April 3, 2023 • 38 mins
In this episode, Melissa Pang talks with Albert Hermans, Albert has been a member of the Floor Coverings International team since 2015. Albert served on our Operations Team for years until 2020 when he began working with our Franchise Development Team. Having worked in Operations with our most experienced franchisees, he brings practical field experience as he coaches prospective franchisees toward business ownership. For his entire career, Albert has owned small businesses and has worked with small business owners. He and his family have been able to personally experience the benefits of small business ownership and having the ability to control your own destiny. His first foray into entrepreneurship started at 18 when he launched an online e-commerce business. After exiting that business, Albert then started a second small business at age 22. That second small business began as an individual location and then grew into a 60+ location franchise company. Since then, Albert has been involved with many other small business ventures. Albert is passionate about entrepreneurship and how it can help individuals create a lifestyle of freedom and wealth. He is a graduate of Rutgers University. Albert lives with his wife, Teressa, two daughters, Emory & Lainey, & dog, Nacho, in Monmouth County, New Jersey.
Franchise Friday, where you can watch or listen as we explore franchising, entrepreneurship, and small business ownership, speaking with the franchise industry thought leaders and subject matter experts that shape the Future Of Franchising. #FranchiseFriday – For more about our podcast, visit our website: https://futureoffranchising.com/ Produced by Franchise Source Brands International and The Entrepreneur’s Source.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:14):
Hey everyone out there.
Welcome to all of our listeners.
Welcome to today's episode offranchise Friday. My name is
Melissa Pang. I am the memberrelationship strategist here at
the entrepreneur source. And I'mso excited to have Elbert
Herman's here with me He's theVP of franchise development over
at floor coverings internet. Theflesh live guys, this is real
(00:37):
big deal if you're listening.
Yeah, Alvarez here. We'resitting next
to each other. Yeah, and thishas this has so many COVID jokes
I can make right now. But I'mstaying away. Yeah.
We're moving on. We're moving onfrom those.
And I shouldn't This is thefirst time we've done like a
(00:58):
live franchise Friday. Yeah, socongratulation. Yeah,
absolutely. Happy Friday. Yeah.
So everyone, Albert's a serialentrepreneur. He'll tell you
more about it. But he found hisway to floor coverings
international as part of theoperations team. And then he
shifted over to the franchisedevelopment side. And now Albert
and I have worked together forabout three years now. And the
(01:20):
upfront resource floorcoveringsInternational, we've built up a
great relationship. I do givebig kudos to you for for doing
that. Which we can we can talkthrough but introduce yourself
to the people.
Sure. Well, hi, happy Friday. Solet's see who am I? I am Albert.
I lead our franchise developmentteam here at floorcoverings
(01:40):
International. I've been withthis particular organization for
a long time, over eight years.
So like that's like high schooland then college. That's like
two four year clips of what ittakes to graduate get diplomas,
to diplomause two diplomas. And that's a
long commitment these days. Idon't think I've I've never made
that much of a commitment, thelongest
time I've ever been doing oneparticular thing because I've
(02:02):
only ever owned my ownbusinesses. That's kind of what
got me into franchising. So Istarted a business when I was in
college. I was dumb and lucky tostart a business, but then to
learn what the power of businessownership was when I was 22
years old, and I had somebodywant to buy a business that I
started. And so then I realized,Okay, well, in my career, I
(02:22):
don't have to be on a bus or atrain, like so many people that
live in our neck of the woods,New York, New Jersey,
Connecticut, like, you don'thave to go into Manhattan every
day, and you have to spend fourhours killing time. So I started
my next small business afterthat, that's how I got started
into franchising. So myself anda partner grew one particular
location, a fitness brand, toroughly 65 franchise units
(02:43):
before I joined floorcovering.
So franchising small businessownership, that kind of local
business ownership is somethingthat I've only ever really done.
So I don't really know muchelse. So like you maybe just end
this conversation now.
Entrepreneurship, andfranchising is key. All right,
people, that's all you need toknow. But I do think it's really
(03:06):
interesting that you kind offell into the startup
entrepreneur space, and thenfound franchising. What was it
about franchising? What was itabout your your prior experience
being a small business owner?
You built something that becamea franchise? And then you found
for Cummings International,like, what was it about
(03:28):
franchising that sparked?
Well, I think so. So the,there's a couple different ways
that I could maybe answer this,but I'll do it two ways. So
number one, the fitness brandthat I started was all about
helping people change theirlives through fitness,
nutrition, and motivation. Andit was all about giving a great
(03:48):
experience to the client. Andactually helping them change the
way they looked and felt aboutthemselves, which that business
was doing so well, the way thatwe chose to scale it from
reading textbooks and going toonline webinars and whatever was
bought through franchising. Andthen immediately once we started
learning about what it wouldtake to be a good franchisor
there were so many parallels tocoaching and fitness and caring
(04:11):
about somebody's goals and whatmakes somebody a good fit for
your program versus not kind ofa similar to a good franchisee
in a franchise organization. So,that was one thing that kind of
just clicked in automatically.
And then the it's interesting,the the path that led me to
floorcoverings International isvery similar to what I think a
client of a franchisedevelopment person would go
(04:32):
through. Because somebody'sleaving their job or leaving
something that they foundsecurity in or maybe not looking
for a business that they can ownbecause they want to follow
systems that had been laid outbefore them. And for me when I
joined floorcoveringsinternationals. This is I was in
my late 20s. So even though Istarted a couple businesses, I
(04:55):
was looking to join anorganization where I can go and
learn and follow in thefootsteps of people that have
been there done that before havehad chop half chops in the
industry. And I mean, certainlyfloor coverings are actually
being part of a publicly tradedorganization, the same people
that, you know, built brandsthat we all know as consumers
like California closets, andCertaPro, painters, Paul Davis
restoration, I mean, they'releading this organization. And
(05:17):
so that's why I chose to comehere, and I still kind of am
able to work with my passion tohelping people get into
business.
I know well, that's what I loveabout franchising is it, it
takes so many different piecesof from older, it's not just
like an industry. It's not justthe quick service, restaurant
industry or profit and revenueand all these different things.
(05:41):
But I think people can look atfranchising and think about
that, it's you're talking about,okay, you take client
experience, you take helpingpeople giving back, which is
part of your former life, youweave that into franchising. Now
you're not in fitness at allyour flooring, your in home
services, but you're stilltaking the pieces, from prior
life, knowledge skills, allthose things and putting it into
(06:03):
practice, in a completelydifferent industry. For
sure. Yeah, I know, to bedangerous about flooring and
home improvement. Now, we don'tneed to put in a new floor here,
don't want me to do anything, oreven change the light bulb
earlier. But like prior tojoining like floorcoverings
International, I didn't even owna home. So I didn't know the
first thing about what it waslike to have a contractor come
to your house and deal with the,you know, the who's showing up
(06:26):
late and who's not showing upand just the kind of the
standard image that people havewhen they get their home
remodel. Like I didn't even havethat to relate to. But the thing
that I latched on with floorcoverings though was again, it
was franchising. It was helpingpeople it was helping small
business owners. And whetheryou're in a flooring business or
you know, a different business.
There's local marketing and leadgeneration and conversion and it
(06:46):
just the maybe the the widgetmight change. Yep. But those
skills I had learned reallywell.
And here's the thing too, andthis is what's awesome for club
potential franchisees is youdidn't need to know about the
flooring, because the systemsprocesses products are already
in place. So even as you know,as a potential franchisee
(07:10):
someone exploring any franchiseconcept, but let's take floor
coverings International, it'sfine. You know, it's it's
probably was better that youdon't come with all this prior
knowledge.
It's absolutely better. Yeah, wewould prefer folks. That's, you
know, I wouldn't say prefer, Isay what would be more normal
would be somebody that becomes afranchise owner. floorcoverings
International has no industryexperience whatsoever. They
(07:33):
might have like remodeling orthey might like to do projects
in their house, but theywouldn't consider themselves an
expert at all. And so thatthat's a good thing, because the
whole old dog new tricks. That'sreal.
It is real, it is real. Andyeah, it's and I think it's
exciting when you can havepeople from all different walks
of life, all differentbackgrounds, it doesn't matter.
(07:56):
They can all come in and followthe same system. And you know
what's so interesting is we arein this franchising community.
We're in the franchising world.
So we love it. But I talked likeI just had a conversation with
one of my friends yesterday. Andhe was like, Melissa, like what
he really he asked the samequestion why franchising? And
for me, I'm like, Well, why notfranchising? Like, it's just
make sense. But I love theeducation around being able to
(08:18):
educate people about whatactually are the benefits. And
this leads me to like the mythsaround franchising. So there's a
few that we hear all the time,what are maybe some myths that
you hear, I'll throw out a few.
Again,I don't know nothing about the
industry, I have no experience.
I've never put down flooring inmy life.
(08:41):
I can't be creative, becauseit's a franchise, and they're
going to tell me everything thatI need to do. Maybe those are
some myths, you hear maybethere's some other things, how,
what are they? And how do youhave a discussion around that?
How do you deal with that?
So that they are myths, thethings you said, so I like the
whole no industry experience,like I mentioned, like, that's,
that's a good thing for a lot offranchisors, they're actually
(09:03):
looking people that don't haveindustry experience that have
more skill based types ofthings. Right. So for us, you
know, and I'll speak for us, butI know every brand has their
own. You know, we want people tohave leadership skills that are
comfortable building a team ofthree to five employees
minimally, and then leading thatteam as well. So that's more so
important than if you know whatunderlayment goes underneath
this particular hardwood or not,right? I mean, it doesn't even
(09:25):
matter. We could teach thatthat's the widget, right? And
then the, the other myths thatyou'd mentioned, which was what
was the other myth that youmentioned, which was, you know,
not being creative and owning afranchise like so. I think it's
people have that myth becausethey think of McDonald's, like
(09:47):
and honestly and what I'm aboutto express about McDonald's
could be not true. Okay, but Ihave I have this perception
about if I own McDonald's, likeeverything is so tight, that if
you turn over your left shoulderinstead of your right shoulder
to take Get the fries from thefryer into the little fried bin
where they pour all that salt onit. Like that's wrong, like so
like, that's my perception ofMcDonald's systems like it's
(10:07):
right or wrong. In mostfranchise brands, it's not like
that. Here's the playbook,here's the technology, here's
the product, here's the sellingsystem, here's, but based upon
your particular skill sets thatyou might have entering into
whatever brand it is that youchoose, you might operate a
little bit differently than Ioperated. And that's okay. And
because we all have differentbackgrounds, experiences and
(10:30):
skill sets, and that does allowyou to have even though it's the
same system in business, yourown flavor,
yep, 100%. And this is why Ithink it is so important for
franchisors to have greatvalidation amongst their
franchisees and for potentialfranchisees to take time to
(10:50):
validate with the currentfranchisees because that's when
you hear all these differentbackgrounds, let's say and I've
heard stories where you have asingle parent, single dad, with
with a few kids, he's worriedabout doing the business. And
having been able to spend timewith his family, he's able to go
validate with franchisees whoare who are in that exact same
(11:10):
spot or who were in that exactsame spot that we're getting
with in the creativity part. Butyou can do the same across the
board. I'm, I have a degree inengineering, how am I going to
go into this? And you know, howdo I put my own flavor on it,
you go and talk to thefranchisees who have done it who
are with that background? Youknow what I mean? And I think
it's, this is where I don'tthink we talk enough about
(11:30):
community when it comes tofranchising because the
franchisees become a communityand the franchisor does rely to
a certain extent, obviously,they are the franchisor but on
the franchisees for feedback andnew ideas, and that's how your
business grows. So I don't wantto speak to that and how
floorcoverings hasbeen I think that's like the
most under so if I was ininvestigating a franchise brand,
(11:52):
the average person that would bein my position if I was
investigating a franchise brandright now they're looking for
what am I going to get as far astraining goes from the
franchisor? How are they goingto help me how are they going to
help me how are they gonna helpme what oftentimes they don't
look for which I think is a bigmistake for somebody researching
a franchise brand is of coursethe corporate support and
(12:14):
involvement is very important.
That's why you go intofranchising, but also the
franchisee network. So beyondthe corporate team, the 100 shoe
and a 300 however manyfranchisees a particular brand
has how are they all interactingwith each other how are they all
helping and supporting eachother but then also to your
(12:35):
point how we're how we're thenthat that franchisee base, how
are they interacting with thecorporate team to help shape the
systems processes and proceduresand we're we believe that the
best practices come from thefield like and we build
platforms for the franchisees tohave little incubator
opportunities to kind of iterateand come up with new ideas. So a
(12:59):
floorcoverings national we havewhat's called a franchisee
Advisory Council and thefranchisee Advisory Council is
an elected group of seven oreight franchisees annually
they're elected by thefranchisee base that represents
the franchisee base on behalf ofthe base to corporate clinical
corporate right I hate using theword no we
don't we don't use corporatearound here but but
(13:21):
to the corporate office thehead. Yeah, exactly. But the the
franchisee Advisory Council hasregular meetings with the
corporate team to advise and youknow, be a sounding board for
new initiatives. But also someof the things that I that we do
that I think is really uniqueand awesome. Is it for each of
the deeper areas of ourbusiness. So whether it be
(13:42):
marketing technology thatparticular merchandise to the
products that we sell out in thefield. You know, retention of
salespeople at the franchiseelevel was a really important
aspect of our business. We havesome committees. So the
subcommittee is involved morefranchisees than just the
franchisee advisory council sothey can rapidly iterate and
(14:02):
talk through common issues anddealings with that the
franchisor having the field comeup with better practices based
upon their touch points withothers in the field. And then we
could bundle it up into astandard best practice across
our training systems and thingsof that nature. So yes, best
practices come from the field.
And I feel like this all goesback to why franchising because
(14:24):
I don't really know where elseyou're gonna find so that's so
collaborative and again thiscomes down to validating with
the franchise brands because notall are created equal I think
floorcoverings International isa great example of a brand and a
franchisor that values valuesvery highly the franchisee
(14:44):
perspective insights boots onthe ground bringing that back to
an encourages that. So not allare created equal. But I just
really again comes down to likeyeah, what are you looking for
with the brand? Kind of lost mytrain of thoughts? Now, but
anyway,I want to I want to just add to
that, because you're that thepower. So just like think about
it numbers wise. So it a lot ofpeople have the perception of
(15:07):
franchising that the corporateoffice, right, the bad corporate
corporate is going to tell mewhat to do, right? Which, okay,
if you say a franchiseorganization of 200 franchisees,
they might have 20 or 30 peoplein their corporate office. So
those 20 or 30 people working40 5060 hours a week, in this
bad scenario, they're going tocome up with the systems and the
(15:27):
best practices for the field.
Okay. Well, think about how manyhours that adds up to have
experienced that they candictate upon to the franchisees
whereas, if a franchiseorganization says that best
practices come from the groundup, you have at least three or
four or five, maybe employees atthe franchisee level X number of
(15:49):
hundreds of franchisees you havetheir years of experience,
right, so multiply all thoseworking hours. And that's
exactly what those bestpractices are coming from so
much more depth and time ofexperience when they come from
the field, as opposed to acorporate franchise entity
trying to dictate everythingthat happens out in the field,
(16:11):
it's just so much better. Andnot to mention for all the
franchisors out there for buy infrom your franchisee base. It's
so much more impactful whenyou're able to share that we got
this from Mr. And Mrs. Jones,who's performing at XYZ level,
as opposed to here's ourinitiative that you must do.
It's not yet proven, or maybe weproved it. And once instance, it
(16:32):
changesthe entire dynamic and culture.
Because we do at theentrepreneur sources. Well, we
have a franchise AdvisoryCommittee, and it is and it's
also it's that back and forth.
It's that collaboration betweenyour franchisees and the
franchisors, we say withoutsuccessful franchisees, we can't
be a successful franchisor. Soyou have to work together. And
(16:53):
we bring initiatives to them,and they bring initiatives to
us. So it goes both ways. Andthat I believe is a very healthy
franchise brand. Sowe want to facilitate more than
we dictate. Yes, we like to seemore round tables than we do,
you know, facing forward tables,right, like those that's really
important. No,that's a very good distinction
on that and question for anyfranchisors again, who are
(17:18):
listening, and maybe they havethis in place where they don't
How did that start with a floorcoverings International was very
intentional. A franchisorfranchisee Advisory Committee is
quite common. But and then thoselittle subcommittees was that
more organic.
counted that Yeah. So that so SoI joined floorcoverings
(17:38):
international over eight yearsago. And when I first started,
we had a franchisee advisorycouncil. So that was in place,
but then the subcommittee thingI want to say started maybe four
or five years ago. So it wasbefore COVID. But when COVID
hit, we had a COVID taskforcethat was part of a subcommittee,
right, it was a really importantinitiative in our business. But
um, that that was born out of Imean, we're part of a larger
(18:01):
organization of brands, like Imentioned earlier. So I believe
it was one of the betterpractices that another brand was
was doing. And we brought itover to us. And that's where it
came from. But I mean, again, itwas just another opportunity for
us to expand the way that wewere facilitating learning and
facilitating input. And I thinkthe wider you can go and the
more franchisees you can getinvolved in cohorts, let's just
(18:24):
call them and opportunities tokind of roundtable the better
off the franchise brand is. Yep.
I like the analogy of more browntables, as opposed to like the
front facing kind of directives.
Yes. For all people watchingthis video. If you're investing
in your franchise brand, I wantyou to ask the brand, do they
have round tables or frontfacing tables? And that's
everything you need to know.
(18:45):
And that should give you youranswer. That's all that's all.
No, it's very, very importantpiece of the puzzle that
sometimes gets lost in profitsand features and benefits. It
really is like looking atculture community and that and
that collaboration betweenfranchisor and franchisee when
you go okay, around mythssticking on this topic a little
(19:07):
bit longer. And we're talkingabout, you know, future
franchising, and all thesedifferent things right now.
Economic the economy comes up,I'm sure a lot in conversations
comes up at our main office withour franchisees across the
board. What do you hear frompotential franchisees? And how
do you work with that?
(19:27):
So right now, I mean, you hear alot of uncertainty, right? I
think it's if you fall,anything, the news, Twitter, you
know, whatever channel you puton, or even just people in the
grocery store chatting, right?
It's just it's uncertainty. Isit good? Is it not good? What
can we expect? Like then that's,and I think that for a
candidate, that's a that's amore confusing time to be in. I
(19:48):
think that in a rocket shiproller coaster in a kind of
Upswing economy, obviously forsomebody investigating and
business opportunity That's agreat thing. And then they wish
they'd be, you know, in greatposition to invest in something.
But also, if it's a for certainwe are in a downturn, certainty
actually is okay for peoplebecause they know what they're
(20:09):
getting into. So the two oneway, certainties good middle
feeling that a lot of people arehaving around the economy. It is
a topic that comes up a lot in avalidation process. And the way
that we handle it is, is just bysaying, Listen, I think it was
Jay Z that had this quote, menlie, women lie, but numbers
don't. Okay. And so we just say,let's look at the data, let's
(20:31):
look at let's look at theeconomic indicators that are
really going to impact thisparticular business over the
next three to five years,whether it's real estate trends,
macro, or micro, what interestrates have done to the real
estate market, but also what'shappening home and home equity,
how people might be more apt tospin in their home versus not
like these are all things thatare important to the remodeling
business. But when you put thefacts in front of candidates,
(20:52):
they actually go, oh, there'scertainty. And I can move
forward, right. So you have totake the uncertainty and make it
certain and facts do that. Andthen allow them to make
decisions based upon that. So Ithink, again, right now, for
everybody and friend, as youknow, you're talking to
(21:12):
candidates that are that are inuncertain economic times, and
whatever you can do to make themmore certain based upon data,
the better results you'll have,I think weaving that the data
with the client experience, itcreates just this certainty on
all fronts, where and this goesback to, we talk a ton about
(21:34):
client experience, and you kindof meet the client where they're
at. And right now, so manyclients are in that area of
feeling the uncertainty ofeconomy, employment, jobs,
financial security, like allthese different things. If you
can provide that clientexperience that meets them,
where they're at right now, sortof pushing them through sales
(21:55):
process, pushing them through,do franchising. This is just
doing it, it's going to work.
You provide the data, you givethem a little bit more
information a little bit moretime, some space, you do
coaching, we were talking aboutthis before, but you you're
coaching people on talking themthrough mindset and their
perspective and theirperception. And you're able to
(22:15):
help them get through that. AndI think that's really unique,
because other people are justgoing around just in blind
uncertainty and have no ideawhat's going to happen, or
they'renot addressing the issue. Right.
Right. Right. So you have toaddress it, right? It's Yes,
it's we're all living in thesame world, we're all working
the same headlines, we're allexposed the same social media.
And so I think that the morethat you can paint issues, read
(22:37):
and call it out and be willingto talk about it and have data
and facts to talk about. I thinkit also as somebody in a you
know, in the franchisedevelopment position, it also
gives you credibility as well,which is a good thing, because
the brand credibility as well,not afraid
to approach these things andtalk about them. And I think
when you just look at the bigpicture as well. And I know we
(22:59):
keep coming back to whyfranchising, but I think you
look across all these differentsectors and periods of time,
where just naturally you haveups and downs. It's just part of
what happens. And you see,franchising has just grown over
the long term. And yeah, andreally is on there's no decision
(23:22):
making it's learn likefranchisees, you are candidates,
you just take what you need,what do you want to learn? What
do you want to ask? Ask it,that's totally fine. And as a
franchisor be okay with peopleasking those questions and
wanting to know and beinguncertain, and it just takes all
that pressure off? I feel soquestions
(23:43):
are a sign of engagement. Yes.
And that's what we want. We wantpeople to be engaged with us so
that's a good thing.
So bring out the questionabsolute bring out all the
question about uncertainty. Sobut But overall, and bring us
into again, on that positivenote. When we look at future
franchising, I think they justsent out like an economic
report, but it's it is growingand I think actually coming out
(24:05):
of 2020 and 2021 people areseeing a lot of growth from from
before.
Listen, I think people I thinkthe American dream is to own a
small business Yeah, but it'sgenerally scary to invest life
savings and not knowing about anindustry you're not going to
operate. So to go into afranchise business where you can
have all the benefits of smallbusiness ownership plus have all
(24:28):
the systems tools processesprocedures network that we
talked about, you know,throughout the course of this
conversation. Yeah, franchisingwill always continue to grow
Yeah, of course. Yes, franchiseewill
grow. And I do and I love thatand was reiterate what you said
were people they want certainty.
So how can you take someone'suncertainty and create something
solid for them and again,knowledge so we were talking
(24:48):
about economy, but you takeanything uncertainty around
business ownership, uncertaintyaround an industry, uncertainty
around how muchmoney can I make your business
right You give them and youyou're able to give them
certainty about it. Maybe theychoose it, maybe they don't, but
at least they have knowledgethat they didn't before.
Exactly. And that's, that's whathelps they make an educated
(25:09):
decision. Okay. So you have aninteresting background where you
started in operations, with workofferings. I mean, you have very
varied background, but withfloorcoverings, started in
operations, and I've shiftedover to franchise development
and that more sales, I thinkthat in just on the franchisor
level, those two teams sometimescan work in silos, because
(25:32):
there's a lot going on yourfranchise development, we're
bringing in new people, we haveto, you know, we're constantly
wanting to bring in new people.
And then you have operationsteam who now take on those
people that the salespeople havesigned on, and they're working
on training and support. Thoseare very closely, they're very
tied together, but I don't thinkthey're always talking together.
(25:53):
I don't know what yourexperiences with that and how
you've kind of leveraged or ifyou've leveraged your background
and operations to weave thatinto the sales experience. That
was a lot. Oh,no, that's good. I mean, yeah, I
think in general, in anybusiness, manufacturing,
business, sales, and themanufacturing people in the
facility, they like they they'reat odds, right, because the
(26:14):
sales team is making promises,that's not necessarily founded
on what the manufacturing teamcould do. So in franchising,
it's just the development teamand the operations team. But it
really is sales inmanufacturing, right? It's, you
know, we're selling a dream, avision, a product, and then the
operations team really isdelivering on it. So ultimately,
whatever business there is,there's this natural kind of
(26:35):
butting of heads, but I think,so as far as my experience goes,
one of the things that I'm mostproud of, of floorcoverings
International is we really workhard to weave the two together,
because at the end of the day,in the long term, not the short
term, which sometimes it's easyto sacrifice, long term benefit
for short term gain. But in thelong term, and we try to get
(26:57):
everything long term, havinghigh performing franchise owners
makes the development team jobeasier. So if that's our goal,
then we have a lot of incentiveto work with the operations team
to understand who exactly is ourright candidate? What are we
willing to say works in oursystem in our model versus not,
(27:17):
and then holding tight to thatand the development process? So
a couple of things that we dotea that, you know, kind of a
light, but first and foremost,we don't. You know, it's not
like when we get together onetime a year at our annual
conference, like it's like, Idon't know, like that when the
aliens meet the humans like,it's like, Oh, there's the
operations team or the salesteam. Like, we look for
(27:38):
opportunities at least eighttimes a year where we get
together live human to humanwith the operations team,
because even though sometimesinterests can be competing, at
the end of the day, it's goodfor the teams to know that we're
all still human together. Andwe're all on the same team
working to achieve the sameoutcomes, right? So we have
eight times a year at least,where we bring teams together on
a bi weekly basis, our team ofoperations folks that works with
(28:02):
our most got our less leasttenured franchisees, the people
that are going through thetraining program, and are about
one year in business. We meetevery other week, the sales team
and the operations team meets.
And we talk about, okay, what'schanged in a training program?
What are we seeing that's goodin the training class, not good
the training class, and then atthe same time, kind of what is
(28:24):
our funnel look like? So theycan be prepared for, you know,
people say, who's signingagreement next week, who signed
an agreement two weeks, so it'severy other week, it's it's
built in process internally, sothat we are we are talking and
communicating. And then youknow, myself and a couple others
on our team, plus a coupleothers in the operations team,
we also meet on a bi weeklybasis as well, but in a separate
(28:47):
meeting, to talk through acrossthe system. So now, it's just
not about the earlierfranchisees, but across the
system, somebody 30 years inbusiness, again, what's working,
what's not in the field, thatway, I can bring that back to
the development team. So it's,yeah, the more you get
roundtables again, but the moreyou can have talking and
communication to break down thesilos is better and at the same
(29:10):
time, kind of just keeping thatend goal in mind which the end
goal is high performingfranchisees and the sales team
understand the benefit of that.
That's what's helped usknow, I love its long term,
because you look at it and wesay it's like emerging
franchisors emerging brands,you're you're not gonna make
money off your franchise fees.
It's your long term royalties,and if you have super successful
(29:33):
franchisees, those royalties aregoing to be even better and just
across the system, they talkedabout validation and all the
stuff. So I love that you talkedabout how you do it. Because
like on our side, we have Meetthe Team days so we do it
virtually now, which is workedout fantastic. So every single
member of the at least from eachteam is presenting during meet
(29:56):
the team and has a chance tointeract with the candidates.
And then we always do a pre Meetthe Team day and we do a post
Meet the Team day. And everyonewho participated has a chance to
say what they thought about thecandidates. And if it's a, it's
an it's basically an awardsapproval. But it comes from not
just okay franchise development,we checked off all the boxes,
(30:17):
good, we're done, we're sendingthem through, they sign the
agreement down, here you gooperations, it's very much a
conversation. And we do havediscussions where the operation
seems like, I don't know thatthis person is going to be able
to do XYZ, and we have adiscussion about it. So
everyone's on the same page, andit's not operations team and
training going, Why is thisperson here? You know, or down
(30:40):
the road? So I love that. Didyou guys do the did you? Did you
start implementing that? Wereyou they have floor coverings
been doing that for a while.
So a lot of these things, alittle bit of both. So we've
always had some type of cadence,and then I've refined it and
kind of tweaked it and, youknow, you know, we, at one
point, it was very loose, andnow we have more of a tight
(31:01):
agenda. So like, you know, it's,it's just, you know, one of our
core values is to practicecontinuous improvement. And
that's just something that, youknow, everybody talks about core
values, and they just kind ofsay it, but it's something that
we really try to livelove it. Another reason why we
love floor coveringsInternational. Okay, and I will
ask one more question. Andagain, this is more for
(31:21):
franchisors who are listeningemerging brands. stuff today, it
was good. I know, I know it was,but that's just where it went.
That's where the conversationwent naturally. How do you we
talked a lot about like yourfranchisee community, you got to
bring in the right people. Itstarts with the franchise
development team, long term, allof those things. How do you find
(31:41):
the right people for your brand?
Like? And is that something thatchanged over time, like when you
first started working infranchise development, or the
company had an idea to where itis now. So how do you attract
those right people? And how doyou figure out who your right
person is? Man? Okay,so it's a lot there. I know. I'm
(32:04):
queen of asking like 70questions.
I was like, 19 questions. So hasit changed?
Has your house okay, so how doyou find out who your ideal
candidate?
How do you? How do you know?
Right?
Has that changed over time? Yep.
And then how are you attractingthat person to your room? Sorry,
I had to raise that, becausewriting it down, everyone.
(32:26):
All right. So so ultimately, sohow do you know? So how do you
know is go back to the field,right? And so I think it's in
when you go back to the field,my encouragement would be you
don't just pick the top guy orgal, or, you know, you have your
top I like to say top third ortop 25%. So, you know, of the
(32:48):
top third or top 25% of afranchise network? What not,
what's their background? Becauseto me, that also was not very
important, but what skill setsdo they have? What experiences
do they have? What do whatenergizes them in the workplace,
what doesn't give them energy inthe workplace, like, so those
are the types of things likethat I would want to pay
(33:10):
attention to. In for us, it haschanged over time. So our model.
You know, we've been around for30 years. And you know, the
friend home from a franchisinghas changed a lot in 30 years.
And there are a lot of brandsthat are still like this, but
called Legacy home improvement,which was our which is kind of a
we call it main advantage, chuckin a truck, which for some
(33:30):
people, that's the rightbusiness model. It's not a
derogatory term, but you'rebuying yourself a business that,
you know, you're the soleoperator in which that's fine.
And over time, you know, ourvision is to build multimillion
dollar businesses. And in orderto do that, we need somebody
that's comfortable building andleading teams. And so it shifted
from, hey, I want to be in homeimprovement and have some
(33:52):
autonomy, but really no directreports, you know, keep this
really simple to somebody thatsays, No, I want to build a team
of people so that I can havelifestyle, freedom, equity,
things of that nature, in thebusiness that I'm building. And
so that has changed for us overtime. And I think that
attracting these individuals hasa lot. I mean, I said it very
(34:12):
plainly, just now it's like, youhave to say it, and then you
have to stick with it. And thenyou have to communicate it if
you know if you're a franchisedevelopment person, or you're a
franchise brand, and you'reworking with coaches. And you
have to be very clear, like,Hey, this is the type of
individual we're looking for.
And if somebody doesn't fit thatmold, that's okay. Say they
don't fit our mold and then havethe conversation and have the
(34:34):
conversation with the candidate.
But I found that actually, themore we've been really clear
about the right person for ourbusiness, the better candidates
will get that more match thatdescription. Then as we're
saying, Oh, hey, listen to wherethis great home improvement
brand says anyone that'sinterested in home improvement.
(34:55):
Well, that's not really helpfulto us or to even the candidate,
right because The candidatelooks at what our model is and
goes, it doesn't resonate withme. So I, I think it's a, so if
I just sum it up top third, butnot background, kind of likes,
dislikes, qualities, things ofthat nature has changed for us.
And you just got to be reallyclear about it and stick to
(35:16):
it. Yep. Okay. No, I think you,thank you for sharing that.
Because I think it is evolvingover time, especially if you are
a newer brand. You're listeningto this. And you're saying,
Okay, I don't want 30 years,well, take start, you can take
pieces of that, like, what kindof person are you looking for,
that's going to fit in with theculture? Are you looking for
some what the leadership skillsare looking for these different
things. And again, I'm nottalking about qualifying out,
(35:38):
when it comes to that, like, I'mjust talking to like different
qualities that you would want tobring into your organization.
You can even look at, I wouldsay like your home team, like
what are some of the qualitiesthere? And what do you really
like what has worked and how canyou bring in more people like
that, and it is going to changeover time, especially as you
build build it up, your firstfew franchisees are going to be
like your blue sky thinkers aregoing to be able to take risks
(36:01):
and use it for things that mightchange over time. As you bring
in more and more. I also likethat you're using you're taking
data from your, you know, yourexisting franchisees and you're
putting some certainty into the,into the who you're looking for
people liketo be around people that are
like them generally. Right? Andso, you know, franchisors should
look at their corporate teamdoes that depict what they kind
of would want out of afranchisee they just take a look
(36:22):
at their current existing baseof franchisees and realizing
that the people that you'rebringing into the organization
that you're slapping their logoon their chest, they're going to
be the people that will attractor repel the potential next wave
of folks that join yourorganization. It's really
important, becauseit all comes down to your
franchisees. A lot of differentfronts. Okay, if you were
(36:46):
granted the choice to have moremoney, or more time, which would
you choose? And why?
Hmm. Let's see. I'm probablygonna get the unpopular answer,
I'd say more money, because withmore money, you can invest in
assets to create more time. Sothat's, that's what I would say.
(37:08):
I love it. That's like the threemore wishes. Yeah. But that's
what it would be. It would be Iwould be, I'd say yeah, if I had
more money and more financialresources that I could invest in
more opportunities to createmore time for me and my family,
so I would get the time. Butstart with the money and that's
(37:30):
also a chicken or egg thing too.
But yeah, that's myphilosophical, but I'm good with
that answer. There's no right orwrong, Albert.
That's my substantiation.
Well, thanks so much, Albert.
This was fabulous. I just lovethat we got to do it in person.
So that sounds real high five.
Thank you guys so much fortuning in. And again, this is
Albert Herman's withfloorcoverings international
Hey everyone out there.
Welcome to all of our listeners.
Welcome to today's episode offranchise Friday. My name is
Melissa Pang. I am the memberrelationship strategist here at
the entrepreneur source. And I'mso excited to have Elbert
Herman's here with me He's theVP of franchise development over
at floor coverings internet. Theflesh live guys, this is real
(00:37):
big deal if you're listening.
Yeah, Alvarez here. We'resitting next
to each other. Yeah, and thishas this has so many COVID jokes
I can make right now. But I'mstaying away. Yeah.
We're moving on. We're moving onfrom those.
And I shouldn't This is thefirst time we've done like a
(00:58):
live franchise Friday. Yeah, socongratulation. Yeah,
absolutely. Happy Friday. Yeah.
So everyone, Albert's a serialentrepreneur. He'll tell you
more about it. But he found hisway to floor coverings
international as part of theoperations team. And then he
shifted over to the franchisedevelopment side. And now Albert
and I have worked together forabout three years now. And the
(01:20):
upfront resource floorcoveringsInternational, we've built up a
great relationship. I do givebig kudos to you for for doing
that. Which we can we can talkthrough but introduce yourself
to the people.
Sure. Well, hi, happy Friday. Solet's see who am I? I am Albert.
I lead our franchise developmentteam here at floorcoverings
(01:40):
International. I've been withthis particular organization for
a long time, over eight years.
So like that's like high schooland then college. That's like
two four year clips of what ittakes to graduate get diplomas,
to diplomause two diplomas. And that's a
long commitment these days. Idon't think I've I've never made
that much of a commitment, thelongest
time I've ever been doing oneparticular thing because I've
(02:02):
only ever owned my ownbusinesses. That's kind of what
got me into franchising. So Istarted a business when I was in
college. I was dumb and lucky tostart a business, but then to
learn what the power of businessownership was when I was 22
years old, and I had somebodywant to buy a business that I
started. And so then I realized,Okay, well, in my career, I
(02:22):
don't have to be on a bus or atrain, like so many people that
live in our neck of the woods,New York, New Jersey,
Connecticut, like, you don'thave to go into Manhattan every
day, and you have to spend fourhours killing time. So I started
my next small business afterthat, that's how I got started
into franchising. So myself anda partner grew one particular
location, a fitness brand, toroughly 65 franchise units
(02:43):
before I joined floorcovering.
So franchising small businessownership, that kind of local
business ownership is somethingthat I've only ever really done.
So I don't really know muchelse. So like you maybe just end
this conversation now.
Entrepreneurship, andfranchising is key. All right,
people, that's all you need toknow. But I do think it's really
(03:06):
interesting that you kind offell into the startup
entrepreneur space, and thenfound franchising. What was it
about franchising? What was itabout your your prior experience
being a small business owner?
You built something that becamea franchise? And then you found
for Cummings International,like, what was it about
(03:28):
franchising that sparked?
Well, I think so. So the,there's a couple different ways
that I could maybe answer this,but I'll do it two ways. So
number one, the fitness brandthat I started was all about
helping people change theirlives through fitness,
nutrition, and motivation. Andit was all about giving a great
(03:48):
experience to the client. Andactually helping them change the
way they looked and felt aboutthemselves, which that business
was doing so well, the way thatwe chose to scale it from
reading textbooks and going toonline webinars and whatever was
bought through franchising. Andthen immediately once we started
learning about what it wouldtake to be a good franchisor
there were so many parallels tocoaching and fitness and caring
(04:11):
about somebody's goals and whatmakes somebody a good fit for
your program versus not kind ofa similar to a good franchisee
in a franchise organization. So,that was one thing that kind of
just clicked in automatically.
And then the it's interesting,the the path that led me to
floorcoverings International isvery similar to what I think a
client of a franchisedevelopment person would go
(04:32):
through. Because somebody'sleaving their job or leaving
something that they foundsecurity in or maybe not looking
for a business that they can ownbecause they want to follow
systems that had been laid outbefore them. And for me when I
joined floorcoveringsinternationals. This is I was in
my late 20s. So even though Istarted a couple businesses, I
(04:55):
was looking to join anorganization where I can go and
learn and follow in thefootsteps of people that have
been there done that before havehad chop half chops in the
industry. And I mean, certainlyfloor coverings are actually
being part of a publicly tradedorganization, the same people
that, you know, built brandsthat we all know as consumers
like California closets, andCertaPro, painters, Paul Davis
restoration, I mean, they'releading this organization. And
(05:17):
so that's why I chose to comehere, and I still kind of am
able to work with my passion tohelping people get into
business.
I know well, that's what I loveabout franchising is it, it
takes so many different piecesof from older, it's not just
like an industry. It's not justthe quick service, restaurant
industry or profit and revenueand all these different things.
(05:41):
But I think people can look atfranchising and think about
that, it's you're talking about,okay, you take client
experience, you take helpingpeople giving back, which is
part of your former life, youweave that into franchising. Now
you're not in fitness at allyour flooring, your in home
services, but you're stilltaking the pieces, from prior
life, knowledge skills, allthose things and putting it into
(06:03):
practice, in a completelydifferent industry. For
sure. Yeah, I know, to bedangerous about flooring and
home improvement. Now, we don'tneed to put in a new floor here,
don't want me to do anything, oreven change the light bulb
earlier. But like prior tojoining like floorcoverings
International, I didn't even owna home. So I didn't know the
first thing about what it waslike to have a contractor come
to your house and deal with the,you know, the who's showing up
(06:26):
late and who's not showing upand just the kind of the
standard image that people havewhen they get their home
remodel. Like I didn't even havethat to relate to. But the thing
that I latched on with floorcoverings though was again, it
was franchising. It was helpingpeople it was helping small
business owners. And whetheryou're in a flooring business or
you know, a different business.
There's local marketing and leadgeneration and conversion and it
(06:46):
just the maybe the the widgetmight change. Yep. But those
skills I had learned reallywell.
And here's the thing too, andthis is what's awesome for club
potential franchisees is youdidn't need to know about the
flooring, because the systemsprocesses products are already
in place. So even as you know,as a potential franchisee
(07:10):
someone exploring any franchiseconcept, but let's take floor
coverings International, it'sfine. You know, it's it's
probably was better that youdon't come with all this prior
knowledge.
It's absolutely better. Yeah, wewould prefer folks. That's, you
know, I wouldn't say prefer, Isay what would be more normal
would be somebody that becomes afranchise owner. floorcoverings
International has no industryexperience whatsoever. They
(07:33):
might have like remodeling orthey might like to do projects
in their house, but theywouldn't consider themselves an
expert at all. And so thatthat's a good thing, because the
whole old dog new tricks. That'sreal.
It is real, it is real. Andyeah, it's and I think it's
exciting when you can havepeople from all different walks
of life, all differentbackgrounds, it doesn't matter.
(07:56):
They can all come in and followthe same system. And you know
what's so interesting is we arein this franchising community.
We're in the franchising world.
So we love it. But I talked likeI just had a conversation with
one of my friends yesterday. Andhe was like, Melissa, like what
he really he asked the samequestion why franchising? And
for me, I'm like, Well, why notfranchising? Like, it's just
make sense. But I love theeducation around being able to
(08:18):
educate people about whatactually are the benefits. And
this leads me to like the mythsaround franchising. So there's a
few that we hear all the time,what are maybe some myths that
you hear, I'll throw out a few.
Again,I don't know nothing about the
industry, I have no experience.
I've never put down flooring inmy life.
(08:41):
I can't be creative, becauseit's a franchise, and they're
going to tell me everything thatI need to do. Maybe those are
some myths, you hear maybethere's some other things, how,
what are they? And how do youhave a discussion around that?
How do you deal with that?
So that they are myths, thethings you said, so I like the
whole no industry experience,like I mentioned, like, that's,
that's a good thing for a lot offranchisors, they're actually
(09:03):
looking people that don't haveindustry experience that have
more skill based types ofthings. Right. So for us, you
know, and I'll speak for us, butI know every brand has their
own. You know, we want people tohave leadership skills that are
comfortable building a team ofthree to five employees
minimally, and then leading thatteam as well. So that's more so
important than if you know whatunderlayment goes underneath
this particular hardwood or not,right? I mean, it doesn't even
(09:25):
matter. We could teach thatthat's the widget, right? And
then the, the other myths thatyou'd mentioned, which was what
was the other myth that youmentioned, which was, you know,
not being creative and owning afranchise like so. I think it's
people have that myth becausethey think of McDonald's, like
(09:47):
and honestly and what I'm aboutto express about McDonald's
could be not true. Okay, but Ihave I have this perception
about if I own McDonald's, likeeverything is so tight, that if
you turn over your left shoulderinstead of your right shoulder
to take Get the fries from thefryer into the little fried bin
where they pour all that salt onit. Like that's wrong, like so
like, that's my perception ofMcDonald's systems like it's
(10:07):
right or wrong. In mostfranchise brands, it's not like
that. Here's the playbook,here's the technology, here's
the product, here's the sellingsystem, here's, but based upon
your particular skill sets thatyou might have entering into
whatever brand it is that youchoose, you might operate a
little bit differently than Ioperated. And that's okay. And
because we all have differentbackgrounds, experiences and
(10:30):
skill sets, and that does allowyou to have even though it's the
same system in business, yourown flavor,
yep, 100%. And this is why Ithink it is so important for
franchisors to have greatvalidation amongst their
franchisees and for potentialfranchisees to take time to
(10:50):
validate with the currentfranchisees because that's when
you hear all these differentbackgrounds, let's say and I've
heard stories where you have asingle parent, single dad, with
with a few kids, he's worriedabout doing the business. And
having been able to spend timewith his family, he's able to go
validate with franchisees whoare who are in that exact same
(11:10):
spot or who were in that exactsame spot that we're getting
with in the creativity part. Butyou can do the same across the
board. I'm, I have a degree inengineering, how am I going to
go into this? And you know, howdo I put my own flavor on it,
you go and talk to thefranchisees who have done it who
are with that background? Youknow what I mean? And I think
it's, this is where I don'tthink we talk enough about
(11:30):
community when it comes tofranchising because the
franchisees become a communityand the franchisor does rely to
a certain extent, obviously,they are the franchisor but on
the franchisees for feedback andnew ideas, and that's how your
business grows. So I don't wantto speak to that and how
floorcoverings hasbeen I think that's like the
most under so if I was ininvestigating a franchise brand,
(11:52):
the average person that would bein my position if I was
investigating a franchise brandright now they're looking for
what am I going to get as far astraining goes from the
franchisor? How are they goingto help me how are they going to
help me how are they gonna helpme what oftentimes they don't
look for which I think is a bigmistake for somebody researching
a franchise brand is of coursethe corporate support and
(12:14):
involvement is very important.
That's why you go intofranchising, but also the
franchisee network. So beyondthe corporate team, the 100 shoe
and a 300 however manyfranchisees a particular brand
has how are they all interactingwith each other how are they all
helping and supporting eachother but then also to your
(12:35):
point how we're how we're thenthat that franchisee base, how
are they interacting with thecorporate team to help shape the
systems processes and proceduresand we're we believe that the
best practices come from thefield like and we build
platforms for the franchisees tohave little incubator
opportunities to kind of iterateand come up with new ideas. So a
(12:59):
floorcoverings national we havewhat's called a franchisee
Advisory Council and thefranchisee Advisory Council is
an elected group of seven oreight franchisees annually
they're elected by thefranchisee base that represents
the franchisee base on behalf ofthe base to corporate clinical
corporate right I hate using theword no we
don't we don't use corporatearound here but but
(13:21):
to the corporate office thehead. Yeah, exactly. But the the
franchisee Advisory Council hasregular meetings with the
corporate team to advise and youknow, be a sounding board for
new initiatives. But also someof the things that I that we do
that I think is really uniqueand awesome. Is it for each of
the deeper areas of ourbusiness. So whether it be
(13:42):
marketing technology thatparticular merchandise to the
products that we sell out in thefield. You know, retention of
salespeople at the franchiseelevel was a really important
aspect of our business. We havesome committees. So the
subcommittee is involved morefranchisees than just the
franchisee advisory council sothey can rapidly iterate and
(14:02):
talk through common issues anddealings with that the
franchisor having the field comeup with better practices based
upon their touch points withothers in the field. And then we
could bundle it up into astandard best practice across
our training systems and thingsof that nature. So yes, best
practices come from the field.
And I feel like this all goesback to why franchising because
(14:24):
I don't really know where elseyou're gonna find so that's so
collaborative and again thiscomes down to validating with
the franchise brands because notall are created equal I think
floorcoverings International isa great example of a brand and a
franchisor that values valuesvery highly the franchisee
(14:44):
perspective insights boots onthe ground bringing that back to
an encourages that. So not allare created equal. But I just
really again comes down to likeyeah, what are you looking for
with the brand? Kind of lost mytrain of thoughts? Now, but
anyway,I want to I want to just add to
that, because you're that thepower. So just like think about
it numbers wise. So it a lot ofpeople have the perception of
(15:07):
franchising that the corporateoffice, right, the bad corporate
corporate is going to tell mewhat to do, right? Which, okay,
if you say a franchiseorganization of 200 franchisees,
they might have 20 or 30 peoplein their corporate office. So
those 20 or 30 people working40 5060 hours a week, in this
bad scenario, they're going tocome up with the systems and the
(15:27):
best practices for the field.
Okay. Well, think about how manyhours that adds up to have
experienced that they candictate upon to the franchisees
whereas, if a franchiseorganization says that best
practices come from the groundup, you have at least three or
four or five, maybe employees atthe franchisee level X number of
(15:49):
hundreds of franchisees you havetheir years of experience,
right, so multiply all thoseworking hours. And that's
exactly what those bestpractices are coming from so
much more depth and time ofexperience when they come from
the field, as opposed to acorporate franchise entity
trying to dictate everythingthat happens out in the field,
(16:11):
it's just so much better. Andnot to mention for all the
franchisors out there for buy infrom your franchisee base. It's
so much more impactful whenyou're able to share that we got
this from Mr. And Mrs. Jones,who's performing at XYZ level,
as opposed to here's ourinitiative that you must do.
It's not yet proven, or maybe weproved it. And once instance, it
(16:32):
changesthe entire dynamic and culture.
Because we do at theentrepreneur sources. Well, we
have a franchise AdvisoryCommittee, and it is and it's
also it's that back and forth.
It's that collaboration betweenyour franchisees and the
franchisors, we say withoutsuccessful franchisees, we can't
be a successful franchisor. Soyou have to work together. And
(16:53):
we bring initiatives to them,and they bring initiatives to
us. So it goes both ways. Andthat I believe is a very healthy
franchise brand. Sowe want to facilitate more than
we dictate. Yes, we like to seemore round tables than we do,
you know, facing forward tables,right, like those that's really
important. No,that's a very good distinction
on that and question for anyfranchisors again, who are
(17:18):
listening, and maybe they havethis in place where they don't
How did that start with a floorcoverings International was very
intentional. A franchisorfranchisee Advisory Committee is
quite common. But and then thoselittle subcommittees was that
more organic.
counted that Yeah. So that so SoI joined floorcoverings
(17:38):
international over eight yearsago. And when I first started,
we had a franchisee advisorycouncil. So that was in place,
but then the subcommittee thingI want to say started maybe four
or five years ago. So it wasbefore COVID. But when COVID
hit, we had a COVID taskforcethat was part of a subcommittee,
right, it was a really importantinitiative in our business. But
um, that that was born out of Imean, we're part of a larger
(18:01):
organization of brands, like Imentioned earlier. So I believe
it was one of the betterpractices that another brand was
was doing. And we brought itover to us. And that's where it
came from. But I mean, again, itwas just another opportunity for
us to expand the way that wewere facilitating learning and
facilitating input. And I thinkthe wider you can go and the
more franchisees you can getinvolved in cohorts, let's just
(18:24):
call them and opportunities tokind of roundtable the better
off the franchise brand is. Yep.
I like the analogy of more browntables, as opposed to like the
front facing kind of directives.
Yes. For all people watchingthis video. If you're investing
in your franchise brand, I wantyou to ask the brand, do they
have round tables or frontfacing tables? And that's
everything you need to know.
(18:45):
And that should give you youranswer. That's all that's all.
No, it's very, very importantpiece of the puzzle that
sometimes gets lost in profitsand features and benefits. It
really is like looking atculture community and that and
that collaboration betweenfranchisor and franchisee when
you go okay, around mythssticking on this topic a little
(19:07):
bit longer. And we're talkingabout, you know, future
franchising, and all thesedifferent things right now.
Economic the economy comes up,I'm sure a lot in conversations
comes up at our main office withour franchisees across the
board. What do you hear frompotential franchisees? And how
do you work with that?
(19:27):
So right now, I mean, you hear alot of uncertainty, right? I
think it's if you fall,anything, the news, Twitter, you
know, whatever channel you puton, or even just people in the
grocery store chatting, right?
It's just it's uncertainty. Isit good? Is it not good? What
can we expect? Like then that's,and I think that for a
candidate, that's a that's amore confusing time to be in. I
(19:48):
think that in a rocket shiproller coaster in a kind of
Upswing economy, obviously forsomebody investigating and
business opportunity That's agreat thing. And then they wish
they'd be, you know, in greatposition to invest in something.
But also, if it's a for certainwe are in a downturn, certainty
actually is okay for peoplebecause they know what they're
(20:09):
getting into. So the two oneway, certainties good middle
feeling that a lot of people arehaving around the economy. It is
a topic that comes up a lot in avalidation process. And the way
that we handle it is, is just bysaying, Listen, I think it was
Jay Z that had this quote, menlie, women lie, but numbers
don't. Okay. And so we just say,let's look at the data, let's
(20:31):
look at let's look at theeconomic indicators that are
really going to impact thisparticular business over the
next three to five years,whether it's real estate trends,
macro, or micro, what interestrates have done to the real
estate market, but also what'shappening home and home equity,
how people might be more apt tospin in their home versus not
like these are all things thatare important to the remodeling
business. But when you put thefacts in front of candidates,
(20:52):
they actually go, oh, there'scertainty. And I can move
forward, right. So you have totake the uncertainty and make it
certain and facts do that. Andthen allow them to make
decisions based upon that. So Ithink, again, right now, for
everybody and friend, as youknow, you're talking to
(21:12):
candidates that are that are inuncertain economic times, and
whatever you can do to make themmore certain based upon data,
the better results you'll have,I think weaving that the data
with the client experience, itcreates just this certainty on
all fronts, where and this goesback to, we talk a ton about
(21:34):
client experience, and you kindof meet the client where they're
at. And right now, so manyclients are in that area of
feeling the uncertainty ofeconomy, employment, jobs,
financial security, like allthese different things. If you
can provide that clientexperience that meets them,
where they're at right now, sortof pushing them through sales
(21:55):
process, pushing them through,do franchising. This is just
doing it, it's going to work.
You provide the data, you givethem a little bit more
information a little bit moretime, some space, you do
coaching, we were talking aboutthis before, but you you're
coaching people on talking themthrough mindset and their
perspective and theirperception. And you're able to
(22:15):
help them get through that. AndI think that's really unique,
because other people are justgoing around just in blind
uncertainty and have no ideawhat's going to happen, or
they'renot addressing the issue. Right.
Right. Right. So you have toaddress it, right? It's Yes,
it's we're all living in thesame world, we're all working
the same headlines, we're allexposed the same social media.
And so I think that the morethat you can paint issues, read
(22:37):
and call it out and be willingto talk about it and have data
and facts to talk about. I thinkit also as somebody in a you
know, in the franchisedevelopment position, it also
gives you credibility as well,which is a good thing, because
the brand credibility as well,not afraid
to approach these things andtalk about them. And I think
when you just look at the bigpicture as well. And I know we
(22:59):
keep coming back to whyfranchising, but I think you
look across all these differentsectors and periods of time,
where just naturally you haveups and downs. It's just part of
what happens. And you see,franchising has just grown over
the long term. And yeah, andreally is on there's no decision
(23:22):
making it's learn likefranchisees, you are candidates,
you just take what you need,what do you want to learn? What
do you want to ask? Ask it,that's totally fine. And as a
franchisor be okay with peopleasking those questions and
wanting to know and beinguncertain, and it just takes all
that pressure off? I feel soquestions
(23:43):
are a sign of engagement. Yes.
And that's what we want. We wantpeople to be engaged with us so
that's a good thing.
So bring out the questionabsolute bring out all the
question about uncertainty. Sobut But overall, and bring us
into again, on that positivenote. When we look at future
franchising, I think they justsent out like an economic
report, but it's it is growingand I think actually coming out
(24:05):
of 2020 and 2021 people areseeing a lot of growth from from
before.
Listen, I think people I thinkthe American dream is to own a
small business Yeah, but it'sgenerally scary to invest life
savings and not knowing about anindustry you're not going to
operate. So to go into afranchise business where you can
have all the benefits of smallbusiness ownership plus have all
(24:28):
the systems tools processesprocedures network that we
talked about, you know,throughout the course of this
conversation. Yeah, franchisingwill always continue to grow
Yeah, of course. Yes, franchiseewill
grow. And I do and I love thatand was reiterate what you said
were people they want certainty.
So how can you take someone'suncertainty and create something
solid for them and again,knowledge so we were talking
(24:48):
about economy, but you takeanything uncertainty around
business ownership, uncertaintyaround an industry, uncertainty
around how muchmoney can I make your business
right You give them and youyou're able to give them
certainty about it. Maybe theychoose it, maybe they don't, but
at least they have knowledgethat they didn't before.
Exactly. And that's, that's whathelps they make an educated
(25:09):
decision. Okay. So you have aninteresting background where you
started in operations, with workofferings. I mean, you have very
varied background, but withfloorcoverings, started in
operations, and I've shiftedover to franchise development
and that more sales, I thinkthat in just on the franchisor
level, those two teams sometimescan work in silos, because
(25:32):
there's a lot going on yourfranchise development, we're
bringing in new people, we haveto, you know, we're constantly
wanting to bring in new people.
And then you have operationsteam who now take on those
people that the salespeople havesigned on, and they're working
on training and support. Thoseare very closely, they're very
tied together, but I don't thinkthey're always talking together.
(25:53):
I don't know what yourexperiences with that and how
you've kind of leveraged or ifyou've leveraged your background
and operations to weave thatinto the sales experience. That
was a lot. Oh,no, that's good. I mean, yeah, I
think in general, in anybusiness, manufacturing,
business, sales, and themanufacturing people in the
facility, they like they they'reat odds, right, because the
(26:14):
sales team is making promises,that's not necessarily founded
on what the manufacturing teamcould do. So in franchising,
it's just the development teamand the operations team. But it
really is sales inmanufacturing, right? It's, you
know, we're selling a dream, avision, a product, and then the
operations team really isdelivering on it. So ultimately,
whatever business there is,there's this natural kind of
(26:35):
butting of heads, but I think,so as far as my experience goes,
one of the things that I'm mostproud of, of floorcoverings
International is we really workhard to weave the two together,
because at the end of the day,in the long term, not the short
term, which sometimes it's easyto sacrifice, long term benefit
for short term gain. But in thelong term, and we try to get
(26:57):
everything long term, havinghigh performing franchise owners
makes the development team jobeasier. So if that's our goal,
then we have a lot of incentiveto work with the operations team
to understand who exactly is ourright candidate? What are we
willing to say works in oursystem in our model versus not,
(27:17):
and then holding tight to thatand the development process? So
a couple of things that we dotea that, you know, kind of a
light, but first and foremost,we don't. You know, it's not
like when we get together onetime a year at our annual
conference, like it's like, Idon't know, like that when the
aliens meet the humans like,it's like, Oh, there's the
operations team or the salesteam. Like, we look for
(27:38):
opportunities at least eighttimes a year where we get
together live human to humanwith the operations team,
because even though sometimesinterests can be competing, at
the end of the day, it's goodfor the teams to know that we're
all still human together. Andwe're all on the same team
working to achieve the sameoutcomes, right? So we have
eight times a year at least,where we bring teams together on
a bi weekly basis, our team ofoperations folks that works with
(28:02):
our most got our less leasttenured franchisees, the people
that are going through thetraining program, and are about
one year in business. We meetevery other week, the sales team
and the operations team meets.
And we talk about, okay, what'schanged in a training program?
What are we seeing that's goodin the training class, not good
the training class, and then atthe same time, kind of what is
(28:24):
our funnel look like? So theycan be prepared for, you know,
people say, who's signingagreement next week, who signed
an agreement two weeks, so it'severy other week, it's it's
built in process internally, sothat we are we are talking and
communicating. And then youknow, myself and a couple others
on our team, plus a coupleothers in the operations team,
we also meet on a bi weeklybasis as well, but in a separate
(28:47):
meeting, to talk through acrossthe system. So now, it's just
not about the earlierfranchisees, but across the
system, somebody 30 years inbusiness, again, what's working,
what's not in the field, thatway, I can bring that back to
the development team. So it's,yeah, the more you get
roundtables again, but the moreyou can have talking and
communication to break down thesilos is better and at the same
(29:10):
time, kind of just keeping thatend goal in mind which the end
goal is high performingfranchisees and the sales team
understand the benefit of that.
That's what's helped usknow, I love its long term,
because you look at it and wesay it's like emerging
franchisors emerging brands,you're you're not gonna make
money off your franchise fees.
It's your long term royalties,and if you have super successful
(29:33):
franchisees, those royalties aregoing to be even better and just
across the system, they talkedabout validation and all the
stuff. So I love that you talkedabout how you do it. Because
like on our side, we have Meetthe Team days so we do it
virtually now, which is workedout fantastic. So every single
member of the at least from eachteam is presenting during meet
(29:56):
the team and has a chance tointeract with the candidates.
And then we always do a pre Meetthe Team day and we do a post
Meet the Team day. And everyonewho participated has a chance to
say what they thought about thecandidates. And if it's a, it's
an it's basically an awardsapproval. But it comes from not
just okay franchise development,we checked off all the boxes,
(30:17):
good, we're done, we're sendingthem through, they sign the
agreement down, here you gooperations, it's very much a
conversation. And we do havediscussions where the operation
seems like, I don't know thatthis person is going to be able
to do XYZ, and we have adiscussion about it. So
everyone's on the same page, andit's not operations team and
training going, Why is thisperson here? You know, or down
(30:40):
the road? So I love that. Didyou guys do the did you? Did you
start implementing that? Wereyou they have floor coverings
been doing that for a while.
So a lot of these things, alittle bit of both. So we've
always had some type of cadence,and then I've refined it and
kind of tweaked it and, youknow, you know, we, at one
point, it was very loose, andnow we have more of a tight
(31:01):
agenda. So like, you know, it's,it's just, you know, one of our
core values is to practicecontinuous improvement. And
that's just something that, youknow, everybody talks about core
values, and they just kind ofsay it, but it's something that
we really try to livelove it. Another reason why we
love floor coveringsInternational. Okay, and I will
ask one more question. Andagain, this is more for
(31:21):
franchisors who are listeningemerging brands. stuff today, it
was good. I know, I know it was,but that's just where it went.
That's where the conversationwent naturally. How do you we
talked a lot about like yourfranchisee community, you got to
bring in the right people. Itstarts with the franchise
development team, long term, allof those things. How do you find
(31:41):
the right people for your brand?
Like? And is that something thatchanged over time, like when you
first started working infranchise development, or the
company had an idea to where itis now. So how do you attract
those right people? And how doyou figure out who your right
person is? Man? Okay,so it's a lot there. I know. I'm
(32:04):
queen of asking like 70questions.
I was like, 19 questions. So hasit changed?
Has your house okay, so how doyou find out who your ideal
candidate?
How do you? How do you know?
Right?
Has that changed over time? Yep.
And then how are you attractingthat person to your room? Sorry,
I had to raise that, becausewriting it down, everyone.
(32:26):
All right. So so ultimately, sohow do you know? So how do you
know is go back to the field,right? And so I think it's in
when you go back to the field,my encouragement would be you
don't just pick the top guy orgal, or, you know, you have your
top I like to say top third ortop 25%. So, you know, of the
(32:48):
top third or top 25% of afranchise network? What not,
what's their background? Becauseto me, that also was not very
important, but what skill setsdo they have? What experiences
do they have? What do whatenergizes them in the workplace,
what doesn't give them energy inthe workplace, like, so those
are the types of things likethat I would want to pay
(33:10):
attention to. In for us, it haschanged over time. So our model.
You know, we've been around for30 years. And you know, the
friend home from a franchisinghas changed a lot in 30 years.
And there are a lot of brandsthat are still like this, but
called Legacy home improvement,which was our which is kind of a
we call it main advantage, chuckin a truck, which for some
(33:30):
people, that's the rightbusiness model. It's not a
derogatory term, but you'rebuying yourself a business that,
you know, you're the soleoperator in which that's fine.
And over time, you know, ourvision is to build multimillion
dollar businesses. And in orderto do that, we need somebody
that's comfortable building andleading teams. And so it shifted
from, hey, I want to be in homeimprovement and have some
(33:52):
autonomy, but really no directreports, you know, keep this
really simple to somebody thatsays, No, I want to build a team
of people so that I can havelifestyle, freedom, equity,
things of that nature, in thebusiness that I'm building. And
so that has changed for us overtime. And I think that
attracting these individuals hasa lot. I mean, I said it very
(34:12):
plainly, just now it's like, youhave to say it, and then you
have to stick with it. And thenyou have to communicate it if
you know if you're a franchisedevelopment person, or you're a
franchise brand, and you'reworking with coaches. And you
have to be very clear, like,Hey, this is the type of
individual we're looking for.
And if somebody doesn't fit thatmold, that's okay. Say they
don't fit our mold and then havethe conversation and have the
(34:34):
conversation with the candidate.
But I found that actually, themore we've been really clear
about the right person for ourbusiness, the better candidates
will get that more match thatdescription. Then as we're
saying, Oh, hey, listen to wherethis great home improvement
brand says anyone that'sinterested in home improvement.
(34:55):
Well, that's not really helpfulto us or to even the candidate,
right because The candidatelooks at what our model is and
goes, it doesn't resonate withme. So I, I think it's a, so if
I just sum it up top third, butnot background, kind of likes,
dislikes, qualities, things ofthat nature has changed for us.
And you just got to be reallyclear about it and stick to
(35:16):
it. Yep. Okay. No, I think you,thank you for sharing that.
Because I think it is evolvingover time, especially if you are
a newer brand. You're listeningto this. And you're saying,
Okay, I don't want 30 years,well, take start, you can take
pieces of that, like, what kindof person are you looking for,
that's going to fit in with theculture? Are you looking for
some what the leadership skillsare looking for these different
things. And again, I'm nottalking about qualifying out,
(35:38):
when it comes to that, like, I'mjust talking to like different
qualities that you would want tobring into your organization.
You can even look at, I wouldsay like your home team, like
what are some of the qualitiesthere? And what do you really
like what has worked and how canyou bring in more people like
that, and it is going to changeover time, especially as you
build build it up, your firstfew franchisees are going to be
like your blue sky thinkers aregoing to be able to take risks
(36:01):
and use it for things that mightchange over time. As you bring
in more and more. I also likethat you're using you're taking
data from your, you know, yourexisting franchisees and you're
putting some certainty into the,into the who you're looking for
people liketo be around people that are
like them generally. Right? Andso, you know, franchisors should
look at their corporate teamdoes that depict what they kind
of would want out of afranchisee they just take a look
(36:22):
at their current existing baseof franchisees and realizing
that the people that you'rebringing into the organization
that you're slapping their logoon their chest, they're going to
be the people that will attractor repel the potential next wave
of folks that join yourorganization. It's really
important, becauseit all comes down to your
franchisees. A lot of differentfronts. Okay, if you were
(36:46):
granted the choice to have moremoney, or more time, which would
you choose? And why?
Hmm. Let's see. I'm probablygonna get the unpopular answer,
I'd say more money, because withmore money, you can invest in
assets to create more time. Sothat's, that's what I would say.
(37:08):
I love it. That's like the threemore wishes. Yeah. But that's
what it would be. It would be Iwould be, I'd say yeah, if I had
more money and more financialresources that I could invest in
more opportunities to createmore time for me and my family,
so I would get the time. Butstart with the money and that's
(37:30):
also a chicken or egg thing too.
But yeah, that's myphilosophical, but I'm good with
that answer. There's no right orwrong, Albert.
That's my substantiation.
Well, thanks so much, Albert.
This was fabulous. I just lovethat we got to do it in person.
So that sounds real high five.
Thank you guys so much fortuning in. And again, this is
Albert Herman's withfloorcoverings international
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