July 30, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode of Frictionless Marketing, host Paul Dyer welcomes chats with Amy Atwood, Vice President of Regional Communication and Philanthropy at Takeda Pharmaceuticals. With over 25 years in corporate communications, Amy shares her journey, insights on the evolving pharmaceutical industry, advice for communications professionals, and perspectives on purpose-driven work and DEI.
Together, Paul and Amy recap key themes from the Fierce Pharma PR Communications Summit East, including the impact of AI, storytelling, health equity, and the significance of having communicators at decision-making tables. Moreover, Amy discusses the importance of wellness and reverse mentorship in the workplace.
00:00 Introduction to Frictionless Marketing
00:01 Meet Amy Atwood: A Journey in Corporate Communications
01:01 Key Themes from the Fierce Pharma PR Communications Summit
01:44 The Role of AI in Communications
03:59 Health Equity and DEI in the Pharmaceutical Industry
06:15 The Importance of Communications in Business Strategy
20:20 Crisis Communications: Best Practices and Insights
22:19 Embracing Failures and Learning from Them
23:07 The Future of Communications: Measurement and Analytics
29:10 Wellness and Work-Life Balance for Communicators
32:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Frictionless Marketing is a production from /prompt, the leading earned first creative marketing and communications agency. Grounded in the present, yet attuned to the future.
To learn more about how to make marketing frictionless, purchase Friction Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is a production from /prompt, the leading earned first creative marketing and communications agency. Grounded in the present, yet attuned to the future.
Produced and distributed by Simpler Media Productions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing,where we explore the latest
(00:02):
trends and challenges in theworld of marketing and beyond.
. Today we're joined by Amy Atwood, Vice President of Regional Communication and
Philanthropy at Takeda Pharmaceuticals.
With over 25 years in corporatecommunications, Amy has championed
transparency, authenticity,and the integration of patient
perspectives throughout her career.
Her journey from roles at Sanofi to hercurrent leadership at Takeda, reflects
(00:25):
a commitment to empowering individualsthrough clear, timely communication.
Today we'll explore Amy's insights onthe evolving pharmaceutical industry,
her advice for budding communicationsprofessionals and her perspective on
purpose-driven work, diversity, equity,inclusion, and the impact of augmented
intelligence and communication strategies.
(00:46):
Join us as we delve intothese pivotal topics.
Live from fierce pharma, PR andComm Summit East with Amy Atwood.
Amy, thank you so much for joining us.
We've now just completely wrappedthe last session at the Fierce
Pharma PR Communications Summit East.
I'm really looking forward tohearing your thoughts in this show.
Specifically, what we're gonna do is justrecap for our listeners what they missed
(01:09):
by not being here, what the key themesof the conference were, any important
takeaways, and just general learningsand conversations that happened here.
So thank you for agreeingto be on the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Paul.
This has been such anenergizing, inspiring two days.
It was really jam-packed.
(01:30):
Going from 9:00 AM until 6:00 PM withsometimes two tracks at the same time.
So there was a lot ofinformation to absorb.
There was, and a lot of verydifferent topics covered.
And then also some themes thatdefinitely came up repeatedly.
Obviously, AI was a big topic inmany different ways, but what else,
(01:52):
what other themes emerged for you?
It was really interesting because,like you said, there were some things
that came up over and over again.
Transparency, if I had a dime for everytime we said we need to be transparent
in our communications and our planningand everything that we're doing.
Authenticity.
(02:13):
AI over and over again.
Human-centric.
I think think the fact that corporations'voices have evolved over time, and that
really goes back to the title of thisconference was driving the next evolution,
igniting innovation, powering impact,and the way that we're going to be.
(02:36):
We have been evolving.
I've been in this industry almost thirtyyears, and when I think back to some
of the ways that we did things andactually having to learn a corporate
voice that was almost computer-like.
And now we are the opposite and we'retrying to get our leaders to be humans.
(02:59):
[Paul laughs] That's one ofthe things that people really
spoke about over and over.
Yeah.
But I hadn't put it in that contextin my own mind of juxtaposing with
many of these corporate leaders,they also grew up in an environment
where they were taught to roboticizethemselves, largely because they were
speaking to institutional audiences.
(03:19):
Now, of course, through consumerization,both in the patient side of what we do
as well as the role of pharmaceuticalindustry in the larger societal
discourse, and retail investors.
It's like, oh my gosh, we actuallyhave to talk to people again.
And we have to talk about people.
Another theme that there were multiplesessions on was storytelling, or,
(03:42):
as you were saying, story making.
We need to really make sure that we'realways, in our industry, putting patients
at the center and telling the storiesof those patients and those people in
that - going back to it - authentic,transparent way that can resonate.
(04:03):
Another theme that came up again andagain, actually two different distinct
themes that people often tie together.
So I actually feel a little badsaying them in the same breath, but
health equity - I'll pause - and DENI.
And making sure that we are, how we'retelling our stories, and ensuring
(04:30):
that our patients can get access.
Mm-Hmm.
And how we are making sure that a patientsees themselves in the stories that
we're telling so that we are findingpatients from all walks of life and
all types of patients so that we canbe using those examples for others.
(04:55):
Yeah, and there was a great quote,and I know he was borrowing it from
somebody else, but Sri Ramaswamifrom GSK was the one who said,
"You can't be what you can't see."
Which I thought was a reallygreat quote in this area.
And then of course, he led the panelwhere Tiffany West at Gilead really
had an incredible story about thehealth equity journey there from sort
(05:16):
of moving out of the foundation andbeing like a little bit of the frosting
on the cake instead of the cake intothis is now central to the business.
Of course, that's I guess where we wouldall aspire to this work landing, even
though oftentimes it seems to be a littlebit of a difficult road to get there.
Yeah, I think one of the things that Iheard repeatedly when we were talking in
(05:38):
different sessions about health equity ismaking sure that it's not transactional.
That it's consistent and thatit's embedded in the business.
And that really brings to mind theimportance of us as communicators
(05:59):
being business leaders.
We are not a support function.
We are not simply enabling others.
We are strategists.
We are thought partners.
We are advisors.
And that is included in thehealth equity space as well.
(06:19):
Yeah, and there's definitely anoticeable difference when you,
picking up that thread, betweenpeople saying communications was
consulted after a decision was made.
That's our worst.
Right.
Or, communications wasasked to communicate about
a decision that was made.
Moving first into communicationswas asked what will be the
(06:40):
communications impact of this decision?
To now, finally, sounds like somepeople are being asked what will be
the business impact of this decision?
And that just points to thecentrality of communications
in everything we do these days.
Absolutely.
I think it's that making sure thatwe're tying our communications to
(07:01):
business outcomes is so critical.
Another thing that came up repeatedlyin different sessions of all
different topics was communicationshaving a seat at the table.
And I loved one of the speakers talkingabout how she invited herself and how
she doesn't quite have a seat at thetable, but pulled up her folding chair.
(07:25):
And I think that thatwas a great visual there.
It very much varies acrosscompanies and it doesn't correlate
to a company size or anything.
It's one of the things I look for in acompany is do the leaders overall - the
CEO, the senior leadership team - believein the importance of communications and
(07:50):
empower their communicators to have a seatat that table from the very beginning,
from ideation, from brainstorming abouta business solution, and to carrying it
through so that it doesn't end up, asyou were saying, those other examples.
I think COVID, I am constantlyharking back to some of the
(08:15):
silver linings of COVID.
The importance of communicationsand communicators really
came to light in COVID.
I don't know any stats about this, but Iwould be willing to bet that if you did
look, there were so many companies thatI saw, at least in the Boston area, that
(08:38):
were hiring communicators during thattime, who were creating new communications
jobs because they saw that it was reallyneeded to have communicators at the
table to help the company through that.
First of all, I totally agree.
I think COVID, the communications impactwas that communications was the only way
(09:00):
to stay in touch with employees, right?
To stay in touch with customers,to stay connected anybody
outside of your four walls.
And a lot of business leadersrealized in that moment, they
weren't actually very good at it.
Because they had a way of workingthat was reliant on being in person
people and when they weren't in personwith people anymore, it was like, I
(09:21):
don't know how to operate like this.
And so all of a sudden they did haveto both improve themselves and surround
themselves with good communicators.
But I wanna pick back up on thistheme because the bringing a
folding chair to the table thing.
Mm-Hmm.
I thought was, I laughed when she said it.
I believe her name isMel from Mallinckrodt?
I don't know her personally,but I saw her on stage.
I thought she was great.
I brought it up the subsequentconversation with Tanya Wymer from Biogen
(09:44):
saying, what do you think about this?
They were sort of making the case of we'removing from having a folding chair on the
path to getting that upholstered chair.
And Tanya's response was she thoughtshould only have a folding chair.
Interesting.
Because said that the folding chairallows us as communicators to then
leave the boardroom and go among theemployees and hear what they really think.
(10:08):
And leave the building and go sitamong patients, doctors, and advocates,
and hear what they really think.
Cause we can bring folding chair withus everywhere we go, and then we have
that external credibility when wecome back into a boardroom that is
oftentimes a little bit insular anddoesn't hear from those audiences.
I thought that was a prettyinsightful take on it.
(10:29):
I absolutely appreciate that and do agree.
We need to be the eyes andears for our fellow leaders.
That said, I think we need to be seenas equally important leaders who deserve
a full, regular seat at the table, too.
So I think it goes both ways.
(10:50):
So let's not take the, uh, the foldingversus upholstered chair too literally
or too far, I guess, you're saying.
Yeah, that makes sense.
At conferences like this, I feel likeit's really difficult, both for the
presenters, the panelists, etcetera,trying to obviously impression
on people, impart some wisdom.
But it's difficult 'cause you don't knowwhat level the audience is coming in at.
(11:11):
So, how do you set academic foundationslike ways of thinking about things, but
then also give really practical advice?
So, elementary schoolgrading, A, B, C, D, or F.
How do you think our presenters did thisweek on walking that tightrope between
setting foundations, big picture, academicversus like really practical advice?
(11:34):
Yeah.
I see it as the 101 classversus the master class.
And I think different sessionsdid it better than others.
And I think that different people herewere looking for different things.
Some were really looking for the strategyand the high-level insights, whereas
(11:58):
others are starting out and are lookingfor that tactical, how do I do this?
I'll give one example related toone of the most frequent things
we've already mentioned, AI.
There were certainly some panels thatwe had that were very, overall, high
(12:21):
level, what AI can do and going forwardin the future, there was nothing from
that that you could then take anddo when you got back to the office.
Then, we had, one of the thingsthat I really appreciated about the
conference this go round, I've attendedfor many years, was that there were
(12:45):
round tables that were small groupdiscussions, and one of the round
tables that I attended was on AI.
And in that session there wereconcrete examples shared, even walking
through this is this type of ChatGPT.
This is a free version.
(13:07):
This is where you find it.
And walked through taking a pressrelease, asking it, explaining the
prompt, walking through how you haveit in two seconds, create an internal
article for your audience on that subject.
So really concrete, tacticalexamples, but it got to both sides.
(13:31):
Especially with AI, I think that'swhat's just absolutely critical is
it's fine for us to have big pictureconversations, but we don't need
to have a vision for technology.
We need to know how do we applythese things in the daily work.
And people are still scared ofAI and scared, is this going
(13:53):
to make it so I lose my job?
Am I going to be replaced by the computer?
Is my company going to seethis as a synergy thing?
And oh, now your comms teamthat was ten can be two.
I think one of the things thatplays into that is that, yes, it
(14:15):
is progressing at the speed oflight, but it is still so early.
And the bias that is inherent inmany of the gen AI tools because
it's taking from the internet.
Even in some of the different areas ofmedicine, we haven't done enough research.
(14:39):
There isn't even data out therefor certain types of people and
different things that if the data'snot out there, it's certainly not
on the internet, and so it's noteven giving you the accurate thing.
So you need to learn to mine throughthat, and you need a human to be able to
recognize that that's one, not factual,or two, it's biased, or something else.
(15:05):
So I don't see it as replacing us.
But what I do see is it's absolutelygoing to change our jobs as
communicators without a doubt.
And that we need to be bothtrying it out and experimenting.
We need to be upskilling ourselves,upskilling our teams so that they can
(15:29):
be the most valuable communicatorsbecause they know how to utilize AI.
It can do some of their job forthem, and then they can focus on
other priorities that AI can't do.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I said this yesterday,my favorite quote in this area
is Scott Galloway saying, "AIis not gonna take your job.
(15:50):
Somebody using AI is gonna take your job."
Yes.
Exactly.
[Laughing] Exactly.
Alright, so AI certainly amain theme of the conference.
Health equity, certainly.
Now you brought up DEI and wehaven't come back to that yet.
DEI, I would say, has many connotationsand oftentimes in our roles we're
talking about communicating inan inclusive way for the company.
(16:13):
But if we're being honest with ourselves,that was not a very diverse conference
in terms of our industry itself.
So what do we do about that?
Well, I think it's alsorepresentative of our industry.
So, I actually think that this wasfairly diverse compared to some
(16:36):
other conferences that I've attended.
I know how difficult, itis to build diverse teams.
We need to get more people of color,and often more men, all different types,
into communications in general so that wecan then have more diverse conferences.
(17:00):
One of the things that I absolutelyloved was a leader who I worked for
a number of years, he had a guidingprinciple that anybody asked him to
be on a panel or at a conference thatthere had to be a woman on the panel.
Wow.
And could, she couldn't be the moderator.
(17:21):
She had to be subject matter expert.
That changed a number of panelsbecause they would actually make sure
that they then went out and found awoman if he was saying, no, I'm not
gonna do it unless there is a femalesubject matter expert on there.
And so I think there aredifferent things that we all have
(17:43):
to do to try and change that.
My husband teases me because it seemslike no matter what team I have, I only
have one man on my team half the time.
[Paul chuckles] And I'll have a team often or fifteen people, and it always seems
to be that there's always only one man.
And he's like, you needto really branch out.
It's like, I am looking.
(18:04):
Mm-Hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
When I first joined Lippe Taylorwith Maureen Lippe, I think I
was like the third man in thecompany or something like that.
Yeah.
Yep.
You're not usually a minority.
Right, right.
Well, I've been in this industrylong enough that I've grown
accustomed to it, I guess.
But I think diversity, equity, andinclusion was one of the threads that
(18:25):
went throughout so many of the differentdiscussions over the last two days.
I think it's something that more thananything we need to be focused on and
we need to be cognizant of in everythingthat we do, whether it's in the
storytelling and making sure that we'retelling all different types of stories.
(18:46):
That we're finding that diversityof thought, those opinions.
One of the most important things thatwe heard over and over and over again is
the importance of asking good questions.
And I think that's also part of that.
But having to listen and make sure thatwe're listening more than we're talking.
(19:07):
It also goes to who are we listeningto and are we going to the same
people all the time, or are wemaking sure that we're getting that
diversity of opinions and thoughts?
Yep.
Absolutely.
It's funny because one of the realchallenges is that communications
moves at the speed of light.
Yes.
Marketing moves in long windows, bigplanning cycles, big investments.
(19:33):
Communications movesat the speed of light.
And it is a lot harder to dothat with an inclusive team.
It's a lot easier to get abunch of people in the room that
all went to the same school.
That all have very similar backgrounds.
That all see things in the same way.
You get around the table, you're like,hey, do we all agree what we should do?
Yep.
Sure.
That was easy, let's go.
(19:54):
But, of course, you never getthe best results that way.
Never.
You just get something done quickly.
And that only reflects you, andthen you're never gonna grow.
You're never gonna learn.
Yep.
And so I do think it's one of thethings that is a, it's an inherent
challenge in communications isknowing when we can slow down.
Mm-Hmm.
And take the time to get a more fulsome,thoughtful team with diverse experiences
(20:19):
versus when is it actually somethingthat has to be responded to right now?
That leads very nicely into one ofthe things, one of today's panels,
which was on crisis communications.
And I think that is the timethat you need to be really fast.
You need to act quickly.
You need to think quickly.
(20:39):
But you still need to make sure thatyou're getting the right stakeholders,
that you're hearing from the right peopleto make sure that what you are going to
quickly put out there or pull together isaccurate, is reflective of the situation.
And so on.
That was, I thought, areally good panel today.
(20:59):
Again, it was very much validatingsome of the things we know.
We need to have a plan.
We need to have a framework,overall framework.
We need to have reallygood aligned messaging.
We need to have different scenariosso that we can react quickly,
(21:19):
and we need to be monitoring andadjusting as things are happening.
They're all things that as communicatorswe go back, we say, oh, that's 101.
But then when we're thrown into asituation, it all goes out the window.
I can't tell you how many very, verycapable, experienced communicators
would agree with everything you justsaid, and then go launch a marketing
(21:42):
campaign or launch some other kindof program and not actually have done
the pre-work in case there's a crisis.
Because at the end of the dayit's like, oh, the crisis doesn't
happen that often and they're busyand they got a lot of stuff to do.
And the one out of I don't know whatthe number is, but times where it
crops on you, you really wish you'dbeen a little bit more planful.
(22:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I feel like as communicators, somany of us, we're gluttons for
punishment, that it's crisis commsthat draws us in and that excites us.
So because we know we can thrive andwe can help solve that situation.
Yeah.
There's like a little volunteerfirefighter in all of us, right?
Yes.
[Laughs] That leads to another themethat I heard throughout the few days,
(22:28):
which is about embracing our failures.
And failing fast.
Talk about something that should be donefast, failing fast, and then being able
to learn, really look at what happened,what went well with something, what didn't
go well, how we can adjust, and thenhow we can succeed the next go round.
(22:49):
Or how we fail fast again and try again.
I think so many companies are more opento that now than they ever were before.
And then the importance of talking aboutour failures and sharing those failures.
Not just sharing best practices,but sharing our failures as well
so others can learn from them.
(23:11):
That certainly relates to themeasurement conversation as well.
It was actually Seth Duncan,who's our Chief Science
Officer, said something there.
I was sitting in the audience isgoing like, oh, that's really smart.
[They laugh] But he basically said, thereason that most measurement frameworks
favor marketing work, which they do, isbecause there's so much more investment
made on the marketing side and thereforethey invest more in the measurement
(23:31):
campaigns or the measurement work.
But if you look at what ChatGPT andsome of these AI tools have done for
measurement is it's made it so thatPR can now deploy the same level
of sophistication and measurementthe marketing teams have forever.
Okay, so then what's the behaviorchange that comes with that?
The behavior change that comes withthat is committing to what are we
(23:52):
trying to accomplish with this program?
Instead of running a whole program andthen at the very end putting together
a PowerPoint deck with all the thingsand being like, well, it got some clicks
over here, and some views over there.
And we're pretty sure we impacted morepeople searching in Google and look at
all these different things that happened.
That doesn't carry the sameweight as saying up front,
we're trying to accomplish this.
(24:13):
At the end, measuring it, and if itdidn't accomplish that, owning it,
saying, here's what we learned and thenmaybe it accomplished something else.
Great.
But don't try to rewritehistory at the end.
You reminded me of another theme thatwent through the conference, which was
measurement, data, and analytics, andmaking sure that everything that we do
(24:37):
has a measurement component into it.
We talked a lot at this conferenceabout leading through change, about
communicators as change agents.
How do we actually measure that change?
I loved hearing about measuring thebehaviors as well as thinking about - we
(24:58):
all know about different qualitativeand quantitative measurements, but
also other types of measurementsand not discounting anecdotal
measurement, and looking at thingslike how engaged are your employees?
Are they turning on their camera on Zoom?
(25:21):
Some of those, how many peopleare coming into the office?
How many people are showing upfor events or for town halls?
And really thinking about that and thenasking them the questions, doing the
follow up, doing the focus groups to ask,why did you come or why didn't you come?
One of the things I always do in ourtown hall surveys is ask that we send
(25:45):
it out and ask everybody to fill it outwhether they attended or not, because
the first question after "Did you attend"is okay, if you said no, it's why not?
And trying to capture if peoplewere too busy, if they didn't hear
about it, if they didn't thinkit was gonna pertain to them.
So it's trying to get to thewhy, rather than just the yes/no.
(26:09):
It's interesting.
One of the breakout sessions was aroundinnovation and one of the topics of
conversation was coming up, what are thenext big high value actions that we're
gonna try to drive through our work?
And the reason was because alot of campaigns are targeted
at sending people to a website.
So it's like, go to this website, sign upto find more, go to this website, Doctor
(26:29):
Locator, go to this website, Screener.
Go to this website, take the pledge.
Whatever it is, it's sending peopleto a website, which frankly is not a
very innate behavior anymore, right?
You think about your consumerlife, Pepsi doesn't end their
commercial with go to pepsi.com.
We don't do that.
You look at what AI's doing nowwith auto summarizations, 60% of
(26:50):
searches are zero click searches.
You search and youdon't click on anything.
That auto summarization atthe top is just beginning.
It's gonna take over.
We're not gonna go to websites anymore.
We just gotta teach theAI tools what to think.
So I don't have an answer here otherthan to say, I think it's incumbent
on us to think about what are the highvalue actions that we are gonna try to
(27:11):
drive, and how are we gonna measure 'em?
Yes, definitely.
And that's one of my favoritethings about coming to a conference
like this is we're not expectingeveryone to have the answers.
It's what are the conversationsand what are the things we should
be thinking about and then goingback and experimenting with?
(27:32):
Yep, absolutely.
So speaking of going back andexperimenting, anything that you're
gonna take back to Boston and Takeda andexperiment with from this conference?
One of the things, one of theround tables that I participated
in was about reverse mentorship.
Ahhh.
And we do a lot of mentorship at Takeda.
(27:56):
Although, we don't have a reverse, aformal reverse mentorship program, and
I found that idea really interesting,especially when you're talking about
diversity and trying to get differentideas and diversity of thought.
We can all learn from everyone.
(28:19):
No matter if they're older than us,younger than us, look different than us.
Everything.
And that was another thing that Iwill take back, which is just, again,
reinforcing being a continuous learner.
And so the mentoring, the utilizing AI.
(28:39):
It's something we've been drivingin our company for a very long time.
We really aspire to be the most trusteddigital biopharmaceutical company, and
so we've been encouraging all of ouremployees to daily utilize AI and figure
out how to incorporate it into theirwork for the benefit of our patients.
(29:02):
This conference gave me moreideas for how to do that.
Some of the concrete ways thatI can incorporate it into my
role as a communications leader.
The other thing that I have been tryingto drive with my team for the last couple
of years, but I was thrilled to heartalked about here was about wellness.
(29:26):
How we in our industry havebeen programmed for decades upon
decades that communicators needto be on 24/7, and we need to work
every minute that we're awake.
We need to constantly be connected.
That is just not the case.
(29:47):
Yes, we need be accessible if a crisishappens and when a crisis happens.
Two years ago, we had acrisis that I literally worked
24/7 for about seven weeks.
There was not a day - my husband knewI was just gonna be working that whole
time while we dealt with an issue inJapan, and that absolutely is going
(30:14):
to happen and we need to do that.
Seven weeks is a long crisis.
It, it was.
And luckily we had some people help us,so we had a couple of days off, but that
is not the norm and it shouldn't be.
Throughout my career, it would be myhusband and I watching TV, and I have my
laptop on my lap and I am just working.
It finally came to a head.
(30:34):
He's like, you can't do this anymore.
And what I learned also, whatreally snapped me out of it was
leading a larger team, and realizingthe impact I was having on them.
If I wouldn't disconnect,they wouldn't disconnect.
Can't be what they can't see.
(30:55):
Exactly.
And they were very much if Isaid, put you're out of office on.
Be sick.
Like, just because you canwork from home doesn't mean you
should work from your sick bed.
Or you go to the beach and youleave your work computer at home.
And they're like, you don't dothat, pot calling the kettle black.
(31:16):
So I now do it and I no longer putmy cell phone as my out of office, I
refer to someone else covering for me.
And if I am sick, I turn my out of officeon and direct them to someone else.
And by doing that, my teamhas now started to do that.
(31:37):
And by the way, you're giving thatsomeone else a growth opportunity.
Yes.
Yes.
Right?
As opposed to keeping it yourself.
In some cases you think you're doing thema favor by saying, oh, I'll take that.
But actually it was agrowth opportunity for them.
Exactly.
So it was wonderful to hear people talkingabout that and our need for self-care
(31:59):
as leaders so we can be better leadersfor our team, but how we can also role
model for our team and teach them thatcommunicators do not have to work 24/7.
We can do it when we need todo it, but not all the time.
Before we wrap up, I just have to saythat this is my favorite conference.
(32:20):
Year, after year, afteryear, I love coming.
It's like a big reunion of all the peopleI've worked with over the last decades.
Michelle Benz, the conferenceProduction Director, and Chairperson,
Wendy Lund, do an amazing jobyear, after year, after year.
They really do.
I was really proud to be partof the advisory board, helping
(32:43):
to pull the conference together,the subjects and the speakers.
But they do everything and it justkeeps getting better and better.
So I highly recommend, to anycommunicators, if you haven't
attended, please come next year.
And I bet you will come year after year.
I absolutely second that as aperson who's in my third year here,
and will be back again next year.
(33:04):
Amy, thank you so much for sharing allyour thoughts, insights, and takeaways.
I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it,and next year maybe we will see them here.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Frictionless Marketing.
For a complete transcript of thisconversation or more information on
/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
(33:26):
If you found this episodeinsightful, share it with
your connections on LinkedIn.
To learn more about how to makemarketing frictionless, purchase Friction
Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer,online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is aproduction from /prompt, the
leading earned first creativemarketing and communications agency.
Grounded in the present,yet attuned to the future.
(33:47):
Produced and distributed bySimpler Media Productions.
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing,where we explore the latest
(00:02):
trends and challenges in theworld of marketing and beyond.
. Today we're joined by Amy Atwood, Vice President of Regional Communication and
Philanthropy at Takeda Pharmaceuticals.
With over 25 years in corporatecommunications, Amy has championed
transparency, authenticity,and the integration of patient
perspectives throughout her career.
Her journey from roles at Sanofi to hercurrent leadership at Takeda, reflects
(00:25):
a commitment to empowering individualsthrough clear, timely communication.
Today we'll explore Amy's insights onthe evolving pharmaceutical industry,
her advice for budding communicationsprofessionals and her perspective on
purpose-driven work, diversity, equity,inclusion, and the impact of augmented
intelligence and communication strategies.
(00:46):
Join us as we delve intothese pivotal topics.
Live from fierce pharma, PR andComm Summit East with Amy Atwood.
Amy, thank you so much for joining us.
We've now just completely wrappedthe last session at the Fierce
Pharma PR Communications Summit East.
I'm really looking forward tohearing your thoughts in this show.
Specifically, what we're gonna do is justrecap for our listeners what they missed
(01:09):
by not being here, what the key themesof the conference were, any important
takeaways, and just general learningsand conversations that happened here.
So thank you for agreeingto be on the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Paul.
This has been such anenergizing, inspiring two days.
It was really jam-packed.
(01:30):
Going from 9:00 AM until 6:00 PM withsometimes two tracks at the same time.
So there was a lot ofinformation to absorb.
There was, and a lot of verydifferent topics covered.
And then also some themes thatdefinitely came up repeatedly.
Obviously, AI was a big topic inmany different ways, but what else,
(01:52):
what other themes emerged for you?
It was really interesting because,like you said, there were some things
that came up over and over again.
Transparency, if I had a dime for everytime we said we need to be transparent
in our communications and our planningand everything that we're doing.
Authenticity.
(02:13):
AI over and over again.
Human-centric.
I think think the fact that corporations'voices have evolved over time, and that
really goes back to the title of thisconference was driving the next evolution,
igniting innovation, powering impact,and the way that we're going to be.
(02:36):
We have been evolving.
I've been in this industry almost thirtyyears, and when I think back to some
of the ways that we did things andactually having to learn a corporate
voice that was almost computer-like.
And now we are the opposite and we'retrying to get our leaders to be humans.
(02:59):
[Paul laughs] That's one ofthe things that people really
spoke about over and over.
Yeah.
But I hadn't put it in that contextin my own mind of juxtaposing with
many of these corporate leaders,they also grew up in an environment
where they were taught to roboticizethemselves, largely because they were
speaking to institutional audiences.
(03:19):
Now, of course, through consumerization,both in the patient side of what we do
as well as the role of pharmaceuticalindustry in the larger societal
discourse, and retail investors.
It's like, oh my gosh, we actuallyhave to talk to people again.
And we have to talk about people.
Another theme that there were multiplesessions on was storytelling, or,
(03:42):
as you were saying, story making.
We need to really make sure that we'realways, in our industry, putting patients
at the center and telling the storiesof those patients and those people in
that - going back to it - authentic,transparent way that can resonate.
(04:03):
Another theme that came up again andagain, actually two different distinct
themes that people often tie together.
So I actually feel a little badsaying them in the same breath, but
health equity - I'll pause - and DENI.
And making sure that we are, how we'retelling our stories, and ensuring
(04:30):
that our patients can get access.
Mm-Hmm.
And how we are making sure that a patientsees themselves in the stories that
we're telling so that we are findingpatients from all walks of life and
all types of patients so that we canbe using those examples for others.
(04:55):
Yeah, and there was a great quote,and I know he was borrowing it from
somebody else, but Sri Ramaswamifrom GSK was the one who said,
"You can't be what you can't see."
Which I thought was a reallygreat quote in this area.
And then of course, he led the panelwhere Tiffany West at Gilead really
had an incredible story about thehealth equity journey there from sort
(05:16):
of moving out of the foundation andbeing like a little bit of the frosting
on the cake instead of the cake intothis is now central to the business.
Of course, that's I guess where we wouldall aspire to this work landing, even
though oftentimes it seems to be a littlebit of a difficult road to get there.
Yeah, I think one of the things that Iheard repeatedly when we were talking in
(05:38):
different sessions about health equity ismaking sure that it's not transactional.
That it's consistent and thatit's embedded in the business.
And that really brings to mind theimportance of us as communicators
(05:59):
being business leaders.
We are not a support function.
We are not simply enabling others.
We are strategists.
We are thought partners.
We are advisors.
And that is included in thehealth equity space as well.
(06:19):
Yeah, and there's definitely anoticeable difference when you,
picking up that thread, betweenpeople saying communications was
consulted after a decision was made.
That's our worst.
Right.
Or, communications wasasked to communicate about
a decision that was made.
Moving first into communicationswas asked what will be the
(06:40):
communications impact of this decision?
To now, finally, sounds like somepeople are being asked what will be
the business impact of this decision?
And that just points to thecentrality of communications
in everything we do these days.
Absolutely.
I think it's that making sure thatwe're tying our communications to
(07:01):
business outcomes is so critical.
Another thing that came up repeatedlyin different sessions of all
different topics was communicationshaving a seat at the table.
And I loved one of the speakers talkingabout how she invited herself and how
she doesn't quite have a seat at thetable, but pulled up her folding chair.
(07:25):
And I think that thatwas a great visual there.
It very much varies acrosscompanies and it doesn't correlate
to a company size or anything.
It's one of the things I look for in acompany is do the leaders overall - the
CEO, the senior leadership team - believein the importance of communications and
(07:50):
empower their communicators to have a seatat that table from the very beginning,
from ideation, from brainstorming abouta business solution, and to carrying it
through so that it doesn't end up, asyou were saying, those other examples.
I think COVID, I am constantlyharking back to some of the
(08:15):
silver linings of COVID.
The importance of communicationsand communicators really
came to light in COVID.
I don't know any stats about this, but Iwould be willing to bet that if you did
look, there were so many companies thatI saw, at least in the Boston area, that
(08:38):
were hiring communicators during thattime, who were creating new communications
jobs because they saw that it was reallyneeded to have communicators at the
table to help the company through that.
First of all, I totally agree.
I think COVID, the communications impactwas that communications was the only way
(09:00):
to stay in touch with employees, right?
To stay in touch with customers,to stay connected anybody
outside of your four walls.
And a lot of business leadersrealized in that moment, they
weren't actually very good at it.
Because they had a way of workingthat was reliant on being in person
people and when they weren't in personwith people anymore, it was like, I
(09:21):
don't know how to operate like this.
And so all of a sudden they did haveto both improve themselves and surround
themselves with good communicators.
But I wanna pick back up on thistheme because the bringing a
folding chair to the table thing.
Mm-Hmm.
I thought was, I laughed when she said it.
I believe her name isMel from Mallinckrodt?
I don't know her personally,but I saw her on stage.
I thought she was great.
I brought it up the subsequentconversation with Tanya Wymer from Biogen
(09:44):
saying, what do you think about this?
They were sort of making the case of we'removing from having a folding chair on the
path to getting that upholstered chair.
And Tanya's response was she thoughtshould only have a folding chair.
Interesting.
Because said that the folding chairallows us as communicators to then
leave the boardroom and go among theemployees and hear what they really think.
(10:08):
And leave the building and go sitamong patients, doctors, and advocates,
and hear what they really think.
Cause we can bring folding chair withus everywhere we go, and then we have
that external credibility when wecome back into a boardroom that is
oftentimes a little bit insular anddoesn't hear from those audiences.
I thought that was a prettyinsightful take on it.
(10:29):
I absolutely appreciate that and do agree.
We need to be the eyes andears for our fellow leaders.
That said, I think we need to be seenas equally important leaders who deserve
a full, regular seat at the table, too.
So I think it goes both ways.
(10:50):
So let's not take the, uh, the foldingversus upholstered chair too literally
or too far, I guess, you're saying.
Yeah, that makes sense.
At conferences like this, I feel likeit's really difficult, both for the
presenters, the panelists, etcetera,trying to obviously impression
on people, impart some wisdom.
But it's difficult 'cause you don't knowwhat level the audience is coming in at.
(11:11):
So, how do you set academic foundationslike ways of thinking about things, but
then also give really practical advice?
So, elementary schoolgrading, A, B, C, D, or F.
How do you think our presenters did thisweek on walking that tightrope between
setting foundations, big picture, academicversus like really practical advice?
(11:34):
Yeah.
I see it as the 101 classversus the master class.
And I think different sessionsdid it better than others.
And I think that different people herewere looking for different things.
Some were really looking for the strategyand the high-level insights, whereas
(11:58):
others are starting out and are lookingfor that tactical, how do I do this?
I'll give one example related toone of the most frequent things
we've already mentioned, AI.
There were certainly some panels thatwe had that were very, overall, high
(12:21):
level, what AI can do and going forwardin the future, there was nothing from
that that you could then take anddo when you got back to the office.
Then, we had, one of the thingsthat I really appreciated about the
conference this go round, I've attendedfor many years, was that there were
(12:45):
round tables that were small groupdiscussions, and one of the round
tables that I attended was on AI.
And in that session there wereconcrete examples shared, even walking
through this is this type of ChatGPT.
This is a free version.
(13:07):
This is where you find it.
And walked through taking a pressrelease, asking it, explaining the
prompt, walking through how you haveit in two seconds, create an internal
article for your audience on that subject.
So really concrete, tacticalexamples, but it got to both sides.
(13:31):
Especially with AI, I think that'swhat's just absolutely critical is
it's fine for us to have big pictureconversations, but we don't need
to have a vision for technology.
We need to know how do we applythese things in the daily work.
And people are still scared ofAI and scared, is this going
(13:53):
to make it so I lose my job?
Am I going to be replaced by the computer?
Is my company going to seethis as a synergy thing?
And oh, now your comms teamthat was ten can be two.
I think one of the things thatplays into that is that, yes, it
(14:15):
is progressing at the speed oflight, but it is still so early.
And the bias that is inherent inmany of the gen AI tools because
it's taking from the internet.
Even in some of the different areas ofmedicine, we haven't done enough research.
(14:39):
There isn't even data out therefor certain types of people and
different things that if the data'snot out there, it's certainly not
on the internet, and so it's noteven giving you the accurate thing.
So you need to learn to mine throughthat, and you need a human to be able to
recognize that that's one, not factual,or two, it's biased, or something else.
(15:05):
So I don't see it as replacing us.
But what I do see is it's absolutelygoing to change our jobs as
communicators without a doubt.
And that we need to be bothtrying it out and experimenting.
We need to be upskilling ourselves,upskilling our teams so that they can
(15:29):
be the most valuable communicatorsbecause they know how to utilize AI.
It can do some of their job forthem, and then they can focus on
other priorities that AI can't do.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think I said this yesterday,my favorite quote in this area
is Scott Galloway saying, "AIis not gonna take your job.
(15:50):
Somebody using AI is gonna take your job."
Yes.
Exactly.
[Laughing] Exactly.
Alright, so AI certainly amain theme of the conference.
Health equity, certainly.
Now you brought up DEI and wehaven't come back to that yet.
DEI, I would say, has many connotationsand oftentimes in our roles we're
talking about communicating inan inclusive way for the company.
(16:13):
But if we're being honest with ourselves,that was not a very diverse conference
in terms of our industry itself.
So what do we do about that?
Well, I think it's alsorepresentative of our industry.
So, I actually think that this wasfairly diverse compared to some
(16:36):
other conferences that I've attended.
I know how difficult, itis to build diverse teams.
We need to get more people of color,and often more men, all different types,
into communications in general so that wecan then have more diverse conferences.
(17:00):
One of the things that I absolutelyloved was a leader who I worked for
a number of years, he had a guidingprinciple that anybody asked him to
be on a panel or at a conference thatthere had to be a woman on the panel.
Wow.
And could, she couldn't be the moderator.
(17:21):
She had to be subject matter expert.
That changed a number of panelsbecause they would actually make sure
that they then went out and found awoman if he was saying, no, I'm not
gonna do it unless there is a femalesubject matter expert on there.
And so I think there aredifferent things that we all have
(17:43):
to do to try and change that.
My husband teases me because it seemslike no matter what team I have, I only
have one man on my team half the time.
[Paul chuckles] And I'll have a team often or fifteen people, and it always seems
to be that there's always only one man.
And he's like, you needto really branch out.
It's like, I am looking.
(18:04):
Mm-Hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
When I first joined Lippe Taylorwith Maureen Lippe, I think I
was like the third man in thecompany or something like that.
Yeah.
Yep.
You're not usually a minority.
Right, right.
Well, I've been in this industrylong enough that I've grown
accustomed to it, I guess.
But I think diversity, equity, andinclusion was one of the threads that
(18:25):
went throughout so many of the differentdiscussions over the last two days.
I think it's something that more thananything we need to be focused on and
we need to be cognizant of in everythingthat we do, whether it's in the
storytelling and making sure that we'retelling all different types of stories.
(18:46):
That we're finding that diversityof thought, those opinions.
One of the most important things thatwe heard over and over and over again is
the importance of asking good questions.
And I think that's also part of that.
But having to listen and make sure thatwe're listening more than we're talking.
(19:07):
It also goes to who are we listeningto and are we going to the same
people all the time, or are wemaking sure that we're getting that
diversity of opinions and thoughts?
Yep.
Absolutely.
It's funny because one of the realchallenges is that communications
moves at the speed of light.
Yes.
Marketing moves in long windows, bigplanning cycles, big investments.
(19:33):
Communications movesat the speed of light.
And it is a lot harder to dothat with an inclusive team.
It's a lot easier to get abunch of people in the room that
all went to the same school.
That all have very similar backgrounds.
That all see things in the same way.
You get around the table, you're like,hey, do we all agree what we should do?
Yep.
Sure.
That was easy, let's go.
(19:54):
But, of course, you never getthe best results that way.
Never.
You just get something done quickly.
And that only reflects you, andthen you're never gonna grow.
You're never gonna learn.
Yep.
And so I do think it's one of thethings that is a, it's an inherent
challenge in communications isknowing when we can slow down.
Mm-Hmm.
And take the time to get a more fulsome,thoughtful team with diverse experiences
(20:19):
versus when is it actually somethingthat has to be responded to right now?
That leads very nicely into one ofthe things, one of today's panels,
which was on crisis communications.
And I think that is the timethat you need to be really fast.
You need to act quickly.
You need to think quickly.
(20:39):
But you still need to make sure thatyou're getting the right stakeholders,
that you're hearing from the right peopleto make sure that what you are going to
quickly put out there or pull together isaccurate, is reflective of the situation.
And so on.
That was, I thought, areally good panel today.
(20:59):
Again, it was very much validatingsome of the things we know.
We need to have a plan.
We need to have a framework,overall framework.
We need to have reallygood aligned messaging.
We need to have different scenariosso that we can react quickly,
(21:19):
and we need to be monitoring andadjusting as things are happening.
They're all things that as communicatorswe go back, we say, oh, that's 101.
But then when we're thrown into asituation, it all goes out the window.
I can't tell you how many very, verycapable, experienced communicators
would agree with everything you justsaid, and then go launch a marketing
(21:42):
campaign or launch some other kindof program and not actually have done
the pre-work in case there's a crisis.
Because at the end of the dayit's like, oh, the crisis doesn't
happen that often and they're busyand they got a lot of stuff to do.
And the one out of I don't know whatthe number is, but times where it
crops on you, you really wish you'dbeen a little bit more planful.
(22:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I feel like as communicators, somany of us, we're gluttons for
punishment, that it's crisis commsthat draws us in and that excites us.
So because we know we can thrive andwe can help solve that situation.
Yeah.
There's like a little volunteerfirefighter in all of us, right?
Yes.
[Laughs] That leads to another themethat I heard throughout the few days,
(22:28):
which is about embracing our failures.
And failing fast.
Talk about something that should be donefast, failing fast, and then being able
to learn, really look at what happened,what went well with something, what didn't
go well, how we can adjust, and thenhow we can succeed the next go round.
(22:49):
Or how we fail fast again and try again.
I think so many companies are more opento that now than they ever were before.
And then the importance of talking aboutour failures and sharing those failures.
Not just sharing best practices,but sharing our failures as well
so others can learn from them.
(23:11):
That certainly relates to themeasurement conversation as well.
It was actually Seth Duncan,who's our Chief Science
Officer, said something there.
I was sitting in the audience isgoing like, oh, that's really smart.
[They laugh] But he basically said, thereason that most measurement frameworks
favor marketing work, which they do, isbecause there's so much more investment
made on the marketing side and thereforethey invest more in the measurement
(23:31):
campaigns or the measurement work.
But if you look at what ChatGPT andsome of these AI tools have done for
measurement is it's made it so thatPR can now deploy the same level
of sophistication and measurementthe marketing teams have forever.
Okay, so then what's the behaviorchange that comes with that?
The behavior change that comes withthat is committing to what are we
(23:52):
trying to accomplish with this program?
Instead of running a whole program andthen at the very end putting together
a PowerPoint deck with all the thingsand being like, well, it got some clicks
over here, and some views over there.
And we're pretty sure we impacted morepeople searching in Google and look at
all these different things that happened.
That doesn't carry the sameweight as saying up front,
we're trying to accomplish this.
(24:13):
At the end, measuring it, and if itdidn't accomplish that, owning it,
saying, here's what we learned and thenmaybe it accomplished something else.
Great.
But don't try to rewritehistory at the end.
You reminded me of another theme thatwent through the conference, which was
measurement, data, and analytics, andmaking sure that everything that we do
(24:37):
has a measurement component into it.
We talked a lot at this conferenceabout leading through change, about
communicators as change agents.
How do we actually measure that change?
I loved hearing about measuring thebehaviors as well as thinking about - we
(24:58):
all know about different qualitativeand quantitative measurements, but
also other types of measurementsand not discounting anecdotal
measurement, and looking at thingslike how engaged are your employees?
Are they turning on their camera on Zoom?
(25:21):
Some of those, how many peopleare coming into the office?
How many people are showing upfor events or for town halls?
And really thinking about that and thenasking them the questions, doing the
follow up, doing the focus groups to ask,why did you come or why didn't you come?
One of the things I always do in ourtown hall surveys is ask that we send
(25:45):
it out and ask everybody to fill it outwhether they attended or not, because
the first question after "Did you attend"is okay, if you said no, it's why not?
And trying to capture if peoplewere too busy, if they didn't hear
about it, if they didn't thinkit was gonna pertain to them.
So it's trying to get to thewhy, rather than just the yes/no.
(26:09):
It's interesting.
One of the breakout sessions was aroundinnovation and one of the topics of
conversation was coming up, what are thenext big high value actions that we're
gonna try to drive through our work?
And the reason was because alot of campaigns are targeted
at sending people to a website.
So it's like, go to this website, sign upto find more, go to this website, Doctor
(26:29):
Locator, go to this website, Screener.
Go to this website, take the pledge.
Whatever it is, it's sending peopleto a website, which frankly is not a
very innate behavior anymore, right?
You think about your consumerlife, Pepsi doesn't end their
commercial with go to pepsi.com.
We don't do that.
You look at what AI's doing nowwith auto summarizations, 60% of
(26:50):
searches are zero click searches.
You search and youdon't click on anything.
That auto summarization atthe top is just beginning.
It's gonna take over.
We're not gonna go to websites anymore.
We just gotta teach theAI tools what to think.
So I don't have an answer here otherthan to say, I think it's incumbent
on us to think about what are the highvalue actions that we are gonna try to
(27:11):
drive, and how are we gonna measure 'em?
Yes, definitely.
And that's one of my favoritethings about coming to a conference
like this is we're not expectingeveryone to have the answers.
It's what are the conversationsand what are the things we should
be thinking about and then goingback and experimenting with?
(27:32):
Yep, absolutely.
So speaking of going back andexperimenting, anything that you're
gonna take back to Boston and Takeda andexperiment with from this conference?
One of the things, one of theround tables that I participated
in was about reverse mentorship.
Ahhh.
And we do a lot of mentorship at Takeda.
(27:56):
Although, we don't have a reverse, aformal reverse mentorship program, and
I found that idea really interesting,especially when you're talking about
diversity and trying to get differentideas and diversity of thought.
We can all learn from everyone.
(28:19):
No matter if they're older than us,younger than us, look different than us.
Everything.
And that was another thing that Iwill take back, which is just, again,
reinforcing being a continuous learner.
And so the mentoring, the utilizing AI.
(28:39):
It's something we've been drivingin our company for a very long time.
We really aspire to be the most trusteddigital biopharmaceutical company, and
so we've been encouraging all of ouremployees to daily utilize AI and figure
out how to incorporate it into theirwork for the benefit of our patients.
(29:02):
This conference gave me moreideas for how to do that.
Some of the concrete ways thatI can incorporate it into my
role as a communications leader.
The other thing that I have been tryingto drive with my team for the last couple
of years, but I was thrilled to heartalked about here was about wellness.
(29:26):
How we in our industry havebeen programmed for decades upon
decades that communicators needto be on 24/7, and we need to work
every minute that we're awake.
We need to constantly be connected.
That is just not the case.
(29:47):
Yes, we need be accessible if a crisishappens and when a crisis happens.
Two years ago, we had acrisis that I literally worked
24/7 for about seven weeks.
There was not a day - my husband knewI was just gonna be working that whole
time while we dealt with an issue inJapan, and that absolutely is going
(30:14):
to happen and we need to do that.
Seven weeks is a long crisis.
It, it was.
And luckily we had some people help us,so we had a couple of days off, but that
is not the norm and it shouldn't be.
Throughout my career, it would be myhusband and I watching TV, and I have my
laptop on my lap and I am just working.
It finally came to a head.
(30:34):
He's like, you can't do this anymore.
And what I learned also, whatreally snapped me out of it was
leading a larger team, and realizingthe impact I was having on them.
If I wouldn't disconnect,they wouldn't disconnect.
Can't be what they can't see.
(30:55):
Exactly.
And they were very much if Isaid, put you're out of office on.
Be sick.
Like, just because you canwork from home doesn't mean you
should work from your sick bed.
Or you go to the beach and youleave your work computer at home.
And they're like, you don't dothat, pot calling the kettle black.
(31:16):
So I now do it and I no longer putmy cell phone as my out of office, I
refer to someone else covering for me.
And if I am sick, I turn my out of officeon and direct them to someone else.
And by doing that, my teamhas now started to do that.
(31:37):
And by the way, you're giving thatsomeone else a growth opportunity.
Yes.
Yes.
Right?
As opposed to keeping it yourself.
In some cases you think you're doing thema favor by saying, oh, I'll take that.
But actually it was agrowth opportunity for them.
Exactly.
So it was wonderful to hear people talkingabout that and our need for self-care
(31:59):
as leaders so we can be better leadersfor our team, but how we can also role
model for our team and teach them thatcommunicators do not have to work 24/7.
We can do it when we need todo it, but not all the time.
Before we wrap up, I just have to saythat this is my favorite conference.
(32:20):
Year, after year, afteryear, I love coming.
It's like a big reunion of all the peopleI've worked with over the last decades.
Michelle Benz, the conferenceProduction Director, and Chairperson,
Wendy Lund, do an amazing jobyear, after year, after year.
They really do.
I was really proud to be partof the advisory board, helping
(32:43):
to pull the conference together,the subjects and the speakers.
But they do everything and it justkeeps getting better and better.
So I highly recommend, to anycommunicators, if you haven't
attended, please come next year.
And I bet you will come year after year.
I absolutely second that as aperson who's in my third year here,
and will be back again next year.
(33:04):
Amy, thank you so much for sharing allyour thoughts, insights, and takeaways.
I'm sure our listeners will appreciate it,and next year maybe we will see them here.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Frictionless Marketing.
For a complete transcript of thisconversation or more information on
/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
(33:26):
If you found this episodeinsightful, share it with
your connections on LinkedIn.
To learn more about how to makemarketing frictionless, purchase Friction
Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer,online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is aproduction from /prompt, the
leading earned first creativemarketing and communications agency.
Grounded in the present,yet attuned to the future.
(33:47):
Produced and distributed bySimpler Media Productions.
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