July 30, 2023 • 43 mins
Understanding the challenges and complexities posed by climate evolution can be daunting.
In this episode on the podcast, our guest Ashoke Mohanraj is a sustainability advocate and book author who is a Top25U25 Environmentalist from Canada.
He's an individual who isn't afraid to navigate the gray areas of complex issues surrounding sustainability, and helps guide us beyond the typical views on climate change.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into Ashoke's personal motivation, rooted in his #SriLankan heritage, and that part of the world facing the wrath of climate deterioration. We take a full circle on the importance of inclusivity in climate conversations, revealing how to strike a balance between enjoying life and still advocating for the planet. It's not merely about eco-friendliness, but bringing diverse perspectives to the table to truly understand sustainability- thereby breaking barriers.
Here are some chapter highlights :
- Sustainability and Climate Change Exploration
- Importance of Inclusivity in Climate Talks
- Navigating the Path to Environmental Activism
- Why environmental advocacy is for young men as well( Ashoke's book "Pollinator Man")
-Paths to Success in Sustainable Living
As we go further along, Ashoke shares his path from being one of the few people of color in environmental activism to his experiences representing at the UN - a journey that is as inspiring as it is enlightening. He also provides valuable advice for those looking to get into environmental activism. Ashoke's best selling book Pollinator Man, portrays a masculine super hero at the center of environmental conservation - a resource that every child can learn from and do their part to make our daily lives better.
The importance of keeping an open mind and the willingness to pivot when necessary is emphasized well by our guest. Ashoke's passion for creating a sustainable future is contagious, via his books and visual media/TV projects he's currently involved in and it's our sincere hope that every listener, every citizen in this planet can draw inspiration to do more in preserving our planet ! Stay tuned for his next book and future projects. A not to miss conversation, and a role model to emulate, for betterment of our mission to lead a sustainable future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vai (00:09):
Welcome to Freshleaf Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, vaikumar.
Hey folks, welcome to anotherepisode on Podcast Freshleaf
Forever.
Today I have here with usAshoke Mohanraj.
He is a sustainability advocate, book author and he has done so
(00:32):
much more.
I think it's about time we letAshoke speak.
So, hey, ashok, welcome to theshow.
How are you today?
Ashoke (00:40):
Hey Vai, thanks for having me Really excited to be
on the show and just talk aboutmy work.
But yeah, happy to be here.
Vai (00:45):
I think there are major issues the world is facing today
as it relates to sustainabilityright and if we were to look at
the different categories, ashok, based on all the work that you
have been doing, looks likeit's not just climate, as has
been perceived by many right.
So why don't we start with thatand have you guide us through
(01:08):
your journey and what you thinkon that front?
Ashoke (01:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I guess that's a big questionto start with.
And so I've been in this spacefor about, I would say, like
maybe seven years now, Kind of.
When I first started, I mean,the whole reason that I got into
this space was actually like Iwas interested in solving the
energy crisis.
You know, I thought I would bestudying physics, studying solar
panels and trying to be likethe next Elon Musk.
But as I kind of went on thatjourney, I realized that, you
(01:34):
know, solving the climate crisisis more than a matter of pure
science.
There's so much more differentintricacies from a social and
economic perspective.
And that's kind of what gagedmy interest really early on,
because I kind of shift myframework to how the systems
interact rather than how to,like.
You know, instead of working insilos, how do all these things
interconnect?
(01:54):
And the first thing that youlearn in an ecology class is
everything is interconnected.
And that kind of resonated withme, because you can't solve one
thing without solving a bunchof different other things that
are connected.
I mean, based on what I've seenso far throughout my journey,
like there are a variety ofissues from a solutions based
perspective, the biggestchallenge that I see is just.
I mean, it's better in Canada.
(02:15):
This is true like polarizationamong people.
People tend to have reallystrong feelings either for it or
against it.
I think that's a huge barrier,because I think people often
believe that this, this issue,is black and white.
You're either on one side orthe other side.
But I think what people don'trealize that most of what
climate change is is the inbetween the state gray area,
(02:35):
because it affects everyone, andthat middle area gets lost in
translation.
I think that's the biggestchallenge that we face is kind
of getting people to realizethat as long as you're doing
what you can?
that's kind of the key, the keyto the solution.
Vai (02:47):
Okay, what about the triggering aspect?
For you, as I see it, it's likedifferent pieces to this puzzle
right solving and being able to, I guess, in terms of focusing
on sustainability for the planetas such, if you were to nail
down on a triggering aspect thatled you to just think and say,
(03:08):
hey, I have to do more, and thenI have to make people do more,
what would you say?
That would be a shock.
Ashoke (03:15):
Yeah, that's a good question and, like, personally,
like I don't know if I can comeup with a single moment, but
there there's a couple thingsthat I can think of from the top
of my head and one it justcomes back to like where I'm
from.
My parents are from Sri Lanka.
Early on in my career I learnedthat you know, sri Lanka is one
of the most vulnerable nationsto rising sea levels.
Specifically, there's alwaysthis thought in the back of my
mind that preventing climatechange and adaptation to rising
(03:36):
sea levels is super important tome, because a lot of people
from Sri Lanka and other coastalareas are going to be displaced
and you know they'll becomeclimate refugees and whatnot,
and so, at the back of my mind,that's always super important to
me.
Like you know, I have aresponsibility to look down for
my planet, not just because thephysical element, because you
know when people get displacedand get lost, you know you not
only lose, you know people useheritage, you lose cultures, you
(03:58):
lose language, and for methat's important to me, as do
eventually, you know, hopefullybecome a father one day.
You know that's an importantthing that I keep in mind at the
back of my head every day.
But then the other thing isagain it goes back to everything
is interconnected, right?
I think I realized that from ayoung age, right kind of three
different kinds of issues in theworld there's environmental
issues, there's social issuesand economic issues.
None of it matters unless youhave clean air and clean water
(04:20):
to consume, right?
So at the very foundation ofour societies, of our economies,
you need to have cleancommodities, clean resources,
and that's kind of why you knowI figured you know what's the
best way to solve.
Most of the problems areworking to have the most impact,
or what's the most fundamentalproblem to solve.
And that's kind of where I kindof landed.
On pursuing environment orclimate studies.
I like to say, like you know,rosa Parks would have sat on the
(04:42):
front of the bus for nothing ifshe didn't have clean water,
right.
So you know all those civilrights issues and whatnot.
Economic issues, they comeafter providing basic human
rights, basic sustenance inorder to survive, and that comes
from protecting our planet.
Vai (04:55):
Aha, that's wonderful.
It's really cool that you havefocused on the environmental
side and you have written insome of your pieces that you
probably were very differentfrom that standpoint and even
people interested in it withdidn't think it was cool, right?
How do you think we can makepeople focus on these and how
(05:15):
can we bring attention to theseaspects?
Are shook meaning gettingpeople more involved and say
willingness to be part of thisconversation?
Ashoke (05:25):
Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest challenges, and
I think you just mentioned it.
Like my kind of goal or missionis how do we make caring cool
right?
And that's kind of how Iapproach it, because a lot of my
audience are the people that Iwork with, our young boys or men
, and that's kind of I foundthat's kind of the key to kind
of engage in them.
It's all about getting goingback to communication your ideas
only as good as you cancommunicate it.
(05:46):
So how do you?
How do you communicate in a waythat makes things appealing?
And so for me, for my audiencespecifically, it's how do you
show people that that caring iscool?
And so the way that I do thatis you know different mediums
right.
Like if you go out to a personand say plastic pollution is bad
because of A, b and C yes, asvalid points, it's logical
reasoning, at the same time likeyou're not engaging with their
(06:08):
emotions and at the same timelike emotions are the most, most
powerful motivator, right.
So that's I feel like that'skind of how you kind of get
people to engage and that's kindof why, as of late, I've been
trying to use entertainment as amedium, so whether that's books
or television kind of showpeople, you know not only
visually but like emotionally,how these stories can can affect
us, right, and that's kind of abig motivational factor.
(06:28):
But I think, like, if we boil itdown to a step one, I think it
goes back to how we choose toframe these issues right, like,
again, pollution, like we cansay pollution is an
environmental issue or climatechange is an environmental issue
, we have to say that it's allan all-encompassing issue
because when water is pollutedit's not only affecting, you
know, the fish species andmarine wildlife, affects your
(06:49):
drinking water quality, affectsyour recreation ability to go to
a water skiing or whatnot,right, so it affects all those
different things.
I think if we frame in a waythat shows people that these
things aren't environmentalissues but they're issues that
affect us in our daily life,that's kind of the key.
I'd say, like the first step iskind of just breaking it down,
so it's so we change whatsomething means that when it's
(07:10):
an environmental issue, becausethe environment is so broad and
all-encompassing, Very well said.
Vai (07:16):
I think right there you pointed an example say, people
doing water sports, you know,going skiing.
If the conversation highlightswhatever impacts us on a
day-to-day basis, I think itmakes more sense right.
So, from an everyday standpoint, I show, say, recycling
practices to doing everythingthat's going on.
(07:36):
How could we ascertain asustainable future and how can
we get more folks to engage?
I know that's your number onegoal getting more folks to
engage, right Even amongst ournear circle, right on a daily
basis.
I'm sure you would have noticed, and I noticed, there's more to
be done, even when it comes tobasic recycling practices.
(08:00):
Act once home, right the firststep.
Leave alone public places.
How could we just get better onthat front?
Ashoke (08:08):
Yeah, that's a tough one and I think that always comes
down to like uncomfortableconversations, even with your
friends, like, if your frienddoesn't, you know, recycle or
whatnot, it's always hard tocall them out and whatnot for
that specifically.
Again, it really depends on theperson, right?
But I think here's how whatyou're doing is directly
impacting in a good and bad way.
Like, say, for example, likeyour friend, your roommate,
right, because I had this inuniversity, my friend would
(08:30):
always use plastic water bottlesand I would hate it and I would
tell him you know, we have atowel, bring your reusable water
bottles to save water, right,and then I would sometimes I
would call amount on thenegative impact that he was
having.
Look at all those plasticyou're wasting.
But also, buddy, if you, if youswitch that narrative to like,
if you do use reusable waterbottle, here's the positive
impact you can have.
And I think sometimes that canbe an even more powerful
(08:50):
motivator, right, if you can seethe positive change that
they're actually contributing to.
Like one example.
Again back to that example like, once he started using a
reusable water bottle, Icalculated how many plastic
water bottles he saved, you know, just for the sake of you know,
showing him that he made theright decision, and it wasn't
like a life changing decision oranything, but it showed him
that, you know, an individualimpact can have a significant
(09:12):
difference.
And I think if you can do that,you know to you know three to
five people in your circle andthey can do it to another three
to five people in their circleyou'd have a you know, a ripple
of change.
But yeah, I think staying,staying engaged is is hard
because, you know, sometimespeople lose the motivation.
Sometimes it's all aboutdiscipline, but I think it's
such momentum too right, likewhen you, when you see one thing
(09:34):
having a positive impact,you're more likely to move on to
another thing.
So, like when you startrecycling plastic water bottle,
you start moving on tocomposting.
Then you start looking into,you know, how you can make
smarter consumer decisions, howyou buy more ethical products.
I think it just becomesnaturally part of your, your
lifestyle.
I think also, just um, just likemarket trends are are a big
thing, and that I think that'snot something we can control on
(09:56):
an individual level.
But like even, for example,that's at walmart the other day,
and like it's good to see that.
Like nowadays, everyone therehas to have a reusable shopping
bag.
Right, it's no longer an optionto get a plastic bag at the
store, and that that took, youknow, decades of work.
But now we reach that pointbecause there's momentum for
that movement to reduce plastic.
(10:16):
That now is, you know, it'singrained in our society.
You know, if you don't come tothe store with the reusable bag,
you can't buy a plastic bag.
You gotta carry your groceriesin your hand.
That's kind of uh.
So it's a big win and it showspeople how, how momentum can
play a huge role.
It does.
It does take time, granted, butlike, it does show that, like,
keep following through withindividual actions and it will
lead to societal change.
(10:37):
At one point, or at least youcan hope, it will lead to
societal change fantastic.
Vai (10:41):
I think you said it beautifully there.
Even when you pointed to yourroommate about the number, the
bottom line impact that it washaving, say, even if he didn't
change right away, probably it,it just resonated with him in
terms of the number and theginormous impact that he could
have in this planet.
Right, so very well done thereand very beautifully said again
(11:05):
about, yeah, the shoppingexperience at Walmart.
No matter how rushed we are, wetry to do our best in my family
in terms of bringing our ownbags to the grocery store.
So, yeah, some days, yes, weare in a rush, we tend to forget
, but at the very least, ask forpaper bags at the store, not
(11:26):
the plastic.
Right again, looking atsustainability as a bigger piece
of puzzle, like you pointed out, it's not just flora, fauna and
the environment, right?
What other things do you see weneed to address?
Is it gender inequality?
Improving education, then again, some of my other guests on
(11:46):
this very show have focusedquite a bit on gender inequality
, how girls, educating girls,empowering girls, is all
important.
But, on the same token, I thinkyou, with your book pollinator
man, you have brought out thatit's still cool for men or young
(12:07):
boys to be involved in this andnot see environment as an issue
.
That's not masculine right.
So how would you take thisforward?
First, let's just what are theissues you see are being
hindrances to us, as citizens ofthis universe, being successful
in the sustainabilityinitiative?
Ashoke (12:28):
yeah, that's a super important question, the one that
resonates with me a lot,because I think, yeah, like I
mentioned earlier, one of thebiggest challenges that you know
people think that there arethese different silos and like
everything is separated.
The puzzle of sustainabilityincorporates a lot of different
pieces gender equity, education,health, literacy, that kind of
stuff.
And I think, like for me, yeah,the things that I focus on for,
(12:49):
for example, just education,engagement, communication stuff
like that, how that fits intoteaching people about
sustainability, talk about youknow, individual pieces I would
say like three biggest ones arenot not just a technical
education of you know climatescience, biology, chemistry and
all that stuff, but how we teachpeople to navigate complex
(13:10):
issues right, and kind of how weteach issues right, because
today climate isn't isn't partof like mainstream curriculums,
right, and I think having thatwould be would be huge and
getting you know kids engagednot just kids but, like you know
, university students, collegestudents and that and that their
young adult career to kind oflearn about these specific kinds
of issues and how they interactwith different disciplines.
(13:31):
I think another piece of thepuzzle is climate justice or
equity right.
When we talk about providingsolutions, we have to make sure
these solutions that are, thatare just and equitable for
different kinds of communitiesand how they affect different
kinds of communities, because,as we know, you know, no
solution is the same.
There's no one band-aidsolution that fits.
Also, ensuring that it's allit's all kind of takes into a
(13:52):
lot of different socioeconomicfactors and whatnot.
I think the third piece of thatsustainability puzzle is, you
know, understanding thatindividuals' freedoms and
desires are important to beconsidered as well.
Right, because as much as wewant to save the planet, you
know we're people first, we'readvocates second.
I like to say that because, atthe end of the day, like you
(14:15):
probably attest this, so youwant to enjoy your day.
At the end of the day, right,you want to be able to, you know
, have a filling life, have ahappy family, you know, enjoy
your hobbies and whatnot.
And so I think, while savingthe planet is important and it's
a very noble cause and forthose people who are, you know,
sacrificing everything to do it,most people, 90% of the people
who you know, who are engaged inthis space, are everyday,
(14:36):
normal people who still want tohave a filling life.
And so sometimes I wouldn't sayit gets in the way, but
sometimes we should prioritizeourselves and I think that's
okay, right to realize.
Like you know, sometimes if youwant to have that fried chicken
from KFC once in a while, it'sfine, and I think it's realizing
that.
You know, again, going back toit does not be black and white.
As long as you do what you canwhile still being able to feel
(14:58):
like you know you're doing goodfor the planet and you're still
enjoying your life because whenpeople become miserable they get
ego anxiety.
It's hard to sustain themomentum, but like when you have
the balance and when you'reable to, you know,
compartmentalize the differentparts of your life and still
kind of still be an advocatewhile still enjoying your life.
I think that's key.
Vai (15:18):
Well, you actually brought out something even earlier, just
helping them see the positiveside of it.
Just like you, gave your friendthe impactful numbers and told
him that this is how much you'regoing to help.
I think lending a positivetwist to it is definitely going
to help more people get engagedand still, at the end of the day
(15:41):
, even doing this project can bea fun part of their lives,
right Like a beach cleanup orwhatever that may be.
You know, do it as a groupactivity and still that could be
a Saturday fun day project,right From a diversity,
inclusivity and involvementstandpoint.
How do we make sure that we geteveryone a seat at the table in
(16:02):
terms of climate conversations,or not just climate, but in
helping see all the pieces thatconstitute a sustainable future
for this planet?
Ashok.
Ashoke (16:12):
Yeah, I think that's the key is bringing everyone to the
table right, because no matterwhether it's climate change or
mental health or economics, thekey in every solving every issue
is having diverse perspectivesand diverse attitudes and lived
experiences.
I think for that you have tohave an open mind.
Whoever is in charge of youknow these discussions has to
(16:33):
make sure that you're not onlyreinforcing your own beliefs but
are also being challenged tooutside beliefs.
I think we often fall into thistrap, especially in the climate
space or advocacy space that,like you know, we need, like we
only need to be in our ownlittle circles of advocacy work
and kind of just kind of talk tothose same people.
And I've been in roomspersonally where you know, you
(16:54):
know for book launches and youknow just events about climate
change, where people have likeliterally vilified, or they're
kind of toxic, or their opinionsdon't matter or they're not
valid or they're completelywrong.
And even though sometimes itmay be the case, even though if
you believe someone's opinion iswrong, I think it's wrong to
exclude them from theconversation entirely.
Like we still need to bringthose parties to the table right
(17:16):
, because when you automaticallyvilify a whole group of people
or a whole side of politicalspectrum.
They're not inclined to workwith you.
They don't want to work withyou, they don't want to listen
to your ideas, right?
I think that just raises morerift and more problems.
But at least being open to thatidea and having healthy debate
and uncomfortable conversationsis part of that process.
(17:36):
It's part of that journey andthen it's bound to happen.
In this space, most of theconversations that I have are
uncomfortable conversations.
That's just the nature of thiswork, right?
Because, again, because it'ssuch a polarized issue, you need
to have to be okay with thatrather than being like you know,
I don't want to have anuncomfortable conversation.
Therefore, I'm going to leavethese people out of the room,
(17:56):
because that's not the way yousolve the problem, like if you.
Because, again, if you solve itwithout considering how it
affects different people'slivelihoods and their lifestyle
and whatnot, it's not a justsolution, it's not an equitable
solution that can be sustainedfor a long time.
And that's kind of why I thinkit's important to bring
diversity to the table, not onlyfrom you know political beliefs
(18:17):
, but you know lived experiences, ethnic backgrounds, cultures,
languages, all that.
All that stuff.
Traditionally, we've been likeit's in the environment space.
It's led by Caucasian leadersand white people who have very
colonial centric viewpoints andkind of understandings of how
the world works.
Right.
I think by incorporating, youknow, in people of color, which
(18:38):
is something I've seen as adefinitely lacking, especially
in North America or in Canada,by having those diverse
perspectives, you challenge kindof what it means to be
sustainable or different ideasare sustainable that you know
some folks aren't quite familiarwith or don't really understand
, right?
I think, again, being a personof color, sometimes
sustainability is naturallyingrained into what we do as
(18:59):
part of our lives.
Like, for example, when I wasgrowing up, my parents, maybe
you know, always turn off thelights and never waste food, not
because of the environment,because they wanted to save
money, right.
So, like that perspective ofhow we choose to, kind of that
the environment is superimportant because it adds just
different values and differentlens of how we can engage people
.
But yeah, it's definitelyimportant to have everyone at
the table, regardless of wherethey come from.
Vai (19:22):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, your book, pollinator man.
You decided to write it as achildren's book, right?
Where do you think we can havemaximum impact when it comes to
getting more people to focus onsustainability issues?
Does it mean starting kidsyoung, and is that why the book?
Ashoke (19:43):
Well, actually, when I wrote the book, that wasn't
really what I was thinking aboutat the time.
The reason why I wrote it as achildren's book is, honestly, it
comes back to, you know,enjoying my life because I
wanted to, because I used towork with kids as a camp
counselor way back in the daywhen I was, like in high school,
and then after the pandemic, Iwas just, you know, stressed I
wanted something that would,that would be fun.
And, you know, bring me back toworking with kids.
(20:05):
Because I enjoyed thatgenuinely and that's kind of For
me.
I ended up turning into achildren's book with an after
you know, going into school anddoing readings to your point, I
realized that, you know, workingwith young kids is kind of
where you can have, I wouldn'tsay, the most impact, what's
definitely where kids are mostimpressionable and you can kind
of influence them the most.
(20:25):
Like, for example, like when Iwas camp counselor, when you're
not, when you're asking kid whatthey want to be when they grow
up, they say, you know, dr,engineer, lawyer, astronaut,
whatever, right the typicalanswers and like that's, and
there's nothing wrong with that.
But I think the issue is thatit's because we don't expose
them to other routes or othercareers.
Specifically, like you know, noone talks about, you know,
(20:46):
being a conservationist or beingenvironmentalist, right, I
think if you can get into thosespaces early enough and open
them to that opportunity or that, that possibility, then it's
something they consider right.
Like when I was growing up, noone ever came into my school and
, like you know, you should bean ecologist or whatnot, you
should save the planet, right,because it just wasn't a
priority, it wasn't a flashytitle, it wasn't, you know, it
(21:08):
wasn't a sexy job, which is, soto speak.
So, now that I can be in schooland kind of show people that
this is a cool job, it's a jobthat we need, right.
And I think that's kind ofwhere you can have an impact and
influencing kids like, okay,this is a viable approach for me
, it's something that you need.
And, again, this is the reasonwhy I made Polymer man a person
of color, so that young kids ofcolor could see that.
(21:30):
You know, this space isn'tspecifically reserved for white
people.
Right, there are.
You know, if you look like me,if you look like you know the
same color as Polymer man, youcan be like, oh, I can be that
too right, and I think that'sthe key in getting people
exposed to things early.
I think that this is the key isjust exposure.
Vai (21:48):
And then shed that inhibition about the masculinity
aspect not being cool withenvironmental advocacy, right.
Ashoke (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, like the way that I cameabout that specific part of the
mission is because I grew up inToronto or the suburbs of
Toronto, and so a lot of thepeople they're inner city kids
and so a lot of the people don'thave access to nature or
they're not really passionateabout nature, because a lot of
the community that I was kind ofbrought up in, you know, like
lower middle class orsocioeconomic status, so the
(22:17):
main concern was always, youknow, putting food on the table
and whatnot, right, so it wasnever let's go to our cottage on
the weekend, right, that's kindof a privilege reserved for
wealthier folks, and so there'salways that disconnect.
And then, even when I wasgrowing up at university, I
noticed that especially this isspecific to, like, conservation
and climate science, right, likea lot of it was female
(22:39):
dominated, and there's nothingwrong with that, I say, but like
it's not about taking away fromwomen, it's about how do we add
more men to the space and kindof?
You know, just make surethey're included, like you
mentioned earlier.
Like, for example, tech and asa like biology and chemistry.
You'll see the males there andyou'll see quite a few, you know
, being change makers andleaders, because that's
traditionally a more masculinediscipline, right?
(23:00):
Because tech is not directlyrelated to, you know, saving the
bees or the butterflies.
It's cool stuff like solarpanels, electric cars, but when
you talk about conservation,like saving pandas and stuff
like that, we think of that asmore feminine stuffs, like
things like showing compassionand conservation and chasing the
butterflies.
That's kind of how it'sperceived and so that's kind of
why there's that big disconnect.
(23:22):
I mean, it's like there'sstudies that show that men
refrain from participating likeego friendly activities, like
carrying a reasonable waterbottle or carrying a tote bag,
because it's perceived asfeminine.
And that's a whole societal orperception issue that managers
kind of afraid to put themselvesin that position because they
want to be perceived asmasculine.
(23:42):
So for me it's not about how wechange what it is to be
masculine is.
How do we expand what it meansto be masculine right, it's not
to take away anything from itit's how do we kind of show men
that you can be both you knowstrong, macho, confident, but
also you know, compassionate,sensitive and caring, like the
two things don't have to bemutually exclusive.
Vai (24:03):
Wonderful and the book is one of the bestsellers on Amazon
and you wrote it or publishedit in 2022, I believe, a show,
so it's going to be the one yearanniversaries coming up.
Once again, congratulations onthat.
And if you were to just quickly, in a nutshell, take our
younger audience through thebook, what would you tell them?
(24:25):
Say, it's like, I believe.
For me, when I just firstglanced at it, it's like, hey,
you know, there's a need topreserve pollinators, right?
So, via your main character,the superhero there, the mask
line symbol that you have usedto kind of indicate the
masculinity and eco-friendlyactivities, what would you tell
(24:47):
kids or the younger listeners ofthis podcast as to why they
should read that book?
Or parents of young kids forthem to, you know, just get that
book in front of their children.
Ashoke (24:59):
Yeah, for sure.
I think on the service level,like if you're interested in
pollinator conservation or anykind of wildlife, animal
conservation, I think it's agreat story there.
But if you know, if your kid orparent was just kind of looking
to teach your kids about issuesthat are larger than just
conservation, right, and justkind of not explicitly, but if
you want to get your kid engagedin advocacy or just like
(25:19):
getting them passionate aboutsomething, I think a polliner
man is a great way to kind ofshow people that advocacy or
changemaking doesn't have to bevery political or very you know
polarized thing.
It can just be a cool, funthing that kids engage in.
That's kind of where pollinerman comes in.
He shows people that caring iscool and that, you know, we
don't have to be as divided,right, because the thing I like
(25:41):
to say is like, who doesn't lovea superhero, right?
Everyone loves Spider-Man,everyone loves Batman, right?
So if you can show kids thatthey can be a hero in their own
right, right, whether that'ssaving the bees or whether
that's doing something else, itshows people that everyone's
capable of it and everyone'scapable of being in that journey
.
That's just kind of why I thinkyou know parents and kids
should kind of pick up the bookand at least glance at it,
(26:01):
because they can see themselvesin that story and kind of
understand that compassion andthese masculine traits and
advocacy traits don't have to bemutually exclusive.
You can have the best bothworlds, and actually I like to
tell people that, like ifanything, being compassionate
and being caring or beingsensitive makes you more
masculine, these are able tounderstand things, you're able
to help more people and at theend of the day, like you know,
(26:23):
everyone wants to be a hero intheir own story, right?
And so I think it's a great wayto get people engaged in not
only the environmental advocacybut just general, just caring
about the planet, caring aboutthe world and caring about
people.
Vai (26:33):
So nicely put Back in a moment with our guest on Fresh
Leaf Forever.
I was just going to say, yeah,I teach as kids not just
environmental advocacy, but alsotraits like compassion, empathy
(26:56):
, and you know when you need tobe sensitive to other people's
feeling, putting yourself inother people's shoes and still
in a fun way, with lots ofexamples and lots of
illustrations as well.
So from the very looks of it,definitely it's something that I
would recommend.
I now have a college goingchild, so she's no longer a
(27:17):
child.
She's an adult almost, but Iguess I would definitely
encourage every parent to putthis in front of their children.
How is our future a show goingto pan out?
Based on your currentinvolvement observation, you are
a top 25 under 25environmentalist in Canada.
You have won several honoursand awards.
(27:40):
You have represented Canada atthe United Nations.
You got yourself a seat at thetable.
Why don't you talk about yourhonours, awards, projects and
the need for citizens to act?
Now Say all the avenues forvolunteering, how they can be
part of the narrative and helpsimplify this complex word
(28:02):
sustainability.
I think it's a loaded question,but I guess for you it's not
loaded because it's somethingthat you have been involved
every single day.
Ashoke (28:14):
Yeah, I'll start from the beginning.
I guess.
Think when I started early onagain being a person of color
when there's not many peoplecolor in this space, I think
Again, when I started it was itwas kind of how to do everything
on my own.
So we're that many supportsystem.
Things have kind of changed nowbecause it's been some momentum
in his brain priority shifts.
But going through it when I wasyounger it's like you know,
(28:37):
who's this round and Brown goingBrown guy from Toronto trying
to, you know, get into theclimate space, getting into
these big tables and whatnot andkind of make a name for myself.
I think that's kind of reason.
When I first started, I wasn'ta big fan of, like, joining any
kind of specific groups inuniversity.
I feel like, again, there wasvery structured, very filtered,
very traditional way of thinking, and so when I, when I started
(29:00):
university, I actually started apodcast as well.
It's called I speak for thetrees and kind of.
That's kind of my our sloganwas kind of taking it's kind of
breaking down environmentalissues without any Political
filters or academic jargon,because again goes back to
communication, how we break downthese issues specifically.
And then from there, like Iused my communication skills to
leverage you know opportunitieswith the UN and whatnot, by
(29:20):
being able to learn how tocommunicate with different
parties.
I think from there, like whenit comes to you know, building a
name or getting honors foryourself, I think what was key
for me was just stayingauthentic to myself.
I think sometimes in this spaceyou want to try to be, you know
, the next credit to Timberg orDave Nattenborough or Dave David
Suzuki.
But I think what I realized isthat, like I had a market which
(29:43):
is, you know, young males fromToronto, or Males were too
masculine.
I really just embraced that asmy market and kind of understood
how I could have an impactthere, and that really helped me
to hone in on my mission andkind of really focus on a niche.
I think that's what allowed meto kind of Be recognized because
of one.
It was something that peopleweren't doing and I think that's
(30:05):
the key if you really want to.
You know, drive in this spaceis find something that you know
still irrelevant but like youknow, you're kind of almost
pioneering it.
And then you know, to beauthentic, don't try to be
someone you're not.
Try to, you know, use your ownlived experiences to make you a
stronger advocate.
And then three is I think again,like don't be afraid of
Uncontorable conversations.
And I think being able to workwith the UN and having to see
(30:27):
the table, you know I thoughtbeing at COP26 and COP24, like
that's like the pinnacle ofclimate conversations.
You're at the UN, you'retalking about climate change,
and then when I got there, youkind of realized it's a lot of
fluff, it's a lot of talk, right.
So, again, it's a great placeto be.
A lot of change happens there.
But for me I realized that's notthe space for me, because it's
(30:49):
not where I Thrive right Like itwas.
It was good for me toexperience that and to represent
youth voices in Canada andwhatnot.
But for me to have an effectiveimpact, based on what I know,
on the people I've worked with,I need to be in a space where I
don't have filters, so I don'thave restrictions, where I can
talk to people in a laid-backkind of way and you work in
these certain structures orinstitutions like the UN.
(31:10):
You have to say things in acertain way.
You can't say certain thingsand I think again, it's for
different people for it works.
But for me personally, Irealized that's not a space
where I see myself right.
But I think I like, I thinkbeing part of that experience
was helpful because let me learnmore about myself To say, like
where things are going and likethat Walmart example, I think
they're going a positive friend,because there's some momentum
(31:32):
and market trends and even youknow, when you look at you know
the stock market and all the,the access to capital and the
investments are going into thegreen space.
There's a lot of money to bemade in that space.
I think that's one of thereasons why, you know, it's
gained so much traction.
Not to be cynical, but I thinka lot of it comes down to, you
know, money, because money makesthe world go around.
But also let's not forget theintrinsic value that nature
(31:53):
brings right.
And that's the important isfinding that balance.
Especially In Canada, here, ina capitalistic society, how do
you find that balance of youknow the intrinsic value of
protecting nature.
But also, you know, let'sprovide people the livelihoods,
make people money and, you know,make sure they have a
comfortable life.
But I think the biggest thingis, like, whenever I go to
schools and I do readings, theyouth.
They're very positive, they'rereally engaged, they really know
(32:14):
what they're talking about.
I think that's that's reallygood to see, because they're all
optimistic and they have theyhave a vision and they're very
in tune with Social issues andthey're all very impact driven
and so that that gives me a lotof hope.
Vai (32:26):
Okay, in terms of someone to say hey, how do I get started
today?
In terms of whatever I can dofrom my side, what would you
suggest as a volunteering avenue?
Ashoke (32:36):
personally, I would like cold email, cold call people
like organizations that you'rejust genuinely interested in,
because I think sometimes if youwait Like a position to open up
, you're never gonna get thatchance.
I say, for example, you reallywant to work with WWF, right,
and they're probably very rarethat they're gonna post a
volunteer position.
But if you can network and justsend them an email, but hey,
(32:56):
it's, you know, just auniversity student looking to
volunteer, here's the value thatI can.
Yeah.
Vai (33:01):
Say, like an organization like WWF, where you know you're,
you're probably going to haveto call or email.
Ashoke (33:07):
Yeah, I think sometimes, like I think people have a
variety of different passions,right, I think, if you just kind
of sit there and wait and it'sgonna happen, so you have to
kind of go out and, you know,find opportunities or make
opportunities for yourself.
I like to say, like when you'reearly on, especially like when
you're just starting, andthere's a lot of people just
like, say yes to everything.
So yes to every opportunity,because that's the way you learn
, like what you like and whatyou don't like.
And I mean I realize this now.
(33:28):
But now, now, when you, as youget busier, you can't say yes to
everything.
But now, now you know whatworked for you, what you like
but you don't like, or you canhave impact, right, I think,
starting off, I think just kindof Don't, but every opportunity,
say yes to every opportunity,have as many conversations as
you can and then from there youkind of kind of by process of
elimination, you realize whatyou don't like and that's kind
of the key and in terms of Anyspecific projects that you are
(33:53):
involved in currently.
Vai (33:54):
Would you like to talk about any of that here?
Ashok?
Ashoke (33:57):
Yeah, so I'm actually working on another book.
Right now.
It's still very early in thewriting process, but it's a
surrounding Ocean conservationand I'm working with an
organization called Ocean Bridgeto bring that project to life.
So stay tuned for that.
But also I'm actually workingwith the production company in
Canada called on the vergeproductions, and so they're
(34:18):
producing a television seriescalled the Goldy blocks mission
and so it's almost a mini seemany television series like
eight to ten episodes and it'skind of a.
They're trying to kind of blendpop culture with climate
education.
So if you think like strangerthings mixed with the, the
knowledge of David Attenboroughis kind of a mix of that, and so
that's gonna be really cool.
(34:38):
We're pretty early.
We're still looking for fundingto complete production based in
Toronto and LA, and so we'regonna be looking for, you know,
youth to add their perspectivesto writing rooms and stuff like
that.
So I mean, if people keep intouch with me on LinkedIn and
whatnot, probably posting aboutthat later on when we look for
For youth, not only for forscript writing and youth
perspectives, but also I may docasting and whatnot.
Vai (35:00):
So wonderful and in terms of just for people to understand
the diversity of yourbackground.
You know from a student at theuniversity.
You know, like in Waterloo,like you have pretty much Walk
different paths right, Includingthe Royal Canadian police force
.
Is that right?
(35:21):
You know whatever work you'redoing for them.
Why don't you talk aboutwhatever different paths you
have taken, just so people knowthat they don't have to just
Follow yeah, and they can justlook around for opportunities
and that it just need not be astraight line approach?
Ashoke (35:38):
Yeah for sure.
That's a great question because, yeah, I think sometimes we,
you know, have this five-yearplan and we get stuck and I
gotta do this again.
But I found like the mostExciting and most rewarding
opportunities just happenspontaneously like even.
No, no, it's right in the bookand I didn't plan that at all, I
just kind of happened.
Close word when the pandemicget.
Like I mentioned earlier, when Ifirst started my climate
(36:00):
journey, I want to be an energy,then I want to be in water.
Now I'm kind of in theentertainment space.
I think the key is to just keepan open mind and I think like
again, like I mentioned earlier,say yes to everything and then,
once you try a bunch ofdifferent things, you kind of
open up your, your eyes and yourmind to kind of what's possible
, because you really you don'tknow what you don't know right,
(36:20):
unless you try it.
And so that's kind of the waythat I've been approaching
things recently Just to try awhole bunch of different things
and kind of see where thingsland or see where you know
Things connect.
Or there's intersections andUniversity, I wanted to really
focus on science, right, I wantto focus on the technical
biology, chemistry stuff.
Then I realized you know wasn'tvery good at that.
(36:42):
They're kind of working to thepolicy side and advocacy side.
Then kind of you know, realizeit's very political space, a lot
of polarization.
Then get now I'm here at theentertainment space and even
like my day job is verydifferent from what I do outside
of, like my advocacy work,right Like my day job.
I work for a police force, Ihelp them with environmental
compliance and that's veryscience heavy.
(37:03):
But I think it's cool to kindof just see the parallels
between different worlds.
And I think I think don't beafraid to generalize.
I think you like a jack of alltrades, I think it's.
Sometimes it's some peoplethink it's good to be
specialized or, you know, godown one path.
But I think it's good to haveBreath rather than depth.
You know you'd be no, no, alittle about a lot rather than a
(37:27):
lot about a little.
And then once you kind ofrealize which kind of discipline
or sector or an issue youthrive in, that's kind of where
you can kind of specialize anddive further in.
Well, when you're, when you'rejust starting, when you're early
on, I like I wouldn't advisespecializing, just because,
again, you don't know what youdon't know.
So just try a bunch ofdifferent things, say yes,
everything, and that's kind ofand don't be afraid to like jump
(37:48):
ship.
But if you like, for example,like with that podcast that I
started in university, I didn'trealize I didn't like it, I
wasn't very good at it, so it'slike I Quit it, I took it down,
right, and then I think it'simportant to realize that, like
you can start something and youcan fail and that's completely
okay, right?
I think if you can, you canmove on.
Sometimes we get, we get lost inthe, the sunk cost fallacy, you
know, when we think that we putin this amount of hours and put
(38:10):
them on this amount of dollarsinto this and like, okay, I
can't go back now because I'vealready invested it, but you
just end up continually losing.
But rather I think you shouldbe wrecked, like cognizant of
that.
Be able to pull out like thisisn't for me.
I'm gonna move on to the nextthing.
I think for me I've done thatquite a few times.
I've people don't realize thatI failed a lot of times, like
whether that's, you know,podcasts or social ventures, or
(38:33):
like failed energy companiesthat I've worked on, right, I
filled a lot and but that thathelps you succeed.
I think you know that teachesyou a lot of valuable lessons.
I think that's Important forfor youth starting out to
realize failure is a steppingstone to success.
Vai (38:48):
Pivot where necessary and then Explore all avenues
possible, just so you know youdon't just feel like a jack of
all trades and master of none,but I guess it's good for you to
have a feel of everything.
Those are all great takeawaysfrom this conversation, a show
for me and, I'm sure, for alllisteners, and you are doing
(39:09):
some wonderful work and we wishyou the very best in your
journey onward.
And if there's anything elsethat you would like to add, the
floor is yours.
Say, your contact info, anyother avenues that you would
like people to pursue along withyou, and More about your book
and everything else, your socialcontacts, whatever you may wish
(39:32):
to add here.
And if there's one thing youwould like to see listeners of
this podcast start doing interms of their Advocacy efforts
or their ability to change thenarrative on Sustainable living,
feel free to add.
Ashoke (39:48):
Yeah, thanks so much, I think like for contact info.
Wise, you guys can connect meon LinkedIn.
A show mohan Raj.
Vai (39:54):
Get a copy of.
Include that in the show notesas well and a link to your book
as well.
Ashoke (39:59):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it if you guys are personal
copy of Paul later man Also likeyou're interested in that.
In that show that I mentioned,we're also like we're looking
for investors.
So if you're a, 30 investorslistening.
The website is the goldilocksmission calm.
There's more info on the showthere and I think like one one
called action that would givepeople listening is it's a.
(40:22):
There's two that I would want tosay, and one is have
uncomfortable conversations.
Like you know, your friends, aclimate change denier or he
still use the plastic waterbottles.
Sure, it's uncomfortable havingthat conversation.
What's the conversation thatneeds to happen?
So you know, whether it's inyour circle, outside your circle
, don't be afraid of thoseconversations.
And then two, I think you knowjust don't be afraid of being a
(40:44):
trend center, trend trendsetteror doing your own thing, or, or,
or, or.
Like you know, for example, ifmy, your friends, use a tote bag
or reasonable water bottle,don't be afraid to be the first.
Don't.
Don't care.
They don't have opinions aboutwhat other people think of you,
right?
Because I think at the end ofthe day, regardless of what you
do or don't do, people gonnajudge you, so you might as well
just do what you feel is rightand what makes you happy, right.
(41:06):
So I think you know, just kindof use, take that as as it is
and kind of you know, understandthat there there are things
that need to be done, both forthe planet and for yourself.
I think if you do that with theright intentions, that's all
that matters at the end of theday.
And I think the biggest thingis you don't have to be perfect.
As long as you're trying,that's all that matters.
Vai (41:24):
Yeah, just be mindful of what you're doing and then
contribute your part to overallwell-being.
And, like you said, there areseveral aspects to Sustainable
living and we just definitelywalked everyone through all of
that and including well-being,including health, including
mental health.
Everything is, like you know,interconnected right.
(41:46):
So everything stems from, say,plastic is not supposedly good
for health, so Even for physicalhealth.
So everything right from andonly when we see that Mother
nature gives us what we can forus to be happy not, like you
know, unwanted floods, not likeunwanted earthquakes, not, like
(42:10):
you know, like oceanconservation is a big thing that
we all need to focus on.
So, I guess, everything, we allneed to do our part and you
brought it out very nicely there.
Thank you so much and good luckwith your next book, good luck
with your media efforts, keep usposted and definitely look
forward to connecting back withyou again in the future.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Ashoke (42:31):
I show yeah, thanks so much for having me and hope you
guys enjoyed great listeners, asalways.
Vai (42:37):
Follow the podcast, rate the podcast and leave a review
from your podcast app of choice,and and follow me on Instagram
@vaipkumar, for all things,digital media and real world.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me, Vai saying so long.
Welcome to Freshleaf Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, vaikumar.
Hey folks, welcome to anotherepisode on Podcast Freshleaf
Forever.
Today I have here with usAshoke Mohanraj.
He is a sustainability advocate, book author and he has done so
(00:32):
much more.
I think it's about time we letAshoke speak.
So, hey, ashok, welcome to theshow.
How are you today?
Ashoke (00:40):
Hey Vai, thanks for having me Really excited to be
on the show and just talk aboutmy work.
But yeah, happy to be here.
Vai (00:45):
I think there are major issues the world is facing today
as it relates to sustainabilityright and if we were to look at
the different categories, ashok, based on all the work that you
have been doing, looks likeit's not just climate, as has
been perceived by many right.
So why don't we start with thatand have you guide us through
(01:08):
your journey and what you thinkon that front?
Ashoke (01:12):
Yeah, for sure.
I guess that's a big questionto start with.
And so I've been in this spacefor about, I would say, like
maybe seven years now, Kind of.
When I first started, I mean,the whole reason that I got into
this space was actually like Iwas interested in solving the
energy crisis.
You know, I thought I would bestudying physics, studying solar
panels and trying to be likethe next Elon Musk.
But as I kind of went on thatjourney, I realized that, you
(01:34):
know, solving the climate crisisis more than a matter of pure
science.
There's so much more differentintricacies from a social and
economic perspective.
And that's kind of what gagedmy interest really early on,
because I kind of shift myframework to how the systems
interact rather than how to,like.
You know, instead of working insilos, how do all these things
interconnect?
(01:54):
And the first thing that youlearn in an ecology class is
everything is interconnected.
And that kind of resonated withme, because you can't solve one
thing without solving a bunchof different other things that
are connected.
I mean, based on what I've seenso far throughout my journey,
like there are a variety ofissues from a solutions based
perspective, the biggestchallenge that I see is just.
I mean, it's better in Canada.
(02:15):
This is true like polarizationamong people.
People tend to have reallystrong feelings either for it or
against it.
I think that's a huge barrier,because I think people often
believe that this, this issue,is black and white.
You're either on one side orthe other side.
But I think what people don'trealize that most of what
climate change is is the inbetween the state gray area,
(02:35):
because it affects everyone, andthat middle area gets lost in
translation.
I think that's the biggestchallenge that we face is kind
of getting people to realizethat as long as you're doing
what you can?
that's kind of the key, the keyto the solution.
Vai (02:47):
Okay, what about the triggering aspect?
For you, as I see it, it's likedifferent pieces to this puzzle
right solving and being able to, I guess, in terms of focusing
on sustainability for the planetas such, if you were to nail
down on a triggering aspect thatled you to just think and say,
(03:08):
hey, I have to do more, and thenI have to make people do more,
what would you say?
That would be a shock.
Ashoke (03:15):
Yeah, that's a good question and, like, personally,
like I don't know if I can comeup with a single moment, but
there there's a couple thingsthat I can think of from the top
of my head and one it justcomes back to like where I'm
from.
My parents are from Sri Lanka.
Early on in my career I learnedthat you know, sri Lanka is one
of the most vulnerable nationsto rising sea levels.
Specifically, there's alwaysthis thought in the back of my
mind that preventing climatechange and adaptation to rising
(03:36):
sea levels is super important tome, because a lot of people
from Sri Lanka and other coastalareas are going to be displaced
and you know they'll becomeclimate refugees and whatnot,
and so, at the back of my mind,that's always super important to
me.
Like you know, I have aresponsibility to look down for
my planet, not just because thephysical element, because you
know when people get displacedand get lost, you know you not
only lose, you know people useheritage, you lose cultures, you
(03:58):
lose language, and for methat's important to me, as do
eventually, you know, hopefullybecome a father one day.
You know that's an importantthing that I keep in mind at the
back of my head every day.
But then the other thing isagain it goes back to everything
is interconnected, right?
I think I realized that from ayoung age, right kind of three
different kinds of issues in theworld there's environmental
issues, there's social issuesand economic issues.
None of it matters unless youhave clean air and clean water
(04:20):
to consume, right?
So at the very foundation ofour societies, of our economies,
you need to have cleancommodities, clean resources,
and that's kind of why you knowI figured you know what's the
best way to solve.
Most of the problems areworking to have the most impact,
or what's the most fundamentalproblem to solve.
And that's kind of where I kindof landed.
On pursuing environment orclimate studies.
I like to say, like you know,rosa Parks would have sat on the
(04:42):
front of the bus for nothing ifshe didn't have clean water,
right.
So you know all those civilrights issues and whatnot.
Economic issues, they comeafter providing basic human
rights, basic sustenance inorder to survive, and that comes
from protecting our planet.
Vai (04:55):
Aha, that's wonderful.
It's really cool that you havefocused on the environmental
side and you have written insome of your pieces that you
probably were very differentfrom that standpoint and even
people interested in it withdidn't think it was cool, right?
How do you think we can makepeople focus on these and how
(05:15):
can we bring attention to theseaspects?
Are shook meaning gettingpeople more involved and say
willingness to be part of thisconversation?
Ashoke (05:25):
Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest challenges, and
I think you just mentioned it.
Like my kind of goal or missionis how do we make caring cool
right?
And that's kind of how Iapproach it, because a lot of my
audience are the people that Iwork with, our young boys or men
, and that's kind of I foundthat's kind of the key to kind
of engage in them.
It's all about getting goingback to communication your ideas
only as good as you cancommunicate it.
(05:46):
So how do you?
How do you communicate in a waythat makes things appealing?
And so for me, for my audiencespecifically, it's how do you
show people that that caring iscool?
And so the way that I do thatis you know different mediums
right.
Like if you go out to a personand say plastic pollution is bad
because of A, b and C yes, asvalid points, it's logical
reasoning, at the same time likeyou're not engaging with their
(06:08):
emotions and at the same timelike emotions are the most, most
powerful motivator, right.
So that's I feel like that'skind of how you kind of get
people to engage and that's kindof why, as of late, I've been
trying to use entertainment as amedium, so whether that's books
or television kind of showpeople, you know not only
visually but like emotionally,how these stories can can affect
us, right, and that's kind of abig motivational factor.
(06:28):
But I think, like, if we boil itdown to a step one, I think it
goes back to how we choose toframe these issues right, like,
again, pollution, like we cansay pollution is an
environmental issue or climatechange is an environmental issue
, we have to say that it's allan all-encompassing issue
because when water is pollutedit's not only affecting, you
know, the fish species andmarine wildlife, affects your
(06:49):
drinking water quality, affectsyour recreation ability to go to
a water skiing or whatnot,right, so it affects all those
different things.
I think if we frame in a waythat shows people that these
things aren't environmentalissues but they're issues that
affect us in our daily life,that's kind of the key.
I'd say, like the first step iskind of just breaking it down,
so it's so we change whatsomething means that when it's
(07:10):
an environmental issue, becausethe environment is so broad and
all-encompassing, Very well said.
Vai (07:16):
I think right there you pointed an example say, people
doing water sports, you know,going skiing.
If the conversation highlightswhatever impacts us on a
day-to-day basis, I think itmakes more sense right.
So, from an everyday standpoint, I show, say, recycling
practices to doing everythingthat's going on.
(07:36):
How could we ascertain asustainable future and how can
we get more folks to engage?
I know that's your number onegoal getting more folks to
engage, right Even amongst ournear circle, right on a daily
basis.
I'm sure you would have noticed, and I noticed, there's more to
be done, even when it comes tobasic recycling practices.
(08:00):
Act once home, right the firststep.
Leave alone public places.
How could we just get better onthat front?
Ashoke (08:08):
Yeah, that's a tough one and I think that always comes
down to like uncomfortableconversations, even with your
friends, like, if your frienddoesn't, you know, recycle or
whatnot, it's always hard tocall them out and whatnot for
that specifically.
Again, it really depends on theperson, right?
But I think here's how whatyou're doing is directly
impacting in a good and bad way.
Like, say, for example, likeyour friend, your roommate,
right, because I had this inuniversity, my friend would
(08:30):
always use plastic water bottlesand I would hate it and I would
tell him you know, we have atowel, bring your reusable water
bottles to save water, right,and then I would sometimes I
would call amount on thenegative impact that he was
having.
Look at all those plasticyou're wasting.
But also, buddy, if you, if youswitch that narrative to like,
if you do use reusable waterbottle, here's the positive
impact you can have.
And I think sometimes that canbe an even more powerful
(08:50):
motivator, right, if you can seethe positive change that
they're actually contributing to.
Like one example.
Again back to that example like, once he started using a
reusable water bottle, Icalculated how many plastic
water bottles he saved, you know, just for the sake of you know,
showing him that he made theright decision, and it wasn't
like a life changing decision oranything, but it showed him
that, you know, an individualimpact can have a significant
(09:12):
difference.
And I think if you can do that,you know to you know three to
five people in your circle andthey can do it to another three
to five people in their circleyou'd have a you know, a ripple
of change.
But yeah, I think staying,staying engaged is is hard
because, you know, sometimespeople lose the motivation.
Sometimes it's all aboutdiscipline, but I think it's
such momentum too right, likewhen you, when you see one thing
(09:34):
having a positive impact,you're more likely to move on to
another thing.
So, like when you startrecycling plastic water bottle,
you start moving on tocomposting.
Then you start looking into,you know, how you can make
smarter consumer decisions, howyou buy more ethical products.
I think it just becomesnaturally part of your, your
lifestyle.
I think also, just um, just likemarket trends are are a big
thing, and that I think that'snot something we can control on
(09:56):
an individual level.
But like even, for example,that's at walmart the other day,
and like it's good to see that.
Like nowadays, everyone therehas to have a reusable shopping
bag.
Right, it's no longer an optionto get a plastic bag at the
store, and that that took, youknow, decades of work.
But now we reach that pointbecause there's momentum for
that movement to reduce plastic.
(10:16):
That now is, you know, it'singrained in our society.
You know, if you don't come tothe store with the reusable bag,
you can't buy a plastic bag.
You gotta carry your groceriesin your hand.
That's kind of uh.
So it's a big win and it showspeople how, how momentum can
play a huge role.
It does.
It does take time, granted, butlike, it does show that, like,
keep following through withindividual actions and it will
lead to societal change.
(10:37):
At one point, or at least youcan hope, it will lead to
societal change fantastic.
Vai (10:41):
I think you said it beautifully there.
Even when you pointed to yourroommate about the number, the
bottom line impact that it washaving, say, even if he didn't
change right away, probably it,it just resonated with him in
terms of the number and theginormous impact that he could
have in this planet.
Right, so very well done thereand very beautifully said again
(11:05):
about, yeah, the shoppingexperience at Walmart.
No matter how rushed we are, wetry to do our best in my family
in terms of bringing our ownbags to the grocery store.
So, yeah, some days, yes, weare in a rush, we tend to forget
, but at the very least, ask forpaper bags at the store, not
(11:26):
the plastic.
Right again, looking atsustainability as a bigger piece
of puzzle, like you pointed out, it's not just flora, fauna and
the environment, right?
What other things do you see weneed to address?
Is it gender inequality?
Improving education, then again, some of my other guests on
(11:46):
this very show have focusedquite a bit on gender inequality
, how girls, educating girls,empowering girls, is all
important.
But, on the same token, I thinkyou, with your book pollinator
man, you have brought out thatit's still cool for men or young
(12:07):
boys to be involved in this andnot see environment as an issue
.
That's not masculine right.
So how would you take thisforward?
First, let's just what are theissues you see are being
hindrances to us, as citizens ofthis universe, being successful
in the sustainabilityinitiative?
Ashoke (12:28):
yeah, that's a super important question, the one that
resonates with me a lot,because I think, yeah, like I
mentioned earlier, one of thebiggest challenges that you know
people think that there arethese different silos and like
everything is separated.
The puzzle of sustainabilityincorporates a lot of different
pieces gender equity, education,health, literacy, that kind of
stuff.
And I think, like for me, yeah,the things that I focus on for,
(12:49):
for example, just education,engagement, communication stuff
like that, how that fits intoteaching people about
sustainability, talk about youknow, individual pieces I would
say like three biggest ones arenot not just a technical
education of you know climatescience, biology, chemistry and
all that stuff, but how we teachpeople to navigate complex
(13:10):
issues right, and kind of how weteach issues right, because
today climate isn't isn't partof like mainstream curriculums,
right, and I think having thatwould be would be huge and
getting you know kids engagednot just kids but, like you know
, university students, collegestudents and that and that their
young adult career to kind oflearn about these specific kinds
of issues and how they interactwith different disciplines.
(13:31):
I think another piece of thepuzzle is climate justice or
equity right.
When we talk about providingsolutions, we have to make sure
these solutions that are, thatare just and equitable for
different kinds of communitiesand how they affect different
kinds of communities, because,as we know, you know, no
solution is the same.
There's no one band-aidsolution that fits.
Also, ensuring that it's allit's all kind of takes into a
(13:52):
lot of different socioeconomicfactors and whatnot.
I think the third piece of thatsustainability puzzle is, you
know, understanding thatindividuals' freedoms and
desires are important to beconsidered as well.
Right, because as much as wewant to save the planet, you
know we're people first, we'readvocates second.
I like to say that because, atthe end of the day, like you
(14:15):
probably attest this, so youwant to enjoy your day.
At the end of the day, right,you want to be able to, you know
, have a filling life, have ahappy family, you know, enjoy
your hobbies and whatnot.
And so I think, while savingthe planet is important and it's
a very noble cause and forthose people who are, you know,
sacrificing everything to do it,most people, 90% of the people
who you know, who are engaged inthis space, are everyday,
(14:36):
normal people who still want tohave a filling life.
And so sometimes I wouldn't sayit gets in the way, but
sometimes we should prioritizeourselves and I think that's
okay, right to realize.
Like you know, sometimes if youwant to have that fried chicken
from KFC once in a while, it'sfine, and I think it's realizing
that.
You know, again, going back toit does not be black and white.
As long as you do what you canwhile still being able to feel
(14:58):
like you know you're doing goodfor the planet and you're still
enjoying your life because whenpeople become miserable they get
ego anxiety.
It's hard to sustain themomentum, but like when you have
the balance and when you'reable to, you know,
compartmentalize the differentparts of your life and still
kind of still be an advocatewhile still enjoying your life.
I think that's key.
Vai (15:18):
Well, you actually brought out something even earlier, just
helping them see the positiveside of it.
Just like you, gave your friendthe impactful numbers and told
him that this is how much you'regoing to help.
I think lending a positivetwist to it is definitely going
to help more people get engagedand still, at the end of the day
(15:41):
, even doing this project can bea fun part of their lives,
right Like a beach cleanup orwhatever that may be.
You know, do it as a groupactivity and still that could be
a Saturday fun day project,right From a diversity,
inclusivity and involvementstandpoint.
How do we make sure that we geteveryone a seat at the table in
(16:02):
terms of climate conversations,or not just climate, but in
helping see all the pieces thatconstitute a sustainable future
for this planet?
Ashok.
Ashoke (16:12):
Yeah, I think that's the key is bringing everyone to the
table right, because no matterwhether it's climate change or
mental health or economics, thekey in every solving every issue
is having diverse perspectivesand diverse attitudes and lived
experiences.
I think for that you have tohave an open mind.
Whoever is in charge of youknow these discussions has to
(16:33):
make sure that you're not onlyreinforcing your own beliefs but
are also being challenged tooutside beliefs.
I think we often fall into thistrap, especially in the climate
space or advocacy space that,like you know, we need, like we
only need to be in our ownlittle circles of advocacy work
and kind of just kind of talk tothose same people.
And I've been in roomspersonally where you know, you
(16:54):
know for book launches and youknow just events about climate
change, where people have likeliterally vilified, or they're
kind of toxic, or their opinionsdon't matter or they're not
valid or they're completelywrong.
And even though sometimes itmay be the case, even though if
you believe someone's opinion iswrong, I think it's wrong to
exclude them from theconversation entirely.
Like we still need to bringthose parties to the table right
(17:16):
, because when you automaticallyvilify a whole group of people
or a whole side of politicalspectrum.
They're not inclined to workwith you.
They don't want to work withyou, they don't want to listen
to your ideas, right?
I think that just raises morerift and more problems.
But at least being open to thatidea and having healthy debate
and uncomfortable conversationsis part of that process.
(17:36):
It's part of that journey andthen it's bound to happen.
In this space, most of theconversations that I have are
uncomfortable conversations.
That's just the nature of thiswork, right?
Because, again, because it'ssuch a polarized issue, you need
to have to be okay with thatrather than being like you know,
I don't want to have anuncomfortable conversation.
Therefore, I'm going to leavethese people out of the room,
(17:56):
because that's not the way yousolve the problem, like if you.
Because, again, if you solve itwithout considering how it
affects different people'slivelihoods and their lifestyle
and whatnot, it's not a justsolution, it's not an equitable
solution that can be sustainedfor a long time.
And that's kind of why I thinkit's important to bring
diversity to the table, not onlyfrom you know political beliefs
(18:17):
, but you know lived experiences, ethnic backgrounds, cultures,
languages, all that.
All that stuff.
Traditionally, we've been likeit's in the environment space.
It's led by Caucasian leadersand white people who have very
colonial centric viewpoints andkind of understandings of how
the world works.
Right.
I think by incorporating, youknow, in people of color, which
(18:38):
is something I've seen as adefinitely lacking, especially
in North America or in Canada,by having those diverse
perspectives, you challenge kindof what it means to be
sustainable or different ideasare sustainable that you know
some folks aren't quite familiarwith or don't really understand
, right?
I think, again, being a personof color, sometimes
sustainability is naturallyingrained into what we do as
(18:59):
part of our lives.
Like, for example, when I wasgrowing up, my parents, maybe
you know, always turn off thelights and never waste food, not
because of the environment,because they wanted to save
money, right.
So, like that perspective ofhow we choose to, kind of that
the environment is superimportant because it adds just
different values and differentlens of how we can engage people
.
But yeah, it's definitelyimportant to have everyone at
the table, regardless of wherethey come from.
Vai (19:22):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, your book, pollinator man.
You decided to write it as achildren's book, right?
Where do you think we can havemaximum impact when it comes to
getting more people to focus onsustainability issues?
Does it mean starting kidsyoung, and is that why the book?
Ashoke (19:43):
Well, actually, when I wrote the book, that wasn't
really what I was thinking aboutat the time.
The reason why I wrote it as achildren's book is, honestly, it
comes back to, you know,enjoying my life because I
wanted to, because I used towork with kids as a camp
counselor way back in the daywhen I was, like in high school,
and then after the pandemic, Iwas just, you know, stressed I
wanted something that would,that would be fun.
And, you know, bring me back toworking with kids.
(20:05):
Because I enjoyed thatgenuinely and that's kind of For
me.
I ended up turning into achildren's book with an after
you know, going into school anddoing readings to your point, I
realized that, you know, workingwith young kids is kind of
where you can have, I wouldn'tsay, the most impact, what's
definitely where kids are mostimpressionable and you can kind
of influence them the most.
(20:25):
Like, for example, like when Iwas camp counselor, when you're
not, when you're asking kid whatthey want to be when they grow
up, they say, you know, dr,engineer, lawyer, astronaut,
whatever, right the typicalanswers and like that's, and
there's nothing wrong with that.
But I think the issue is thatit's because we don't expose
them to other routes or othercareers.
Specifically, like you know, noone talks about, you know,
(20:46):
being a conservationist or beingenvironmentalist, right, I
think if you can get into thosespaces early enough and open
them to that opportunity or that, that possibility, then it's
something they consider right.
Like when I was growing up, noone ever came into my school and
, like you know, you should bean ecologist or whatnot, you
should save the planet, right,because it just wasn't a
priority, it wasn't a flashytitle, it wasn't, you know, it
(21:08):
wasn't a sexy job, which is, soto speak.
So, now that I can be in schooland kind of show people that
this is a cool job, it's a jobthat we need, right.
And I think that's kind ofwhere you can have an impact and
influencing kids like, okay,this is a viable approach for me
, it's something that you need.
And, again, this is the reasonwhy I made Polymer man a person
of color, so that young kids ofcolor could see that.
(21:30):
You know, this space isn'tspecifically reserved for white
people.
Right, there are.
You know, if you look like me,if you look like you know the
same color as Polymer man, youcan be like, oh, I can be that
too right, and I think that'sthe key in getting people
exposed to things early.
I think that this is the key isjust exposure.
Vai (21:48):
And then shed that inhibition about the masculinity
aspect not being cool withenvironmental advocacy, right.
Ashoke (21:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, like the way that I cameabout that specific part of the
mission is because I grew up inToronto or the suburbs of
Toronto, and so a lot of thepeople they're inner city kids
and so a lot of the people don'thave access to nature or
they're not really passionateabout nature, because a lot of
the community that I was kind ofbrought up in, you know, like
lower middle class orsocioeconomic status, so the
(22:17):
main concern was always, youknow, putting food on the table
and whatnot, right, so it wasnever let's go to our cottage on
the weekend, right, that's kindof a privilege reserved for
wealthier folks, and so there'salways that disconnect.
And then, even when I wasgrowing up at university, I
noticed that especially this isspecific to, like, conservation
and climate science, right, likea lot of it was female
(22:39):
dominated, and there's nothingwrong with that, I say, but like
it's not about taking away fromwomen, it's about how do we add
more men to the space and kindof?
You know, just make surethey're included, like you
mentioned earlier.
Like, for example, tech and asa like biology and chemistry.
You'll see the males there andyou'll see quite a few, you know
, being change makers andleaders, because that's
traditionally a more masculinediscipline, right?
(23:00):
Because tech is not directlyrelated to, you know, saving the
bees or the butterflies.
It's cool stuff like solarpanels, electric cars, but when
you talk about conservation,like saving pandas and stuff
like that, we think of that asmore feminine stuffs, like
things like showing compassionand conservation and chasing the
butterflies.
That's kind of how it'sperceived and so that's kind of
why there's that big disconnect.
(23:22):
I mean, it's like there'sstudies that show that men
refrain from participating likeego friendly activities, like
carrying a reasonable waterbottle or carrying a tote bag,
because it's perceived asfeminine.
And that's a whole societal orperception issue that managers
kind of afraid to put themselvesin that position because they
want to be perceived asmasculine.
(23:42):
So for me it's not about how wechange what it is to be
masculine is.
How do we expand what it meansto be masculine right, it's not
to take away anything from itit's how do we kind of show men
that you can be both you knowstrong, macho, confident, but
also you know, compassionate,sensitive and caring, like the
two things don't have to bemutually exclusive.
Vai (24:03):
Wonderful and the book is one of the bestsellers on Amazon
and you wrote it or publishedit in 2022, I believe, a show,
so it's going to be the one yearanniversaries coming up.
Once again, congratulations onthat.
And if you were to just quickly, in a nutshell, take our
younger audience through thebook, what would you tell them?
(24:25):
Say, it's like, I believe.
For me, when I just firstglanced at it, it's like, hey,
you know, there's a need topreserve pollinators, right?
So, via your main character,the superhero there, the mask
line symbol that you have usedto kind of indicate the
masculinity and eco-friendlyactivities, what would you tell
(24:47):
kids or the younger listeners ofthis podcast as to why they
should read that book?
Or parents of young kids forthem to, you know, just get that
book in front of their children.
Ashoke (24:59):
Yeah, for sure.
I think on the service level,like if you're interested in
pollinator conservation or anykind of wildlife, animal
conservation, I think it's agreat story there.
But if you know, if your kid orparent was just kind of looking
to teach your kids about issuesthat are larger than just
conservation, right, and justkind of not explicitly, but if
you want to get your kid engagedin advocacy or just like
(25:19):
getting them passionate aboutsomething, I think a polliner
man is a great way to kind ofshow people that advocacy or
changemaking doesn't have to bevery political or very you know
polarized thing.
It can just be a cool, funthing that kids engage in.
That's kind of where pollinerman comes in.
He shows people that caring iscool and that, you know, we
don't have to be as divided,right, because the thing I like
(25:41):
to say is like, who doesn't lovea superhero, right?
Everyone loves Spider-Man,everyone loves Batman, right?
So if you can show kids thatthey can be a hero in their own
right, right, whether that'ssaving the bees or whether
that's doing something else, itshows people that everyone's
capable of it and everyone'scapable of being in that journey
.
That's just kind of why I thinkyou know parents and kids
should kind of pick up the bookand at least glance at it,
(26:01):
because they can see themselvesin that story and kind of
understand that compassion andthese masculine traits and
advocacy traits don't have to bemutually exclusive.
You can have the best bothworlds, and actually I like to
tell people that, like ifanything, being compassionate
and being caring or beingsensitive makes you more
masculine, these are able tounderstand things, you're able
to help more people and at theend of the day, like you know,
(26:23):
everyone wants to be a hero intheir own story, right?
And so I think it's a great wayto get people engaged in not
only the environmental advocacybut just general, just caring
about the planet, caring aboutthe world and caring about
people.
Vai (26:33):
So nicely put Back in a moment with our guest on Fresh
Leaf Forever.
I was just going to say, yeah,I teach as kids not just
environmental advocacy, but alsotraits like compassion, empathy
(26:56):
, and you know when you need tobe sensitive to other people's
feeling, putting yourself inother people's shoes and still
in a fun way, with lots ofexamples and lots of
illustrations as well.
So from the very looks of it,definitely it's something that I
would recommend.
I now have a college goingchild, so she's no longer a
(27:17):
child.
She's an adult almost, but Iguess I would definitely
encourage every parent to putthis in front of their children.
How is our future a show goingto pan out?
Based on your currentinvolvement observation, you are
a top 25 under 25environmentalist in Canada.
You have won several honoursand awards.
(27:40):
You have represented Canada atthe United Nations.
You got yourself a seat at thetable.
Why don't you talk about yourhonours, awards, projects and
the need for citizens to act?
Now Say all the avenues forvolunteering, how they can be
part of the narrative and helpsimplify this complex word
(28:02):
sustainability.
I think it's a loaded question,but I guess for you it's not
loaded because it's somethingthat you have been involved
every single day.
Ashoke (28:14):
Yeah, I'll start from the beginning.
I guess.
Think when I started early onagain being a person of color
when there's not many peoplecolor in this space, I think
Again, when I started it was itwas kind of how to do everything
on my own.
So we're that many supportsystem.
Things have kind of changed nowbecause it's been some momentum
in his brain priority shifts.
But going through it when I wasyounger it's like you know,
(28:37):
who's this round and Brown goingBrown guy from Toronto trying
to, you know, get into theclimate space, getting into
these big tables and whatnot andkind of make a name for myself.
I think that's kind of reason.
When I first started, I wasn'ta big fan of, like, joining any
kind of specific groups inuniversity.
I feel like, again, there wasvery structured, very filtered,
very traditional way of thinking, and so when I, when I started
(29:00):
university, I actually started apodcast as well.
It's called I speak for thetrees and kind of.
That's kind of my our sloganwas kind of taking it's kind of
breaking down environmentalissues without any Political
filters or academic jargon,because again goes back to
communication, how we break downthese issues specifically.
And then from there, like Iused my communication skills to
leverage you know opportunitieswith the UN and whatnot, by
(29:20):
being able to learn how tocommunicate with different
parties.
I think from there, like whenit comes to you know, building a
name or getting honors foryourself, I think what was key
for me was just stayingauthentic to myself.
I think sometimes in this spaceyou want to try to be, you know
, the next credit to Timberg orDave Nattenborough or Dave David
Suzuki.
But I think what I realized isthat, like I had a market which
(29:43):
is, you know, young males fromToronto, or Males were too
masculine.
I really just embraced that asmy market and kind of understood
how I could have an impactthere, and that really helped me
to hone in on my mission andkind of really focus on a niche.
I think that's what allowed meto kind of Be recognized because
of one.
It was something that peopleweren't doing and I think that's
(30:05):
the key if you really want to.
You know, drive in this spaceis find something that you know
still irrelevant but like youknow, you're kind of almost
pioneering it.
And then you know, to beauthentic, don't try to be
someone you're not.
Try to, you know, use your ownlived experiences to make you a
stronger advocate.
And then three is I think again,like don't be afraid of
Uncontorable conversations.
And I think being able to workwith the UN and having to see
(30:27):
the table, you know I thoughtbeing at COP26 and COP24, like
that's like the pinnacle ofclimate conversations.
You're at the UN, you'retalking about climate change,
and then when I got there, youkind of realized it's a lot of
fluff, it's a lot of talk, right.
So, again, it's a great placeto be.
A lot of change happens there.
But for me I realized that's notthe space for me, because it's
(30:49):
not where I Thrive right Like itwas.
It was good for me toexperience that and to represent
youth voices in Canada andwhatnot.
But for me to have an effectiveimpact, based on what I know,
on the people I've worked with,I need to be in a space where I
don't have filters, so I don'thave restrictions, where I can
talk to people in a laid-backkind of way and you work in
these certain structures orinstitutions like the UN.
(31:10):
You have to say things in acertain way.
You can't say certain thingsand I think again, it's for
different people for it works.
But for me personally, Irealized that's not a space
where I see myself right.
But I think I like, I thinkbeing part of that experience
was helpful because let me learnmore about myself To say, like
where things are going and likethat Walmart example, I think
they're going a positive friend,because there's some momentum
(31:32):
and market trends and even youknow, when you look at you know
the stock market and all the,the access to capital and the
investments are going into thegreen space.
There's a lot of money to bemade in that space.
I think that's one of thereasons why, you know, it's
gained so much traction.
Not to be cynical, but I thinka lot of it comes down to, you
know, money, because money makesthe world go around.
But also let's not forget theintrinsic value that nature
(31:53):
brings right.
And that's the important isfinding that balance.
Especially In Canada, here, ina capitalistic society, how do
you find that balance of youknow the intrinsic value of
protecting nature.
But also, you know, let'sprovide people the livelihoods,
make people money and, you know,make sure they have a
comfortable life.
But I think the biggest thingis, like, whenever I go to
schools and I do readings, theyouth.
They're very positive, they'rereally engaged, they really know
(32:14):
what they're talking about.
I think that's that's reallygood to see, because they're all
optimistic and they have theyhave a vision and they're very
in tune with Social issues andthey're all very impact driven
and so that that gives me a lotof hope.
Vai (32:26):
Okay, in terms of someone to say hey, how do I get started
today?
In terms of whatever I can dofrom my side, what would you
suggest as a volunteering avenue?
Ashoke (32:36):
personally, I would like cold email, cold call people
like organizations that you'rejust genuinely interested in,
because I think sometimes if youwait Like a position to open up
, you're never gonna get thatchance.
I say, for example, you reallywant to work with WWF, right,
and they're probably very rarethat they're gonna post a
volunteer position.
But if you can network and justsend them an email, but hey,
(32:56):
it's, you know, just auniversity student looking to
volunteer, here's the value thatI can.
Yeah.
Vai (33:01):
Say, like an organization like WWF, where you know you're,
you're probably going to haveto call or email.
Ashoke (33:07):
Yeah, I think sometimes, like I think people have a
variety of different passions,right, I think, if you just kind
of sit there and wait and it'sgonna happen, so you have to
kind of go out and, you know,find opportunities or make
opportunities for yourself.
I like to say, like when you'reearly on, especially like when
you're just starting, andthere's a lot of people just
like, say yes to everything.
So yes to every opportunity,because that's the way you learn
, like what you like and whatyou don't like.
And I mean I realize this now.
(33:28):
But now, now, when you, as youget busier, you can't say yes to
everything.
But now, now you know whatworked for you, what you like
but you don't like, or you canhave impact, right, I think,
starting off, I think just kindof Don't, but every opportunity,
say yes to every opportunity,have as many conversations as
you can and then from there youkind of kind of by process of
elimination, you realize whatyou don't like and that's kind
of the key and in terms of Anyspecific projects that you are
(33:53):
involved in currently.
Vai (33:54):
Would you like to talk about any of that here?
Ashok?
Ashoke (33:57):
Yeah, so I'm actually working on another book.
Right now.
It's still very early in thewriting process, but it's a
surrounding Ocean conservationand I'm working with an
organization called Ocean Bridgeto bring that project to life.
So stay tuned for that.
But also I'm actually workingwith the production company in
Canada called on the vergeproductions, and so they're
(34:18):
producing a television seriescalled the Goldy blocks mission
and so it's almost a mini seemany television series like
eight to ten episodes and it'skind of a.
They're trying to kind of blendpop culture with climate
education.
So if you think like strangerthings mixed with the, the
knowledge of David Attenboroughis kind of a mix of that, and so
that's gonna be really cool.
(34:38):
We're pretty early.
We're still looking for fundingto complete production based in
Toronto and LA, and so we'regonna be looking for, you know,
youth to add their perspectivesto writing rooms and stuff like
that.
So I mean, if people keep intouch with me on LinkedIn and
whatnot, probably posting aboutthat later on when we look for
For youth, not only for forscript writing and youth
perspectives, but also I may docasting and whatnot.
Vai (35:00):
So wonderful and in terms of just for people to understand
the diversity of yourbackground.
You know from a student at theuniversity.
You know, like in Waterloo,like you have pretty much Walk
different paths right, Includingthe Royal Canadian police force
.
Is that right?
(35:21):
You know whatever work you'redoing for them.
Why don't you talk aboutwhatever different paths you
have taken, just so people knowthat they don't have to just
Follow yeah, and they can justlook around for opportunities
and that it just need not be astraight line approach?
Ashoke (35:38):
Yeah for sure.
That's a great question because, yeah, I think sometimes we,
you know, have this five-yearplan and we get stuck and I
gotta do this again.
But I found like the mostExciting and most rewarding
opportunities just happenspontaneously like even.
No, no, it's right in the bookand I didn't plan that at all, I
just kind of happened.
Close word when the pandemicget.
Like I mentioned earlier, when Ifirst started my climate
(36:00):
journey, I want to be an energy,then I want to be in water.
Now I'm kind of in theentertainment space.
I think the key is to just keepan open mind and I think like
again, like I mentioned earlier,say yes to everything and then,
once you try a bunch ofdifferent things, you kind of
open up your, your eyes and yourmind to kind of what's possible
, because you really you don'tknow what you don't know right,
(36:20):
unless you try it.
And so that's kind of the waythat I've been approaching
things recently Just to try awhole bunch of different things
and kind of see where thingsland or see where you know
Things connect.
Or there's intersections andUniversity, I wanted to really
focus on science, right, I wantto focus on the technical
biology, chemistry stuff.
Then I realized you know wasn'tvery good at that.
(36:42):
They're kind of working to thepolicy side and advocacy side.
Then kind of you know, realizeit's very political space, a lot
of polarization.
Then get now I'm here at theentertainment space and even
like my day job is verydifferent from what I do outside
of, like my advocacy work,right Like my day job.
I work for a police force, Ihelp them with environmental
compliance and that's veryscience heavy.
(37:03):
But I think it's cool to kindof just see the parallels
between different worlds.
And I think I think don't beafraid to generalize.
I think you like a jack of alltrades, I think it's.
Sometimes it's some peoplethink it's good to be
specialized or, you know, godown one path.
But I think it's good to haveBreath rather than depth.
You know you'd be no, no, alittle about a lot rather than a
(37:27):
lot about a little.
And then once you kind ofrealize which kind of discipline
or sector or an issue youthrive in, that's kind of where
you can kind of specialize anddive further in.
Well, when you're, when you'rejust starting, when you're early
on, I like I wouldn't advisespecializing, just because,
again, you don't know what youdon't know.
So just try a bunch ofdifferent things, say yes,
everything, and that's kind ofand don't be afraid to like jump
(37:48):
ship.
But if you like, for example,like with that podcast that I
started in university, I didn'trealize I didn't like it, I
wasn't very good at it, so it'slike I Quit it, I took it down,
right, and then I think it'simportant to realize that, like
you can start something and youcan fail and that's completely
okay, right?
I think if you can, you canmove on.
Sometimes we get, we get lost inthe, the sunk cost fallacy, you
know, when we think that we putin this amount of hours and put
(38:10):
them on this amount of dollarsinto this and like, okay, I
can't go back now because I'vealready invested it, but you
just end up continually losing.
But rather I think you shouldbe wrecked, like cognizant of
that.
Be able to pull out like thisisn't for me.
I'm gonna move on to the nextthing.
I think for me I've done thatquite a few times.
I've people don't realize thatI failed a lot of times, like
whether that's, you know,podcasts or social ventures, or
(38:33):
like failed energy companiesthat I've worked on, right, I
filled a lot and but that thathelps you succeed.
I think you know that teachesyou a lot of valuable lessons.
I think that's Important forfor youth starting out to
realize failure is a steppingstone to success.
Vai (38:48):
Pivot where necessary and then Explore all avenues
possible, just so you know youdon't just feel like a jack of
all trades and master of none,but I guess it's good for you to
have a feel of everything.
Those are all great takeawaysfrom this conversation, a show
for me and, I'm sure, for alllisteners, and you are doing
(39:09):
some wonderful work and we wishyou the very best in your
journey onward.
And if there's anything elsethat you would like to add, the
floor is yours.
Say, your contact info, anyother avenues that you would
like people to pursue along withyou, and More about your book
and everything else, your socialcontacts, whatever you may wish
(39:32):
to add here.
And if there's one thing youwould like to see listeners of
this podcast start doing interms of their Advocacy efforts
or their ability to change thenarrative on Sustainable living,
feel free to add.
Ashoke (39:48):
Yeah, thanks so much, I think like for contact info.
Wise, you guys can connect meon LinkedIn.
A show mohan Raj.
Vai (39:54):
Get a copy of.
Include that in the show notesas well and a link to your book
as well.
Ashoke (39:59):
Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it if you guys are personal
copy of Paul later man Also likeyou're interested in that.
In that show that I mentioned,we're also like we're looking
for investors.
So if you're a, 30 investorslistening.
The website is the goldilocksmission calm.
There's more info on the showthere and I think like one one
called action that would givepeople listening is it's a.
(40:22):
There's two that I would want tosay, and one is have
uncomfortable conversations.
Like you know, your friends, aclimate change denier or he
still use the plastic waterbottles.
Sure, it's uncomfortable havingthat conversation.
What's the conversation thatneeds to happen?
So you know, whether it's inyour circle, outside your circle
, don't be afraid of thoseconversations.
And then two, I think you knowjust don't be afraid of being a
(40:44):
trend center, trend trendsetteror doing your own thing, or, or,
or, or.
Like you know, for example, ifmy, your friends, use a tote bag
or reasonable water bottle,don't be afraid to be the first.
Don't.
Don't care.
They don't have opinions aboutwhat other people think of you,
right?
Because I think at the end ofthe day, regardless of what you
do or don't do, people gonnajudge you, so you might as well
just do what you feel is rightand what makes you happy, right.
(41:06):
So I think you know, just kindof use, take that as as it is
and kind of you know, understandthat there there are things
that need to be done, both forthe planet and for yourself.
I think if you do that with theright intentions, that's all
that matters at the end of theday.
And I think the biggest thingis you don't have to be perfect.
As long as you're trying,that's all that matters.
Vai (41:24):
Yeah, just be mindful of what you're doing and then
contribute your part to overallwell-being.
And, like you said, there areseveral aspects to Sustainable
living and we just definitelywalked everyone through all of
that and including well-being,including health, including
mental health.
Everything is, like you know,interconnected right.
(41:46):
So everything stems from, say,plastic is not supposedly good
for health, so Even for physicalhealth.
So everything right from andonly when we see that Mother
nature gives us what we can forus to be happy not, like you
know, unwanted floods, not likeunwanted earthquakes, not, like
(42:10):
you know, like oceanconservation is a big thing that
we all need to focus on.
So, I guess, everything, we allneed to do our part and you
brought it out very nicely there.
Thank you so much and good luckwith your next book, good luck
with your media efforts, keep usposted and definitely look
forward to connecting back withyou again in the future.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Ashoke (42:31):
I show yeah, thanks so much for having me and hope you
guys enjoyed great listeners, asalways.
Vai (42:37):
Follow the podcast, rate the podcast and leave a review
from your podcast app of choice,and and follow me on Instagram
@vaipkumar, for all things,digital media and real world.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me, Vai saying so long.
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