April 29, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode of Fresh Growth podcast, we have a special guest host – owner of Dirtworks Wyoming, Caitlin Youngquist. Caitlin is also a Western SARE Administrative Council member.
She speaks with first-generation Wyoming ranchers Mary Mills and Kate Brewster about their unique journeys into ranching, the challenges of generational transitions, and the innovative practices they are implementing to create sustainable and profitable operations. Their conversation touches on the importance of education, empathy, and clear communication in navigating family dynamics and the emotional aspects of transitioning ranch businesses. The conversation also highlights the integration of goats into traditional beef operations and the significance of adapting ranch management practices to modern challenges.
Kate and Mary remind us, "Change is hard for everybody, especially in agriculture".... and "don't be afraid to try stuff because that's how we learn."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 00 (00:08):
In this episode of Fresh Growth, we have a special
guest host, the owner ofDirtworks Wyoming, Caitlin
Youngquist.
Caitlin is also a Western SAREadministrative council member.
She speaks withfirst-generation Wyoming
ranchers, Mary Mills and KateBrewster, about their unique
journeys into ranching, thechallenges of generational
transitions, and the innovativepractices they are implementing
(00:28):
to create sustainable andprofitable operations.
Their conversation touches onthe importance of education,
empathy, and clear communicationin navigating family dynamics
and the emotional aspects oftransitioning ranch businesses.
The conversation alsohighlights the integration of
goats into traditional beefoperations and the significance
of adapting ranch managementpractices to modern challenges.
Speaker 03 (00:52):
Welcome to the Fresh Growth Podcast hosted by
Western SARE.
I'm Caitlin Youngquist.
It's a beautiful snowy day herein Northern Wyoming, and today
I'm joined by twofirst-generation Wyoming
ranchers.
I've had the pleasure ofworking with both Mary Mills and
Kate Brewster during my timewith the University of Wyoming
Extension, and I've always beenimpressed by their commitment to
learning and growing as bothindividuals and business owners,
(01:15):
and to their dedication totheir community and the ranching
industry.
So welcome both of you to theshow.
You're both first-generationranchers, and I would love to
hear a little bit more about theroad that brought you to
ranching.
Mary, would you tell us how yougot here?
Speaker 02 (01:28):
Yeah, thank you.
I grew up in Seattle,Washington.
I loved the outdoors.
My only experience withlivestock was trail rides and
Girl Scouts and petting zoos andthe zoo.
But I went to the University ofWyoming and I met my husband
(01:49):
there.
We both got our degrees and weweren't really planning on being
in ranching right away.
Andrew is the middle of fivechildren.
And although he always lovedthe ranch, we did not think we
would end up there.
We were going to...
He got a degree in accountingand was going to do that.
(02:10):
And then we ended up getting acall from...
Right at the beginning of 2015,and we started managing a ranch
then, we thought we'd have tosave up money for a few years
and kind of find a place and buyour way back in.
But we ended up back at thefamily place about six years
ago.
And so I guess I would say Imarried into it, but I didn't
(02:35):
realize I was when I did becausewe got married in 2011 and we
spent the next...
four years finishing ourdegrees and we were set to do
something else and then wepivoted and now we're in
ranching full-time.
Speaker 03 (02:52):
And so here you are.
We're glad to have you.
And Kate, how did you get here?
Speaker 01 (02:56):
Well, so I grew up in Southern California.
I know a lot of people love tohate on that and But I grew up
in Southern California and Igrew up with my grandparents
mostly.
And my grandpa worked on a...
Well, he didn't work there.
He helped on his friend's ranchin Oregon in the summertime.
(03:17):
So I grew up that we prettymuch spent all summer in cow
camp with grandma and grandpa ona fifth wheel camper.
And it was the coolest thingever.
And it was everything I everwanted to do.
When I was a little kid...
I would...
If you asked me what I wantedto be, I'd tell you I wanted to
be John Wayne.
So, there was that.
(03:39):
But I started working my wayup.
In high school, I worked forsome horse operations, equine
operations.
And then I went to CWC forequine science and management.
And then from there, I juststarted getting whatever job I
could get.
I mean, I started at the bottommucking stalls.
(04:00):
So...
I was hungry and I tookwhatever I could take.
And I worked at sale barns.
I worked on cow-calfoperations.
I doctored wheat pasturecalves.
So I got a lot of really coolopportunities to work all over
the western U.S.
and just grow from there.
I was really fortunate andblessed to have some amazing
(04:24):
mentors along the way thattaught me a lot.
And when I met my husband in2018, I was working for a
purebred operation over inGillette, Wyoming, and I met him
and it was downhill from there.
No, when I met him, I wasworking at a purebred operation
(04:49):
in Gillette and then we gottogether and And I moved over to
Ten Sleep to be with him on hisfamily operation.
And I've been here ever since.
Speaker 03 (05:01):
So now you're both owners and operators of cattle
ranches near the town of TenSleep, Wyoming, and have both
recently gone through somefamily transitions,
transitioning the ranch businessfrom one generation to the
next.
And those can be reallychallenging and a difficult
process.
What have you learned throughthat process?
Or what would you share withsomebody else who's been through
that or going through that sameprocess of generational
transition?
Kate, would you start?
Speaker 01 (05:25):
Okay, this is Kate Brewster.
So the hardest thing about afamily transition is the
emotions.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to be hard no matterwhat, no matter which family
we're talking about, no matterwho it is, it's going to be
difficult.
And I think the biggest thingsI learned was that You really
(05:50):
have to try to put the emotionaside and treat it as a business
if you're going to carry it onas a business.
I think an importantconversation to have with the
family is, is this a businessthat we are wanting to
transition or is this aninheritance that we're wanting
to pass out to the family whengrandpa passes, when dad goes?
(06:15):
You know, all those hardconversations we really don't
want to have.
But the best thing I can say tosomeone going through it is set
your boundaries and realizethat you have to make choices
for you and your family firstand foremost.
So set your boundaries andrealize that if things aren't
(06:38):
progressing in a way where youare guaranteed a future there,
you need to have thoseconversations.
And if it's not happening, thenyou might have to make some
really hard choices.
Speaker 03 (06:50):
Good reminders, thank you.
I
Speaker 02 (06:54):
would agree with that.
This is Mary Mills.
So, I guess my biggest takeawayfrom it, and Kate's right, the
emotions are really hard, butthe person with the most
incentive to see a ranchtransition through is you.
And this was a really hardthing for my husband and I to, I
(07:16):
guess, rectify, because...
we stood to gain the most fromit, it felt like.
But we really wanted to see theranch continue in the family,
and there were some really hardthings that needed to happen for
(07:37):
that to happen, and some reallydifficult conversations.
But I can't remember, I read anarticle once that said
something to that effect, isthat you are have to be the one
to make those steps.
And we did.
And we definitely had to behonest with ourselves, honest
(07:58):
with our family, and we neededthem to be honest as well with
what they wanted.
And so I would say being honestwith yourself, your family, and
then also firm in yourdeadlines.
We were...
We had backup plans because itwasn't...
You know, this wasn't the onlything we could ever do with our
(08:20):
entire lives.
And we needed it to work forour family as well as for them.
And we needed everybody to bekind of content at the end.
I wouldn't say that everyone is100% happy.
And I don't know that that'seven possible.
But I think that everybody'sstill talking to each other.
(08:43):
So I guess we've got that goingfor us.
Speaker 01 (08:46):
I understand what you mean.
You
Speaker 02 (08:50):
know, so I think we've got a win there.
I feel that most helpful totalk to others about their
personal experiences.
And that's a really tough thingbecause a lot of people don't
want to talk about it.
Even, you know, it feels verypersonal and it is very
personal.
It's family and it's alsobusiness.
(09:11):
And that's a really hard thing.
for some people to talk about,but I found that most helpful to
ask other people, how did theydo it and what were the steps
they took?
And I think having a thirdparty accountant and lawyer
really helped us move thetransition along.
Just having someone else to beaccountable to or setting
(09:36):
appointments and keeping them,like if it had just been up to
the family, And us, I don't knowthat we still would have it
done.
So just having those extrapeople involved that can
support, guide, and actuallyknow how it's gone for other
people, that seemed to be themost helpful for us.
Speaker 03 (10:00):
So having a good accountant and a good attorney
for sure is part of the process.
Where are some of the otherallies or unexpected allies
maybe that were helpful to youalong the way?
Speaker 02 (10:08):
I would just say friends, talking to them about
what they had been through andthings that had gone well,
things that had not.
Just trying to get an idea ofhow we could move forward and
keep that momentum going andactually accomplish what we set
out to do.
Speaker 03 (10:30):
Kate, was that similar to what you found?
Speaker 01 (10:33):
Yeah, I agree.
I think I have some other...
I have some thoughts to add tothat as well.
And this kind of goes back toour other question about the
process and sharing what otherpeople are going through.
I think that it's reallyimportant to have a lot of
(10:54):
empathy for this oldergeneration that is transitioning
the farm or ranch to the nextbecause things have changed so
much.
You know, most generations thatare transitioning these
operations are in their 70s.
I know the ranching communityis older than the farming
(11:15):
community even.
So the typical age for arancher.
So these are the generationwhere, you know, when their
grandfather passed the ranch tothem and their father, it was
done with a handshake becauseyou could still do that.
There wasn't all these lawyersand legal papers and document
(11:41):
and tax troubles and all thesethings that we have to worry
about nowadays.
They never had to worry aboutthat because it was a handshake
and done.
There you go.
And, you know, you knew thatwhen grandpa passed on, you were
getting the operation.
It was going to continue withyou.
And it's so different now.
(12:03):
And So much has changed duringtheir lifetime.
And I think that's important toconsider as well, because when
they were kids, you know, theycould you could support a family
on 100 head of cows if you hadthe right operation.
And now to support a family,you're looking at closer to 500
(12:25):
head of cows to comfortablysupport a family on an
operation.
So that's a huge shift.
a huge change, and they've gonethrough all these huge changes
of, you know, all the laws havechanged and the taxes have
changed, and then you introducedthe internet and social media,
(12:46):
and that's not a drag againstthem at all.
That's just to say, like, Ithink that's why it is so
difficult to do this transition,I think, more than ever now,
because so much has changed thatIt's not, you just have to be
(13:07):
very empathetic of that becausethey tend to be like, well, you
know, my granddad and I, we justshook hands and there we go.
Well, your granddad didn't haveto worry about inheritance tax
wiping out the entire familyfarm, you know?
So a lot has changed in thataspect.
In terms of what has been themost helpful, I would 100% agree
(13:32):
that that having a good team oflawyers and accountants really
matters.
Having a really good lawyerthat understands the law and has
everything so that it doesn'thave to be done again.
It's done once and it's doneright and you don't have to
worry about, oh, did we transferthose shares properly?
(13:55):
Is that lined out?
Is the land lined out?
What have we got going on here?
Because that is where It getsreally scary as the new producer
coming on to the, well, notcoming on to the operation, but
as the new producer taking overthe operation with all the legal
stuff nowadays, you have tohave it locked in.
(14:16):
And that's the scariest partfor us as a new producer, I
would say, in my opinion, is thefact that what if there's a
loophole and down the road, Iget slapped with government
taxes when dad passes on.
That's the scary things.
And so that's where having thegood accountant and the good
(14:37):
lawyer definitely makes a hugedifference because having that
peace of mind of like, nope,everything's lined out.
Everything's done properly.
We don't have to worry aboutinheritance tax.
We don't have to worry aboutthe property taxes changing,
about values of assets changingto where now we're going to just
have this huge jump in taxes orin estate stuff like that
(15:04):
because we dealt with that whenmy husband's grandma passed
away.
She only was a 1% owner of thebusiness at that point when she
passed away and we ended upowing over $80,000 in taxes.
So it's really scary when yougo through that.
And I think my father-in-lawgoing through that when his mom
(15:25):
passed of owing those taxes onthe ranch, I think that was
really eye-opening for him.
And that really did help usbecause he saw, oh my God, like
she only owned 1% of thisbusiness and we owed this much
in taxes.
What's going to happen to Markif something happens to me?
So I think another thing thatwas really, that I want to touch
(15:51):
on that was important for me asthe in-law is that when the
emotions are really high andalso I, might I add, as an
in-law that was active on theoperation.
I was there every day we loadedtrucks, every day we moved
cows, every day we sorted, everyday we cab.
So, very hands-on in theoperation, but being an in-law,
(16:16):
when the emotions flare betweenthe family, because during these
things they are going to, I hadto remind myself that my goal
was to be here to help myhusband, and that That's why I'm
here.
I'm here to help my husband.
I'm here to be a supportivespouse, whether you're the wife
(16:37):
or the husband in the situation.
And also, it's very, very hardon a marriage.
And I ended up reaching out totherapy because it's such a hard
process.
It's such a hard transition.
Ours was very emotional.
And there's no shame there.
(16:58):
and going and asking for helpand getting that help because at
the end of the day, yourmarriage still needs to come
first and you have to take careof your marriage through these
difficult transitions and youreally have to be a team and see
it as this is us against theissue of transition.
This is us against the issue ofmaking sure all the paperwork's
(17:23):
done and not taking it on as,this disaster that your life's
falling apart because it canfeel like that.
It really can when emotions gethigh and you are in the middle
of it and you're just like, it'sso hard on a marriage.
So to remember that seekinghelp is sometimes really
(17:44):
important and remembering thatyou guys are still a team and
that your marriage does need tocome first.
Speaker 03 (17:54):
So Mary, you also have a young family.
How do you plan to make thisnext transition different with
your children when they get tothe point of wanting to make
decisions about staying with theranch or moving on?
Speaker 02 (18:05):
Yeah.
So my kids are seven and 10currently, and that is a lot of
our focus through thistransition has been, we
basically go from the ranch hasbeen transferred to us and now
we are looking at building aplan for for the next generation
(18:25):
because there was a lot ofconfusion and question on the
last transition on how it wasgoing to go how we would make
this work and I recentlyattended a ranching for profit
seminar and one of the thingsthey said there that really
stuck with me is you do not oweyour children a job or an
(18:47):
inheritance you do owe themclarity that's really good and I
think That would have gone areally long ways in our case.
My husband started asking hisfamily, like when he was 16,
what's the plan for the ranch,guys?
How is this going to work?
And he was always just told,oh, we'll see, you know, for the
(19:11):
next 10, 15 years.
And so I think that reallygives your kids, you know, if
you are straightforward withthem, and telling them, you
know, this is the plan.
You know, you have theopportunity to do this.
But I think also saying, youdon't need to do this.
(19:32):
Because I think I've seen a lotof families where maybe someone
stayed out of an obligationthat they felt, not necessarily,
you know, their love ofranching or their love of the
business or whatever.
And I think I would rather mykids want to stay.
(19:56):
So that is part of it is wewant to create a business that
they are excited to be a partof.
And then we need to be clearwith them on what that looks
like going forward.
And we don't have that figuredout yet, but we just took
ownership a couple months ago.
So I feel like we do have alittle time to work that out and
(20:19):
figure it out.
But I think that's the goal isclarity with our children and
saying that we own this and thatsomeday you can, and here are
the steps that you can take toown this.
Speaker 03 (20:34):
I think it's such a huge gift to the next generation
to provide them with theclarity and that on-ramp, if
that's what they choose to do.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (20:41):
And to not feel guilty.
I mean, equal is not alwaysfair and fair is not always
equal.
The thing is, I mean,operations used to be able to
split up and still be viable.
That's not the case for thisoperation.
It can't be split and still bea viable operation for a job
(21:05):
anymore.
So it has to go to one personand they have to figure out how
to make it work and how to moveforward with that.
So yeah, we have a lot of workcut out for us, I think.
Speaker 03 (21:20):
I really respect and appreciate you both and have
enjoyed watching you go throughthis transition and how
committed you are to seeing itthrough and taking care of your
families and just making surethings are done right.
I want to switch gears a littlebit, Kate.
You received a Western SareFarmer Rancher Grant and have
added goats to your verytraditional beef ranching
operation.
(21:40):
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 01 (21:43):
Yeah.
So, yes, that's a great way toput it.
We were a very traditionalcowboy type beef operation.
And adding goats was definitelyan interesting twist.
But we...
So, coming into it, my SAREgrant project is we're
(22:07):
studying...
goat grazing and how it affectsseeding new perennials while
also removing invasive weeds.
And what we're looking at istheir hoof traffic and seeding
sites before and after they comein and graze the area to see
how their hoof traffic affectsplanting.
(22:28):
So if we seed before, doestheir hoof impact help plant
those seeds?
Because we're just going to beair seeding.
And then also if we seed after,does that hoof traffic help
break that soil up and get itprepared for seeding better?
And then also looking atreducing and removing the
(22:51):
invasive weed species and ifgrazing them while seeding helps
that new perennial grasses toestablish better and essentially
choke out the weeds becausethey've been grazed down before
or very soon after.
seeding.
So we started with the goatsbecause it was another little
(23:14):
side income.
And I actually just startedwith feeder kids.
So we weren't even grazing themat all.
It was just some feeder kids tofeed out and resell when we got
the pounds on them to get themup to wait for butcher to become
a We quickly noticed how wellthey did around the barn and how
(23:34):
well they ate stuff down, sothen we kind of expanded from
there.
I got some red does, and itjust kind of exploded from
there.
They definitely have made ahuge impact, and so...
That is why we have grown somuch with them, because they
(23:56):
have done a fantastic job ofcleaning up the weeds.
And the results we've seen withthem have been pretty
ridiculous, actually.
It's been pretty mind-blowing.
How
Speaker 03 (24:07):
many do you have now?
Speaker 01 (24:09):
So we're running about 100 head of bread does, of
mother does a year.
Speaker 03 (24:14):
And you've been talking a little bit about
expanding to maybe send some ofthe goats out for grazing and
weed control to some of theneighbors.
Speaker 01 (24:22):
Yeah, so we've had a lot of interest in having them
come work other operations andjust clear ground or just come
up and clean river bottom,especially.
We have a lot of river bottomhere in Tensleep area.
We've got the no wood and thenover Hyattville, they've got the
paint rock.
And so there's been a lot ofinterest in it.
(24:45):
And really and truly, all I'mwaiting on is getting enough
head of does to go and gettingthe logistics of it figured out.
And we're going to be headingto some other operations to help
clean up some weeds.
Speaker 03 (25:02):
So that's really great.
I know you're also committed toa low input operation and being
very intentional around yourgenetics and making sure you're
keeping animals that thrive inyour system.
Tell us more about that.
Speaker 01 (25:13):
So we are really focusing on using our adaptive
genetics by selecting goats thatfit our standards.
We're focusing on not worming.
So we don't worm our doesunless they need it.
And if they need to get wormed,they go on our list and they go
(25:34):
to town.
We don't trim hooves.
We do not kid in a barn and wedo not jug them.
A lot of guys...
that run goats treat them likesheep and they kid them in March
and they jug them in a barn andthey rotate them into a kind of
a maternity pen.
And then they go out into thebig, the pasture, the fields,
(25:56):
whatever they're doing.
And there's nothing wrong withthat at all.
But we didn't want to take thatapproach because A, we don't
have the facilities to do that.
It would cost a lot to buildthat infrastructure.
And B, We are cattlemen, so wetreat them like cows, kind of.
And we're like, well, I don'tsee why not.
(26:17):
I don't see why you can't justkid on your own and raise a kid
and go from there.
So they kid out on pasture.
And if you don't take your kidsand get them up and going, they
go to town.
We don't rotate them for aboutthe month of kidding just
because we do realize those kidsare not quite big enough to
(26:39):
travel that far.
But we have them set up wherethey have their bed ground and
they can kid and drop their kidsthere.
We have guard dogs with them.
We run three head of guarddogs.
So they are protected and thosedoes are expected to do it on
their own and make it work.
Speaker 03 (27:00):
It's been really fun to watch that grow and get to
see the part of the operationreally add to the ranch.
Where can people find you ifthey want more information about
your goats and your ranch?
What's your website?
Speaker 01 (27:09):
So our website is Brewster, B-R-E-W-S-T-E-R,
Ranch, R-A-N-C-H, Y-O, W-Y-O,and that is .com.
But we are also on Facebook andInstagram as Brewster Ranch,
Y-O.
So you can find us there andlearn more about the goats and
(27:33):
everything we're doing withthem.
Speaker 03 (27:37):
Mary, I know you and Andrew pursued some of your own
education around grazing andranch management before you came
back to the family place.
And it's been fun to watch youover the years make some changes
on some of your grazing andcattle management, implementing
some winter grazing and a fewother things.
Will you tell us a little bitabout what you've added to your
operation and also where you'vepursued some of your education
and what's been really helpfulto you?
Speaker 02 (27:59):
Yeah, thank you.
So we were running a ranchand...
the owner wanted to do organicbeef.
He wanted to raise organicbeef.
And we came into the operationwith the goal of turning a
profit.
So we had our eye on that, andAndrew wanted to find a way to
(28:24):
create organic beef in aprofitable way.
The owner wanted to do it in avery conventional way, wanted to
raise organic hay and organicsilage and feed in a feedlot.
And we weren't super excitedabout that.
So we went and we took agrazing school from Jim Garish.
(28:50):
He does management intensivegrazing.
And honestly, I would say thatschool changed our life.
We...
had our eyes open to all thesedifferent possibilities
available through using electricfence and grazing irrigated
(29:14):
ground.
And when we came back to thefamily place, we showed up in
the winter right before calving.
And so we were, you know, wewere doing the traditional way,
feeding the cows every day.
We had a ton of hay to feed up.
Our heifers were in a feedlotat the ranch, and we were
(29:38):
feeding them every day.
And I turned to Andrew one day,and I said, we're not doing
this another year like this,because we had already tried
some things at the other ranchwe were at, and I do not enjoy
beating my head against thewall, haying all summer.
(29:58):
We have some irrigationtroubles.
The irrigation is just not verydeveloped on our place right
now, and so they would take onecutting from everywhere, and
then we wouldn't be able to getit wet again, and it would just
burn up, and there would benothing.
Also, where our cows werecalving, they were able to get
(30:21):
down on the creek, and thatfirst winter, I'm pretty sure we
lost five or six calves, andthen also their mothers left the
herd as well because theyweren't raising a calf.
So it was kind of a devastatingthing that I was a part of, and
I said, we've got to get thesecows off of here.
There's no reason to be losingthese calves in this way.
(30:45):
So we spent $7,000.
We got ourselves a fencer.
We built ourselves a skeletonof electric fence around the
ranch and paid for itselfmultiple times the very next
winter, which is just so amazingto me.
We went from haying everythingto only haying our side rolls
(31:10):
because we can actually getthose wet again.
And so we grew our hay fields,just we grew them tall and let
them be.
And we could irrigate them onceor twice.
And they were actually able tohold the water because they had
so much cover on them.
(31:30):
And so we go into the wintergrazing season with about, I
don't know, three to four feetof grass.
They have been grazing it inFebruary, March, April.
We've pushed our calving amonth this year, so we haven't
really even started with it yetthis year.
(31:53):
But we move our electric fenceevery day to a new patch of
ground.
on our irrigated ground and thecows are able to eat it.
And it's so amazing to me.
I mean, it's like, I can'tremember.
I think it was three degreesout this morning.
But you get down on the groundnext to where that grass is
(32:15):
growing near the ground and wehave green grass down there that
those cows are eating inJanuary and February, which has
just been pretty amazing to me.
I guess we like to do a lowinput system.
I don't like to feed cows.
I don't like to put up hay.
(32:35):
I guess I should say I don'tlike to feed cows with a
tractor.
Going out and moving electricfence every day is super fun for
me.
We get to see the cows, theyget excited, and they get fresh
ground every day.
And when we were calvingearlier, that really helped with
(32:56):
our the health of our calves ishaving that fresh ground every
day for them to be available.
So that was one major change wedid was simply growing our hay
fields up and then grazing themoff in the winter.
Definitely helped with waterretention.
We didn't get much water onthem, but whatever we do get on
(33:18):
is utilized and is held there inthe soil, which is pretty
amazing.
A few other things that we'vedone.
Like I said, our heifers, ourreplacement heifers used to be
in a feedlot fed for ever sincethey were weaned all the way up
through breeding, you know,their first breeding season.
(33:39):
And the first year that we didthat, that was another moment
where we went, we're not doingthis again.
Feedlots aren't for us.
I'm sure they work great forother people, but For our
low-end boat system, I wouldrather they put their manure out
on the fields themselves.
So we shortened our calvingwindow on our heifers down to 45
(34:04):
to 60 days.
That's been a real help to usas well.
We just have not a lot ofpeople helping with calving, and
so if we can tighten thosewindows up, that helps us.
with that and then also withour breed back.
For genetics, I guess somethingmy husband actually read in a
(34:27):
Chip Hines book was, if one can,they all should.
And I really like that because,I mean, I think sometimes we
get confused and think that wework for the cows.
But really, The cows are thereworking for us and they need to
work for us and they need towork for our environment and
(34:49):
they need to work for what wehave available for them.
They need to be able to providethat.
So I think that's been a lot ofour transition is the cows that
can work for us.
And there definitely had beensome fall out of the herd and
(35:10):
now our herd is coming backWe've been back for six years,
and our herd is starting to growagain.
But it's nice to have cows thatare going to do the work.
We did do some cover crops.
We don't do a lot with itbecause, like I said, our
(35:31):
irrigation leaves some things tobe desired.
But we do mess around with someno-till drilling, and we do
that honestly just in case.
fields that we want to helpalong.
And it's had some mixedresults.
I do enjoy experimenting withit though, especially when you,
(35:53):
I don't know, when you use ano-till drill, it's like you're
saving all those farming steps.
And so why not throw some seedsin the ground and see what
happens?
But yeah, I feel like I rambledon there and I'm not sure if I
hit what I was supposed to, but
Speaker 01 (36:10):
No, I love that, Mary.
Just to make a comment here.
I think that is so, that's sucha great quote that if one can,
they all should, because wetotally approach it the same way
of they work for us, we don'twork for them.
So that if one can, they allshould is like, well, she did
(36:30):
it.
So what are the rest of youdoing?
I love it.
Speaker 03 (36:35):
As we all know, change is hard, and change is
hard for everybody, and it'sespecially hard in an industry
that values tradition and haslongevity in many of these
family operations.
So as we're wrapping up, justthinking about that and
listening to both of you talkand thinking about how you've
worked with your spouses and thefamilies to make incremental
changes and positive changes,what would you say to somebody
(36:56):
else who is looking to make someof these changes towards more
sustainable, low-inputoperations and more profitable
operations?
And what would you share withthem as they were wanting to
figure out how to make some ofthese changes and maybe
communicate with others abouthow to make these changes?
Speaker 01 (37:11):
I'll let you go first, Mary.
Unless you want me to, but Ithink you've got really good
insight on this.
All right.
I guess
Speaker 02 (37:20):
for us, it was figure out, for one, what makes
money and what doesn't.
And Don't lie to yourselfsaying that because you made
that hay that that hay was free,because it wasn't.
And also, as far as we go, wearen't making the best hay.
(37:45):
I know that somebody that's outthere that they make hay for a
living, that's going to be thebest hay that I could feed my
cows, not the hay that I'm, youknow, putting up.
But I think just looking at theinputs and saying, you know, we
don't need to do that, it'skind of hard to say because you
just start making changes.
(38:07):
And we kind of live out wherenobody really drives by, so it's
easier.
There aren't a lot of peoplethat ask questions and say, what
are you doing all that weirdstuff?
I guess just don't be afraid totry stuff because that's how we
learn.
And I would say...
The game has changed from yearsago and you can't keep doing it
(38:34):
the way it's always been donebecause that doesn't pay
anymore.
So you got to be honest withyour numbers and honest with
what you can do.
Like I said, I don't likehaying and I don't like feeding
hay.
So that was a real good placefor us to start and figure out
(38:54):
how we could do thatdifferently.
Speaker 01 (38:57):
I would say I completely agree with Mary in
terms of like, I think the thingthat helps the most is run the
numbers.
Run the numbers.
Because if you get thosenumbers out, the numbers don't
lie.
There's no emotion behind thenumbers.
There's no feelings.
There's no this or that.
run the numbers and see whatworks for your operation.
(39:21):
And I also think for us, atleast, a big thing is being
honest about what kind ofoperation you have and what do
you have available to you.
Our river bottom, we have about120, 140 acres of irrigated
ground to our pivots.
(39:42):
And The one pivot is achallenge because the ground is
a challenge.
It's very alkali.
It gets washed out.
It gets washed out by theriver.
All these things.
I could go into so much detailon it.
But at the end of the day, wehad to be honest with ourselves
and look at our operation forwhat it is and what challenges
(40:05):
we have with Mother Nature andwhat are our honest limitations.
Because if you have this greatfarm in Iowa...
where you have a thousand acresof farm ground, you have a
totally different game than Ihave out here in rural, dry, bad
lands of Wyoming.
(40:25):
So looking at your operationfor what it is, being honest
about it, being honest with it,and using what you've got to the
best of your ability andrunning the numbers to go with
that.
Because there's guys that cando So many cool, crazy things in
(40:46):
different parts of the worldthat I can't even grow what
they're growing.
So I think that's huge to me islooking at that.
And then, like I said, run thenumbers.
The numbers don't lie.
If it's going to pencil,consider it.
Because right now in this worldand in agriculture that we're
(41:07):
in, it's so hard to make itpencil.
I mean, our cattle market thisyear is amazing, so that's
great.
But every other year, youreally got to look at your
numbers.
So I think that's really big.
And that's a way, I think, withthe family operations where
(41:28):
you're dealing withmulti-generations, it's, hey,
okay, let's count how manygallons of fuel we're using to
plow this field and to till thesoil and to do all these things.
Let's figure it out.
Let's get the numbers and let'ssee what the numbers say
because they can't lie.
Speaker 03 (41:49):
Well, thank you both.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and you both bring
a lot of creativity and clarityto the family operations there.
I look forward to watching howthat evolves in coming years as
you continue to develop thebusiness and continue to take
care of the land and work withthe family and lead in your
community.
So thank you for joining metoday and keep up the good work.
Speaker 02 (42:08):
Thanks, Caitlin.
Okay,
Speaker 00 (42:11):
thank you.
Thank you for listening toFresh Growth.
We hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
For more information on WesternSARE grants and our learning
resources, visitwesternsare.org.
In this episode of Fresh Growth, we have a special
guest host, the owner ofDirtworks Wyoming, Caitlin
Youngquist.
Caitlin is also a Western SAREadministrative council member.
She speaks withfirst-generation Wyoming
ranchers, Mary Mills and KateBrewster, about their unique
journeys into ranching, thechallenges of generational
transitions, and the innovativepractices they are implementing
(00:28):
to create sustainable andprofitable operations.
Their conversation touches onthe importance of education,
empathy, and clear communicationin navigating family dynamics
and the emotional aspects oftransitioning ranch businesses.
The conversation alsohighlights the integration of
goats into traditional beefoperations and the significance
of adapting ranch managementpractices to modern challenges.
Speaker 03 (00:52):
Welcome to the Fresh Growth Podcast hosted by
Western SARE.
I'm Caitlin Youngquist.
It's a beautiful snowy day herein Northern Wyoming, and today
I'm joined by twofirst-generation Wyoming
ranchers.
I've had the pleasure ofworking with both Mary Mills and
Kate Brewster during my timewith the University of Wyoming
Extension, and I've always beenimpressed by their commitment to
learning and growing as bothindividuals and business owners,
(01:15):
and to their dedication totheir community and the ranching
industry.
So welcome both of you to theshow.
You're both first-generationranchers, and I would love to
hear a little bit more about theroad that brought you to
ranching.
Mary, would you tell us how yougot here?
Speaker 02 (01:28):
Yeah, thank you.
I grew up in Seattle,Washington.
I loved the outdoors.
My only experience withlivestock was trail rides and
Girl Scouts and petting zoos andthe zoo.
But I went to the University ofWyoming and I met my husband
(01:49):
there.
We both got our degrees and weweren't really planning on being
in ranching right away.
Andrew is the middle of fivechildren.
And although he always lovedthe ranch, we did not think we
would end up there.
We were going to...
He got a degree in accountingand was going to do that.
(02:10):
And then we ended up getting acall from...
Right at the beginning of 2015,and we started managing a ranch
then, we thought we'd have tosave up money for a few years
and kind of find a place and buyour way back in.
But we ended up back at thefamily place about six years
ago.
And so I guess I would say Imarried into it, but I didn't
(02:35):
realize I was when I did becausewe got married in 2011 and we
spent the next...
four years finishing ourdegrees and we were set to do
something else and then wepivoted and now we're in
ranching full-time.
Speaker 03 (02:52):
And so here you are.
We're glad to have you.
And Kate, how did you get here?
Speaker 01 (02:56):
Well, so I grew up in Southern California.
I know a lot of people love tohate on that and But I grew up
in Southern California and Igrew up with my grandparents
mostly.
And my grandpa worked on a...
Well, he didn't work there.
He helped on his friend's ranchin Oregon in the summertime.
(03:17):
So I grew up that we prettymuch spent all summer in cow
camp with grandma and grandpa ona fifth wheel camper.
And it was the coolest thingever.
And it was everything I everwanted to do.
When I was a little kid...
I would...
If you asked me what I wantedto be, I'd tell you I wanted to
be John Wayne.
So, there was that.
(03:39):
But I started working my wayup.
In high school, I worked forsome horse operations, equine
operations.
And then I went to CWC forequine science and management.
And then from there, I juststarted getting whatever job I
could get.
I mean, I started at the bottommucking stalls.
(04:00):
So...
I was hungry and I tookwhatever I could take.
And I worked at sale barns.
I worked on cow-calfoperations.
I doctored wheat pasturecalves.
So I got a lot of really coolopportunities to work all over
the western U.S.
and just grow from there.
I was really fortunate andblessed to have some amazing
(04:24):
mentors along the way thattaught me a lot.
And when I met my husband in2018, I was working for a
purebred operation over inGillette, Wyoming, and I met him
and it was downhill from there.
No, when I met him, I wasworking at a purebred operation
(04:49):
in Gillette and then we gottogether and And I moved over to
Ten Sleep to be with him on hisfamily operation.
And I've been here ever since.
Speaker 03 (05:01):
So now you're both owners and operators of cattle
ranches near the town of TenSleep, Wyoming, and have both
recently gone through somefamily transitions,
transitioning the ranch businessfrom one generation to the
next.
And those can be reallychallenging and a difficult
process.
What have you learned throughthat process?
Or what would you share withsomebody else who's been through
that or going through that sameprocess of generational
transition?
Kate, would you start?
Speaker 01 (05:25):
Okay, this is Kate Brewster.
So the hardest thing about afamily transition is the
emotions.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to be hard no matterwhat, no matter which family
we're talking about, no matterwho it is, it's going to be
difficult.
And I think the biggest thingsI learned was that You really
(05:50):
have to try to put the emotionaside and treat it as a business
if you're going to carry it onas a business.
I think an importantconversation to have with the
family is, is this a businessthat we are wanting to
transition or is this aninheritance that we're wanting
to pass out to the family whengrandpa passes, when dad goes?
(06:15):
You know, all those hardconversations we really don't
want to have.
But the best thing I can say tosomeone going through it is set
your boundaries and realizethat you have to make choices
for you and your family firstand foremost.
So set your boundaries andrealize that if things aren't
(06:38):
progressing in a way where youare guaranteed a future there,
you need to have thoseconversations.
And if it's not happening, thenyou might have to make some
really hard choices.
Speaker 03 (06:50):
Good reminders, thank you.
I
Speaker 02 (06:54):
would agree with that.
This is Mary Mills.
So, I guess my biggest takeawayfrom it, and Kate's right, the
emotions are really hard, butthe person with the most
incentive to see a ranchtransition through is you.
And this was a really hardthing for my husband and I to, I
(07:16):
guess, rectify, because...
we stood to gain the most fromit, it felt like.
But we really wanted to see theranch continue in the family,
and there were some really hardthings that needed to happen for
(07:37):
that to happen, and some reallydifficult conversations.
But I can't remember, I read anarticle once that said
something to that effect, isthat you are have to be the one
to make those steps.
And we did.
And we definitely had to behonest with ourselves, honest
(07:58):
with our family, and we neededthem to be honest as well with
what they wanted.
And so I would say being honestwith yourself, your family, and
then also firm in yourdeadlines.
We were...
We had backup plans because itwasn't...
You know, this wasn't the onlything we could ever do with our
(08:20):
entire lives.
And we needed it to work forour family as well as for them.
And we needed everybody to bekind of content at the end.
I wouldn't say that everyone is100% happy.
And I don't know that that'seven possible.
But I think that everybody'sstill talking to each other.
(08:43):
So I guess we've got that goingfor us.
Speaker 01 (08:46):
I understand what you mean.
You
Speaker 02 (08:50):
know, so I think we've got a win there.
I feel that most helpful totalk to others about their
personal experiences.
And that's a really tough thingbecause a lot of people don't
want to talk about it.
Even, you know, it feels verypersonal and it is very
personal.
It's family and it's alsobusiness.
(09:11):
And that's a really hard thing.
for some people to talk about,but I found that most helpful to
ask other people, how did theydo it and what were the steps
they took?
And I think having a thirdparty accountant and lawyer
really helped us move thetransition along.
Just having someone else to beaccountable to or setting
(09:36):
appointments and keeping them,like if it had just been up to
the family, And us, I don't knowthat we still would have it
done.
So just having those extrapeople involved that can
support, guide, and actuallyknow how it's gone for other
people, that seemed to be themost helpful for us.
Speaker 03 (10:00):
So having a good accountant and a good attorney
for sure is part of the process.
Where are some of the otherallies or unexpected allies
maybe that were helpful to youalong the way?
Speaker 02 (10:08):
I would just say friends, talking to them about
what they had been through andthings that had gone well,
things that had not.
Just trying to get an idea ofhow we could move forward and
keep that momentum going andactually accomplish what we set
out to do.
Speaker 03 (10:30):
Kate, was that similar to what you found?
Speaker 01 (10:33):
Yeah, I agree.
I think I have some other...
I have some thoughts to add tothat as well.
And this kind of goes back toour other question about the
process and sharing what otherpeople are going through.
I think that it's reallyimportant to have a lot of
(10:54):
empathy for this oldergeneration that is transitioning
the farm or ranch to the nextbecause things have changed so
much.
You know, most generations thatare transitioning these
operations are in their 70s.
I know the ranching communityis older than the farming
(11:15):
community even.
So the typical age for arancher.
So these are the generationwhere, you know, when their
grandfather passed the ranch tothem and their father, it was
done with a handshake becauseyou could still do that.
There wasn't all these lawyersand legal papers and document
(11:41):
and tax troubles and all thesethings that we have to worry
about nowadays.
They never had to worry aboutthat because it was a handshake
and done.
There you go.
And, you know, you knew thatwhen grandpa passed on, you were
getting the operation.
It was going to continue withyou.
And it's so different now.
(12:03):
And So much has changed duringtheir lifetime.
And I think that's important toconsider as well, because when
they were kids, you know, theycould you could support a family
on 100 head of cows if you hadthe right operation.
And now to support a family,you're looking at closer to 500
(12:25):
head of cows to comfortablysupport a family on an
operation.
So that's a huge shift.
a huge change, and they've gonethrough all these huge changes
of, you know, all the laws havechanged and the taxes have
changed, and then you introducedthe internet and social media,
(12:46):
and that's not a drag againstthem at all.
That's just to say, like, Ithink that's why it is so
difficult to do this transition,I think, more than ever now,
because so much has changed thatIt's not, you just have to be
(13:07):
very empathetic of that becausethey tend to be like, well, you
know, my granddad and I, we justshook hands and there we go.
Well, your granddad didn't haveto worry about inheritance tax
wiping out the entire familyfarm, you know?
So a lot has changed in thataspect.
In terms of what has been themost helpful, I would 100% agree
(13:32):
that that having a good team oflawyers and accountants really
matters.
Having a really good lawyerthat understands the law and has
everything so that it doesn'thave to be done again.
It's done once and it's doneright and you don't have to
worry about, oh, did we transferthose shares properly?
(13:55):
Is that lined out?
Is the land lined out?
What have we got going on here?
Because that is where It getsreally scary as the new producer
coming on to the, well, notcoming on to the operation, but
as the new producer taking overthe operation with all the legal
stuff nowadays, you have tohave it locked in.
(14:16):
And that's the scariest partfor us as a new producer, I
would say, in my opinion, is thefact that what if there's a
loophole and down the road, Iget slapped with government
taxes when dad passes on.
That's the scary things.
And so that's where having thegood accountant and the good
(14:37):
lawyer definitely makes a hugedifference because having that
peace of mind of like, nope,everything's lined out.
Everything's done properly.
We don't have to worry aboutinheritance tax.
We don't have to worry aboutthe property taxes changing,
about values of assets changingto where now we're going to just
have this huge jump in taxes orin estate stuff like that
(15:04):
because we dealt with that whenmy husband's grandma passed
away.
She only was a 1% owner of thebusiness at that point when she
passed away and we ended upowing over $80,000 in taxes.
So it's really scary when yougo through that.
And I think my father-in-lawgoing through that when his mom
(15:25):
passed of owing those taxes onthe ranch, I think that was
really eye-opening for him.
And that really did help usbecause he saw, oh my God, like
she only owned 1% of thisbusiness and we owed this much
in taxes.
What's going to happen to Markif something happens to me?
So I think another thing thatwas really, that I want to touch
(15:51):
on that was important for me asthe in-law is that when the
emotions are really high andalso I, might I add, as an
in-law that was active on theoperation.
I was there every day we loadedtrucks, every day we moved
cows, every day we sorted, everyday we cab.
So, very hands-on in theoperation, but being an in-law,
(16:16):
when the emotions flare betweenthe family, because during these
things they are going to, I hadto remind myself that my goal
was to be here to help myhusband, and that That's why I'm
here.
I'm here to help my husband.
I'm here to be a supportivespouse, whether you're the wife
(16:37):
or the husband in the situation.
And also, it's very, very hardon a marriage.
And I ended up reaching out totherapy because it's such a hard
process.
It's such a hard transition.
Ours was very emotional.
And there's no shame there.
(16:58):
and going and asking for helpand getting that help because at
the end of the day, yourmarriage still needs to come
first and you have to take careof your marriage through these
difficult transitions and youreally have to be a team and see
it as this is us against theissue of transition.
This is us against the issue ofmaking sure all the paperwork's
(17:23):
done and not taking it on as,this disaster that your life's
falling apart because it canfeel like that.
It really can when emotions gethigh and you are in the middle
of it and you're just like, it'sso hard on a marriage.
So to remember that seekinghelp is sometimes really
(17:44):
important and remembering thatyou guys are still a team and
that your marriage does need tocome first.
Speaker 03 (17:54):
So Mary, you also have a young family.
How do you plan to make thisnext transition different with
your children when they get tothe point of wanting to make
decisions about staying with theranch or moving on?
Speaker 02 (18:05):
Yeah.
So my kids are seven and 10currently, and that is a lot of
our focus through thistransition has been, we
basically go from the ranch hasbeen transferred to us and now
we are looking at building aplan for for the next generation
(18:25):
because there was a lot ofconfusion and question on the
last transition on how it wasgoing to go how we would make
this work and I recentlyattended a ranching for profit
seminar and one of the thingsthey said there that really
stuck with me is you do not oweyour children a job or an
(18:47):
inheritance you do owe themclarity that's really good and I
think That would have gone areally long ways in our case.
My husband started asking hisfamily, like when he was 16,
what's the plan for the ranch,guys?
How is this going to work?
And he was always just told,oh, we'll see, you know, for the
(19:11):
next 10, 15 years.
And so I think that reallygives your kids, you know, if
you are straightforward withthem, and telling them, you
know, this is the plan.
You know, you have theopportunity to do this.
But I think also saying, youdon't need to do this.
(19:32):
Because I think I've seen a lotof families where maybe someone
stayed out of an obligationthat they felt, not necessarily,
you know, their love ofranching or their love of the
business or whatever.
And I think I would rather mykids want to stay.
(19:56):
So that is part of it is wewant to create a business that
they are excited to be a partof.
And then we need to be clearwith them on what that looks
like going forward.
And we don't have that figuredout yet, but we just took
ownership a couple months ago.
So I feel like we do have alittle time to work that out and
(20:19):
figure it out.
But I think that's the goal isclarity with our children and
saying that we own this and thatsomeday you can, and here are
the steps that you can take toown this.
Speaker 03 (20:34):
I think it's such a huge gift to the next generation
to provide them with theclarity and that on-ramp, if
that's what they choose to do.
Yeah.
Speaker 02 (20:41):
And to not feel guilty.
I mean, equal is not alwaysfair and fair is not always
equal.
The thing is, I mean,operations used to be able to
split up and still be viable.
That's not the case for thisoperation.
It can't be split and still bea viable operation for a job
(21:05):
anymore.
So it has to go to one personand they have to figure out how
to make it work and how to moveforward with that.
So yeah, we have a lot of workcut out for us, I think.
Speaker 03 (21:20):
I really respect and appreciate you both and have
enjoyed watching you go throughthis transition and how
committed you are to seeing itthrough and taking care of your
families and just making surethings are done right.
I want to switch gears a littlebit, Kate.
You received a Western SareFarmer Rancher Grant and have
added goats to your verytraditional beef ranching
operation.
(21:40):
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Speaker 01 (21:43):
Yeah.
So, yes, that's a great way toput it.
We were a very traditionalcowboy type beef operation.
And adding goats was definitelyan interesting twist.
But we...
So, coming into it, my SAREgrant project is we're
(22:07):
studying...
goat grazing and how it affectsseeding new perennials while
also removing invasive weeds.
And what we're looking at istheir hoof traffic and seeding
sites before and after they comein and graze the area to see
how their hoof traffic affectsplanting.
(22:28):
So if we seed before, doestheir hoof impact help plant
those seeds?
Because we're just going to beair seeding.
And then also if we seed after,does that hoof traffic help
break that soil up and get itprepared for seeding better?
And then also looking atreducing and removing the
(22:51):
invasive weed species and ifgrazing them while seeding helps
that new perennial grasses toestablish better and essentially
choke out the weeds becausethey've been grazed down before
or very soon after.
seeding.
So we started with the goatsbecause it was another little
(23:14):
side income.
And I actually just startedwith feeder kids.
So we weren't even grazing themat all.
It was just some feeder kids tofeed out and resell when we got
the pounds on them to get themup to wait for butcher to become
a We quickly noticed how wellthey did around the barn and how
(23:34):
well they ate stuff down, sothen we kind of expanded from
there.
I got some red does, and itjust kind of exploded from
there.
They definitely have made ahuge impact, and so...
That is why we have grown somuch with them, because they
(23:56):
have done a fantastic job ofcleaning up the weeds.
And the results we've seen withthem have been pretty
ridiculous, actually.
It's been pretty mind-blowing.
How
Speaker 03 (24:07):
many do you have now?
Speaker 01 (24:09):
So we're running about 100 head of bread does, of
mother does a year.
Speaker 03 (24:14):
And you've been talking a little bit about
expanding to maybe send some ofthe goats out for grazing and
weed control to some of theneighbors.
Speaker 01 (24:22):
Yeah, so we've had a lot of interest in having them
come work other operations andjust clear ground or just come
up and clean river bottom,especially.
We have a lot of river bottomhere in Tensleep area.
We've got the no wood and thenover Hyattville, they've got the
paint rock.
And so there's been a lot ofinterest in it.
(24:45):
And really and truly, all I'mwaiting on is getting enough
head of does to go and gettingthe logistics of it figured out.
And we're going to be headingto some other operations to help
clean up some weeds.
Speaker 03 (25:02):
So that's really great.
I know you're also committed toa low input operation and being
very intentional around yourgenetics and making sure you're
keeping animals that thrive inyour system.
Tell us more about that.
Speaker 01 (25:13):
So we are really focusing on using our adaptive
genetics by selecting goats thatfit our standards.
We're focusing on not worming.
So we don't worm our doesunless they need it.
And if they need to get wormed,they go on our list and they go
(25:34):
to town.
We don't trim hooves.
We do not kid in a barn and wedo not jug them.
A lot of guys...
that run goats treat them likesheep and they kid them in March
and they jug them in a barn andthey rotate them into a kind of
a maternity pen.
And then they go out into thebig, the pasture, the fields,
(25:56):
whatever they're doing.
And there's nothing wrong withthat at all.
But we didn't want to take thatapproach because A, we don't
have the facilities to do that.
It would cost a lot to buildthat infrastructure.
And B, We are cattlemen, so wetreat them like cows, kind of.
And we're like, well, I don'tsee why not.
(26:17):
I don't see why you can't justkid on your own and raise a kid
and go from there.
So they kid out on pasture.
And if you don't take your kidsand get them up and going, they
go to town.
We don't rotate them for aboutthe month of kidding just
because we do realize those kidsare not quite big enough to
(26:39):
travel that far.
But we have them set up wherethey have their bed ground and
they can kid and drop their kidsthere.
We have guard dogs with them.
We run three head of guarddogs.
So they are protected and thosedoes are expected to do it on
their own and make it work.
Speaker 03 (27:00):
It's been really fun to watch that grow and get to
see the part of the operationreally add to the ranch.
Where can people find you ifthey want more information about
your goats and your ranch?
What's your website?
Speaker 01 (27:09):
So our website is Brewster, B-R-E-W-S-T-E-R,
Ranch, R-A-N-C-H, Y-O, W-Y-O,and that is .com.
But we are also on Facebook andInstagram as Brewster Ranch,
Y-O.
So you can find us there andlearn more about the goats and
(27:33):
everything we're doing withthem.
Speaker 03 (27:37):
Mary, I know you and Andrew pursued some of your own
education around grazing andranch management before you came
back to the family place.
And it's been fun to watch youover the years make some changes
on some of your grazing andcattle management, implementing
some winter grazing and a fewother things.
Will you tell us a little bitabout what you've added to your
operation and also where you'vepursued some of your education
and what's been really helpfulto you?
Speaker 02 (27:59):
Yeah, thank you.
So we were running a ranchand...
the owner wanted to do organicbeef.
He wanted to raise organicbeef.
And we came into the operationwith the goal of turning a
profit.
So we had our eye on that, andAndrew wanted to find a way to
(28:24):
create organic beef in aprofitable way.
The owner wanted to do it in avery conventional way, wanted to
raise organic hay and organicsilage and feed in a feedlot.
And we weren't super excitedabout that.
So we went and we took agrazing school from Jim Garish.
(28:50):
He does management intensivegrazing.
And honestly, I would say thatschool changed our life.
We...
had our eyes open to all thesedifferent possibilities
available through using electricfence and grazing irrigated
(29:14):
ground.
And when we came back to thefamily place, we showed up in
the winter right before calving.
And so we were, you know, wewere doing the traditional way,
feeding the cows every day.
We had a ton of hay to feed up.
Our heifers were in a feedlotat the ranch, and we were
(29:38):
feeding them every day.
And I turned to Andrew one day,and I said, we're not doing
this another year like this,because we had already tried
some things at the other ranchwe were at, and I do not enjoy
beating my head against thewall, haying all summer.
(29:58):
We have some irrigationtroubles.
The irrigation is just not verydeveloped on our place right
now, and so they would take onecutting from everywhere, and
then we wouldn't be able to getit wet again, and it would just
burn up, and there would benothing.
Also, where our cows werecalving, they were able to get
(30:21):
down on the creek, and thatfirst winter, I'm pretty sure we
lost five or six calves, andthen also their mothers left the
herd as well because theyweren't raising a calf.
So it was kind of a devastatingthing that I was a part of, and
I said, we've got to get thesecows off of here.
There's no reason to be losingthese calves in this way.
(30:45):
So we spent $7,000.
We got ourselves a fencer.
We built ourselves a skeletonof electric fence around the
ranch and paid for itselfmultiple times the very next
winter, which is just so amazingto me.
We went from haying everythingto only haying our side rolls
(31:10):
because we can actually getthose wet again.
And so we grew our hay fields,just we grew them tall and let
them be.
And we could irrigate them onceor twice.
And they were actually able tohold the water because they had
so much cover on them.
(31:30):
And so we go into the wintergrazing season with about, I
don't know, three to four feetof grass.
They have been grazing it inFebruary, March, April.
We've pushed our calving amonth this year, so we haven't
really even started with it yetthis year.
(31:53):
But we move our electric fenceevery day to a new patch of
ground.
on our irrigated ground and thecows are able to eat it.
And it's so amazing to me.
I mean, it's like, I can'tremember.
I think it was three degreesout this morning.
But you get down on the groundnext to where that grass is
(32:15):
growing near the ground and wehave green grass down there that
those cows are eating inJanuary and February, which has
just been pretty amazing to me.
I guess we like to do a lowinput system.
I don't like to feed cows.
I don't like to put up hay.
(32:35):
I guess I should say I don'tlike to feed cows with a
tractor.
Going out and moving electricfence every day is super fun for
me.
We get to see the cows, theyget excited, and they get fresh
ground every day.
And when we were calvingearlier, that really helped with
(32:56):
our the health of our calves ishaving that fresh ground every
day for them to be available.
So that was one major change wedid was simply growing our hay
fields up and then grazing themoff in the winter.
Definitely helped with waterretention.
We didn't get much water onthem, but whatever we do get on
(33:18):
is utilized and is held there inthe soil, which is pretty
amazing.
A few other things that we'vedone.
Like I said, our heifers, ourreplacement heifers used to be
in a feedlot fed for ever sincethey were weaned all the way up
through breeding, you know,their first breeding season.
(33:39):
And the first year that we didthat, that was another moment
where we went, we're not doingthis again.
Feedlots aren't for us.
I'm sure they work great forother people, but For our
low-end boat system, I wouldrather they put their manure out
on the fields themselves.
So we shortened our calvingwindow on our heifers down to 45
(34:04):
to 60 days.
That's been a real help to usas well.
We just have not a lot ofpeople helping with calving, and
so if we can tighten thosewindows up, that helps us.
with that and then also withour breed back.
For genetics, I guess somethingmy husband actually read in a
(34:27):
Chip Hines book was, if one can,they all should.
And I really like that because,I mean, I think sometimes we
get confused and think that wework for the cows.
But really, The cows are thereworking for us and they need to
work for us and they need towork for our environment and
(34:49):
they need to work for what wehave available for them.
They need to be able to providethat.
So I think that's been a lot ofour transition is the cows that
can work for us.
And there definitely had beensome fall out of the herd and
(35:10):
now our herd is coming backWe've been back for six years,
and our herd is starting to growagain.
But it's nice to have cows thatare going to do the work.
We did do some cover crops.
We don't do a lot with itbecause, like I said, our
(35:31):
irrigation leaves some things tobe desired.
But we do mess around with someno-till drilling, and we do
that honestly just in case.
fields that we want to helpalong.
And it's had some mixedresults.
I do enjoy experimenting withit though, especially when you,
(35:53):
I don't know, when you use ano-till drill, it's like you're
saving all those farming steps.
And so why not throw some seedsin the ground and see what
happens?
But yeah, I feel like I rambledon there and I'm not sure if I
hit what I was supposed to, but
Speaker 01 (36:10):
No, I love that, Mary.
Just to make a comment here.
I think that is so, that's sucha great quote that if one can,
they all should, because wetotally approach it the same way
of they work for us, we don'twork for them.
So that if one can, they allshould is like, well, she did
(36:30):
it.
So what are the rest of youdoing?
I love it.
Speaker 03 (36:35):
As we all know, change is hard, and change is
hard for everybody, and it'sespecially hard in an industry
that values tradition and haslongevity in many of these
family operations.
So as we're wrapping up, justthinking about that and
listening to both of you talkand thinking about how you've
worked with your spouses and thefamilies to make incremental
changes and positive changes,what would you say to somebody
(36:56):
else who is looking to make someof these changes towards more
sustainable, low-inputoperations and more profitable
operations?
And what would you share withthem as they were wanting to
figure out how to make some ofthese changes and maybe
communicate with others abouthow to make these changes?
Speaker 01 (37:11):
I'll let you go first, Mary.
Unless you want me to, but Ithink you've got really good
insight on this.
All right.
I guess
Speaker 02 (37:20):
for us, it was figure out, for one, what makes
money and what doesn't.
And Don't lie to yourselfsaying that because you made
that hay that that hay was free,because it wasn't.
And also, as far as we go, wearen't making the best hay.
(37:45):
I know that somebody that's outthere that they make hay for a
living, that's going to be thebest hay that I could feed my
cows, not the hay that I'm, youknow, putting up.
But I think just looking at theinputs and saying, you know, we
don't need to do that, it'skind of hard to say because you
just start making changes.
(38:07):
And we kind of live out wherenobody really drives by, so it's
easier.
There aren't a lot of peoplethat ask questions and say, what
are you doing all that weirdstuff?
I guess just don't be afraid totry stuff because that's how we
learn.
And I would say...
The game has changed from yearsago and you can't keep doing it
(38:34):
the way it's always been donebecause that doesn't pay
anymore.
So you got to be honest withyour numbers and honest with
what you can do.
Like I said, I don't likehaying and I don't like feeding
hay.
So that was a real good placefor us to start and figure out
(38:54):
how we could do thatdifferently.
Speaker 01 (38:57):
I would say I completely agree with Mary in
terms of like, I think the thingthat helps the most is run the
numbers.
Run the numbers.
Because if you get thosenumbers out, the numbers don't
lie.
There's no emotion behind thenumbers.
There's no feelings.
There's no this or that.
run the numbers and see whatworks for your operation.
(39:21):
And I also think for us, atleast, a big thing is being
honest about what kind ofoperation you have and what do
you have available to you.
Our river bottom, we have about120, 140 acres of irrigated
ground to our pivots.
(39:42):
And The one pivot is achallenge because the ground is
a challenge.
It's very alkali.
It gets washed out.
It gets washed out by theriver.
All these things.
I could go into so much detailon it.
But at the end of the day, wehad to be honest with ourselves
and look at our operation forwhat it is and what challenges
(40:05):
we have with Mother Nature andwhat are our honest limitations.
Because if you have this greatfarm in Iowa...
where you have a thousand acresof farm ground, you have a
totally different game than Ihave out here in rural, dry, bad
lands of Wyoming.
(40:25):
So looking at your operationfor what it is, being honest
about it, being honest with it,and using what you've got to the
best of your ability andrunning the numbers to go with
that.
Because there's guys that cando So many cool, crazy things in
(40:46):
different parts of the worldthat I can't even grow what
they're growing.
So I think that's huge to me islooking at that.
And then, like I said, run thenumbers.
The numbers don't lie.
If it's going to pencil,consider it.
Because right now in this worldand in agriculture that we're
(41:07):
in, it's so hard to make itpencil.
I mean, our cattle market thisyear is amazing, so that's
great.
But every other year, youreally got to look at your
numbers.
So I think that's really big.
And that's a way, I think, withthe family operations where
(41:28):
you're dealing withmulti-generations, it's, hey,
okay, let's count how manygallons of fuel we're using to
plow this field and to till thesoil and to do all these things.
Let's figure it out.
Let's get the numbers and let'ssee what the numbers say
because they can't lie.
Speaker 03 (41:49):
Well, thank you both.
I really enjoyed thisconversation and you both bring
a lot of creativity and clarityto the family operations there.
I look forward to watching howthat evolves in coming years as
you continue to develop thebusiness and continue to take
care of the land and work withthe family and lead in your
community.
So thank you for joining metoday and keep up the good work.
Speaker 02 (42:08):
Thanks, Caitlin.
Okay,
Speaker 00 (42:11):
thank you.
Thank you for listening toFresh Growth.
We hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
For more information on WesternSARE grants and our learning
resources, visitwesternsare.org.
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