February 1, 2022 • 31 mins
Austin Allred, talking about his family's Royal Dairy in Washington, proudly states that rather than contributing to climate change, Royal Dairy shows that farms like his can be an impactful part of the solution — in part by preventing the formation of greenhouse gases and boosting the capacity of his soil to draw down and sequester atmospheric carbon.
In this episode, Austin shares his passion and knowledge about the relationship ruminants have with the soil, which effortlessly leads to regenerative and sustainable farming.
You'll hear about the importance of ruminants converting rotational crops to proteins valuable for human consumption. Austin also discusses carbon sequestration and how regenerative farming is the process that brings carbon into the soils. We need to bank carbon in our soils, and the role ruminants have in this process is significant.
And you'll hear how Royal Dairy captures 70% of their animals' urine and manure and runs the liquid manure through 8 acres of worms combined with rock and wood chips to capture usable water and high value worm castings.
The family's long term approach has led to fewer inputs and more outputs with the worm and compost farm.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to season three of fresh growth, a podcast
by the westerner program thatsustainable agriculture research
and education.
I'm your host, Steve Elliot,alongside co-host Stacy Clary,
just for background westernerpromotes sustain farming and
ranching across the Americanwest through research education
and communication efforts.
Like this podcast, it is fundedby the us department of
(00:28):
agriculture's national Instituteof food and agriculture, fresh
growth introduces producers andag professionals from around the
west who are embracing new waysof farming and ranching.
They'll tell us about theirexperiences adopting more
sustainable agriculturalpractices and the challenges and
benefits they've seen.
Today's guest is Austin Allred,owner of Royal dairy in Royal
(00:49):
city, Washington.
He lives on the third generationfarm with his wife, Camille and
their three kids, their website,proudly states rather than
contributing to climate change.
Royal dairy shows that farms canbe an important part of the
solar ocean in part bypreventing the formation of
certain greenhouse gases andboosting the capacity of soil to
draw down in sequesteratmosphere at carbon Austin.
(01:10):
Welcome, and thanks for sittingdown with us.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Welcome Austin.
As a start, it'd be helpful tohear a description of your area
in Washington.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So we are in the middle of Washington state.
If you know, Spokane, you know,Seattle go right in between them
.
You'll find Royal city, it'scalled the Columbia base and I
am biased, but arguably we'resitting in one of the greatest
irrigation projects in historycalled the Columbia base
irrigation project over 200,000acres here through a series of
(01:44):
hydro electric dams, which allowus to utilize the water through
a series of canals through thewhole basin and, uh, make for
some of some really, really,really good farming farm ground,
and a great farming area.
Our dairy sits in the middle ofthat.
We, uh, we milk on this sideabout 6,500 towels, and then we
(02:07):
have a beef ranch that, uh, weteam up with that, that we own
also that does, uh, another5,000 beef animals.
My father is a potato farmer.
Um, so we certainly worktogether.
The relationship with the soilsand the ruminants is something
that we very much value andbelieve leave helps our soils a
(02:28):
lot.
So, and then there's also anorchard to my father.
Does my brothers do apples andcherries.
And that farm also is a sistercompany to the dairy and the
ranch that it's all a, asymbiotic relationship to where
the soils and the ruminants andthe byproducts and the cover
crops are all working togetherto create a very system
Speaker 1 (02:53):
About how, how all that works in more specifics.
I mean, walk us
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Okay.
How much time do we got Iget going?
I can get going, Steve.
So, okay.
So the cycle, uh, Steve, I couldgo all day every day on this.
This is kind of what I really ampassionate about.
It's the relationship thatruminants have with our soils.
(03:20):
And, and really with thatrelationship, we start talking
about regenerative farming andsustainable farming.
I'll start, I'll start by just,and Steve, please kind of shut
me down or, or chase me hot,chase me in the certain
directions that you'd like,don't let me, don't let me steal
the, the
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Direction, if it's going way, way, way sideways.
We'll we'll bring you, butotherwise listen to you talk
about, this is what we're doinghere.
I mean, that's, that's why wewanna be here.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay.
So there's really, when you,when you start talking about
soils and ruminants and therelationship that they have
together, that effortlesseffortlessly takes you to
regenerative farming andregenerative farming has a few
different pillars that make upregenerative farming.
And I like regenerative farming,cuz those pillars are different
(04:09):
in different regions.
And that's why it's really, uh,important that regenerative
farming is a focus of ours inthe future.
The adaptive nature ofregenerative farming allows us
to be sustainable in our, in ourcertain ecosystems.
Um, here cover crops, veryimportant that that goes in with
, uh, rotation crops.
(04:30):
It's very important to be addingdifferent biodiversity to your
soils year, to year, to year, toyear, uh, introducing the
ruminants, the, the, the manuresinto your system into your soils
is very important toregenerative farming.
Those all kind of tie together,cover crops, rotation crops, and
the manures is all just thebiodiversity of your soils.
(04:52):
The cover crops is in partkeeping your soils from blowing
away also, but, uh, those areworking together to give you
diverse soils that are healthyfor the long term.
And then, uh, the other thingthat you gotta consider is
tillage and then just waterusage.
Um, but if you can, if you canwork those together and figure
(05:15):
out your systems within those,um, you're getting more and more
regenerative.
So specifically what we've donehere on Royal family farming, uh
, with our ruminants and withthe potato farm and with the
orchards is you take therotation crops, which by, by
(05:36):
default, you think about, youthink about what humans eat
versus what ruminants or towelseat.
And it's different things.
The ruminant is able to convertgrasses, even corn, which a
human which our digester systemcan't utilize very well.
The grasses in the corn, theruminant is able to convert that
to proteins, which are veryvaluable to us.
(06:00):
Along with this conversation,you need to consider that the,
the crops that are produced forhumans are generally the crops
that are going to deplete yoursoils a little bit more because
your soils and your plant haveto work a little bit harder to
get that food to a state that wecan digest it.
(06:21):
So if you back that down, youneed the ruminant crops.
You need these cover crops to bepart of that rotation.
The alfalfas, the grasses, um,even the corn, those crops are
really critical to healthy soilsand that rotation.
Um, so Steve kinda talk methrough that.
(06:43):
I mean, I know that's a lot andI just kind of bombarded that.
So anyway, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Let
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Let's talk.
Let's talk about it in, inpractice with the three
different aspects of the farm.
I mean, if, if you've got the Ruinside on the dairy, what's
coming in, what's going out andhow is that all helping the
whole system?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yes.
Um, I have a whole bunch of, uh,I have a whole ecosystem on
paper that shows all of theinputs and all the outputs.
So when you say going out, mostof the time what's going out in
our farm is crops for humanconsumption.
So for us that's potatoes,apples, cherries for us, we do
(07:29):
some sweet corn and we do somelike snap peas or green peas.
And on occasion we'll do somewheat.
So that's the outputs, if youwill, in this conversation,
those that's what our farm andgoes to Walmart or somewhere
else.
But we also are pulling a lot ofthat back.
Anything, any of those crops, wehave relationships with those
(07:52):
processors.
Some of them, we own thoseprocessing, any of the
byproducts that don't quite makegrade or get run over in the
process or potato skins, Frenchfries that don't make the right
cut apples that are the wrongsize peas carrots.
We're feeding tons of thesebyproducts.
We're bringing those back to theruminants to convert'em to
(08:14):
proteins.
So then, um, those are theoutputs that's, what's going
out.
Some of those byproducts arecoming back and then the
ruminant is then, and utilizingthose crops, the crops that are
staying here, all those covercrops, it's all those grasses.
It's all those, I'll say'em soilbenefiting crops.
I mean, not that not thatpotatoes are bad for the soil,
(08:36):
but potatoes back to back toback to back are certainly bad
for the soil.
So the crops like the grasses,um, that really are good for
soil.
Those are coming to theruminants, whether we do it
through the pasture program orwhether we harvest them silage
and feed.
Um, and then the ruminants areutilizing those crops to make
(08:57):
milk and meat, the best proteinsin the world.
I'm biased, but the bestproteins in the world.
Um, furthermore, the ruminantsare filling the rest of that
plant, that it just consumedwith microbials, putting it out
the back end, and we're thenimportant part of the formula
(09:20):
utilizing it correctly with bestpractices, utilizing that
manure, right?
So that we can then withoutreleasing all that carbon at
that plant and that room, and ithave utilized up to this point
and, and sequestered, if youwill, we're taking that manure,
getting it to a point where wecan then put it back on the
ground in a, in a healthy way.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And talk about more about the se sequestration and
your, um, your comment about howyou are, um, actually a solution
to climate change.
How does that all tie in?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So, um, soil carbon sequestration is one of the
major answers to taking carbonout of the air where there's an
excess, we have too much carbonin our air and putting it into
the soils where we have a need.
We need more carbon in oursoils.
(10:16):
Regenerative farming is theprocess that does that.
It is the process that, thatmakes that inverse happen, takes
it outta the air where there'stoo much and puts it in the soil
where there's not enough.
Um, carbon in the soils is good,like period, right?
I mean, there, there's not, I'msure there's a balance, but we
(10:37):
wouldn't even know it causewe're so far away from it.
I'm sure you can get too muchcarbon, but we don't even know
what that looks like.
It's not even on our radarbecause there's just frankly,
not enough.
So, so at the end of the day, weneed to bank this carbon in our
soils and, and the role that theruminant has on that is
significant.
As I've mentioned, those cropsthat we're growing are the crops
(11:01):
that are most beneficial to soil, carbon sequestration.
Um, furthermore adding the, the,if you think of the carbon
chain, you pull it outta the airthat plant utilizes
photosynthesis and, and trapsthat carbon, it sequesters that
(11:23):
carbon.
But then if you go out and you aput it through a cow, lose a
bunch empirically, which thereis some of that, that's a, cow's
gonna burb.
But then if you allow thatcarbon to be all dismissed back
into the year through poormanure management practices,
then a really you are goingbackwards.
(11:45):
Furthermore, if you, you takethe carbon that your plant has
with correct practices, yourplant has sequestered and even
banks in the soil.
And then you go and till yourground a whole bunch and plow it
and open up that ground the sameyou're, you're gonna lose a lot
of that carbon, which a lot ofeffort has gone into to keeping
it there.
So keeping that carbon withinthat chain, through the
(12:07):
ruminant, and then back to thesoils is really the trick to
sequestering carbon instead ofjust utilizing photosynthesis
and releasing it all and pullingit.
You, you see what I mean?
I mean, at some point you put itin soils and you, you trap it
there, you bank it.
And over time you are gettingmore and more carbon in your
soil to where you're not justsequestering your banking and
(12:31):
that's what we are tracking.
And that's what we're doing onour, um, on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And you you've mentioned, uh, best practices
and you mentioned not using poormanure practices.
What are some of the practices,the best practices you are
incorporating as far as, uh,manure management?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, we use a lot of practices.
So to preface this there's threemain areas where an, uh, animal
a, a CAO, if you will, a, ananimal operation is gonna, is
gonna have a footprint.
You're gonna have a footprint,empirically cows, all mammals,
we're going to burp.
We're going to release gas cows,don't fart.
(13:11):
Their stomach is way tooadvanced for them to be farting.
Um, there is an entirecommission that comes with those
animals.
Two just overall management,when you're your practices of
harvesting and of getting thefeed to the animals, there is a
footprint there.
Um, but, but there's a, there'sa manure management footprint
(13:32):
that actually takes up probablythe biggest, um, of that
footprint.
Am I making sense?
Stacy am, I guess, okay.
Saw me if I'm scrambling.
But the biggest part of thatfootprint is, is probably tied
up and most operations is tiedup in that manure management
side.
So here we've employed a fewdifferent practices to try to
(13:56):
make sure that we don't allowthat carbon, whether it's in
methane or ammonia, be releaseduntil we want it to be released
into our soils.
So I'll just explain briefly, wecollect as much manure from our
animals as possible, and that'sthat the vast majority of it,
(14:17):
um, 70% of all the, or a urinethat our animals give we
capture, we then take that to acentral location where we
immediately use slope screens topull out the so manure and leave
us with a liquid manure.
And we have a couple differentphases, a couple different slope
(14:38):
screen sizes, a primary slopescreen, then that then that
liquid manure will go through a,a sand lane into a secondary
slope screen.
So at the end of the slopescreen, sand lane slope screen
process, we're left with quite afew solids, which immediately go
to compost and we're left with adirty, we call it green water at
(15:00):
that point.
Now that green water isgenerally where the biggest, the
biggest portion of your manuremanagement footprint is going to
come from is from that greenwater.
It's from those lagoons that aregoing to be bubbling and
releasing methane.
As they're sitting theredigesting, we take that green
water within a couple of days offormation and we put it, we give
(15:24):
it, we feed it to our worms.
We have eight acres of wormbeds.
It's the biggest bio filter inthe United States that we
sprinkle out that green water ontop of, and those worm beds are
layered with warm castings, woodchips, and rock.
(15:44):
The green water comes out.
Those sprinklers settles throughthe worm castings, wood chips,
and rocks, which sidebar isreally a copy of God's creation.
Um, if you think about rain orwater, it's contaminated, it's
contaminated as it rains, it'scontaminated the, as it touches
(16:04):
our earth, whether it falls onmanure or not, it's
contaminated.
And then it settles through thelayers of rock and earth.
And then we pump it out of thebottom and we drink it.
We've condensed that into a fivefoot version.
We're not necessarily going forpotable.
We don't get potable out of thebottom of that, but we certainly
get irrigation type water.
(16:25):
So as that dirty green watersettles through, it's gonna pull
out the vast majority of thenitrogen, the phosphorus and the
potassium about 85% of NP and Kis gonna come out of that water.
And it's captured in those wormcastings in the, in the, the
media there we're then going toutilize that the clean water
that comes out the bottom 75% ofthat is gonna go back into our
(16:48):
system.
And we're gonna use that toflush our barns and to clean, to
clean our animals, not, not toclean our animals, to clean the
barns and the homes of ouranimals.
Um, the other 25% will go to ourlagoon, which is now an
irrigation pond.
And it's gonna go through the,the irrigation system when we
need that water to water oursprinklers.
So the only potable water we useon all of our farm is the water
(17:10):
that our animals need to drink.
And the water that the FDArequires us to use in our parlor
and in our cleaning systems thatcomes in contact with milk or,
or meat, um, everything else isirrigation water, or this, this,
uh, we call, we call it teawater at this point, which is an
(17:31):
irrigation water.
So that's the water that's,that's how we utilize the water.
And it's, it's a really goodsystem, but then potentially
even more exciting is what thoseworms do with the N P N K, that
they pulled outta that water.
They're going to crawl aroundthat biofilter all day every day
and be digesting that NP and K,along with the wood chips that
(17:53):
we are already cap, we'rekeeping the carbon in those wood
chips, putting that in themedia, and they're gonna be
digesting all that carbon andall that NP and K, and you'll
hear me say a lot.
Uh, a cows digestive system isoff the charts.
It's the coolest thing in theworld.
Second place very closely is aworm digestive system.
(18:16):
When worms digest something forwhatever reason, I'm not a, I'm
not a good biologist, or I don'teven know if that's a biologist
quite, but anyway, when it goesthrough a worm digestive system,
it poops plant ready gold.
It really does.
They're called worm castings.
So those worms are crawlingthrough, they're taking the NP
and K taking the carbon that'sin the wood chips that we've,
(18:38):
that we've captured in, in manycases, we're taking that off of
our orchards, which are notgetting burned, cuz that's the
common practice right now.
You get, you get burning allover the place to try to control
that we're taking those woodchips and building value in them
, putting'em in this media to bea water filter.
The worms are gonna digest that,upcycle that with the NP and K
and turn into worm castings,we're gonna harvest those worm
(18:59):
castings on a, on an annualbasis and we're gonna sell those
for or use'em on our farm for asoil amendment, long answer.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was good answer.
I'm very passionate and a lot ofknowledge.
And I guess I could guessthere's a lot that you're, uh,
really passionate about and whatyou and your family are doing.
How did this start?
How did you begin looking atsoil health, regenerative
agriculture, the whole cycle,how long that's been going on
and are you taking it step bystep or did a lot of stuff
(19:31):
change very quickly?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And yes,, uh,
10 years ago, a little more,
about 10 years ago, my dad beinga potato farmer and an, and an
apple farmer, um, the, theneighboring dairy farm came up
for operation.
And, and at that point I hadjust graduated from school and
(19:55):
it was our ambition to get intothe dairy, into the ruminants,
if you will, to support theirfarm, I'll be honest.
I didn't want a potato farm orapple farm.
So I was doing it.
My motives weren't maybe as pure, but I wanted it.
I, I loved the cows and I lovedworking with the cows.
(20:16):
And so, but my dad willingnessto support me in that venture
was based on the idea that wecould utilize those ruminants to
support our current farmingoperations.
So that really you frame that upa decade ago like that.
And it's, it's been my goal thatwhole time to work everything
(20:39):
off each other and to keep thisregenerative agriculture system
going to keep it long term, youknow, that's really what it
comes down to.
It's a long term versus a shortterm approach and, uh, and
regenerative agriculture.
And what we have going on hereis a long term approach.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
What have you seen change in the potato farm in the
past 10 years,
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Less inputs?
So our potato farm is notorganic.
Um, it it's close to, but we, wedon't, we're our processors,
French fries and stuff, butanyway, it's not an organic
farm, but it doesn't matterbecause we are buying less
inputs.
We're, we're spending less moneyon bringing outside sources in
(21:25):
to support our soils for a shortterm window, right.
Cuz N P and K is a very checkyour soil sample, put some, put
some process NP and K and solvethe problem for that season.
Right?
Whereas we are in a long termapproach where we're adding all
these inputs in a RO in arotation form and a, and, uh,
(21:46):
and it's, it's progressivelygetting better and better as far
as a inputs, um, coming fromelsewhere for our soils and
Steve to continue on that.
I know I always continue on yourquestions that you probably want
a two minute answer and I giveyou 15, but, uh, to continue on
(22:06):
that, we have more outputs.
If you will, we have more, morevalue coming out the others
side, not just are we a potatofarm now or, or an apple or a
cherry farm?
Um, we're not just a, we're notjust a milk or meat farm, but we
(22:26):
are a worm castings farm.
We're a worm farm.
We're a compost farm, we're amanure farm.
And all those pieces are workingto together to create more value
, uh, in general, because youhave more valuable.
I don't even wanna saycommodities because I don't like
commodities per se, cuz I feellike farmers are just getting
(22:49):
rigged over the coals via thecommodity game.
Um, we sell wholesale and buy.
Um, but we have all theseproducts, these commodities
that support us andsupport each other.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So the changes have benefited the land and, and your
operations, but your bottom lineas well.
That sounds like,
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah.
I mean short answer is yes, lawlong answer is all these
changes, cost money.
We have more revenue long answeris we've we've, we've spent a
lot of money in the last decadeto be constantly tweaking and
improving our practices.
Mm-hmm but we'regetting there and we feel very
comfortable with the directionwe're going from a very business
(23:37):
standpoint.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You guys, your Emily has had the advantage of, you
know, the three differentoperations and being able to
work, you know, together andsupport.
Can you see this kind ofapproach working for another,
with another potato farmer whodoesn't have, you know, the
(24:01):
dairy, but can link up withsomeone else's dairy.
I mean, can you see farmersmoving this way, even if they're
not related to each other, Iguess is the, is the, the short
version of that question?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah.
In the short version answer ismost certainly there obviously
has to be a certain geographbalance, um, for, for it to work
really sustainably.
Um, the ruminants need to beclose to the farm, close to the
processing even for thebyproducts.
But short answer is yes, it, itis a very symbiotic relationship
(24:39):
and Steve we're doing it.
I mean, I, obviously the focusis our family, but I sell a lot
of manure and I, I take a lot ofbyproduct from outside sources
and, and so we're, we really aredoing it.
It's it's about the balance ofruminants to soil, um, to crops.
I mean, it really is about thatbalance.
(24:59):
You don't have to be related.
We just fortunately are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And you have a lot of family members together that
worked for really well.
How do you, how do you come todecisions together and stay on
the same path and work thingsout?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Uh, we just fight a lot.
We just wrestle.
I'm just kidding.
No, we are fortunate becausethere is these different
branches, apples, potatoes,ruminants, we all have our own
roles.
Um, which is very fortunate.
I think that keeps us fromstepping on each other's toes
too much.
Um, but then we most certainlycome together and, and try to
(25:38):
improve the systems.
I mean, I'll just say for themost part, usually the answer is
pretty symbiotic.
You know, it's not, Hey, I needthis for my cows, but usually
that's supporting the soils andusually that's supporting
another crop or, or something.
So it works pretty good to dateStacy, but I am the strongest.
(25:59):
So usually I just win.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
got it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Stay it on the, on the family theme.
You've you've got kids.
Would you like to see them gointo farming or what's, what's
your vision knowing that kids doever, they want to do
eventually.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it is interesting,Steve, cuz really what I've,
what I've learned is I've goneout in the world and they come
back is farming is unique.
Agriculture is unique that we'relong term.
I mean it is very generationaland it's one of the few, uh,
histor that is like that, youknow, the whole EBITDA and
(26:39):
valuation and sale for 10 X.
We don't even know what thoseterms mean or are, and they
don't even cross our board boardmeetings.
Like we have board meetings, ourfamily center discussion.
And so with that, it reallyplays into regenerative
agriculture and the processesthat we're working towards to
(27:00):
make these operationssustainable.
Not just five years, not just 10years, not just 20 years, but
literally lifetimes and nextlifetimes.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but yeah, I would
love, I would love to have avery awesome operation,
sustainable regenerativeoperation that the kids can jump
(27:21):
onto if they so desire.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Not a bad goal.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And it's, as you, uh, been working with the family,
have you made some changes thatJess did not work out
Speaker 3 (27:38):
oh yeah, I'm
sure I have to think about em,
might try to erase those onesfrom memory, but, if I
need examples, you might need togimme a few minutes to, to come
up with them.
But always change is hard.
There's no way around it, butprogress, change improvements.
It just flat takes work,learning the right way to
(28:00):
progress.
Most of the time flat takesscrewing up a lot.
So I can't sit here and pretendlike we've, uh, we've cheated
that system in any way, shape orform.
So lots of mistakes, lots ofwork, but we're focused on the
right goals.
I think keeping our, our earthin check, I I've feel strongly
(28:25):
that ruminants have a great rolein balancing out that system,
um, to keep our are, to keep abalanced diet in our, to keep a,
a balanced diet, a but abalanced environment too.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So I'll, I'll ask you the last question and, and you
sort of touched on it a littlebit already, but so what advice
would you give, you know, ayoung farmer or rancher, um, who
wanted to farm better, moresustainably or even not a young
one, an old one.
Um, but wanted to rethink theway they farm for the long term
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Buy a cow.
I will.
I mean, as I, as I mentionedwith my family, I'm, I'm the,
I'm the cow guy, I'm theruminant guy.
So, um, I'm biased.
But I do think that when you addthe ruminant to the system, not
only do you get the incredibleproteins that that ruminant is
(29:32):
producing for us, but you gettheir byproducts and you get to
grow crops that are good foryour soils for those cows.
Um, so you get that ruminantsitting right there in the
middle of your system and itjust, it opens up so many doors
for really all of it.
(29:53):
And then you start throwing inworms and you throw in, uh,
different some of thesedifferent, you know, winter crop
that are so fun and you you'reon your way to a really awesome
regenerative system that improve, you know, improves your
revenue, increases revenue withdifferent outputs.
(30:14):
Um, but then also decreases theneed for external resources to
keep things going
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Well, you shared a lot.
It was a really funconversation.
Um, I definitely heard thepassion and I learned a lot.
So, uh, thanks a lot for sittingdown and talking with us.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Feel free to reach out.
I'm happy to continue theconversation.
Add more.
I'll speak last.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
We wanted you to speak it worked great.
Yes.
Thanks Austin.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Really appreciate it.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Sounds good.
Thanks.
We'll talk soon.
All right.
Take care.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Thank you for listening to fresh growth.
We hope you enjoyed this episodefor more information on westerns
rounds and our learningresources visit Western
sarah.org.
Welcome to season three of fresh growth, a podcast
by the westerner program thatsustainable agriculture research
and education.
I'm your host, Steve Elliot,alongside co-host Stacy Clary,
just for background westernerpromotes sustain farming and
ranching across the Americanwest through research education
and communication efforts.
Like this podcast, it is fundedby the us department of
(00:28):
agriculture's national Instituteof food and agriculture, fresh
growth introduces producers andag professionals from around the
west who are embracing new waysof farming and ranching.
They'll tell us about theirexperiences adopting more
sustainable agriculturalpractices and the challenges and
benefits they've seen.
Today's guest is Austin Allred,owner of Royal dairy in Royal
(00:49):
city, Washington.
He lives on the third generationfarm with his wife, Camille and
their three kids, their website,proudly states rather than
contributing to climate change.
Royal dairy shows that farms canbe an important part of the
solar ocean in part bypreventing the formation of
certain greenhouse gases andboosting the capacity of soil to
draw down in sequesteratmosphere at carbon Austin.
(01:10):
Welcome, and thanks for sittingdown with us.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Welcome Austin.
As a start, it'd be helpful tohear a description of your area
in Washington.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
So we are in the middle of Washington state.
If you know, Spokane, you know,Seattle go right in between them
.
You'll find Royal city, it'scalled the Columbia base and I
am biased, but arguably we'resitting in one of the greatest
irrigation projects in historycalled the Columbia base
irrigation project over 200,000acres here through a series of
(01:44):
hydro electric dams, which allowus to utilize the water through
a series of canals through thewhole basin and, uh, make for
some of some really, really,really good farming farm ground,
and a great farming area.
Our dairy sits in the middle ofthat.
We, uh, we milk on this sideabout 6,500 towels, and then we
(02:07):
have a beef ranch that, uh, weteam up with that, that we own
also that does, uh, another5,000 beef animals.
My father is a potato farmer.
Um, so we certainly worktogether.
The relationship with the soilsand the ruminants is something
that we very much value andbelieve leave helps our soils a
(02:28):
lot.
So, and then there's also anorchard to my father.
Does my brothers do apples andcherries.
And that farm also is a sistercompany to the dairy and the
ranch that it's all a, asymbiotic relationship to where
the soils and the ruminants andthe byproducts and the cover
crops are all working togetherto create a very system
Speaker 1 (02:53):
About how, how all that works in more specifics.
I mean, walk us
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Okay.
How much time do we got
I can get going, Steve.
So, okay.
So the cycle, uh, Steve, I couldgo all day every day on this.
This is kind of what I really ampassionate about.
It's the relationship thatruminants have with our soils.
(03:20):
And, and really with thatrelationship, we start talking
about regenerative farming andsustainable farming.
I'll start, I'll start by just,and Steve, please kind of shut
me down or, or chase me hot,chase me in the certain
directions that you'd like,don't let me, don't let me steal
the, the
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Direction, if it's going way, way, way sideways.
We'll we'll bring you, butotherwise listen to you talk
about, this is what we're doinghere.
I mean, that's, that's why wewanna be here.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Okay.
So there's really, when you,when you start talking about
soils and ruminants and therelationship that they have
together, that effortlesseffortlessly takes you to
regenerative farming andregenerative farming has a few
different pillars that make upregenerative farming.
And I like regenerative farming,cuz those pillars are different
(04:09):
in different regions.
And that's why it's really, uh,important that regenerative
farming is a focus of ours inthe future.
The adaptive nature ofregenerative farming allows us
to be sustainable in our, in ourcertain ecosystems.
Um, here cover crops, veryimportant that that goes in with
, uh, rotation crops.
(04:30):
It's very important to be addingdifferent biodiversity to your
soils year, to year, to year, toyear, uh, introducing the
ruminants, the, the, the manuresinto your system into your soils
is very important toregenerative farming.
Those all kind of tie together,cover crops, rotation crops, and
the manures is all just thebiodiversity of your soils.
(04:52):
The cover crops is in partkeeping your soils from blowing
away also, but, uh, those areworking together to give you
diverse soils that are healthyfor the long term.
And then, uh, the other thingthat you gotta consider is
tillage and then just waterusage.
Um, but if you can, if you canwork those together and figure
(05:15):
out your systems within those,um, you're getting more and more
regenerative.
So specifically what we've donehere on Royal family farming, uh
, with our ruminants and withthe potato farm and with the
orchards is you take therotation crops, which by, by
(05:36):
default, you think about, youthink about what humans eat
versus what ruminants or towelseat.
And it's different things.
The ruminant is able to convertgrasses, even corn, which a
human which our digester systemcan't utilize very well.
The grasses in the corn, theruminant is able to convert that
to proteins, which are veryvaluable to us.
(06:00):
Along with this conversation,you need to consider that the,
the crops that are produced forhumans are generally the crops
that are going to deplete yoursoils a little bit more because
your soils and your plant haveto work a little bit harder to
get that food to a state that wecan digest it.
(06:21):
So if you back that down, youneed the ruminant crops.
You need these cover crops to bepart of that rotation.
The alfalfas, the grasses, um,even the corn, those crops are
really critical to healthy soilsand that rotation.
Um, so Steve kinda talk methrough that.
(06:43):
I mean, I know that's a lot andI just kind of bombarded that.
So anyway, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Let
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Let's talk.
Let's talk about it in, inpractice with the three
different aspects of the farm.
I mean, if, if you've got the Ruinside on the dairy, what's
coming in, what's going out andhow is that all helping the
whole system?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yes.
Um, I have a whole bunch of, uh,I have a whole ecosystem on
paper that shows all of theinputs and all the outputs.
So when you say going out, mostof the time what's going out in
our farm is crops for humanconsumption.
So for us that's potatoes,apples, cherries for us, we do
(07:29):
some sweet corn and we do somelike snap peas or green peas.
And on occasion we'll do somewheat.
So that's the outputs, if youwill, in this conversation,
those that's what our farm andgoes to Walmart or somewhere
else.
But we also are pulling a lot ofthat back.
Anything, any of those crops, wehave relationships with those
(07:52):
processors.
Some of them, we own thoseprocessing, any of the
byproducts that don't quite makegrade or get run over in the
process or potato skins, Frenchfries that don't make the right
cut apples that are the wrongsize peas carrots.
We're feeding tons of thesebyproducts.
We're bringing those back to theruminants to convert'em to
(08:14):
proteins.
So then, um, those are theoutputs that's, what's going
out.
Some of those byproducts arecoming back and then the
ruminant is then, and utilizingthose crops, the crops that are
staying here, all those covercrops, it's all those grasses.
It's all those, I'll say'em soilbenefiting crops.
I mean, not that not thatpotatoes are bad for the soil,
(08:36):
but potatoes back to back toback to back are certainly bad
for the soil.
So the crops like the grasses,um, that really are good for
soil.
Those are coming to theruminants, whether we do it
through the pasture program orwhether we harvest them silage
and feed.
Um, and then the ruminants areutilizing those crops to make
(08:57):
milk and meat, the best proteinsin the world.
I'm biased, but the bestproteins in the world.
Um, furthermore, the ruminantsare filling the rest of that
plant, that it just consumedwith microbials, putting it out
the back end, and we're thenimportant part of the formula
(09:20):
utilizing it correctly with bestpractices, utilizing that
manure, right?
So that we can then withoutreleasing all that carbon at
that plant and that room, and ithave utilized up to this point
and, and sequestered, if youwill, we're taking that manure,
getting it to a point where wecan then put it back on the
ground in a, in a healthy way.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And talk about more about the se sequestration and
your, um, your comment about howyou are, um, actually a solution
to climate change.
How does that all tie in?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
So, um, soil carbon sequestration is one of the
major answers to taking carbonout of the air where there's an
excess, we have too much carbonin our air and putting it into
the soils where we have a need.
We need more carbon in oursoils.
(10:16):
Regenerative farming is theprocess that does that.
It is the process that, thatmakes that inverse happen, takes
it outta the air where there'stoo much and puts it in the soil
where there's not enough.
Um, carbon in the soils is good,like period, right?
I mean, there, there's not, I'msure there's a balance, but we
(10:37):
wouldn't even know it causewe're so far away from it.
I'm sure you can get too muchcarbon, but we don't even know
what that looks like.
It's not even on our radarbecause there's just frankly,
not enough.
So, so at the end of the day, weneed to bank this carbon in our
soils and, and the role that theruminant has on that is
significant.
As I've mentioned, those cropsthat we're growing are the crops
(11:01):
that are most beneficial to soil, carbon sequestration.
Um, furthermore adding the, the,if you think of the carbon
chain, you pull it outta the airthat plant utilizes
photosynthesis and, and trapsthat carbon, it sequesters that
(11:23):
carbon.
But then if you go out and you aput it through a cow, lose a
bunch empirically, which thereis some of that, that's a, cow's
gonna burb.
But then if you allow thatcarbon to be all dismissed back
into the year through poormanure management practices,
then a really you are goingbackwards.
(11:45):
Furthermore, if you, you takethe carbon that your plant has
with correct practices, yourplant has sequestered and even
banks in the soil.
And then you go and till yourground a whole bunch and plow it
and open up that ground the sameyou're, you're gonna lose a lot
of that carbon, which a lot ofeffort has gone into to keeping
it there.
So keeping that carbon withinthat chain, through the
(12:07):
ruminant, and then back to thesoils is really the trick to
sequestering carbon instead ofjust utilizing photosynthesis
and releasing it all and pullingit.
You, you see what I mean?
I mean, at some point you put itin soils and you, you trap it
there, you bank it.
And over time you are gettingmore and more carbon in your
soil to where you're not justsequestering your banking and
(12:31):
that's what we are tracking.
And that's what we're doing onour, um, on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And you you've mentioned, uh, best practices
and you mentioned not using poormanure practices.
What are some of the practices,the best practices you are
incorporating as far as, uh,manure management?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, we use a lot of practices.
So to preface this there's threemain areas where an, uh, animal
a, a CAO, if you will, a, ananimal operation is gonna, is
gonna have a footprint.
You're gonna have a footprint,empirically cows, all mammals,
we're going to burp.
We're going to release gas cows,don't fart.
(13:11):
Their stomach is way tooadvanced for them to be farting.
Um, there is an entirecommission that comes with those
animals.
Two just overall management,when you're your practices of
harvesting and of getting thefeed to the animals, there is a
footprint there.
Um, but, but there's a, there'sa manure management footprint
(13:32):
that actually takes up probablythe biggest, um, of that
footprint.
Am I making sense?
Stacy am, I guess, okay.
Saw me if I'm scrambling.
But the biggest part of thatfootprint is, is probably tied
up and most operations is tiedup in that manure management
side.
So here we've employed a fewdifferent practices to try to
(13:56):
make sure that we don't allowthat carbon, whether it's in
methane or ammonia, be releaseduntil we want it to be released
into our soils.
So I'll just explain briefly, wecollect as much manure from our
animals as possible, and that'sthat the vast majority of it,
(14:17):
um, 70% of all the, or a urinethat our animals give we
capture, we then take that to acentral location where we
immediately use slope screens topull out the so manure and leave
us with a liquid manure.
And we have a couple differentphases, a couple different slope
(14:38):
screen sizes, a primary slopescreen, then that then that
liquid manure will go through a,a sand lane into a secondary
slope screen.
So at the end of the slopescreen, sand lane slope screen
process, we're left with quite afew solids, which immediately go
to compost and we're left with adirty, we call it green water at
(15:00):
that point.
Now that green water isgenerally where the biggest, the
biggest portion of your manuremanagement footprint is going to
come from is from that greenwater.
It's from those lagoons that aregoing to be bubbling and
releasing methane.
As they're sitting theredigesting, we take that green
water within a couple of days offormation and we put it, we give
(15:24):
it, we feed it to our worms.
We have eight acres of wormbeds.
It's the biggest bio filter inthe United States that we
sprinkle out that green water ontop of, and those worm beds are
layered with warm castings, woodchips, and rock.
(15:44):
The green water comes out.
Those sprinklers settles throughthe worm castings, wood chips,
and rocks, which sidebar isreally a copy of God's creation.
Um, if you think about rain orwater, it's contaminated, it's
contaminated as it rains, it'scontaminated the, as it touches
(16:04):
our earth, whether it falls onmanure or not, it's
contaminated.
And then it settles through thelayers of rock and earth.
And then we pump it out of thebottom and we drink it.
We've condensed that into a fivefoot version.
We're not necessarily going forpotable.
We don't get potable out of thebottom of that, but we certainly
get irrigation type water.
(16:25):
So as that dirty green watersettles through, it's gonna pull
out the vast majority of thenitrogen, the phosphorus and the
potassium about 85% of NP and Kis gonna come out of that water.
And it's captured in those wormcastings in the, in the, the
media there we're then going toutilize that the clean water
that comes out the bottom 75% ofthat is gonna go back into our
(16:48):
system.
And we're gonna use that toflush our barns and to clean, to
clean our animals, not, not toclean our animals, to clean the
barns and the homes of ouranimals.
Um, the other 25% will go to ourlagoon, which is now an
irrigation pond.
And it's gonna go through the,the irrigation system when we
need that water to water oursprinklers.
So the only potable water we useon all of our farm is the water
(17:10):
that our animals need to drink.
And the water that the FDArequires us to use in our parlor
and in our cleaning systems thatcomes in contact with milk or,
or meat, um, everything else isirrigation water, or this, this,
uh, we call, we call it teawater at this point, which is an
(17:31):
irrigation water.
So that's the water that's,that's how we utilize the water.
And it's, it's a really goodsystem, but then potentially
even more exciting is what thoseworms do with the N P N K, that
they pulled outta that water.
They're going to crawl aroundthat biofilter all day every day
and be digesting that NP and K,along with the wood chips that
(17:53):
we are already cap, we'rekeeping the carbon in those wood
chips, putting that in themedia, and they're gonna be
digesting all that carbon andall that NP and K, and you'll
hear me say a lot.
Uh, a cows digestive system isoff the charts.
It's the coolest thing in theworld.
Second place very closely is aworm digestive system.
(18:16):
When worms digest something forwhatever reason, I'm not a, I'm
not a good biologist, or I don'teven know if that's a biologist
quite, but anyway, when it goesthrough a worm digestive system,
it poops plant ready gold.
It really does.
They're called worm castings.
So those worms are crawlingthrough, they're taking the NP
and K taking the carbon that'sin the wood chips that we've,
(18:38):
that we've captured in, in manycases, we're taking that off of
our orchards, which are notgetting burned, cuz that's the
common practice right now.
You get, you get burning allover the place to try to control
that we're taking those woodchips and building value in them
, putting'em in this media to bea water filter.
The worms are gonna digest that,upcycle that with the NP and K
and turn into worm castings,we're gonna harvest those worm
(18:59):
castings on a, on an annualbasis and we're gonna sell those
for or use'em on our farm for asoil amendment, long answer.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was good answer.
I'm very passionate and a lot ofknowledge.
And I guess I could guessthere's a lot that you're, uh,
really passionate about and whatyou and your family are doing.
How did this start?
How did you begin looking atsoil health, regenerative
agriculture, the whole cycle,how long that's been going on
and are you taking it step bystep or did a lot of stuff
(19:31):
change very quickly?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
And yes,
about 10 years ago, my dad beinga potato farmer and an, and an
apple farmer, um, the, theneighboring dairy farm came up
for operation.
And, and at that point I hadjust graduated from school and
(19:55):
it was our ambition to get intothe dairy, into the ruminants,
if you will, to support theirfarm, I'll be honest.
I didn't want a potato farm orapple farm.
So I was doing it.
My motives weren't maybe as pure, but I wanted it.
I, I loved the cows and I lovedworking with the cows.
(20:16):
And so, but my dad willingnessto support me in that venture
was based on the idea that wecould utilize those ruminants to
support our current farmingoperations.
So that really you frame that upa decade ago like that.
And it's, it's been my goal thatwhole time to work everything
(20:39):
off each other and to keep thisregenerative agriculture system
going to keep it long term, youknow, that's really what it
comes down to.
It's a long term versus a shortterm approach and, uh, and
regenerative agriculture.
And what we have going on hereis a long term approach.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
What have you seen change in the potato farm in the
past 10 years,
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Less inputs?
So our potato farm is notorganic.
Um, it it's close to, but we, wedon't, we're our processors,
French fries and stuff, butanyway, it's not an organic
farm, but it doesn't matterbecause we are buying less
inputs.
We're, we're spending less moneyon bringing outside sources in
(21:25):
to support our soils for a shortterm window, right.
Cuz N P and K is a very checkyour soil sample, put some, put
some process NP and K and solvethe problem for that season.
Right?
Whereas we are in a long termapproach where we're adding all
these inputs in a RO in arotation form and a, and, uh,
(21:46):
and it's, it's progressivelygetting better and better as far
as a inputs, um, coming fromelsewhere for our soils and
Steve to continue on that.
I know I always continue on yourquestions that you probably want
a two minute answer and I giveyou 15, but, uh, to continue on
(22:06):
that, we have more outputs.
If you will, we have more, morevalue coming out the others
side, not just are we a potatofarm now or, or an apple or a
cherry farm?
Um, we're not just a, we're notjust a milk or meat farm, but we
(22:26):
are a worm castings farm.
We're a worm farm.
We're a compost farm, we're amanure farm.
And all those pieces are workingto together to create more value
, uh, in general, because youhave more valuable.
I don't even wanna saycommodities because I don't like
commodities per se, cuz I feellike farmers are just getting
(22:49):
rigged over the coals via thecommodity game.
Um, we sell wholesale and buy.
Um, but we have all theseproducts, these commodities
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So the changes have benefited the land and, and your
operations, but your bottom lineas well.
That sounds like,
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah.
I mean short answer is yes, lawlong answer is all these
changes, cost money.
We have more revenue long answeris we've we've, we've spent a
lot of money in the last decadeto be constantly tweaking and
improving our practices.
Mm-hmm
comfortable with the directionwe're going from a very business
(23:37):
standpoint.
Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You guys, your Emily has had the advantage of, you
know, the three differentoperations and being able to
work, you know, together andsupport.
Can you see this kind ofapproach working for another,
with another potato farmer whodoesn't have, you know, the
(24:01):
dairy, but can link up withsomeone else's dairy.
I mean, can you see farmersmoving this way, even if they're
not related to each other, Iguess is the, is the, the short
version of that question?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah.
In the short version answer ismost certainly there obviously
has to be a certain geographbalance, um, for, for it to work
really sustainably.
Um, the ruminants need to beclose to the farm, close to the
processing even for thebyproducts.
But short answer is yes, it, itis a very symbiotic relationship
(24:39):
and Steve we're doing it.
I mean, I, obviously the focusis our family, but I sell a lot
of manure and I, I take a lot ofbyproduct from outside sources
and, and so we're, we really aredoing it.
It's it's about the balance ofruminants to soil, um, to crops.
I mean, it really is about thatbalance.
(24:59):
You don't have to be related.
We just fortunately are.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And you have a lot of family members together that
worked for really well.
How do you, how do you come todecisions together and stay on
the same path and work thingsout?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Uh, we just fight a lot.
We just wrestle.
I'm just kidding.
No, we are fortunate becausethere is these different
branches, apples, potatoes,ruminants, we all have our own
roles.
Um, which is very fortunate.
I think that keeps us fromstepping on each other's toes
too much.
Um, but then we most certainlycome together and, and try to
(25:38):
improve the systems.
I mean, I'll just say for themost part, usually the answer is
pretty symbiotic.
You know, it's not, Hey, I needthis for my cows, but usually
that's supporting the soils andusually that's supporting
another crop or, or something.
So it works pretty good to dateStacy, but I am the strongest.
(25:59):
So usually I just win.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Stay it on the, on the family theme.
You've you've got kids.
Would you like to see them gointo farming or what's, what's
your vision knowing that kids doever, they want to do
eventually.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it is interesting,Steve, cuz really what I've,
what I've learned is I've goneout in the world and they come
back is farming is unique.
Agriculture is unique that we'relong term.
I mean it is very generationaland it's one of the few, uh,
histor that is like that, youknow, the whole EBITDA and
(26:39):
valuation and sale for 10 X.
We don't even know what thoseterms mean or are, and they
don't even cross our board boardmeetings.
Like we have board meetings, ourfamily center discussion.
And so with that, it reallyplays into regenerative
agriculture and the processesthat we're working towards to
(27:00):
make these operationssustainable.
Not just five years, not just 10years, not just 20 years, but
literally lifetimes and nextlifetimes.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but yeah, I would
love, I would love to have avery awesome operation,
sustainable regenerativeoperation that the kids can jump
(27:21):
onto if they so desire.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Not a bad goal.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And it's, as you, uh, been working with the family,
have you made some changes thatJess did not work out
Speaker 3 (27:38):
might try to erase those onesfrom memory, but
need examples, you might need togimme a few minutes to, to come
up with them.
But always change is hard.
There's no way around it, butprogress, change improvements.
It just flat takes work,learning the right way to
(28:00):
progress.
Most of the time flat takesscrewing up a lot.
So I can't sit here and pretendlike we've, uh, we've cheated
that system in any way, shape orform.
So lots of mistakes, lots ofwork, but we're focused on the
right goals.
I think keeping our, our earthin check, I I've feel strongly
(28:25):
that ruminants have a great rolein balancing out that system,
um, to keep our are, to keep abalanced diet in our, to keep a,
a balanced diet, a but abalanced environment too.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So I'll, I'll ask you the last question and, and you
sort of touched on it a littlebit already, but so what advice
would you give, you know, ayoung farmer or rancher, um, who
wanted to farm better, moresustainably or even not a young
one, an old one.
Um, but wanted to rethink theway they farm for the long term
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Buy a cow.
I will.
I mean, as I, as I mentionedwith my family, I'm, I'm the,
I'm the cow guy, I'm theruminant guy.
So, um, I'm biased.
But I do think that when you addthe ruminant to the system, not
only do you get the incredibleproteins that that ruminant is
(29:32):
producing for us, but you gettheir byproducts and you get to
grow crops that are good foryour soils for those cows.
Um, so you get that ruminantsitting right there in the
middle of your system and itjust, it opens up so many doors
for really all of it.
(29:53):
And then you start throwing inworms and you throw in, uh,
different some of thesedifferent, you know, winter crop
that are so fun and you you'reon your way to a really awesome
regenerative system that improve, you know, improves your
revenue, increases revenue withdifferent outputs.
(30:14):
Um, but then also decreases theneed for external resources to
keep things going
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Well, you shared a lot.
It was a really funconversation.
Um, I definitely heard thepassion and I learned a lot.
So, uh, thanks a lot for sittingdown and talking with us.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Feel free to reach out.
I'm happy to continue theconversation.
Add more.
I'll speak last.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
We wanted you to speak it worked great.
Yes.
Thanks Austin.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Really appreciate it.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Sounds good.
Thanks.
We'll talk soon.
All right.
Take care.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Thank you for listening to fresh growth.
We hope you enjoyed this episodefor more information on westerns
rounds and our learningresources visit Western
sarah.org.
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