October 7, 2025 • 32 mins
Most contractors don’t have a marketing problem—they have a systems problem. We sat down with Skip Wilson, CEO of Draft Media Partners and a veteran of iHeart’s digital era, to break down how to replace tactic-hopping with a durable plan that compounds. We start with the core: define a real audience, clarify the action you want (calls, forms, financing inquiries), craft messages people actually care about, and then build a channel mix that won’t collapse when a platform changes the rules.
We get practical fast. If “family-owned” is your headline, you’re blending in. Instead, choose a USP that’s provable and valuable: same-day installs, weekend hours without overtime, or flexible financing. From there, we map a resilient stack that aligns operations with demand: a CRM that can handle volume, automated nurturing to recover no-shows and slow deciders, strong search visibility, and brand-building through video and audio with precise household targeting. One standout tactic: retarget website visitors with oversized direct mail that lands days after they browse—perfect for bigger, non-urgent purchases like tankless water heaters, where timing and recall close the gap.
Measurement is the unlock. We walk through shifting from cost per lead to customer acquisition cost and show how matchbacks connect exposure on CTV, radio, and social to actual new customers. No advanced stack? Use call tracking and a simple monthly CAC baseline to create a meaningful “pass/fail” view. Month one is an educated guess; month two should be optimization, not reinvention. When leads dip, pull pre-planned levers—adjust the audience, rotate offers, move budget up or down the funnel, or trigger targeted mail and outbound—rather than scrambling for “what’s new.”
If you’re ready to stop chasing the most expensive leads in your market and start building a brand people search by name, this conversation is your blueprint. Listen, take notes, and then tell us: what’s your current CAC target, and which lever will you pull next? If the show helped, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a contractor who needs steadier growth.
If you enjoyed this chat From the Yellow Chair, consider joining our newsletter, "Let's Sip Some Lemonade," where you can receive exclusive interviews, our bank of helpful downloadables, and updates on upcoming content.
Please consider following and drop a review below if you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to check out our social media pages on Facebook and Instagram.
From the Yellow Chair is powered by Lemon Seed, a marketing strategy and branding company for the trades. Lemon Seed specializes in rebrands, creating unique, comprehensive, organized marketing plans, social media, and graphic design. Learn more at www.LemonSeedMarketing.com
Interested in being a guest on our show? Fill out this form!
We'll see you next time, Lemon Heads!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What's up, Limit Heads?
Welcome to another episode ofFrom the Yellow Chair.
I am Crystal, and today I'mreally excited.
I love talking to othermarketing people.
When marketing people talk tomarketing people, we just hit a
vibe.
Just a vibe, and we love it.
And so those of you that hatemarketing but are forced to
listen to this podcast so thatyou can be participating in the
(00:20):
marketing for your company.
I really think you're gonnaenjoy this episode because we're
gonna get a little outside thebox thinking about overall
marketing strategies.
So I've got a CEO on the calltoday with me or on the podcast
today that is over an adexecution company.
So very a unique approach.
We talked about how I'm on oneside of the coin and these on
(00:41):
the other.
And so, guys, let's get ready.
I hope you're watching onYouTube or you're listening at
your favorite place for podcastsare, but buckle up, guys, let's
zip some lemonade.
(01:03):
All right, Skip, welcome to theLimited Stand.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
From the Yellow Chair, absolutely.
So, Skip Wilson, you're the CEOof Draft Media Partners, and you
are gonna tell us a little bitabout yourself and why anyone
should listen to what you haveto say today.
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
Absolutely.
Well, I've my whole career hasbeen in like one industry, which
is the advertising industry.
So it's perfect.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
I would have to be at leastdecent at it, um, right?
You'd think after 20 years orso.
But yeah, um the I started offuh as a copywriter and then went
on to uh as a from a freelancerinto web design, and then uh
(01:42):
from that was a time order whenwe launched uh our
user-generated content platformand then went over to Clear
Channel Radio and we launchedwhat was became the iHeartRadio
app and was the vice presidentof digital media for iHeart
Media for about 12 years beforefounding draft and and going off
uh going off on on my own.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Awesome, awesome.
And you know, I love it whenpeople have been around in the
tactic side.
So you've seen success, you'veseen people not do it right,
you've seen people do itcompletely wrong, like you've
seen people make a disaster ofthemselves.
But I love that today we'regonna be talking a lot about um
marketing feels all over theplace for a lot of people and
(02:21):
how contractors are not alone inthat.
So let's start off with whysystems beat scatter every
single time, right?
So you've worked with everyonefrom radio giants to these small
uh service shops.
You know, why do you think somany home service businesses um
are really struggling to gettheir marketing maybe organized
or off the ground?
(02:42):
You know, I have my own opinionof this, but I'm very curious
about what you think.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
Well, so there it's a very much a lead-based
business, which you know isgood.
Uh most businesses in some formor fashion are lead-based.
Uh we'll say because of thatfocus, though, only on the
bottom of funnel, uh, it causeslike hit or miss advertising
sometimes.
And there's good and bad on bothsides.
Like sometimes there's beenplenty of businesses that made
(03:07):
an entire career off of Facebookads.
And then when Facebook changestheir algorithm, it completely
blows up their model.
And then likewise, there's youknow, they'll get addicted to
like Google ads, and then all ofa sudden Google rolls out Google
Guarantee, and you know, justthose little changes when you
become platform dependent, um,it just opens you up to you know
needless risk, right?
(03:28):
And then and that's if that's ifyou find a campaign that's
working.
Uh, if you find a campaign, butyou know, a lot of times they're
just keep trying different stuffand hoping that something works,
and so it's kind of dangerous onboth sides.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Absolutely.
And you know, we um I call thatthe hamster wheel.
So we have contractors that theylive so much at the bottom of
funnel.
So uh to to you know, settlethis a little bit for people
that are listening, like, whatis this funnel?
You know, every consumer is inthis someplace in the funnel of
leading down to actually makinga decision.
So from not a lot of us, I liketo focus on top of the funnel um
(04:02):
pretty extensively, meaningthese are people that aren't
even considering your businessright now.
They don't need your business,but they're just in the
consideration they're just inthe where you can make a an
impression phase, right?
Like you're just trying to buildawareness with them all the way
down to the bottom of thatfunnel, which is people ready to
make a decision right now.
They need your service rightnow.
Um, and so that top of thefunnel, bottom of the funnel
(04:24):
piece.
But when you live on thathamster wheel where you're
always chasing people that areready to make a decision right
now, there's only so many ofthose to go around.
So so much of your marketingstrategy truly has to be built
around both marathon and sprintstrategies so that you can have
a collective approach tobuilding your business.
And when you don't, and youhyper focus on the hamster wheel
(04:46):
or lead gen only, I believe thatit it really is a very it's
emotionally taxing as well, um,you know, to the contractor for
sure.
So um okay.
So what do you think the mostcommon signs of business is
scattered in their marketing?
Like what are some identifiersto you that really pop out?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
One of the biggest like red flags is if there's
whole like tactic changes uhfrom like six, seven times, you
know, over the course of threeyears, if you are completely
blowing up your marketingstrategy, that is a sign that
you're kind of hoping that youfind something that works.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
(05:26):
And that just creates thatconstant start and stop of
things, uh, which is just wastesa lot of budget because yeah,
people that are everyone wantsto show up when someone's
searching for you know new roof,right?
Or if you're a roof, sure, sure,yeah, yeah.
And that's definitely important,but that's you know, that's
where everybody's chasing.
So that's the most expensivetype of lead.
(05:46):
And you really do want to be,you want them Googling your
name, right?
Instead of just Googling uh H VA C near me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Story of my life there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
So yeah, yeah, you want to be on both of those
searches, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's why I'm like, this ismarketing, is a multifaceted
approach, right?
We've got to build brand, we'vegot to get build call to action
to gain new customers, and wehave to cultivate the existing
customers that we have accessto.
But you said something here, andI might have misinterpreted
this, but I have a client rightnow who they're on their third
digital partner in two years.
Now, listen, sometimes I want tobe like, now listen, I'm gonna
(06:20):
treat you like a breakup.
It's not me, it is you 100%,right?
And here's why contractors,y'all are frustrated, you feel
misled, you feel misguided, youfeel like you've wasted money.
Here's here is the harsh realityabout especially, especially
digital marketing.
Okay.
Uh, it sucks, it's alwayschanging, and you have to have
(06:42):
it.
So it is it is all threeterrible things, okay?
But once you go, okay, this is agame that I've got to play.
It does not behoove you toconstantly be bitterly bopping
around to all these differentvendors, okay?
You must get connected withsomeone that you trust.
So this is what I recommend whenyou're interviewing digital
agencies, right?
(07:03):
I recommend that we this is whatLemon Seed is going to do.
Tell us your secret sauce.
Why are you different thananyone else?
And what you're listening forare what are their strategies,
what are their techniques, whatare their philosophies, okay?
Digital marketing is somethingthat you have to have a thought
around.
You have to have a way that youdo it.
So that's why there are severalgood digital marketing agencies,
(07:26):
especially in the home servicespace.
But the reason that they're allgood is they all have a
different strategy, a differentway they approach and they
interpret Google's informationback to them, uh, the way they
the way they approach AI.
So it doesn't behoove you tojump around.
Um, because it's like you'restarting and stopping, right?
Like you're just like start,stop, start, stop.
(07:47):
And then you're mad that they'renot performing when really those
are marathon approaches,especially, especially those of
you that are looking for SEO.
Now, if you're over here on thePPC side, right, Google local
service ad side, uh, you know,other types of paid ad spending
like that, those should have alittle bit quicker.
But honestly, you're just notdoing yourself any favors by
jumping around.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
That's right.
Yeah, if I if we're meeting witha with an end advertiser, most
of our stuff is white label orbehind the scenes of other of
other companies.
But when we are meeting with anwith an end advertiser and
they've had two or threecompanies over the past, say
five years, and they want atactic like SEO, which can take
a year or more to pay off.
I completely avoid that topicwith them because I'm like,
(08:30):
they're not going to have thepatience for it.
You know, I know that it's uhyou know, I'm not gonna give
them a 12-month strategy whenthey, you know, when I know that
they're jumping around every sixmonths or so.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, so what do you think is thefirst system that maybe
contractors should prioritize?
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
So I think the first thing is figuring out like who
is your audience, and then likespecific to your company, like
like you said, what makes youdifferent, and then who cares
about that?
And then you figure out who youraudience is, get that defined,
then you figure out what thatthing you're trying to get them
to do is, whether it's phonecalls or form fills or et
cetera.
(09:06):
And then from that you build outthe media plan, which you know,
it whether you're having aprofessional do that or not,
what that does is then thatinsulates you so that if
Facebook makes a change orGoogle makes a change or a
platform makes a change, you go,okay, well, where is this
audience now?
You know, maybe they left thisplatform and went over to this
other platform or did somethingelse.
(09:27):
But it gives you sort of hooksto sort of change a campaign so
that when you start it, if it'snot generating the results that
you want, you know which whichpiece to move on.
Like, do we try a differentaudience?
Do we try a different message?
Do we try a different result?
You know, if if we were heavy onphone calls and they're not
converting, then let's go heavyon something else.
(09:47):
It sort of gives you sort ofthree levers to pull to adjust
to actually get something that'sperforming consistently.
And then then you can sort ofpick it up and plug it into any
number of things.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I love that.
So let's let's go back to thisideal, the ideal audience, your
audience.
So if you're marketing toeveryone, you're really
marketing to no one, right?
So true marketing is aboutpulling emotions.
This sounds so corny.
Some of y'all are gonna be likewomp, womp, womp, crystal.
But really, at the end of theday, this is a messaging play.
So you've got to figure out howto get some cool messaging, some
(10:21):
cool offers, some cool calls toaction in your mix that really
um are speaking directly to youraudience.
You cannot afford to speak toevery single person out there.
So when you look at Walmart,Walmart knows you know they've
got all the rollbacks becausethey know who they are talking
to.
They have identified theircustomer versus Target.
(10:42):
Everything Target is not lookingfor bottom dollar shoppers.
That's not their plan.
There, they are they know it,they own it, they lean into it,
right?
So you have to know youraudience.
But the other thing that yousaid here is a unique selling
position.
So let me tell you things thatare not unique selling positions
any longer.
Family owned and operated.
Now, y'all are gonna laugh atthis.
(11:04):
It might begin that way asprivate equity continues to
swallow up things.
Okay.
But right now, family owned andoperated, unless you really,
really lean into the familypiece, like you go this
traditional wholesome familyroute, or to be honest, the
other direction, maybe you'rewanting to be a lot more, um, a
lot more open-minded of whatfamilies could be.
(11:25):
Let me again, you'd have to leanhard into that.
Um, also, like we're when youuse any words that you have to
tell people so that we'retrustworthy.
Okay, well, you're probably not,right?
We're honest and loyal.
I hope so.
Right.
So you you got to get past thosethings and you got to dig deeper
of are you the client that hasuh multiple, are you the
contractor that has multiple uhfinancing options?
(11:48):
Are you the client that's uh thecontractor that's open Monday
through Sunday, seven, you know,7 a.m., 7 p.m., no overtime
charges.
Are you the client that doessame-day install?
Like what is unique about youthat not everyone, if you can
look at your ad and putanybody's name at the top of it,
it's not you.
It's not unique, it's notstanding out, it's not growing
(12:08):
anything.
And then you also mentionedlevers.
Levers are such a core componentof what Living Seed offers,
which is basically backup plansfor us.
We want to have like backupplans to where, man, when lead
volume is low, what could we do?
And I'm gonna tell you that youneed to already have your
partner stack, meaning, likethese are all of the vendor
(12:29):
partners that I have at in my umquiller here of uh arrows that I
can pull out to shoot.
So, you know, you gotta if youwant to do texting and voice,
ringless voicemail drops andthings like that, you need to be
with Terp already.
So don't wait till you're toolate to do that.
Get with Terp now, right?
So there's there's lots of coolthings that you need to do
(12:50):
there.
So basically when you'rebuilding systems, right?
Um, instead of just chasingtactic after tactic and what's
new and whatever's rolling outin front of you, you need to
make sure that your marketing issustainable and scalable, right?
So let's break down a system orso, right?
So what's the ideal stack thatyou recommend uh for contractors
(13:11):
who want to get their operationsand maybe their marketing in
sync?
Um, you know, is it like CRMsand what are what are you seeing
out there?
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Yeah, that's so CRM is obviously important.
Like there's certain things thatwe you almost sort of have to
assume.
Like if you don't have this inin place, you probably shouldn't
market yet.
And one of those things is someway to handle like a large
volume of customers, you know,coming in.
And uh part of that is a CRM.
You should also have some sortof lead nurturing in place.
In other words, once somebodyreaches out or fills out a form
(13:42):
or reaches out to you, if theyno-show on that appointment, you
know, you want to go ahead andhave some of those automatic
responses um already built out.
And then uh you want to havethat in place really prior to,
or in my opinion, uh prior todoing any sort of paid outreach,
because you know, as always,even the majority of leads,
(14:04):
you're gonna close a third ofthem, even at you know, even at
good leads and good sell, and ifeven if you have great sellers,
so you need something to helpcapture the value in those other
two-thirds, because you know,they'll close eventually, but it
might not be for six months.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Rather slow, slow cycle there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
Exactly.
So once you've got that inplace, the first place I would
start is your basic searches,making sure that you are uh you
know that you are showing up insearch.
I would say that going all in onSEO now is gonna be difficult
for most uh most people in theservice business because SEO
(14:41):
this past year, really justsince summer of last year, has
taken such a hit, it's gonna bevery difficult because of AI
searches and AI responses andthings.
So if you're already doing it,keep up the efforts.
If you are new to the game, Iprobably would make sure that
you are decent in the SEO space,but that's I would it's gonna be
(15:02):
hard to become great because youare likely competing with uh
some major uh private equityfirms that are dropping 10 grand
or so into their site um in SEOa month.
And then beyond that, focusingin on search and keep scaling up
the and keep scaling sort of upthat funnel, making sure that
you show up in search, thenmaking sure that you are
(15:24):
building a brand first insocial, but then ideally getting
some like video and audiotactics and even things like you
know, direct mail is making aresurgence um and doing well in
the in the search in the homeservices space uh and performing
well.
It's not something that you wantto do every single month uh
unless you do we do have we havea way where you can target
(15:46):
direct mail uh to people whohave come to your site and
haven't taken action.
Um but so you could do somethinglike that.
But if unless it's somethinglike that, you don't want to
have necessarily it's somethingthat you probably want to do
quarterly instead of uh insteadof every single month uh as far
as m mass direct mail drops.
Uh but you but it is worthstarting to build a brand
(16:08):
because we live in a world nowwhere you can target on a
household level.
So in other words, you can showup on video to that same house
so that uh because they did aHVAC search you know two days
ago, you can now show up invideo to that household.
And uh that's exactly becausethey most likely, unless they
had a very immediate need, theymost likely didn't take action
(16:30):
when they searched two days ago.
They're just sort of in thatresearch phase.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yep, yep.
Okay, so love this because Ilove all these ideas, right?
So again, this is a digitalplay, but I love how it's other
options, right?
So I love that you were like,you know, people that are
visiting your site, you canretarget them with direct mail.
Yep.
And so it shows intent, right?
It shows that they already,number one, they already trusted
(16:55):
you, they found you.
So now what can they do?
Right.
Um, you know, like literally foryou, you're like, okay, what can
I get them to do?
Uh and so they they they showedsome sort of interest.
And so now you can send themthese postcards.
Tell me, like, how um what doesthat look like?
So do they have to stay on thesite very long before you send
the postcard?
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
They have to the only thing they've had to have
said yes to is sharing theirlocation.
Uh so it does require a cookiedisclaimer.
Um, the so when they come to thesite, as long as they say yes to
allowing cookies, which 80% ofpeople do, um, because we're so
used to saying yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Oh, 80% of people say yes.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Yes, exactly.
Um, and uh and that is sort ofgeographics, you know,
geographically uh specific.
Usually rural areas say yes at ahigher rate, urban areas say uh
yes at a lower rate, but rightacross the board in the US
that's 80%.
And then as long as they dothat, then we can as long as we
do that and live in a singlefamily home, we you can send a
(17:52):
you can send them a direct mailpiece.
I say that because some peoplelive in like apartment.
Now that doesn't you don't runinto that too much in the home
services space because if theylive in an apartment, why would
they be searching for a roof?
But but right, yeah.
I still want to put that caveaton there because it does happen.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Well, and you never know too, like, you know, do
they live there and own a rentalhome?
I mean, there's all kinds oflittle drama that can go on, but
the the the risk here there'svery little risk uh at the end
of the day.
At the end of the day, so solove love those ideas there that
you mentioned.
Love serendipitous.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
It seems serendipitous to the person
because you know, let's say thatI was considering like a
tankless hot water heater.
Well, that's not an immediateneed, right?
Like that's something I could doa little bit of research before
I actually pull the trigger on.
And it's when I get thatpostcard in the mail, which we
usually will do the like six bynine, the like the big bigger
one, yeah.
And uh it's like, oh, I was justthinking about this company.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Yeah, oh they read my mind.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, right, exactly.
It's like, oh, that's perfect.
I was just thinking about them.
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
Yeah, and let me tell you like this is all a part
of creative marketingstrategies.
This is a really good examplewhere it's not perfect for
everyone, but it's really goodfor a lot, and it's just about
working these things into yourstrategy.
And so, you know, your digital,like so your website hosting,
your SEO, your paid ad strategy,your retargeting strategy, your
social media strategy, yourdirect mail strategy.
(19:13):
All of those things requirecoordination to keep them all
rolling on time and when you'redoing them.
And honestly, guys, budget.
So many of you want caviar overhere giving me a tuna fish
budget.
And so, you know, there's adifference.
You have tuna fish money, thenwe need it.
We need to get the very besttuna fish that we can get,
right?
(19:33):
So it's not that you don't haveenough to be successful, you
just have to be very picky andvery selective and very
intentional.
As your budget for marketinggrows, then your opportunities
and your options grow.
And so that's why it's it'sreally important that people
understand a strategy is morethan one tactic, it's more than
one avenue of growing yourbusiness that you just got to
(19:54):
get focused on.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Um, and so don't to that end, I would encourage like
most uh most folks in the homeservices business are so focused
on cost per lead because thatwas the end all be all of
metrics to focus on.
But now we live in a world whereyou can do matchbacks and those
things.
So we try to encourage everyoneto focus more on customer
acquisition cost, you know,which if you have there are
(20:18):
fancy ways to track that umthrough like CRM matching and
those things.
But even if you have just likethe poor man's cocktail napkin
version of it of how manycustomers you had divided, you
know, or your media spenddivided by your um how many
customers you had.
Yeah, that's such a core metricbecause that matters more, uh,
you know, that matters a lotmore than cost per lead.
(20:39):
Because we can get cheap leadsall day, but they don't convert,
right?
And then that doesn't do anybodyany good.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
So break this down a little bit if you're
comfortable.
Like what how do you tellsomeone to calculate their
customer acquisition cost?
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
Well, so we have um that didn't mean that this to be
a shameless plug, but we do havea way uh using that same
technology to take um youessentially from a CRM what's
the uh names, addresses, andphone numbers, emails of the
jobs that were run in a month,and compare that to the actual
like ad logs of what householdswere exposed.
So that is a very specific wayto get so y'all have a match
(21:16):
back, basically.
Correct.
Exactly.
So because some things are moretrackable than others, like Hulu
ads, for example, are theyyou're not clicking them, right?
Because they're on your TV.
And so you can't get a directattribution.
But if we know that thathousehold was exposed to the ad
and then showed up as a newcustomer, pretty safe to say
that that's you know, at leastwe're yeah, it was a part of
(21:38):
their journey in some form orfashion.
Okay, correct.
Exactly.
Um, and so that's the like onthe fancier end of uh of
calculating that, where you geta very specific number.
But like I said, even if youdon't, like if you know what
your baseline of business is nowand you try a new tactic,
compare your, you know, how muchdid you, you know, did you spend
(21:59):
whatever?
Let's say 10 grand in inadvertising and you had a
hundred customers, just to makethe math easy.
Uh, well, that would be uh well,that'd be too.
Let's say you had a thousandcustomers, then you had a um or
a hundred customers, you had athousand customer acquisition
cost, right?
And so then it becomes, well,was that profitable or not?
SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
And uh yeah, so you need to be able to tell how many
actual jobs you ran that month.
Um, I mean, and listen, it'sstill tricky, it's still kind of
cloudy, but it's still a goodmetric.
And I love to see how many newcustomers you gained every
month.
Um, and so when you really startsegmenting out your marketing
and what the intent was behindeach marketing tactic, so you
know it's really nice to be ableto get a broad customer
(22:44):
acquisition cost.
So, what did you spend inmarketing that month versus how
many customers reacted with yourcompany that month?
Now, listen, some of y'all aregonna get all bent out of shape
over it being um, well, theseare what about when they're an
existing customer?
Well, listen, odds are that'swell, it's still an acquisition
cost, right?
You still had to like get themre-engaged, especially those of
(23:04):
us that aren't on reoccurringservice models.
So, you know, like you need anew HVAC system and things like
that.
So definitely an interestingthing, but great marketing is
really not magic.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
I love my roofing company that did our roof uh
about four or five years ago.
I could not tell you the name ofthat company.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Well, nor are you, uh, and nor are you gonna need
them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Yeah, right, exactly very soon.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
So and so I I hope not anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
And so in another five or six years, when I might
be in the market again, they'recompletely out of mind, right?
So even though I might show upas a previous customer, it would
be pure happenstance because I'mjust gonna search for a new one.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
And listen, some of y'all hang on to that like it's
a prize.
And I'm like, listen, uh again,we love to track new customer
acquisition and new customeracquisition and you know, uh
existing customer turn and howwe how we make those work.
So, but the good news is uh ifyou look at it this way,
marketing is not really magic,right?
It's really about momentum andstacking and growing different
(24:07):
tactics together, and the rightsystems make it really possible.
So, you know, that leads me intotracking in general.
So, you know, I feel like whenpeople tell us, oh, it's not
working, something's notworking, they're not actually
tracking it.
So, like they're really goingoff of their gut feelings.
So, you know, you kind ofmentioned this, but how do you
think contractors could getbetter visibility uh without
feeling like they're overwhelmedwith all this data that we just
(24:28):
talked about?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Well, I think the biggest thing is knowing what
you're gonna track up front.
That's one of the biggest thingsthat we always try to hone in on
is is this aid cost per lead oris this the customer acquisition
cost?
We forecast out what makes sensefor that market.
So, you know, let's say thatyou're a HBAC company in like
Des Moines.
Well, then we should be able tofigure out um, and uh we have
(24:52):
sophisticated ways to do it, buteven if you're just doing like
the poor man's version of it, uhlook up like what the average
spend is in your market and whatthe average uh conversion rates
are.
Because we should be able totell you up front, like, okay,
you're probably looking at abouta whatever it is, you know,$25
lead cost per lead and about ahundred dollar customer
(25:13):
acquisition cost.
Those are things that should beestablished up front, and then
it just becomes a you knowreport card of like pass fail.
Like, did we hit that?
You know, usually in that firstmonth is always the one where
we're always very upfront aboutthis because you're taking a
guess, right?
You're guessing at the creative,you're guessing at the audience.
Yeah, first month is always thehardest, and then uh, so you're
(25:35):
you're just like, all right,what this was where we should be
at, but four weeks in might missthat.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You sit my brain, you saw you probably saw me like
look down for a minute, and Iwas like, my brain went crazy
with this word, the guessing.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
Yes, but it is an educated guess.
That is the dirty secret ofmarketing, right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Absolutely, it is so clunky and messy for you back to
for you to be guessing, and itreally what you just said like
stuck out to me.
And I was like, I was lookingdown, I was thinking it's so
detrimental, yeah.
So detrimental to people.
So you don't need and you don'thave to, right?
There's all these different waysthat you can track all the
(26:18):
things that you mentioned, um,are powerful ways to know, guys.
Why do you not want to be in theknow, right?
Why do you not want to know umwhat they're what's happening
and how you can measure it?
So, you know, I think that umone tool that I would recommend,
like for analytics andsimplifying leads.
So if you don't have a CRM thathas it built in, like call rail,
(26:41):
is an easy tool to go bytracking phone numbers, tie them
all together, and be able tothen look and see at least what
phone numbers are gettingtraction to them.
But what about you?
Do you have another tool?
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
Uh we use GoHigh Level a lot, um, which I try to
say, uh, which kind of blendsthe between uh callrail and a
CRM, uh, especially if a companydoesn't have like a great CRM,
that kind of allows us to uhbecause we can also then uh the
only reason I like that a littlebetter than CallRail is because
we can set up a phone tree sothat if it's someone calling, we
(27:17):
can have like one or two orthree different voice options,
which gives us the the abilityto sort of weed out bad leads
better than uh better you knowbetter than callrail.
But that's that's the onlyreason I like Go High Level
better.
But yeah, because then we cansay, like, are you a new
customer, existing customer,blah blah blah.
And then we can have them choosefrom a list, which just gives us
a very quick, yeah.
(27:38):
Okay, yes.
Not only did they have 200 phonecalls.
You had 200 phone calls and 80of them were new customer, you
know, or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Yeah, so that new customer number is so powerful
there for guys.
I just don't think listeners, Ijust don't think you understand
how much power there is innumbers.
And then, you know, honestly, tothink about this, Skip, like how
awesome is it when you'reactually able to get good
feedback from your contractorsand you're able to say, Hey,
(28:06):
Skip, this worked really wellfor me.
I loved it.
Thank you for you know showingme this.
And like, but then they can turnaround and say, Hey, I didn't
get any.
And you can say, Well, let'spivot here.
Being a good partner to yourdigital agency or to your other
vendor partners is imperative toyour overall success.
I definitely think so.
But you can't scale if you don'ttrack.
(28:27):
Um, and even small wins that youlearn will become repeatable
things that you can put intoplace.
And listen, you're gonna hitstrides where some things are
working really well, and thenyou're gonna back it all the way
up and you're like, whathappened?
It's like I hit a brick wall,but being able to communicate
that um that clearly.
Well, skip before we end today'scall, I love this little wild
(28:48):
career ride that you went on,right?
So I want to go back.
I think your story's kind of toogood.
I think contractors love to hearthis, but um, you know, what was
your first real marketing winthat you can remember?
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
Well, my first the my my very first marketing win
um was I was 16 and I was acopywriter and I ended up
getting uh someone had submittedmy thing to the South Carolina
Broadcasters Association endedup winning the SCVA Star Award,
which was like a big deal.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
But um it was also sort of a that was a big deal
for two reasons.
One, it was nice to actually winan award and all that stuff,
especially at that young of anage.
But the other piece of it wasthat that client canceled um off
of that campaign, totallyunrelated.
And that when I dug into it, Iended up realizing um that that
(29:41):
campaign didn't perform.
And I so here I was accepting anaward for a campaign that didn't
produce results, and so thatdichotomy just sort of stuck
with me forever of like, okay,I'm not gonna chase awards
anymore.
It's it and instead of uh had mesort of like hyper focused on
like.
Like, I don't know, that thatwas like a pivotal pivotal
(30:02):
moment in my uh in my careerbecause I was like, hey, that's
cool.
But also that campaign didn'tproduce, so you shouldn't be
given awards for that.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Yeah, so this is interesting.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Well, I love that.
I think that's so fun.
But you're right, like and I seethis all the time.
I I'll look and I'm like, theyhave that contractor on a
national stage that that has hada phalanx a company for three
years.
So it's an interesting approach.
Exactly.
And then skip how if people areinterested in what you do and
how you do it, how can theyreach out to you?
SPEAKER_00 (30:33):
Uh the best way would be uh email info at um
draftmediapartners.com uh orinfo at draft advertising.com.
Both those go to the same place.
And uh I would say that's thethat's the best way.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Okay.
And then what can you help themdo?
Like what problem can you solvefor most of our contractors?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
The biggest thing that we so we started off as
dynamic response advertisingforecast technology or draft
technology, which uh was theimmediate planning tool that we
sold uh as a software as aservice to agencies.
That was our sort of firstgo-to-market uh product before
we had a number of people justbe like, can you just do the ads
as well?
And so we ended up pivoting intothat.
(31:11):
But that is still, I would say,one of the most helpful tools is
helping uh contractors figureout what should a cost per lead
and customer acquisition costfor them be in their market,
given their you know the size,scope, and scale.
And so that is something that wedo at no charge now because we
hope that they love it and thatthey buy the campaign from us.
(31:32):
But even if you don't, we can atleast tell you what the numbers
should look like.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
Yeah, I love it.
So, all about customeracquisition cost.
Basically, an audit.
Perfect, perfect.
Exactly.
Okay, well, hey, Skip, thank youso much for like breaking down
this chaos and just talking withme through all these cool
things.
Um, as you could tell, my headwas down taking all these notes.
I even put a note in my phonehere about um reaching out to
you to even possibly do awebinar soon because I would
(31:57):
love to do a webinar just aroundcost of acquisition.
Um, and that's I literally wastexting my assistant like this
would be such a great webinarbecause cust cost customer
acquisition cost is so uhforgotten that people don't know
how to do it.
So, anyway, I'd love to talkmore about that.
So uh thank you so much.
And guys, thank you forlistening to another episode of
(32:18):
From the Yellow Chair.
Be watching for skipping my ourwebinar going to come out in the
next couple of months,evidently.
Absolutely.
But thank y'all so much forlistening to another episode.
If you've loved what you heard,we would love for you to go give
us a review, but uh continue toshare us with others.
Thank you so much for all thelikes and follows that have
happened lately.
We are well on our way to 50,000downloads.
So keep pushing that for us.
(32:38):
And thank y'all so much.
Everyone have a great day andskip, thank you again.
What's up, Limit Heads?
Welcome to another episode ofFrom the Yellow Chair.
I am Crystal, and today I'mreally excited.
I love talking to othermarketing people.
When marketing people talk tomarketing people, we just hit a
vibe.
Just a vibe, and we love it.
And so those of you that hatemarketing but are forced to
listen to this podcast so thatyou can be participating in the
(00:20):
marketing for your company.
I really think you're gonnaenjoy this episode because we're
gonna get a little outside thebox thinking about overall
marketing strategies.
So I've got a CEO on the calltoday with me or on the podcast
today that is over an adexecution company.
So very a unique approach.
We talked about how I'm on oneside of the coin and these on
(00:41):
the other.
And so, guys, let's get ready.
I hope you're watching onYouTube or you're listening at
your favorite place for podcastsare, but buckle up, guys, let's
zip some lemonade.
(01:03):
All right, Skip, welcome to theLimited Stand.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
From the Yellow Chair, absolutely.
So, Skip Wilson, you're the CEOof Draft Media Partners, and you
are gonna tell us a little bitabout yourself and why anyone
should listen to what you haveto say today.
SPEAKER_00 (01:20):
Absolutely.
Well, I've my whole career hasbeen in like one industry, which
is the advertising industry.
So it's perfect.
Right.
Yeah, exactly.
I would have to be at leastdecent at it, um, right?
You'd think after 20 years orso.
But yeah, um the I started offuh as a copywriter and then went
on to uh as a from a freelancerinto web design, and then uh
(01:42):
from that was a time order whenwe launched uh our
user-generated content platformand then went over to Clear
Channel Radio and we launchedwhat was became the iHeartRadio
app and was the vice presidentof digital media for iHeart
Media for about 12 years beforefounding draft and and going off
uh going off on on my own.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Awesome, awesome.
And you know, I love it whenpeople have been around in the
tactic side.
So you've seen success, you'veseen people not do it right,
you've seen people do itcompletely wrong, like you've
seen people make a disaster ofthemselves.
But I love that today we'regonna be talking a lot about um
marketing feels all over theplace for a lot of people and
(02:21):
how contractors are not alone inthat.
So let's start off with whysystems beat scatter every
single time, right?
So you've worked with everyonefrom radio giants to these small
uh service shops.
You know, why do you think somany home service businesses um
are really struggling to gettheir marketing maybe organized
or off the ground?
(02:42):
You know, I have my own opinionof this, but I'm very curious
about what you think.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
Well, so there it's a very much a lead-based
business, which you know isgood.
Uh most businesses in some formor fashion are lead-based.
Uh we'll say because of thatfocus, though, only on the
bottom of funnel, uh, it causeslike hit or miss advertising
sometimes.
And there's good and bad on bothsides.
Like sometimes there's beenplenty of businesses that made
(03:07):
an entire career off of Facebookads.
And then when Facebook changestheir algorithm, it completely
blows up their model.
And then likewise, there's youknow, they'll get addicted to
like Google ads, and then all ofa sudden Google rolls out Google
Guarantee, and you know, justthose little changes when you
become platform dependent, um,it just opens you up to you know
needless risk, right?
(03:28):
And then and that's if that's ifyou find a campaign that's
working.
Uh, if you find a campaign, butyou know, a lot of times they're
just keep trying different stuffand hoping that something works,
and so it's kind of dangerous onboth sides.
SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Absolutely.
And you know, we um I call thatthe hamster wheel.
So we have contractors that theylive so much at the bottom of
funnel.
So uh to to you know, settlethis a little bit for people
that are listening, like, whatis this funnel?
You know, every consumer is inthis someplace in the funnel of
leading down to actually makinga decision.
So from not a lot of us, I liketo focus on top of the funnel um
(04:02):
pretty extensively, meaningthese are people that aren't
even considering your businessright now.
They don't need your business,but they're just in the
consideration they're just inthe where you can make a an
impression phase, right?
Like you're just trying to buildawareness with them all the way
down to the bottom of thatfunnel, which is people ready to
make a decision right now.
They need your service rightnow.
Um, and so that top of thefunnel, bottom of the funnel
(04:24):
piece.
But when you live on thathamster wheel where you're
always chasing people that areready to make a decision right
now, there's only so many ofthose to go around.
So so much of your marketingstrategy truly has to be built
around both marathon and sprintstrategies so that you can have
a collective approach tobuilding your business.
And when you don't, and youhyper focus on the hamster wheel
(04:46):
or lead gen only, I believe thatit it really is a very it's
emotionally taxing as well, um,you know, to the contractor for
sure.
So um okay.
So what do you think the mostcommon signs of business is
scattered in their marketing?
Like what are some identifiersto you that really pop out?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
One of the biggest like red flags is if there's
whole like tactic changes uhfrom like six, seven times, you
know, over the course of threeyears, if you are completely
blowing up your marketingstrategy, that is a sign that
you're kind of hoping that youfind something that works.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
(05:26):
And that just creates thatconstant start and stop of
things, uh, which is just wastesa lot of budget because yeah,
people that are everyone wantsto show up when someone's
searching for you know new roof,right?
Or if you're a roof, sure, sure,yeah, yeah.
And that's definitely important,but that's you know, that's
where everybody's chasing.
So that's the most expensivetype of lead.
(05:46):
And you really do want to be,you want them Googling your
name, right?
Instead of just Googling uh H VA C near me.
SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Story of my life there.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
So yeah, yeah, you want to be on both of those
searches, right?
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Yeah, yeah.
So that's why I'm like, this ismarketing, is a multifaceted
approach, right?
We've got to build brand, we'vegot to get build call to action
to gain new customers, and wehave to cultivate the existing
customers that we have accessto.
But you said something here, andI might have misinterpreted
this, but I have a client rightnow who they're on their third
digital partner in two years.
Now, listen, sometimes I want tobe like, now listen, I'm gonna
(06:20):
treat you like a breakup.
It's not me, it is you 100%,right?
And here's why contractors,y'all are frustrated, you feel
misled, you feel misguided, youfeel like you've wasted money.
Here's here is the harsh realityabout especially, especially
digital marketing.
Okay.
Uh, it sucks, it's alwayschanging, and you have to have
(06:42):
it.
So it is it is all threeterrible things, okay?
But once you go, okay, this is agame that I've got to play.
It does not behoove you toconstantly be bitterly bopping
around to all these differentvendors, okay?
You must get connected withsomeone that you trust.
So this is what I recommend whenyou're interviewing digital
agencies, right?
(07:03):
I recommend that we this is whatLemon Seed is going to do.
Tell us your secret sauce.
Why are you different thananyone else?
And what you're listening forare what are their strategies,
what are their techniques, whatare their philosophies, okay?
Digital marketing is somethingthat you have to have a thought
around.
You have to have a way that youdo it.
So that's why there are severalgood digital marketing agencies,
(07:26):
especially in the home servicespace.
But the reason that they're allgood is they all have a
different strategy, a differentway they approach and they
interpret Google's informationback to them, uh, the way they
the way they approach AI.
So it doesn't behoove you tojump around.
Um, because it's like you'restarting and stopping, right?
Like you're just like start,stop, start, stop.
(07:47):
And then you're mad that they'renot performing when really those
are marathon approaches,especially, especially those of
you that are looking for SEO.
Now, if you're over here on thePPC side, right, Google local
service ad side, uh, you know,other types of paid ad spending
like that, those should have alittle bit quicker.
But honestly, you're just notdoing yourself any favors by
jumping around.
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
That's right.
Yeah, if I if we're meeting witha with an end advertiser, most
of our stuff is white label orbehind the scenes of other of
other companies.
But when we are meeting with anwith an end advertiser and
they've had two or threecompanies over the past, say
five years, and they want atactic like SEO, which can take
a year or more to pay off.
I completely avoid that topicwith them because I'm like,
(08:30):
they're not going to have thepatience for it.
You know, I know that it's uhyou know, I'm not gonna give
them a 12-month strategy whenthey, you know, when I know that
they're jumping around every sixmonths or so.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
So, so what do you think is thefirst system that maybe
contractors should prioritize?
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
So I think the first thing is figuring out like who
is your audience, and then likespecific to your company, like
like you said, what makes youdifferent, and then who cares
about that?
And then you figure out who youraudience is, get that defined,
then you figure out what thatthing you're trying to get them
to do is, whether it's phonecalls or form fills or et
cetera.
(09:06):
And then from that you build outthe media plan, which you know,
it whether you're having aprofessional do that or not,
what that does is then thatinsulates you so that if
Facebook makes a change orGoogle makes a change or a
platform makes a change, you go,okay, well, where is this
audience now?
You know, maybe they left thisplatform and went over to this
other platform or did somethingelse.
(09:27):
But it gives you sort of hooksto sort of change a campaign so
that when you start it, if it'snot generating the results that
you want, you know which whichpiece to move on.
Like, do we try a differentaudience?
Do we try a different message?
Do we try a different result?
You know, if if we were heavy onphone calls and they're not
converting, then let's go heavyon something else.
(09:47):
It sort of gives you sort ofthree levers to pull to adjust
to actually get something that'sperforming consistently.
And then then you can sort ofpick it up and plug it into any
number of things.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I love that.
So let's let's go back to thisideal, the ideal audience, your
audience.
So if you're marketing toeveryone, you're really
marketing to no one, right?
So true marketing is aboutpulling emotions.
This sounds so corny.
Some of y'all are gonna be likewomp, womp, womp, crystal.
But really, at the end of theday, this is a messaging play.
So you've got to figure out howto get some cool messaging, some
(10:21):
cool offers, some cool calls toaction in your mix that really
um are speaking directly to youraudience.
You cannot afford to speak toevery single person out there.
So when you look at Walmart,Walmart knows you know they've
got all the rollbacks becausethey know who they are talking
to.
They have identified theircustomer versus Target.
(10:42):
Everything Target is not lookingfor bottom dollar shoppers.
That's not their plan.
There, they are they know it,they own it, they lean into it,
right?
So you have to know youraudience.
But the other thing that yousaid here is a unique selling
position.
So let me tell you things thatare not unique selling positions
any longer.
Family owned and operated.
Now, y'all are gonna laugh atthis.
(11:04):
It might begin that way asprivate equity continues to
swallow up things.
Okay.
But right now, family owned andoperated, unless you really,
really lean into the familypiece, like you go this
traditional wholesome familyroute, or to be honest, the
other direction, maybe you'rewanting to be a lot more, um, a
lot more open-minded of whatfamilies could be.
(11:25):
Let me again, you'd have to leanhard into that.
Um, also, like we're when youuse any words that you have to
tell people so that we'retrustworthy.
Okay, well, you're probably not,right?
We're honest and loyal.
I hope so.
Right.
So you you got to get past thosethings and you got to dig deeper
of are you the client that hasuh multiple, are you the
contractor that has multiple uhfinancing options?
(11:48):
Are you the client that's uh thecontractor that's open Monday
through Sunday, seven, you know,7 a.m., 7 p.m., no overtime
charges.
Are you the client that doessame-day install?
Like what is unique about youthat not everyone, if you can
look at your ad and putanybody's name at the top of it,
it's not you.
It's not unique, it's notstanding out, it's not growing
(12:08):
anything.
And then you also mentionedlevers.
Levers are such a core componentof what Living Seed offers,
which is basically backup plansfor us.
We want to have like backupplans to where, man, when lead
volume is low, what could we do?
And I'm gonna tell you that youneed to already have your
partner stack, meaning, likethese are all of the vendor
(12:29):
partners that I have at in my umquiller here of uh arrows that I
can pull out to shoot.
So, you know, you gotta if youwant to do texting and voice,
ringless voicemail drops andthings like that, you need to be
with Terp already.
So don't wait till you're toolate to do that.
Get with Terp now, right?
So there's there's lots of coolthings that you need to do
(12:50):
there.
So basically when you'rebuilding systems, right?
Um, instead of just chasingtactic after tactic and what's
new and whatever's rolling outin front of you, you need to
make sure that your marketing issustainable and scalable, right?
So let's break down a system orso, right?
So what's the ideal stack thatyou recommend uh for contractors
(13:11):
who want to get their operationsand maybe their marketing in
sync?
Um, you know, is it like CRMsand what are what are you seeing
out there?
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
Yeah, that's so CRM is obviously important.
Like there's certain things thatwe you almost sort of have to
assume.
Like if you don't have this inin place, you probably shouldn't
market yet.
And one of those things is someway to handle like a large
volume of customers, you know,coming in.
And uh part of that is a CRM.
You should also have some sortof lead nurturing in place.
In other words, once somebodyreaches out or fills out a form
(13:42):
or reaches out to you, if theyno-show on that appointment, you
know, you want to go ahead andhave some of those automatic
responses um already built out.
And then uh you want to havethat in place really prior to,
or in my opinion, uh prior todoing any sort of paid outreach,
because you know, as always,even the majority of leads,
(14:04):
you're gonna close a third ofthem, even at you know, even at
good leads and good sell, and ifeven if you have great sellers,
so you need something to helpcapture the value in those other
two-thirds, because you know,they'll close eventually, but it
might not be for six months.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Rather slow, slow cycle there.
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
Exactly.
So once you've got that inplace, the first place I would
start is your basic searches,making sure that you are uh you
know that you are showing up insearch.
I would say that going all in onSEO now is gonna be difficult
for most uh most people in theservice business because SEO
(14:41):
this past year, really justsince summer of last year, has
taken such a hit, it's gonna bevery difficult because of AI
searches and AI responses andthings.
So if you're already doing it,keep up the efforts.
If you are new to the game, Iprobably would make sure that
you are decent in the SEO space,but that's I would it's gonna be
(15:02):
hard to become great because youare likely competing with uh
some major uh private equityfirms that are dropping 10 grand
or so into their site um in SEOa month.
And then beyond that, focusingin on search and keep scaling up
the and keep scaling sort of upthat funnel, making sure that
you show up in search, thenmaking sure that you are
(15:24):
building a brand first insocial, but then ideally getting
some like video and audiotactics and even things like you
know, direct mail is making aresurgence um and doing well in
the in the search in the homeservices space uh and performing
well.
It's not something that you wantto do every single month uh
unless you do we do have we havea way where you can target
(15:46):
direct mail uh to people whohave come to your site and
haven't taken action.
Um but so you could do somethinglike that.
But if unless it's somethinglike that, you don't want to
have necessarily it's somethingthat you probably want to do
quarterly instead of uh insteadof every single month uh as far
as m mass direct mail drops.
Uh but you but it is worthstarting to build a brand
(16:08):
because we live in a world nowwhere you can target on a
household level.
So in other words, you can showup on video to that same house
so that uh because they did aHVAC search you know two days
ago, you can now show up invideo to that household.
And uh that's exactly becausethey most likely, unless they
had a very immediate need, theymost likely didn't take action
(16:30):
when they searched two days ago.
They're just sort of in thatresearch phase.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yep, yep.
Okay, so love this because Ilove all these ideas, right?
So again, this is a digitalplay, but I love how it's other
options, right?
So I love that you were like,you know, people that are
visiting your site, you canretarget them with direct mail.
Yep.
And so it shows intent, right?
It shows that they already,number one, they already trusted
(16:55):
you, they found you.
So now what can they do?
Right.
Um, you know, like literally foryou, you're like, okay, what can
I get them to do?
Uh and so they they they showedsome sort of interest.
And so now you can send themthese postcards.
Tell me, like, how um what doesthat look like?
So do they have to stay on thesite very long before you send
the postcard?
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
They have to the only thing they've had to have
said yes to is sharing theirlocation.
Uh so it does require a cookiedisclaimer.
Um, the so when they come to thesite, as long as they say yes to
allowing cookies, which 80% ofpeople do, um, because we're so
used to saying yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Oh, 80% of people say yes.
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (17:30):
Yes, exactly.
Um, and uh and that is sort ofgeographics, you know,
geographically uh specific.
Usually rural areas say yes at ahigher rate, urban areas say uh
yes at a lower rate, but rightacross the board in the US
that's 80%.
And then as long as they dothat, then we can as long as we
do that and live in a singlefamily home, we you can send a
(17:52):
you can send them a direct mailpiece.
I say that because some peoplelive in like apartment.
Now that doesn't you don't runinto that too much in the home
services space because if theylive in an apartment, why would
they be searching for a roof?
But but right, yeah.
I still want to put that caveaton there because it does happen.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Well, and you never know too, like, you know, do
they live there and own a rentalhome?
I mean, there's all kinds oflittle drama that can go on, but
the the the risk here there'svery little risk uh at the end
of the day.
At the end of the day, so solove love those ideas there that
you mentioned.
Love serendipitous.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
It seems serendipitous to the person
because you know, let's say thatI was considering like a
tankless hot water heater.
Well, that's not an immediateneed, right?
Like that's something I could doa little bit of research before
I actually pull the trigger on.
And it's when I get thatpostcard in the mail, which we
usually will do the like six bynine, the like the big bigger
one, yeah.
And uh it's like, oh, I was justthinking about this company.
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
Yeah, oh they read my mind.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, right, exactly.
It's like, oh, that's perfect.
I was just thinking about them.
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
Yeah, and let me tell you like this is all a part
of creative marketingstrategies.
This is a really good examplewhere it's not perfect for
everyone, but it's really goodfor a lot, and it's just about
working these things into yourstrategy.
And so, you know, your digital,like so your website hosting,
your SEO, your paid ad strategy,your retargeting strategy, your
social media strategy, yourdirect mail strategy.
(19:13):
All of those things requirecoordination to keep them all
rolling on time and when you'redoing them.
And honestly, guys, budget.
So many of you want caviar overhere giving me a tuna fish
budget.
And so, you know, there's adifference.
You have tuna fish money, thenwe need it.
We need to get the very besttuna fish that we can get,
right?
(19:33):
So it's not that you don't haveenough to be successful, you
just have to be very picky andvery selective and very
intentional.
As your budget for marketinggrows, then your opportunities
and your options grow.
And so that's why it's it'sreally important that people
understand a strategy is morethan one tactic, it's more than
one avenue of growing yourbusiness that you just got to
(19:54):
get focused on.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Um, and so don't to that end, I would encourage like
most uh most folks in the homeservices business are so focused
on cost per lead because thatwas the end all be all of
metrics to focus on.
But now we live in a world whereyou can do matchbacks and those
things.
So we try to encourage everyoneto focus more on customer
acquisition cost, you know,which if you have there are
(20:18):
fancy ways to track that umthrough like CRM matching and
those things.
But even if you have just likethe poor man's cocktail napkin
version of it of how manycustomers you had divided, you
know, or your media spenddivided by your um how many
customers you had.
Yeah, that's such a core metricbecause that matters more, uh,
you know, that matters a lotmore than cost per lead.
(20:39):
Because we can get cheap leadsall day, but they don't convert,
right?
And then that doesn't do anybodyany good.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
So break this down a little bit if you're
comfortable.
Like what how do you tellsomeone to calculate their
customer acquisition cost?
SPEAKER_00 (20:52):
Well, so we have um that didn't mean that this to be
a shameless plug, but we do havea way uh using that same
technology to take um youessentially from a CRM what's
the uh names, addresses, andphone numbers, emails of the
jobs that were run in a month,and compare that to the actual
like ad logs of what householdswere exposed.
So that is a very specific wayto get so y'all have a match
(21:16):
back, basically.
Correct.
Exactly.
So because some things are moretrackable than others, like Hulu
ads, for example, are theyyou're not clicking them, right?
Because they're on your TV.
And so you can't get a directattribution.
But if we know that thathousehold was exposed to the ad
and then showed up as a newcustomer, pretty safe to say
that that's you know, at leastwe're yeah, it was a part of
(21:38):
their journey in some form orfashion.
Okay, correct.
Exactly.
Um, and so that's the like onthe fancier end of uh of
calculating that, where you geta very specific number.
But like I said, even if youdon't, like if you know what
your baseline of business is nowand you try a new tactic,
compare your, you know, how muchdid you, you know, did you spend
(21:59):
whatever?
Let's say 10 grand in inadvertising and you had a
hundred customers, just to makethe math easy.
Uh, well, that would be uh well,that'd be too.
Let's say you had a thousandcustomers, then you had a um or
a hundred customers, you had athousand customer acquisition
cost, right?
And so then it becomes, well,was that profitable or not?
SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
And uh yeah, so you need to be able to tell how many
actual jobs you ran that month.
Um, I mean, and listen, it'sstill tricky, it's still kind of
cloudy, but it's still a goodmetric.
And I love to see how many newcustomers you gained every
month.
Um, and so when you really startsegmenting out your marketing
and what the intent was behindeach marketing tactic, so you
know it's really nice to be ableto get a broad customer
(22:44):
acquisition cost.
So, what did you spend inmarketing that month versus how
many customers reacted with yourcompany that month?
Now, listen, some of y'all aregonna get all bent out of shape
over it being um, well, theseare what about when they're an
existing customer?
Well, listen, odds are that'swell, it's still an acquisition
cost, right?
You still had to like get themre-engaged, especially those of
(23:04):
us that aren't on reoccurringservice models.
So, you know, like you need anew HVAC system and things like
that.
So definitely an interestingthing, but great marketing is
really not magic.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
I love my roofing company that did our roof uh
about four or five years ago.
I could not tell you the name ofthat company.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Well, nor are you, uh, and nor are you gonna need
them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Yeah, right, exactly very soon.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
So and so I I hope not anyway.
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
And so in another five or six years, when I might
be in the market again, they'recompletely out of mind, right?
So even though I might show upas a previous customer, it would
be pure happenstance because I'mjust gonna search for a new one.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
And listen, some of y'all hang on to that like it's
a prize.
And I'm like, listen, uh again,we love to track new customer
acquisition and new customeracquisition and you know, uh
existing customer turn and howwe how we make those work.
So, but the good news is uh ifyou look at it this way,
marketing is not really magic,right?
It's really about momentum andstacking and growing different
(24:07):
tactics together, and the rightsystems make it really possible.
So, you know, that leads me intotracking in general.
So, you know, I feel like whenpeople tell us, oh, it's not
working, something's notworking, they're not actually
tracking it.
So, like they're really goingoff of their gut feelings.
So, you know, you kind ofmentioned this, but how do you
think contractors could getbetter visibility uh without
feeling like they're overwhelmedwith all this data that we just
(24:28):
talked about?
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Well, I think the biggest thing is knowing what
you're gonna track up front.
That's one of the biggest thingsthat we always try to hone in on
is is this aid cost per lead oris this the customer acquisition
cost?
We forecast out what makes sensefor that market.
So, you know, let's say thatyou're a HBAC company in like
Des Moines.
Well, then we should be able tofigure out um, and uh we have
(24:52):
sophisticated ways to do it, buteven if you're just doing like
the poor man's version of it, uhlook up like what the average
spend is in your market and whatthe average uh conversion rates
are.
Because we should be able totell you up front, like, okay,
you're probably looking at abouta whatever it is, you know,$25
lead cost per lead and about ahundred dollar customer
(25:13):
acquisition cost.
Those are things that should beestablished up front, and then
it just becomes a you knowreport card of like pass fail.
Like, did we hit that?
You know, usually in that firstmonth is always the one where
we're always very upfront aboutthis because you're taking a
guess, right?
You're guessing at the creative,you're guessing at the audience.
Yeah, first month is always thehardest, and then uh, so you're
(25:35):
you're just like, all right,what this was where we should be
at, but four weeks in might missthat.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
You sit my brain, you saw you probably saw me like
look down for a minute, and Iwas like, my brain went crazy
with this word, the guessing.
SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
Yes, but it is an educated guess.
That is the dirty secret ofmarketing, right?
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Absolutely, it is so clunky and messy for you back to
for you to be guessing, and itreally what you just said like
stuck out to me.
And I was like, I was lookingdown, I was thinking it's so
detrimental, yeah.
So detrimental to people.
So you don't need and you don'thave to, right?
There's all these different waysthat you can track all the
(26:18):
things that you mentioned, um,are powerful ways to know, guys.
Why do you not want to be in theknow, right?
Why do you not want to know umwhat they're what's happening
and how you can measure it?
So, you know, I think that umone tool that I would recommend,
like for analytics andsimplifying leads.
So if you don't have a CRM thathas it built in, like call rail,
(26:41):
is an easy tool to go bytracking phone numbers, tie them
all together, and be able tothen look and see at least what
phone numbers are gettingtraction to them.
But what about you?
Do you have another tool?
SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
Uh we use GoHigh Level a lot, um, which I try to
say, uh, which kind of blendsthe between uh callrail and a
CRM, uh, especially if a companydoesn't have like a great CRM,
that kind of allows us to uhbecause we can also then uh the
only reason I like that a littlebetter than CallRail is because
we can set up a phone tree sothat if it's someone calling, we
(27:17):
can have like one or two orthree different voice options,
which gives us the the abilityto sort of weed out bad leads
better than uh better you knowbetter than callrail.
But that's that's the onlyreason I like Go High Level
better.
But yeah, because then we cansay, like, are you a new
customer, existing customer,blah blah blah.
And then we can have them choosefrom a list, which just gives us
a very quick, yeah.
(27:38):
Okay, yes.
Not only did they have 200 phonecalls.
You had 200 phone calls and 80of them were new customer, you
know, or whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Yeah, so that new customer number is so powerful
there for guys.
I just don't think listeners, Ijust don't think you understand
how much power there is innumbers.
And then, you know, honestly, tothink about this, Skip, like how
awesome is it when you'reactually able to get good
feedback from your contractorsand you're able to say, Hey,
(28:06):
Skip, this worked really wellfor me.
I loved it.
Thank you for you know showingme this.
And like, but then they can turnaround and say, Hey, I didn't
get any.
And you can say, Well, let'spivot here.
Being a good partner to yourdigital agency or to your other
vendor partners is imperative toyour overall success.
I definitely think so.
But you can't scale if you don'ttrack.
(28:27):
Um, and even small wins that youlearn will become repeatable
things that you can put intoplace.
And listen, you're gonna hitstrides where some things are
working really well, and thenyou're gonna back it all the way
up and you're like, whathappened?
It's like I hit a brick wall,but being able to communicate
that um that clearly.
Well, skip before we end today'scall, I love this little wild
(28:48):
career ride that you went on,right?
So I want to go back.
I think your story's kind of toogood.
I think contractors love to hearthis, but um, you know, what was
your first real marketing winthat you can remember?
SPEAKER_00 (29:02):
Well, my first the my my very first marketing win
um was I was 16 and I was acopywriter and I ended up
getting uh someone had submittedmy thing to the South Carolina
Broadcasters Association endedup winning the SCVA Star Award,
which was like a big deal.
SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00 (29:19):
But um it was also sort of a that was a big deal
for two reasons.
One, it was nice to actually winan award and all that stuff,
especially at that young of anage.
But the other piece of it wasthat that client canceled um off
of that campaign, totallyunrelated.
And that when I dug into it, Iended up realizing um that that
(29:41):
campaign didn't perform.
And I so here I was accepting anaward for a campaign that didn't
produce results, and so thatdichotomy just sort of stuck
with me forever of like, okay,I'm not gonna chase awards
anymore.
It's it and instead of uh had mesort of like hyper focused on
like.
Like, I don't know, that thatwas like a pivotal pivotal
(30:02):
moment in my uh in my careerbecause I was like, hey, that's
cool.
But also that campaign didn'tproduce, so you shouldn't be
given awards for that.
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Yeah, so this is interesting.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Well, I love that.
I think that's so fun.
But you're right, like and I seethis all the time.
I I'll look and I'm like, theyhave that contractor on a
national stage that that has hada phalanx a company for three
years.
So it's an interesting approach.
Exactly.
And then skip how if people areinterested in what you do and
how you do it, how can theyreach out to you?
SPEAKER_00 (30:33):
Uh the best way would be uh email info at um
draftmediapartners.com uh orinfo at draft advertising.com.
Both those go to the same place.
And uh I would say that's thethat's the best way.
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Okay.
And then what can you help themdo?
Like what problem can you solvefor most of our contractors?
SPEAKER_00 (30:50):
The biggest thing that we so we started off as
dynamic response advertisingforecast technology or draft
technology, which uh was theimmediate planning tool that we
sold uh as a software as aservice to agencies.
That was our sort of firstgo-to-market uh product before
we had a number of people justbe like, can you just do the ads
as well?
And so we ended up pivoting intothat.
(31:11):
But that is still, I would say,one of the most helpful tools is
helping uh contractors figureout what should a cost per lead
and customer acquisition costfor them be in their market,
given their you know the size,scope, and scale.
And so that is something that wedo at no charge now because we
hope that they love it and thatthey buy the campaign from us.
(31:32):
But even if you don't, we can atleast tell you what the numbers
should look like.
SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
Yeah, I love it.
So, all about customeracquisition cost.
Basically, an audit.
Perfect, perfect.
Exactly.
Okay, well, hey, Skip, thank youso much for like breaking down
this chaos and just talking withme through all these cool
things.
Um, as you could tell, my headwas down taking all these notes.
I even put a note in my phonehere about um reaching out to
you to even possibly do awebinar soon because I would
(31:57):
love to do a webinar just aroundcost of acquisition.
Um, and that's I literally wastexting my assistant like this
would be such a great webinarbecause cust cost customer
acquisition cost is so uhforgotten that people don't know
how to do it.
So, anyway, I'd love to talkmore about that.
So uh thank you so much.
And guys, thank you forlistening to another episode of
(32:18):
From the Yellow Chair.
Be watching for skipping my ourwebinar going to come out in the
next couple of months,evidently.
Absolutely.
But thank y'all so much forlistening to another episode.
If you've loved what you heard,we would love for you to go give
us a review, but uh continue toshare us with others.
Thank you so much for all thelikes and follows that have
happened lately.
We are well on our way to 50,000downloads.
So keep pushing that for us.
(32:38):
And thank y'all so much.
Everyone have a great day andskip, thank you again.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.