May 27, 2025 • 23 mins
Feeling stuck in your career and wondering if you should be earning more?
Are there steps you can take today to boost your future prospects?
This week on the Friends With Money podcast, Money's Michelle Baltazar chats with employment expert and author Roxanne Calder about how you can improve your salary and career opportunities.
- How to earn an extra million dollars
- Salary tips in your 20s, 30s and 40s
- Steps to a better career and salary
- Dig deep and apply yourself
#friendswithmoney #michellebaltazar #roxannecalder #gendergap
Email Us: podcast@moneymag.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, brought to you
by Money Magazine, creating financial freedom for Australians since nineteen
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, your
weekly pod to help you earn, save and make more money.
My name is Michelle Baltazar, editor in chief here at
Money Magazine. Thank you for joining us here ap Money.
We're always talking about the power of small acts when
it comes to financial decision making and the big difference
(00:33):
they can make over time. This especially true today when
many households are under a lot of financial pressure as
costs of your day to day expenses have jumped in
the last three years. Compounding that problem is a systemic
issue that affects women in particular, and that is the
gender pay gap. Depending on the research you look at
(00:56):
or the business sector, this pay gap can be anywhere
between five percent and twenty percent. That's as much as
twenty thousand dollars a year. That is a difference if
you're a female in the workforce versus a male in
the workforce. So that's pretty significant. So let's talk about
this and how we can close this pay gap in
(01:18):
the future. That is just not costing women but families
hundreds of thousands of dollars over decades of working. So
joining us today is Roxanne Calder. She is the managing
director of S ten and the author of two books.
Her first is titled Employable Seven Attributes to Assure Your
(01:40):
Working Future, and her second book, launched in February, available
from February twenty six, is Earning Power, Breaking Barriers and
Building Wealth for Women Brokxanne, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi, Michelle, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm good and especially keen to talk about this because
I can I certainly follow your advice about boosting my
salary over the next decade and more. But yeah, so
congratulations on this book. And can I ask what inspired
you to write this? As I've mentioned before, you're a
(02:15):
career expert, if you like, not someone who works in
financial services.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So the inspiration, Michelle, I think came really from last
year when the legislation for the gender pay gap came
into place. There was a lot of talk about it
and lots of people were actually confusing it with the
equal pay and for me that was the first starting
point because I was like, equal pay has been a
law from nineteen sixty nine. The fact that we think
that this is a new law is pretty astounding for me.
(02:43):
And then I started to read the reports, and if
you go to the WGEA website the reports and they
are really easy to read, actually, and not normally there
are a bit of a boring or yawn for anything
like that, but these are pretty good to read. And
the main piece from that what that resonated was over
the years that I've been working with women in the workforce,
I had started to calculate the difference in earnings when
(03:04):
women don't take up opportunities or don't back themselves so
well before this report came out that basically says that
women over our lifetime are a million dollars behind plus
over one hundred thousand dollars behind in superinnuation. Years before that,
I had started to calculate that. So things like, Michelle,
if you had come to see me for an interview
and I'd put you forward, maybe for a role that
(03:26):
was two steps ahead and of what you had applied for,
but because I could believe and see your skills, and
then you might think about it and then come back
the next day and say, oh, Rock, I don't think
I'm ready for that, And then in my mind, I'd
be like, gosh, I think that's going to cost you
probably a million dollars from that not taking up that
opportunity and not backing yourself. Or it might be other
(03:47):
opportunities that I saw because most mostly I work with women,
that I saw women not taking up, not supporting themselves
because of this lack of self belief, because of conditioning,
because of self bias, all these other things that come
into play that cause that. So hence hence the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Book yes and stating the obvious for those who who
did follow your advice and said, yes, I'm up for it.
Maybe I haven't done this, but I'm willing to put
in the hard work. No one's ever come to you
and said, rox, I told you I couldn't do that job.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And no one's saying that it's easy.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
This is the other thing in the workforce today, the
environment that we're in today, it's so vastly different. So
I think sometimes and I'm not saying for women, I'm
talking about just general and across generations. Yes, sometimes we
think things are just going to be given. So when
we're given a promotion, we think it's just going to
be a walk in the park, but you need to
(04:45):
invest in yourself. You know, there's merit and hard work.
And for all those people that you see that have
achievements or success or whatever it is that you view,
they've had to work out for it. It mightn't look
like it, but people full work hard and I think
that that's part of the acceptance of what comes with it.
And equally, when we talk about some of the issues
(05:07):
in the workforce or the advice that I give in
the book, and this is what I love about you
know your program, it actually applies to men and female
because the other aspect, yeah, the other aspect of our environment,
working environment right now is as there is a level
of fragility in there. So some of these self esteem
issues that I talk about that pertain to women, they
(05:27):
actually also you know, affect some of them affect men,
and most certainly they're affecting our younger generation that are
coming through. We have a higher amount of mental health
and mental health issues coming through for the younger generation.
So you know, without it others a level high level
of fragility that is really great to share that with
(05:49):
our listeners. One the mental health issue and this immense
pressure for the younger generation to be earning six figures
right off the bat, to buy a house, to have
the you know, the five thousand dollars bag, and so
on and so forth.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
So that's why I here at money.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
We're always thinking it's not just about the money that
comes into your account every week or every month, but
it's also about your career mindset. Because ultimately, there's a
study out there from the ABS that there are eight
hundred thousand sole proprietors in the country last year. So
eight hundred thousand, there's not a lot of people, which
(06:27):
means millions of people are really wage earners, and that
is really the source of your wealth at the outset,
before you start earning assets. For example, now you have
a very provocative question in your book, and you said,
what could you do with a million dollars? And this
goes back to what you said that all these decisions
that we may compound over time, that you're like disadvantaged
(06:51):
by this amount. I can certainly think of a lot
of ways to spend that a million bucks rocks, but
let's talk about how we can earn that first. Now
I mentioned small acts, small decisions. Can you perhaps share
a couple of small decisions regarding salary or career that
(07:11):
women and men should consider in their twenties, thirties, and forties,
because presumably it truly is different depending on your stage.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And maybe if the if I could qualify the reason
I asked that question in the book What could You
Do with a million dollars is for three different reasons,
the first one being if we were sitting down having
lunch together, and we had a table of say females,
so four girlfriends sitting down together, and if I said
to you, do you know that you're a million dollars
behind over your lifetime and earnings? Pretty much guaranteed the
(07:46):
five of you would say, no, that's not me. Because
when we talk about this million dollar gap, most females
don't think it pertains to them, but it actually does.
It was me because it was me in my twenties
and thirties as well when I was making decisions then,
so I can pretty much guarantee ninety five percent of
women have been affected by this in some way. Because
(08:08):
these decisions are not necessarily the easy decision of dear boss,
can I have an extra five thousand dollars? These are
decisions that we make from that stem from our lack
of confidence or lack of belief or conditioning that cause
us not to make certain decisions at work, not to
take up opportunities, all of those sorts of things. So
if I could, maybe, you know, I really wanted to
(08:29):
sort of state that so that it sits in everyone's
head about that million dollars. And the other reason is
we sometimes think of this million dollars as like a
lotto ticket. You know, I wouldn't that be nice or
guess what it could be yours? And it's not via luck,
and it's not via going to the newsagent and buying
a lottery ticket. You can actually make these decisions for
yourself to be a million dollars ahead over your lifetime.
(08:52):
And it comes back to, first of all, being aware,
so knowing why you are making decisions and not just
going on the course of worried it'll come around next time.
So if your boss comes to you and says, there's
a variety of scenarios. So if your boss comes to
you and says here's an opportunity, and you say, no,
I don't think I'm ready, and you assume that you
can take it up, next year. That's the wrong assumption
(09:12):
because they might not be another next year, and that
one year could have propelled you forward, not just financially,
but career wise as well. So if we're talking about
your twenties, so usually that's the stage where people are
sort of learning. And what anyone in their twenties, anyone
who's in their first, second, third job, graduate straight from school,
whatever it is, you should be surrounding yourself with people
(09:34):
that you can learn from, and you should be asking questions.
You should be putting your hand up the whole time
forward exposure to different things. And also you should be
working extra hours. And I'm going to say that because
no one who's going to say that, and it's the truth.
If you need to stay back, stay back, if you
need to come in early, come in early. Now is
not the time to have what everyone talks about it
(09:57):
about well being and that balance. It's not the time
in new twenties.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I'm sorry you are trying to be controversial here.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Try we're off trend at the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Certainly, when I was in my twenties, it was the
view was I'm learning, it's taking me a while to
get to a certain stage with my writing, for example.
So I'll be there till eight, for example. But now
it's interesting that you're saying, I'm going to be explicit
about this. Don't look at the clock, don't look at
it being at five point thirty. It's about what am
(10:29):
I learning today? And I'm so happy that you've shared
that based on your experience as a recruit.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I say that because I want to help people. If
I don't want to help people, I just wouldn't say
anything because I'm bound to get some people who are like,
that's not fair. We shouldn't be doing those hours. And
I don't want to hear that, Like I don't want
to have negative you know, feedback or anything.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
But you'll get bachelors on social media now.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
But it's the truth. And you know I say that.
I give that advice to all of my friends' children
who are about to graduate, and you know, when they
come to me for advice, I'm like, this is what
you need to do. And the rest of the crew
or the group that have joined you in that grad class,
they're not doing it. Don't worry about it. You be
that five percent that stays back and does the extra work,
(11:14):
because that's what we'll see you're being seen, and that's
the effort at plus exponentially, you're going to grow so
much in terms of your knowledge and everything else that
comes with that. It also helps to develop that passion,
because if you don't have that passion and that commitment
to your work, it's hard to do those hours. You know,
how do you do extra hours if you don't love
or believe what you're doing. But equally, you got to
(11:34):
put in a bit as well. So in your twenties
you need to accept the fact that you are still
learning and growing, and in fact, the whole workplace is
the next step in your development. Whether we're in our twenties, thirties, forties, fifties,
you know, it's the next schooling for us. So and
if we can embrace that level of what work means
to us a set of it just being an annoying
part of our life, it's actually something that can help us.
(11:55):
So then we get to our thirties and by now
we've sort of we've developed work habits. We're able to
sort of roughly know what else whatever our strengths are,
we're able to know the development areas. We've probably got
a feeling of what we like, what we don't like,
but it's still time to grow. And during this time
you should be developing relationships with for mentors, people who
can be supporters for you. You should be networking, and I
(12:17):
don't mean networking in a way that is it's all
about me. I mean networking that shares information. And you
probably also want to be making sure that you're helping
the people who are coming in. You know behind you,
those twenty year olds, you want to be making sure
that you're also assisting them as well. Now, if you
are a woman in your thirties forties and you are
taking some time off for matt leave, because part of
(12:39):
the caring responsibilities is well causes some of this gender
pay gap as well, then what I would be saying
to women is have an active decision on how long
you plan to take off. And so if you take,
for example, if you take one year, often I will
hear women say I really want to take an extra year,
and I'm all for that. So I'm not not against
any of that at all, but I'm saying take an
(12:59):
active desis and work it out financially so because then
you can make the right decision. Often we just go
with the flow of what we feel or what the
heart says, and the heart's like, oh, i'd really want
to spend another year. That's okay, we'll behind, we'll be
behind on our mortgage, or we won't you know, we
won't be able to buy a place for another five years.
(13:19):
That's okay, I'm all right with that. But actually do
the finances behind it, and then when you've got the
finances and the heart, then make the right decision. And
then if you make the decision still to be taken
extra year, it's the right decision. Then there's no right
or wrong decisions unless you actually have made a conscious
effort in working it all out and not just going
(13:41):
with the flow, and then it's an empowering decision as well.
So I would say that I would also investigate your
superannuation and if you want to and if your partner
wants to do the contribution where your partner can contribute
to your superannuation. I would be exploring all of those
sorts of things before your due back from your mat leave,
at least three months before start to be upskilling the
(14:02):
skills that you'll need. We're in such a fast paced
environment now, it's not like it was ten years ago.
You know, you need to be skilled, not just necessarily
on the skills, but also there's a you know, every
every person that's taken matt Leave talks about this about
coming back to the workforce after that period of time,
and there's a you know, some trepidation with that because
you've been out of the workforce for a period and
(14:23):
it might only be a year, but that that's enough
to set people back with their confidence levels. So start
to be definitely communicating with work, with your boss, with
your colleagues, and we start to upscaling three months before
you come back. That's probably it for the thirties and
forties in terms of you know, the female part. But
I rather matte Leave section of that. But I also
(14:44):
would encourage people to always I mean this is I
always say this, you should be saving money. I always
say that regardless don't well.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And here at Money we also encourage might sell savings.
I think it's this this idea that I to set
aside as much as thirty percent of my salary and
I'm going to live like a monk for twelve months
until I get that. Whereas microsavings is saying, hey, two
hundred dollars into a share portfolio or what have you.
(15:15):
But you talked about mindset a lot and habits in
your book, because it's just the savings stript that you
need to encourage now on mat leave and the twelve
months or whether it's eighteen months, I do want to
acknowledge that it's such a volatile and emotional time for
especially for a first time mom.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
So going back to your point, this is not easy.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
It's not easy to be thinking about finances when you're
going through all the emotional and personal kind of step
change in your life.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
And that's why when I say these things, because I'm
a third party as a you know, someone who can
look exertly from that. You know, I'm able to say
that because if the people in the moment, it is
really hard and you're right and taking that decision to
take extra time off can be the right decision. You know,
(16:09):
it's whatever is the right decision for you. But if
you don't explore everything that's involved in that and the
consequences and the repercussions of certain decision making, then it's
at an empowered decision, yes, and.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
A very quick one.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
On super if you're listening to this, just do a
search on moneymag dot com dot au on superannuation because
sometimes when your partner is on a higher tax bracket,
it makes sense for them to contribute to your super
if you're earning, you know, thirty thousand dollars in under
(16:46):
during the year that you're taking a time off. These
are incredibly powerful finance decisions that you can make in
less than ten minutes. It's literally the wage earner going
to their payroll officer saying, this is what I want
to do, can you help me out?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And they'll look after it for you.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So now we're going to the perhaps fifties sixties, maybe
you're running your own business or your CEO. What are
the small decisions there that you can make. So some
of these decisions, and potentially even though we're talking fifties
and sixties, but some of these decisions could actually put
(17:28):
you know, sit in that thirties and forties as well.
So for example, if it's a salary increase time and
you're expecting say you're expecting five percent, but your boss
comes back with two and a half, the difference of
that two and a half compounded is a big difference.
So you might have a new choice but to accept
for two and a half. But I would encourage people
in all of those discussions to say that you're expecting
(17:50):
five in a nice way, because it sets the tone
for the next conversation, and then I'd be asking when
can I review this next? If you don't have that conversation,
then people will think that you were happy with that
and that was what your expectations were, and potentially the
next time it comes around it might be at the
same level. So this is all about managing expectations in
that area. To come back to the fifties and sixties.
(18:12):
In my opinion, my strong opinion, that is all about
upskilling in the tech area because that tends to be
the area. And I say that because I'm in that
bracket that.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Tends to be the area that can You know, we
have some great skills in other areas, but on the
tech space, you know, we really need to be getting
ahead of that. So if you could be upskilled at work,
and especially because of the rapid rate for the way
that tech is advancing, then if you could be upskilled
in those areas, then your confidence won't be affected and
you won't be left behind, which obviously then effects salary.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, my goodness, that's a trigger for me. The tech aspect,
because now there are so many workflow apps ways to
be more productive, so you're constantly trying to learn all
these new software in the office, if if you're you know,
in the corporate. My goodness, I just can't believe it.
But time flies when you're having fun and you're learning.
(19:06):
I do appreciate all these these words of wisdom because
you have been talking to all these women over the
years and their careers, so this is definitely a lived
experience for you to be sharing this. So let's wrap
it up with what would be the one thing that
is absolutely non negotiable, the one thing that you believe
(19:29):
our listeners should do straight after listening to this podcast
that can make a world of difference to their finances.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I probably would suggest strongly that people, and this isn't
an active thing, so I would suggest strongly that people
have some reflection, and what I mean by that is
just sitting with themselves, because that pace to be able
to observe and reflect is incredibly powerful. It'll increase your awareness,
It'll increase awareness around you, It'll increase your knowledge and
(19:59):
self regulation, because if you can have some reflection and
not just have an auto reflex, if that doesn't apply
to me, then you'll start to dig deep to question
the way you've been making your own decisions and whether
it comes from a place of conditioning or whether it
comes from a place of fear, And if it comes
from any of those sorts of areas, then you should
(20:20):
be questioning and questioning yourself and then the next time
it comes around, stop yourself from saying, oh, I can't
do that, and instead think, okay, how can I get
around this?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
So reflection, reflection, I think is.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Incredibly powerful for anything, actually, but especially in this area
because it's such a difficult topic to broach and talk
about it and it's complex and really tough.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yes, And if carving out time for reflection is too hard,
I suggest doing it. You know, go to the beach
so you're enjoying a great view, you're away that's from
all the you know, distractions, But that is important. I
think we all get so busy that we don't take
time to reflect. And just going back to what you
(21:08):
said earlier about getting a mental certainly for me personally,
if it weren't for my two mentors earlier in my career,
in my twenties, I wouldn't have made big decisions that
truly transformed my career as well. And it's going back
to what you said, Oh, I'm not ready for this.
I'm not I don't have the experience for this, and
(21:29):
they said, Michelle, just go for it and just work
hard and you get what you put in. And truly
that that's one of my key takeaways talking to you
about the way you know you work with your clients.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Maybe Michelle just to add, you don't have to have
a career to have earning power, though you can choose to.
You don't have to have this high powered career or
anything like that. Is that you can still be ahead
financially by having some confidenced and how you negotiate and
how you make decisionals all those things. So yeah, I
(22:03):
think that's probably important for women to know and for
anyone to know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I love that. I think that relieves the pressure for everybody.
It's like, I don't want to be a CEO or
I don't want to be a manager, but I do
want to have that million dollars when I retire. Once again, Roxanne,
thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
For your time.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Thank you. Thanks Michelle.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Once again, I just want to say that I enjoyed
reading your book. It's Earning Power, Breaking barriers and building
wealth for women.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It's out now.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
So before we go, if you enjoy listening to the
Friends with Money podcast or this episode, please share it
with your friends and family. If you have a finance
question you'd like us to cover in future episodes, drop
us a line on podcast at moneymag dot com dot au.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Until next I'm Michelle Baltasar Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Thanks for listening to the Friends with Money Podcast. A credible,
independent and easy to understand financial commentary, visit moneymag dot
com au. Please remember that the views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are general in nature, and further independent
advice and research based on your personal circumstances should be
(23:17):
sought before making an investment decision
Welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, brought to you
by Money Magazine, creating financial freedom for Australians since nineteen
ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the Friends with Money podcast, your
weekly pod to help you earn, save and make more money.
My name is Michelle Baltazar, editor in chief here at
Money Magazine. Thank you for joining us here ap Money.
We're always talking about the power of small acts when
it comes to financial decision making and the big difference
(00:33):
they can make over time. This especially true today when
many households are under a lot of financial pressure as
costs of your day to day expenses have jumped in
the last three years. Compounding that problem is a systemic
issue that affects women in particular, and that is the
gender pay gap. Depending on the research you look at
(00:56):
or the business sector, this pay gap can be anywhere
between five percent and twenty percent. That's as much as
twenty thousand dollars a year. That is a difference if
you're a female in the workforce versus a male in
the workforce. So that's pretty significant. So let's talk about
this and how we can close this pay gap in
(01:18):
the future. That is just not costing women but families
hundreds of thousands of dollars over decades of working. So
joining us today is Roxanne Calder. She is the managing
director of S ten and the author of two books.
Her first is titled Employable Seven Attributes to Assure Your
(01:40):
Working Future, and her second book, launched in February, available
from February twenty six, is Earning Power, Breaking Barriers and
Building Wealth for Women Brokxanne, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Hi, Michelle, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
I'm good and especially keen to talk about this because
I can I certainly follow your advice about boosting my
salary over the next decade and more. But yeah, so
congratulations on this book. And can I ask what inspired
you to write this? As I've mentioned before, you're a
(02:15):
career expert, if you like, not someone who works in
financial services.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
So the inspiration, Michelle, I think came really from last
year when the legislation for the gender pay gap came
into place. There was a lot of talk about it
and lots of people were actually confusing it with the
equal pay and for me that was the first starting
point because I was like, equal pay has been a
law from nineteen sixty nine. The fact that we think
that this is a new law is pretty astounding for me.
(02:43):
And then I started to read the reports, and if
you go to the WGEA website the reports and they
are really easy to read, actually, and not normally there
are a bit of a boring or yawn for anything
like that, but these are pretty good to read. And
the main piece from that what that resonated was over
the years that I've been working with women in the workforce,
I had started to calculate the difference in earnings when
(03:04):
women don't take up opportunities or don't back themselves so
well before this report came out that basically says that
women over our lifetime are a million dollars behind plus
over one hundred thousand dollars behind in superinnuation. Years before that,
I had started to calculate that. So things like, Michelle,
if you had come to see me for an interview
and I'd put you forward, maybe for a role that
(03:26):
was two steps ahead and of what you had applied for,
but because I could believe and see your skills, and
then you might think about it and then come back
the next day and say, oh, Rock, I don't think
I'm ready for that, And then in my mind, I'd
be like, gosh, I think that's going to cost you
probably a million dollars from that not taking up that
opportunity and not backing yourself. Or it might be other
(03:47):
opportunities that I saw because most mostly I work with women,
that I saw women not taking up, not supporting themselves
because of this lack of self belief, because of conditioning,
because of self bias, all these other things that come
into play that cause that. So hence hence the.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Book yes and stating the obvious for those who who
did follow your advice and said, yes, I'm up for it.
Maybe I haven't done this, but I'm willing to put
in the hard work. No one's ever come to you
and said, rox, I told you I couldn't do that job.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And no one's saying that it's easy.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
This is the other thing in the workforce today, the
environment that we're in today, it's so vastly different. So
I think sometimes and I'm not saying for women, I'm
talking about just general and across generations. Yes, sometimes we
think things are just going to be given. So when
we're given a promotion, we think it's just going to
be a walk in the park, but you need to
(04:45):
invest in yourself. You know, there's merit and hard work.
And for all those people that you see that have
achievements or success or whatever it is that you view,
they've had to work out for it. It mightn't look
like it, but people full work hard and I think
that that's part of the acceptance of what comes with it.
And equally, when we talk about some of the issues
(05:07):
in the workforce or the advice that I give in
the book, and this is what I love about you
know your program, it actually applies to men and female
because the other aspect, yeah, the other aspect of our environment,
working environment right now is as there is a level
of fragility in there. So some of these self esteem
issues that I talk about that pertain to women, they
(05:27):
actually also you know, affect some of them affect men,
and most certainly they're affecting our younger generation that are
coming through. We have a higher amount of mental health
and mental health issues coming through for the younger generation.
So you know, without it others a level high level
of fragility that is really great to share that with
(05:49):
our listeners. One the mental health issue and this immense
pressure for the younger generation to be earning six figures
right off the bat, to buy a house, to have
the you know, the five thousand dollars bag, and so
on and so forth.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
So that's why I here at money.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
We're always thinking it's not just about the money that
comes into your account every week or every month, but
it's also about your career mindset. Because ultimately, there's a
study out there from the ABS that there are eight
hundred thousand sole proprietors in the country last year. So
eight hundred thousand, there's not a lot of people, which
(06:27):
means millions of people are really wage earners, and that
is really the source of your wealth at the outset,
before you start earning assets. For example, now you have
a very provocative question in your book, and you said,
what could you do with a million dollars? And this
goes back to what you said that all these decisions
that we may compound over time, that you're like disadvantaged
(06:51):
by this amount. I can certainly think of a lot
of ways to spend that a million bucks rocks, but
let's talk about how we can earn that first. Now
I mentioned small acts, small decisions. Can you perhaps share
a couple of small decisions regarding salary or career that
(07:11):
women and men should consider in their twenties, thirties, and forties,
because presumably it truly is different depending on your stage.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
And maybe if the if I could qualify the reason
I asked that question in the book What could You
Do with a million dollars is for three different reasons,
the first one being if we were sitting down having
lunch together, and we had a table of say females,
so four girlfriends sitting down together, and if I said
to you, do you know that you're a million dollars
behind over your lifetime and earnings? Pretty much guaranteed the
(07:46):
five of you would say, no, that's not me. Because
when we talk about this million dollar gap, most females
don't think it pertains to them, but it actually does.
It was me because it was me in my twenties
and thirties as well when I was making decisions then,
so I can pretty much guarantee ninety five percent of
women have been affected by this in some way. Because
(08:08):
these decisions are not necessarily the easy decision of dear boss,
can I have an extra five thousand dollars? These are
decisions that we make from that stem from our lack
of confidence or lack of belief or conditioning that cause
us not to make certain decisions at work, not to
take up opportunities, all of those sorts of things. So
if I could, maybe, you know, I really wanted to
(08:29):
sort of state that so that it sits in everyone's
head about that million dollars. And the other reason is
we sometimes think of this million dollars as like a
lotto ticket. You know, I wouldn't that be nice or
guess what it could be yours? And it's not via luck,
and it's not via going to the newsagent and buying
a lottery ticket. You can actually make these decisions for
yourself to be a million dollars ahead over your lifetime.
(08:52):
And it comes back to, first of all, being aware,
so knowing why you are making decisions and not just
going on the course of worried it'll come around next time.
So if your boss comes to you and says, there's
a variety of scenarios. So if your boss comes to
you and says here's an opportunity, and you say, no,
I don't think I'm ready, and you assume that you
can take it up, next year. That's the wrong assumption
(09:12):
because they might not be another next year, and that
one year could have propelled you forward, not just financially,
but career wise as well. So if we're talking about
your twenties, so usually that's the stage where people are
sort of learning. And what anyone in their twenties, anyone
who's in their first, second, third job, graduate straight from school,
whatever it is, you should be surrounding yourself with people
(09:34):
that you can learn from, and you should be asking questions.
You should be putting your hand up the whole time
forward exposure to different things. And also you should be
working extra hours. And I'm going to say that because
no one who's going to say that, and it's the truth.
If you need to stay back, stay back, if you
need to come in early, come in early. Now is
not the time to have what everyone talks about it
(09:57):
about well being and that balance. It's not the time
in new twenties.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I'm sorry you are trying to be controversial here.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
Try we're off trend at the moment.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Certainly, when I was in my twenties, it was the
view was I'm learning, it's taking me a while to
get to a certain stage with my writing, for example.
So I'll be there till eight, for example. But now
it's interesting that you're saying, I'm going to be explicit
about this. Don't look at the clock, don't look at
it being at five point thirty. It's about what am
(10:29):
I learning today? And I'm so happy that you've shared
that based on your experience as a recruit.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I say that because I want to help people. If
I don't want to help people, I just wouldn't say
anything because I'm bound to get some people who are like,
that's not fair. We shouldn't be doing those hours. And
I don't want to hear that, Like I don't want
to have negative you know, feedback or anything.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
But you'll get bachelors on social media now.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
But it's the truth. And you know I say that.
I give that advice to all of my friends' children
who are about to graduate, and you know, when they
come to me for advice, I'm like, this is what
you need to do. And the rest of the crew
or the group that have joined you in that grad class,
they're not doing it. Don't worry about it. You be
that five percent that stays back and does the extra work,
(11:14):
because that's what we'll see you're being seen, and that's
the effort at plus exponentially, you're going to grow so
much in terms of your knowledge and everything else that
comes with that. It also helps to develop that passion,
because if you don't have that passion and that commitment
to your work, it's hard to do those hours. You know,
how do you do extra hours if you don't love
or believe what you're doing. But equally, you got to
(11:34):
put in a bit as well. So in your twenties
you need to accept the fact that you are still
learning and growing, and in fact, the whole workplace is
the next step in your development. Whether we're in our twenties, thirties, forties, fifties,
you know, it's the next schooling for us. So and
if we can embrace that level of what work means
to us a set of it just being an annoying
part of our life, it's actually something that can help us.
(11:55):
So then we get to our thirties and by now
we've sort of we've developed work habits. We're able to
sort of roughly know what else whatever our strengths are,
we're able to know the development areas. We've probably got
a feeling of what we like, what we don't like,
but it's still time to grow. And during this time
you should be developing relationships with for mentors, people who
can be supporters for you. You should be networking, and I
(12:17):
don't mean networking in a way that is it's all
about me. I mean networking that shares information. And you
probably also want to be making sure that you're helping
the people who are coming in. You know behind you,
those twenty year olds, you want to be making sure
that you're also assisting them as well. Now, if you
are a woman in your thirties forties and you are
taking some time off for matt leave, because part of
(12:39):
the caring responsibilities is well causes some of this gender
pay gap as well, then what I would be saying
to women is have an active decision on how long
you plan to take off. And so if you take,
for example, if you take one year, often I will
hear women say I really want to take an extra year,
and I'm all for that. So I'm not not against
any of that at all, but I'm saying take an
(12:59):
active desis and work it out financially so because then
you can make the right decision. Often we just go
with the flow of what we feel or what the
heart says, and the heart's like, oh, i'd really want
to spend another year. That's okay, we'll behind, we'll be
behind on our mortgage, or we won't you know, we
won't be able to buy a place for another five years.
(13:19):
That's okay, I'm all right with that. But actually do
the finances behind it, and then when you've got the
finances and the heart, then make the right decision. And
then if you make the decision still to be taken
extra year, it's the right decision. Then there's no right
or wrong decisions unless you actually have made a conscious
effort in working it all out and not just going
(13:41):
with the flow, and then it's an empowering decision as well.
So I would say that I would also investigate your
superannuation and if you want to and if your partner
wants to do the contribution where your partner can contribute
to your superannuation. I would be exploring all of those
sorts of things before your due back from your mat leave,
at least three months before start to be upskilling the
(14:02):
skills that you'll need. We're in such a fast paced
environment now, it's not like it was ten years ago.
You know, you need to be skilled, not just necessarily
on the skills, but also there's a you know, every
every person that's taken matt Leave talks about this about
coming back to the workforce after that period of time,
and there's a you know, some trepidation with that because
you've been out of the workforce for a period and
(14:23):
it might only be a year, but that that's enough
to set people back with their confidence levels. So start
to be definitely communicating with work, with your boss, with
your colleagues, and we start to upscaling three months before
you come back. That's probably it for the thirties and
forties in terms of you know, the female part. But
I rather matte Leave section of that. But I also
(14:44):
would encourage people to always I mean this is I
always say this, you should be saving money. I always
say that regardless don't well.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
And here at Money we also encourage might sell savings.
I think it's this this idea that I to set
aside as much as thirty percent of my salary and
I'm going to live like a monk for twelve months
until I get that. Whereas microsavings is saying, hey, two
hundred dollars into a share portfolio or what have you.
(15:15):
But you talked about mindset a lot and habits in
your book, because it's just the savings stript that you
need to encourage now on mat leave and the twelve
months or whether it's eighteen months, I do want to
acknowledge that it's such a volatile and emotional time for
especially for a first time mom.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
So going back to your point, this is not easy.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
It's not easy to be thinking about finances when you're
going through all the emotional and personal kind of step
change in your life.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
And that's why when I say these things, because I'm
a third party as a you know, someone who can
look exertly from that. You know, I'm able to say
that because if the people in the moment, it is
really hard and you're right and taking that decision to
take extra time off can be the right decision. You know,
(16:09):
it's whatever is the right decision for you. But if
you don't explore everything that's involved in that and the
consequences and the repercussions of certain decision making, then it's
at an empowered decision, yes, and.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
A very quick one.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
On super if you're listening to this, just do a
search on moneymag dot com dot au on superannuation because
sometimes when your partner is on a higher tax bracket,
it makes sense for them to contribute to your super
if you're earning, you know, thirty thousand dollars in under
(16:46):
during the year that you're taking a time off. These
are incredibly powerful finance decisions that you can make in
less than ten minutes. It's literally the wage earner going
to their payroll officer saying, this is what I want
to do, can you help me out?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And they'll look after it for you.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So now we're going to the perhaps fifties sixties, maybe
you're running your own business or your CEO. What are
the small decisions there that you can make. So some
of these decisions, and potentially even though we're talking fifties
and sixties, but some of these decisions could actually put
(17:28):
you know, sit in that thirties and forties as well.
So for example, if it's a salary increase time and
you're expecting say you're expecting five percent, but your boss
comes back with two and a half, the difference of
that two and a half compounded is a big difference.
So you might have a new choice but to accept
for two and a half. But I would encourage people
in all of those discussions to say that you're expecting
(17:50):
five in a nice way, because it sets the tone
for the next conversation, and then I'd be asking when
can I review this next? If you don't have that conversation,
then people will think that you were happy with that
and that was what your expectations were, and potentially the
next time it comes around it might be at the
same level. So this is all about managing expectations in
that area. To come back to the fifties and sixties.
(18:12):
In my opinion, my strong opinion, that is all about
upskilling in the tech area because that tends to be
the area. And I say that because I'm in that
bracket that.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Tends to be the area that can You know, we
have some great skills in other areas, but on the
tech space, you know, we really need to be getting
ahead of that. So if you could be upskilled at work,
and especially because of the rapid rate for the way
that tech is advancing, then if you could be upskilled
in those areas, then your confidence won't be affected and
you won't be left behind, which obviously then effects salary.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, my goodness, that's a trigger for me. The tech aspect,
because now there are so many workflow apps ways to
be more productive, so you're constantly trying to learn all
these new software in the office, if if you're you know,
in the corporate. My goodness, I just can't believe it.
But time flies when you're having fun and you're learning.
(19:06):
I do appreciate all these these words of wisdom because
you have been talking to all these women over the
years and their careers, so this is definitely a lived
experience for you to be sharing this. So let's wrap
it up with what would be the one thing that
is absolutely non negotiable, the one thing that you believe
(19:29):
our listeners should do straight after listening to this podcast
that can make a world of difference to their finances.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I probably would suggest strongly that people, and this isn't
an active thing, so I would suggest strongly that people
have some reflection, and what I mean by that is
just sitting with themselves, because that pace to be able
to observe and reflect is incredibly powerful. It'll increase your awareness,
It'll increase awareness around you, It'll increase your knowledge and
(19:59):
self regulation, because if you can have some reflection and
not just have an auto reflex, if that doesn't apply
to me, then you'll start to dig deep to question
the way you've been making your own decisions and whether
it comes from a place of conditioning or whether it
comes from a place of fear, And if it comes
from any of those sorts of areas, then you should
(20:20):
be questioning and questioning yourself and then the next time
it comes around, stop yourself from saying, oh, I can't
do that, and instead think, okay, how can I get
around this?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
So reflection, reflection, I think is.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Incredibly powerful for anything, actually, but especially in this area
because it's such a difficult topic to broach and talk
about it and it's complex and really tough.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yes, And if carving out time for reflection is too hard,
I suggest doing it. You know, go to the beach
so you're enjoying a great view, you're away that's from
all the you know, distractions, But that is important. I
think we all get so busy that we don't take
time to reflect. And just going back to what you
(21:08):
said earlier about getting a mental certainly for me personally,
if it weren't for my two mentors earlier in my career,
in my twenties, I wouldn't have made big decisions that
truly transformed my career as well. And it's going back
to what you said, Oh, I'm not ready for this.
I'm not I don't have the experience for this, and
(21:29):
they said, Michelle, just go for it and just work
hard and you get what you put in. And truly
that that's one of my key takeaways talking to you
about the way you know you work with your clients.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Maybe Michelle just to add, you don't have to have
a career to have earning power, though you can choose to.
You don't have to have this high powered career or
anything like that. Is that you can still be ahead
financially by having some confidenced and how you negotiate and
how you make decisionals all those things. So yeah, I
(22:03):
think that's probably important for women to know and for
anyone to know.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I love that. I think that relieves the pressure for everybody.
It's like, I don't want to be a CEO or
I don't want to be a manager, but I do
want to have that million dollars when I retire. Once again, Roxanne,
thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
For your time.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Thank you. Thanks Michelle.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Once again, I just want to say that I enjoyed
reading your book. It's Earning Power, Breaking barriers and building
wealth for women.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It's out now.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
So before we go, if you enjoy listening to the
Friends with Money podcast or this episode, please share it
with your friends and family. If you have a finance
question you'd like us to cover in future episodes, drop
us a line on podcast at moneymag dot com dot au.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Until next I'm Michelle Baltasar Bye for now.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Thanks for listening to the Friends with Money Podcast. A credible,
independent and easy to understand financial commentary, visit moneymag dot
com au. Please remember that the views and opinions expressed
in this podcast are general in nature, and further independent
advice and research based on your personal circumstances should be
(23:17):
sought before making an investment decision
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