September 2, 2025 • 30 mins
Feeling trapped in the Google advertising hamster wheel? You're not alone. As contractors face rising ad costs and diminishing returns from traditional search marketing, many are desperately seeking alternatives—but fear venturing into unfamiliar territory.
This episode dismantles the myths surrounding lead aggregation platforms like Yelp, Thumbtack, Angie, and Nextdoor. Rather than dismissing these platforms based on outdated perceptions or single negative experiences, we explore how they function as digital versions of neighborhood referrals—connecting homeowners seeking trusted service providers with qualified contractors.
Nick Miller of Viral joins Crystal to share game-changing insights about what makes these platforms work. The conversation reveals that success hinges on three critical factors: patience (giving platforms enough time to show consistent results), speed-to-lead (responding within 60 seconds, not minutes), and proper budget allocation (understanding the threshold for meaningful participation in your specific market).
What emerges is a compelling case for diversification. While no platform delivers perfect leads every time, incorporating these lead sources into a holistic marketing strategy creates stability when viewed over time. The discussion addresses common operational hurdles, like CSR training and response protocols, while providing practical metrics to evaluate performance beyond simple revenue tracking.
Whether you're struggling with Google's rising costs or simply looking to expand your lead generation approach, this episode offers a fresh perspective on often-overlooked opportunities. By approaching these platforms with realistic expectations and strategic implementation, contractors can break free from single-source dependency and build more sustainable growth.
Ready to rethink your lead generation strategy? Listen now and discover how to make lead aggregators work for your contracting business.
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From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com
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We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Oh, what's up?
Lemonheads, welcome to anotherepisode of From the Yellow Chair
.
I am Crystal and today listen,I know, contractors that y'all
are chasing down those leads.
I know it, I know it.
I lived that life.
I completely understand.
But today we're going to diginto something that some people
have some strong feelings about.
(00:31):
This.
It could be considered a littlecontroversial, but what if we
could generate leads?
What if we knew a source foryou that did not include the G
word and you weren't trying tospend all of your money there?
What if you were able toseparate out some of that spend
to still have an intentionalstrategy on lead generation that
got you off the hamster wheelthat you're probably living on?
(00:54):
You're going to want to buckleup and listen to this, because
I'm probably going to, alongwith my guest, make you think a
little differently about somelead aggregators today.
So I can't wait for us to talk.
So get ready, settle in andlet's sip some lemonade.
All right, guys, I am superexcited.
I just had to do a little doublecheck for my own self to make
(01:14):
sure I really understood,because we are doing great
things with Nick and his teamover at Viral.
They're helping contractors doexactly what I just mentioned,
which is manage all of these.
I call them lead aggregatorsNick's probably going to correct
me on that but basically all ofthe places that homeowners can
(01:34):
go and try to source a trustedservice provider and how his
team helps you manage that.
Nick, you know I start out withmy podcast a lot of times with
why should anybody listening tothis call care what you have to
say today?
Yeah, nick, you know I startout with my podcast a lot of
times with why should anybodylistening to this call care what
you have to say today?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah Well, they probably shouldn't listen to me
because you know of my position,but in reality I just I think
knowledge is power and I think alot of these platforms have
really bad reps.
I think that Google is gettingyou know, potentially worse for
a lot of people and they'relooking for leads elsewhere, and
(02:10):
so I just would love to educatehere today and talk about you
know, there might be some otheroptions for you.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, absolutely.
And here's the deal.
Right now, people are like oh,it was terrible, everybody was
getting the same leads.
I would never do leadaggregators again.
I hate that.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know we've all heard it.
But honestly, just like I talkabout everything, there's a time
and a place, and all marketingworks when it's done correctly
and intentionally.
And so when you utilize thesethings, you're right, you're
(02:37):
going to talk to your buddy whokills it on Yelp.
Well, when you come to find outthey're in the middle of Los
Angeles, california, they shouldbe killing it on Yelp.
Right, I live in the middle ofPodunkies, texas.
90% of people here don't evenknow what Yelp is.
But it doesn't mean that I don'tneed to at least explore those
lead gen opportunities,especially and I know y'all are
(02:58):
going to get sick of me sayingthis word today but with a
strategy and with a vendorpartner that understands the
importance of speed to lead andexecution and things like that.
So you know why do we, ascontractors, put so much of our
ad budget and our dependency inGoogle?
And it's because we feel likewe can at least trust it.
Now many of you are like no,ma'am, I do not trust anything
(03:22):
going on over there.
They just spend my money and Ican't find anything to it.
Listen, it happens to me allthe time with contractors.
But you know, I think that dueto rising ad costs, right, seo
burnout and, honestly, let'scall it confusion right now
between the AI and all the stuffthat's coming in, people don't
know what to do with SEO andthen just like where all of the
(03:44):
digital people in our space are,like there's an algorithm
update and I'm like listen me,and algorithms.
I hate algorithms.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Don't mix, well, right.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And you're at most contractors are like listen, I'm
just trying to run a goodcompany, you and your algorithms
can kick rocks Right, so butwhy do you think?
Do you think it's like, are youlike me?
Do you just think it's becausethey?
It's?
The easy way to launch intoadvertising is just jump on
Google.
What do we think?
I?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
think, I think it's the most talked about, for sure,
I mean everybody, yeah, it's,it's it's been once again
trusted, loosely defined, um,for the longest time.
But I do think there's so muchuncertainty right now and where
the direction of the searchengines are going, or the LLMs,
(04:30):
where the AI searches are goingto pull from, etc.
That the problem is is thatthese contractors are going to
have to figure out how todecipher the truth out of this
right, because there's going tobe, you know, there's obviously
always the agencies or peoplewho are going to take advantage
of, you know, the lack ofknowledge.
So I think it's a superimportant time to you know,
(04:51):
focus on understanding.
You know how things are workingand, yeah, I agree, Like it's a
comfort place.
I also think like a lot ofpeople just get burned in a lot
of different areas.
One time in their tenure, intheir 20 years of business, they
tried it once and it didn'twork and they're never going to
(05:13):
try it again.
I think we definitely have todo some forgiving here, because
I think, because of thatuncertainty, we want to try to,
you know, find our place andfind that certainty.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah.
So I agree with that.
I agree that a lot of times,people like a lot of people.
They'll call them and see andthey're just like, well, you
know, I know I need to be doingGoogle and I'm like, well, you
also need to be doing Microsoft,bing, you also need to be doing
social media.
We need to be all doing a lotof things, but you're right, I
think it is definitely a comfortspace.
So I think what I learned aboutviral that I want to talk about
specifically today is notnecessarily your product, which
(05:50):
I love your products but I wantto talk about is how do we feel
about this myth style idea thatthose leads are junk leads or
that they're just tire kickersand things like that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, I think we have to.
We have to, you know, kind ofhave a reality check in that
there's no perfect lead platform, right, Like, look at what LSA
is doing, we all knew it wascoming, but they're, they're
starting to get into the leadsharing model rather than a, you
know, individual Google localservice ads are like no, you
don't just get one now, you getfour, right, and obviously
(06:24):
they're not doing that with allof them, but it's, it's always
going to be evolving, especiallyif there's money to be made
from these platforms.
Um, I think you know the, thecontractors.
They need to understand thatthere is going to be the fluff
in there.
There's going to be the tirekickers.
You don't care about those,right, like, you're, you're not
in it for the person who's justlooking for the lowest cost.
(06:46):
Of course, there's going to bethose people out there.
It's the you know 10,.
You know people that comethrough that just needed done,
it's an emergency and it's goingto be a 30,000 to $50,000
ticket and and they just theywant it now.
And so if you have 90% of yourleads that are coming in that
are completely garbage you cannever follow up with again, but
(07:09):
that 10% is bringing that itshouldn't really make a
difference.
Right, I understand you want tobe efficient and obviously
that's the point long term, butreally efficiency is a really
hard thing to achieve right nowbecause of that unknown that
we've been talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, and you know, again, it's very hard to track.
Digital things are super hard totrack.
So the good news here is, I dothink with some of these lead
aggregation softwares likeThumbtack, yelp, angie, nextdoor
you know, I think it's a gameright and they all have their
own idiosyncrasies, littleunique things that suck about
them and the things that reallyare great with them, you know,
(07:46):
for them Next door, I've learned, to me is literally like
building a neighborhood, likeyou're building a community, I
think Yelp like when I look atYelp and I think of Yelp now
again, I'm from rural East Texas, so we don't even use you I
feel fancy when I get to go to acity that utilizes Yelp because
I'm a review reader, especiallyon things like restaurants and
(08:08):
stuff like that, so I can seethe pull for homeowners to go
look on Yelp to see what otherpeople are saying, because we
trust other people, because weconstantly as consumers feel
manipulated and tricked and soldto, so we're naturally more
apprehensive.
And tricked and sold to, sowe're naturally more
apprehensive.
And so these apps are actuallykind of wrapping the consumer in
(08:30):
confidence and like what theyfeel like are true referrals,
like old school, like tell myneighbor, right, how much I like
.
So these are just digital.
Tell your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
But nobody's, nobody's, nobody's doing that
anymore, right?
Nobody's talking to theirneighbor, Nobody's going on, and
not for that, we're too busy.
We're too, you know, staring atour phone or whatever.
We're too digital, I mean it is.
So you know that's the be thatuh, everywhere.
And you know, obviously reviewsare really bad word, especially
(09:06):
for everybody who hates Yelp,because that's the number one
reason that they're not going tolike it.
But at the same time, justbecause you don't like something
in the way it's done doesn'tmean that, pete, that the
consumers on the end are goingto utilize it.
So it's like you can say, oh,I'm never going to do that.
They, you know, high reviews orwhatever.
But at the same time, if that'swhere all your you know, your,
(09:29):
your clients, your customers aregoing to get that information,
you're just going to be okaywith your business sitting there
looking like it's, you know, ina back alley in a basement
versus you know, really showingwho you are, and I know that's.
You know the branding pieceobviously you guys, I know, have
talked about a ton why that'sso important, right?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, and you know, there's just something about a
good understanding and havingclear expectations of what
you're getting into.
So many people have unrealisticexpectations of performance and
that there is just this line ofperfection that what do you
mean?
Like all my marketing companiesare screwing me over and and
I'm just like it's yourexpectations.
(10:12):
That's like eating a salad andbeing like, okay, well, I'm not
skinny today, not skinny right.
You're like okay, there's gottabe.
You gotta have someexpectations here and understand
what you gotta go through withthese things.
Well, and I know I didn'treally prep you for this
question, but you know, what doyou think are like if you had to
pick a couple of things thatare imperative to being
(10:33):
successful inside of this styleof lead aggregation softwares?
What do you think are the two,two or three things that
contractors really need to havetheir their mindset around,
maybe even just likeunderstanding about them that
most that you think contractorsare missing?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Um, I'm going to start out with patience, um,
which, like you had just alludedto, a lot of people are like,
oh, this doesn't work, and theypull the.
They, you know they try it oncefor a month and it doesn't work
, and then they got to pull itout, right.
And then they're like I knowthat didn't work for me, right?
Um, I think you know thingsthat contractors should have
should be patience, um, andorganization on their end, right
(11:13):
, like speed, the lead,obviously super important.
How your CSR team is followingup with these leads.
The service that you'reproviding to the customers is
probably second most important.
You know, we there.
There's a uh example that gotbrought to me not too long ago
(11:34):
where they were on Thumbtack andYelp and maybe one of the
platform.
It was Angie and Angie waspretty consistent as far as
results go.
Um, but the the first fourmonths.
There was one month where Yelpwas at you know a ridiculous
amount, right?
They had gotten a couple ofhuge jobs from.
They were 10, 20, x, whatever.
(11:54):
Thumbtack was at zero, right,and there would be people who
would just pull that platformbecause they're like I wasted a
couple thousand dollars thismonth in this platform.
I don't want to do it again,but the very, the very next
month it flip-flopped.
Yelp did next to nothing, andthen Thumbtack was doing the 10
to 20 X and so it went back andforth through, you know, four to
(12:15):
six months and really still is.
I think that happens with a lotof clients.
I think they, you know.
That's why the patience is thekey, because when you zoom out
right and you look, it's justlike looking at the stock market
, right.
If you're looking at onemicroscope particular day, you
might see the stock plummetingand you're like this is a bad
stock, right.
But if you zoom out to thefive-year, and it is, you know,
(12:37):
up and to the right consistently, that's all that we look for in
that matter.
So I think the patience pieceis the most important giving the
channels the appropriate timeto grow and optimize.
I know optimize is like anothertrigger word for a lot of
people because they don'tunderstand it.
(13:00):
But I think, but it's true,right, because you know, and
back to the other trigger word,algorithm, like these are the
things that the consistency thatwe have to find in these
different platforms so that wecan, you know, as an aggregate,
provide that consistency,because it's not going to be
consistent from one particularplatform.
(13:20):
And I think you know, branchingfrom what we started with,
which was you know why arepeople looking for other places
than Google?
It's because they are notgetting that consistency.
People, you know, can't spendthe budgets they want in local
service ads, or their PPC costsare getting double, tripled and
they're getting less leads andthey're just searching and they
can't find that consistency.
So I think the more, uh, themore platforms that you have in
(13:44):
place, the more consistency thatyou can find as a whole, maybe
not on an individual platformbasis, which is why it's, I
think, most important to notjust, once again, only find one
other one, but have multiple.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, I love that.
So I'm all about diversifying.
So you know, one of the biggestissues that we see at Lemon
Seed is that people come in andlike all of their eggs are in
one basket, kind of like you'rementioning, like they're all in
one spot and all of their budgetgoes there and they don't have
any money to at least give alittle love.
And so one thing is sometimescontractors spend so little
(14:18):
money that it's wasted.
Sometimes they're drasticallyoverspending, and so those of
you that are listening, likethis, what we're talking about
today is a great way todiversify your spend for new
customer acquisition.
This is a straight up bottom ofthe funnel, the very tip of the
funnel.
These people are falling out ofthe funnel, ready, ready to buy
(14:41):
, and so many of you are scaredof this because it is about
speed and it is about efficiency.
And so there is lots ofintegrations Again, another
trigger word.
We have set up trigger wordsfor y'all.
Today we're going to have atrigger warning at the front,
but on integrations, there are alot of ways that you can
utilize platforms that willintegrate in there.
(15:03):
So as soon as those leads comeacross, you're able to capture
them.
You train your CSR teams toknow how to capture, know how to
get the lead booked and go outon them, and you can't build a
business around the outliers.
So are there crappy leads thatcome through these different
platforms, through the Yelps andthe next stores, and all of
that, of course.
(15:23):
But let me tell you thisthere's crappy leads coming
through Facebook ads andgeofencing and retargeting.
They're all.
They're all.
It's all a crap shoot sometimes, right?
So you just have to be readyfor that.
Well, I love, I love what we'retalking about here.
So I want to lay down into kindof that same thing.
Like it does matter how quicklywe respond to the style of
leads, or is that a myth thatI've heard?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
No, I think, absolutely.
Speed to lead is a hundredpercent the name of the game,
and obviously everybody saysspeed to lead, but like, well,
what does that mean?
Right?
And so I think, um, you know,especially on platforms that are
, you know, sharing leads, whichis the majority of these
platforms, right, they're alltrying to make money too.
Um, you, you have to be in theirinbox in you know 60 seconds or
(16:09):
less, because I have people allthe time tell me well, you know
, I have a really good team,they'll get to it in 10, under
10 minutes.
And I say, yeah, but what ifsomeone else from another
company gets to it in one minute?
Like, your, 10 minutes is great, especially on Yelp.
Everybody, you know, everybodywho is familiar with Yelp and
the request to quote processknows that 10 minutes is the
lowest amount of time it'll show, so great, it looks like you're
(16:31):
really fast to it.
But that doesn't mean you'recapturing the people who need it
now.
Now, obviously there's going tobe the people who don't, but
yeah, but we live in aninstantaneous world.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So, listen, I'm going to let me step on some toes.
I love to do this.
Some of y'all will neversurvive this.
Y'all don't have, you, yourowners, you don't have any sense
of urgency and you're not goingto require your team to have
urgency.
So let me and Nick go ahead andtell you to not Nick, if I
speak for you at a turn, youjust jump in here.
Don't waste your money on theseproducts.
(17:01):
If you are not going toprioritize the urgency of
response, if that's not your jam, don't even go over here.
Hang up Like don't even go.
Stop listening now, Well nothang up, like don't even go,
stop listening now, 100%, andI'm saying that because I don't
want you to have theseunrealistic expectations.
Or my favorite one is be madLike you're mad when I'm like
(17:22):
listen for you to do this.
You're over here telling us youdon't have leads, which would
mean I don't have a CSR.
That's busy, but now we havethe audacity to ask them to work
quickly.
You see where that dog doesn'thunt here in East Texas.
So the issue that we've got toworry about here is you have to
have the right mindset that youknow you're being intentional
(17:43):
about the strategy of launchingthis style of program.
And then, when you utilizevendors like Viral who help you
manage these whole things, letme tell you what all you have to
worry about is making sure yourteam handles the leads well
when they come in.
That is your part of the.
Y'all are a dynamic duo onDancing with the Stars and all
(18:03):
we need you to do is follow allright.
You don't even have to lead orchoreograph, just follow the
leader Just literally call, makea call.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
That's basically all we're trying to get to right.
We're trying to automateeverything on the front end to
make it as seamless as possible,and then all you have to do is
make the phone call.
And I think that's where thetranslation can get lost.
Is that if they're not supercommitted to the cause, right,
then they're like oh great, Igot all these leads.
(18:34):
And then they're like but theywere terrible, they didn't close
.
Well, okay, how fast did youcall them?
Right?
Oh, we call them, you know, thenext day.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I mean, we're highly offended, we're highly offended,
and I'm like it happens all thetime.
Contractors like I need moreleads and I'm like, okay, start
outbound calling.
Oh well, my CSRs are busy.
I'm like, doing what you justtold me, no one was calling.
And again, this comes fromunrealistic expectations on
advertising tactics, and so youknow I can beat it to death.
(19:02):
But let me ask this what aresome key metrics, nick, that we
could use as contractors to knowthat this style of, let's say,
we're pretty good at responseResponse is not an issue?
What are some key indicators toknow if we need to add more
money to our spend, because youknow what happens.
Right, as contractors, we gettwo or three good leads and
we're like, nick, here's all ofour money.
(19:23):
So how do we kind of managethat?
What are some good keyperformance indicators for these
things?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, I think every platform is going to be super
different.
Right, your cost per lead foreach platform, especially when
Yelp is more of a cost per clickmodel, versus Thumbtack and
Angie are going to be more of acost per lead model.
I do think they should, youknow, fall in line with, you
know, on an average basis acrossthe board.
I think the thing I think closerate does have a lot to do with
(19:55):
what you know.
You shouldn't come in expectinga really, really high one, but
if you are not getting a ton oflead volume and you're not
closing a lot of leads,obviously something's wrong.
And the things that we're goingto look at are going to be your
speed delete time, right.
(20:16):
So that's one indicator of howquickly are you getting to them.
But two, your overall budget.
You alluded to this a littlebit before.
Are you past that break pointof entry?
And I think it obviouslydepends on the city.
You can't go out in Californiaand spend $1,000 on Yelp and
expect a single lead.
It's just not going to happen.
(20:36):
You're burning your money,don't do it, waste it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
It's not enough.
Waste it, waste it.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You've got to be near the average.
You've got to be at least inthe ballpark, because there's
only so much business to goaround.
An average in California for aplumbing or HVAC contractor
might be 10,000, right?
So if you just can't do that,then that's not the platform for
you.
Then you got to go find anotherplatform that you might be able
to.
But, yeah, it's going to befiguring out that happy medium
(21:03):
of you know that you're past thepoint of entry, but you're not
wasting money, right?
You know there's the point ofdiminishing return as well.
So where, where's that middleground where we can, um, start
off and then, you know, take theladder up from there Once, once
we figure out and dial it in,um, that's, you know, working.
But I don't think.
(21:23):
I think conversion is probablythe one word that we would look
at most, and more so, like, notjust they looked at it, but they
actually, you know, either wentto the website, had a phone
call, you know, gave them, gaveyour phone number, etc.
Because those are the peoplewho are wanting the jobs, and so
(21:44):
that's the ones that we kind ofzero in on.
Ok, you have a phone number.
What did you do after that?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
This is why you can't just look at revenue.
You can't just look at revenue,because number one revenue is
your problem.
Contractor.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, not my problem.
It still is, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And here's why I say that If you actually are getting
bad leads and they truly won'tturn anything, then you should
be having a conversation withwho's helping you manage those
platforms.
This is where I mean about goodconversation and good
transparency here.
So, at the end of the day, asmarketers whether it's Viral or
(22:23):
Lemon Seed or whoever you'reusing for websites our job is to
help your phone to ring.
My specific job is to help morepeople get access to your
company in general.
But if you worry, I would worryabout conversion.
How many of the leads that camethrough from any of these
platforms was I able to actuallyconvert to a call?
And then start there.
(22:45):
Then start looking at revenue,right, because at the end of the
day, that's what we need tomake payroll and you know, pay
ourselves.
So then look at payroll.
And then I also would look atlike, what is my book, my
cancellation rate?
And the reason that you'rewatching those things is so that
you know, man, am Ioperationally, am I maximizing
every opportunity?
And so you start kind ofpivoting a little here and there
(23:08):
to make the perfect kind ofcocktail to win the day at this
space, and then you can holdyour managers like viral,
accountable in the sense of hey,this is what I'm showing.
Listen, I would put money onthis right now.
The majority of people at viralwould be so thankful for you to
communicate clearly to themwhat's working and not working
(23:28):
on the inside.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
A hundred percent.
Everything that you put into itis going to come out of it,
right.
So it's like it's.
You know, it's like training anew employee the more you work
with them, the more time youspend with them, the better
they're going to get.
So I think you know it's got tobe a back and forth.
You know we're going to.
We're going to see what we seeon our side.
We're going to see the revenue,we're going to see the clicks,
(23:49):
we're going to see theconversions and all of that.
But if you're saying, hey, Iknow this is converting a lot,
but you know the average ticketcost has been plummeting, right,
or something like that, thenit's like we need to know that
so we can pivot the strategy ormaybe look at a different
platform, because certainplatforms aren't providing that.
Yeah, there's a lot that goesinto it.
So I agree, it is once again.
(24:12):
Probably another misconceptionis, you know, oh, I just got to
have someone manage it and thenI can kick my feet up, right.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Oh, oh, yeah, Sorry, yeah, set it and forget it.
So that's why people hireLiving Seed.
Ok, because they're like Idon't want to focus on this, but
, ok, I think, both of us.
Today, I think our biggestencouragement to contractors is
try something different.
What if they're currently usingthese platforms right now, nick
?
What are some of the thingsthat you've seen?
(24:39):
Maybe some of your mostsuccessful contractors?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
doing?
Is it just ad spend?
Is it creative offers?
Biggest, you know, nugget thatI could probably drop is that
you want to make sure that allthese platforms represent your
company how you want yourcompany to be represented.
Right, they are a secondemployee to you and so, yeah,
you want to make sure that itappears something that someone
(25:13):
wants to.
You know, grab off the shelf,right, if you're just another.
You know Yelp is a primeexample.
You go to HVAC, for you know,dallas, texas.
You scroll down, you see sevenout of 10 ads are a picture of.
You know, and I'm like it's notsexy, it's not, I'm sorry, like
(25:34):
it.
Why is that setting you apart?
You all have the same thing onthere, right?
So you got to set yourselfapart a little bit.
You know.
I think the secondary piece isgoing to be figuring out that
budget.
I think you know you can.
You can have an audit pulledwhether we help you with that or
kind of just looking into whatthe industry is doing and in in
(25:57):
that aspect, you can figure outwhere the waste is If you are
super under, super over, likethat's another primary thing,
especially if they're spending.
I will tell one more quickstory here about and I won't
tell the name cause I would feelbad but I pulled an audit for a
contractor and they were in amarket that was similar to what
(26:18):
you were saying not yourCalifornia market, right, where
there's not the most inventorybut there's still enough to be
dangerous.
Right, they were spending$10,000 in ads on a Yelp, but
once again, in a normal market,that would be fine In this
particular market.
I was like, wow, that seemsreally high, right.
And so we dug in and figuredout some competitors' spend and
(26:44):
their average spend was closerto like $1,500, like the top
three competitors.
So they were burning $8,000 amonth without knowing it, and
and they were getting similarlead volumes as these
competitors.
So that's just like you know.
That's obviously the contrary.
Where it's like you're, you'reoverspending and maybe that's
google that you're overspendingon or maybe that's, you know, a
(27:06):
different platform that youmight be wasting on.
Um, I think that's the point is, you know it's, it's got to be
super intentional.
It can't be set it and forgetit, and you have to look at
everything holistically and tryto figure out where all the
puzzle pieces can fall.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, I love that.
I love it.
Holistically is like my wholemantra, because marketing
holistically is definitely thetrick to having an overall
winning mentality.
Because marketing will beat youup.
Ok, if you look at marketing,by the minute you'll be like I
hate everything, fire everybody,start all over again, you know,
(27:42):
and that's just.
You have to look at it inlarger time frames and you have
to be more patient All thethings you mentioned earlier.
So well, listen, nick, ifpeople are like, ok, I'm willing
to do this, I just don't knowwhat to do.
If you're a LemonSeed client,remember, we're happy to make
the connection for Viral and wedo cool things, like create cool
graphics, instead of you stucklike it, looking like everybody
(28:03):
else.
But LemonSeed would actuallywork with Viral to help create a
really cool strategy thataligns with every other vendor
partner that you're using.
But, nick, tell them how to getin contact with you.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
So as far as my emailnickmiller at viralcom, you guys
can also visit our website.
You know would love to justeven have a conversation.
It doesn't have to be anythingserious, it can just be like hey
, let me pull some audits, letme see if you're overspending in
those areas.
Let's look at all theseplatforms Once again.
(28:36):
Everybody's area is going to besuper different If they're in
the Midwest versus the EastCoast versus the West Coast.
All these platforms havedifferent abilities, inventories
, levers.
So I think it's important tojust, once again, knowledge is
power.
So if we can look into that foreveryone and kind of give them
(28:58):
that guide, they can either godo it themselves or they can
obviously have us do it.
I think you know the number onething that we're going to help
with a little bit more is on theattribution side.
We do have a reportingdashboard.
So I think our lead clouddashboard showing all the
revenue, showing whereeverything's coming from,
highlighting that transparency.
(29:19):
I think that's something that alot of contractors don't think
about.
They're just like, yeah, I'm,I'm on it, I'm there, I'm
spending, Um, but they don'tnecessarily see the full picture
in the full circle If they havethat thousand foot view at all
times.
It makes them a lot morecomfortable in the longterm.
So I think, uh, yeah would loveto have those conversations and
(29:41):
hopefully you guys aren't tooscared to reach out.
But, um, it's a big first stepbecause I, I, I put a lot of
those, uh, those trigger wordsout there.
Um, so I, I, uh, I know it's ahard first step, but I think
that there's a lot of room togrow with these platforms for a
lot of clients.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
Listen, contractors, if yourmarketing plan starts and ends
with Google, it might be time tomix that up.
Let us get strategic for you.
There are real customers outthere on other platforms that,
if you can, and it's the righttime for your business, stop
overlooking this coolopportunity and get in the mix
there.
Thank you, nick Miller fromViral, for joining me today.
(30:19):
Listen, we adore.
We have a great partnershiphere and so, if anyone, we can
both connect you to each other,so reach out and let us know how
we can help.
Thanks for sipping lemonadefrom the yellow chair and we
will see you next time.
Oh, what's up?
Lemonheads, welcome to anotherepisode of From the Yellow Chair
.
I am Crystal and today listen,I know, contractors that y'all
are chasing down those leads.
I know it, I know it.
I lived that life.
I completely understand.
But today we're going to diginto something that some people
have some strong feelings about.
(00:31):
This.
It could be considered a littlecontroversial, but what if we
could generate leads?
What if we knew a source foryou that did not include the G
word and you weren't trying tospend all of your money there?
What if you were able toseparate out some of that spend
to still have an intentionalstrategy on lead generation that
got you off the hamster wheelthat you're probably living on?
(00:54):
You're going to want to buckleup and listen to this, because
I'm probably going to, alongwith my guest, make you think a
little differently about somelead aggregators today.
So I can't wait for us to talk.
So get ready, settle in andlet's sip some lemonade.
All right, guys, I am superexcited.
I just had to do a little doublecheck for my own self to make
(01:14):
sure I really understood,because we are doing great
things with Nick and his teamover at Viral.
They're helping contractors doexactly what I just mentioned,
which is manage all of these.
I call them lead aggregatorsNick's probably going to correct
me on that but basically all ofthe places that homeowners can
(01:34):
go and try to source a trustedservice provider and how his
team helps you manage that.
Nick, you know I start out withmy podcast a lot of times with
why should anybody listening tothis call care what you have to
say today?
Yeah, nick, you know I startout with my podcast a lot of
times with why should anybodylistening to this call care what
you have to say today?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah Well, they probably shouldn't listen to me
because you know of my position,but in reality I just I think
knowledge is power and I think alot of these platforms have
really bad reps.
I think that Google is gettingyou know, potentially worse for
a lot of people and they'relooking for leads elsewhere, and
(02:10):
so I just would love to educatehere today and talk about you
know, there might be some otheroptions for you.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, absolutely.
And here's the deal.
Right now, people are like oh,it was terrible, everybody was
getting the same leads.
I would never do leadaggregators again.
I hate that.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know we've all heard it.
But honestly, just like I talkabout everything, there's a time
and a place, and all marketingworks when it's done correctly
and intentionally.
And so when you utilize thesethings, you're right, you're
(02:37):
going to talk to your buddy whokills it on Yelp.
Well, when you come to find outthey're in the middle of Los
Angeles, california, they shouldbe killing it on Yelp.
Right, I live in the middle ofPodunkies, texas.
90% of people here don't evenknow what Yelp is.
But it doesn't mean that I don'tneed to at least explore those
lead gen opportunities,especially and I know y'all are
(02:58):
going to get sick of me sayingthis word today but with a
strategy and with a vendorpartner that understands the
importance of speed to lead andexecution and things like that.
So you know why do we, ascontractors, put so much of our
ad budget and our dependency inGoogle?
And it's because we feel likewe can at least trust it.
Now many of you are like no,ma'am, I do not trust anything
(03:22):
going on over there.
They just spend my money and Ican't find anything to it.
Listen, it happens to me allthe time with contractors.
But you know, I think that dueto rising ad costs, right, seo
burnout and, honestly, let'scall it confusion right now
between the AI and all the stuffthat's coming in, people don't
know what to do with SEO andthen just like where all of the
(03:44):
digital people in our space are,like there's an algorithm
update and I'm like listen me,and algorithms.
I hate algorithms.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Don't mix, well, right.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
And you're at most contractors are like listen, I'm
just trying to run a goodcompany, you and your algorithms
can kick rocks Right, so butwhy do you think?
Do you think it's like, are youlike me?
Do you just think it's becausethey?
It's?
The easy way to launch intoadvertising is just jump on
Google.
What do we think?
I?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
think, I think it's the most talked about, for sure,
I mean everybody, yeah, it's,it's it's been once again
trusted, loosely defined, um,for the longest time.
But I do think there's so muchuncertainty right now and where
the direction of the searchengines are going, or the LLMs,
(04:30):
where the AI searches are goingto pull from, etc.
That the problem is is thatthese contractors are going to
have to figure out how todecipher the truth out of this
right, because there's going tobe, you know, there's obviously
always the agencies or peoplewho are going to take advantage
of, you know, the lack ofknowledge.
So I think it's a superimportant time to you know,
(04:51):
focus on understanding.
You know how things are workingand, yeah, I agree, Like it's a
comfort place.
I also think like a lot ofpeople just get burned in a lot
of different areas.
One time in their tenure, intheir 20 years of business, they
tried it once and it didn'twork and they're never going to
(05:13):
try it again.
I think we definitely have todo some forgiving here, because
I think, because of thatuncertainty, we want to try to,
you know, find our place andfind that certainty.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah.
So I agree with that.
I agree that a lot of times,people like a lot of people.
They'll call them and see andthey're just like, well, you
know, I know I need to be doingGoogle and I'm like, well, you
also need to be doing Microsoft,bing, you also need to be doing
social media.
We need to be all doing a lotof things, but you're right, I
think it is definitely a comfortspace.
So I think what I learned aboutviral that I want to talk about
specifically today is notnecessarily your product, which
(05:50):
I love your products but I wantto talk about is how do we feel
about this myth style idea thatthose leads are junk leads or
that they're just tire kickersand things like that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, I think we have to.
We have to, you know, kind ofhave a reality check in that
there's no perfect lead platform, right, Like, look at what LSA
is doing, we all knew it wascoming, but they're, they're
starting to get into the leadsharing model rather than a, you
know, individual Google localservice ads are like no, you
don't just get one now, you getfour, right, and obviously
(06:24):
they're not doing that with allof them, but it's, it's always
going to be evolving, especiallyif there's money to be made
from these platforms.
Um, I think you know the, thecontractors.
They need to understand thatthere is going to be the fluff
in there.
There's going to be the tirekickers.
You don't care about those,right, like, you're, you're not
in it for the person who's justlooking for the lowest cost.
(06:46):
Of course, there's going to bethose people out there.
It's the you know 10,.
You know people that comethrough that just needed done,
it's an emergency and it's goingto be a 30,000 to $50,000
ticket and and they just theywant it now.
And so if you have 90% of yourleads that are coming in that
are completely garbage you cannever follow up with again, but
(07:09):
that 10% is bringing that itshouldn't really make a
difference.
Right, I understand you want tobe efficient and obviously
that's the point long term, butreally efficiency is a really
hard thing to achieve right nowbecause of that unknown that
we've been talking about.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Yeah, and you know, again, it's very hard to track.
Digital things are super hard totrack.
So the good news here is, I dothink with some of these lead
aggregation softwares likeThumbtack, yelp, angie, nextdoor
you know, I think it's a gameright and they all have their
own idiosyncrasies, littleunique things that suck about
them and the things that reallyare great with them, you know,
(07:46):
for them Next door, I've learned, to me is literally like
building a neighborhood, likeyou're building a community, I
think Yelp like when I look atYelp and I think of Yelp now
again, I'm from rural East Texas, so we don't even use you I
feel fancy when I get to go to acity that utilizes Yelp because
I'm a review reader, especiallyon things like restaurants and
(08:08):
stuff like that, so I can seethe pull for homeowners to go
look on Yelp to see what otherpeople are saying, because we
trust other people, because weconstantly as consumers feel
manipulated and tricked and soldto, so we're naturally more
apprehensive.
And tricked and sold to, sowe're naturally more
apprehensive.
And so these apps are actuallykind of wrapping the consumer in
(08:30):
confidence and like what theyfeel like are true referrals,
like old school, like tell myneighbor, right, how much I like
.
So these are just digital.
Tell your neighbors.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
But nobody's, nobody's, nobody's doing that
anymore, right?
Nobody's talking to theirneighbor, Nobody's going on, and
not for that, we're too busy.
We're too, you know, staring atour phone or whatever.
We're too digital, I mean it is.
So you know that's the be thatuh, everywhere.
And you know, obviously reviewsare really bad word, especially
(09:06):
for everybody who hates Yelp,because that's the number one
reason that they're not going tolike it.
But at the same time, justbecause you don't like something
in the way it's done doesn'tmean that, pete, that the
consumers on the end are goingto utilize it.
So it's like you can say, oh,I'm never going to do that.
They, you know, high reviews orwhatever.
But at the same time, if that'swhere all your you know, your,
(09:29):
your clients, your customers aregoing to get that information,
you're just going to be okaywith your business sitting there
looking like it's, you know, ina back alley in a basement
versus you know, really showingwho you are, and I know that's.
You know the branding pieceobviously you guys, I know, have
talked about a ton why that'sso important, right?
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, and you know, there's just something about a
good understanding and havingclear expectations of what
you're getting into.
So many people have unrealisticexpectations of performance and
that there is just this line ofperfection that what do you
mean?
Like all my marketing companiesare screwing me over and and
I'm just like it's yourexpectations.
(10:12):
That's like eating a salad andbeing like, okay, well, I'm not
skinny today, not skinny right.
You're like okay, there's gottabe.
You gotta have someexpectations here and understand
what you gotta go through withthese things.
Well, and I know I didn'treally prep you for this
question, but you know, what doyou think are like if you had to
pick a couple of things thatare imperative to being
(10:33):
successful inside of this styleof lead aggregation softwares?
What do you think are the two,two or three things that
contractors really need to havetheir their mindset around,
maybe even just likeunderstanding about them that
most that you think contractorsare missing?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Um, I'm going to start out with patience, um,
which, like you had just alludedto, a lot of people are like,
oh, this doesn't work, and theypull the.
They, you know they try it oncefor a month and it doesn't work
, and then they got to pull itout, right.
And then they're like I knowthat didn't work for me, right?
Um, I think you know thingsthat contractors should have
should be patience, um, andorganization on their end, right
(11:13):
, like speed, the lead,obviously super important.
How your CSR team is followingup with these leads.
The service that you'reproviding to the customers is
probably second most important.
You know, we there.
There's a uh example that gotbrought to me not too long ago
(11:34):
where they were on Thumbtack andYelp and maybe one of the
platform.
It was Angie and Angie waspretty consistent as far as
results go.
Um, but the the first fourmonths.
There was one month where Yelpwas at you know a ridiculous
amount, right?
They had gotten a couple ofhuge jobs from.
They were 10, 20, x, whatever.
(11:54):
Thumbtack was at zero, right,and there would be people who
would just pull that platformbecause they're like I wasted a
couple thousand dollars thismonth in this platform.
I don't want to do it again,but the very, the very next
month it flip-flopped.
Yelp did next to nothing, andthen Thumbtack was doing the 10
to 20 X and so it went back andforth through, you know, four to
(12:15):
six months and really still is.
I think that happens with a lotof clients.
I think they, you know.
That's why the patience is thekey, because when you zoom out
right and you look, it's justlike looking at the stock market
, right.
If you're looking at onemicroscope particular day, you
might see the stock plummetingand you're like this is a bad
stock, right.
But if you zoom out to thefive-year, and it is, you know,
(12:37):
up and to the right consistently, that's all that we look for in
that matter.
So I think the patience pieceis the most important giving the
channels the appropriate timeto grow and optimize.
I know optimize is like anothertrigger word for a lot of
people because they don'tunderstand it.
(13:00):
But I think, but it's true,right, because you know, and
back to the other trigger word,algorithm, like these are the
things that the consistency thatwe have to find in these
different platforms so that wecan, you know, as an aggregate,
provide that consistency,because it's not going to be
consistent from one particularplatform.
(13:20):
And I think you know, branchingfrom what we started with,
which was you know why arepeople looking for other places
than Google?
It's because they are notgetting that consistency.
People, you know, can't spendthe budgets they want in local
service ads, or their PPC costsare getting double, tripled and
they're getting less leads andthey're just searching and they
can't find that consistency.
So I think the more, uh, themore platforms that you have in
(13:44):
place, the more consistency thatyou can find as a whole, maybe
not on an individual platformbasis, which is why it's, I
think, most important to notjust, once again, only find one
other one, but have multiple.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, I love that.
So I'm all about diversifying.
So you know, one of the biggestissues that we see at Lemon
Seed is that people come in andlike all of their eggs are in
one basket, kind of like you'rementioning, like they're all in
one spot and all of their budgetgoes there and they don't have
any money to at least give alittle love.
And so one thing is sometimescontractors spend so little
(14:18):
money that it's wasted.
Sometimes they're drasticallyoverspending, and so those of
you that are listening, likethis, what we're talking about
today is a great way todiversify your spend for new
customer acquisition.
This is a straight up bottom ofthe funnel, the very tip of the
funnel.
These people are falling out ofthe funnel, ready, ready to buy
(14:41):
, and so many of you are scaredof this because it is about
speed and it is about efficiency.
And so there is lots ofintegrations Again, another
trigger word.
We have set up trigger wordsfor y'all.
Today we're going to have atrigger warning at the front,
but on integrations, there are alot of ways that you can
utilize platforms that willintegrate in there.
(15:03):
So as soon as those leads comeacross, you're able to capture
them.
You train your CSR teams toknow how to capture, know how to
get the lead booked and go outon them, and you can't build a
business around the outliers.
So are there crappy leads thatcome through these different
platforms, through the Yelps andthe next stores, and all of
that, of course.
(15:23):
But let me tell you thisthere's crappy leads coming
through Facebook ads andgeofencing and retargeting.
They're all.
They're all.
It's all a crap shoot sometimes, right?
So you just have to be readyfor that.
Well, I love, I love what we'retalking about here.
So I want to lay down into kindof that same thing.
Like it does matter how quicklywe respond to the style of
leads, or is that a myth thatI've heard?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
No, I think, absolutely.
Speed to lead is a hundredpercent the name of the game,
and obviously everybody saysspeed to lead, but like, well,
what does that mean?
Right?
And so I think, um, you know,especially on platforms that are
, you know, sharing leads, whichis the majority of these
platforms, right, they're alltrying to make money too.
Um, you, you have to be in theirinbox in you know 60 seconds or
(16:09):
less, because I have people allthe time tell me well, you know
, I have a really good team,they'll get to it in 10, under
10 minutes.
And I say, yeah, but what ifsomeone else from another
company gets to it in one minute?
Like, your, 10 minutes is great, especially on Yelp.
Everybody, you know, everybodywho is familiar with Yelp and
the request to quote processknows that 10 minutes is the
lowest amount of time it'll show, so great, it looks like you're
(16:31):
really fast to it.
But that doesn't mean you'recapturing the people who need it
now.
Now, obviously there's going tobe the people who don't, but
yeah, but we live in aninstantaneous world.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
So, listen, I'm going to let me step on some toes.
I love to do this.
Some of y'all will neversurvive this.
Y'all don't have, you, yourowners, you don't have any sense
of urgency and you're not goingto require your team to have
urgency.
So let me and Nick go ahead andtell you to not Nick, if I
speak for you at a turn, youjust jump in here.
Don't waste your money on theseproducts.
(17:01):
If you are not going toprioritize the urgency of
response, if that's not your jam, don't even go over here.
Hang up Like don't even go.
Stop listening now, Well nothang up, like don't even go,
stop listening now, 100%, andI'm saying that because I don't
want you to have theseunrealistic expectations.
Or my favorite one is be madLike you're mad when I'm like
(17:22):
listen for you to do this.
You're over here telling us youdon't have leads, which would
mean I don't have a CSR.
That's busy, but now we havethe audacity to ask them to work
quickly.
You see where that dog doesn'thunt here in East Texas.
So the issue that we've got toworry about here is you have to
have the right mindset that youknow you're being intentional
(17:43):
about the strategy of launchingthis style of program.
And then, when you utilizevendors like Viral who help you
manage these whole things, letme tell you what all you have to
worry about is making sure yourteam handles the leads well
when they come in.
That is your part of the.
Y'all are a dynamic duo onDancing with the Stars and all
(18:03):
we need you to do is follow allright.
You don't even have to lead orchoreograph, just follow the
leader Just literally call, makea call.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
That's basically all we're trying to get to right.
We're trying to automateeverything on the front end to
make it as seamless as possible,and then all you have to do is
make the phone call.
And I think that's where thetranslation can get lost.
Is that if they're not supercommitted to the cause, right,
then they're like oh great, Igot all these leads.
(18:34):
And then they're like but theywere terrible, they didn't close
.
Well, okay, how fast did youcall them?
Right?
Oh, we call them, you know, thenext day.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I mean, we're highly offended, we're highly offended,
and I'm like it happens all thetime.
Contractors like I need moreleads and I'm like, okay, start
outbound calling.
Oh well, my CSRs are busy.
I'm like, doing what you justtold me, no one was calling.
And again, this comes fromunrealistic expectations on
advertising tactics, and so youknow I can beat it to death.
(19:02):
But let me ask this what aresome key metrics, nick, that we
could use as contractors to knowthat this style of, let's say,
we're pretty good at responseResponse is not an issue?
What are some key indicators toknow if we need to add more
money to our spend, because youknow what happens.
Right, as contractors, we gettwo or three good leads and
we're like, nick, here's all ofour money.
(19:23):
So how do we kind of managethat?
What are some good keyperformance indicators for these
things?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, I think every platform is going to be super
different.
Right, your cost per lead foreach platform, especially when
Yelp is more of a cost per clickmodel, versus Thumbtack and
Angie are going to be more of acost per lead model.
I do think they should, youknow, fall in line with, you
know, on an average basis acrossthe board.
I think the thing I think closerate does have a lot to do with
(19:55):
what you know.
You shouldn't come in expectinga really, really high one, but
if you are not getting a ton oflead volume and you're not
closing a lot of leads,obviously something's wrong.
And the things that we're goingto look at are going to be your
speed delete time, right.
(20:16):
So that's one indicator of howquickly are you getting to them.
But two, your overall budget.
You alluded to this a littlebit before.
Are you past that break pointof entry?
And I think it obviouslydepends on the city.
You can't go out in Californiaand spend $1,000 on Yelp and
expect a single lead.
It's just not going to happen.
(20:36):
You're burning your money,don't do it, waste it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
It's not enough.
Waste it, waste it.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
You've got to be near the average.
You've got to be at least inthe ballpark, because there's
only so much business to goaround.
An average in California for aplumbing or HVAC contractor
might be 10,000, right?
So if you just can't do that,then that's not the platform for
you.
Then you got to go find anotherplatform that you might be able
to.
But, yeah, it's going to befiguring out that happy medium
(21:03):
of you know that you're past thepoint of entry, but you're not
wasting money, right?
You know there's the point ofdiminishing return as well.
So where, where's that middleground where we can, um, start
off and then, you know, take theladder up from there Once, once
we figure out and dial it in,um, that's, you know, working.
But I don't think.
(21:23):
I think conversion is probablythe one word that we would look
at most, and more so, like, notjust they looked at it, but they
actually, you know, either wentto the website, had a phone
call, you know, gave them, gaveyour phone number, etc.
Because those are the peoplewho are wanting the jobs, and so
(21:44):
that's the ones that we kind ofzero in on.
Ok, you have a phone number.
What did you do after that?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
This is why you can't just look at revenue.
You can't just look at revenue,because number one revenue is
your problem.
Contractor.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, not my problem.
It still is, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And here's why I say that If you actually are getting
bad leads and they truly won'tturn anything, then you should
be having a conversation withwho's helping you manage those
platforms.
This is where I mean about goodconversation and good
transparency here.
So, at the end of the day, asmarketers whether it's Viral or
(22:23):
Lemon Seed or whoever you'reusing for websites our job is to
help your phone to ring.
My specific job is to help morepeople get access to your
company in general.
But if you worry, I would worryabout conversion.
How many of the leads that camethrough from any of these
platforms was I able to actuallyconvert to a call?
And then start there.
(22:45):
Then start looking at revenue,right, because at the end of the
day, that's what we need tomake payroll and you know, pay
ourselves.
So then look at payroll.
And then I also would look atlike, what is my book, my
cancellation rate?
And the reason that you'rewatching those things is so that
you know, man, am Ioperationally, am I maximizing
every opportunity?
And so you start kind ofpivoting a little here and there
(23:08):
to make the perfect kind ofcocktail to win the day at this
space, and then you can holdyour managers like viral,
accountable in the sense of hey,this is what I'm showing.
Listen, I would put money onthis right now.
The majority of people at viralwould be so thankful for you to
communicate clearly to themwhat's working and not working
(23:28):
on the inside.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
A hundred percent.
Everything that you put into itis going to come out of it,
right.
So it's like it's.
You know, it's like training anew employee the more you work
with them, the more time youspend with them, the better
they're going to get.
So I think you know it's got tobe a back and forth.
You know we're going to.
We're going to see what we seeon our side.
We're going to see the revenue,we're going to see the clicks,
(23:49):
we're going to see theconversions and all of that.
But if you're saying, hey, Iknow this is converting a lot,
but you know the average ticketcost has been plummeting, right,
or something like that, thenit's like we need to know that
so we can pivot the strategy ormaybe look at a different
platform, because certainplatforms aren't providing that.
Yeah, there's a lot that goesinto it.
So I agree, it is once again.
(24:12):
Probably another misconceptionis, you know, oh, I just got to
have someone manage it and thenI can kick my feet up, right.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Oh, oh, yeah, Sorry, yeah, set it and forget it.
So that's why people hireLiving Seed.
Ok, because they're like Idon't want to focus on this, but
, ok, I think, both of us.
Today, I think our biggestencouragement to contractors is
try something different.
What if they're currently usingthese platforms right now, nick
?
What are some of the thingsthat you've seen?
(24:39):
Maybe some of your mostsuccessful contractors?
Speaker 2 (24:50):
doing?
Is it just ad spend?
Is it creative offers?
Biggest, you know, nugget thatI could probably drop is that
you want to make sure that allthese platforms represent your
company how you want yourcompany to be represented.
Right, they are a secondemployee to you and so, yeah,
you want to make sure that itappears something that someone
(25:13):
wants to.
You know, grab off the shelf,right, if you're just another.
You know Yelp is a primeexample.
You go to HVAC, for you know,dallas, texas.
You scroll down, you see sevenout of 10 ads are a picture of.
You know, and I'm like it's notsexy, it's not, I'm sorry, like
(25:34):
it.
Why is that setting you apart?
You all have the same thing onthere, right?
So you got to set yourselfapart a little bit.
You know.
I think the secondary piece isgoing to be figuring out that
budget.
I think you know you can.
You can have an audit pulledwhether we help you with that or
kind of just looking into whatthe industry is doing and in in
(25:57):
that aspect, you can figure outwhere the waste is If you are
super under, super over, likethat's another primary thing,
especially if they're spending.
I will tell one more quickstory here about and I won't
tell the name cause I would feelbad but I pulled an audit for a
contractor and they were in amarket that was similar to what
(26:18):
you were saying not yourCalifornia market, right, where
there's not the most inventorybut there's still enough to be
dangerous.
Right, they were spending$10,000 in ads on a Yelp, but
once again, in a normal market,that would be fine In this
particular market.
I was like, wow, that seemsreally high, right.
And so we dug in and figuredout some competitors' spend and
(26:44):
their average spend was closerto like $1,500, like the top
three competitors.
So they were burning $8,000 amonth without knowing it, and
and they were getting similarlead volumes as these
competitors.
So that's just like you know.
That's obviously the contrary.
Where it's like you're, you'reoverspending and maybe that's
google that you're overspendingon or maybe that's, you know, a
(27:06):
different platform that youmight be wasting on.
Um, I think that's the point is, you know it's, it's got to be
super intentional.
It can't be set it and forgetit, and you have to look at
everything holistically and tryto figure out where all the
puzzle pieces can fall.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, I love that.
I love it.
Holistically is like my wholemantra, because marketing
holistically is definitely thetrick to having an overall
winning mentality.
Because marketing will beat youup.
Ok, if you look at marketing,by the minute you'll be like I
hate everything, fire everybody,start all over again, you know,
(27:42):
and that's just.
You have to look at it inlarger time frames and you have
to be more patient All thethings you mentioned earlier.
So well, listen, nick, ifpeople are like, ok, I'm willing
to do this, I just don't knowwhat to do.
If you're a LemonSeed client,remember, we're happy to make
the connection for Viral and wedo cool things, like create cool
graphics, instead of you stucklike it, looking like everybody
(28:03):
else.
But LemonSeed would actuallywork with Viral to help create a
really cool strategy thataligns with every other vendor
partner that you're using.
But, nick, tell them how to getin contact with you.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah.
So as far as my emailnickmiller at viralcom, you guys
can also visit our website.
You know would love to justeven have a conversation.
It doesn't have to be anythingserious, it can just be like hey
, let me pull some audits, letme see if you're overspending in
those areas.
Let's look at all theseplatforms Once again.
(28:36):
Everybody's area is going to besuper different If they're in
the Midwest versus the EastCoast versus the West Coast.
All these platforms havedifferent abilities, inventories
, levers.
So I think it's important tojust, once again, knowledge is
power.
So if we can look into that foreveryone and kind of give them
(28:58):
that guide, they can either godo it themselves or they can
obviously have us do it.
I think you know the number onething that we're going to help
with a little bit more is on theattribution side.
We do have a reportingdashboard.
So I think our lead clouddashboard showing all the
revenue, showing whereeverything's coming from,
highlighting that transparency.
(29:19):
I think that's something that alot of contractors don't think
about.
They're just like, yeah, I'm,I'm on it, I'm there, I'm
spending, Um, but they don'tnecessarily see the full picture
in the full circle If they havethat thousand foot view at all
times.
It makes them a lot morecomfortable in the longterm.
So I think, uh, yeah would loveto have those conversations and
(29:41):
hopefully you guys aren't tooscared to reach out.
But, um, it's a big first stepbecause I, I, I put a lot of
those, uh, those trigger wordsout there.
Um, so I, I, uh, I know it's ahard first step, but I think
that there's a lot of room togrow with these platforms for a
lot of clients.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Oh yeah, absolutely so.
Listen, contractors, if yourmarketing plan starts and ends
with Google, it might be time tomix that up.
Let us get strategic for you.
There are real customers outthere on other platforms that,
if you can, and it's the righttime for your business, stop
overlooking this coolopportunity and get in the mix
there.
Thank you, nick Miller fromViral, for joining me today.
(30:19):
Listen, we adore.
We have a great partnershiphere and so, if anyone, we can
both connect you to each other,so reach out and let us know how
we can help.
Thanks for sipping lemonadefrom the yellow chair and we
will see you next time.
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