September 18, 2024 • 47 mins
Unlock the secrets to a healthier, more restful life with Dr. Tamizh Selvi, an experienced obstetrician and gynecologist from Tamil Nadu, India.
With sleep deprivation becoming an increasingly alarming trend, understanding the nuances of our sleep cycles has never been more crucial.
Our guest takes us on a fascinating journey through the complexities of sleep cycles, explaining how non-REM and REM(Rapid Eye Movement) stages are essential for our physical and mental well-being.
Discover the critical importance of achieving complete sleep cycles and why a consistent sleep schedule is vital for maintaining your body's natural circadian rhythm.
You probably wonder why you feel so vibrant and energized after certain nights when you get uninterrupted sleep.
In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of REM sleep's role in memory reorganization, emotional balance, creativity, and learning.
Dr. Selvi sheds light on the stark differences between REM and non-REM sleep attributes and how disruptions in these cycles can lead to long-term health issues. Learn how your individual chronotype affects your sleep patterns and why sticking to a regular sleep schedule can significantly enhance your daily performance.
Enhance your sleep quality with practical tips from this chat, including the optimal timing for coffee and alcohol consumption to avoid disrupting your rest.
We delve into the adverse effects of caffeine and alcohol on sleep, the dangers of insomnia, and its impact on mental and cardiovascular health. Be sure to catch the video chat on Youtube and post questions there for our guest to respond. Don't miss this insightful episode that promises to transform your understanding of "sleep better, live better"!
DISCLAIMER: THIS PODCAST IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN PERSONALLY FOR CASE BY CASE NEEDS.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vai Kumar (00:00):
We all are very happy when we get a good night's
sleep.
Why?
Because sleep is such acornerstone to us feeling very
healthy and leading a robustlife.
Dr Tamizh Selvi from Tamil Nadu, india, has done several
presentations on human sleep inmany different forums.
(00:20):
She is here today with us towalk us through the different
facets of human sleep, just sowe can learn and take away a
nugget or two for us toincorporate it in our own lives.
Let's get to the episode.
Hey folks, welcome to anotherepisode on podcast Freshly
Forever.
Today we have here with us thewonderful Dr Tamar Selvi from
(00:46):
Erode, tamil Nadu, india.
She is a consultantobstetrician gynecologist
practicing out of VishalamHospital.
She owns that clinic and shehas special interests in sleep
science, mental health,restricted eating and longevity.
She is also a proponent of veryhealthy eating and has, to her
(01:09):
credit, some healthy snackproduction as well, satvam.
So it's with great joy that Iwelcome Dr Tamar Selvi here to
podcast Freshly Forever.
Hey, dr Tamar Selvi, how areyou today?
Oh, I'm very fine.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (01:23):
I'm so glad to be with you today and this is a
very important topic you haveselected and I feel privileged
to present my knowledge to youand make people aware about the
importance of human sleep.
Vai Kumar (01:37):
Thank you so much for introducing me.
That's wonderful, thank you.
We all live in a day and agewhere immediacy takes precedence
over everything else, right?
So, in whatever we do, giventhis scenario, I think sleep is
something which is very, verycompromised, and I'm just so
(01:58):
thrilled to discuss this topicwith you.
Why don't you start us off byhighlighting the need for good
sleep, one of the most neglectedpart of health is sleep
nowadays.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (02:10):
So we all should agree on that, right from
teenage, even before that.
Nowadays, the current trendpeople, they tend to sleep very
less, at least one to two hoursless by what our ancestors and
seniors were doing here.
So this is a very importantimpact on the health, both
physical, mental and emotionalhealth.
So I think we should be awareof this and this is the right
(02:33):
time we talk about sleep andfollow a perfect sleep hygiene
to improve our mental andphysical health.
We are talking about human sleeptoday.
Different species havedifferent patterns of sleep, so
we're going to focus on humansleep.
Vai Kumar (02:47):
What, then, would you say?
Are there any age-relatedvariations in terms of how much
we all need sleep, say, forbabies what is it for adults and
what is it for teenagers?
I'm sure there is some patternright.
There's some suggestedguidelines.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (03:04):
Actually the normal at 15 to 25 years.
Like adolescents group we needaround 8 to 11 hours of sleep.
They can sleep a little longer,actually 8 to 11 hours.
This is adolescent group 15 to25 and the babies they can sleep
up to 18 hours.
The newborn babies and the two.
Fragmented sleep is a patternin the babies, so that is for
(03:27):
the babies.
Vai Kumar (03:28):
And 8 to 11 hours is for preteens, our age group,
that is the normal adult agegroup from 25 to say 50, 7 to 8
hours of sleep is optimal.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (03:39):
That is what we should aim for and over 50, we
take it as little old age andthose people they tend to sleep
less than six hours because ofnatural decline in the hormone
melatonin, so we will talk aboutthat later.
Mainly, the normal healthyadult sleep is seven to nine
hours.
Vai Kumar (03:59):
Okay, so you said fragmented sleep in babies, and
then the differences in adults,and then as we progress into the
stage of being a senior, itbecomes even more.
You know the needs aredifferent, right?
Are there like different stagesin which we sleep during a
particular night?
Say for us to say we really gotgood rest in a particular night
(04:24):
.
Are there like stages in sleep,and what are the different
components that make up oursleep cycle?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (04:31):
this is a very fascinating phenomenon that is
occurring in the human sleep andyou will not believe like how
much magic is happening when wesleep.
So our brain, we think it isresting, but it is not so.
It is functioning sobeautifully without our
knowledge.
It is doing its work sophenomenally and we get up
(04:52):
refreshed, following thatparticular sleep cycle.
So what is the sleep cycle?
Technically speaking, there aremajor two components, depending
upon the EEG waveforms.
So one is non-REM sleep,non-rem sleep.
The second variety is REM sleep.
So REM R-E-M rapid eye movementsleep, non-rem is non-rapid eye
(05:20):
movement sleep.
So during the night, as soon aswe close our eyes and we just
go to slumber, what immediatelyhappens is we go to a deep state
of sleep, that is, immediatelywe go to the non-REM sleep.
So that is the initial part ofsleep.
The first half of our sleepduration is almost occupied by
the non-REM sleep and the nexthalf of the sleep that is
(05:41):
towards wakening up.
From the middle part of thenight towards wakening up.
We tend to follow the non-REMsleep pattern.
But these two varieties, theyactually alternate with each
other.
It is not like strictly thefirst half is non-REM and the
second half is REM.
We actually alternate withthese cycles First non-REM and
(06:02):
then REM, then non-REM REM,non-rem REM Like that.
Each cycle is lasting foraround 90 minutes.
One cycle of REM and non-REMwill last for 90 minutes.
So in a duration of seven tonine hours we have to have at
least four to five cycles ofcomplete REM and non-REM for us
(06:22):
to wake up fresh and do ourduties in the daytime, perfectly
Like wherever we put a block inthe REM or non-REM sleep and we
disrupt the cycle somewhere aswe get up in the morning we may
do our work, but not veryproductively not as we expect.
So our energy will be definitelydown and our performance will
be definitely downsized.
Vai Kumar (06:43):
So what I mean to say is this 90 minutes of.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (06:46):
REM and non-REM cycle.
They keep alternating and innight sleep we should have at
least four to five cycles ofthis REM and non-REM occurring
for us to have a complete,refreshing sleep.
Vai Kumar (07:00):
Okay, perfect, but is it very structured?
Does every individual havenon-REM, then followed by REM,
non-rem followed by REM?
Or how is it that anydisruption even happens when we
say I did not sleep well lastnight, so what actually has
occurred?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:20):
This is interesting, actually, in the
middle of the night.
Suppose you wake up, you do anynature's call like you want to
pass urine or something, or youget a dream.
You wake up, somebody knocksthe door, some cell phone rings,
you wake up.
So whatever happens that cycleis disrupted at that time.
Vai Kumar (07:36):
It is possible that we can go back to sleep within,
say, 15 to 20 minutes.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:40):
If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will
not be considered as disrupted15 to 20 minutes.
Vai Kumar (07:47):
If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will not
be considered as disruptive.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:50):
Suppose you are not able to sleep for more than
30 minutes in the middle of thenight you get up and you are
not able to go to slumber again.
That time the sleep isdefinitely disrupted.
The cycle is said to bedisrupted and you are not
following the typical pattern.
You are breaking the cyclesomewhere in the night and early
morning when you get up with analarm, like, say, 3, 4 o'clock.
You keep an alarm and you getup with this blaring alarm you
(08:11):
suddenly get up.
That is not nature actually weare getting up artificially with
some alarm.
So in that case, what happens?
The?
Vai Kumar (08:18):
REM sleep is actually occurring close to awakening.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (08:21):
It is 1 to 2 hours.
Very close to the wake-up time.
We have the REM sleep.
That is very, very, veryimportant for refreshing wake-up
, so you get up early.
Set an alarm to wake up one ortwo hours earlier than you
usually get up.
That will disrupt your REMsleep and definitely is going to
have profound effects on yourdaytime performance.
Vai Kumar (08:44):
Okay, very well said.
What about the characteristicsof each of these?
Say non-REM and REM?
What attributes does a REMsleep, non-rem sleep cover?
Because we all consider sleepto be a rest and rejuvenating
mechanism, right?
So what are the attributes thatreally happen when we say we
(09:07):
are in a non-REM cycle?
Sometimes I think when I sleepI tend to remember whatever
happened during the day.
So is that something?
Is there a connection towhatever happens during a
non-REM?
And then, once you cover that,we'll just get to the other kind
of sleep pattern the REM cycle.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (09:25):
Okay, let's say like the non-REM sleep, what
all is happening in the brainduring the non-REM sleep?
Actually you know that is theinitial part of the sleep, is
the initial half of the night,so the events occurring are
whatever memory we store in thedaytime is deeply stored within
the brain cells during thisnon-REM sleep and the memory is
(09:46):
consolidated and the memoriesbecome strong, intensified and
they are stored deeply in thebrain cells and there is also
learning of detailed information, whatever we learned in the
daytime.
Vai Kumar (09:57):
That learning becomes more detailed during the
non-REM sleep and whatever welearn so that is a part there is
also learning of fine motorskills which is happening within
the non-dream sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (10:09):
Fine motor skills like writing, like
painting, any art form, whateverwe do.
The fine motor skills, they areactually fine tuning during the
non-dream sleep and also thereare memory relay is happening,
which is whatever memory we formin the daytime is the recent
memory is relayed to the.
Whatever memory we form in thedaytime, the recent, memory is
relayed to the prefrontal cortexof the brain.
Vai Kumar (10:29):
And this memory is becoming more intensified.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (10:32):
This is all happening in the non-dream sleep
and there are also someneurochemicals which are
released in the non-dream sleepand we said it is a very deep
sleep, so there is abundantrelease of serotonin which is a
hormone which is known for itsstillness and serenity, so that
hormone is profoundly seenduring the non-REP sleep.
And also there is somenoradrenaline, citabolin and
(10:54):
dopamine hormones, but mostlyserotonin is the hormone which
is produced during the non-REPsleep and also the brain cells
are completely washed off, thetoxins and the neurotoxins which
naturally we produce toxins asthe cell works, no, so those
toxins are all completely washedoff during the non-REM sleep.
So these are all the thingshappening during the non-REM
(11:17):
sleep and during the REM sleepalso, we said, this covers the
second half of the night, so,especially two hours before
waking up.
Vai Kumar (11:26):
There is rapid horizontal eye movements.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (11:28):
Though the eyelids are closed, the eyeballs
tend to move fast and there isvoluntary muscle paralysis
happening in this period.
So what is it called Voluntarymuscle paralysis?
Muscles are paralyzed.
Suppose dreams are a major partof this REM sleep.
It is a healthy part ofsleeping.
Actually, we should get dreams.
That is a healthy part of thesleep.
(11:48):
So whatever dreams we get, wedon't act on the dreams.
That is also normal.
We get the dreams we feelpanicky.
We dream like running panicking, like forgetting something,
missing a train or somethingmissing a train or something.
So that time we don't act outour dreams, we just lay in our
bed.
That is because voluntarymuscles are paralyzed and since
(12:11):
our muscles are paralyzed, weare not able to move our body,
though our mind is racing.
So that is one part of non-REMsleep.
This is very healthy actually,and most of the dreams are
non-recollectible.
That is also a common occurrenceduring the REM sleep and
whatever memory that is formedduring the non-REM sleep, this
is actually dissociated,reorganized, refreshed and they
are reconnected so that badmemories, the unwanted memories,
(12:34):
are pushed back, the wantedmemories are put forth.
So this is happening during theREM sleep.
See how important it is,because REM sleep just before
wake up, we are having more ofREM sleep.
This is nature's phenomenon ofgiving us good memories and
filtering the bad ones, andsometimes we sleep in the night
with some annoying problems,like we won't have any solution.
(12:55):
What is this?
I'm not able to solve?
Vai Kumar (12:56):
that analogy.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (12:57):
If you have a restful sleep and you wake up in
the morning, sometimes justlike that, you have a magical
solution Without even thinking.
That is because of the REMsleep.
If you have a proper REM sleep,that magical solution can be
brought up.
These are all things happeningduring the REM sleep.
And also the emotions aresmoothened out.
Actually, suppose you havedifficult emotions while going
to bed, something difficult youare facing, so the edges of the
(13:20):
emotions are smoothened out andthat becomes manageable when you
get up.
Edges of the emotions aresmoothened out and that becomes
manageable when you get up.
And also anxiety, fear, panic,which are all the features of
amygdala response, they aresmoothened during the REM sleep.
This is how I mean.
It's a very healthy part ofsleep and it's also improved
creativity is occurring duringthe REM sleep and also learning
(13:40):
of new things we are doingwithout our knowledge, and there
is also improved performance inthe following day.
These are all with healthy REMsleep.
So many things are happening.
Vai Kumar (13:50):
Does it stand that REM is more beneficial than
non-REM sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (13:55):
Yes, true, true , rem is more beneficial than
non-REM.
It is very important actually.
Vai Kumar (14:01):
Okay.
Is there any chance one mayhave more of a REM cycle than
non-REM cycle during aparticular night, say during a
non-REM cycle if I'm disturbed,does it mean that, okay, that
night, even if the non-REM isdisturbed and I'm more in a REM
cycle, sleep that I would stillbe feeling fine the next morning
(14:23):
?
Yeah maybe there everything isoverlapping.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (14:26):
It's not strictly this minute, that
minute and all that, butuninterrupted sleep where you
have this very healthy patternof the cycle going on.
Sometimes we get disturbed.
We have to be disturbedsometimes, so that is
unavoidable, but still there isa difference.
If you have a healthy sleep,the following day will be
definitely magnificent.
(14:47):
Okay, you will feel so energeticand like double power to do it
if you have a sleep deprivationeven for one night, the
following day we will definitelybe powerless and irritable, and
all that so we will be able todo the work, but still the
efficiency will be definitelyaffected.
Vai Kumar (15:10):
And doctors often tend to say okay, if you are not
sleeping good, there isdefinitely going to be a
disruption to your health over aperiod of time.
So does it have any correlationto one particular sleep cycle
being impacted, meaning whethernon-REM constantly being
impacted or REM being constantlyimpacted?
Does research indicate anythinglike that or it just doesn't
(15:32):
matter?
Irrespective of sleep cycle, ifyou're not feeling well rested
for prolonged periods of time,meaning for several days, that
automatically it takes a toll onyour body.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (15:50):
Yeah, actually there are certain disease
patterns, nightmares, we have aprofound deterioration of
non-REM sleep, and alcoholismand excess caffeine intake will
have disruption of REM sleep.
So, like that, there are someinsomnias which are typically
affecting the REM and non-REM,but commonly we speak about
insomnia, that's it.
Vai Kumar (16:08):
Okay, and what about some of us?
I don't know about you, but I'mlike slightly late to bed, but
then again I'm not like a veryearly bird all the time,
although sometimes, if there isa need, I can definitely get
myself up and running.
So you may sleep early, I maysleep late, we may wake up at
(16:28):
different times.
Why is it that different peoplefollow like different pattern,
although it's recommended thatwe all shut lights out by like
10 and wake up like nice andbright and early in the morning,
right, say, 5.30, 6.00.
So does this have anycorrelation?
Do some of us fall into certaintypes and do others fall into a
(16:50):
different bucket?
Is that why we are doing itdifferently?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (16:54):
Actually, there are two types.
One is like we sleep early, thepeople who sleep early and get
up early, people who sleep lateand get up late in the morning.
These are called chronotype.
That is, you are basicallybuilt to do that way.
You don't have to adhere towhat other people are following.
Vai Kumar (17:13):
Whatever is your pattern, nothing wrong in
adhering to it.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (17:16):
Actually, you can be a morning person or an
evening person and you canfollow your chronotype.
Nothing wrong, that isbasically what, what you are,
but you have to follow a strictschedule, like even on weekends,
follow a similar schedule.
You go to bed late, get up late.
Not one day like this, one daylike that, so that you have a
confusion in the circadian clockwhich is inside our body so
(17:36):
it's important that we followthat pattern and not just the
pattern.
Vai Kumar (17:41):
We also have to kind of adhere to the guidelines of
seven to nine hours of sleep, orwhatever that may be, depending
on the age group, correct?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (17:50):
yes, yeah, depending on the age group, we
can adhere to the number ofhours, but early or late depends
on your chronotype, so you canvery well, follow your
chronotype nothing wrong, somepeople six to seven hours is
optimal for them.
So they are genetically wiredto sleep for 6 to 7 hours only,
so that is also okay.
That is a window period.
Actually, less than 6 hours isonly abnormal, so 6 to 7 hours
(18:13):
is also normal for people.
They are poor sleepers and theycan function very well, with
that amount of sleep, that isalso okay.
Vai Kumar (18:22):
What, then, about any organ?
Just like we all rest andrecover?
Right?
You talked about the niceraspects in terms of us
recollecting, getting morecreative and things like that.
What about any organdetoxification or anything that
might be happening at night whenwe sleep?
So that is the whole rest andrecovery process, right?
(18:42):
If we all sleep at differenttimes and wake up at different
times, do you think any of thatis getting impacted?
You're asking about thediseases.
Like we don't sleep Even.
That, say, there isdetoxification of pancreas,
there's detoxification of organs, things like that.
So if we all sleep at differenttimes based on our chronotype,
(19:06):
can our body adjust by itself?
Or do you think there ispotential for us to give
ourselves room to catch somediseases if we are not following
certain pattern?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (19:20):
Yeah, this chronotype, we don't have to
bother, Only the number of hourswhich we sleep.
The quality and the quantity ofsleep is very important, Like 7
to 9 hours, maybe 7 to 9 hoursuninterrupted sleep in the night
.
That is what we are aiming for.
If we have that continuoussleep, then systems will be
functioning very well.
All the physical and the mentalsystem can be functioning very
(19:42):
well without any hitches.
Suppose, if we chronically getsleep deprived I mean less than
six hours for more than sixmonths then we'll have a
profound effect on the varioussystems of our body.
You will be like amazed to findall the systems are getting
affected with chronic sleepdeprivation Not once or twice,
but chronic sleep deprivation.
I'm talking about regular sleepdeprivation.
Vai Kumar (20:06):
Okay, and you brought up already the circadian rhythm
, the circadian clock.
We often hear that goingagainst the body clock is not
advisable.
Can you talk about the triggersof the circadian rhythm, the
triggers of the circadian clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (20:23):
Circadian clock is the biological clock that is
fit inside our body.
It keeps ticking all the 24hours and there are hormones
which influences the circadianclock and wakefulness hormone
and sleep hormone.
So they are divided intowakefulness hormone and sleep
hormone.
Wakefulness hormones they startpouring in once we wake up from
(20:43):
the sleep.
They are adenosine, cortisoland noradrenaline.
These are all the wakefulnesshormones and the sleep hormone
is only one hormone.
So these are the maininfluences of circadian clock.
Whatever we do is based on thesehormone outputs.
Whatever we do we wake up,exercise, be in the sunlight,
take coffee, alcohol, the foodintake everything influences
(21:06):
these hormones.
They make these hormones comefrom the cells and then they add
to produce wakefulness and thensleep in the night.
These are all the maininfluences of circadian clock,
adenosine, cortisol,noradrenaline and the night
hormone melatonin.
Vai Kumar (21:24):
Okay, the night hormone?
Okay.
In other words, it is best thatwe honor our body's clock and
follow this pattern that yousuggested earlier.
Whatever be your chronotype,follow going to bed at a certain
time, wake up at a certain time, be it weekday, weekend,
whatever.
That may be right.
So, just so, all theseprocesses that you mentioned,
(21:45):
all the release of thesehormones that are occurring
throughout the 24 hours in a day, it's not disturbed.
Is that a correct understanding?
Yes, perfect.
What about temperatureinfluence on sleep?
I think some of us like it cold, some of us like it hot, and
(22:05):
women during the age oftransition from perimenopause
into menopause?
That seems to be another story.
How would you addresstemperature influence on sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:17):
Yeah, temperature is the most
important and the strongestinfluencer of the circadian
clock.
So this is the strongesttrigger for the circadian clock.
What happens we have?
We talk about two temperatures.
One is the core, bodytemperature which is within our
body, the next one is theexternal temperature.
Vai Kumar (22:34):
So, both have to be in a different, in a particular
way.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:37):
So that we wake up and we sleep so early
morning by around 4 to 5 am.
Vai Kumar (22:43):
this wakefulness hormone, adenosine, is going to
be profoundly increased in thesystem.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:48):
It's going to abundantly pour into the system
naturally and our bodytemperature raises by around 1
to 2 degrees Celsius at thattime.
The increase in the core bodytemperature happens at around 5
am in the morning.
So we have to get up.
That is one strongest triggerfor us to wake up.
So if we observe that, we willdefinitely wake up.
That is one strongest triggerfor us to wake up.
So if we observe that, we willdefinitely wake up.
(23:08):
That is why, without anything,we can wake up at around 4 to 5
am.
That is, the core bodytemperature rising is the
natural trigger for thewakefulness hormone and we wake
up at that time.
And as night falls, after like7 pm in the night, the core body
temperature falls by around 1degree Celsius and melatonin
hormone is made to secrete inthe body, in the brain.
(23:29):
So the melatonin hormone takesover the wakefulness of the
adenosine cortisol, everythingand then the sleep ensures.
Actually this is the normalpattern which is occurring in
the body sleeping To initiatesleep and to maintain the proper
sleep around 18 to 18.3 degreesCelsius sleep and to maintain
the proper sleep around 18 to18.3 degrees Celsius.
(23:51):
The science says that we have tohave a room temperature ideally
at 18 to 18.3 degrees Celsiusfor initiating and maintaining a
healthy sleep.
That is during the night.
As soon as you get up, thenormal temperature rises and you
have to have a cold shower.
The cold shower just for a fewminutes.
In the cold shower your corebody tends to, your body
temperature tends to risefurther and this will have more
(24:12):
increase in the body temperatureand more wakefulness.
So it is good to have a coldshower as soon as you get up and
by nightfall, before going tosleep, you can have a warm
shower.
That decreases the bodytemperature.
Actually paradoxical, but itdoes.
It decreases the bodytemperature and helps the
melatonin secretion Warm showerbefore sleeping and a cold
shower soon after waking.
Vai Kumar (24:34):
Oh, that's a great tip right there, because no one
would fathom that the warm helpsyou sleep and the cold helps
you wake up.
So I guess I think once yourcore body temperature is set to
like a normal pattern for you tofunction optimally, I think
that also triggers yourdigestive fire and everything
(24:55):
else, so you can potentiallyhave like a great start to your
day.
That's wonderful.
Yeah, great tips right there.
We'll take a little break andwe'll cover the rest of it when
we get right back.
So we discussed about thecircadian clock and the
temperature influence.
Right, so you said 18.3 Celsius, so about 65 to 68 Fahrenheit
(25:19):
for listeners used to theFahrenheit measure.
What about the role of sunlightand also the time when we wake
up?
So we all say the morning sunis beneficial and the going down
sun is beneficial.
So what about us exposingourselves to sunlight and how
(25:39):
does it influence our body clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (25:41):
So the sunlight , early morning sun, we begin to
expose to the morning sun foraround 35 to 45 minutes in the
bright sun.
This will actually the sunlightwill reflect to trigger the
cells of the retina in theeyeball and these cells will
again go back to the brain cells, trigger the brain cells again
(26:02):
to produce more of the adenosinehormone.
So the wakefulness hormone isprofoundly outpouring when we
get exposed to the sun.
So that is what is happening inthe early morning sunlight.
That is around that orange,yellow, red, blue, white
spectrum of light.
So that activates the adenosineand that in turn activates the
(26:23):
neural cells, brain neurons, andthey become a beautiful
firework happening within thebrain.
And you have to allow thatfirework to happen for every day
so that you get more ofwakefulness and become more
alert and more refreshed bygetting exposed to the sound,
Even if the weather is cloudy.
A little longer exposure, likearound one hour, is enough to do
(26:46):
this job.
And please don't wearsunglasses because it will block
the rays coming onto the retina, so don't wear a sunglass while
you're going for walking, andalso the power glass.
If you're already wearing apower glass, that will help you
focus the sunlight on the retina.
Vai Kumar (27:02):
So that is better.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (27:03):
Actually, you are wearing a constant power
glass short sight one.
So that is is good.
You can wear the power glassbut no sunglasses.
So that is about the morningsunlight and you do exercise
along with sunlight.
It will even more activate thewakefulness hormone and it will
make you more refreshed.
And about the evening sun, thefalling sun, this also has the
(27:25):
same spectrum of color, likeorange, yellow, red and mild
blue and white spectrum.
So what?
The same color like the morningsun, but this will have an
opposite effect on the braincells, it will again go and
reflect on the retina and thatwill trigger the brain cells to
produce melatonin in the evening.
So after the sunset.
Vai Kumar (27:46):
The same sunlight makes your body to produce more
of melatonin in the evening, soafter the sunset.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (27:48):
The same sunlight makes your body to
produce more of melatonin, sothis is the natural thing
happening when you view theevening sunlight for around 10
to 15 minutes at the time ofsunset, it is very good for
improving your sleep.
It will make your melatoninmore secreted in your body, so
you are gadget oriented, you canmake more gadgets.
It is better to view theevening sunlight also for around
(28:11):
10 to 15 minutes so that younegate the bad effect of the
blue light.
Vai Kumar (28:17):
Okay, that's wonderful to know how the light
on the retina influences both usbeing more receptive to what
happens in the day, in terms ofwaking up more and be more
active, and also how we, how itbrings back our system down in
the evening in terms ofmelatonin secretion.
What about lifestyle aspects?
(28:39):
And you also touched upon theeffect of blue light.
So when people are exposed toso much of light, blue light,
you are saying getting out andexposing yourself to the evening
sun is more beneficial, right?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (28:54):
Yes, actually the blue and white light is
supposed to activate your brain.
Early morning, as soon as youget up, you have a cold shower
and switch on all the white,bright lights and blue lights in
your house.
That will help you even beforegoing to the sunlight for
exercising.
You can switch on all the whitelights in your house.
That will have a very goodeffect on the wakefulness
(29:17):
hormones.
That is one thing that clearlysays the white and blue spectrum
of light is activating yourbrain.
The same thing is happeningwhen you get exposed to the
gadgets like TV, computer,laptop, mobile phones.
That is detrimental to thesleep.
Actually, the melatonin ishampered with that.
So while going to bed that is atleast one to two hours before
(29:37):
going to bed.
Stop all these gadgets and moveall these gadgets away from
your bedroom.
Bed is only for like sleep.
You don't have these gadgets inthe bedroom.
Even if they are switched off,they tend to emit the light, so
they have profound incapacity onthe melatonin secretion.
So this will clearly postponeyour sleep and it will also have
a bad effect on the quantityand quality of this nightlight
(29:59):
setting.
Before going to bed, like one totwo hours before that, you
switch off all the gadgets andyou switch on the yellow dim
lights.
Yellow dim lights are supposedto improve your sleep and
produce more melatonin.
So have your light settings intwo modes.
One is bright white, the nextis an yellow dim mode.
You switch on those lights inthe evening time so that you get
prepared for your sleep.
(30:19):
So that is about the next.
Vai Kumar (30:21):
Okay, what about lifestyle aspects like how we
eat, what we do for exercise,what is the role of food,
exercise and also other triggerslike caffeine and alcohol in
our system when it comes to howwell we are able to sleep and
rest?
And you know, overall feelhealthy, the normal food intake.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (30:45):
We are supposed to adhere to the pattern of
sunlight the rising sun and thefalling sun.
So when the sun rises, starteating.
When the sun sets, stop eating.
So after 6pm it is better toavoid eating anything except for
drinking water.
This 3-4 hours before bedtimeyou are clearly avoiding any
(31:05):
food intake.
This will have a very goodeffect on your sleep.
It is going to improve yourmalnutrient secretion and also
improve your growth hormone,which is very good for your cell
repair, regeneration and allthose things.
This happens only when you stopeating 3 hours clearly before
your sleep.
So stop eating 3 hours beforesleep time.
Vai Kumar (31:26):
This is about the normal food.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (31:28):
And so good news for coffee lovers is coffee
is good.
It's a very good CNS boost, sowe all know it is a CNS
stimulant, a 12-hour systemstimulant.
It is going to have a very goodeffect on your alertness and
wakefulness.
It is good.
So I advise you to take coffeeand a half to two hours after
waking up.
Clearly, avoid coffee 10 to 14hours before your bedtime.
(31:51):
So that is what the sciencesays.
Why one and a half to two hoursafter waking up?
Why delay that coffee?
That is because you woke up andalready your adenosine cortisol
is at the peak level till 8 amin the morning, around 8 am.
Till that time it is already inthe peak.
Vai Kumar (32:08):
It is outpouring in your body on its own.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:10):
If you take coffee soon after waking it will
have a supraphysiological levelof this adenosine hormone.
So what does it do?
Vai Kumar (32:20):
After some time this will have a competitive
inhibition, competitive receptorinhibition with the adenosine
receptors and scientifically itis proven that it is going to
produce a caffeine crush.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:30):
That is a mid-morning.
You feel very sleepy and theeffect of this caffeine is gone
if you take it soon after wakingup.
Vai Kumar (32:39):
So you need another coffee or tea to pep up yourself
If you delay your coffee forone and a half to two hours
after waking this doesn't happenWith one coffee or one tea.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:46):
you can manage the whole day.
You don't have to take moredoses of this.
Caffeine I mean coffee, tea,cocoa I mean cola, coca-cola,
chocolates, everything whicheveris brown in color, we should
say so they are all havingcaffeine, not only coffee.
So that is one thing.
Vai Kumar (33:04):
And why avoiding coffee 10 to 14 hours before
bedtime.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (33:07):
That is because the effect of caffeine in the
blood is going to last for 10 to14 hours after your intake.
You keep on having coffee till2 pm, 5 pm in the evening,
coffee tea.
So this is going to have aprofound effect on your
malnutrition.
It is going to block yourmalnutrition To avoid that at
least by 11 am in the morning,10, 11 am in the morning.
(33:29):
If you're going to sleep at 10pm, then avoid coffee after 10
am in the morning, 12 hours atleast.
Your metabolizing capacity isonly such that for 10 to 14
hours it is going to stay inyour blood.
So better, don't have thateffect and avoid late hours in
the morning.
About alcohol alcohol is betterto avoid for 10 to 12 hours
(33:50):
before sleep.
It is going to stay in thesystem in your blood for such a
long time.
So you drink in the evening andnight.
Definitely you are going tohave a very poor sleep pattern.
You might be in the bed forlonger time but your sleep
quality is so much disorganizedyour REM sleep is going to be
impact purely and you're goingto have a fragmented sleep and
(34:12):
chronically, if this happens,you're going to have
relationship issues like mooddisturbance, irritability,
psychological and all thosethings, even suicidal tendencies
and increased risk of stroke,parkinson's disease and all
diseases you're going to havebecause of the sleep disturbance
.
It's not directly because ofalcohol, it is because of the
sleep disturbance due to alcohol.
Vai Kumar (34:31):
So if at all you want to.
Consume alcohol you should bein the mornings After 10, same
like coffee.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (34:37):
So your blood should completely clear that
from your system.
So don't take it in the eveningor at the night time.
Vai Kumar (34:46):
Everyone tends to drink during dinner time, so
that's clearly somethingincorrect that we all are doing.
And what about insomnia?
Now that we have focused somuch on the quality of sleep and
what makes up the sleep cycleand so much about what are all
the factors that are dominant interms of one getting a good
(35:08):
quality sleep, I think severalof us wrestle with insomnia,
sleeplessness, right, andinsomnia plays a great role in
mental health.
You are a huge proponent ofmental health as well.
Why don't you get us startedabout insomnia?
Why does this happen?
And also the role of insomniaand mental health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (35:31):
Insomnia is defined as less than six hours
of sleep every night for morethan six months.
So that is the definition of.
We have broadly two types ofinsomnia.
One is initiation insomnia,where you find it difficult to
initiate your sleep.
The next one is maintenanceinsomnia you sleep well but you
get up middle of the night notable to sleep again.
(35:52):
Both are not good for yourhealth.
You're going to have profoundhealth issues not only on the
mental health, but also yourphysical health also.
Vai Kumar (36:03):
Regarding the mental health, if you have your chronic
insomnia, your physical health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (36:05):
Also, regarding the mental health, if you have
your chronic insomnia, then youwould have a decreased cognitive
quotient, decreased ability tolearn new things there is a 40%
decreased ability to learn newthings and ADHD you are more
prone for ADHD and there isclearly mood changes, declined
memory and there's areward-seeking attitude.
Vai Kumar (36:27):
Clinical depression suicidal thoughts, suicidal
attempts and increased addiction, and there is also faster onset
of Alzheimer's disease andincreased risk of Parkinsonism.
And stroke.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (36:36):
This is about the mental health.
It also has effect on thecardiovascular health.
There is 200% increased risk ofcardiovascular disease and
heart attacks and there isincreased risk of coron disease
and heart attacks and there isincreased risk of coronary
artery calcifications and thereis also risk of systemic
hypertension, insomnia and roadtraffic accidents.
This is really alarming 70%increased risk.
(36:58):
It is more than alcoholism.
Actually, sleep deprivation ismore dangerous than alcoholism.
Why?
Because when they are drivingsleep deprived people, when they
are driving, they have microsleep, tendency to micro sleep.
The eyelids close for 1 to 2seconds.
That time accidents may happen.
Other things they have a latereaction for vehicles
(37:19):
approaching them.
So whenever a vehicle is comingin front of them, they have a
late reaction Little latereaction.
Vai Kumar (37:25):
That is responsible for majority of the accidents.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (37:27):
That is what science says.
Clearly, there is obesitypattern occurring within soma.
This is because there is analtered ratio of these hormones
called ghrelin and leptin.
Ghrelin is a hunger hormone,leptin is a satiety hormone.
So there is more hunger,hormone security without your
knowledge, and there is morecalorie intake per day 200 to
(37:50):
400 kilocalories are consumedmore in insomnias and the brain
is addicted to choose highcarbohydrate, sugary, salty and
fatty foods.
So you lose the capacity thecortex loses the capacity to
categorize the food types, soyou tend to sort to these junk
foods, and there is increasedfat deposition and decreased
(38:10):
lean muscle mass.
So this is all proven in thescience.
And what about immunity?
Insomnia is also decreasingyour natural immunity by 70
percent and you're more pronefor infection okay, and
malignancy also?
Vai Kumar (38:27):
does this mean then one can get autoimmune diseases
from chronic insomnia?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (38:35):
Yes, and also there is increased risk of
malignancies.
Who has told that it recognizesinsomnia as a probable
carcinogen?
This is because of theunfavorable gene modification
leading to cancers of the bowel,breast and prostate, those who
already have cancers and thesesurvivors are doomed to with
aggressive tumor progressionbecause of faster replication of
(38:58):
cancer cells.
This is all due to lack ofsleep.
Vai Kumar (39:01):
Okay, and reproductive health especially
yeah.
So reproductive health.
So that's also.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (39:08):
In males there is a definite decrease in
virility by a decade.
Actually they theirtestosterone levels.
When taken, it is equal to aman who is 10 years older to him
, so he becomes aged in hisreproductive capacity.
What about women?
This is about how is there arewomen?
(39:29):
There is no such data.
It is only about therelationship issues and like no
disturbance and all that clearthing is, for the male only,
okay.
Vai Kumar (39:39):
And what about then?
An optimal sleep hygiene.
What would you recommend foroptimal sleep hygiene?
Would that?
Would that be meditation?
What?
What other factors can helpsomeone achieve great sleep
hygiene?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (39:54):
So sleep hygiene, this is the most
important part of the wholepodcast.
We are doing so.
You follow a regular sleeppattern.
Go to bed at the same time,wake up at the same time, even
at the weekends, and follow yourchronotype.
If you are a morning person, beit.
If you are an evening person,be it.
If you are an evening person,be it.
Avoid caffeine 12 to 14 hoursbefore bedtime and 2 hours after
(40:18):
waking.
Avoid alcohol 10 to 12 hoursbefore sleep.
Pull the room temperature to18.3 degrees Celsius.
Take a warm shower before sleepand set up your lights yellow
and orange lights, I mean.
Change your light pattern atleast one hour before sleep.
Switch on these lights.
Avoid eating or drinking threehours before.
(40:41):
I mean avoid eating anythingthree hours before bedtime.
Avoid a high carbohydrate nightmeal.
Remove all the electronicgadgets from your bedroom, even
if they are switched off.
Use the same bed and pillow.
Go to bed only when you arereally sleepy.
Be in the other room or dosomething else.
Hear some music, read something.
Hearing music and readingsomething from the textbook is
(41:02):
really allowable.
You go to bed only when youreally feel sleepy.
Vai Kumar (41:07):
Make a noise free room.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (41:08):
Even if there is some noise in the room, you
can use a earplug also.
And no looking at the clockswhen you wake up in between your
sleep.
Suppose you get up for yournature's call.
Don't look at the clocks andmake your room pitch dark.
Vai Kumar (41:20):
Absolutely no lights entering in your room that means
no tv in the bedroom right yeah, definitely no tv, no bedroom
lights.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (41:28):
also no even like so switch everything, make
it pitch dark and you can useiPads if you need more to cover
your eyes.
And that's it about the sleephygiene.
Vai Kumar (41:40):
Overall.
What about the role ofmeditation, yoga and all of that
?
I think everyone tries to calmthemselves down.
You talked about the triggersto the central nervous system,
right?
How can we calm ourselves downif somebody is so hyper and they
are finding difficult to staycalm?
(42:00):
So what are some pointers that?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:02):
you would offer .
Vai Kumar (42:02):
This is my personal experience.
Actually, I had a like thetragedy happened.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:08):
if my son died actually six years ago, I faced
the worst form of grief.
Vai Kumar (42:13):
I was a poor sleeper actually.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:15):
Six to seven hours is always okay, for me.
Vai Kumar (42:17):
But even then I will always mind about my sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:20):
I'm not a very good sleeper.
Even in my younger days,meditation really helped me.
All those in my life For thepast six years at least, I would
say I've been on the pill,sedative tablet and all that
coming on and off the drugs.
But actually meditation is onething which is really promising.
It really is helping me evennow.
I stopped everything 6 monthsago and now only with meditation
(42:41):
I sleep very well 8 plus hours.
I'm getting now never in mylifetime.
This has occurred actually 8plus hours.
I'm getting a very nice sleep.
I don't sleep in the daytime, Idon't take naps.
I don't rest in the daytime.
I'm active as I get up in themorning.
Till night I'll be the same.
So this is mainly because I'msleeping good meditation really
(43:02):
helps.
That is one thing reallypromising.
That is my personal experienceand we have many types of
meditation I keep on changing.
Also, I don't follow a definitepattern.
One year I'll do one, then I'llgo for some other thing and I
keep on changing the meditation.
Everything works.
So meditation is really goodand in that we have progressive
muscle relaxation and non-sleepdepressed.
Vai Kumar (43:23):
These are all available in the.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (43:24):
Google and sleep hypnosis imagery and worry
journal.
This is one thing which is verygood also, especially imagery
and worry journal.
This is one thing which is verygood also, especially when you
have so many intrusive thoughtsin your brain, so many things
running in your brain.
I have this much that much todo tomorrow.
I have this much that much.
So you put everything in ajournal.
You take a diary, take a penand write down what all you're
going to do tomorrow.
(43:44):
Just make a checklist of whatyou're going to do the next day.
So with that, you, you finishoff.
Your brain is shutting off, soyou are set about.
This is for tomorrow.
Now I'm going to sleep.
That is how your brain issorting out your sleep, and then
you have a better sleep.
That is about the worry journal, and another thing is gratitude
journal.
This is also really helping.
(44:04):
So you write whatever things youare being grateful for in that
day.
You jot it down in a diary andthat also helps you for a better
sleep.
So that is helping me actually.
I maintain this journal and Itake meditation.
I stop all the trends and it'sreally wonderful what a profound
personal story.
Vai Kumar (44:24):
I think this is just extremely helpful in terms of um
to me personally.
I wrestle with an autoimmunecondition.
I'm in much better place now interms of how I've managed it
and lot of things that you havesaid I've personally
incorporated in my life for meto be able to sleep through the
night now, like a lot ofexercise, how I manage my
(44:47):
circadian clock in terms ofhonoring it basically not that I
manage it, I turn it on, turnit off.
I guess I'm honoring mycircadian rhythm and my
circadian clock that way.
Whatever you have said, so muchof improvement and a lot of
meditation and you have evenoffered listeners variety in
terms of you know, you don'thave to get stuck with one form
(45:08):
of meditation.
If it's working, follow it, butif you just want variety, try
different types of meditation.
That's out there, buteverything works.
You basically said a lot ofgreat pointers there in terms of
writing out worries that wayyou have just put it out there,
your mind is free from it andsetting intentions for the next
(45:28):
day in terms of doing both thegratitude journal and the worry
journal and writing out theintentions, so one can have a
very positive start the nextmorning.
So thank you so much.
I think a lot of great pointersthere, and how sleep impacts
mental health and why onewouldn't want to compromise on
(45:49):
good sleep.
You have presented on humansleep in so many places, dr
Tamar Selvi, and we areprivileged to have had your
inputs here on this podcast.
So, listeners, as always,follow the podcast, rate the
podcast, leave a review fromyour podcast app of choice,
follow me on Instagram andYouTube at vaipkumar.
(46:11):
That's V-a-i-p-k-u-m-a-r forall things digital media and
lifestyle.
Until next time, with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me why, along with drtamir, selby saying so long
thank you.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (46:28):
It was a profound experience for me,
thank you.
Vai Kumar (46:32):
Thank you so much and we remind the listeners to post
their questions on the youtubechannel when this episode gets
published.
That way, we'll have dr tamilselby uh answering that as well.
Thank you so much.
Bye.
We all are very happy when we get a good night's
sleep.
Why?
Because sleep is such acornerstone to us feeling very
healthy and leading a robustlife.
Dr Tamizh Selvi from Tamil Nadu, india, has done several
presentations on human sleep inmany different forums.
(00:20):
She is here today with us towalk us through the different
facets of human sleep, just sowe can learn and take away a
nugget or two for us toincorporate it in our own lives.
Let's get to the episode.
Hey folks, welcome to anotherepisode on podcast Freshly
Forever.
Today we have here with us thewonderful Dr Tamar Selvi from
(00:46):
Erode, tamil Nadu, india.
She is a consultantobstetrician gynecologist
practicing out of VishalamHospital.
She owns that clinic and shehas special interests in sleep
science, mental health,restricted eating and longevity.
She is also a proponent of veryhealthy eating and has, to her
(01:09):
credit, some healthy snackproduction as well, satvam.
So it's with great joy that Iwelcome Dr Tamar Selvi here to
podcast Freshly Forever.
Hey, dr Tamar Selvi, how areyou today?
Oh, I'm very fine.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (01:23):
I'm so glad to be with you today and this is a
very important topic you haveselected and I feel privileged
to present my knowledge to youand make people aware about the
importance of human sleep.
Vai Kumar (01:37):
Thank you so much for introducing me.
That's wonderful, thank you.
We all live in a day and agewhere immediacy takes precedence
over everything else, right?
So, in whatever we do, giventhis scenario, I think sleep is
something which is very, verycompromised, and I'm just so
(01:58):
thrilled to discuss this topicwith you.
Why don't you start us off byhighlighting the need for good
sleep, one of the most neglectedpart of health is sleep
nowadays.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (02:10):
So we all should agree on that, right from
teenage, even before that.
Nowadays, the current trendpeople, they tend to sleep very
less, at least one to two hoursless by what our ancestors and
seniors were doing here.
So this is a very importantimpact on the health, both
physical, mental and emotionalhealth.
So I think we should be awareof this and this is the right
(02:33):
time we talk about sleep andfollow a perfect sleep hygiene
to improve our mental andphysical health.
We are talking about human sleeptoday.
Different species havedifferent patterns of sleep, so
we're going to focus on humansleep.
Vai Kumar (02:47):
What, then, would you say?
Are there any age-relatedvariations in terms of how much
we all need sleep, say, forbabies what is it for adults and
what is it for teenagers?
I'm sure there is some patternright.
There's some suggestedguidelines.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (03:04):
Actually the normal at 15 to 25 years.
Like adolescents group we needaround 8 to 11 hours of sleep.
They can sleep a little longer,actually 8 to 11 hours.
This is adolescent group 15 to25 and the babies they can sleep
up to 18 hours.
The newborn babies and the two.
Fragmented sleep is a patternin the babies, so that is for
(03:27):
the babies.
Vai Kumar (03:28):
And 8 to 11 hours is for preteens, our age group,
that is the normal adult agegroup from 25 to say 50, 7 to 8
hours of sleep is optimal.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (03:39):
That is what we should aim for and over 50, we
take it as little old age andthose people they tend to sleep
less than six hours because ofnatural decline in the hormone
melatonin, so we will talk aboutthat later.
Mainly, the normal healthyadult sleep is seven to nine
hours.
Vai Kumar (03:59):
Okay, so you said fragmented sleep in babies, and
then the differences in adults,and then as we progress into the
stage of being a senior, itbecomes even more.
You know the needs aredifferent, right?
Are there like different stagesin which we sleep during a
particular night?
Say for us to say we really gotgood rest in a particular night
(04:24):
.
Are there like stages in sleep,and what are the different
components that make up oursleep cycle?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (04:31):
this is a very fascinating phenomenon that is
occurring in the human sleep andyou will not believe like how
much magic is happening when wesleep.
So our brain, we think it isresting, but it is not so.
It is functioning sobeautifully without our
knowledge.
It is doing its work sophenomenally and we get up
(04:52):
refreshed, following thatparticular sleep cycle.
So what is the sleep cycle?
Technically speaking, there aremajor two components, depending
upon the EEG waveforms.
So one is non-REM sleep,non-rem sleep.
The second variety is REM sleep.
So REM R-E-M rapid eye movementsleep, non-rem is non-rapid eye
(05:20):
movement sleep.
So during the night, as soon aswe close our eyes and we just
go to slumber, what immediatelyhappens is we go to a deep state
of sleep, that is, immediatelywe go to the non-REM sleep.
So that is the initial part ofsleep.
The first half of our sleepduration is almost occupied by
the non-REM sleep and the nexthalf of the sleep that is
(05:41):
towards wakening up.
From the middle part of thenight towards wakening up.
We tend to follow the non-REMsleep pattern.
But these two varieties, theyactually alternate with each
other.
It is not like strictly thefirst half is non-REM and the
second half is REM.
We actually alternate withthese cycles First non-REM and
(06:02):
then REM, then non-REM REM,non-rem REM Like that.
Each cycle is lasting foraround 90 minutes.
One cycle of REM and non-REMwill last for 90 minutes.
So in a duration of seven tonine hours we have to have at
least four to five cycles ofcomplete REM and non-REM for us
(06:22):
to wake up fresh and do ourduties in the daytime, perfectly
Like wherever we put a block inthe REM or non-REM sleep and we
disrupt the cycle somewhere aswe get up in the morning we may
do our work, but not veryproductively not as we expect.
So our energy will be definitelydown and our performance will
be definitely downsized.
Vai Kumar (06:43):
So what I mean to say is this 90 minutes of.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (06:46):
REM and non-REM cycle.
They keep alternating and innight sleep we should have at
least four to five cycles ofthis REM and non-REM occurring
for us to have a complete,refreshing sleep.
Vai Kumar (07:00):
Okay, perfect, but is it very structured?
Does every individual havenon-REM, then followed by REM,
non-rem followed by REM?
Or how is it that anydisruption even happens when we
say I did not sleep well lastnight, so what actually has
occurred?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:20):
This is interesting, actually, in the
middle of the night.
Suppose you wake up, you do anynature's call like you want to
pass urine or something, or youget a dream.
You wake up, somebody knocksthe door, some cell phone rings,
you wake up.
So whatever happens that cycleis disrupted at that time.
Vai Kumar (07:36):
It is possible that we can go back to sleep within,
say, 15 to 20 minutes.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:40):
If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will
not be considered as disrupted15 to 20 minutes.
Vai Kumar (07:47):
If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will not
be considered as disruptive.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (07:50):
Suppose you are not able to sleep for more than
30 minutes in the middle of thenight you get up and you are
not able to go to slumber again.
That time the sleep isdefinitely disrupted.
The cycle is said to bedisrupted and you are not
following the typical pattern.
You are breaking the cyclesomewhere in the night and early
morning when you get up with analarm, like, say, 3, 4 o'clock.
You keep an alarm and you getup with this blaring alarm you
(08:11):
suddenly get up.
That is not nature actually weare getting up artificially with
some alarm.
So in that case, what happens?
The?
Vai Kumar (08:18):
REM sleep is actually occurring close to awakening.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (08:21):
It is 1 to 2 hours.
Very close to the wake-up time.
We have the REM sleep.
That is very, very, veryimportant for refreshing wake-up
, so you get up early.
Set an alarm to wake up one ortwo hours earlier than you
usually get up.
That will disrupt your REMsleep and definitely is going to
have profound effects on yourdaytime performance.
Vai Kumar (08:44):
Okay, very well said.
What about the characteristicsof each of these?
Say non-REM and REM?
What attributes does a REMsleep, non-rem sleep cover?
Because we all consider sleepto be a rest and rejuvenating
mechanism, right?
So what are the attributes thatreally happen when we say we
(09:07):
are in a non-REM cycle?
Sometimes I think when I sleepI tend to remember whatever
happened during the day.
So is that something?
Is there a connection towhatever happens during a
non-REM?
And then, once you cover that,we'll just get to the other kind
of sleep pattern the REM cycle.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (09:25):
Okay, let's say like the non-REM sleep, what
all is happening in the brainduring the non-REM sleep?
Actually you know that is theinitial part of the sleep, is
the initial half of the night,so the events occurring are
whatever memory we store in thedaytime is deeply stored within
the brain cells during thisnon-REM sleep and the memory is
(09:46):
consolidated and the memoriesbecome strong, intensified and
they are stored deeply in thebrain cells and there is also
learning of detailed information, whatever we learned in the
daytime.
Vai Kumar (09:57):
That learning becomes more detailed during the
non-REM sleep and whatever welearn so that is a part there is
also learning of fine motorskills which is happening within
the non-dream sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (10:09):
Fine motor skills like writing, like
painting, any art form, whateverwe do.
The fine motor skills, they areactually fine tuning during the
non-dream sleep and also thereare memory relay is happening,
which is whatever memory we formin the daytime is the recent
memory is relayed to the.
Whatever memory we form in thedaytime, the recent, memory is
relayed to the prefrontal cortexof the brain.
Vai Kumar (10:29):
And this memory is becoming more intensified.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (10:32):
This is all happening in the non-dream sleep
and there are also someneurochemicals which are
released in the non-dream sleepand we said it is a very deep
sleep, so there is abundantrelease of serotonin which is a
hormone which is known for itsstillness and serenity, so that
hormone is profoundly seenduring the non-REP sleep.
And also there is somenoradrenaline, citabolin and
(10:54):
dopamine hormones, but mostlyserotonin is the hormone which
is produced during the non-REPsleep and also the brain cells
are completely washed off, thetoxins and the neurotoxins which
naturally we produce toxins asthe cell works, no, so those
toxins are all completely washedoff during the non-REM sleep.
So these are all the thingshappening during the non-REM
(11:17):
sleep and during the REM sleepalso, we said, this covers the
second half of the night, so,especially two hours before
waking up.
Vai Kumar (11:26):
There is rapid horizontal eye movements.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (11:28):
Though the eyelids are closed, the eyeballs
tend to move fast and there isvoluntary muscle paralysis
happening in this period.
So what is it called Voluntarymuscle paralysis?
Muscles are paralyzed.
Suppose dreams are a major partof this REM sleep.
It is a healthy part ofsleeping.
Actually, we should get dreams.
That is a healthy part of thesleep.
(11:48):
So whatever dreams we get, wedon't act on the dreams.
That is also normal.
We get the dreams we feelpanicky.
We dream like running panicking, like forgetting something,
missing a train or somethingmissing a train or something.
So that time we don't act outour dreams, we just lay in our
bed.
That is because voluntarymuscles are paralyzed and since
(12:11):
our muscles are paralyzed, weare not able to move our body,
though our mind is racing.
So that is one part of non-REMsleep.
This is very healthy actually,and most of the dreams are
non-recollectible.
That is also a common occurrenceduring the REM sleep and
whatever memory that is formedduring the non-REM sleep, this
is actually dissociated,reorganized, refreshed and they
are reconnected so that badmemories, the unwanted memories,
(12:34):
are pushed back, the wantedmemories are put forth.
So this is happening during theREM sleep.
See how important it is,because REM sleep just before
wake up, we are having more ofREM sleep.
This is nature's phenomenon ofgiving us good memories and
filtering the bad ones, andsometimes we sleep in the night
with some annoying problems,like we won't have any solution.
(12:55):
What is this?
I'm not able to solve?
Vai Kumar (12:56):
that analogy.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (12:57):
If you have a restful sleep and you wake up in
the morning, sometimes justlike that, you have a magical
solution Without even thinking.
That is because of the REMsleep.
If you have a proper REM sleep,that magical solution can be
brought up.
These are all things happeningduring the REM sleep.
And also the emotions aresmoothened out.
Actually, suppose you havedifficult emotions while going
to bed, something difficult youare facing, so the edges of the
(13:20):
emotions are smoothened out andthat becomes manageable when you
get up.
Edges of the emotions aresmoothened out and that becomes
manageable when you get up.
And also anxiety, fear, panic,which are all the features of
amygdala response, they aresmoothened during the REM sleep.
This is how I mean.
It's a very healthy part ofsleep and it's also improved
creativity is occurring duringthe REM sleep and also learning
(13:40):
of new things we are doingwithout our knowledge, and there
is also improved performance inthe following day.
These are all with healthy REMsleep.
So many things are happening.
Vai Kumar (13:50):
Does it stand that REM is more beneficial than
non-REM sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (13:55):
Yes, true, true , rem is more beneficial than
non-REM.
It is very important actually.
Vai Kumar (14:01):
Okay.
Is there any chance one mayhave more of a REM cycle than
non-REM cycle during aparticular night, say during a
non-REM cycle if I'm disturbed,does it mean that, okay, that
night, even if the non-REM isdisturbed and I'm more in a REM
cycle, sleep that I would stillbe feeling fine the next morning
(14:23):
?
Yeah maybe there everything isoverlapping.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (14:26):
It's not strictly this minute, that
minute and all that, butuninterrupted sleep where you
have this very healthy patternof the cycle going on.
Sometimes we get disturbed.
We have to be disturbedsometimes, so that is
unavoidable, but still there isa difference.
If you have a healthy sleep,the following day will be
definitely magnificent.
(14:47):
Okay, you will feel so energeticand like double power to do it
if you have a sleep deprivationeven for one night, the
following day we will definitelybe powerless and irritable, and
all that so we will be able todo the work, but still the
efficiency will be definitelyaffected.
Vai Kumar (15:10):
And doctors often tend to say okay, if you are not
sleeping good, there isdefinitely going to be a
disruption to your health over aperiod of time.
So does it have any correlationto one particular sleep cycle
being impacted, meaning whethernon-REM constantly being
impacted or REM being constantlyimpacted?
Does research indicate anythinglike that or it just doesn't
(15:32):
matter?
Irrespective of sleep cycle, ifyou're not feeling well rested
for prolonged periods of time,meaning for several days, that
automatically it takes a toll onyour body.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (15:50):
Yeah, actually there are certain disease
patterns, nightmares, we have aprofound deterioration of
non-REM sleep, and alcoholismand excess caffeine intake will
have disruption of REM sleep.
So, like that, there are someinsomnias which are typically
affecting the REM and non-REM,but commonly we speak about
insomnia, that's it.
Vai Kumar (16:08):
Okay, and what about some of us?
I don't know about you, but I'mlike slightly late to bed, but
then again I'm not like a veryearly bird all the time,
although sometimes, if there isa need, I can definitely get
myself up and running.
So you may sleep early, I maysleep late, we may wake up at
(16:28):
different times.
Why is it that different peoplefollow like different pattern,
although it's recommended thatwe all shut lights out by like
10 and wake up like nice andbright and early in the morning,
right, say, 5.30, 6.00.
So does this have anycorrelation?
Do some of us fall into certaintypes and do others fall into a
(16:50):
different bucket?
Is that why we are doing itdifferently?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (16:54):
Actually, there are two types.
One is like we sleep early, thepeople who sleep early and get
up early, people who sleep lateand get up late in the morning.
These are called chronotype.
That is, you are basicallybuilt to do that way.
You don't have to adhere towhat other people are following.
Vai Kumar (17:13):
Whatever is your pattern, nothing wrong in
adhering to it.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (17:16):
Actually, you can be a morning person or an
evening person and you canfollow your chronotype.
Nothing wrong, that isbasically what, what you are,
but you have to follow a strictschedule, like even on weekends,
follow a similar schedule.
You go to bed late, get up late.
Not one day like this, one daylike that, so that you have a
confusion in the circadian clockwhich is inside our body so
(17:36):
it's important that we followthat pattern and not just the
pattern.
Vai Kumar (17:41):
We also have to kind of adhere to the guidelines of
seven to nine hours of sleep, orwhatever that may be, depending
on the age group, correct?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (17:50):
yes, yeah, depending on the age group, we
can adhere to the number ofhours, but early or late depends
on your chronotype, so you canvery well, follow your
chronotype nothing wrong, somepeople six to seven hours is
optimal for them.
So they are genetically wiredto sleep for 6 to 7 hours only,
so that is also okay.
That is a window period.
Actually, less than 6 hours isonly abnormal, so 6 to 7 hours
(18:13):
is also normal for people.
They are poor sleepers and theycan function very well, with
that amount of sleep, that isalso okay.
Vai Kumar (18:22):
What, then, about any organ?
Just like we all rest andrecover?
Right?
You talked about the niceraspects in terms of us
recollecting, getting morecreative and things like that.
What about any organdetoxification or anything that
might be happening at night whenwe sleep?
So that is the whole rest andrecovery process, right?
(18:42):
If we all sleep at differenttimes and wake up at different
times, do you think any of thatis getting impacted?
You're asking about thediseases.
Like we don't sleep Even.
That, say, there isdetoxification of pancreas,
there's detoxification of organs, things like that.
So if we all sleep at differenttimes based on our chronotype,
(19:06):
can our body adjust by itself?
Or do you think there ispotential for us to give
ourselves room to catch somediseases if we are not following
certain pattern?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (19:20):
Yeah, this chronotype, we don't have to
bother, Only the number of hourswhich we sleep.
The quality and the quantity ofsleep is very important, Like 7
to 9 hours, maybe 7 to 9 hoursuninterrupted sleep in the night
.
That is what we are aiming for.
If we have that continuoussleep, then systems will be
functioning very well.
All the physical and the mentalsystem can be functioning very
(19:42):
well without any hitches.
Suppose, if we chronically getsleep deprived I mean less than
six hours for more than sixmonths then we'll have a
profound effect on the varioussystems of our body.
You will be like amazed to findall the systems are getting
affected with chronic sleepdeprivation Not once or twice,
but chronic sleep deprivation.
I'm talking about regular sleepdeprivation.
Vai Kumar (20:06):
Okay, and you brought up already the circadian rhythm
, the circadian clock.
We often hear that goingagainst the body clock is not
advisable.
Can you talk about the triggersof the circadian rhythm, the
triggers of the circadian clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (20:23):
Circadian clock is the biological clock that is
fit inside our body.
It keeps ticking all the 24hours and there are hormones
which influences the circadianclock and wakefulness hormone
and sleep hormone.
So they are divided intowakefulness hormone and sleep
hormone.
Wakefulness hormones they startpouring in once we wake up from
(20:43):
the sleep.
They are adenosine, cortisoland noradrenaline.
These are all the wakefulnesshormones and the sleep hormone
is only one hormone.
So these are the maininfluences of circadian clock.
Whatever we do is based on thesehormone outputs.
Whatever we do we wake up,exercise, be in the sunlight,
take coffee, alcohol, the foodintake everything influences
(21:06):
these hormones.
They make these hormones comefrom the cells and then they add
to produce wakefulness and thensleep in the night.
These are all the maininfluences of circadian clock,
adenosine, cortisol,noradrenaline and the night
hormone melatonin.
Vai Kumar (21:24):
Okay, the night hormone?
Okay.
In other words, it is best thatwe honor our body's clock and
follow this pattern that yousuggested earlier.
Whatever be your chronotype,follow going to bed at a certain
time, wake up at a certain time, be it weekday, weekend,
whatever.
That may be right.
So, just so, all theseprocesses that you mentioned,
(21:45):
all the release of thesehormones that are occurring
throughout the 24 hours in a day, it's not disturbed.
Is that a correct understanding?
Yes, perfect.
What about temperatureinfluence on sleep?
I think some of us like it cold, some of us like it hot, and
(22:05):
women during the age oftransition from perimenopause
into menopause?
That seems to be another story.
How would you addresstemperature influence on sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:17):
Yeah, temperature is the most
important and the strongestinfluencer of the circadian
clock.
So this is the strongesttrigger for the circadian clock.
What happens we have?
We talk about two temperatures.
One is the core, bodytemperature which is within our
body, the next one is theexternal temperature.
Vai Kumar (22:34):
So, both have to be in a different, in a particular
way.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:37):
So that we wake up and we sleep so early
morning by around 4 to 5 am.
Vai Kumar (22:43):
this wakefulness hormone, adenosine, is going to
be profoundly increased in thesystem.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (22:48):
It's going to abundantly pour into the system
naturally and our bodytemperature raises by around 1
to 2 degrees Celsius at thattime.
The increase in the core bodytemperature happens at around 5
am in the morning.
So we have to get up.
That is one strongest triggerfor us to wake up.
So if we observe that, we willdefinitely wake up.
That is one strongest triggerfor us to wake up.
So if we observe that, we willdefinitely wake up.
(23:08):
That is why, without anything,we can wake up at around 4 to 5
am.
That is, the core bodytemperature rising is the
natural trigger for thewakefulness hormone and we wake
up at that time.
And as night falls, after like7 pm in the night, the core body
temperature falls by around 1degree Celsius and melatonin
hormone is made to secrete inthe body, in the brain.
(23:29):
So the melatonin hormone takesover the wakefulness of the
adenosine cortisol, everythingand then the sleep ensures.
Actually this is the normalpattern which is occurring in
the body sleeping To initiatesleep and to maintain the proper
sleep around 18 to 18.3 degreesCelsius sleep and to maintain
the proper sleep around 18 to18.3 degrees Celsius.
(23:51):
The science says that we have tohave a room temperature ideally
at 18 to 18.3 degrees Celsiusfor initiating and maintaining a
healthy sleep.
That is during the night.
As soon as you get up, thenormal temperature rises and you
have to have a cold shower.
The cold shower just for a fewminutes.
In the cold shower your corebody tends to, your body
temperature tends to risefurther and this will have more
(24:12):
increase in the body temperatureand more wakefulness.
So it is good to have a coldshower as soon as you get up and
by nightfall, before going tosleep, you can have a warm
shower.
That decreases the bodytemperature.
Actually paradoxical, but itdoes.
It decreases the bodytemperature and helps the
melatonin secretion Warm showerbefore sleeping and a cold
shower soon after waking.
Vai Kumar (24:34):
Oh, that's a great tip right there, because no one
would fathom that the warm helpsyou sleep and the cold helps
you wake up.
So I guess I think once yourcore body temperature is set to
like a normal pattern for you tofunction optimally, I think
that also triggers yourdigestive fire and everything
(24:55):
else, so you can potentiallyhave like a great start to your
day.
That's wonderful.
Yeah, great tips right there.
We'll take a little break andwe'll cover the rest of it when
we get right back.
So we discussed about thecircadian clock and the
temperature influence.
Right, so you said 18.3 Celsius, so about 65 to 68 Fahrenheit
(25:19):
for listeners used to theFahrenheit measure.
What about the role of sunlightand also the time when we wake
up?
So we all say the morning sunis beneficial and the going down
sun is beneficial.
So what about us exposingourselves to sunlight and how
(25:39):
does it influence our body clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (25:41):
So the sunlight , early morning sun, we begin to
expose to the morning sun foraround 35 to 45 minutes in the
bright sun.
This will actually the sunlightwill reflect to trigger the
cells of the retina in theeyeball and these cells will
again go back to the brain cells, trigger the brain cells again
(26:02):
to produce more of the adenosinehormone.
So the wakefulness hormone isprofoundly outpouring when we
get exposed to the sun.
So that is what is happening inthe early morning sunlight.
That is around that orange,yellow, red, blue, white
spectrum of light.
So that activates the adenosineand that in turn activates the
(26:23):
neural cells, brain neurons, andthey become a beautiful
firework happening within thebrain.
And you have to allow thatfirework to happen for every day
so that you get more ofwakefulness and become more
alert and more refreshed bygetting exposed to the sound,
Even if the weather is cloudy.
A little longer exposure, likearound one hour, is enough to do
(26:46):
this job.
And please don't wearsunglasses because it will block
the rays coming onto the retina, so don't wear a sunglass while
you're going for walking, andalso the power glass.
If you're already wearing apower glass, that will help you
focus the sunlight on the retina.
Vai Kumar (27:02):
So that is better.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (27:03):
Actually, you are wearing a constant power
glass short sight one.
So that is is good.
You can wear the power glassbut no sunglasses.
So that is about the morningsunlight and you do exercise
along with sunlight.
It will even more activate thewakefulness hormone and it will
make you more refreshed.
And about the evening sun, thefalling sun, this also has the
(27:25):
same spectrum of color, likeorange, yellow, red and mild
blue and white spectrum.
So what?
The same color like the morningsun, but this will have an
opposite effect on the braincells, it will again go and
reflect on the retina and thatwill trigger the brain cells to
produce melatonin in the evening.
So after the sunset.
Vai Kumar (27:46):
The same sunlight makes your body to produce more
of melatonin in the evening, soafter the sunset.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (27:48):
The same sunlight makes your body to
produce more of melatonin, sothis is the natural thing
happening when you view theevening sunlight for around 10
to 15 minutes at the time ofsunset, it is very good for
improving your sleep.
It will make your melatoninmore secreted in your body, so
you are gadget oriented, you canmake more gadgets.
It is better to view theevening sunlight also for around
(28:11):
10 to 15 minutes so that younegate the bad effect of the
blue light.
Vai Kumar (28:17):
Okay, that's wonderful to know how the light
on the retina influences both usbeing more receptive to what
happens in the day, in terms ofwaking up more and be more
active, and also how we, how itbrings back our system down in
the evening in terms ofmelatonin secretion.
What about lifestyle aspects?
(28:39):
And you also touched upon theeffect of blue light.
So when people are exposed toso much of light, blue light,
you are saying getting out andexposing yourself to the evening
sun is more beneficial, right?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (28:54):
Yes, actually the blue and white light is
supposed to activate your brain.
Early morning, as soon as youget up, you have a cold shower
and switch on all the white,bright lights and blue lights in
your house.
That will help you even beforegoing to the sunlight for
exercising.
You can switch on all the whitelights in your house.
That will have a very goodeffect on the wakefulness
(29:17):
hormones.
That is one thing that clearlysays the white and blue spectrum
of light is activating yourbrain.
The same thing is happeningwhen you get exposed to the
gadgets like TV, computer,laptop, mobile phones.
That is detrimental to thesleep.
Actually, the melatonin ishampered with that.
So while going to bed that is atleast one to two hours before
(29:37):
going to bed.
Stop all these gadgets and moveall these gadgets away from
your bedroom.
Bed is only for like sleep.
You don't have these gadgets inthe bedroom.
Even if they are switched off,they tend to emit the light, so
they have profound incapacity onthe melatonin secretion.
So this will clearly postponeyour sleep and it will also have
a bad effect on the quantityand quality of this nightlight
(29:59):
setting.
Before going to bed, like one totwo hours before that, you
switch off all the gadgets andyou switch on the yellow dim
lights.
Yellow dim lights are supposedto improve your sleep and
produce more melatonin.
So have your light settings intwo modes.
One is bright white, the nextis an yellow dim mode.
You switch on those lights inthe evening time so that you get
prepared for your sleep.
(30:19):
So that is about the next.
Vai Kumar (30:21):
Okay, what about lifestyle aspects like how we
eat, what we do for exercise,what is the role of food,
exercise and also other triggerslike caffeine and alcohol in
our system when it comes to howwell we are able to sleep and
rest?
And you know, overall feelhealthy, the normal food intake.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (30:45):
We are supposed to adhere to the pattern of
sunlight the rising sun and thefalling sun.
So when the sun rises, starteating.
When the sun sets, stop eating.
So after 6pm it is better toavoid eating anything except for
drinking water.
This 3-4 hours before bedtimeyou are clearly avoiding any
(31:05):
food intake.
This will have a very goodeffect on your sleep.
It is going to improve yourmalnutrient secretion and also
improve your growth hormone,which is very good for your cell
repair, regeneration and allthose things.
This happens only when you stopeating 3 hours clearly before
your sleep.
So stop eating 3 hours beforesleep time.
Vai Kumar (31:26):
This is about the normal food.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (31:28):
And so good news for coffee lovers is coffee
is good.
It's a very good CNS boost, sowe all know it is a CNS
stimulant, a 12-hour systemstimulant.
It is going to have a very goodeffect on your alertness and
wakefulness.
It is good.
So I advise you to take coffeeand a half to two hours after
waking up.
Clearly, avoid coffee 10 to 14hours before your bedtime.
(31:51):
So that is what the sciencesays.
Why one and a half to two hoursafter waking up?
Why delay that coffee?
That is because you woke up andalready your adenosine cortisol
is at the peak level till 8 amin the morning, around 8 am.
Till that time it is already inthe peak.
Vai Kumar (32:08):
It is outpouring in your body on its own.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:10):
If you take coffee soon after waking it will
have a supraphysiological levelof this adenosine hormone.
So what does it do?
Vai Kumar (32:20):
After some time this will have a competitive
inhibition, competitive receptorinhibition with the adenosine
receptors and scientifically itis proven that it is going to
produce a caffeine crush.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:30):
That is a mid-morning.
You feel very sleepy and theeffect of this caffeine is gone
if you take it soon after wakingup.
Vai Kumar (32:39):
So you need another coffee or tea to pep up yourself
If you delay your coffee forone and a half to two hours
after waking this doesn't happenWith one coffee or one tea.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (32:46):
you can manage the whole day.
You don't have to take moredoses of this.
Caffeine I mean coffee, tea,cocoa I mean cola, coca-cola,
chocolates, everything whicheveris brown in color, we should
say so they are all havingcaffeine, not only coffee.
So that is one thing.
Vai Kumar (33:04):
And why avoiding coffee 10 to 14 hours before
bedtime.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (33:07):
That is because the effect of caffeine in the
blood is going to last for 10 to14 hours after your intake.
You keep on having coffee till2 pm, 5 pm in the evening,
coffee tea.
So this is going to have aprofound effect on your
malnutrition.
It is going to block yourmalnutrition To avoid that at
least by 11 am in the morning,10, 11 am in the morning.
(33:29):
If you're going to sleep at 10pm, then avoid coffee after 10
am in the morning, 12 hours atleast.
Your metabolizing capacity isonly such that for 10 to 14
hours it is going to stay inyour blood.
So better, don't have thateffect and avoid late hours in
the morning.
About alcohol alcohol is betterto avoid for 10 to 12 hours
(33:50):
before sleep.
It is going to stay in thesystem in your blood for such a
long time.
So you drink in the evening andnight.
Definitely you are going tohave a very poor sleep pattern.
You might be in the bed forlonger time but your sleep
quality is so much disorganizedyour REM sleep is going to be
impact purely and you're goingto have a fragmented sleep and
(34:12):
chronically, if this happens,you're going to have
relationship issues like mooddisturbance, irritability,
psychological and all thosethings, even suicidal tendencies
and increased risk of stroke,parkinson's disease and all
diseases you're going to havebecause of the sleep disturbance
.
It's not directly because ofalcohol, it is because of the
sleep disturbance due to alcohol.
Vai Kumar (34:31):
So if at all you want to.
Consume alcohol you should bein the mornings After 10, same
like coffee.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (34:37):
So your blood should completely clear that
from your system.
So don't take it in the eveningor at the night time.
Vai Kumar (34:46):
Everyone tends to drink during dinner time, so
that's clearly somethingincorrect that we all are doing.
And what about insomnia?
Now that we have focused somuch on the quality of sleep and
what makes up the sleep cycleand so much about what are all
the factors that are dominant interms of one getting a good
(35:08):
quality sleep, I think severalof us wrestle with insomnia,
sleeplessness, right, andinsomnia plays a great role in
mental health.
You are a huge proponent ofmental health as well.
Why don't you get us startedabout insomnia?
Why does this happen?
And also the role of insomniaand mental health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (35:31):
Insomnia is defined as less than six hours
of sleep every night for morethan six months.
So that is the definition of.
We have broadly two types ofinsomnia.
One is initiation insomnia,where you find it difficult to
initiate your sleep.
The next one is maintenanceinsomnia you sleep well but you
get up middle of the night notable to sleep again.
(35:52):
Both are not good for yourhealth.
You're going to have profoundhealth issues not only on the
mental health, but also yourphysical health also.
Vai Kumar (36:03):
Regarding the mental health, if you have your chronic
insomnia, your physical health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (36:05):
Also, regarding the mental health, if you have
your chronic insomnia, then youwould have a decreased cognitive
quotient, decreased ability tolearn new things there is a 40%
decreased ability to learn newthings and ADHD you are more
prone for ADHD and there isclearly mood changes, declined
memory and there's areward-seeking attitude.
Vai Kumar (36:27):
Clinical depression suicidal thoughts, suicidal
attempts and increased addiction, and there is also faster onset
of Alzheimer's disease andincreased risk of Parkinsonism.
And stroke.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (36:36):
This is about the mental health.
It also has effect on thecardiovascular health.
There is 200% increased risk ofcardiovascular disease and
heart attacks and there isincreased risk of coron disease
and heart attacks and there isincreased risk of coronary
artery calcifications and thereis also risk of systemic
hypertension, insomnia and roadtraffic accidents.
This is really alarming 70%increased risk.
(36:58):
It is more than alcoholism.
Actually, sleep deprivation ismore dangerous than alcoholism.
Why?
Because when they are drivingsleep deprived people, when they
are driving, they have microsleep, tendency to micro sleep.
The eyelids close for 1 to 2seconds.
That time accidents may happen.
Other things they have a latereaction for vehicles
(37:19):
approaching them.
So whenever a vehicle is comingin front of them, they have a
late reaction Little latereaction.
Vai Kumar (37:25):
That is responsible for majority of the accidents.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (37:27):
That is what science says.
Clearly, there is obesitypattern occurring within soma.
This is because there is analtered ratio of these hormones
called ghrelin and leptin.
Ghrelin is a hunger hormone,leptin is a satiety hormone.
So there is more hunger,hormone security without your
knowledge, and there is morecalorie intake per day 200 to
(37:50):
400 kilocalories are consumedmore in insomnias and the brain
is addicted to choose highcarbohydrate, sugary, salty and
fatty foods.
So you lose the capacity thecortex loses the capacity to
categorize the food types, soyou tend to sort to these junk
foods, and there is increasedfat deposition and decreased
(38:10):
lean muscle mass.
So this is all proven in thescience.
And what about immunity?
Insomnia is also decreasingyour natural immunity by 70
percent and you're more pronefor infection okay, and
malignancy also?
Vai Kumar (38:27):
does this mean then one can get autoimmune diseases
from chronic insomnia?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (38:35):
Yes, and also there is increased risk of
malignancies.
Who has told that it recognizesinsomnia as a probable
carcinogen?
This is because of theunfavorable gene modification
leading to cancers of the bowel,breast and prostate, those who
already have cancers and thesesurvivors are doomed to with
aggressive tumor progressionbecause of faster replication of
(38:58):
cancer cells.
This is all due to lack ofsleep.
Vai Kumar (39:01):
Okay, and reproductive health especially
yeah.
So reproductive health.
So that's also.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (39:08):
In males there is a definite decrease in
virility by a decade.
Actually they theirtestosterone levels.
When taken, it is equal to aman who is 10 years older to him
, so he becomes aged in hisreproductive capacity.
What about women?
This is about how is there arewomen?
(39:29):
There is no such data.
It is only about therelationship issues and like no
disturbance and all that clearthing is, for the male only,
okay.
Vai Kumar (39:39):
And what about then?
An optimal sleep hygiene.
What would you recommend foroptimal sleep hygiene?
Would that?
Would that be meditation?
What?
What other factors can helpsomeone achieve great sleep
hygiene?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (39:54):
So sleep hygiene, this is the most
important part of the wholepodcast.
We are doing so.
You follow a regular sleeppattern.
Go to bed at the same time,wake up at the same time, even
at the weekends, and follow yourchronotype.
If you are a morning person, beit.
If you are an evening person,be it.
If you are an evening person,be it.
Avoid caffeine 12 to 14 hoursbefore bedtime and 2 hours after
(40:18):
waking.
Avoid alcohol 10 to 12 hoursbefore sleep.
Pull the room temperature to18.3 degrees Celsius.
Take a warm shower before sleepand set up your lights yellow
and orange lights, I mean.
Change your light pattern atleast one hour before sleep.
Switch on these lights.
Avoid eating or drinking threehours before.
(40:41):
I mean avoid eating anythingthree hours before bedtime.
Avoid a high carbohydrate nightmeal.
Remove all the electronicgadgets from your bedroom, even
if they are switched off.
Use the same bed and pillow.
Go to bed only when you arereally sleepy.
Be in the other room or dosomething else.
Hear some music, read something.
Hearing music and readingsomething from the textbook is
(41:02):
really allowable.
You go to bed only when youreally feel sleepy.
Vai Kumar (41:07):
Make a noise free room.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (41:08):
Even if there is some noise in the room, you
can use a earplug also.
And no looking at the clockswhen you wake up in between your
sleep.
Suppose you get up for yournature's call.
Don't look at the clocks andmake your room pitch dark.
Vai Kumar (41:20):
Absolutely no lights entering in your room that means
no tv in the bedroom right yeah, definitely no tv, no bedroom
lights.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (41:28):
also no even like so switch everything, make
it pitch dark and you can useiPads if you need more to cover
your eyes.
And that's it about the sleephygiene.
Vai Kumar (41:40):
Overall.
What about the role ofmeditation, yoga and all of that
?
I think everyone tries to calmthemselves down.
You talked about the triggersto the central nervous system,
right?
How can we calm ourselves downif somebody is so hyper and they
are finding difficult to staycalm?
(42:00):
So what are some pointers that?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:02):
you would offer .
Vai Kumar (42:02):
This is my personal experience.
Actually, I had a like thetragedy happened.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:08):
if my son died actually six years ago, I faced
the worst form of grief.
Vai Kumar (42:13):
I was a poor sleeper actually.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:15):
Six to seven hours is always okay, for me.
Vai Kumar (42:17):
But even then I will always mind about my sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (42:20):
I'm not a very good sleeper.
Even in my younger days,meditation really helped me.
All those in my life For thepast six years at least, I would
say I've been on the pill,sedative tablet and all that
coming on and off the drugs.
But actually meditation is onething which is really promising.
It really is helping me evennow.
I stopped everything 6 monthsago and now only with meditation
(42:41):
I sleep very well 8 plus hours.
I'm getting now never in mylifetime.
This has occurred actually 8plus hours.
I'm getting a very nice sleep.
I don't sleep in the daytime, Idon't take naps.
I don't rest in the daytime.
I'm active as I get up in themorning.
Till night I'll be the same.
So this is mainly because I'msleeping good meditation really
(43:02):
helps.
That is one thing reallypromising.
That is my personal experienceand we have many types of
meditation I keep on changing.
Also, I don't follow a definitepattern.
One year I'll do one, then I'llgo for some other thing and I
keep on changing the meditation.
Everything works.
So meditation is really goodand in that we have progressive
muscle relaxation and non-sleepdepressed.
Vai Kumar (43:23):
These are all available in the.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (43:24):
Google and sleep hypnosis imagery and worry
journal.
This is one thing which is verygood also, especially imagery
and worry journal.
This is one thing which is verygood also, especially when you
have so many intrusive thoughtsin your brain, so many things
running in your brain.
I have this much that much todo tomorrow.
I have this much that much.
So you put everything in ajournal.
You take a diary, take a penand write down what all you're
going to do tomorrow.
(43:44):
Just make a checklist of whatyou're going to do the next day.
So with that, you, you finishoff.
Your brain is shutting off, soyou are set about.
This is for tomorrow.
Now I'm going to sleep.
That is how your brain issorting out your sleep, and then
you have a better sleep.
That is about the worry journal, and another thing is gratitude
journal.
This is also really helping.
(44:04):
So you write whatever things youare being grateful for in that
day.
You jot it down in a diary andthat also helps you for a better
sleep.
So that is helping me actually.
I maintain this journal and Itake meditation.
I stop all the trends and it'sreally wonderful what a profound
personal story.
Vai Kumar (44:24):
I think this is just extremely helpful in terms of um
to me personally.
I wrestle with an autoimmunecondition.
I'm in much better place now interms of how I've managed it
and lot of things that you havesaid I've personally
incorporated in my life for meto be able to sleep through the
night now, like a lot ofexercise, how I manage my
(44:47):
circadian clock in terms ofhonoring it basically not that I
manage it, I turn it on, turnit off.
I guess I'm honoring mycircadian rhythm and my
circadian clock that way.
Whatever you have said, so muchof improvement and a lot of
meditation and you have evenoffered listeners variety in
terms of you know, you don'thave to get stuck with one form
(45:08):
of meditation.
If it's working, follow it, butif you just want variety, try
different types of meditation.
That's out there, buteverything works.
You basically said a lot ofgreat pointers there in terms of
writing out worries that wayyou have just put it out there,
your mind is free from it andsetting intentions for the next
(45:28):
day in terms of doing both thegratitude journal and the worry
journal and writing out theintentions, so one can have a
very positive start the nextmorning.
So thank you so much.
I think a lot of great pointersthere, and how sleep impacts
mental health and why onewouldn't want to compromise on
(45:49):
good sleep.
You have presented on humansleep in so many places, dr
Tamar Selvi, and we areprivileged to have had your
inputs here on this podcast.
So, listeners, as always,follow the podcast, rate the
podcast, leave a review fromyour podcast app of choice,
follow me on Instagram andYouTube at vaipkumar.
(46:11):
That's V-a-i-p-k-u-m-a-r forall things digital media and
lifestyle.
Until next time, with yetanother interesting guest and
yet another interesting topic.
It's me why, along with drtamir, selby saying so long
thank you.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi (46:28):
It was a profound experience for me,
thank you.
Vai Kumar (46:32):
Thank you so much and we remind the listeners to post
their questions on the youtubechannel when this episode gets
published.
That way, we'll have dr tamilselby uh answering that as well.
Thank you so much.
Bye.
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