April 26, 2024 • 50 mins
According to the American Physical Therapy Association (APTA), approximately 2.9 million annual injuries occur in sports, athletic, and recreational settings, with sprains and strains accounting for the largest portion of injuries at 41.4 per 1,000. Truly, the universal recommendation is that we all engage in physical activity and exercise due to its evidence-based benefits on our cardiopulmonary health and general wellness. However, how do we do so safely in order to avoid injury? How can professional athletes engage in training that assures safety while achieving desired progress? How can one with chronic pain still increase stamina and endurance during workouts? And in cases of pain and injury, how can one rehabilitate properly without needing surgery?
We are joined today by Doctor of Physical Therapy and board-certified Orthopedic Clinical Specialist, Dr. Harris Choe. He received his BS in Psychobiology from UCLA and DPT from the University of Southern California Division of Biokinesiology and Physical Therapy, where he also completed his residency as an Orthopedic Clinical Specialist. Dr. Choe was previously an Adjunct Faculty Member at USC for physical therapy clinical reasoning and interventional skills. Since 2022, he has stood as the Founder and Owner of HYC Physio Physical Therapy and Sports Performance in Santa Monica, California, where individualized physical therapy services are provided to professional athletes to help rehabilitate from injury, eliminate chronic pain, and return to high performance.
Livestream Air Date: August 3, 2023
Follow Dr. Harris Choe, PT, DPT, OCS: Instagram, YouTube
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi friends, happy Friday, I hope you're all doing well.
(00:08):
I'm actually in Las Vegas right now, I might think of the desert, the sun, but all I can
think of is the cigar smoke in this hotel lobby.
But anyways, I'm enjoying time with great friends and members of the AAPI community
for the 2024 Uplifted Conference by Asian Hustle Network, or AHN.
For those who may not know, Aechon is a global networking community of Asian entrepreneurs
(00:31):
and creatives, which started out as a Facebook group, has now grown into projects, podcasts,
ventures, and a beautiful community.
In fact, I met a few of our podcast expert guests throughout the seasons through AHN,
including our special guest in today's episode.
But before I introduce our guest, I wanted to say that the Olympics is coming up soon
this summer.
It's going to be held in Paris, and if you don't know by now, it's one of my favorite
(00:54):
cities.
Should I fly out and watch?
I don't watch many sports, because I don't understand them, but I do love watching the
competitions because it just leaves me in awe each time, especially gymnastics.
If you didn't know, I dove into gymnastics and hip hop dancing growing up, not competitively,
but I did enjoy continued taking classes until college.
Now I just feel like my bones will break, and I recently did.
(01:18):
And honestly, it also died before, mostly sprains and tears.
But it makes me think of these Olympians, and even outside the Olympics, just professional
athletes as a whole.
You hear of so many heartbreaking stories of athletes going through injuries that result
in permanent damages.
All their hard work and hopes and dreams fly away with that injury.
You know, according to the American Physical Therapy Association, approximately 2.9 million
(01:44):
annual injuries occur in sports, athletic, and recreational settings, with sprains and
strains accounting for the largest portion of injuries at 41.4 per 1000.
I mean truly, the universal recommendation is that we all engage in physical activity
and exercise due to its evidence-based benefits in our cardiopulmonary health and general
wellness rate.
But how do we do so safely in order to avoid injury?
(02:07):
Specifically, how can professional athletes engage in training that assures safety while
achieving their desired progress?
And outside of injury, how can someone with chronic pain still increase stamina and endurance
during workouts?
And in cases of pain and injury, how can one rehabilitate properly without needing surgery?
Or is surgery the first and only option?
(02:28):
In today's episode, we are joined by a dear friend and just an overall amazing and inspiring
person, Dr. Harris Choe, Doctor of Physical Therapy and Board Certified Orthopedic Clinical
Specialist from California.
He studied Psychobiology in undergrad, fulfilled his doctorate in PT at USC, where he also
completed his residency as an orthopedic clinical specialist.
(02:48):
Dr. Harris is previously an adjunct faculty member at USC for physical therapy, clinical
reasoning, and interventional skills.
As of 2022, he is said to be the founder and owner of HYC Physio, Physical Therapy and
Sports Performance in Santa Monica.
More individualized physical therapy services are provided to professional athletes to rehabilitate
from injury, eliminate chronic pain, and return to high performance.
(03:12):
Are you ready for this marathon?
I can't wait for all of you to meet him.
Hello.
Hey.
Yay.
I'm so excited to have you on tonight.
I'm so honored to have you join me today to talk about so many things.
Thank you so much.
If you could just first please introduce yourself to everybody.
(03:32):
Thank you.
Of course.
My name is Dr. Harris Choe.
I'm a doctorate of physical therapy and I have my own clinic out here in Santa Monica,
California.
I first met Chris earlier this year and it's kind of surreal that kind of connecting the
end of the middle of the year, but I'm super excited to be here.
Yes.
I feel like we saw each other so many times this year in just a span of how many months,
(03:55):
right?
Your story has inspired me so much and I love the work you do and I love the work in the
field of physical therapy.
I pulled my hamstring before because of gymnastics.
I hurt my knee many times before out of different things.
It's always the physical therapist to save the day.
So I'm so excited to talk about not only your field, but your practice.
(04:18):
But I always want to know the reasons why someone went into their field.
Can you tell us more about your journey into physical therapy, how your schooling went
like, which I know is so long, and also your inspirations behind pursuing the field?
Is it a family member, friends, or personal experience?
Of course.
Going into undergraduate school, I actually had no idea what physical therapy was.
(04:40):
I actually have never gone to physical therapy.
If anything, growing up in an Asian household, I've been to a lot of chiropractors just because
a lot of family friends were chiropractors, like punctuaries.
So that's where I started.
Halfway through the year, I had a friend who was pursuing physical therapy and that's when
I was like, oh, maybe that's a career.
I thought I would be in the health field.
(05:01):
I just didn't know where.
So by the end of the four years of undergraduate school, I was really into CrossFit and Olympic
Weightlifting.
If you know a little bit about it, it's very technical.
At a certain time, it goes boom and everyone was talking about it, YouTubers, Instagramers,
people writing articles on it.
So out of pursuit of wanting to be better myself at the sport, I started to really look
(05:25):
into it.
My biggest inspiration was probably a doctor named Quinn Henick.
He specialized in Olympic Weightlifters and I read every article, every YouTube video
on him.
At the end of each article, there's a little bio, right?
And he was like, oh, he played football in college and at some point he pursued a doctor
of physical therapy.
And simple as that, I was amazed by his knowledge of biomechanics, anatomy, physiology, and
(05:50):
me myself wanting to learn more.
I was like, hey, what better way than to go to school myself?
And that's how I ended up pursuing this path of physical therapy.
Yeah, I love it.
You know, you mentioned also like Asian household mostly, you know, about chiropractors and
the chiropractic field and that's so true, right?
And I feel like when it comes to the field of like therapy, especially within the physical
(06:11):
sense, there's kind of a lot of careers that may overlap or may cause confusion for some
people, right?
I think in May, when you saw each other at inter-career, right?
I brought my cousin Kyle, who was an occupational therapy student.
And I guess at the human height of it all, we were talking to some people and one of
the girls was like, to my cousin, she's like, oh, what are you doing?
(06:31):
She's like, oh, I'm an occupational therapy student.
And she was like, oh, you know, I need therapy.
My mental health has been so bad, right?
So I feel like within the field of therapy, there's so many therapists, there's occupational
therapists, physical therapists, speech therapists.
There's sometimes hard to see the delineation between the different fields, right?
As a doctor of physical therapy, how do you explain the premise of the field of physical
(06:54):
therapy of your profession as a physical therapist?
And how does it differ from, I guess, more closely related fields such as OTs and maybe
PMNR doctors, right, and also chiropractors?
Of course.
I think there's little nuances depending on each person's exposure to the field.
Obviously, if someone has been to the chiropractor before, they're used to joint manipulation.
(07:18):
They sit down there, they assess your body, and they head to toe, they crack your body.
And then whether it's heat, electrical stimulation, they end with that.
That's the old age of chiropractor.
And then occupational therapist is, I see the clear delineation when you're in the hospital.
In the hospital, you see an OT when there's more of an upper extremity injury or upper
(07:39):
extremity disability, as opposed to a physical therapist, it's more of the rest of the body,
from the trunk to the legs.
And so that's how I differentiate those two.
In the grand scheme of things, I don't really differentiate the fields too much.
In the end, it's a collaborative effort.
And so whether it's massage therapist, chiropractor, or an OT, we all work together.
And so my main goal is, is the client, is the patient getting the treatment they deserve?
(08:04):
And maybe the OT has better skill sets to help the client.
And if that's the case, then I refer them out to an OT.
And so recognizing that I'm not the end all be all solution, but that there's a wide team
of experts, I think that's a better view than just saying, hey, chiropractor, only way to
go.
PT, only way to go.
It's more of, oh no, how can we mix it together so that the person at the center of it is
(08:28):
receiving the care they deserve?
Yeah, I love that so much.
I feel like, especially in healthcare, right?
There's a term that we always talk about, just insert a similarity seems like it's just
a mesh of all the disciplines together.
Everyone has something to contribute and help in different levels.
Right?
When it comes to, I guess, the work itself, physical therapy, what are the most common,
(08:51):
I guess, conditions or concerns why someone would need a physical therapist?
Of course.
The most common one is right after injury, whether it's ACL tear, meniscus, labral tear,
the hips or the shoulders.
But more often than not, what people don't recognize is people actually come in with
months and years of pain.
So they don't come in right after the pain or something.
(09:12):
They come in after, oh, the ankle sprain turned into a knee pain, a hip pain, and then a low
back pain.
Now it's affecting my everyday life, it's affecting my work.
And then they come in.
Very rarely, unless you're an athlete and you have the access to a medical staff, do
they come in right after injury, fresh off of injury.
The majority of the time it's people who have either injured in months or years ago or older
(09:34):
folks who injured in high school.
And now they're dealing with some of the aftermath of that.
And so I think that's one thing that people don't recognize in terms of the client pool
that we see as physical therapists.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I feel like there's things that I did in the past that are now affecting me
now.
I feel like I was in gymnastics when I was younger.
I feel like I'm reaping all the repercussions in this age.
(09:56):
And I'm like, is it time to see a regular physical therapist?
And I think that's a common question for patients in the general public is when do I start seeing
someone, whatever discipline it may be.
If, let's say, someone is, oh, I have this pain.
Do I see this type of doctor, this type of doctor, this type of doctor?
(10:17):
When it comes to injury, right, and being a physical therapist, where does someone make
that decision of like, when is the time someone considers surgery or physical therapy or,
oh, let's do physical therapy first and then maybe we'll need surgery?
Of course.
I think that that's the biggest question with a lot of people.
It's whether they go with surgery or they go conservative, whether conservative is physical
(10:39):
therapy, PMR docs, ERP, cortisone and whatnot.
A lot more research is coming out nowadays where they see no significant difference between
surgery and a conservative approach.
Not all conditions, but more and more research is coming out.
And of course, it's going to take a few years before that's implemented into physical practice.
(10:59):
But usually a lot of doctors, especially on the West side, have geared towards being proactive
towards conservative approach.
And so they say, hey, why don't you go see a physical therapist?
Why don't you get a cortisone shot or a PRP, something else, really give a good go at it
and then after a few months, if it doesn't change at all, your pain isn't changing and
in fact is getting worse, then we can dive deeper into it.
(11:22):
And so that's a positive trend that I've seen in the medical field, which I'm super thankful
for because I think not everyone needs surgery, quite honestly.
So I'm glad the direction that we're going with the newer docs and the younger medical
professionals that we're headed in a really good direction.
(11:44):
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There's many times in the hospital too when we have patients and we'll talk amongst each
other and be like, do they really need surgery?
Can we do a more conservative approach first?
And I think it's so great that now in the times of, I guess, the internet and especially
(15:07):
in social media, right, we see a meshing of so much information.
And what we've been seeing recently is like a trend of mixing, I guess, Western and Eastern
medicine and practices together, right, where I think we're starting to come to this, I
guess, all these believe that the body can heal itself.
We just have to support in some way, right, to reach that point.
(15:29):
And that's what I've seen with my physical therapist, right, where it was like, you know,
your body will take time to heal.
Just like, you get a cut, it will also heal.
And you get this, it will also heal.
And I've seen this approach so many times now.
And I think it's such a beautiful thing, right?
It's really relying on your body and the things that we can do and with professionals like
you.
(15:50):
And I guess this is why you also open up your own practice, right, HIC?
Can you tell us some more about when you started your practice and I guess what's your mission
behind it?
I actually started it during the pandemic.
That's why I take the name.
So at the time, I just graduated from my Ortega residency and I started it.
But I dealt with a huge imposter syndrome, absolutely the worst case of imposter syndrome.
(16:16):
I was questioning everything I was doing.
I was questioning whether I'll be able to help people, whether I was doing the right
thing.
And so because of that, I joined another practice that had a similar mission as myself, which
was how can we eliminate the fillers?
How can we make the one hour session absolutely beneficial?
Every session is used to empower, to educate and to really make a change on the person.
(16:39):
And so I learned for a year at a different practice.
And from there, I learned the business model.
I learned more on clinical practice.
And through that, I was able to, at the end of last year, start off my own practice at
Santa Monica.
And so during that time, I, since the end of last year to now, I've been investing into
the community, reaching out to athletes, working with different coaches, different sports and
(17:02):
all that.
And so it's been very positive.
My ultimate goal is to be the resource in Santa Monica, in West LA.
I want to be the guy where they're like, oh, I don't really know what's happening.
I need some clarity or this pain is not going away.
I want to be that guy.
I want to be the guy to be like that hope, to be that light for a person who's been having
painful while.
(17:23):
And so that was my primary goal is quite honestly, I'm pretty sure you see it too.
The standard of health care all across the US is quite frankly, not that high.
Everyone's burnt out.
The quality of care given by people is very low.
And so my goal is to make that standard higher so that when my clients or people that know
me go somewhere else, they're like, oh, why is this like this?
(17:45):
Wow, it should be at a different level.
And so my goal is to raise the bar in that way.
Yeah, I love that so much.
I agree with you.
I feel like health care in general, the United States, when it comes to standards and quality,
I mean, also like what do we do when the workers are burnt out?
Right?
What do you do when the access keeps getting thinner and thinner?
Right.
And so it's important to have these programs and places and facilities like yours, right?
(18:10):
Where we can also bridge that gap and that access and make it more approachable to everyone,
especially in the community of Santa Monica, right?
And I know that the choice is approach is very individualized, as says in the website,
right?
I guess what individualized, I get the sense of the word individual, right?
Like we have so many different people with so many different concerns coming into your
practice with different needs and like, oh, Dr. Harris, this is what I want to achieve.
(18:32):
This is what I want to attain.
This is what I want to fix, right?
Whether it be pain or working through mobility throughout injury and stuff like that.
I guess I wanted to break it down to very daily matter.
What is the bread and butter of HYC?
Like, what would you say are the most common concerns and the reasons why people go or
you see in your practice?
This is what I call an avatar.
(18:54):
The person that I want to walk to my clinic, the person that I see often is someone who
has been to different health professionals, whether it's another PT, a chiropractor, or
they've even gone and MRI shots.
And so a lot of these people have been through the wringer, have been through the medical
system.
They've actually Googled the hell out of their injury and they know possibly every article
out there.
(19:15):
But yet they're still in pain.
You're not getting results.
So those are the types of people that I see.
And so I don't have like a magic sauce in that.
I don't like having a machine.
I don't rub my hands with something.
It's simply listening to the story.
I believe if the client is probably the best historian of their pain.
And there's a lot of things, whether it's time constraints or the quality of service,
(19:38):
where a lot of the story doesn't get hurt, gets butchered.
So the moment that a client comes in, they say, oh, I have knee pain from running.
The doctor goes, oh, stop running.
Or oh, let's get a shot.
Oh, let's put a brace on it.
And so there's like these standards of care that are really outdated, but people are still
giving them out like sheets of paper.
And so my goal is listening to their story and what are we missing here?
(20:00):
Like they've probably received every red laser therapy out there in West LA, but what are
they missing?
They're probably missing something else.
It's not the technology.
It's not anything else.
It's having a provider who listens.
And so my goal is to listen to their story.
How can we make that story fit into physical therapy so that we can reach their goals?
And so I think that's what the bread and butter of HIC Physio is.
(20:22):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, when I was first starting on the hospital, one of the PT's told me, well, they
were helping me get the patient out of bed who had orthostatic hypotension and now guiding
me.
They were like, when you listen to a patient expressing their pain, when someone's complaining
of physical pain, it's always double.
It's that physical pain and also the emotional toll that that pain imbues.
(20:45):
I think aside from, oh, why am I feeling this way?
When you're in pain, you ask, oh, why am I the one feeling this?
What did they do to make this happen?
Or what could I have avoided to not have this pain?
And when you're in pain, it's like, that's all you can think about.
And there's so many limitations when you feel like, oh, I can't move this extremity or whatnot.
(21:06):
And you've said that, I guess, you're putting better patients who have gone through the
wringer and have tried several things, have gone through so many providers.
When it comes to this physical pain, how would your approach be different from all of the
other wringers that have been through it before?
I think it's realizing that it's not a do this and don't do this and don't do that.
(21:27):
I think a large chunk of what's missing is it's not the technology, it's not the exercises,
it's not the fancy app that shows you how many sets of reps, but it's the education.
The person wants to know, what is it?
How do I get rid of it?
And how do I prevent it from getting back?
And as probably you know is, you could probably tell a patient one thing one day, two days
(21:50):
down, you ask them again, they don't remember it.
Unless they're very in tune with the medical field and they understand the terminology,
a lot of people don't remember certain things because they got the rest of life, they got
kids, they got families, they got responsibilities.
And so the goal is how can we educate them so that it sticks?
Is the delivery different?
We have to draw something on a board.
(22:11):
Are they visual learners?
Do I have to keep repeating it?
Do I have to need a little push, like a friendly push up, hey, like, here's a friendly reminder
of what we need to do, this is what it is.
And so I think that's what makes the biggest difference is how does the patient best learn?
Because if they don't learn, they're not going to help.
The way I teach you will be different from the person right next door.
(22:34):
So the goal is how can we empower them in the language that they understand so that
they get it and they feel motivated to buy into their plan.
Yeah, super agree that education and empowerment is so important, right?
Like you said earlier, most times if someone's in pain, the doctor will be like, oh, then
don't do that.
All right.
And I feel like it's just a bandaid to the actual injury that happened, right?
(22:57):
The patient leaves the clinic or the hospital not knowing why they're having the pain and
what they can do about it.
I guess in a very Westernized healthcare as well, it's like pop the pills, get the injections,
right?
But they don't have that foundational, oh, this is the things that I can do, right?
There's no gentle reminder and stuff like that.
And when it comes to education, you do a lot of education when it comes to fitness and
(23:22):
exercise online and your platform, right?
And you also mentioned that you work with a lot of athletes and coaches as well.
And I know that you were previously a performance physical therapist where you worked with high
school athletes, right?
You know that you worked with so many athletes who I would think would be well versed in
exercises and different workouts.
I'm sure mistakes still happen or I guess they come in with misconceptions when it comes
(23:46):
to exercises, right?
Things that they think were correct, whether they're form or they're technique.
I guess what would be the most common mistakes when it comes to workouts or exercise or I
guess modalities to pain that you have seen your clients come in with that if these athletes
get it wrong, definitely the general public also got it wrong as well.
(24:07):
Yeah, I think just like you said before, there's a lot of information on the internet.
And so there's a lot of people who are misinformed.
And so there's no way for them to find out what's good or bad because the misinformation
of fortunately is very popular.
So that's what gets pushed in the algorithm.
That's what gets pushed in the advertisement.
That's what gets pushed on all these acts.
(24:28):
And so fighting against that is truly uphill battle.
So there just needs to be more professionals who are preaching the right stuff.
And so what happens with a lot of athletes probably is they do too much to assume whether
it's high school athlete, it's an ego thing.
They go to their gym and then the buddy next to them is like, oh, I'm going to squat this
(24:49):
much and they're like, oh, I'm going to squat this much.
And that's where injuries happen.
Or it's a professional athlete who is already really strong, really fast.
So whatever you give them, they will look good doing it.
But whether they're utilizing the right muscles or doing it correctly is probably the bigger
question.
The execution is a question, not the selection of the exercise.
(25:09):
And so finding out their baseline and trying to educate them, hey, like, you're still going
to get faster with this lighter load.
You're still going to get stronger.
You're still going to maximize the benefits.
Don't have to load up the bar.
You don't have to take the biggest weight in the room.
You will still be the best athlete you can be with lighter weight, proper execution.
(25:30):
So that's probably what I try to preach the most with a lot of athletes.
In fact, some of them are like, hey, like you're already doing so much during season.
You're already lifting a lot.
Why don't we do some other stuff?
Why don't we do some body weight stuff?
Why don't we do something different?
Because my goal is not to add on to the pounds that your body is already getting.
My goal is what is the problem?
What are they not getting?
(25:51):
What stimulus are they not getting?
And then giving them that.
Not just adding the same thing that all the other coaches are adding on to these athletes.
So that's the primary goal.
Yeah, I love that.
You talk about like really extending someone's capabilities to a point that it can cause
injury, right?
Well, a question I'm very curious about.
When I used to take some gymnastics classes, especially learning like, I guess, more of
(26:15):
the flexibility and the flexions and the extensions.
I remember the coach would always be like, oh, if it hurts, that means you're getting
there.
You're getting close to whatever that you want to achieve, especially for the split.
I was like, I feel like I'm going to tear every muscle in my hands.
Oh, if you're feeling pain, that means it's okay.
Well, as a doctor of physical therapy, so obviously have so much education and training
(26:40):
when it comes to the body and pain and exercise and mobility.
When is the pain during exercise and workouts, how do you deal with pain?
Like obviously not pain that someone came in with, but pain during exercise.
Is this a sign of progression or is this a sign to stop the exercise?
(27:01):
When is the time where it's like, oh, you know, just lactic acid working versus like,
oh, you're going to sprain or tear something.
Yeah.
That's probably a question I get a lot from athletes, people who are growing up doing
athletics.
I think the old saying is no pain no gain.
There's a time and place for it.
So depending on what is causing the pain, what is causing your, like whether it's a muscle,
(27:25):
tendon, nerve, whatever it is, that will differentiate whether you can push you the pain a little
bit or the pain is okay.
For the general public to find out what that thing is, that's hard.
So that's why I always say go get assessed because sometimes pushing past that may be
good if it doesn't cause injury, that's great.
I'm so happy.
But if it does, then we want to avoid that.
(27:47):
If what if.
And so probably want to get assessed by a health professional before you push through
that because if you have tendonitis issues, then you do want to load it and it won't always
be pain free.
But if it's something structural and something that's probably not good for you, that's probably
not a good thing to push past those limits.
But unfortunately, there's just no way for you to find out unless you get looked by a
(28:08):
professional.
So that's what I recommend.
Get assessed, don't guess.
Yeah.
And I guess when you're talking about limits, it also kind of brings me the question of
mind of I guess limitations people place on themselves when it comes to I guess exercising
or working out, even going to the physical therapist and doing their sessions.
From what I remember from my physical therapy sessions, especially coming out of injury,
(28:32):
I think it's talked about is usually going back to the stamina that you had or the endurance
that you had before.
I guess reclaiming what was lost because of the injury.
I'm not trying to be a world star Olympic athlete.
And maybe many people in the room are not.
For the general public, can we really train stamina and endurance, especially I know you
(28:56):
see a lot of athletes, when it comes to limitations, is there a limit to what one's endurance
or I guess physical exercise goals may be?
I think there are truly physical limits that you can be, but I think the general public
doesn't come even close.
So if you're a professional athlete, then you probably want to get monitored, your VSU
(29:17):
max, your heart rate and all that.
For the general public, I think the majority of the general public doesn't get enough
physical activity.
And so I know the World Health Organization released some numbers in 2022, I believe.
And so they recommended actually, I'm going to butcher this a little bit, but if you can
reference it maybe later, it's 150 to 300 minutes of moderate intensity aerobic activity
(29:42):
a week for anyone older than 18.
And then including two days a week or more of strength training where you hit all the
muscle groups.
So that's what they found to be beneficial to help not just the stamina and aesthetics,
but actually to improve your health, to reduce risk of lung disease, cardiovascular, diabetes
(30:02):
and all that stuff.
And so I think rather than stamina, unless you're an elite athlete getting paid to do
it, the majority of the public is more of how can we be healthy?
So as we get older, we're able to walk up and down the stairs without pain and without
huffing and puffing.
Or when you get a kid, you're able to run around with a kid without feeling like your
back is about to break.
(30:23):
I think those are greater goals for the general public than, oh, let me maximize my stamina.
Yeah, I think there's different priorities here.
Hi friends, Wickeddendem here, just in reference to what Dr. Harris was just talking about
regarding the World Health Organization physical activity recommendations from 2022, which
he did not butcher at all, by the way.
Here are the actual fact sheet details from the organization.
(30:45):
The WHO placed the recommendations by age group from infants to adults, and even those
with chronic conditions, pregnant and postpartum, and those with disability.
But for the sake of the majority of our podcast audience demographic, I'll be sharing the
recommendations for adults aged 18 to 64 years old.
According to the WHO, in a 24 hour day, adults aged 18 to 64 should engage in at least 150
(31:09):
to 300 minutes of moderate intensity aerobic physical activity, or at least 75 to 150 minutes
of vigorous intensity aerobic physical activity.
They should also do muscle strengthening activities at a moderate or greater intensity that involve
all major muscle groups on two or more days a week.
Why?
The WHO states that regular physical activity can improve muscular and cardiorespiratory
(31:33):
fitness, improve bone and functional health, reduce the risk of hypertension, coronary
disease, stroke, diabetes, various types of cancer including breast cancer and colon cancer,
and depression.
It reduces the risk of falls as well as hip and vertebral fractures, and help maintain
healthy body weight, which, as we know, can also influence the previously mentioned comorbidities.
(31:53):
Okay, let's go back to the episode.
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I think when it comes to priorities, right?
(35:37):
I mean, we all heard of New Year's resolution of I'm going to start working out.
I'm guilty of that.
I'm going to start exercising, stretching or whatnot.
And I think the first block today is always like, oh, how do I start doing that?
Right?
How do you, I guess, encourage your new clients as their physical therapist into this journey
(36:01):
of, I guess, a health journey, right?
Of going to exercise or even someone who's just coming out of injury.
How do you encourage someone with that fear of like, oh, I don't know how to start this
journey?
My favorite term is what is the lowest hanging through?
What is the easiest thing they can do?
They don't have to buy it.
It's free and they can easily incorporate into their life.
(36:23):
The most common thing is walking, whether it's with a dog or you have kids going to
a playground.
And so I tell people, hey, why don't you start walking?
It doesn't always have to be going to the gym or signing up for classes or anything
like that.
I think it's, oh, how can we just incorporate something that lets me just enjoy?
If it's hiking, go hiking.
If it's playing pickleball or tennis with your friends, why don't you try that out a
(36:46):
little bit?
Why don't you go out and do it a little bit?
Because I think getting out and doing something that you enjoy and can easily access is far
greater than telling you, hey, you need to go sign up for this program, this diet program,
this exercise program, and then you need to drop this to buy this and this.
And there's just too many obstacles.
The average person will not go through that many obstacles to work out.
(37:09):
They're probably going to sit, watch Netflix, or do something else.
And so the goal is what fits into their lifestyle, what do they enjoy, and what is truly accessible
to them.
Yeah.
And I guess when it comes to a lot of those barriers to that working out, definitely there's
a lot of mental barriers as well.
I guess that mindset of, well, I want to start doing this or whatnot.
(37:31):
But there's also actual tangible physical possible limitations to working out or exercising
or attaining that physical health that someone wants.
And I think a big part of that is injury, right?
Whether it's someone who got into a motor vehicle accident and is coming back to exercising
(37:52):
or something so chronic like lower back pain, which a lot of my patients have, and I think
it's got spread to me as well.
Even acute injuries, for like a knee sprain or ankle sprain or whatnot.
That can be a limitation for many people, right?
Outside of just usual daily life, they can't sit down, they can't stand up, they can't
(38:17):
lay down a certain way to sleep.
But in the topic of working out, should injury be a barrier to someone to start that journey
of working out?
Like how do you work on mobility despite both chronic and acute injury?
That's a lot there.
(38:37):
I think there's always something to work on.
So what I've divided into is there's, you can divide it into upper body, core, lower
body, just to be as simple as possible.
You could divide it into cardio, upper body strength, hypertrophy, lower body strength,
hypertrophy.
There's always something to work on.
(38:57):
So if there was someone like, someone just came out of surgery from ankle injury and
they're in a boot, they can't really do any leg exercises.
You can still work on cardio with, I don't know if you've seen like a skiing machine
where you row it or a rower.
You can really have to use too much of the ankle or you could do just the arm bike.
And so you make it intense enough so that you keep the cardiovascular system up.
(39:20):
And you could even still work on the core and the upper body.
Because if you wait for the ankle injury or that one injury to heal, you're wasting so
much time, especially as someone who wants to be healthy and someone who, especially
if you're trying to return to sports and you have a short off season.
And so I encourage everyone, there's always something to work on.
You don't have to wait too long.
(39:41):
But I think the biggest barrier there is if the person has not seen a health professional,
they don't know what they're dealing with.
And so if they don't know what they're dealing with, then they're like, everything is scary.
So they need a health professional to help them navigate that.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, because I was thinking, let's say someone who has an injury, like does that person have
to be like, they're just sitting down and laying down, can't do anything else.
(40:05):
I love how you're saying how you see we cater to what they can still do.
Right?
If someone has like, I don't know, leg injury, they can use their upper body to exercise.
They have an upper body injury, then they can do their lower body.
And I think that's the beauty of physical therapy, right?
It's really the expertise of working around the things that someone can still use to optimize
(40:28):
their health and I guess their physical mobility.
For sure, outside of even just athletes or even athletes themselves and coaches, I'm
sure you hear so many patient and client stories of, oh, I feel like I would not be able to
do this ever again.
I've lost hope that, I bet you probably have athletes like, oh, I've gone through an injury
and I thought I would never become an athlete ever again, right?
(40:50):
As a physical therapist and as a rebuilder of people's capabilities, physical capabilities
to do the things that they were able to do before and I guess more, what would be your
message to someone who has gone through an injury or is experiencing injury and feels
like they have no more hope in, I guess, regaining that physical strength again?
(41:10):
That is a tough part of rehab that not a lot of people talk about.
And so, especially for athletes whose identities are so tied to performance and not a lot of
people talk about it.
I think the biggest thing is knowing that you're not alone.
There's a lot of niche, like the most common injury for an athlete is probably ACLs, especially
(41:31):
for high school females.
And so, there's a lot of people out there nowadays actually posting their journey, writing
blogs about it, putting it on TikTok, putting it on Instagram and they all highlight the
mental aspect of it because it's not easy.
And so, I think reminding them you're not alone, you're not the only one to feel that
way and it's okay to feel that way.
(41:51):
You need to process those emotions but also know that there are standard timelines that
everyone goes through.
Maybe you need to talk to someone, maybe one of my former clients who have gone through
an injury before, maybe that will give you a sense of hope.
And so, I think having a community that believes in you and then having a great medical staff
helping you rehab an injury is probably the best support that you can have.
(42:14):
Not someone who just sees you for 10, 15 minutes and says, okay, you're out the door, do this
sheet of paper at home.
I think there's that emotional support that is so important of physical therapy that is
not talked about.
And so, I would remind them, hey, if you're not receiving that kind of a little bit, maybe
you need to find somewhere else.
Maybe someone else will cater to your needs a little bit better.
(42:34):
And so, what I tell people all the time is it's okay to shop around physical therapists.
Yeah, it's okay.
It's your time and your time is precious.
So, if one physical therapist doesn't work, then that's fine because there's like a hundred
out there.
So, find someone who can meet your goals and you feel comfortable with because quite frankly,
(42:55):
you're going to spend a lot of time with that person.
So, there's got to be some sort of connection some way to just truly feel comfortable and
feel like you're doing something.
I love that.
And speaking of different physical therapists, you know, there's so many branches like as
with any other fields, right?
There's like home health PT and acute care PT or even child PT and the performance PT.
(43:16):
How would you say like performance physical therapy and the physical therapy that HIC
provides is different from the other branches of physical therapy, I would say?
Of course.
I think the most common fields of physical therapy that people know about is orthopedics
and sports.
People don't realize that it's not always just athletes who treat.
(43:36):
There's specialties in geriatrics where they focus on falls and balance for overcoats.
There's pediatrics for if there's a developmental delay, those people work with infants, maybe
even a few months out.
And there's actually even oncology like during the more afterwards when they're cancer free,
there's a lot of PT's who specialize in that, helping them with that.
(43:59):
And there's also neuro neurology, stroke, brain injuries and stuff like that.
And so I think people don't realize it's not always an athlete population.
It's just about how can we make people functional again, stronger so that they can live the
life they want to live.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I mean, I think we've talked a lot about, you know, injury and pain and exercise in
(44:23):
the journey through that.
I want to know personally, what's your favorite exercises that you do as a physical therapist?
Like, you know, sometimes like this question is like, oh, what would I do if I was in the
mind of this person?
What does a doctor of physical therapy like to do exercise?
What's the workouts that you like the most?
Okay, yeah.
(44:43):
Here we go.
Quite frankly, because I'm surrounded by exercise so much, I can't think when I'm on my own
personal time.
Yeah, I can't think.
So what I do is actually sign up for other gyms classes.
So I jump into different classes.
Yeah, different coaches.
I just change it up because I get burnt out too.
(45:06):
I don't think physical therapy is one for seven.
And some days I just need to follow someone and I just want to get a good workout.
So the past year, I've just signed up for different classes, whether it's boxing, cross
fit, HIIT workout, even pickleball.
I just sign up for it and I go.
I'm just trying to get some type of exercise in because that's the only time where I don't
think about business.
(45:27):
I don't think about men.
And so that's my way of de-stressing and also just kind of building a community.
So that's my way of just kind of going out there, seeing what other people do.
Because I acknowledge that I don't know everything.
I think there's other trainers out there who know exponentially just as much just because
(45:47):
they've worked, they've been in the game longer.
And so I enjoy learning to get their brains, but also just having a good time because in
a group class, you cannot slack off.
Yeah.
I super, super agree with that.
You know, we talk a lot about athletes and coaches and performance physical therapy and
all of these injuries.
(46:08):
And when I think of athletes, it's like a lot of hopes and dreams tied to that, right?
Like years and decades of hard work and just training and then one injury can make it or
break it for their lives.
But as a physical therapist, is there an emotional talk to that, to the stories you hear from
(46:31):
these clients?
And I guess, is there a sense of pressure to help these athletes rebuild their life again?
I think maybe you can also attest to this as a professional.
When you first start working, there's an emotional attachment no matter what.
Because you go into this any health professional field because you want to help people.
And so someday you don't bring the work home, but you bring this like mind home.
(46:55):
You're like, man, what is that?
Why is one not working?
Why is this?
Like, how do I help that person better?
It still sticks.
I still have those thoughts when I come home and there is still like an emotional side
in my heart where I'm like, I could be better.
I could have done that better.
Or like, is there something that I'm missing?
Like, how do I, is there a faster way for them?
Am I giving them the best?
(47:17):
And so that has gotten better over the years, but that is still there in the back of my
head of like, I could do better.
I could do better with this.
So my way of improving that has been talking to other mentors, previous mentors and new
mentors and just reaching out just to get second opinions.
And that has been helpful in kind of like regulating some of that emotional pull.
(47:39):
Yeah, for sure.
And I guess it's not necessarily wrong, right?
That attachment to patients and clients and just, you know, helping them, I guess, regain
what they have lost.
And I feel like healthcare is a whole special in the United States.
It's a very tough battle, right?
With so many odds against healthcare professionals.
(48:00):
I guess one of my last questions would be, for sure you love the work that you do and
you do such inspiring and amazing work.
Could this be your message to the next generation of physical therapists who may want to delve
into the specific PT that you do?
I would say one, do well in school, master the basics.
You need to know the basics.
(48:21):
Before you do all the crazy cool stuff you see on the internet, you need to master the
basics.
Two, I think in the business sense, in the entrepreneurial sense, in the creative sense,
physical therapy is still very young.
There's a lot of avenues you can be creative in the physical therapy field.
So you don't have to feel like you have to be this slack, and shirt and tie in the hospital
(48:44):
setting.
There's other ways you can follow.
There's a lot of other PTs creating these different paths.
But also you yourself can also create a path that maybe the next generation can follow.
And so I would say don't limit yourself in a box of a student type professional, but
try to go beyond that.
Find what you like and see how you can mesh physical therapy with that.
(49:06):
I think there is someone out there doing PT for ravers, rave dancing.
And so there's a lot of different fields.
So whatever your passion is or whatever the person you want to treat is, there's all these
newer generation PTs actually going into these different fields.
And so I would say continue to innovate, continue to you yourself inspire the next generation.
(49:29):
That's what I would give to them.
I love that.
Wow.
A raver PT.
I mean, this reminds me of my friend who was a dentist and was giving out mouth washes to
everyone across the music festival.
Well, you know, I learned so much tonight.
I mean, there's many things that we take for granted on a daily basis.
Right?
Sometimes I don't even think about, oh, I can walk, right?
(49:50):
Oh, I can turn the doorknob and walk to the next room I had to go to.
Oh, I can hold my hands steadily while I'm brushing my teeth or, you know, push my legs
out to my pants so I can wear my pants.
I think these are things that are so rudimentary that many times we take advantage of it, take
it for granted and don't really realize how important it is until we lose them.
(50:14):
Right?
Until we lose the capability to do those things.
So it's again an injury or pain or a new diagnosis of like, oh, you can't do this anymore.
And it's just so amazing to have experts and professionals like you who are able to rebuild
this capability so that people can do the things that they used to do and more.
(50:35):
Dr. Harris, it's such an honor to talk to you.
Thank you so, so much for joining me on my podcast.
Of course, thanks for having me, Chris.
Yeah, maybe I'll see you again sometime soon.
I'll see you in LA.
I'll be there in October.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Thank you to everyone who joined.
I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode in the near future.
Thank you, Dr. Harris.
(50:55):
Bye bye.
Hi friends, happy Friday, I hope you're all doing well.
(00:08):
I'm actually in Las Vegas right now, I might think of the desert, the sun, but all I can
think of is the cigar smoke in this hotel lobby.
But anyways, I'm enjoying time with great friends and members of the AAPI community
for the 2024 Uplifted Conference by Asian Hustle Network, or AHN.
For those who may not know, Aechon is a global networking community of Asian entrepreneurs
(00:31):
and creatives, which started out as a Facebook group, has now grown into projects, podcasts,
ventures, and a beautiful community.
In fact, I met a few of our podcast expert guests throughout the seasons through AHN,
including our special guest in today's episode.
But before I introduce our guest, I wanted to say that the Olympics is coming up soon
this summer.
It's going to be held in Paris, and if you don't know by now, it's one of my favorite
(00:54):
cities.
Should I fly out and watch?
I don't watch many sports, because I don't understand them, but I do love watching the
competitions because it just leaves me in awe each time, especially gymnastics.
If you didn't know, I dove into gymnastics and hip hop dancing growing up, not competitively,
but I did enjoy continued taking classes until college.
Now I just feel like my bones will break, and I recently did.
(01:18):
And honestly, it also died before, mostly sprains and tears.
But it makes me think of these Olympians, and even outside the Olympics, just professional
athletes as a whole.
You hear of so many heartbreaking stories of athletes going through injuries that result
in permanent damages.
All their hard work and hopes and dreams fly away with that injury.
You know, according to the American Physical Therapy Association, approximately 2.9 million
(01:44):
annual injuries occur in sports, athletic, and recreational settings, with sprains and
strains accounting for the largest portion of injuries at 41.4 per 1000.
I mean truly, the universal recommendation is that we all engage in physical activity
and exercise due to its evidence-based benefits in our cardiopulmonary health and general
wellness rate.
But how do we do so safely in order to avoid injury?
(02:07):
Specifically, how can professional athletes engage in training that assures safety while
achieving their desired progress?
And outside of injury, how can someone with chronic pain still increase stamina and endurance
during workouts?
And in cases of pain and injury, how can one rehabilitate properly without needing surgery?
Or is surgery the first and only option?
(02:28):
In today's episode, we are joined by a dear friend and just an overall amazing and inspiring
person, Dr. Harris Choe, Doctor of Physical Therapy and Board Certified Orthopedic Clinical
Specialist from California.
He studied Psychobiology in undergrad, fulfilled his doctorate in PT at USC, where he also
completed his residency as an orthopedic clinical specialist.
(02:48):
Dr. Harris is previously an adjunct faculty member at USC for physical therapy, clinical
reasoning, and interventional skills.
As of 2022, he is said to be the founder and owner of HYC Physio, Physical Therapy and
Sports Performance in Santa Monica.
More individualized physical therapy services are provided to professional athletes to rehabilitate
from injury, eliminate chronic pain, and return to high performance.
(03:12):
Are you ready for this marathon?
I can't wait for all of you to meet him.
Hello.
Hey.
Yay.
I'm so excited to have you on tonight.
I'm so honored to have you join me today to talk about so many things.
Thank you so much.
If you could just first please introduce yourself to everybody.
(03:32):
Thank you.
Of course.
My name is Dr. Harris Choe.
I'm a doctorate of physical therapy and I have my own clinic out here in Santa Monica,
California.
I first met Chris earlier this year and it's kind of surreal that kind of connecting the
end of the middle of the year, but I'm super excited to be here.
Yes.
I feel like we saw each other so many times this year in just a span of how many months,
(03:55):
right?
Your story has inspired me so much and I love the work you do and I love the work in the
field of physical therapy.
I pulled my hamstring before because of gymnastics.
I hurt my knee many times before out of different things.
It's always the physical therapist to save the day.
So I'm so excited to talk about not only your field, but your practice.
(04:18):
But I always want to know the reasons why someone went into their field.
Can you tell us more about your journey into physical therapy, how your schooling went
like, which I know is so long, and also your inspirations behind pursuing the field?
Is it a family member, friends, or personal experience?
Of course.
Going into undergraduate school, I actually had no idea what physical therapy was.
(04:40):
I actually have never gone to physical therapy.
If anything, growing up in an Asian household, I've been to a lot of chiropractors just because
a lot of family friends were chiropractors, like punctuaries.
So that's where I started.
Halfway through the year, I had a friend who was pursuing physical therapy and that's when
I was like, oh, maybe that's a career.
I thought I would be in the health field.
(05:01):
I just didn't know where.
So by the end of the four years of undergraduate school, I was really into CrossFit and Olympic
Weightlifting.
If you know a little bit about it, it's very technical.
At a certain time, it goes boom and everyone was talking about it, YouTubers, Instagramers,
people writing articles on it.
So out of pursuit of wanting to be better myself at the sport, I started to really look
(05:25):
into it.
My biggest inspiration was probably a doctor named Quinn Henick.
He specialized in Olympic Weightlifters and I read every article, every YouTube video
on him.
At the end of each article, there's a little bio, right?
And he was like, oh, he played football in college and at some point he pursued a doctor
of physical therapy.
And simple as that, I was amazed by his knowledge of biomechanics, anatomy, physiology, and
(05:50):
me myself wanting to learn more.
I was like, hey, what better way than to go to school myself?
And that's how I ended up pursuing this path of physical therapy.
Yeah, I love it.
You know, you mentioned also like Asian household mostly, you know, about chiropractors and
the chiropractic field and that's so true, right?
And I feel like when it comes to the field of like therapy, especially within the physical
(06:11):
sense, there's kind of a lot of careers that may overlap or may cause confusion for some
people, right?
I think in May, when you saw each other at inter-career, right?
I brought my cousin Kyle, who was an occupational therapy student.
And I guess at the human height of it all, we were talking to some people and one of
the girls was like, to my cousin, she's like, oh, what are you doing?
(06:31):
She's like, oh, I'm an occupational therapy student.
And she was like, oh, you know, I need therapy.
My mental health has been so bad, right?
So I feel like within the field of therapy, there's so many therapists, there's occupational
therapists, physical therapists, speech therapists.
There's sometimes hard to see the delineation between the different fields, right?
As a doctor of physical therapy, how do you explain the premise of the field of physical
(06:54):
therapy of your profession as a physical therapist?
And how does it differ from, I guess, more closely related fields such as OTs and maybe
PMNR doctors, right, and also chiropractors?
Of course.
I think there's little nuances depending on each person's exposure to the field.
Obviously, if someone has been to the chiropractor before, they're used to joint manipulation.
(07:18):
They sit down there, they assess your body, and they head to toe, they crack your body.
And then whether it's heat, electrical stimulation, they end with that.
That's the old age of chiropractor.
And then occupational therapist is, I see the clear delineation when you're in the hospital.
In the hospital, you see an OT when there's more of an upper extremity injury or upper
(07:39):
extremity disability, as opposed to a physical therapist, it's more of the rest of the body,
from the trunk to the legs.
And so that's how I differentiate those two.
In the grand scheme of things, I don't really differentiate the fields too much.
In the end, it's a collaborative effort.
And so whether it's massage therapist, chiropractor, or an OT, we all work together.
And so my main goal is, is the client, is the patient getting the treatment they deserve?
(08:04):
And maybe the OT has better skill sets to help the client.
And if that's the case, then I refer them out to an OT.
And so recognizing that I'm not the end all be all solution, but that there's a wide team
of experts, I think that's a better view than just saying, hey, chiropractor, only way to
go.
PT, only way to go.
It's more of, oh no, how can we mix it together so that the person at the center of it is
(08:28):
receiving the care they deserve?
Yeah, I love that so much.
I feel like, especially in healthcare, right?
There's a term that we always talk about, just insert a similarity seems like it's just
a mesh of all the disciplines together.
Everyone has something to contribute and help in different levels.
Right?
When it comes to, I guess, the work itself, physical therapy, what are the most common,
(08:51):
I guess, conditions or concerns why someone would need a physical therapist?
Of course.
The most common one is right after injury, whether it's ACL tear, meniscus, labral tear,
the hips or the shoulders.
But more often than not, what people don't recognize is people actually come in with
months and years of pain.
So they don't come in right after the pain or something.
(09:12):
They come in after, oh, the ankle sprain turned into a knee pain, a hip pain, and then a low
back pain.
Now it's affecting my everyday life, it's affecting my work.
And then they come in.
Very rarely, unless you're an athlete and you have the access to a medical staff, do
they come in right after injury, fresh off of injury.
The majority of the time it's people who have either injured in months or years ago or older
(09:34):
folks who injured in high school.
And now they're dealing with some of the aftermath of that.
And so I think that's one thing that people don't recognize in terms of the client pool
that we see as physical therapists.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I feel like there's things that I did in the past that are now affecting me
now.
I feel like I was in gymnastics when I was younger.
I feel like I'm reaping all the repercussions in this age.
(09:56):
And I'm like, is it time to see a regular physical therapist?
And I think that's a common question for patients in the general public is when do I start seeing
someone, whatever discipline it may be.
If, let's say, someone is, oh, I have this pain.
Do I see this type of doctor, this type of doctor, this type of doctor?
(10:17):
When it comes to injury, right, and being a physical therapist, where does someone make
that decision of like, when is the time someone considers surgery or physical therapy or,
oh, let's do physical therapy first and then maybe we'll need surgery?
Of course.
I think that that's the biggest question with a lot of people.
It's whether they go with surgery or they go conservative, whether conservative is physical
(10:39):
therapy, PMR docs, ERP, cortisone and whatnot.
A lot more research is coming out nowadays where they see no significant difference between
surgery and a conservative approach.
Not all conditions, but more and more research is coming out.
And of course, it's going to take a few years before that's implemented into physical practice.
(10:59):
But usually a lot of doctors, especially on the West side, have geared towards being proactive
towards conservative approach.
And so they say, hey, why don't you go see a physical therapist?
Why don't you get a cortisone shot or a PRP, something else, really give a good go at it
and then after a few months, if it doesn't change at all, your pain isn't changing and
in fact is getting worse, then we can dive deeper into it.
(11:22):
And so that's a positive trend that I've seen in the medical field, which I'm super thankful
for because I think not everyone needs surgery, quite honestly.
So I'm glad the direction that we're going with the newer docs and the younger medical
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There's many times in the hospital too when we have patients and we'll talk amongst each
other and be like, do they really need surgery?
Can we do a more conservative approach first?
And I think it's so great that now in the times of, I guess, the internet and especially
(15:07):
in social media, right, we see a meshing of so much information.
And what we've been seeing recently is like a trend of mixing, I guess, Western and Eastern
medicine and practices together, right, where I think we're starting to come to this, I
guess, all these believe that the body can heal itself.
We just have to support in some way, right, to reach that point.
(15:29):
And that's what I've seen with my physical therapist, right, where it was like, you know,
your body will take time to heal.
Just like, you get a cut, it will also heal.
And you get this, it will also heal.
And I've seen this approach so many times now.
And I think it's such a beautiful thing, right?
It's really relying on your body and the things that we can do and with professionals like
you.
(15:50):
And I guess this is why you also open up your own practice, right, HIC?
Can you tell us some more about when you started your practice and I guess what's your mission
behind it?
I actually started it during the pandemic.
That's why I take the name.
So at the time, I just graduated from my Ortega residency and I started it.
But I dealt with a huge imposter syndrome, absolutely the worst case of imposter syndrome.
(16:16):
I was questioning everything I was doing.
I was questioning whether I'll be able to help people, whether I was doing the right
thing.
And so because of that, I joined another practice that had a similar mission as myself, which
was how can we eliminate the fillers?
How can we make the one hour session absolutely beneficial?
Every session is used to empower, to educate and to really make a change on the person.
(16:39):
And so I learned for a year at a different practice.
And from there, I learned the business model.
I learned more on clinical practice.
And through that, I was able to, at the end of last year, start off my own practice at
Santa Monica.
And so during that time, I, since the end of last year to now, I've been investing into
the community, reaching out to athletes, working with different coaches, different sports and
(17:02):
all that.
And so it's been very positive.
My ultimate goal is to be the resource in Santa Monica, in West LA.
I want to be the guy where they're like, oh, I don't really know what's happening.
I need some clarity or this pain is not going away.
I want to be that guy.
I want to be the guy to be like that hope, to be that light for a person who's been having
painful while.
(17:23):
And so that was my primary goal is quite honestly, I'm pretty sure you see it too.
The standard of health care all across the US is quite frankly, not that high.
Everyone's burnt out.
The quality of care given by people is very low.
And so my goal is to make that standard higher so that when my clients or people that know
me go somewhere else, they're like, oh, why is this like this?
(17:45):
Wow, it should be at a different level.
And so my goal is to raise the bar in that way.
Yeah, I love that so much.
I agree with you.
I feel like health care in general, the United States, when it comes to standards and quality,
I mean, also like what do we do when the workers are burnt out?
Right?
What do you do when the access keeps getting thinner and thinner?
Right.
And so it's important to have these programs and places and facilities like yours, right?
(18:10):
Where we can also bridge that gap and that access and make it more approachable to everyone,
especially in the community of Santa Monica, right?
And I know that the choice is approach is very individualized, as says in the website,
right?
I guess what individualized, I get the sense of the word individual, right?
Like we have so many different people with so many different concerns coming into your
practice with different needs and like, oh, Dr. Harris, this is what I want to achieve.
(18:32):
This is what I want to attain.
This is what I want to fix, right?
Whether it be pain or working through mobility throughout injury and stuff like that.
I guess I wanted to break it down to very daily matter.
What is the bread and butter of HYC?
Like, what would you say are the most common concerns and the reasons why people go or
you see in your practice?
This is what I call an avatar.
(18:54):
The person that I want to walk to my clinic, the person that I see often is someone who
has been to different health professionals, whether it's another PT, a chiropractor, or
they've even gone and MRI shots.
And so a lot of these people have been through the wringer, have been through the medical
system.
They've actually Googled the hell out of their injury and they know possibly every article
out there.
(19:15):
But yet they're still in pain.
You're not getting results.
So those are the types of people that I see.
And so I don't have like a magic sauce in that.
I don't like having a machine.
I don't rub my hands with something.
It's simply listening to the story.
I believe if the client is probably the best historian of their pain.
And there's a lot of things, whether it's time constraints or the quality of service,
(19:38):
where a lot of the story doesn't get hurt, gets butchered.
So the moment that a client comes in, they say, oh, I have knee pain from running.
The doctor goes, oh, stop running.
Or oh, let's get a shot.
Oh, let's put a brace on it.
And so there's like these standards of care that are really outdated, but people are still
giving them out like sheets of paper.
And so my goal is listening to their story and what are we missing here?
(20:00):
Like they've probably received every red laser therapy out there in West LA, but what are
they missing?
They're probably missing something else.
It's not the technology.
It's not anything else.
It's having a provider who listens.
And so my goal is to listen to their story.
How can we make that story fit into physical therapy so that we can reach their goals?
And so I think that's what the bread and butter of HIC Physio is.
(20:22):
Yeah, I love that.
You know, when I was first starting on the hospital, one of the PT's told me, well, they
were helping me get the patient out of bed who had orthostatic hypotension and now guiding
me.
They were like, when you listen to a patient expressing their pain, when someone's complaining
of physical pain, it's always double.
It's that physical pain and also the emotional toll that that pain imbues.
(20:45):
I think aside from, oh, why am I feeling this way?
When you're in pain, you ask, oh, why am I the one feeling this?
What did they do to make this happen?
Or what could I have avoided to not have this pain?
And when you're in pain, it's like, that's all you can think about.
And there's so many limitations when you feel like, oh, I can't move this extremity or whatnot.
(21:06):
And you've said that, I guess, you're putting better patients who have gone through the
wringer and have tried several things, have gone through so many providers.
When it comes to this physical pain, how would your approach be different from all of the
other wringers that have been through it before?
I think it's realizing that it's not a do this and don't do this and don't do that.
(21:27):
I think a large chunk of what's missing is it's not the technology, it's not the exercises,
it's not the fancy app that shows you how many sets of reps, but it's the education.
The person wants to know, what is it?
How do I get rid of it?
And how do I prevent it from getting back?
And as probably you know is, you could probably tell a patient one thing one day, two days
(21:50):
down, you ask them again, they don't remember it.
Unless they're very in tune with the medical field and they understand the terminology,
a lot of people don't remember certain things because they got the rest of life, they got
kids, they got families, they got responsibilities.
And so the goal is how can we educate them so that it sticks?
Is the delivery different?
We have to draw something on a board.
(22:11):
Are they visual learners?
Do I have to keep repeating it?
Do I have to need a little push, like a friendly push up, hey, like, here's a friendly reminder
of what we need to do, this is what it is.
And so I think that's what makes the biggest difference is how does the patient best learn?
Because if they don't learn, they're not going to help.
The way I teach you will be different from the person right next door.
(22:34):
So the goal is how can we empower them in the language that they understand so that
they get it and they feel motivated to buy into their plan.
Yeah, super agree that education and empowerment is so important, right?
Like you said earlier, most times if someone's in pain, the doctor will be like, oh, then
don't do that.
All right.
And I feel like it's just a bandaid to the actual injury that happened, right?
(22:57):
The patient leaves the clinic or the hospital not knowing why they're having the pain and
what they can do about it.
I guess in a very Westernized healthcare as well, it's like pop the pills, get the injections,
right?
But they don't have that foundational, oh, this is the things that I can do, right?
There's no gentle reminder and stuff like that.
And when it comes to education, you do a lot of education when it comes to fitness and
(23:22):
exercise online and your platform, right?
And you also mentioned that you work with a lot of athletes and coaches as well.
And I know that you were previously a performance physical therapist where you worked with high
school athletes, right?
You know that you worked with so many athletes who I would think would be well versed in
exercises and different workouts.
I'm sure mistakes still happen or I guess they come in with misconceptions when it comes
(23:46):
to exercises, right?
Things that they think were correct, whether they're form or they're technique.
I guess what would be the most common mistakes when it comes to workouts or exercise or I
guess modalities to pain that you have seen your clients come in with that if these athletes
get it wrong, definitely the general public also got it wrong as well.
(24:07):
Yeah, I think just like you said before, there's a lot of information on the internet.
And so there's a lot of people who are misinformed.
And so there's no way for them to find out what's good or bad because the misinformation
of fortunately is very popular.
So that's what gets pushed in the algorithm.
That's what gets pushed in the advertisement.
That's what gets pushed on all these acts.
(24:28):
And so fighting against that is truly uphill battle.
So there just needs to be more professionals who are preaching the right stuff.
And so what happens with a lot of athletes probably is they do too much to assume whether
it's high school athlete, it's an ego thing.
They go to their gym and then the buddy next to them is like, oh, I'm going to squat this
(24:49):
much and they're like, oh, I'm going to squat this much.
And that's where injuries happen.
Or it's a professional athlete who is already really strong, really fast.
So whatever you give them, they will look good doing it.
But whether they're utilizing the right muscles or doing it correctly is probably the bigger
question.
The execution is a question, not the selection of the exercise.
(25:09):
And so finding out their baseline and trying to educate them, hey, like, you're still going
to get faster with this lighter load.
You're still going to get stronger.
You're still going to maximize the benefits.
Don't have to load up the bar.
You don't have to take the biggest weight in the room.
You will still be the best athlete you can be with lighter weight, proper execution.
(25:30):
So that's probably what I try to preach the most with a lot of athletes.
In fact, some of them are like, hey, like you're already doing so much during season.
You're already lifting a lot.
Why don't we do some other stuff?
Why don't we do some body weight stuff?
Why don't we do something different?
Because my goal is not to add on to the pounds that your body is already getting.
My goal is what is the problem?
What are they not getting?
(25:51):
What stimulus are they not getting?
And then giving them that.
Not just adding the same thing that all the other coaches are adding on to these athletes.
So that's the primary goal.
Yeah, I love that.
You talk about like really extending someone's capabilities to a point that it can cause
injury, right?
Well, a question I'm very curious about.
When I used to take some gymnastics classes, especially learning like, I guess, more of
(26:15):
the flexibility and the flexions and the extensions.
I remember the coach would always be like, oh, if it hurts, that means you're getting
there.
You're getting close to whatever that you want to achieve, especially for the split.
I was like, I feel like I'm going to tear every muscle in my hands.
Oh, if you're feeling pain, that means it's okay.
Well, as a doctor of physical therapy, so obviously have so much education and training
(26:40):
when it comes to the body and pain and exercise and mobility.
When is the pain during exercise and workouts, how do you deal with pain?
Like obviously not pain that someone came in with, but pain during exercise.
Is this a sign of progression or is this a sign to stop the exercise?
(27:01):
When is the time where it's like, oh, you know, just lactic acid working versus like,
oh, you're going to sprain or tear something.
Yeah.
That's probably a question I get a lot from athletes, people who are growing up doing
athletics.
I think the old saying is no pain no gain.
There's a time and place for it.
So depending on what is causing the pain, what is causing your, like whether it's a muscle,
(27:25):
tendon, nerve, whatever it is, that will differentiate whether you can push you the pain a little
bit or the pain is okay.
For the general public to find out what that thing is, that's hard.
So that's why I always say go get assessed because sometimes pushing past that may be
good if it doesn't cause injury, that's great.
I'm so happy.
But if it does, then we want to avoid that.
(27:47):
If what if.
And so probably want to get assessed by a health professional before you push through
that because if you have tendonitis issues, then you do want to load it and it won't always
be pain free.
But if it's something structural and something that's probably not good for you, that's probably
not a good thing to push past those limits.
But unfortunately, there's just no way for you to find out unless you get looked by a
(28:08):
professional.
So that's what I recommend.
Get assessed, don't guess.
Yeah.
And I guess when you're talking about limits, it also kind of brings me the question of
mind of I guess limitations people place on themselves when it comes to I guess exercising
or working out, even going to the physical therapist and doing their sessions.
From what I remember from my physical therapy sessions, especially coming out of injury,
(28:32):
I think it's talked about is usually going back to the stamina that you had or the endurance
that you had before.
I guess reclaiming what was lost because of the injury.
I'm not trying to be a world star Olympic athlete.
And maybe many people in the room are not.
For the general public, can we really train stamina and endurance, especially I know you
(28:56):
see a lot of athletes, when it comes to limitations, is there a limit to what one's endurance
or I guess physical exercise goals may be?
I think there are truly physical limits that you can be, but I think the general public
doesn't come even close.
So if you're a professional athlete, then you probably want to get monitored, your VSU
(29:17):
max, your heart rate and all that.
For the general public, I think the majority of the general public doesn't get enough
physical activity.
And so I know the World Health Organization released some numbers in 2022, I believe.
And so they recommended actually, I'm going to butcher this a little bit, but if you can
reference it maybe later, it's 150 to 300 minutes of moderate intensity aerobic activity
(29:42):
a week for anyone older than 18.
And then including two days a week or more of strength training where you hit all the
muscle groups.
So that's what they found to be beneficial to help not just the stamina and aesthetics,
but actually to improve your health, to reduce risk of lung disease, cardiovascular, diabetes
(30:02):
and all that stuff.
And so I think rather than stamina, unless you're an elite athlete getting paid to do
it, the majority of the public is more of how can we be healthy?
So as we get older, we're able to walk up and down the stairs without pain and without
huffing and puffing.
Or when you get a kid, you're able to run around with a kid without feeling like your
back is about to break.
(30:23):
I think those are greater goals for the general public than, oh, let me maximize my stamina.
Yeah, I think there's different priorities here.
Hi friends, Wickeddendem here, just in reference to what Dr. Harris was just talking about
regarding the World Health Organization physical activity recommendations from 2022, which
he did not butcher at all, by the way.
Here are the actual fact sheet details from the organization.
(30:45):
The WHO placed the recommendations by age group from infants to adults, and even those
with chronic conditions, pregnant and postpartum, and those with disability.
But for the sake of the majority of our podcast audience demographic, I'll be sharing the
recommendations for adults aged 18 to 64 years old.
According to the WHO, in a 24 hour day, adults aged 18 to 64 should engage in at least 150
(31:09):
to 300 minutes of moderate intensity aerobic physical activity, or at least 75 to 150 minutes
of vigorous intensity aerobic physical activity.
They should also do muscle strengthening activities at a moderate or greater intensity that involve
all major muscle groups on two or more days a week.
Why?
The WHO states that regular physical activity can improve muscular and cardiorespiratory
(31:33):
fitness, improve bone and functional health, reduce the risk of hypertension, coronary
disease, stroke, diabetes, various types of cancer including breast cancer and colon cancer,
and depression.
It reduces the risk of falls as well as hip and vertebral fractures, and help maintain
healthy body weight, which, as we know, can also influence the previously mentioned comorbidities.
(31:53):
Okay, let's go back to the episode.
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I think when it comes to priorities, right?
(35:37):
I mean, we all heard of New Year's resolution of I'm going to start working out.
I'm guilty of that.
I'm going to start exercising, stretching or whatnot.
And I think the first block today is always like, oh, how do I start doing that?
Right?
How do you, I guess, encourage your new clients as their physical therapist into this journey
(36:01):
of, I guess, a health journey, right?
Of going to exercise or even someone who's just coming out of injury.
How do you encourage someone with that fear of like, oh, I don't know how to start this
journey?
My favorite term is what is the lowest hanging through?
What is the easiest thing they can do?
They don't have to buy it.
It's free and they can easily incorporate into their life.
(36:23):
The most common thing is walking, whether it's with a dog or you have kids going to
a playground.
And so I tell people, hey, why don't you start walking?
It doesn't always have to be going to the gym or signing up for classes or anything
like that.
I think it's, oh, how can we just incorporate something that lets me just enjoy?
If it's hiking, go hiking.
If it's playing pickleball or tennis with your friends, why don't you try that out a
(36:46):
little bit?
Why don't you go out and do it a little bit?
Because I think getting out and doing something that you enjoy and can easily access is far
greater than telling you, hey, you need to go sign up for this program, this diet program,
this exercise program, and then you need to drop this to buy this and this.
And there's just too many obstacles.
The average person will not go through that many obstacles to work out.
(37:09):
They're probably going to sit, watch Netflix, or do something else.
And so the goal is what fits into their lifestyle, what do they enjoy, and what is truly accessible
to them.
Yeah.
And I guess when it comes to a lot of those barriers to that working out, definitely there's
a lot of mental barriers as well.
I guess that mindset of, well, I want to start doing this or whatnot.
(37:31):
But there's also actual tangible physical possible limitations to working out or exercising
or attaining that physical health that someone wants.
And I think a big part of that is injury, right?
Whether it's someone who got into a motor vehicle accident and is coming back to exercising
(37:52):
or something so chronic like lower back pain, which a lot of my patients have, and I think
it's got spread to me as well.
Even acute injuries, for like a knee sprain or ankle sprain or whatnot.
That can be a limitation for many people, right?
Outside of just usual daily life, they can't sit down, they can't stand up, they can't
(38:17):
lay down a certain way to sleep.
But in the topic of working out, should injury be a barrier to someone to start that journey
of working out?
Like how do you work on mobility despite both chronic and acute injury?
That's a lot there.
(38:37):
I think there's always something to work on.
So what I've divided into is there's, you can divide it into upper body, core, lower
body, just to be as simple as possible.
You could divide it into cardio, upper body strength, hypertrophy, lower body strength,
hypertrophy.
There's always something to work on.
(38:57):
So if there was someone like, someone just came out of surgery from ankle injury and
they're in a boot, they can't really do any leg exercises.
You can still work on cardio with, I don't know if you've seen like a skiing machine
where you row it or a rower.
You can really have to use too much of the ankle or you could do just the arm bike.
And so you make it intense enough so that you keep the cardiovascular system up.
(39:20):
And you could even still work on the core and the upper body.
Because if you wait for the ankle injury or that one injury to heal, you're wasting so
much time, especially as someone who wants to be healthy and someone who, especially
if you're trying to return to sports and you have a short off season.
And so I encourage everyone, there's always something to work on.
You don't have to wait too long.
(39:41):
But I think the biggest barrier there is if the person has not seen a health professional,
they don't know what they're dealing with.
And so if they don't know what they're dealing with, then they're like, everything is scary.
So they need a health professional to help them navigate that.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, because I was thinking, let's say someone who has an injury, like does that person have
to be like, they're just sitting down and laying down, can't do anything else.
(40:05):
I love how you're saying how you see we cater to what they can still do.
Right?
If someone has like, I don't know, leg injury, they can use their upper body to exercise.
They have an upper body injury, then they can do their lower body.
And I think that's the beauty of physical therapy, right?
It's really the expertise of working around the things that someone can still use to optimize
(40:28):
their health and I guess their physical mobility.
For sure, outside of even just athletes or even athletes themselves and coaches, I'm
sure you hear so many patient and client stories of, oh, I feel like I would not be able to
do this ever again.
I've lost hope that, I bet you probably have athletes like, oh, I've gone through an injury
and I thought I would never become an athlete ever again, right?
(40:50):
As a physical therapist and as a rebuilder of people's capabilities, physical capabilities
to do the things that they were able to do before and I guess more, what would be your
message to someone who has gone through an injury or is experiencing injury and feels
like they have no more hope in, I guess, regaining that physical strength again?
(41:10):
That is a tough part of rehab that not a lot of people talk about.
And so, especially for athletes whose identities are so tied to performance and not a lot of
people talk about it.
I think the biggest thing is knowing that you're not alone.
There's a lot of niche, like the most common injury for an athlete is probably ACLs, especially
(41:31):
for high school females.
And so, there's a lot of people out there nowadays actually posting their journey, writing
blogs about it, putting it on TikTok, putting it on Instagram and they all highlight the
mental aspect of it because it's not easy.
And so, I think reminding them you're not alone, you're not the only one to feel that
way and it's okay to feel that way.
(41:51):
You need to process those emotions but also know that there are standard timelines that
everyone goes through.
Maybe you need to talk to someone, maybe one of my former clients who have gone through
an injury before, maybe that will give you a sense of hope.
And so, I think having a community that believes in you and then having a great medical staff
helping you rehab an injury is probably the best support that you can have.
(42:14):
Not someone who just sees you for 10, 15 minutes and says, okay, you're out the door, do this
sheet of paper at home.
I think there's that emotional support that is so important of physical therapy that is
not talked about.
And so, I would remind them, hey, if you're not receiving that kind of a little bit, maybe
you need to find somewhere else.
Maybe someone else will cater to your needs a little bit better.
(42:34):
And so, what I tell people all the time is it's okay to shop around physical therapists.
Yeah, it's okay.
It's your time and your time is precious.
So, if one physical therapist doesn't work, then that's fine because there's like a hundred
out there.
So, find someone who can meet your goals and you feel comfortable with because quite frankly,
(42:55):
you're going to spend a lot of time with that person.
So, there's got to be some sort of connection some way to just truly feel comfortable and
feel like you're doing something.
I love that.
And speaking of different physical therapists, you know, there's so many branches like as
with any other fields, right?
There's like home health PT and acute care PT or even child PT and the performance PT.
(43:16):
How would you say like performance physical therapy and the physical therapy that HIC
provides is different from the other branches of physical therapy, I would say?
Of course.
I think the most common fields of physical therapy that people know about is orthopedics
and sports.
People don't realize that it's not always just athletes who treat.
(43:36):
There's specialties in geriatrics where they focus on falls and balance for overcoats.
There's pediatrics for if there's a developmental delay, those people work with infants, maybe
even a few months out.
And there's actually even oncology like during the more afterwards when they're cancer free,
there's a lot of PT's who specialize in that, helping them with that.
(43:59):
And there's also neuro neurology, stroke, brain injuries and stuff like that.
And so I think people don't realize it's not always an athlete population.
It's just about how can we make people functional again, stronger so that they can live the
life they want to live.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I mean, I think we've talked a lot about, you know, injury and pain and exercise in
(44:23):
the journey through that.
I want to know personally, what's your favorite exercises that you do as a physical therapist?
Like, you know, sometimes like this question is like, oh, what would I do if I was in the
mind of this person?
What does a doctor of physical therapy like to do exercise?
What's the workouts that you like the most?
Okay, yeah.
(44:43):
Here we go.
Quite frankly, because I'm surrounded by exercise so much, I can't think when I'm on my own
personal time.
Yeah, I can't think.
So what I do is actually sign up for other gyms classes.
So I jump into different classes.
Yeah, different coaches.
I just change it up because I get burnt out too.
(45:06):
I don't think physical therapy is one for seven.
And some days I just need to follow someone and I just want to get a good workout.
So the past year, I've just signed up for different classes, whether it's boxing, cross
fit, HIIT workout, even pickleball.
I just sign up for it and I go.
I'm just trying to get some type of exercise in because that's the only time where I don't
think about business.
(45:27):
I don't think about men.
And so that's my way of de-stressing and also just kind of building a community.
So that's my way of just kind of going out there, seeing what other people do.
Because I acknowledge that I don't know everything.
I think there's other trainers out there who know exponentially just as much just because
(45:47):
they've worked, they've been in the game longer.
And so I enjoy learning to get their brains, but also just having a good time because in
a group class, you cannot slack off.
Yeah.
I super, super agree with that.
You know, we talk a lot about athletes and coaches and performance physical therapy and
all of these injuries.
(46:08):
And when I think of athletes, it's like a lot of hopes and dreams tied to that, right?
Like years and decades of hard work and just training and then one injury can make it or
break it for their lives.
But as a physical therapist, is there an emotional talk to that, to the stories you hear from
(46:31):
these clients?
And I guess, is there a sense of pressure to help these athletes rebuild their life again?
I think maybe you can also attest to this as a professional.
When you first start working, there's an emotional attachment no matter what.
Because you go into this any health professional field because you want to help people.
And so someday you don't bring the work home, but you bring this like mind home.
(46:55):
You're like, man, what is that?
Why is one not working?
Why is this?
Like, how do I help that person better?
It still sticks.
I still have those thoughts when I come home and there is still like an emotional side
in my heart where I'm like, I could be better.
I could have done that better.
Or like, is there something that I'm missing?
Like, how do I, is there a faster way for them?
Am I giving them the best?
(47:17):
And so that has gotten better over the years, but that is still there in the back of my
head of like, I could do better.
I could do better with this.
So my way of improving that has been talking to other mentors, previous mentors and new
mentors and just reaching out just to get second opinions.
And that has been helpful in kind of like regulating some of that emotional pull.
(47:39):
Yeah, for sure.
And I guess it's not necessarily wrong, right?
That attachment to patients and clients and just, you know, helping them, I guess, regain
what they have lost.
And I feel like healthcare is a whole special in the United States.
It's a very tough battle, right?
With so many odds against healthcare professionals.
(48:00):
I guess one of my last questions would be, for sure you love the work that you do and
you do such inspiring and amazing work.
Could this be your message to the next generation of physical therapists who may want to delve
into the specific PT that you do?
I would say one, do well in school, master the basics.
You need to know the basics.
(48:21):
Before you do all the crazy cool stuff you see on the internet, you need to master the
basics.
Two, I think in the business sense, in the entrepreneurial sense, in the creative sense,
physical therapy is still very young.
There's a lot of avenues you can be creative in the physical therapy field.
So you don't have to feel like you have to be this slack, and shirt and tie in the hospital
(48:44):
setting.
There's other ways you can follow.
There's a lot of other PTs creating these different paths.
But also you yourself can also create a path that maybe the next generation can follow.
And so I would say don't limit yourself in a box of a student type professional, but
try to go beyond that.
Find what you like and see how you can mesh physical therapy with that.
(49:06):
I think there is someone out there doing PT for ravers, rave dancing.
And so there's a lot of different fields.
So whatever your passion is or whatever the person you want to treat is, there's all these
newer generation PTs actually going into these different fields.
And so I would say continue to innovate, continue to you yourself inspire the next generation.
(49:29):
That's what I would give to them.
I love that.
Wow.
A raver PT.
I mean, this reminds me of my friend who was a dentist and was giving out mouth washes to
everyone across the music festival.
Well, you know, I learned so much tonight.
I mean, there's many things that we take for granted on a daily basis.
Right?
Sometimes I don't even think about, oh, I can walk, right?
(49:50):
Oh, I can turn the doorknob and walk to the next room I had to go to.
Oh, I can hold my hands steadily while I'm brushing my teeth or, you know, push my legs
out to my pants so I can wear my pants.
I think these are things that are so rudimentary that many times we take advantage of it, take
it for granted and don't really realize how important it is until we lose them.
(50:14):
Right?
Until we lose the capability to do those things.
So it's again an injury or pain or a new diagnosis of like, oh, you can't do this anymore.
And it's just so amazing to have experts and professionals like you who are able to rebuild
this capability so that people can do the things that they used to do and more.
(50:35):
Dr. Harris, it's such an honor to talk to you.
Thank you so, so much for joining me on my podcast.
Of course, thanks for having me, Chris.
Yeah, maybe I'll see you again sometime soon.
I'll see you in LA.
I'll be there in October.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
Thank you to everyone who joined.
I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode in the near future.
Thank you, Dr. Harris.
(50:55):
Bye bye.
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