one.
There's at least an army of twonow.
I'm Raven, waving pom-poms forthem, sure, and celebrating
their action and as they moveforward.
I had so much more satisfyingthan just deferring to Salted,
if you will.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
And maybe it's because you've got some acting
background too, but that you're,as you're saying things I keep
thinking of, of acting anddirecting exercises that I use
with people in, and that thatmakes me think of an exercise I
found it can be reallysuccessful and helpful with
people is that to ask an actorTo say to me Okay, here's your

(42:48):
line to be or not to be right,and then I'll say, okay, you
need to now take that line toyourself and say where is the
pause?
And I'll give the example of tobe or not to be, or to Be or
not be, or To be or not To be.

(43:14):
I mean, each of those pausesright in a different place Says
a different thing.
They're all it's exactly thesame words, right, exactly, and
yet the pause is what makes allthe difference.
So I use that as an example tosay you need to realize where
your pauses are, where you willbe most authentic with the line,

(43:36):
because that pause makes themost sense to you.
So Translate that and I havepeople you know regularly.
It's like no one ever said thatsort of thing.
I'm so well you know.
Let me tell you, as a guy thathas experienced a lot of pauses
in life.
I can tell you, I'm sure, thatthe pauses are some of the most
important things that you do inlife.
So, anyways, sorry.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
From from acting.
It really is, because words,they do matter, but so do the
pauses.
And I'll actually use that sameanalogy when I'm working with
people to not send the angrytext.
They want to.
They want to handle conflictvia email or text and I'm like
well, your pause doesn't go atthe same place, theirs does.
He said to be or not to be.

(44:23):
They read to be or not to be.
This guy wants me dead.
Interpretation really doesmatter, and even taking that
further by giving an actor anopportunity to have choices.
So instead of the, there aredirectors that still do this.
No, that's wrong, that'sterrible.
Instead of okay, I see what youdid there.

(44:44):
What if we put emphasis on adifferent word this time, at a
different pause this time?
What if you played with fivedifferent ways to do it, or all
the possible ways to do it?

Speaker 1 (44:54):
and there, are finite number of ways for those Six
words wherever it is right.

Speaker 3 (44:57):
There's a finite combination.
Try them all and see which onematches the character's
motivation best.
Wow, now that's open-ended.
Instead of like there's rightand there was wrong, there's
like there's still layers hereof beauty.
That's more the art, and that'swhere we need both art and
science, right.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Right.
Well, it's the the beauty ofquantum computing, right?
Quantum computing, you, finally, computers, are gonna have the
ability to not just do yes or no, but both.
You know.
So when you have theopportunity to do both, then
there's infinite numbers ofcapabilities, or you know
Possibilities which I'm curiousto see how that turns out.
So I hope I it's a littlebetter.

(45:35):
I mean really right, yeah, Ihope it's better at discerning
what's true and what isn't.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Then then we are oftentimes Well, that's why
we're always gonna need humans,and I'm a big fan of AI when it
works for us.
Again, similar to technology,right, but again the same thing
that allows us to connect, Imean, across the country.
At this point, it's amazing thefact that we get to do this.
I forget that I'm actually in astudio in my basement in New
Jersey.
I've just been connecting,communing with you.
What a time to be alive we're.

(46:00):
Even four years ago, I used toask people like Do you have zoom
?
I don't even need to ask thatanymore.
Right, things are coming up,but even when it comes to AI and
technology, the hands of theuser is going to determine
whether that's used for good,what's used for bad again,
including either.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
So we're gonna run out of time.
Of course, that's what happenswhen I get talking with somebody
I'm enjoying talking with.
I hope you're enjoying talkingwith me.
I'll got, who knows.
But anyways, all that beingsaid, do you, with your
leadership, with Veritas, isthere a screening test or just
an initial interview test thatyou do that helps you determine

(46:40):
and Helps the, the peopleconsidering using your services,
helps you determine Is it agood fit, you know, will this
work?
Is this or is this a personthat just is too far down or,
you know, too entrenched in away of thinking that they're
probably not gonna be a good fitand vice versa.
Things that you would encouragea Potential client to do to
determine for themselves Am I agood fit with what you're trying

(47:03):
to do right now?

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Yes, yes, great question.
You know, very often people cancheck out some of our material
Myself, the other coaches, etc.
And see if there's a vibe check.
If there's a vibe fit rightaway, that's a good start.
If they listen to a podcastthat I've done and they go hey,
that resonates with me.
Chances are very good because Ihave been working really hard
to try and have the same guythat I show up here Would be the

(47:24):
same guy on the coachingsession starting in 15 minutes.
I want to be the same guy inboth faces and it's not a fit
for everybody and I get that.
It's rare that I'll get on acall with somebody and we're
just not a fit, depending on,maybe, what they're looking for
or what I do.
You know, sometimes people arereally looking for therapy and
that's not a fit in coaching.
Resuming that somebody'srelatively healthy, happy and
whole, they really need to dosome of that deep work.

(47:46):
Boy, I celebrate a greattherapist.
I'm not done needing therapyright at some point.
Right, that's a great spot forthem.
Coaching is a different, ethicaltogether.
Occasionally, though, and whatI will encourage people is hey,
at the end of our time together,this intake session, if we're
not a fit, you'll have a betterrubric to determine what you are
looking for to find the rightcoach.

(48:07):
That is important.
This is one of the mostintimate relationships that
you're gonna set up.
You get to choose, like everyother relationship.
In this case, I would say aMeasure twice cut once.
When it comes to your coach,you want to make sure you've got
the right one, because thiswill probably be a relationship.
In our case, it's more commonthat it's years than just weeks

(48:28):
or months.
Usually we have a very highretention rate Because we do
typically fit sometimes peopleare looking for hey.
I want the Tony Robbins.
Whatever you, whatever the mindof a man can conceive it can
achieve.
I'm like, okay, I'm not yourguy, I do have a buddy that does
that type of coaching.
Here he is and he's gonna be afit for you.
But, typically speaking, itusually is a fit by the time I'm

(48:50):
dialing it with somebody andsometimes it's like, hey, it's a
right idea, but the wrong time.
Maybe they have the resourcesfor it right now, at least them
knowing where this is.
And we do have a lot of freeresources Between podcasts and
YouTube and we're putting out alot of content, you know, even
from podcasts like this, to beable to help people get them
unstuck, etc.
But, yeah, I definitelyrecommend that you pay attention

(49:14):
to who's mentoring you, who'sleading you, that voice of
reason, because things are gonnabeat the screen.
Right, we talked about thefilter and our critical thought.
Things are gonna beat thescreen.
We're gonna be influenced bythose we're listening to.
So let's make sure that theperson that we are Attaching our
wagon to goes there on a paththat we want to be on sure, sure
, and you better know what thatpath is.
So yeah, do the gut check Rightright.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Folks, my guest today has been Trent Booth.
Trent is the CEO and founder ofan organization called the
Veritas Leadership Group.
Trent, where should people goif they want to know more about
you, your group, your mantra,your special sauce?
Where should they go?

Speaker 3 (49:54):
The website is probably the best place.
That isveritasleadershipgrouporg.
It might be easier to findTrent Booth.
I'm on almost all social mediaplatforms.
If you search Trent Booth,you'll find me.
Tiktok yeah, I'm trying.
I'm trying to stay on TikTok.
It's the one where it's notsuper relevant, but I'm the bent

(50:14):
truth on TikTok.
You'll find me there.
Coach one time called me thebent truth, not Trent Booth.
So if you look Trent Booth,you'll probably find me.
Although at last search onGoogle, there were eight of us
on Team Human, so I am the first.
I'm the oldest of the TrentBooths.
I'm one of eight at last count,but I'm the oldest.
So Trent Booth Prime if you goto, veritasleadershipgrouporg or

(50:38):
YouTube, linkedin, facebook,instagram.
would love to connect with youthere and if you're a listeners
here, by the way, we would loveto give them even a free 25
minute intake session.
Hey, it's coaching for me.
Could we be a fit?
We'd love to provide that forthem.
There's a way to sign up forthat on the website.
Excellent.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Well, and I got you be Trent.
I'm the only raw brush onLinkedIn.
Yes, yes, trent Booth.
Trent, you're not in anyrelationship.
I should have asked you thisearly on.
Any relationship to John WilkesBooth?

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I love the question, as defensive as it is, because
I'm Canadian and when you justasked is this great, great,
great great grandpa Did he?
Is he an assassin?
And the answer is no, okay,good, and ancestry DNA confirmed
that.
However, we live in the UnitedStates now and we adopted a
Beagle who was named Nixon.

(51:29):
When we got it, we thought thatwas cruel and unusual
punishment, so we did rename himLincoln.
His name is Lincoln JW Booth.
We're trying to bring the twosides together.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Well, I really well see that's what the world needs
now is mending offenses likethat.
So thank you, trent, for doingyour small part in the Beagle.
You're in our part, trent.
It's been an absolute pleasuretalking with you.
I hope we can get together someother time.
That would be wonderful tocontinue the conversation.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Me too.
Thank you, what a generous hose.
Really appreciate your time,raul.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Nice to meet you.
You too, take care of folks.
You've been listening to Frameof Reference.
I'm Raul Abreche and you arenot.
And we've been talking withTrent Booth the Trent Booth, the
first one Okay, he wasn't.
He's not like one of thosederivative Trent Booths, right,
you're.
You're the original, the realdeal.
So there are many variants,except no other.
Thanks for listening.
Folks.
Hope we can tune in next weekwhen we'll hopefully have

(52:19):
someone nearly as charming Idon't know that we'll have
someone as charming, but maybenearly as charming and wonderful
to talk with as Trent has been.
Take care.