September 6, 2025 • 26 mins
Dr. Phil Bulone shares his remarkable journey from interior designer to licensed mental health counselor and art therapist, catalyzed by personal tragedy when his partner died by suicide on Christmas Eve 2019.
Phil Bulone
- Tel: +1 813-601-1688
- Website: https://www.philblmhc.com/
- Email: pbulone3@gmail.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phil-bulone-phd-lmhc-atr-bc-8b860b7/
• Licensed mental health counselor and board-certified art therapist working primarily with suicide bereaved
• Currently serves as director of the LOSS team (Local Outreach to Suicide Survivors) with Mental Health America
• Describes having "nine lives" - from psychology degree to interior design to higher education dean to mental health professional
• Started classes in art therapy just 15 days after his partner's suicide, confirming his calling to mental health
• Discussion of the Travis Decker case and responsibility in mental health systems
• Exploration of how personal tragedy can redirect purpose and career paths
• Art therapy as a holistic approach addressing mind, body, and emotions
• Favorite quote: "Be the change you wish to see in the world" - once his late partner's favorite saying
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Voiceover (00:03):
Tales from the wild, stories from the heart.
A journey into the mind andsoul of fired up business
professionals, where they sharetheir vision for the future and
hear from a different non-profitorganization every month as
they create awareness of theirgoals and their needs.
Dive into a world of untamedpassion as we join our host,
(00:27):
Shireen Botha, for this month'sepisode of Friends from Wild
Places.
Shireen Botha (00:35):
All right, welcome.
Welcome, shireen, here.
I am your virtual boutiquebookkeeper and QuickBooks
advisor.
Are you running a service-basedbusiness?
Imagine having more time tofocus on what you love while
boosting your profits.
Let Shireen's bookkeepingservices be your trusted partner
(00:56):
.
Outsourcing your bookkeepingisn't just a cost.
It's an investment that paysoff.
With our monthly meetings, wecreate visibility into your
finances, ensuring you're alwaysin control.
Plus, our consistent clientcommunication builds credibility
, making your business shine.
(01:17):
Looking for business ownerswith bookkeeping issues To have
a free consultation with me?
That's right.
A free consultation with me.
Unlock your business'spotential with Shireen's
bookkeeping issues.
To have a free consultationwith me?
That's right.
A free consultation with me.
Unlock your business'spotential with Shireen's
Bookkeeping Services.
If you want to know more, gocheck me out at www.
shireensbookkeeping.
com and allow me to keep yourbooks clean so you don't have to
(01:41):
Welcome back.
You are listening to Friendsfrom Wild Places with myself,
shireen, your host, and with mybeautiful co-host, tanya.
Hi Tanya, how are you doing?
Tanya Scotece (01:53):
Hello Shireen.
Wow, it's been quite the summerso far here outside Miami Super
hot weather, super fun thingsgoing on.
Just yeah, it's amazing and I'msuper, super excited for our
amazing guests this morning.
So we have Dr Phil Bulonejoining us and I've known Dr
(02:18):
Phil for I don't know Dr Phil,how many years now Quite, maybe
20?
Phil Bulone (02:23):
Yeah, we're going on like well, we're 15.
Tanya Scotece (02:25):
15 years, long time, long time.
So super excited for our guest.
How are things for you, shireen, in South Africa?
How's the weather?
I know it's winter for youthere, correct?
You're opposite of us.
Shireen Botha (02:37):
Yeah, in this area that I'm in is actually
having a colder winter thanusual, actually having a colder
winter than usual, so, but not aproper winter.
See, for me, I love winter.
It's my favorite time of theyear um October.
November is my favorite time inthe US but simply just because
of the chill, the fireplaces,the warmth, the comfy cozies,
(02:59):
the blankets and all that andthis is not something that you
haven't heard from me before butthis area the weather doesn't
get too cold, but it definitelythe temperature is lower, which
I'm always excited about.
So so far we've it's not therainy season here, so, but we
(03:21):
had quite a bit of a storm lastnight, which was quite unusual.
But, tanya, won't you mindtelling the listeners a little
bit about our extra content?
Uh, for these robbers yeah,sure.
Tanya Scotece (03:35):
So at friends from wild places podcast, we are
streamlined on all differentplatforms and we have monthly
guests that we highlight theirwork, what their mission is and
vision.
In addition to that, for $5 amonth, you can actually get raw,
unedited kind of dive, deepinginto subjects that maybe we
(03:56):
don't want to just air publicly.
So if there's any topic thatyou are interested, want to hear
more, anything, it could beimposter syndrome, anxiety,
anything to do with not feelinggood enough, not feeling strong
enough, not feeling smart enoughthat's what we're here to dive
into, these deep subjects.
So for our subscription paidsubscription, $5 a month, and
(04:20):
we'll be happy to have you onboard.
And if you haven't shared yourpodcast with your friends,
please do so.
We are looking to increase oursubscriber list, so be happy for
more subscribers.
Back to you.
Shireen Botha (04:33):
Cherie.
Yes, thank you Tanya.
Yeah, it's only $5.
And really the subscription isjust the support.
We need your support tocontinue doing this.
We really appreciate youlistening.
This is just a step a littlebit further and we are looking
at sponsorship.
So we are doing our best fromour side to do what we enjoy
(04:56):
doing and that's to put thiscontent out for all of our
business owners andentrepreneurs out there.
If you're looking for morecontent, last month we were
chatting to a lady namedAngeline, so she's a consultant.
So if you want to go and checkthat out, please go ahead and
look for that.
But yes, let's get into it.
(05:17):
So I'd love to introduce alittle bit more formally and
officially.
Phil is a licensed mentalhealth counselor and
board-certified art therapistand works primarily with the
suicide bereaved.
He works in community mentalhealth as the director of the
LOSS team, which means LocalOutreach to Suicide Survivors
(05:43):
with Mental Health America ofSouthwest Southeast Florida.
So, phil, welcome.
It's so good to have you on theshow with us.
Phil Bulone (05:55):
Thank you.
Thank you so much Good to behere.
Shireen Botha (05:57):
Yeah, so I'm sure I've mentioned this to you, but
I know our listeners know thisabout myself and Tanya.
We do enjoy, uh, keeping upwith all the true crimes that
are current and ongoing trials.
Uh, right now there's actuallyquite an interesting one and
(06:18):
also a very heartbreaking onethat's going on.
Uh, he's still on the run.
He hasn't been caught yet.
I'm not sure if they're gonnato be.
This is my personal opinion.
I'm not sure if they're gonnaactually find him alive.
Um, I don't know why.
I feel like he might dosomething to himself, but, uh,
(06:39):
that's my just my opinion.
So if you don't know what I'mtalking about, I'm talking about
Travis Decker.
So by the time you hear this,he might have been found or he
might not have, but at thispoint in time he's still on the
run.
I think my biggest question thatI want to ask for, lantania, is
you know, do you think theveteran system played a part in
(07:02):
the death of these beautifullittle girls by failing to help
Travis Decker with his mentalhealth when he asked for it?
So, listeners, a little bitmore information on the case.
If you don't know, key detailsis that the victims are his
three young daughters.
(07:22):
Peyton was nine, evelyn waseight and Olivia was only five.
The girls were found withplastic bags over their heads
and their wrists zip-tied, withauthorities determining their
cause of death was,unfortunately, suffocation.
The location the bodies werefound and Decker's abandoned
(07:46):
truck was found in a remotecampsite in and I'm gonna
butcher this name, so help mehere, it's okanoguan national
forest.
Oh, can someone help me there?
Tanya, am I pronouncing thatright?
Phil Bulone (08:04):
I don't know.
Tanya Scotece (08:06):
Your guess is as good as ours.
We have a lot of names aroundhere we can't pronounce either.
Phil Bulone (08:12):
Whereabouts is that ?
Shireen Botha (08:15):
It's in Washington, it's near
Leavenworth in Washington.
I'm sorry if I'm getting itwrong.
It's Okanagan wenatcheenational forest, but yes,
leavenworth, washington was thelocation.
(08:36):
Uh suspect, as you guys canguess, it's travis decker, who's
an army veteran, um, and isaccused of the murders and is
currently at large Investigationis obviously the authorities
are conducting a manhunt forDecker, who they consider
dangerous and very well versedin the wilderness survival.
(08:58):
So we'll see.
But a little bit more about thebackground of Decker.
Decker's ex-wife has previouslyexpressed concern about his
mental instability and he wasreportedly undergoing a
disciplinary discharge from theWashington National Guard.
Ex-wife has also mentioned isshe's actually holding the VA
(09:30):
authorities responsible becauseshe actually feels that they
have failed her children by nothelping Travis with his mental
struggles when it arose.
So that brings me back to theoriginal question is do you
think full and tanya, do youthink the veteran system played
a part in the death of theselittle girls by failing to help
(09:53):
travis decker with his mentalhealth?
When asked full, do you want tojust fill in?
Phil Bulone (10:00):
yeah, that's a tough one.
Um, I mean this the mentalhealth is so complicated, you
know, and the system is socomplicated.
So, yeah, I mean, what a tragicand sad story.
You know, there's so manydifferent levels of care.
(10:20):
It's hard to for me, it's hardto kind of like pinpoint where
maybe, you know, it sort of wentawry, because the whole process
really is very complicated andsort of convoluted in my opinion
.
So I have a lot of, you know,empathy for the family and for
the children, and it's hard tosay whether the VA, you know,
(10:44):
played such a final sort of rolein it, because a lot of it
really, too, is up to the person, to, you know, get the help
that they need, stay on theirmeds, you know, and get those
different levels of care thatreally are needed.
So many times we think thatthere's such a quick fix.
Or, you know, there's a formulato all of this.
(11:05):
And, interestingly enough, youknow I feel like when you were
talking about it, there's someparallels to suicide in a sense,
because you know I feel likewhen you were talking about it,
there's some parallels tosuicide in a sense, because you
know suicide really is a mentalhealth disease.
So you know there's.
So it's just so complicated andwe want to blame or place
responsibility on someone elsefor something and that's a
(11:29):
that's a really tough thing.
So in the end he really did doit.
so you know supposedly, or youknow I mean if he took that
action, then he did that, soit's hard to point fingers to um
the va, in my opinion, althoughit is all complicated yeah,
yeah kanye, what about yourself?
Tanya Scotece (12:05):
When we sit here as a society and just point one
finger at one thing or oneorganization or one institution,
it's you know, I think I meaneverybody could sit here and say
, well, childhood had a play,and your upbringing and where
you were raised and what you didand how you were treated, and
mental instability, biological,so, you know, did everything
(12:26):
play a role in this action?
You could actually say probablyyes, everything did play a role
in this action.
You could actually say probably, yes, everything did.
But to sit here and slander youknow, the veterans, or to say
that they, it was their fault,that's not a fair in my opinion.
I mean, I think it's, you know,and you know the Veterans
Administration in the UnitedStates is, as Dr Phil mentioned,
very complicated, very layered.
(12:46):
You know, there's many veteransthat you know need support,
that don't choose support, eventhough they're a veteran.
There's many veterans that youknow need support that don't
choose support, um, even thoughthey're a veteran.
There's others that you know,do ask, you know, but there's
just, it's so, um, in my opinion, like layered and multifaceted
um, so I think everything playsa role, right, everything.
But at the end of the day, I'mgoing to agree with dr phil.
It's like you know, a person'sactions is the person's actions.
Shireen Botha (13:16):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you both more than
that.
Ultimately, it was his decision.
Whatever led, whatever eventled, to that decision that he
made, it still was his decisionat the end of the day.
And no matter how much we pointfingers, it really doesn't help
.
It is what it is.
(13:36):
It's happened.
Those poor little girls, thefamily that's left behind.
You know it's a shame that ithappened, but these things do
happen and it is there.
We can only control ourselves.
So I guess you know, whateverparty you are that is involved
(14:04):
somehow in the situation, um,you know, all I would say is
look inwards, look good inwards,and and try and figure out how
each party can figure out whatto do to better themselves, to
try and avoid these kind ofsituations at the end of the day
(14:24):
.
Um, but yeah, I think, insteadof pointing fingers, I think
let's just look at ourselves.
And it's a very sad thing.
You know it's happened, it washis decision at the end of the
day, but we can't controleveryone else's actions but only
our own.
So we'll see.
He's on the run.
I've told you that I have asuspicion that I don't think
(14:48):
that he's going to be foundalive, but that is my suspicion
and nevertheless, let's move on.
Phil, I'd love you just tostart by just telling the
listeners a little bit about whoyou are and your background.
Phil Bulone (15:09):
Yeah, so I feel like I have like nine lives, to
be honest.
Well, I'm originally from NewYork area, and then I have moved
to South Florida, so that's howI kind of know, tanya.
And, having said that, I feellike I've come full circle in
(15:30):
sort of like my academic andcareer life over the past
decades.
So yeah, so I had received abachelor's degree in psychology,
and then I went on the studyabroad program which I was so
proud of.
You know I paid for it bymyself, and you know I'm
Italian-American, so I went toItaly, and it was a big deal for
me.
While there, though, whatreally sort of touched my heart
(15:53):
was architecture and design andsort of creative side of things,
which has always been a part ofme as forever as I could
remember.
So, after I got my bachelor's inpsychology, I went the design
route, and I got a master'sdegree in interior design.
I tried out architecture for awhile, but I knew that wasn't
(16:16):
really it, because I reallywanted to work on projects that
kind of really helped providesort of deep meaning and
experiences for people, and Iwas really interested in how
people were affected by likespaces and their environment.
So that's kind of took me thatroute, but I always had this
sort of again thread ofpsychology interest, so I got
(16:37):
into that.
And then, you know a couple ofthings, one thing led to another
and I, you know, I worked indesign hospitality design,
retail design and, because I hada master's degree and I had a
young family at the time,working lots of different jobs I
was teaching at night and thatkind of formulated into more of
(16:58):
a full-time teaching job, andthen career and higher education
, and I was a dean of a designand technology college for a
little bit, and that's where Igot my doctorate in education,
curriculum instruction, adulteducation, and that's again
where I had met Dr T, and sothings were kind of going along.
(17:20):
And then, actually, there was alot of sort of, I guess, change
within the higher educationsystem, like in 2015 area, and
the school I worked for was a itwas a conglomerate of a bunch
of different schools they allclosed, so then I had to kind of
like figure out what I wasgoing to do again.
So I went back into design andworked in that for a few more
(17:42):
years, and I always found thoughit was a pattern that I was
like sort of the one that wasdeveloping people and creating
these like workshops incorporate America for like,
self-development or humanpotential or things like that.
So I was inspired to kind of atleast start the process of
(18:06):
going back to school again.
I don't know, I guess my firstword was book this is what my
mom tells me, so I'm clearly alifelong learner.
But I was thinking about goingback to school and bringing
everything together, like mybackground beginnings in
psychology and design and art,so to become an art therapist
(18:29):
and a mental health counselor.
So I started that process andjust sort of like interestingly
enough, I'm divorced, but I hadbeen with a woman Her name is
Nicole for seven years.
I mean, we acted like we weremarried, so we call each other
spouses, we wore rings and owneda home together and committed
(18:50):
to each other and lived asspouses.
Um christmas eve 2019, she diedby suicide.
So in that moment, um, you know, in sort of a kind of weird way
, in that moment, I kind of knewthat then this was really my
calling and I felt really realdeep confirmation in that moment
(19:12):
to continue to go back toschool for something in the
mental health field.
So I started my classes 15 daysafter she died and again I'm in
a program in art therapy andcounseling and so for the last
five years that's where I'vebeen.
You know, graduated in 2022,takes a couple of years to get
(19:35):
licensed.
You know her life as well asour experience and and kind of
my experience also finding herand just bringing together these
(19:57):
nine lives.
Tanya Scotece (20:00):
Oh my gosh, what a journey.
What a journey.
Dr Phil, what year did you earnyour PhD?
Phil Bulone (20:06):
2016.
Tanya Scotece (20:07):
2016.
Okay, okay, yes, we're almamater USF Tampa uh tampa.
Yeah, yeah, what an amazingjourney, though, as far as just
you know, um, you know tyingeverything, and it's amazing
that your first book was uh, Imean, your first word was book,
my first word was pillow.
I don't know what that means,but I don't know what was your
(20:30):
first word?
Pillow, pillow, pillow.
Oh, okay, yeah, my pillow.
That was my first word.
Phil Bulone (20:36):
So it's so fun.
Tanya Scotece (20:38):
Yeah, wow, shereen, I'm going to turn it
back over to you.
But, shereen, do you know whatyour first word was?
I actually don't.
Shireen Botha (20:44):
I really don't.
It's a very interestingquestion.
There's a lot I can't rememberfrom being a baby, but thank you
so much.
Phil Bulone (20:56):
Yeah, maybe the first word does have to do with,
like, how you sort of handlestress or cope through life.
I don't know.
It's something to look into.
Yeah, it's a very interesting.
Tanya Scotece (21:03):
Yeah, because it's true.
If I get stressed, I like mypillow, I like to meditate,
de-stress, relax, chill.
So Meditate de-stress, relax,chill.
So there is something, yeah,there is something about it, but
no.
Your journey, though, and we'lldive deeper into your story
with Nicole and how you'vedeveloped into the restorative I
always call it restorativeartist because I just had you
(21:24):
recently at my three-day collegeperforming a workshop so, but
the art therapy side of things,and really the I guess it's the
somatic release, would you?
Would you describe it like?
Like that?
As far as you know, releasingemotions through art is that is
that.
Phil Bulone (21:40):
Yeah, I would say, you know, it's very, you know,
very holistically oriented, yeah, the mind, the body, the
emotions, exactly yeah very nice.
Shireen Botha (21:49):
First of all I want to say I'm so sorry to hear
thank you about your well, your, your partner, your, your
friend, your partner.
Um, that must have beenabsolutely life-changing, uh,
which you know I can't imagine.
But you know this part of thepodcast.
(22:12):
We always do the quote of themonth and normally that's
something that our guests willshare with us and then tell us
what it means to them.
Um, so, you know, listeners,phil gave us his quote and it
says it ties together with hisstory of his friend and his
(22:32):
partner that passed.
He said be the change that youwish to see in the world.
Be the change that you wish tosee in the world.
Phil, what does that mean toyou?
Phil Bulone (22:46):
Yeah, I know it means so many different things.
Yeah, I know it.
Just, you know it means so manydifferent things.
Um, you know one thing about it, though, like at one point, um,
that was actually Nicole's umfavorite quote.
I believe it was her favoritequote because she had a poster
made of it and to put in heroffice, um, and I remember kind
(23:09):
of like helping her um createthe poster and was like, oh, all
these quotes they're so clicheand I was, like, you know, kind
of in that like mode duringthose years.
You know, and I don't know, Ifelt sort of like a little bit
regretful actually for sort ofsaying that and kind of having a
bit of that attitude towards,you know, quotes in general and
(23:33):
things like that.
And um, so after she died,after she died, I actually
cleaned out her office andbrought that um poster and that
quote with me and then now, acouple of years later, it's like
it's kind of focal point in myown office.
So, um, I feel like it's reallyhelped me to in my healing
process to kind of to kind ofcome back to some of these like
(24:00):
simple truths, you know, theselittle nuggets of wisdom that
really are through quotes orquotes that become kind of
cliches, you know, and that onein particular, really, you know,
resonates with me in the senseof personally, how, you know,
it's important for me to kind ofbe internal and to go in and to
(24:24):
kind of we've talked, we'vesaid words of responsibility
before.
Right To me it has a lot to dowith about responsibility and
calling and giving back andserving others.
Um, you know, these are allmajor themes that I had seen in
nicole's own life and then, andyou know, and and clearly in my
life as well, but now they justhave such a deeper meaning.
(24:47):
You know, and I believe gandhiwas the one who, um, who
originated that quote, or youknow, at least it became maybe
popular by him, and you knowjust kind of looking towards
these kind of historic figuresas role models and you know kind
of his gentleness and hiscompassion for others and you
know kind of non-violentperspective and all of those
(25:09):
kind of elements and themes sortof point to why I find that one
of my favorite quotes.
Shireen Botha (25:15):
Right.
Thank you, phil.
Would you say that the passingof Nicole was the decider to
change your career and become alicensed mental health counselor
?
Um, was that the the defining?
Phil Bulone (25:33):
yeah, I mean, I had little inklings before and I
had started the process oftaking some pre-rec classes and
things like that, but then, um,clearly, yeah, when with the
passing of nicole, is whatreally just solidified and again
confirmed, confirmed that sortof change in my path?
Tanya Scotece (25:50):
yeah, tune in next week for part two from
Friends from Wild Places.
Voiceover (25:56):
You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places
with Shireen Botha.
Be sure to subscribe to thepodcast from the links to catch
every episode and unleash yourpassion.
Tales from the wild, stories from the heart.
A journey into the mind andsoul of fired up business
professionals, where they sharetheir vision for the future and
hear from a different non-profitorganization every month as
they create awareness of theirgoals and their needs.
Dive into a world of untamedpassion as we join our host,
(00:27):
Shireen Botha, for this month'sepisode of Friends from Wild
Places.
Shireen Botha (00:35):
All right, welcome.
Welcome, shireen, here.
I am your virtual boutiquebookkeeper and QuickBooks
advisor.
Are you running a service-basedbusiness?
Imagine having more time tofocus on what you love while
boosting your profits.
Let Shireen's bookkeepingservices be your trusted partner
(00:56):
.
Outsourcing your bookkeepingisn't just a cost.
It's an investment that paysoff.
With our monthly meetings, wecreate visibility into your
finances, ensuring you're alwaysin control.
Plus, our consistent clientcommunication builds credibility
, making your business shine.
(01:17):
Looking for business ownerswith bookkeeping issues To have
a free consultation with me?
That's right.
A free consultation with me.
Unlock your business'spotential with Shireen's
bookkeeping issues.
To have a free consultationwith me?
That's right.
A free consultation with me.
Unlock your business'spotential with Shireen's
Bookkeeping Services.
If you want to know more, gocheck me out at www.
shireensbookkeeping.
com and allow me to keep yourbooks clean so you don't have to
(01:41):
Welcome back.
You are listening to Friendsfrom Wild Places with myself,
shireen, your host, and with mybeautiful co-host, tanya.
Hi Tanya, how are you doing?
Tanya Scotece (01:53):
Hello Shireen.
Wow, it's been quite the summerso far here outside Miami Super
hot weather, super fun thingsgoing on.
Just yeah, it's amazing and I'msuper, super excited for our
amazing guests this morning.
So we have Dr Phil Bulonejoining us and I've known Dr
(02:18):
Phil for I don't know Dr Phil,how many years now Quite, maybe
20?
Phil Bulone (02:23):
Yeah, we're going on like well, we're 15.
Tanya Scotece (02:25):
15 years, long time, long time.
So super excited for our guest.
How are things for you, shireen, in South Africa?
How's the weather?
I know it's winter for youthere, correct?
You're opposite of us.
Shireen Botha (02:37):
Yeah, in this area that I'm in is actually
having a colder winter thanusual, actually having a colder
winter than usual, so, but not aproper winter.
See, for me, I love winter.
It's my favorite time of theyear um October.
November is my favorite time inthe US but simply just because
of the chill, the fireplaces,the warmth, the comfy cozies,
(02:59):
the blankets and all that andthis is not something that you
haven't heard from me before butthis area the weather doesn't
get too cold, but it definitelythe temperature is lower, which
I'm always excited about.
So so far we've it's not therainy season here, so, but we
(03:21):
had quite a bit of a storm lastnight, which was quite unusual.
But, tanya, won't you mindtelling the listeners a little
bit about our extra content?
Uh, for these robbers yeah,sure.
Tanya Scotece (03:35):
So at friends from wild places podcast, we are
streamlined on all differentplatforms and we have monthly
guests that we highlight theirwork, what their mission is and
vision.
In addition to that, for $5 amonth, you can actually get raw,
unedited kind of dive, deepinginto subjects that maybe we
(03:56):
don't want to just air publicly.
So if there's any topic thatyou are interested, want to hear
more, anything, it could beimposter syndrome, anxiety,
anything to do with not feelinggood enough, not feeling strong
enough, not feeling smart enoughthat's what we're here to dive
into, these deep subjects.
So for our subscription paidsubscription, $5 a month, and
(04:20):
we'll be happy to have you onboard.
And if you haven't shared yourpodcast with your friends,
please do so.
We are looking to increase oursubscriber list, so be happy for
more subscribers.
Back to you.
Shireen Botha (04:33):
Cherie.
Yes, thank you Tanya.
Yeah, it's only $5.
And really the subscription isjust the support.
We need your support tocontinue doing this.
We really appreciate youlistening.
This is just a step a littlebit further and we are looking
at sponsorship.
So we are doing our best fromour side to do what we enjoy
(04:56):
doing and that's to put thiscontent out for all of our
business owners andentrepreneurs out there.
If you're looking for morecontent, last month we were
chatting to a lady namedAngeline, so she's a consultant.
So if you want to go and checkthat out, please go ahead and
look for that.
But yes, let's get into it.
(05:17):
So I'd love to introduce alittle bit more formally and
officially.
Phil is a licensed mentalhealth counselor and
board-certified art therapistand works primarily with the
suicide bereaved.
He works in community mentalhealth as the director of the
LOSS team, which means LocalOutreach to Suicide Survivors
(05:43):
with Mental Health America ofSouthwest Southeast Florida.
So, phil, welcome.
It's so good to have you on theshow with us.
Phil Bulone (05:55):
Thank you.
Thank you so much Good to behere.
Shireen Botha (05:57):
Yeah, so I'm sure I've mentioned this to you, but
I know our listeners know thisabout myself and Tanya.
We do enjoy, uh, keeping upwith all the true crimes that
are current and ongoing trials.
Uh, right now there's actuallyquite an interesting one and
(06:18):
also a very heartbreaking onethat's going on.
Uh, he's still on the run.
He hasn't been caught yet.
I'm not sure if they're gonnato be.
This is my personal opinion.
I'm not sure if they're gonnaactually find him alive.
Um, I don't know why.
I feel like he might dosomething to himself, but, uh,
(06:39):
that's my just my opinion.
So if you don't know what I'mtalking about, I'm talking about
Travis Decker.
So by the time you hear this,he might have been found or he
might not have, but at thispoint in time he's still on the
run.
I think my biggest question thatI want to ask for, lantania, is
you know, do you think theveteran system played a part in
(07:02):
the death of these beautifullittle girls by failing to help
Travis Decker with his mentalhealth when he asked for it?
So, listeners, a little bitmore information on the case.
If you don't know, key detailsis that the victims are his
three young daughters.
(07:22):
Peyton was nine, evelyn waseight and Olivia was only five.
The girls were found withplastic bags over their heads
and their wrists zip-tied, withauthorities determining their
cause of death was,unfortunately, suffocation.
The location the bodies werefound and Decker's abandoned
(07:46):
truck was found in a remotecampsite in and I'm gonna
butcher this name, so help mehere, it's okanoguan national
forest.
Oh, can someone help me there?
Tanya, am I pronouncing thatright?
Phil Bulone (08:04):
I don't know.
Tanya Scotece (08:06):
Your guess is as good as ours.
We have a lot of names aroundhere we can't pronounce either.
Phil Bulone (08:12):
Whereabouts is that ?
Shireen Botha (08:15):
It's in Washington, it's near
Leavenworth in Washington.
I'm sorry if I'm getting itwrong.
It's Okanagan wenatcheenational forest, but yes,
leavenworth, washington was thelocation.
(08:36):
Uh suspect, as you guys canguess, it's travis decker, who's
an army veteran, um, and isaccused of the murders and is
currently at large Investigationis obviously the authorities
are conducting a manhunt forDecker, who they consider
dangerous and very well versedin the wilderness survival.
(08:58):
So we'll see.
But a little bit more about thebackground of Decker.
Decker's ex-wife has previouslyexpressed concern about his
mental instability and he wasreportedly undergoing a
disciplinary discharge from theWashington National Guard.
Ex-wife has also mentioned isshe's actually holding the VA
(09:30):
authorities responsible becauseshe actually feels that they
have failed her children by nothelping Travis with his mental
struggles when it arose.
So that brings me back to theoriginal question is do you
think full and tanya, do youthink the veteran system played
a part in the death of theselittle girls by failing to help
(09:53):
travis decker with his mentalhealth?
When asked full, do you want tojust fill in?
Phil Bulone (10:00):
yeah, that's a tough one.
Um, I mean this the mentalhealth is so complicated, you
know, and the system is socomplicated.
So, yeah, I mean, what a tragicand sad story.
You know, there's so manydifferent levels of care.
(10:20):
It's hard to for me, it's hardto kind of like pinpoint where
maybe, you know, it sort of wentawry, because the whole process
really is very complicated andsort of convoluted in my opinion
.
So I have a lot of, you know,empathy for the family and for
the children, and it's hard tosay whether the VA, you know,
(10:44):
played such a final sort of rolein it, because a lot of it
really, too, is up to the person, to, you know, get the help
that they need, stay on theirmeds, you know, and get those
different levels of care thatreally are needed.
So many times we think thatthere's such a quick fix.
Or, you know, there's a formulato all of this.
(11:05):
And, interestingly enough, youknow I feel like when you were
talking about it, there's someparallels to suicide in a sense,
because you know I feel likewhen you were talking about it,
there's some parallels tosuicide in a sense, because you
know suicide really is a mentalhealth disease.
So you know there's.
So it's just so complicated andwe want to blame or place
responsibility on someone elsefor something and that's a
(11:29):
that's a really tough thing.
So in the end he really did doit.
so you know supposedly, or youknow I mean if he took that
action, then he did that, soit's hard to point fingers to um
the va, in my opinion, althoughit is all complicated yeah,
yeah kanye, what about yourself?
Tanya Scotece (12:05):
When we sit here as a society and just point one
finger at one thing or oneorganization or one institution,
it's you know, I think I meaneverybody could sit here and say
, well, childhood had a play,and your upbringing and where
you were raised and what you didand how you were treated, and
mental instability, biological,so, you know, did everything
(12:26):
play a role in this action?
You could actually say probablyyes, everything did play a role
in this action.
You could actually say probably, yes, everything did.
But to sit here and slander youknow, the veterans, or to say
that they, it was their fault,that's not a fair in my opinion.
I mean, I think it's, you know,and you know the Veterans
Administration in the UnitedStates is, as Dr Phil mentioned,
very complicated, very layered.
(12:46):
You know, there's many veteransthat you know need support,
that don't choose support, eventhough they're a veteran.
There's many veterans that youknow need support that don't
choose support, um, even thoughthey're a veteran.
There's others that you know,do ask, you know, but there's
just, it's so, um, in my opinion, like layered and multifaceted
um, so I think everything playsa role, right, everything.
But at the end of the day, I'mgoing to agree with dr phil.
It's like you know, a person'sactions is the person's actions.
Shireen Botha (13:16):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you both more than
that.
Ultimately, it was his decision.
Whatever led, whatever eventled, to that decision that he
made, it still was his decisionat the end of the day.
And no matter how much we pointfingers, it really doesn't help
.
It is what it is.
(13:36):
It's happened.
Those poor little girls, thefamily that's left behind.
You know it's a shame that ithappened, but these things do
happen and it is there.
We can only control ourselves.
So I guess you know, whateverparty you are that is involved
(14:04):
somehow in the situation, um,you know, all I would say is
look inwards, look good inwards,and and try and figure out how
each party can figure out whatto do to better themselves, to
try and avoid these kind ofsituations at the end of the day
(14:24):
.
Um, but yeah, I think, insteadof pointing fingers, I think
let's just look at ourselves.
And it's a very sad thing.
You know it's happened, it washis decision at the end of the
day, but we can't controleveryone else's actions but only
our own.
So we'll see.
He's on the run.
I've told you that I have asuspicion that I don't think
(14:48):
that he's going to be foundalive, but that is my suspicion
and nevertheless, let's move on.
Phil, I'd love you just tostart by just telling the
listeners a little bit about whoyou are and your background.
Phil Bulone (15:09):
Yeah, so I feel like I have like nine lives, to
be honest.
Well, I'm originally from NewYork area, and then I have moved
to South Florida, so that's howI kind of know, tanya.
And, having said that, I feellike I've come full circle in
(15:30):
sort of like my academic andcareer life over the past
decades.
So yeah, so I had received abachelor's degree in psychology,
and then I went on the studyabroad program which I was so
proud of.
You know I paid for it bymyself, and you know I'm
Italian-American, so I went toItaly, and it was a big deal for
me.
While there, though, whatreally sort of touched my heart
(15:53):
was architecture and design andsort of creative side of things,
which has always been a part ofme as forever as I could
remember.
So, after I got my bachelor's inpsychology, I went the design
route, and I got a master'sdegree in interior design.
I tried out architecture for awhile, but I knew that wasn't
(16:16):
really it, because I reallywanted to work on projects that
kind of really helped providesort of deep meaning and
experiences for people, and Iwas really interested in how
people were affected by likespaces and their environment.
So that's kind of took me thatroute, but I always had this
sort of again thread ofpsychology interest, so I got
(16:37):
into that.
And then, you know a couple ofthings, one thing led to another
and I, you know, I worked indesign hospitality design,
retail design and, because I hada master's degree and I had a
young family at the time,working lots of different jobs I
was teaching at night and thatkind of formulated into more of
(16:58):
a full-time teaching job, andthen career and higher education
, and I was a dean of a designand technology college for a
little bit, and that's where Igot my doctorate in education,
curriculum instruction, adulteducation, and that's again
where I had met Dr T, and sothings were kind of going along.
(17:20):
And then, actually, there was alot of sort of, I guess, change
within the higher educationsystem, like in 2015 area, and
the school I worked for was a itwas a conglomerate of a bunch
of different schools they allclosed, so then I had to kind of
like figure out what I wasgoing to do again.
So I went back into design andworked in that for a few more
(17:42):
years, and I always found thoughit was a pattern that I was
like sort of the one that wasdeveloping people and creating
these like workshops incorporate America for like,
self-development or humanpotential or things like that.
So I was inspired to kind of atleast start the process of
(18:06):
going back to school again.
I don't know, I guess my firstword was book this is what my
mom tells me, so I'm clearly alifelong learner.
But I was thinking about goingback to school and bringing
everything together, like mybackground beginnings in
psychology and design and art,so to become an art therapist
(18:29):
and a mental health counselor.
So I started that process andjust sort of like interestingly
enough, I'm divorced, but I hadbeen with a woman Her name is
Nicole for seven years.
I mean, we acted like we weremarried, so we call each other
spouses, we wore rings and owneda home together and committed
(18:50):
to each other and lived asspouses.
Um christmas eve 2019, she diedby suicide.
So in that moment, um, you know, in sort of a kind of weird way
, in that moment, I kind of knewthat then this was really my
calling and I felt really realdeep confirmation in that moment
(19:12):
to continue to go back toschool for something in the
mental health field.
So I started my classes 15 daysafter she died and again I'm in
a program in art therapy andcounseling and so for the last
five years that's where I'vebeen.
You know, graduated in 2022,takes a couple of years to get
(19:35):
licensed.
You know her life as well asour experience and and kind of
my experience also finding herand just bringing together these
(19:57):
nine lives.
Tanya Scotece (20:00):
Oh my gosh, what a journey.
What a journey.
Dr Phil, what year did you earnyour PhD?
Phil Bulone (20:06):
2016.
Tanya Scotece (20:07):
2016.
Okay, okay, yes, we're almamater USF Tampa uh tampa.
Yeah, yeah, what an amazingjourney, though, as far as just
you know, um, you know tyingeverything, and it's amazing
that your first book was uh, Imean, your first word was book,
my first word was pillow.
I don't know what that means,but I don't know what was your
(20:30):
first word?
Pillow, pillow, pillow.
Oh, okay, yeah, my pillow.
That was my first word.
Phil Bulone (20:36):
So it's so fun.
Tanya Scotece (20:38):
Yeah, wow, shereen, I'm going to turn it
back over to you.
But, shereen, do you know whatyour first word was?
I actually don't.
Shireen Botha (20:44):
I really don't.
It's a very interestingquestion.
There's a lot I can't rememberfrom being a baby, but thank you
so much.
Phil Bulone (20:56):
Yeah, maybe the first word does have to do with,
like, how you sort of handlestress or cope through life.
I don't know.
It's something to look into.
Yeah, it's a very interesting.
Tanya Scotece (21:03):
Yeah, because it's true.
If I get stressed, I like mypillow, I like to meditate,
de-stress, relax, chill.
So Meditate de-stress, relax,chill.
So there is something, yeah,there is something about it, but
no.
Your journey, though, and we'lldive deeper into your story
with Nicole and how you'vedeveloped into the restorative I
always call it restorativeartist because I just had you
(21:24):
recently at my three-day collegeperforming a workshop so, but
the art therapy side of things,and really the I guess it's the
somatic release, would you?
Would you describe it like?
Like that?
As far as you know, releasingemotions through art is that is
that.
Phil Bulone (21:40):
Yeah, I would say, you know, it's very, you know,
very holistically oriented, yeah, the mind, the body, the
emotions, exactly yeah very nice.
Shireen Botha (21:49):
First of all I want to say I'm so sorry to hear
thank you about your well, your, your partner, your, your
friend, your partner.
Um, that must have beenabsolutely life-changing, uh,
which you know I can't imagine.
But you know this part of thepodcast.
(22:12):
We always do the quote of themonth and normally that's
something that our guests willshare with us and then tell us
what it means to them.
Um, so, you know, listeners,phil gave us his quote and it
says it ties together with hisstory of his friend and his
(22:32):
partner that passed.
He said be the change that youwish to see in the world.
Be the change that you wish tosee in the world.
Phil, what does that mean toyou?
Phil Bulone (22:46):
Yeah, I know it means so many different things.
Yeah, I know it.
Just, you know it means so manydifferent things.
Um, you know one thing about it, though, like at one point, um,
that was actually Nicole's umfavorite quote.
I believe it was her favoritequote because she had a poster
made of it and to put in heroffice, um, and I remember kind
(23:09):
of like helping her um createthe poster and was like, oh, all
these quotes they're so clicheand I was, like, you know, kind
of in that like mode duringthose years.
You know, and I don't know, Ifelt sort of like a little bit
regretful actually for sort ofsaying that and kind of having a
bit of that attitude towards,you know, quotes in general and
(23:33):
things like that.
And um, so after she died,after she died, I actually
cleaned out her office andbrought that um poster and that
quote with me and then now, acouple of years later, it's like
it's kind of focal point in myown office.
So, um, I feel like it's reallyhelped me to in my healing
process to kind of to kind ofcome back to some of these like
(24:00):
simple truths, you know, theselittle nuggets of wisdom that
really are through quotes orquotes that become kind of
cliches, you know, and that onein particular, really, you know,
resonates with me in the senseof personally, how, you know,
it's important for me to kind ofbe internal and to go in and to
(24:24):
kind of we've talked, we'vesaid words of responsibility
before.
Right To me it has a lot to dowith about responsibility and
calling and giving back andserving others.
Um, you know, these are allmajor themes that I had seen in
nicole's own life and then, andyou know, and and clearly in my
life as well, but now they justhave such a deeper meaning.
(24:47):
You know, and I believe gandhiwas the one who, um, who
originated that quote, or youknow, at least it became maybe
popular by him, and you knowjust kind of looking towards
these kind of historic figuresas role models and you know kind
of his gentleness and hiscompassion for others and you
know kind of non-violentperspective and all of those
(25:09):
kind of elements and themes sortof point to why I find that one
of my favorite quotes.
Shireen Botha (25:15):
Right.
Thank you, phil.
Would you say that the passingof Nicole was the decider to
change your career and become alicensed mental health counselor
?
Um, was that the the defining?
Phil Bulone (25:33):
yeah, I mean, I had little inklings before and I
had started the process oftaking some pre-rec classes and
things like that, but then, um,clearly, yeah, when with the
passing of nicole, is whatreally just solidified and again
confirmed, confirmed that sortof change in my path?
Tanya Scotece (25:50):
yeah, tune in next week for part two from
Friends from Wild Places.
Voiceover (25:56):
You've been listening to Friends from Wild Places
with Shireen Botha.
Be sure to subscribe to thepodcast from the links to catch
every episode and unleash yourpassion.
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