March 18, 2024 • 43 mins
Ever wondered how some organizations and careers go through a metamorphosis to come out even stronger on the other side?
That's exactly what we uncover with our guest Dean DeBiase, Chairman of Reboot Partners.
Traversing Dean's entrepreneurial odyssey, from his teenage business ideas, to steering innovation at some of the world's leading companies, we highlight it all.
His wisdom spills over into a rich discussion about the art of selecting transformative projects, the essence of product desirability, and the crucial timing within the market landscape.
This episode is a treasure trove for those looking to push the boundaries of business growth and innovation.
We dig into :
- the consequences of market timing
- the role of people, platform, and passion
- Dean's practical toolkit for catalyzing growth – the 'three Bs': build, buy, and borrow
- crafting a purpose-driven career, balancing fun, money, and impact
- AI and emerging trends
- Being nimble and adapting to growth needs
- Planning things out quarter by quarter and rearchitect trajectory
Join us as we navigate the shifting employment landscape and what it means for future-proofing your career.
We spotlight "the power of AND", now essential within the workforce, and how to strike a balance between your day job and growth-oriented activities.
This episode isn't just a conversation; it's a compass for those seeking to reboot their organizations or personal career paths to unprecedented heights. Tune in for actionable nuggets for sustenance of your career and propelling it forward!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vai Kumar (00:11):
Welcome to Freshly Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, Vaikumar.
Hey folks, Welcome to anotherepisode on Podcast Freshleaf
Forever.
Today I have here with us DeanDebiase.
(00:32):
He's an operating partner andchairman of Reboot Partners,
where he's a trusted advisor toboards and CEOs, helping them
tackle their most challengingissues.
Dean is a Forbes contributorand host of the Reboot
Chronicles, a top businesspodcast that has interviewed
hundreds of CEOs, unpackingtheir untold stories to help
(00:56):
audiences reboot theirorganizations and themselves.
It's with great joy that Iwelcome Dean here to podcast
Freshly Forever.
How's it going with you, Dean?
Dean Debiase (01:07):
Doing well.
Good to see you, Vai.
How's it over there?
Vai Kumar (01:10):
Well, pretty good.
So just, I guess the nextgeneration.
Dean Debiase (01:14):
The podcast is doing well.
That's good.
Vai Kumar (01:17):
Yeah, so thrilled to have you here to discuss about
all this next generation of workthat's taking.
That's becoming the buzzwordnow and taking center stage.
So rebooting organizations andcarriers, that's what you are an
expert at.
So your carrier journey, though, is a bit of a hybrid, so why
(01:40):
don't you get us started therewith all that background story
and how you got here, dean?
Dean Debiase (01:46):
A bit of a hybrid, that's fine.
Yeah, some people would say abit of a mess.
My parents always ask me whatdo you do?
It was always a long paragraph.
I grew up in the corporate worldand was very fortunate by to be
able to basically start upcompanies inside the protected
shell of some of the largestcompanies in the world like
(02:09):
Western Union, fedex, at&t, lgand a company called Anixter in
Chicago.
And I just had a knack for soas a kid I started my first
little venture at 14 and I wasstill I was in high school but
kind of bringing just disparate,diverse people and things and
(02:33):
industries together to kind ofsmash them up and create
something new.
So I learned how to do that.
At FedEx we created thisservice called ZAP Mail, which
is one of the first electronicmail carrier types of things.
It's fax based and AT&Tpartnered with them to invent
the first fiber optic laserwhich basically transformed
(02:55):
cable TV.
It took it from 24 channels tothousands.
So that was a lot of fun.
And then later one of the ATcompanies, I became my CEO.
I was the first games andmetaverse, as they call it today
, companies.
That was my first SiliconValley venture.
Before I did that.
(03:15):
My last gig was at LG.
They bought Zenith in theUnited States.
We my team we invented thefirst cable modems to totally,
as you know, kill, dial up andtransform that industry.
So kind of grew up in thishybrid hardware software thing.
So I was under services andhardware and software.
I could never settle down intoan industry and then just got.
(03:38):
I had this serendipitous momentwhere Steve Jobs was around and
I got to kind of it reallyinspired me to like quit my
corporate job in the movieSilicon Valley.
So I did that.
It became a CEO, more of anentrepreneurial CEO, and never
looked back.
I just became what they calledthe serial CEO.
I'm not sure why they called methat, but I did about 12
(04:00):
ventures where I would do thatover and over and over again in
different industries.
So yeah, definitely a Harvardview, but I think it's a big
message we can talk about laterin terms of you know, what
should people do about careersnow, because there's some good
tidbits in there.
Vai Kumar (04:15):
Oh for sure, and as an operating partner and board
member, ceo, you have taken overand run dozens of companies.
Dean, how do you make decisionsabout what projects
organizations need to?
You know, just go after.
Dean Debiase (04:34):
That is a tough one because I'm typically not
the founder.
They usually call Dean whenit's time to have some come in
and reboot.
You know the company.
That's how I came up withreboot partners, because now I
just do it.
You know more in a advisor role, but for me it comes down.
It's very situational.
Of course, it is very personal,right, because it's about me
getting involved in a companyfor a few years.
(04:55):
So whether it's a project or aventure or organization, it
could be anything for thelisteners to think about.
So I kind of narrow it down tolike three, and this one, I
think, was like three P's, youknow, is it the right product,
the right people and maybe theright period of time to?
actually do this because I'lllook at I'm still doing this
(05:16):
today, looking at dozens ofthings to get involved in either
from an advisor or a chairmanrole, but as a CEO it's heavy
duty because you're all in right.
So on the product side, it'slike so of those three things
I'll just run, even if you'rejust taking a job at a company,
just try to, you know, filterthis through your selection
(05:37):
process.
Even if you're not the top dog,it doesn't matter.
But is it, is the product,something people or
organizations, if you're a B2Bcompany, is it something they
really want?
And there it's usually the caseis not always yes.
So right product, right time.
And you know one way to you know, think about that is you know,
(05:59):
there's a difference betweeninnovation and invention.
So an invention is somethingyou just bring into the world.
Innovation is something thatpeople want.
But what's missing is the thirdlevel, business innovation.
Will people pay for it theright price so you can make a
return and make money?
That's business innovation.
And most ventures fail becausethey don't pass that test.
That could be a whole podcastepisode.
So an example I don't know.
(06:21):
Some products are just badideas.
Cheerio's lip balm comes tomind.
They literally tried to do thatproduct.
So products important, theright people is a tough one,
because as the CEO you canchange that right.
But I don't look at it that way.
It's like I look at you know,is it a good team whether it's
government or educational,because I'm involved in lots of
(06:41):
government and universityprojects doesn't have to be a
company, you know, are they goodto work with or are they going
to have fun together?
And you know, is there a goodboard?
You mentioned boards and Ilearned that lesson very, very
painfully once one of my board'sauto web that I took public it
was a very kind of unsupportedgoing with the current, you know
(07:02):
, trend of the hour kind ofboards.
So even if you're not, you know,looking at a board, it's like
who else is involved in thecompany and do you agree with
them?
And then the last one is at theright period of time,
especially if you're looking ata new venture.
So there's all types ofproducts that are just it's a
great idea, it passed the firsttest, I love the people.
Then I look at is it really tooearly or too late for markets?
(07:24):
And at one point I looked atjoining a Palm Pilot way back in
the day and that product wasjust too early.
They're using it now, but they,you know, they basically proved
that the thing and another one.
Vai Kumar (07:35):
So the synergy is important, right.
Those synergies have to kind ofalign for anything to you know,
just become big right.
Dean Debiase (07:45):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I was just pointing outyou know some products that
could still be a cool idea.
You love the people, but youhave to ask the people is this
product actually is it the righttime Like?
Another one was Microsoft Zune.
No one remembers that, but itwas like a little music.
It was a copycat productbecause Apple was getting all
the rage and it was too late.
So sometimes things reallysometimes, so the timing is
(08:06):
important too.
But anyway, those are just thethings I look at.
That's the filter, and you cando that on anything that you
have, and you often call largecorporations BFSs, right?
Vai Kumar (08:18):
So is that a bad thing?
Dean Debiase (08:20):
I get a lot of flack for this.
Bfss means big, fat and slow,and so I make fun of a lot of
big companies in my Forbesarticles on the podcast when I'm
teaching, but I also.
It's a trap because I also say,hey, it's okay to be big, fat
and slow, because most of thecompanies I'm working with are
talking about are massivemultinational companies.
(08:43):
There are billions and billionsin revenue.
Of course they're gonna be bigand fat and slow, just like
governments are right.
But what's the cautionary tale?
There is like, oh, if you putthose three together, what's the
connected tissue between thethree and the three things I
identified that I hate isirrelevance, obscurity and
decline.
That's the bad part, that's thedownside of big, fat and slow.
(09:03):
So the question is how do youmaybe not change the whole
company, but still stay awayfrom decline and irrelevance?
And so many companies arestruggling with this now.
Macy's right now, is trying todifferentiate itself and say,
hey, we're not getting the youngaudience, what are we gonna do?
We're not getting the luxuryaudience anymore, what are we
(09:23):
gonna do?
So a lot of these big companiescan reboot themselves, but I
think those are-.
Vai Kumar (09:29):
And as well in retail markets relevance.
That's very, very significant.
Dean Debiase (09:34):
Right.
Vai Kumar (09:35):
Gen Z relevance.
I think everybody's trying tofight and get in that radar now.
Dean Debiase (09:41):
X, y, Z and Alpha's to boot, yeah.
So yeah, I don't mean to pickon a certain industry.
You could take any industry,any organization it could be.
You're going to NASA andworking it down there.
It's like, hey, what is it thatcan?
But when it comes to industry,it's like that irrelevance,
obscurity and decline is what isleading to many of them falling
off the S&P 500, going out ofbusiness, being bought out
(10:04):
they're just gone.
A lot of the brands that wegrew up with are gone.
Doesn't mean they're gone outof business, but they're not the
leaders anymore.
So that's just a dangerousthing that you have to
constantly reboot yourself.
Some CEOs are really good at it.
They'll fire themselves,metaphorically speaking, once a
year to try to like say, hey, ifI was a new guy coming in, like
Dean, what would I do to thiscompany?
(10:24):
So a lot of this you can doyourself, even in just a line
level jobs Like hey, I know thatwe've always been doing it this
way, but maybe we should change, because Tesla came out with
this whole new way to buildsomething and you might be in a
different industry.
So I love stealing ideas.
Vai Kumar (10:41):
So where does Dean come in then, when it comes to
that rebooting part?
How did Dean do it?
Dean Debiase (10:48):
It depends.
So in the CEO world it's prettyclear With many companies it's
unlike the one company, some ofthem are just startups, so they
don't necessarily need rebooting.
Like I'm chairman of Reveve,which is a health, beauty and
wellness SaaS company, so it'sbusiness to business type of
thing, so you're just helping onthe growth acceleration on the
(11:09):
outside.
With other companies it's likedo you need more help on the
inside?
So I tend to net things down.
You know me, there's two thingsin a company I can look at the
product roadmap inside and I canlook at the go-to-market
strategy.
Those are your two buzzwordsyou should be smart on if you're
trying to learn, because that'swhere you can help companies.
(11:30):
How do I help them become moreefficient or relevant to
consumers Right product, rightprice, or how do I get them to
market better?
And different channels,different partnerships you know
all that stuff.
So that's like the high levelthing.
But reboots in general, like ifI step in as an advisor, there's
one company I'm looking atright now and they need a core
(11:51):
reboot which is basically goingto be blending that like the
thrill and excitement andcoolness of a startup that vibe
with the discipline and rigorand exactitude of like a
turnaround.
So I just mentioned two thingsthat are totally juxtaposed.
When I tell people that they'relike there's no way you can
bring a startup and turnaroundtogether, those are like totally
(12:11):
different, and I said actuallyyou can.
That's why you want to do areboot.
You need to do it before theturnaround guy shows up, because
if the turnaround guys show up,there's companies that's only
do it's too late, you've missedyour window, and so I think
that's real important.
The short answer, though, onthat is I look at three things.
So reboots there's a really 12,but the three are most
(12:31):
important are people, platformand passion, and at any type of
reboot I've ever done or justhelped on, it always affects all
three, because you need to comein and figure out do we have
the right people doing the rightthings?
Vai Kumar (12:47):
Should we have different.
Oh, absolutely.
Dean Debiase (12:49):
That's probably the most important one, the
platform we already talked about.
Is the right product, righttime?
That's usually a no, it's offbase and the passion is not so
much what you think.
It's not everyone runningaround being excited and having
a great day.
It's if we already have theright people and we're actually
focused on the right markets.
This should be a reallyexciting opportunity to kind of
(13:10):
restart the excitement level andthe focus and the
entrepreneurialism in some casesin a small group inside a big
company.
Sometimes you start small but,yeah, I find that people,
platform, passion blend.
Vai Kumar (13:23):
If I don't touch on those three, like if there's
ever been a failure, whichusually we didn't do one of
those well, Okay, peopleplatform passion, but then
everybody like I guess you wouldhave noticed even when you walk
in they all just want growth,right?
Everyone wants growth.
So they probably don't evenlook at some of the factors that
are impeding their growth.
(13:44):
But when it comes to growth andinnovation, dean, what are some
approaches organizations canmake to shift?
Dean Debiase (13:53):
Right.
Well, it's funny because yousaid they all want growth, so
sometimes they're not ready forgrowth and we have to.
Vai Kumar (14:02):
But do they even realize that?
Do you think?
Dean Debiase (14:05):
Sometimes they don't, so we have to focus on
efficiency.
So what you're seeing right nowin the second half of the 20s
here is the big tech companiesthat bet everything on growth
are becoming more efficient.
So some of them actually needto become more efficient first
and then regrowth or restartfrom that platform.
But in terms of again, it'sreally situational.
(14:28):
But you need to look at theproduct and service mix and
figure out what needs to bechanged in order to get to that
growth level.
But three things we look atthere are we call this the three
Bs instead of the three Ps.
It's just focusing on theplatform, right, the people and
not the passion.
(14:48):
So it's a build by borrow.
So what is it that we shouldcontinue to build with?
our people, our core.
I don't care if it's software,dresses, shoes, gasoline,
whatever it is.
What are we going to buildourselves?
And let's just keep that at ourcore.
What are we going to buy,acquire whether it's an actual
company or some component thingand then what are we going to
borrow?
And the magic comes in thecombination of those three.
(15:11):
That's how at least I look atunnaturally accelerating the
growth of a company faster thanothers.
So I'll give you three examples.
So a good build example is acompany called Zoho, and Zoho is
an SMB tool that has just abouteverything you need to run your
company, and they have built itfrom scratch.
They've never required anything.
So they've got like 50 appsthat are in a suite and it's a
(15:35):
billion dollar.
Vai Kumar (15:36):
Just a build machine type of.
Dean Debiase (15:39):
They have all their own people, all their own
software, all their own AI folks.
They do partnerships but theyhaven't acquired any companies.
Then you switch to another oneor who's done a buying or maybe
too much buying.
So these are examples.
These are the two extremes.
So Google really, if you lookat their core innovation, they
haven't really built much.
They've acquired most of theirsuccessful things except for
(15:59):
their ad business.
But even there they acquired alot of companies in the early
days.
You know YouTube was anacquisition.
So they really haven't beenthat great at organic innovation
, where Zoho is just at theoption extreme or are they right
or wrong?
No, but that's just where theirDNA was.
So when you bring in the thirdcomponent, which is borrowing,
without getting too boring here,you know that's the magic of
(16:22):
hey, if you're really good atbuilding, let's do more
borrowing.
If you're really good atacquiring companies, let's
figure out how do we evenempower our own people or
actually start doing morepartnerships.
So I'm trying to think of acouple of examples for you on
borrowing.
So product partnerships, right,an old one might be Apple and
Nike coming together, for youknow, the first kind of you know
(16:43):
, connected kind of a sneakershoe a go to market example.
More channel stuff is like aSherman Williams once partnered
up with pottery barns likeyou're you know, buying your
shopping for your home?
Why aren't you talking aboutcolors and paint?
It was like low levelpartnerships, but the real good
partnership, not low level, butthat didn't totally change the
(17:04):
trajectory of the company.
But if you do this right andyou get really good at borrowing
most companies aren't.
It's hard you can change thetrajectory and growth of the
company versus just, you know,getting bigger at what you're
doing.
So that's that's how we came upwith the whole, you know,
dancing with startups program.
Vai Kumar (17:23):
It's part of the part of the?
Okay, so I was just going toask you about that.
So how does that, is that morebeneficial for like a
solopreneur or, like you know,entrepreneur?
Just, you know, kind of tryingto just figure their strategy,
you know, and then, kind of, youknow, just get their grounding,
(17:47):
or do you think it can also,kind of, you know, borrowing
examples from that or borrowingsome facets of that program is
kind of how you also help someof these large corporations need
.
Dean Debiase (18:01):
That's actually how it was invented years ago.
Came up with the dancing withstartups program while I was
teaching at Kellogg,northwestern, and it was
designed for the BFSs the bigfat, slow multi-nations to help
them literally dance withstartups, not just buy them.
Again, this could be a, youknow, a two hour talk, but how
(18:22):
do you actually start slowlydancing with them to affect your
trajectory and affect yourculture and affect your growth
and affect whatever?
Vai Kumar (18:31):
Some of them and is right, some of the mergers and
acquisitions and all of that.
Dean Debiase (18:35):
And that was that's usually the last choice.
So there's there's there's fourthings we help them with.
These are big companies and youcan flip it and do it.
Entrepreneurs can do the samething, but in reverse.
So there's a there's fourthings that big companies can do
.
To be March, but I'll dancewith startups.
There's actually way more, butthe four that we find most
useful are basically enablingyour current employees to become
(18:59):
more entrepreneurial and givingthem the tools for actually
hiring new people.
But they're, but they'rebasically full-time employees
around payroll.
They're not.
They don't have much to do withthe entrepreneur of the
ecosystem and some companieshave done that well.
Others have, you know, notnecessarily given them the
freedom or the latitude, or theydon't really have the skill
sets to go start up somethingnew inside a big company.
(19:21):
You know which I told you.
That's how I started out as akid.
I was one of the youngestmanaging directors at FedEx and
I was just lucky enough to getthat opportunity.
So they need to give peoplemore opportunities, like I had
to start things, whatever it is,could be a product, could be
anything.
It doesn't have to be a bigventure.
So that's essentially enablingwho you have.
The second one is embeddingentrepreneurs inside your
(19:43):
company.
So this is going out andbringing more entrepreneurial
talent into the company.
So that's, whether you'reyou're involved in an
accelerator or an incubator or,like Disney, partnered up with
Techstars years ago to try tofind different types of
companies that they couldpartner with, but this is more
bringing.
Like you said, soloentrepreneurs need to come into
(20:03):
large corporations to to helpthem be a part of it or blending
them together somehow.
The third one is my favorite.
We call it separating.
So separating from themothership is all in a four
square, if you could imagine it.
And that actually is setting upbigger ventures where you're
giving these people.
I've done three or four ofthese back in my large company
(20:26):
days where you take, you know,you start a new venture,
typically in a differentbuilding, different location,
and you set up an entirelyseparate culture that can start
new ventures and new companies.
And that's the most successfulones I've had in large
corporations back when I was akid.
Was is when we actuallyseparated from the mothership
without letting, like you know,the numbers guys are, the CFOs
(20:49):
restrict you.
You need to actually let themodel play out so you can't just
be on, like you know, a part ofa floor, you know, with some
cool stuff hanging from theceiling.
It actually needs to be real.
And if you can do any one ofthose three, the last one is
just engaging with the globalentrepreneurial systems.
You dance, you're doing allthese at once and most companies
(21:11):
try to jump to that right away,without trying to do the first
three, which is embedding,enabling and separating from the
mothership.
So to you know, to answer yourquestion, the other reverse is
what we came up with later.
It's like okay, now we helpmaybe a hundred companies, big,
huge, bfs is how do startups andentrepreneurs deploy this model
(21:33):
?
Well, they already were,because all of the deals that we
helped a large corporationswith, they were all the startups
, solo entrepreneurs, peoplelike you, that were brought in
or partnered or acquired, builtby borrow, with some of the
largest companies in the world,like Exxalon, whirlpool.
There's dozens of them that usethis as a way to become more
entrepreneurial and get a growthtrack going.
(21:55):
So you know, a decade later,it's helped.
And what you'll see, though, adecade later, or almost two
decades now, you know everyone'sdoing this for companies.
Now there's been a lot of falsestarts, so it's not for the
faint of heart.
It doesn't work in some bigcompanies.
Sometimes you know a lot oflunchmars will come in and new
general manager will show up orCEO, and next thing you know the
(22:17):
program is cut.
So you have to go into theserelationships with pretty thick
skin.
Vai Kumar (22:25):
And before we jump on to some of the personal
challenges you have encounteredin the process and all of that,
Dean, what?
And also focusing on the nextgeneration of work, again AI
taking center stage.
Now, right, so AI andsustainability and several other
(22:46):
, you know.
Where do you see AI coming intothe picture, predominantly in
terms of businesses?
You know can go from this pointon.
Dean Debiase (22:59):
Yes.
So, whether it's business,government, universities,
organizations and just anybody,ai is going to totally turn your
industry upside down.
But comments like that are veryhelpful.
I've been involved in AIcompanies for 10 years.
One of them is Revive.
They are one of the first skindiagnostic companies to help you
know brands and retailers.
Vai Kumar (23:20):
And doing bespoke services right, based on all the
data.
Dean Debiase (23:24):
You take a piece of it right and then you use it
to start a new company or a newservice.
So so you know the short answerlet me give you a short answer,
because the long one's too longand it is, but it's very
important is like don't beworried about AI taking your job
away.
I tell people be more worriedabout someone like Vi, who's
(23:45):
going to become AI enabled.
She's going to learn enoughtools using AI to make her more
productive, smarter, betteremployee, and I'm going to hire
her over you.
So you should be worried aboutsomeone who's actually
leveraging AI and they're goingto bid you on a job, because
people like me will say, boy, Ican get things done three times
as fast as the other, or theyhave new capability, skill that
(24:06):
we haven't even invented yet.
So that's one.
And the second one is you know,just be a lifelong learner and
AI is just one new thing.
Don't get.
Don't get stuck on just the onenew thing, because if you did,
you'd be stuck on metaverse froma couple of years ago.
Vai Kumar (24:20):
And again.
Dean Debiase (24:21):
That again didn't go very far, so I think it you
know.
Just those are the two things.
You don't need to know how itworks and you don't need to
worry about it putting it out ofbusiness.
You need to use it as anenabler so you're more
competitive in the marketplace,whether they're going to be in a
big company, a small company orgoing to be a solopreneur.
Vai Kumar (24:41):
Yeah, a lot of applications right, optimized
and sustainable logistics forcompany.
A lot of the data analysis isgoing to help them in several
different ways.
You know, including you knowRight.
Dean Debiase (24:56):
And whether I just didn't want to go into all that
because there's so manyindustry applications.
I think the message for yourfolks is so important for their
career.
They're going to learn newskill sets that will do two
things going to change theircapabilities.
I'll use you as an example.
You know you've learned a lotof things in the last year that
you probably are more productivethan used to be I wish I could
(25:16):
say that about myself, but gottoo much going on and it can
also help them change theirtrajectory, their career and
their whole industry.
That's how useful it can be,but just don't get stuck in it.
Vai Kumar (25:30):
Yeah, don't get caught down by it, but just add
it as a piece of the puzzle interms of the learning agenda,
right?
Dean Debiase (25:38):
Right.
Vai Kumar (25:39):
Yes, and in the road ahead, dean, what should people
do to better prepare themselvesfor the next generation of work?
Dean Debiase (25:50):
This is my favorite topic, actually working
on a book about this called theReboot.
It's a three series one.
So the first one is aboutrebooting yourself.
The next one is aboutorganizations.
It's going to go on and on, butthere's like a three part
question.
It's like what can you do andwhat kind of roles are there out
there?
But I think the biggest if I hadto take it up to a high level
(26:14):
is you need to learn the powerof and A and D, both inside your
organization and outside yourorganization, whatever the
organization is.
But let's assume you might workfor a big company or something.
And then you need to look atthe ecosystem out there.
There's basically three buckets.
There's huge I'll just callthem XL organizations very large
(26:36):
organizations public, private,government, university, doesn't
matter.
There's extra smallorganizations, everything from
startups to scale-ups to justbeing a family on businesses
that have been there a hundredyears.
And then there's just to use ato coin a trendy term.
There's the gig economy, so Icall them gigsters.
That'll change, we'll keepcalling it new things.
(26:56):
The freelancers, whatever.
You need to be able to dance inall three of those in the
future, and I know that soundsoverwhelming.
So what I teach a lot of mystudents and even executives is
you need to do your day job.
And one other thing In yourcompany.
We'll get to the outside, butinside your company you need to
(27:17):
do your day job.
You're the director ofe-commerce or your product
manager and you need to figureout a new role in your company.
So I basically lay out five orsix roles that they can take on,
and these are really focused ongrowth and innovation.
So they're or efficiency, sothey're very self-serving about
how do you help your companyoutside of your current role.
(27:39):
So if you want to do the powerof and many people choose to do
it inside their company, Iactually coach people to do
something outside your companybecause it prepares you for the
future.
I don't have time to go into it.
But inside your company,there's four roles I talk about.
There's basically, you know,scouting, planners, builders and
sustainers, and those are rolesthat it's not in your job
(28:02):
description.
You're just doing it on theside.
You know, maybe you're lettingpeople know, but you're kind of
scouting for the next thing thatthey could be involved in or do
, or partners.
You're planning it, figuringout how do we actually build
this venture.
That's usually more of a jobthat they offer you, but
learning that planning skill,it's like, yeah, I know we want
to get into this, but here's away to do it.
It's like we could actuallypartner with these guys.
We don't have to hire 100 people.
(28:23):
Builders are the ones that areactually going to build it.
So those are thoseentrepreneurs inside the big
companies that are needed.
And then the last one is youget older.
You're going to become asustainer inside a company.
You don't have to be olderanymore, but just you have a
higher level of job and you havemore influence and you can help
all these people keep thismovement going, whatever it is,
(28:43):
because movements and companiesusually trickle up.
They do well and then newperson comes in, from CEO to a
manager, and they stop it, andit's important for the
sustainers to keep that going.
Vai Kumar (28:56):
But do you see this gig economy taking more
precedence, more of a choicewhen it comes to employment, or
like the traditional careerroute?
Dean Debiase (29:07):
So that was inside the company.
I'll start.
You know how do you deploy thepower of and outside your
company?
So, first of all, yes, the thegig economy.
Let's just call themfreelancers, you call them
solopreneurs 20 different words.
There's 1.5 billion people inthe workforce that are
self-employed.
That's like 40, over 45% of theglobal workforce.
(29:31):
That's a shocker, it's just ashocking number.
And that number, so we, youknow, when our parents were like
in charge, that was a very lownumber.
It was a lot of smallbusinesses, but there's never
been a better opportunity to dosomething on your own.
So, so no, I don't think it'sgoing to go away.
The important thing and thepower of and is what do you do
(29:51):
outside your company?
So you got your day job, youwork for a company, maybe you're
doing your own thing, but whatelse could you be doing?
So it could be anything fromvolunteering to doing something
that is actually preparing youfor the next move, whether it's,
you know, learning, educationor actually just working in
another venture.
For many of my corporate I'llcall them students I often tell
(30:16):
them fine, keep your job at KPMG.
But also, you know, volunteerhere at 1871, one of our
incubators in Chicago, or with astartup or whatever.
Don't worry about getting paid,but figure out a way where you
can actually do something elsethat's not too conflicting with
your current job.
That is either providing youwith a lot of joy or actually
preparing you for the nextgeneration.
(30:37):
And the important thing to yourdirect question is what is the
next generation?
It's being able to dance inthat XL, xs, extra small, extra
large, gig economy job.
Those three things are more andmore intertwined and your
career trajectory will be morehybrid, just like mine was.
I never had these opportunitieswhere you might start out as a
(30:59):
startup and go to a bigcorporation and start your own
thing.
You might start out whereyou're doing your startup, then
you go to a small companybecause it's you know, it's just
a natural thing to do, and thenyou ended up a big company.
Many of the people now are likethey're stuck at these big
companies and they're trying toget out of them and they're not
ill-equipped to move to the youknow, small startups or to you
(31:21):
know, their own venture.
So you're starting your owncompany or just being a
solopreneur.
So understanding all three ofthose.
Again, there's more, but tryingto keep it simple, it's a
global economy where you cankind of dance in all three of
them and it does prepare you for, you know, right now a lot of
companies are going throughlayoffs, where the people that
have done this they're moreprepared to be gigsters and
(31:43):
start out on their own and, youknow, create a small business.
Others still want the safety ofthe next big one, but they may
hang out a while in theentrepreneurial space while they
, you know, try to find theirnext big job.
Vai Kumar (31:54):
Is that the best route, then, to kind of finding
purpose and what they do, dean,because a lot of times I think
people get bogged down andfrustrated with what they do and
maybe some, you know, they getstuck for lack of better word
and I get stuck, I totally getit it goes to the point that it
(32:16):
starts to even impact mentalhealth, right?
So?
Dean Debiase (32:19):
it does.
So you mentioned purpose and Ifind that finding your purpose
is critical.
It's critical to, like you said, your physical health, your
mental health, your happiness,and there's a lot of consultants
and diagrams out there that'llshow you.
This just brings all thesethings together.
(32:40):
I'm drawing a circle for thoseof you not on the video feed and
they say purpose is in themiddle.
So I'll show that slide first.
And I said this is a trap.
Don't ever think purpose is inthe middle of all these
beautiful things, because noneof us can do all those things at
once.
Purpose is a very fleeting,situational moment that you just
have to create yourself andlife occasionally or with people
(33:03):
.
There might be something by andI do as a project or a venture,
or maybe I'm finding it rightnow, just recording this podcast
with it and most people thinkpurpose is like I have to have
it all the time.
So I basically it took me awhile to get to this I used to
make decisions.
Where you asked me before howdo I make decisions?
It was like can I make moneyand is it fun?
(33:24):
And if I could check both ofthose boxes when I was younger,
I would just do it.
I wasn't very picky Might it beboth boxes, though and then I
realized later in my lifesomething was missing.
There was no purpose.
It was whatever.
It was just anything from likeupsetness to sadness to
depression.
You're just like, oh, I'm doingthis, working.
(33:45):
So I added a third one to themix, kind of accidentally.
So I added impact.
So the way I make decisions nowis fun, money and impact, and
if you put those three togetherand any graphic that you like,
now I only have to check two ofthose, not both, but if I can
check two, I'm pretty happy withit.
So if you take fun, money andimpact and put them together,
it's the connected tissue againBetween the three is where I
(34:09):
find purpose.
So I'm like, hey, there's a jobhere, it's fun, but there's not
a lot of money.
That's probably a startup.
Should I do it?
Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it.
Should I do something forimpact and money?
I'm like, well, that's thehardest thing to find For me.
It's public speaking.
It's like you get paid, you'remotivating an audience, it's
nice.
Most of them are like they'reimpact, but they're not a lot of
(34:31):
money.
That's like volunteering at anorganization, whether it's
anything from your church to abusiness group, so you can do
all these combinations.
Vai Kumar (34:41):
What I've found mistakenly is I'll keep your
passion and find your truecalling right.
Dean Debiase (34:48):
Yeah, but it's situational.
It's like.
That's why the power of and isso important Because your fun,
money and impact will bedifferent from everything you do
.
So there's some things that youjust need to give up on and say
I'm not doing this for money,I'm doing this for fun and
impact.
There's other things whereyou're saying it's my day job,
I'm doing this for money, I'mactually not having any fun, but
(35:10):
I'm gonna tolerate it a littlebit longer because I have a
couple other things going onthat do bring me joy and passion
and purpose.
The trap, I was saying, is, ifyou try to bring all that
together on your day to day jobevery day, it's basically
demotivating.
It's too hard to do.
So you give yourself a breakand create situations where you
(35:30):
can find a little passion andpurpose situationally, either
day by day, or project byproject or company by company.
Gotcha.
Vai Kumar (35:40):
So what about any personal challenge or career
advice if you will Dean for ouraudience and all about
everything else that?
That's on the cards for DeanDePiers.
Dean Debiase (35:54):
Yeah, I mean I have no shortage of personal
challenges.
I mean, everything I justdescribed has been a lot of fits
and starts and learning curvesalong the way, and that's why,
you know, just try to helppeople learn from that, figure
out.
You know, how do I learn fromother people's?
Not so much mistakes butdifferent, hybrid versions of
(36:15):
themselves.
So you have to, um, my biggestone was, oh boy, moving to
Silicon Valley.
So when I had this you knowencounter with Steve Jobs and
decided to quit my prettysuccessful corporate career I
was doing really well in Chicagoand moved my family out to
Silicon Valley, I was, you know,I took my first flight out
(36:36):
there, been there a lot ofbusiness, so I loved it and I
felt I landed and had my firstmeeting and I instantly felt,
wait a minute.
In Chicago in my corporate lifeI was this young whippersnapper
, you know whiz kid, and somehow, as I flew out to California,
four hours later I was like theoldest guy in the room and I was
(36:58):
only so you were a differentperson.
I was only 30.
Now it's just like everyone wasso young in Silicon Valley and
in Chicago.
Everyone was still, you know, Iwas the young one and they were
all the old people stillwearing suits and yeah.
So I just like instantly it allchanged, which was very strange
to me.
But the toughest challenge wasnot that, obviously it it.
(37:20):
It was a little bit, but it wasokay.
A you need to be moreentrepreneurial.
B you're in charge.
You're not like the VP ofproduct, you're the CEO of the
Imagination Network, the largestgames company in the world,
which was currently run by AT&T.
And I quickly figured out, youknow.
So here I am on the, you know,a CEO of a subsidiary of one of
(37:44):
the world's largest corporations, one of the first companies on
the stock exchange in the US,and I quickly figured out that
they had bought the company forthe wrong reason and probably
hired me for the wrong reason,and we spent the next two years,
you know, rebooting the company, getting it switched over to
two different platforms andMicrosoft 95 was coming on, all
(38:07):
that.
So it was a triple challenge of, you know, wrong people, wrong
owners, maybe the wrong time,and they were pretty far behind.
So it was.
It was a.
It was a you questionyourselves in the middle of a
meeting at 2 am in the morning,when the servers are down and
things aren't working anyway.
So we ended up I didn't know itwas going to be a reboot.
(38:29):
So this is where I kind of gotthe the the reboot skills on
your own, where you're notreally protected by anything.
But we quickly figured out whoowned us didn't really shouldn't
own the company, so we had todivest the company from AT&T and
sell it to you know whoever whowas interested at time, as
Microsoft and AOL.
We ended up becoming the AOLgames channel, which was just
(38:51):
nirvana.
We went from being this youknow company we're not sure
where it should fit again likeit's game company out there to
AOL, which was like, oh my gosh,we're so glad you're here.
So bad situation turned into agood.
But yeah, be careful what youask for and do your due
diligence.
As I said before that thatwhole all the things I said
about you know, right place,right time, right people is is
(39:15):
important and the only otheradvice I would give is just go
back to the power of and what isit that I'm doing?
That maybe isn't giving mepurpose or passion or whatever,
but understand that's fleeting.
You can still work through that.
But what else should I be doingright now instead of going to I
hate to say the gym, butinstead of going to all the
normal things you do, you couldcarve out one or two hours a day
(39:37):
to do so many things, includingjust using your computer to
learn a new skill like AI, orhelping out a startup, or, if
you're out of startup, doingsomething different.
But you need to have multipleskill sets.
Vai Kumar (39:50):
So the for the revolutionary times ahead in
business, which is going to be,you know, moving between large
companies, small companies,entrepreneurial ventures,
teaching or nothing for time foryeah, like you said, yeah, pro
bono, offer your skills pro bonoand then, kind of you know,
that's definitely going to offermore learning opportunities and
and definitely the power of andis just amplified right there,
(40:14):
correct?
Dean Debiase (40:15):
yeah it's.
It's helped a lot of mystudents.
But what I've noticed is it'shelping a lot of mid-career
people because they're stuck.
So whether you're thinkingabout joining a big company
coming out of school or you'restuck in one right now either
one you should be doing twothings.
Don't just take the job andjust say, yep, I got this new
job, I'm going 100%, it's likethat's cool, go 90 and then
(40:37):
spend the other, because 100% ofyour time is 25 hours a day.
So do your job, but do a coupleother things and goodness is it
, can be anything you wantfantastic.
Vai Kumar (40:47):
Thank you so much for taking the time today to talk
to us, dean, and so what'scoming?
What can people look forward towith Dean DeBuyas?
Dean Debiase (40:55):
with me.
Oh, just, I am working on a newbook, the reboot.
That always takes well, butjust out on a speaking tour now
talking about it and so speakingand writing.
So check out our podcast.
The reboot chronicles.
It's great stories from CEOsthat I'm pretty good at getting
(41:15):
them to open up and tell theirstories.
That helps us personally as, asyou know, career-minded folks
or just personal passion typesof stuff.
The book is really there tohelp on what we just touched on,
which is like how do you planand how do you prepare yourself
for the revolutionary businessdecade ahead and so that you're
(41:36):
kind of on top of things, notjust reacting but actually being
proactive and having moreoptions and we call it
optionality in the book foryourself and your own career, so
that and you know, just tryingto keep doing what I'm doing,
which is every decision I make.
It's like fun, money and impact.
I have to always remember tocome back to that and kind of
(41:56):
plan things out quarter toquarter.
Don't get stuck in.
Hey, every year, every DecemberI look at the year and I plan
it out and then by February I'vefailed, it's like you know.
So every couple months you wantto kind of come back to the
drawing board and re-architectwhere you're going.
It sounds a little overwhelming, but my best advice is have
some fun with it.
So that's what I'm doingperfect.
Vai Kumar (42:18):
So such wonderful nuggets there for sustenance of
work and for, you know, everyonethere thinking about the next
generation of work.
Thank you so much, dean, fortaking time to talk to us today
and wishing you the best.
With the podcast and speakingof the power of, and I've had
the pleasure of working withDean DePiers on his podcast, the
(42:40):
reboot Chronicles, so that hashelped me.
That has helped me learn a lot.
That has helped me put a lot ofthings into perspective, aside
from doing this freshleafforever podcast, and it's not
just podcasting, but it's a lotof business strategy that I've
got to work with Dean on and doa lot of writing and and content
(43:03):
creation and strategizing.
So thank you for thatopportunity, dean, and look
forward to having many morewonderful conversations.
Dean Debiase (43:12):
Thanks Vy, good to see you.
Vai Kumar (43:13):
Listeners, as always, follow the podcast, rate the
podcast and leave a review fromyour podcast app of choice.
Follow me on Instagram andYouTube at vaipkumar.
That's v-a-i-p-k-u-m-a-r forall things digital media and
lifestyle.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
(43:34):
yet another interesting topic.
It's me Vai, along with thewonderful Dean, saying so long.
Welcome to Freshly Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, Vaikumar.
Hey folks, Welcome to anotherepisode on Podcast Freshleaf
Forever.
Today I have here with us DeanDebiase.
(00:32):
He's an operating partner andchairman of Reboot Partners,
where he's a trusted advisor toboards and CEOs, helping them
tackle their most challengingissues.
Dean is a Forbes contributorand host of the Reboot
Chronicles, a top businesspodcast that has interviewed
hundreds of CEOs, unpackingtheir untold stories to help
(00:56):
audiences reboot theirorganizations and themselves.
It's with great joy that Iwelcome Dean here to podcast
Freshly Forever.
How's it going with you, Dean?
Dean Debiase (01:07):
Doing well.
Good to see you, Vai.
How's it over there?
Vai Kumar (01:10):
Well, pretty good.
So just, I guess the nextgeneration.
Dean Debiase (01:14):
The podcast is doing well.
That's good.
Vai Kumar (01:17):
Yeah, so thrilled to have you here to discuss about
all this next generation of workthat's taking.
That's becoming the buzzwordnow and taking center stage.
So rebooting organizations andcarriers, that's what you are an
expert at.
So your carrier journey, though, is a bit of a hybrid, so why
(01:40):
don't you get us started therewith all that background story
and how you got here, dean?
Dean Debiase (01:46):
A bit of a hybrid, that's fine.
Yeah, some people would say abit of a mess.
My parents always ask me whatdo you do?
It was always a long paragraph.
I grew up in the corporate worldand was very fortunate by to be
able to basically start upcompanies inside the protected
shell of some of the largestcompanies in the world like
(02:09):
Western Union, fedex, at&t, lgand a company called Anixter in
Chicago.
And I just had a knack for soas a kid I started my first
little venture at 14 and I wasstill I was in high school but
kind of bringing just disparate,diverse people and things and
(02:33):
industries together to kind ofsmash them up and create
something new.
So I learned how to do that.
At FedEx we created thisservice called ZAP Mail, which
is one of the first electronicmail carrier types of things.
It's fax based and AT&Tpartnered with them to invent
the first fiber optic laserwhich basically transformed
(02:55):
cable TV.
It took it from 24 channels tothousands.
So that was a lot of fun.
And then later one of the ATcompanies, I became my CEO.
I was the first games andmetaverse, as they call it today
, companies.
That was my first SiliconValley venture.
Before I did that.
(03:15):
My last gig was at LG.
They bought Zenith in theUnited States.
We my team we invented thefirst cable modems to totally,
as you know, kill, dial up andtransform that industry.
So kind of grew up in thishybrid hardware software thing.
So I was under services andhardware and software.
I could never settle down intoan industry and then just got.
(03:38):
I had this serendipitous momentwhere Steve Jobs was around and
I got to kind of it reallyinspired me to like quit my
corporate job in the movieSilicon Valley.
So I did that.
It became a CEO, more of anentrepreneurial CEO, and never
looked back.
I just became what they calledthe serial CEO.
I'm not sure why they called methat, but I did about 12
(04:00):
ventures where I would do thatover and over and over again in
different industries.
So yeah, definitely a Harvardview, but I think it's a big
message we can talk about laterin terms of you know, what
should people do about careersnow, because there's some good
tidbits in there.
Vai Kumar (04:15):
Oh for sure, and as an operating partner and board
member, ceo, you have taken overand run dozens of companies.
Dean, how do you make decisionsabout what projects
organizations need to?
You know, just go after.
Dean Debiase (04:34):
That is a tough one because I'm typically not
the founder.
They usually call Dean whenit's time to have some come in
and reboot.
You know the company.
That's how I came up withreboot partners, because now I
just do it.
You know more in a advisor role, but for me it comes down.
It's very situational.
Of course, it is very personal,right, because it's about me
getting involved in a companyfor a few years.
(04:55):
So whether it's a project or aventure or organization, it
could be anything for thelisteners to think about.
So I kind of narrow it down tolike three, and this one, I
think, was like three P's, youknow, is it the right product,
the right people and maybe theright period of time to?
actually do this because I'lllook at I'm still doing this
(05:16):
today, looking at dozens ofthings to get involved in either
from an advisor or a chairmanrole, but as a CEO it's heavy
duty because you're all in right.
So on the product side, it'slike so of those three things
I'll just run, even if you'rejust taking a job at a company,
just try to, you know, filterthis through your selection
(05:37):
process.
Even if you're not the top dog,it doesn't matter.
But is it, is the product,something people or
organizations, if you're a B2Bcompany, is it something they
really want?
And there it's usually the caseis not always yes.
So right product, right time.
And you know one way to you know, think about that is you know,
(05:59):
there's a difference betweeninnovation and invention.
So an invention is somethingyou just bring into the world.
Innovation is something thatpeople want.
But what's missing is the thirdlevel, business innovation.
Will people pay for it theright price so you can make a
return and make money?
That's business innovation.
And most ventures fail becausethey don't pass that test.
That could be a whole podcastepisode.
So an example I don't know.
(06:21):
Some products are just badideas.
Cheerio's lip balm comes tomind.
They literally tried to do thatproduct.
So products important, theright people is a tough one,
because as the CEO you canchange that right.
But I don't look at it that way.
It's like I look at you know,is it a good team whether it's
government or educational,because I'm involved in lots of
(06:41):
government and universityprojects doesn't have to be a
company, you know, are they goodto work with or are they going
to have fun together?
And you know, is there a goodboard?
You mentioned boards and Ilearned that lesson very, very
painfully once one of my board'sauto web that I took public it
was a very kind of unsupportedgoing with the current, you know
(07:02):
, trend of the hour kind ofboards.
So even if you're not, you know,looking at a board, it's like
who else is involved in thecompany and do you agree with
them?
And then the last one is at theright period of time,
especially if you're looking ata new venture.
So there's all types ofproducts that are just it's a
great idea, it passed the firsttest, I love the people.
Then I look at is it really tooearly or too late for markets?
(07:24):
And at one point I looked atjoining a Palm Pilot way back in
the day and that product wasjust too early.
They're using it now, but they,you know, they basically proved
that the thing and another one.
Vai Kumar (07:35):
So the synergy is important, right.
Those synergies have to kind ofalign for anything to you know,
just become big right.
Dean Debiase (07:45):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I was just pointing outyou know some products that
could still be a cool idea.
You love the people, but youhave to ask the people is this
product actually is it the righttime Like?
Another one was Microsoft Zune.
No one remembers that, but itwas like a little music.
It was a copycat productbecause Apple was getting all
the rage and it was too late.
So sometimes things reallysometimes, so the timing is
(08:06):
important too.
But anyway, those are just thethings I look at.
That's the filter, and you cando that on anything that you
have, and you often call largecorporations BFSs, right?
Vai Kumar (08:18):
So is that a bad thing?
Dean Debiase (08:20):
I get a lot of flack for this.
Bfss means big, fat and slow,and so I make fun of a lot of
big companies in my Forbesarticles on the podcast when I'm
teaching, but I also.
It's a trap because I also say,hey, it's okay to be big, fat
and slow, because most of thecompanies I'm working with are
talking about are massivemultinational companies.
(08:43):
There are billions and billionsin revenue.
Of course they're gonna be bigand fat and slow, just like
governments are right.
But what's the cautionary tale?
There is like, oh, if you putthose three together, what's the
connected tissue between thethree and the three things I
identified that I hate isirrelevance, obscurity and
decline.
That's the bad part, that's thedownside of big, fat and slow.
(09:03):
So the question is how do youmaybe not change the whole
company, but still stay awayfrom decline and irrelevance?
And so many companies arestruggling with this now.
Macy's right now, is trying todifferentiate itself and say,
hey, we're not getting the youngaudience, what are we gonna do?
We're not getting the luxuryaudience anymore, what are we
(09:23):
gonna do?
So a lot of these big companiescan reboot themselves, but I
think those are-.
Vai Kumar (09:29):
And as well in retail markets relevance.
That's very, very significant.
Dean Debiase (09:34):
Right.
Vai Kumar (09:35):
Gen Z relevance.
I think everybody's trying tofight and get in that radar now.
Dean Debiase (09:41):
X, y, Z and Alpha's to boot, yeah.
So yeah, I don't mean to pickon a certain industry.
You could take any industry,any organization it could be.
You're going to NASA andworking it down there.
It's like, hey, what is it thatcan?
But when it comes to industry,it's like that irrelevance,
obscurity and decline is what isleading to many of them falling
off the S&P 500, going out ofbusiness, being bought out
(10:04):
they're just gone.
A lot of the brands that wegrew up with are gone.
Doesn't mean they're gone outof business, but they're not the
leaders anymore.
So that's just a dangerousthing that you have to
constantly reboot yourself.
Some CEOs are really good at it.
They'll fire themselves,metaphorically speaking, once a
year to try to like say, hey, ifI was a new guy coming in, like
Dean, what would I do to thiscompany?
(10:24):
So a lot of this you can doyourself, even in just a line
level jobs Like hey, I know thatwe've always been doing it this
way, but maybe we should change, because Tesla came out with
this whole new way to buildsomething and you might be in a
different industry.
So I love stealing ideas.
Vai Kumar (10:41):
So where does Dean come in then, when it comes to
that rebooting part?
How did Dean do it?
Dean Debiase (10:48):
It depends.
So in the CEO world it's prettyclear With many companies it's
unlike the one company, some ofthem are just startups, so they
don't necessarily need rebooting.
Like I'm chairman of Reveve,which is a health, beauty and
wellness SaaS company, so it'sbusiness to business type of
thing, so you're just helping onthe growth acceleration on the
(11:09):
outside.
With other companies it's likedo you need more help on the
inside?
So I tend to net things down.
You know me, there's two thingsin a company I can look at the
product roadmap inside and I canlook at the go-to-market
strategy.
Those are your two buzzwordsyou should be smart on if you're
trying to learn, because that'swhere you can help companies.
(11:30):
How do I help them become moreefficient or relevant to
consumers Right product, rightprice, or how do I get them to
market better?
And different channels,different partnerships you know
all that stuff.
So that's like the high levelthing.
But reboots in general, like ifI step in as an advisor, there's
one company I'm looking atright now and they need a core
(11:51):
reboot which is basically goingto be blending that like the
thrill and excitement andcoolness of a startup that vibe
with the discipline and rigorand exactitude of like a
turnaround.
So I just mentioned two thingsthat are totally juxtaposed.
When I tell people that they'relike there's no way you can
bring a startup and turnaroundtogether, those are like totally
(12:11):
different, and I said actuallyyou can.
That's why you want to do areboot.
You need to do it before theturnaround guy shows up, because
if the turnaround guys show up,there's companies that's only
do it's too late, you've missedyour window, and so I think
that's real important.
The short answer, though, onthat is I look at three things.
So reboots there's a really 12,but the three are most
(12:31):
important are people, platformand passion, and at any type of
reboot I've ever done or justhelped on, it always affects all
three, because you need to comein and figure out do we have
the right people doing the rightthings?
Vai Kumar (12:47):
Should we have different.
Oh, absolutely.
Dean Debiase (12:49):
That's probably the most important one, the
platform we already talked about.
Is the right product, righttime?
That's usually a no, it's offbase and the passion is not so
much what you think.
It's not everyone runningaround being excited and having
a great day.
It's if we already have theright people and we're actually
focused on the right markets.
This should be a reallyexciting opportunity to kind of
(13:10):
restart the excitement level andthe focus and the
entrepreneurialism in some casesin a small group inside a big
company.
Sometimes you start small but,yeah, I find that people,
platform, passion blend.
Vai Kumar (13:23):
If I don't touch on those three, like if there's
ever been a failure, whichusually we didn't do one of
those well, Okay, peopleplatform passion, but then
everybody like I guess you wouldhave noticed even when you walk
in they all just want growth,right?
Everyone wants growth.
So they probably don't evenlook at some of the factors that
are impeding their growth.
(13:44):
But when it comes to growth andinnovation, dean, what are some
approaches organizations canmake to shift?
Dean Debiase (13:53):
Right.
Well, it's funny because yousaid they all want growth, so
sometimes they're not ready forgrowth and we have to.
Vai Kumar (14:02):
But do they even realize that?
Do you think?
Dean Debiase (14:05):
Sometimes they don't, so we have to focus on
efficiency.
So what you're seeing right nowin the second half of the 20s
here is the big tech companiesthat bet everything on growth
are becoming more efficient.
So some of them actually needto become more efficient first
and then regrowth or restartfrom that platform.
But in terms of again, it'sreally situational.
(14:28):
But you need to look at theproduct and service mix and
figure out what needs to bechanged in order to get to that
growth level.
But three things we look atthere are we call this the three
Bs instead of the three Ps.
It's just focusing on theplatform, right, the people and
not the passion.
(14:48):
So it's a build by borrow.
So what is it that we shouldcontinue to build with?
our people, our core.
I don't care if it's software,dresses, shoes, gasoline,
whatever it is.
What are we going to buildourselves?
And let's just keep that at ourcore.
What are we going to buy,acquire whether it's an actual
company or some component thingand then what are we going to
borrow?
And the magic comes in thecombination of those three.
(15:11):
That's how at least I look atunnaturally accelerating the
growth of a company faster thanothers.
So I'll give you three examples.
So a good build example is acompany called Zoho, and Zoho is
an SMB tool that has just abouteverything you need to run your
company, and they have built itfrom scratch.
They've never required anything.
So they've got like 50 appsthat are in a suite and it's a
(15:35):
billion dollar.
Vai Kumar (15:36):
Just a build machine type of.
Dean Debiase (15:39):
They have all their own people, all their own
software, all their own AI folks.
They do partnerships but theyhaven't acquired any companies.
Then you switch to another oneor who's done a buying or maybe
too much buying.
So these are examples.
These are the two extremes.
So Google really, if you lookat their core innovation, they
haven't really built much.
They've acquired most of theirsuccessful things except for
(15:59):
their ad business.
But even there they acquired alot of companies in the early
days.
You know YouTube was anacquisition.
So they really haven't beenthat great at organic innovation
, where Zoho is just at theoption extreme or are they right
or wrong?
No, but that's just where theirDNA was.
So when you bring in the thirdcomponent, which is borrowing,
without getting too boring here,you know that's the magic of
(16:22):
hey, if you're really good atbuilding, let's do more
borrowing.
If you're really good atacquiring companies, let's
figure out how do we evenempower our own people or
actually start doing morepartnerships.
So I'm trying to think of acouple of examples for you on
borrowing.
So product partnerships, right,an old one might be Apple and
Nike coming together, for youknow, the first kind of you know
(16:43):
, connected kind of a sneakershoe a go to market example.
More channel stuff is like aSherman Williams once partnered
up with pottery barns likeyou're you know, buying your
shopping for your home?
Why aren't you talking aboutcolors and paint?
It was like low levelpartnerships, but the real good
partnership, not low level, butthat didn't totally change the
(17:04):
trajectory of the company.
But if you do this right andyou get really good at borrowing
most companies aren't.
It's hard you can change thetrajectory and growth of the
company versus just, you know,getting bigger at what you're
doing.
So that's that's how we came upwith the whole, you know,
dancing with startups program.
Vai Kumar (17:23):
It's part of the part of the?
Okay, so I was just going toask you about that.
So how does that, is that morebeneficial for like a
solopreneur or, like you know,entrepreneur?
Just, you know, kind of tryingto just figure their strategy,
you know, and then, kind of, youknow, just get their grounding,
(17:47):
or do you think it can also,kind of, you know, borrowing
examples from that or borrowingsome facets of that program is
kind of how you also help someof these large corporations need
.
Dean Debiase (18:01):
That's actually how it was invented years ago.
Came up with the dancing withstartups program while I was
teaching at Kellogg,northwestern, and it was
designed for the BFSs the bigfat, slow multi-nations to help
them literally dance withstartups, not just buy them.
Again, this could be a, youknow, a two hour talk, but how
(18:22):
do you actually start slowlydancing with them to affect your
trajectory and affect yourculture and affect your growth
and affect whatever?
Vai Kumar (18:31):
Some of them and is right, some of the mergers and
acquisitions and all of that.
Dean Debiase (18:35):
And that was that's usually the last choice.
So there's there's there's fourthings we help them with.
These are big companies and youcan flip it and do it.
Entrepreneurs can do the samething, but in reverse.
So there's a there's fourthings that big companies can do
.
To be March, but I'll dancewith startups.
There's actually way more, butthe four that we find most
useful are basically enablingyour current employees to become
(18:59):
more entrepreneurial and givingthem the tools for actually
hiring new people.
But they're, but they'rebasically full-time employees
around payroll.
They're not.
They don't have much to do withthe entrepreneur of the
ecosystem and some companieshave done that well.
Others have, you know, notnecessarily given them the
freedom or the latitude, or theydon't really have the skill
sets to go start up somethingnew inside a big company.
(19:21):
You know which I told you.
That's how I started out as akid.
I was one of the youngestmanaging directors at FedEx and
I was just lucky enough to getthat opportunity.
So they need to give peoplemore opportunities, like I had
to start things, whatever it is,could be a product, could be
anything.
It doesn't have to be a bigventure.
So that's essentially enablingwho you have.
The second one is embeddingentrepreneurs inside your
(19:43):
company.
So this is going out andbringing more entrepreneurial
talent into the company.
So that's, whether you'reyou're involved in an
accelerator or an incubator or,like Disney, partnered up with
Techstars years ago to try tofind different types of
companies that they couldpartner with, but this is more
bringing.
Like you said, soloentrepreneurs need to come into
(20:03):
large corporations to to helpthem be a part of it or blending
them together somehow.
The third one is my favorite.
We call it separating.
So separating from themothership is all in a four
square, if you could imagine it.
And that actually is setting upbigger ventures where you're
giving these people.
I've done three or four ofthese back in my large company
(20:26):
days where you take, you know,you start a new venture,
typically in a differentbuilding, different location,
and you set up an entirelyseparate culture that can start
new ventures and new companies.
And that's the most successfulones I've had in large
corporations back when I was akid.
Was is when we actuallyseparated from the mothership
without letting, like you know,the numbers guys are, the CFOs
(20:49):
restrict you.
You need to actually let themodel play out so you can't just
be on, like you know, a part ofa floor, you know, with some
cool stuff hanging from theceiling.
It actually needs to be real.
And if you can do any one ofthose three, the last one is
just engaging with the globalentrepreneurial systems.
You dance, you're doing allthese at once and most companies
(21:11):
try to jump to that right away,without trying to do the first
three, which is embedding,enabling and separating from the
mothership.
So to you know, to answer yourquestion, the other reverse is
what we came up with later.
It's like okay, now we helpmaybe a hundred companies, big,
huge, bfs is how do startups andentrepreneurs deploy this model
(21:33):
?
Well, they already were,because all of the deals that we
helped a large corporationswith, they were all the startups
, solo entrepreneurs, peoplelike you, that were brought in
or partnered or acquired, builtby borrow, with some of the
largest companies in the world,like Exxalon, whirlpool.
There's dozens of them that usethis as a way to become more
entrepreneurial and get a growthtrack going.
(21:55):
So you know, a decade later,it's helped.
And what you'll see, though, adecade later, or almost two
decades now, you know everyone'sdoing this for companies.
Now there's been a lot of falsestarts, so it's not for the
faint of heart.
It doesn't work in some bigcompanies.
Sometimes you know a lot oflunchmars will come in and new
general manager will show up orCEO, and next thing you know the
(22:17):
program is cut.
So you have to go into theserelationships with pretty thick
skin.
Vai Kumar (22:25):
And before we jump on to some of the personal
challenges you have encounteredin the process and all of that,
Dean, what?
And also focusing on the nextgeneration of work, again AI
taking center stage.
Now, right, so AI andsustainability and several other
(22:46):
, you know.
Where do you see AI coming intothe picture, predominantly in
terms of businesses?
You know can go from this pointon.
Dean Debiase (22:59):
Yes.
So, whether it's business,government, universities,
organizations and just anybody,ai is going to totally turn your
industry upside down.
But comments like that are veryhelpful.
I've been involved in AIcompanies for 10 years.
One of them is Revive.
They are one of the first skindiagnostic companies to help you
know brands and retailers.
Vai Kumar (23:20):
And doing bespoke services right, based on all the
data.
Dean Debiase (23:24):
You take a piece of it right and then you use it
to start a new company or a newservice.
So so you know the short answerlet me give you a short answer,
because the long one's too longand it is, but it's very
important is like don't beworried about AI taking your job
away.
I tell people be more worriedabout someone like Vi, who's
(23:45):
going to become AI enabled.
She's going to learn enoughtools using AI to make her more
productive, smarter, betteremployee, and I'm going to hire
her over you.
So you should be worried aboutsomeone who's actually
leveraging AI and they're goingto bid you on a job, because
people like me will say, boy, Ican get things done three times
as fast as the other, or theyhave new capability, skill that
(24:06):
we haven't even invented yet.
So that's one.
And the second one is you know,just be a lifelong learner and
AI is just one new thing.
Don't get.
Don't get stuck on just the onenew thing, because if you did,
you'd be stuck on metaverse froma couple of years ago.
Vai Kumar (24:20):
And again.
Dean Debiase (24:21):
That again didn't go very far, so I think it you
know.
Just those are the two things.
You don't need to know how itworks and you don't need to
worry about it putting it out ofbusiness.
You need to use it as anenabler so you're more
competitive in the marketplace,whether they're going to be in a
big company, a small company orgoing to be a solopreneur.
Vai Kumar (24:41):
Yeah, a lot of applications right, optimized
and sustainable logistics forcompany.
A lot of the data analysis isgoing to help them in several
different ways.
You know, including you knowRight.
Dean Debiase (24:56):
And whether I just didn't want to go into all that
because there's so manyindustry applications.
I think the message for yourfolks is so important for their
career.
They're going to learn newskill sets that will do two
things going to change theircapabilities.
I'll use you as an example.
You know you've learned a lotof things in the last year that
you probably are more productivethan used to be I wish I could
(25:16):
say that about myself, but gottoo much going on and it can
also help them change theirtrajectory, their career and
their whole industry.
That's how useful it can be,but just don't get stuck in it.
Vai Kumar (25:30):
Yeah, don't get caught down by it, but just add
it as a piece of the puzzle interms of the learning agenda,
right?
Dean Debiase (25:38):
Right.
Vai Kumar (25:39):
Yes, and in the road ahead, dean, what should people
do to better prepare themselvesfor the next generation of work?
Dean Debiase (25:50):
This is my favorite topic, actually working
on a book about this called theReboot.
It's a three series one.
So the first one is aboutrebooting yourself.
The next one is aboutorganizations.
It's going to go on and on, butthere's like a three part
question.
It's like what can you do andwhat kind of roles are there out
there?
But I think the biggest if I hadto take it up to a high level
(26:14):
is you need to learn the powerof and A and D, both inside your
organization and outside yourorganization, whatever the
organization is.
But let's assume you might workfor a big company or something.
And then you need to look atthe ecosystem out there.
There's basically three buckets.
There's huge I'll just callthem XL organizations very large
(26:36):
organizations public, private,government, university, doesn't
matter.
There's extra smallorganizations, everything from
startups to scale-ups to justbeing a family on businesses
that have been there a hundredyears.
And then there's just to use ato coin a trendy term.
There's the gig economy, so Icall them gigsters.
That'll change, we'll keepcalling it new things.
(26:56):
The freelancers, whatever.
You need to be able to dance inall three of those in the
future, and I know that soundsoverwhelming.
So what I teach a lot of mystudents and even executives is
you need to do your day job.
And one other thing In yourcompany.
We'll get to the outside, butinside your company you need to
(27:17):
do your day job.
You're the director ofe-commerce or your product
manager and you need to figureout a new role in your company.
So I basically lay out five orsix roles that they can take on,
and these are really focused ongrowth and innovation.
So they're or efficiency, sothey're very self-serving about
how do you help your companyoutside of your current role.
(27:39):
So if you want to do the powerof and many people choose to do
it inside their company, Iactually coach people to do
something outside your companybecause it prepares you for the
future.
I don't have time to go into it.
But inside your company,there's four roles I talk about.
There's basically, you know,scouting, planners, builders and
sustainers, and those are rolesthat it's not in your job
(28:02):
description.
You're just doing it on theside.
You know, maybe you're lettingpeople know, but you're kind of
scouting for the next thing thatthey could be involved in or do
, or partners.
You're planning it, figuringout how do we actually build
this venture.
That's usually more of a jobthat they offer you, but
learning that planning skill,it's like, yeah, I know we want
to get into this, but here's away to do it.
It's like we could actuallypartner with these guys.
We don't have to hire 100 people.
(28:23):
Builders are the ones that areactually going to build it.
So those are thoseentrepreneurs inside the big
companies that are needed.
And then the last one is youget older.
You're going to become asustainer inside a company.
You don't have to be olderanymore, but just you have a
higher level of job and you havemore influence and you can help
all these people keep thismovement going, whatever it is,
(28:43):
because movements and companiesusually trickle up.
They do well and then newperson comes in, from CEO to a
manager, and they stop it, andit's important for the
sustainers to keep that going.
Vai Kumar (28:56):
But do you see this gig economy taking more
precedence, more of a choicewhen it comes to employment, or
like the traditional careerroute?
Dean Debiase (29:07):
So that was inside the company.
I'll start.
You know how do you deploy thepower of and outside your
company?
So, first of all, yes, the thegig economy.
Let's just call themfreelancers, you call them
solopreneurs 20 different words.
There's 1.5 billion people inthe workforce that are
self-employed.
That's like 40, over 45% of theglobal workforce.
(29:31):
That's a shocker, it's just ashocking number.
And that number, so we, youknow, when our parents were like
in charge, that was a very lownumber.
It was a lot of smallbusinesses, but there's never
been a better opportunity to dosomething on your own.
So, so no, I don't think it'sgoing to go away.
The important thing and thepower of and is what do you do
(29:51):
outside your company?
So you got your day job, youwork for a company, maybe you're
doing your own thing, but whatelse could you be doing?
So it could be anything fromvolunteering to doing something
that is actually preparing youfor the next move, whether it's,
you know, learning, educationor actually just working in
another venture.
For many of my corporate I'llcall them students I often tell
(30:16):
them fine, keep your job at KPMG.
But also, you know, volunteerhere at 1871, one of our
incubators in Chicago, or with astartup or whatever.
Don't worry about getting paid,but figure out a way where you
can actually do something elsethat's not too conflicting with
your current job.
That is either providing youwith a lot of joy or actually
preparing you for the nextgeneration.
(30:37):
And the important thing to yourdirect question is what is the
next generation?
It's being able to dance inthat XL, xs, extra small, extra
large, gig economy job.
Those three things are more andmore intertwined and your
career trajectory will be morehybrid, just like mine was.
I never had these opportunitieswhere you might start out as a
(30:59):
startup and go to a bigcorporation and start your own
thing.
You might start out whereyou're doing your startup, then
you go to a small companybecause it's you know, it's just
a natural thing to do, and thenyou ended up a big company.
Many of the people now are likethey're stuck at these big
companies and they're trying toget out of them and they're not
ill-equipped to move to the youknow, small startups or to you
(31:21):
know, their own venture.
So you're starting your owncompany or just being a
solopreneur.
So understanding all three ofthose.
Again, there's more, but tryingto keep it simple, it's a
global economy where you cankind of dance in all three of
them and it does prepare you for, you know, right now a lot of
companies are going throughlayoffs, where the people that
have done this they're moreprepared to be gigsters and
(31:43):
start out on their own and, youknow, create a small business.
Others still want the safety ofthe next big one, but they may
hang out a while in theentrepreneurial space while they
, you know, try to find theirnext big job.
Vai Kumar (31:54):
Is that the best route, then, to kind of finding
purpose and what they do, dean,because a lot of times I think
people get bogged down andfrustrated with what they do and
maybe some, you know, they getstuck for lack of better word
and I get stuck, I totally getit it goes to the point that it
(32:16):
starts to even impact mentalhealth, right?
So?
Dean Debiase (32:19):
it does.
So you mentioned purpose and Ifind that finding your purpose
is critical.
It's critical to, like you said, your physical health, your
mental health, your happiness,and there's a lot of consultants
and diagrams out there that'llshow you.
This just brings all thesethings together.
(32:40):
I'm drawing a circle for thoseof you not on the video feed and
they say purpose is in themiddle.
So I'll show that slide first.
And I said this is a trap.
Don't ever think purpose is inthe middle of all these
beautiful things, because noneof us can do all those things at
once.
Purpose is a very fleeting,situational moment that you just
have to create yourself andlife occasionally or with people
(33:03):
.
There might be something by andI do as a project or a venture,
or maybe I'm finding it rightnow, just recording this podcast
with it and most people thinkpurpose is like I have to have
it all the time.
So I basically it took me awhile to get to this I used to
make decisions.
Where you asked me before howdo I make decisions?
It was like can I make moneyand is it fun?
(33:24):
And if I could check both ofthose boxes when I was younger,
I would just do it.
I wasn't very picky Might it beboth boxes, though and then I
realized later in my lifesomething was missing.
There was no purpose.
It was whatever.
It was just anything from likeupsetness to sadness to
depression.
You're just like, oh, I'm doingthis, working.
(33:45):
So I added a third one to themix, kind of accidentally.
So I added impact.
So the way I make decisions nowis fun, money and impact, and
if you put those three togetherand any graphic that you like,
now I only have to check two ofthose, not both, but if I can
check two, I'm pretty happy withit.
So if you take fun, money andimpact and put them together,
it's the connected tissue againBetween the three is where I
(34:09):
find purpose.
So I'm like, hey, there's a jobhere, it's fun, but there's not
a lot of money.
That's probably a startup.
Should I do it?
Yeah, I think I'm gonna do it.
Should I do something forimpact and money?
I'm like, well, that's thehardest thing to find For me.
It's public speaking.
It's like you get paid, you'remotivating an audience, it's
nice.
Most of them are like they'reimpact, but they're not a lot of
(34:31):
money.
That's like volunteering at anorganization, whether it's
anything from your church to abusiness group, so you can do
all these combinations.
Vai Kumar (34:41):
What I've found mistakenly is I'll keep your
passion and find your truecalling right.
Dean Debiase (34:48):
Yeah, but it's situational.
It's like.
That's why the power of and isso important Because your fun,
money and impact will bedifferent from everything you do
.
So there's some things that youjust need to give up on and say
I'm not doing this for money,I'm doing this for fun and
impact.
There's other things whereyou're saying it's my day job,
I'm doing this for money, I'mactually not having any fun, but
(35:10):
I'm gonna tolerate it a littlebit longer because I have a
couple other things going onthat do bring me joy and passion
and purpose.
The trap, I was saying, is, ifyou try to bring all that
together on your day to day jobevery day, it's basically
demotivating.
It's too hard to do.
So you give yourself a breakand create situations where you
(35:30):
can find a little passion andpurpose situationally, either
day by day, or project byproject or company by company.
Gotcha.
Vai Kumar (35:40):
So what about any personal challenge or career
advice if you will Dean for ouraudience and all about
everything else that?
That's on the cards for DeanDePiers.
Dean Debiase (35:54):
Yeah, I mean I have no shortage of personal
challenges.
I mean, everything I justdescribed has been a lot of fits
and starts and learning curvesalong the way, and that's why,
you know, just try to helppeople learn from that, figure
out.
You know, how do I learn fromother people's?
Not so much mistakes butdifferent, hybrid versions of
(36:15):
themselves.
So you have to, um, my biggestone was, oh boy, moving to
Silicon Valley.
So when I had this you knowencounter with Steve Jobs and
decided to quit my prettysuccessful corporate career I
was doing really well in Chicagoand moved my family out to
Silicon Valley, I was, you know,I took my first flight out
(36:36):
there, been there a lot ofbusiness, so I loved it and I
felt I landed and had my firstmeeting and I instantly felt,
wait a minute.
In Chicago in my corporate lifeI was this young whippersnapper
, you know whiz kid, and somehow, as I flew out to California,
four hours later I was like theoldest guy in the room and I was
(36:58):
only so you were a differentperson.
I was only 30.
Now it's just like everyone wasso young in Silicon Valley and
in Chicago.
Everyone was still, you know, Iwas the young one and they were
all the old people stillwearing suits and yeah.
So I just like instantly it allchanged, which was very strange
to me.
But the toughest challenge wasnot that, obviously it it.
(37:20):
It was a little bit, but it wasokay.
A you need to be moreentrepreneurial.
B you're in charge.
You're not like the VP ofproduct, you're the CEO of the
Imagination Network, the largestgames company in the world,
which was currently run by AT&T.
And I quickly figured out, youknow.
So here I am on the, you know,a CEO of a subsidiary of one of
(37:44):
the world's largest corporations, one of the first companies on
the stock exchange in the US,and I quickly figured out that
they had bought the company forthe wrong reason and probably
hired me for the wrong reason,and we spent the next two years,
you know, rebooting the company, getting it switched over to
two different platforms andMicrosoft 95 was coming on, all
(38:07):
that.
So it was a triple challenge of, you know, wrong people, wrong
owners, maybe the wrong time,and they were pretty far behind.
So it was.
It was a.
It was a you questionyourselves in the middle of a
meeting at 2 am in the morning,when the servers are down and
things aren't working anyway.
So we ended up I didn't know itwas going to be a reboot.
(38:29):
So this is where I kind of gotthe the the reboot skills on
your own, where you're notreally protected by anything.
But we quickly figured out whoowned us didn't really shouldn't
own the company, so we had todivest the company from AT&T and
sell it to you know whoever whowas interested at time, as
Microsoft and AOL.
We ended up becoming the AOLgames channel, which was just
(38:51):
nirvana.
We went from being this youknow company we're not sure
where it should fit again likeit's game company out there to
AOL, which was like, oh my gosh,we're so glad you're here.
So bad situation turned into agood.
But yeah, be careful what youask for and do your due
diligence.
As I said before that thatwhole all the things I said
about you know, right place,right time, right people is is
(39:15):
important and the only otheradvice I would give is just go
back to the power of and what isit that I'm doing?
That maybe isn't giving mepurpose or passion or whatever,
but understand that's fleeting.
You can still work through that.
But what else should I be doingright now instead of going to I
hate to say the gym, butinstead of going to all the
normal things you do, you couldcarve out one or two hours a day
(39:37):
to do so many things, includingjust using your computer to
learn a new skill like AI, orhelping out a startup, or, if
you're out of startup, doingsomething different.
But you need to have multipleskill sets.
Vai Kumar (39:50):
So the for the revolutionary times ahead in
business, which is going to be,you know, moving between large
companies, small companies,entrepreneurial ventures,
teaching or nothing for time foryeah, like you said, yeah, pro
bono, offer your skills pro bonoand then, kind of you know,
that's definitely going to offermore learning opportunities and
and definitely the power of andis just amplified right there,
(40:14):
correct?
Dean Debiase (40:15):
yeah it's.
It's helped a lot of mystudents.
But what I've noticed is it'shelping a lot of mid-career
people because they're stuck.
So whether you're thinkingabout joining a big company
coming out of school or you'restuck in one right now either
one you should be doing twothings.
Don't just take the job andjust say, yep, I got this new
job, I'm going 100%, it's likethat's cool, go 90 and then
(40:37):
spend the other, because 100% ofyour time is 25 hours a day.
So do your job, but do a coupleother things and goodness is it
, can be anything you wantfantastic.
Vai Kumar (40:47):
Thank you so much for taking the time today to talk
to us, dean, and so what'scoming?
What can people look forward towith Dean DeBuyas?
Dean Debiase (40:55):
with me.
Oh, just, I am working on a newbook, the reboot.
That always takes well, butjust out on a speaking tour now
talking about it and so speakingand writing.
So check out our podcast.
The reboot chronicles.
It's great stories from CEOsthat I'm pretty good at getting
(41:15):
them to open up and tell theirstories.
That helps us personally as, asyou know, career-minded folks
or just personal passion typesof stuff.
The book is really there tohelp on what we just touched on,
which is like how do you planand how do you prepare yourself
for the revolutionary businessdecade ahead and so that you're
(41:36):
kind of on top of things, notjust reacting but actually being
proactive and having moreoptions and we call it
optionality in the book foryourself and your own career, so
that and you know, just tryingto keep doing what I'm doing,
which is every decision I make.
It's like fun, money and impact.
I have to always remember tocome back to that and kind of
(41:56):
plan things out quarter toquarter.
Don't get stuck in.
Hey, every year, every DecemberI look at the year and I plan
it out and then by February I'vefailed, it's like you know.
So every couple months you wantto kind of come back to the
drawing board and re-architectwhere you're going.
It sounds a little overwhelming, but my best advice is have
some fun with it.
So that's what I'm doingperfect.
Vai Kumar (42:18):
So such wonderful nuggets there for sustenance of
work and for, you know, everyonethere thinking about the next
generation of work.
Thank you so much, dean, fortaking time to talk to us today
and wishing you the best.
With the podcast and speakingof the power of, and I've had
the pleasure of working withDean DePiers on his podcast, the
(42:40):
reboot Chronicles, so that hashelped me.
That has helped me learn a lot.
That has helped me put a lot ofthings into perspective, aside
from doing this freshleafforever podcast, and it's not
just podcasting, but it's a lotof business strategy that I've
got to work with Dean on and doa lot of writing and and content
(43:03):
creation and strategizing.
So thank you for thatopportunity, dean, and look
forward to having many morewonderful conversations.
Dean Debiase (43:12):
Thanks Vy, good to see you.
Vai Kumar (43:13):
Listeners, as always, follow the podcast, rate the
podcast and leave a review fromyour podcast app of choice.
Follow me on Instagram andYouTube at vaipkumar.
That's v-a-i-p-k-u-m-a-r forall things digital media and
lifestyle.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
(43:34):
yet another interesting topic.
It's me Vai, along with thewonderful Dean, saying so long.
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