Dylan McCabe - From Special Ed to Seminary and Eventually a National Roofing Group - From The Ground Up Show

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Hey there and welcome to From the Ground Up show where we inspire and encourage the nextgeneration of blue collar leaders by telling the stories of those that have been there,
done that, and in many cases are still doing it.
So today we're honored to have Dylan McCabe.
He is the co-founder and owner of Limitless Roofing Group, which is a national grouppurchasing organization for roofers.

(00:38):
He's the father of three girls, a husband and an entrepreneur.
So welcome Dylan.
Thanks for joining us.
Nice for having me, man.
Awesome.
Well,
we just want to hear your story kind of where you come from and, how you got to where youare.
So, do you mind just telling us a little bit about,
kind of your background, starting with where you grew up, how you grew up and how you gotto where you are today.

(01:03):
Yeah, so I grew up.
I was actually born in Virginia m in the Blue Ridge Mountains in a little town calledBedford, which nobody's heard of, because it's so small.
It's just a bunch of.
Farmers and stuff and uh we moved to Texas when I was six and I grew up in League City,Texas, which is kind of halfway in between Houston and Galveston and.

(01:24):
Raised like a lot of guys in a single single parent home, a broken home raised by my momand I had two older sisters and.
So.
ah You know, we didn't have any kind of guide rails for life or moral compass or anything.
So I got into got into all kinds of trouble later on growing up and struggled a lotthrough school.

(01:46):
I was in special ed all my life.
And, uh you know, it's just hard when you got a mom that works two, sometimes three jobsjust to provide.
And I mean, man, I barely made it out of high school.
And then.
Just kind of did different things, man.
I mean, just worked out a lot.
That was either at the gym or, you know, at a club.
I mean, that was kind of my life.

(02:07):
So not really going anywhere.
then, um, you know, God really broke through my life and I became a Christian.
That's a longer story, but, um, I went from being a pretty passionate skeptic to apassionate Christian and started telling everybody about Jesus.
And, um, then went to Bible college, got into prison ministry.
started talking to Aryan Brotherhood members and Mexican Mafia members and stuff like thatabout God and having really interesting conversations.

(02:34):
And then moved up to Dallas to go to Dallas Theological Seminary.
And then while I was at Dallas Seminary, God started doing some things in my heart and inmy life and just kind of led me into the world of entrepreneurship and met some Christian
entrepreneurs.
And that was a real turning point because I thought I'd be preaching for the rest of mylife.
It's funny how God has different plans.

(02:55):
You you have one way you think your life will go and God has just completely differentplans.
And so I've tried a lot of different things over the years, um from vending machinebusiness to chemical supplies to lots of stuff and um got into the roofing industry four
years ago.
And we started a mastermind group called the Limitless CEO Group.

(03:16):
And um we started just bringing roofing owners together to share best practices and learnbusiness systems.
And I started asking these guys, where are the buying groups in roofing?
Because I was in healthcare before getting into roofing.
Like I said, I've done a lot of things over the years, but I was in healthcare for twoyears in sales and called on these big buying groups called GPOs or group purchasing

(03:39):
organizations.
And so when I...
When I got into roofing, started asking where are the GPOs and roofing?
And everybody's like, what are you talking about?
And I'm like a buying group.
And people are like, what do you mean?
Like buying other roofing companies?
And
I'm like, no, hundreds or thousands of us coming together to negotiate group purchasingdiscounts.

(03:59):
You know?
Um, and so everybody that I talked to about it said, no, I've never been a part ofanything like that.
And so basically we came back with, well, if we started a group like that, would you join?
And everybody said, well, yeah, why wouldn't I?
And that was kind of the birth of the idea of the limitless roofing group.
Awesome.

(04:19):
you said you barely made it out of high school uh and then you spent some time in Biblecollege.
Any other education in there?
Did you finish a college degree or do any business education?
Yeah, so I, uh you know, having when I, when I graduated high school, I finally, went to apsychiatrist because I thought, you know, I've been in special ed all my life.

(04:44):
I've always struggled with school.
I've never wanted to do it.
I've had teachers all my life telling me I had ADHD or whatever, but my mom would alwayscome back and I was a really big gamer and I was one of the best.
mean, it didn't matter what game it was.
I would, and I'm not patting myself on the back.
That's just what I went through as a teenager.
I was one of the best.
And I mean, if it came to a first person shooter like halo or whatever, it wasn't evenclose.

(05:07):
would just win all the time against everybody by a huge margin because I would play for40.
hours a week.
So how do you compete with somebody like that who makes it their full-time job?
So my mom would come back to teachers and psychologists and say yeah but he can focus onsomething for hours at a time if he's interested in it.
So I'm not putting him on any drugs.

(05:30):
So I finally graduated high school barely I actually tried my senior year because Ithought man there's nothing worse than being held back your senior year.
And I went to a psychiatrist and he took me through all kinds of testing, IQ tests, allkinds of stuff.
And after all of that, it took weeks to go through all that.

(05:50):
He said, look,
um He's like, I've got some good news and some bad news.
I'm like, okay, you know, if I'm not playing with a full deck of cards, just let me know.
I don't care.
I'm just, I'm just, I would like to know if there's a reason for why I've, I've been aterrible student all my life and been slower than everybody had more difficulty than
everybody.
He was like, look, man, your IQ is not low.

(06:11):
And he's like, I don't know what it is because you didn't finish any portion of the IQtest.
And he's like, it could be way above average, but we'll never know because you don'tcomplete anything.
He said, the moment you experience a little bit of difficulty, you give up.
Um, and he said, and that's the good news I've got.
He's like, you have a severe case of negative self-talk.

(06:33):
And he said, most kids learn how to work through that at a young age where theyexperienced something different, difficult.
And they're like, I can't do this.
And they have a parent or a teacher or siblings that are around them that
communicate the message, we'll keep going, you're going to get it.
Keep trying.
Here's how you do it.
Well, I grew up with a mom that she didn't even graduate high school.

(06:53):
So she had a hard time helping me as well.
ah And so I learned at a very young age, I can't do stuff and I just need to give upbecause it's not even worth trying.
And so that carried me on into adulthood.
And so he was like, he was basically like, you need to switch that from, can't do this,I'm done to trying like when it's hard, keep trying and you need to replace it with

(07:19):
positive self-talk, some positive statements instead of just the head talk that you'vetrained yourself.
It's not just a, it's what you actually believe now.
You've practiced it so long.
It's just who you are.
And he said, I don't know what's going to happen to you if you find something you'reinterested in.
um And so he said that's the other big problem is he's like you just don't care He saidyou don't care if other kids are taking SATs and trying to get in colleges You have no

(07:44):
interest in that therefore you don't care therefore.
You're not even gonna try and that's true I didn't take my SATs was like I don't know if Iwant to go to college and I and I don't care like I'm more of a
I marched the beat of my own drum.
I've always been like that.
I don't care what the crowd is doing.
I don't care what popular fashion is, what the popular song is.
Like it bothers me, frankly, when everybody thinks the same.

(08:05):
It's like, are you not thinking for yourself just a little bit?
You know, so I was, I was extreme with that.
I was extreme with that and it caused me some problems.
Right.
So I was about 18 when I met with him, still kept living a, just kind of a narcissisticlifestyle, Jim.
party and just that kind of stuff.

(08:25):
Everything that goes along with that.
And then,
had a radical conversion experience to Christ and then went to Bible college andgraduated.
So the way I went to Bible college is a God story too.
I was approached by a guy that was a wealthy donor to a ministry and one of the way I gotsaved was God did some really big things but one of the he did four big things really.

(08:52):
I met a guy at the gym that I became good friends with and he had something really specialabout him that nobody else that I knew had.
and it was Jesus shining through him.
Then I argued with him about Christianity at a place called Cafe Brazil in Houston aboutevery two weeks like clockwork for almost three years.

(09:14):
I tried to get him to leave his Christianity because I thought it was a stupidestworldview possible uh and I was a little bit philosophical and I just thought it was
ridiculous.
So at the end of three years I thought, I'd
I've never met anybody like this and he has really good answers for all of my questionsand I don't have any answers.

(09:34):
All I have is questions.
And so I asked him for a great book on Christianity.
I was like, me the best book on Christianity you can.
I want really good reasons for why you believe that it's true, not just what it teaches.
And the next day he gave me Mere Christianity by C.S.
Lewis.
And I thought, man, I'm just going to poke all the holes in this book.
This is just going to be full of contradictions.

(09:57):
And the exact opposite happened.
mean, every page I read, was like, wow, this really makes a lot of sense.
And that was a miracle to me because prior to that, I would just rip ideas to pieces.
And I loved it.
I loved getting into those debates with people.
And that was an experience.
And then the final two things God did was we had a total stranger come over to Moorlawn.

(10:21):
I had knee surgery because my knee was messed up.
And it's in the middle of the summer in Houston.
And this guy comes over and he's like in a good mood.
He's happy.
It's a hundred plus degrees outside.
It's just weird.
He's like, he's so, it's, he's so happy and smiley.
It's just weird.
And I'm a total unbeliever and I'm hanging out with kind of a rougher crowd.
You know, there's violence, there's drugs, there's, know, I'm just not the kind of guythat wants to be overly overly friendly with people.

(10:48):
And
I take him to the backyard and then out of nowhere he goes, you know what Dylan, God istelling me to talk to you about Jesus.
And I mean, I'm just like in my head, that's like saying, that's like you, Eric saying,Dylan, I got to tell you, this is going to sound crazy, but I got to tell you about my
family.
They've been living on Mars for the last 50 years.

(11:09):
It was that crazy.
something inside the normal me would have been like, dude, get the F out of my yard.
Like just go.
But something told me to sit there and listen.
I mean, it was intense.
Like I just knew I needed to be quiet and listen.
And he asked me a question that I'd never heard before.

(11:30):
I'd read about it as a concept, but nobody had ever just put it to me the way he did.
And he said, Dylan, do you have any idea how much God loves you?
Do you have any clue about that?
And I was just like, man,
No, and he just and I had so the police had been called at our family Christmas six monthsprior because I attacked physically attacked my brother-in-law like that's the kind of

(11:55):
person I was so.
for him to start telling me about how much God loved me.
And he just went on and on.
Like God knew your name before you were even born.
He had this conversation plan before you were born.
He's got plans and good works for you that you don't even know about.
He knows your name.
He's got the hairs on your head all night.
I mean, he just went on and on about how much God knew me and loved me.

(12:18):
And he just started preaching, man.
I mean, like for like 30 minutes straight, my backyard.
I mean, he had his hand waving.
He had a smile on his face the whole time.
He went through Jesus, the death burial and resurrection.
He went through heaven and hell.
He went through discipleship.
I mean, he covered a ton of ground.
And at the end of it all, he went to throw his arm around me and he's like, come on, man,you can accept Jesus right now.

(12:39):
Like you can be saved today.
And I'm just like, hold on, man.
Like you clearly believe this 100%.
But I'm not there and I'm not going to do this unless I'm 100 % convinced that this is thetruth.
So he was like, all right, you go inside, man, you go inside and you pray and you ask Godto show you the truth.
And I was like, OK.

(13:00):
And he went on to mow the yard and I went inside and I prayed and I still remember theprayer because I had only prayed a few times in my whole life before that.
And I said, God, I don't know who you are and I don't know what you are, but I know you'rethere.
C.S.
Lewis has convinced me of that.
But I also know that there's all these different worldviews, atheism, Islam, Christianity,Hinduism, Buddhism, you name it, but they can't all be true.

(13:26):
Whatever the truth is about you, it is that truth and it is no other truth.
One plus one is two.
It's not three.
It's not seven.
Like that's objective truth, right?
And so I said, God, please show me the truth because I don't want to believe a lie.
Because of what that guy said out there is true.
It sounds incredible, but I don't want to be deceived.

(13:47):
So please show me the truth.
And that was my prayer.
And I just kind of went on about my business.
Probably went back to playing Halo.
So two weeks later.
God did the fourth and final thing in my life that was just, it hit me like a ton ofbricks.
And I'm at this wedding, a buddy of mine from junior high had called me out of the blue.
We were really close friends all throughout elementary and junior high.

(14:09):
And then we had high school and he just, he went to the sports crowd and I went to kind ofthe loser pothead party crowd.
And we just kind of, we just kind of lost touch.
um He calls me out of the blue.
and says, how you been doing, man?
And I'm like, Chris, how's it going?
Like, great to hear from you.
And he said, well, I've got good news.
I'm getting married.
And in my head, I'm like, oh man, what a sucker.

(14:31):
Like, you're going to have a ball and chain with one woman for the rest of your life.
What a terrible decision, you know?
And, but of course I tell him, congrats, man.
I'm happy for you.
And, and he said, well, good.
I was hoping you could be my best man.
And I'm like, wow.
Okay.
I mean, I hadn't talked to him in years.
I'm like, man, I would love to.

(14:52):
So to me, that was God's way of making sure I showed up.
So I go to this wedding and he's a Christian now.
Chris had been a Christian for years.
I guess he got converted at some point in high school.
And it is an overtly, no, I did not know that.
And it's an overtly Christian wedding.
Like the pastor, the guy officiating the wedding is just sharing the gospel the wholetime.

(15:15):
To the point to where I'm standing up there as a best man next to my buddy, Chris, and I'mlike,
Man, does anybody else think this is a little intense?
Like, does he have to keep talking about God?
Like, this is so just heavy, you know?
But to them, it was probably great.
So the couple gets married, I go to the reception, and there's a couple of hundred peoplethere that I've never met before, and I'm just making my way through the crowd, talking to

(15:38):
different people, and I meet this old man.
And we get to talking and he had uh something in his hands and it looked like a look likea coin collection or something framed in a, you know, a wooden frame with glass.
And I said, what is this?
And he said, well, this is, this is my gift to the bride and groom.
I'm the grandfather of the bride.

(15:59):
This is one of the happiest days of my life.
He said, I'm so happy for Chris and Kelly that they got married today.
And this represents the most important thing in life.
And I'm like, well, I'm kind of a philosophical guy.
What's the most important thing in life?
And he said, well, the one gold coin on top represents Jesus Christ and the 12 gold coinsunderneath represent his 12 disciples.

(16:21):
And I said, that's interesting.
I'm wrapping up a book on Christianity right now called Mere Christianity.
And I'm thinking I already know enough about Christianity.
I'm already there.
Like it's cool.
There's a lot of truth to it, but I'm not a believer.
Right.
So just that arrogance of thinking since I've studied something a little bit, I alreadyknow it.
And he looks at me and he goes, you know what, young man, God is telling me to talk to youabout Jesus.

(16:45):
And I'm just like, wait a second.
He used the exact phrase word for word.
that the Mexican law and service guy used in my backyard a few weeks earlier.
And I know they don't know each other.
And I know that they're not going to churches where the leader is telling, you know, allthe people attending, hey, go around to total strangers and use this phrase and these
exact words.

(17:06):
So I knew something was happening.
And I mean, it was I had tunnel vision on him.
I lost sight of everybody else at the reception.
was like it was just the two of us.
And he said, young man, he said, know God has plans for you, but you're not going tobelieve in him unless I share with you what happened to me.
And he said, I've only shared this with my family, direct family, and a few very closefriends.

(17:29):
I haven't shared it with very many people in my life.
But I know God wants me to share this with you today.
And I'm thinking, my gosh, what is this guy about to share with me?
Yeah.
And he said, I've always believed in Jesus ever since I was a little boy.
I had faithful parents that, you know, taught me about Jesus and the good news.
And he said, I believed in him and followed him all my life ever since I was a little boy.

(17:52):
But about 40 years ago, and this was 25 years ago now, but when he was telling me this,this was back in 2002.
And he said, 40 years ago, he was driving down an old Texas road out in middle of nowhere.
and he was delivering some papers.
um
some hand delivering some papers and this is before cell phones and stuff.

(18:15):
So he's driving hours out in the middle of Texas, out in the middle of nowhere and he'sgot the windows down and the wind starts blowing these papers around that he'd been on the
road for hours to deliver.
And so he takes his eyes off the road and he goes to put his hand on the papers.
And when he looks back at the road, the road has started curving and he's on a hill and hejerks the wheel to get control of the car and completely loses control of car.

(18:39):
And he said he tried everything from
turning the wheel, hitting the brakes, everything you can imagine.
Completely loses control of car.
It goes flying off the top of this hill, way down to the bottom.
It smashes into the ground.
He bursts through the windshield.
He hits the ground and he can't move.
And the first thing he thought was, my God, I've broken my back.

(19:00):
Because he was alive, but he couldn't feel any pain and he couldn't move.
Then he realizes he can move his shoulders.
So he starts like inching his shoulders along the ground.
And he's thinking to himself,
If I can get up to the top of the hill, somebody at some point today maybe will drive byand see me.
So he moves, does this for a little bit, and then he just passes out.

(19:23):
Well, while he's laying there, a man and his little boy just happen to be driving downthat same old Texas country road out in the middle of nowhere in a brand new car.
And they start approaching that same area where the hill is and the car starts to overheatand they start climbing the hill and steam starts coming out of the hood of the car.
And they get to the top of the hill in the exact spot where this guy, his name wasLawrence Taft, where Mr.

(19:49):
Taft's car flew off the road.
This brand new car that this man and his son are driving just completely breaks down.
And the guy didn't know what's going on.
It's a perfectly fine car.
It's a new car.
He gets out, he opens the hood.
He can't figure out what's wrong with the car.
He goes to try to restart it.
It's completely dead now.
Useless.
Well, his little boy is like exploring, looking around and while his dad's jacking with acar for like 45 minutes and his little boy goes, dad, dad, there's something at the bottom

(20:16):
of the hill.
and he goes with his son and they look down to the bottom of the hill and there's thiscrushed up car with this body laying next to it just motionless.
So they go down there, they grab him, they drag him up to the top of the hill and the guyis thinking the same thing.
Well, maybe at some point today somebody will come by, but this guy's going to die on us.

(20:39):
And the little boy looks at the dad and says, dad, just try to start the car one moretime.
And the dad's thinking,
Why would I do that?
Right?
So he goes, he gets in the car, puts the key in the ignition, turns the key and the carstarts right up.
And they rush this guy to the nearest doctor's office and they get him in there on the, inthe exam, examination room and the doctor comes in and he regains consciousness.

(21:08):
And the doctor says, Mr.
Taff, I'm not a religious man, but there's no medical explanation for you to be alivetoday.
you should be dead.
You should have lost X amount of blood.
None of this makes any sense.
And so I'm thinking, wow, this is amazing.
And I told him that I said, God, God worked a miracle in your life.
That's amazing.
And I've read enough of mere Christianity to believe in a powerful God who can workmiracles.

(21:32):
Still don't know who he is, though.
And he looks at me and he says, you know what, young man?
He said, I didn't just pass out when I was laying next to my car.
He said, I died.
And he said when he died, he rose above his body.
He was about 10, 15 feet above his body.
And he said he wasn't happy.
He wasn't sad.
He was just there.
And he looked at his body kind of like he said, like you taking your clothes off for theday and you're going to put new clothes on and they've served their purpose.

(21:59):
And that's it.
And he said then everything around him turned dark, like pitch black dark.
He said he saw the man and his son drag his body away and all that.
Soon as that happened, everything around him turned dark, like a darker than dark, darkerthan you can imagine.
And he began to wonder what's happening.
You know, am I dead?
Am I alive?
Where am I?

(22:19):
And he said, as soon as he could think the question, almost before the thought was evenfinished, the answer was there.
And so he started thinking all these questions.
um
and answers just started pouring in.
So he had no misunderstanding and he had no fear because there was nothing that he didn'tknow.
If he wanted to know it, it was there.

(22:39):
And it began to be lifted away from his body and way up above there was this this brightwhite light like way up above like an outer space.
and he's lifted to it faster and faster.
Like he said, the speed was just incredible.
um It's still the whole question and answer thing.
And then he's set down in space somewhere on nothing.

(23:01):
He's just standing there and something speaks to him and says, walk to the light,Lawrence.
walk toward the light.
So he starts walking toward the light and still the whole question and answer.
I mean, he's like asking about dinosaurs, aliens, anything you can imagine.
He's just, what about this?
What about that?
em And then he said, he's walking and at one point he noticed something off to his rightand he looked over and he said there was this massive, beautiful white gate.

(23:31):
And he said, you knew right away when you saw it that no human architect could ever designanything this spectacular.
He said it was just amazing how beautiful it was and massive it was.
And he said there were all these people around it in front of it.
And they were yelling to him and they were like, Lawrence, Lawrence, we're here, we'rehere.
And he said it was a joy that you just you can't understand.

(23:52):
It's like the most amazing family reunion ever.
And there were people that knew him.
And some of them had been dead, gone for generations.
um And he wanted to run to them, but something told him not yet Lawrence walk to the lightSo he keeps walking to the light and he said the light got brighter and brighter and he
said it got so bright that he couldn't even look at it mean, he's like walking toward itwith his hand over his face.

(24:17):
He said it was brighter than the Sun Then he began to feel something coming off of thelight
And he said it was so overwhelming that it drowned everything else out.
And the people at the gate, whole knowledge, perfect knowledge experience that he washaving with all the questions and answers, he said it just overwhelmed everything.
And he...

(24:40):
He said it was so intense that he almost couldn't stand it.
Like he almost physically couldn't stand up.
It brought it, it almost brought him to his knees.
And he asked me, do you know what I felt coming off of the light?
And I'm thinking, my God, like, no, what did you feel?
And he said, what I felt was love.
And he said, I felt a love so tremendous that you, you cannot even imagine it here onearth.

(25:06):
You have no idea how.
immense it is and wonderful it is.
said, your mother, take the most loving person that you know, that their love for youcan't even come close to this.
And he said, the light started to dim and a man was walking toward him and all of thislove just pouring off of this man.
he, Lawrence said it was around him and inside of him.

(25:28):
It was just all consuming.
And the light dimmed even more and he could see the man's face.
And he said, the man walking toward him was Jesus Christ.
And he said Jesus came up to him and uh he grabbed his hands.
And Lawrence said, I finally knew two things.
He said, I knew two things right away.
He said, I knew I was finally home and I knew that I was in the presence of my savior.

(25:52):
And all he felt was love.
And Jesus said, Lawrence, it's not yet your time.
There's still many things I have for you to do.
And boom, he was back in his body in the doctor's office.
And that's when the doctor came in and said, Mr.
Taff, I'm not a religious man, but there's no medical explanation for you to be alive.
And so I was stunned when he shared all that stuff with me.

(26:14):
I'd never heard a story like that in my life.
Now on YouTube, there's channels that talk about this stuff.
There's books like Imagine Heaven.
I had never come across anything even close to this.
And so I was kind of useless the rest of the night.
I mean, I had hard time talking to people.
I was just so amazed at what I had just heard.
And then I just thought about it every day, all day.

(26:36):
It was on my mind all day for the next couple of weeks.
And I just kept thinking, is it true or not?
Like this guy either died and met Jesus, who is God, or he's a liar.
mean, and then one day I was standing outside just looking up at the sky, thinking aboutthis stuff.
And I thought, oh my gosh, wait a second.
I met this guy at the gym that had something so special about him.

(26:59):
and he was unlike anybody else.
He just had this goodness about him and I liked it.
I was just so drawn to it and everything he said seemed to make really good sense.
Then I read this book that doesn't just make good sense, it seems to make perfect sense,which is wild.
Then I meet this total stranger who comes to my house to mow the lawn and says, God istelling me to talk to you about Jesus.

(27:20):
Then I meet another total stranger at wedding that says, God is telling me to talk to youabout Jesus and shares a story where he went to heaven and met Jesus, who is God.
Oh my god, I know you now.
You have made yourself known to me.
The very one that I insisted you cannot know the truth about.
I was a hard agnostic.
I thought there could be a God you cannot figure this stuff out.

(27:43):
I look around at planet Earth.
We're all confused.
I just thought there's no way.
And I just kept saying over and over again, I know you now.
You've made yourself known to me.
And I had tears of joy, man.
I had no conviction of sin.
I didn't feel bad for being lost.
I didn't feel bad for my behavior as an unbeliever.

(28:04):
I just felt joy.
um But I also had this sense that the devil had been walking me around like a dog on aleash and I didn't even know it.
And that pissed me off.
So instead of some like white knuckle attempt to stop sinning, was like, I'm neverfreaking going back in that cave.

(28:24):
You've had me living in a cave and I'm in the light and I'm like, you couldn't pay meenough to get back in that cave.
And so it was kind of, you know, when I say it was a radical conversion experience, when Istarted going to all my friends, like, hey man, like I need to talk to you about Jesus.
We need to talk about the afterlife.
They thought I was

(28:45):
nuts.
You became that guy.
Yeah, they thought I was nuts.
I remember talking to my butt.
had a friend that was a drug, a big time drug dealer.
mean, we huge.
I'm not talking small time.
I'm talking like legit, like owning dance clubs, working with crime, like Vietnamese drugdealers at a big level guys coming in, in the VIP room and suits once a week.

(29:10):
mean, I'm talking like legit crazy stuff.
People getting killed.
I remember talking to him like, man, I need to talk to you.
God's done something in my life.
Are you still doing what you're doing?
And I just, I was just straight like, dude, you're going to end up in prison, man.
Like on a long enough timeline, you are going to get caught.
We need to talk about your faith.
We need to talk about your beliefs.

(29:31):
Like he thought I was nuts.
So anyway, that's what happened.
And then, so this is a really long story of getting into the Bible college thing.
But after I got saved, I met a guy that was a
donor, a very wealthy donor in Houston who gave, you know, seven figures to multipleministries.

(29:54):
And we met at a fundraiser and I got to open up for the fundraiser and share my testimony.
And apologetics was a big part of it.
And it was a fundraiser where Dr.
Norman Geisler was the keynote speaker, who's my hero in apologetics.
Nobody has written better books on apologetics than Norman Geisler.
So I got to speak in this

(30:14):
This man comes up to me afterwards saying, want to help you.
And long story short, he offered to pay for my education with the caveat that I make a 3.5GPA or above.
This is somebody who's made nothing but Ds and Fs my entire life.
And he said, we're going to write up a one page contract.
If you keep a 3.5 GPA, I will pay tuition, books, some discretionary money, this and thatand the other.

(30:40):
said, but if you go one semester and do not uphold a 3.5 GPA or above, I'm no longerobligated to pay for your education.
So I graduated with a 3.98, which is another God story because you take somebody who'sbeen in special ed, who's told, who's been told.
You know, like I was going to small classes with kids with Down syndrome, with kids withall kinds of issues.

(31:01):
And I just developed the idea after a while, you're one of the dumb kids.
Like you're not like everybody else.
And for God to do that to graduating with highest honors, getting a 3.98 and then gettinga presidential scholarship to go to Dallas Seminary, which is the highest scholarship they
offer.
That's a God story too, you know, but I can look back and say I didn't do any of that.
I mean, that was just God, God providing that donor, God providing the conditions, Godproviding the focus.

(31:27):
I mean, all of it is just a huge God story.
man, that's an incredible story.
There's a few things that stand out.
want to dive a little deeper into.
So, uh know you had talked about the kind of the negative self-talk and having to reallywork to overcome that.
Is, is that something that went away in kind of a miraculous way through your conversionor is that something that you had to work at and process through?

(31:55):
No, I've had to work at it, man, because I think it affects you everywhere, right?
If I'm married, I've got three little girls.
You know, the first few years of my marriage were really tough.
mean, you take somebody who hasn't grown up in the church like me with the baggage beingthe only male, being an alpha male.
uh You know, my dad wasn't around.
I had two older sisters, their dads weren't around.
So when things went wrong, I had to deal with it.

(32:17):
um So develop some really dysfunctional ways of relating to people, to handling conflict.
So the first few years of marriage were rough because my wife and I had polar oppositeways of handling conflict.
And so we would get in a fight and then she wouldn't talk to me.
And you want to talk about negative self-talk.

(32:39):
I mean, I would just go into a hole and start drowning and my gosh, this is falling apart.
Like she's never going to, you know, are we going to be okay?
All, excuse me, all this anxiety.
Excuse me, over the state of our relationship.
um But yeah, negative self-talk is a thing.
think you just have to, and by the way, now I love our marriage.

(33:00):
Like we've been married for 12 years.
She's my best friend.
I love, I don't just love her.
I like her a lot.
We love spending time together.
She's
Our marriage is wonderful and God used our opposite ways of relating for good over theyears and helped her realize areas that she wasn't being a peacemaker and being loving,
helped me realize where I could relax and let go of control and be a peacemaker and beloving.

(33:23):
And we love it now.
um
I think the negative self-talk thing, I think it's just something you kind of have to gothrough boot camp with through life.
You have to practice.
Like Paul said, the things you've seen and heard in me practice these things.
That's what he told the church.
It takes practice.

(33:44):
so I think with negative self-talk, Craig Rochelle has a great book on this called Winningthe War in Your Mind.
And the book lines out a methodology where you practice.
You take some of the top negative statements or fears that you're used to saying toyourself.
First you just got to write them down.
You may not even know what they are.
Get those down and then replace them with something else.

(34:06):
So I have a few, you know, people call them mantras.
But I have a few things I say to myself each day.
You know, I say, you know what?
God is good.
He's working all things together for good in my life.
My life is not randomly falling apart because I experienced a lot of brokenness anddysfunction and lack of security.
You know, we never had enough money, all kinds of things.

(34:28):
And you bring that into your adulthood.
So that's one of the things I say.
uh Joshua 1 is big to me.
I say that almost daily.
Lord, I just thank you that you're with me and you're never
to fail me, you're going to let me go through battles.
You're not going to prevent the battles.
Josh was, the whole book of Josh was nothing but battles.
So why should I expect to just bypass any difficulty in my life?

(34:52):
So difficulty is going to come.
I welcome that whatever you think is good, but I know you're with me in it in ways that Idon't understand.
And I know you're not going to fail me and you're not going to leave me and you love me.
So I say stuff like that to myself every day, man.
Yeah, that sounds like quite a journey.
you have any advice for somebody else that's struggling with that negative self-talk ordoubting whether they can do whatever's in front of them next?

(35:21):
Yeah,
I think you need to assess what is it that you're believing, what is it that you'resaying.
A lot of people don't vocalize it.
You need to talk to somebody about it and try to distill it down to a simple thing.
Like you can't just say, well, I struggle with fear.
I struggle with anxiety.
What are you afraid of?

(35:42):
Okay, are you...
With me, I knew God had the power, but I didn't know he would come through.
That's something I struggled with for years in my early Christianity.
I know you're all powerful, but I also know you let some messed up stuff happen in life.
Like you do allow death, you do allow businesses to fail, you do allow this, whatever, youknow, any negative scenario.

(36:06):
So I had to come to a point to where it was like, I know you love me and you're going tobe loving in my life.
And I've got to trust that, you know?
But yeah, think you need to vocalize it and I think you need to replace it with a truestatement that's faith.
Because it's just fear of faith.
I mean, it all comes down to fear of faith.

(36:27):
And if the enemy can get you to be worried and be fearful and start questioningeverything, I mean, he's really got you, you know?
And it just sucks the joy out of your life
too.
Yeah, I would encourage anybody that's dealing with that to write it down on paper.
Try to come up with a simple statement that's clear about what you fear or what thatnegative self-talk is.

(36:48):
ah Whether it's about you or your relationships or your life or who God is.
A lot of believers aren't mature enough to just be honest with God.
Like, Lord, I'm really struggling with you right now.
I think you suck because you've come through for other people.
Be honest with God.
He already knows what's in your heart anyway.
He's big enough to handle it.

(37:09):
You're not going to hurt his feelings.
No, mean read the Psalms.
Like if you need help with that, just read the Psalms.
It's the most raw form of communication with God.
um But yeah, I think writing it down and then replace it with a true statement andpractice that, say it to yourself every day.
That's biblical, by the way.
um It's not just some new age stuff or something from some self-help, but like that isbiblical to talk to yourself.

(37:38):
I read a quote,
years ago, uh because I got a leadership degree at the College of Biblical Studies, andone of the books we read, one phrase in the whole book stuck out to me, and he said, the
biggest problem with leaders today is that they listen to themselves instead of talking tothemselves.
So whatever you wake up with in the morning, whatever that natural thought process is,stop.

(38:01):
Okay, silence.
Here's the truth that I'm going to tell myself.
That takes practice, and that's normal.
Yeah.
man, that's good.
I'm going to, I'm going to write that one down.
That's good.
So,
I can tell kind of your, your faith and that background is a huge part of your story.
I'm just fascinated.
How do you go from, um, a ministry track really big into apologetics and Bible school tostarting your own business?

(38:31):
What was the process that led you, uh,
maybe away from full-time ministry and into ministry through business.
Is that a fair way to word that?
Yeah.
it was kind of a odd process because I really, I love preaching and teaching and I thinkum that's just something that I've done consistently over the years in prisons and

(38:52):
churches and led a lot of Bible studies, taught a lot of Bible classes at differentchurches.
And so when I moved to Dallas to go to Dallas Seminary, uh the Dallas Seminary, the ladythat was head over development and fundraising for Dallas Seminary,
knew of me and she had a donor that was he was an elder to church in Frisco Texas and theywere looking for a pastor and she connected us and I started preaching at their church and

(39:21):
loved that and thought I'd be doing that for the rest of my life but I never really wantedto be a full-time pastor I just like preaching you know preaching is the easy part
Preaching is the easy part.
If you're called to do that, but it's all the other stuff that's the real work and thereal sacrifice, think.
Preaching is the fun part.
And so I'm at Dallas Seminary and I had gotten a job with a ministry called Point of ViewMinistries and I was a fundraiser.

(39:49):
And one of the donors that had got us a uh good size check, we were just getting to knoweach other, having lunch.
And I had just read Rich Dad Poor Dad.
Mm-hmm.
had not been taught anything about money growing up.
We just didn't know.
We didn't know how to manage money.
My mom didn't know how to manage money.
That's not a hit against her.
She was never taught that.

(40:09):
And so when I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, it was almost like getting saved a second time.
Like it was that dramatic to go to Holy smokes.
I know nothing about money and money's always been a problem.
We grew up poor too.
You can make money.
You can have multiple income sources.
You can build generational wealth and you can use money as a tool.

(40:29):
Money is not this big dark cloud now that just give rains trouble on your life.
You can actually use it as a tool to help people, to bless others, to bless your family.
And so I just couldn't stop thinking about that.
And I started praying and I said, God, mean.
This is life changing.
I want to be like the rich dad.

(40:50):
I don't want to be like the poor dad.
ah I would love to have multiple businesses, multiple streams of income and have thefreedom that comes with that and the ability to do different things that I can't do if I
don't have the money to do it.
Like help fund ministries or anything that requires money, right?
If you don't have money, you can't do it.
And so I meet this donor and we get to talking and she goes, you know, I think you need tomeet these two guys that I know they're Christian entrepreneurs.

(41:17):
And em I just think you need to meet them.
And I didn't know it, but she was an investor in their startup.
And so I meet these two guys.
Uh, they were from Springfield, Missouri, and they had started this company and long storyshort, I started, uh, I started my first foray into entrepreneurship with their company
and they had this, it totally failed by the way, this business, but they had this, theyhad this restaurant app that you would buy.

(41:43):
You download this app on your phone.
There's a picture of my wife and you'd
If a restaurant had the app or if they worked with the app, you'd go into the restaurantand the app was called Spin Streak.
Almost like winning streak, but spin streak.
I even the name wasn't good.
And you spin this wheel and you'd win things like half off your order or buy one, get oneor 20 % off.

(42:06):
So it was a way for the restaurant to retain customers.
So they're selling this thing as like a business in the box.
Like you can be a franchisee or a dealer of this thing.
You own a market and you go.
sell it and you sell as many accounts as you want and everything gets fulfilled at theback office and they've got the marketing and the SOPs and all of it.

(42:27):
So to me that was a low risk way to be an entrepreneur.
Like this is a business in the box.
Somebody else has already thought up this model.
I just sell.
So man, mean, I'm going and so I talked to this donor and I said, I'd like to become adealer for this company and I'd like to have the Dallas market or part of it, but I don't
have the money for this.
I'm like, I'm a seminary student.

(42:47):
Seminary students don't have money.
They're too busy paying for seminary.
And so she funded that and was like, look, I'll give you this as a loan.
I'll pay for your dealership fee, get you started and you pay it back.
So I get started.
And I'm going on lunch breaks from work.
I'm going in restaurants, walking in as the owner here.
I'd love to shake hands with the owner.

(43:07):
And I'm telling him about how I can help him retain customers and get new ones.
I'm going on Saturdays and walking in.
Same thing.
I mean, I'm just trying to do whatever it takes to make this thing work.
And I'm thinking if I could get up to 50 to 70 customers on monthly recurring revenue,this would be a big blessing to my family.
So my wife was on board and she's watching me leave on Saturdays and go do this.

(43:30):
and.
After a few months, it just started to fall apart.
They started having problems with the app, started having problems with other dealers, notselling the app.
There were glitches.
Restaurants would use it for a few months and then want to cancel.
It just became a huge headache.
So then these guys pivoted with like entrepreneurs do and they're like, all right, let'sjust kill the app.

(43:53):
Like it sucks.
It's not going to be what we wanted it to be.
But we figured out how to sell banner ads online.
These things are, know, know, millions and millions and millions of dollars are spent onthese every month.
We're going to design banner ads.
We're going to manage them.
We're going to charge companies a fee.
Now we can work with anybody, not just restaurants.
So I started selling banner ads and then they started to sell websites and then theystarted to sell SEO services.

(44:19):
And then they just became a full blown digital marketing company.
And I think at their peak, they had over 300 customers on monthly recurring revenue.
So they did OK.
um And that was OK for me as well.
It never became like anything really big.
um But that gave me a taste of not only what does entrepreneurship look like, because Igot to watch these guys grow this thing.

(44:43):
I got to watch them deal with issues.
I got to watch them make the pivot.
But it also helped me realize like this isn't that hard.
Like these guys are not geniuses.
They're just normal guys.
And they came up with an idea and they kind of built a plane while they were flying it.
I mean, they didn't, they didn't have the plane built and then they took off.
They didn't know what they were doing.
Like they, all they knew was what next step to take.

(45:06):
And so that got me thinking too, like, man, I could start my own company, you know, andthat that's kind of how all that started.
And then we came to a point to where my wife and I were both getting master's degrees.
And so I'm finishing my master's degree at Dallas Seminary.
She was just starting a master's degree, a dual master's.
And we had a conversation where we're dealing with the issue.

(45:29):
The issue is, if I graduate, we can't both afford to get our master's degrees.
If I graduate, I get a degree and nothing changes.
If she graduates, she gets a degree and gets a massive pay raise.
So we're like, okay, let's put Dallas Seminary on hold.
Let's let you finish your degree.
And I just kept focusing on the world of entrepreneurship.

(45:51):
She finished her degree and I just never went back to Dallas Seminary and I only had twoclasses left to graduate.
man, do think you'll ever go back?
probably not, man.
At this point, I've studied so much, the only reason I would go back is for a piece ofpaper.
But also, just a mindset shift in that occurred as well, where you hear people sayfull-time ministry all the time, which is a phrase that's not in the Bible, but people say

(46:20):
it all the time.
they'll say I was called a full-time ministry or, are you in full-time ministry?
And so I started thinking through that because I heard every day you go to chapel atDallas Seminary or every day you go to class at Dallas Seminary, you have to go to chapel.
And I would hear professors say this, you know, when I was called a full-time ministry andI started to have a real problem with it because anything I hear I have to wait a second.

(46:42):
Where is it in scripture?
And so.
I started thinking, wait a second, we're all ambassadors for Christ, no matter what we do,whether you're a plumber or whether you're Billy Graham.
We're all, you know, priests, we're all a royal priesthood, a kingdom, we're all newcreatures.
God's working through all of us.

(47:03):
There's multiple gifts, there's multiple ministries.
And so I developed the belief that we're all, if you're a Christian, you're in full-timeministry.
Like you don't clock out of your Christianity.
Yes
You don't wake up and go to, you know, while I'm at Starbucks, I'm not a Christian, butwhen I go to church, I'm a Christian.
And so.
I look at business just as a ministry platform.

(47:24):
Like I'm a light to the 700 plus roofing company owners that are in our group.
I'm open about my faith.
Then when I get home, I have a ministry to my wife as her husband to wash her with thewater of the word, to encourage her and the Lord to love her well.
And then I've got a ministry to my three girls.
I've got a ministry to my brothers in Christ I meet with on Friday mornings.
And I pray every morning that like Paul said in Romans one that we'd walk away mutuallyencouraged by one another's faith, both theirs and mine.

(47:51):
So any relationship I have is ministry.
It's a chance for Christ to shine through as long as I'm an open and willing vessel.
um So I get asked this.
We went to a fundraiser and a guy had known me from Northwest Bible Church where Ipreached for about a year and he said, are you still in full-time ministry?

(48:12):
I was like,
Well, yeah, I'm a Christian, right?
Like, I don't, I'm not checking out of my Christianity at any point today that I'm awareof.
And he was like, oh, yeah.
And it was awkward, but I'm like, stop throwing this
phrase around.
That's great.
man, I love that.
You've been an encouragement to me just this afternoon here.
So, man.

(48:33):
Okay, so you're almost finished seminary, two classes left.
Start working on this uh restaurant app that turns into website banners.
How do you get from selling websites to the roofing industry?
Yeah, so the digital marketing company got under new ownership.

(48:56):
They brought some partners on board.
It's kind of a sad story.
The new partners they brought on board did kind of a hostile takeover of the company.
They outlawed the founders and took the company over and they fired me right away.
I was the highest paid employee at the company.
They're like, he's gone.
So that was catastrophic to me.
We weren't ready for that financially.

(49:17):
That was one of the lowest points I'd had in my life as a believer.
I I won't say what I was saying to God in my garage uh as I was yelling at God saying,where are you?
What are you doing?
You like you knew this was coming.
But God used that for good too.
Really, really, really good.
And so I ended up applying for a job, guy I met through church and it was in healthcaresoftware sales.

(49:43):
And I did that for two years and God really used that for good, even though it was reallyhard, battled a lot of negative self-talk with that because that was a startup as well.
So note to anyone listening to this, if you want stability, don't work for a startup.
uh
That was a startup as well.
And I was in sales and they had sales goals and I just, you know, I hit the goals and thennot the next quarter.

(50:05):
And it was just an emotional roller coaster.
And so I got so sick of that, that I started looking for what else to get into.
And a buddy of mine owned a roofing company and I reached out to him and I was like, man,I'm looking for something else to get into.
You know, I've seen you a couple of times a year at Christmas parties and that you alwaysseem really laid back and you're talking about how you're taking the month of December off

(50:28):
and going hunting and this and that.
Like, what does it look like to get into roofing?
I would just like to talk to you about that.
And long story short, I started selling roofs for him.
And my, you know, my brain just couldn't get away from the idea of, well, what kind ofbusiness could we start in roofing other than selling roofs for this for him?
And that's when we came up with the idea of the limitless CEO groups.

(50:51):
Okay.
And so that started as like a business coaching organization.
It didn't start as the GPO, is that right?
Right, yeah it was more of um have you ever heard of EOS Worldwide?
No.
EOS is just a way to systemize your business.
There's a book called Traction by Geno Wickman.

(51:13):
It's one of the most boring books you'll ever read.
But it's like a business manual on how to set your business up to where it's predictable,repeatable.
You got the right people in the right seats.
You got processes.
You got scorecards.
You got planning.
It's just all there.
A whole system for you.
And so I became an implementer.

(51:33):
I went through the coaching program and became an EOS implementer and it's uh applicableto any business.
And so we started teaching this to roofing owners.
got books, they got workbooks and we did training calls every week.
And then that's where just, and I actually had lunch with my former employer from thehealthcare software company and told him I got into roofing and his first response was all

(51:55):
man, you should start a GPO.
I'm like, I don't know about that.
you know, and I just could not shake that statement.
And I kept thinking, man, what like, what would that look like?
And that's when we started asking our members if they'd ever heard of a GPO.
Yeah.
Okay.
Interesting.
So how does that startup look?

(52:15):
can imagine that's got to be a pretty daunting task to you got the whole chicken and eggthing going on of, you know, it's hard to get members until you have deals and it's hard
to get the deals until you have members.
But how do you go about doing that?
Yeah, it's impossible to, for one, it's a really hard business model to start.
It's a great business model years down the road once you've been established, but it's oneof the hardest businesses to start because there's no cashflow upfront.

(52:44):
And like you said, how do you build a group if you don't have any deals and how do you geta deal if you don't have a group?
Well, it just so happened because God works through relationships.
And God had all of this planned all along.
You know, I'm constantly surprised by the good things God has planned.
They're not even on my radar.
Like, it's stuff that I never dreamed about.

(53:06):
So it just so happened that one of the guys in our limitless CEO group had started aroofing supply company in Texas because he didn't like his local supplier and he thought I
can do it better.
He's a really interesting guy from South Africa, solid Christian guy.
All he does now is travel all over the world and dig water, you know, fund water wells forhis nonprofit.

(53:27):
And
He said, you know, he said, I started my supply company and then I was approached by SRSdistribution, which is one of the big three suppliers in roofing.
And he said, I, you know, they acquired my business and in the process I got to know DanTinker, the CEO.
And he said, I think this is a great idea.
What if I just emailed Dan and let's just see what happens.
And so he emailed Dan Tinker, the CEO of SRS, which just got acquired by Home Depot.

(53:53):
And he emailed Dan, the email was perfect.
It said, Hey Dan, this is DOS.
His name is DOS Rousseau from South Africa.
He said, Hey Dan, this is DOS.
I'm in a group called Limitless with Dylan McCabe and he has a business idea I think youneed to hear about.
Just completely left it vague.
You know, and then Dan emailed back within 30 minutes and he said, Hey, I'm on vacationright now, but I'd love to meet with you guys.

(54:18):
Why don't we plan something for August?
And this was like, uh, I think this was May at the time.
So I'm thinking, my gosh, like we've got this idea now we've got to get an LLC formed.
got to get a website built.
We got to get a real plan together here.
And so that was some healthy pressure again, just like having to be forced to get a 3.5GPA or above in college.
Here was another pressure point where it's like, okay, put this business together.

(54:42):
We hired a consultant right away that was in healthcare that I'd known that she was headof a GPO in healthcare.
We're like, okay, how do we do this?
How do we get started?
How does the financial structure look?
How do we help members?
How does the company profitable?
We put the whole thing together, built a whole presentation and I went to SRS'sheadquarters.
which is in McKinney, Texas, and went to their big meeting room and sitting at thismassive like 30 person conference room table.

(55:10):
And right across from me is the CEO of SRS who makes deals for a living.
It's all he does.
And then their head of mergers and acquisitions who does nothing but negotiate deals.
And then their VP of sales who does nothing but negotiate deals with the biggest roofingcompanies in the US.
And so I'm completely outgunned.
You know, and it's me with zero experience.

(55:31):
And then my friend DOS, my roofing owner friend is just sitting there and he's just quiet.
He has nothing to say, right?
Um, and so I pitched them this idea and they tried to poke a thousand holes in my idea.
But the thing God had done in my time in healthcare,
after calling on physicians for two years, trying to sell them enterprise level software,that will train you to control a conversation and not allow people to take it over because

(55:59):
some of the physicians I called on, not all, but some were some of the most arrogant.
difficult people to talk to I've ever met because they've been to school longer thananyone else.
They're making more money than anybody else in the room.
And a lot of these physicians had very successful practices.
So the ego was just out of control, but they didn't know business.

(56:19):
They've been clinically trained and I've got a business solution for a reason.
It streamlines, it brings efficiency, it saves physicians enormous amounts of money.
So I would challenge them on that and I learned how to say, get that, but what about thesethree questions?
Like, what are you doing here?
How are you solving this problem?
Who's accountable for that?

(56:39):
Have you checked on this?
And after a while, they're like, oh, they realize I don't have a grip on my practice.
And so that helped because I remember the point of the meeting with those guys at SRS.
was like, look, everything you're saying is in the presentation.
Let's go through it.
Hold your questions till the end.
And let's just figure out if this is a win-win.
If it's not, fine.

(57:01):
But let's not, you know, we're kind of all over the map here.
And so Dan Tinker was phenomenal.
Like as a CEO, he was like, let's look at it.
He was just curious and interested and he wasn't arrogant.
He was easy to talk to.
um And so we went through the presentation and then he started asking a lot of questions.
Like how would you roll this out?

(57:22):
Who would this be for?
What if this scenario?
What if that scenario?
What are you going to do in this event?
um And he just kept going and then at one point we met for two hours.
It was like a two hour episode of Sharp Tank.
At one point he goes, what would we need to do to launch by January?
And I remember sitting in my seat going, my gosh, he's going for it.

(57:44):
Yeah.
for the next 45 minutes, we talked about how to launch together.
And I walked out of there and thought, my gosh, we just got to deal with one amulti-billion dollar roofing supplier.
And we had to negotiate over the next few months and get a contract drafted and all thatstuff.
But um that's how it happened.
They took a chance knowing that we didn't have a group.

(58:04):
but they saw the value in getting more market share and helping roofing companies more.
And they said, yes.
And that was the first big domino that fell.
And then we started getting deals with vendors for everything from, from general liabilityinsurance to lead generation to anything up a roofing company spends money on.
Wow.
That's pretty cool story.

(58:25):
all the systems you guys put in place, you set the meeting in May, you got to be there inAugust, whirlwind, figuring stuff out.
How many of those systems, those ideas, those processes are still the way you do thingstoday?
biggest one, I'm more of the visionary type.
There's a, there's a book called Rocket Fuel that gets into visionary versus integrator.

(58:49):
And I remember reading the first chapter where it talks about the visionary.
I'm like, man, this is like, you could just insert my name.
mean, I'm great at taking things from zero to three out of 10 steps to completion.
I'm terrible at steps four through 10.
Like do not give it to me.
I will screw it up.
I will not, I will frustrate you.
And so oh

(59:10):
The biggest thing that I practice is the visionary part, the ideas, the what is this, whatdoes the strategy look like at a big picture level for the next year, for the next two,
for the next three.
But I've got guys around me who are more integrators who are in the nuts and bolts of howwe get there.
What does it look like on a weekly and monthly basis?

(59:30):
More operations minded.
Okay.
I just noticed a lot of businesses when they get started up, man, it is a whirlwind ofjust putting everything together and you have this great vision and six months later, you
might be successful, but nothing looks the way you thought it was going to look.
So I was curious if that was the case or if you guys kind of nailed it the first time.

(59:53):
No, that's totally been the case with us.
I mean, we've had to pivot and evolve and change direction.
And I mean so much when we first started the group, I thought, man, excuse me, you know,the other GPOs that I was familiar with, the ones in healthcare, some of these buying
groups are huge, thousands and thousands of members.

(01:00:16):
And I thought, you know, we're going to start this in roofing and we're going to havehundreds of members in the first month.
We had zero, zero.
Like everybody we talked to was like, what is this?
What's a GPO?
I finally stopped using that phrase because nobody understood what it meant.
You know, what's the catch?
Like you're going to give me, you're going to save me money, but like, how does this work?

(01:00:39):
Are you a supplier?
People were confused about whether we had a warehouse where we were selling roofingmaterials at a discount.
The first year was rough, man.
I mean, I think we got like,
50 members or something the first year.
And then we decided, okay, we've been charging for this thing and we charge them and theyget access to a mastermind group as well and all this stuff.

(01:01:01):
And then we thought we need to open this up for free, you know, like we're charging peoplefor something they don't even understand.
So we opened it up for free and that helped.
um
But really not until this last year, like not until 2025 did we really start to take offand that's in our third year.
So no, it has not been easy.

(01:01:22):
know, God doesn't roll out the red carpet just because you have a good idea or justbecause he's leading you into something that you have to go through the same challenges
everybody else does.
Yeah.
Well, that was, that was one of the questions I had on my list for you specifically.
Um, Hey, you've been through some tough stuff of, uh, growing up, the only male in a homewith a single mom and, being labeled as, uh, learning disabilities and being fired, um,

(01:01:53):
now building a business.
What, uh, what keeps you going when things get tough?
What, what helps you push through and,
Yeah.
Three years of grinding it out before you get the membership going and make things happen.
What, keeps you going?
Yeah, I mean, for me, the biggest thing is prayer.
mean, I just my relationship with God is the anchor and I pray that I lean on prayer foreverything just because I read the word to I mean, I read the word every every morning

(01:02:23):
while I eat breakfast.
but my go-to for peace and for direction is prayer mainly.
And I asked the Lord, is there something you want me to see about this?
Is there anything you want me to believe about this situation and any thoughts that cometo my mind?
And I don't hear an audible voice or anything, but...
If an impression comes to my mind or a thought, and sometimes I'll like recently I'vebeen, we've been dealing with something, a challenge with the business.

(01:02:51):
And I'm like, what do want me to see about this guy?
And Joshua chapter one just comes to my mind very clearly, you know?
And so I'm reading that and it's like, you need to be strong.
You need to be courageous.
You need to walk by faith.
oh But I felt a pretty,
I felt a conviction when we started this that it was something that would be big andmeaningful and that I just remember praying God, if you give us a deal, like if we can

(01:03:19):
just get a deal with the supplier, that'll be confirmation that you're doing somethinghuge because I have no right to get a deal with any supplier.
I'm from the outside of the industry.
Nobody knows who I am.
And for me to sit across from the CEO of SRS distribution.
and talk about how to work together is nuts.

(01:03:39):
Like to me, that's just insane.
And so when that happened, I realized God is doing something and he's not gonna stop.
I mean, he's not gonna just go, okay, I got you a deal with SRS now I'm pulling back.
Hope you guys figure it out.
Mmm.
always, I've just always had that thought.
Like God has started something here and he's going to finish it.
And yeah, there's ups and downs.

(01:04:00):
And like any startup, it's like, you have to figure out how to manage cashflow.
You have to figure out how to pay your employees and figure out the hard way that youhired the wrong person.
Um, and then you're trying to find the right people, the right strategy, the rightmarketing.
It's all hard.
I it's all just one giant challenge, one challenge after another.
um But I still have the conviction that he's doing something good and we're finally, afterthree years, we're hitting the tipping point to where things are happening in the business

(01:04:30):
to where we'll be way stronger next year.
um Financially, we'll have a lot more members, we'll have more options for the members.
We've got over 700 companies in the group now.
um And so I'm glad.
I mean, I'm glad we persevered, but it's taken three and a half years.
Yeah.
Huh.
You just can't give up, man.

(01:04:50):
That's it.
It's that simple.
You just can't quit.
So what has been the most difficult challenge you've faced in the last three years?
What was the one that you lost the most sleep over or came the closest to giving up?
I think the hardest thing we've been through is, you know, we, we have these strategicrelationships with our suppliers and we've got SRS and QXO and we got to, you know, you

(01:05:17):
have to, we have to make sure it's a win-win partnership every year.
We have to walk through, okay, what does our structure look like?
What can Limitless offer its members in the form of savings things that reduce theiroverhead?
How does Limitless make money?
ah and how is it helpful to the supplier and one year we the negotiations became prettyintense and We kind of locked horns.

(01:05:43):
I personally locked horns with somebody at SRS on the leadership team And it looked likewe may not be able to to figure out how to work together
And I thought, man, I'm going to see this thing that I started that I felt led to startthat God has done some big stuff and it looks like this whole thing may just completely
fall apart.
And that was hard, man.
That was really hard.

(01:06:04):
But it worked out and it became even better after that and it's been better ever since.
you know, even when it seems like God is not there and is not helping, usually that's thetime where he is doing stuff behind the scenes.
You've just got to, you just got to wait because moves are happening on the chessboardthat you don't understand because you're not a grand master chess player.

(01:06:27):
All you're looking at is I just want to move this pawn forward.
Why won't this pawn go forward?
You know, but I like chess.
If you watch a grandmaster play chess and you don't know how to play chess, the movesthey're making make no sense.
And so that was a big lesson, too, just to realize, look, your security is not in aprocess.

(01:06:49):
Your security is not in how well you handle something.
Your security is in Jesus and he's going to get you through stuff.
Awesome.
Awesome.
That's great.
I love that answer.
um Well, I want to step back and take a break from kind of the normal questions here justfor a second.

(01:07:10):
We do a special segment.
We try to do one each show and have listeners write in and ask questions kind of specificto you and your expertise.
So I've got two of these submitted by Frank.
um
So first one, if you weren't running limitless, what would you be doing instead?

(01:07:32):
Man, I'd probably be doing some sort of men's ministry full time.
Just taking guys on hikes, talking about life, talking about marriage, talking aboutfaith, know, believers, unbelievers, just having conversations about God, hopefully in
some beautiful place like Colorado or Montana.
oh

(01:07:53):
Awesome.
That's a great answer.
like that.
Um, and then the other one, I know you're still kind of getting it figured out three and ahalf years in, but if you had to start over from ground zero to try to build the business
that you've built, where would you start and what would you do different?

(01:08:14):
probably would have raised money.
Because a lot of startups raise money and the reason they raise money is because againmoney is a tool and if you don't have that tool You can't you know if you want to dig a
trench.
It's way easier with a shovel Well, you got to buy that shovel at a store if you want tomake it even easier to dig a trench You need to pay or you need to pay somebody to use

(01:08:39):
some heavy equipment like a backhoe or whatever to dig the trench even faster that takesmore money
So we did it the hard way.
We didn't have a shovel.
We didn't have anything.
We just bootstrapped this thing.
And I think it would have been way easier if we would have just given up some equity andraised some money and had some runway financially to hire people, spend money on

(01:09:01):
marketing, um stuff like that.
think and I think in the next.
thing that I do, I'll probably do that.
I mean, I'll either fund it myself somehow or raise money.
I don't want to be in a situation where I'm bootstrapping a company with no money.
That's the hard way.
Okay.
Yeah.
Interesting.

(01:09:21):
Okay.
Well, um, the, whole GPO thing is new to me as a contractor.
Uh, think talking with you is kind of the first time I've been introduced to that.
um can you give us a little bit of an overview?
Uh, you know, what is the advantage of a GPO to a supplier?
Um, and then how in the world are you giving this away for free?

(01:09:44):
What, how do you set that up so that the contractor isn't paying for it?
Yeah, so the suppliers, they need the same thing every business needs.
They need customers, and they need to keep those customers.
So a group like ours with over 700 companies, they have an opportunity to work with ourgroup and to gain market share in our group.

(01:10:05):
And so we have a relationship with our members.
We're constantly giving them trainings and resources and stuff like that.
And we're giving them discounts on all kinds of things.
So the suppliers get in there are in our group to be a blessing to our members, to helpour members and offer them, you know, exclusive things through Limitless.

(01:10:25):
to the roofing contractor, just makes you more profitable because you've got overhead.
You've got, you're paying for accounting.
You're paying for shingles.
You're paying for marketing and Legion.
You're, paying for all kinds of things and we can reduce your cost of business on all ofthose things.
And so if we can reduce your cost of business on all the things you're spending money on,that makes your net profit stronger.

(01:10:47):
It makes every job more profitable.
So we basically just make more profitable roofing companies.
And it's like a, it's almost like a Costco membership.
You join, you save.
It's that simple.
But the difference between us and Costco is we're not a warehouse.
You're not buying from us.
It's more like you get the perks of the membership, but you keep everything the same onyour end.
You still buy from your supplier the same way.

(01:11:09):
You still have your same sales reps.
All of that stays the same.
It's just you get to go in and say, I'm a limitless member and you automatically getcertain things that you wouldn't normally get.
Okay, cool.
it's more like AAA.
I haven't looked into AAA, but apparently that's what AAA is like.
You join AAA and you just get discounts on all kinds of stuff.

(01:11:29):
Yeah, okay.
And so are you guys primarily focused on uh material and product or are you doing, youknow, software and accounting and that kind of stuff as well?
Yep, all that stuff.
Anything that a roofing company spends money on, can reduce their cost of business.
And not just with any vendors either.
I mean, we've tried to really pick some of the best vendors in the industry.

(01:11:53):
Like our bookkeeping slash accounting vendor is, I mean...
I would be really surprised if somebody could be more helpful than him, offer more valueand be more of a thought partner than him.
He's got a company called One for the Books and uh he's amazing.
He's our fractional CFO.

(01:12:14):
He does financial strategy and planning with us and he just does not drop balls ever.
ah So he's a unicorn.
mean, he's really, his strengths are so unusual with this stuff.
um So we want our members to work with them like get a grip on your books your cash flowmanagement your financial strategy your job costing your all of it um So that's the goal

(01:12:38):
is to we want to save you money, but we also want to connect you with the right partners
of through your whole leadership journey and entrepreneurial journey, what is somethingthat you wish you would have learned earlier that would have maybe changed how things went
for you?
You know, I think relationships is everything.

(01:12:59):
And so I think that the more that you can focus on the health of your relationships, thebetter.
The more you can focus on helping others, serving others, being a blessing to them, thebetter.
um If you start something and you're reaching out to people and saying, hey, I have thisnew thing I want you to check out, you've already lost.

(01:13:22):
That's like, help me.
I need you to help me.
Versus a relationship, a shift in relationship, which is like a servant leader mindset.
I'm here to help you.
I'm here to do whatever I can to elevate your situation, whether it benefits me or not.
That's a heart issue.
But that changes your relationships.
And the cool thing about it is when you start navigating your relationships like that,you're going to get more help.

(01:13:47):
You're going to get more customers.
You're going to get more partnerships or whatever it is your advancement of your mission.
And so I wish I had really, I mean, I've read books on that, but I wish I'd really madethat the purpose early on because the challenge when you're in a startup, you have to make
money.

(01:14:07):
Mm-hmm.
to.
You can't not make money.
So every interaction you have, if I've got something that costs $3,000 a year to sell andI'm at a roofing conference at a booth and you stop by my booth, I want you to buy my
product.
So you have to almost put that aside and say, okay, I want you to buy my product, but Idon't care if you do or not.

(01:14:29):
How can I help you?
Maybe my product's not perfect for you, but I want to learn about you.
I want to find out what your challenges are.
And maybe there's another vendor here at the conference that I need to connect you withbecause that's really the dominant priority for you right now.
And so when you have that mindset that you're just here to help other people, you're goingto do way better.
Your relationships are going to be better, but you've got to let go.

(01:14:51):
And if you're a Christian, you should be able to do that.
You should be able to say, look, Lord, you're my provider.
I want to be a blessing to others.
I'm going to leave whatever comes my way.
I'm going to leave that up to you, but I want to help others.
I want to serve others and I'm going to trust you to provide for me.
And it's, really frees you up.
Yeah.
man, that's great.

(01:15:11):
think we can definitely see that in our business as well.
Sometimes the best answer is, you know, I'm not able to help you, but let me point youtowards somebody that can or, you know, yeah, we've even turned down new jobs because we
find a cheaper way to do it than what the customer wanted.
And hey, we can solve your problem and you don't have to pay us to do it.

(01:15:33):
We're just going to help you out.
So that's great.
kidding.
ah this is one I love.
It's interesting to me.
There's a few things that's uh been true for me.
Is there something significant that through leadership and business and building abusiness uh from the ground startup without the capital you wish you would have had to

(01:15:59):
kind of building it into a success, is there something that you've changed perspective onhow you look at it or, uh you know, have
seen something from the other side that has really changed your mind about something.
Yeah, you know, it comes back to who you decide to team up with.
you're going to run a triathlon and you want to get ready for it and you've never run atriathlon before, which is a huge undertaking.

(01:16:26):
I've never run a triathlon.
I'm never going to.
I'm not a runner.
I like to weights.
like to do.
I like to lift a heavy sandbag around.
I love throwing weight around, but I'm not a runner.
I'm a 6'4", 245.
My body is not built for running.
I run like a 12 minute mile.
But if I were going to run a triathlon, I would go talk to successful triathletes.

(01:16:47):
I'd go talk to guys with an Ironman tattoo on their calf.
I wouldn't talk to my buddy who's a gamer who sits on his couch and is 50 poundsoverweight drinking a Coke every night.
But people do that in business.
Like you surround yourself with people who are not qualified.
to do whatever you need them to do with excellence, to just crush it.

(01:17:09):
And so that would be my challenge to anybody.
The lesson I've learned, the hard way is if you're going to do a business, whether it'speople you hire or people you partner with, which is a huge commitment to be a business
partner with somebody.
ah
Make sure that you know their strengths.
Make sure that they are going to be excellent at that thing.

(01:17:29):
Make sure that it's not just out of convenience or because they're your friend orwhatever.
You need to make sure that that person is uniquely gifted and wired to do the thing youneed them to do because the right person makes all the difference and the wrong person
makes all the difference.
And when you get rid of that wrong person, you're going to be freed up so much.

(01:17:51):
And when you bring in the right person to do a job or to team up with you in some way,whether it's a ministry or a business or whatever, I mean, it's a game changer.
There's a really good book on that too, called by Dr.
Ben Hardy called, Who Not How.
Who not how?
Because everybody tries to think, well, how am I going to do this?
How am I going to do that?

(01:18:12):
I'm in residential roofing.
I want to scale into commercial.
How?
It's not a how question.
It's a who question.
You need to find the right who.
The person who's already done it is comfortable with it, can do it in their sleep and askthem to come team up with you and let them run with that.
Right?
So don't talk to overweight gamers about how to be a triathlete and don't talk to peoplewho don't know what they're doing, haven't done it before about how to do something.

(01:18:37):
Team up with the right people, people that are going to thrive with a proven track record.
And that last phrase is critical with a proven track record.
That's one of the biggest lessons I've learned in the last four years.
Yeah, there's a lot of people that talk a big game and having a track record behind themmakes a difference.

(01:18:58):
So especially in today's world, there's social media and you can put out whatever front orwhatever face you want, but unless you've got something behind it, it doesn't mean much.
So.
Awesome.
Um, I think maybe I know the answer to this, but, did you have a major turning point, kindof a big point where you're, grinding, you're pushing, you're fighting and building this

(01:19:26):
business.
And it's like, Oh, we, made it.
We, kind of got over a hurdle.
We got the, the rock to the top of the hill sort of thing where you started to build somemomentum.
And then, uh, when was that?
I mean, that's just been happening this year, really.
We streamlined our processes.
We made it way easier for a roofing company to join our group.

(01:19:49):
I didn't realize it, but we were just kind of making it hard.
We were adding a lot of steps to the process.
We made that easier.
We got some marketing dialed in on Facebook.
That's been huge.
And we brought a new partner on board, and that's been game changer.
um
Yeah, just having the right person on your team and getting some systems dialed in.

(01:20:14):
we're just now experiencing that.
It's just now feeling like some relief is coming after three and a half years.
Okay.
Well, I hope it continues to grow and take off for you.
uh I know part of your story was, lost your job at one point in time because of bringingin some partners and kind of a takeover in a business.

(01:20:35):
And now you're running a business with partners.
uh You spoke a little bit about uh making sure you have the right people and the rightskills, but uh somebody that's...
starting up a business with a business partner, what advice do you have to um put theright structures in place, make sure you have the right people to make sure you have a

(01:20:57):
good fit.
Yeah, you know, I probably, I probably would just say it's, it's a little, if you askpeople, should I partner with one of my friends?
Half the people you talk to, like, do not ever partner with friends or family.
And then you're going to talk to the other half and they're going to say, man, I partneredwith one of my friends and it was the best thing ever.

(01:21:19):
So I think it just takes a lot of prayer, but I would say whoever you partner with.
whether it's a close friend or whatever, you need to have a partnership agreement thatclearly outlines responsibility, accountability, what each partner brings to the table and
some stipulations in there where it's like, okay, well, what if you, what if you start inthe business and a year or two later you decide you don't really want to do it anymore and

(01:21:45):
you still own 50 % of the company.
Well, depending on how your partnership agreement is written, you may not be able to, youknow, that other partner may be able to go do something else and start another company or
work for somebody else.
And you're kind of saddled with the entire weight of the company all on your own operatingon an island and there's nothing you can do.
So make sure you've got a great attorney.

(01:22:08):
The devil's in the details.
So make sure you've got a partnership agreement that outlines where there's stipulationsand accountability and consequences.
If somebody, uh,
you know, basically breaches that contract agree that partnership agreement, whether it'sthrough a character issue or commitment issue or whatever it might be.
You
got to be smart about this stuff, man.

(01:22:29):
You got to pay a good attorney and you got to pay him well.
Okay.
That's some great advice that, I've always been afraid of ever bringing on a partner ordoing partnership because I've seen it go, go poorly.
So, it was encouraging to hear you, uh, open to the idea and welcome it even after havingsuffered the hands of it.

(01:22:52):
So, um, yeah.
Well, my favorite question, uh, man, we dove a lot into your background and your faith.
know this is a big part of it, but you're, you're obviously, uh,
a man of faith and that's an important thing to you.
Could you speak specifically to maybe how that has affected you as a leader and how you'veuh shaped your business, shaped relationships with employees?

(01:23:19):
What does that look like kind of in the office and how does your faith play out as aleader in your business?
Yeah, it's made a big difference on my relationships and I keep going back to that word,but as an unbeliever, I did not have healthy relationships.
I had a small circle of friends, couldn't maintain a uh healthy romantic relationship.

(01:23:43):
You know, I had a different girlfriend every three or four months.
I just didn't know how to get along with people and it was also really arrogant.
you know, spent a lot of time in the gym and thought that I was, you know, Mr.
Tough Guy and just, just had a real ego problem.
And so when I got saved, God, God started bringing people into my life.

(01:24:06):
Thank God.
Started bringing people around me to mentor me and disciple me to help me realize, Heyman, you need to chill out.
Like you're not more important than everybody here.
The opinions you have are not more important.
You need to learn some humility.
You need to learn how to be quick to slow to speak, slow to anger, quick to listen.

(01:24:27):
You need to be a good listener and take a genuine interest in other people and get to knowpeople like when you're around people or even asking them about themselves and what
they're up to and what they're interested in and what they're struggling.
Are you taking any time to get to know them at all?
And I wasn't.
You know, I got saved and went straight into teacher mode and you were there for me totell stuff.

(01:24:48):
And that's just such a lopsided way to live.
It's so warped.
And so God really changed that.
em that's really the biggest thing that God did in my life at Dallas Seminary.
I really don't think I went to Dallas Seminary to learn more theology.
I went to a great Bible college, learned a ton, and even had to read some of the samebooks at Dallas Seminary.

(01:25:11):
Don't get me wrong, Dallas Seminary is way more intense.
It's way more work.
But
I, it's another God story that I got.
I moved to Dallas Seminary purely on faith.
I didn't have any money to pay for seminary.
I didn't have any way to pay for rent.
And I tried to apply for all these different jobs.
The only job I got was a security type position at a church where it was for students.

(01:25:34):
Really?
You just sit at desk and read and get paid for it.
And that was like 15, 20 hours a week max.
but I felt led to go to Dallas Seminary.
I just, every time I prayed about it, I would just get the thought, just go, just go.
And I felt like I was losing my mind.
So I'm like, God, this doesn't make any sense.
I don't have any money for school.

(01:25:54):
Every time I talked to somebody about it and the conversation goes to, how are you goingto pay for that?
And I got so tired of saying, I don't know.
I just tried to avoid the topic.
And so I drive to Dallas Seminary on faith.
I do not have enough money for the first month's tuition.
On the way to Dallas Seminary from Houston to Dallas, my truck breaks down on the side ofthe road with steam coming out of the hood and the engine had blown.

(01:26:22):
And I remember standing on the side of the road saying, okay, God, like,
I've either run way ahead of you, I'm outside of your will, and this is a huge mistakebecause nothing's going right.
I haven't been able to get any job I wanted.
I haven't been able to secure any money.
And now my truck is broken down on the side of the road.
Or this is one of the biggest tests of my Christian faith that I've ever had.

(01:26:44):
And so I got up to Dallas Seminary.
I had some buddies come pick me up and take me up there.
I sold my truck for like three grand.
It was useless.
It was just for parts.
And I got up to Dallas Seminary and the job came up for apartment manager and I appliedfor the job and through God's providence got the job even though I've never managed an

(01:27:05):
apartment building before and they never gave that job to a first semester student before.
And overnight, overnight I went from struggling daily.
I was praying daily.
God, how am I going to buy groceries?
God, how am It was so stressful, man.
It was rough.
Overnight, I went from not having enough money to having free tuition because I wasfull-time at Dallas Seminary as an employee, uh free rent because I was apartment manager

(01:27:33):
and I had my own apartment, and a salary.
Everything, the entire burden was lifted away all at once.
And I just remember thinking, wow, God, you had this plan the whole time.
And I was so stressed out.
And then the way God used that is he didn't just help me financially.

(01:27:54):
When it's your job to interact with 400 other people on a daily basis who all know you byname, other seminary students, you know, I moved to Dallas as a kind of a Pharisee.
I thought I knew more than anybody else.
I thought I was holier than anybody else.
I thought I was doing more ministry than anybody else.
I mean, I was really unteachable, arrogant, know, intense, hard to be around.

(01:28:20):
one by one I would interact with these other residents and God would be like, I would justhave this thought like, man, look at that guy, he's so different than you and look at how
God worked in his life.
Look at how God's using him.
look at her, look at her the way she got saved in her story and look at this guy from, youknow, the Bahamas and look at this guy from.

(01:28:41):
India and look at this guy from that, you know, played football in college.
I mean, just one after the next, God was like, look at the diversity in my body, man.
None of these people are like you and I love them all and they're all being used by me indifferent ways.
And you've got this cookie cutter way you think it looks to be faithful to me and you'reit's so flawed.

(01:29:01):
And I had to spend hours and hours and hours with all these residents.
And I knew it was an issue.
So I was praying a lot about it.
I was praying, God, please teach me how to love people well, because I don't know how todo that.
And God really used my time at Dallas Seminary to where by the time I was done, I actuallyloved being around people and had a genuine interest in people.

(01:29:24):
Like really enjoyed getting to know them.
And that was a foreign experience to me, like prior to being at Dallas Seminary and Goddoing that work.
So that's the biggest way he's changed my life is enabling me to love people and take agenuine interest in people and be humble too.
Like there's no boasting.
There's no,

(01:29:44):
There's no superiority and there's no need to prove yourself.
Like that's such a thing of the world to be able to show yourself as more impressive inone way or another.
Yeah.
man, that's great.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
So this has been awesome.
I love uh hearing about your business and your journey.
uh We have one classic segment.

(01:30:08):
I know you're not a trades practitioner, but we still got to ask the cordless tool debate.
If you got to grab a cordless tool, what brand are you reaching for?
Man, mean, Milwaukee's great, but I'm a woodworker.
And so if you want to talk track saws and you want to talk diversity among tools, I mean,I think it's really hard to beat Makita, man, their whole setup.

(01:30:37):
I mean, they've just got an incredible lineup of tools.
So I'm a big Makita fan.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, thank you.
really appreciate it.
And this really has been a pleasure for me.
I've enjoyed chatting with you and hearing your story and it's really encouraged me andgiven me a lot to think about and some ways that I can grow as a leader and a man of God.

(01:31:01):
And man, I just really appreciate your time and thank you for joining us.
So thank you very much.
Yeah, thanks for having me on, man.
Really enjoyed it.
Awesome.
You have a great day and thank you guys for joining us here at the From the Ground Upshow.
If you want to join us on a future show, if you have a question you want to ask of anexpert or a practitioner of the trades, please write in.

(01:31:26):
You can find us on social media or on our website and we'll see you with the next one.
Thanks, Dylan.
Thanks a lot.

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Dylan McCabe - From Special Ed to Seminary and Eventually a National Roofing Group

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dylan McCabe - From Special Ed to Seminary and Eventually a National Roofing Group