February 2, 2024 • 51 mins
Who here lives to eat good food? According to Nature Medicine and the American Society for Nutrition, food is undeniably essential to both our physical and mental health. Beyond the nutrients we acquire from food alongside their ability to prevent and fight disease, certain foods can improve mood and result in the reduction of depressive symptoms. As for me, I know that I get super excited and happy about eating good food! This is even made better when I share a great meal with loved ones. Truly, food and eating are healing for yourself and others. In this episode, we meet an incredible guest who provides healing to others with his skillful hands, both in the kitchen and the hospital.
We are joined today by Chef AND Doctor Yoon Sung, family medicine physician and owner of Oksusu Restaurant. He received his BA in Public Health and Spanish from Johns Hopkins University, MHS in Clinical Epidemiology from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, MD from Drexel University College of Medicine, and Family Medicine Residency at Stanford Health Care. Dr. Yoon was also a Clinical Research Coordinator and Predoctoral Fellow at the Johns Hopkins Hospital Department of Otolaryngology and Center on Aging and Health. From serving and healing others' illnesses in clinic halls as an Urgent Care Supervising Physician at Carbon Health and UCLA Health, he now also serves and heals others through food and cooking in the kitchen. Chef Yoon is the owner-to-be and chef of Oksusu, a contemporary Korean-inspired restaurant that seeks to showcase the beauty of traditional Korean ingredients and the communal, family-style dining of Korean culture. He has also been the pastry chef at Hanchic and Red Room wine bar in Koreatown, Los Angeles. In 2013, he began his blog called 'Cooking With Yoon,' where he shares his journey from medicine to the culinary arts alongside gastronomic photographs and printable, budget-friendly recipes (some of which he created for his patients). Chef Dr. Yoon's work has been featured in the annual H Mart calendar, with his recipe video displayed in H Marts across the nation.
Livestream Air Date: April 19, 2023
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi friends, another Friday has dawned upon us, which means another Friends of Franz
(00:09):
Friday!
It's February already.
February.
The month of love.
The month where I still have no love life.
Hello.
But it's okay.
Our episode today is all about one thing that I'm always sure of.
It will be there for me when I'm both happy and sad.
It can always make me happy.
(00:30):
Will never leave me or leave me empty and hungry food.
I always get so excited and happy about eating good food.
Honestly, I live for food.
I live to eat.
She ate.
What's your favorite food?
Do you have a favorite dish or restaurant or perhaps something you cook?
I think one of my biggest mishaps in life is never enjoying how to cook or being more
(00:53):
passionate about learning how to cook.
I think it's because I always love trying out new restaurants in the city.
I mean, New York City is flooded.
Whatever cuisine you want, whatever avenue or street you find yourself in, there is always
something new to try.
And I love food so much.
I love discovering new food.
I love discovering new cuisines and tasting new things and trying out new flavors.
(01:15):
And one of my favorite areas in the city to eat?
K-town.
Koreatown, New York.
My second home at this rate.
Korean barbecue?
Korean fried chicken?
Galbi-tang?
Korean food has definitely been one of my go-to cuisines for the past few years.
Beyond the delicious flavors and homey feeling that it gives me, I am so amazed by the culture
(01:35):
and stories that they possess.
According to a 2019 Journal of Ethnic Foods article entitled Medicinal Food Understanding
in Korean Gachanami Culture, we are told of the countless health benefits that Korean
cuisine has been providing for centuries.
To keep the body warm and healthy, the Koreans have developed fermented foods like kimchi
that improve metabolism.
Korean gastronomy has been established in healthy food.
(01:58):
In fact, it says that Koreans do not eat food to become full.
Foods are prepared and consumed to be healthy in order to prevent diseases.
Something else interesting is that it is said that a traditional Korean table includes dishes
and garnishes formed by five colors that create the five elements.
Wood, fire, earth, metal, and water.
But beyond just the quality and taste of Korean cuisine, one beauty of the culture is the
(02:22):
communal, family-style aspect of Korean cuisine.
I mean, what better way to enjoy great food than sharing it with your loved ones?
It truly is healing.
Both figuratively and literally.
The reason they go into this deep dive of food and specifically the traditions of Korean
cuisine is because our expert guest for today's episode provides healing with his skilled
(02:42):
hands also both figuratively and literally.
We are joined today by the incredible Dr. Yoon Sung, a physician and day chef.
With an undergraduate degree in public health, a master's degree in clinical epidemiology,
a medical education and training in family medicine, Dr. Yoon has definitely shown his
passion for caring for others at the bedside, as he currently stands as an urgent care supervising
(03:05):
physician for carbon health and UCLA health.
But beyond the clinic and hospital halls, he takes off his white coat to don the apron,
where he provides another form of healing through cooking and serving others with delicious
food.
Chef Yoon is the owner to be and chef of Oksusu, a contemporary Korean-inspired restaurant
that seeks to showcase the beauty of traditional Korean ingredients and the communal, family-style
(03:28):
dining of Korean culture.
He is known online as Cooking with Yoon, based on his blog where he shares his journey from
medicine to the culinary arts alongside gastronomic photographs and printable, budget-friendly
recipes, some of which he has created for his patients.
Chef Dr. Yoon's work has been featured in the annual H-Mart calendar with his recipe
video displayed in stores across the nation.
(03:51):
Hear the story of the white coat and the apron.
Hello!
Hi!
Yay!
Thank you so much for joining me!
Thanks for having me.
Of course.
I've been so excited.
We've had different physicians come on.
One was a rock star, turned an icesiologist, yoga teacher, turned picky doctor, this turned
(04:16):
this doctor, and it's like, you need someone who knows how to cook.
It's so fitting and so right.
So thank you so much.
If you could first please introduce yourself to everybody.
Yeah, my name is Yoon.
I'm Yoon Sung, or Dr. Sung.
I'm in family medicine right now working in urgent care and also a chef.
Yeah, I mean, such an amazing mix of worlds.
(04:39):
I mean, no pun intended, but it's like a fusion, right?
Two different spheres, which we will dissect and talk about.
Again, thank you for joining me.
I wanted to first dive into your journey into medicine.
Where did this inspiration come from?
Is it family, friends, or personal experience?
Yeah, I mean, both of my parents are in medicine.
(05:02):
So my dad's a neurologist and then my mom, she's a nurse.
Now she works in hospital administration.
So I think since from a young age, they really pushed for medicine.
And so for a really long time, I've resisted because I'm the type that if someone tells
me to do something, I don't want to do it.
And then I went to college and I actually went to college undecided on my major.
(05:22):
And then during orientation, I went to all the different majors.
And then I discovered public health, which to me, that was like a really new concept.
But I was actually always really interested in international relations.
I wanted to work for the UN.
And I discovered this concept of public health where health is not just about disease, but
(05:44):
about socioeconomic factors that go into it.
And then about how important it is about global health and helping the underserved.
So then I kind of was like, you know, I think this actually might be the best major for
me.
And so even though I resisted for a long time, I decided to learn more about public health.
And then I think second year of college, I volunteered at a free health clinic.
(06:07):
And then I was like, this is it.
We serve patients for free at this free clinic.
And they were homeless patients and underserved patients.
And for me, it just like felt right in my gut where I was like, I think this is my calling.
And so even though I really wanted to resist for a long time, I kind of like I think public
health primary care is where I want to go.
And then even first year of med school, I worked with family physicians who provided
(06:31):
long term, you know, comprehensive care for underserved patients.
And then I was like, I think this is it.
And I never looked back, you know, I went on every rotation.
My first rotation was actually neurosurgery, which I loved.
I actually loved every single rotation.
But at the end of the day, family medicine was what stood out to me.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is the beauty with family medicine, right?
(06:52):
You get this like a bit of everything inculcated in this like internal medicine too, right?
Like you see from all different ages and from all different type of problems.
And I guess that fits that you enjoyed of your rotations in medical school.
I know you're talking about the resistance that you had at first going to medicine.
I think that's also just the fact that medicine is such a long and stressful road, right?
(07:16):
I mean, like, where is it?
Four years of undergrad and four years of med school and then however many years of
presidency or some choose to do fellowship and so much money involved and time and studying
parties you can go to, family occasions you can go to.
At the end of it all, do you have any regrets pursuing the field up to where you are now?
(07:38):
You know, I actually don't think once I truly like ever regretted it, I think I definitely
missed out on a lot of like weddings, family functions and, you know, so many events.
But I think in medical school, it was really hard where I think there was just like a such
a disconnect where especially like first two years where you're learning these like pre
(08:00):
clinical sciences.
I was like, what does this have to do with the patient I'm about to see?
But I think in residency, no matter how hard it was, I never once doubted my path.
And you know, there were definitely moments where I'm like, okay, I've been in school
training for like 10 years and then my friends that I graduated college with that have been
working in the finance or whatever for 10 years, like, there's so much ahead in like
(08:25):
life and finances than I am.
But I think despite that, like in residency, like as hard as it was, like I was always
with patients seeing patients and so it just like reaffirmed for me like the path that
I took.
So I don't know, I don't think I ever once truly regretted it.
You know, we all complained and we're all like, oh, what if but yeah, I think for me,
(08:45):
I never doubted my path.
Yeah, I think there's this meme that says like, I'll complain every second, but I won't
give up.
Yeah, I guess that encapsulates it.
And then like you said, you went into family medicine.
And I think family medicine has a lot of ties with public health too, right, which you drew
interest from.
But why specifically family medicine though, as opposed to like, I know public health is
(09:10):
its own specialty as well, right?
Yeah, I think for me, family medicine, there was just something about being able to like
see every age and every different specialty.
And like I was like, if I wanted to do culinary medicine and then also be able to, you know,
like work on like nutrition, prevention, counseling, then I was like family medicine is the best
specialty for me.
(09:31):
And then I've always also been really passionate about global health.
So I was like, if I want to be able to, you know, serve globally, I was like, family medicine
is what makes me the most useful.
So yeah, for that reason, that's kind of why I went into it.
And what do you think is the best part of being a physician or specifically a family
medicine physician?
I think for a family physician, like, so I worked, I guess, most recently abroad in like
(09:56):
underserved, like very rural area in South Africa, where I don't know, like 23% of the
population was HIV positive.
And it's a super rural area.
And it reaffirmed for me that family medicine was the right decision, at least for me, because
they were like, okay, doc, like, we can have you deliver babies, we can have you see HIV
patients, we can have you, I don't know, like help out with adults or like even in the EDs.
(10:20):
So they're like, we'll have you wherever you want.
And so I was just like, oh, just go wherever you want me to help out.
So I worked in the HIV clinic, like by myself, seeing patients.
So I think for me, it was like, where can I be the most useful?
And for me, like, if my calling is like, underserved populations, then this is what makes me the
most useful.
(10:40):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I mean, medicine itself is beautiful.
And you know, it's great to talk about.
But I really want to dive into the part that's very exciting for me is, I feel like this
mixture of worlds, I mean, in your world, specifically, of medicine and the culinary
arts, right?
I wanted to know where this inspiration now come from for cooking.
(11:04):
I mean, being a chef yourself, like, did it come before medicine or after?
I would say after.
I mean, I was always really interested in cooking.
My mom is actually a really good cook, but she never wanted me to like learn it.
So even when I was younger, like if my dad and my brother were out, like I would with
(11:26):
my mom, like if she's cooking, I would want to be in the kitchen and stuff.
But she's like, oh, you know, like men aren't supposed to cook.
Like she kind of, I don't know, wanted me to not be in the kitchen, but I would still
kind of watch from afar and observe.
So I was always really interested in cooking.
But it wasn't until after college that I finally actually had time to cook and also, you know,
(11:48):
just like develop a hobby.
And so because I was living in a food desert in Baltimore, that's when I actually had time
to sort of experiment and cook.
So I would say I was always pre-med and that was kind of like the primary, I guess, profession.
But then I sort of like took this detour and then I, again, kind of, even though I didn't
want to explore that side, I was like, oh, maybe I do have passion for it, a talent for
(12:12):
it in this field.
I would say the culinary came after, yeah.
After medicine.
And I guess it's also helpful, like during residency, you can cook for yourself, right?
Or if you had time to cook for yourself.
Well, residency, I honestly, I mostly ate at the hospital.
Like, I mean, residency, I would force myself to cook, like if I had a break to keep up
with the culinary skills.
(12:34):
But like, I was so tired, I was just going to eat at the hospital, even for dinner, just
going to buy food and then go home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, having found your love for cooking, you know, I guess, like you said, after medicine,
did you ever feel like you had to choose between the two?
Was there ever a moment where like, I can't be living like Hannah Montana where I'm like
(12:58):
a normal girl and then I'm a pop star at night?
Like did you ever have to choose between the, you felt like you had to choose between the
two fields?
Yeah.
I mean, I would say once I moved out here, I actually was like, I have to leave medicine
for a year or two.
And if I'm going to open up my own place, I can't really be working in medicine.
(13:19):
Right now I'm kind of doing half and half.
But yeah, I think, you know, because usually I think both are professions that sort of require
the totality of your being and like, I don't think it's really common or heard of to be
able to kind of juggle like a profession outside of medicine or culinary.
So yeah, that thing was like, I'm going to have to sacrifice one, but right now it's
(13:43):
like a hybrid model that's working.
But yeah, probably once I actually open up my own place, I do have to leave medicine
at least for a year.
Yeah.
I know we talked about regret going to medicine in itself and you said that you have no regrets,
but with now like cooking in the equation, is there regret to that in that regard where
(14:06):
it's like, oh, maybe I should have, I don't know.
Well, I guess you wouldn't have found out about cooking until after medicine, but did
you ever wish like, oh, I wish I discovered cooking earlier than medicine?
Oh yeah, it's definitely something I thought about.
I mean, I would say both in a way are a little bit delayed gratification, but I do think
that it's like a more formal path where it's like you have to spend 10, 12 years before
(14:27):
you can gratification, unfortunately.
I think in culinary, if you're good, if you're talented, if you're hardworking, there is
like, you have to work your way up, but it is, could be quicker.
So because these days, I think in the culinary industry, like not everyone has to go to like
a renowned culinary school.
Like you can work in certain restaurants and work your way up.
So I have thought about that a lot.
(14:48):
I was like, you know, now I'm a little bit older and like, if I had started cooking out
of high school, then I probably would have been much in a much better position than I
am now.
But I don't know.
But at the same time, I do think like I've worked really hard towards my medical degree
and it's something I'm passionate about.
And so in that sense, I think I don't have regrets because I think now I'm able to kind
(15:12):
of have the best of both worlds.
And you know, I think my career is just starting.
And so I am proud of the path that I've come, I guess, as long as as long and hard
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(18:31):
I'm curious if there's anything about medicine throughout the years that you spent studying
and training that you think adds flavor.
There's so many puns in this episode that adds to you being a chef or in the cooking
sphere.
Is there any aspect of being a doctor or medicine that supports that, whether it's personality
(18:54):
or skill or something?
And vice versa, I guess.
I think one of the similarities that the two fields have is I think they're very high-stress
fields and where you are on your feet for a really long time and really long hours.
So I think in one way, I think just being in a high-stress environment, even in medicine,
(19:16):
has helped me to deal with some of the stresses of being on the line when you're just getting
the weeds and getting a ton of tickets.
That is one thing.
But I think being a provider and seeing so many patients of different backgrounds and
socioeconomic backgrounds, I think helped me to relate to a lot of people.
So I think in the culinary industry, there's a lot of owners and then cooks or prep.
(19:41):
So there's a hierarchy of some sort.
But I have found that for me, no matter what role I'm in, even if I'm in more of a chef
role or even if some people view me more of a managerial role, I have found that because
I've worked with a lot of patients who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds or
certain cultures, I am able to establish rapport really easily with no matter who in the kitchen.
(20:04):
I think the kitchen is very, very like whoever wants to come work, if you can put in the
work like you're welcome and they hire you and you just have to prove your worth.
But sometimes it can be hard to establish rapport with people right away.
But I have found that for me, it's easy to establish rapport.
I think maybe because I've worked with a lot of different patients.
Definitely.
(20:25):
But I feel like another way that you mix the two worlds really well is I know that you
created recipes for patients before and you led clinics or cooking them.
Can you talk more about that?
Yeah, I mean, when I was applying to residency, I specifically was looking for a program that
would help me to support my culinary background as well.
(20:49):
So my residency program, my program director, when she interviewed me, was like, we can
definitely help take your culinary background to help our patients.
And she really held true to that.
Like throughout residency, I was able to hold cooking numbers for patients and we worked
in FQHC and then the main hospital where the family met program was that there was a county
(21:09):
hospital where we served a lot of Medi-Cal or homeless patients or uninsured patients.
So for me, I'm like, you know, I've lived in the food desert in Baltimore.
Like when you have a dollar to provide for your family, like why wouldn't you buy a bag
of chips over like an apple, you know, where it can provide so many more calories and provide
(21:30):
for so many people.
So for me, that was kind of the inspiration between, okay, let me create some recipes
that are healthy, but also cost effective, you know, easy for patients to make.
So yeah, that was kind of like my passion project throughout residency and that was
like one of the ways I could keep cooking.
Yeah, I mean, that's so true.
I did have an episode before with a nutritionist, a registered nutritionist, also a cardiologist.
(21:55):
And I mean, we were talking about how, I mean, I guess there's so many medical guidelines
on how to eat or what to eat that's healthy, right?
But then sometimes you don't take into account the atmosphere of the people we're telling
this to, right?
Like the socioeconomic status, we want them to get food served vegetables, but is there
actually a market nearby or are they living paycheck to paycheck and they cannot afford
(22:19):
these healthy meals or to cook these healthy meals, right?
And I think when it comes to like food sustainability and like socioeconomic status, it's such an
important topic that we don't really get to talk a lot about that I know that you talk
a lot about.
Can you share probably one dish that you think is very cost effective and also very healthy
(22:42):
as well?
Yeah, I think one thing I've really liked experimenting with is, you know, oats, everyone
thinks about oats as like more of a sweet dish like with brown sugar, cinnamon, things
like that.
So for me, I was like, well, oats can actually be a really good source of like fiber and
then healthy carbs, but there are ways to make it savory.
So in clinic, I did one with like, you know, just like vegetable stock and like butternut
(23:08):
squash and you know, like, so sort of like veggies and, you know, I've done like oatmeal
versions where it's more with like fried egg.
And so I think there's a lot of ways to make this like really nutritious ingredient savory
rather than just like a sweet breakfast.
Yeah, I love that.
I mean, I think also within the past few years, everyone's been about like, oats, oats, like
(23:30):
overnight oats.
Yeah, I mean, we've been talking a lot about, you know, the culinary field and within the
field is really it's all about like food, right?
I mean, I love food.
I love to eat.
I'll eat anything that's in front of me.
And when it comes to food, I want to share something that you stated before that is that
you believe in the therapeutic power of sharing a meal with loved ones.
(23:54):
And I think this is the crux of I mean, your work as a chef, right?
And just the whole culinary field in itself.
What this can explain more what that means to you that regarding the therapeutic power
of meal sharing?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's you know, I would say that even, you know, going centuries back,
(24:15):
I feel like food was the original medicine that kind of sustained our ancestors for centuries,
right?
And then I think even in historic times, there was always something about communal eating
where you like bring stuff and you gather together around the table.
And I think even though even growing up with families, like even if we didn't want to,
like there's something about just like coming together and sharing.
(24:38):
And so I think, I don't know, for me, I think there is something about, you know, even for
me, like when I've worked in like global health in like rural Argentina, rural South Africa,
where it's like even if I'm this like completely foreign country where I don't know anything
about the food or the culture, there's something about like my host family or like this, these
(25:01):
people that don't know me who invite me to their table.
And we just like gather together.
And then even if you can't communicate in like the language and you know, you pass around
the food around the table and there's something just so welcoming and healing about that.
I think no matter what situation or like where you are in life, like I think that's a good
(25:21):
universal factor.
So I think, yeah, there's something to be said about that.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I feel like there's just something about food that like connects everybody, right?
Or even if someone is in a new country and they're trying a food of that country, they'll
be like, oh, this kind of reminds me of my own cuisine from when I, I don't know, had
(25:44):
a meal with my family or that I used to grow up in.
And I think also with the sense of taste, right, or the smell or even the sight, it's
like brings so much memories.
I mean, I remember like if I eat some food, I'm like, oh, I used to eat this when I was
younger and it's just so reminiscent and so nostalgic.
And I guess you like you put all of that into, you know, the things that you create, which
(26:08):
I know you're a pastry chef at Hanchi in LA.
Can you tell me more about your work there?
Yeah, so right now I'm working with this restaurant called Hanchi in Koreatown.
So it was a restaurant that I remember when I first hopped up in in LA back in November.
And then I just found out that we had this like really similar shared vision of like
making more traditional Korean stuff approachable.
(26:31):
So then the opportunity came to join the team eventually.
And then, you know, they already had a chef in the sous chef, so I didn't want to kind
of like overstep their boundaries.
And so I was like, okay, I could bring like some desserts to the menu.
So that's how I came to join the team as a pastry chef.
Right now it's Hanchi is also sort of in this transition period where we're just doing like
(26:53):
monthly pop ups.
And so right now it's just me and Justin, the head chef, as a duo, just doing these
monthly pop ups.
And so yeah, like I don't just do the pastry, we like kind of come up with the whole menu
together.
But it's been this like really exciting thing where we're going through different venues
like all throughout LA and do the different menu each time.
(27:13):
So that's been really exciting.
Yeah.
What do you think would be your go to pastry that you've made so far?
Go to pastry?
I mean, you know, I kind of dabble in I guess, all pastries.
But I do think for me, like one of my favorite things to make is like, you know, layer cakes.
(27:34):
And I think because cakes can be so versatile and adaptable to like whatever person that
I'm making the cake for.
And so I just really like the versatility of it and like how cakes are centered around
celebration.
So even if it's like just for fun, like me gifting a person, like it's very celebratory.
(27:55):
And I don't know, so within pastry cakes have always been my love and always will be.
And I think they're just as much work as they are.
I think it's so fun to make and something really celebratory about.
Yeah, I can make it your own design and like whatever layers it is or different colors
or if you put fruits.
(28:15):
I mean, I'm such a dessert person.
I am basically like salivating right now because I have such a sweet tooth.
Sometimes I'll go out and even if I don't have like actual meals, as long as I have
dessert, you can find me there.
And aside from Huncheck, I know that you are the owner to be of Oksusu restaurants, which
(28:39):
I know is previously called Nanu.
Can you tell us more about the vision and like where did this idea come from?
Yeah, I mean, I was like, you know, when I left the culinary industry, I was like, eventually
I'm going to come back to it one day.
And I was like, well, now that I finished residency and I can always practice medicine whenever
I want, I was like, this is now the time to return to the culinary industry.
(29:04):
And so last year I was, I did a Kickstarter.
I was very fortunate to reach the goal.
And then so yeah, that's when they kind of put out my Kickstarter and restaurant idea
where, yeah, this was called Nanu, which means sharing in Korean, but then there was like
a little bit of a name complex so that I had to change it to Oksusu, which means corn in
(29:24):
Korean.
So I think it's very multi-faceted.
So I think corn is like a very humble but very versatile ingredient.
So I think every culture has some kind of like, you know, corn dish or component.
And then corn is also a very beloved ingredient in Korean cuisine.
And so for me, I was like, okay, like even when people come to eat Oksusu, like even
(29:47):
if they're completely unfamiliar with Korean cuisine, I want them to be able to find some
ingredient or element that's familiar to them.
And so I want it to be a very welcoming, inclusive space.
And I think like the restaurant idea for like what I want it to be has evolved over time.
But I think ultimately, I probably am leaning towards opening just like a wine bar and having
(30:14):
it be a space, like I said, is very welcoming and then have some shareable plates that people
can just like come and have a good time with their friends.
But yeah, that's kind of what I'm leaning towards.
I feel like especially the past few years, I mean, Korean food has become more mainstream,
right, and it's taken over the world.
But I think for the most part, I guess those who are non-Koreans, I think what really comes
(30:38):
to mind when it comes to Korean food is like Korean barbecue, right, or kkukki, or bulgogi,
or you know, the famous desserts, right?
But I know from me watching K-dramas and all of that, there's an array and my friends who
are Korean, there's an array of different delicacies and dishes and traditional foods,
(31:01):
you know, within the Korean culture, right?
With Aksu, what do you hope to bring to the world when it comes to Korean food that's
outside of, again, the mainstream Korean barbecue and desserts?
Yeah, I think there's just like certain ingredients and like dishes that I grew up with that I
love and I want people to know more about.
(31:24):
Like outside of the ingredient I'm really passionate about, like perilla, which is like
a leaf similar to shiso, but when people go get Korean barbecue, a lot of times they get
it but they don't know what it's called or like what other things can do with it, or
like doenjang, which is similar to miso, but like a Korean soybean paste.
So I think for me, it's about making those traditional ingredients like more approachable.
(31:47):
So for Aksu, it's like that's one of the main missions.
Like even if it's like one ingredient that someone who doesn't know about it learns about,
like that's what my goal would be.
Yeah, I mean outside of ingredients, is there food or a dish that you ate growing up that
you hope the world will get to know more, even if it's outside of your menu?
(32:11):
Yeah, I mean, I would say one of the items that I grew up eating that's like a comfort
food and probably like some sort of it would be on the menu is like something called dakdoritang,
which is like a spicy Korean like chicken stew.
It has like potatoes and it has like a gochujang kind of like braised sauce.
(32:34):
And I don't know, it was just one of those dishes.
It's not like, you know, really fancy dish or something, but it's one dish that my mom
would make time to time growing up.
And it's something that was always comforting to me just with like, served with white rice,
it's like a very comforting stew.
So I would like to have some sort of that on the menu.
Yeah, that's exciting.
(32:55):
Oh my gosh.
You know, I think also when it comes to, you know, Korean food being mainstream or being
more well known around the world, right?
I think social media is a lot to play with that, right?
Especially TikTok.
I mean, I'll be scrolling on TikTok and I'm like, oh, someone's eating a spicy raw marinated
(33:17):
crab and it would be something that maybe some people would be unthinkable of eating
or trying, right?
But because of TikTok, they're like, oh, I want to try this now.
And then you'll see everyone like making tutorials of how to make this or eating that.
How do you think social media will impact the culinary world, which is very, you know,
(33:42):
tangible and very physical in the years to come?
It's hard to say, right?
I mean, I think social media is really powerful and it has capacity to do a lot.
I think in a way, probably it will bring more attention to certain traditional foods.
Like outside of just Korean, very traditional things that only people of that ethnicity
(34:06):
or culture might know about.
I think there's a way to make that more accessible.
And so I think if culinary people can use it to their advantage or if influencers, whatever
can help to do that, then I think there's a lot of good ways it can be used.
Yeah.
And I think one of those like trying different foods, right?
And things that they might not think they will like.
(34:27):
I was watching a TV show, I think yesterday, and it was about two chefs and it's a drama.
And then they were in the fish market and then one of the chef was like, oh, I don't
eat raw fish.
And then the other chef was like, you can't call yourself a chef if you're not open to
trying other foods.
So for you, is there one food that or one ingredient that you have been tried and you
(34:49):
don't think you can try?
I don't know.
I think when I talk to my friends who are from China or going to traditional Chinese
place, I think song traditional stuff, like, not traditional, but like, you know, Chinese
work is like the cats or certain like eyeballs, things like that.
(35:14):
I don't know.
Like, I feel like as a chef, I should try those things once, but.
So is it true as a chef, you have to be able to?
I think it's like for your paladins, like to learn, like you should.
There's certain things where I'm like, okay, not trying.
Or is there something that you've tried once that you're like, enough is enough?
(35:39):
You know, you know, actually, you know, I think I have been pretty open.
I would say I'll say like, you know, not our generation, but like our parents' generation.
I think in Korea, like dog was a little bit more common.
So when I was like nine, I had the soup that I really liked.
And then my dad said it was a chicken soup.
(36:00):
And then like two hours later, he told me that I had eaten a dog.
And I was like, what?
I felt so sick.
But so that's one thing I tried that I would be happy never to eat again.
I have to be honest, the same thing happened to me.
There was this stew in the Philippines and I was eating.
I was like, wow, this is so good.
(36:21):
I want to try this again.
They were like, yeah, it's, you know, it's a rare kind of chicken.
I was like, hmm, a rare kind of chicken.
Only to find out the same thing.
And you are right.
Is there a part that I was ashamed about?
I was like, I really enjoyed it.
I was like, it's a really great chicken soup.
And then, yeah.
(36:41):
For me, though, I think one thing that I have tried that I may not be opposed to trying
again is fried frog.
For me, it's not even the shape of a frog.
I've had it like two or three times.
Like I get it.
It does taste like chicken.
But I know it's not my favorite thing to eat.
I feel like if no one tells me that it's frog.
(37:03):
Yeah, if it's not in the shape.
If it's not in the shape.
Yeah, I think I can handle that.
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Is there a food that you always long for?
Like comfort food?
I guess, it's a comfort food.
(40:18):
I would say like one of my favorite foods and then like a comfort food for me that is
a little bit like less accessible is, I don't know if you've ever had kalbi jjim, but it's
like braised short ribs, but my mom makes a really good kalbi jjim and so every time
I go home, like, you know, she always makes it for me and my brother.
And so I would say that's like one food that I crave because I think to get it in restaurants
(40:41):
is a little bit expensive and then for me, I always like going home.
So yeah, that would be one of the foods that I would always crave.
Aside from eating now, which I can talk forever about, cooking in itself, if you could summarize
your whole life or journey thus far as one dish, whether it's already existent or something
(41:06):
that you will make on the spot, what do you think is a dish that kind of gives a symbolism
to your journey?
Honestly, like, even though it's like now everyone who's not Korean knows this like
this quote unquote, but I would have to say like just a table of Korean barbecue.
I mean, I think it's popular for a reason and I think, I mean, for me too, I love it
(41:29):
for a reason.
It's because for me, it's like a really good way to introduce people who are not familiar
with the cuisine or Korean culture to come to the table and be like, okay, here's the
meat, here's the veggies, here's the condiments, here's the stew.
There's just like so many components that come together, including even like, you know,
soju and so for me, I think to summarize my life in one dish, it would be like a table
(41:55):
of Korean barbecue because I think it's like all of these like components, I think came
together and all of these people helped support my journey to get to where I am today.
And so yeah, I think for me, it's like the best of all worlds coming together.
Yeah, and who doesn't love Korean barbecue, right?
(42:16):
And now mixing it all together, you know, the world of medicine and culinary arts, for
sure you've met so many patients in your career thus far, right?
Who I guess you obviously cared for and grew a relationship with, right?
And if there is one dish that you could make or cook for a dear patient who may be ready
(42:41):
to go in life at the end of the road, what would be that dish and why?
Yeah, so I think that's a really tough question.
I think I've seen a lot of patients, you know, end of life and you know, a lot of like
goals of care discussions where it's like, you know, if they eat, they could aspirate,
but like I've seen so many patients where I actually ran into this where it's like,
(43:05):
okay, you could choke, you could die, you could aspirate, but like, do you want to do
comfort feeds or like, is there something you would like to eat?
And then I think every patient does have a specific dish that they create as their comfort
food.
And so I guess I can't dictate like what one dish it would be, but I think I would talk
(43:25):
with each patient and be like, okay, what would be your dish?
How did your relatives or how did you make it?
And then I would try to customize it for each person because I think as your last meal,
you know, you deserve to go out with something that, you know, brings you to, you know, memories
of Korea.
And so I think it's a very personalized.
(43:46):
Yeah, I guess it's like, like I said, right, food brings nostalgia and I guess it's like
time to not for them and things that's comfortable for them.
I can't imagine how stressful life and work has been as a physician and also as a chef
now.
Are there things that you do outside of those fields that serve as your decompression?
(44:07):
Any hobbies or anything like that?
Yeah, hobbies.
I mean, I really love hiking.
I think within LA, there's so many beautiful places to hike.
I love reading.
I don't know.
I mean, sometimes it just involves like me just vegetating, watching Netflix and decompressing.
And then yeah, other times just like, I think just like hanging out with loved ones and
(44:30):
just like sipping on wine and decompressing.
Yeah.
I would say those are kind of like the biggest things and then recently, like I've started
using Headspace, which I would tell patients all the time, like, oh yeah, like work on
your sleep hygiene and try using calm or Headspace.
But I've never personally used it myself, but I feel like the last couple of weeks I've
(44:51):
had like insomnia where I'm like, oh my gosh, I cannot sleep and Headspace actually legitimately
works.
So I've started using that and like meditating more.
Yeah.
I mean, in times of also where you can't sleep, do you also find yourself like watching videos
or going to a rabbit hole on YouTube or anything like that?
For me, when I can't sleep, I don't use electronics.
(45:11):
So I'm like, I know in my mind that's going to worsen it.
So I'm like, like, let's just, I don't know, like get up, do something, try to be or yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious as a chef, do you also watch cooking shows as well?
That's funny.
Like, I think, you know, when I was not in the industry for a long time, I mean, I love
cooking shows.
I mean, I would say whether I'm in the industry or not, I love Top Chef, like Top Chef, like
(45:36):
I would always love those.
But I do think more and more I'm back in the kitchen, like I have no interest in cooking
shows.
And I don't know, a lot of people are like, oh, as a chef, you must take like gourmet
meals.
But actually like most chefs, like you just want to come home and sleep or like eat like
a piece of toast.
Like, you know, I think most chefs don't cook elaborate meals at home.
(45:58):
Yeah.
And I think it's just like, it's similar to medicine, right?
Like, I mean, I'll read like medical journals and stuff, but personally, I will not read
like medical, not fiction like ever.
I'm like, why would I spend time doing that?
Like more medicine, you know, so for me, I have all of our like fiction, like, you know,
poetry or whatever, but I will not read medical books.
(46:20):
Yeah.
I mean, my mom's been a nurse for like over 30 years and she just recently retired too.
And there was one time I was like, oh, you want to watch this new movie?
It's about this nurse, blah, blah, blah.
And she's like, I have no intention of watching anything about the hospital after.
What zero medical shows, honestly.
Honestly, I don't think I've ever watched grace and that as well.
(46:44):
I just can't do it.
You know, it's been so great during your journey about not only medicine, but you know, being
a chef in the culinary arts and it's just a beautiful story of like just service, right?
And two different arenas where it seems to be so different, right?
(47:05):
I mean, you're both serving people, but in different ways, like you're serving them clinically
as a physician and then also serving them food, you know, which gives a lot of feel
good feelings and, you know, nostalgia and also discovery of different dishes and stuff.
There's someone out there, whether it's a kid or a teen or a young adult who maybe also
(47:29):
caught in the dilemma of, oh, I want to be a physician, but I also love to cook and maybe
this is the path I want to take.
What would be your message for that person?
Well, I would say like, this is just like for anyone wanting to pursue the culinary
field or like thinking about like, I think it is.
(47:52):
I mean, medicine too, but it's such a difficult field and it's such a difficult like profession
to pursue.
Like I think everything we see on TV, it's so glorified and it looks great, but like,
you know, you're on your feet like 12, 14 hours, like you're washing dishes, like it's
really tough work.
And so I would say anyone who wants to be like, I want to be a chef or go into culinary,
(48:16):
like I would encourage them to like work in restaurants, see what it's actually like,
because it's not like being a home cook.
It's not about being passionate about cooking because, you know, you're going to be making
the same stuff over and over and over and, you know, like customers love that food, but
I think it's a very different thing.
So I think for both medicine too, right?
(48:38):
Like we always say you should shadow and see what it's like.
I think for culinary too, like it looks so glorified, but I think we have to really explore
and be like, is this what I want?
But I would also want to encourage them and say that like, you can do what you want and
you can pursue what you want and nobody can dictate what you're going to do with your
(49:02):
life.
Like, I mean, so many people in my path, even now, like, I think there are a lot of haters
in both fields who are like, okay, he hasn't worked in the kitchen that long or like he's
a doctor now, he's going to leave that field to do what.
So I think for me, it's like, I think people have followed my journey because I've always
(49:24):
been true to who I am.
So I would encourage people to just be like, just be open to opportunities.
I think whatever opportunity presents, like just be grateful and take advantage and work
as hard as you can.
And I think if something's meant to work out, it will.
If something's not meant to work out, it won't, but I think it's just about being yourself,
(49:45):
being open to opportunities and working hard and giving it all.
That would be my place.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And thank you again for sharing your journey with me.
When's the next pop up?
Actually, next pop up is next weekend.
So me and Justin, we literally right before did like five dishes, we photographed stuff.
(50:07):
Wait, because I'm going to be in Cali next week.
Oh, if you're in Cali.
Or the week after.
Wait, what is it only like a one day thing?
It's a three days at this wine bar in downtown LA.
Oh my god.
Next Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, why don't they follow me?
Yeah, if you can, otherwise, no worries.
There'll be more.
I think I'm arriving at LA like Saturday night next week.
Well, it could work.
We'll see.
(50:28):
Yeah.
Well, again, it's been such a great conversation talking about your journey.
I mean, it's really super inspiring and super making me hungry right now thinking about
all the food.
And thank you so much for joining me.
Thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, thank you so much.
I hope you get some rest tonight.
(50:49):
I know you made a lot of dishes.
Thank you.
Have a good night.
Bye.
Hi friends, another Friday has dawned upon us, which means another Friends of Franz
(00:09):
Friday!
It's February already.
February.
The month of love.
The month where I still have no love life.
Hello.
But it's okay.
Our episode today is all about one thing that I'm always sure of.
It will be there for me when I'm both happy and sad.
It can always make me happy.
(00:30):
Will never leave me or leave me empty and hungry food.
I always get so excited and happy about eating good food.
Honestly, I live for food.
I live to eat.
She ate.
What's your favorite food?
Do you have a favorite dish or restaurant or perhaps something you cook?
I think one of my biggest mishaps in life is never enjoying how to cook or being more
(00:53):
passionate about learning how to cook.
I think it's because I always love trying out new restaurants in the city.
I mean, New York City is flooded.
Whatever cuisine you want, whatever avenue or street you find yourself in, there is always
something new to try.
And I love food so much.
I love discovering new food.
I love discovering new cuisines and tasting new things and trying out new flavors.
(01:15):
And one of my favorite areas in the city to eat?
K-town.
Koreatown, New York.
My second home at this rate.
Korean barbecue?
Korean fried chicken?
Galbi-tang?
Korean food has definitely been one of my go-to cuisines for the past few years.
Beyond the delicious flavors and homey feeling that it gives me, I am so amazed by the culture
(01:35):
and stories that they possess.
According to a 2019 Journal of Ethnic Foods article entitled Medicinal Food Understanding
in Korean Gachanami Culture, we are told of the countless health benefits that Korean
cuisine has been providing for centuries.
To keep the body warm and healthy, the Koreans have developed fermented foods like kimchi
that improve metabolism.
Korean gastronomy has been established in healthy food.
(01:58):
In fact, it says that Koreans do not eat food to become full.
Foods are prepared and consumed to be healthy in order to prevent diseases.
Something else interesting is that it is said that a traditional Korean table includes dishes
and garnishes formed by five colors that create the five elements.
Wood, fire, earth, metal, and water.
But beyond just the quality and taste of Korean cuisine, one beauty of the culture is the
(02:22):
communal, family-style aspect of Korean cuisine.
I mean, what better way to enjoy great food than sharing it with your loved ones?
It truly is healing.
Both figuratively and literally.
The reason they go into this deep dive of food and specifically the traditions of Korean
cuisine is because our expert guest for today's episode provides healing with his skilled
(02:42):
hands also both figuratively and literally.
We are joined today by the incredible Dr. Yoon Sung, a physician and day chef.
With an undergraduate degree in public health, a master's degree in clinical epidemiology,
a medical education and training in family medicine, Dr. Yoon has definitely shown his
passion for caring for others at the bedside, as he currently stands as an urgent care supervising
(03:05):
physician for carbon health and UCLA health.
But beyond the clinic and hospital halls, he takes off his white coat to don the apron,
where he provides another form of healing through cooking and serving others with delicious
food.
Chef Yoon is the owner to be and chef of Oksusu, a contemporary Korean-inspired restaurant
that seeks to showcase the beauty of traditional Korean ingredients and the communal, family-style
(03:28):
dining of Korean culture.
He is known online as Cooking with Yoon, based on his blog where he shares his journey from
medicine to the culinary arts alongside gastronomic photographs and printable, budget-friendly
recipes, some of which he has created for his patients.
Chef Dr. Yoon's work has been featured in the annual H-Mart calendar with his recipe
video displayed in stores across the nation.
(03:51):
Hear the story of the white coat and the apron.
Hello!
Hi!
Yay!
Thank you so much for joining me!
Thanks for having me.
Of course.
I've been so excited.
We've had different physicians come on.
One was a rock star, turned an icesiologist, yoga teacher, turned picky doctor, this turned
(04:16):
this doctor, and it's like, you need someone who knows how to cook.
It's so fitting and so right.
So thank you so much.
If you could first please introduce yourself to everybody.
Yeah, my name is Yoon.
I'm Yoon Sung, or Dr. Sung.
I'm in family medicine right now working in urgent care and also a chef.
Yeah, I mean, such an amazing mix of worlds.
(04:39):
I mean, no pun intended, but it's like a fusion, right?
Two different spheres, which we will dissect and talk about.
Again, thank you for joining me.
I wanted to first dive into your journey into medicine.
Where did this inspiration come from?
Is it family, friends, or personal experience?
Yeah, I mean, both of my parents are in medicine.
(05:02):
So my dad's a neurologist and then my mom, she's a nurse.
Now she works in hospital administration.
So I think since from a young age, they really pushed for medicine.
And so for a really long time, I've resisted because I'm the type that if someone tells
me to do something, I don't want to do it.
And then I went to college and I actually went to college undecided on my major.
(05:22):
And then during orientation, I went to all the different majors.
And then I discovered public health, which to me, that was like a really new concept.
But I was actually always really interested in international relations.
I wanted to work for the UN.
And I discovered this concept of public health where health is not just about disease, but
(05:44):
about socioeconomic factors that go into it.
And then about how important it is about global health and helping the underserved.
So then I kind of was like, you know, I think this actually might be the best major for
me.
And so even though I resisted for a long time, I decided to learn more about public health.
And then I think second year of college, I volunteered at a free health clinic.
(06:07):
And then I was like, this is it.
We serve patients for free at this free clinic.
And they were homeless patients and underserved patients.
And for me, it just like felt right in my gut where I was like, I think this is my calling.
And so even though I really wanted to resist for a long time, I kind of like I think public
health primary care is where I want to go.
And then even first year of med school, I worked with family physicians who provided
(06:31):
long term, you know, comprehensive care for underserved patients.
And then I was like, I think this is it.
And I never looked back, you know, I went on every rotation.
My first rotation was actually neurosurgery, which I loved.
I actually loved every single rotation.
But at the end of the day, family medicine was what stood out to me.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is the beauty with family medicine, right?
(06:52):
You get this like a bit of everything inculcated in this like internal medicine too, right?
Like you see from all different ages and from all different type of problems.
And I guess that fits that you enjoyed of your rotations in medical school.
I know you're talking about the resistance that you had at first going to medicine.
I think that's also just the fact that medicine is such a long and stressful road, right?
(07:16):
I mean, like, where is it?
Four years of undergrad and four years of med school and then however many years of
presidency or some choose to do fellowship and so much money involved and time and studying
parties you can go to, family occasions you can go to.
At the end of it all, do you have any regrets pursuing the field up to where you are now?
(07:38):
You know, I actually don't think once I truly like ever regretted it, I think I definitely
missed out on a lot of like weddings, family functions and, you know, so many events.
But I think in medical school, it was really hard where I think there was just like a such
a disconnect where especially like first two years where you're learning these like pre
(08:00):
clinical sciences.
I was like, what does this have to do with the patient I'm about to see?
But I think in residency, no matter how hard it was, I never once doubted my path.
And you know, there were definitely moments where I'm like, okay, I've been in school
training for like 10 years and then my friends that I graduated college with that have been
working in the finance or whatever for 10 years, like, there's so much ahead in like
(08:25):
life and finances than I am.
But I think despite that, like in residency, like as hard as it was, like I was always
with patients seeing patients and so it just like reaffirmed for me like the path that
I took.
So I don't know, I don't think I ever once truly regretted it.
You know, we all complained and we're all like, oh, what if but yeah, I think for me,
(08:45):
I never doubted my path.
Yeah, I think there's this meme that says like, I'll complain every second, but I won't
give up.
Yeah, I guess that encapsulates it.
And then like you said, you went into family medicine.
And I think family medicine has a lot of ties with public health too, right, which you drew
interest from.
But why specifically family medicine though, as opposed to like, I know public health is
(09:10):
its own specialty as well, right?
Yeah, I think for me, family medicine, there was just something about being able to like
see every age and every different specialty.
And like I was like, if I wanted to do culinary medicine and then also be able to, you know,
like work on like nutrition, prevention, counseling, then I was like family medicine is the best
specialty for me.
(09:31):
And then I've always also been really passionate about global health.
So I was like, if I want to be able to, you know, serve globally, I was like, family medicine
is what makes me the most useful.
So yeah, for that reason, that's kind of why I went into it.
And what do you think is the best part of being a physician or specifically a family
medicine physician?
I think for a family physician, like, so I worked, I guess, most recently abroad in like
(09:56):
underserved, like very rural area in South Africa, where I don't know, like 23% of the
population was HIV positive.
And it's a super rural area.
And it reaffirmed for me that family medicine was the right decision, at least for me, because
they were like, okay, doc, like, we can have you deliver babies, we can have you see HIV
patients, we can have you, I don't know, like help out with adults or like even in the EDs.
(10:20):
So they're like, we'll have you wherever you want.
And so I was just like, oh, just go wherever you want me to help out.
So I worked in the HIV clinic, like by myself, seeing patients.
So I think for me, it was like, where can I be the most useful?
And for me, like, if my calling is like, underserved populations, then this is what makes me the
most useful.
(10:40):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
I mean, medicine itself is beautiful.
And you know, it's great to talk about.
But I really want to dive into the part that's very exciting for me is, I feel like this
mixture of worlds, I mean, in your world, specifically, of medicine and the culinary
arts, right?
I wanted to know where this inspiration now come from for cooking.
(11:04):
I mean, being a chef yourself, like, did it come before medicine or after?
I would say after.
I mean, I was always really interested in cooking.
My mom is actually a really good cook, but she never wanted me to like learn it.
So even when I was younger, like if my dad and my brother were out, like I would with
(11:26):
my mom, like if she's cooking, I would want to be in the kitchen and stuff.
But she's like, oh, you know, like men aren't supposed to cook.
Like she kind of, I don't know, wanted me to not be in the kitchen, but I would still
kind of watch from afar and observe.
So I was always really interested in cooking.
But it wasn't until after college that I finally actually had time to cook and also, you know,
(11:48):
just like develop a hobby.
And so because I was living in a food desert in Baltimore, that's when I actually had time
to sort of experiment and cook.
So I would say I was always pre-med and that was kind of like the primary, I guess, profession.
But then I sort of like took this detour and then I, again, kind of, even though I didn't
want to explore that side, I was like, oh, maybe I do have passion for it, a talent for
(12:12):
it in this field.
I would say the culinary came after, yeah.
After medicine.
And I guess it's also helpful, like during residency, you can cook for yourself, right?
Or if you had time to cook for yourself.
Well, residency, I honestly, I mostly ate at the hospital.
Like, I mean, residency, I would force myself to cook, like if I had a break to keep up
with the culinary skills.
(12:34):
But like, I was so tired, I was just going to eat at the hospital, even for dinner, just
going to buy food and then go home.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, having found your love for cooking, you know, I guess, like you said, after medicine,
did you ever feel like you had to choose between the two?
Was there ever a moment where like, I can't be living like Hannah Montana where I'm like
(12:58):
a normal girl and then I'm a pop star at night?
Like did you ever have to choose between the, you felt like you had to choose between the
two fields?
Yeah.
I mean, I would say once I moved out here, I actually was like, I have to leave medicine
for a year or two.
And if I'm going to open up my own place, I can't really be working in medicine.
(13:19):
Right now I'm kind of doing half and half.
But yeah, I think, you know, because usually I think both are professions that sort of require
the totality of your being and like, I don't think it's really common or heard of to be
able to kind of juggle like a profession outside of medicine or culinary.
So yeah, that thing was like, I'm going to have to sacrifice one, but right now it's
(13:43):
like a hybrid model that's working.
But yeah, probably once I actually open up my own place, I do have to leave medicine
at least for a year.
Yeah.
I know we talked about regret going to medicine in itself and you said that you have no regrets,
but with now like cooking in the equation, is there regret to that in that regard where
(14:06):
it's like, oh, maybe I should have, I don't know.
Well, I guess you wouldn't have found out about cooking until after medicine, but did
you ever wish like, oh, I wish I discovered cooking earlier than medicine?
Oh yeah, it's definitely something I thought about.
I mean, I would say both in a way are a little bit delayed gratification, but I do think
that it's like a more formal path where it's like you have to spend 10, 12 years before
(14:27):
you can gratification, unfortunately.
I think in culinary, if you're good, if you're talented, if you're hardworking, there is
like, you have to work your way up, but it is, could be quicker.
So because these days, I think in the culinary industry, like not everyone has to go to like
a renowned culinary school.
Like you can work in certain restaurants and work your way up.
So I have thought about that a lot.
(14:48):
I was like, you know, now I'm a little bit older and like, if I had started cooking out
of high school, then I probably would have been much in a much better position than I
am now.
But I don't know.
But at the same time, I do think like I've worked really hard towards my medical degree
and it's something I'm passionate about.
And so in that sense, I think I don't have regrets because I think now I'm able to kind
(15:12):
of have the best of both worlds.
And you know, I think my career is just starting.
And so I am proud of the path that I've come, I guess, as long as as long and hard
as it has been.
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(18:31):
I'm curious if there's anything about medicine throughout the years that you spent studying
and training that you think adds flavor.
There's so many puns in this episode that adds to you being a chef or in the cooking
sphere.
Is there any aspect of being a doctor or medicine that supports that, whether it's personality
(18:54):
or skill or something?
And vice versa, I guess.
I think one of the similarities that the two fields have is I think they're very high-stress
fields and where you are on your feet for a really long time and really long hours.
So I think in one way, I think just being in a high-stress environment, even in medicine,
(19:16):
has helped me to deal with some of the stresses of being on the line when you're just getting
the weeds and getting a ton of tickets.
That is one thing.
But I think being a provider and seeing so many patients of different backgrounds and
socioeconomic backgrounds, I think helped me to relate to a lot of people.
So I think in the culinary industry, there's a lot of owners and then cooks or prep.
(19:41):
So there's a hierarchy of some sort.
But I have found that for me, no matter what role I'm in, even if I'm in more of a chef
role or even if some people view me more of a managerial role, I have found that because
I've worked with a lot of patients who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds or
certain cultures, I am able to establish rapport really easily with no matter who in the kitchen.
(20:04):
I think the kitchen is very, very like whoever wants to come work, if you can put in the
work like you're welcome and they hire you and you just have to prove your worth.
But sometimes it can be hard to establish rapport with people right away.
But I have found that for me, it's easy to establish rapport.
I think maybe because I've worked with a lot of different patients.
Definitely.
(20:25):
But I feel like another way that you mix the two worlds really well is I know that you
created recipes for patients before and you led clinics or cooking them.
Can you talk more about that?
Yeah, I mean, when I was applying to residency, I specifically was looking for a program that
would help me to support my culinary background as well.
(20:49):
So my residency program, my program director, when she interviewed me, was like, we can
definitely help take your culinary background to help our patients.
And she really held true to that.
Like throughout residency, I was able to hold cooking numbers for patients and we worked
in FQHC and then the main hospital where the family met program was that there was a county
(21:09):
hospital where we served a lot of Medi-Cal or homeless patients or uninsured patients.
So for me, I'm like, you know, I've lived in the food desert in Baltimore.
Like when you have a dollar to provide for your family, like why wouldn't you buy a bag
of chips over like an apple, you know, where it can provide so many more calories and provide
(21:30):
for so many people.
So for me, that was kind of the inspiration between, okay, let me create some recipes
that are healthy, but also cost effective, you know, easy for patients to make.
So yeah, that was kind of like my passion project throughout residency and that was
like one of the ways I could keep cooking.
Yeah, I mean, that's so true.
I did have an episode before with a nutritionist, a registered nutritionist, also a cardiologist.
(21:55):
And I mean, we were talking about how, I mean, I guess there's so many medical guidelines
on how to eat or what to eat that's healthy, right?
But then sometimes you don't take into account the atmosphere of the people we're telling
this to, right?
Like the socioeconomic status, we want them to get food served vegetables, but is there
actually a market nearby or are they living paycheck to paycheck and they cannot afford
(22:19):
these healthy meals or to cook these healthy meals, right?
And I think when it comes to like food sustainability and like socioeconomic status, it's such an
important topic that we don't really get to talk a lot about that I know that you talk
a lot about.
Can you share probably one dish that you think is very cost effective and also very healthy
(22:42):
as well?
Yeah, I think one thing I've really liked experimenting with is, you know, oats, everyone
thinks about oats as like more of a sweet dish like with brown sugar, cinnamon, things
like that.
So for me, I was like, well, oats can actually be a really good source of like fiber and
then healthy carbs, but there are ways to make it savory.
So in clinic, I did one with like, you know, just like vegetable stock and like butternut
(23:08):
squash and you know, like, so sort of like veggies and, you know, I've done like oatmeal
versions where it's more with like fried egg.
And so I think there's a lot of ways to make this like really nutritious ingredient savory
rather than just like a sweet breakfast.
Yeah, I love that.
I mean, I think also within the past few years, everyone's been about like, oats, oats, like
(23:30):
overnight oats.
Yeah, I mean, we've been talking a lot about, you know, the culinary field and within the
field is really it's all about like food, right?
I mean, I love food.
I love to eat.
I'll eat anything that's in front of me.
And when it comes to food, I want to share something that you stated before that is that
you believe in the therapeutic power of sharing a meal with loved ones.
(23:54):
And I think this is the crux of I mean, your work as a chef, right?
And just the whole culinary field in itself.
What this can explain more what that means to you that regarding the therapeutic power
of meal sharing?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's you know, I would say that even, you know, going centuries back,
(24:15):
I feel like food was the original medicine that kind of sustained our ancestors for centuries,
right?
And then I think even in historic times, there was always something about communal eating
where you like bring stuff and you gather together around the table.
And I think even though even growing up with families, like even if we didn't want to,
like there's something about just like coming together and sharing.
(24:38):
And so I think, I don't know, for me, I think there is something about, you know, even for
me, like when I've worked in like global health in like rural Argentina, rural South Africa,
where it's like even if I'm this like completely foreign country where I don't know anything
about the food or the culture, there's something about like my host family or like this, these
(25:01):
people that don't know me who invite me to their table.
And we just like gather together.
And then even if you can't communicate in like the language and you know, you pass around
the food around the table and there's something just so welcoming and healing about that.
I think no matter what situation or like where you are in life, like I think that's a good
(25:21):
universal factor.
So I think, yeah, there's something to be said about that.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I feel like there's just something about food that like connects everybody, right?
Or even if someone is in a new country and they're trying a food of that country, they'll
be like, oh, this kind of reminds me of my own cuisine from when I, I don't know, had
(25:44):
a meal with my family or that I used to grow up in.
And I think also with the sense of taste, right, or the smell or even the sight, it's
like brings so much memories.
I mean, I remember like if I eat some food, I'm like, oh, I used to eat this when I was
younger and it's just so reminiscent and so nostalgic.
And I guess you like you put all of that into, you know, the things that you create, which
(26:08):
I know you're a pastry chef at Hanchi in LA.
Can you tell me more about your work there?
Yeah, so right now I'm working with this restaurant called Hanchi in Koreatown.
So it was a restaurant that I remember when I first hopped up in in LA back in November.
And then I just found out that we had this like really similar shared vision of like
making more traditional Korean stuff approachable.
(26:31):
So then the opportunity came to join the team eventually.
And then, you know, they already had a chef in the sous chef, so I didn't want to kind
of like overstep their boundaries.
And so I was like, okay, I could bring like some desserts to the menu.
So that's how I came to join the team as a pastry chef.
Right now it's Hanchi is also sort of in this transition period where we're just doing like
(26:53):
monthly pop ups.
And so right now it's just me and Justin, the head chef, as a duo, just doing these
monthly pop ups.
And so yeah, like I don't just do the pastry, we like kind of come up with the whole menu
together.
But it's been this like really exciting thing where we're going through different venues
like all throughout LA and do the different menu each time.
(27:13):
So that's been really exciting.
Yeah.
What do you think would be your go to pastry that you've made so far?
Go to pastry?
I mean, you know, I kind of dabble in I guess, all pastries.
But I do think for me, like one of my favorite things to make is like, you know, layer cakes.
(27:34):
And I think because cakes can be so versatile and adaptable to like whatever person that
I'm making the cake for.
And so I just really like the versatility of it and like how cakes are centered around
celebration.
So even if it's like just for fun, like me gifting a person, like it's very celebratory.
(27:55):
And I don't know, so within pastry cakes have always been my love and always will be.
And I think they're just as much work as they are.
I think it's so fun to make and something really celebratory about.
Yeah, I can make it your own design and like whatever layers it is or different colors
or if you put fruits.
(28:15):
I mean, I'm such a dessert person.
I am basically like salivating right now because I have such a sweet tooth.
Sometimes I'll go out and even if I don't have like actual meals, as long as I have
dessert, you can find me there.
And aside from Huncheck, I know that you are the owner to be of Oksusu restaurants, which
(28:39):
I know is previously called Nanu.
Can you tell us more about the vision and like where did this idea come from?
Yeah, I mean, I was like, you know, when I left the culinary industry, I was like, eventually
I'm going to come back to it one day.
And I was like, well, now that I finished residency and I can always practice medicine whenever
I want, I was like, this is now the time to return to the culinary industry.
(29:04):
And so last year I was, I did a Kickstarter.
I was very fortunate to reach the goal.
And then so yeah, that's when they kind of put out my Kickstarter and restaurant idea
where, yeah, this was called Nanu, which means sharing in Korean, but then there was like
a little bit of a name complex so that I had to change it to Oksusu, which means corn in
(29:24):
Korean.
So I think it's very multi-faceted.
So I think corn is like a very humble but very versatile ingredient.
So I think every culture has some kind of like, you know, corn dish or component.
And then corn is also a very beloved ingredient in Korean cuisine.
And so for me, I was like, okay, like even when people come to eat Oksusu, like even
(29:47):
if they're completely unfamiliar with Korean cuisine, I want them to be able to find some
ingredient or element that's familiar to them.
And so I want it to be a very welcoming, inclusive space.
And I think like the restaurant idea for like what I want it to be has evolved over time.
But I think ultimately, I probably am leaning towards opening just like a wine bar and having
(30:14):
it be a space, like I said, is very welcoming and then have some shareable plates that people
can just like come and have a good time with their friends.
But yeah, that's kind of what I'm leaning towards.
I feel like especially the past few years, I mean, Korean food has become more mainstream,
right, and it's taken over the world.
But I think for the most part, I guess those who are non-Koreans, I think what really comes
(30:38):
to mind when it comes to Korean food is like Korean barbecue, right, or kkukki, or bulgogi,
or you know, the famous desserts, right?
But I know from me watching K-dramas and all of that, there's an array and my friends who
are Korean, there's an array of different delicacies and dishes and traditional foods,
(31:01):
you know, within the Korean culture, right?
With Aksu, what do you hope to bring to the world when it comes to Korean food that's
outside of, again, the mainstream Korean barbecue and desserts?
Yeah, I think there's just like certain ingredients and like dishes that I grew up with that I
love and I want people to know more about.
(31:24):
Like outside of the ingredient I'm really passionate about, like perilla, which is like
a leaf similar to shiso, but when people go get Korean barbecue, a lot of times they get
it but they don't know what it's called or like what other things can do with it, or
like doenjang, which is similar to miso, but like a Korean soybean paste.
So I think for me, it's about making those traditional ingredients like more approachable.
(31:47):
So for Aksu, it's like that's one of the main missions.
Like even if it's like one ingredient that someone who doesn't know about it learns about,
like that's what my goal would be.
Yeah, I mean outside of ingredients, is there food or a dish that you ate growing up that
you hope the world will get to know more, even if it's outside of your menu?
(32:11):
Yeah, I mean, I would say one of the items that I grew up eating that's like a comfort
food and probably like some sort of it would be on the menu is like something called dakdoritang,
which is like a spicy Korean like chicken stew.
It has like potatoes and it has like a gochujang kind of like braised sauce.
(32:34):
And I don't know, it was just one of those dishes.
It's not like, you know, really fancy dish or something, but it's one dish that my mom
would make time to time growing up.
And it's something that was always comforting to me just with like, served with white rice,
it's like a very comforting stew.
So I would like to have some sort of that on the menu.
Yeah, that's exciting.
(32:55):
Oh my gosh.
You know, I think also when it comes to, you know, Korean food being mainstream or being
more well known around the world, right?
I think social media is a lot to play with that, right?
Especially TikTok.
I mean, I'll be scrolling on TikTok and I'm like, oh, someone's eating a spicy raw marinated
(33:17):
crab and it would be something that maybe some people would be unthinkable of eating
or trying, right?
But because of TikTok, they're like, oh, I want to try this now.
And then you'll see everyone like making tutorials of how to make this or eating that.
How do you think social media will impact the culinary world, which is very, you know,
(33:42):
tangible and very physical in the years to come?
It's hard to say, right?
I mean, I think social media is really powerful and it has capacity to do a lot.
I think in a way, probably it will bring more attention to certain traditional foods.
Like outside of just Korean, very traditional things that only people of that ethnicity
(34:06):
or culture might know about.
I think there's a way to make that more accessible.
And so I think if culinary people can use it to their advantage or if influencers, whatever
can help to do that, then I think there's a lot of good ways it can be used.
Yeah.
And I think one of those like trying different foods, right?
And things that they might not think they will like.
(34:27):
I was watching a TV show, I think yesterday, and it was about two chefs and it's a drama.
And then they were in the fish market and then one of the chef was like, oh, I don't
eat raw fish.
And then the other chef was like, you can't call yourself a chef if you're not open to
trying other foods.
So for you, is there one food that or one ingredient that you have been tried and you
(34:49):
don't think you can try?
I don't know.
I think when I talk to my friends who are from China or going to traditional Chinese
place, I think song traditional stuff, like, not traditional, but like, you know, Chinese
work is like the cats or certain like eyeballs, things like that.
(35:14):
I don't know.
Like, I feel like as a chef, I should try those things once, but.
So is it true as a chef, you have to be able to?
I think it's like for your paladins, like to learn, like you should.
There's certain things where I'm like, okay, not trying.
Or is there something that you've tried once that you're like, enough is enough?
(35:39):
You know, you know, actually, you know, I think I have been pretty open.
I would say I'll say like, you know, not our generation, but like our parents' generation.
I think in Korea, like dog was a little bit more common.
So when I was like nine, I had the soup that I really liked.
And then my dad said it was a chicken soup.
(36:00):
And then like two hours later, he told me that I had eaten a dog.
And I was like, what?
I felt so sick.
But so that's one thing I tried that I would be happy never to eat again.
I have to be honest, the same thing happened to me.
There was this stew in the Philippines and I was eating.
I was like, wow, this is so good.
(36:21):
I want to try this again.
They were like, yeah, it's, you know, it's a rare kind of chicken.
I was like, hmm, a rare kind of chicken.
Only to find out the same thing.
And you are right.
Is there a part that I was ashamed about?
I was like, I really enjoyed it.
I was like, it's a really great chicken soup.
And then, yeah.
(36:41):
For me, though, I think one thing that I have tried that I may not be opposed to trying
again is fried frog.
For me, it's not even the shape of a frog.
I've had it like two or three times.
Like I get it.
It does taste like chicken.
But I know it's not my favorite thing to eat.
I feel like if no one tells me that it's frog.
(37:03):
Yeah, if it's not in the shape.
If it's not in the shape.
Yeah, I think I can handle that.
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Is there a food that you always long for?
Like comfort food?
I guess, it's a comfort food.
(40:18):
I would say like one of my favorite foods and then like a comfort food for me that is
a little bit like less accessible is, I don't know if you've ever had kalbi jjim, but it's
like braised short ribs, but my mom makes a really good kalbi jjim and so every time
I go home, like, you know, she always makes it for me and my brother.
And so I would say that's like one food that I crave because I think to get it in restaurants
(40:41):
is a little bit expensive and then for me, I always like going home.
So yeah, that would be one of the foods that I would always crave.
Aside from eating now, which I can talk forever about, cooking in itself, if you could summarize
your whole life or journey thus far as one dish, whether it's already existent or something
(41:06):
that you will make on the spot, what do you think is a dish that kind of gives a symbolism
to your journey?
Honestly, like, even though it's like now everyone who's not Korean knows this like
this quote unquote, but I would have to say like just a table of Korean barbecue.
I mean, I think it's popular for a reason and I think, I mean, for me too, I love it
(41:29):
for a reason.
It's because for me, it's like a really good way to introduce people who are not familiar
with the cuisine or Korean culture to come to the table and be like, okay, here's the
meat, here's the veggies, here's the condiments, here's the stew.
There's just like so many components that come together, including even like, you know,
soju and so for me, I think to summarize my life in one dish, it would be like a table
(41:55):
of Korean barbecue because I think it's like all of these like components, I think came
together and all of these people helped support my journey to get to where I am today.
And so yeah, I think for me, it's like the best of all worlds coming together.
Yeah, and who doesn't love Korean barbecue, right?
(42:16):
And now mixing it all together, you know, the world of medicine and culinary arts, for
sure you've met so many patients in your career thus far, right?
Who I guess you obviously cared for and grew a relationship with, right?
And if there is one dish that you could make or cook for a dear patient who may be ready
(42:41):
to go in life at the end of the road, what would be that dish and why?
Yeah, so I think that's a really tough question.
I think I've seen a lot of patients, you know, end of life and you know, a lot of like
goals of care discussions where it's like, you know, if they eat, they could aspirate,
but like I've seen so many patients where I actually ran into this where it's like,
(43:05):
okay, you could choke, you could die, you could aspirate, but like, do you want to do
comfort feeds or like, is there something you would like to eat?
And then I think every patient does have a specific dish that they create as their comfort
food.
And so I guess I can't dictate like what one dish it would be, but I think I would talk
(43:25):
with each patient and be like, okay, what would be your dish?
How did your relatives or how did you make it?
And then I would try to customize it for each person because I think as your last meal,
you know, you deserve to go out with something that, you know, brings you to, you know, memories
of Korea.
And so I think it's a very personalized.
(43:46):
Yeah, I guess it's like, like I said, right, food brings nostalgia and I guess it's like
time to not for them and things that's comfortable for them.
I can't imagine how stressful life and work has been as a physician and also as a chef
now.
Are there things that you do outside of those fields that serve as your decompression?
(44:07):
Any hobbies or anything like that?
Yeah, hobbies.
I mean, I really love hiking.
I think within LA, there's so many beautiful places to hike.
I love reading.
I don't know.
I mean, sometimes it just involves like me just vegetating, watching Netflix and decompressing.
And then yeah, other times just like, I think just like hanging out with loved ones and
(44:30):
just like sipping on wine and decompressing.
Yeah.
I would say those are kind of like the biggest things and then recently, like I've started
using Headspace, which I would tell patients all the time, like, oh yeah, like work on
your sleep hygiene and try using calm or Headspace.
But I've never personally used it myself, but I feel like the last couple of weeks I've
(44:51):
had like insomnia where I'm like, oh my gosh, I cannot sleep and Headspace actually legitimately
works.
So I've started using that and like meditating more.
Yeah.
I mean, in times of also where you can't sleep, do you also find yourself like watching videos
or going to a rabbit hole on YouTube or anything like that?
For me, when I can't sleep, I don't use electronics.
(45:11):
So I'm like, I know in my mind that's going to worsen it.
So I'm like, like, let's just, I don't know, like get up, do something, try to be or yeah.
Yeah.
I'm curious as a chef, do you also watch cooking shows as well?
That's funny.
Like, I think, you know, when I was not in the industry for a long time, I mean, I love
cooking shows.
I mean, I would say whether I'm in the industry or not, I love Top Chef, like Top Chef, like
(45:36):
I would always love those.
But I do think more and more I'm back in the kitchen, like I have no interest in cooking
shows.
And I don't know, a lot of people are like, oh, as a chef, you must take like gourmet
meals.
But actually like most chefs, like you just want to come home and sleep or like eat like
a piece of toast.
Like, you know, I think most chefs don't cook elaborate meals at home.
(45:58):
Yeah.
And I think it's just like, it's similar to medicine, right?
Like, I mean, I'll read like medical journals and stuff, but personally, I will not read
like medical, not fiction like ever.
I'm like, why would I spend time doing that?
Like more medicine, you know, so for me, I have all of our like fiction, like, you know,
poetry or whatever, but I will not read medical books.
(46:20):
Yeah.
I mean, my mom's been a nurse for like over 30 years and she just recently retired too.
And there was one time I was like, oh, you want to watch this new movie?
It's about this nurse, blah, blah, blah.
And she's like, I have no intention of watching anything about the hospital after.
What zero medical shows, honestly.
Honestly, I don't think I've ever watched grace and that as well.
(46:44):
I just can't do it.
You know, it's been so great during your journey about not only medicine, but you know, being
a chef in the culinary arts and it's just a beautiful story of like just service, right?
And two different arenas where it seems to be so different, right?
(47:05):
I mean, you're both serving people, but in different ways, like you're serving them clinically
as a physician and then also serving them food, you know, which gives a lot of feel
good feelings and, you know, nostalgia and also discovery of different dishes and stuff.
There's someone out there, whether it's a kid or a teen or a young adult who maybe also
(47:29):
caught in the dilemma of, oh, I want to be a physician, but I also love to cook and maybe
this is the path I want to take.
What would be your message for that person?
Well, I would say like, this is just like for anyone wanting to pursue the culinary
field or like thinking about like, I think it is.
(47:52):
I mean, medicine too, but it's such a difficult field and it's such a difficult like profession
to pursue.
Like I think everything we see on TV, it's so glorified and it looks great, but like,
you know, you're on your feet like 12, 14 hours, like you're washing dishes, like it's
really tough work.
And so I would say anyone who wants to be like, I want to be a chef or go into culinary,
(48:16):
like I would encourage them to like work in restaurants, see what it's actually like,
because it's not like being a home cook.
It's not about being passionate about cooking because, you know, you're going to be making
the same stuff over and over and over and, you know, like customers love that food, but
I think it's a very different thing.
So I think for both medicine too, right?
(48:38):
Like we always say you should shadow and see what it's like.
I think for culinary too, like it looks so glorified, but I think we have to really explore
and be like, is this what I want?
But I would also want to encourage them and say that like, you can do what you want and
you can pursue what you want and nobody can dictate what you're going to do with your
(49:02):
life.
Like, I mean, so many people in my path, even now, like, I think there are a lot of haters
in both fields who are like, okay, he hasn't worked in the kitchen that long or like he's
a doctor now, he's going to leave that field to do what.
So I think for me, it's like, I think people have followed my journey because I've always
(49:24):
been true to who I am.
So I would encourage people to just be like, just be open to opportunities.
I think whatever opportunity presents, like just be grateful and take advantage and work
as hard as you can.
And I think if something's meant to work out, it will.
If something's not meant to work out, it won't, but I think it's just about being yourself,
(49:45):
being open to opportunities and working hard and giving it all.
That would be my place.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And thank you again for sharing your journey with me.
When's the next pop up?
Actually, next pop up is next weekend.
So me and Justin, we literally right before did like five dishes, we photographed stuff.
(50:07):
Wait, because I'm going to be in Cali next week.
Oh, if you're in Cali.
Or the week after.
Wait, what is it only like a one day thing?
It's a three days at this wine bar in downtown LA.
Oh my god.
Next Thursday to Saturday.
Oh, why don't they follow me?
Yeah, if you can, otherwise, no worries.
There'll be more.
I think I'm arriving at LA like Saturday night next week.
Well, it could work.
We'll see.
(50:28):
Yeah.
Well, again, it's been such a great conversation talking about your journey.
I mean, it's really super inspiring and super making me hungry right now thinking about
all the food.
And thank you so much for joining me.
Thanks so much for having me.
Yeah, thank you so much.
I hope you get some rest tonight.
(50:49):
I know you made a lot of dishes.
Thank you.
Have a good night.
Bye.
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