June 21, 2024 • 39 mins
What if the very beliefs you hold dear are rooted in deception? Join us as we unravel the complex web of lies and manipulation that shape our society. We start with a light-hearted look at the weather in Wisconsin, contrasting it with the timeless, uplifting truths of the gospel. Our discussion navigates through the slippery landscapes of political promises and misleading advertisements, exposing the tactics used to control and divide us. We emphasize the importance of following the lifestyle of a person — Christ — rather than the dogman of a religion, and reveal how personal anecdotes and societal examples demonstrate the pervasive nature of deceit.
In our exploration, we dissect the tension between belief, truth, and deception, especially within religious and political realms. We delve into the nature of human kind and the heart's deceitful nature and the challenge of aligning personal beliefs with divine truth. Through current events and historical examples, including the contentious support of Donald Trump by evangelicals, we stress the need for love, understanding, and unity in our fractured world. Our conversation highlights how entrenched prejudices can be confronted and transformed through a genuine commitment to truth and scriptural guidance.
Finally, we underscore the paramount importance of truth, justice, and fairness in both personal and societal spheres. Reflecting on historical injustices and modern legal complexities, we encourage listeners to engage in self-reflection and recognize their role in societal divisions. With a nod to a thought-provoking Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode, we highlight the ongoing struggle between just and unjust laws. Raul and Juan Haldeman Sr. wrap up with a heartfelt sign-off, reminding everyone to prioritize love, stay curious, and tune in for more enriching discussions. Don't miss this episode that challenges you to seek truth in an age of widespread deception!
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
let's have it well, good morning everybody.
Good morning.
It is gray and rainy here inwisconsin, here in Wisconsin, as
my brother and I record thisshow, but inside we are bright
and we are full of the sunshineand light of the gospel, I guess
, ultimately, is what it comesdown to, right.
(00:35):
And that sounds like you know,feel the power of the television
.
And you know it's not.
It's.
Anyone that has listenedhopefully knows us, knows that
we're really trying to put feetand teeth to this thing called
Christianity.
And it's not about a religion,it's about a person.
So, and we're using that person, that guy that we recognize, as
(01:00):
a guiding point to combat someof the things in today's world.
Oh and, by the way, if youdidn't know, I'm Raul LaBrush
and you find Sir R AntoineHaldeman.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Sr.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Now we're trying to.
We got to get things going here.
We got to get right to thepunch this morning because you
know my brother, antoine, he'sgot places to go for people to
see things to do, right, solet's sit to it.
What are we talking about today, antoine?
What was that again?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We're talking about.
Deception is going to be theprimary focus and how it relates
to the country today, and then,of course, what the Bible says
about it.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That sounds like a deceivingly difficult subject,
or deceptively difficult, youknow.
That's interesting too, becausedeception is determined by
whether or not you accept thatthere is a truth or not.
(02:03):
Accept that there is a truth ornot, because you cannot be
deceived if someone is tellingthe truth, nor can you be
deceived if you know the truthand you can say that's not true.
So deception really counts onyou kind of not knowing either
the person or the facts, or youknow the situation or all kinds
(02:28):
of things.
And it also implies power beingused, because if I can deceive
you, if I can make you think I'msomething that I'm not, or that
I have something that I don'tknow, buy this Everglow product
and you will feel young again.
That's deception, right?
Or you know, vote for mebecause I'm going to make the
(02:48):
country wonderful.
That's you know.
Come on, really.
And yet we fall for it all thetime.
What is that all about?
We are deceived constantly.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And of course, you know, the deception is to create
the perception, you know.
And of course, as we lookthrough the lens of the country
right now, you know we see a lotof deception.
You know the withholding oftruths, you know.
And then, of course, thecontradicting of things.
You contradict them so hard andso that you minimize the
(03:20):
benefit of it.
Let's just use the Build BackBetter example.
Now, all this money went to allthese states, right, but you
know, then, of course, you haveone group of people saying, oh,
instead of saying it's a benefitto our state and to our
communities and to the buildingof bridges, they're spending too
much money.
They're spending too much money, they're spending too much
money.
And then, of course, you know,when we talk about various
(03:43):
programs, right, you know thepreamble of the constitution,
what it says uh, promote generalwelfare, right.
But when we promote generalwelfare, again, that's uh, it's
not reverse racism, it's uh, oh,you're, you're, you're.
You know it's like a.
A white lady will say, uh,that's racist, uh, that, uh, a
black group is like giving theseblack women, uh, money to build
(04:04):
businesses, and so it's likethat deception.
And of course, there's just somany forms of deception that I
believe, I strongly believe,that certain groups of people,
or the powers that be, have usedpsychiatry and psychology to
manipulate and deceive themasses.
I truly believe that.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, there's a principle here too of the
illusionist right.
The magicians make you think,you know they want.
How in the world did he or shedo that?
Well, that's magic, you know,and any magician who studies
magic for a while will tell youabout.
You know, there are certaintricks to the whole thing, if
you will.
(04:45):
There are ways of moving peopleinto ways of thinking that will
allow you to perform the magic,which is really a type of
deception, but it's one that wekind of enter into because it's
entertaining and it's fun.
It's like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve he made a rabbit appear
out of a hat, you know, kind ofthing, which is, I mean, that is
(05:08):
part of us, we like to beentertained.
But this whole deal of you knowwhat's the intent of the
deception.
I think of times where I'vetried to deceive people because
you know I'm capable of lying.
I you know.
Just ask we all are.
Ask my wife, goodness gracious,you know.
And most of the times when Ilie, it's because I don't want
(05:33):
to get in trouble and I thinkthat somehow lying is going to
avoid a hassle, or it's going toavoid, you know, a conversation
I don't want to have, orthere's all kinds of kind of
motivations in my brain.
I want to be liked, you know,because I know if I admit what I
did, really did, it's going tomean that, you know, my wife's
not going to like me orsomebody's not going to like me
because they're going to, youknow.
Oh my God, how could you dothat and why?
I told you not to do that.
(05:54):
So all those things.
Now let's take that on a globalscale and a national scale, you
know, and when it comes down topoliticians in particular, they
want to be liked, they want tobe voted for, they want to have
a constituency that will putthem in power.
So they lie, cheat, steal,whatever.
And the interesting thing to meabout it is that we choose.
(06:17):
We, the voters that are goingto the booths and casting our
ballots, we choose whose set oflies we're going to buy.
We choose the set of lies thatwe have the greatest affinity
for.
We choose the liar that wechoose to believe more.
And why Do people ever sit backand think, okay, I believe that
(06:40):
this person is the best for thecountry possible and then ask
ourselves, but why, why?
Why do I believe that?
I mean, why do you pick thefriends that you pick?
Right, I would never be friendswith me lies through his teeth,
you know, and that's people youhave, are up close and personal
relationship with.
But these people that are ontelevision and radio and come,
(07:01):
you know regularly and tell usI'm going to save the country by
being cool, we go along withthat like it's some, of course,
of course.
Well, I know he's right, I knowhe is.
How do you know?
How do you know it's haves andhave nots?
You know it's all about.
These are people that I tellfriends all this time.
(07:22):
343 million people thereaboutsin America and the candidates
that we're going to put outthere for this election are the
best we can do.
They're the best.
We're willing to accept thoseoptions.
So either people are not goingto vote or they're going to say,
well, no, I'm right, mycandidate is the best, you're
(07:42):
wrong and you're stupid if youdon't vote for him.
Really.
That's how we want to decidethe course of our country, huh.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And, of course, these politicians that you speak of.
They're using so many variousantics and tactics and you know
these various course.
It's like when we talk aboutthe politician now, you know, of
course there's the illusionthat they're the strong man is
fit to lead the country.
(08:10):
But the strong man is actuallynot a strong man.
He just had people that wereable to take the fall for him.
But you know there's so manydifferent things that shape
narratives.
You know we talk about theshaping of a narrative.
You know people use variousdissimilations.
People use variousdissimilations Again, we're
talking about the omittance oftruth, or just pounding the
table so hard.
You say the same thing and yousay it louder and louder, to the
(08:32):
point where a person says, oh,and they just keep repeating it,
they just keep repeating it.
And then, of course, we'reseeing this now, like I'll use
January 6th as an example.
You know we talk aboutdeception.
You know when, even when youhear certain politicians talk
(08:56):
about it now, they talk about itas if it were present tense.
They use a different verb tense.
They don't say oh, they weredoing this, they say they are.
Or they don't say oh, they were, uh, doing this.
They say they are or they, theydon't say, oh, they were just
tourists.
They are tourists, making it noagain, that verb switch to make
you say, oh, they are just now,they are just prisoners of war.
(09:17):
You know what I mean.
And so it's just all theselittle bitty little tactics that
are being used in this.
These small placement of wordsare just shifting entire
sentences, in which are shiftingentire narratives, and I just
wish people would researchthings for themselves.
You know, like the bible tellsus, is to a king's honor to
(09:39):
search out a matter, meaningthat we have to research things
for ourselves.
We can no longer believe whatRoy and Alice said about a
situation we talked about this acouple of weeks ago where we
were saying for as much as it'sup to us, we need to learn the
basic functions of government,what the judicial branch, the
(09:59):
legislative branch, theexecutive branch and all the
federal offices thereofof learn,their functionality and what
they do.
So when someone tells yousomething, you can say no, that
doesn't match up with what Iknow.
And again, people are.
It's easy to hate, it's hard tolove.
Love requires work.
That means, oh, I got to go andresearch something, I got to go
(10:21):
learn about a person, I got togo learn about a thing, and it's
easier to hate because you canjust say, oh, I got to go and
research something, I got to golearn about a person, I got to
go learn about a thing, and it'seasier to hate because you can
just say, oh, I believe whatthey said, and that's that.
And that's where, again, it's.
This deception has a spirit ofdeception, a spirit of division
has fallen on this country.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The father has fallen upon the father of lies.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Right so well, the prince, the prince of the power
of the air, right and uh.
But you know the the what thebible says.
We don't wrestle against fleshand blood.
You know, and and and we, asmen and women of god, we have to
really understand my, ourpastor.
His name is pastor john f h.
He says everything is spiritual.
(11:04):
It is all spiritual because ifwe look at the behaviors of the
country and we look at what theBible says about it, we see it
coming to light.
And that's where it's like theBible says let God be true and
every man a liar.
Yeah, because every man is aliar, because his truth is going
(11:26):
to be based on how he feels.
So when we, instead of us, whenwe have to get to a point where
we're living by biblicalprinciple instead of personal
preference, and, of course, whenwe're all living by personal
preference, yes, our truths aregoing to be different and thus
creating chaos and dysfunctionand confusion.
And of course, we know thatconfusion is not of God.
So we people just have to take astep back and start to learn
(11:50):
and research things forthemselves.
And and again, you know it'seasy to repeat this thing, but
it's hard to research the thing,it's easy to love.
I mean, it's easy to hate, butit's hard to love because love
requires work.
And for you, for this group ofpeople to love me more, they got
to learn more about me.
(12:11):
For me to love another groupmore, I got to learn about them.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right, yeah, what is it?
Lincoln said right, I do notlike this man.
I must get to know him better.
You know, as a maxim for how tolive your life.
You know, you mentioned earlieron about psychology and
psychiatry being utilized and Ithink one of the I keep coming
back to this it's a study thatgosh, I got to look up the exact
(12:38):
name of it, but back in the 50sthere was a psychological study
on, like last day's profits andwhat makes people essentially
continue to follow these lastday profits even after they've
been proven to be wrong.
Right?
So you know the world's goingto come to an end on January
15th 1957.
And you know we've got toprepare, prepare, prepare and
(12:58):
they prepare.
And then january 15 1957 comesalong, and they prepare, the
prepare, and it's 1201, january16, 1957, and nothing has
happened.
So you would think people gowell, what is?
I've been following here, butno, what ends up happening is
that that leader will usuallyend up doing something like the
lord in his great mercy hasdecided to give us another
(13:20):
chance to pry to, to get morepeople to follow him and to
change.
Blah, blah, blah.
The new date now is and thatcan happen.
You know two, three, four, fivetimes with a group of people.
I mean, there are still peoplethat think that David Koresh was
in fact the second coming ofChrist, right, still still think
that, right?
So how do you establish areality that says I'm going to
(13:46):
hang on to this thing, no matterwhat else?
The world, my friends, thefacts show, and it has to do
with the human heart, the heart.
Jeremiah says the heart isdeceitful above all things.
Who can know it?
And we have to realize that atour heart, at our core as human
beings, is deceit and we alignourselves with it.
(14:07):
And then, once we stick tosomething within it, that we
align and say this is my truthinstead of the truth.
You know the word of God.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
What does the Bible say about it?
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
right, you know, and you say to yourself well, this
is my truth.
Well, once you set that thingas something other than the word
, you're going to continue tofind ways to continue to believe
that, because it begins todefine you.
And we can't.
We have a really hard time,like you say, bro, we have a
really hard time saying you knowall those things that I thought
about black people, blue blackpeople, you know, you're just.
(14:44):
I got to give those up nowbecause you're really not.
You know welfare Queens orwhatever the stupid thing is of
the day, right, you're.
You're people that arestruggling to make a living.
You're people that arestruggling to make sense of life
in an unfair world.
Those kinds of transitions,those kinds of revelations.
Honestly, yeah, there's a lovecomponent because, you know,
(15:07):
beloved, if we love everyone,everyone that loves is born of
God and knows God.
So, if we can choose to love,if we can choose this is more
important to me that we buildbridges, that I understand that
I really get to the core ofwhat's real in this and what is
not.
Let's see what the Bible says.
That's a whole better processthan than any other that is
(15:30):
being presented by anypolitician right now, especially
the ones that want to say thatthey're biblical people and they
hold a Bible up to show thatthey're biblical people, and
it's upside down.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Shouldn't that be a cue?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Wouldn't you want to look and go?
He's going to hold a Bible upto.
I mean, as a Christian I wouldbe.
So you know like what the mywife would be all over you're
holding it upside down.
Now that's not super critical.
It's like I should know thatfundamentally.
I should know that that isn'tholding a Bible upside down and
you don't hold the Bible thatway when you're presenting it to
(16:06):
other people, right.
But in the deceptive processit's like oh, he was just
grabbing it really quickly.
Come on, he's got 16preparation people with him.
There's like 14 people rightaround him that could say Mr
President, you have the bibleupside down, you need to turn it
around.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh, yeah, yeah, thank you but no one dared to tell
him that, or they thought it wasimportant enough.
I don't know so.
And again, uh it, it all framesthe narrative right through
those dissimulations, uh, thoseequivocations, all those
different things, those anticsand semantics, right, all those
different things create thenarrative that he is a man of
God, like you say.
Even he held the Bible upsidedown.
I don't know if he ever evenopened one.
(16:45):
He does not exhibit any fruitof the spirit and that's why I
cannot phantom, why I mean,we're talking major evangelists,
people that have millions ofpeople watching them on weekly
television, are saying thatDonald Trump is this, that and
the other, and I just I don'tget it.
And so that's why I know whenthe Bible says in that day, many
(17:06):
will be deceived.
You know we see the only bookwith prophecy fulfilled coming
to light.
And but again, when we'retalking about deception, again
it's those little things thatcreate narratives.
It's all about the framing ofnarratives.
And people use all theseeuphemisms and all these
(17:26):
answering questions, wit,questions, type of things they
allude from the action, theyagain that verb tense we were
talking about, all thosedifferent things you know go.
It's like a big, it's circlesthings you know, goal is like a
big it's circles.
Just picture a bunch of littlecircles going around in a big
circle and and that's it.
That's the game we're in,that's the swirl, we're in the
(17:47):
confusion, the chaos and andjust all those things.
And we know that those thingsare not from god, you know, and,
of course, like the eluding ofactions, you know just all these
different things.
Yeah, like this gentleman.
Of course, he, just somebody,just got felt guilty on all 34
counts of this, on that crime,34 counts, right, 34 counts.
(18:12):
But yet, you know, again, thenarrative is well, this is
persecution.
I'm being persecuted for yoursakes, and it's like no, you try
to conceal the matter.
And now the bigger matter isthat that little thing that you
psychology, I believe that isbeing used.
I believe that there's peoplesitting in a room saying how can
(18:42):
we deceive these people?
And they are carefully placingwords and sentences to make
people feel that, oh, it's usagainst them.
Like you know, trump will sayit's us against them.
It ain't no us.
He grew up in New York.
You know you're talking tosomeone in Alabama.
You know it's the same thingNixon did, we, we, we, and it's
(19:04):
like there is no, we, but theyagain.
People don't realize thatthey're voting against their own
best interests.
The same people that aretelling you hey, I'm for you.
They're going to cut yourgrandmothers and your mothers
and even your social security.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And let's face it, you know, joe Biden is no saint
right.
It's not like we're saying, youknow, oh, you got to vote for
Biden because he's so muchbetter than Trump.
I had a discussion with theother day someone.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I said you know, it really is the lesser of two
evils when it comes right downto it, louisiana or Louisiana,
either way, it's like the onesin South Carolina.
They upheld them.
And of course, now there is aobvious evidence of partisan.
(20:05):
You know, partisan and.
And nothing can be done aboutit.
You know, and.
But again, so many people havebeen manipulated, duped, tricked
into believing that thesebehaviors are okay.
And it's just over these yearsthat all these lies that have
been told we have slowly allowedourselves to be conditioned to.
(20:27):
Just, even though we know it'sa lie, we just we tend to laugh
it off.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Or we find a way to continue to construct a way that
that must be a lie.
I mean, the 34 felony countsright, depending on which level
of deception you're going intoor which type of deception you
choose to adopt and maintain.
You're either seeing that asevidence of a corrupt judicial
system, or you're seeing it asevidence of a witch hunt that's
(20:56):
being successfully manipulated.
Or you're seeing it as evidenceof a judge and a jury that were
obviously partisan and arelooking to just corrupt and
convict an innocent man.
And you have another side thatare seeing.
Finally, the American justicesystem is working.
Finally, the richest and themost powerful people in the
(21:19):
world are being held accountableto the same laws that everybody
else would have been held andis held accountable to If he had
been anybody else, if he hadbeen anybody else in any of the
cases so far.
You have to be able to talk to alawyer.
For God's sakes the evidencethat they wouldn't have brought
these trials in the first placeif they didn't have evidence
that they could prove something.
(21:40):
It's just not worth the time.
So they were taking a hugechance just doing this in the
first place.
So talk to a lawyer, talk tosomebody who's really a lawyer.
I'm blessed to have multiplefriends and family members that
are lawyers and they start goingthrough the legal situations
going on here.
It is absolutely terrifyingbecause if we can dismantle our
law which is really one of thegreat cathedrals of our, our
(22:03):
country, because that's whereyou get to prove innocent until
proven guilty- you know, you seethe demonization of, uh, the
legal system or the judicialsystem.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Because, again, let's look at the projectionism uh of
the fact, because, like a priorto uh now remember, uh, someone
wanted to use the attorneygeneral to go after other people
and then he even tried toappoint various people in the
DOJ offices to go after otherpeople.
He even appointed thispostmaster general to do all
(22:34):
these different things.
And now what is happening?
They project, oh well, the dojis weaponized because they
raided my house, or is beingweaponized.
All these things are being uhformed against me and it's like
no, but you tried to do it inthe first place.
And that's where theprojectionism and the answering
questions with questions and thewhat about?
(22:55):
Isms.
I just wish people would justslow down and listen and start
to do research for themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Think about magic too I'm sorry to interrupt I think
about how, when you're amagician, what you have to
recognize is that the thing thatthey're trying to get you to
look at is not where the magicis happening.
So, if I'm doing somethingreally cool up here, what's
really happening is somewhereaway from where I'm trying to
pull your focus to, and that'sexactly what we're trying to do,
(23:26):
right, we're trying to get youto think about.
Oh, you know the words, youknow I love your phrase there
the antics of semantics.
You know, because it is, it'sthe antics of sitting around the
spin that we can have on things, Because, you know, I'm just
amazed at the number of thingsimmediately after the conviction
happened.
It's just, you know, this isjust absolute terrorism.
(23:49):
You know of our country that aleader, a strong leader, is such
as being, you know, persecutedthis way, and you're like I
don't get it.
Where did this all happen?
That we decided that thejudicial system is only just, if
it does what I think it shoulddo the laws?
are supposed to be pretty clear,and if there's anything that we
(24:11):
have been brought to believeover time is that if you have
enough money, you can get out ofthings.
If you have enough money andpower, you can get out of things
.
Well, here's an opportunitywhere somebody had enough money
and enough power to get out ofjust about anything and he
really really tried and hedidn't get out of it.
We ought to be going, hey, itworked, you know, the laws got
(24:33):
upheld.
But instead now we're lookingto say, well, no, those laws
aren't just and that reallywasn't true, it really didn't
happen that way.
He's being held accountable tosomething that didn't happen.
Okay, so, and think about that.
Let's just think for just asecond America.
Okay, think about the fact thatthe two largest battles that
have been going on since MrTrump was in office, one was to
(24:55):
attack the media, which sorrymedia.
It did a lot to deserve that.
Okay.
But fake news right.
If anyone was doing fake news,it was people at the Fox News
Network who, back in the 80s, incable television, realized that
there's money to be made here.
If we just spin these storiesand keep spinning these certain
stories, there's money to bemade.
(25:17):
And then, of course, everybodyelse was saying the same thing,
because they've got sponsorshipsthey have to sell and anchor
salaries they have to pay.
Okay, so there's good reason tocall it fake news.
But then we went even furtherand started to say that anything
that I don't like obviously isfake news.
So now we've got alternativefacts.
(25:37):
I wish people would just spendsome time thinking about what
the hell is the phrasealternative facts, because when
I was a kid back in the 60s, Icould spend that to my mom and
dad.
Well, mom, I really didn't takethat cookie that was in the jar
.
There was this cookie monsterthat came and took it and
there's no such thing as acookie monster.
Well, according to you, mom,there is no cookie monster, but
(25:59):
to me, I saw the cookie monsterand he took that cookie.
So that's an alternative fact,right?
My alternative fact is a cookiemonster came, there was, in
fact, really, if you werewatching and there was a camera,
you would know that there wasno cookie monster, except
perhaps moi, because I did infact take that cookie.
(26:20):
But here we are right.
Here we are accepting that onthis grandiose scale, we can
allow something as ludicrous asan alternative fact to exist and
at the core of that is what istruth, and that's a
philosophical argument that youreally do start to have to get
(26:40):
into.
What is truth?
How do we define truth?
How do we know truth from lie?
And that's where Antoine and Iwould come back to.
Well, you got to start with theBible, because there's truth
there that has been accepted forthousands and thousands of
years, prophetic truth that it'sreally.
You know, let's take away allthe well, all these cattle
(27:00):
sacrifices and blah, blah, blahthat you know are difficult to
deal with.
I get it.
It's not like every single wordhas to be held on to.
Oh, we got to do it.
We got to stone people outsidethe gates.
Still, no, that's not whatwe're talking about.
We're talking about corerealities of the human heart, of
the human condition, becausethat's really what we're talking
about.
Jesus.
(27:25):
We're talking about somebodythat came to heal.
The heart turns our hearts ofstone into hearts of flesh.
That's what ends up happening,and that flesh is the thing that
is, a living flesh that canlook at the world around and say
that doesn't seem right, lord,what am I not seeing here?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And again, it's like you know, when you were saying,
like the alternative facts, youknow, we really have to again,
people have to search outmatters for themselves.
You know, of course, when wetalk about these alternative
facts, no, they are justbasically like these vague
statements or basically thesevague expressions that will
allow the deceit or, if you will, or the person, person, the
(27:59):
deceptive person, to come backand change his story later.
You know, and we have to reallybe like what you use, the
example of, uh, the doomsdayperson.
Oh well, god gave us grace, soit's gonna.
The date has been extended, youknow, and people have to really
again have to start to look andresearch things for themselves.
And again you also mentioned wewere talking about the law
(28:21):
people demonize the law.
The lawmakers are actuallydemonizing the law right now.
And so, again, to a simpleperson or a person that has not
or is not willing to do theresearch for themselves, will
just take that and run with it.
And again, that proper, thatpropagandizing of the mind, you
(28:45):
know, of course we see itrepeating a matter, repeating a
matter, repeating a matter, it'swe're in a space where, like
you said, you know, we have toget to a space of where we are
seeking one truth.
You know the Bible tells us lionlips are an abomination to the
Lord, but he who acts faithfullyare his delight.
(29:07):
You know, and of course we know, that unbalanced skills are an
abomination to the Lord.
Scales are an abomination tothe Lord.
When a person is trying tomanipulate votes and gerrymander
and all these different kind ofthings, is that not balancing
or trying to unbalance thescales?
It is happening in plain sight.
(29:30):
People will begin to open theirword or seek out worthy
spiritual counsel that is notone-sided to a matter.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
And again, that's all we can pray for at this point.
Just people turn to God.
Yeah, and truth.
Truth is unifying.
You know, truth and love areunifying principles, they're
unifying concepts, they areunifying ideals and, you know,
righteousness is unifying,justice is unifying.
But if we can't admit, if wecan't, you know, I mean, part of
(30:09):
the problem I have with law is,I'm a Star Trek fan and I just
watched an episode of Star Trek,strange New Worlds, and it was
fascinating because it wasactually about justice and
discrimination.
And one of the characters,who's a, you know, a genetically
modified individual, iscourt-martialed, put on trial
for having lied about it,because in in that society
(30:29):
they're not accepted.
It's considered, you know, ahorrible crime to have
genetically genetic modificationdone.
But they used that then as awhole foundation for discussing
the idea of laws that are justand laws that are unjust.
And even in the defenseattorney's arguments she started
talking about how there are allseries of laws.
(30:52):
We used to think that it wasokay to discriminate against
somebody for the color of theirskin and we've used, you know,
the religion that they practiceas a reason to discriminate them
and to keep them out of thingsand to punish them.
You know that's the history ofhuman civilization.
But the reality is that at somepoint we come to realize that
that is an unfair injustice andwe change the laws so that they
(31:18):
accommodate the fact that we nowrecognize this is unjust and
we're not going to allow itanymore.
We're going to make that thisillegal.
It's not like the law isperfect and lawyers will tell
you that, but what the law is isactionable.
So if we can choose to justbelieve, okay, is this
interpretation of the lawconvenient or is it just?
(31:40):
And that's where thoseprecedences are set Right,
Exactly right, right.
And that's where our SupremeCourt has got some real fun ones
up ahead of them.
Because if you decide that apresident is immune from
prosecution for things they didwhile they were in the office
and you know, take a step backand think for a second.
(32:02):
If a president does things thatare so bad that you have to
hope and fight and pray that youcan get immunity so that you
don't get in trouble for doingthose things, then I got to ask
why are we even allowing aperson to have that kind of
power that they could do thosekinds of things and not have to
be afraid of immunity.
No, this is the first time thatsomebody has done things bad
(32:24):
enough, that are serious enough,that have serious enough
potential consequences thattheir only hope is to be immune.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And we've got, you know we got to go back to the
early parts of this thing.
Remember how many uh itprobably over a hundred
lawmakers, uh, between the uhhouse and the Senate, were all
lining up for pardons becausethey knew what they were doing
was wrong, yeah, yeah.
And then you know what does theBible say?
(32:53):
Uh, theness and justice is thefoundation of his throne.
That means the equality, theequity, the fairness, the
justice.
You know those are thefoundations of his throne.
You know the, you know takingcare of the fatherless and the
widow foundations of his throne,making sure that there's equity
and equality, foundation of histhrone.
And of course, now, justice.
(33:14):
Now is a well, well, you getwhat you deserve.
Or well, justice.
People have changed the wordjustice.
It has, uh, multiple meaningsnow.
Yeah, well, if you don't work,you don't eat.
And, of course, if you don't dothis, you don't do, you don't
get that.
And that's just justice.
That's just the way it is.
And it's like, again, thepreamble, what it says, uh,
provide for the common defense.
(33:35):
No republicans and democratscan agree on hey, let's spend
money on defense, but promotinggeneral welfare.
That means making the scalesbalanced because, again, we we
had this conversation over andover again about how the scales
became unbalanced in the firstplace.
Not as that, as you try tofight to balance the scales, the
(33:57):
fight to keep them unbalancedjust becomes greater and greater
.
The enemy is getting bolder andbolder, the lies are getting
bigger and bigger and louder andlouder, and it's just again.
People are now using, peopleare using forms of intimidation,
you know, and all thesedifferent things, to maintain
(34:18):
the lie.
Right, rather than uh, ratherthan just say you know what I
was wrong, right, you're doubledown on the lie, and so it again
.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's why we pray that's just, and a challenge to
anyone that's listening, andchallenge anyone that you want
to get to listen.
In this whole field ofdeception and I alluded to it
with magicians right, they'redeceiving us.
They'll tell you well, it's atrick, it's magic, you know,
which is, yeah, I fooled you,right.
But what's important in thatwhole situation, too, is we I,
(34:52):
you, everybody we allowourselves to be deceived.
We allow it.
That's something that you can'tdeceive someone if they don't
allow it.
It's really difficult todeceive a skeptic, because a
skeptic is very unwilling tobelieve anything without serious
(35:14):
, regimented examination andtheir own experience, which is
very much.
That can't possibly be.
It's just.
How could that possibly?
How could black people possiblybe right?
How could white people possiblybe?
The things that entrench us andmake it so easy for us to be
divided are things we'reallowing.
(35:37):
So ask yourself, ask God inprayer, god, what am I allowing
myself to be deceived in?
How am I looking at the worldand allowing things that I've
been taught or things that I'vebeen told that I, you know, have
never challenged?
How am I allowing them to colormy interactions with people on
(36:00):
the basis of their skin, on thebasis of their religion, on the
basis of their you know culturalbackground, on the basis of
their political affiliation?
Really, because isn't it muchmore interesting to get to know
people that are very differentfrom you?
I find it fascinating thatanyone that you talk to and you
(36:21):
start to ask questions about hey, how did you get into that?
Why do you enjoy doing it?
Why do you not enjoy doing it?
What sorts of things have youdone with that?
What kind of experiences haveyou had there?
Have you had there?
I mean, those questions ofgetting to know people are so
much more fundamentallyimportant to human beings and us
finding a way forward than itwill ever be by saying, well,
(36:43):
you don't know this and youdon't believe this, and if you
don't get this through yourstupid head, we're never going
to get anywhere.
That is not how we've evergotten anywhere, except when
there are warlords involved.
That's usually the.
Those are the people that arereally successful with those
kinds of tactics.
So is that who we want to be?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, and going back to the earlier part of our
conversation, again, peoplehaving to research things for
themselves, you know, of course,the Bible tells us simply do
not believe every spirit, buttest the spirits to see whether
they are from God.
For many false prophets havegone out into the world, so we
have to research the matteragain.
Proverbs 25, I believe, 25 andthree.
(37:25):
It is to a King's honor tosearch out a matter, to research
a matter, and yes, that's goingto require work, it's going to,
it's going to hurt, it's goingto, it's going to know.
When the mirror is put to ourown face, sometimes we ain't
going to like what we see, butit has to happen in order for us
to get rid of this spirit ofbitterness and this spirit of
wrath and anger and clamor andslander and division and just
(37:48):
this chaos and dysfunction.
We got to learn how to be kindto one another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, becausethat's what Jesus came to do for
us we got to learn how to bekind to one another,
tenderhearted, forgiving oneanother, because that's what
Jesus came to do for us.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You're the man and you just talked about the man.
You're the man and you justtalked about the man and you got
to go.
I'm looking at my clock going.
I got to get him out of here.
He's got to go.
He's got places to go.
He's a full seat.
But, bro, it is always such anhonor and such a joy to pull
back the cover on some of thisstuff together.
I hope it still is that for you.
God, please let it be that forhim as well.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Oh, brother and I tell you off camera all the time
, man, how grateful I am to haveyou and because I consider you
a friend.
Man, uh, you know, you and I wecould can have some bare
knuckle, bloody knuckleconversations about what is and
it's always good to have that.
Just say, as a black man, havethat white friend.
I can ask you a question thatit doesn't sound silly.
It's like hey, this has been aperception or a misconception
(38:47):
that I've had.
Can you help me figure this out?
And then that teaches me hey,I've had the wrong thought
process, or whatever the casemay be.
And so that's where this comesin, brother.
So I greatly appreciate you,man.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thank you, bro.
So, ladies and gentlemen, anddogs I hope some dogs are
listening.
I love dogs.
So you've been listening toFrame of Reference coming
together.
My name is Raul, that's Raul,like Raul La Bresh, like fresh.
And you are sir.
That's Juan Haldeman Sr.
And we are so happy that youtuned in and listened to this
today.
We hope you'll listen againnext week, following week.
(39:23):
We're not sure.
We kind of do this like thewind.
So, but everybody, take careand go do some thinking okay and
, more importantly, do someloving.
There it is All right, there itis.
Take care, man, see you.
let's have it well, good morning everybody.
Good morning.
It is gray and rainy here inwisconsin, here in Wisconsin, as
my brother and I record thisshow, but inside we are bright
and we are full of the sunshineand light of the gospel, I guess
, ultimately, is what it comesdown to, right.
(00:35):
And that sounds like you know,feel the power of the television
.
And you know it's not.
It's.
Anyone that has listenedhopefully knows us, knows that
we're really trying to put feetand teeth to this thing called
Christianity.
And it's not about a religion,it's about a person.
So, and we're using that person, that guy that we recognize, as
(01:00):
a guiding point to combat someof the things in today's world.
Oh and, by the way, if youdidn't know, I'm Raul LaBrush
and you find Sir R AntoineHaldeman.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Sr.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Now we're trying to.
We got to get things going here.
We got to get right to thepunch this morning because you
know my brother, antoine, he'sgot places to go for people to
see things to do, right, solet's sit to it.
What are we talking about today, antoine?
What was that again?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We're talking about.
Deception is going to be theprimary focus and how it relates
to the country today, and then,of course, what the Bible says
about it.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That sounds like a deceivingly difficult subject,
or deceptively difficult, youknow.
That's interesting too, becausedeception is determined by
whether or not you accept thatthere is a truth or not.
(02:03):
Accept that there is a truth ornot, because you cannot be
deceived if someone is tellingthe truth, nor can you be
deceived if you know the truthand you can say that's not true.
So deception really counts onyou kind of not knowing either
the person or the facts, or youknow the situation or all kinds
(02:28):
of things.
And it also implies power beingused, because if I can deceive
you, if I can make you think I'msomething that I'm not, or that
I have something that I don'tknow, buy this Everglow product
and you will feel young again.
That's deception, right?
Or you know, vote for mebecause I'm going to make the
(02:48):
country wonderful.
That's you know.
Come on, really.
And yet we fall for it all thetime.
What is that all about?
We are deceived constantly.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And of course, you know, the deception is to create
the perception, you know.
And of course, as we lookthrough the lens of the country
right now, you know we see a lotof deception.
You know the withholding oftruths, you know.
And then, of course, thecontradicting of things.
You contradict them so hard andso that you minimize the
(03:20):
benefit of it.
Let's just use the Build BackBetter example.
Now, all this money went to allthese states, right, but you
know, then, of course, you haveone group of people saying, oh,
instead of saying it's a benefitto our state and to our
communities and to the buildingof bridges, they're spending too
much money.
They're spending too much money, they're spending too much
money.
And then, of course, you know,when we talk about various
(03:43):
programs, right, you know thepreamble of the constitution,
what it says uh, promote generalwelfare, right.
But when we promote generalwelfare, again, that's uh, it's
not reverse racism, it's uh, oh,you're, you're, you're.
You know it's like a.
A white lady will say, uh,that's racist, uh, that, uh, a
black group is like giving theseblack women, uh, money to build
(04:04):
businesses, and so it's likethat deception.
And of course, there's just somany forms of deception that I
believe, I strongly believe,that certain groups of people,
or the powers that be, have usedpsychiatry and psychology to
manipulate and deceive themasses.
I truly believe that.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, there's a principle here too of the
illusionist right.
The magicians make you think,you know they want.
How in the world did he or shedo that?
Well, that's magic, you know,and any magician who studies
magic for a while will tell youabout.
You know, there are certaintricks to the whole thing, if
you will.
(04:45):
There are ways of moving peopleinto ways of thinking that will
allow you to perform the magic,which is really a type of
deception, but it's one that wekind of enter into because it's
entertaining and it's fun.
It's like, oh my gosh, I can'tbelieve he made a rabbit appear
out of a hat, you know, kind ofthing, which is, I mean, that is
(05:08):
part of us, we like to beentertained.
But this whole deal of you knowwhat's the intent of the
deception.
I think of times where I'vetried to deceive people because
you know I'm capable of lying.
I you know.
Just ask we all are.
Ask my wife, goodness gracious,you know.
And most of the times when Ilie, it's because I don't want
(05:33):
to get in trouble and I thinkthat somehow lying is going to
avoid a hassle, or it's going toavoid, you know, a conversation
I don't want to have, orthere's all kinds of kind of
motivations in my brain.
I want to be liked, you know,because I know if I admit what I
did, really did, it's going tomean that, you know, my wife's
not going to like me orsomebody's not going to like me
because they're going to, youknow.
Oh my God, how could you dothat and why?
I told you not to do that.
(05:54):
So all those things.
Now let's take that on a globalscale and a national scale, you
know, and when it comes down topoliticians in particular, they
want to be liked, they want tobe voted for, they want to have
a constituency that will putthem in power.
So they lie, cheat, steal,whatever.
And the interesting thing to meabout it is that we choose.
(06:17):
We, the voters that are goingto the booths and casting our
ballots, we choose whose set oflies we're going to buy.
We choose the set of lies thatwe have the greatest affinity
for.
We choose the liar that wechoose to believe more.
And why Do people ever sit backand think, okay, I believe that
(06:40):
this person is the best for thecountry possible and then ask
ourselves, but why, why?
Why do I believe that?
I mean, why do you pick thefriends that you pick?
Right, I would never be friendswith me lies through his teeth,
you know, and that's people youhave, are up close and personal
relationship with.
But these people that are ontelevision and radio and come,
(07:01):
you know regularly and tell usI'm going to save the country by
being cool, we go along withthat like it's some, of course,
of course.
Well, I know he's right, I knowhe is.
How do you know?
How do you know it's haves andhave nots?
You know it's all about.
These are people that I tellfriends all this time.
(07:22):
343 million people thereaboutsin America and the candidates
that we're going to put outthere for this election are the
best we can do.
They're the best.
We're willing to accept thoseoptions.
So either people are not goingto vote or they're going to say,
well, no, I'm right, mycandidate is the best, you're
(07:42):
wrong and you're stupid if youdon't vote for him.
Really.
That's how we want to decidethe course of our country, huh.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And, of course, these politicians that you speak of.
They're using so many variousantics and tactics and you know
these various course.
It's like when we talk aboutthe politician now, you know, of
course there's the illusionthat they're the strong man is
fit to lead the country.
(08:10):
But the strong man is actuallynot a strong man.
He just had people that wereable to take the fall for him.
But you know there's so manydifferent things that shape
narratives.
You know we talk about theshaping of a narrative.
You know people use variousdissimilations.
People use variousdissimilations Again, we're
talking about the omittance oftruth, or just pounding the
table so hard.
You say the same thing and yousay it louder and louder, to the
(08:32):
point where a person says, oh,and they just keep repeating it,
they just keep repeating it.
And then, of course, we'reseeing this now, like I'll use
January 6th as an example.
You know we talk aboutdeception.
You know when, even when youhear certain politicians talk
(08:56):
about it now, they talk about itas if it were present tense.
They use a different verb tense.
They don't say oh, they weredoing this, they say they are.
Or they don't say oh, they were, uh, doing this.
They say they are or they, theydon't say, oh, they were just
tourists.
They are tourists, making it noagain, that verb switch to make
you say, oh, they are just now,they are just prisoners of war.
(09:17):
You know what I mean.
And so it's just all theselittle bitty little tactics that
are being used in this.
These small placement of wordsare just shifting entire
sentences, in which are shiftingentire narratives, and I just
wish people would researchthings for themselves.
You know, like the bible tellsus, is to a king's honor to
(09:39):
search out a matter, meaningthat we have to research things
for ourselves.
We can no longer believe whatRoy and Alice said about a
situation we talked about this acouple of weeks ago where we
were saying for as much as it'sup to us, we need to learn the
basic functions of government,what the judicial branch, the
(09:59):
legislative branch, theexecutive branch and all the
federal offices thereofof learn,their functionality and what
they do.
So when someone tells yousomething, you can say no, that
doesn't match up with what Iknow.
And again, people are.
It's easy to hate, it's hard tolove.
Love requires work.
That means, oh, I got to go andresearch something, I got to go
(10:21):
learn about a person, I got togo learn about a thing, and it's
easier to hate because you canjust say, oh, I got to go and
research something, I got to golearn about a person, I got to
go learn about a thing, and it'seasier to hate because you can
just say, oh, I believe whatthey said, and that's that.
And that's where, again, it's.
This deception has a spirit ofdeception, a spirit of division
has fallen on this country.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
The father has fallen upon the father of lies.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Right so well, the prince, the prince of the power
of the air, right and uh.
But you know the the what thebible says.
We don't wrestle against fleshand blood.
You know, and and and we, asmen and women of god, we have to
really understand my, ourpastor.
His name is pastor john f h.
He says everything is spiritual.
(11:04):
It is all spiritual because ifwe look at the behaviors of the
country and we look at what theBible says about it, we see it
coming to light.
And that's where it's like theBible says let God be true and
every man a liar.
Yeah, because every man is aliar, because his truth is going
(11:26):
to be based on how he feels.
So when we, instead of us, whenwe have to get to a point where
we're living by biblicalprinciple instead of personal
preference, and, of course, whenwe're all living by personal
preference, yes, our truths aregoing to be different and thus
creating chaos and dysfunctionand confusion.
And of course, we know thatconfusion is not of God.
So we people just have to take astep back and start to learn
(11:50):
and research things forthemselves.
And and again, you know it'seasy to repeat this thing, but
it's hard to research the thing,it's easy to love.
I mean, it's easy to hate, butit's hard to love because love
requires work.
And for you, for this group ofpeople to love me more, they got
to learn more about me.
(12:11):
For me to love another groupmore, I got to learn about them.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Right, yeah, what is it?
Lincoln said right, I do notlike this man.
I must get to know him better.
You know, as a maxim for how tolive your life.
You know, you mentioned earlieron about psychology and
psychiatry being utilized and Ithink one of the I keep coming
back to this it's a study thatgosh, I got to look up the exact
(12:38):
name of it, but back in the 50sthere was a psychological study
on, like last day's profits andwhat makes people essentially
continue to follow these lastday profits even after they've
been proven to be wrong.
Right?
So you know the world's goingto come to an end on January
15th 1957.
And you know we've got toprepare, prepare, prepare and
(12:58):
they prepare.
And then january 15 1957 comesalong, and they prepare, the
prepare, and it's 1201, january16, 1957, and nothing has
happened.
So you would think people gowell, what is?
I've been following here, butno, what ends up happening is
that that leader will usuallyend up doing something like the
lord in his great mercy hasdecided to give us another
(13:20):
chance to pry to, to get morepeople to follow him and to
change.
Blah, blah, blah.
The new date now is and thatcan happen.
You know two, three, four, fivetimes with a group of people.
I mean, there are still peoplethat think that David Koresh was
in fact the second coming ofChrist, right, still still think
that, right?
So how do you establish areality that says I'm going to
(13:46):
hang on to this thing, no matterwhat else?
The world, my friends, thefacts show, and it has to do
with the human heart, the heart.
Jeremiah says the heart isdeceitful above all things.
Who can know it?
And we have to realize that atour heart, at our core as human
beings, is deceit and we alignourselves with it.
(14:07):
And then, once we stick tosomething within it, that we
align and say this is my truthinstead of the truth.
You know the word of God.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
What does the Bible say about it?
Right?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
right, you know, and you say to yourself well, this
is my truth.
Well, once you set that thingas something other than the word
, you're going to continue tofind ways to continue to believe
that, because it begins todefine you.
And we can't.
We have a really hard time,like you say, bro, we have a
really hard time saying you knowall those things that I thought
about black people, blue blackpeople, you know, you're just.
(14:44):
I got to give those up nowbecause you're really not.
You know welfare Queens orwhatever the stupid thing is of
the day, right, you're.
You're people that arestruggling to make a living.
You're people that arestruggling to make sense of life
in an unfair world.
Those kinds of transitions,those kinds of revelations.
Honestly, yeah, there's a lovecomponent because, you know,
(15:07):
beloved, if we love everyone,everyone that loves is born of
God and knows God.
So, if we can choose to love,if we can choose this is more
important to me that we buildbridges, that I understand that
I really get to the core ofwhat's real in this and what is
not.
Let's see what the Bible says.
That's a whole better processthan than any other that is
(15:30):
being presented by anypolitician right now, especially
the ones that want to say thatthey're biblical people and they
hold a Bible up to show thatthey're biblical people, and
it's upside down.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Shouldn't that be a cue?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Wouldn't you want to look and go?
He's going to hold a Bible upto.
I mean, as a Christian I wouldbe.
So you know like what the mywife would be all over you're
holding it upside down.
Now that's not super critical.
It's like I should know thatfundamentally.
I should know that that isn'tholding a Bible upside down and
you don't hold the Bible thatway when you're presenting it to
(16:06):
other people, right.
But in the deceptive processit's like oh, he was just
grabbing it really quickly.
Come on, he's got 16preparation people with him.
There's like 14 people rightaround him that could say Mr
President, you have the bibleupside down, you need to turn it
around.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh, yeah, yeah, thank you but no one dared to tell
him that, or they thought it wasimportant enough.
I don't know so.
And again, uh it, it all framesthe narrative right through
those dissimulations, uh, thoseequivocations, all those
different things, those anticsand semantics, right, all those
different things create thenarrative that he is a man of
God, like you say.
Even he held the Bible upsidedown.
I don't know if he ever evenopened one.
(16:45):
He does not exhibit any fruitof the spirit and that's why I
cannot phantom, why I mean,we're talking major evangelists,
people that have millions ofpeople watching them on weekly
television, are saying thatDonald Trump is this, that and
the other, and I just I don'tget it.
And so that's why I know whenthe Bible says in that day, many
(17:06):
will be deceived.
You know we see the only bookwith prophecy fulfilled coming
to light.
And but again, when we'retalking about deception, again
it's those little things thatcreate narratives.
It's all about the framing ofnarratives.
And people use all theseeuphemisms and all these
(17:26):
answering questions, wit,questions, type of things they
allude from the action, theyagain that verb tense we were
talking about, all thosedifferent things you know go.
It's like a big, it's circlesthings you know, goal is like a
big it's circles.
Just picture a bunch of littlecircles going around in a big
circle and and that's it.
That's the game we're in,that's the swirl, we're in the
(17:47):
confusion, the chaos and andjust all those things.
And we know that those thingsare not from god, you know, and,
of course, like the eluding ofactions, you know just all these
different things.
Yeah, like this gentleman.
Of course, he, just somebody,just got felt guilty on all 34
counts of this, on that crime,34 counts, right, 34 counts.
(18:12):
But yet, you know, again, thenarrative is well, this is
persecution.
I'm being persecuted for yoursakes, and it's like no, you try
to conceal the matter.
And now the bigger matter isthat that little thing that you
psychology, I believe that isbeing used.
I believe that there's peoplesitting in a room saying how can
(18:42):
we deceive these people?
And they are carefully placingwords and sentences to make
people feel that, oh, it's usagainst them.
Like you know, trump will sayit's us against them.
It ain't no us.
He grew up in New York.
You know you're talking tosomeone in Alabama.
You know it's the same thingNixon did, we, we, we, and it's
(19:04):
like there is no, we, but theyagain.
People don't realize thatthey're voting against their own
best interests.
The same people that aretelling you hey, I'm for you.
They're going to cut yourgrandmothers and your mothers
and even your social security.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And let's face it, you know, joe Biden is no saint
right.
It's not like we're saying, youknow, oh, you got to vote for
Biden because he's so muchbetter than Trump.
I had a discussion with theother day someone.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I said you know, it really is the lesser of two
evils when it comes right downto it, louisiana or Louisiana,
either way, it's like the onesin South Carolina.
They upheld them.
And of course, now there is aobvious evidence of partisan.
(20:05):
You know, partisan and.
And nothing can be done aboutit.
You know, and.
But again, so many people havebeen manipulated, duped, tricked
into believing that thesebehaviors are okay.
And it's just over these yearsthat all these lies that have
been told we have slowly allowedourselves to be conditioned to.
(20:27):
Just, even though we know it'sa lie, we just we tend to laugh
it off.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Or we find a way to continue to construct a way that
that must be a lie.
I mean, the 34 felony countsright, depending on which level
of deception you're going intoor which type of deception you
choose to adopt and maintain.
You're either seeing that asevidence of a corrupt judicial
system, or you're seeing it asevidence of a witch hunt that's
(20:56):
being successfully manipulated.
Or you're seeing it as evidenceof a judge and a jury that were
obviously partisan and arelooking to just corrupt and
convict an innocent man.
And you have another side thatare seeing.
Finally, the American justicesystem is working.
Finally, the richest and themost powerful people in the
(21:19):
world are being held accountableto the same laws that everybody
else would have been held andis held accountable to If he had
been anybody else, if he hadbeen anybody else in any of the
cases so far.
You have to be able to talk to alawyer.
For God's sakes the evidencethat they wouldn't have brought
these trials in the first placeif they didn't have evidence
that they could prove something.
(21:40):
It's just not worth the time.
So they were taking a hugechance just doing this in the
first place.
So talk to a lawyer, talk tosomebody who's really a lawyer.
I'm blessed to have multiplefriends and family members that
are lawyers and they start goingthrough the legal situations
going on here.
It is absolutely terrifyingbecause if we can dismantle our
law which is really one of thegreat cathedrals of our, our
(22:03):
country, because that's whereyou get to prove innocent until
proven guilty- you know, you seethe demonization of, uh, the
legal system or the judicialsystem.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Because, again, let's look at the projectionism uh of
the fact, because, like a priorto uh now remember, uh, someone
wanted to use the attorneygeneral to go after other people
and then he even tried toappoint various people in the
DOJ offices to go after otherpeople.
He even appointed thispostmaster general to do all
(22:34):
these different things.
And now what is happening?
They project, oh well, the dojis weaponized because they
raided my house, or is beingweaponized.
All these things are being uhformed against me and it's like
no, but you tried to do it inthe first place.
And that's where theprojectionism and the answering
questions with questions and thewhat about?
(22:55):
Isms.
I just wish people would justslow down and listen and start
to do research for themselves.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Think about magic too I'm sorry to interrupt I think
about how, when you're amagician, what you have to
recognize is that the thing thatthey're trying to get you to
look at is not where the magicis happening.
So, if I'm doing somethingreally cool up here, what's
really happening is somewhereaway from where I'm trying to
pull your focus to, and that'sexactly what we're trying to do,
(23:26):
right, we're trying to get youto think about.
Oh, you know the words, youknow I love your phrase there
the antics of semantics.
You know, because it is, it'sthe antics of sitting around the
spin that we can have on things, Because, you know, I'm just
amazed at the number of thingsimmediately after the conviction
happened.
It's just, you know, this isjust absolute terrorism.
(23:49):
You know of our country that aleader, a strong leader, is such
as being, you know, persecutedthis way, and you're like I
don't get it.
Where did this all happen?
That we decided that thejudicial system is only just, if
it does what I think it shoulddo the laws?
are supposed to be pretty clear,and if there's anything that we
(24:11):
have been brought to believeover time is that if you have
enough money, you can get out ofthings.
If you have enough money andpower, you can get out of things
.
Well, here's an opportunitywhere somebody had enough money
and enough power to get out ofjust about anything and he
really really tried and hedidn't get out of it.
We ought to be going, hey, itworked, you know, the laws got
(24:33):
upheld.
But instead now we're lookingto say, well, no, those laws
aren't just and that reallywasn't true, it really didn't
happen that way.
He's being held accountable tosomething that didn't happen.
Okay, so, and think about that.
Let's just think for just asecond America.
Okay, think about the fact thatthe two largest battles that
have been going on since MrTrump was in office, one was to
(24:55):
attack the media, which sorrymedia.
It did a lot to deserve that.
Okay.
But fake news right.
If anyone was doing fake news,it was people at the Fox News
Network who, back in the 80s, incable television, realized that
there's money to be made here.
If we just spin these storiesand keep spinning these certain
stories, there's money to bemade.
(25:17):
And then, of course, everybodyelse was saying the same thing,
because they've got sponsorshipsthey have to sell and anchor
salaries they have to pay.
Okay, so there's good reason tocall it fake news.
But then we went even furtherand started to say that anything
that I don't like obviously isfake news.
So now we've got alternativefacts.
(25:37):
I wish people would just spendsome time thinking about what
the hell is the phrasealternative facts, because when
I was a kid back in the 60s, Icould spend that to my mom and
dad.
Well, mom, I really didn't takethat cookie that was in the jar
.
There was this cookie monsterthat came and took it and
there's no such thing as acookie monster.
Well, according to you, mom,there is no cookie monster, but
(25:59):
to me, I saw the cookie monsterand he took that cookie.
So that's an alternative fact,right?
My alternative fact is a cookiemonster came, there was, in
fact, really, if you werewatching and there was a camera,
you would know that there wasno cookie monster, except
perhaps moi, because I did infact take that cookie.
(26:20):
But here we are right.
Here we are accepting that onthis grandiose scale, we can
allow something as ludicrous asan alternative fact to exist and
at the core of that is what istruth, and that's a
philosophical argument that youreally do start to have to get
(26:40):
into.
What is truth?
How do we define truth?
How do we know truth from lie?
And that's where Antoine and Iwould come back to.
Well, you got to start with theBible, because there's truth
there that has been accepted forthousands and thousands of
years, prophetic truth that it'sreally.
You know, let's take away allthe well, all these cattle
(27:00):
sacrifices and blah, blah, blahthat you know are difficult to
deal with.
I get it.
It's not like every single wordhas to be held on to.
Oh, we got to do it.
We got to stone people outsidethe gates.
Still, no, that's not whatwe're talking about.
We're talking about corerealities of the human heart, of
the human condition, becausethat's really what we're talking
about.
Jesus.
(27:25):
We're talking about somebodythat came to heal.
The heart turns our hearts ofstone into hearts of flesh.
That's what ends up happening,and that flesh is the thing that
is, a living flesh that canlook at the world around and say
that doesn't seem right, lord,what am I not seeing here?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And again, it's like you know, when you were saying,
like the alternative facts, youknow, we really have to again,
people have to search outmatters for themselves.
You know, of course, when wetalk about these alternative
facts, no, they are justbasically like these vague
statements or basically thesevague expressions that will
allow the deceit or, if you will, or the person, person, the
(27:59):
deceptive person, to come backand change his story later.
You know, and we have to reallybe like what you use, the
example of, uh, the doomsdayperson.
Oh well, god gave us grace, soit's gonna.
The date has been extended, youknow, and people have to really
again have to start to look andresearch things for themselves.
And again you also mentioned wewere talking about the law
(28:21):
people demonize the law.
The lawmakers are actuallydemonizing the law right now.
And so, again, to a simpleperson or a person that has not
or is not willing to do theresearch for themselves, will
just take that and run with it.
And again, that proper, thatpropagandizing of the mind, you
(28:45):
know, of course we see itrepeating a matter, repeating a
matter, repeating a matter, it'swe're in a space where, like
you said, you know, we have toget to a space of where we are
seeking one truth.
You know the Bible tells us lionlips are an abomination to the
Lord, but he who acts faithfullyare his delight.
(29:07):
You know, and of course we know, that unbalanced skills are an
abomination to the Lord.
Scales are an abomination tothe Lord.
When a person is trying tomanipulate votes and gerrymander
and all these different kind ofthings, is that not balancing
or trying to unbalance thescales?
It is happening in plain sight.
(29:30):
People will begin to open theirword or seek out worthy
spiritual counsel that is notone-sided to a matter.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
And again, that's all we can pray for at this point.
Just people turn to God.
Yeah, and truth.
Truth is unifying.
You know, truth and love areunifying principles, they're
unifying concepts, they areunifying ideals and, you know,
righteousness is unifying,justice is unifying.
But if we can't admit, if wecan't, you know, I mean, part of
(30:09):
the problem I have with law is,I'm a Star Trek fan and I just
watched an episode of Star Trek,strange New Worlds, and it was
fascinating because it wasactually about justice and
discrimination.
And one of the characters,who's a, you know, a genetically
modified individual, iscourt-martialed, put on trial
for having lied about it,because in in that society
(30:29):
they're not accepted.
It's considered, you know, ahorrible crime to have
genetically genetic modificationdone.
But they used that then as awhole foundation for discussing
the idea of laws that are justand laws that are unjust.
And even in the defenseattorney's arguments she started
talking about how there are allseries of laws.
(30:52):
We used to think that it wasokay to discriminate against
somebody for the color of theirskin and we've used, you know,
the religion that they practiceas a reason to discriminate them
and to keep them out of thingsand to punish them.
You know that's the history ofhuman civilization.
But the reality is that at somepoint we come to realize that
that is an unfair injustice andwe change the laws so that they
(31:18):
accommodate the fact that we nowrecognize this is unjust and
we're not going to allow itanymore.
We're going to make that thisillegal.
It's not like the law isperfect and lawyers will tell
you that, but what the law is isactionable.
So if we can choose to justbelieve, okay, is this
interpretation of the lawconvenient or is it just?
(31:40):
And that's where thoseprecedences are set Right,
Exactly right, right.
And that's where our SupremeCourt has got some real fun ones
up ahead of them.
Because if you decide that apresident is immune from
prosecution for things they didwhile they were in the office
and you know, take a step backand think for a second.
(32:02):
If a president does things thatare so bad that you have to
hope and fight and pray that youcan get immunity so that you
don't get in trouble for doingthose things, then I got to ask
why are we even allowing aperson to have that kind of
power that they could do thosekinds of things and not have to
be afraid of immunity.
No, this is the first time thatsomebody has done things bad
(32:24):
enough, that are serious enough,that have serious enough
potential consequences thattheir only hope is to be immune.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
And we've got, you know we got to go back to the
early parts of this thing.
Remember how many uh itprobably over a hundred
lawmakers, uh, between the uhhouse and the Senate, were all
lining up for pardons becausethey knew what they were doing
was wrong, yeah, yeah.
And then you know what does theBible say?
(32:53):
Uh, theness and justice is thefoundation of his throne.
That means the equality, theequity, the fairness, the
justice.
You know those are thefoundations of his throne.
You know the, you know takingcare of the fatherless and the
widow foundations of his throne,making sure that there's equity
and equality, foundation of histhrone.
And of course, now, justice.
(33:14):
Now is a well, well, you getwhat you deserve.
Or well, justice.
People have changed the wordjustice.
It has, uh, multiple meaningsnow.
Yeah, well, if you don't work,you don't eat.
And, of course, if you don't dothis, you don't do, you don't
get that.
And that's just justice.
That's just the way it is.
And it's like, again, thepreamble, what it says, uh,
provide for the common defense.
(33:35):
No republicans and democratscan agree on hey, let's spend
money on defense, but promotinggeneral welfare.
That means making the scalesbalanced because, again, we we
had this conversation over andover again about how the scales
became unbalanced in the firstplace.
Not as that, as you try tofight to balance the scales, the
(33:57):
fight to keep them unbalancedjust becomes greater and greater
.
The enemy is getting bolder andbolder, the lies are getting
bigger and bigger and louder andlouder, and it's just again.
People are now using, peopleare using forms of intimidation,
you know, and all thesedifferent things, to maintain
(34:18):
the lie.
Right, rather than uh, ratherthan just say you know what I
was wrong, right, you're doubledown on the lie, and so it again
.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's why we pray that's just, and a challenge to
anyone that's listening, andchallenge anyone that you want
to get to listen.
In this whole field ofdeception and I alluded to it
with magicians right, they'redeceiving us.
They'll tell you well, it's atrick, it's magic, you know,
which is, yeah, I fooled you,right.
But what's important in thatwhole situation, too, is we I,
(34:52):
you, everybody we allowourselves to be deceived.
We allow it.
That's something that you can'tdeceive someone if they don't
allow it.
It's really difficult todeceive a skeptic, because a
skeptic is very unwilling tobelieve anything without serious
(35:14):
, regimented examination andtheir own experience, which is
very much.
That can't possibly be.
It's just.
How could that possibly?
How could black people possiblybe right?
How could white people possiblybe?
The things that entrench us andmake it so easy for us to be
divided are things we'reallowing.
(35:37):
So ask yourself, ask God inprayer, god, what am I allowing
myself to be deceived in?
How am I looking at the worldand allowing things that I've
been taught or things that I'vebeen told that I, you know, have
never challenged?
How am I allowing them to colormy interactions with people on
(36:00):
the basis of their skin, on thebasis of their religion, on the
basis of their you know culturalbackground, on the basis of
their political affiliation?
Really, because isn't it muchmore interesting to get to know
people that are very differentfrom you?
I find it fascinating thatanyone that you talk to and you
(36:21):
start to ask questions about hey, how did you get into that?
Why do you enjoy doing it?
Why do you not enjoy doing it?
What sorts of things have youdone with that?
What kind of experiences haveyou had there?
Have you had there?
I mean, those questions ofgetting to know people are so
much more fundamentallyimportant to human beings and us
finding a way forward than itwill ever be by saying, well,
(36:43):
you don't know this and youdon't believe this, and if you
don't get this through yourstupid head, we're never going
to get anywhere.
That is not how we've evergotten anywhere, except when
there are warlords involved.
That's usually the.
Those are the people that arereally successful with those
kinds of tactics.
So is that who we want to be?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah, and going back to the earlier part of our
conversation, again, peoplehaving to research things for
themselves, you know, of course,the Bible tells us simply do
not believe every spirit, buttest the spirits to see whether
they are from God.
For many false prophets havegone out into the world, so we
have to research the matteragain.
Proverbs 25, I believe, 25 andthree.
(37:25):
It is to a King's honor tosearch out a matter, to research
a matter, and yes, that's goingto require work, it's going to,
it's going to hurt, it's goingto, it's going to know.
When the mirror is put to ourown face, sometimes we ain't
going to like what we see, butit has to happen in order for us
to get rid of this spirit ofbitterness and this spirit of
wrath and anger and clamor andslander and division and just
(37:48):
this chaos and dysfunction.
We got to learn how to be kindto one another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, becausethat's what Jesus came to do for
us we got to learn how to bekind to one another,
tenderhearted, forgiving oneanother, because that's what
Jesus came to do for us.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You're the man and you just talked about the man.
You're the man and you justtalked about the man and you got
to go.
I'm looking at my clock going.
I got to get him out of here.
He's got to go.
He's got places to go.
He's a full seat.
But, bro, it is always such anhonor and such a joy to pull
back the cover on some of thisstuff together.
I hope it still is that for you.
God, please let it be that forhim as well.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Oh, brother and I tell you off camera all the time
, man, how grateful I am to haveyou and because I consider you
a friend.
Man, uh, you know, you and I wecould can have some bare
knuckle, bloody knuckleconversations about what is and
it's always good to have that.
Just say, as a black man, havethat white friend.
I can ask you a question thatit doesn't sound silly.
It's like hey, this has been aperception or a misconception
(38:47):
that I've had.
Can you help me figure this out?
And then that teaches me hey,I've had the wrong thought
process, or whatever the casemay be.
And so that's where this comesin, brother.
So I greatly appreciate you,man.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Thank you, bro.
So, ladies and gentlemen, anddogs I hope some dogs are
listening.
I love dogs.
So you've been listening toFrame of Reference coming
together.
My name is Raul, that's Raul,like Raul La Bresh, like fresh.
And you are sir.
That's Juan Haldeman Sr.
And we are so happy that youtuned in and listened to this
today.
We hope you'll listen againnext week, following week.
(39:23):
We're not sure.
We kind of do this like thewind.
So, but everybody, take careand go do some thinking okay and
, more importantly, do someloving.
There it is All right, there itis.
Take care, man, see you.
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