April 15, 2025 • 39 mins
Digital marketing frustrates many contractors, but what if the secret isn't finding the perfect channel—but creating a powerful strategy where everything works together?
Tim Brown, CEO of Hook Agency, joins Crystal to unpack what truly makes digital marketing work for home service businesses. Unlike marketers who guard their "secret sauce," Tim shares candidly about SEO challenges in the age of AI, why most contractors struggle with online presence, and how small businesses can compete against industry giants.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Tim explains why a strong brand multiplies the effectiveness of every marketing dollar you spend. "If you're more memorable and distinct, every single piece of marketing you put out will have a higher ROI," he says. This isn't just about logos—it's about infusing your reputation into symbols customers immediately recognize when they need you.
For contractors feeling overwhelmed by marketing options, Tim provides a clear starting point: master your Google Business Profile before expanding to other channels. The strategy is refreshingly simple yet powerful: "Every homeowner is going to review me. I'm going to figure out how to get every homeowner to review me." Companies following this approach often surpass established competitors who neglect this fundamental step.
Beyond tactics, Tim shares candid insights from scaling his own agency, including the challenges of building culture and the "law of the lid"—recognizing that a company's growth is limited by its leader's personal development. These lessons provide valuable perspective for contractors navigating their own growth journeys.
Ready to transform your approach to digital marketing? Listen now and discover how to create marketing momentum that competitors can't match. The difference isn't just what you do—it's how strategically you combine all your marketing elements to build an unstoppable presence.
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From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com
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We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up, lemonheads ?
Welcome to another episode ofFrom the Yellow Chair.
I'm Crystal and I cannot waitto talk about digital marketing
today because, contractors, Iknow what you're thinking is I
hate digital marketing, butlisten, it's one of the most
complex and the most, I think,one of the biggest trigger
(00:20):
things that most contractorsdeal with, at least that's who's
coming to LemonSeed.
But I'm here to tell you thereare some great agencies out
there and I'm going to talk toone of them today who not only
do I love their own marketingstrategy, but I love what they
do.
My personal roofing company isutilizing them.
So, guys, it's going to be agreat conversation, digging in
to listen to how he grew hiscompany, the things that they
(00:42):
are doing to be fantastic forthe trades, his company, the
things that they are doing to befantastic for the trades.
So you're definitely going towant to sit down, grab a seat or
put it on cruise control,whatever you're doing right now,
because we are really going todig down deep into digital
marketing today.
So, joining me today in thevirtual lemonade stand is Tim
(01:09):
Brown, which I call you Tim Hookall the time, which is fine,
but he is the CEO of Hook Agency, a digital marketing powerhouse
company that I think and he maycorrect me here in a second but
kind of really got his vibegoing in the roofing industry.
Now he's moved into almost allhome services, doing really
(01:29):
great websites and SEO, killercontent, great looks, things
that are converting.
So, tim, I know you're allabout giving tradespeople and
contractors the tools they need,so tell me a little bit about
yourself.
Like why should any of mylisteners care what you have to
say today?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
yeah, I think our difference as far as like being
on podcasts and stuff like likethis and why to listen, is I
generally try to give everythingI possibly can away.
I'm never I'm not the, the guythat tries to withhold secrets.
So I might say a bunch of thestuff that we do that's
excellent, but I'm also going totry to give you tips on how to
(02:08):
do it.
As far as hook agencies, je nesais quoi, if you will, it's
kind of a consistent pursuit ofexcellence and that means
sometimes pushing into the scaryparts like what is roi on
marketing, and like being kindof fearless and pushing in and
(02:31):
like, really, if it's, if theroi is not good, we're going to
look at it and we get reallykind of diligent on on looking
at what's paying and what's notwith marketing and yeah well, we
uh, we've kind of.
Lastly, we've been in thetrenches, we've been, we've, you
know, I've been on roofsinstalling roofs.
(02:51):
I've we've uh been out on jobsites with installing hvac units
and and water heaters anddifferent things.
I'm trying to really actuallyunderstand what's the actual
value being provided tohomeowners and why is a company
special at the very core of itand sometimes sometimes I've
(03:13):
zoomed in and felt what we coulddo better too, which you and I
were just talking about on ourpodcast, about yeah sometimes
marketers job is to actuallyhelp upgrade the service, which
is it's a it's a real thing.
But our difference is kind ofbeing in the trenches and um,
being niched and and looking atthe ROI even if it's bad, and
(03:38):
getting getting fearless.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, you know, living Seed sits in that same
kind of boat.
You know, I come from thetrades, so I mean I came from
literally working inside of myfamily's heating and air
conditioning company and just weadded plumbing and I went
through acquisitions, and so youknow, when you live down in the
trenches and or at least you'veattempted to be exposed to what
their everyday life looks like,the more we know about the
(04:09):
services that our clientsprovide, the better we can
articulate the messaging and thepositioning, and there's really
a lot of power in that.
So I'm super happy to hear yousay that, because you know, I
know there's a lot of greatagencies in the space for the
digital side, the website side,and for a lot of contractors.
When I ask them like, tell meabout your marketing strategy,
(04:30):
the first thing they list out istheir digital provider, which a
lot of times is a great company.
But when I can really separatewhat I would say the men from
the boys, it's when I'mlistening to vendors who are
actually seeking to understandwhat the homeowner is going
through and what the contractorhas to do to provide those needs
, and so I love to hear that.
Well, I know that you yourselfhave like this personal journey.
(04:53):
If I understood right, you werelike a designer.
Until now you're an agencyowner.
So how did you get started withthe agency, like, how did you
decide this is what you neededto do?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, I think, like you know, dreamed in college.
I kind of I wanted to have this.
I just didn't know that youwere allowed to go out on your
own directly out of college.
I kind of wish I had at thetime, you know, but I went and
worked for somebody else, uh,and I kind of learned.
I learned a bunch of stuff thatI'm glad I learned.
(05:23):
So I'm kind of, I guess I'mglad I went out and worked for a
different agency and stuff likethat.
But I dreamed of, I dreamed of aplace where I could be like
just wild, like a lot ofcreativity, right.
And I think originally I, likeyou know, when you're little, do
you ever, when you're little,make like a diagram of your
ideal mansion?
Did you ever do that?
(05:44):
I don't know if they do that inTexas, we did it in a little
church in Minnesota.
We'd be sketching our weird bigmansion that we wanted to have
one day, with a water slide fromthe bedroom.
And I think, like when I was incollege, I kind of diagrammed
what I'd want my office to looklike and it was gonna have a
(06:06):
video space and a music spaceand just different kind of
components.
And so I dreamt big and I think, um, now you know, even though
we only have a, you know, here,there a guitar, we don't
actually have like a musicstudio, which was part of dream
A lot of the other things havebecome, have come true, where
(06:27):
we're doing this kind of moreintense creativity, and it's
it's a kind of a more funenvironment.
I think it's that's one of thebest parts about an agency, and
having an agency is likecreating a fun environment where
everyone's kind of beingcreative together and coming up
with wild, crazy ideas.
(06:48):
So that's what I like aboutjust having a business like this
.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, well, you know when kind of the same thing,
like you knew, you probablycould help contractors really
tackle one of the biggesthurdles.
So, just in digital, whenlimited, helping contractors
figure out a strategy for how toorganize their marketing spend.
You know, of course a largechunk of that goes toward
digital and so there's such aneed for it, and I encourage
(07:15):
clients all the time like youshould interview these different
agencies before you just signon to one.
So you know, just because 50people recommend them on social
media does not mean there's notsome great ones out there, but
one of the things that I thinkpeople would enjoy about
watching you guys.
You have your own vibe.
It's very much like I mentionedto you the other day, like a
(07:36):
navigator style, like someonewalking you along through all
the steps of onboarding withHook and things like that.
So I think there's just so muchpower in what you're saying
really trying to understand,dreaming big and doing things
that really you know help thecontractor at the end of the day
.
But every great business startswith solving like real problems
(07:58):
, and I think that you reallyfound your niche there with
niche there, with contractorsneeding leads and a good digital
thing.
So well, let's get into themeat of websites and SEO and all
of that good stuff and I knowyou and I talked the other day
like a good brand is great anddefinitely will help other
things perform better.
(08:18):
But let's get down in the weedsa little bit about.
Maybe, if I can talk with youabout your strategy for actual
conversions on seo, like wheredo you think we're headed um for
search engine optimization andthings like that right now.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Where are we headed?
Hmm, kind of a little bit intothe it's.
It's unclear at the moment howlong into the future SEO is
going to be a viable strategy, Ithink.
I think that it's a.
You know, look at the, the AIthings, the, the AI overviews,
(09:01):
the zeroclick searches andthings like that I think is
stealing some market share asfar as the ability to just crank
up traffic really quickly andthings like that.
I think it makes it morecompetitive for the things that
(09:22):
are there.
It is interesting.
I mean, google traffic is stillgrowing, you know.
Apparently it grew like 21 orthe amount of searches grew
about like 21% this last year.
It's not slowing down.
It seems like just there's moreand more people.
That it's.
You know, digital is life kindof thing, but I think it becomes
(09:44):
more difficult.
I think that SEO, as far asclear, like having complete
clarity or the ability to like,yeah, to predict, I think it's,
I think it's my, my ability topredict is probably lower than
it's been in ever.
(10:05):
On us, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So your answer and even your hesitation a little
bit there is because, man, Idon't think anybody really knows
.
Everybody's making their bestguess at this and you're right
with the oncoming of AI.
So you know AIO, automated, youknow artificial intelligence,
optimization, search engineoptimization.
(10:29):
Here's the hard part forcontractors.
You just have to be out there.
You have to be willing to do alot of things to see what works
and see what's going.
If you're looking for thismagic bullet that you're going
to call any marketer, they'regoing to say, man, if you are
doing this, you're going to growyour company.
Give me $10,000.
All of you would do it.
That's just not how easy it is.
(10:49):
And so what?
I think the learned lesson hereshould be that it is a
necessary evil, so trusting yourdigital provider to do some of
those strategies to keep you atthe top of whatever's changing.
You can always pivot as thingshappen.
But between Google and puttingout new algorithms all the time
and new updates and all theirstuff, with AI constantly
(11:12):
changing and becoming even moreof a, to me, I love it.
It's like a headache and ablessing at the same time.
But also there's still a lot ofimpact with that core pieces.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I think one thing is the note is like so
when people are coming from zeroto try to get those first like
hundred or a thousand clicks amonth, you know what I mean.
That part is scarier becauseyou you actually have to go
pretty hard for SEO.
I think, honestly, that's thethat's a huge thing is you have
(11:45):
to go harder than you've everhad to go to get those first
thousand clicks a month, versus,like, for a company that has a
thousand clicks a month.
What are we willing to do forthe next few thousand?
I think that that's an easierspot to be because you already
know that you have 20 leads or30 leads from SEO already.
(12:07):
I think that that's an easierplace to double down and I think
it's an easier place toactually make money is to double
down on things.
I think that's why you seeseasoned business owners saying
I want to invest quite a bit ofmoney into SEO is because they
already see 20, 30 leads comingfrom that direction.
(12:29):
I think that, like, honestly,that's a little bit more common
for us, like the, the absolutefrom scratch SEO right now, like
business owners trying to dothat.
I think our thing is tooexpensive, just to be honest and
it's the truth is.
The truth is, is that SEO isyou have to go hard to win, so
(12:50):
people that are scared to gohard to win Yesterday we talked
about how scared money don'tmake money, and I think knowing
your lead sources and thendoubling down on the ones that
work is always a good strategy.
Whether it's, you know, like, ifit's lsa or it's google ads or
(13:12):
it's google maps or it'straditional seo, it's recognized
like and I think of.
I think part of the thing is Idon't even consider us just an
seo provider.
I really think of us as like,well, we're like helping people
build leads, build leads and, um, so, as time goes on, like if
(13:33):
that's seo, we are veryaggressive, like we that's the
option for seo that we have isvery aggressive.
And then we have all theseother things on google and if,
if a aeo, if, if, uh, chat, ifAEO, if Chats and Petits gets
ads, I promise you will be oneof the first people to be on it,
you know, and to be providingthat service as well.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Well, so, okay, so we've got the website, we've got
the SEO.
We know all those basic thingsright.
We know we need to be there, weknow we need to be at least
like at the ring right, tryingto get in there and box around,
at least like at the ring right,trying to get in there and box
around.
But what do you think from adigital aspect, or some of the
biggest mistakes that we'reseeing home service contractors
make when it comes to onlinemarketing?
Do you think it's like lack ofbudget?
(14:18):
Is it just lack ofunderstanding numbers?
Where do you think we'regetting in trouble?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Not knowing your numbers is a big one Not knowing
what to double down on becauseyou haven't looked at lead
sources, and not owning yourmarketing.
Like to me, there's two ways tonot own your marketing you
don't know that you own yourwebsite, or you don't know if
you own your website or not.
You don't own your ad account.
You don't own your analytics,you don't sign in, you don't
(14:47):
look at your traffic.
You don't sign in, you don'tlook at your traffic.
And then, on the other side,you don't own your marketing in
the way that you're buying leads.
You're outsourcing everything.
You're thinking that an outsidecompany is going to save you,
(15:10):
not creating a brand and notbecoming.
I think of people becoming thegeneral contractor for their
marketing, so to speak, right,like actually owning the process
and then wielding these vendors.
And I know that you guys helpthem own their marketing right
and own it and takeresponsibility for it and stop
trying.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, we just know how hard.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I mean, we just know how hard it is to actually
organize and articulate a brandstory and calls to action, all
those things with thesedifferent providers.
And so, you're right, likeLiving Seed is built
specifically to do that and helpbuild brands that build leads,
that build legacies, that justkeep building on things.
And so I think the lesson thatwe're trying to learn here is
(15:48):
you know, we see thesecontractors all the time and
they'll start off with aterrible logo and a low budget
and they're like man, make magicout of this.
And you're like you're just,you're going to set yourself up.
We were talking to even my ownfamily, like we know, now we
start off building a logo,building a tagline, getting our
mascot, getting our jingle,getting our graphics together,
(16:10):
because we know if we can justhit the gas, we're going to
build, we're going to buildmomentum, and we roll over the
top of competition.
That's more scared or morereserved.
Same thing with the roofingcompany that I'm a part of.
She called me and said let's dosomething together.
We said yes, and then I said,listen, scared money don't make
(16:30):
money, so how much money do wegot?
And she was like well, let's,let's, let's get risky.
So I mean there is something tobe said, for you got to spend
money to make money.
There is no silver bullet,there is nothing that's going to
be this magic button.
It is everything independentlyis probably underperforming, but
it's putting everythingtogether that makes you know.
(16:54):
We just released a podcastcalled 2 plus 2 equals 5.
And that's because the sum ofeverything is much more
impactful than each pieceindividually.
So you know like right now, ifyou put all of your hope into
digital marketing, you're goingto be struggling because there's
not a lot of demand.
In Texas right now it's 70degrees.
For the two weeks of the yearthat it's going to be 70 degrees
(17:15):
.
And you know everybody's livingtheir best life.
They're not calling their HVACcompany, you know.
So I think that's a prettycommon thought there.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You know it's funny that you said that so boldly.
I agree 100%.
You know it's funny that yousaid that so boldly.
I agree 100%.
Everything by itself might seemlike it's underperforming, and
it's interesting because that'sactually what I kind of look at,
as I call it the five timesrule, where it's like we want to
(17:44):
hit the people five times indifferent ways and that's how it
performs.
Well, you know what I meanIndividually by itself, because
people don't take one piece ofmarketing in and then always
become a customer.
It's so many times where it'slike that person now knows you
from the five times that theysaw you and then makes a
(18:08):
decision to work with you.
So, but I love that idea oflike anyone could be
unperforming but it doesn't meanthat your overall marketing is
not working.
Yes, no.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And honestly, that's what we flipping built this
living seat on was man, youmight have bits and pieces.
A lot of people have all thepuzzle pieces.
They just don't know how.
Have all the puzzle pieces,they just don't know how to put
the puzzle together.
So you know, I mean that's justa big piece there of what
happens.
Well, okay, you and I did havea great conversation about this
(18:39):
as well.
So you know Living Seeds reallyworking hard to build more
brands.
So the graphic, like logos andband wraps and things like that
it's one of our core functions.
My business partner, emily thatis her skill by trade Just a
fantastic graphic designer,wonderful at casting a vision
(19:00):
for true brands, and so you andI had a great conversation about
how man those brands.
No matter what you do, if youhave a better, more memorable
brand, your digital performanceis going to be better.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, I agree 100%.
I think that I mean it's sofunny because it's obvious that
I believe that our logo one isintended to be iconic and be
able to be transferred anywhere.
Your guys' logo is really good.
It just immediately has afeeling in the brain, has like a
(19:32):
a feeling in the brain.
You know, like our name issuper short and punchy and it's
easy to remember hookagencycom,yeah.
but it's also I believe inbrands so much that, like we're
constantly doing things thatliterally are just to get people
in, our ideal customers, toremember the logo.
So we're constantly doing videoputting the logo as a watermark
on there.
We're going to events I'mpassing out waters where it's
(19:53):
just the logo.
So I believe in brands so muchbut for some reason it's kind of
hard to fully get contractorson board.
Home service businesses don'tknow sometimes if it's a way to
sell them marketing.
When people talk about brand,they think that maybe brand is a
(20:16):
fluffy nonsense thing from MadMen or something like that.
But what we can all understandis reputation and what I think I
really believe that's reallyhard to fully get people on
board with sometimes is that youinfuse your reputation into a
(20:37):
symbol and like I think aboutthe, the, the name of the
beatles.
Yeah, people didn't like thebeatles if, if you didn't know
all their music, the beatles iskind of a terrible band name
actually.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
But we infuse our logo and name with all these
great things.
So I know contractors and homeservice business out there are
obsessed with their reputationand doing great work.
That carries on and spreadsthrough word of mouth.
If we can attach that to asymbol, that's iconic, that is
just, that's just brand and itmakes every lead cheaper, so as
(21:21):
as we get more like clients thatoverlap between your, yours and
our company and I think thatit's building out that they want
leads.
I was just talking to our COOand we were talking about how
we're not selling SEO, we'reselling leads and winning.
We're selling winning and leads.
(21:42):
Right, that's what these guyswant to buy.
That's what people want to buy.
They want to buy winning andit's hard to fully explain.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
They want to be a part what people want to buy.
They want to buy a winning, andit's hard to fool.
They want to be a part.
People Contractors want to be apart of successful things.
So, especially when you can letthem see the vision of what you
do now, with everything thatyou do and you your own company,
and so when they can see thatyou're successful.
So same thing with homeowners.
You know, when homeowners areinteracting with your brand on
(22:10):
their customer journey and theysee vans that are clean and
sleek and modern, they seebillboards that are, you know,
trendy, maybe even, butdefinitely on brand and
reiterating something, they makeme feel something, whether it's
laughter or like oh I neverthought of that or just a
traditional feel when I'm out atmy kid's baseball game, do I
(22:30):
see that you're a supporter ofthose things.
Those are all things that Ithink contractors want to create
.
We need to create that and inreturn, we make ourselves more
noticeable, we make ourselvesmore memorable and it becomes a
definite differentiator betweenus and the person beside me.
So, tim, I know that withbranding, you know, like we were
(22:53):
saying, everybody wants to be apart of things that are
successful, companies that aresuccessful.
And so you know, when we see acontractor come to us with a
solid brand, we love to see that, because we know that they're
already going to be so many moresteps ahead.
There's so much more of a storythat we can say, there's so
many more unique spins that wecan take on it for content
(23:15):
writing and all of that.
And I know that you've probablyseen.
The more memorable a brand is,the better they perform in their
paid ads and all of those goodthings.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
I truly believe that if you'remore memorable and distinct,
right that every single piece ofmarketing that you put out will
have a higher ROI and brand isnot just the initial creation of
the logo too.
I think it's how you infuseyour reputation and how you
(23:48):
treat homeowners into the logo.
So I was talking about, liketheles is not really that great
of a name.
Actually I don't think if theirmusic wasn't so magical that we
wouldn't like that's a terriblename, actually, kind of.
But because it's great, um, weinfuse it and it's easy to
(24:12):
remember.
It's simple.
So easy to remember and simpleare such a big piece of this
Cause.
Otherwise, you got to say 10things on your truck wraps and
your and your billboards.
You got to say this is the name, this is thecom, this is the
phone number.
You know you have to just getget into all these things, but
if it's like clarity on what thename is, it's easy to remember
(24:32):
and here's what we do, then wecan find you.
So that to me is like a bigcomponent of why all your
marketing goes further, becauseI can recall just being able to
recall a name.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You know being able to just name them.
So I say this all the time whenI come in from you know soccer
practice and I walk in and Iopen my front door and the heat
just hits me.
In July in Texas, I don't wantto be thinking, man, I wish I
knew who to call.
I want everybody thinking Iwant to call the people with the
roadrunner, I want to call thepeople with the dog.
How do I get my name so much infront of people that they
(25:09):
immediately think about me?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Exactly, I agree, and I think, like you know, there's
the the beauty of talking aboutthe problems you solve too.
We think about the name, but we, I think, like related to this
is what we solve.
So even when I'm marketing, alot of times we market because
we're niche, our company isniche and we're marketing to
(25:33):
home service businesses.
I just want them to remember torefer us, people to refer us to
.
I'm not always marketing forleads, I'm marketing for
referrals, and so a lot of timesI'll tell people hey, if
somebody says they hate theirwebsite, we're a great referral.
If somebody feels like theydon't have clarity around what
(25:54):
they're getting from their SEOcompany, we're a great referral.
So it's like those problems too,and like reminding people of
the problems that you solve andthose are great headlines for
billboards.
Problems because problems keptlike they grab our attention.
And then when we remember, ohyeah, they said they they solve
(26:15):
your mouse problem, or you knowif it was pest control, or they
said that they you know if yourAC was leaking or you know, like
basically, the ability torecall what problems does this
company solve, I think is agreat like additional thing
beyond the name and the brand.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Absolutely, absolutely, definitely,
definitely.
A lot to think through on thatpiece, but really it's not as
hard as it sounds.
It's more about gettingcontractors to buy into that way
of thinking.
Cause, definitely it's, it's.
It's about contractors notbeing scared about all of those
things so another thing that weget.
(26:53):
We hear a lot from ourcontractors that might be on the
smaller side.
How do you think they even cancompete with these large
companies with online presence?
Do you think that they shouldLike?
What do you think?
Let's pretend like I'm a small,you know, smaller than 2
million, smaller than $3 millioncontractor, really trying to
get my online presence peaked up.
(27:14):
What do you think are some?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
great places for me to start.
Google business profile handsdown is the best place to start.
And yeah, because you can justget reviews, you know?
And no, it's no, they aren'tcharging you to get reviews.
It's it's hard to get thosecustomers, but as you get those,
if you think of it like everyhomeowner is going to review me,
I'm going to figure out a wayto get every homeowner to review
(27:38):
me.
You have so much opportunityright there.
It's funny.
Sometimes there will be acompany that's been around for a
while but they didn'tprioritize reviews.
You could right past them.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Every single homeowner is just you've made it
into a game.
You say, hey, no matter what,even if we don't work on your
system today, if I I'm able togive you a diagnosis here and
give you clarity around theproblem, I would love it if
you'd be willing to give us afive-star review today.
You know you can.
You can.
You don't have to have oh, Isold them an entire AC or entire
(28:16):
roof or entire you can.
You know, I was just talking toa roofer that was saying this
is like he was saying if I'mgoing to get up on your roof and
risk my life for this, I wouldlove it If, by the end of this,
even if we don't work with you,if you don't mind giving us five
star review.
There is reasons why, like, thevalue that you provide in your
(28:37):
diagnosis is enough for a fivestar review.
And yeah, people will say I'veheard it before like they're,
like I don't even know whatthey're doing over there.
They got 500 reviews and Idon't even.
They've only been around fortwo years.
They must be cheating.
It's like.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
No, they're not, they're not cheating.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
They're asking, and they're like asking every
homeowner every time, so most-.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, and follow-ups.
You know more than just onetime, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know people care somuch about those things.
And not only do people care inyour community, your target
market, but, heck, google's toldyou they care about reviews.
So, like, just intentionallybuilding out a strategy to help
you get there.
So start with Google businessand then add on GLSA and then
(29:23):
keep going for PPC or geofencingor geotargeting or retargeting,
like get with your digitalprovider to create a layered
plan and approach to get thatWell, okay, so I love talking
about that.
One thing that I've been reallyimpressed with you guys, and
you specifically, is you know,tell me a little bit about how
you grew, maybe Hook Agency,what were some things that you
(29:44):
like struggled with when youwere trying to scale?
Or you know, what did it looklike and what kind of advice
would you give to a contractortrying to scale their own
business?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think it's the first couple of people, it's
the hardest right and in mycase I hired my wife and
although there are drawbacks tothat, I couldn't recommend it
highly enough.
It's just, it's a risky move,obviously, like hopefully you,
like your spouse, but it's alsoscary, no matter what it's scary
, and it did cause issues in ourmarriage.
(30:15):
I don't want to say it with nocaveat, but it's also scary, no
matter what it's scary, and itdid cause issues in our marriage
.
So I don't want to like say itwith no caveat, but that was a
huge advantage because it's twopeople that really care about
each other, that are pushing thesame direction and it directly
benefits.
And then we can talk about iteven when we're at home, which
also has a drawbacks, but thatwas a big piece.
But those first couple of yearswe didn't have a real culture,
because you have like three,four, five people and it's
(30:37):
really hard to create culture.
And so first real employee Ihired, even though we hired a
few more after that.
He left after one year oftraining him like every day, day
in and day out, for all thetime.
I essentially ended up having totake that as a big gut punch
and I wanted to him and I wantedto blame everybody else, but
(30:58):
until I took full responsibilityfor that, I couldn't move
forward and I couldn't actuallymake a culture that I would want
to be part of.
So now it's.
There's a lot more things oflike trying to create culture
and telling our people thatthat's important and making
things that are cool for themand trying to make something of
(31:18):
substance and building traininginto our team, so like there's a
reason to stay around and thisplace develops its people.
So, but that took a while and Ihad to.
I came up with like a internalmotto around champion the
underdog and we put it up on thewall and we put it on shirts
(31:39):
and you know we talk aboutsmaller businesses competing.
We've always appreciatedsmaller businesses and really
like wanted to be part of likethe local hometown hero winning,
you know, and so we still have.
Most of our clients are not PEowned.
A lot of our clients are smallbusinesses.
A lot of them are competing ata higher level and have an
(32:00):
unfair advantage in themarketplace, and we take pride
in being scrappy and beingresourceful in our marketing.
I think that, as a businessowner, creating culture was
really hard, and I think noweven still it's hard.
It's hard because I want totell my team exactly why they
(32:21):
should buy in.
But if I'm not fully bought in,so lately something that relates
to this two or three years inchallenge has been like the law
of the lid oh yes.
Of like, oh yes, if I'm notgrowing as a human being, if I'm
not actually getting better andkind of like taking
uncomfortable steps to improveas a leader, then my people are
(32:44):
going to not buy in either.
Like, if I'm not bought in, whywould I expect them to be
bought in so lately?
It's been a little bit aroundlike trying to make moves that
would make me better as a leader, even though they are sometimes
really hard, and so I thinkthat that's the current
challenge.
The current challenge iswanting my team to be all in and
(33:09):
learning that I have to be alittle bit more all in.
Because at a certain point, it'slike we have so many good
things happening right, there'smomentum, and like as a business
owner, I could kind of like Icould rest a little.
I could rest a little.
Come on, I mean, I'm not justsaying rest, but I'm saying like
kind of loosen up on my why youknow what I mean.
Like it's going to be reallyhard to transfer that to my team
(33:37):
.
So that's the big challenge.
Now there's been so many otherones right, Like during COVID,
we had like employees leaving ata pace that was really
disconcerting.
You know, we improved ouremployee experience a lot, but
it tends to be around that a lot, but it tends to be around that
it tends.
Now the challenges are it tendsto be around like improving the
(33:58):
employee experience, which also, in turn, improves the client
experience, because there's moreof that operational memory.
We remember the challenge fromthree years ago, so we're
actually getting better at amuch faster pace.
And so it's kind of on meindirectly to make the client
(34:19):
experience better by making the,by making the employee
experience better, which is it'sa lot of work actually, and I
think there's no limit to howgood that could get from my
point of view.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh no, that's a great .
That's a great point.
So, caring about your team.
One thing that Emily said inone of our meetings was you know
we got to decide are we goingto be customer forward or client
or team member forward?
Because sometimes when you'retrying to make decisions for the
company like how does thisimpact our customers and how
does it impact our team Makingsure that we're remembering
those things when we're makinglong term decisions for our
(34:54):
companies is really important tokeep us you know, just to keep
us on on target for what we'retrying to accomplish as a
company.
So you don't want to be heldhostage by your team, but you
also need to know how to keep ateam and retain talent, and a
lot of that's hard.
You know a lot.
I've also heard, like,sometimes who the people that
are on your team that get you tothree million are not the ones
(35:15):
that'll get you to five, or notthe ones that'll get you to ten,
and so that's an interestingstatement as well, but you know
scaling like I'm not about, I'mnot a pushover when it comes to
team either.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like, we fire, you know like, and but it's like,
it's like the high performanceteam, like sports team, mindset,
it like, but the people thatare here have it pretty good,
and then we trim the fat.
You know, like, and I do thinkthat that's you can always
double down on the existing teamand make the experience better
if you do trim the fat, whichyou can't, if you hold on to all
(35:48):
the like C players.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, absolutely, no, absolutely.
And you know scaling I was justabout to say you know it's it's
about more than just gettingmore leads right.
It's about better leadership,better systems, staying
connected to your mission,vision and core values and like
putting processes and things inplace, and that's that's where
scaling comes in.
It's just managing the peopleand managing the fun, as I say.
(36:12):
So all right.
Well, listen, tim, if peoplewanted to get to know more about
you and like what it would belike to work with Hook Agency,
how would you like for them toreach out for you?
Any exciting things coming upfor you guys?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I'd love it if you connect with me at
facebookcom, slash Tim HookAgency, tim Hook Agency or just
Google Tim Hook, and then myFacebook will come up.
Or check out hookagencycom.
But yeah, big things coming up.
Well, it's a secret, but we'vegot a book coming out later this
(36:45):
summer.
Oh love, don't tell anyone,don't tell anyone.
It's called how to Become aHometown Hero a powerful guide
to home services marketing, andit has 28 different takes from
business owners as far as how tobuild connection, deep
connection with the community,and to leverage emotion and
(37:06):
persuasion to have much bettermarketing.
So it's kind of on the moreemotionally persuasive side of
marketing and no one needs to,no one should know about it yet.
But I just just for youraudience to want to hear that it
is coming, you know, come outAugust 1st.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Awesome, Well, congratulations.
I know that those aredefinitely a labor of love there
.
Yes, Well, guys, I just wantwell.
First of all, Tim, thank you somuch.
Like marketing changes fast and, but when you partner with
people that help you lead andnavigate those strategies and
help you stay committedcontractors, you will win and
(37:46):
you will stay relevant and juststay in the game.
Keep your head down, trust yourvendors.
But, Tim, thanks for hangingout with me today from talking
websites, SEO to leadership.
I think it was a great talktoday.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So I just want to reiterate for your audience.
I just want to note like webelieve in what you guys do.
It's a very, very importantposition in the market that you
know you guys are such.
You guys are kind of a unicornin the marketing world where
you're like this guide that ishelping people to do it better.
You're not just trying to likedo everything in house or
(38:25):
whatever.
You're creating this ability toown their marketing and to me
that is extremely honorable,very, very and difficult, I'm
sure, but I just want to say Ireally enjoyed that.
I think you guys, you guys areso needed for home service
businesses and so we reallyappreciate knowing you and get
to work, getting to work withyou on stuff and, as we have
(38:47):
more overlapping clients, I justthink we're really grateful to
be um part of your community aswell.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Well, thank you so much.
You are so kind and it is ablessing and it is a challenge,
but we're always up for it.
So well, thank you again, Tim,for being on here and, to my
listeners, if we would love foryou to leave us a review, make
sure you're following us on allof our social media channels and
thank you for listening toanother episode.
We will talk to you soon.
(39:14):
Thanks for sipping lemonadewith us.
Bye.
What's up, lemonheads ?
Welcome to another episode ofFrom the Yellow Chair.
I'm Crystal and I cannot waitto talk about digital marketing
today because, contractors, Iknow what you're thinking is I
hate digital marketing, butlisten, it's one of the most
complex and the most, I think,one of the biggest trigger
(00:20):
things that most contractorsdeal with, at least that's who's
coming to LemonSeed.
But I'm here to tell you thereare some great agencies out
there and I'm going to talk toone of them today who not only
do I love their own marketingstrategy, but I love what they
do.
My personal roofing company isutilizing them.
So, guys, it's going to be agreat conversation, digging in
to listen to how he grew hiscompany, the things that they
(00:42):
are doing to be fantastic forthe trades, his company, the
things that they are doing to befantastic for the trades.
So you're definitely going towant to sit down, grab a seat or
put it on cruise control,whatever you're doing right now,
because we are really going todig down deep into digital
marketing today.
So, joining me today in thevirtual lemonade stand is Tim
(01:09):
Brown, which I call you Tim Hookall the time, which is fine,
but he is the CEO of Hook Agency, a digital marketing powerhouse
company that I think and he maycorrect me here in a second but
kind of really got his vibegoing in the roofing industry.
Now he's moved into almost allhome services, doing really
(01:29):
great websites and SEO, killercontent, great looks, things
that are converting.
So, tim, I know you're allabout giving tradespeople and
contractors the tools they need,so tell me a little bit about
yourself.
Like why should any of mylisteners care what you have to
say today?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
yeah, I think our difference as far as like being
on podcasts and stuff like likethis and why to listen, is I
generally try to give everythingI possibly can away.
I'm never I'm not the, the guythat tries to withhold secrets.
So I might say a bunch of thestuff that we do that's
excellent, but I'm also going totry to give you tips on how to
(02:08):
do it.
As far as hook agencies, je nesais quoi, if you will, it's
kind of a consistent pursuit ofexcellence and that means
sometimes pushing into the scaryparts like what is roi on
marketing, and like being kindof fearless and pushing in and
(02:31):
like, really, if it's, if theroi is not good, we're going to
look at it and we get reallykind of diligent on on looking
at what's paying and what's notwith marketing and yeah well, we
uh, we've kind of.
Lastly, we've been in thetrenches, we've been, we've, you
know, I've been on roofsinstalling roofs.
(02:51):
I've we've uh been out on jobsites with installing hvac units
and and water heaters anddifferent things.
I'm trying to really actuallyunderstand what's the actual
value being provided tohomeowners and why is a company
special at the very core of itand sometimes sometimes I've
(03:13):
zoomed in and felt what we coulddo better too, which you and I
were just talking about on ourpodcast, about yeah sometimes
marketers job is to actuallyhelp upgrade the service, which
is it's a it's a real thing.
But our difference is kind ofbeing in the trenches and um,
being niched and and looking atthe ROI even if it's bad, and
(03:38):
getting getting fearless.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, you know, living Seed sits in that same
kind of boat.
You know, I come from thetrades, so I mean I came from
literally working inside of myfamily's heating and air
conditioning company and just weadded plumbing and I went
through acquisitions, and so youknow, when you live down in the
trenches and or at least you'veattempted to be exposed to what
their everyday life looks like,the more we know about the
(04:09):
services that our clientsprovide, the better we can
articulate the messaging and thepositioning, and there's really
a lot of power in that.
So I'm super happy to hear yousay that, because you know, I
know there's a lot of greatagencies in the space for the
digital side, the website side,and for a lot of contractors.
When I ask them like, tell meabout your marketing strategy,
(04:30):
the first thing they list out istheir digital provider, which a
lot of times is a great company.
But when I can really separatewhat I would say the men from
the boys, it's when I'mlistening to vendors who are
actually seeking to understandwhat the homeowner is going
through and what the contractorhas to do to provide those needs
, and so I love to hear that.
Well, I know that you yourselfhave like this personal journey.
(04:53):
If I understood right, you werelike a designer.
Until now you're an agencyowner.
So how did you get started withthe agency, like, how did you
decide this is what you neededto do?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, I think, like you know, dreamed in college.
I kind of I wanted to have this.
I just didn't know that youwere allowed to go out on your
own directly out of college.
I kind of wish I had at thetime, you know, but I went and
worked for somebody else, uh,and I kind of learned.
I learned a bunch of stuff thatI'm glad I learned.
(05:23):
So I'm kind of, I guess I'mglad I went out and worked for a
different agency and stuff likethat.
But I dreamed of, I dreamed of aplace where I could be like
just wild, like a lot ofcreativity, right.
And I think originally I, likeyou know, when you're little, do
you ever, when you're little,make like a diagram of your
ideal mansion?
Did you ever do that?
(05:44):
I don't know if they do that inTexas, we did it in a little
church in Minnesota.
We'd be sketching our weird bigmansion that we wanted to have
one day, with a water slide fromthe bedroom.
And I think, like when I was incollege, I kind of diagrammed
what I'd want my office to looklike and it was gonna have a
(06:06):
video space and a music spaceand just different kind of
components.
And so I dreamt big and I think, um, now you know, even though
we only have a, you know, here,there a guitar, we don't
actually have like a musicstudio, which was part of dream
A lot of the other things havebecome, have come true, where
(06:27):
we're doing this kind of moreintense creativity, and it's
it's a kind of a more funenvironment.
I think it's that's one of thebest parts about an agency, and
having an agency is likecreating a fun environment where
everyone's kind of beingcreative together and coming up
with wild, crazy ideas.
(06:48):
So that's what I like aboutjust having a business like this
.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Yeah, well, you know when kind of the same thing,
like you knew, you probablycould help contractors really
tackle one of the biggesthurdles.
So, just in digital, whenlimited, helping contractors
figure out a strategy for how toorganize their marketing spend.
You know, of course a largechunk of that goes toward
digital and so there's such aneed for it, and I encourage
(07:15):
clients all the time like youshould interview these different
agencies before you just signon to one.
So you know, just because 50people recommend them on social
media does not mean there's notsome great ones out there, but
one of the things that I thinkpeople would enjoy about
watching you guys.
You have your own vibe.
It's very much like I mentionedto you the other day, like a
(07:36):
navigator style, like someonewalking you along through all
the steps of onboarding withHook and things like that.
So I think there's just so muchpower in what you're saying
really trying to understand,dreaming big and doing things
that really you know help thecontractor at the end of the day
.
But every great business startswith solving like real problems
(07:58):
, and I think that you reallyfound your niche there with
niche there, with contractorsneeding leads and a good digital
thing.
So well, let's get into themeat of websites and SEO and all
of that good stuff and I knowyou and I talked the other day
like a good brand is great anddefinitely will help other
things perform better.
(08:18):
But let's get down in the weedsa little bit about.
Maybe, if I can talk with youabout your strategy for actual
conversions on seo, like wheredo you think we're headed um for
search engine optimization andthings like that right now.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Where are we headed?
Hmm, kind of a little bit intothe it's.
It's unclear at the moment howlong into the future SEO is
going to be a viable strategy, Ithink.
I think that it's a.
You know, look at the, the AIthings, the, the AI overviews,
(09:01):
the zeroclick searches andthings like that I think is
stealing some market share asfar as the ability to just crank
up traffic really quickly andthings like that.
I think it makes it morecompetitive for the things that
(09:22):
are there.
It is interesting.
I mean, google traffic is stillgrowing, you know.
Apparently it grew like 21 orthe amount of searches grew
about like 21% this last year.
It's not slowing down.
It seems like just there's moreand more people.
That it's.
You know, digital is life kindof thing, but I think it becomes
(09:44):
more difficult.
I think that SEO, as far asclear, like having complete
clarity or the ability to like,yeah, to predict, I think it's,
I think it's my, my ability topredict is probably lower than
it's been in ever.
(10:05):
On us, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So your answer and even your hesitation a little
bit there is because, man, Idon't think anybody really knows
.
Everybody's making their bestguess at this and you're right
with the oncoming of AI.
So you know AIO, automated, youknow artificial intelligence,
optimization, search engineoptimization.
(10:29):
Here's the hard part forcontractors.
You just have to be out there.
You have to be willing to do alot of things to see what works
and see what's going.
If you're looking for thismagic bullet that you're going
to call any marketer, they'regoing to say, man, if you are
doing this, you're going to growyour company.
Give me $10,000.
All of you would do it.
That's just not how easy it is.
(10:49):
And so what?
I think the learned lesson hereshould be that it is a
necessary evil, so trusting yourdigital provider to do some of
those strategies to keep you atthe top of whatever's changing.
You can always pivot as thingshappen.
But between Google and puttingout new algorithms all the time
and new updates and all theirstuff, with AI constantly
(11:12):
changing and becoming even moreof a, to me, I love it.
It's like a headache and ablessing at the same time.
But also there's still a lot ofimpact with that core pieces.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I think one thing is the note is like so
when people are coming from zeroto try to get those first like
hundred or a thousand clicks amonth, you know what I mean.
That part is scarier becauseyou you actually have to go
pretty hard for SEO.
I think, honestly, that's thethat's a huge thing is you have
(11:45):
to go harder than you've everhad to go to get those first
thousand clicks a month, versus,like, for a company that has a
thousand clicks a month.
What are we willing to do forthe next few thousand?
I think that that's an easierspot to be because you already
know that you have 20 leads or30 leads from SEO already.
(12:07):
I think that that's an easierplace to double down and I think
it's an easier place toactually make money is to double
down on things.
I think that's why you seeseasoned business owners saying
I want to invest quite a bit ofmoney into SEO is because they
already see 20, 30 leads comingfrom that direction.
(12:29):
I think that, like, honestly,that's a little bit more common
for us, like the, the absolutefrom scratch SEO right now, like
business owners trying to dothat.
I think our thing is tooexpensive, just to be honest and
it's the truth is.
The truth is, is that SEO isyou have to go hard to win, so
(12:50):
people that are scared to gohard to win Yesterday we talked
about how scared money don'tmake money, and I think knowing
your lead sources and thendoubling down on the ones that
work is always a good strategy.
Whether it's, you know, like, ifit's lsa or it's google ads or
(13:12):
it's google maps or it'straditional seo, it's recognized
like and I think of.
I think part of the thing is Idon't even consider us just an
seo provider.
I really think of us as like,well, we're like helping people
build leads, build leads and, um, so, as time goes on, like if
(13:33):
that's seo, we are veryaggressive, like we that's the
option for seo that we have isvery aggressive.
And then we have all theseother things on google and if,
if a aeo, if, if, uh, chat, ifAEO, if Chats and Petits gets
ads, I promise you will be oneof the first people to be on it,
you know, and to be providingthat service as well.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Well, so, okay, so we've got the website, we've got
the SEO.
We know all those basic thingsright.
We know we need to be there, weknow we need to be at least
like at the ring right, tryingto get in there and box around,
at least like at the ring right,trying to get in there and box
around.
But what do you think from adigital aspect, or some of the
biggest mistakes that we'reseeing home service contractors
make when it comes to onlinemarketing?
Do you think it's like lack ofbudget?
(14:18):
Is it just lack ofunderstanding numbers?
Where do you think we'regetting in trouble?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Not knowing your numbers is a big one Not knowing
what to double down on becauseyou haven't looked at lead
sources, and not owning yourmarketing.
Like to me, there's two ways tonot own your marketing you
don't know that you own yourwebsite, or you don't know if
you own your website or not.
You don't own your ad account.
You don't own your analytics,you don't sign in, you don't
(14:47):
look at your traffic.
You don't sign in, you don'tlook at your traffic.
And then, on the other side,you don't own your marketing in
the way that you're buying leads.
You're outsourcing everything.
You're thinking that an outsidecompany is going to save you,
(15:10):
not creating a brand and notbecoming.
I think of people becoming thegeneral contractor for their
marketing, so to speak, right,like actually owning the process
and then wielding these vendors.
And I know that you guys helpthem own their marketing right
and own it and takeresponsibility for it and stop
trying.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Well, we just know how hard.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, I mean, we just know how hard it is to actually
organize and articulate a brandstory and calls to action, all
those things with thesedifferent providers.
And so, you're right, likeLiving Seed is built
specifically to do that and helpbuild brands that build leads,
that build legacies, that justkeep building on things.
And so I think the lesson thatwe're trying to learn here is
(15:48):
you know, we see thesecontractors all the time and
they'll start off with aterrible logo and a low budget
and they're like man, make magicout of this.
And you're like you're just,you're going to set yourself up.
We were talking to even my ownfamily, like we know, now we
start off building a logo,building a tagline, getting our
mascot, getting our jingle,getting our graphics together,
(16:10):
because we know if we can justhit the gas, we're going to
build, we're going to buildmomentum, and we roll over the
top of competition.
That's more scared or morereserved.
Same thing with the roofingcompany that I'm a part of.
She called me and said let's dosomething together.
We said yes, and then I said,listen, scared money don't make
(16:30):
money, so how much money do wegot?
And she was like well, let's,let's, let's get risky.
So I mean there is something tobe said, for you got to spend
money to make money.
There is no silver bullet,there is nothing that's going to
be this magic button.
It is everything independentlyis probably underperforming, but
it's putting everythingtogether that makes you know.
(16:54):
We just released a podcastcalled 2 plus 2 equals 5.
And that's because the sum ofeverything is much more
impactful than each pieceindividually.
So you know like right now, ifyou put all of your hope into
digital marketing, you're goingto be struggling because there's
not a lot of demand.
In Texas right now it's 70degrees.
For the two weeks of the yearthat it's going to be 70 degrees
(17:15):
.
And you know everybody's livingtheir best life.
They're not calling their HVACcompany, you know.
So I think that's a prettycommon thought there.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
You know it's funny that you said that so boldly.
I agree 100%.
You know it's funny that yousaid that so boldly.
I agree 100%.
Everything by itself might seemlike it's underperforming, and
it's interesting because that'sactually what I kind of look at,
as I call it the five timesrule, where it's like we want to
(17:44):
hit the people five times indifferent ways and that's how it
performs.
Well, you know what I meanIndividually by itself, because
people don't take one piece ofmarketing in and then always
become a customer.
It's so many times where it'slike that person now knows you
from the five times that theysaw you and then makes a
(18:08):
decision to work with you.
So, but I love that idea oflike anyone could be
unperforming but it doesn't meanthat your overall marketing is
not working.
Yes, no.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
And honestly, that's what we flipping built this
living seat on was man, youmight have bits and pieces.
A lot of people have all thepuzzle pieces.
They just don't know how.
Have all the puzzle pieces,they just don't know how to put
the puzzle together.
So you know, I mean that's justa big piece there of what
happens.
Well, okay, you and I did havea great conversation about this
(18:39):
as well.
So you know Living Seeds reallyworking hard to build more
brands.
So the graphic, like logos andband wraps and things like that
it's one of our core functions.
My business partner, emily thatis her skill by trade Just a
fantastic graphic designer,wonderful at casting a vision
(19:00):
for true brands, and so you andI had a great conversation about
how man those brands.
No matter what you do, if youhave a better, more memorable
brand, your digital performanceis going to be better.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, I agree 100%.
I think that I mean it's sofunny because it's obvious that
I believe that our logo one isintended to be iconic and be
able to be transferred anywhere.
Your guys' logo is really good.
It just immediately has afeeling in the brain, has like a
(19:32):
a feeling in the brain.
You know, like our name issuper short and punchy and it's
easy to remember hookagencycom,yeah.
but it's also I believe inbrands so much that, like we're
constantly doing things thatliterally are just to get people
in, our ideal customers, toremember the logo.
So we're constantly doing videoputting the logo as a watermark
on there.
We're going to events I'mpassing out waters where it's
(19:53):
just the logo.
So I believe in brands so muchbut for some reason it's kind of
hard to fully get contractorson board.
Home service businesses don'tknow sometimes if it's a way to
sell them marketing.
When people talk about brand,they think that maybe brand is a
(20:16):
fluffy nonsense thing from MadMen or something like that.
But what we can all understandis reputation and what I think I
really believe that's reallyhard to fully get people on
board with sometimes is that youinfuse your reputation into a
(20:37):
symbol and like I think aboutthe, the, the name of the
beatles.
Yeah, people didn't like thebeatles if, if you didn't know
all their music, the beatles iskind of a terrible band name
actually.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
But we infuse our logo and name with all these
great things.
So I know contractors and homeservice business out there are
obsessed with their reputationand doing great work.
That carries on and spreadsthrough word of mouth.
If we can attach that to asymbol, that's iconic, that is
just, that's just brand and itmakes every lead cheaper, so as
(21:21):
as we get more like clients thatoverlap between your, yours and
our company and I think thatit's building out that they want
leads.
I was just talking to our COOand we were talking about how
we're not selling SEO, we'reselling leads and winning.
We're selling winning and leads.
(21:42):
Right, that's what these guyswant to buy.
That's what people want to buy.
They want to buy winning andit's hard to fully explain.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
They want to be a part what people want to buy.
They want to buy a winning, andit's hard to fool.
They want to be a part.
People Contractors want to be apart of successful things.
So, especially when you can letthem see the vision of what you
do now, with everything thatyou do and you your own company,
and so when they can see thatyou're successful.
So same thing with homeowners.
You know, when homeowners areinteracting with your brand on
(22:10):
their customer journey and theysee vans that are clean and
sleek and modern, they seebillboards that are, you know,
trendy, maybe even, butdefinitely on brand and
reiterating something, they makeme feel something, whether it's
laughter or like oh I neverthought of that or just a
traditional feel when I'm out atmy kid's baseball game, do I
(22:30):
see that you're a supporter ofthose things.
Those are all things that Ithink contractors want to create
.
We need to create that and inreturn, we make ourselves more
noticeable, we make ourselvesmore memorable and it becomes a
definite differentiator betweenus and the person beside me.
So, tim, I know that withbranding, you know, like we were
(22:53):
saying, everybody wants to be apart of things that are
successful, companies that aresuccessful.
And so you know, when we see acontractor come to us with a
solid brand, we love to see that, because we know that they're
already going to be so many moresteps ahead.
There's so much more of a storythat we can say, there's so
many more unique spins that wecan take on it for content
(23:15):
writing and all of that.
And I know that you've probablyseen.
The more memorable a brand is,the better they perform in their
paid ads and all of those goodthings.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
I truly believe that if you'remore memorable and distinct,
right that every single piece ofmarketing that you put out will
have a higher ROI and brand isnot just the initial creation of
the logo too.
I think it's how you infuseyour reputation and how you
(23:48):
treat homeowners into the logo.
So I was talking about, liketheles is not really that great
of a name.
Actually I don't think if theirmusic wasn't so magical that we
wouldn't like that's a terriblename, actually, kind of.
But because it's great, um, weinfuse it and it's easy to
(24:12):
remember.
It's simple.
So easy to remember and simpleare such a big piece of this
Cause.
Otherwise, you got to say 10things on your truck wraps and
your and your billboards.
You got to say this is the name, this is thecom, this is the
phone number.
You know you have to just getget into all these things, but
if it's like clarity on what thename is, it's easy to remember
(24:32):
and here's what we do, then wecan find you.
So that to me is like a bigcomponent of why all your
marketing goes further, becauseI can recall just being able to
recall a name.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
You know being able to just name them.
So I say this all the time whenI come in from you know soccer
practice and I walk in and Iopen my front door and the heat
just hits me.
In July in Texas, I don't wantto be thinking, man, I wish I
knew who to call.
I want everybody thinking Iwant to call the people with the
roadrunner, I want to call thepeople with the dog.
How do I get my name so much infront of people that they
(25:09):
immediately think about me?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Exactly, I agree, and I think, like you know, there's
the the beauty of talking aboutthe problems you solve too.
We think about the name, but we, I think, like related to this
is what we solve.
So even when I'm marketing, alot of times we market because
we're niche, our company isniche and we're marketing to
(25:33):
home service businesses.
I just want them to remember torefer us, people to refer us to
.
I'm not always marketing forleads, I'm marketing for
referrals, and so a lot of timesI'll tell people hey, if
somebody says they hate theirwebsite, we're a great referral.
If somebody feels like theydon't have clarity around what
(25:54):
they're getting from their SEOcompany, we're a great referral.
So it's like those problems too,and like reminding people of
the problems that you solve andthose are great headlines for
billboards.
Problems because problems keptlike they grab our attention.
And then when we remember, ohyeah, they said they they solve
(26:15):
your mouse problem, or you knowif it was pest control, or they
said that they you know if yourAC was leaking or you know, like
basically, the ability torecall what problems does this
company solve, I think is agreat like additional thing
beyond the name and the brand.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Absolutely, absolutely, definitely,
definitely.
A lot to think through on thatpiece, but really it's not as
hard as it sounds.
It's more about gettingcontractors to buy into that way
of thinking.
Cause, definitely it's, it's.
It's about contractors notbeing scared about all of those
things so another thing that weget.
(26:53):
We hear a lot from ourcontractors that might be on the
smaller side.
How do you think they even cancompete with these large
companies with online presence?
Do you think that they shouldLike?
What do you think?
Let's pretend like I'm a small,you know, smaller than 2
million, smaller than $3 millioncontractor, really trying to
get my online presence peaked up.
(27:14):
What do you think are some?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
great places for me to start.
Google business profile handsdown is the best place to start.
And yeah, because you can justget reviews, you know?
And no, it's no, they aren'tcharging you to get reviews.
It's it's hard to get thosecustomers, but as you get those,
if you think of it like everyhomeowner is going to review me,
I'm going to figure out a wayto get every homeowner to review
(27:38):
me.
You have so much opportunityright there.
It's funny.
Sometimes there will be acompany that's been around for a
while but they didn'tprioritize reviews.
You could right past them.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Every single homeowner is just you've made it
into a game.
You say, hey, no matter what,even if we don't work on your
system today, if I I'm able togive you a diagnosis here and
give you clarity around theproblem, I would love it if
you'd be willing to give us afive-star review today.
You know you can.
You can.
You don't have to have oh, Isold them an entire AC or entire
(28:16):
roof or entire you can.
You know, I was just talking toa roofer that was saying this
is like he was saying if I'mgoing to get up on your roof and
risk my life for this, I wouldlove it If, by the end of this,
even if we don't work with you,if you don't mind giving us five
star review.
There is reasons why, like, thevalue that you provide in your
(28:37):
diagnosis is enough for a fivestar review.
And yeah, people will say I'veheard it before like they're,
like I don't even know whatthey're doing over there.
They got 500 reviews and Idon't even.
They've only been around fortwo years.
They must be cheating.
It's like.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
No, they're not, they're not cheating.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
They're asking, and they're like asking every
homeowner every time, so most-.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, and follow-ups.
You know more than just onetime, absolutely, absolutely.
And you know people care somuch about those things.
And not only do people care inyour community, your target
market, but, heck, google's toldyou they care about reviews.
So, like, just intentionallybuilding out a strategy to help
you get there.
So start with Google businessand then add on GLSA and then
(29:23):
keep going for PPC or geofencingor geotargeting or retargeting,
like get with your digitalprovider to create a layered
plan and approach to get thatWell, okay, so I love talking
about that.
One thing that I've been reallyimpressed with you guys, and
you specifically, is you know,tell me a little bit about how
you grew, maybe Hook Agency,what were some things that you
(29:44):
like struggled with when youwere trying to scale?
Or you know, what did it looklike and what kind of advice
would you give to a contractortrying to scale their own
business?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I think it's the first couple of people, it's
the hardest right and in mycase I hired my wife and
although there are drawbacks tothat, I couldn't recommend it
highly enough.
It's just, it's a risky move,obviously, like hopefully you,
like your spouse, but it's alsoscary, no matter what it's scary
, and it did cause issues in ourmarriage.
(30:15):
I don't want to say it with nocaveat, but it's also scary, no
matter what it's scary, and itdid cause issues in our marriage
.
So I don't want to like say itwith no caveat, but that was a
huge advantage because it's twopeople that really care about
each other, that are pushing thesame direction and it directly
benefits.
And then we can talk about iteven when we're at home, which
also has a drawbacks, but thatwas a big piece.
But those first couple of yearswe didn't have a real culture,
because you have like three,four, five people and it's
(30:37):
really hard to create culture.
And so first real employee Ihired, even though we hired a
few more after that.
He left after one year oftraining him like every day, day
in and day out, for all thetime.
I essentially ended up having totake that as a big gut punch
and I wanted to him and I wantedto blame everybody else, but
(30:58):
until I took full responsibilityfor that, I couldn't move
forward and I couldn't actuallymake a culture that I would want
to be part of.
So now it's.
There's a lot more things oflike trying to create culture
and telling our people thatthat's important and making
things that are cool for themand trying to make something of
(31:18):
substance and building traininginto our team, so like there's a
reason to stay around and thisplace develops its people.
So, but that took a while and Ihad to.
I came up with like a internalmotto around champion the
underdog and we put it up on thewall and we put it on shirts
(31:39):
and you know we talk aboutsmaller businesses competing.
We've always appreciatedsmaller businesses and really
like wanted to be part of likethe local hometown hero winning,
you know, and so we still have.
Most of our clients are not PEowned.
A lot of our clients are smallbusinesses.
A lot of them are competing ata higher level and have an
(32:00):
unfair advantage in themarketplace, and we take pride
in being scrappy and beingresourceful in our marketing.
I think that, as a businessowner, creating culture was
really hard, and I think noweven still it's hard.
It's hard because I want totell my team exactly why they
(32:21):
should buy in.
But if I'm not fully bought in,so lately something that relates
to this two or three years inchallenge has been like the law
of the lid oh yes.
Of like, oh yes, if I'm notgrowing as a human being, if I'm
not actually getting better andkind of like taking
uncomfortable steps to improveas a leader, then my people are
(32:44):
going to not buy in either.
Like, if I'm not bought in, whywould I expect them to be
bought in so lately?
It's been a little bit aroundlike trying to make moves that
would make me better as a leader, even though they are sometimes
really hard, and so I thinkthat that's the current
challenge.
The current challenge iswanting my team to be all in and
(33:09):
learning that I have to be alittle bit more all in.
Because at a certain point, it'slike we have so many good
things happening right, there'smomentum, and like as a business
owner, I could kind of like Icould rest a little.
I could rest a little.
Come on, I mean, I'm not justsaying rest, but I'm saying like
kind of loosen up on my why youknow what I mean.
Like it's going to be reallyhard to transfer that to my team
(33:37):
.
So that's the big challenge.
Now there's been so many otherones right, Like during COVID,
we had like employees leaving ata pace that was really
disconcerting.
You know, we improved ouremployee experience a lot, but
it tends to be around that a lot, but it tends to be around that
it tends.
Now the challenges are it tendsto be around like improving the
(33:58):
employee experience, which also, in turn, improves the client
experience, because there's moreof that operational memory.
We remember the challenge fromthree years ago, so we're
actually getting better at amuch faster pace.
And so it's kind of on meindirectly to make the client
(34:19):
experience better by making the,by making the employee
experience better, which is it'sa lot of work actually, and I
think there's no limit to howgood that could get from my
point of view.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh no, that's a great .
That's a great point.
So, caring about your team.
One thing that Emily said inone of our meetings was you know
we got to decide are we goingto be customer forward or client
or team member forward?
Because sometimes when you'retrying to make decisions for the
company like how does thisimpact our customers and how
does it impact our team Makingsure that we're remembering
those things when we're makinglong term decisions for our
(34:54):
companies is really important tokeep us you know, just to keep
us on on target for what we'retrying to accomplish as a
company.
So you don't want to be heldhostage by your team, but you
also need to know how to keep ateam and retain talent, and a
lot of that's hard.
You know a lot.
I've also heard, like,sometimes who the people that
are on your team that get you tothree million are not the ones
(35:15):
that'll get you to five, or notthe ones that'll get you to ten,
and so that's an interestingstatement as well, but you know
scaling like I'm not about, I'mnot a pushover when it comes to
team either.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Like, we fire, you know like, and but it's like,
it's like the high performanceteam, like sports team, mindset,
it like, but the people thatare here have it pretty good,
and then we trim the fat.
You know, like, and I do thinkthat that's you can always
double down on the existing teamand make the experience better
if you do trim the fat, whichyou can't, if you hold on to all
(35:48):
the like C players.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, absolutely, no, absolutely.
And you know scaling I was justabout to say you know it's it's
about more than just gettingmore leads right.
It's about better leadership,better systems, staying
connected to your mission,vision and core values and like
putting processes and things inplace, and that's that's where
scaling comes in.
It's just managing the peopleand managing the fun, as I say.
(36:12):
So all right.
Well, listen, tim, if peoplewanted to get to know more about
you and like what it would belike to work with Hook Agency,
how would you like for them toreach out for you?
Any exciting things coming upfor you guys?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I'd love it if you connect with me at
facebookcom, slash Tim HookAgency, tim Hook Agency or just
Google Tim Hook, and then myFacebook will come up.
Or check out hookagencycom.
But yeah, big things coming up.
Well, it's a secret, but we'vegot a book coming out later this
(36:45):
summer.
Oh love, don't tell anyone,don't tell anyone.
It's called how to Become aHometown Hero a powerful guide
to home services marketing, andit has 28 different takes from
business owners as far as how tobuild connection, deep
connection with the community,and to leverage emotion and
(37:06):
persuasion to have much bettermarketing.
So it's kind of on the moreemotionally persuasive side of
marketing and no one needs to,no one should know about it yet.
But I just just for youraudience to want to hear that it
is coming, you know, come outAugust 1st.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Awesome, Well, congratulations.
I know that those aredefinitely a labor of love there
.
Yes, Well, guys, I just wantwell.
First of all, Tim, thank you somuch.
Like marketing changes fast and, but when you partner with
people that help you lead andnavigate those strategies and
help you stay committedcontractors, you will win and
(37:46):
you will stay relevant and juststay in the game.
Keep your head down, trust yourvendors.
But, Tim, thanks for hangingout with me today from talking
websites, SEO to leadership.
I think it was a great talktoday.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
So I just want to reiterate for your audience.
I just want to note like webelieve in what you guys do.
It's a very, very importantposition in the market that you
know you guys are such.
You guys are kind of a unicornin the marketing world where
you're like this guide that ishelping people to do it better.
You're not just trying to likedo everything in house or
(38:25):
whatever.
You're creating this ability toown their marketing and to me
that is extremely honorable,very, very and difficult, I'm
sure, but I just want to say Ireally enjoyed that.
I think you guys, you guys areso needed for home service
businesses and so we reallyappreciate knowing you and get
to work, getting to work withyou on stuff and, as we have
(38:47):
more overlapping clients, I justthink we're really grateful to
be um part of your community aswell.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Well, thank you so much.
You are so kind and it is ablessing and it is a challenge,
but we're always up for it.
So well, thank you again, Tim,for being on here and, to my
listeners, if we would love foryou to leave us a review, make
sure you're following us on allof our social media channels and
thank you for listening toanother episode.
We will talk to you soon.
(39:14):
Thanks for sipping lemonadewith us.
Bye.
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