June 7, 2025 • 36 mins
Former Chicago science teacher, Rick Bieterman now farms in the Colorado High Desert, growing hay. Watershed Ranch has an annual precipitation of 11 inches and sits at 8,000 feet in elevation – providing about 90-100 frost free days per season. Add in poor soil quality, and farming becomes a challenge.
Rick got involved in Colorado’s STAR program which focuses on soil health practices. When prices of synthetic fertilizers soared during the COVID pandemic, his goal was to figure out how to move away from their use and improve soil quality. He found compost to purchase and later received a Western SARE grant to learn how to make his own.
Listen in to this conversation as Rick discusses the unique challenges of farming in a high alpine desert, the importance of community connections, and innovative practices he’s trialing. He also reflects on the learning process, embracing failures, and the continuous quest for improvement in farming.
Also watch Rick's YouTube videos on fungal compost
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Thanks for listening to Fresh Growth! To learn more about Western SARE and sustainable agriculture, visit our website or find us:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 01 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to season five of Fresh Growth, a
podcast by the Western SAREprogram at Sustainable
Agriculture Research andEducation.
I'm your host, Steve Elliott,alongside co-host Stacey Clary.
Thanks for listening for thepast four seasons, and we're
excited to sit down with moreinnovative producers this year.
Just for background, WesternSARE is funded by the U.S.
(00:29):
Department of Agriculture'sNational Institute of Food and
Agriculture.
We promote sustainable farmingand ranching across the American
West through research,education, and communication
efforts like this podcast.
Fresh Growth highlightsproducers and agricultural
professionals from around theWest who are embracing new ways
of farming and ranching.
They'll tell us about theirexperiences adopting more
(00:52):
sustainable practices and thechallenges and benefits they've
seen.
Today's guest is Rick Bietermanof Watershed Ranch in
Colorado's Upper Arkansas RiverValley.
Watershed Ranch is a 168-acreagricultural property comprising
60 acres of irrigated haypastures, 70 acres of forest,
(01:13):
and two homesteads dating backto 1886.
Rick, welcome and thanks forsitting down with us today.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 00 (01:22):
To start us off, please tell us a little bit more
about Watershed Ranch so we canlearn about the location, the
climate.
And when did you get started?
Speaker 03 (01:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So the Arkansas Valley,Arkansas River Valley is
centrally located in Colorado,deep in the mountains.
We are at the headwaters of theArkansas River, just below
Leadville.
And our farm watershed ranchsits at just over 9,000 feet
(01:52):
elevation.
Right behind us, we've got thethird tallest mountain in in the
States, in Mount Harvard.
And our water just comesrip-roaring down those creeks
right to the farm.
It is a high alpine desert,which is kind of interesting and
unique.
I'm not totally sure why peopledecided to farm there.
(02:15):
Our climate is, you know,pretty darn cold and dry.
Here we are on June 2nd, and...
Our water coming off the creekis still mid 40 degrees.
So farming in our neighborhoodis a treat.
(02:36):
I'm right there along withcacti.
So yeah, not only is it cold,but being a desert, we've got
some interesting conditions togrow and farm.
But that's what I do.
And I feel like I do it fairlywell.
Speaker 00 (02:56):
With all those challenges, climate and all
that, how did you come to farmin that location?
Speaker 03 (03:05):
You know, I would say farming was almost an
afterthought.
I hate to say that on a farmingpodcast, but the beauty, the
nature that I grew up loving wasmountains.
Every chance I could go find amountain, I wanted to find it.
(03:26):
And so the Arkansas Valley ischock full of mountains.
My wife grew up in Indiana andis generational farming.
So I would say the farmingpiece is more on her end, but
over the last nine years offarming...
(03:46):
I've learned a lot and kind offigured out how to do it and how
to meet the smart people thatknow how to do it better so that
what we call a 50-year projectturns into a good one.
Speaker 01 (04:05):
So tell us a little about what you grow.
And I like the...
finding the smart people whoknow how to do it better.
I mean, and how you'veincorporated that into making
that challenging location work.
Speaker 03 (04:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think first andforemost, most farmers would
say you start learning by doingand you start learning by
talking to your neighbors who,who love to talk.
And I've got farming neighborswho have been here for five
generations who know the land sowell.
And, um, you know, just over acup of coffee or a weekly
(04:42):
morning breakfast.
You get to learn from them.
Being about two hours away fromany bigger city and having, I
grew up in Chicago, and I feltlike one thing that was missing
from rural Colorado here was aconnection to academia, right?
(05:05):
And so that was a connectionthat I'd been searching for,
especially over the last fiveyears, six years.
How could I make thoseconnections with the scientists?
My background prior to this wasteaching.
So I was a high school physicsteacher, environmental science
(05:25):
teacher, and I'm always tryingto get that sort of competitive
advantage from tapping intothose super smart science
people.
That's kind of what I've doneover the last five years via
NRCS grants, via National ForestFoundation grants, obviously
(05:48):
the SARE grant here, and thenthe STAR soil program as well
that's put on through ourconservancy.
That's all led to thesewonderful connections with
scientists.
And currently right now, Icould send out an email and
within 10 minutes be connectedwith an agronomist out of CSU,
(06:09):
Colorado State University, who'sbeen out to the farm and
understands the operation.
So, yeah, I feel like it'staken almost a decade, but I
have the local connections andnow I have these awesome
scientists that are willing tohelp for virtually nothing.
Just the whole idea of Let'ssave the planet.
Speaker 01 (06:34):
Yeah, well, it's their job.
Has the local connection gonethe other way as well now that
you've made the connections withCSU and some of the other
academic kind of programs?
Are you able to share some ofwhat they teach you to your
neighbors?
Oh, 100%.
I
Speaker 03 (06:53):
have a wonderful cohort now that we've formed
over the last four years throughour Star Soil program.
One of them is the local fruitsand veggies farmer who runs the
CSA.
Another one is thesuperintendent of the golf
course.
And another one operates a duderanch.
And we meet monthly, both inand out of season.
(07:16):
And we are always bouncingideas off of each other.
The CSU...
grant that I just became a partof this last year was actually
handing out these really niftyhandheld probes that allow you
to probe the soil for moisture,humidity, temperature.
And so we have eight of themnow in the valley that the four
(07:38):
of us are shuffling back andforth to each other.
Currently, I teach at theelementary school, so I've got
400 little kids that have theirhands on these CSU probes that
are they're just doing it intheir little Dixie cups of beans
and peas that we grow in class.
But I'm showing them that I'mdoing it on a grander scale on
(08:00):
the agricultural acreage.
And then my cohort here isdoing the same.
So yeah, it's been verytransferable.
And it happens to work out realwell that I do most of mine
during the teaching.
And then I hand off thesedevices to The farmers who are
growing as well in thesummertime and the dude ranch
(08:22):
who has thousands of kids in andout of their 400 acre facility.
So I feel like the power ofSARE, the power of these bigger
picture supports and grants hasdefinitely trickled down to our
little valley.
And what I've realized is I amnot just surrounded by 80 year
(08:45):
old fifth-generation farmers whoare, you know, they can put
their finger in the soil andknow what the temperature and
humidity is.
I'm surrounded by a lot ofpeople who are intrigued and
inspired to learn more and morewhat's out there.
Speaker 01 (09:03):
So the part that we've sort of skipped over is
what do you grow?
What's your farm like?
Oh, yeah.
Well,
Speaker 03 (09:10):
we've got about 90 frost-free days where I'm at.
So...
We're keeping it kind of simpleup here, at least on our farm
anyway.
We've got hay, we've gotalfalfa, we've got clover.
I do a three-acre pollinatorhabitat that was an NRCS
(09:31):
project, and I'm still pickingweeds like crazy two years into
it.
But it's turning into a prettymagical space that ultimately
the grant was given to.
cut down on on usage of waterin certain areas that weren't
thriving and so I'm sort ofseeing that scientific piece of
(09:53):
okay conservation how do youcreate a beautiful space and use
less water doing it and I feellike that's what a lot of
Colorado farmers are trying tofigure out I don't know if
you're aware of sort of Coloradowater law but it is it is a
wild beast I mean We get anemail every day, and there's a
(10:16):
born-on date to it, and thatdate tells you whether or not
you can use your water.
And so we are at the mercy ofthe state and how a lot of
reservoirs further south of usare in terms of storage and
fill, and also Kansas as wellbecause water flows downstream,
and when Kansas demands it, theyget it in priority.
(10:38):
So being at the headwaters, wecan see all of this beautiful
runoff But some days we areforced to run it off.
Just watch it go.
Just watch, say goodbye.
Yep.
So yeah, we do hay.
The other thing that we do onthis farm is hydroelectricity.
We've got two hydro powerplants that we have what's
(11:00):
called a non-consumptive righton.
So we can run our creek waterthrough those power plants and
then it can go into the riverand on down to, you know,
wherever it needs to go.
So that's kind of a piece tothe property too you know I
think all farmers are trying tofigure out how to diversify
their income and we produce theequivalent of about 30 average
(11:26):
homes in terms of energy use andwe don't obviously use that
much energy but we sell it backto the grid and you know we've
had some kind of ideas here andthere about what else to do with
it maybe we channel it into abigger greenhouse operation.
When we bought the propertynine years ago, we were getting
(11:50):
good money for it, about sevencents on the kilowatt.
And it amounted to about$20,000 a year.
So it was quite a, I would say,mildly passive income.
I mean, the thing breaks allthe time.
But now, because, and this is agood thing, because renewable
(12:12):
energy is easier to get.
That $0.07 dropped to about$0.01.
And so we lost that nest egg offunding.
We still produce the exact sameamount of energy.
Our local co-op charges us$0.15 a kilowatt for it.
They give us one.
So projects like this, we'retrying to figure out Is there a
(12:36):
win-win in something
Speaker 01 (12:37):
like
Speaker 03 (12:38):
that?
Is there a
Speaker 01 (12:38):
way to use it on your farm?
Speaker 03 (12:41):
Yes.
So partnering with otherfarmers, you know, the fruit and
veggie guy that I was talkingabout that runs the CSA, he
would love to have morehothouses to be able to do his
thing and expand and develop.
Because as I said, the growingseason is just terrible out
here.
And the soils are terrible too.
Speaker 00 (13:05):
You also mentioned watching water, and I know
you're doing a lot of differentprojects on your site.
What are some of the thingsyou're working on that helps you
be more efficient with wateruse?
Speaker 03 (13:17):
Yeah, well, I can tell you the guy we bought from,
his name was Franklin, andFranklin had been here for 50
years.
He bought the place at 450acres and slowly subdivided.
He was a builder.
and an engineer.
His dad had invented all kindsof farming implements when he
was a kid back in Texas.
So, I mean, this guy could dojust about anything, probably at
(13:41):
about 10 years old.
So one of the amazing thingsthat he did was he put all of
our water in pipe all the way tothe head gates.
Now, what that means is that wehave seven miles of underground
pipe that run five feet deepunderground.
all the way through theforests.
We butt up to the nationalforest.
(14:01):
And then they meet the creeksthat we have our water rights
on.
And so I think Franklin is theguy to thank for water
efficiency.
I mean, there is zeroinfiltration into the soil.
It's virtually, well, fairly afriction-free system.
It's just running down throughPVC pipe.
(14:23):
And there's no evaporation.
And so...
You know, if we have four cubicfeet per second of water
starting at the head gate fivemiles away, we're one of the few
farms in the valley that'sactually getting all of that
water once it hits the farm.
Everybody else is in an openditch and they're less than 50%
(14:44):
of their take.
So I guess from an efficiencysystem, what that means is we
have the ability to take morewater I think the criticism
comes into play with Franklinbecause in doing that, sure, his
farm got more water, but allthe creeks that ran through the
forest are now underground.
(15:05):
So, yeah, I always talk aboutefficiencies, conservation, and
preservation, too, but I feellike...
The efficiencies began withFranklin putting seven miles of
underground pipe, and nobodywould do that today.
It would cost millions andmillions of dollars.
(15:26):
But it was an NRCS program thathe somehow finagled his way
into also being the generalcontractor on it.
I don't think it works that wayanymore.
Paperwork in the 70s was, youknow.
You added proposition, youknow.
(15:47):
But it all comes down to ourfarm.
And from there, we've got about50 acres that are pivot
irrigated.
We recently upgraded thosepivots.
They were over 70 years old.
This is another testament toFranklin for being able to keep
everything alive forever.
But in upgrading with that NRCSgrant, we're using far less
(16:12):
water than what those70-year-old pivots were doing.
Everything's metered, and gosh,it works so much better.
I mean, we do have about 20acres of gated pipe, but I can
tell you just from working thefields, I mean, I can irrigate
50 acres of land specificallymore efficiently than I can two
(16:37):
acres of gated pipe.
And I think anybody who knowsfarming knows that those
inventions have beenlife-changing.
Except for when the filtersbreak seven miles up and you've
got fish shooting out of yoursprinklers.
Speaker 02 (16:52):
Ouch.
Speaker 03 (16:56):
You've got to deal with these things.
It's fun.
It's fun.
I fail every day, but I'll tellyou what, it builds character.
And I have a seven-year-old anda four-year-old, and they're
out there with me going, Dad,isn't this dangerous?
I usually say, no, it happensabout a dozen times a year.
(17:18):
It's okay.
We're going to figure it out.
Speaker 00 (17:21):
Nice.
Well, you mentionedspecifically a Western Sare
grant.
And it is related to whatyou're trying to do as far as
building soils.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat work and how is that
turning out for you?
Speaker 03 (17:37):
Yeah, this has been a grant that began from the STAR
program.
And then our conservancy said,hey, I know a lady who got a
SARE grant and she's loving it.
You want to give it a go?
And I said, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Tell me what to do.
And together we wrote thegrants and we are in year three
(18:01):
now of SARE grants.
And what it amounts to isbuilding large, no churn compost
piles, everything on site.
So we're not talking aboutfancy fertilizers.
We're talking about just kindof going back to your old roots
of wood chips, you know, layersof wood chips.
We use Aspen up here orCottonwood up here.
(18:23):
Followed by manure.
We've got plenty of it.
And then followed by hay.
And I've got two piles going.
Both of them are about 20 yardslong and about 10 feet wide and
about 8 to 10 feet tall.
One of them is that layeredsystem that I was talking about.
A soil scientist out of NewZealand, she does a lot of
(18:47):
consulting up in Montana.
Nicole Masters is her
Speaker 02 (18:50):
name.
Speaker 03 (18:51):
And I met Nicole at a conservancy event and just
kind of picked her brain on howdo they do it in Montana?
God, that seems like a terribleplace to farm.
And she just said, I'll tellyou what, they all make about
$20,000 to $30,000 just turningout compost.
(19:12):
And I just said, well, tell mehow it's done.
And she just said, well, here'sthe easiest one.
You don't even have to turnthis thing.
And what it is is a high fungalcompost that you really just
let sit every day.
And you keep it at a certainmoisture, about 70% moisture.
And that's basically grabbing ahandful and squeezing it.
(19:36):
Maybe a little bit drops out, alittle liquid drops out.
So you're watering it daily.
But then in Montana and inColorado, there comes a time
where everything freezes overfor five months.
And you just bundle it up undera whole bunch of hay.
You introduce worms after thatthermophilic phase, which is
(19:59):
about two weeks into it.
And surprisingly, the last twoyears when I've uncovered my
piles, man, these worms are justthriving.
And the black...
compost that you produce fromthis.
Oh my gosh, it's amazingcompared to what goes in, which
is usually dry as a bone and I'mwatering it for weeks and weeks
(20:22):
and weeks just to get it tothat 70% moisture.
But it has been a game changerand it's actually, for me,
replaced all syntheticfertilizer on my farm.
Typically what I do is I turnthis compost into a liquid and
just by placing it in a giantvat with a bubbler, and I bubble
(20:43):
it for about four hours.
And after I bubble it, I feedit into a sprayer, filter and
feed it into a sprayer, kind oflike making a tea.
And I'm either spraying off mytruck and tractor, or I'm
injecting into the pivots.
And year one, I think Imentioned this to you, Steve,
(21:04):
terrible, terrible yields.
I mean...
I was doing synthetic side byside with the organic compost
and synthetic was grown fivetimes the rate of what the
organic was.
But I've kept at it.
Now I'm in year three and justapplying onto the fields now
(21:25):
because, of course, temperaturesof the soil are just hitting 55
degrees here in June.
Yeah.
But I am extremely hopefulbased on last year's results of
yields.
Last year was one of my bestyields yet.
So what I've learned is, and Iknow other people that are doing
this in the San Luis Valley, isthere is a bit of a lag time.
(21:47):
That first year, they didn'tsee any results either.
But year two, three, and four,they're starting to see their
fields catch up to what washappening synthetically.
So yeah, my quest to get offsynthetic fertilizers, It began
the year COVID hit whenfertilizer prices went through
the roof.
(22:07):
And that's when I started mySTAR soil program.
And so I am in year four now ofthe STAR program, and this will
be year three of the SARE.
And yeah, I know the grant sortof expires at the end of this
year, but I plan on continuingthese practices as long as I
(22:29):
can.
I mean, it's virtually freewhere I was having fertilizer
bills of, you know, $7,000 ayear.
Speaker 01 (22:38):
How did your piles over winter this year?
Did they get through withoutfreezing over?
Yeah.
So
Speaker 03 (22:46):
year one, I had some freeze in that pile that wasn't
southern facing as much.
Year two, they did not freeze.
And one of the things I did wasI...
Right.
Right.
Right.
(23:11):
Which is pretty amazing.
And that is another side hustlethere, too, figuring out how to
(23:34):
sell the worms and the
Speaker 01 (23:35):
vermicompost.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Are you seeing a market forthat yet, other than what you're
using on your own farm?
Are your neighbors interested?
Are you finding some way tomonetize it?
Speaker 03 (23:49):
Absolutely.
The worms, I'm selling them.
I'm an elementary schoolteacher.
Kids love nothing more thanworms, right?
Right.
So I do all these activities inclass that are tied to farming
and soil and plants.
And, you know, the kids go homeand they tell their parents,
oh, I got to play with theseworms.
And so that component ofeducation that is, you know,
(24:15):
paramount in the SARE grantstoo, has also led to this, I
wouldn't call it an industryyet, But I would say a little
bit of a side income on sellingthe worms.
Now, as far as selling thecompost, most of what I've done
so far is just give it away totest.
I feel like two years in,though I'm getting some good
(24:39):
soil samples and compostreadings and fungal growth looks
great and ratios look great.
I want to continue to trial iton my farm.
I don't want to sell somebody aphony product.
So that cohort of four that Imentioned to you, I'll bring it
over to them in my trailer anddump them off a big old pile so
(25:03):
they can do their own tests withtheir fruit and veggies and in
certain areas to check outgrowth.
And once I can see that, yeah,I do have a good product, then
yes, the hope is that I amselling these piles because I'm
making a lot more than I need onmy farm.
When you do the liquifying, alittle goes a long way.
(25:25):
So that's been my mainapplication.
I've also applied just the rawcompost in little 20 foot by 20
foot squares that I'm monitoringtoo.
So far, I haven't seen anysuper significant differences in
those spaces.
But again, maybe there's a lagyear.
I just started doing it lastyear, so maybe this year I'll
(25:48):
see something dramatic.
Time will tell.
Like I said, it's a 50-yearproject.
Speaker 01 (25:53):
It's a
Speaker 03 (25:53):
long
Speaker 01 (25:53):
game.
Are your neighbors liquefyingit when they apply, or are they
spreading it?
It's up to
Speaker 03 (26:00):
them.
I
Speaker 01 (26:01):
sell it to
Speaker 03 (26:01):
them in little five-gallon buckets that they
come and pick up.
A five-gallon bucket, that'sabout 30 pounds worth.
That can produce you about 100gallons.
if you're doing it on a scale,grand scale.
So they just keep a bucket intheir garage and they put it on
(26:22):
their smaller fields.
Now with the bigger farmfields, I'll bring my dump
trailer over and dump them moremasses.
And they're liquefying.
Okay.
Yeah, and that's what mostpeople in the San Luis Valley
are doing, too.
Most of them all have theinjectors right into their
pivots.
Into the pivots, yeah.
It's just pretty slick as longas you are able to filter out
(26:44):
the gunk.
Speaker 00 (26:48):
Well, and you love education.
I know you've got a videoseries.
I did.
How did you choose to do thevideo series, and how's that
going?
Speaker 03 (26:56):
Yeah, so I've got a couple of friends who are
YouTube sensations, and...
I'm still not set on theYouTube world, but I'll tell you
what, it has been an educationfor me being two hours away from
any kind of big city.
So I am definitely somebodywho's learned how to farm and
(27:16):
fix tractors from the 40s and60s that I'm still using by
getting on YouTube and findingthe right guy.
And so I thought I would piecetogether these little YouTube
video clips and I did that onyear one, did a couple edits on
year two.
And then here over the nextfour months, my plan is to take
(27:36):
those little clips.
Some of them are one to threeminutes long, which I actually
prefer watching the quick video,but I'm going to blend them all
together to kind of tell thestory of the two and a half year
Sarah project and what I'velearned.
And then I'll also embeddiagrams and visuals.
And I hope that, you know,people like me are getting on
(27:59):
and finding them.
Because like I said, it is ahuge help.
You know, before I started theSarah Grant, I was all over
YouTube watching people compostand, you know, making compost in
North Carolina where it's 90%humidity is a little different
than making compost here whereit's 10% humidity.
(28:19):
And so, you know, understandingthat and taking those videos
with a grain of salt or beingable to be flexible with your
recipe is really important toyour success.
Speaker 00 (28:34):
I did have one question.
You've mentioned the STARproject quite a few times, and I
am familiar with it, but couldyou briefly describe what the
STAR program or project is inColorado?
Yeah, so STAR...
Speaker 03 (28:51):
I got connected through STAR through our Central
Colorado Conservancy.
And they were picking aboutseven farmers to join in the
program.
It is tied to, I believe, NRCSgrant funding.
And basically, you form anexperiment and you trial that
(29:11):
experiment on your field and youmake a three-year commitment to
it.
You have a cohort.
That cohort meets virtuallyevery Or they meet together,
depending on how far away y'alllive.
And you're just consistentlybouncing ideas off of each
other.
And so my cohort of seven, Istill stay really close to three
(29:31):
of those.
They live within a 15-miledistance of our farm.
And, you know, I'm tryingthings that they tried out.
You know, whether that'splanting radishes to help
impacted soil.
It's just one of these things.
I'm lugging my compost up to afriend's farm there in Leadville
to try it out too.
(29:52):
So I feel like what it has doneis just connected me with a
whole other world of people whoare willing to try new things.
That's what I was going for.
And yeah, I'm just looking forthat next thread to pull.
But that's where I started, andit was very low stakes.
(30:13):
Your project was yours to pick,and my project had to do with
also the fertilizers, trying toget off those synthetics.
And so that kick-started thisSARE idea of growing my own.
I was going down to a guy'sfarm in the San Luis Valley and
(30:34):
buying compost, and it was aneight-hour round trip, and
lugging it out.
And I wasn't sure if this stuffwas just dirt from the ground
or if it was legit and doing itmyself has empowered me to DIY,
do it myself, but also saved me$5,000.
And so that self-sufficiencyis, well, it's at a whole new
(31:02):
level once I started beingconnected with these formalized
programs.
Great, thank you.
Again, not to say that myneighbors don't know what
they're doing, because I dothink they do, but it's also
been fun to watch them ask memore questions and come over to
my farm and take a look too,because my first five years of
(31:23):
farming, I was living over attheir farms going, wait, what
does this thing do?
Speaker 01 (31:31):
You mentioned at the beginning, and I'm going to
circle back, to something youjust said.
You mentioned at the beginningthat like you fail every day,
but then you're just talkingabout learning to be
self-sufficient, which is goingto require failure.
I mean, that's sort of the, ifyou're going to try something
new, you're going to learnthings and you're going to learn
what doesn't work more than,you know, what does.
(31:52):
For somebody else who's justgetting into farming, how do you
let them know that this is theprocess?
This is how it's going to be,you know, and staying afloat
while you do it.
Speaker 03 (32:03):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think it was ablessing that we bought a farm
from a guy who lived here for 50years who tried not to replace
a thing.
He tried to fix it all.
And I shadowed him for abouttwo months prior to buying the
place.
And I just said, you got toshow me how to do everything.
(32:24):
I am going to break my phoneout and videotape you every
minute.
And, you know, this is how I'mgoing to learn.
I'm going to go back and I'mgoing to watch the videos.
And in doing that, you know,that was a head start.
But still, every day I lose.
Every day I fail.
But, you know, I've beentelling my students that for 20
(32:46):
years.
It's all a process.
And the stakes may be higher onyour farm when you're working
with heavy equipment.
But you just move slow.
You learn from what you did.
Even today, I mean...
irrigating with my gated pipe,I learned a better way to
irrigate my field.
(33:06):
Nine years later, and it savedme three hours.
I've been burning three hoursat the daylight for the last
nine years doing it wrong.
And I wish that Franklin wasstill around.
He passed away a few years ago,but he would come up and visit
a couple times a year.
And I just have this list of,you know, a hundred things I had
(33:28):
to ask him because It is timethat makes you more efficient.
You know, as a teacher andbeing mentors to younger
teachers, I just said, man, thefirst three years, we all stink.
Like, you're going to figure itout.
You're going to put a lot oftime in and you're going to
(33:48):
figure it out and how to do itwell.
But anytime you do somethingnew, you're just not going to be
good at it.
Right.
You know, I always tell thekids, if you are, holy moly,
maybe you found your careerpath.
Right.
But you can still be evenbetter at it.
And that's what farming tellsme every day.
Whether it's a four by fourfoot patch of grass that for
(34:11):
some reason isn't working, youknow, or if it's a hundred
thousand dollar pivot sprinklerthat broke on you.
For some reason it isn'tworking.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, because I learned how tofix the 70-year-old one for nine
years, I now know how tooperate and fix the new one, you
(34:32):
know, five times as fast.
So, yeah, it can be stressful.
Farming can be lonely,especially during those times.
And what I would say is Italked about my cohort that kind
of fired up and got strongerand stronger during the SARE
grant.
Like during those times where Iused to cry those first five
(34:55):
years in a field alone, I sendthose guys a text message and we
commiserate, you know, and wekind of brainstorm through it.
Or at the very worst, at theend of the day, maybe we meet up
for a beer or a coffee and welaugh about it.
I think that's how you getthrough life.
Unknown (35:18):
Yep.
Speaker 00 (35:20):
I really appreciate your taking time and talking us
through.
I really enjoyed hearing abouthow you're all learning together
and how your emphasis on theeducation, the self-sufficiency,
sounds like you're doing greatwork and learning every day.
And I think that's a lot ofgood advice to remind people
that it takes a while to getthere and there's going to be
(35:42):
failures and you're learning andit's going to work out.
So
Speaker 03 (35:46):
thank you.
It's an awesome experience.
There you go.
Speaker 00 (35:51):
Well, thanks for joining us today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 03 (35:54):
For sure.
Thank you, guys.
Thanks, Rick.
Appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Speaker 01 (35:57):
Thank you.
Okay.
Bye.
Speaker 00 (36:02):
Thank you for listening to Fresh Growth.
We hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
For more information on WesternSARE Grounds and our learning
resources, visitwesternsare.org.
Hello and welcome to season five of Fresh Growth, a
podcast by the Western SAREprogram at Sustainable
Agriculture Research andEducation.
I'm your host, Steve Elliott,alongside co-host Stacey Clary.
Thanks for listening for thepast four seasons, and we're
excited to sit down with moreinnovative producers this year.
Just for background, WesternSARE is funded by the U.S.
(00:29):
Department of Agriculture'sNational Institute of Food and
Agriculture.
We promote sustainable farmingand ranching across the American
West through research,education, and communication
efforts like this podcast.
Fresh Growth highlightsproducers and agricultural
professionals from around theWest who are embracing new ways
of farming and ranching.
They'll tell us about theirexperiences adopting more
(00:52):
sustainable practices and thechallenges and benefits they've
seen.
Today's guest is Rick Bietermanof Watershed Ranch in
Colorado's Upper Arkansas RiverValley.
Watershed Ranch is a 168-acreagricultural property comprising
60 acres of irrigated haypastures, 70 acres of forest,
(01:13):
and two homesteads dating backto 1886.
Rick, welcome and thanks forsitting down with us today.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 00 (01:22):
To start us off, please tell us a little bit more
about Watershed Ranch so we canlearn about the location, the
climate.
And when did you get started?
Speaker 03 (01:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
So the Arkansas Valley,Arkansas River Valley is
centrally located in Colorado,deep in the mountains.
We are at the headwaters of theArkansas River, just below
Leadville.
And our farm watershed ranchsits at just over 9,000 feet
(01:52):
elevation.
Right behind us, we've got thethird tallest mountain in in the
States, in Mount Harvard.
And our water just comesrip-roaring down those creeks
right to the farm.
It is a high alpine desert,which is kind of interesting and
unique.
I'm not totally sure why peopledecided to farm there.
(02:15):
Our climate is, you know,pretty darn cold and dry.
Here we are on June 2nd, and...
Our water coming off the creekis still mid 40 degrees.
So farming in our neighborhoodis a treat.
(02:36):
I'm right there along withcacti.
So yeah, not only is it cold,but being a desert, we've got
some interesting conditions togrow and farm.
But that's what I do.
And I feel like I do it fairlywell.
Speaker 00 (02:56):
With all those challenges, climate and all
that, how did you come to farmin that location?
Speaker 03 (03:05):
You know, I would say farming was almost an
afterthought.
I hate to say that on a farmingpodcast, but the beauty, the
nature that I grew up loving wasmountains.
Every chance I could go find amountain, I wanted to find it.
(03:26):
And so the Arkansas Valley ischock full of mountains.
My wife grew up in Indiana andis generational farming.
So I would say the farmingpiece is more on her end, but
over the last nine years offarming...
(03:46):
I've learned a lot and kind offigured out how to do it and how
to meet the smart people thatknow how to do it better so that
what we call a 50-year projectturns into a good one.
Speaker 01 (04:05):
So tell us a little about what you grow.
And I like the...
finding the smart people whoknow how to do it better.
I mean, and how you'veincorporated that into making
that challenging location work.
Speaker 03 (04:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think first andforemost, most farmers would
say you start learning by doingand you start learning by
talking to your neighbors who,who love to talk.
And I've got farming neighborswho have been here for five
generations who know the land sowell.
And, um, you know, just over acup of coffee or a weekly
(04:42):
morning breakfast.
You get to learn from them.
Being about two hours away fromany bigger city and having, I
grew up in Chicago, and I feltlike one thing that was missing
from rural Colorado here was aconnection to academia, right?
(05:05):
And so that was a connectionthat I'd been searching for,
especially over the last fiveyears, six years.
How could I make thoseconnections with the scientists?
My background prior to this wasteaching.
So I was a high school physicsteacher, environmental science
(05:25):
teacher, and I'm always tryingto get that sort of competitive
advantage from tapping intothose super smart science
people.
That's kind of what I've doneover the last five years via
NRCS grants, via National ForestFoundation grants, obviously
(05:48):
the SARE grant here, and thenthe STAR soil program as well
that's put on through ourconservancy.
That's all led to thesewonderful connections with
scientists.
And currently right now, Icould send out an email and
within 10 minutes be connectedwith an agronomist out of CSU,
(06:09):
Colorado State University, who'sbeen out to the farm and
understands the operation.
So, yeah, I feel like it'staken almost a decade, but I
have the local connections andnow I have these awesome
scientists that are willing tohelp for virtually nothing.
Just the whole idea of Let'ssave the planet.
Speaker 01 (06:34):
Yeah, well, it's their job.
Has the local connection gonethe other way as well now that
you've made the connections withCSU and some of the other
academic kind of programs?
Are you able to share some ofwhat they teach you to your
neighbors?
Oh, 100%.
I
Speaker 03 (06:53):
have a wonderful cohort now that we've formed
over the last four years throughour Star Soil program.
One of them is the local fruitsand veggies farmer who runs the
CSA.
Another one is thesuperintendent of the golf
course.
And another one operates a duderanch.
And we meet monthly, both inand out of season.
(07:16):
And we are always bouncingideas off of each other.
The CSU...
grant that I just became a partof this last year was actually
handing out these really niftyhandheld probes that allow you
to probe the soil for moisture,humidity, temperature.
And so we have eight of themnow in the valley that the four
(07:38):
of us are shuffling back andforth to each other.
Currently, I teach at theelementary school, so I've got
400 little kids that have theirhands on these CSU probes that
are they're just doing it intheir little Dixie cups of beans
and peas that we grow in class.
But I'm showing them that I'mdoing it on a grander scale on
(08:00):
the agricultural acreage.
And then my cohort here isdoing the same.
So yeah, it's been verytransferable.
And it happens to work out realwell that I do most of mine
during the teaching.
And then I hand off thesedevices to The farmers who are
growing as well in thesummertime and the dude ranch
(08:22):
who has thousands of kids in andout of their 400 acre facility.
So I feel like the power ofSARE, the power of these bigger
picture supports and grants hasdefinitely trickled down to our
little valley.
And what I've realized is I amnot just surrounded by 80 year
(08:45):
old fifth-generation farmers whoare, you know, they can put
their finger in the soil andknow what the temperature and
humidity is.
I'm surrounded by a lot ofpeople who are intrigued and
inspired to learn more and morewhat's out there.
Speaker 01 (09:03):
So the part that we've sort of skipped over is
what do you grow?
What's your farm like?
Oh, yeah.
Well,
Speaker 03 (09:10):
we've got about 90 frost-free days where I'm at.
So...
We're keeping it kind of simpleup here, at least on our farm
anyway.
We've got hay, we've gotalfalfa, we've got clover.
I do a three-acre pollinatorhabitat that was an NRCS
(09:31):
project, and I'm still pickingweeds like crazy two years into
it.
But it's turning into a prettymagical space that ultimately
the grant was given to.
cut down on on usage of waterin certain areas that weren't
thriving and so I'm sort ofseeing that scientific piece of
(09:53):
okay conservation how do youcreate a beautiful space and use
less water doing it and I feellike that's what a lot of
Colorado farmers are trying tofigure out I don't know if
you're aware of sort of Coloradowater law but it is it is a
wild beast I mean We get anemail every day, and there's a
(10:16):
born-on date to it, and thatdate tells you whether or not
you can use your water.
And so we are at the mercy ofthe state and how a lot of
reservoirs further south of usare in terms of storage and
fill, and also Kansas as wellbecause water flows downstream,
and when Kansas demands it, theyget it in priority.
(10:38):
So being at the headwaters, wecan see all of this beautiful
runoff But some days we areforced to run it off.
Just watch it go.
Just watch, say goodbye.
Yep.
So yeah, we do hay.
The other thing that we do onthis farm is hydroelectricity.
We've got two hydro powerplants that we have what's
(11:00):
called a non-consumptive righton.
So we can run our creek waterthrough those power plants and
then it can go into the riverand on down to, you know,
wherever it needs to go.
So that's kind of a piece tothe property too you know I
think all farmers are trying tofigure out how to diversify
their income and we produce theequivalent of about 30 average
(11:26):
homes in terms of energy use andwe don't obviously use that
much energy but we sell it backto the grid and you know we've
had some kind of ideas here andthere about what else to do with
it maybe we channel it into abigger greenhouse operation.
When we bought the propertynine years ago, we were getting
(11:50):
good money for it, about sevencents on the kilowatt.
And it amounted to about$20,000 a year.
So it was quite a, I would say,mildly passive income.
I mean, the thing breaks allthe time.
But now, because, and this is agood thing, because renewable
(12:12):
energy is easier to get.
That $0.07 dropped to about$0.01.
And so we lost that nest egg offunding.
We still produce the exact sameamount of energy.
Our local co-op charges us$0.15 a kilowatt for it.
They give us one.
So projects like this, we'retrying to figure out Is there a
(12:36):
win-win in something
Speaker 01 (12:37):
like
Speaker 03 (12:38):
that?
Is there a
Speaker 01 (12:38):
way to use it on your farm?
Speaker 03 (12:41):
Yes.
So partnering with otherfarmers, you know, the fruit and
veggie guy that I was talkingabout that runs the CSA, he
would love to have morehothouses to be able to do his
thing and expand and develop.
Because as I said, the growingseason is just terrible out
here.
And the soils are terrible too.
Speaker 00 (13:05):
You also mentioned watching water, and I know
you're doing a lot of differentprojects on your site.
What are some of the thingsyou're working on that helps you
be more efficient with wateruse?
Speaker 03 (13:17):
Yeah, well, I can tell you the guy we bought from,
his name was Franklin, andFranklin had been here for 50
years.
He bought the place at 450acres and slowly subdivided.
He was a builder.
and an engineer.
His dad had invented all kindsof farming implements when he
was a kid back in Texas.
So, I mean, this guy could dojust about anything, probably at
(13:41):
about 10 years old.
So one of the amazing thingsthat he did was he put all of
our water in pipe all the way tothe head gates.
Now, what that means is that wehave seven miles of underground
pipe that run five feet deepunderground.
all the way through theforests.
We butt up to the nationalforest.
(14:01):
And then they meet the creeksthat we have our water rights
on.
And so I think Franklin is theguy to thank for water
efficiency.
I mean, there is zeroinfiltration into the soil.
It's virtually, well, fairly afriction-free system.
It's just running down throughPVC pipe.
(14:23):
And there's no evaporation.
And so...
You know, if we have four cubicfeet per second of water
starting at the head gate fivemiles away, we're one of the few
farms in the valley that'sactually getting all of that
water once it hits the farm.
Everybody else is in an openditch and they're less than 50%
(14:44):
of their take.
So I guess from an efficiencysystem, what that means is we
have the ability to take morewater I think the criticism
comes into play with Franklinbecause in doing that, sure, his
farm got more water, but allthe creeks that ran through the
forest are now underground.
(15:05):
So, yeah, I always talk aboutefficiencies, conservation, and
preservation, too, but I feellike...
The efficiencies began withFranklin putting seven miles of
underground pipe, and nobodywould do that today.
It would cost millions andmillions of dollars.
(15:26):
But it was an NRCS program thathe somehow finagled his way
into also being the generalcontractor on it.
I don't think it works that wayanymore.
Paperwork in the 70s was, youknow.
You added proposition, youknow.
(15:47):
But it all comes down to ourfarm.
And from there, we've got about50 acres that are pivot
irrigated.
We recently upgraded thosepivots.
They were over 70 years old.
This is another testament toFranklin for being able to keep
everything alive forever.
But in upgrading with that NRCSgrant, we're using far less
(16:12):
water than what those70-year-old pivots were doing.
Everything's metered, and gosh,it works so much better.
I mean, we do have about 20acres of gated pipe, but I can
tell you just from working thefields, I mean, I can irrigate
50 acres of land specificallymore efficiently than I can two
(16:37):
acres of gated pipe.
And I think anybody who knowsfarming knows that those
inventions have beenlife-changing.
Except for when the filtersbreak seven miles up and you've
got fish shooting out of yoursprinklers.
Speaker 02 (16:52):
Ouch.
Speaker 03 (16:56):
You've got to deal with these things.
It's fun.
It's fun.
I fail every day, but I'll tellyou what, it builds character.
And I have a seven-year-old anda four-year-old, and they're
out there with me going, Dad,isn't this dangerous?
I usually say, no, it happensabout a dozen times a year.
(17:18):
It's okay.
We're going to figure it out.
Speaker 00 (17:21):
Nice.
Well, you mentionedspecifically a Western Sare
grant.
And it is related to whatyou're trying to do as far as
building soils.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat work and how is that
turning out for you?
Speaker 03 (17:37):
Yeah, this has been a grant that began from the STAR
program.
And then our conservancy said,hey, I know a lady who got a
SARE grant and she's loving it.
You want to give it a go?
And I said, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Tell me what to do.
And together we wrote thegrants and we are in year three
(18:01):
now of SARE grants.
And what it amounts to isbuilding large, no churn compost
piles, everything on site.
So we're not talking aboutfancy fertilizers.
We're talking about just kindof going back to your old roots
of wood chips, you know, layersof wood chips.
We use Aspen up here orCottonwood up here.
(18:23):
Followed by manure.
We've got plenty of it.
And then followed by hay.
And I've got two piles going.
Both of them are about 20 yardslong and about 10 feet wide and
about 8 to 10 feet tall.
One of them is that layeredsystem that I was talking about.
A soil scientist out of NewZealand, she does a lot of
(18:47):
consulting up in Montana.
Nicole Masters is her
Speaker 02 (18:50):
name.
Speaker 03 (18:51):
And I met Nicole at a conservancy event and just
kind of picked her brain on howdo they do it in Montana?
God, that seems like a terribleplace to farm.
And she just said, I'll tellyou what, they all make about
$20,000 to $30,000 just turningout compost.
(19:12):
And I just said, well, tell mehow it's done.
And she just said, well, here'sthe easiest one.
You don't even have to turnthis thing.
And what it is is a high fungalcompost that you really just
let sit every day.
And you keep it at a certainmoisture, about 70% moisture.
And that's basically grabbing ahandful and squeezing it.
(19:36):
Maybe a little bit drops out, alittle liquid drops out.
So you're watering it daily.
But then in Montana and inColorado, there comes a time
where everything freezes overfor five months.
And you just bundle it up undera whole bunch of hay.
You introduce worms after thatthermophilic phase, which is
(19:59):
about two weeks into it.
And surprisingly, the last twoyears when I've uncovered my
piles, man, these worms are justthriving.
And the black...
compost that you produce fromthis.
Oh my gosh, it's amazingcompared to what goes in, which
is usually dry as a bone and I'mwatering it for weeks and weeks
(20:22):
and weeks just to get it tothat 70% moisture.
But it has been a game changerand it's actually, for me,
replaced all syntheticfertilizer on my farm.
Typically what I do is I turnthis compost into a liquid and
just by placing it in a giantvat with a bubbler, and I bubble
(20:43):
it for about four hours.
And after I bubble it, I feedit into a sprayer, filter and
feed it into a sprayer, kind oflike making a tea.
And I'm either spraying off mytruck and tractor, or I'm
injecting into the pivots.
And year one, I think Imentioned this to you, Steve,
(21:04):
terrible, terrible yields.
I mean...
I was doing synthetic side byside with the organic compost
and synthetic was grown fivetimes the rate of what the
organic was.
But I've kept at it.
Now I'm in year three and justapplying onto the fields now
(21:25):
because, of course, temperaturesof the soil are just hitting 55
degrees here in June.
Yeah.
But I am extremely hopefulbased on last year's results of
yields.
Last year was one of my bestyields yet.
So what I've learned is, and Iknow other people that are doing
this in the San Luis Valley, isthere is a bit of a lag time.
(21:47):
That first year, they didn'tsee any results either.
But year two, three, and four,they're starting to see their
fields catch up to what washappening synthetically.
So yeah, my quest to get offsynthetic fertilizers, It began
the year COVID hit whenfertilizer prices went through
the roof.
(22:07):
And that's when I started mySTAR soil program.
And so I am in year four now ofthe STAR program, and this will
be year three of the SARE.
And yeah, I know the grant sortof expires at the end of this
year, but I plan on continuingthese practices as long as I
(22:29):
can.
I mean, it's virtually freewhere I was having fertilizer
bills of, you know, $7,000 ayear.
Speaker 01 (22:38):
How did your piles over winter this year?
Did they get through withoutfreezing over?
Yeah.
So
Speaker 03 (22:46):
year one, I had some freeze in that pile that wasn't
southern facing as much.
Year two, they did not freeze.
And one of the things I did wasI...
Right.
Right.
Right.
(23:11):
Which is pretty amazing.
And that is another side hustlethere, too, figuring out how to
(23:34):
sell the worms and the
Speaker 01 (23:35):
vermicompost.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Are you seeing a market forthat yet, other than what you're
using on your own farm?
Are your neighbors interested?
Are you finding some way tomonetize it?
Speaker 03 (23:49):
Absolutely.
The worms, I'm selling them.
I'm an elementary schoolteacher.
Kids love nothing more thanworms, right?
Right.
So I do all these activities inclass that are tied to farming
and soil and plants.
And, you know, the kids go homeand they tell their parents,
oh, I got to play with theseworms.
And so that component ofeducation that is, you know,
(24:15):
paramount in the SARE grantstoo, has also led to this, I
wouldn't call it an industryyet, But I would say a little
bit of a side income on sellingthe worms.
Now, as far as selling thecompost, most of what I've done
so far is just give it away totest.
I feel like two years in,though I'm getting some good
(24:39):
soil samples and compostreadings and fungal growth looks
great and ratios look great.
I want to continue to trial iton my farm.
I don't want to sell somebody aphony product.
So that cohort of four that Imentioned to you, I'll bring it
over to them in my trailer anddump them off a big old pile so
(25:03):
they can do their own tests withtheir fruit and veggies and in
certain areas to check outgrowth.
And once I can see that, yeah,I do have a good product, then
yes, the hope is that I amselling these piles because I'm
making a lot more than I need onmy farm.
When you do the liquifying, alittle goes a long way.
(25:25):
So that's been my mainapplication.
I've also applied just the rawcompost in little 20 foot by 20
foot squares that I'm monitoringtoo.
So far, I haven't seen anysuper significant differences in
those spaces.
But again, maybe there's a lagyear.
I just started doing it lastyear, so maybe this year I'll
(25:48):
see something dramatic.
Time will tell.
Like I said, it's a 50-yearproject.
Speaker 01 (25:53):
It's a
Speaker 03 (25:53):
long
Speaker 01 (25:53):
game.
Are your neighbors liquefyingit when they apply, or are they
spreading it?
It's up to
Speaker 03 (26:00):
them.
I
Speaker 01 (26:01):
sell it to
Speaker 03 (26:01):
them in little five-gallon buckets that they
come and pick up.
A five-gallon bucket, that'sabout 30 pounds worth.
That can produce you about 100gallons.
if you're doing it on a scale,grand scale.
So they just keep a bucket intheir garage and they put it on
(26:22):
their smaller fields.
Now with the bigger farmfields, I'll bring my dump
trailer over and dump them moremasses.
And they're liquefying.
Okay.
Yeah, and that's what mostpeople in the San Luis Valley
are doing, too.
Most of them all have theinjectors right into their
pivots.
Into the pivots, yeah.
It's just pretty slick as longas you are able to filter out
(26:44):
the gunk.
Speaker 00 (26:48):
Well, and you love education.
I know you've got a videoseries.
I did.
How did you choose to do thevideo series, and how's that
going?
Speaker 03 (26:56):
Yeah, so I've got a couple of friends who are
YouTube sensations, and...
I'm still not set on theYouTube world, but I'll tell you
what, it has been an educationfor me being two hours away from
any kind of big city.
So I am definitely somebodywho's learned how to farm and
(27:16):
fix tractors from the 40s and60s that I'm still using by
getting on YouTube and findingthe right guy.
And so I thought I would piecetogether these little YouTube
video clips and I did that onyear one, did a couple edits on
year two.
And then here over the nextfour months, my plan is to take
(27:36):
those little clips.
Some of them are one to threeminutes long, which I actually
prefer watching the quick video,but I'm going to blend them all
together to kind of tell thestory of the two and a half year
Sarah project and what I'velearned.
And then I'll also embeddiagrams and visuals.
And I hope that, you know,people like me are getting on
(27:59):
and finding them.
Because like I said, it is ahuge help.
You know, before I started theSarah Grant, I was all over
YouTube watching people compostand, you know, making compost in
North Carolina where it's 90%humidity is a little different
than making compost here whereit's 10% humidity.
(28:19):
And so, you know, understandingthat and taking those videos
with a grain of salt or beingable to be flexible with your
recipe is really important toyour success.
Speaker 00 (28:34):
I did have one question.
You've mentioned the STARproject quite a few times, and I
am familiar with it, but couldyou briefly describe what the
STAR program or project is inColorado?
Yeah, so STAR...
Speaker 03 (28:51):
I got connected through STAR through our Central
Colorado Conservancy.
And they were picking aboutseven farmers to join in the
program.
It is tied to, I believe, NRCSgrant funding.
And basically, you form anexperiment and you trial that
(29:11):
experiment on your field and youmake a three-year commitment to
it.
You have a cohort.
That cohort meets virtuallyevery Or they meet together,
depending on how far away y'alllive.
And you're just consistentlybouncing ideas off of each
other.
And so my cohort of seven, Istill stay really close to three
(29:31):
of those.
They live within a 15-miledistance of our farm.
And, you know, I'm tryingthings that they tried out.
You know, whether that'splanting radishes to help
impacted soil.
It's just one of these things.
I'm lugging my compost up to afriend's farm there in Leadville
to try it out too.
(29:52):
So I feel like what it has doneis just connected me with a
whole other world of people whoare willing to try new things.
That's what I was going for.
And yeah, I'm just looking forthat next thread to pull.
But that's where I started, andit was very low stakes.
(30:13):
Your project was yours to pick,and my project had to do with
also the fertilizers, trying toget off those synthetics.
And so that kick-started thisSARE idea of growing my own.
I was going down to a guy'sfarm in the San Luis Valley and
(30:34):
buying compost, and it was aneight-hour round trip, and
lugging it out.
And I wasn't sure if this stuffwas just dirt from the ground
or if it was legit and doing itmyself has empowered me to DIY,
do it myself, but also saved me$5,000.
And so that self-sufficiencyis, well, it's at a whole new
(31:02):
level once I started beingconnected with these formalized
programs.
Great, thank you.
Again, not to say that myneighbors don't know what
they're doing, because I dothink they do, but it's also
been fun to watch them ask memore questions and come over to
my farm and take a look too,because my first five years of
(31:23):
farming, I was living over attheir farms going, wait, what
does this thing do?
Speaker 01 (31:31):
You mentioned at the beginning, and I'm going to
circle back, to something youjust said.
You mentioned at the beginningthat like you fail every day,
but then you're just talkingabout learning to be
self-sufficient, which is goingto require failure.
I mean, that's sort of the, ifyou're going to try something
new, you're going to learnthings and you're going to learn
what doesn't work more than,you know, what does.
(31:52):
For somebody else who's justgetting into farming, how do you
let them know that this is theprocess?
This is how it's going to be,you know, and staying afloat
while you do it.
Speaker 03 (32:03):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I think it was ablessing that we bought a farm
from a guy who lived here for 50years who tried not to replace
a thing.
He tried to fix it all.
And I shadowed him for abouttwo months prior to buying the
place.
And I just said, you got toshow me how to do everything.
(32:24):
I am going to break my phoneout and videotape you every
minute.
And, you know, this is how I'mgoing to learn.
I'm going to go back and I'mgoing to watch the videos.
And in doing that, you know,that was a head start.
But still, every day I lose.
Every day I fail.
But, you know, I've beentelling my students that for 20
(32:46):
years.
It's all a process.
And the stakes may be higher onyour farm when you're working
with heavy equipment.
But you just move slow.
You learn from what you did.
Even today, I mean...
irrigating with my gated pipe,I learned a better way to
irrigate my field.
(33:06):
Nine years later, and it savedme three hours.
I've been burning three hoursat the daylight for the last
nine years doing it wrong.
And I wish that Franklin wasstill around.
He passed away a few years ago,but he would come up and visit
a couple times a year.
And I just have this list of,you know, a hundred things I had
(33:28):
to ask him because It is timethat makes you more efficient.
You know, as a teacher andbeing mentors to younger
teachers, I just said, man, thefirst three years, we all stink.
Like, you're going to figure itout.
You're going to put a lot oftime in and you're going to
(33:48):
figure it out and how to do itwell.
But anytime you do somethingnew, you're just not going to be
good at it.
Right.
You know, I always tell thekids, if you are, holy moly,
maybe you found your careerpath.
Right.
But you can still be evenbetter at it.
And that's what farming tellsme every day.
Whether it's a four by fourfoot patch of grass that for
(34:11):
some reason isn't working, youknow, or if it's a hundred
thousand dollar pivot sprinklerthat broke on you.
For some reason it isn'tworking.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, because I learned how tofix the 70-year-old one for nine
years, I now know how tooperate and fix the new one, you
(34:32):
know, five times as fast.
So, yeah, it can be stressful.
Farming can be lonely,especially during those times.
And what I would say is Italked about my cohort that kind
of fired up and got strongerand stronger during the SARE
grant.
Like during those times where Iused to cry those first five
(34:55):
years in a field alone, I sendthose guys a text message and we
commiserate, you know, and wekind of brainstorm through it.
Or at the very worst, at theend of the day, maybe we meet up
for a beer or a coffee and welaugh about it.
I think that's how you getthrough life.
Unknown (35:18):
Yep.
Speaker 00 (35:20):
I really appreciate your taking time and talking us
through.
I really enjoyed hearing abouthow you're all learning together
and how your emphasis on theeducation, the self-sufficiency,
sounds like you're doing greatwork and learning every day.
And I think that's a lot ofgood advice to remind people
that it takes a while to getthere and there's going to be
(35:42):
failures and you're learning andit's going to work out.
So
Speaker 03 (35:46):
thank you.
It's an awesome experience.
There you go.
Speaker 00 (35:51):
Well, thanks for joining us today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 03 (35:54):
For sure.
Thank you, guys.
Thanks, Rick.
Appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Speaker 01 (35:57):
Thank you.
Okay.
Bye.
Speaker 00 (36:02):
Thank you for listening to Fresh Growth.
We hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
For more information on WesternSARE Grounds and our learning
resources, visitwesternsare.org.
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