March 22, 2024 • 56 mins
When Mahwish Syed, a beacon of resilience and creativity, graced our studio, she brought with her a tale of triumph that has the power to ignite a transformation within us all. As an award-winning designer and author, she recounts her confrontation with breast cancer and how it became the catalyst for her book "Purgatory to Paradise," a testament to her journey of creating a healing sanctuary at home. Our dialogue traverses beyond her story, extending to the profound impact of our mindset and surroundings on our health, guided by the principles of epigenetics. Mawish's design sensibilities, inspired by films like "A Room With A View" and the Pelican chair, also color our conversation revealing her unique approach to life and wellness.
Transformation is a dance with change, and as Mahwish shares her personal narratives of welcoming her son into the world prematurely and facing the trials of cancer, we uncover the strength that adversity can bestow upon us. The episode weaves through the symbolism of the snake and the myth of Persephone, drawing connections between spirituality and quantum physics, encouraging us to welcome change as a harbinger of growth. We dissect the importance of personal mythology, the acceptance of our darker facets, and the liberation found in weaving our passions into our work, nudging listeners towards a journey of self-discovery and authentic existence.
Our exploration culminates in a contemplation of the spaces we inhabit and how they can be transformed into sources of healing and rejuvenation. I share insights from my design background, challenging what's commonly accepted as 'healthy' and 'environmentally friendly,' and delve into the importance of making conscious lifestyle choices for our health. From the detrimental effects of blue light to the calming influence of our sensory experiences, we examine practical ways to mold our environments to foster well-being. This episode is an invitation to redefine the way we live, interact, and heal in our personal paradises, all while being serenaded by the inspiring journey of Mahwish Syed.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Frame of Reference informed, intelligent
conversations about the issuesand challenges facing everyone
in today's world.
In-depth interviews to help youexpand and inform your Frame of
Reference.
Now here's your host, raulLabres.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, welcome everyone to another edition of
Frame of Reference Profiles inLeadership, and I am excited
today.
This has been just a wonderfulrun of interviews I've been
having lately, because it'speople that I've never met
before.
It's people that have reallyinsightful and you know comments
as well as wonderfulbackgrounds.
So we're doing exactly what Iset out to do with this podcast
(00:43):
from the beginning, and that'sto interview people to give
everyone that listens a newFrame of Reference, and today's
guest is no slouch in that area.
Let me tell you I am so pleasedto be talking with Mawish Syed.
Mawish is a.
I'm going to actually readsomething to you from your
executive summary for Purgatoryto Paradise, because I thought
(01:06):
it was actually.
I liked it better than your bio.
I'm sorry, anyway, because ofwhat it says about you, and
Mawish has written a book calledPurgatory to Paradise.
She is an award-winningdesigner and she celebrates
beauty as a vehicle for healing.
When Mawish was diagnosed withbreast cancer in 2019, she faced
(01:28):
a crossroads.
She could run from the fear,the distress and the ominous
history that word cancer holdsin our imagination, or or she
could walk proudly into theillness and find her way to
wellness, reemerging from herpersonal underworld, empowered
and burnished, like many ofmythology's greatest heroines.
(01:52):
That is just fantastic.
I'm sorry.
I don't think you can get anybetter than that for a theater
person like me, especially rightTo have come forth from your
underworld.
So thank you, mawish, for beingwith us, for coming through
your underworld and taking timeto join us today on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So glad to be with you, Ro.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, mawish, I want to find out a little bit more
obviously a lot more later on,but if you had to just explain,
I kind of called it our elevatorspeech.
So if you're in the elevatorwith someone and they ask you
what do you do, what would beyour response for that?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I transform your health and your home into a
healing oasis.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Boy, that's pretty succinct, In which what if
someone at that point saysuh-huh, and how does that work?
What goes on at that point?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Oh my God, let me show you yeah, let me show you
how to turn your purgatory intoyour paradise.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Excellent.
Well, and there is a.
I saw somewhere else in thenotes that you do talk quite a
bit about epigenetics, so whichI don't know that how many
people will be familiar withthat whole concept.
But there is this scientificrealm, now that has been
explored, where we don't have tochange DNA in order to change
(03:20):
outcomes in our health and evenour psychology of things.
The reality is that ourbehavior, our environment, all
of the things that are thoughtprocesses, all of those tie into
our genes hence the epigeneticsand can turn things on and off.
So which is, you know, brightskies are going to clear up.
(03:41):
Put on a happy face, right, Ithink, of my theater background.
There's a lot of truth to that,and you know, you see people
that are born old, you know, andjust stay old throughout their
lives, and there are others thatnever grow old.
So one has to assume that thereis something different, because
they're both human beings, it'sjust there are other things
(04:02):
that play in this whole process.
So let's see if we can get ahint of what those things are
with you by playing my favoritethings.
Okay, one of these days I'llhopefully have enough money that
I can get Julie Andrewspermission to use her version of
, because it would be justwonderful little intrude.
Well, that, that, that, that.
Anyways, here we go, and Ithink I've explained to you.
(04:23):
This is the Rorschachian, youknow view of things, where I
just throw something out, youthrow it out.
There's no right or wronganswers, there's just the answer
.
Okay, so here we go.
How about we'll start somethingeasy?
How about your favorite song?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Oh my goodness, Lately it's Mysterious Ways by
you Too.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Really Okay, interesting, okay.
How about a favorite recordingartist, as long as we're on that
bent.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Favorite recording artist lately would be Cannons.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Really, I don't know that group at all, so
interesting.
Okay, how about favorite movie?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
A Room With A View by EM Forte.
Really and as a matter of fact,james Ivory and a small
merchant who were the producersand directors I met James Ivory
on Halloween.
Yeah, that was a good time.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That must have been thrilling in so many ways.
Yes, what do you like about themovie?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
A Room With A View.
Oh my gosh.
Well, it is divinely romantic.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And it takes place in Italy and Florence, and it's
really about following yourbliss and taking risks, and
that's really what struck me andhas always struck me.
It's been around for a longtime and it's still a favorite.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, isn't that a 60s or 70s movie?
I'm trying to think 80s.
Is it Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Okay, Well, it's a classic nonetheless.
So I'm glad that those classicsare still alive in folks like
you.
How about, do you have afavorite chair?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Oh, that's a good question.
Hmm, I do like the Pelican.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I like the shape of the Pelican chair.
It's a classic mid-centurychair.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Okay, do you have a favorite one at your home that
you go to that anyone else takesit, you say, out of my chair,
so that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I spend a lot of time at my desk, so it has to be a
comfortable chair.
Okay.
And that's an upholstered chairthat I use.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Okay, there are some.
I know my father-in-law had achair.
He had a lazy boy chair that hehad worked it into his body
form and if you sat in thatchair and he came on, there was
no question, you just got up andmoved to another chair.
So that was, I would say.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I have another one, I just remembered.
It is a 1920s Boudoir chairthat I used in my store and
basically we sat it was a pairand I sat with my brides where
they confessed all theirproblems and issues and
relationship issues and while wewere making their dress.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And yeah, I still have those chairs and now
they're my Boudoir chairs- Well,and you with the design
background I know, with mytheater background too I tend to
think a lot about it's not justabout the function.
The form follows the function,and there are oftentimes forms
that are exquisite and there areother forms that are just very
(07:40):
simple, but all of them can bevery just, alluring.
You know, have an emotionalresponse that comes from I just
find that to be interesting howyou look at the structure of
design and how things proceededthrough history, and there's
really, I think, a fascinatingcorrelation there between what
was going on in the culture andin that part of the world at
(08:01):
that time, and then thefurniture and, of course, the
clothing and all of those thingsthat were part of that.
And everything makes more sensewhen you understand the whole
gestalt, I guess.
Ultimately.
So how about you have afavorite animal?
Snakes, snakes, oh, snakes.
You're not Indiana Jones, thenhe hates snakes.
(08:23):
That's, that's interesting.
Why snakes?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Although I love Indiana Jones, why snakes Snakes
?
I write about this in my book.
I fell in love with snakes whenI was a little girl.
I would sneak out of our housein Pakistan and go to the snake
charmer and watch the cobradance, and I grew up with also
folktales in my family beingtold about snakes and how they
(08:47):
played a part in our family'shistory.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Oh really.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, and by a.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
They're not.
You know, in the Western worldthey're demonized, but in the
Eastern, a lot of the Easternmythology venerate snakes.
They represent female sexuality, immense amount of prosperity
and good fortune and immortality.
Think about the symbol of theUroboros, where the snake's
eating its tail.
This idea of you know,transcending time is something I
(09:18):
also talk about.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Sure, well, it's weird too In Western
civilization even the medicalsign, the sign of doctors, has
the snake intertwined and that,as I understand that, comes from
biblical times where Moses putup the staff that basically, you
know, killed all of the snakesthat were plaguing the people at
the time.
So you know that's it goes wayback with the Western mentality
(09:42):
to have that sort ofdemonization.
Well, I mean the, you know, theserpent in the garden, right, I
mean it's all the way back tothe beginning of things.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So Well, even predating Judeo-Christianity and
I talk about this in my book Ihad the symbol of the caduceus,
of Hermes and the staff ofAsclepius.
The snake is indeed wrappingaround a branch which I think
Christianity ripped off andturned into a whole other story.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Probably, probably.
There's a lot of that crossright pollination of things.
So how about you have afavorite author besides yourself
?
Okay, you can't say yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh my gosh, Joseph Campbell.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Okay, why.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Because he really dealt into the heart of humanity
and realized.
He did comparative studies ofdifferent mythologies and
folklore around the world andcame up with that hero's journey
and I so much relate to him.
I adored that man really.
I loved and he's quoted in mybook too.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Okay, so now are you going to get to meet him too,
like you did with the?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Unfortunately he passed for yeah so.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh well, maybe in the afterlife, that would be nice.
So okay, last question Is therea favorite memory that you have
, a favorite thing that hashappened to you at some point?
That when you run acrosssomething that reminds you maybe
a smell or you know aparticular song, oftentimes I
(11:13):
think for people that when youhave that reminder you can go
back to that place, that memoryand just have a sense of this is
a center point for me.
This is a part of the core ofwho I am and you can celebrate
it if you will.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I love that question, Raul.
I would say it's waking upreally early in the morning in
my grandmother's gardenlistening to the parrots walk
around in the trees and smellingthe jasmine and the roses and
just watering her plants,watering the garden and
listening to the birds.
It's such a fun moment for mychildhood and I do that and, as
(11:51):
a matter of fact, I recreatethat paradise here in New York
City.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Excellent, excellent.
And that's so important toothat we, I think far too often
we don't even take the time tofigure out those moments, you
know, to realize that that is apart of our heritage, our
personal journey, right, and tobe able to celebrate that as
well as just commemorate and bethankful for that.
(12:15):
You know, I think oftentimes wejust we need to spend more time
being thankful period, right.
So well, thank you for yourhonesty with all that.
So let's talk a bit about you.
Have some wonderful talkingpoints, so let me get a better
understanding.
So it sounds like your breastcancer in 2019 was really kind
(12:36):
of a that was a formative, acrucible moment for you.
Have there been things that youthink, even leading up to that
point, that prepared you forthat time?
Because it strikes me that youmade an unusual, it had an
unusual response to thatchallenge and it would.
It seems to me that there hadto have been some preparation
(12:58):
for that to enable you to makethat choice instead of the, you
know, sort of atypical oh whatwas me?
What am I going to do?
My life is over.
You know mentality that oftenhappens.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I was initiated during the birth of my son, raul
.
I had him very early.
He was born three months earlyand I was hospitalized and spent
time in the hospital for amonth before he was born, on bed
rest.
So, yeah, I had always memoment when I was like wait,
(13:31):
what do you mean?
I can't leave, what are youtalking about?
I felt like I was, you know,going to prison, but it was
saving my life and saving hislife.
So, yeah, that perspectivedefinitely helped me understand
that sometimes what appears as acalamity can actually be a
blessing in disguise, and to notthrow literally a pun intended
(13:52):
baby out with a bathwater andsay, oh my God, that's it,
that's over, like my life isover.
No, I looked at cancer as a wayto hmm, well, that had an
interesting turn of events, like, what is this?
What is the universe telling me?
What am I supposed to learnfrom this?
And I started to investigateinstead of just taking it as at
(14:13):
face value.
Okay, that's, yeah, life as Iknew it was definitely over.
But again, like that oroboros,like the snake, we have that
ability to shed our skins andstart all over again, and that's
why I think the symbolism ofthe snake is such an important
thing for me because I reallywas shedding during chemo and
(14:34):
radiation and all the cancertreatment, the allopathic
treatment, where I was literallyshedding skins and coming out
as the goddess once more.
But if you look at any ancientmythology, any kind of hero's
journey, there's always anobstacle that the hero has to
overcome.
(14:54):
You are not, you know, you justaren't handed this.
Okay, you're great.
No one has to become greatright, and one has to go through
that crucible, that process,that challenge, and come out the
other side transformed.
Really, you are no longer theperson you are and I think
that's a really healthy thing todo.
(15:16):
It's a healthy thing to embracethat change.
And I think sometimes we'reafraid of change.
Sometimes it takes somethinglike cancer to make us change,
unfortunately, and I hope youknow for people that they don't
need to go through that in orderto come to that conclusion.
But I think it's reallyimportant to recognize that each
and every single one of us hasthat opportunity today to change
(15:39):
.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, well, and in fact, the only things that don't
change are dead right.
I mean, when you come to thinkof it, I oftentimes will
challenge friends of mine thatsay I don't like surprises, and
I think to myself how did youget out of bed this morning?
You know, because everything,everything that happens any day,
even if you have a routine,it's still a surprise.
(16:00):
It's something that you haven'tdone before, you haven't done
it that way at that time,whatever before.
So our response is critical,right, yeah?
So how do you, how do youmaintain that?
I think you know, a lot oftimes we do have this.
I would call it like the higherself, right, the, the, the self
(16:23):
that sees a perspective that infact pushes us or, you know,
pulls us, if need be, towards,you know, a higher level of
thinking, a higher level ofhoping, of dreaming.
You know all of those things.
How do you?
Do you have a secret sauce, ifyou will, to maintain that
perspective for yourself?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, her name is Persephone.
She is the goddess Persephonethat I write about in my book
and she's been around since Iwas nine years old when I
discovered her in my Montessorischool third grade class, and I
think what really resonated forme about her is the idea that
she goes into her underworld andshe comes out the other side.
(17:08):
She's one of two gods, olympiangods, who's able to kind of
commute between life and death,and it's not lost on me that I
ended up designing Persephoneseries.
When I was doing fashion, hadmy dress shop downtown, I did a
whole Persephone series and whothe hell knew that I was
actually going to become her.
And I think the symbol of whoshe is and what she represents
(17:31):
for me really helps guide mebecause she allows me to look
past the surface of things.
I mean, I'm the type of personwho believes more in the unseen
than the seen role that's reallyimportant to recognize, because
the idea of Maya, the idea thatthe world is an illusion, that
there's a plasticity as well anda neuroplasticity, the ability
(17:57):
for us to evolve and shift Ithink that's really rooted in
who we are on a much spiritualand deep biological level as
well.
That's something I speak to inmy book.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Boy, you know.
And it gets into a whole bunchof different things that are
going on in all sorts of domains.
I think every time someonestarts talking about things of
that nature, I think, well gosh,isn't that just the same thing
as quantum physics and the waythat they're trying to explore
this whole idea of the quantumdimensions, the idea of quantum
(18:32):
computing, that something is notjust a yes or a no.
It's also both the idea thatyou can have something working
at that speed to see allpossibilities and from all of
those possibilities choose onethat makes the most sense or
will cause you to arrive at therequested solution.
(18:56):
I love that Persephone has beensuch a personal marker or
personal hero heroine of yours.
That speaks volumes about you.
Honestly, anyone that wants togo ahead read, go on Wikipedia.
If I know about Persephone, sheis a rock and gal.
Let me tell you in a lot ofways.
(19:16):
What about Persephone'schallenges?
Do you identify with those?
I mean her journey through theunderworld as I remember it and
it's been a long time, sorry,it's fraught with a lot of nasty
stuff or things that she has toreally wrestle with her own
(19:40):
psyche.
Ultimately, I guess that's howI think of it at least.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
That's a really interesting way of putting it,
because one of the things I talkabout is to embrace your shadow
and the idea that your shadowand all the bits of you that we
like to shovel under the carpet,so to speak, they still are
part of us, To embrace the fullspectrum of our beingness, and I
(20:08):
think that's really importantto recognize especially the
shadow side of life, which isdeath.
I think a lot of people stillare in this weird construct like
death is going to happen toother people and not me.
We're all going to die at somepoint.
To face our own death in a waythat is graceful is really
important.
Back to what you just hit uponand made me laugh when you were
(20:33):
talking about quantum physics.
I designed a clothingcollection inspired by Brian
Green's Elegant Universe.
Oh really.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, does Brian know this?
Because I would think he'd beall over that.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right yeah.
And also I'm certified inquantum biology.
Oh really.
That's what I'm weaving into mydesigns right now, Raul.
Okay, wow.
I have a strong science brainand an art brain.
They're really equally balanced, equally just like life and
death.
So this idea of our shadow,it's really important to explore
(21:09):
because when I'm working withclients, design clients who are
afraid to really choose thatthing that gives them joy, like
the way you were asking thequestions what's your favorite?
This, what's your favorite that?
I asked them that and it'salmost like a pre-prescribed,
like oh, I should like thisbecause that's what's in fashion
, or I should like that becausethat's the in artist.
(21:31):
I'm like, no, what do youreally like?
It's not about trends, it's notabout what's in fashion, it's
not what your neighbors have oryou're so-and-so you're a
fashionable friend whatever.
What do you like?
Right.
Let's discover that this stuffrole has been shoved into the
dark, into the closet, into likeit's put away.
(21:52):
And let me tell you as I getolder, the more, the older I get
, the more childlike I get.
The older I get, the more I get, you know, like back to the
embracing the inner child and me, like what would my
six-year-old you know Mahoshwant?
What would she have done?
Like I have recreated mygrandmother's garden in my
(22:15):
apartment in New York City.
I have a parakeet that fliesaround.
I've had five.
I had like talking birds, Ihave had like all sorts of flora
and fauna.
I have a present here and youcan see a little one here.
But like I have all thatScented orchids, orchids that
smell like coconuts.
(22:35):
You know, like I use fragranceas a part of creating that whole
sensory experience in my design.
And that's important becauseit's linked to memory.
It's a very primal sense.
So I think the older I get, themore I reclaim my innocence,
(22:58):
which is important.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Boy.
You know, I think of youmentioned Judeo-Christian.
I think of the story of Christsaying unless you be as one of
these, when the children wouldrun to him, you shall not see
the kingdom of heaven.
You know, and I've believed inthat for a long time.
Just because when I direct, youknow, one of the first things I
(23:21):
talk to with casts is why doyou think they call it a play?
You know, and getting back intouch with the fact that the
only way that we're really goingto get at the root of what this
play is about it, what thecenter story is of this, is if
we learn to play again and trydifferent things and see what
will fit correctly or what fitsmost comfortably for you, and
(23:45):
make sense of this whole journey.
It's a fascinating thing to getpeople to rediscover their
childhood.
And you have to be brave, right?
I mean, when I think about thewhole idea of you know, facing
the world and saying, yeah, Imight my wife and daughter go
(24:05):
crazy cuz they watch.
You know, like project runwayand I'll see the stuff come down
the alley, like that is thestupidest thing I've ever said.
Like dad Draw, that's so instyle right now.
What do you don't know whatyou're talking about?
Like, I do know what I'mtalking about.
I think that looks stupid, I'msorry.
I know what I'm talking about.
I think it looks stupid and forme it does, so I'm sorry about
(24:28):
the people of it.
That's the way, it is okay.
And having the courage to dothat right to say you know, I'm
sorry, just in my cup of tea.
So right, and that's okay.
There has to be room fordifferent cups of tea.
If there isn't, then why are webothering?
So so then you end up makingthis transformation you have.
This is really horrible,crucible thing.
(24:51):
I mean, breast cancer is anawful thing for any woman to
have to deal with, you know, andI mean cancer in general, but
of course is a problem.
But there there are particulartrials, I think, with breast
cancer and there that I can'tspeak personally to, but it
seems like there's a kind of aspecial or use a unique
experience.
(25:11):
Did you?
Did you find, as you were goingthrough that, that you were
trying to be this is how you'regonna feel and you need to feel
this way, and now this is whatyou have to deal with?
Or were you like no, no, I'm,I'm not going down that path.
I've got my own pathway hereand I'm sticking to it.
And how did you do that?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I had someone close to me saying why aren't you
scared, why aren't you depressed?
I'm sorry for you to say, isthat what I want me to feel?
And so I think is weird thing.
I'm like, no, I'm actuallyhaving.
(25:49):
If I can find my divinealignment and grace in something
like this, shouldn't youcelebrate that, shouldn't you?
And be like, wow, she's, he'sgot it?
It's sometimes.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
what I've discovered is that people need you to feel
weak so they can feel strongyeah, yeah, I can see Well there
, envious of the fact that youare able to stay strong, right?
I mean that that makes themfeel weak then.
That they were not able to dothat or this doesn't make sense.
How can you not do that?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
everyone does this, right, so see the thing,
comparison is the thief of joyand I believe that.
But I'm not comparing myself toanyone's experience.
It's my experience.
And for those people who hadthe privilege, to you know, walk
that that length of that pathwith me and to turn around and
(26:41):
say things like why aren't youlike sad, like I am sad, I'm
just handling my sadness.
And design, I'm designingspaces, I'm redesigning my
apartment, like that's what getsme, like I needed a bone to
chew.
That was how I expressed thatright.
So I will to channel my mysadness.
(27:04):
Like some people work out, Icouldn't work out.
Like I worked out every day andI couldn't.
I wasn't allowed to work outfor for a couple of years there,
which is really tough.
And back to something that'sreally important for me to
mention row, cancer changes yourself perception can.
Cancer changes your appearance,right.
(27:25):
And if we're living in asociety that judges our self
worth Based on how we look,right, speaking a project runway
, I mean life is a runway, right.
Life is a way of like oh well,she's looking bad.
Well, she's never gonna lookthat good again, right.
And what if I can come backstronger and better than even
before cancer?
(27:45):
What if I look back at pictures, my camera recognizes me as
three different women.
You know I phone has like thefacial recognition.
It has me separated from thewoman I was before cancer, the
woman I was during cancer andnow the woman I am now.
Can you believe it?
It's crazy so that speak to thatlevel of transformation and
(28:07):
it's really important torecognize and this is a huge
part of what I do beauty ishealing and the kind of beauty
I'm speaking about it's notskinny, it's not about how we
look, it's about how we feel.
Okay, it's divine grace.
Beauty is our birth right.
It is rooted in our divinity.
(28:28):
It's rooted in us.
I'm a quantum level.
Speaking of beauty from aquantum level, that is cellular
alignment, cellular harmony,resonance with your, with your
truth, with your people that youlove in your home.
That is the true beauty.
And how can I create beauty ona cellular level so that I can
(28:53):
heal and come back stronger?
I look better than before?
Those were the kinds of thingsthat I was channeling.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why it was so beautiful about it to is here
you are, in the midst of a verydark portion of any person's
life, to be fighting a lifethreatening disease that you
know what.
Twenty, thirty years ago, theprognosis would have been well
nice, knowing you and to face itwith a creative spirit to face
(29:24):
it with, which is usually.
I think the only combat againstdarkness is light.
I mean, you can't, you can sitaround in darkness and complain
about how dark things are, but,for goodness sakes, we found a
way to make fire and ever sincethen we found security in light.
So find light.
And I don't know as an artistmyself, I don't know of a better
(29:47):
way To find light than toengage your creative self,
because it's always enlighteningto do that.
So, if you may not have, youknow out in the world, but it is
enlightening to us personallyto choose to use that tool, that
that inner, inner light, tochange and cast a different
(30:11):
light to the world around us.
Right, including the peoplethat are saying why are you sad?
Well, because I'm choosing away of life instead of a way of
responding, you know, to life.
Anyways, that's, that's whatyou get me thinking about.
So I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I love it.
I love it and, as you aretalking, by the way, again to
bring back science into this,our bodies actually in mid light
.
We just don't have the sense ofDavid to see it, but we are
electromagnetic beings, we havelight, we actually produce light
, we are light beings and it'sso interesting that you know I'm
(30:47):
not sugarcoating, you know mycancer experience.
I'm not saying it was all likethat.
You know a walk in the park andthere was a lot of grief
attached to it, there was a lotof sadness and there was a lot
of Anger, and you know theseless than pretty emotions.
I just channel them.
I'm not saying that I didn'thave those emotions and I want
to make that distinction, butthat I chose to turn my straw
(31:12):
into gold.
I spun something new out of itthat, again, unless we're faced
with that thing, I don't know ifit's going to be the same for
anyone else.
Once you're faced with certainchallenges, it's really your
choice.
At the end of the day, it'syour decision, and that's why I
feel like it's so important totalk about and speak to mindset.
(31:34):
Once I decided that I wasn'tgoing to allow this to become my
whole identity, that this wassomething I was going to use and
research and investigate andfigure out what I have to learn
from this.
How can I, how can I make thisbetter for me?
And I didn't have the answers,I didn't know that all this
beauty was on the other side.
But I started to listen to myenergy ps roll because I hadn't
(31:58):
been cancer before cancer.
I was like cori.
Cori is the name of herstephanie before she became per
sepani.
Per sepani was only named aftershe went into her darkness,
after she went into herunderworld.
She was innocent.
She was an innocent,uninitiated maiden and that was
her name.
(32:18):
Cori was the innocent part ofher and I definitely recognize
the part of me that was notinitiated, that function from an
unconscious level, and I'm ableto see that.
I think it's really important torecognize the parts of us that
we didn't are the things that wedidn't realize for ourselves.
And suddenly, when somethingclicks and you're like, oh, this
(32:40):
was not just me before cancer,this is before me, like me
before the woke up, me before Irealized, you know, that what I
was living in was actually verytoxic, me before I realized that
I was being manipulated andabused.
So it's All of these things,and I think one one thing that
(33:04):
stops us from actually admittingthat to ourselves Is our ego.
We don't want to feel like wedidn't know something, and I
think that's crazy because I'mthe first person admit I don't
know about that.
The older I get, the more easyit is for me to say yeah, let me
, let me get back to you.
(33:24):
Not so, I'm not so sure, yetI'm not so sure.
Let me, let me figure that out,instead of like feeling like I
have to come up with the answers.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, why would you want to do that?
I've never quite understood thearrogance that presumes I
should know this.
Why should you know that?
Why, why?
Why would you not instead wantto admit that you don't know it
and then learn it?
I mean, if you didn't trust you, if you would like to know the
answer, that then go learn it.
But to just expect that allyeah, yeah, yeah.
(33:53):
That's what I think in socialmedia I find so amusing is all
these people are becomingexperts on things and no one
ever challenges to say I'mexcuse me, but this guy really
studied it or this womanactually does it, and that's not
true.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, that's a good point.
That's a really good point.
Yeah, it's very interestingfunctioning from you know, I use
the word and I use the wordauthenticity in my subtitle
authenticity is being able toadmit you don't know.
Authenticity is being able tosay yeah, I'm not sure if this
is gonna work out, but I'm gonnado this anyway because it feels
(34:31):
right right, give it a shot.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
so yeah, what is that ?
Since you know you after tenthousand tries with a different
filaments, and someone asked Now, aren't you kind of ashamed
that you have ten thousandthings and you haven't been
successful, and why?
Now I know ten thousand thingsthat absolutely won't work.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
so yeah, I mean, I fail so many times.
It's, it's failure in a lot ofways.
Has taught me, has been a veryinfluential teacher, and you
know those people who don't tryit all.
It's.
Yeah, it's safe, but, as Iwrite in my book, that safety is
(35:10):
actually what's killing us.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It suffocates you over time when you don't Break
out right, I actually had aguest, not just a little while
ago, talking about how he tookhis daughter to a butterfly
exhibit at a local museum, Ithink it was, and his daughter
was quite young at the time andnoticed that there was this one
(35:35):
butterfly in a chrysalis thatwas breaking out of the
chrysalis and was really, ofcourse, struggling just you know
the effort of trying to get outof that chrysalis.
It was so difficult for abutterfly.
And his daughter asked himDaddy, why doesn't someone help
that butterfly?
And he said very wisely well,sweetheart, if the butterfly
doesn't work, doesn't developthe muscles, doesn't end up
(35:57):
having that the substances thatneed to be transformed into the
wing or transferred into thewings, they won't survive.
So it's that struggle thatactually gets them to the point
where they can fly and be thebeautiful butterflies that we
all appreciate so much.
And I think we so much want tojust avoid the struggle.
You know, it's just like nowthe struggle, the struggle is
(36:17):
icky.
I don't want to feel bad.
I really, when I hear peoplesay I don't want to feel bad, I
feel like how shallow are you?
I mean, it's just, you know.
And then the people that reallydrive me nuts are the.
You know the Christians thatI've known who have something
horrible happen to them, and Iget it.
You know a son is killed in ahorrible car accident.
Awful things, awful, awfulthings.
(36:40):
They become just so embitteredand so nasty and so like okay,
god put them up.
And I think you know there is aperson that never had to go
through any fire, and fire iswhat turns gold into gold.
You have to be, you know,sifting and winnowing.
I mean you look, any sciencefield you look at historically,
(37:02):
there is always a refiningprocess that happens to make
something that was originallyflawed into a more perfect form.
So when we challenge, when we,as you say, I mean you're
bracing that shadow side, right,the shadows are incredibly
important for knowing our fulldimensionality, right, a thing
(37:24):
that is not lit in a way thatshows its shadows is not
three-dimensional.
So I don't know.
There's a lot you're getting methinking about.
So I'm sorry, this is supposedto be an interview with you, not
me spouting off.
So anyway, I wanted to talkabout the epigenetics, because
we mentioned that early on thatyou, you discovered through this
(37:47):
process that there areepigenetic effects of design and
emotions on health.
So how do you balance that,those sort of scientific
insights, with the artistic andintuitive aspects of design and
creating, creating, you know,these kind of healing spaces, if
you will?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Thank you for that question.
Let's put it in a veryinteresting analogy If
epigenetics, if your, your genes, are the home that you have and
you walk into that home and youcan turn on the light switch or
you don't have to right you candecide to paint it as something
(38:27):
a different color, you candecide to cover it with toxins,
but basically we have thatagency with our own bodies, if
your body is your home, to turnon and off those parts of us
that are there.
That's like the blueprint,right, that's the basic
blueprint, but we have theability to create healing for
(38:48):
ourselves.
And this is where the sciencegets into place in terms of
really simple auditing a home.
So I have a list where I lookat all the things that I looked
at, from my kitchen to the potsand the pans that I was eating
off of, to the synthetics thatyou know were possibly causing
(39:08):
all sorts of problems, and thematerials that we use, the
things that we inhale, that weare a living ecosystem, our
porous beings.
There's a communicationhappening between us and our
environment.
That's what epigenetics is.
Most cancers, I would say 75%,are now discovered as a
byproduct of your environmentand your lifestyle.
(39:32):
Okay, that's great news.
That's actually great newsbecause that way we have agency.
We have the ability to makethose changes.
Now, where to start right?
And that's where I startedusing my design background and I
said, okay, let me researchthis.
I'm a materials consultant forarchitectural firms.
(39:53):
I look at things that I amconstantly looking at different,
new ways to do things.
Why not look at it through thecancer lens and say, oh, is this
good?
I just want to make adistinction role.
What's touted, what's marketedas good for the environment
isn't necessarily good for ourhealth.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I'm like, oh, green design, green design, green
design, oh so great.
No, it's not.
I'm looking at it from.
Is it good for me?
Is it good for you?
Not just good for theenvironment?
And speaking of quantum biology, I discovered the fact that now
they're linking breast cancerespecially, too, because it's a
hormonal cancer to getting thewrong light at the wrong time,
(40:37):
light that is, from your TVscreen, from your iPad, from
your phone, especially afternighttime, when the sun sets.
Blue light is considered toxic.
It's a toxin because, our bodyis a photoreceptor.
Our whole entire body is aphotoreceptor.
(40:58):
We are photosynthesizing beings, and I'm not just talking about
what's lights coming in throughyour eyes.
Your skin is a photoreceptorand that blue light.
You might wear glasses to blockthe blue light, but your skin
is still being affected and onyour body, still internalizing
that blue light.
So how do I design from thatperspective?
(41:20):
Oh my God, I can go down arabbit hole.
I have so many great tips forthat, so many great tips for
that.
So that's just one aspect.
Even food, the food that we eat, is so important and what most
people don't realize I mean,everyone's talking about losing
(41:40):
weight, losing weight andlooking great.
Well, guess what?
If you ate the right things,you wouldn't have to try so hard
.
You would.
Just Our bodies.
The beautiful, divine design ofour bodies is that we are
always seeking to heal ourselvesand we're always seeking
homeostasis, and homeostasis isoptimal health.
(42:01):
So if we can help ourselvesmaintain that homeostasis,
modern life right now isactually pushing us away from
homeostasis, and that's what Ilove doing is speaking to this.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, I think honestly, since probably the
beginning of the industrialevolution, it's been an
increasingly forceful push awayfrom homeostasis.
The agrarian lifestyle wasprobably the last bastion of
that sort of thing and eventhat's been totally attacked on
so many levels.
You also have started a wholeseries of workshops for cancer
(42:44):
survivors and administrators andwhatnot.
That are from what I can tell.
I mean after talking with youmore I can't see how they
couldn't be transformative.
Can you give an example of howyour design techniques have
informed that in ways that youare sort of able to get people
(43:07):
to turn on their light bulbwithout blue light of course,
but turn on their yellow lightbulb, and make that work for
them?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Sure.
So the healing power of beautyand I can, there's a workshop
I've done and it's been verysuccessful is looking at your
space through your five senses,right?
So say, for example, you're inyour bedroom, what's the first
thing you see when you wake upin the morning?
Okay, just simple as that.
(43:35):
And what is your lighting likewhen you go to bed?
Is it toxic blue light?
Or you do have a TV in yourbedroom.
So that's like from the senseof vision, right, what you see
when you wake up and what yousee when you go to bed.
What do you feel?
What are your sheets like?
What are you touching?
What are you wearing againstyour skin?
(43:57):
Does it feel good?
Is it the right material?
Is it a synthetic?
Is it something that is goingto be in tune with your
frequency?
So there's that.
And then there's scent.
What does your bedroom smelllike?
Do you let it candle?
Is it something that evokesthat memory, like I said about
(44:18):
my grandmother's garden it's Ilove Jasmine.
Do you smell that scent beforeyou go to sleep?
What is your bedtime ritual?
Do you have one?
Let's create one.
What does that look like?
You know, things like that, Ithink, are really important.
Music sound?
Are you listening to thewaterfall or the ocean?
(44:39):
Or the Twitter of birds in a?
Forest.
Or is it your favorite music,Like you asked me who my
favorite artist is right.
Am I listening to the soundtrackover a room with a view?
Am I listening to opera atnight?
Let's set the tone.
We're really we're creatures ofhabit.
So I think it's reallywonderful to create these
(45:00):
rituals that becomes yourhealing sanctuary and that also,
on a biological level, sets youfor deep rest.
Right, are you watching?
Like I always tell my son, it'sreally important that you not
watch anything violent beforeyou go to sleep.
You know anything that youwatch, you can't remove that.
(45:20):
It becomes a part of yoursubconscious.
So be very guarded about whatyou allow yourself to see.
He already does that normally.
But, like you know, if newsgets you upset, don't watch CNN
before going to sleep.
Like things, like simple,little things like that.
To start really creating,curating your experiences at
(45:44):
home.
I mean the crooked, no high endhotels and spas know this right
.
They know this.
When you go into a lobby andyou smell that candle and it
reminds you of the four seasonsoh my God, it's always smells so
good.
Why not create the four seasonsin your bedroom?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
What that's crazy talk.
So, yeah, boy, it's interestingthat you know all the stuff
you're talking about and the waythat you know you're lighting
up as you talk about it.
I suspect it's because it's allso human, human, it's all so
humanizing to do that and yetour whole world these days is so
(46:26):
dead set against peopleattaining that.
You know, we poo-poo it, we tryto otherize people that adopt
that mindset.
It's like there's a spiritualwar against this mentality, this
, you know, shaping of reality,and it makes me wonder, you know
(46:50):
, what is going to be the light,what's going to be the click,
because I would like to thinkthat virtually everyone can make
this, you know, dynamic, thisquantum shift.
I think we all are gifted withthe capability of doing it.
I just, I wish there was a wayto turn it on for other people.
(47:12):
You know that they wouldsomehow.
You know you had an on-offswitch for others that you could
say okay, because, like all thehate and the polarization
that's going on right now, Ireally think we become addicted
as a culture to animosity andhatred and, you know, just
putting other people down sothat we feel better about
ourselves and conformationalbiases become, you know, the
(47:33):
next greatest drug kind of.
So we have to have an antidotefor that, and it strikes me that
art and beauty and design arethat antidote.
So how do we inject it?
You know what's the vaccinethat would do that?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
That's funny.
You just reminded me I have aline and I wrote a line in my
book is that we vaccinateourselves against uncertainty.
I think the polarization Raulcomes from trying to vaccinate
ourselves against a level ofuncertainty.
The fact that that we're tryingto otherwise is causing
separation, and in order tocause separation we have to
(48:12):
otherwise.
And I think that level oftriangulation that's happening,
whether it's political, whetherit's societal, on all those
levels I think.
When I look at it, I'm like,hmm, so whoever's doing this is
going to benefit from thisconflict, right?
What are the benefits andwhat's the benefit for?
Speaker 2 (48:33):
them.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
There's always the benefit.
There's an agenda for it I mean, nothing just happens on its
own.
It's placed and orchestratedand then, you know, created.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's designed, yes yes, it's bad design, but it's
designed so naughty design.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
So stepping back from that.
We have the ability Number oneit's reconnection with yourself.
If you're disconnected fromyourself, then you're going to
try to use otherness to createthat level of significance.
If you're able to feelsignificant within yourself,
that's the stepping stone and Ithink self empowerment as he has
(49:22):
.
That might sound, but what Itruly mean with that is
reconnecting with your shadow,reconnecting with the six year
old Raoul, and being able tofunction from there, function
from that level of innocence andwonder, right and open, open
porosity.
I think it's so interestingthat we are porous.
(49:45):
Biologically speaking, we'reporous beings and that level of
porosity should extend to ourhearts too.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
And our minds and our spirit and our interactions
with people.
Porosity is a beautiful thingbecause water passes through
porous materials and withoutwater we can live.
Without water for what?
Three days?
We live about food for months.
You know it's just howimportant is water, folks.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
You know that there's a fourth phase of water.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Did you know?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
I did not oh yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
The fourth phase of water is is liquid crystal,
which LCD technology has already.
They figured this out, so theyhave electrified.
We share the same technologiesare TVs.
So we have this type ofstructured water within us which
serves as an, as an antenna,and that's why I'm so adamant
about Wi-Fi and then being ableto turn down the electrical
(50:45):
charge of things, because we're,our bodies, are being robbed of
electrons from all our devicesand we have to maintain a
certain charge for optimal waterporosity to go in and out and
for nutrients to go in and outof ourselves.
Sorry, I'm going down therabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
No, that that you know that I keep thinking when
you're talking about that, Ikeep thinking Tesla.
I suspect that that hassomething to do with what Tesla
saw in his you know idiocy ofgeniusness, right, he just what
a wonderful you know illuminatedI think he actually made, makes
(51:21):
Einstein look kind of dumb, butit which is saying something,
right, but there is a Tesla wasonto that same sort of thing of
there being energy everywhereand just learning how to see
that energy is is the next bigpart of the journey.
You know that we're we can'teven define it because it's so
(51:41):
different from the way thatwe're thinking and we're we've
been conditioned to think it's.
It takes a whole newsensibility and you know sort of
the things we're talking aboutthere requires a sensibility as
well towards you know, I canchoose a way of death and
darkness or I can choose a wayof light and health and design.
(52:02):
Yeah.
That's an important lesson foranyone, right?
So?
Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, beauty from a, from a quantum level again, is
really about living in balancewith your darkness, living in
balance with the fact that weall will die and to live our
life.
And I think for me, it informsme in such a way where I make my
decisions from a place of what?
(52:31):
What have I got to lose?
You know, I tell my son, youknow, go and ask whatever you
need.
To ask that question.
He's like I don't want to soundstupid and I'm like no, but
like if you don't ask, then atleast 50% of the answer might be
yes, you might be able to getit.
You might be able to try, likewhy not give yourself that
chance, give yourself thepermission to just try something
?
It's better to try than to noteven and never know that you
(52:54):
could have succeeded.
Like what's the point, afterall?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Right, right, right.
Stupid is not knowing theanswer.
Stupid is not wanting to knowthe answer.
So, and that that's somethingI've tried to teach my kids,
I've tried to teach other people.
It's just like you're notstupid because you don't know
the answer, but you will bestupid if you don't want to know
the answer.
So just you know.
(53:18):
Just get that through our headsplease, moesh.
There's so much more to talkabout.
Moesh, I'm so sorry that weonly have I mean, we're already
at an hour here and I make mypromise to my guests I won't
take more than an hour becauseit's not fair.
But I hope we can please findanother time to talk again.
I would love to continue theconversation because there is so
(53:40):
much more just in your talkingpoints that I never even got to.
You have like 11 questions.
I think I've got like one and ahalf answered, so, but oh,
that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
That's a good thing because that's a sign that you
know you liked and were inspiredto share.
You know your perspective and Ivalue that very much.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Well, thank you very much, Folks, my guest today has
been Moesh Syed.
Moesh is a Moesh, I'm sorry.
Moesh is an author.
She is a inspirer, a designer.
She has written a book right APurgatory to Paradise.
This book Is that available onAmazon?
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Is that something that people yeah, it's on Kindle
, Amazon and on Audible.
If you like to listen and playit in your car or while you're
cooking, you can do that too.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Excellent, and if people want to find out more,
you have a website rightwwwclaimyourparadisecom.
Yes.
And what sorts of things dopeople find that they go there?
Speaker 3 (54:40):
Oh my gosh, I have courses, I have audit lists for
your home, I have designmasterclasses, like my top three
lessons to transform your spaceright here, right now.
Your paradise is all about yournow beauty.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
They can get in contact for you.
I'm assuming that would bepossible through there too.
Yeah and no go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Oh, Instagram is Mahwish.
Underscore Syed underscoredesigns.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
And Mahwish Syed designs on Facebook right, yes,
okay, linkedin, I mean you're onall of that.
I don't see TikTok anymore.
Where's TikTok?
Speaker 3 (55:21):
I'm on TikTok too, just you know very small.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I'm not on TikTok.
I can't even get Instagramworking.
I'm like, I don't know, I justI guess I'm getting too old for
some of this stuff.
Maybe I'll hire some youngassistant that can just go do
that for me, so that would begood.
So, anyways, well, thank you somuch, mahwish.
I really appreciate your time.
It's so wonderful getting tomeet you and folks.
(55:45):
I hope you've enjoyed myconversation with Mahwish as
much as I've enjoyed it,although you'd be hard pressed
to do that.
So, and I thank everyone fortuning in here on Frame of
Reference Profiles andLeadership, and I hope we've
given you another wonderfulprofile to think about, consider
and maybe just try this way ofthinking.
Okay, take care, see you nextweek.
Welcome to Frame of Reference informed, intelligent
conversations about the issuesand challenges facing everyone
in today's world.
In-depth interviews to help youexpand and inform your Frame of
Reference.
Now here's your host, raulLabres.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, welcome everyone to another edition of
Frame of Reference Profiles inLeadership, and I am excited
today.
This has been just a wonderfulrun of interviews I've been
having lately, because it'speople that I've never met
before.
It's people that have reallyinsightful and you know comments
as well as wonderfulbackgrounds.
So we're doing exactly what Iset out to do with this podcast
(00:43):
from the beginning, and that'sto interview people to give
everyone that listens a newFrame of Reference, and today's
guest is no slouch in that area.
Let me tell you I am so pleasedto be talking with Mawish Syed.
Mawish is a.
I'm going to actually readsomething to you from your
executive summary for Purgatoryto Paradise, because I thought
(01:06):
it was actually.
I liked it better than your bio.
I'm sorry, anyway, because ofwhat it says about you, and
Mawish has written a book calledPurgatory to Paradise.
She is an award-winningdesigner and she celebrates
beauty as a vehicle for healing.
When Mawish was diagnosed withbreast cancer in 2019, she faced
(01:28):
a crossroads.
She could run from the fear,the distress and the ominous
history that word cancer holdsin our imagination, or or she
could walk proudly into theillness and find her way to
wellness, reemerging from herpersonal underworld, empowered
and burnished, like many ofmythology's greatest heroines.
(01:52):
That is just fantastic.
I'm sorry.
I don't think you can get anybetter than that for a theater
person like me, especially rightTo have come forth from your
underworld.
So thank you, mawish, for beingwith us, for coming through
your underworld and taking timeto join us today on the show.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So glad to be with you, Ro.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, mawish, I want to find out a little bit more
obviously a lot more later on,but if you had to just explain,
I kind of called it our elevatorspeech.
So if you're in the elevatorwith someone and they ask you
what do you do, what would beyour response for that?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I transform your health and your home into a
healing oasis.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Boy, that's pretty succinct, In which what if
someone at that point saysuh-huh, and how does that work?
What goes on at that point?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Oh my God, let me show you yeah, let me show you
how to turn your purgatory intoyour paradise.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Excellent.
Well, and there is a.
I saw somewhere else in thenotes that you do talk quite a
bit about epigenetics, so whichI don't know that how many
people will be familiar withthat whole concept.
But there is this scientificrealm, now that has been
explored, where we don't have tochange DNA in order to change
(03:20):
outcomes in our health and evenour psychology of things.
The reality is that ourbehavior, our environment, all
of the things that are thoughtprocesses, all of those tie into
our genes hence the epigeneticsand can turn things on and off.
So which is, you know, brightskies are going to clear up.
(03:41):
Put on a happy face, right, Ithink, of my theater background.
There's a lot of truth to that,and you know, you see people
that are born old, you know, andjust stay old throughout their
lives, and there are others thatnever grow old.
So one has to assume that thereis something different, because
they're both human beings, it'sjust there are other things
(04:02):
that play in this whole process.
So let's see if we can get ahint of what those things are
with you by playing my favoritethings.
Okay, one of these days I'llhopefully have enough money that
I can get Julie Andrewspermission to use her version of
, because it would be justwonderful little intrude.
Well, that, that, that, that.
Anyways, here we go, and Ithink I've explained to you.
(04:23):
This is the Rorschachian, youknow view of things, where I
just throw something out, youthrow it out.
There's no right or wronganswers, there's just the answer
.
Okay, so here we go.
How about we'll start somethingeasy?
How about your favorite song?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Oh my goodness, Lately it's Mysterious Ways by
you Too.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Really Okay, interesting, okay.
How about a favorite recordingartist, as long as we're on that
bent.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Favorite recording artist lately would be Cannons.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Really, I don't know that group at all, so
interesting.
Okay, how about favorite movie?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
A Room With A View by EM Forte.
Really and as a matter of fact,james Ivory and a small
merchant who were the producersand directors I met James Ivory
on Halloween.
Yeah, that was a good time.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That must have been thrilling in so many ways.
Yes, what do you like about themovie?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
A Room With A View.
Oh my gosh.
Well, it is divinely romantic.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And it takes place in Italy and Florence, and it's
really about following yourbliss and taking risks, and
that's really what struck me andhas always struck me.
It's been around for a longtime and it's still a favorite.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, isn't that a 60s or 70s movie?
I'm trying to think 80s.
Is it Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Okay, Well, it's a classic nonetheless.
So I'm glad that those classicsare still alive in folks like
you.
How about, do you have afavorite chair?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Oh, that's a good question.
Hmm, I do like the Pelican.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
I like the shape of the Pelican chair.
It's a classic mid-centurychair.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Okay, do you have a favorite one at your home that
you go to that anyone else takesit, you say, out of my chair,
so that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I spend a lot of time at my desk, so it has to be a
comfortable chair.
Okay.
And that's an upholstered chairthat I use.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Okay, there are some.
I know my father-in-law had achair.
He had a lazy boy chair that hehad worked it into his body
form and if you sat in thatchair and he came on, there was
no question, you just got up andmoved to another chair.
So that was, I would say.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I have another one, I just remembered.
It is a 1920s Boudoir chairthat I used in my store and
basically we sat it was a pairand I sat with my brides where
they confessed all theirproblems and issues and
relationship issues and while wewere making their dress.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And yeah, I still have those chairs and now
they're my Boudoir chairs- Well,and you with the design
background I know, with mytheater background too I tend to
think a lot about it's not justabout the function.
The form follows the function,and there are oftentimes forms
that are exquisite and there areother forms that are just very
(07:40):
simple, but all of them can bevery just, alluring.
You know, have an emotionalresponse that comes from I just
find that to be interesting howyou look at the structure of
design and how things proceededthrough history, and there's
really, I think, a fascinatingcorrelation there between what
was going on in the culture andin that part of the world at
(08:01):
that time, and then thefurniture and, of course, the
clothing and all of those thingsthat were part of that.
And everything makes more sensewhen you understand the whole
gestalt, I guess.
Ultimately.
So how about you have afavorite animal?
Snakes, snakes, oh, snakes.
You're not Indiana Jones, thenhe hates snakes.
(08:23):
That's, that's interesting.
Why snakes?
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Although I love Indiana Jones, why snakes Snakes
?
I write about this in my book.
I fell in love with snakes whenI was a little girl.
I would sneak out of our housein Pakistan and go to the snake
charmer and watch the cobradance, and I grew up with also
folktales in my family beingtold about snakes and how they
(08:47):
played a part in our family'shistory.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Oh really.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, and by a.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
They're not.
You know, in the Western worldthey're demonized, but in the
Eastern, a lot of the Easternmythology venerate snakes.
They represent female sexuality, immense amount of prosperity
and good fortune and immortality.
Think about the symbol of theUroboros, where the snake's
eating its tail.
This idea of you know,transcending time is something I
(09:18):
also talk about.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Sure, well, it's weird too In Western
civilization even the medicalsign, the sign of doctors, has
the snake intertwined and that,as I understand that, comes from
biblical times where Moses putup the staff that basically, you
know, killed all of the snakesthat were plaguing the people at
the time.
So you know that's it goes wayback with the Western mentality
(09:42):
to have that sort ofdemonization.
Well, I mean the, you know, theserpent in the garden, right, I
mean it's all the way back tothe beginning of things.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So Well, even predating Judeo-Christianity and
I talk about this in my book Ihad the symbol of the caduceus,
of Hermes and the staff ofAsclepius.
The snake is indeed wrappingaround a branch which I think
Christianity ripped off andturned into a whole other story.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Probably, probably.
There's a lot of that crossright pollination of things.
So how about you have afavorite author besides yourself
?
Okay, you can't say yourself.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Oh my gosh, Joseph Campbell.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Okay, why.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Because he really dealt into the heart of humanity
and realized.
He did comparative studies ofdifferent mythologies and
folklore around the world andcame up with that hero's journey
and I so much relate to him.
I adored that man really.
I loved and he's quoted in mybook too.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Okay, so now are you going to get to meet him too,
like you did with the?
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Unfortunately he passed for yeah so.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Oh well, maybe in the afterlife, that would be nice.
So okay, last question Is therea favorite memory that you have
, a favorite thing that hashappened to you at some point?
That when you run acrosssomething that reminds you maybe
a smell or you know aparticular song, oftentimes I
(11:13):
think for people that when youhave that reminder you can go
back to that place, that memoryand just have a sense of this is
a center point for me.
This is a part of the core ofwho I am and you can celebrate
it if you will.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I love that question, Raul.
I would say it's waking upreally early in the morning in
my grandmother's gardenlistening to the parrots walk
around in the trees and smellingthe jasmine and the roses and
just watering her plants,watering the garden and
listening to the birds.
It's such a fun moment for mychildhood and I do that and, as
(11:51):
a matter of fact, I recreatethat paradise here in New York
City.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Excellent, excellent.
And that's so important toothat we, I think far too often
we don't even take the time tofigure out those moments, you
know, to realize that that is apart of our heritage, our
personal journey, right, and tobe able to celebrate that as
well as just commemorate and bethankful for that.
(12:15):
You know, I think oftentimes wejust we need to spend more time
being thankful period, right.
So well, thank you for yourhonesty with all that.
So let's talk a bit about you.
Have some wonderful talkingpoints, so let me get a better
understanding.
So it sounds like your breastcancer in 2019 was really kind
(12:36):
of a that was a formative, acrucible moment for you.
Have there been things that youthink, even leading up to that
point, that prepared you forthat time?
Because it strikes me that youmade an unusual, it had an
unusual response to thatchallenge and it would.
It seems to me that there hadto have been some preparation
(12:58):
for that to enable you to makethat choice instead of the, you
know, sort of atypical oh whatwas me?
What am I going to do?
My life is over.
You know mentality that oftenhappens.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I was initiated during the birth of my son, raul
.
I had him very early.
He was born three months earlyand I was hospitalized and spent
time in the hospital for amonth before he was born, on bed
rest.
So, yeah, I had always memoment when I was like wait,
(13:31):
what do you mean?
I can't leave, what are youtalking about?
I felt like I was, you know,going to prison, but it was
saving my life and saving hislife.
So, yeah, that perspectivedefinitely helped me understand
that sometimes what appears as acalamity can actually be a
blessing in disguise, and to notthrow literally a pun intended
(13:52):
baby out with a bathwater andsay, oh my God, that's it,
that's over, like my life isover.
No, I looked at cancer as a wayto hmm, well, that had an
interesting turn of events, like, what is this?
What is the universe telling me?
What am I supposed to learnfrom this?
And I started to investigateinstead of just taking it as at
(14:13):
face value.
Okay, that's, yeah, life as Iknew it was definitely over.
But again, like that oroboros,like the snake, we have that
ability to shed our skins andstart all over again, and that's
why I think the symbolism ofthe snake is such an important
thing for me because I reallywas shedding during chemo and
(14:34):
radiation and all the cancertreatment, the allopathic
treatment, where I was literallyshedding skins and coming out
as the goddess once more.
But if you look at any ancientmythology, any kind of hero's
journey, there's always anobstacle that the hero has to
overcome.
(14:54):
You are not, you know, you justaren't handed this.
Okay, you're great.
No one has to become greatright, and one has to go through
that crucible, that process,that challenge, and come out the
other side transformed.
Really, you are no longer theperson you are and I think
that's a really healthy thing todo.
(15:16):
It's a healthy thing to embracethat change.
And I think sometimes we'reafraid of change.
Sometimes it takes somethinglike cancer to make us change,
unfortunately, and I hope youknow for people that they don't
need to go through that in orderto come to that conclusion.
But I think it's reallyimportant to recognize that each
and every single one of us hasthat opportunity today to change
(15:39):
.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, well, and in fact, the only things that don't
change are dead right.
I mean, when you come to thinkof it, I oftentimes will
challenge friends of mine thatsay I don't like surprises, and
I think to myself how did youget out of bed this morning?
You know, because everything,everything that happens any day,
even if you have a routine,it's still a surprise.
(16:00):
It's something that you haven'tdone before, you haven't done
it that way at that time,whatever before.
So our response is critical,right, yeah?
So how do you, how do youmaintain that?
I think you know, a lot oftimes we do have this.
I would call it like the higherself, right, the, the, the self
(16:23):
that sees a perspective that infact pushes us or, you know,
pulls us, if need be, towards,you know, a higher level of
thinking, a higher level ofhoping, of dreaming.
You know all of those things.
How do you?
Do you have a secret sauce, ifyou will, to maintain that
perspective for yourself?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, her name is Persephone.
She is the goddess Persephonethat I write about in my book
and she's been around since Iwas nine years old when I
discovered her in my Montessorischool third grade class, and I
think what really resonated forme about her is the idea that
she goes into her underworld andshe comes out the other side.
(17:08):
She's one of two gods, olympiangods, who's able to kind of
commute between life and death,and it's not lost on me that I
ended up designing Persephoneseries.
When I was doing fashion, hadmy dress shop downtown, I did a
whole Persephone series and whothe hell knew that I was
actually going to become her.
And I think the symbol of whoshe is and what she represents
(17:31):
for me really helps guide mebecause she allows me to look
past the surface of things.
I mean, I'm the type of personwho believes more in the unseen
than the seen role that's reallyimportant to recognize, because
the idea of Maya, the idea thatthe world is an illusion, that
there's a plasticity as well anda neuroplasticity, the ability
(17:57):
for us to evolve and shift Ithink that's really rooted in
who we are on a much spiritualand deep biological level as
well.
That's something I speak to inmy book.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Boy, you know.
And it gets into a whole bunchof different things that are
going on in all sorts of domains.
I think every time someonestarts talking about things of
that nature, I think, well gosh,isn't that just the same thing
as quantum physics and the waythat they're trying to explore
this whole idea of the quantumdimensions, the idea of quantum
(18:32):
computing, that something is notjust a yes or a no.
It's also both the idea thatyou can have something working
at that speed to see allpossibilities and from all of
those possibilities choose onethat makes the most sense or
will cause you to arrive at therequested solution.
(18:56):
I love that Persephone has beensuch a personal marker or
personal hero heroine of yours.
That speaks volumes about you.
Honestly, anyone that wants togo ahead read, go on Wikipedia.
If I know about Persephone, sheis a rock and gal.
Let me tell you in a lot ofways.
(19:16):
What about Persephone'schallenges?
Do you identify with those?
I mean her journey through theunderworld as I remember it and
it's been a long time, sorry,it's fraught with a lot of nasty
stuff or things that she has toreally wrestle with her own
(19:40):
psyche.
Ultimately, I guess that's howI think of it at least.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
That's a really interesting way of putting it,
because one of the things I talkabout is to embrace your shadow
and the idea that your shadowand all the bits of you that we
like to shovel under the carpet,so to speak, they still are
part of us, To embrace the fullspectrum of our beingness, and I
(20:08):
think that's really importantto recognize especially the
shadow side of life, which isdeath.
I think a lot of people stillare in this weird construct like
death is going to happen toother people and not me.
We're all going to die at somepoint.
To face our own death in a waythat is graceful is really
important.
Back to what you just hit uponand made me laugh when you were
(20:33):
talking about quantum physics.
I designed a clothingcollection inspired by Brian
Green's Elegant Universe.
Oh really.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, does Brian know this?
Because I would think he'd beall over that.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right yeah.
And also I'm certified inquantum biology.
Oh really.
That's what I'm weaving into mydesigns right now, Raul.
Okay, wow.
I have a strong science brainand an art brain.
They're really equally balanced, equally just like life and
death.
So this idea of our shadow,it's really important to explore
(21:09):
because when I'm working withclients, design clients who are
afraid to really choose thatthing that gives them joy, like
the way you were asking thequestions what's your favorite?
This, what's your favorite that?
I asked them that and it'salmost like a pre-prescribed,
like oh, I should like thisbecause that's what's in fashion
, or I should like that becausethat's the in artist.
(21:31):
I'm like, no, what do youreally like?
It's not about trends, it's notabout what's in fashion, it's
not what your neighbors have oryou're so-and-so you're a
fashionable friend whatever.
What do you like?
Right.
Let's discover that this stuffrole has been shoved into the
dark, into the closet, into likeit's put away.
(21:52):
And let me tell you as I getolder, the more, the older I get
, the more childlike I get.
The older I get, the more I get, you know, like back to the
embracing the inner child and me, like what would my
six-year-old you know Mahoshwant?
What would she have done?
Like I have recreated mygrandmother's garden in my
(22:15):
apartment in New York City.
I have a parakeet that fliesaround.
I've had five.
I had like talking birds, Ihave had like all sorts of flora
and fauna.
I have a present here and youcan see a little one here.
But like I have all thatScented orchids, orchids that
smell like coconuts.
(22:35):
You know, like I use fragranceas a part of creating that whole
sensory experience in my design.
And that's important becauseit's linked to memory.
It's a very primal sense.
So I think the older I get, themore I reclaim my innocence,
(22:58):
which is important.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Boy.
You know, I think of youmentioned Judeo-Christian.
I think of the story of Christsaying unless you be as one of
these, when the children wouldrun to him, you shall not see
the kingdom of heaven.
You know, and I've believed inthat for a long time.
Just because when I direct, youknow, one of the first things I
(23:21):
talk to with casts is why doyou think they call it a play?
You know, and getting back intouch with the fact that the
only way that we're really goingto get at the root of what this
play is about it, what thecenter story is of this, is if
we learn to play again and trydifferent things and see what
will fit correctly or what fitsmost comfortably for you, and
(23:45):
make sense of this whole journey.
It's a fascinating thing to getpeople to rediscover their
childhood.
And you have to be brave, right?
I mean, when I think about thewhole idea of you know, facing
the world and saying, yeah, Imight my wife and daughter go
(24:05):
crazy cuz they watch.
You know, like project runwayand I'll see the stuff come down
the alley, like that is thestupidest thing I've ever said.
Like dad Draw, that's so instyle right now.
What do you don't know whatyou're talking about?
Like, I do know what I'mtalking about.
I think that looks stupid, I'msorry.
I know what I'm talking about.
I think it looks stupid and forme it does, so I'm sorry about
(24:28):
the people of it.
That's the way, it is okay.
And having the courage to dothat right to say you know, I'm
sorry, just in my cup of tea.
So right, and that's okay.
There has to be room fordifferent cups of tea.
If there isn't, then why are webothering?
So so then you end up makingthis transformation you have.
This is really horrible,crucible thing.
(24:51):
I mean, breast cancer is anawful thing for any woman to
have to deal with, you know, andI mean cancer in general, but
of course is a problem.
But there there are particulartrials, I think, with breast
cancer and there that I can'tspeak personally to, but it
seems like there's a kind of aspecial or use a unique
experience.
(25:11):
Did you?
Did you find, as you were goingthrough that, that you were
trying to be this is how you'regonna feel and you need to feel
this way, and now this is whatyou have to deal with?
Or were you like no, no, I'm,I'm not going down that path.
I've got my own pathway hereand I'm sticking to it.
And how did you do that?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I had someone close to me saying why aren't you
scared, why aren't you depressed?
I'm sorry for you to say, isthat what I want me to feel?
And so I think is weird thing.
I'm like, no, I'm actuallyhaving.
(25:49):
If I can find my divinealignment and grace in something
like this, shouldn't youcelebrate that, shouldn't you?
And be like, wow, she's, he'sgot it?
It's sometimes.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
what I've discovered is that people need you to feel
weak so they can feel strongyeah, yeah, I can see Well there
, envious of the fact that youare able to stay strong, right?
I mean that that makes themfeel weak then.
That they were not able to dothat or this doesn't make sense.
How can you not do that?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
everyone does this, right, so see the thing,
comparison is the thief of joyand I believe that.
But I'm not comparing myself toanyone's experience.
It's my experience.
And for those people who hadthe privilege, to you know, walk
that that length of that pathwith me and to turn around and
(26:41):
say things like why aren't youlike sad, like I am sad, I'm
just handling my sadness.
And design, I'm designingspaces, I'm redesigning my
apartment, like that's what getsme, like I needed a bone to
chew.
That was how I expressed thatright.
So I will to channel my mysadness.
(27:04):
Like some people work out, Icouldn't work out.
Like I worked out every day andI couldn't.
I wasn't allowed to work outfor for a couple of years there,
which is really tough.
And back to something that'sreally important for me to
mention row, cancer changes yourself perception can.
Cancer changes your appearance,right.
(27:25):
And if we're living in asociety that judges our self
worth Based on how we look,right, speaking a project runway
, I mean life is a runway, right.
Life is a way of like oh well,she's looking bad.
Well, she's never gonna lookthat good again, right.
And what if I can come backstronger and better than even
before cancer?
(27:45):
What if I look back at pictures, my camera recognizes me as
three different women.
You know I phone has like thefacial recognition.
It has me separated from thewoman I was before cancer, the
woman I was during cancer andnow the woman I am now.
Can you believe it?
It's crazy so that speak to thatlevel of transformation and
(28:07):
it's really important torecognize and this is a huge
part of what I do beauty ishealing and the kind of beauty
I'm speaking about it's notskinny, it's not about how we
look, it's about how we feel.
Okay, it's divine grace.
Beauty is our birth right.
It is rooted in our divinity.
(28:28):
It's rooted in us.
I'm a quantum level.
Speaking of beauty from aquantum level, that is cellular
alignment, cellular harmony,resonance with your, with your
truth, with your people that youlove in your home.
That is the true beauty.
And how can I create beauty ona cellular level so that I can
(28:53):
heal and come back stronger?
I look better than before?
Those were the kinds of thingsthat I was channeling.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Why it was so beautiful about it to is here
you are, in the midst of a verydark portion of any person's
life, to be fighting a lifethreatening disease that you
know what.
Twenty, thirty years ago, theprognosis would have been well
nice, knowing you and to face itwith a creative spirit to face
(29:24):
it with, which is usually.
I think the only combat againstdarkness is light.
I mean, you can't, you can sitaround in darkness and complain
about how dark things are, but,for goodness sakes, we found a
way to make fire and ever sincethen we found security in light.
So find light.
And I don't know as an artistmyself, I don't know of a better
(29:47):
way To find light than toengage your creative self,
because it's always enlighteningto do that.
So, if you may not have, youknow out in the world, but it is
enlightening to us personallyto choose to use that tool, that
that inner, inner light, tochange and cast a different
(30:11):
light to the world around us.
Right, including the peoplethat are saying why are you sad?
Well, because I'm choosing away of life instead of a way of
responding, you know, to life.
Anyways, that's, that's whatyou get me thinking about.
So I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I love it.
I love it and, as you aretalking, by the way, again to
bring back science into this,our bodies actually in mid light
.
We just don't have the sense ofDavid to see it, but we are
electromagnetic beings, we havelight, we actually produce light
, we are light beings and it'sso interesting that you know I'm
(30:47):
not sugarcoating, you know mycancer experience.
I'm not saying it was all likethat.
You know a walk in the park andthere was a lot of grief
attached to it, there was a lotof sadness and there was a lot
of Anger, and you know theseless than pretty emotions.
I just channel them.
I'm not saying that I didn'thave those emotions and I want
to make that distinction, butthat I chose to turn my straw
(31:12):
into gold.
I spun something new out of itthat, again, unless we're faced
with that thing, I don't know ifit's going to be the same for
anyone else.
Once you're faced with certainchallenges, it's really your
choice.
At the end of the day, it'syour decision, and that's why I
feel like it's so important totalk about and speak to mindset.
(31:34):
Once I decided that I wasn'tgoing to allow this to become my
whole identity, that this wassomething I was going to use and
research and investigate andfigure out what I have to learn
from this.
How can I, how can I make thisbetter for me?
And I didn't have the answers,I didn't know that all this
beauty was on the other side.
But I started to listen to myenergy ps roll because I hadn't
(31:58):
been cancer before cancer.
I was like cori.
Cori is the name of herstephanie before she became per
sepani.
Per sepani was only named aftershe went into her darkness,
after she went into herunderworld.
She was innocent.
She was an innocent,uninitiated maiden and that was
her name.
(32:18):
Cori was the innocent part ofher and I definitely recognize
the part of me that was notinitiated, that function from an
unconscious level, and I'm ableto see that.
I think it's really important torecognize the parts of us that
we didn't are the things that wedidn't realize for ourselves.
And suddenly, when somethingclicks and you're like, oh, this
(32:40):
was not just me before cancer,this is before me, like me
before the woke up, me before Irealized, you know, that what I
was living in was actually verytoxic, me before I realized that
I was being manipulated andabused.
So it's All of these things,and I think one one thing that
(33:04):
stops us from actually admittingthat to ourselves Is our ego.
We don't want to feel like wedidn't know something, and I
think that's crazy because I'mthe first person admit I don't
know about that.
The older I get, the more easyit is for me to say yeah, let me
, let me get back to you.
(33:24):
Not so, I'm not so sure, yetI'm not so sure.
Let me, let me figure that out,instead of like feeling like I
have to come up with the answers.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Well, why would you want to do that?
I've never quite understood thearrogance that presumes I
should know this.
Why should you know that?
Why, why?
Why would you not instead wantto admit that you don't know it
and then learn it?
I mean, if you didn't trust you, if you would like to know the
answer, that then go learn it.
But to just expect that allyeah, yeah, yeah.
(33:53):
That's what I think in socialmedia I find so amusing is all
these people are becomingexperts on things and no one
ever challenges to say I'mexcuse me, but this guy really
studied it or this womanactually does it, and that's not
true.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, that's a good point.
That's a really good point.
Yeah, it's very interestingfunctioning from you know, I use
the word and I use the wordauthenticity in my subtitle
authenticity is being able toadmit you don't know.
Authenticity is being able tosay yeah, I'm not sure if this
is gonna work out, but I'm gonnado this anyway because it feels
(34:31):
right right, give it a shot.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
so yeah, what is that ?
Since you know you after tenthousand tries with a different
filaments, and someone asked Now, aren't you kind of ashamed
that you have ten thousandthings and you haven't been
successful, and why?
Now I know ten thousand thingsthat absolutely won't work.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
so yeah, I mean, I fail so many times.
It's, it's failure in a lot ofways.
Has taught me, has been a veryinfluential teacher, and you
know those people who don't tryit all.
It's.
Yeah, it's safe, but, as Iwrite in my book, that safety is
(35:10):
actually what's killing us.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It suffocates you over time when you don't Break
out right, I actually had aguest, not just a little while
ago, talking about how he tookhis daughter to a butterfly
exhibit at a local museum, Ithink it was, and his daughter
was quite young at the time andnoticed that there was this one
(35:35):
butterfly in a chrysalis thatwas breaking out of the
chrysalis and was really, ofcourse, struggling just you know
the effort of trying to get outof that chrysalis.
It was so difficult for abutterfly.
And his daughter asked himDaddy, why doesn't someone help
that butterfly?
And he said very wisely well,sweetheart, if the butterfly
doesn't work, doesn't developthe muscles, doesn't end up
(35:57):
having that the substances thatneed to be transformed into the
wing or transferred into thewings, they won't survive.
So it's that struggle thatactually gets them to the point
where they can fly and be thebeautiful butterflies that we
all appreciate so much.
And I think we so much want tojust avoid the struggle.
You know, it's just like nowthe struggle, the struggle is
(36:17):
icky.
I don't want to feel bad.
I really, when I hear peoplesay I don't want to feel bad, I
feel like how shallow are you?
I mean, it's just, you know.
And then the people that reallydrive me nuts are the.
You know the Christians thatI've known who have something
horrible happen to them, and Iget it.
You know a son is killed in ahorrible car accident.
Awful things, awful, awfulthings.
(36:40):
They become just so embitteredand so nasty and so like okay,
god put them up.
And I think you know there is aperson that never had to go
through any fire, and fire iswhat turns gold into gold.
You have to be, you know,sifting and winnowing.
I mean you look, any sciencefield you look at historically,
(37:02):
there is always a refiningprocess that happens to make
something that was originallyflawed into a more perfect form.
So when we challenge, when we,as you say, I mean you're
bracing that shadow side, right,the shadows are incredibly
important for knowing our fulldimensionality, right, a thing
(37:24):
that is not lit in a way thatshows its shadows is not
three-dimensional.
So I don't know.
There's a lot you're getting methinking about.
So I'm sorry, this is supposedto be an interview with you, not
me spouting off.
So anyway, I wanted to talkabout the epigenetics, because
we mentioned that early on thatyou, you discovered through this
(37:47):
process that there areepigenetic effects of design and
emotions on health.
So how do you balance that,those sort of scientific
insights, with the artistic andintuitive aspects of design and
creating, creating, you know,these kind of healing spaces, if
you will?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Thank you for that question.
Let's put it in a veryinteresting analogy If
epigenetics, if your, your genes, are the home that you have and
you walk into that home and youcan turn on the light switch or
you don't have to right you candecide to paint it as something
(38:27):
a different color, you candecide to cover it with toxins,
but basically we have thatagency with our own bodies, if
your body is your home, to turnon and off those parts of us
that are there.
That's like the blueprint,right, that's the basic
blueprint, but we have theability to create healing for
(38:48):
ourselves.
And this is where the sciencegets into place in terms of
really simple auditing a home.
So I have a list where I lookat all the things that I looked
at, from my kitchen to the potsand the pans that I was eating
off of, to the synthetics thatyou know were possibly causing
(39:08):
all sorts of problems, and thematerials that we use, the
things that we inhale, that weare a living ecosystem, our
porous beings.
There's a communicationhappening between us and our
environment.
That's what epigenetics is.
Most cancers, I would say 75%,are now discovered as a
byproduct of your environmentand your lifestyle.
(39:32):
Okay, that's great news.
That's actually great newsbecause that way we have agency.
We have the ability to makethose changes.
Now, where to start right?
And that's where I startedusing my design background and I
said, okay, let me researchthis.
I'm a materials consultant forarchitectural firms.
(39:53):
I look at things that I amconstantly looking at different,
new ways to do things.
Why not look at it through thecancer lens and say, oh, is this
good?
I just want to make adistinction role.
What's touted, what's marketedas good for the environment
isn't necessarily good for ourhealth.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I'm like, oh, green design, green design, green
design, oh so great.
No, it's not.
I'm looking at it from.
Is it good for me?
Is it good for you?
Not just good for theenvironment?
And speaking of quantum biology, I discovered the fact that now
they're linking breast cancerespecially, too, because it's a
hormonal cancer to getting thewrong light at the wrong time,
(40:37):
light that is, from your TVscreen, from your iPad, from
your phone, especially afternighttime, when the sun sets.
Blue light is considered toxic.
It's a toxin because, our bodyis a photoreceptor.
Our whole entire body is aphotoreceptor.
(40:58):
We are photosynthesizing beings, and I'm not just talking about
what's lights coming in throughyour eyes.
Your skin is a photoreceptorand that blue light.
You might wear glasses to blockthe blue light, but your skin
is still being affected and onyour body, still internalizing
that blue light.
So how do I design from thatperspective?
(41:20):
Oh my God, I can go down arabbit hole.
I have so many great tips forthat, so many great tips for
that.
So that's just one aspect.
Even food, the food that we eat, is so important and what most
people don't realize I mean,everyone's talking about losing
(41:40):
weight, losing weight andlooking great.
Well, guess what?
If you ate the right things,you wouldn't have to try so hard
.
You would.
Just Our bodies.
The beautiful, divine design ofour bodies is that we are
always seeking to heal ourselvesand we're always seeking
homeostasis, and homeostasis isoptimal health.
(42:01):
So if we can help ourselvesmaintain that homeostasis,
modern life right now isactually pushing us away from
homeostasis, and that's what Ilove doing is speaking to this.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Yeah, I think honestly, since probably the
beginning of the industrialevolution, it's been an
increasingly forceful push awayfrom homeostasis.
The agrarian lifestyle wasprobably the last bastion of
that sort of thing and eventhat's been totally attacked on
so many levels.
You also have started a wholeseries of workshops for cancer
(42:44):
survivors and administrators andwhatnot.
That are from what I can tell.
I mean after talking with youmore I can't see how they
couldn't be transformative.
Can you give an example of howyour design techniques have
informed that in ways that youare sort of able to get people
(43:07):
to turn on their light bulbwithout blue light of course,
but turn on their yellow lightbulb, and make that work for
them?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Sure.
So the healing power of beautyand I can, there's a workshop
I've done and it's been verysuccessful is looking at your
space through your five senses,right?
So say, for example, you're inyour bedroom, what's the first
thing you see when you wake upin the morning?
Okay, just simple as that.
(43:35):
And what is your lighting likewhen you go to bed?
Is it toxic blue light?
Or you do have a TV in yourbedroom.
So that's like from the senseof vision, right, what you see
when you wake up and what yousee when you go to bed.
What do you feel?
What are your sheets like?
What are you touching?
What are you wearing againstyour skin?
(43:57):
Does it feel good?
Is it the right material?
Is it a synthetic?
Is it something that is goingto be in tune with your
frequency?
So there's that.
And then there's scent.
What does your bedroom smelllike?
Do you let it candle?
Is it something that evokesthat memory, like I said about
(44:18):
my grandmother's garden it's Ilove Jasmine.
Do you smell that scent beforeyou go to sleep?
What is your bedtime ritual?
Do you have one?
Let's create one.
What does that look like?
You know, things like that, Ithink, are really important.
Music sound?
Are you listening to thewaterfall or the ocean?
(44:39):
Or the Twitter of birds in a?
Forest.
Or is it your favorite music,Like you asked me who my
favorite artist is right.
Am I listening to the soundtrackover a room with a view?
Am I listening to opera atnight?
Let's set the tone.
We're really we're creatures ofhabit.
So I think it's reallywonderful to create these
(45:00):
rituals that becomes yourhealing sanctuary and that also,
on a biological level, sets youfor deep rest.
Right, are you watching?
Like I always tell my son, it'sreally important that you not
watch anything violent beforeyou go to sleep.
You know anything that youwatch, you can't remove that.
(45:20):
It becomes a part of yoursubconscious.
So be very guarded about whatyou allow yourself to see.
He already does that normally.
But, like you know, if newsgets you upset, don't watch CNN
before going to sleep.
Like things, like simple,little things like that.
To start really creating,curating your experiences at
(45:44):
home.
I mean the crooked, no high endhotels and spas know this right
.
They know this.
When you go into a lobby andyou smell that candle and it
reminds you of the four seasonsoh my God, it's always smells so
good.
Why not create the four seasonsin your bedroom?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
What that's crazy talk.
So, yeah, boy, it's interestingthat you know all the stuff
you're talking about and the waythat you know you're lighting
up as you talk about it.
I suspect it's because it's allso human, human, it's all so
humanizing to do that and yetour whole world these days is so
(46:26):
dead set against peopleattaining that.
You know, we poo-poo it, we tryto otherize people that adopt
that mindset.
It's like there's a spiritualwar against this mentality, this
, you know, shaping of reality,and it makes me wonder, you know
(46:50):
, what is going to be the light,what's going to be the click,
because I would like to thinkthat virtually everyone can make
this, you know, dynamic, thisquantum shift.
I think we all are gifted withthe capability of doing it.
I just, I wish there was a wayto turn it on for other people.
(47:12):
You know that they wouldsomehow.
You know you had an on-offswitch for others that you could
say okay, because, like all thehate and the polarization
that's going on right now, Ireally think we become addicted
as a culture to animosity andhatred and, you know, just
putting other people down sothat we feel better about
ourselves and conformationalbiases become, you know, the
(47:33):
next greatest drug kind of.
So we have to have an antidotefor that, and it strikes me that
art and beauty and design arethat antidote.
So how do we inject it?
You know what's the vaccinethat would do that?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
That's funny.
You just reminded me I have aline and I wrote a line in my
book is that we vaccinateourselves against uncertainty.
I think the polarization Raulcomes from trying to vaccinate
ourselves against a level ofuncertainty.
The fact that that we're tryingto otherwise is causing
separation, and in order tocause separation we have to
(48:12):
otherwise.
And I think that level oftriangulation that's happening,
whether it's political, whetherit's societal, on all those
levels I think.
When I look at it, I'm like,hmm, so whoever's doing this is
going to benefit from thisconflict, right?
What are the benefits andwhat's the benefit for?
Speaker 2 (48:33):
them.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
There's always the benefit.
There's an agenda for it I mean, nothing just happens on its
own.
It's placed and orchestratedand then, you know, created.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
It's designed, yes yes, it's bad design, but it's
designed so naughty design.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
So stepping back from that.
We have the ability Number oneit's reconnection with yourself.
If you're disconnected fromyourself, then you're going to
try to use otherness to createthat level of significance.
If you're able to feelsignificant within yourself,
that's the stepping stone and Ithink self empowerment as he has
(49:22):
.
That might sound, but what Itruly mean with that is
reconnecting with your shadow,reconnecting with the six year
old Raoul, and being able tofunction from there, function
from that level of innocence andwonder, right and open, open
porosity.
I think it's so interestingthat we are porous.
(49:45):
Biologically speaking, we'reporous beings and that level of
porosity should extend to ourhearts too.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
And our minds and our spirit and our interactions
with people.
Porosity is a beautiful thingbecause water passes through
porous materials and withoutwater we can live.
Without water for what?
Three days?
We live about food for months.
You know it's just howimportant is water, folks.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
You know that there's a fourth phase of water.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Did you know?
Speaker 2 (50:18):
I did not oh yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
The fourth phase of water is is liquid crystal,
which LCD technology has already.
They figured this out, so theyhave electrified.
We share the same technologiesare TVs.
So we have this type ofstructured water within us which
serves as an, as an antenna,and that's why I'm so adamant
about Wi-Fi and then being ableto turn down the electrical
(50:45):
charge of things, because we're,our bodies, are being robbed of
electrons from all our devicesand we have to maintain a
certain charge for optimal waterporosity to go in and out and
for nutrients to go in and outof ourselves.
Sorry, I'm going down therabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
No, that that you know that I keep thinking when
you're talking about that, Ikeep thinking Tesla.
I suspect that that hassomething to do with what Tesla
saw in his you know idiocy ofgeniusness, right, he just what
a wonderful you know illuminatedI think he actually made, makes
(51:21):
Einstein look kind of dumb, butit which is saying something,
right, but there is a Tesla wasonto that same sort of thing of
there being energy everywhereand just learning how to see
that energy is is the next bigpart of the journey.
You know that we're we can'teven define it because it's so
(51:41):
different from the way thatwe're thinking and we're we've
been conditioned to think it's.
It takes a whole newsensibility and you know sort of
the things we're talking aboutthere requires a sensibility as
well towards you know, I canchoose a way of death and
darkness or I can choose a wayof light and health and design.
(52:02):
Yeah.
That's an important lesson foranyone, right?
So?
Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, beauty from a, from a quantum level again, is
really about living in balancewith your darkness, living in
balance with the fact that weall will die and to live our
life.
And I think for me, it informsme in such a way where I make my
decisions from a place of what?
(52:31):
What have I got to lose?
You know, I tell my son, youknow, go and ask whatever you
need.
To ask that question.
He's like I don't want to soundstupid and I'm like no, but
like if you don't ask, then atleast 50% of the answer might be
yes, you might be able to getit.
You might be able to try, likewhy not give yourself that
chance, give yourself thepermission to just try something
?
It's better to try than to noteven and never know that you
(52:54):
could have succeeded.
Like what's the point, afterall?
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Right, right, right.
Stupid is not knowing theanswer.
Stupid is not wanting to knowthe answer.
So, and that that's somethingI've tried to teach my kids,
I've tried to teach other people.
It's just like you're notstupid because you don't know
the answer, but you will bestupid if you don't want to know
the answer.
So just you know.
(53:18):
Just get that through our headsplease, moesh.
There's so much more to talkabout.
Moesh, I'm so sorry that weonly have I mean, we're already
at an hour here and I make mypromise to my guests I won't
take more than an hour becauseit's not fair.
But I hope we can please findanother time to talk again.
I would love to continue theconversation because there is so
(53:40):
much more just in your talkingpoints that I never even got to.
You have like 11 questions.
I think I've got like one and ahalf answered, so, but oh,
that's a good thing.
Speaker 3 (53:50):
That's a good thing because that's a sign that you
know you liked and were inspiredto share.
You know your perspective and Ivalue that very much.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Well, thank you very much, Folks, my guest today has
been Moesh Syed.
Moesh is a Moesh, I'm sorry.
Moesh is an author.
She is a inspirer, a designer.
She has written a book right APurgatory to Paradise.
This book Is that available onAmazon?
Speaker 3 (54:19):
Is that something that people yeah, it's on Kindle
, Amazon and on Audible.
If you like to listen and playit in your car or while you're
cooking, you can do that too.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Excellent, and if people want to find out more,
you have a website rightwwwclaimyourparadisecom.
Yes.
And what sorts of things dopeople find that they go there?
Speaker 3 (54:40):
Oh my gosh, I have courses, I have audit lists for
your home, I have designmasterclasses, like my top three
lessons to transform your spaceright here, right now.
Your paradise is all about yournow beauty.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
They can get in contact for you.
I'm assuming that would bepossible through there too.
Yeah and no go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Oh, Instagram is Mahwish.
Underscore Syed underscoredesigns.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
And Mahwish Syed designs on Facebook right, yes,
okay, linkedin, I mean you're onall of that.
I don't see TikTok anymore.
Where's TikTok?
Speaker 3 (55:21):
I'm on TikTok too, just you know very small.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I'm not on TikTok.
I can't even get Instagramworking.
I'm like, I don't know, I justI guess I'm getting too old for
some of this stuff.
Maybe I'll hire some youngassistant that can just go do
that for me, so that would begood.
So, anyways, well, thank you somuch, mahwish.
I really appreciate your time.
It's so wonderful getting tomeet you and folks.
(55:45):
I hope you've enjoyed myconversation with Mahwish as
much as I've enjoyed it,although you'd be hard pressed
to do that.
So, and I thank everyone fortuning in here on Frame of
Reference Profiles andLeadership, and I hope we've
given you another wonderfulprofile to think about, consider
and maybe just try this way ofthinking.
Okay, take care, see you nextweek.
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