July 29, 2024 • 27 mins
In this episode of Frictionless Marketing, host Paul Dyer welcomes Tanya Wymer, Executive Director of Enterprise Communications at Biogen. Tanya shares her journey from a farming community in Ontario to becoming a leader in corporate communications. She discusses her accolades, such as the CEO Elements Award at Biogen and the Change Communications Global Award at Novo Nordisk, emphasizing her role as a change agent in transforming corporate cultures.
Tanya also delves into the challenges of balancing diverse stakeholder expectations, the significance of employee-centric communication strategies during restructuring, and the ongoing brand refresh project at Biogen. Reflecting on the evolving role of communications professionals, Tanya provides valuable insights on fostering creativity, resilience, and effective communication in a global, dynamic corporate environment.
00:00 Introduction to Frictionless Marketing
00:05 Meet Tanya Wymer: A Journey in Corporate Communications
01:08 Tanya's Early Inspirations and Career Path
02:45 Awards and Transformational Work
04:10 Balancing Transformation and Stakeholder Expectations
05:18 Internal Communication Strategies at Biogen
07:31 Employee-Centric Culture and Brand Refresh
15:15 Global Communication Challenges and Strategies
23:38 Creating a Productive and Creative Team Environment
25:37 Looking Ahead: Exciting Projects at Biogen
26:46 Conclusion and Closing Remarks
Frictionless Marketing is a production from /prompt, the leading earned first creative marketing and communications agency. Grounded in the present, yet attuned to the future.
To learn more about how to make marketing frictionless, purchase Friction Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer, online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is a production from /prompt, the leading earned first creative marketing and communications agency. Grounded in the present, yet attuned to the future.
Produced and distributed by Simpler Media Productions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing,where we explore the latest
(00:02):
trends and challenges in theworld of marketing and beyond.
In today's episode, we are joined byTanya Wymer, Executive Director of
Enterprise Communications at Biogen.
With a wealth of experience incorporate communications, Tanya's
renowned for her ability to engageboth internal and external stakeholders
through compelling brand campaigns,digital and social channels, and
organizational communication.
(00:23):
As an inclusive and empowering leader,Tanya excels in global roles, aligning
communicators and business leadersacross multiple cultures and geographies.
She is a strong advocate fortransformation and change communication,
emphasizing the importance ofstarting with employees to create a
unified and impactful brand message.
Join us as we dive into Tanya'sinsights and strategies for fostering
(00:44):
creativity, independence, and effectivecommunication in the corporate world.
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing.
I'm your host, Paul Dyer, CEO of /prompt,and today I'm thrilled to be joined
by Tanya Wymer, Executive Director ofEnterprise Communications at Biogen.
Welcome, Tanya.
Thanks so much for having me, Paul.
Thanks for joining us.
(01:04):
Tanya, you've had an impressivecareer in corporate communications.
You wanna start out by just maybe tellingus what inspired you to enter this field?
Well, thank you for that.
I don't know if it's allthat well engineered.
I think a lot of people come intocommunications by happenstance, and I
think that's definitely the case for me.
So I grew up in a farmingcommunity and there weren't a
(01:25):
lot of inspirational people interms of corporate communications.
But I had always loved storytelling.
I'd always gravitated towards that.
Actually in high school I had ateacher who taught this course
called Philosophies and Literature.
It was the first time that Ireally learned about how you could
perpetuate an idea through creativity.
(01:46):
So that was really aninteresting moment for me.
Not that I thought, oh,corporate communications,
this is the next path for me.
I didn't even know it existed.
But always followed what I likedand that ended me in a career
in corporate communications.
So creativity, persuading people,moving things forward in a really
interesting and creative way, visually,with words, that's always been
(02:08):
something that's very appealing to me.
Now, now, hang on, I didn'tknow this background of growing
up in a farming community.
So where was this farming community?
If you think about where the Great Lakesare and you throw a dart right in the
middle, just about there in Ontario,Canada, and I grew up on a poultry farm-
Ah.
Two parents, immigrants, andthen went to school in Toronto.
Wow.
Well, you may not know this, but Iactually worked two summers in cornfields.
(02:31):
It is interesting in that it, itdraws all kinds in terms of learning
how you're gonna communicatewith people down the road.
So, it may not have been all thatengineered as you described it, but it
has been a successful career already.
You've received several prestigiousawards, including the CEO Elements
Award at Biogen in 2022, theCircle of Excellence Award and the
(02:52):
Change Communications Global Awardwhen you were at Nova Nordisk.
I'm curious, have these awardseither directed or shaped the
way that you approach the craft?
It's interesting.
When I think about what I got thoseawards for, they were always for times
when we were really trying to transforma culture and transform an organization.
(03:13):
So I guess, inadvertently, thatseems to be my sweet spot as well.
Being a change agent within anorganization, finding those opportunities
to really engage people across thecompany and also externally with a new
value proposition for the company ora new direction, or even celebrating.
But appreciating where we've comefrom, and then also moving forward.
(03:37):
So in each of those instances,that's really been core to what was
the award-winning work at the time.
So there's a red thread there as well.
Again, leaning into what Ilove, being excited about that.
That's always been core, and I thinkthat's where the success has come from.
That all makes sense, and I lovethat you've opened this door to
transformation and change communication.
(03:57):
Certainly a thread, as you calledit, a red thread in your career.
Also, a red thread in just thestory of Biogen over the last,
maybe five, even ten years.
A lot of ups and downs at Biogen.
In your role today, how do you balancethe many competing interests when it comes
to transformation, change, communicationsand all the different stakeholders and all
(04:20):
the different expectations they have aboutexactly what message is delivered to whom?
You're balancing all of that.
So how do you approach that?
My, my boss and I, we always jokethat we're gonna write a book
about Biogen because it has been sostoried over the last five years.
Absolutely.
But Biogen has a long history.
We're actually in the next few years,we're coming up on our 50th anniversary.
(04:41):
We're one of the first biotechs inthe world, which is pretty exciting.
So we have a lot to draw on that'sreally positive and I think that
is always core to who we are.
While we've made some decisions as abusiness over the past few years that
were unpopular or maybe didn't take inthose multiple stakeholder preferences
or really thinking through all of thosepieces necessarily, I do think that we
(05:05):
are coming to a place - we have a new CEO.
We went through a hugerestructure last year.
At the same time worked on our culture.
So we really started the insidefirst, engaging with our people.
And it's really tough to begoing through a restructure.
We were very transparent aboutit and spoke about, in advance
of when it was happening, weactually told our employees first.
(05:26):
Then we told the market that we weregonna make that change, which is not
necessarily how it is done normally.
So I really have to appreciate ourleadership team for wanting to go in that
direction, and also as a communicationsperson, knowing how much disruption is
going to be for employees, they're theones that need to hear first, right?
And then from there, at the sametime, we did a culture program.
(05:49):
And we said, okay, we want to createa new Biogen, what are we going to be?
Who do we need to be?
How do we need to show up differently?
We've learned some lessonsover the last few years.
What will help us notrepeat those lessons?
So we, at the beginning of thisyear launched a new culture program.
But we had engaged employees allalong the way, asking them what
(06:11):
do you think needs to change?
What do you think we shouldbe doing differently?
And then, what do you wannakeep from our existing culture
and what do you want to change?
So building those together and then launchthe culture at the beginning of this year.
And now we're at a point where we'rethinking about the external world
much more and saying, okay, thisnew Biogen that we're creating,
what is our new value propositionand how does that come through?
(06:33):
And really who are we?
Without too much navel gazing,we do wanna start to think about
who are we now in this world?
Of course, the world haschanged significantly around us.
What is it that we wanna say aboutourselves to the rest of the world that
is also valuable to the rest of the world?
So, for me, getting back to your question,being congruent with your identity no
(06:56):
matter what, especially as employees.
I started my career when Iwas faxing press releases.
Today, we're at a point where any employeewill communicate about your company.
So to me, if it doesn't resonate andit isn't the right message for them,
then it's not the right message.
And we shouldn't just be looking atone stakeholder group, investors.
(07:17):
It has to work for all of our stakeholdersand figuring out who you are and hopefully
if you can come up with somethingthat's simple enough but reflects who
you are, then we'll be successful.
So we're just really embarking onthat journey on the outside now.
What I love about everythingyou just walked us through is
how employee-centric it is.
We've all, of course, seen these exampleswhere a culture is defined at the top
(07:41):
and then rolled out to the employeepopulation, and the employees look at
it and say, that's not our culture.
And instead, you said, of course you haveto take all stakeholders into account,
but it's really clear you're prioritizingemployees as a stakeholder group first.
I think that that's really pretty special.
Obviously, employees have also had somedifficult times to go through at Biogen,
(08:03):
and you talked about some of thosedifficult decisions at the beginning
of your response to that last question.
I'm curious, was communications partof the decision making process there?
Is that something where theysaid, look, we had to make a
business decision, it's been made.
Now it's time to communicate about it.
Or was it more of a, you know,fulsome conversation around what
the potential outcomes or impact ofthis decision from a communication
(08:26):
standpoint were taken into considerationbefore the decision was made?
Yeah, I think as with many things, resultsmay vary, and that's certainly the case.
I think we are getting more into a placewhere communications, and I know we've,
for years had this communication and aseat at the table, and I almost think
that's an irrelevant conversation now.
To me, we see the communications peoplebeing involved all the time in the
(08:50):
business, and that's a big change fromwhen I started my career, immensely.
And I think we are at our bestwhen we are in the project.
So for example, we didour restructuring project.
I, as a communications person, waspart of the project team, not just
thinking about the communication for theprogram, but what were the decisions?
(09:11):
We know so many times in communications,all the decisions on how things are
going to go are being made, and thenit's like, hey, can you communicate this?
And we've all lived that.
And that still happens, of course.
Sometimes that has to happen that way.
With materiality, or sometimes wehave clinical trial results, we
won't even know what the resultsare until sort of last minute.
So that happens.
(09:32):
But when we can and when weare in the room designing the
program, making the decisions, Ithink it makes a big difference.
And I've gone through a number ofrestructurings in my career, and the ones
that work best are when you're as openas you can be with employees and with all
stakeholders, which is difficult, right?
But what I found is, by designing theprogram, being clear about what it is
(09:57):
that's going to happen, telling peoplein advance, that you're actually able
to move through the change quicker.
So you can wait, not tell them anything,people are behind closed doors.
And when I started at Biogen, that wasactually, there was folklore about a
previous layoff that had happened inthat what I call old school way, where,
rooms suddenly get paper on the glass.
(10:19):
Mm-Hmm.
And HR's meeting withpeople and there was all-
And the whispers.
The whispers and then you know, thesecurity, and the this happened.
And that's the kind of thing youdon't want to have, especially today.
You know, maybe ten or fifteenyears ago that was pretty okay
and it wouldn't get out there.
But anything like that now isdefinitely gonna be on social media.
People are gonna be talking about it.
(10:40):
I don't wanna be designing things or theway that processes are going to be run
in a way that is going to give people anopportunity to question what we're doing.
And so for me, it's almostlike an insurance plan for
the communication to go well.
This time around wewere pretty transparent.
And it is painful.
It is super painful, and you're alwaysdoubting throughout the process, did
(11:04):
we communicate too much too soon?
And can people handle it?
And it's very uncomfortable.
And having leaders who can say, yes, thisis uncomfortable, but ultimately we're
going to get through the change faster.
Versus if we wait till Octoberand then it's D-Day, and then
everyone has to pick up the pieces.
By the time our October came, everyone wasjust sick of it and was ready to move on.
(11:27):
[Laughs]
And they already started toadopt new work practices, right?
So it wasn't just that they put downtools and said, I'm not doing anything.
They're like, okay, I need to startthinking about things differently.
And I think that's really a smartway of working with people in
a very human, transparent way.
Is this a new communications,internal communications strategy?
Is tell people about some bad news untilthey're sick of it, and then it's almost
(11:52):
like, you just get to move on then, right?
It's maybe transparency to the nth degree.
But I do think there's valuein having those conversations
and being really open about it.
We have a CEO who's very open to thatand he talks about things very openly
and also knows what the boundaries are.
I think that that really helps.
So we are blessed to havethat support from the top.
That's great.
So let's move onto somethinga little more positive.
(12:15):
So we've had difficult changecommunications, and then you also have,
obviously, positive change communications.
You've referenced an updated brandrefresh that's been in development.
And I think you just said you're justnow going external with it because
it started out internally focused.
We're really kicking off theproject as a way to engage our
employees around our vision.
So in addition to the culture work,there's new strategy work happening.
(12:39):
And so all of this is pointing in thedirection of where the new Biogen's going
to be and where are we going to be inthe next five, ten, twenty-five years.
What's exciting about that is everyonehas an opinion about the brand, and we
really wanna hear what those opinionsare, so we are designing - Actually,
at the request or suggestion of ourCEO, how can we get employees to be
(13:02):
engaged in the process around our brand?
Because who needs to believe inthat brand more than your employees?
No one.
And that's new for me as well.
Where, in the past we may haveworked on corporate branding
projects and then ta-da, look whatthe communications department did.
That's a way that we've workedor we just look at external data,
(13:23):
we don't really think internallyas much in the design process.
Maybe at the end you're like, okay,and then you, employees, will be the
brand ambassadors, but that's not reallysuccessful, I would say, in today's world.
And so we're creating as we go throughthis brand process, and I can't wait to
see what it's going to be at the end.
(13:44):
[Chuckles]
We're building in opportunitiesto test with employees.
We're building a website where theycan go in, learn about the project,
and then give us feedback real time.
And our creative team is actuallyreally excited about this.
For instance, just as an idea,we're thinking about, okay, how
wild or mild do we want to be?
Like some of those things andhaving employees give us feedback,
(14:06):
maybe on a sliding scale.
We've done that in the past wherewe, as the creative team, have come
up with something we thought wasreally clever, and then when we put
it in front of the scientists whoactually reflect our stakeholders,
they thought it was too wild.
So that's a part of checking ourselves.
But also, our employees are the ones whoare talking to those stakeholders who
(14:27):
understand them and often share a similarmindset and they know what's going to fly.
So having that immediatefeedback is actually a real
gift in the creative process.
And it's a nice reminder that youreally do value the employees and you
really do want them to feel a senseof ownership of the place they work.
Now, what happens when, inevitably, youremployee population is not representative
(14:51):
of your full stakeholder group?
You, undoubtedly, have your employeesover index in some way or another
against what the national population is.
And so how do you make sure that thebrand you're bringing forth is something
that's gonna be well received nationally,representatively, by America as it is
today, and not just by people who aresimilar to the people who work at Biogen?
(15:15):
Yeah and globally, as well.
So that's the other factor to it.
Two things come to mind.
One to me is well then we really needto think about diversity and inclusion
in our organization and how importantthat is and having that representation.
And of course we are going to have theexternal research that's gonna back
up and we'll be testing it with ouraudiences as well as we move forward.
(15:38):
The second thing that I think isreally important is spending some
time with those customers as well.
So, you know, research, absolutely,and the other thing, without
going too vanilla, 'causeI think that's also a risk.
We still wanna have something thatwe put out there that's inspiring.
Even though I would say, even froman organizational perspective, we're
(15:59):
probably becoming more conservative.
I think there's always core principlesthat are believable no matter who you are.
There's sort of thosecore human principles.
That's what I'm trying to get towith this brand refresh project is
what is the core thing that drivesevery human that you believe in?
Everyone believes in resilience.
(16:21):
Everyone believes in changeand the need for change.
What those changes may be will differ.
And the other thing that I thinkis an opportunity for everyone in
pharma and biotech is to really showthe action related to these things.
There's a lot of lofty words out thereof how we describe what we're here to
do, and I get it because you do wannabe inspirational, but I also think you
(16:45):
need to deliver on what you're saying.
So, as we think through this brandrefresh, whatever those words
are on the page, it's gotta besomething that we can deliver on.
How will that look?
Maybe we'll be talking in a fewmonths and we'll have that answer.
Well, that credibilityis obviously critical.
It's something of course, that I'm surethat as you counsel your executives that
you partner with and as agencies counselclients, is you can't set a bar too high
(17:10):
and then fail to deliver against it.
You lose your credibility in the process.
That obviously appliesinternally and externally.
There's been a lot of conversationhere - we're at Fierce Pharma today.
And it's been a lot ofconversation here about this idea
of having a seat at the table.
You brought that back up.
And I love the tongue in cheek way thatthis morning's panel addressed that topic.
It sounded like most of them felt likethey have a folding chair that they
(17:32):
get to bring to the table sometimes.
But they're not always, they'renot in a permanent seat.
They don't have the "upholstered" seat.
They bring the folding chair.
And to some extent, I feel likethat's maybe not such a bad thing.
It's okay to pick and choosewhere it's gonna make sense.
But something you justsaid stood out to me.
As you were saying, you were tryingto find the core values of what
really matters to the company.
(17:54):
That doesn't sound likecommunication strategy to me.
That sounds like corporate strategy.
That sounds like the company's strategy.
Am I misreading that?
Am I overdoing it?
That is central to the company's mission.
There's certainly the corporate strategyaspect of that, but I think there's
one layer, maybe under the iceberglevel, that I would think about, which
(18:15):
is more like the human aspect of it.
And it's interesting how you're talkingabout having a folding chair at the table.
I think that's great.
You don't actually wanna be fully atthe table because then you're not - like
you're drinking the Kool-Aid too much.
And I think it's so importantfor communications people to
bring that outside perspective,to bring the unpopular opinion.
(18:36):
Sometimes it's an unpopularopinion from employees.
Sometimes it's from patient groups.
Sometimes it's from patients.
And if you are part of that executiveteam fully, I wonder if you are
able to challenge in the same way?
Of course, having data is veryimportant and that is something
that you should be feeding intothe organization all the time.
(18:57):
But I also think things arehappening so quickly that you can't
always have the data and you needto be a little further out front.
And it's a little bit like beinga Cassandra in the organization.
You're out front, sometimes seeingthings that other people aren't seeing.
And that's because you're connecting withall kinds of different stakeholder groups.
And that's a privileged place to be, andI wouldn't want to lose that kind of edge
(19:22):
that you have within the organization.
I think it's a really smart pointand an interesting way of thinking
about this is if it's a foldingchair, you can bring it with you.
So you can go and take it toother tables to listen to the
employees and you can take it outand listen to the patient groups.
Of course, it seems like maybe thisshould be obvious, but as communications
professionals, that does imply we shouldbe the ones listening for the company
(19:45):
in addition to speaking for the company,and yet you don't hear that very often.
When we, and we do a lot of these kindsof conversations, so much of our emphasis
is put on what are we gonna say, asopposed to what are other people saying?
Absolutely.
There's all kinds of folklore,or, you know, jokes about two ears
(20:05):
and one mouth, and, all of thosethings that you hear throughout your
career, especially in communications.
And I do think that's a challengefor me, for everyone, especially you
get into the grind of the day to dayand you're running so fast that you
forget to take some time to listen.
Our CEO has, one of the new partsof our culture is think broadly.
Well, how are you gonna think broadly?
(20:26):
You don't think broadlysitting in a room alone.
So you need to be inspired.
You need to talk to otherpeople, and he models that.
He's out there.
He is so well connected andunderstands people in our space.
Last week he was inBrazil visiting employees.
He'll be in the middle of a biotechconference before you know it.
(20:46):
He's out there also living that andunderstanding what's important to
people and being on that cutting edge.
And I think that's an inspiration andit's very easy for communications people
to close in because there's so much ofa grind to just deliver all the time.
Sometimes I find that you'redelivering, delivering, delivering,
but what impact are you having?
(21:08):
And I think that that's an importantpiece that we need to be stepping back
and saying, okay, all of these activitiesthat I'm doing are incremental, but
where are they going to actually?
Like, where's the real opportunity?
And I don't think you see that byjust delivering, delivering every day.
Well, and you've mentioned several timesnow the global nature of your roles and
(21:29):
the organizations that you've worked in.
This becomes even more complex whenyou're trying to communicate to and
listen to people all around the world.
For those who might be listening to thisand have not sat in a global function
or have been in a single country,maybe a US centric function, how would
you describe that experience to them?
And what learnings you have about howto be successful in a global role?
(21:53):
Yeah, no, and it's interesting becauseI didn't start in a global role.
I started my career actuallyin an agency in Canada.
And then at one point I worked for anaffiliate for a large global company.
Then I went and workedfor their headquarters.
Then I went and worked for their USaffiliate, which is almost harder than
working in a headquarter, frankly.
Just because you're both largeand you're close to the market,
so you're getting that instantfeedback, which is interesting.
(22:15):
And I think the global function,what I love about it is you're
connected into everything.
And so that can be wonderful andit can also be super intimidating.
I like to see how allthe pieces fit together.
For me, that's really inspiring.
It's not for everyone.
Where I worked in a US affiliate, itwas more clear what you're delivering.
(22:35):
You're tied directly to the KPIs.
It's a little bit more nebulous whenyou're in a global role and you're
talking about corporate branding.
Well, what is that?
And is that important andwho is that important to?
And as a communications person, you'rethinking of course you need this.
But you do need to sell it in a littlebit more because you're not doing
those things that are so core to thebusiness and delivering on those KPIs.
(23:00):
Reputation.
What is that?
Reputation is driven by behaviors, butit's also driven about what people say
about you, what you say about yourself.
So having that larger story isreally important when you're
thinking in a global role.
Yep.
And what about when you're thinking aboutcreating the environment for your team?
Let's bring all these things together.
Global role, global organization.
(23:21):
Tremendous change in transformationthe company's been going through.
You're inside out.
Employee first is a clear mandate fromthe top being lived by your leadership.
But as I'm sure, like you said,deliver, deliver, deliver.
A lot of pressure to just hey, getthis thing drafted and out the door.
How do you create the space for theteam in that kind of an environment
(23:43):
to actually do their best work?
To think creatively?
Yeah, it's a great question andmaybe you should ask it to some of
them who are at this conference.
[Paul laughing] We'll get a follow,we'll get a follow up answer here.
Exactly.
There may be some better ideas from them.
I think there's a couple of things for me.
One, and by no means is this perfect, andwe also have gone through a restructuring,
(24:03):
so we're getting our sea legs as well.
So the beginning of the year we kindof knew what our goals were and they,
there's certainly pivoting and changingand we're seeing where the organization's
going, where the priorities are.
We've made a couple of acquisitions.
Those are all things that kind ofcome onto your plate and you don't
anticipate, but add to that strain.
So, I think we need to do a betterjob of stepping back and saying,
(24:27):
okay, what here is incrementaland what is transformational?
When can I do those big plays?
'cause you can just get into the dayto day and do things or oh well the
this person or this stakeholder wantsthis thing and carving out time to
step back and think and be inspired.
It's nice to be at this conference.
(24:48):
I just heard one of my employeessay, oh, I got so many great ideas.
I'm a little overwhelmed by that.
But I think it is also an opportunityfor us to think, okay, what is
really going to fix a problem?
Versus just continue to gothrough that daily ground.
I also think empowering people,psychological safety, those are all the
buzzwords, but it's really importantto not freak out when things go wrong.
(25:13):
And that's really hard when you'regoing through so much change yourself.
So, grounding the team, remindingourselves why we're here.
All of those things that one therapistsays to them they need to be doing
is really important for the team, andwe don't get it right all the time.
Yeah, you're right.
It's definitely difficult sometimesto be the one who has to project
calm when all of this change isimpacting you personally also.
(25:37):
We're getting close on time here, soI want to just ask in closing here,
are there any upcoming projects orany initiatives at Biogen that you're
particularly excited about, thatyou think people should hear of?
Well, hopefully we'vetalked about some of them.
Certainly the corporate brandrefresh is very exciting.
I'm very future focused.
That's just my personality and so I'mreally excited about how that's the next
(25:58):
step in the evolution of the company.
We've been around for almost fifty years.
So that to me, I can't wait tocelebrate our 50th anniversary and
imagine what we've accomplishedas an organization for patients.
What we've moved forward.
We have some really interestingthings in our pipeline.
We have some opportunitiesto fill our pipeline more.
(26:19):
I think that's super exciting.
So being part of the companyand being able to shepherd the
organization through that change.
I don't know, I was joking with my boss,I can't wait for our 50th anniversary.
We're revealing a new logo andit's a great moment and we can
celebrate that we've been able tomove the organization through this.
So to me, I'm thinking reallylong term and that's really
(26:40):
what keeps me going every day.
Sounds like another chapter inthat book you're gonna write.
I think so.
Think so.
Well, Tanya, thank you very much.
This has been incredible.
I'm sure our listeners are gonna reallyenjoy hearing all of your insights and
it's been great getting to share a littletime with you here at Fierce Pharma.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Frictionless Marketing.
(27:00):
For a complete transcript of thisconversation or more information on
/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
If you found this episodeinsightful, share it with
your connections on LinkedIn.
To learn more about how to makemarketing frictionless, purchase Friction
Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer,online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is aproduction from /prompt, the
(27:22):
leading earned first creativemarketing and communications agency.
Grounded in the present,yet attuned to the future.
Produced and distributed bySimpler Media Productions.
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing,where we explore the latest
(00:02):
trends and challenges in theworld of marketing and beyond.
In today's episode, we are joined byTanya Wymer, Executive Director of
Enterprise Communications at Biogen.
With a wealth of experience incorporate communications, Tanya's
renowned for her ability to engageboth internal and external stakeholders
through compelling brand campaigns,digital and social channels, and
organizational communication.
(00:23):
As an inclusive and empowering leader,Tanya excels in global roles, aligning
communicators and business leadersacross multiple cultures and geographies.
She is a strong advocate fortransformation and change communication,
emphasizing the importance ofstarting with employees to create a
unified and impactful brand message.
Join us as we dive into Tanya'sinsights and strategies for fostering
(00:44):
creativity, independence, and effectivecommunication in the corporate world.
Welcome to Frictionless Marketing.
I'm your host, Paul Dyer, CEO of /prompt,and today I'm thrilled to be joined
by Tanya Wymer, Executive Director ofEnterprise Communications at Biogen.
Welcome, Tanya.
Thanks so much for having me, Paul.
Thanks for joining us.
(01:04):
Tanya, you've had an impressivecareer in corporate communications.
You wanna start out by just maybe tellingus what inspired you to enter this field?
Well, thank you for that.
I don't know if it's allthat well engineered.
I think a lot of people come intocommunications by happenstance, and I
think that's definitely the case for me.
So I grew up in a farmingcommunity and there weren't a
(01:25):
lot of inspirational people interms of corporate communications.
But I had always loved storytelling.
I'd always gravitated towards that.
Actually in high school I had ateacher who taught this course
called Philosophies and Literature.
It was the first time that Ireally learned about how you could
perpetuate an idea through creativity.
(01:46):
So that was really aninteresting moment for me.
Not that I thought, oh,corporate communications,
this is the next path for me.
I didn't even know it existed.
But always followed what I likedand that ended me in a career
in corporate communications.
So creativity, persuading people,moving things forward in a really
interesting and creative way, visually,with words, that's always been
(02:08):
something that's very appealing to me.
Now, now, hang on, I didn'tknow this background of growing
up in a farming community.
So where was this farming community?
If you think about where the Great Lakesare and you throw a dart right in the
middle, just about there in Ontario,Canada, and I grew up on a poultry farm-
Ah.
Two parents, immigrants, andthen went to school in Toronto.
Wow.
Well, you may not know this, but Iactually worked two summers in cornfields.
(02:31):
It is interesting in that it, itdraws all kinds in terms of learning
how you're gonna communicatewith people down the road.
So, it may not have been all thatengineered as you described it, but it
has been a successful career already.
You've received several prestigiousawards, including the CEO Elements
Award at Biogen in 2022, theCircle of Excellence Award and the
(02:52):
Change Communications Global Awardwhen you were at Nova Nordisk.
I'm curious, have these awardseither directed or shaped the
way that you approach the craft?
It's interesting.
When I think about what I got thoseawards for, they were always for times
when we were really trying to transforma culture and transform an organization.
(03:13):
So I guess, inadvertently, thatseems to be my sweet spot as well.
Being a change agent within anorganization, finding those opportunities
to really engage people across thecompany and also externally with a new
value proposition for the company ora new direction, or even celebrating.
But appreciating where we've comefrom, and then also moving forward.
(03:37):
So in each of those instances,that's really been core to what was
the award-winning work at the time.
So there's a red thread there as well.
Again, leaning into what Ilove, being excited about that.
That's always been core, and I thinkthat's where the success has come from.
That all makes sense, and I lovethat you've opened this door to
transformation and change communication.
(03:57):
Certainly a thread, as you calledit, a red thread in your career.
Also, a red thread in just thestory of Biogen over the last,
maybe five, even ten years.
A lot of ups and downs at Biogen.
In your role today, how do you balancethe many competing interests when it comes
to transformation, change, communicationsand all the different stakeholders and all
(04:20):
the different expectations they have aboutexactly what message is delivered to whom?
You're balancing all of that.
So how do you approach that?
My, my boss and I, we always jokethat we're gonna write a book
about Biogen because it has been sostoried over the last five years.
Absolutely.
But Biogen has a long history.
We're actually in the next few years,we're coming up on our 50th anniversary.
(04:41):
We're one of the first biotechs inthe world, which is pretty exciting.
So we have a lot to draw on that'sreally positive and I think that
is always core to who we are.
While we've made some decisions as abusiness over the past few years that
were unpopular or maybe didn't take inthose multiple stakeholder preferences
or really thinking through all of thosepieces necessarily, I do think that we
(05:05):
are coming to a place - we have a new CEO.
We went through a hugerestructure last year.
At the same time worked on our culture.
So we really started the insidefirst, engaging with our people.
And it's really tough to begoing through a restructure.
We were very transparent aboutit and spoke about, in advance
of when it was happening, weactually told our employees first.
(05:26):
Then we told the market that we weregonna make that change, which is not
necessarily how it is done normally.
So I really have to appreciate ourleadership team for wanting to go in that
direction, and also as a communicationsperson, knowing how much disruption is
going to be for employees, they're theones that need to hear first, right?
And then from there, at the sametime, we did a culture program.
(05:49):
And we said, okay, we want to createa new Biogen, what are we going to be?
Who do we need to be?
How do we need to show up differently?
We've learned some lessonsover the last few years.
What will help us notrepeat those lessons?
So we, at the beginning of thisyear launched a new culture program.
But we had engaged employees allalong the way, asking them what
(06:11):
do you think needs to change?
What do you think we shouldbe doing differently?
And then, what do you wannakeep from our existing culture
and what do you want to change?
So building those together and then launchthe culture at the beginning of this year.
And now we're at a point where we'rethinking about the external world
much more and saying, okay, thisnew Biogen that we're creating,
what is our new value propositionand how does that come through?
(06:33):
And really who are we?
Without too much navel gazing,we do wanna start to think about
who are we now in this world?
Of course, the world haschanged significantly around us.
What is it that we wanna say aboutourselves to the rest of the world that
is also valuable to the rest of the world?
So, for me, getting back to your question,being congruent with your identity no
(06:56):
matter what, especially as employees.
I started my career when Iwas faxing press releases.
Today, we're at a point where any employeewill communicate about your company.
So to me, if it doesn't resonate andit isn't the right message for them,
then it's not the right message.
And we shouldn't just be looking atone stakeholder group, investors.
(07:17):
It has to work for all of our stakeholdersand figuring out who you are and hopefully
if you can come up with somethingthat's simple enough but reflects who
you are, then we'll be successful.
So we're just really embarking onthat journey on the outside now.
What I love about everythingyou just walked us through is
how employee-centric it is.
We've all, of course, seen these exampleswhere a culture is defined at the top
(07:41):
and then rolled out to the employeepopulation, and the employees look at
it and say, that's not our culture.
And instead, you said, of course you haveto take all stakeholders into account,
but it's really clear you're prioritizingemployees as a stakeholder group first.
I think that that's really pretty special.
Obviously, employees have also had somedifficult times to go through at Biogen,
(08:03):
and you talked about some of thosedifficult decisions at the beginning
of your response to that last question.
I'm curious, was communications partof the decision making process there?
Is that something where theysaid, look, we had to make a
business decision, it's been made.
Now it's time to communicate about it.
Or was it more of a, you know,fulsome conversation around what
the potential outcomes or impact ofthis decision from a communication
(08:26):
standpoint were taken into considerationbefore the decision was made?
Yeah, I think as with many things, resultsmay vary, and that's certainly the case.
I think we are getting more into a placewhere communications, and I know we've,
for years had this communication and aseat at the table, and I almost think
that's an irrelevant conversation now.
To me, we see the communications peoplebeing involved all the time in the
(08:50):
business, and that's a big change fromwhen I started my career, immensely.
And I think we are at our bestwhen we are in the project.
So for example, we didour restructuring project.
I, as a communications person, waspart of the project team, not just
thinking about the communication for theprogram, but what were the decisions?
(09:11):
We know so many times in communications,all the decisions on how things are
going to go are being made, and thenit's like, hey, can you communicate this?
And we've all lived that.
And that still happens, of course.
Sometimes that has to happen that way.
With materiality, or sometimes wehave clinical trial results, we
won't even know what the resultsare until sort of last minute.
So that happens.
(09:32):
But when we can and when weare in the room designing the
program, making the decisions, Ithink it makes a big difference.
And I've gone through a number ofrestructurings in my career, and the ones
that work best are when you're as openas you can be with employees and with all
stakeholders, which is difficult, right?
But what I found is, by designing theprogram, being clear about what it is
(09:57):
that's going to happen, telling peoplein advance, that you're actually able
to move through the change quicker.
So you can wait, not tell them anything,people are behind closed doors.
And when I started at Biogen, that wasactually, there was folklore about a
previous layoff that had happened inthat what I call old school way, where,
rooms suddenly get paper on the glass.
(10:19):
Mm-Hmm.
And HR's meeting withpeople and there was all-
And the whispers.
The whispers and then you know, thesecurity, and the this happened.
And that's the kind of thing youdon't want to have, especially today.
You know, maybe ten or fifteenyears ago that was pretty okay
and it wouldn't get out there.
But anything like that now isdefinitely gonna be on social media.
People are gonna be talking about it.
(10:40):
I don't wanna be designing things or theway that processes are going to be run
in a way that is going to give people anopportunity to question what we're doing.
And so for me, it's almostlike an insurance plan for
the communication to go well.
This time around wewere pretty transparent.
And it is painful.
It is super painful, and you're alwaysdoubting throughout the process, did
(11:04):
we communicate too much too soon?
And can people handle it?
And it's very uncomfortable.
And having leaders who can say, yes, thisis uncomfortable, but ultimately we're
going to get through the change faster.
Versus if we wait till Octoberand then it's D-Day, and then
everyone has to pick up the pieces.
By the time our October came, everyone wasjust sick of it and was ready to move on.
(11:27):
[Laughs]
And they already started toadopt new work practices, right?
So it wasn't just that they put downtools and said, I'm not doing anything.
They're like, okay, I need to startthinking about things differently.
And I think that's really a smartway of working with people in
a very human, transparent way.
Is this a new communications,internal communications strategy?
Is tell people about some bad news untilthey're sick of it, and then it's almost
(11:52):
like, you just get to move on then, right?
It's maybe transparency to the nth degree.
But I do think there's valuein having those conversations
and being really open about it.
We have a CEO who's very open to thatand he talks about things very openly
and also knows what the boundaries are.
I think that that really helps.
So we are blessed to havethat support from the top.
That's great.
So let's move onto somethinga little more positive.
(12:15):
So we've had difficult changecommunications, and then you also have,
obviously, positive change communications.
You've referenced an updated brandrefresh that's been in development.
And I think you just said you're justnow going external with it because
it started out internally focused.
We're really kicking off theproject as a way to engage our
employees around our vision.
So in addition to the culture work,there's new strategy work happening.
(12:39):
And so all of this is pointing in thedirection of where the new Biogen's going
to be and where are we going to be inthe next five, ten, twenty-five years.
What's exciting about that is everyonehas an opinion about the brand, and we
really wanna hear what those opinionsare, so we are designing - Actually,
at the request or suggestion of ourCEO, how can we get employees to be
(13:02):
engaged in the process around our brand?
Because who needs to believe inthat brand more than your employees?
No one.
And that's new for me as well.
Where, in the past we may haveworked on corporate branding
projects and then ta-da, look whatthe communications department did.
That's a way that we've workedor we just look at external data,
(13:23):
we don't really think internallyas much in the design process.
Maybe at the end you're like, okay,and then you, employees, will be the
brand ambassadors, but that's not reallysuccessful, I would say, in today's world.
And so we're creating as we go throughthis brand process, and I can't wait to
see what it's going to be at the end.
(13:44):
[Chuckles]
We're building in opportunitiesto test with employees.
We're building a website where theycan go in, learn about the project,
and then give us feedback real time.
And our creative team is actuallyreally excited about this.
For instance, just as an idea,we're thinking about, okay, how
wild or mild do we want to be?
Like some of those things andhaving employees give us feedback,
(14:06):
maybe on a sliding scale.
We've done that in the past wherewe, as the creative team, have come
up with something we thought wasreally clever, and then when we put
it in front of the scientists whoactually reflect our stakeholders,
they thought it was too wild.
So that's a part of checking ourselves.
But also, our employees are the ones whoare talking to those stakeholders who
(14:27):
understand them and often share a similarmindset and they know what's going to fly.
So having that immediatefeedback is actually a real
gift in the creative process.
And it's a nice reminder that youreally do value the employees and you
really do want them to feel a senseof ownership of the place they work.
Now, what happens when, inevitably, youremployee population is not representative
(14:51):
of your full stakeholder group?
You, undoubtedly, have your employeesover index in some way or another
against what the national population is.
And so how do you make sure that thebrand you're bringing forth is something
that's gonna be well received nationally,representatively, by America as it is
today, and not just by people who aresimilar to the people who work at Biogen?
(15:15):
Yeah and globally, as well.
So that's the other factor to it.
Two things come to mind.
One to me is well then we really needto think about diversity and inclusion
in our organization and how importantthat is and having that representation.
And of course we are going to have theexternal research that's gonna back
up and we'll be testing it with ouraudiences as well as we move forward.
(15:38):
The second thing that I think isreally important is spending some
time with those customers as well.
So, you know, research, absolutely,and the other thing, without
going too vanilla, 'causeI think that's also a risk.
We still wanna have something thatwe put out there that's inspiring.
Even though I would say, even froman organizational perspective, we're
(15:59):
probably becoming more conservative.
I think there's always core principlesthat are believable no matter who you are.
There's sort of thosecore human principles.
That's what I'm trying to get towith this brand refresh project is
what is the core thing that drivesevery human that you believe in?
Everyone believes in resilience.
(16:21):
Everyone believes in changeand the need for change.
What those changes may be will differ.
And the other thing that I thinkis an opportunity for everyone in
pharma and biotech is to really showthe action related to these things.
There's a lot of lofty words out thereof how we describe what we're here to
do, and I get it because you do wannabe inspirational, but I also think you
(16:45):
need to deliver on what you're saying.
So, as we think through this brandrefresh, whatever those words
are on the page, it's gotta besomething that we can deliver on.
How will that look?
Maybe we'll be talking in a fewmonths and we'll have that answer.
Well, that credibilityis obviously critical.
It's something of course, that I'm surethat as you counsel your executives that
you partner with and as agencies counselclients, is you can't set a bar too high
(17:10):
and then fail to deliver against it.
You lose your credibility in the process.
That obviously appliesinternally and externally.
There's been a lot of conversationhere - we're at Fierce Pharma today.
And it's been a lot ofconversation here about this idea
of having a seat at the table.
You brought that back up.
And I love the tongue in cheek way thatthis morning's panel addressed that topic.
It sounded like most of them felt likethey have a folding chair that they
(17:32):
get to bring to the table sometimes.
But they're not always, they'renot in a permanent seat.
They don't have the "upholstered" seat.
They bring the folding chair.
And to some extent, I feel likethat's maybe not such a bad thing.
It's okay to pick and choosewhere it's gonna make sense.
But something you justsaid stood out to me.
As you were saying, you were tryingto find the core values of what
really matters to the company.
(17:54):
That doesn't sound likecommunication strategy to me.
That sounds like corporate strategy.
That sounds like the company's strategy.
Am I misreading that?
Am I overdoing it?
That is central to the company's mission.
There's certainly the corporate strategyaspect of that, but I think there's
one layer, maybe under the iceberglevel, that I would think about, which
(18:15):
is more like the human aspect of it.
And it's interesting how you're talkingabout having a folding chair at the table.
I think that's great.
You don't actually wanna be fully atthe table because then you're not - like
you're drinking the Kool-Aid too much.
And I think it's so importantfor communications people to
bring that outside perspective,to bring the unpopular opinion.
(18:36):
Sometimes it's an unpopularopinion from employees.
Sometimes it's from patient groups.
Sometimes it's from patients.
And if you are part of that executiveteam fully, I wonder if you are
able to challenge in the same way?
Of course, having data is veryimportant and that is something
that you should be feeding intothe organization all the time.
(18:57):
But I also think things arehappening so quickly that you can't
always have the data and you needto be a little further out front.
And it's a little bit like beinga Cassandra in the organization.
You're out front, sometimes seeingthings that other people aren't seeing.
And that's because you're connecting withall kinds of different stakeholder groups.
And that's a privileged place to be, andI wouldn't want to lose that kind of edge
(19:22):
that you have within the organization.
I think it's a really smart pointand an interesting way of thinking
about this is if it's a foldingchair, you can bring it with you.
So you can go and take it toother tables to listen to the
employees and you can take it outand listen to the patient groups.
Of course, it seems like maybe thisshould be obvious, but as communications
professionals, that does imply we shouldbe the ones listening for the company
(19:45):
in addition to speaking for the company,and yet you don't hear that very often.
When we, and we do a lot of these kindsof conversations, so much of our emphasis
is put on what are we gonna say, asopposed to what are other people saying?
Absolutely.
There's all kinds of folklore,or, you know, jokes about two ears
(20:05):
and one mouth, and, all of thosethings that you hear throughout your
career, especially in communications.
And I do think that's a challengefor me, for everyone, especially you
get into the grind of the day to dayand you're running so fast that you
forget to take some time to listen.
Our CEO has, one of the new partsof our culture is think broadly.
Well, how are you gonna think broadly?
(20:26):
You don't think broadlysitting in a room alone.
So you need to be inspired.
You need to talk to otherpeople, and he models that.
He's out there.
He is so well connected andunderstands people in our space.
Last week he was inBrazil visiting employees.
He'll be in the middle of a biotechconference before you know it.
(20:46):
He's out there also living that andunderstanding what's important to
people and being on that cutting edge.
And I think that's an inspiration andit's very easy for communications people
to close in because there's so much ofa grind to just deliver all the time.
Sometimes I find that you'redelivering, delivering, delivering,
but what impact are you having?
(21:08):
And I think that that's an importantpiece that we need to be stepping back
and saying, okay, all of these activitiesthat I'm doing are incremental, but
where are they going to actually?
Like, where's the real opportunity?
And I don't think you see that byjust delivering, delivering every day.
Well, and you've mentioned several timesnow the global nature of your roles and
(21:29):
the organizations that you've worked in.
This becomes even more complex whenyou're trying to communicate to and
listen to people all around the world.
For those who might be listening to thisand have not sat in a global function
or have been in a single country,maybe a US centric function, how would
you describe that experience to them?
And what learnings you have about howto be successful in a global role?
(21:53):
Yeah, no, and it's interesting becauseI didn't start in a global role.
I started my career actuallyin an agency in Canada.
And then at one point I worked for anaffiliate for a large global company.
Then I went and workedfor their headquarters.
Then I went and worked for their USaffiliate, which is almost harder than
working in a headquarter, frankly.
Just because you're both largeand you're close to the market,
so you're getting that instantfeedback, which is interesting.
(22:15):
And I think the global function,what I love about it is you're
connected into everything.
And so that can be wonderful andit can also be super intimidating.
I like to see how allthe pieces fit together.
For me, that's really inspiring.
It's not for everyone.
Where I worked in a US affiliate, itwas more clear what you're delivering.
(22:35):
You're tied directly to the KPIs.
It's a little bit more nebulous whenyou're in a global role and you're
talking about corporate branding.
Well, what is that?
And is that important andwho is that important to?
And as a communications person, you'rethinking of course you need this.
But you do need to sell it in a littlebit more because you're not doing
those things that are so core to thebusiness and delivering on those KPIs.
(23:00):
Reputation.
What is that?
Reputation is driven by behaviors, butit's also driven about what people say
about you, what you say about yourself.
So having that larger story isreally important when you're
thinking in a global role.
Yep.
And what about when you're thinking aboutcreating the environment for your team?
Let's bring all these things together.
Global role, global organization.
(23:21):
Tremendous change in transformationthe company's been going through.
You're inside out.
Employee first is a clear mandate fromthe top being lived by your leadership.
But as I'm sure, like you said,deliver, deliver, deliver.
A lot of pressure to just hey, getthis thing drafted and out the door.
How do you create the space for theteam in that kind of an environment
(23:43):
to actually do their best work?
To think creatively?
Yeah, it's a great question andmaybe you should ask it to some of
them who are at this conference.
[Paul laughing] We'll get a follow,we'll get a follow up answer here.
Exactly.
There may be some better ideas from them.
I think there's a couple of things for me.
One, and by no means is this perfect, andwe also have gone through a restructuring,
(24:03):
so we're getting our sea legs as well.
So the beginning of the year we kindof knew what our goals were and they,
there's certainly pivoting and changingand we're seeing where the organization's
going, where the priorities are.
We've made a couple of acquisitions.
Those are all things that kind ofcome onto your plate and you don't
anticipate, but add to that strain.
So, I think we need to do a betterjob of stepping back and saying,
(24:27):
okay, what here is incrementaland what is transformational?
When can I do those big plays?
'cause you can just get into the dayto day and do things or oh well the
this person or this stakeholder wantsthis thing and carving out time to
step back and think and be inspired.
It's nice to be at this conference.
(24:48):
I just heard one of my employeessay, oh, I got so many great ideas.
I'm a little overwhelmed by that.
But I think it is also an opportunityfor us to think, okay, what is
really going to fix a problem?
Versus just continue to gothrough that daily ground.
I also think empowering people,psychological safety, those are all the
buzzwords, but it's really importantto not freak out when things go wrong.
(25:13):
And that's really hard when you'regoing through so much change yourself.
So, grounding the team, remindingourselves why we're here.
All of those things that one therapistsays to them they need to be doing
is really important for the team, andwe don't get it right all the time.
Yeah, you're right.
It's definitely difficult sometimesto be the one who has to project
calm when all of this change isimpacting you personally also.
(25:37):
We're getting close on time here, soI want to just ask in closing here,
are there any upcoming projects orany initiatives at Biogen that you're
particularly excited about, thatyou think people should hear of?
Well, hopefully we'vetalked about some of them.
Certainly the corporate brandrefresh is very exciting.
I'm very future focused.
That's just my personality and so I'mreally excited about how that's the next
(25:58):
step in the evolution of the company.
We've been around for almost fifty years.
So that to me, I can't wait tocelebrate our 50th anniversary and
imagine what we've accomplishedas an organization for patients.
What we've moved forward.
We have some really interestingthings in our pipeline.
We have some opportunitiesto fill our pipeline more.
(26:19):
I think that's super exciting.
So being part of the companyand being able to shepherd the
organization through that change.
I don't know, I was joking with my boss,I can't wait for our 50th anniversary.
We're revealing a new logo andit's a great moment and we can
celebrate that we've been able tomove the organization through this.
So to me, I'm thinking reallylong term and that's really
(26:40):
what keeps me going every day.
Sounds like another chapter inthat book you're gonna write.
I think so.
Think so.
Well, Tanya, thank you very much.
This has been incredible.
I'm sure our listeners are gonna reallyenjoy hearing all of your insights and
it's been great getting to share a littletime with you here at Fierce Pharma.
Great.
Thank you very much.
Appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Frictionless Marketing.
(27:00):
For a complete transcript of thisconversation or more information on
/prompt, please visit us at meetprompt.co.
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To learn more about how to makemarketing frictionless, purchase Friction
Fatigue by /prompt CEO Paul Dyer,online and at booksellers worldwide.
Frictionless Marketing is aproduction from /prompt, the
(27:22):
leading earned first creativemarketing and communications agency.
Grounded in the present,yet attuned to the future.
Produced and distributed bySimpler Media Productions.
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