Real Voices, Paid Protest

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What if paying protesters made movements more honest instead of less? We sit down with Adam Swart, CEO of Crowds on Demand, to unpack how compensated advocacy actually works, why protests are context builders rather than public headcounts, and how to navigate a media ecosystem that rewards outrage over nuance. Adam pulls back the curtain on strategy: where you rally, what you say, and how you craft visuals—all to reach the second audience that never shows up in person but decides what trends tomorrow.

We trace the arc from personal discipline and leadership ideals to modern persuasion. Adam shares why he sees compensation as the backbone of professionalism, how underdogs can outmaneuver entrenched money with smarter tactics, and what it takes to ask questions that bridge divides instead of hardening them. We examine the algorithms that keep us scrolling, the sensationalism that books TV guests, and the practical habits that help anyone spot manipulation: contextualize numbers, interrogate claims, and talk with people who don’t vote like you.

Adam also breaks down one of his most visible projects—the Delete Facebook movement—and the ripple effects it helped catalyze, from brand repositioning to political ad shifts. Then we go bigger: a candid call to challenge Big Food’s engineered addictions and the unequal health burden they create. If you care about civic power, media literacy, and how ideas win attention in 2025, this conversation offers a blueprint you can use—whether you’re organizing a cause, leading a team, or just trying to think more clearly in a noisy world.

If this episode challenged you or gave you a new lens, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review to help more curious listeners find us.

Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.

Episode Transcript

unknown (00:00):
Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Well, welcome everyone to another edition of
Frame of Reference, Profiles andLeadership.
And uh I I gotta tell you, youknow, I every once in a while I
get to do a show that is even abit above the normal wonderful
guests that I get, the peoplethat are interested to talk to.
Because this time my guest is uhI think he and I are a little
bit more like kindred spirits insome ways.

(00:22):
So it should should be fun.
Um, but uh my guest today isAdam Swart, who is the CEO of a
company called Crowds on Demand,right, Adam?
I'm getting that right.
Right, okay, right.
Adam, tell our audience in in aframe of reference who who is
Adam Swart?
If we were to stop someone onthe street and say, Who is Adam
Swart?
What would they say?

SPEAKER_02 (00:42):
Well, I think they'd probably say, Who is Adam Swart?
Because I have never heard ofhis name.
So not that famous.

SPEAKER_00 (00:50):
So this is a humility lesson, too, on top of
it all.

SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
So but if you were to Google me, you'd probably
find that I uh founded thiscompany called Crowds on Demand.
Uh, that's probably what I'mbest known for in life.
I don't know whether that's agood thing or a bad thing.
But um, I'm best known forfounding a company called Crowds
on Demand.
And that company is best knownfor being a one-stop resource

(01:14):
for creating advocacy groups,publicity, and probably best
known of all, uh, protesters.
Okay, right.
So we have become very famous inone way or another, the company,
not myself, but the company forproviding protesters, right?
Right.
And compensating protesters andbeing very direct about the fact

(01:35):
that we offer compensation toprotesters to attend protests
that they agree with.
So if you ask who is Adam Swart,um, from a Google standpoint,
that's who I am.
Obviously, I'm a human being.
Um, although on the internet,there are theories, uh, Roel,

(01:55):
that uh I'm AI, I'm not actuallya real person.
Me too.
Me too.
I do.
Yeah, no, no.
Well, you just never knowsometimes.
A lot of people say, uh, he'she's not a real person.
It's a made up name, and it'slike, okay, well, that's that's
what you think of.
That's very interesting.
I always say they're like, oh,his skin looks too smooth.

(02:16):
I'm like, well, you're you'rereally just giving a compliment
to my skincare regimen.

SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
So right.

SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
I'm okay with it.
I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 (02:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
Um so so basically, uh, that's what I'm known for.
That's probably why I'm on theprogram uh from your end.
Um, I just actually always liketo do this when I go on
podcasts, is I like to be veryupfront about why I am on the
podcast.

SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Well, I appreciate that.
Uh, I'm not sure why I am on thepodcast myself, but that's okay.
I get to talk to you, so that'sfun.

SPEAKER_02 (02:46):
So it's a fair question because you never know
sometimes wire someone, are theytrying to get publicity?
Are they trying to get newbusiness?
I have one major reason forgoing on these podcasts.
Number one, to make it clear,because there's so much
misinformation that's beenspread about my business, that

(03:06):
what we do and what we don't do,right?
So there's so muchmisinformation about crowds on
demand that we engage in illegalactivity, we engage in riots,
like you know, that we're we're,you know, providing uh crisis
actors.
I mean, there's just like a webof conspiracy theories out
there.
And by me coming out there, I'mhoping to uh you know put a dent

(03:29):
in that um and have them meet meand and understand what it is
that we do.
And then the second part is tokind of help understand, even if
you don't think I'm some crazy,like triple agent, uh crisis
actor, organizer, conspiracyperson.
Well, okay, well, then I stillthink what he does is wrong.

(03:50):
Okay, well, I want to unpackthat and have people at least
understand our our perspectiveon how commentating people is
actually what you'd expect in inany kind of occupation, and and
it doesn't actually make thediscourse less genuine.
So those are two reasons why Ikind of have been doing a few
podcasts here and there is tohave that conversation.

(04:11):
And um uh so I just like to bevery upfront about why I'm doing
it, but of course I'm happy totalk about anything under the
sun.

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Well, you know, and and it is weird because you are
in, and and this may be part ofthe dispelling the uh perception
of things, but you are in a abusiness, if you will, that is
uh can be used for kind of uh amoral gray area.
You know, I'm sure I'm happy tohear that you know you're saying
that you are hiring people, butyou're hiring people that

(04:42):
believe in the causes that theyare actually going to be paid to
be a part of.
So, in some ways, that that'snot that different from me
getting paid to be a judge for adrama contest.
I mean, I would likely goanyways just to see, you know,
the kids performing, but it'sreally nice to get paid to be
there.

SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
It's more likely you go.
It's more likely you go.
That's the thing, yeah, is thatas uh being paid is a way of
ensuring professionalism andeffectiveness, right?
Of what you're doing.
For example, if you're uhsomeone on the on the left and
and you get in trouble, wouldyou like to hire an attorney

(05:19):
who's also on the left, right?
Right, probably, but that you'dstill be paying that attorney on
the left or vice versa if it wason the right.
So I think being paid is a goodthing when you're doing
something that is helpful tosomebody.
But um I I actually uh recentlyI hate the idea of people doing
free labor because I think it'skind of slavery, actually.

(05:42):
I was at a Grateful Dead concertthe other night, and I saw these
volunteers and they're cleaningup all the trash.
And I'm like, with what theycharge us to go to this concert,
they can't afford to pay peopleto pick up trash.
They they're making their fanspick up trash for free.
Like to me, that seems morallywrong.

SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Yeah, anyway, yeah, that's that's exploitive in the
worst kind, right?
You're gonna take somebody'sappreciation for something, and
yeah, you can do this, you canhelp with cleaning up the trash.
So, because that'll that'll saveus money on not having to pay
for trash picker uppers, youknow.

SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
Right, when your fee for this concert must be in the
six or seven figures,presumably.
Yeah, yeah.
So um, so so that's I guess thepoint.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Excellent.
So, well, I think I warned you alittle ahead of time that uh we
like to start out with a sectioncalled My Favorite Things.
One of these days, Adam, maybeI'll be able to pay for Julie
Andrews or a facsimile to singthat song as we start this big
part of the show, kind of likeJeopardy's dun dun dun dun.
I don't have that kind of moneyyet, so it's uh the copyright

(06:45):
alone, the BMI licensing wouldbe cost prohibitive.
But we just this is just I'mgonna throw out some things.
This is really Roshaktian.
You don't have to worry aboutright or wrong.
If you, you know, it's best ifit just comes off the top of
your mind.
So we get to know the real AdamSchwart.
Okay.
Ready?
So here we go.
How about the favorite place youlike to go to to de-stress?

SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Oh, uh the tennis court number one.
Okay.
Uh, it's very relaxing playingtennis because you don't have
your phone with you, right?
Um, uh there's very fewactivities in life where you
don't have the phone constantlytethered to you.
And I don't know, maybe thereare people who play with their
phone in their pocket.
I you can't probably play verywell.
So it's a way of basicallysaying you're completely focused

(07:29):
on the point, and not only onthe point, you got to really
keep your eye on the ballmetaphorically, but but
literally.
Yeah.
So I really enjoyed that as a asone way to just kind of focus on
something and not be constantlydistracted.

SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
You know, it's interesting because I grew up in
the 60s and the 70s, and we wenever would have thought about
making sure we went somewhere sowe could always be available.
I mean, that that is part of thestress of today.
I, you know, really think is tothat we we can't seem to accept
the fact that the world will goon fine without me for a bit,

(08:04):
you know.

SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
I mean, I think like that's just one minor pushback
to that one benefit of thephones, and I'm not here to
shelter phones by any uh mean,but uh is the idea of like it
used to be in in the time thatyou referenced, you might have
to just sit at your office eightto six, yeah, because maybe
somebody calls and you want tobe there.

SPEAKER_01 (08:21):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Whereas you uh you know, I could be on the tennis
court and you know, I mightcheck my phone every you know
few games here and there, right?
And if there's something reallyimportant that required my
attention, I could apologize tothe person I'm playing with and
and and attend to that, butthat's very that doesn't
normally happen, right?
You know, so I'm out thereplaying tennis instead of not

(08:43):
being able to.
So you know, I I see it bothways, but I think most people
have taken it to the phones toan like another degree where
they sit, they check it becauseof work, but they stay on it
because of the social media, thenews media, the all of that sort
of thing.
They have to be connected, theycan't consume responsibly, you

(09:05):
know what I mean?
One drink a day, right?
And right, you know, keep yourphone under like an hour or so a
day would be great, like in thesort of non-work department.
That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
Yeah, well, even the social media stuff, right?
You know, we we live under the II think kind of a delusion that
we're gonna miss something.
We're gonna miss somethingreally important if we're not,
you know, on Facebook or on, youknow, in Instagram, whatever.
You know, you're it's justgreat.

SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Believe me or not, the stuff that I get fed on.
I'm only on Twitter, um, but uhthe stuff that I get fed is just
just total garbage most of thetime.
So yeah, not not no need.
And they also feed you ragebait, like they feed you stuff
that they think you're going tolike rage against because they

(09:49):
want to get you fighting withother people, right?
I mean, the algorithms arebrilliant.
I mean, they they've studied allhuman behavior.
I mean, Twitter and Facebook, Imean, these companies have been
around like decades, right?
So they have all the data fromall of the years that they've
been in business, they knowexactly what keeps you on there
longer, that keeps you buying,that keeps you raging.

(10:10):
You know, these companies aresick, frankly.
They are sick.

SPEAKER_00 (10:13):
Well, you wonder too, you know, does does anyone
that's at the helm of thosecompanies, are any of them
thinking of the endpoint thatthey're driving people towards?
You know, are they are theyconscious of those?

SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
Very much dis dystopian.
Yeah.
Um, so like there was thisreally creepy ad a few years ago
uh by Facebook that was showinglike these like these like dolls
and like uh that were like theywere live, they were like
miserable, but they were livingtheir whole life through virtual
reality, and their virtualreality was happy.
So yeah, so it I mean, what whatwhat they see as their ends is

(10:53):
actually dystopian and evidencedby the fact that if you look at,
I mean, we're off on a tangenthere, that Elon is plotting
Mars, another planet, and MarkZuckerberg has basically like a
bunker in his Hawaii estate,right, in Hawaii, right?
So these people who own theseoligarchs who own these

(11:14):
companies have exit plans and itdoesn't include the rest of us.
So yeah, so so yeah, so if youactually want to like see it in
a really dark way, they don'treally care about helping
humanity at all.

SPEAKER_00 (11:27):
Yeah, which is unfortunate because you think if
if everyone else is gone andit's just left, all that's left
are the oligarchs.
I mean, for the most part, thoseare not fun people to be around.
And you get a whole bunch ofthem together and they're all
jockeying for who's you know,they're all they're all
jockeying.

SPEAKER_02 (11:42):
Yeah, and the the so so like if you talk about the
like the oligarchs, that's kindof how they think.
And I think the one level down,they're just focused on the
money, you know, the money thatthey're getting paid is is quite
a lot, right?
And and they're like, hey, let'sjust do that.
And I'm not really concernedabout the long-term implications
of what we're doing, sure.

SPEAKER_00 (11:59):
Um, yeah, yeah.
That's just unconscionable tome.

SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
Yeah, this is supposed to be a rapid fire
thing, and I gave you like avery long answer.

SPEAKER_00 (12:06):
Oh no, that's that you know, that's what I mean
about organic conversations.
They go where they're gonna go.
So I I prompted you too.
So I I can't, you know, I I wascontributing.
How about a favorite historicalpersonality?
Is there somebody that youreally look back on and admire?

SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
Oh, there's there's too many.
I mean, the the Detroit answerwould be someone like Abe
Lincoln, right?
But but I I don't know aboutthat.
Um, I would say um I I've I'm abig fan of Teddy Roosevelt.
Um you know, I would say thatTeddy Roosevelt brought America

(12:40):
into the era of being on top ofthe world.
If it weren't for him and hisinternationalist outlook, um the
United States may have remaineda regional power at least for a
long time.
And Teddy Roosevelt had a realglobal outlook on the world, and
he uh saw America as a force inthe world.

(13:03):
So I uh and in addition to that,I also think he uh he balanced
the need of speaking of theoligarchs, right?
He dealt with the rail barons,right?
At the time, the rail baronswere uh what those tech barons
are today, yeah, right?
And they were they had so muchpower, and uh Teddy Roosevelt,

(13:24):
who was a capitalist, but heknew he feared kind of like the
the uh the early stages ofcommunism, right?
And he knew that if theseoligarchs were able to oppress
the people so much you he wouldthe people would eventually
rebel.
So he tried to essentiallybalance the needs of the labor
unions with the needs of the umthe of the business community.

(13:48):
And I feel like he he may havestalled uh the uh the kind of uh
inception of communism in theUnited States.
So I think like between theinternational outlook and the
balance between business and umsort of people, uh I I really
admire the man.

SPEAKER_00 (14:07):
You know, it's interesting too, because we we
talk about leadership a lot,right, with with this podcast,
but um I always think of peopleand their their character and
their background.
And he's such an interestingproduct of having been a sickly
kid, you know, and just havingall kinds of health issues and
having a dad who, you know,drove him to be physically able,

(14:28):
um, you know, running up anddown cliffs or whatnot, you
know, to to really push him tobe more than he was.
And I I sometimes wonder if thatwasn't part of the reason that
he did become such a globalvisionary, is because he he knew
from his own personal experiencewhat was possible when you
pushed yourself more.
And uh, you know, theytranslated that into uh his his

(14:49):
roles, right?

SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
Right.
And yeah, no, that that I didnot know about the running up
the cliff, but I like thatbecause it's a especially if you
have challenges, it's a good,it's it's actually a great test.
That's actually it's funny thatyou mentioned it because I
didn't know about it.
But actually, when I kind ofstarted like getting into
running myself, was I startedhill running.

(15:12):
Um, because there's someaccomplishment of I'm summoning
this hill.
There's a definitive end insight, and you're summoning it.
So that's kind of a little bitof a tangent.
But yeah, Teddy Roosevelt is agreat leader.
I mean, of course, history isfilled with them.
I mean, the one thing that hedoesn't have that I do try to
look at, and not enough of themhave is the willingness to

(15:34):
sacrifice themselves or theirown gain for what they think is
right.
Yeah, and there are very, veryfew leaders that will do it.
Not that every leader should beexpected to do that, you're out,
but to actually say, I'm goingto do what is right, even though
I know it's going to cost methis election, I know it's going
to cost me whatever it is, ispolitically.

(15:55):
Yeah.
Right.
And not many leaders will dothat.
And I I I struggle to think ofexamples of high profile ones.

SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
It is, yeah, it is hard because you you you just
don't see that sense ofcharacter anymore in a lot of
people.
Um, and that that is the ifthere was ever was a time where
we needed people to be likethat, um, you know, to practice
uh a code of moral, ethical, um,you know, responsible behavior,
um boy, now now is the time.

(16:24):
Um how about let's do some quickfire stuff.
How about favorite color?
Blue.
Uh how about favorite food?

SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
Uh I would say uh when I kind of eat every day is
like a kale salad with chicken,maybe some like pizza on the
side, like rotisserie chicken.
Okay.
Uh, but if I had to pick afavorite cuisine for like going
out, it would definitely beMiddle Eastern food.
I love like swarma hummus, um,like any of that, you know.

(16:53):
And I don't, I'm not particular.
Like I've been to Israelrestaurants, I've been to
Palestinian restaurants, I'm notgetting involved.
I like them all.

SPEAKER_00 (17:00):
So you're not like Tony Stark who didn't know what
shawarma was and made thevendors go with him.

SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
There's something about swarma and Middle Eastern
food is that even though it'sfattening, it's like you don't
feel crappy afterward.
It's like just a really the bestfood I've ever had has been on
my trips to Israel, to Jordan,and to Lebanon.

SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (17:20):
They have just amazing food over there.

SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
Interesting.
How about uh favorite recipe?
Seeing as we're talking aboutfood.

SPEAKER_02 (17:27):
Uh well, I mean, my cooking skills are are limited
personally.
So what I tend to make when I'mcharged to make like a cooked
meal is fajitas.
Uh, but I I try to do it like ina fairly healthy way of uh
cutting up a ton of peppers, um,uh, you know, guacamole, you
know, uh wild rice.

(17:48):
Um uh I don't like onions, so Ido not put onions.
I know you're kind of supposedto do onions in it.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
I'm French.
You can't not like onions.
I'm sorry, this interview isconcluded.

SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
So so a little some herbs, and then you put um, you
know, what I actually do is youyou put some spinach in there
too, uh, some really goodhomemade salsa.
Well, homemade that I buy fromsomewhere else.
Um I don't make it much, buthomemade like I appreciate your
honesty.
So and so yeah, that that's kindof my go-to dish and have it

(18:21):
with some really good uhhomemade tortillas.

SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Okay, how about your your kryptonite, your thing that
kind of that uh what do theycall it, that sinful pleasure or
that you know that thing thatboy, if it's around you gotta
eat it unlow, you know it's notgood for you, and boy, you know.
Cinnamon rolls.
Cinnamon rolls?
Any particular brand or orplace?

SPEAKER_02 (18:40):
Uh it has to be like the homemade kind, like uh not
the cinnamon kind, like thereally homemade kind with a lot
of cinnamon on them.

SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
Okay.
Well, if you ever come to theSock Prairie area in Wisconsin,
I know just the bakery for you.
There's uh a woman that runs asmall bakery, she makes it
herself.
Um, and uh she makes a thingcalled a Cinnar Cinnabon or
Cinnarole, which is you know,with uh with the SIN as the

(19:12):
favorite movie?
Uh Forrest Gum.

SPEAKER_02 (19:16):
Really?
Hey, good good choice.
I I'm I'm kind of a historybuff, so I love his store, uh
history, and I also loveovercoming challenges.
Yeah, it was just a really it'sjust a sweet movie, yeah.
Um and like that that takes youthrough an America, a changing
America, right?
But in the most positive waypossible.

(19:38):
It was it's it's real, it'spositive.
He had obstacles and he over heovercame them, but his simple
look on life.
I mean, like I I love um the hisone line from it where where he
he invested in Apple, I think,and and this was even before
Apple is what it is, right?
But he invested in Apple and hemade a ton of money.

(19:59):
And he was like, Mama, we don'tneed to worry about uh they told
him you don't need to worryabout money anymore.
And he said, Well, that's great,that's one less thing to worry
about.

SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
You know, and it's just it's I I got that checked
off now.
Good deal.
Yeah, no, I would agree.
Forest Gump is a fantasticmovie.
I it was interesting to see uhRobert Zimikis and he and Robin
Wright all got together.
Uh uh, Tom Hanks got togetheragain to do the home movie.
I don't know if you've seenHome.
Oh it just came out uh inChristmas, November, Christmas

(20:31):
uh December of last year, and uhfascinating film, another one of
those with just a good story umand just a very unique.
He he did one camera location,and the entire thing happens
from that one camera.

SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Honestly, I I rarely go rarely go to the movies.
Okay, rare.
There's not really much good.
I do not like superhero moviesat all.
I oh really not just I neverwatch them.
I hate superhero movies.
I hate um they're so stupid.

SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
What is it?
Oh, you do you hate thestupidity of it, or is there is
there something particular?

SPEAKER_02 (21:07):
And I think I'm a little bit of a contrarian, so
maybe because everybody lovesthem, I'm like, this is just so
stupid.
Like, like it'll but it alsokind of feeds into this that
there's some superman who willsave us, some person with crazy
powers, and it's all gonna begreat as opposed to saying the
powers within ourselves, youknow.
Sure.
Um, like like what I like aboutForest Gub.

(21:29):
By the way, the other person,uh, you mentioned a few of the
people who are in Forrest Gubwho were great, but of course,
Sally Field was amazing, one ofthe greatest.

SPEAKER_00 (21:37):
Well, that's the thing, right?
He had a mom that was like SallyFields, and that was part of the
biggest reason why he succeeded.
So yeah, about that.
But that's interesting.
I, you know, I and I uh the thesuperhero movies have appealed
to me, but I also see themythology that's behind them,
you know.
So to me, they're not as muchabout the superpowers as they
are about the archetypical uhpeople that they represent.

(21:59):
That we've as you know, peoplehave had those kinds of you know
mythological beings forever.
You know, Superman is nothingbut you know Hercules and Zeus
and you know a whole bunch ofother Greek gods thrown together
into one pot.
That's very true.
So uh how about do you have afavorite recording artist?

SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
Oh, uh I've I love Eminem's earlier work from the
90s.
Um, yeah, I uh I love Eminem.
Uh he's a great uh I I likepeople who can rap about cause,
but then it it kind of just in avery subtle way, um, but also
just have a great beat.
So, you know, like with Eminem'sWithout Me, which I'm maybe I'm

(22:39):
getting it wrong, maybe it's2001, but late 90s, early 2000s.
Okay.
Um that that era of Eminem isjust amazing.
But you know, many, many otherson on that list.
Um and I try I also honestlylisten to a lot of classical
music too to relax.

SPEAKER_00 (22:54):
Do you have a particular classical artist that
you composer?
Who?

SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
Mozart's by Mozart's my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
Okay.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, Mozart, Mozart, Bach, um,all of those are um even bigger.

SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
They're all amazing artists, but I think it's the
the grace and smoothness and theuplifting tone of Mozart's music
that I like the most.

SPEAKER_00 (23:14):
Sure.
Makes sense.
So do you like hiscontemporaries to handle and the
like, or is it really Mozart'slike Mozart, uh Hayden uh I like
and Chopin.

SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
Okay.
I love Chopin's um uh piano uhwork the best.
Um like his piano um work is isamazing.
Um I think he uh I think there'sone that's called like the three
marches and or three waltz, andyeah, uh Chopin is is is amazing

(23:48):
as well.
So yeah, but I I listen to a lotof that.
But I mean I enjoy allclassical, but Mozart for kind
of broadly and Chopin for pianoin particular.

SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
What's interesting when you hear Mozart too, you
you know immediately that'sMozart, you know, and Bachet to
me is the same way too, and cantell, oh, that's Bachet.
I don't remember, but you know,it's part of the Goldberg, you
know, variations, but uh, Idon't remember which one or
whatever.
Yeah, I get it.
How how about this is the I Ilove to wrap up with this
question, but um, do you have aa favorite memory or a something

(24:19):
that will spark that favoritememory that when you think of
the thing or see the thing orsmell the bread or you know,
whatever it may be, that ittakes you back to a time, a
place, you know, just a group ofpeople sometimes um that is just
uh you know a pleasant place togo back to, and you know, you
find that you you you kind ofwish you could go back and maybe
do some things, or you just wantto you want to relive those

(24:41):
moments again.

SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
I think there's something about the smell of a
California morning, you know.
If you've I know that you'vespent a lot of time in
California, but it's uh it getsc it's cold in the morning, even
if you have a very hot day.
Um, it's it's normally prettychilly in the morning,
especially kind of by thecoastal areas.
Okay, great.
So there's something about thesmell of the grass and the

(25:04):
clouds and the marine layer thatjust kind of reminds me of
growing up, and uh it's it's soenergizing um to wake up with
it.
I I don't know, there'ssomething about that.
I mean, I've spent most of mylife in California, okay.
Um and it is uh it is like themagic of that place.
I mean, if if this werepolitical podcasts, I could get

(25:25):
into a lot of things that Idon't like about California, but
in regards to the weather, um,is just uh perfect.
And the being able to have thatlike morning chill and you know,
remembering going to school.
And by the way, it's good andbad memories.
I mean, there were morningswhere I just was like, oh god,

(25:45):
why am I up so early going toschool?
It's 6 a.m.
It's like every kid has thatjust it's my it's my background,
you know, and it's I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (25:55):
Okay, yeah, I I I've lived in LA for a year um
teaching at Cal State, and itwas uh it was fascinating to me
because they we remember one dayin particular, it was really
cloudy and kind of rainy, andyou know, I'm like, oh gosh,
cloudy, rainy days.
So and I'm kind of bummed to itbecause that's in Wisconsin,
that's you know, like 300 daysout of the year, it seems are

(26:15):
cloudy and rainy, right?
So, but everybody at school, allmy students and whatnot, were
just like thrilled.
They were just so up.
And I'm like, what's going on?
It's cloudy and rainy outside,kind of dismal.
And they're like, Yeah, but it'sdifferent.
It's always sunny around here,it's different.
That's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 (26:31):
And especially I don't know which side of LA, but
if it's on the more the eastside, downtown of LA, the
climate is totally different,right?
If you're in Santa Monica, likecoastal LA, you get the nice
marine layer and the mist a lot.
But if you go like east ofdowntown, um, you're kind of
getting more of like almost adesert climate sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (26:51):
So yeah, they you know, the rain when it rains, it
is beautiful, but the the city'snot really great at dealing with
the rain.
But yeah, the the beauty of likeseeing it, and but then the
other thing that it does to LAis um after the rain, you can
start seeing the mountains,right?
Like you know, there are just sofew days.
I know that you've seen thosepostcards of LA that have the

(27:13):
mountains in the back, but go toLA.
I can count the number of dayson my like two hands that where
I've actually seen thosemountains.
It doesn't happen very often,right?
Um, so so when it rains a lot,you get to see that you get to
see it's like the most muchpromised view.
It's like seeing Mao Fuji fromTokyo, like it's theoretically

(27:35):
possible, but but not notnormal.

SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Not gonna not gonna happen justby yeah, probably chance is more
than likely.
So tell me about um the wholejourney to um building a company
like uh you know, uh you'reyou're basically crowdsourcing,
right?
Um how did how did that come toyou?
Was that you had been ajournalist before that, right?

(27:59):
Was that something that kind ofcame out of that experience?

SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
Or um well, I know the media, yeah, you're right.
Uh uh I did I know the media andhow it works, and and the media
has changed, of course, becauseI've been in business for 13
years, so the media has changed,but even then it was media was
always wanting that even then,you had left-wing and right-wing
media, and they would alwayswant to cover what they want to

(28:23):
cover, right?
So if you give people protests,is something to cover, right?
Events, publicity stunts, mediaare desperate for content.
And in this world, where it'snot just the news networks, it's
you know, blog sites, it'ssocial media, and all that,
people are desperate for contentconstantly.

(28:44):
And protest is a way of givingpeople content that they can
then use to amplify.
So I saw there's a that uh I sawthe impact that protests and
rallies and and just setting theright context has for being a
catalyst for uh, you know, bothmedia attention, but more
broadly, like the results thatthe clients are looking for.

(29:07):
Um go ahead, sorry.
So so the thing is the onethere's kind of one
misinterpretation of protests,actually, is that I think a lot
of people think of protest as aplebiscite, that is to say, like
a poll or a vote.
And that's like if there's like300 people on one side of an
issue and 50 people on the otherside of the issue, then people

(29:28):
are for that issue six to one.
But that's not really how Ithink of protests.
I think protest is like anadvertiser.
What is the goal of anadvertiser, right?
The goal of an advertisement isto create the right context by
which you can then sell yourproduct to people, right?
It's to show hey, this ispopular, this is high quality,
these are the reasons you shouldkind of think about that

(29:51):
product, and then try to getkind of follow up attention.
So, uh what a protest is is hey,we want to reach the people that
we're kind of.
Protesting or rallying in frontof.
But then we also want to reachthe people through social media
or media who are not there,right?
And amplify that.
And it's about getting a ton ofattention to allow a cause to

(30:15):
grow, or in the case of a PRstunt, you know, the company to
grow.
Because think about how manyideas have basically died in
darkness, right?
So many amazing causes, so manyamazing companies.
They had a good product.
They had a good cause, but theynever were able to have the
budget to essentially evangelizeit.

(30:37):
And therefore, it basicallydied.
And we are the cure for that.

SPEAKER_00 (30:45):
So you know, I'm I keep thinking of like AI as in
some ways a correlative to thisbecause I personally am a fan of
AI.
I think there's a lot of of goodthat can come from AI.
The the issue that always hauntsme though with it, and honestly
kind of haunts me with this, iswho's pulling the strings behind

(31:07):
the dummy?
You know, who's who'sprogramming it, who's
determining which content getson and which content does not.
Because it, you know, in theworld of advertising, in the
worlds of AI, the person thatis, you know, handling the bank
role, if you will, um,oftentimes is the person that
that controls the message.

(31:28):
So that's right.

SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
That's absolutely right.
I mean, if you look at thedifference between how grok,
which is the Twitter X AI,operates versus ChatGPT versus
Google AI, right?
They are three AIs, but theyhave different overlords, right?
And they're going to offeroperate differently.
I mean, you know, I I'm notfamiliar enough with the science

(31:51):
on it um to to go directly intothat, but I know how I know that
this stuff can be programmed perthe request of the overlord,
right?
Um the overlord being Elon orGoogle or or Altman or whatever,
right?
Like these overlords who controlall this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (32:06):
Well, um, so so you're when you refer to us,
right?
Um in uh in that context, whatI'm saying is, yeah, I mean, if
you're saying, hey, money canbuy you visibility in the
capitalist country of the UnitedStates of America, then I 100%
agree with you, right?

(32:27):
Um the cost of a Super Bowl ad,I believe, is between five and
ten million dollars, right?
So most companies can't afford aSuper Bowl ad.
The ones that do get it.
And some of them make a ton moremoney because they were able to
do that, right?
Um, so yeah, if you're sayingthat there's some cost to
participation, then yes, I guessmy point is that, and I and I so

(32:51):
I totally submit to that idea.
And uh number one, what I wouldsay is actually in comparison to
a lot of advertising and otherstrategies, we actually are
cheaper.
So we actually give the underdogmore of a shot.

SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (33:04):
Um where where if you're going up against an
industry that spends fifty, ahundred million dollars plus in
lobbying a year, you could spendnot an inconsiderable amount of
money, but let's just say one ortwo million dollars to have an
extremely effective campaign byus to combat that.
Right, right.
So I'm not saying that we'redoing it for free, but the uh

(33:27):
cost difference between what theentrenched interest spends and
what the disruptive interestcould spend is is huge.
So we're actually kind of aforce for David against Goliath
in many cases.
So generally, the entrenched uhpower structures, whether they
be the established companies orthe established political

(33:49):
people, aren't the ones hiringus.
Why would you hire us if you'realready getting what you want?
You're the people who are hiringus are the people who are
actually the underdogs moreoften than not, who are
basically they can't competedollar for dollar in
advertising.
Right, they can buy more SuperBowl ads, they can hire more

(34:09):
lobbyists, but we can do this.
And because our message isbetter, we will win for that
reason.

SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Right.
You see what I'm saying?
Well, yeah, I mean, you'regetting people that don't have
nearly the financial resources afighting chance, if you will.
Um I think I I'm I'm thinkingtoo of the the issue of uh
what's the old Mike Mark Twainsaying, you know, uh believe
nothing of what you hear andonly half of what you see.
Um, you know, and it it it comesdown to, you know, I I sometimes

(34:39):
I I worry uh I guess what Ireally worry about is that there
are malevolent, you know, we'vetalked about a little bit before
that we there are malevolentforces that really don't care,
you know, the dystopian futurethat they are leading, you know,
a good chunk of people towards,they just don't care, you know,
that who's gonna suffer in themidst of that.
So are there things that youthink the the average person

(35:01):
should be aware of or can teachthemselves to be aware of, to
have the critical thinkingprocess that's necessary to say,
now wait a minute, this ispurposefully trying to get me to
a rage, you know, portion whereI my my emotions are so involved
that they just kind of take awayreason from the whole nine
yards, you know, that so thatyou would recognize, hey, wait a

(35:23):
minute, I I am beingmanipulated, just like I'm being
manipulated when there arebeautiful girl pictures on every
search engine that I go to,right?
It's they're not they aren'tthere by accident.
So right.

SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
Well, living in the United States, uh any capitalist
country, um, is is being thatmanipulating has a has a
negative connotation, but peopleare always trying to sell you
something, yeah, right?
Yeah, you're you know, I open upmy computer, right?
They're trying, there's ads,right?
I go on TV, there are ads.
I go to my phone, there are ads,right?

(35:57):
So a protest is so number one isto understand that a protest is
just one form of advertisement,right?
It's not it's if you stronglydis so well, I'll give you this
example, right?
Like people, I hate when peopledo this on both political sides,
right?
You have the people on the leftare like, uh, oh, you know, two
million people what you knowturned out to oppose Donald

(36:21):
Trump, right?
Well, it's like, yeah, 70million people uh supported
Harris in the election, right?
70, 75 million.
So yeah, so the fact that twomillion people turned out, I
don't know if it's true or not,but if they did, then it means
that um then then that does notmean the country's turning
against Trump.

(36:42):
That means that those twomillion people are against
Trump, which is believable inthe context that 75 million
people didn't voted against him,right?
Similarly, Trump always fightsum oh, there's a hundred
thousand people at my rally, twohundred thousand people trying
to get in or whatever.
It's like, yeah, well, you won80 million votes.

(37:02):
Like, yeah, that doesn't meanthat the other side is
supporting you, right?
So don't so I think one thingthat people should do is
contextualize and understand,okay, well, just because I see a
protest does not mean that iswhat everybody thinks.
Yeah, but instead, what theyneed to do is critically engage
with the subject matter of theprotest.

(37:24):
Do you agree if somebody issaying you know, 50,000
Palestinians murdered in Gaza,did that happen?
Number one, I don't know.
I mean, I I'm not aware of thestatistics, but did that happen?
Do I do I agree with theprotesters and and how they see

(37:46):
it, or do I feel like there'smore to the story?
Right?
They can unpack that themselvesand engage with that themselves,
right?
Um, and maybe speak to theprotesters and and say, well,
yes, this happened, but here'smy question for you, right?
So my my advice to people isengage with the subject matter,

(38:07):
don't believe, don't constantlythink, oh, well, this number is
here and this number is there.
So, so they're you know, that'sjust a misinterpretation of what
protest is.

SPEAKER_00 (38:18):
Well, it's so it's so weird, too, that um we're
we're trained, I think, in a lotof ways, to uh maintain our
cognitive bias.
You know, I I I'm always pushingpeople, get outside of your news
bubble, you know, because we'rewe're letting ourselves be
informed.
It to me, it's like you know,having nothing but a diet of

(38:39):
Pop-Tarts.
You know, well, a diet of PopTarts could be awful, but it's
really not that much worse thana diet of nothing other than
ramen noodles, you know, when itcomes right down to it.
So, or you know, a menu of justBrussels sprouts.
You know, you could takeanything and say, oh, this is
this is the only thing thatmatters.
Brussels sprouts are the only,that's the only thing I'm ever
gonna eat, blah, blah, blah.

(39:00):
Well, you know, there the whattroubles me is that we're so
polarized now because people arebeing encouraged to just stay
with their brand and notunderstand that, well, there are
benefits to other brands toothat you know you should
consider.
And you should consider thateverything that you're fed is
not necessarily true.
You know, there's uh there's nota lot of uh value necessarily in

(39:24):
telling people the absolutetruth.
You know, we're just uh we'renot geared towards that.
There's a lot of things that youcould never accomplish if you
told people nothing but thetruth, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (39:35):
It's uh challenging because people want there to
people want to believe what theywant to believe.
I mean, uh, I mean, there's alllike, for example, the Jesse
Smollett um kind of matter,right?
Remember that gentleman, right,in Chicago?
He was the the African Americanor part African American actor
who said he was kind of out atlike 3 a.m.

(39:56):
in Chicago and was attacked byTrump supporters who you know
called him racial epithets, andit it the whole story didn't
really add up, and and it youknow, they tr ended up charging
him for falsifying this story,but well, the liberal media went
with it.
And obviously, there's plenty ofstories where conservative media
has gone with with kind of fakestories too, where it's just

(40:19):
like people want to hear thatstuff.
Um, and um but the other thingis to go outside your social
media bubble is is reallyimportant, and having friends
who disagree with you, with whomyou can have political
conversations, if you arecapable, is a really good thing,
and to try to put yoursensitivities on hold and listen

(40:42):
to what they think about it,yeah.
Because if this is your friend,right, you assume you're not
friends with a neo-Nazi or a youknow Marxist, right?
Like, assume that your friend isprobably wants a good society
just like you do, right?
That's why you're friends.
I mean, if they were thathorrible, you wouldn't be
friends with them.
But why is it that they see itso differently than me, right?

(41:04):
When we both probably want 90%of the same things, right?
So I would say, like, listen,and I mean, I've I've many
friends on the far left and thefar right, and and I get along
with them all.

SPEAKER_00 (41:15):
Sure.
Well, I've always, as an actor,one of the things you learn
fairly early on is that no onesees themselves as an
antagonist, you know.
So you can play, and I have youcan play some totally despicable
people, you know, that you know,from the outside you look and
like, oh my God, you know, gee,the guy makes my skin crawl.
But the reality is that thatperson sees all kinds of things

(41:37):
that happened in their life thattotally justify the decisions
that they've made and totallyjustify the way that they
behave, right?
It's just it's the nature ofhuman beings.

SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
So good written show or good written movie, you have
a villain who you understandeven if you despised, yeah,
right.
Yeah, and you have to tohumanize and say, okay, and and
also like you mentioned being anactor, the idea of putting
yourself in that person's shoesof okay, I am this person.

(42:10):
How do I feel right about that?
And most people, unfortunately,really lack that quality.
It's my job to do that, by theway, to understand because part
of taking on a cause isunderstanding the alternative
viewpoint and to really so thatwe can effectively advocate,
because you can really onlyeffectively advocate a cause if

(42:30):
you really thoroughly understandwhat is making people on the
other side be on the other side.
And they're not all just corruptvillains, right?
There are people who havedifferent perspectives, right?
And but you have to put yourselfin their shoes.
And how did I get from where Istarted to having this view?

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
Are there cues in what you do?
Do you think that would help toencourage people to listen to
one another?
Because I I totally agree.
I think part of our issue is wewe have forgotten how to listen,
we've forgotten how to respectthat there are differences.
Um, I was really lucky.
I you know, grew up with a momand dad that taught me to

(43:10):
constantly question everything.
You know, we were RomanCatholic, so you know, people
that would say, yo, you neverquestion a priest, they were
always saying, question thepriest, ask them why they do
that, you know, and then belike, you know, if it's done
respectfully.

SPEAKER_02 (43:25):
Yeah.
If it's not one from, oh, hi,priest, I assume you're like a
child sex offender and a pervand evil and trying to uh strip
women's rights away.
If you if you start with that'swho I assume you are, then
that's not gonna get very far.

SPEAKER_01 (43:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (43:43):
You know, um, but if you start with tell me why, I
mean, actually, interestinglyenough, I was at badge claim,
and randomly enough, a nunstarted talking to me, and I
don't know why she was targetedme, but she was talking to me
about abortion, and she asked memy views on it, and I said I I
tend to be more on the side ofletting people do what they want

(44:06):
with their bodies, you know, butbut I understood her, you know,
that she might think otherwise,and I very much respected that
that point of view, and um anduh and I uh but but I did ask
her, I said, well, as someonewho you know has studied uh
Christianity a little bit, uh sothis is just an example of how

(44:27):
you might have theseconversations.
Um and she initiated, but I didask her this question as someone
who have studies Christianity.
My understanding is Christianitydoes not generally argue for
government policy, they arguefor personal responsibility and
personal decisions, right?
So uh while I I respect that youyourself are anti-abortion, why
would you would you do not seethat your argument is strong by

(44:51):
asking the government to banabortion?
To me, it feels like you concedethat your argument isn't strong
enough to persuade people.
If the why not seek to merely topersuade people, right?
That was my question to her, isthat I have no problem with her
arguing, uh trying to convincewomen not to get abortions.
I totally respect that.

(45:11):
But the ultimate decision in mymind was that it should be in
the woman's decision to do that,right?
But I thought we had a veryrespectful discourse back and
forth.
I mean, I I kind of disagreedwith her position because I tend
to not like the government toforce people to do anything, you
know, and I tend to believe inthe power of argument and
convincing, again, in arespectful manner, right?

SPEAKER_00 (45:33):
Um that seems to be the part that's missing is that
respectful argument.
You know, instead we'redemonizing um uh uh you know
opposition.
I mean, it used to be, right,that the the uh Democrats,
Republicans saw each other asthe opposition, right?
And now we're the enemies, youknow.
Now it's it's you know, the I Idetest that point of view, you

(45:55):
know, the everything from theyou know, maggots on the one
side to the libertards on theother.
You know, it's just that it'sthis whole process of you know
increasingly dehumanizing theother.
And I wonder, you know, how howcan we get back to that sense of
just civil discourse?

SPEAKER_02 (46:11):
Um is the Socratic, what I call the it's I think
it's the Socratic method,basically.
You teach by asking questions,right?
You ask questions and you try tolead people in your direction
and understand that you're notgoing to convince people, but to
say, hey, how do you here's adisconnect that I see, right?
But but if you're framing it asI'm right, you're wrong, here's

(46:32):
why you're wrong.
I find that questions are betterthan statements.
So if you if you have an issuewith how with someone's uh what
someone feels, ask it as aquestion.
For example, you know, uh one ofthe major um uh tendencies of
the MAGA movement has been toroot out sex offenders from the

(46:56):
government, and yet it seems tome that uh there's a protection
of the sex offenders withEpstein case.
Do you see that as a disconnect,or can you explain why you feel
like it's not yeah, which couldbe an very off-putting, right?
But because it's clearly that'sa respectful question.
It's like maybe you're leaveopen to the idea that you might

(47:19):
not understand that perspective.
You see what I'm saying?
Right, right, no, totallyhypothesis.
There's someone on the left isyou you say defund the police,
um, but to me it feels like thatif you had a challenge and if
there were someone who wasthreatening you, would you want
someone to help you who wasarmed and empowered to do that?

(47:43):
Or do you feel like and do youfeel like if there wasn't
anyone, people might take outvigilante action?
And could that actually make usall less safe and actually cause
more oppression of socialjustice that you advocate?

SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (47:57):
You know, that would be a question to the left,
right?
So I have many questions like sohow and how would you how would
you suggest that that this bedone?
And sometimes the mere lack ofhaving an answer is convincing,
right?
Because if they're like, I don'tknow, I'm not a hundred percent
convinced, but let me thinkabout it.
Right, you know, so give someonesomething to think about instead

(48:21):
of being like, wow, that guy wasobnoxious, and I'm even more
firm in my beliefs.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (48:26):
Yeah, I mean, I I keep thinking of that.
I think you're you are um, Itotally agree with the whole
questioning process.
That's why I like the podcastformat, right?
I get to ask a lot of questions,I get to, you know, find out
more about things I don't knowanything about.
Um, that that's just a goodsituation.
I would hope more people woulddo that.
Um, I think where where it getsfuzzy for me is the you know,

(48:48):
what responsibility maybe do wehave or should we take for
making sure that our questions,our you know, perspectives are
as truthful as they can be, aswell as as responsible as they
can be, you know, that uhbecause respect is certainly a

(49:08):
part of asking the question andbeing you know curious,
genuinely curious about whatmakes someone believe the things
that they believe that are youknow antithetical to what I
believe.
I want to understand thatbecause that's the only way to
really come to any kind of uhyou know coalition, if you want
to think of it that way.
Um but I wonder, you know, woulddo we do we have a

(49:29):
responsibility?
Should we be you know carefulabout just saying things for the
the value of the incendiaryquality that those things have,
for the the passion that theywill drive?
Or you know, should we be youknow trying to phrase questions
and trying to present things topeople that will help to elevate

(49:50):
and help them to realize this isa big problem.
We need to talk about this, weneed to be able to respectfully
dialogue.

SPEAKER_02 (49:57):
We should, but one challenge, and I'll admit, we've
like we do campaigns where wesay we don't do incendiary
things, but we say things thatare that that are headline
grabbing, and part of the reasonis that term headline grabbing.
So if you make a nuancestatement, you may not get the

(50:18):
same attention as if you make astrong statement.
So maybe what needs to be doneis we need to figure out a way
to reward nuance and penalizeand penalize in quotation marks
these sort of extremestatements.
Because right now, if you're acommentator and you have some

(50:40):
very radical belief, they'relike, we want you to come on the
news.
If you're not saying somethingradical, then it's like, well,
why do we want you to what do weneed you for?
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
So you know, um yeah, we're sensationalized.

SPEAKER_02 (50:57):
Yeah, so I think that's how I would describe it.

SPEAKER_00 (50:59):
Okay.
We're gonna I can't believe it'sbeen 50 minutes already, but
yeah, obviously we could keeptalking for a long, long time.
Um, but I got I want to wrap up.
Is there something, Adam, thatyou with your work, with the
kinds of things that you'redoing, is there something that
you would hope that when all issaid and done, that people would
be able to look at your work,look at the things that you

(51:20):
you're attempting to do and theservices that you're providing
that you hope that they wouldremember?
You know, uh it's the classicthey come by your gravesite and
they, well, there's Adam Swart.
Yeah, I remember it.
Boy, he was trying, boy, the guyreally tried to do hmm, whatever
the is.

SPEAKER_02 (51:36):
Well, I I have a lot more living that I want to do
because I feel that we've beenvery impactful in the campaigns,
but I have not yet figured outwhat's going to be on my
tombstone uh at this point.
So uh, because the challenge isI don't think I've made the kind
of impact that yet that I'vewant to make.

(51:56):
Okay.
Um you know, uh, I can tell you,I'll tell you one impact one of
my favorite impactful campaignswe've done, and I'll tell you a
couple that I want to do.
Um, one the one of the mosteffective campaigns we've done
was what's called the deleteFacebook movement.
I've kind of ranted about socialmedia companies and it's
sincere, but we've also been uhthere was a movement, you know,

(52:18):
starting about 17, 2017, 2018,2019, basically when it's come
to attention that Facebook'sbeen using this algorithms to
divide people, to, you know,cause which has then caused
genocide, political division,outrage, all kinds of things,
right?
There's this move to uh deleteFacebook, hashtag delete

(52:39):
Facebook, culminating, you know,the stealing of the user data
with the Cambridge Analytica,right?
So uh it basically deleteFacebook.
This is a really bad, badcompany.
And we we did this in it allover the country, but
particularly lately in DC andthe Bay and uh Silicon Valley
and other places.
And uh it actually of coursepeople didn't delete Facebook,

(53:02):
but it actually had the uh uhimpact, which we didn't think
they would, but because thatwasn't the goal.
The goal was to be basicallycritically examine what Facebook
is and the evil that itespouses, right?
And basically that accomplishedtwo things.
Number one, um semantically,they changed their name very

(53:22):
shortly thereafter.
They don't call themselvesFacebook, they call themselves
Meta, right?
Because the Facebook name issynonymous with division and
hate.
That's why they did it, in myopinion.
Um, number two, they endedpolitical advertising.
They've tried to depoliticizeInstagram and Facebook.
Not obviously that's that's along road, and I I'm not giving

(53:43):
them any praise whatsoever.
They don't deserve it, but theyare taking that step toward that
objective, right?
Of basically like we are we wewant to depoliticize our
platform.

SPEAKER_00 (53:57):
And they don't have to, their users do enough of
that for themselves, right?

SPEAKER_02 (54:00):
So right, but we're not going to make it easy for
kind of either foreign countriesor other people to really like
exploit the Facebook network forthat purpose.
So it was extremely impactful.
And now, of course, you haveother networks that have more
political content as a result,but and there's still so much
work to do.
But that was a pretty big impactthat like we had.

(54:21):
So I'm proud of that.
Um, I know time is short, soI'll just tell you one that I
want to do though that I havenot yet done.
Um, is we gotta stop with thepoisoning and death for in the
food industry.
And RFK is a paper tiger.
Um, he's not done anything andhe won't do anything.
Uh, he's neutered.

(54:42):
Um, you need like someone who'sactually sincere about it, and
who's willing to take onMcDonald's and Coca-Cola and
call them out for the uh, I hateto say it, but the murder of
millions of Americans uh throughthe purposeful uh marketing of
uh terror products that arebasically like going to kill

(55:02):
you, right?
The trans fats, the saturatedfats, all that stuff, the the
sugar that's in Coca-Cola.
I mean, they want you to drinkit like it's water, but if you
do, you'll have diabetes by thetime you're my age, um, and uh
probably obesity, hardconditions, right?
I mean, these companies do that,and then they hide behind DEI
and they're like, oh, we'remarketing poison to black

(55:25):
people, and then we but butdon't don't complain because we
have two black women on theboard.
You know what I mean?
Like when when the biggestimpact of McDonald's and
Coca-Cola has fallen on theblack community and uh Latino
community, of course, everyAmerican has been affected
negatively by them, um, otherthan probably their
shareholders.

(55:45):
So I would like to for them toonce and for all, like we talk
about reparations.
I want them to pay reparationsto the victims of their food
over the past however manyyears.
And I want them to commit to Iwant them to essentially be like
a like completely change theirmodels of what they do because

(56:09):
what they do is basically selland distribute poisonous
substances.
Um, and that needs to be uhadvocated and they need to be
called out for the racists thatthey are, um, and kind of
evildoers that they are, in myopinion.

SPEAKER_00 (56:23):
Are you familiar with the uh musical Man of La
Mantra?
And of course, oh yes, of courseto be willing to march into hell
for a heavenly cause.
So this is uh very much awkward.

SPEAKER_02 (56:35):
I think most Americans agree.
Even people I know who areaddicted, I mean, this is a
drug, right?
So so what you have tounderstand is I know many people
who eat these things and drinkthese things, and they don't do
it because they love it, they doit because they're addicted to
it, right?
If you're a crack addict, right,you would want to end your
addiction, but we don'tunderstand these as the same

(56:57):
things, they are addicted to itbecause they put the chemicals
in their stuff that isaddictive, right?
I mean, I don't want to soundlike a crazy person here.
I mean, they but they but thefact that I sound like a crazy
person saying, oh, they put thechemicals in some whack job,
it's like no, they do.
I mean, they these are labtested.
I mean, these companies arebrilliant.

(57:17):
I mean, they test this stuff inlabs to make you want to buy
more.

SPEAKER_00 (57:22):
Well, follow the money, right?
Follow the money for goodnesssakes.

SPEAKER_02 (57:25):
You're gonna do I hope it's not a man of La Mancha
quest because I I truly thinkthat that everyone wants to
wants to like understands it.
Even the people who consumetheir products understand that
what they're doing is evil.

SPEAKER_00 (57:39):
Right, right.
Well, and under yeah, it it'syeah, we have so much of that in
our society, our nation rightnow.
We we could do a whole show onjust talking about those kinds
of exploits and how to examinethem.
But Adam, it's been a just Ican't believe how quickly the
time flew.
So thank you.
Thank you, thank you for yourtime.
Maybe we can get together againat some point.

(57:59):
Uh when things settle down.

SPEAKER_02 (58:00):
Maybe you will, maybe a cinnamon button.

SPEAKER_00 (58:04):
I'll send you some by FedEx from and we can both be
eating them as we're talking.

SPEAKER_02 (58:09):
Would that sound amazing?

SPEAKER_00 (58:12):
That sounds amazing.
Okay, that would be fantastictoo.
Folks, my guest today has beenAdam Swart.
He is the CEO founder of a uh awonderful, I'm gonna call it
crowdsourcing uh company.
So your crowds on demand is thename of the company.
Adam, if they want to know moreabout you, what's the best place
to go to find out more aboutcrowds on demand and about you?

SPEAKER (58:32):
www.crowdsondemand.com, crowdsonmand.com or at CEO Adam
Swart.
We recently deactivated thephone, so you have to email us.
We that we just got too manycrazy crank calls uh coming in.
So we actually recentlydeactivated the mainland.
So you would have to email us,but but please do if you have
questions or or you know feellike we could work together.

(58:54):
But uh mostly um if you havequestions or comments and you
know, happy to come on the showagain and and answer them.
So it's it's my pleasure tospend this past hour with you.

SPEAKER_00 (59:05):
That that would be wonderful.
If nothing else, to so peoplecan see that you don't have
horns.
Uh, you know, you're you're adecent guy trying to do decent
things in an increasinglyindecent world, unfortunately.
But uh thanks again, Adam.
I really appreciate you've beenlistening in frame of reference
profiles and leadership, andhope you've enjoyed uh Adam's
take on leadership because it ityou are in a leadership role and

(59:26):
uh as far as I can see, doingsome admirable things for uh
leading people out of some ofthe present darkness, you know,
which would be great.
Thanks, Adam.
Thanks.