February 9, 2024 • 49 mins
Over the past few years, the health and wellness space has been flooded with the concept of the "gut microbiome," or the ecosystem of microorganisms in our stomachs. Probiotics, which have become prominent on social media, are said to strengthen this bacterial community and can result in benefits like improved nutrient absorption, skin inflammation, and even mental acuity. However, this connection of the gut to the mental sphere has actually been shown in research as the "gut-brain axis" (GBA). In fact, according to a 2015 journal from the Annals of Gastroenterology, a bidirectional relationship between our gut and our brain has been shown to influence our responses to anxiety, stress, and even functions of memory through interactions with the central nervous system.
We are joined today by behavioral neuroscientist, toxicologist, neuropharmacologist, and international fashion model Dr. Aya Osman. She received her BSc in Biomedical Sciences with Honors from the University of London, MSc in Toxicology focusing on the role of adenosine and glutamate receptors in cocaine addiction from the University of Surrey, and PhD in Toxicology and Neuropharmacology from the University of Surrey, where she investigated the development of brain opioid and oxytocin receptor systems in response to early life dietary manipulation. She then worked as a Toxicologist at the Centre for Radiation, Chemical, and Environmental Hazards for the governmental body Public Health England. Dr. Osman completed her postdoctoral research fellowship at the Friedman Brain Institute and the Seaver Autism Center for Research and Treatment at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, where she now serves as an Assistant Professor, focusing on the role of gut microbiome changes in brain development and the pathophysiology of neuropsychiatric disorders.
Livestream Air Date: April 25, 2023
Follow Aya Osman, PhD: Instagram
Follow Friends of Franz Podcast: Website, Instagram, Facebook
Follow Christian Franz Bulacan (Host): Instagram, YouTube
Thankful to the season's brand partners: Covry, House of M Beauty, Nguyen Coffee Supply, V Coterie, Skin By Anthos, Halmi, By Dr Mom, LOUPN, Baisun Candle Co., RĒJINS, Twrl Milk Tea, 1587 Sneakers
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi friends, happy Friday!
(00:07):
Friends of Franz Friday in the house!
How are you doing?
How about me?
I'm doing single.
Thank you for asking.
Valentine's Day is around the quarter and I could not be more bitter.
I'm joking.
But honestly though, I'm curious to know what you're all getting your boyfriend or girlfriend
or spouse or partner or whatever you call your special someone this upcoming day of
(00:29):
hearts.
All you blessed people.
Are there roses involved or chocolates or a good dinner?
The another famous saying, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Well for our podcast episode today, we'll take quite a spin on that saying instead of
the heart because mine is cold and lonely.
We'll instead be talking about the brain.
(00:52):
The way to a man's brain is through his stomach.
Say what?
As you know, this is a science and medicine podcast.
So we're keeping evidence based and researched back here.
The heart plays the brain.
The brain and the stomach in unison connection.
You got that right.
If you're on social media, especially TikTok, for sure you have heard this two terms by
(01:16):
now.
Probiotics and the gut microbiome or gut microbiota.
These pushed for products and concepts of an ecosystem of bacteria and microorganisms
in our stomach or gut have been blooming online in recent years.
And probiotics which are said to support this environment in turn of health benefits like
improved nutrient absorption, skin inflammation and even mental acuity have been lauded by
(01:40):
influencers and experts alike.
This is said to be due to our enteric nervous system, the largest and most complex unit
of the peripheral nervous system.
Yes, a little brain in our gut that facilitates the many functions of our gastrointestinal
tract.
Now, where does our actual brain come into play?
The gut brain axis or GBA.
(02:00):
In recent years of research and even simple discourse online, there has been talks of
the communication between our gut's enteric nervous system and our central nervous system
found in our head, the brain.
The gut brain axis is a bidirectional communication between these two nervous systems.
Because the gut can influence the brain and the brain can influence the gut, it is believed
(02:21):
that what and how we eat can influence our behavior and emotions.
Likewise, some chaos in our brain like times of stress and overwhelming emotions can affect
our gut microbiome and the functions of our stomach, like its emptying times, mucosal
immune response, acid secretion and so forth.
But how actually true is all of this?
(02:41):
Does our gut health and in turn our diets affect the way our brains develop or how we
behave?
What does the scientists of the nervous system actually say?
I am so honored to be joined today by an expert to talk all about this.
We are joined today by behavioral neuroscientist, toxicologist, neuropharmacologist and international
fashion model Dr. Aya Osman.
(03:02):
She received her bachelor's in biomedical sciences with honors from the University of
London, master's in toxicology focusing on the role of adenosine and glutamate receptors
in cocaine addiction from the University of Surrey, where she also received her PhD in
toxicology and neuropharmacology, where she investigated the development of brain opioid
and oxytocin receptor systems in response to early life dietary manipulation.
(03:26):
She then worked as a toxicologist at the Center for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental
Hazards for the governmental body Public Health England.
Dr. Osman completed her postdoctoral research fellowship at the Friedman Brain Institute
in the Seaver Autism Center for Research and Treatment at Icahn School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, here in New York City, where she now serves as an assistant professor,
(03:47):
focusing on the role of gut microbiome changes in brain development and the pathophysiology
of neuropsychiatric disorders.
I mean, you have the perfect person to talk all about this.
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
You're in for a wild ride today.
I have a gut feeling.
Have a good day.
Hello!
Thank you so much for joining me tonight.
(04:07):
Awesome, thank you for having me.
Of course, are you a student?
I am.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
Are you in New York City as well?
Yes, I am.
Are you?
Yes.
I am so happy that the sun is setting later and later into the day and we're having more
sunlight.
(04:27):
Where in New York are you?
I'm in Brooklyn right now.
How are you?
Brooklyn is where my heart lives.
Yes it is.
Well again, thank you so much for being with me tonight.
You know, we've been planning this for quite a while now and today is the perfect day for
us to finally have this.
We have so many things to talk about, about science and also other things.
(04:50):
If you could just first please introduce yourself to everybody.
Yes, thank you for having me again.
You know, you've had some wonderful guests on your platform so I'm honored to be one
of them.
My name is Aya Osman and I'm a researcher and neuroscientist in New York and I will
get into all of our research and stuff.
Originally, I'm from the UK but originally before that my parents are from Africa and
(05:15):
as many of you might know or have heard in the news at the moment, Sudan's undergoing
a terrible time at the moment with fighting between two army leaders.
So they used to be part of the same army and amongst each other for rule over the land.
But you know, it's kind of like the war has now reached the capital Khartoum and it's
kind of like seeing like LA or London or New York.
(05:37):
You know, it's just so to see somewhere that's so familiar and usually bustling, now kind
of scattered with dead bodies and rockets and whatnot.
Yep, just wanted to say if everyone is listening, you know, just like follow, keep eyes on the
matter if there's any links for donations and things like that.
Yeah, definitely.
And thank you for sharing this.
Definitely such a pressing issue.
(05:58):
I know that the whole conflict started like on April 15 and since then it's like so many
lives have been lost.
I know hospital and health centers have been seized and I think fear for biological warfare
because of a lab was seized, right, and just so many heartbreaking things going on and
super agree with raising awareness.
(06:18):
So thank you so much for sharing that.
I'll talk about something around like 400 people have lost their lives currently and
over 3000 injured.
So yeah, thank you for highlighting those facts.
I mean, as a side turn to that, I think what went on today, especially, I think it's very
close to what you have been doing in the past too.
I mean, I know that you're doing your science now, but I know you also have gotten into
(06:43):
toxicology as well.
Can you just give us a timeline and this journey of how you reached to where you are now doing
all this amazing research?
I have to say you've definitely done your homework.
You have done your MSc in toxicology.
I'll start this by saying that I'm definitely one of those people that didn't have like
a blueprint in mind.
I honestly just followed my instincts and what I enjoyed and what I felt I was good
(07:07):
at.
So my journey into science really began from high school.
Well, you know, it began before that in that my parents, my mother's side of the family
were, you know, multiple PhD holders, philosophers, and none of them really followed that track
in the West.
And so I've always been around people who were like big thinkers and philosophical thinkers.
And then from my dad's side of the family, he's a lawyer, so he's very much evidence
(07:31):
based.
And so I ended up on track.
And so from high school, just noticed I had a talent for science and biology in particular.
And then in the UK, you kind of finished high school, then you have A levels and A levels,
I chose biology, you know, basic science.
And then when it got to university, which is what I think the equivalent of college
here, I chose to do biomedical science because that was more of a broad entry into, I was
(07:56):
going to medicine and you know, there's always pressure from family to go down that route.
So at first, that's really why I did biomedical science thinking I'd go through.
But then really during the biomedical science degrees, when I got introduced to pharmacology
and neuroscience and toxicology, my introduction to neuroscience was through the pharmacology
and toxicology lens, that's drugs and you know, how your body metabolizes, how they
(08:21):
act on the system.
And so I finished my biomedical science degree and realized I loved learning and love studying
and wanted to continue down the pharmacology and toxicology route.
But I didn't do that straight away.
I actually worked like in retail for a while.
I was like a manager for Abercrombie for a while.
And that was a way of like also saving money towards my master.
(08:42):
And then I started my master's in toxicology.
And so yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, people may be watching us be like, what is toxicology?
What is this all about?
You know, the root word in there is toxic.
But as a toxicologist yourself, what is the premise behind this whole field?
So toxicology is really the interaction between hazardous or dangerous substances and living
(09:04):
organisms, right?
So that covers anything from humans to trees and the environment.
And so toxicology in several branches is actually quite a broad discipline because yeah, toxins
or hazardous substances can interact with so much.
And so it really covers, you know, cellular and molecular biology, immunology, pharmacology,
how drugs are broken down, pathology.
(09:27):
And so you have toxicologists that specialize in each of those principles.
And so during my master's, we covered all of that.
But then for my master's research project, I focused on pharmacology aspect and drugs
and how I fertilize drugs.
And I then got into drugs of abuse and how they are toxins to the brain.
If you, you know, cocaine, these are toxins, right?
(09:49):
So that's how I got into drug addiction through the toxicology route.
But before I went on to do my PhD, which delve deeper into all of that, there was a bunch
of toxicology, which is more like the environmental public health aspect of it.
So after my master's again, I told you I didn't have this direct trajectory.
After I finished my master's, I actually worked for about two and a half years for Public
(10:13):
Health England as a desk-based toxicologist.
So what your job there really is all about, you know, you're dealing with governmental
bodies like the environmental agency.
For example, say there's a leak somewhere, a chemical leak, you'd get all that information
and you'd have to do an assessment of what levels are safe from this leak, who needs
to be evacuated, how much level of, you know, is safe for people around that area to be
(10:37):
exposed to.
So it was mainly assessing hazards that came into Public Health England and providing information
in terms of the toxic dose and how to treat it.
But it wasn't a web-based, you know, desk.
Yeah.
I mean, super interesting.
I mean, this whole field and this whole discipline.
And I think it's very relevant to our time now.
(10:57):
I think as people in the world are spending more time on social media, are spending more
time on the internet, that are landing on Google searches or news that's set out in
social media, right?
And I think a word that's commonly seen now online is the word toxic, right?
You see in skincare, like, oh, this is a toxic chemical found in sunscreens.
(11:21):
Oh, this is toxic.
Don't use it.
It's not natural.
It's not this or that.
And to some extent, it may seem like the word toxic and toxicity is overused or not.
And that's what I wanted to ask you as the expert of the field, what is the exact meaning
or what causes something to be toxic?
(11:42):
Is it the substance itself or is the dose the poison?
Exactly.
You hit the nail on the head there.
So the concept of toxicology was actually born by this Renaissance physician called
Persels.
I think he was in his real name.
He gave himself that name.
And he was really the first one to come out and say the toxin is in the dose.
(12:02):
Anything and everything from the nutrients that are good for us to water to cocaine,
all of them are safe up until a certain dose, right?
And beyond that, they become hazardous in that they have off-target negative effects.
And so it was from this, the dose is what makes the poison, that the modern concept
of a threshold, you know, no adverse effect level, which is a threshold that, you know,
(12:27):
everything that's tested from vaccines to everyday shower gels and deodorants all undergo
toxic testing and they're all those at which they are safe, essentially.
Yeah.
Anyone?
It is definitely overused without finding that even drinking water can be toxic.
Definitely.
I have for sure that the term is overused, but I really wanted to also delve into one
(12:51):
of your researches that is very interesting is about cocaine addiction, right?
I know you're talking about like adenosine and glutamate receptors.
I guess for the lay person, what have you seen as a toxicologist and who has studied,
you know, this field of cocaine addiction and illicit drug addiction?
What did they really do to the brain?
(13:11):
I think it's become a culture now as well, right?
In our music festivals and people take it recreationally now as well.
What does science say about these substances?
You know, drugs are wonderful things if we didn't get it.
So the main issue with drugs is addiction because drugs can actually have great benefits
from, you know, reducing pain to alleviate symptoms of depression and so on.
(13:36):
And the fact that they cause addiction, that was what makes them harmful.
And how they do that is all drugs of abuse essentially increase the levels of dopamine,
the neurotransmitter dopamine, in the reward circuit.
So for anything to be classified as potentially abusive or a drug of abuse, it has to act
(13:56):
on the dopamine system reward circuitry.
That's really the main mechanism of, well, each drug has its own mechanism of action.
Pain and methamphetamine, you know, they increase hyperactivity or make people active whereas
opioids and cannabinoids or cannabis, you know, reduce activity.
So all drugs of abuse have their own mechanism of action, but they all converge into this
(14:18):
one thing, which is they increase dopamine and they result in addiction.
And so how they result in addiction is the main study that everyone's focused on because
if you can feel that, that's wonderful.
And so because the reward circuitry is part of the reward circuitry, they're part of the
oldest parts of our brain, they evolved and we needed them because we need our brain to
(14:41):
tell us when something is good for us.
So if you eat something, it tastes good, you're going to want to feel reward so that you keep
eating so you can survive.
Same with socializing, same with sex, same with all these rewarding things.
They all increase dopamine in the brain, but none of them do them to the extent that drugs
of abuse do.
And so drugs of abuse cause dopamine at such high levels, that's how they affect the brain.
(15:06):
And so what happens over time is, you know, drug addiction is kind of defined by the cycle
of first of all, intoxication, the first time you take it, then you start to binge because
it felt good, you keep doing it, then you try to stop and you get withdrawal and then
you get preoccupation and then you read that.
And so the cycle goes over and over again.
And this all comes from this elevated level of dopamine.
(15:29):
And then when that isn't there anymore, when you stop taking the drug, because the dopamine
levels are so low now, the brain is trying to like adjust different parts of your brain
get recruited, like the amygdala, which starts to make you feel anxious and afraid once you've
stopped taking the drug.
The cortex, which is the front part of your brain and kind of controls socializing and
decisions, making decisions, that also gets kind of looped into the addiction cycle.
(15:54):
So when you stop taking the drug, even your prefrontal cortex is now compromised.
And so that's really where you start seeing people get withdrawn because they're not taking
the drug anymore, or they're preoccupied with getting the drug and they're socially withdrawn.
So all in all, in answer to your question, drugs affect our brain all because of this
increase in dopamine that they cause and then the downstream consequences of that sustained
(16:17):
high level.
Ever since I was a child, my inner arms and neck would always suffer from itchiness and
irritation whenever I would sweat.
It can become so debilitating, forcing myself not to scratch my skin and end up with wounds
from prickly heat, especially at night.
Thankfully, I have found relief through Bi-Dr. Mom's soothing beta cream and soothing bed
(16:41):
treatment, which uses barley derived beta-glucan technology to help alleviate eczema, bug bites
and dry itchy irritated skin.
Beta-glucan is a fiber shown in scientific studies to improve skin hydration and healing
and Bi-Dr. Mom's products extract it with a technique that uses air technology, requiring
no chemicals or solvents.
(17:01):
Created by family physician Dr. Stephanie Liu with the help of an allergist and immunologist,
you can now allow your skin to breathe and heal naturally.
Using the code CHRISTIAN10, that's C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-1-0, you can get 10% off your first order on Bi-DrMom.com.
As a healthcare worker, my identity can become so boxed within the pressures and expectations
(17:24):
of my profession that sometimes, I forget who I really am outside the hospital walls.
This is why I find so much power in liberation and self-expression through fashion and accessories,
and Lupin seeks to do the same.
Encouraging self-confidence and creating a safe space to be yourself, Lupin seeks to
share with the world simple and impactful jewelry pieces that can bring confidence effortlessly.
(17:47):
Meaning what goes around comes around, the brand, comprised of third generation jewelers,
holds a mission to brighten the community by promoting positivity and a growth mindset.
Lupin's clean designs are handcrafted in South Korea using 925 sterling silver and
can go with almost any outfit on anyone.
In fact, I wear my pieces on and off shift.
(18:08):
With the code FRANZ, that's F-R-A-N-Z, you can get 15% off your first order on Lupin.com.
Let's bring more luster into the world, together with Lupin.
I remember coming home every day from elementary school and smelling the newly steamed jasmine
rice in the cooker that my grandmother made just in time for dinner.
(18:29):
It reminded me of my first few years living on the farm back home in Asia, sniffing the
rice while overlooking the fields.
Founded in 2020, Bison Candle Co. imports nostalgic and iconic scented soy wax candles
inspired by the Asian scents, flavors, and traditions that founder Brandon Leung grew
up with in his first generation Chinese American household.
(18:52):
Brandon's mission with Bison is to create authentic Asian aromas while rediscovering
his love of his Chinese culture and heritage.
The candles and home fragrances celebrate aromatic eastern flavors and aromas one would
typically find in an Asian kitchen or pantry like Vietnamese coffee, steamed white rice,
and white peach.
Enjoy traditional scents alongside some modern spin-off blends and be taken back into the
(19:15):
beauty of the motherland with the code BISONFRANZ, that's B-A-I-S-U-N-F-R-A-N-Z, for 15% off
your first order at BisonCandleCo.com.
This whole addiction mechanism is such an intricate topic, right?
(19:36):
I know that even if someone who is addicted to an illicit substance already, if they try
in a different environment or location, right?
They will need higher to get the higher that they did before.
It's just so interesting how the brain works in all of this.
And addiction is just one topic when it comes to the brain.
I mean, I'm so scared of neuroscience because it's just so much.
(19:58):
There's so much information that you decided to be an expert in it.
It's exhausting.
You feel like you don't know anything.
But yeah, I just wanted to kind of touch on what you said on there that when you take
a drug in a specific setting, your brain learns to associate that setting with the drug.
And so if you ever stopped taking a drug after a while and you come back to that setting,
(20:23):
you're more likely to relapse.
So that's actually called conditioning and we in the lab when we're testing addiction
in mice because how the mouse is addicted or not.
It's not like a human.
You can't ask.
So we do something called conditioned place preference where it gets a chamber with two
different rooms that look and feel different to the mouse.
(20:44):
And in one chamber, we give it an injection of just saline.
And so now it's this room with feeling not high.
And in a different room for like days, depending on what drug it is, you give it an injection
of your drug of choice.
And you do that over time until the animal learns to condition that room with the and
then on the final day of the test, you put your mouse like kind of in the middle and
(21:06):
you let it choose.
And if it chooses the room that you used to get the drug in, then you know it's addicted.
Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting.
You know, actually, a few episodes ago, I have a live stream with a neurosurgeon and
I was like, what is the most interesting thing that you've seen so far in your like, I think,
four decades of experiences being your surgeon?
(21:26):
And she was like, honestly, it's just that there's something new every day that I find
out about the brain.
And it just reminded me of what you just said where it's like she even said, I think I'm
going to get neurotic during neurology.
Honestly, all jokes aside, like, I know people who have actually left neuroscience because
they found it so difficult studying something that first of all is so difficult and endless,
(21:48):
but also so applicable to everyday life.
So you start over analyzing everything or if you condition and you're studying that condition,
forget it.
You're definitely going to then go.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And then we'll talk about why I also do everything else on the side.
Yeah, definitely.
You know, like, like in our show about a neurosurgeon, it's very mechanical, very physical, very
(22:10):
surgical.
And then you have the whole field of neuroscience.
When you think of neuroscience, all that's coming up in my mind is just like neurons
sending electrical signals to each other, you know, all the action potentials and just
down the line.
As the expert, you are the expert here.
What is the premise of neuroscience?
(22:30):
And I know specifically with the behavioral neuroscience, what differentiates the two?
Neuroscience, like simply put, is the study of the nervous system, right?
And so that's both the brain and the periphery because you have nerves.
And so the main focus of neuroscience is the brain.
(22:50):
And like you said, neurons, the science of neurons, you have over 86 billion neurons
in your brain.
So there's a lot to study there.
So people, you know, the biology of the neurons, some people study the circuits.
So then when you're talking about the brain, there's different, that's more people.
We call those more systems neuroscience because they're looking at it as a whole.
(23:12):
What I'm called is a behavioral neuroscientist because I look at how the science of those
neurons or how those neurons fire and how they work, how that drives behavior, right?
And so I try to map specific circuits in the brain that have anxiety or depression or parts
of addiction.
I don't really do much circuitry.
I'm trying to get more into circuitry.
(23:34):
So how the neuron itself fires or how the biology of that neuron contributes to a behavior.
And you know, a lot of your research also talks about this thing that I've been hearing
all around.
And my friends have also told me about it too, that they were like, you know, since
I posted our announcement for a letter, like, and they're not in the science fields at all.
(23:56):
They said, we've been seeing this term gut brain access all throughout.
And they're like, what is the connection between our brain and our stomach?
And I'm like, well, you have to wait for the experts to tell us.
So you know, this has been going all around.
They think it's also become a trampoline for a lot of wellness products as well, right?
(24:17):
And a lot of the wellness things that we see online.
What is this term coming about called the gut brain access?
What is the connection between their brain and the stomach?
Another one that I think is thrown about way too much.
It's too soon.
So the gut brain access research, I can tell you even within the scientific community,
(24:39):
like how difficult it is to convince people that there is a connection between the gut
and the brain.
People will say to you, there's like an ocean between the gut and the brain, how do you
communicate?
And so that's not to say that there isn't a connection.
A lot of evidence over 10 years of evidence now mounting to show that there is this connection.
It's just that with anything this new, neuroscience in itself is also quite a new field.
(25:03):
You have to be careful and it's very early days.
And so, you know, I'd be careful with any company or any probiotic or whatever saying
that it has effects on the brain.
It might, I definitely, some of my research is showing alterations to the gut can definitely
affect the brain and affect that behavior, but the mechanisms and pinning down exactly
(25:24):
what you can target to have that effect is not quite there yet.
So the gut and the brain, the gut, which is called the gut brain axis is this bi-directional
communication just back and forth.
The brain communicates with the gut and the gut communicates with the brain.
And we know that there are several routes of communication.
You know, just this morning I was at a lecture about how our body communicates with our brain
(25:47):
that it's full or that it's hungry, even things like thermoregulation, cold and this interaction.
So there's different routes and some people study the nervous system and that connects
it.
So there's a specific nerve called the vagus nerve, from the gut to the brain.
But this vagus nerve also innovates so many other organs.
(26:10):
It has so many jobs other than just the gut brain axis.
But people are really refining the vagus nerve now and looking at specific parts of the vagus
nerve that innovate the gut and kind of assessing which ones are the signal.
So that's one way that they can communicate through the nervous system.
Then you have through hormones.
(26:30):
Then you have the immune system as well.
So what I focus on and it is touching on the immune system more and more now.
And I'm just like, you know, neuroscience is enough.
I really don't have quite a few aspects of my research that look into the immune system
is another way that they can communicate, but also metabolize.
So the reason you have bacteria in your gut is they help metabolize and break down the
(26:56):
foods that you eat and they help you produce nutrients and components that you can't produce
on yourself otherwise.
So a lot of these metabolites that are released by gut bacteria can enter circulation and
enter the brain.
And so that's another route of communication between the gut brain axis.
As you're talking about the bacteria, you know, what comes into mind is the term that
we've also been seeing, right?
(27:16):
The gut microbiome, you know, that we've been seeing everywhere.
That said, given that it is a bidirectional relationship between the gut and the brain,
does this mean that the brain or the gut in itself in the one term, does it give influence
on the foods or the drinks that we should consume to maintain this healthy relationship?
(27:37):
I realized I jumped into the gut microbiome.
Because I'm so used to anyone saying that, oh, they mean the gut microbiome, but of course
it's more than just that.
So yeah, or the gut microbiome refers to the trillions of microorganisms that live in your
gut.
And those are bacteria, but also you have virus and fungi, all sorts in there.
(27:58):
And so a lot of my research has been the development of the gut microbiome.
So all of my research has been like early life and also the gut.
So when you're born, it's still kind of debated whether there's a microbiome before birth.
I think it's kind of most likely isn't.
But when you're born, the bacteria from your mother's vaginal canal and else, that's wonderful.
(28:20):
But after you're born, it sets the imprint of your microbiome or imprints your first exposure
to bacteria.
And over the first five years, your microbiome is kind of fluctuating and then it begins
to stabilize.
From five years, it takes on like an adult composition.
And after that, it's actually very difficult to change your microbiome drastically.
(28:42):
So unless it's like something through sustained diet, yes, diet is definitely one of the factors
that influences the microbiome, what you eat, but also several other factors in early life,
such as how you were born, was it vaginal, was it cesarean?
And then you were weaned.
A lot of my research was around when you should wean or shouldn't wean a mammal because that
(29:04):
huge dietary switch from milk to solids.
And so that will affect the microbiome.
So yes, what you eat will affect your microbiome and it's probably the best way to influence
your microbiome for good or for bad.
Yeah.
And speaking of influence, I mean, people are definitely influenced online.
I think this new science or rather this new thinking is like very exploited, right, by
(29:30):
a lot of companies and a lot of, oh, if you do this detox cleanse, it will change your
flora in your stomach and you'll become healthier and all that.
What can you say about all of those online tactics when it comes to the microbiomes here?
All I'm going to say is in the lab, when I want to change my animal's microbiome, I have
(29:53):
to do some seriously drastic things, like give them a really like long or strong dose
of antibiotics for like 10 days to knock down all their gut or I can generate them jam free.
So it takes a lot to influence your microbiome.
But that's not to say that there are certain things that you can do and can eat that do
(30:14):
influence your microbiome for the better.
So in general, a healthy microbiome is defined by diversity.
So think of it like race, as many Italian, Spanish, whatever people that you know.
The more diverse, the better.
And that's because you'll have so many different functional groups doing their thing and producing
what they need to produce.
(30:35):
So diversity of your microbiome and then the ratio of these two major bacterial phyla in
there is the two other important marker.
And so focusing on eating things like fiber, I know you're not focusing on this, but it's
true because it helps with gut motility and everything else.
It changes the conditions within the gut and a lot of gut bacteria use it as like a substrate.
(30:58):
The best advice I've heard from somebody called John Kryan, who's a big name in the field,
is when you eat, if you try and make sure your plate looks like a rainbow, basically
as colorful as possible and different varieties as possible, your microbiome will be fine.
And he's talking about fiber or the diversity of the diet they're proposing.
(31:19):
Yeah, those are things that you can listen out to and take on board.
I think this also ties a lot into the research that you do at Mount Sinai, right?
I mean, I read parts of it where you talk about the Shankiri gene and the influence
of the gut microbiome potentially on, I think, the autism spectrum, right?
Can you talk more about your research on that?
Yeah, as if addiction wasn't enough, I decided to...
(31:40):
I am trying to find a way to kind of like merge the two.
But autism, how I got into that was from my PhD project, looking at diet in early life
and how diet can affect your microbiome in early life and how if your microbiome is altered
in early life, your brain is then altered and so because your brain regulates mood and
(32:02):
behavior, basically what you eat can affect your mood, essentially was my PhD work or
it can affect behavior, so things in early life.
And so because autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, it has a developmental origin.
So if something happens during the development of the brain, that results in phenotypes of
autism.
(32:23):
And I do have to be very careful how I speak here because it's really great that there's
a lobby or people who advocate for how autism researchers use terms of autism.
So currently it's defined as autism spectrum disorder because symptoms and phenotypes,
but people are trying to move away from the word disorder and maybe use the word like
difference.
(32:44):
But anyway, I'm straying at the developmental origin and so we're looking at what is it
that goes different during development that can result in behaviors and I look at the
microbiome so it can it be an environmental factor or is it a genetic factor?
So a lot of my research and a lot of neuropsychiatry is both genetic and environmental factors
and autism is one of them.
(33:04):
And so Mount Sinai, the SEVA Autism Center that I was working for, they really did a
lot of heavy lifting when it comes to defining or finding out the gene genetic aspects of
autism.
And the SHANK3 gene was one of these genes that's associated with autism.
And so I took the SHANK3 mouse model that we generated where we mutated the SHANK3 gene
(33:25):
and studied it and I then applied environmental insults to that.
So now I can look at gene by environment interactions that contribute to autism.
But yeah, you might have to ask me like a more specific question about autism in our
answer because I mean besides that, I actually really wanted to touch on Resveratrol that
I know is also in correlation to this study.
(33:48):
If you could talk more about that specifically.
I mean, I think mostly people that I know they hear is very short from their skincare
with grapes.
Yeah, so that it's very interesting that you bring that up because that's actually
that was more related to my addiction.
But you know, there's been one or two papers out there, not very high impact or anything,
(34:08):
but there is some evidence to suggest that maybe treatment with polyphenols is something
that can a dietary that you can take with specific forms or symptoms of autism.
But I was studying the two completely independently.
And the microbiome and how the microbiome could alter social behavior, which is defining
(34:29):
symptoms of autism.
The Resveratrol story comes from a researcher called Julio Pasinetti at Mount Sinai and
he has been studying polyphenols for a long time.
Polyphenols are the bioactive molecules found in grapes and Resveratrol, I believe, is also
a polyphenol.
And so what Julio did was he tested this mixture of polyphenols that they found to be bioactive
(34:55):
or brain penetrant, like they enter the and it was literally things like grape seed extract
that you can buy.
Grape seed extract, Resveratrol and Concord grape juice with sugar content.
It was this mixture that you can buy at the day shops that he basically has published
over 15 papers on to show that it increases resilience against stress.
(35:21):
When people say, you know, scientists don't look into natural compounds and their benefits,
that's not true.
We do.
And so polyphenols have been shown to certain metabolites, breakdown products from Resveratrol,
polyphenols enter the brain and can act on circuits and neurons involved in places that
mediate stress and anxiety.
So what I did was I took the polyphenol mixture that's already been tested against like memory
(35:45):
and function, improving resilience.
I took that same mixture and I tested it against opioid addiction like behavior in mice.
We did find some really interesting effects that polyphenols can kind of reduce addiction
like behavior to a load of morphine.
So more evidence suggests that there is benefits to polyphenols and Resveratrol.
(36:11):
In this world of social media that places so much physical critique and pressure and
maintaining a youthful appearance against all environmental odds, the skincare and beauty
industries have succumbed to a myriad of anti-aging practices.
However, the covert fact is that beauty is timeless and that aging is a privilege.
Regence, an inclusive wellness brand, seeks to promote this ritual of well aging, understanding
(36:36):
that there is connectivity with the body and attentive care given to it as it changes,
including our skin.
Founded by Filipino-American Gili Orizio, Regence introduces the all-encompassing serum
created to target the concerns of maturing, melanated skin by utilizing a blend of healing
botanicals used by our ancestors and select clinically proven active ingredients.
(36:59):
From the brightening Ayurvedic licorice root to the soothing Centella Asiatica and hydrating
green algae, welcome to the journey of fueling skin health and enhancing, not changing, your
natural shade.
With the code FRANZ, that's F-R-A-N-Z, you can get 15% off your first order on RegenceWellness.com.
(37:20):
Experience the power of mixing native wisdom with modern day science.
Do you have any guilty pleasures?
I have one.
Twerle.
Given that the average cafe-made milk tea has over 100 calories per serving, over 20
grams of high-glycemic sugar, and is packed with artificial flavors, I am so glad that
(37:40):
the guilty days are over with Twerle, the world's first canned plant-based milk tea.
With only 45 to 50 calories per serving and containing 6 to 7 grams of low-glycemic sweeteners,
Twerle is made with pea milk, the most sustainable plant-based milk on the market, regenerating
the soil where it comes from.
Fair trade and organic are the names of the game as the teas are sourced from biodiverse
(38:02):
family farms in China, Japan, and Taiwan that practice sustainable farming techniques.
No artificial flavors are ever used.
From four different flavors to ready-to-eat plant-based konjac and boba pearls, let's
enjoy tasty, creamy, shelf-stable, and healthy milk tea together for 10% off using the code
FRANZ10, that's F-R-A-N-Z, 1-0, on twirlmilktee.com.
(38:26):
Roll around and it's goodness.
Growing up, I was ashamed of my Asian heritage.
Classmates would comment about the lunch my grandma cooked, other kids would make fun
of my eyes, and even some adults today would tell me to go back to where I came from.
But where do I really belong?
Who really am I?
Am I not American enough?
(38:47):
Highlighting the year of the first documented arrival of Asian Americans in North America,
1587 Sneakers seeks to shine the spotlight on Asian American stories and demonstrate
to the world the extraordinary breadth of our passions and achievements.
Baited full-grain natural Italian leather by Faux-Weir Artisans, 100% biodegradable
natural rubber outsole, calf leather interior lining for comfort and good smells, and waxed
(39:13):
cotton laces for longer-lasting cleanliness, these premium sneakers combine the highest
quality, an array of timeless designs, and the movement to be authentically who you are.
With the code FRANCE15 that's lowercase FRANZ15, you can get 15% off your first order on 1587sneakers.com.
Step into embracing your identity without hiding, express yourself, and apologetically.
(39:45):
One thing that you just said was just so interesting to me was improving resilience, right?
And I think something that you've mentioned a lot so far is about stress and anxiety and
definitely something that you deal with is like neuropsychiatry, right?
And it makes me seem like the fields of psychiatry and psychology are like cousins with neuroscience.
So obviously they're all connected with the brain and all of that, but they seem to be
(40:08):
three very different disciplines.
But based on your experience in neuroscience, what have you seen about anxiety and depression
when it comes to whether the risk factors or anything that you can say about them in
regards to, I guess, the biological mechanism of the neuroscience in itself outside of obviously
(40:29):
the psych aspect of it?
Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there, but yeah, psychiatry are technically different
just as neuroscience is different to psychiatry.
So I can only speak from the lens of neuroscience and not so much psychology.
In terms of anxiety, depression, again, all of these conditions have both genetic and
(40:53):
environmental factors.
In terms of brain, there are definitely specific circuits and regions that you see to be more
hyperactive in anxiety.
And the whole point, Mount Sinai is really big on resilience research.
How do you increase people's resilience against stress?
And so, I said, at least how we do that is we chronically stress the mice over time,
(41:18):
and then you study different interventions, things like environmental enrichment.
So if a mouse is being stressed daily, but after the stress, you're returning him to
a cage that has a room and some bedding and some pups, colleagues to play with.
Is he now more resilient to the depression that comes from chronic stress?
(41:38):
That's the kind of research that's done.
And also, once you've identified that mouse is anxious and you've identified the circuit
in the brain or the neurons that's associated with that, then you can try and look at what
dampens that as it or what calms it down.
But again, a lot of these conditions do have some sort of origin from either early life
factors during childhood and development.
(42:00):
You can inherit anxiety.
Again, there's genetic components.
I think some of the most interesting things that I've seen in terms of anxiety recently,
especially as it pertains to communities of color or communities that have gone through
traumatic history, is that anxiety and fear can be passed down through generations through
(42:21):
epigenetic.
And again, this is a very word that you probably heard buzzing around research of people like
Bianca Marlin at Columbia University is showing that this is really a thing that happens.
And so just to arm you with a bit of knowledge as to how that happens, like how you can pass
on anxiety from one generation to the next, your DNA is obviously wrapped around these
(42:43):
chromatin.
But what body needs to access the DNA to make a new protein, that chromatin has to kind
of open up to allow access to the DNA.
And so what epigenetics is, is changes not to the DNA itself, but to the chromatin structure.
And so what can happen is if you're constantly anxious and your body's constantly making
(43:05):
cortisol, it might happen that over time the epigenetics is such that the gene for cortisol
is easily accessible and open.
Pass that onto your kids.
They're now producing cortisol at a higher rate just because of epigenetically it was
modified.
So it's very interesting anxiety and they're increasing worldwide.
(43:28):
Things like loneliness are also increasing, which we think is a contributing factor to
anxiety and depression.
It's much research as to how we can improve it or address it really.
Yeah.
I mean, all of this are just very hard hitting facts and topics.
I mean, we talk a lot about the gut microbiome and the influences of everything when it comes
(43:52):
to the brains and the nerves.
What do you think is the best part or the most rewarding part about neuroscience for
you?
Honestly, for me, it's being able to explain or justify feeling certain things or behaving
in certain ways.
So calling myself a behavioral neuroscientist can sometimes be a double-edged sword in that
you're able to see things through a certain lens and perspective.
(44:15):
And I can convey that now through scientific terminology and explanation.
So that's what I like.
That's the most rewarding aspect for me of neuroscience is being able to provide a biological
explanation and terminology for everyday feelings and emotions and behaviors.
And the soothing aspect of that is once people understand something or once you understand
(44:36):
why you're feeling and behaving a certain way, it's the first step to curing that issue
or that behavior or feeling.
Yeah.
Wow.
That was beautiful.
I will really speak to that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, but despite all of the ability to put into words, like we said
earlier, there's still so much more to learn, so much more to discover and things that the
(44:58):
mind cannot fathom.
It's very so interesting that we're trying to study the mind, but even our own minds
cannot wrap against all of those things, right?
The mind is actually something completely different to the brain and neuroscience and
these hard facts of, you know, the synapse fires in the calcium.
(45:20):
All of that is very different to what is the mind, right?
And that's really now you're getting into cognitive neuroscience.
And those are the ones I look at and I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't want to do what you're doing.
So yeah, the cognitive neuroscience and the mind aspect of stuff.
But yeah, there's, there's a, it's a very new field.
Neuroscience is still a lot to find out.
You know, recently we're finding out the importance of the immune system in the brain and, you
(45:43):
know, we thought the brain was predominantly all neurons and, you know, neurons are really
what carry out the action.
But we actually have more immune cells called microglia and astrocytes in the brain that
kind of act like a support group to neurons and they like heal the neuron and look after
it.
And so now the whole, like I said, the neuroimmunology field is starting to bloom and it's like,
(46:06):
whoa, all right.
Another thing and another one.
And you know, like we said earlier, right, how can one not be neurotic after trying to
grasp the field of neuroscience, right?
And I think this leads us to the question of how do you separate yourself from all of
these tangles, no pun intended, tangles and tangles of information and expertise.
(46:31):
I mean, I touch on the fact that you're international fashion model, which I want to know how this
happens and how is that like Hannah Montana life between scientists and being a model,
but also in general, just like how do you separate yourself from this intricate and
complex world?
I want to say I've been seeing some of your modeling work as well as balance both fields
(46:55):
as well.
So thank you.
But honestly, I think when people ask me that question, I'm like, duh, of course I need
another outlet or something to like help balance.
I think most of my colleagues have some sort of, whether they play the guitar or, you know,
they're big nature people, they're out hiking, but you have to have a way of switching off.
(47:16):
I think the best word I've heard that explains it is when people say, I don't have the bandwidth.
There's days when like I have two brain cells that are functioning right now.
And so I'm very strict with myself when it comes to it, just because I know what I can
produce after I've switched off.
And so I do it with the greater good of producing better work in the coming days.
(47:37):
And so, you know, and we all know research is very tough.
You know, not only is it hard to understand conceptually, but when you're in the lab and
trying to have these experiments, that in itself is also a thing.
So you have to be kind to yourself.
You have to find ways to relax.
And, you know, whether that's me and you doing it through front of the camera or other ways,
(47:57):
it's definitely, you know, when I speak to trainees and young people coming up in the
field, they have to have protection mechanisms or relaxation mechanisms.
So my modeling actually started way before my science, not way before, but like, you
know, maybe three, but I think I always knew I didn't want to just do modeling because
first of all, looks fade.
And second, if you kind of have that platform, deliver something more than just an image,
(48:22):
right?
I like the image is really nice, like art.
But sometimes a bit of a deeper message can go a long way.
And so I think combining the two makes my science reach a bit further and reach communities
it wouldn't otherwise reach.
Yeah.
I mean, so beautiful.
I mean, an expertise of so many fields, honestly.
And well, Dr. I is just such an honor to have you on tonight.
(48:46):
I feel like you're so contagious.
Like, like, all of your knowledge is going my brain is like ready to explode right now.
I literally have to probably sit down for 30 minutes after our live and think about
everything that you just said.
And you know, now we're connected.
But yeah, like anything you're interested in reading about, you want me to send you
a review or maybe like anxiety and depression.
I'm happy to do that.
(49:07):
Yeah, Dr. Osmond, thank you so much.
I'm so happy this finally happened.
Such an honor.
And thank you so much again for coming on.
Have a really great evening.
Thank you.
Hi friends, happy Friday!
(00:07):
Friends of Franz Friday in the house!
How are you doing?
How about me?
I'm doing single.
Thank you for asking.
Valentine's Day is around the quarter and I could not be more bitter.
I'm joking.
But honestly though, I'm curious to know what you're all getting your boyfriend or girlfriend
or spouse or partner or whatever you call your special someone this upcoming day of
(00:29):
hearts.
All you blessed people.
Are there roses involved or chocolates or a good dinner?
The another famous saying, the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Well for our podcast episode today, we'll take quite a spin on that saying instead of
the heart because mine is cold and lonely.
We'll instead be talking about the brain.
(00:52):
The way to a man's brain is through his stomach.
Say what?
As you know, this is a science and medicine podcast.
So we're keeping evidence based and researched back here.
The heart plays the brain.
The brain and the stomach in unison connection.
You got that right.
If you're on social media, especially TikTok, for sure you have heard this two terms by
(01:16):
now.
Probiotics and the gut microbiome or gut microbiota.
These pushed for products and concepts of an ecosystem of bacteria and microorganisms
in our stomach or gut have been blooming online in recent years.
And probiotics which are said to support this environment in turn of health benefits like
improved nutrient absorption, skin inflammation and even mental acuity have been lauded by
(01:40):
influencers and experts alike.
This is said to be due to our enteric nervous system, the largest and most complex unit
of the peripheral nervous system.
Yes, a little brain in our gut that facilitates the many functions of our gastrointestinal
tract.
Now, where does our actual brain come into play?
The gut brain axis or GBA.
(02:00):
In recent years of research and even simple discourse online, there has been talks of
the communication between our gut's enteric nervous system and our central nervous system
found in our head, the brain.
The gut brain axis is a bidirectional communication between these two nervous systems.
Because the gut can influence the brain and the brain can influence the gut, it is believed
(02:21):
that what and how we eat can influence our behavior and emotions.
Likewise, some chaos in our brain like times of stress and overwhelming emotions can affect
our gut microbiome and the functions of our stomach, like its emptying times, mucosal
immune response, acid secretion and so forth.
But how actually true is all of this?
(02:41):
Does our gut health and in turn our diets affect the way our brains develop or how we
behave?
What does the scientists of the nervous system actually say?
I am so honored to be joined today by an expert to talk all about this.
We are joined today by behavioral neuroscientist, toxicologist, neuropharmacologist and international
fashion model Dr. Aya Osman.
(03:02):
She received her bachelor's in biomedical sciences with honors from the University of
London, master's in toxicology focusing on the role of adenosine and glutamate receptors
in cocaine addiction from the University of Surrey, where she also received her PhD in
toxicology and neuropharmacology, where she investigated the development of brain opioid
and oxytocin receptor systems in response to early life dietary manipulation.
(03:26):
She then worked as a toxicologist at the Center for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental
Hazards for the governmental body Public Health England.
Dr. Osman completed her postdoctoral research fellowship at the Friedman Brain Institute
in the Seaver Autism Center for Research and Treatment at Icahn School of Medicine
at Mount Sinai, here in New York City, where she now serves as an assistant professor,
(03:47):
focusing on the role of gut microbiome changes in brain development and the pathophysiology
of neuropsychiatric disorders.
I mean, you have the perfect person to talk all about this.
I hope you enjoyed today's episode.
You're in for a wild ride today.
I have a gut feeling.
Have a good day.
Hello!
Thank you so much for joining me tonight.
(04:07):
Awesome, thank you for having me.
Of course, are you a student?
I am.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
I am a student of the University of London.
Are you in New York City as well?
Yes, I am.
Are you?
Yes.
I am so happy that the sun is setting later and later into the day and we're having more
sunlight.
(04:27):
Where in New York are you?
I'm in Brooklyn right now.
How are you?
Brooklyn is where my heart lives.
Yes it is.
Well again, thank you so much for being with me tonight.
You know, we've been planning this for quite a while now and today is the perfect day for
us to finally have this.
We have so many things to talk about, about science and also other things.
(04:50):
If you could just first please introduce yourself to everybody.
Yes, thank you for having me again.
You know, you've had some wonderful guests on your platform so I'm honored to be one
of them.
My name is Aya Osman and I'm a researcher and neuroscientist in New York and I will
get into all of our research and stuff.
Originally, I'm from the UK but originally before that my parents are from Africa and
(05:15):
as many of you might know or have heard in the news at the moment, Sudan's undergoing
a terrible time at the moment with fighting between two army leaders.
So they used to be part of the same army and amongst each other for rule over the land.
But you know, it's kind of like the war has now reached the capital Khartoum and it's
kind of like seeing like LA or London or New York.
(05:37):
You know, it's just so to see somewhere that's so familiar and usually bustling, now kind
of scattered with dead bodies and rockets and whatnot.
Yep, just wanted to say if everyone is listening, you know, just like follow, keep eyes on the
matter if there's any links for donations and things like that.
Yeah, definitely.
And thank you for sharing this.
Definitely such a pressing issue.
(05:58):
I know that the whole conflict started like on April 15 and since then it's like so many
lives have been lost.
I know hospital and health centers have been seized and I think fear for biological warfare
because of a lab was seized, right, and just so many heartbreaking things going on and
super agree with raising awareness.
(06:18):
So thank you so much for sharing that.
I'll talk about something around like 400 people have lost their lives currently and
over 3000 injured.
So yeah, thank you for highlighting those facts.
I mean, as a side turn to that, I think what went on today, especially, I think it's very
close to what you have been doing in the past too.
I mean, I know that you're doing your science now, but I know you also have gotten into
(06:43):
toxicology as well.
Can you just give us a timeline and this journey of how you reached to where you are now doing
all this amazing research?
I have to say you've definitely done your homework.
You have done your MSc in toxicology.
I'll start this by saying that I'm definitely one of those people that didn't have like
a blueprint in mind.
I honestly just followed my instincts and what I enjoyed and what I felt I was good
(07:07):
at.
So my journey into science really began from high school.
Well, you know, it began before that in that my parents, my mother's side of the family
were, you know, multiple PhD holders, philosophers, and none of them really followed that track
in the West.
And so I've always been around people who were like big thinkers and philosophical thinkers.
And then from my dad's side of the family, he's a lawyer, so he's very much evidence
(07:31):
based.
And so I ended up on track.
And so from high school, just noticed I had a talent for science and biology in particular.
And then in the UK, you kind of finished high school, then you have A levels and A levels,
I chose biology, you know, basic science.
And then when it got to university, which is what I think the equivalent of college
here, I chose to do biomedical science because that was more of a broad entry into, I was
(07:56):
going to medicine and you know, there's always pressure from family to go down that route.
So at first, that's really why I did biomedical science thinking I'd go through.
But then really during the biomedical science degrees, when I got introduced to pharmacology
and neuroscience and toxicology, my introduction to neuroscience was through the pharmacology
and toxicology lens, that's drugs and you know, how your body metabolizes, how they
(08:21):
act on the system.
And so I finished my biomedical science degree and realized I loved learning and love studying
and wanted to continue down the pharmacology and toxicology route.
But I didn't do that straight away.
I actually worked like in retail for a while.
I was like a manager for Abercrombie for a while.
And that was a way of like also saving money towards my master.
(08:42):
And then I started my master's in toxicology.
And so yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you know, people may be watching us be like, what is toxicology?
What is this all about?
You know, the root word in there is toxic.
But as a toxicologist yourself, what is the premise behind this whole field?
So toxicology is really the interaction between hazardous or dangerous substances and living
(09:04):
organisms, right?
So that covers anything from humans to trees and the environment.
And so toxicology in several branches is actually quite a broad discipline because yeah, toxins
or hazardous substances can interact with so much.
And so it really covers, you know, cellular and molecular biology, immunology, pharmacology,
how drugs are broken down, pathology.
(09:27):
And so you have toxicologists that specialize in each of those principles.
And so during my master's, we covered all of that.
But then for my master's research project, I focused on pharmacology aspect and drugs
and how I fertilize drugs.
And I then got into drugs of abuse and how they are toxins to the brain.
If you, you know, cocaine, these are toxins, right?
(09:49):
So that's how I got into drug addiction through the toxicology route.
But before I went on to do my PhD, which delve deeper into all of that, there was a bunch
of toxicology, which is more like the environmental public health aspect of it.
So after my master's again, I told you I didn't have this direct trajectory.
After I finished my master's, I actually worked for about two and a half years for Public
(10:13):
Health England as a desk-based toxicologist.
So what your job there really is all about, you know, you're dealing with governmental
bodies like the environmental agency.
For example, say there's a leak somewhere, a chemical leak, you'd get all that information
and you'd have to do an assessment of what levels are safe from this leak, who needs
to be evacuated, how much level of, you know, is safe for people around that area to be
(10:37):
exposed to.
So it was mainly assessing hazards that came into Public Health England and providing information
in terms of the toxic dose and how to treat it.
But it wasn't a web-based, you know, desk.
Yeah.
I mean, super interesting.
I mean, this whole field and this whole discipline.
And I think it's very relevant to our time now.
(10:57):
I think as people in the world are spending more time on social media, are spending more
time on the internet, that are landing on Google searches or news that's set out in
social media, right?
And I think a word that's commonly seen now online is the word toxic, right?
You see in skincare, like, oh, this is a toxic chemical found in sunscreens.
(11:21):
Oh, this is toxic.
Don't use it.
It's not natural.
It's not this or that.
And to some extent, it may seem like the word toxic and toxicity is overused or not.
And that's what I wanted to ask you as the expert of the field, what is the exact meaning
or what causes something to be toxic?
(11:42):
Is it the substance itself or is the dose the poison?
Exactly.
You hit the nail on the head there.
So the concept of toxicology was actually born by this Renaissance physician called
Persels.
I think he was in his real name.
He gave himself that name.
And he was really the first one to come out and say the toxin is in the dose.
(12:02):
Anything and everything from the nutrients that are good for us to water to cocaine,
all of them are safe up until a certain dose, right?
And beyond that, they become hazardous in that they have off-target negative effects.
And so it was from this, the dose is what makes the poison, that the modern concept
of a threshold, you know, no adverse effect level, which is a threshold that, you know,
(12:27):
everything that's tested from vaccines to everyday shower gels and deodorants all undergo
toxic testing and they're all those at which they are safe, essentially.
Yeah.
Anyone?
It is definitely overused without finding that even drinking water can be toxic.
Definitely.
I have for sure that the term is overused, but I really wanted to also delve into one
(12:51):
of your researches that is very interesting is about cocaine addiction, right?
I know you're talking about like adenosine and glutamate receptors.
I guess for the lay person, what have you seen as a toxicologist and who has studied,
you know, this field of cocaine addiction and illicit drug addiction?
What did they really do to the brain?
(13:11):
I think it's become a culture now as well, right?
In our music festivals and people take it recreationally now as well.
What does science say about these substances?
You know, drugs are wonderful things if we didn't get it.
So the main issue with drugs is addiction because drugs can actually have great benefits
from, you know, reducing pain to alleviate symptoms of depression and so on.
(13:36):
And the fact that they cause addiction, that was what makes them harmful.
And how they do that is all drugs of abuse essentially increase the levels of dopamine,
the neurotransmitter dopamine, in the reward circuit.
So for anything to be classified as potentially abusive or a drug of abuse, it has to act
(13:56):
on the dopamine system reward circuitry.
That's really the main mechanism of, well, each drug has its own mechanism of action.
Pain and methamphetamine, you know, they increase hyperactivity or make people active whereas
opioids and cannabinoids or cannabis, you know, reduce activity.
So all drugs of abuse have their own mechanism of action, but they all converge into this
(14:18):
one thing, which is they increase dopamine and they result in addiction.
And so how they result in addiction is the main study that everyone's focused on because
if you can feel that, that's wonderful.
And so because the reward circuitry is part of the reward circuitry, they're part of the
oldest parts of our brain, they evolved and we needed them because we need our brain to
(14:41):
tell us when something is good for us.
So if you eat something, it tastes good, you're going to want to feel reward so that you keep
eating so you can survive.
Same with socializing, same with sex, same with all these rewarding things.
They all increase dopamine in the brain, but none of them do them to the extent that drugs
of abuse do.
And so drugs of abuse cause dopamine at such high levels, that's how they affect the brain.
(15:06):
And so what happens over time is, you know, drug addiction is kind of defined by the cycle
of first of all, intoxication, the first time you take it, then you start to binge because
it felt good, you keep doing it, then you try to stop and you get withdrawal and then
you get preoccupation and then you read that.
And so the cycle goes over and over again.
And this all comes from this elevated level of dopamine.
(15:29):
And then when that isn't there anymore, when you stop taking the drug, because the dopamine
levels are so low now, the brain is trying to like adjust different parts of your brain
get recruited, like the amygdala, which starts to make you feel anxious and afraid once you've
stopped taking the drug.
The cortex, which is the front part of your brain and kind of controls socializing and
decisions, making decisions, that also gets kind of looped into the addiction cycle.
(15:54):
So when you stop taking the drug, even your prefrontal cortex is now compromised.
And so that's really where you start seeing people get withdrawn because they're not taking
the drug anymore, or they're preoccupied with getting the drug and they're socially withdrawn.
So all in all, in answer to your question, drugs affect our brain all because of this
increase in dopamine that they cause and then the downstream consequences of that sustained
(16:17):
high level.
Ever since I was a child, my inner arms and neck would always suffer from itchiness and
irritation whenever I would sweat.
It can become so debilitating, forcing myself not to scratch my skin and end up with wounds
from prickly heat, especially at night.
Thankfully, I have found relief through Bi-Dr. Mom's soothing beta cream and soothing bed
(16:41):
treatment, which uses barley derived beta-glucan technology to help alleviate eczema, bug bites
and dry itchy irritated skin.
Beta-glucan is a fiber shown in scientific studies to improve skin hydration and healing
and Bi-Dr. Mom's products extract it with a technique that uses air technology, requiring
no chemicals or solvents.
(17:01):
Created by family physician Dr. Stephanie Liu with the help of an allergist and immunologist,
you can now allow your skin to breathe and heal naturally.
Using the code CHRISTIAN10, that's C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-1-0, you can get 10% off your first order on Bi-DrMom.com.
As a healthcare worker, my identity can become so boxed within the pressures and expectations
(17:24):
of my profession that sometimes, I forget who I really am outside the hospital walls.
This is why I find so much power in liberation and self-expression through fashion and accessories,
and Lupin seeks to do the same.
Encouraging self-confidence and creating a safe space to be yourself, Lupin seeks to
share with the world simple and impactful jewelry pieces that can bring confidence effortlessly.
(17:47):
Meaning what goes around comes around, the brand, comprised of third generation jewelers,
holds a mission to brighten the community by promoting positivity and a growth mindset.
Lupin's clean designs are handcrafted in South Korea using 925 sterling silver and
can go with almost any outfit on anyone.
In fact, I wear my pieces on and off shift.
(18:08):
With the code FRANZ, that's F-R-A-N-Z, you can get 15% off your first order on Lupin.com.
Let's bring more luster into the world, together with Lupin.
I remember coming home every day from elementary school and smelling the newly steamed jasmine
rice in the cooker that my grandmother made just in time for dinner.
(18:29):
It reminded me of my first few years living on the farm back home in Asia, sniffing the
rice while overlooking the fields.
Founded in 2020, Bison Candle Co. imports nostalgic and iconic scented soy wax candles
inspired by the Asian scents, flavors, and traditions that founder Brandon Leung grew
up with in his first generation Chinese American household.
(18:52):
Brandon's mission with Bison is to create authentic Asian aromas while rediscovering
his love of his Chinese culture and heritage.
The candles and home fragrances celebrate aromatic eastern flavors and aromas one would
typically find in an Asian kitchen or pantry like Vietnamese coffee, steamed white rice,
and white peach.
Enjoy traditional scents alongside some modern spin-off blends and be taken back into the
(19:15):
beauty of the motherland with the code BISONFRANZ, that's B-A-I-S-U-N-F-R-A-N-Z, for 15% off
your first order at BisonCandleCo.com.
This whole addiction mechanism is such an intricate topic, right?
(19:36):
I know that even if someone who is addicted to an illicit substance already, if they try
in a different environment or location, right?
They will need higher to get the higher that they did before.
It's just so interesting how the brain works in all of this.
And addiction is just one topic when it comes to the brain.
I mean, I'm so scared of neuroscience because it's just so much.
(19:58):
There's so much information that you decided to be an expert in it.
It's exhausting.
You feel like you don't know anything.
But yeah, I just wanted to kind of touch on what you said on there that when you take
a drug in a specific setting, your brain learns to associate that setting with the drug.
And so if you ever stopped taking a drug after a while and you come back to that setting,
(20:23):
you're more likely to relapse.
So that's actually called conditioning and we in the lab when we're testing addiction
in mice because how the mouse is addicted or not.
It's not like a human.
You can't ask.
So we do something called conditioned place preference where it gets a chamber with two
different rooms that look and feel different to the mouse.
(20:44):
And in one chamber, we give it an injection of just saline.
And so now it's this room with feeling not high.
And in a different room for like days, depending on what drug it is, you give it an injection
of your drug of choice.
And you do that over time until the animal learns to condition that room with the and
then on the final day of the test, you put your mouse like kind of in the middle and
(21:06):
you let it choose.
And if it chooses the room that you used to get the drug in, then you know it's addicted.
Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting.
You know, actually, a few episodes ago, I have a live stream with a neurosurgeon and
I was like, what is the most interesting thing that you've seen so far in your like, I think,
four decades of experiences being your surgeon?
(21:26):
And she was like, honestly, it's just that there's something new every day that I find
out about the brain.
And it just reminded me of what you just said where it's like she even said, I think I'm
going to get neurotic during neurology.
Honestly, all jokes aside, like, I know people who have actually left neuroscience because
they found it so difficult studying something that first of all is so difficult and endless,
(21:48):
but also so applicable to everyday life.
So you start over analyzing everything or if you condition and you're studying that condition,
forget it.
You're definitely going to then go.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And then we'll talk about why I also do everything else on the side.
Yeah, definitely.
You know, like, like in our show about a neurosurgeon, it's very mechanical, very physical, very
(22:10):
surgical.
And then you have the whole field of neuroscience.
When you think of neuroscience, all that's coming up in my mind is just like neurons
sending electrical signals to each other, you know, all the action potentials and just
down the line.
As the expert, you are the expert here.
What is the premise of neuroscience?
(22:30):
And I know specifically with the behavioral neuroscience, what differentiates the two?
Neuroscience, like simply put, is the study of the nervous system, right?
And so that's both the brain and the periphery because you have nerves.
And so the main focus of neuroscience is the brain.
(22:50):
And like you said, neurons, the science of neurons, you have over 86 billion neurons
in your brain.
So there's a lot to study there.
So people, you know, the biology of the neurons, some people study the circuits.
So then when you're talking about the brain, there's different, that's more people.
We call those more systems neuroscience because they're looking at it as a whole.
(23:12):
What I'm called is a behavioral neuroscientist because I look at how the science of those
neurons or how those neurons fire and how they work, how that drives behavior, right?
And so I try to map specific circuits in the brain that have anxiety or depression or parts
of addiction.
I don't really do much circuitry.
I'm trying to get more into circuitry.
(23:34):
So how the neuron itself fires or how the biology of that neuron contributes to a behavior.
And you know, a lot of your research also talks about this thing that I've been hearing
all around.
And my friends have also told me about it too, that they were like, you know, since
I posted our announcement for a letter, like, and they're not in the science fields at all.
(23:56):
They said, we've been seeing this term gut brain access all throughout.
And they're like, what is the connection between our brain and our stomach?
And I'm like, well, you have to wait for the experts to tell us.
So you know, this has been going all around.
They think it's also become a trampoline for a lot of wellness products as well, right?
(24:17):
And a lot of the wellness things that we see online.
What is this term coming about called the gut brain access?
What is the connection between their brain and the stomach?
Another one that I think is thrown about way too much.
It's too soon.
So the gut brain access research, I can tell you even within the scientific community,
(24:39):
like how difficult it is to convince people that there is a connection between the gut
and the brain.
People will say to you, there's like an ocean between the gut and the brain, how do you
communicate?
And so that's not to say that there isn't a connection.
A lot of evidence over 10 years of evidence now mounting to show that there is this connection.
It's just that with anything this new, neuroscience in itself is also quite a new field.
(25:03):
You have to be careful and it's very early days.
And so, you know, I'd be careful with any company or any probiotic or whatever saying
that it has effects on the brain.
It might, I definitely, some of my research is showing alterations to the gut can definitely
affect the brain and affect that behavior, but the mechanisms and pinning down exactly
(25:24):
what you can target to have that effect is not quite there yet.
So the gut and the brain, the gut, which is called the gut brain axis is this bi-directional
communication just back and forth.
The brain communicates with the gut and the gut communicates with the brain.
And we know that there are several routes of communication.
You know, just this morning I was at a lecture about how our body communicates with our brain
(25:47):
that it's full or that it's hungry, even things like thermoregulation, cold and this interaction.
So there's different routes and some people study the nervous system and that connects
it.
So there's a specific nerve called the vagus nerve, from the gut to the brain.
But this vagus nerve also innovates so many other organs.
(26:10):
It has so many jobs other than just the gut brain axis.
But people are really refining the vagus nerve now and looking at specific parts of the vagus
nerve that innovate the gut and kind of assessing which ones are the signal.
So that's one way that they can communicate through the nervous system.
Then you have through hormones.
(26:30):
Then you have the immune system as well.
So what I focus on and it is touching on the immune system more and more now.
And I'm just like, you know, neuroscience is enough.
I really don't have quite a few aspects of my research that look into the immune system
is another way that they can communicate, but also metabolize.
So the reason you have bacteria in your gut is they help metabolize and break down the
(26:56):
foods that you eat and they help you produce nutrients and components that you can't produce
on yourself otherwise.
So a lot of these metabolites that are released by gut bacteria can enter circulation and
enter the brain.
And so that's another route of communication between the gut brain axis.
As you're talking about the bacteria, you know, what comes into mind is the term that
we've also been seeing, right?
(27:16):
The gut microbiome, you know, that we've been seeing everywhere.
That said, given that it is a bidirectional relationship between the gut and the brain,
does this mean that the brain or the gut in itself in the one term, does it give influence
on the foods or the drinks that we should consume to maintain this healthy relationship?
(27:37):
I realized I jumped into the gut microbiome.
Because I'm so used to anyone saying that, oh, they mean the gut microbiome, but of course
it's more than just that.
So yeah, or the gut microbiome refers to the trillions of microorganisms that live in your
gut.
And those are bacteria, but also you have virus and fungi, all sorts in there.
(27:58):
And so a lot of my research has been the development of the gut microbiome.
So all of my research has been like early life and also the gut.
So when you're born, it's still kind of debated whether there's a microbiome before birth.
I think it's kind of most likely isn't.
But when you're born, the bacteria from your mother's vaginal canal and else, that's wonderful.
(28:20):
But after you're born, it sets the imprint of your microbiome or imprints your first exposure
to bacteria.
And over the first five years, your microbiome is kind of fluctuating and then it begins
to stabilize.
From five years, it takes on like an adult composition.
And after that, it's actually very difficult to change your microbiome drastically.
(28:42):
So unless it's like something through sustained diet, yes, diet is definitely one of the factors
that influences the microbiome, what you eat, but also several other factors in early life,
such as how you were born, was it vaginal, was it cesarean?
And then you were weaned.
A lot of my research was around when you should wean or shouldn't wean a mammal because that
(29:04):
huge dietary switch from milk to solids.
And so that will affect the microbiome.
So yes, what you eat will affect your microbiome and it's probably the best way to influence
your microbiome for good or for bad.
Yeah.
And speaking of influence, I mean, people are definitely influenced online.
I think this new science or rather this new thinking is like very exploited, right, by
(29:30):
a lot of companies and a lot of, oh, if you do this detox cleanse, it will change your
flora in your stomach and you'll become healthier and all that.
What can you say about all of those online tactics when it comes to the microbiomes here?
All I'm going to say is in the lab, when I want to change my animal's microbiome, I have
(29:53):
to do some seriously drastic things, like give them a really like long or strong dose
of antibiotics for like 10 days to knock down all their gut or I can generate them jam free.
So it takes a lot to influence your microbiome.
But that's not to say that there are certain things that you can do and can eat that do
(30:14):
influence your microbiome for the better.
So in general, a healthy microbiome is defined by diversity.
So think of it like race, as many Italian, Spanish, whatever people that you know.
The more diverse, the better.
And that's because you'll have so many different functional groups doing their thing and producing
what they need to produce.
(30:35):
So diversity of your microbiome and then the ratio of these two major bacterial phyla in
there is the two other important marker.
And so focusing on eating things like fiber, I know you're not focusing on this, but it's
true because it helps with gut motility and everything else.
It changes the conditions within the gut and a lot of gut bacteria use it as like a substrate.
(30:58):
The best advice I've heard from somebody called John Kryan, who's a big name in the field,
is when you eat, if you try and make sure your plate looks like a rainbow, basically
as colorful as possible and different varieties as possible, your microbiome will be fine.
And he's talking about fiber or the diversity of the diet they're proposing.
(31:19):
Yeah, those are things that you can listen out to and take on board.
I think this also ties a lot into the research that you do at Mount Sinai, right?
I mean, I read parts of it where you talk about the Shankiri gene and the influence
of the gut microbiome potentially on, I think, the autism spectrum, right?
Can you talk more about your research on that?
Yeah, as if addiction wasn't enough, I decided to...
(31:40):
I am trying to find a way to kind of like merge the two.
But autism, how I got into that was from my PhD project, looking at diet in early life
and how diet can affect your microbiome in early life and how if your microbiome is altered
in early life, your brain is then altered and so because your brain regulates mood and
(32:02):
behavior, basically what you eat can affect your mood, essentially was my PhD work or
it can affect behavior, so things in early life.
And so because autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder, it has a developmental origin.
So if something happens during the development of the brain, that results in phenotypes of
autism.
(32:23):
And I do have to be very careful how I speak here because it's really great that there's
a lobby or people who advocate for how autism researchers use terms of autism.
So currently it's defined as autism spectrum disorder because symptoms and phenotypes,
but people are trying to move away from the word disorder and maybe use the word like
difference.
(32:44):
But anyway, I'm straying at the developmental origin and so we're looking at what is it
that goes different during development that can result in behaviors and I look at the
microbiome so it can it be an environmental factor or is it a genetic factor?
So a lot of my research and a lot of neuropsychiatry is both genetic and environmental factors
and autism is one of them.
(33:04):
And so Mount Sinai, the SEVA Autism Center that I was working for, they really did a
lot of heavy lifting when it comes to defining or finding out the gene genetic aspects of
autism.
And the SHANK3 gene was one of these genes that's associated with autism.
And so I took the SHANK3 mouse model that we generated where we mutated the SHANK3 gene
(33:25):
and studied it and I then applied environmental insults to that.
So now I can look at gene by environment interactions that contribute to autism.
But yeah, you might have to ask me like a more specific question about autism in our
answer because I mean besides that, I actually really wanted to touch on Resveratrol that
I know is also in correlation to this study.
(33:48):
If you could talk more about that specifically.
I mean, I think mostly people that I know they hear is very short from their skincare
with grapes.
Yeah, so that it's very interesting that you bring that up because that's actually
that was more related to my addiction.
But you know, there's been one or two papers out there, not very high impact or anything,
(34:08):
but there is some evidence to suggest that maybe treatment with polyphenols is something
that can a dietary that you can take with specific forms or symptoms of autism.
But I was studying the two completely independently.
And the microbiome and how the microbiome could alter social behavior, which is defining
(34:29):
symptoms of autism.
The Resveratrol story comes from a researcher called Julio Pasinetti at Mount Sinai and
he has been studying polyphenols for a long time.
Polyphenols are the bioactive molecules found in grapes and Resveratrol, I believe, is also
a polyphenol.
And so what Julio did was he tested this mixture of polyphenols that they found to be bioactive
(34:55):
or brain penetrant, like they enter the and it was literally things like grape seed extract
that you can buy.
Grape seed extract, Resveratrol and Concord grape juice with sugar content.
It was this mixture that you can buy at the day shops that he basically has published
over 15 papers on to show that it increases resilience against stress.
(35:21):
When people say, you know, scientists don't look into natural compounds and their benefits,
that's not true.
We do.
And so polyphenols have been shown to certain metabolites, breakdown products from Resveratrol,
polyphenols enter the brain and can act on circuits and neurons involved in places that
mediate stress and anxiety.
So what I did was I took the polyphenol mixture that's already been tested against like memory
(35:45):
and function, improving resilience.
I took that same mixture and I tested it against opioid addiction like behavior in mice.
We did find some really interesting effects that polyphenols can kind of reduce addiction
like behavior to a load of morphine.
So more evidence suggests that there is benefits to polyphenols and Resveratrol.
(36:11):
In this world of social media that places so much physical critique and pressure and
maintaining a youthful appearance against all environmental odds, the skincare and beauty
industries have succumbed to a myriad of anti-aging practices.
However, the covert fact is that beauty is timeless and that aging is a privilege.
Regence, an inclusive wellness brand, seeks to promote this ritual of well aging, understanding
(36:36):
that there is connectivity with the body and attentive care given to it as it changes,
including our skin.
Founded by Filipino-American Gili Orizio, Regence introduces the all-encompassing serum
created to target the concerns of maturing, melanated skin by utilizing a blend of healing
botanicals used by our ancestors and select clinically proven active ingredients.
(36:59):
From the brightening Ayurvedic licorice root to the soothing Centella Asiatica and hydrating
green algae, welcome to the journey of fueling skin health and enhancing, not changing, your
natural shade.
With the code FRANZ, that's F-R-A-N-Z, you can get 15% off your first order on RegenceWellness.com.
(37:20):
Experience the power of mixing native wisdom with modern day science.
Do you have any guilty pleasures?
I have one.
Twerle.
Given that the average cafe-made milk tea has over 100 calories per serving, over 20
grams of high-glycemic sugar, and is packed with artificial flavors, I am so glad that
(37:40):
the guilty days are over with Twerle, the world's first canned plant-based milk tea.
With only 45 to 50 calories per serving and containing 6 to 7 grams of low-glycemic sweeteners,
Twerle is made with pea milk, the most sustainable plant-based milk on the market, regenerating
the soil where it comes from.
Fair trade and organic are the names of the game as the teas are sourced from biodiverse
(38:02):
family farms in China, Japan, and Taiwan that practice sustainable farming techniques.
No artificial flavors are ever used.
From four different flavors to ready-to-eat plant-based konjac and boba pearls, let's
enjoy tasty, creamy, shelf-stable, and healthy milk tea together for 10% off using the code
FRANZ10, that's F-R-A-N-Z, 1-0, on twirlmilktee.com.
(38:26):
Roll around and it's goodness.
Growing up, I was ashamed of my Asian heritage.
Classmates would comment about the lunch my grandma cooked, other kids would make fun
of my eyes, and even some adults today would tell me to go back to where I came from.
But where do I really belong?
Who really am I?
Am I not American enough?
(38:47):
Highlighting the year of the first documented arrival of Asian Americans in North America,
1587 Sneakers seeks to shine the spotlight on Asian American stories and demonstrate
to the world the extraordinary breadth of our passions and achievements.
Baited full-grain natural Italian leather by Faux-Weir Artisans, 100% biodegradable
natural rubber outsole, calf leather interior lining for comfort and good smells, and waxed
(39:13):
cotton laces for longer-lasting cleanliness, these premium sneakers combine the highest
quality, an array of timeless designs, and the movement to be authentically who you are.
With the code FRANCE15 that's lowercase FRANZ15, you can get 15% off your first order on 1587sneakers.com.
Step into embracing your identity without hiding, express yourself, and apologetically.
(39:45):
One thing that you just said was just so interesting to me was improving resilience, right?
And I think something that you've mentioned a lot so far is about stress and anxiety and
definitely something that you deal with is like neuropsychiatry, right?
And it makes me seem like the fields of psychiatry and psychology are like cousins with neuroscience.
So obviously they're all connected with the brain and all of that, but they seem to be
(40:08):
three very different disciplines.
But based on your experience in neuroscience, what have you seen about anxiety and depression
when it comes to whether the risk factors or anything that you can say about them in
regards to, I guess, the biological mechanism of the neuroscience in itself outside of obviously
(40:29):
the psych aspect of it?
Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack there, but yeah, psychiatry are technically different
just as neuroscience is different to psychiatry.
So I can only speak from the lens of neuroscience and not so much psychology.
In terms of anxiety, depression, again, all of these conditions have both genetic and
(40:53):
environmental factors.
In terms of brain, there are definitely specific circuits and regions that you see to be more
hyperactive in anxiety.
And the whole point, Mount Sinai is really big on resilience research.
How do you increase people's resilience against stress?
And so, I said, at least how we do that is we chronically stress the mice over time,
(41:18):
and then you study different interventions, things like environmental enrichment.
So if a mouse is being stressed daily, but after the stress, you're returning him to
a cage that has a room and some bedding and some pups, colleagues to play with.
Is he now more resilient to the depression that comes from chronic stress?
(41:38):
That's the kind of research that's done.
And also, once you've identified that mouse is anxious and you've identified the circuit
in the brain or the neurons that's associated with that, then you can try and look at what
dampens that as it or what calms it down.
But again, a lot of these conditions do have some sort of origin from either early life
factors during childhood and development.
(42:00):
You can inherit anxiety.
Again, there's genetic components.
I think some of the most interesting things that I've seen in terms of anxiety recently,
especially as it pertains to communities of color or communities that have gone through
traumatic history, is that anxiety and fear can be passed down through generations through
(42:21):
epigenetic.
And again, this is a very word that you probably heard buzzing around research of people like
Bianca Marlin at Columbia University is showing that this is really a thing that happens.
And so just to arm you with a bit of knowledge as to how that happens, like how you can pass
on anxiety from one generation to the next, your DNA is obviously wrapped around these
(42:43):
chromatin.
But what body needs to access the DNA to make a new protein, that chromatin has to kind
of open up to allow access to the DNA.
And so what epigenetics is, is changes not to the DNA itself, but to the chromatin structure.
And so what can happen is if you're constantly anxious and your body's constantly making
(43:05):
cortisol, it might happen that over time the epigenetics is such that the gene for cortisol
is easily accessible and open.
Pass that onto your kids.
They're now producing cortisol at a higher rate just because of epigenetically it was
modified.
So it's very interesting anxiety and they're increasing worldwide.
(43:28):
Things like loneliness are also increasing, which we think is a contributing factor to
anxiety and depression.
It's much research as to how we can improve it or address it really.
Yeah.
I mean, all of this are just very hard hitting facts and topics.
I mean, we talk a lot about the gut microbiome and the influences of everything when it comes
(43:52):
to the brains and the nerves.
What do you think is the best part or the most rewarding part about neuroscience for
you?
Honestly, for me, it's being able to explain or justify feeling certain things or behaving
in certain ways.
So calling myself a behavioral neuroscientist can sometimes be a double-edged sword in that
you're able to see things through a certain lens and perspective.
(44:15):
And I can convey that now through scientific terminology and explanation.
So that's what I like.
That's the most rewarding aspect for me of neuroscience is being able to provide a biological
explanation and terminology for everyday feelings and emotions and behaviors.
And the soothing aspect of that is once people understand something or once you understand
(44:36):
why you're feeling and behaving a certain way, it's the first step to curing that issue
or that behavior or feeling.
Yeah.
Wow.
That was beautiful.
I will really speak to that.
Yeah, I mean, you know, but despite all of the ability to put into words, like we said
earlier, there's still so much more to learn, so much more to discover and things that the
(44:58):
mind cannot fathom.
It's very so interesting that we're trying to study the mind, but even our own minds
cannot wrap against all of those things, right?
The mind is actually something completely different to the brain and neuroscience and
these hard facts of, you know, the synapse fires in the calcium.
(45:20):
All of that is very different to what is the mind, right?
And that's really now you're getting into cognitive neuroscience.
And those are the ones I look at and I'm like, yeah, I wouldn't want to do what you're doing.
So yeah, the cognitive neuroscience and the mind aspect of stuff.
But yeah, there's, there's a, it's a very new field.
Neuroscience is still a lot to find out.
You know, recently we're finding out the importance of the immune system in the brain and, you
(45:43):
know, we thought the brain was predominantly all neurons and, you know, neurons are really
what carry out the action.
But we actually have more immune cells called microglia and astrocytes in the brain that
kind of act like a support group to neurons and they like heal the neuron and look after
it.
And so now the whole, like I said, the neuroimmunology field is starting to bloom and it's like,
(46:06):
whoa, all right.
Another thing and another one.
And you know, like we said earlier, right, how can one not be neurotic after trying to
grasp the field of neuroscience, right?
And I think this leads us to the question of how do you separate yourself from all of
these tangles, no pun intended, tangles and tangles of information and expertise.
(46:31):
I mean, I touch on the fact that you're international fashion model, which I want to know how this
happens and how is that like Hannah Montana life between scientists and being a model,
but also in general, just like how do you separate yourself from this intricate and
complex world?
I want to say I've been seeing some of your modeling work as well as balance both fields
(46:55):
as well.
So thank you.
But honestly, I think when people ask me that question, I'm like, duh, of course I need
another outlet or something to like help balance.
I think most of my colleagues have some sort of, whether they play the guitar or, you know,
they're big nature people, they're out hiking, but you have to have a way of switching off.
(47:16):
I think the best word I've heard that explains it is when people say, I don't have the bandwidth.
There's days when like I have two brain cells that are functioning right now.
And so I'm very strict with myself when it comes to it, just because I know what I can
produce after I've switched off.
And so I do it with the greater good of producing better work in the coming days.
(47:37):
And so, you know, and we all know research is very tough.
You know, not only is it hard to understand conceptually, but when you're in the lab and
trying to have these experiments, that in itself is also a thing.
So you have to be kind to yourself.
You have to find ways to relax.
And, you know, whether that's me and you doing it through front of the camera or other ways,
(47:57):
it's definitely, you know, when I speak to trainees and young people coming up in the
field, they have to have protection mechanisms or relaxation mechanisms.
So my modeling actually started way before my science, not way before, but like, you
know, maybe three, but I think I always knew I didn't want to just do modeling because
first of all, looks fade.
And second, if you kind of have that platform, deliver something more than just an image,
(48:22):
right?
I like the image is really nice, like art.
But sometimes a bit of a deeper message can go a long way.
And so I think combining the two makes my science reach a bit further and reach communities
it wouldn't otherwise reach.
Yeah.
I mean, so beautiful.
I mean, an expertise of so many fields, honestly.
And well, Dr. I is just such an honor to have you on tonight.
(48:46):
I feel like you're so contagious.
Like, like, all of your knowledge is going my brain is like ready to explode right now.
I literally have to probably sit down for 30 minutes after our live and think about
everything that you just said.
And you know, now we're connected.
But yeah, like anything you're interested in reading about, you want me to send you
a review or maybe like anxiety and depression.
I'm happy to do that.
(49:07):
Yeah, Dr. Osmond, thank you so much.
I'm so happy this finally happened.
Such an honor.
And thank you so much again for coming on.
Have a really great evening.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.