December 11, 2024 • 26 mins
In this episode, our guest Dr.Micah Yu walks us through how anyone can build their gut microbiome, to feel healthier.
We had sat down earlier in the show in Season 1 and this content is a repurposed version of the full version.
Highlights from our fascinating chat -
- What helped Dr.Yu personally with his autoimmune condition
- Role of Whole Foods plant based diet
- Power of food in healing illnesses
- How fiber influences your well-being
- Beans, lectins and correct method of cooking lectins
- Gut and mind body connection, including mental health
- Role of lifestyle in overcoming illnesses
- How exercise helps ward off inflammation
and much more!
The power of fruits and vegetables, no matter what kind of diet you eat, can't be emphasized better - the power of phytonutrients and their anti-inflammatory properties is best brought about by our guest Dr.Yu.
We talk about physical well-being and mental well-being, as gut flora plays a pivotal role in one's overall mood and how physically one shows up.
We offer nuggets to reduce stress, which is a huge contributor especially in auto immune conditions.
If you are wrestling with an autoimmune condition or in general looking to eat better and live healthy, this episode is a must listen for you. More importantly, there is no one size fits all; however the science behind what is beneficial couldn't be better underscored. Tune in, listen, so you can change for the better.
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: This episode is not intended to be medical advice, nor is it a substitute for medical advice. Please consult your physician for individual case by case needs.
Start for FREE
Enjoy PIOR Living products
Enjoy PIOR Living products at a 20% discount and free shipping on orders over $75 Code FLF20
OurPlace Cookware
Shop versatile, aesthetic cookware sets/appliances from OurPlace.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Videos on YouTube channel.
Follow host Vai on socials - Instagram , YouTube, LinkedIn for thought leadership content.
Head to my website for enlightening blogs & service offerings.
This podcast comes to you from Listen Ponder Change LLC, founded by Vai Kumar.Every support the show contribution is much appreciated !!
Subscribe https://www.buzzsprout.com/1436179/support and help us amplify our voice and reach!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Freshly Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, vaikumar.
Welcome to podcast FreshlyForever folks.
And today I have the pleasureof having here with us Dr Micah
Yu.
He is an autoimmune expert.
(00:31):
He's here joining us to talkabout the diet and lifestyle
influences on autoimmunedisorders.
With his passion for learningand improving his patients'
medical problems.
With his passion for learningand improving his patients'
medical problems, he has pursuedmultiple alternative medicine
disciplines so that he can blendtraditional and alternative
medicine to give the besttreatment plans to his patients.
(00:55):
Welcome, dr Yu, to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure being on yourshow.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
With you, having experienced an autoimmune
condition.
What do you think has helpedyou the most, dr Yu, in terms of
diet, and when did you thinkyou started seeing a change?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The way I discovered Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet was
through my wife.
My wife is a doctor as well.
She's a family medicine doctorand at the residency program
that we were at at Loma LindaUniversity in California they
have a lifestyle medicineprogram, which my wife
discovered and she was learningfrom, and she introduced me to
the concept of whole foodplant-based diet.
(01:39):
So I watched some documentaries, such as Forks Over Knives,
read some books as well, so Idecided I would give it a shot
and see what this diet would doand, to my surprise, my pain
miraculously went away and Ididn't really have flares at all
when I was on this diet.
So, thank God.
That's why I'm trying to sharethis message with the world,
(02:00):
because a lot of people and alot of doctors don't know that
how powerful food can be and howfood can be very healing.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh, very true, and I have my own story with IBD and I
can certainly attest to a lotof things that you're saying,
and, of course, I'm going tolearn more from you as you speak
, and I continue to learn everysingle day in my journey with
health as well.
You focus a lot on plant-baseddiet and nutrition, and does it
(02:32):
have to be vegan, and what doyou think are some of the major
influencing factors forbetterment of autoimmune?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
health?
Yeah, that's an excellentquestion.
Um, so you don't have to bevegan to put your disease to
remission?
Um, there, there are so manytypes of anti-inflammatory diets
out there.
I like a whole food plant-baseddiet.
So a whole food, plant-baseddiet for those that you that
don't um know about it, it'spretty much going vegan, without
processed food.
That's what it is and I I've,you know, as a I've seen
(03:05):
patients not go on a whole foodplant-based diet that have gone
through remission.
Some have gone on a paleo dietthat have improved, made a
trainer diet.
Everybody's different.
What works for one persondoesn't mean it'll work for
another person.
Everyone's genetics isdifferent and their disease is
different as well.
With that said, fruits andvegetables have to be the core
(03:26):
of an anti-inflammatory dietbecause of the phytonutrients
and the fiber.
With the colors in each fruitand vegetable, you see there's a
different phytonutrient in them.
Phytonutrients aremicronutrients in these foods
that are not essential tosurvival, but they're essential
to maintaining your health andas you eat these foods, they
(03:48):
will produce ananti-inflammatory effect in your
body and it'll help your immunesystem.
That's why it's so important tofocus on these foods.
I try not to put patients intoone category for foods, I really
try to emphasize fruits andvegetables in general.
Some people don't want to bevegan, and that's totally fine.
(04:09):
I work with all types ofpatients and meet them where
they want to be met.
Some patients will eat meat.
I mean not meat, but fish.
Fish is known to beanti-inflammatory in a lot of
the rheumatology studies.
What I don't like about fish isthat there's a lot of pollution
and toxins in fish now that wedidn't have thousands of years
(04:30):
ago.
So your oil spill, yourpollution, goes into the fish.
The bigger fish eat the smallfish and then we eat the bigger
fish and then we get thatpollutants in our body.
But overall, if you're lookingat fish, apart from that, it's
pretty anti-inflammatory.
So I would say you got to eatyour fruits and vegetables and
whole grains.
Whole grains are very importantfor an anti-inflammatory diet
(04:54):
because of the fiber, but ofcourse paleo cuts out grains but
it still works for people.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And what about nuts and seeds and all the legumes
and all the beans and stuff?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Talking a lot about fiber.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah.
So nuts, seeds and beans,legumes those are very important
because they have fiber.
Also, Like you said, they havevery, very high fiber and they
have protein as well.
Your beans have high protein.
Hemp seeds have high protein aswell.
So I really like those foodproducts and I do recommend it
to my patients.
However, there are going to bepopulations that will not be
(05:30):
able to tolerate these beansbecause maybe the fiber content
is too high.
I know the paleo diet likes tocut these food groups out.
I don't recommend that.
I always recommend trying toincorporate as many food groups
as possible, trying not to betoo restrictive.
Try to incorporate as many foodgroups as possible.
Try not to be too restrictive.
Um, one of the reasons why somepeople um may react to the beans
(05:50):
like I said before, it might bethe high fiber content and
they're just very sensitive toit's not because of an allergy,
it's not because it'sinflammatory.
It's because possibly themicrobiome the gut microbiome
isn isn't adaptive to it.
Yet A lot of people withautoimmune diseases will have
something called gut dysbiosis.
So your gut microbiome consistsof over 100 trillion bacteria
(06:15):
and your gut microbiome willhave good bacteria and bad gut
bacteria and in autoimmunediseases and almost across all
of the spectrum.
You have something called gutdysbiosis.
So that means your bad gutbacteria overwhelms your good
gut bacteria.
When this happens, some of yourbacteria that might be needed
to digest certain foods mightnot be there because the gut
(06:37):
dysbiosis needs to bereplenished.
So that might be a reason whythese people might not be able
to tolerate beans and legumesand grains.
That's why people like a paleodiet more.
There is something very, verypopular these days about the
anti-lectin diet.
So lectins are found in beansand legumes and some people
(07:02):
potentially may be sensitive tothem, but when you cook them,
95% of the lectins are destroyed, so that's not even an issue.
There's no real scientificstudies out there on lectins and
inflammation.
I only found one study in thepast 10 years that have talked
about this.
Really, Maybe in the futurewe'll have more studies, but
(07:22):
right now it's overblown andit's not really built on science
and that's why it's probablyimportant to soak the beans as
well.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Correct the raw beans , you know the dry ones, yeah to
get rid of the lectins and sofor anyone listening here for
them to transition to a betterlifestyle they have heard you
loud and clear so far as far asa whole food, plant-based diet
and the beans and legumes, thefiber in general, the fruits and
(07:51):
vegetables and whatnot.
You talked about gut microbiome.
So for someone to help buildthat is probiotics, a route, or
even if they are not able todigest these beans and legumes,
maybe they shouldn't go at itjust overnight, but then start
(08:14):
small and transition.
Is that kind of like the recipefor success?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah, if you can't tolerate these foods, you
can work your way to success.
Yeah, if you can't toleratethese foods, you can work your
way to success.
Try to incorporate just alittle bit of it, just a
spoonful at a time.
Get your microbiome used tothese type of foods.
You certainly don't need totake a probiotic supplement to
improve.
There's probiotics in lots offruits and vegetables out there.
You just need to find them.
There's prebiotics in thesefoods as well.
(08:42):
So I don't recommend to mypatients to go on probiotic
supplements because they don'treally need to, but I'm
certainly not against theseprobiotic supplements.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Okay, but interestingly enough, of course,
you and I here are having aconversation on a podcast forum,
trying to just put bestmessaging out there, but this is
not to be construed as medicaladvice or substitute for
in-person medical advice.
That is something we need tomention.
But again, I stop my probioticand my IBD feels a lot better,
(09:18):
because I think it also makes mewonder there isn't probably a
universal, one size fits allapproach and there's not a
single bottle that can cater toyou and to me and to somebody
else, right?
So I have incorporated more andmore colors into my food and
all whatever you have beensuggesting.
(09:41):
Most of what you have said, Ithink you know I have definitely
found results.
So I'm completely in tune withwhat you're saying and I'm sure
this is going to be fascinatingfor the listeners.
So does gut microbiome alsoplay a role in how the body
reacts to medications and, ingeneral, your mood and
(10:04):
well-being overall?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So yeah, the gut microbiome does affect the mood.
It's so important.
You have a gut brain connection, so the gut is very important
for mental health and alsooverall it's so important to
everything.
You can't emphasize the gutmicrobiome enough.
(10:27):
So that's why food is soimportant.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Okay, you said mind-body connection there and I
know you suggest severaloptions for improving that
situation as well, like yoga,meditation, things like that
I'll have you talk about yoursocial media follow at the very
end.
But if you can tell us how onecan help achieve that and also a
(11:01):
little bit more about the roleof exercise in also helping to
build the gut microbiome ormaking the immune system strong.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, so relieving stress is so important for
immune health and to fightautoimmune disease.
You can eat so good, soanti-inflammatory, but if your
stress levels are high it'sgoing to create inflammation.
Still, you're gonna you'reprobably gonna flare if you have
chronic stress.
So there's so many techniquesyou can do out there.
Um, you can do mind, um, guidedimagery, you can do guided
(11:33):
imagery.
You can do meditation, yoga,tai chi, mindfulness, eating,
just being mindful throughoutthe day, gratitude, journaling,
coloring books and all thesedifferent things out there.
There's so much you can do forstress reduction, biofeedback,
getting a therapist, gettingover traumas Past traumas are so
(11:53):
important to get over forautoimmune disease as well.
So there's so much you can doand I learned a lot of these
techniques through my fellowshipthat I'm in right now through
the University of Arizona'sIntegrative Medicine Fellowship.
It's a two-year program and ittalks about all these different
things you can help and youdon't have to have autoimmune
disease to do these things.
You don't have to have anyillness.
(12:14):
It's very therapeutic and justto maintain one's health as well
and just going to exercise aswell.
Exercise is anti-inflammatory.
You have to exercise.
It attacks the reactive oxygenspecies.
It's a natural way for yourbody's immune system to get
stronger.
So if you can't walk, thenstretch.
(12:34):
If you can't run, then justwalk.
But any type of movement isvery helpful.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And every small bucket of time that one can find
I seem to read a lot aboutthose kind of things these days
suggested by doctors Every smallbit that one can do like five
minute, 10 minute intervals, allthose are helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Correct, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay, something is better than nothing, definitely.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, okay, and.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I know you have like a quick breathing technique that
you try to teach people likethe four, seven, eight.
Would you tell the listenersabout it here?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, you can do this throughout the day as many
times as you want.
So this brings you back tomindfulness.
So what you do is you breathein for four seconds and then you
hold it for seven seconds andyou exhale for eight seconds,
and I like doing this.
It just helps me focus on mybreath.
If I'm really stressed abouteverything else, if I'm focused
(13:35):
on my breath, I can't think ofanything else.
Some people also like to do the5-5-5 technique.
So instead of doing 4 seconds,7 seconds, 8 seconds, they'll do
5 seconds of breathing in,holding it and then breathing
out as well, and this can helpwith anxiety, depression and so
many things.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Maybe even improving sleep as well.
Right Like being able to fallasleep and does the longer
exhalation like make you likemore grounded?
Is that why the eight in there?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I'm not sure.
Yeah, that's a great question.
I mean, when I do the eightseconds, it really makes me
focus on the eight, because ittakes a long time to get to
eight seconds.
So it just makes you more awareof the situation.
That's why I like the eightseconds.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And just to touch back a little bit on the fruits
and vegetables and the wholefood plant-based diet is it
important for someone to eat,necessarily organic?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, that's an excellent question.
So the reason why I recommendorganic is because of if you
don't eat organic, you'll getsomething called glyphosate,
which is a pesticide, and it's abreakdown of the pesticide.
So you get glyphosate and thatends up in our fruits and
vegetables.
And the glyphosate has beenassociated with the leaky gut,
(15:00):
so it does affect the gutmicrobiome.
But you certainly don't need toeat organic in order to get
better.
I think the important takeawayhere is to eat your fruits and
vegetables, whether they'reorganic or non-organic.
Just get them in.
If you can't afford it, theneat organic.
Glyphosate is an environmentaltoxin that I try to stay away
(15:20):
from.
But at home I mean if the priceis right, then I'll get organic
, but I mean sometimes organicis too expensive on that
particular day in the grocerystore.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Mm-hmm, and in those cases also, I think from my own
personal experience.
I just would like to share thatgrowing our own fruits and
vegetables whatever possible,even in like small container
garden type of situations.
I think that helps to at leastgive us peace of mind that what
(15:52):
you're eating is not pesticideladen.
Plus, it also helps connectwith nature, with the ground,
you know when we are out andabout gardening.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Exactly Playing with the soil and all that stuff.
Yeah, I agree with youcompletely.
I think growing food in yourbackyard and your yard is the
best because you know exactlywhat's going in it.
Because even if something'scalled organic, it can still
have glyphosate and thesepesticides on them.
That doesn't really mean it'spesticide 300%, because if
(16:23):
they're growing well, one sideof the farm is organic, the
other side of the farm is notorganic.
The wind can blow all thepesticide over to the other side
.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And being connected with nature, the skin is also a
source to build microbiome.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, okay, okay.
Having talked about all this,let's just talk about some of
the inflammatory markers thatyou said you typically check.
Can you tell listeners what CRPis, what ESR is, and how
important is it for someone tohave their doctor check these if
(17:00):
they experience aches and painsthat seem to be indicative of
inflammation?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, so C-reactive protein and ESR, which is
sedimentation rate, are twoinflammatory markers we
frequently get in medicine.
C-reactive protein is producedby the liver and sedimentation
rate is just talking about howthe red blood cells flow down in
(17:27):
the test tube and the rate ofit will help tell us whether
there's a lot of inflammation ornot.
However, these inflammationmarkers are not 100% accurate
all the time.
It doesn't mean that justbecause it's negative doesn't
mean that you don't haveinflammation in your body.
They're just biomarkers.
I've certainly seen patientsflare right in front of me with
normal C-reactive protein andESR, so it's just something nice
(17:47):
to get, but it doesn't tell methe complete picture.
And your ESR-CRP can go withautoimmune disease, but it can
also go with infection, can gowith cancer and it can even go
with being obese as well.
So there's so many reasons whyESR-CRP will go up and you
really have to have the overallclinical picture of the doctor
(18:08):
and the judgment of the doctorto determine whether this is
significant or not.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, having said that, if this is significant or
not.
Okay, having said that, do youbelieve that these markers can
shift periodically based on whatsomeone eats or how they carry
on their lifestyle?
Can say, any of these factors,like food or meditation or
anything else, exercise, have apositive effect on these markers
(18:33):
?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh yeah, definitely.
I've seen patients who eatanti-inflammatory diet and their
markers start going down.
There's a really big study outthere off the NHANES data that I
think.
They observed patients over10-20 years and they found that
the higher amount of fiber youate, the lower the C-reactive
(18:56):
protein of the population aswell.
So definitely food plays a hugerole and stress reduction does
as well.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh wonderful.
What about gluten, doctor?
Is it something that you tellpatients to avoid, or is it okay
for certain people to be eatinggluten and certain others not?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So gluten in medicine mainly affects celiac disease
patients.
So if you have celiac disease,you cannot tolerate gluten
because of an antibody.
It will affect the smallmarcovilli in your small
intestine and so there's acouple of groups out there.
There's the celiac diseasegroup and then you have your
non-celiac gluten sensitivitygroup.
(19:39):
So these patients do not haveceliac disease, but the gluten
does affect them and somepatients do have a wheat problem
as well.
With that said, gluten canpotentially affect patients with
autoimmune diseases.
The reason why I say that isbecause when you eat gluten
there's Dr Fasano from Harvard.
He discovered this that glutendoes produce the leaky gut.
(20:01):
So when you eat gluten it canopen up the little cells, up the
tight junctures.
Each cell is connected to eachother very tightly.
When you eat gluten it willopen up the cells, the tight
junctions a little bit, so smallfood particles, viruses and
these things can flow throughand then interact with the
immune system.
However, I don't think we havethe full story here, because
(20:26):
gluten can affect immune disease.
But I have a lot of patientswho eat gluten that have gone to
remission.
I eat gluten and most of thetime I'm pain-free.
So I think we need moreresearch on it, but certainly
gluten is one of the factors Ilook at when a patient comes to
me.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay, maybe worth a try, but not necessarily
something to avoid altogether,if it works.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Exactly Because if you are avoiding gluten, it's
heavier on your pocket, andavoiding gluten doesn't mean the
food's healthier.
Studies have shown that peoplethat eat gluten are generally
healthier in the populationbecause they're not restricted
to the certain foods that theyneed to eat.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, we referenced paleo diet earlier and all of
that and say there's Atkins diet.
There's so many different typesof diet.
Do you think any of these arelike a tailor-made approach for
anyone?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So I would say so.
You're going to hear storiesthat people on the keto diet get
better.
I don't on the keto diet getbetter.
I don't recommend the keto dietbecause there's so many
complications that can happenfrom this.
I mean, heart disease is one ofthe top killers of the world
and also with lupus patients,one of the top killers is heart
(21:44):
disease.
Rheumatoid arthritis is heartdisease as well.
One of the top killers is heartdisease.
Rheumatoid arthritis is heartdisease as well.
So if you get better on a ketodiet, you're missing out on the
fruits.
A lot of fruits havephytonutrients in them and
potentially, if you don't eatvegetables too, the refined
carbohydrates can be so healthyfor patients.
So that's why I don't recommendthe keto diet.
(22:06):
All the saturated fat I don'tthink it's leading to any good
out there.
And for the paleo diet I mean Idon't recommend the paleo diet
if a patient doesn't need to cutup grains because, like I said,
grains are very healthy.
I mean you're cutting outquinoa, rice, beans and all
(22:29):
these things that can be very,very therapeutic for patients
and sometimes it's a mentalblock.
If you can't eat these foods,it can be very stressful as well
.
Not everyone needs to cut outthese foods to get better.
So I think everyone'smicrobiome is different, but
because they have a diseasealready, their microbiome is out
(22:51):
of balance.
That's why certain diets workbetter for certain people.
But I think once theirmicrobiome is restored, you can
certainly introduce these foodsback into your system.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Can someone not realize that they are even
stressed?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Can someone not realize that they are even
stressed.
Oh yeah, definitely.
I think if you're not mindful,if you're used to such a high
stress level already sometimesyour high stress level is your
norm and you don't realize yourstress.
And chronic stress isunfortunately one of the root
causes of autoimmune disease.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Okay, and you were on an Atkins diet earlier, when
you were a football player,because you felt like you needed
protein.
What's your message to someonethat says athletes need animal
protein to thrive?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, so you certainly don't need it.
There's a lot of athletes nowprofessional athletes that are
on a plant-based diet that arethriving.
I think there was a documentarythe Game Changers.
The Tennessee Titans were onthat documentary.
They're a football team and alot of the athletes on there
were eating a plant-based dietand they were doing very well.
So it's something that oursociety has to get over, but you
(24:01):
don't need an animal protein tobuild muscle.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay and yeah, you had your story there in terms of
okay, you just ended up eatinga whole lot of protein, but then
you didn't focus on your plantsor your fruits and vegetables,
and that was initially when youfelt all that inflammation also
correct in your life.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Okay.
So on the flip side, cansomeone be vegan and have an
energetic and vibrant lifestyle?
Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, you can certainly be vegan and have a
very vibrant life being vegan.
You just have to be.
You can get all the protein.
There's a lot of differentamino acids out there.
Not every fruit and vegetableand grain will have all the um
amino acids you need for yourprotein.
But if you eat all thecombinations eat the rainbow,
(24:55):
everything you can certainly getall the amino acids you need.
So it's a myth that, um, youcan't get enough protein when
you're um vegan and being vegan,um, you're going to eat a lot
of fiber, so fiber is veryanti-inflammatory.
It's good for the immune system.
So there is certainly nodrawback to being vegan.
But not everyone can be veganand it's everyone's a little bit
(25:16):
different in their geneticmakeup.
Some people say they don't feelas well when they're vegan, and
I certainly believe it.
So you can, but the main pointhere is still eat your fruits
and vegetables.
That's the main thing for everytype of diet.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, so I think you have emphasized it very nicely.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us today,
and I really appreciate youtaking the time to do it here on
Podcast Freshly Forever.
Thank you so much, dr Yu.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Thank you, Vi.
It's been a pleasure to be onyour show forever.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Thank you so much, dr Yu.
Thank you, vaai.
It's been a pleasure to be onyour show.
Listeners, as always, followthe podcast, rate the podcast
and leave a review from yourpodcast app of choice.
Follow me on Instagram andYouTube at Vaai P Kumar.
That's V-A-I-P-K-U-M-A-R forall things digital media and
(26:08):
lifestyle.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me Vi saying so long.
Welcome to Freshly Forever, a podcast that gives
you fascinating insights weekafter week.
Here's your host, vaikumar.
Welcome to podcast FreshlyForever folks.
And today I have the pleasureof having here with us Dr Micah
Yu.
He is an autoimmune expert.
(00:31):
He's here joining us to talkabout the diet and lifestyle
influences on autoimmunedisorders.
With his passion for learningand improving his patients'
medical problems.
With his passion for learningand improving his patients'
medical problems, he has pursuedmultiple alternative medicine
disciplines so that he can blendtraditional and alternative
medicine to give the besttreatment plans to his patients.
(00:55):
Welcome, dr Yu, to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
It's a pleasure being on yourshow.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
With you, having experienced an autoimmune
condition.
What do you think has helpedyou the most, dr Yu, in terms of
diet, and when did you thinkyou started seeing a change?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
The way I discovered Whole Foods Plant-Based Diet was
through my wife.
My wife is a doctor as well.
She's a family medicine doctorand at the residency program
that we were at at Loma LindaUniversity in California they
have a lifestyle medicineprogram, which my wife
discovered and she was learningfrom, and she introduced me to
the concept of whole foodplant-based diet.
(01:39):
So I watched some documentaries, such as Forks Over Knives,
read some books as well, so Idecided I would give it a shot
and see what this diet would doand, to my surprise, my pain
miraculously went away and Ididn't really have flares at all
when I was on this diet.
So, thank God.
That's why I'm trying to sharethis message with the world,
(02:00):
because a lot of people and alot of doctors don't know that
how powerful food can be and howfood can be very healing.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Oh, very true, and I have my own story with IBD and I
can certainly attest to a lotof things that you're saying,
and, of course, I'm going tolearn more from you as you speak
, and I continue to learn everysingle day in my journey with
health as well.
You focus a lot on plant-baseddiet and nutrition, and does it
(02:32):
have to be vegan, and what doyou think are some of the major
influencing factors forbetterment of autoimmune?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
health?
Yeah, that's an excellentquestion.
Um, so you don't have to bevegan to put your disease to
remission?
Um, there, there are so manytypes of anti-inflammatory diets
out there.
I like a whole food plant-baseddiet.
So a whole food, plant-baseddiet for those that you that
don't um know about it, it'spretty much going vegan, without
processed food.
That's what it is and I I've,you know, as a I've seen
(03:05):
patients not go on a whole foodplant-based diet that have gone
through remission.
Some have gone on a paleo dietthat have improved, made a
trainer diet.
Everybody's different.
What works for one persondoesn't mean it'll work for
another person.
Everyone's genetics isdifferent and their disease is
different as well.
With that said, fruits andvegetables have to be the core
(03:26):
of an anti-inflammatory dietbecause of the phytonutrients
and the fiber.
With the colors in each fruitand vegetable, you see there's a
different phytonutrient in them.
Phytonutrients aremicronutrients in these foods
that are not essential tosurvival, but they're essential
to maintaining your health andas you eat these foods, they
(03:48):
will produce ananti-inflammatory effect in your
body and it'll help your immunesystem.
That's why it's so important tofocus on these foods.
I try not to put patients intoone category for foods, I really
try to emphasize fruits andvegetables in general.
Some people don't want to bevegan, and that's totally fine.
(04:09):
I work with all types ofpatients and meet them where
they want to be met.
Some patients will eat meat.
I mean not meat, but fish.
Fish is known to beanti-inflammatory in a lot of
the rheumatology studies.
What I don't like about fish isthat there's a lot of pollution
and toxins in fish now that wedidn't have thousands of years
(04:30):
ago.
So your oil spill, yourpollution, goes into the fish.
The bigger fish eat the smallfish and then we eat the bigger
fish and then we get thatpollutants in our body.
But overall, if you're lookingat fish, apart from that, it's
pretty anti-inflammatory.
So I would say you got to eatyour fruits and vegetables and
whole grains.
Whole grains are very importantfor an anti-inflammatory diet
(04:54):
because of the fiber, but ofcourse paleo cuts out grains but
it still works for people.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
And what about nuts and seeds and all the legumes
and all the beans and stuff?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Talking a lot about fiber.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah.
So nuts, seeds and beans,legumes those are very important
because they have fiber.
Also, Like you said, they havevery, very high fiber and they
have protein as well.
Your beans have high protein.
Hemp seeds have high protein aswell.
So I really like those foodproducts and I do recommend it
to my patients.
However, there are going to bepopulations that will not be
(05:30):
able to tolerate these beansbecause maybe the fiber content
is too high.
I know the paleo diet likes tocut these food groups out.
I don't recommend that.
I always recommend trying toincorporate as many food groups
as possible, trying not to betoo restrictive.
Try to incorporate as many foodgroups as possible.
Try not to be too restrictive.
Um, one of the reasons why somepeople um may react to the beans
(05:50):
like I said before, it might bethe high fiber content and
they're just very sensitive toit's not because of an allergy,
it's not because it'sinflammatory.
It's because possibly themicrobiome the gut microbiome
isn isn't adaptive to it.
Yet A lot of people withautoimmune diseases will have
something called gut dysbiosis.
So your gut microbiome consistsof over 100 trillion bacteria
(06:15):
and your gut microbiome willhave good bacteria and bad gut
bacteria and in autoimmunediseases and almost across all
of the spectrum.
You have something called gutdysbiosis.
So that means your bad gutbacteria overwhelms your good
gut bacteria.
When this happens, some of yourbacteria that might be needed
to digest certain foods mightnot be there because the gut
(06:37):
dysbiosis needs to bereplenished.
So that might be a reason whythese people might not be able
to tolerate beans and legumesand grains.
That's why people like a paleodiet more.
There is something very, verypopular these days about the
anti-lectin diet.
So lectins are found in beansand legumes and some people
(07:02):
potentially may be sensitive tothem, but when you cook them,
95% of the lectins are destroyed, so that's not even an issue.
There's no real scientificstudies out there on lectins and
inflammation.
I only found one study in thepast 10 years that have talked
about this.
Really, Maybe in the futurewe'll have more studies, but
(07:22):
right now it's overblown andit's not really built on science
and that's why it's probablyimportant to soak the beans as
well.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Correct the raw beans , you know the dry ones, yeah to
get rid of the lectins and sofor anyone listening here for
them to transition to a betterlifestyle they have heard you
loud and clear so far as far asa whole food, plant-based diet
and the beans and legumes, thefiber in general, the fruits and
(07:51):
vegetables and whatnot.
You talked about gut microbiome.
So for someone to help buildthat is probiotics, a route, or
even if they are not able todigest these beans and legumes,
maybe they shouldn't go at itjust overnight, but then start
(08:14):
small and transition.
Is that kind of like the recipefor success?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah, if you can't tolerate these foods, you
can work your way to success.
Yeah, if you can't toleratethese foods, you can work your
way to success.
Try to incorporate just alittle bit of it, just a
spoonful at a time.
Get your microbiome used tothese type of foods.
You certainly don't need totake a probiotic supplement to
improve.
There's probiotics in lots offruits and vegetables out there.
You just need to find them.
There's prebiotics in thesefoods as well.
(08:42):
So I don't recommend to mypatients to go on probiotic
supplements because they don'treally need to, but I'm
certainly not against theseprobiotic supplements.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Okay, but interestingly enough, of course,
you and I here are having aconversation on a podcast forum,
trying to just put bestmessaging out there, but this is
not to be construed as medicaladvice or substitute for
in-person medical advice.
That is something we need tomention.
But again, I stop my probioticand my IBD feels a lot better,
(09:18):
because I think it also makes mewonder there isn't probably a
universal, one size fits allapproach and there's not a
single bottle that can cater toyou and to me and to somebody
else, right?
So I have incorporated more andmore colors into my food and
all whatever you have beensuggesting.
(09:41):
Most of what you have said, Ithink you know I have definitely
found results.
So I'm completely in tune withwhat you're saying and I'm sure
this is going to be fascinatingfor the listeners.
So does gut microbiome alsoplay a role in how the body
reacts to medications and, ingeneral, your mood and
(10:04):
well-being overall?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So yeah, the gut microbiome does affect the mood.
It's so important.
You have a gut brain connection, so the gut is very important
for mental health and alsooverall it's so important to
everything.
You can't emphasize the gutmicrobiome enough.
(10:27):
So that's why food is soimportant.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Okay, you said mind-body connection there and I
know you suggest severaloptions for improving that
situation as well, like yoga,meditation, things like that
I'll have you talk about yoursocial media follow at the very
end.
But if you can tell us how onecan help achieve that and also a
(11:01):
little bit more about the roleof exercise in also helping to
build the gut microbiome ormaking the immune system strong.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, so relieving stress is so important for
immune health and to fightautoimmune disease.
You can eat so good, soanti-inflammatory, but if your
stress levels are high it'sgoing to create inflammation.
Still, you're gonna you'reprobably gonna flare if you have
chronic stress.
So there's so many techniquesyou can do out there.
Um, you can do mind, um, guidedimagery, you can do guided
(11:33):
imagery.
You can do meditation, yoga,tai chi, mindfulness, eating,
just being mindful throughoutthe day, gratitude, journaling,
coloring books and all thesedifferent things out there.
There's so much you can do forstress reduction, biofeedback,
getting a therapist, gettingover traumas Past traumas are so
(11:53):
important to get over forautoimmune disease as well.
So there's so much you can doand I learned a lot of these
techniques through my fellowshipthat I'm in right now through
the University of Arizona'sIntegrative Medicine Fellowship.
It's a two-year program and ittalks about all these different
things you can help and youdon't have to have autoimmune
disease to do these things.
You don't have to have anyillness.
(12:14):
It's very therapeutic and justto maintain one's health as well
and just going to exercise aswell.
Exercise is anti-inflammatory.
You have to exercise.
It attacks the reactive oxygenspecies.
It's a natural way for yourbody's immune system to get
stronger.
So if you can't walk, thenstretch.
(12:34):
If you can't run, then justwalk.
But any type of movement isvery helpful.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And every small bucket of time that one can find
I seem to read a lot aboutthose kind of things these days
suggested by doctors Every smallbit that one can do like five
minute, 10 minute intervals, allthose are helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Correct, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Okay, something is better than nothing, definitely.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, okay, and.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I know you have like a quick breathing technique that
you try to teach people likethe four, seven, eight.
Would you tell the listenersabout it here?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, you can do this throughout the day as many
times as you want.
So this brings you back tomindfulness.
So what you do is you breathein for four seconds and then you
hold it for seven seconds andyou exhale for eight seconds,
and I like doing this.
It just helps me focus on mybreath.
If I'm really stressed abouteverything else, if I'm focused
(13:35):
on my breath, I can't think ofanything else.
Some people also like to do the5-5-5 technique.
So instead of doing 4 seconds,7 seconds, 8 seconds, they'll do
5 seconds of breathing in,holding it and then breathing
out as well, and this can helpwith anxiety, depression and so
many things.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Maybe even improving sleep as well.
Right Like being able to fallasleep and does the longer
exhalation like make you likemore grounded?
Is that why the eight in there?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I'm not sure.
Yeah, that's a great question.
I mean, when I do the eightseconds, it really makes me
focus on the eight, because ittakes a long time to get to
eight seconds.
So it just makes you more awareof the situation.
That's why I like the eightseconds.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
And just to touch back a little bit on the fruits
and vegetables and the wholefood plant-based diet is it
important for someone to eat,necessarily organic?
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, that's an excellent question.
So the reason why I recommendorganic is because of if you
don't eat organic, you'll getsomething called glyphosate,
which is a pesticide, and it's abreakdown of the pesticide.
So you get glyphosate and thatends up in our fruits and
vegetables.
And the glyphosate has beenassociated with the leaky gut,
(15:00):
so it does affect the gutmicrobiome.
But you certainly don't need toeat organic in order to get
better.
I think the important takeawayhere is to eat your fruits and
vegetables, whether they'reorganic or non-organic.
Just get them in.
If you can't afford it, theneat organic.
Glyphosate is an environmentaltoxin that I try to stay away
(15:20):
from.
But at home I mean if the priceis right, then I'll get organic
, but I mean sometimes organicis too expensive on that
particular day in the grocerystore.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Mm-hmm, and in those cases also, I think from my own
personal experience.
I just would like to share thatgrowing our own fruits and
vegetables whatever possible,even in like small container
garden type of situations.
I think that helps to at leastgive us peace of mind that what
(15:52):
you're eating is not pesticideladen.
Plus, it also helps connectwith nature, with the ground,
you know when we are out andabout gardening.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Exactly Playing with the soil and all that stuff.
Yeah, I agree with youcompletely.
I think growing food in yourbackyard and your yard is the
best because you know exactlywhat's going in it.
Because even if something'scalled organic, it can still
have glyphosate and thesepesticides on them.
That doesn't really mean it'spesticide 300%, because if
(16:23):
they're growing well, one sideof the farm is organic, the
other side of the farm is notorganic.
The wind can blow all thepesticide over to the other side
.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And being connected with nature, the skin is also a
source to build microbiome.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, okay, okay.
Having talked about all this,let's just talk about some of
the inflammatory markers thatyou said you typically check.
Can you tell listeners what CRPis, what ESR is, and how
important is it for someone tohave their doctor check these if
(17:00):
they experience aches and painsthat seem to be indicative of
inflammation?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, so C-reactive protein and ESR, which is
sedimentation rate, are twoinflammatory markers we
frequently get in medicine.
C-reactive protein is producedby the liver and sedimentation
rate is just talking about howthe red blood cells flow down in
(17:27):
the test tube and the rate ofit will help tell us whether
there's a lot of inflammation ornot.
However, these inflammationmarkers are not 100% accurate
all the time.
It doesn't mean that justbecause it's negative doesn't
mean that you don't haveinflammation in your body.
They're just biomarkers.
I've certainly seen patientsflare right in front of me with
normal C-reactive protein andESR, so it's just something nice
(17:47):
to get, but it doesn't tell methe complete picture.
And your ESR-CRP can go withautoimmune disease, but it can
also go with infection, can gowith cancer and it can even go
with being obese as well.
So there's so many reasons whyESR-CRP will go up and you
really have to have the overallclinical picture of the doctor
(18:08):
and the judgment of the doctorto determine whether this is
significant or not.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Okay, having said that, if this is significant or
not.
Okay, having said that, do youbelieve that these markers can
shift periodically based on whatsomeone eats or how they carry
on their lifestyle?
Can say, any of these factors,like food or meditation or
anything else, exercise, have apositive effect on these markers
(18:33):
?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Oh yeah, definitely.
I've seen patients who eatanti-inflammatory diet and their
markers start going down.
There's a really big study outthere off the NHANES data that I
think.
They observed patients over10-20 years and they found that
the higher amount of fiber youate, the lower the C-reactive
(18:56):
protein of the population aswell.
So definitely food plays a hugerole and stress reduction does
as well.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Oh wonderful.
What about gluten, doctor?
Is it something that you tellpatients to avoid, or is it okay
for certain people to be eatinggluten and certain others not?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So gluten in medicine mainly affects celiac disease
patients.
So if you have celiac disease,you cannot tolerate gluten
because of an antibody.
It will affect the smallmarcovilli in your small
intestine and so there's acouple of groups out there.
There's the celiac diseasegroup and then you have your
non-celiac gluten sensitivitygroup.
(19:39):
So these patients do not haveceliac disease, but the gluten
does affect them and somepatients do have a wheat problem
as well.
With that said, gluten canpotentially affect patients with
autoimmune diseases.
The reason why I say that isbecause when you eat gluten
there's Dr Fasano from Harvard.
He discovered this that glutendoes produce the leaky gut.
(20:01):
So when you eat gluten it canopen up the little cells, up the
tight junctures.
Each cell is connected to eachother very tightly.
When you eat gluten it willopen up the cells, the tight
junctions a little bit, so smallfood particles, viruses and
these things can flow throughand then interact with the
immune system.
However, I don't think we havethe full story here, because
(20:26):
gluten can affect immune disease.
But I have a lot of patientswho eat gluten that have gone to
remission.
I eat gluten and most of thetime I'm pain-free.
So I think we need moreresearch on it, but certainly
gluten is one of the factors Ilook at when a patient comes to
me.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Okay, maybe worth a try, but not necessarily
something to avoid altogether,if it works.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Exactly Because if you are avoiding gluten, it's
heavier on your pocket, andavoiding gluten doesn't mean the
food's healthier.
Studies have shown that peoplethat eat gluten are generally
healthier in the populationbecause they're not restricted
to the certain foods that theyneed to eat.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Okay, we referenced paleo diet earlier and all of
that and say there's Atkins diet.
There's so many different typesof diet.
Do you think any of these arelike a tailor-made approach for
anyone?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So I would say so.
You're going to hear storiesthat people on the keto diet get
better.
I don't on the keto diet getbetter.
I don't recommend the keto dietbecause there's so many
complications that can happenfrom this.
I mean, heart disease is one ofthe top killers of the world
and also with lupus patients,one of the top killers is heart
(21:44):
disease.
Rheumatoid arthritis is heartdisease as well.
One of the top killers is heartdisease.
Rheumatoid arthritis is heartdisease as well.
So if you get better on a ketodiet, you're missing out on the
fruits.
A lot of fruits havephytonutrients in them and
potentially, if you don't eatvegetables too, the refined
carbohydrates can be so healthyfor patients.
So that's why I don't recommendthe keto diet.
(22:06):
All the saturated fat I don'tthink it's leading to any good
out there.
And for the paleo diet I mean Idon't recommend the paleo diet
if a patient doesn't need to cutup grains because, like I said,
grains are very healthy.
I mean you're cutting outquinoa, rice, beans and all
(22:29):
these things that can be very,very therapeutic for patients
and sometimes it's a mentalblock.
If you can't eat these foods,it can be very stressful as well
.
Not everyone needs to cut outthese foods to get better.
So I think everyone'smicrobiome is different, but
because they have a diseasealready, their microbiome is out
(22:51):
of balance.
That's why certain diets workbetter for certain people.
But I think once theirmicrobiome is restored, you can
certainly introduce these foodsback into your system.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Can someone not realize that they are even
stressed?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Can someone not realize that they are even
stressed.
Oh yeah, definitely.
I think if you're not mindful,if you're used to such a high
stress level already sometimesyour high stress level is your
norm and you don't realize yourstress.
And chronic stress isunfortunately one of the root
causes of autoimmune disease.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Okay, and you were on an Atkins diet earlier, when
you were a football player,because you felt like you needed
protein.
What's your message to someonethat says athletes need animal
protein to thrive?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Yeah, so you certainly don't need it.
There's a lot of athletes nowprofessional athletes that are
on a plant-based diet that arethriving.
I think there was a documentarythe Game Changers.
The Tennessee Titans were onthat documentary.
They're a football team and alot of the athletes on there
were eating a plant-based dietand they were doing very well.
So it's something that oursociety has to get over, but you
(24:01):
don't need an animal protein tobuild muscle.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay and yeah, you had your story there in terms of
okay, you just ended up eatinga whole lot of protein, but then
you didn't focus on your plantsor your fruits and vegetables,
and that was initially when youfelt all that inflammation also
correct in your life.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Okay.
So on the flip side, cansomeone be vegan and have an
energetic and vibrant lifestyle?
Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, you can certainly be vegan and have a
very vibrant life being vegan.
You just have to be.
You can get all the protein.
There's a lot of differentamino acids out there.
Not every fruit and vegetableand grain will have all the um
amino acids you need for yourprotein.
But if you eat all thecombinations eat the rainbow,
(24:55):
everything you can certainly getall the amino acids you need.
So it's a myth that, um, youcan't get enough protein when
you're um vegan and being vegan,um, you're going to eat a lot
of fiber, so fiber is veryanti-inflammatory.
It's good for the immune system.
So there is certainly nodrawback to being vegan.
But not everyone can be veganand it's everyone's a little bit
(25:16):
different in their geneticmakeup.
Some people say they don't feelas well when they're vegan, and
I certainly believe it.
So you can, but the main pointhere is still eat your fruits
and vegetables.
That's the main thing for everytype of diet.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, so I think you have emphasized it very nicely.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to talk to us today,
and I really appreciate youtaking the time to do it here on
Podcast Freshly Forever.
Thank you so much, dr Yu.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Thank you, Vi.
It's been a pleasure to be onyour show forever.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Thank you so much, dr Yu.
Thank you, vaai.
It's been a pleasure to be onyour show.
Listeners, as always, followthe podcast, rate the podcast
and leave a review from yourpodcast app of choice.
Follow me on Instagram andYouTube at Vaai P Kumar.
That's V-A-I-P-K-U-M-A-R forall things digital media and
(26:08):
lifestyle.
Until next time with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me Vi saying so long.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!