Top 5 Dumbest Mistakes Contractors Make (Are YOU on our List?)

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Ever wonder why some contractors seem to explode onto the scene while others struggle for decades without significant growth? The answer lies in avoiding what Crystal Williams and Eric Thomas call "the dumbest marketing mistakes" that plague the contracting industry.

This candid conversation dives deep into the nine critical errors preventing contractors from reaching their full potential. At the top of the list: woefully inadequate marketing budgets. While most contractors hover around 2-3% of revenue, true growth requires 8-10% investment based on revenue goals, not current earnings. As Crystal explains, "I'm rolling 12% deep when we're opening a new location on a million-dollar budget," a strategy that has consistently produced million-dollar companies within 20 months.

The discussion highlights how contractors frequently mismanage internal marketing positions, turning dedicated brand-builders into glorified customer service representatives. This misalignment wastes talent and prevents businesses from developing the community presence needed for sustainable growth. Both experts emphasize that marketing isn't about single tactics but requires an integrated strategy where all elements work together to strengthen your brand position.

Perhaps most revealing is their analysis of why contractors resist innovations like online pricing and scheduling. "I remember in 2019, when the thought of online scheduling was just the craziest thought in the world," Eric recalls. "But now that conversation is not happening anymore... we're facing that same thing right now with pricing transparency." Crystal adds, "You are not doing people a favor by servicing their air conditioner... Book the lead, book it, and then figure it out."

Whether you're struggling with imposter syndrome, relying too heavily on Facebook advice, or starting businesses without adequate marketing capital, this conversation provides actionable insights to transform your approach. The contractors who will dominate in the coming years aren't necessarily the most skilled technicians—they're the ones who master these marketing fundamentals and invest accordingly.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
All right, what's up?
Lemonheads?
Welcome back to another episodeof From the Yellow Chair.
I'm Rachel Durez, a graphicdesigner here at Lemon Seed
Marketing, and I'm excited to beback on the mic with you guys
today.
On this episode, we're divinginto the top five dumbest
mistakes contractors make.
Now, don't worry, we're nothere to poke fun.
We're also here to learn, togrow and make sure that you

(00:36):
avoid these pitfalls in your ownbusiness.
Whether you've been in the gamefor years or you're just
getting started, these insightsare going to help you tighten up
your strategy, connect withyour audience and build the kind
of brand that lasts.
So grab your headphones, settlein and let's sip some lemonade.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
We are really going to be talking about some of the
things that contractors do thatI call the dumbest mistakes and
I felt bad after I did thatbecause I thought dumb is a
strong word.
Innocent mistakes maybe is abetter way to say it until y'all
keep doing it, even thoughwe've told you not to do it.
Then it becomes dumb.
What do you think, Eric?

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I think some of them are pretty dumb.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Just dumb in general.
I think some of them are prettydumb, just dumb in general.
Yeah, man, I'm telling you, Icome from a home service
background.
So you know, my family ownedand operated a heating, cooling
and now plumbing company ownsactively.
And also my sister andbrother-in-law and my husband
worked at our family's pestcontrol company.

(01:41):
I have ownership, partownership, in a roofing company
and so, and I work withcontractors every single day.
It is wild to me some of thethings that I see happening and
I'm like, man, there's so muchfor me to cover with everyone.
But I know, I know what theyneed to do.
It's just a matter of gettingthem to do it.
So, eric, tell everybody alittle bit about yourself and

(02:03):
then we'll kind of jump intocontent.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Today, yeah, yeah, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to chat with thesocial media land.
My name is Eric Thomas.
I'm the founder and presidentof Rival Digital.
We are one of way too manydigital marketing agencies in
the world, but we're probablythe only ones that you know of

(02:25):
that have upside down hats.
So, yeah, I'm really passionateabout all things marketing and
the trades digital marketing,traditional advertising, any of
that good stuff.
I love talking about it,messaging, branding, all good
things.
I read a book called the HomeAdvantage and that is being
printed as we speak.

(02:46):
It might actually be deliveredtoday, so that could be exciting
.
At least the first round ofhard copies, yes, yeah, so I'll
have that save the date likepre-sale type deal going out,
probably on Facebook, hopefullythis week, kind of announcing
when that'll be done so folkscan get that, and I'm super
excited for that.
I post a podcast called theTrademark with our good friend

(03:08):
Sarah.
We do that weekly show.
A lot of good times on thereand, yeah, I'm kind of a
marketing dude Just trying tohave fun.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yes, yes, with two little kids in the house.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, yeah, two little kids yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yes, yes, yes.
So again I'm Crystal Williams,the co-founder and lead
strategist at Lemon SeedMarketing.
And just so everyone knows thatLemon Seed Marketing is not a
digital agency.
Therefore, we work with Eric onsome mutual clients and enjoy
that relationship a lot.
And so Lemon Seed is designedto be brand strategist, meaning
we help you build a fullstrategy about how to grow your

(03:45):
brand and then how to doadvertising with it.
And it is definitely that timeof the year for us to start
worrying I use worrying becausecontractors can't help it but
worrying about what you're goingto do in 2026 and planning, and
so the fall time is a greattime to not take your eye off
the ball for what you're goingto do during the shoulder season
for those of y'all that haveone but also looking ahead to

(04:08):
2026, and we would love to helpyou out.
So at any point you can dropyour email, you can email us at
hello at lemonseamarketingcom,and we're happy to jump on fun
banter back and forth, and heand I can really get going about
mistakes that we think thatcontractors make that is so

(04:28):
detrimental to their overallgrowth.
Now he and I both sit on themarketing side of growing a
business.
So I think there's three waysthat people can grow a business.
One of them is going to bebeing priced correctly and
efficiently, so most of youprobably need to take a price
increase.
Even if it's a small one, noone would even know it.
You'd automatically make upsome revenue.

(04:49):
The other one is operationalexcellence.
So lead generator, leadgeneration style companies like
Eric's company and like LemonSeed, rival Digital and Lemon
Seed we are designed to drivemore business to you.
But what you do with it once thephone rings or once the chat
goes off or once the form fieldcomes in, we can't help that

(05:13):
part other than just giving youguidance.
But the third thing that youcan do to grow your business is
definitely marketing, and soI'll hurt feelings.
First, most of the people thatI talk to that are coming on
board with Lemon Seed.
They're spending 2% to 3% inmarketing and wondering why
people are just running over thetop of them Like man, where did
this new company come from?

(05:33):
They're just all over the placeand I feel like they're just
come out of nowhere and I'm like, well, odds are they just
really got serious aboutmarketing budget.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Eric, do y'all have a lot of conversations about that
with your contractors?
Oh, yeah, yeah, we often talkabout just budget in general
with contractors because,especially like the ones we've
been working with for a longtime, because it's pretty easy
to like kind of set your youknow your different providers
and partners in place and justkind of hope that they can just
kind of stay there forever.
But as your business grows, thespend needs to grow as well, as
you know.
I guess the investment inmarketing needs to grow and we

(06:14):
hear it all the time where folksare like I've never like this
company just started like sixmonths ago.
They came out of nowhere andit's like well, they're probably
spending more money than you.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean I will shock people.
So, like when my pest controlwhen my sister and I my brother
and I started the pest controlcompany, I was like, okay, we
need 14% in marketing, and so weset a million dollar goal and
we want to do.
Before we sold the first pestcontrol contract, we were like
we're going to spend 14% andthat's not easy to do.
It was very scary, but we'vedone this.

(06:44):
We are no stranger to the gamehere and so we knew if we could
just grin and bear it throughsix months of going hard and
heavy on building a brand,getting a website, doing social
media, getting our yard signsdone, wrapping our vehicles,
getting everybody in a uniform,we were going to be miles ahead
and literally we did our ribboncutting when we finally got a

(07:05):
little, a small little officelocation just to help Google
business profile.
Um, when we did that, um, wehad two of the other companies
in our town show up and one ofthem was like I feel like y'all
blew up overnight and I'm like1000% was not overnight, right,
but it just was.
We, we, we, literally webulldozed the competition just

(07:26):
because we were intentional and,um, we were aggressive out of
the gate, but it is.
It is a little scary.
So you know, honestly, I'llI'll say this, and eric might
have a little slightly differentopinion, but I would tell you
to go get your.
Whatever your revenue goal isgoing to be for next year, so
for 2026, what's your revenuegoal going to be?

(07:48):
What are you hoping to get to?
And then, what are youcurrently spending in marketing?
Odds are it's less than 5%,would you agree, eric?
I think that's pretty normal.
If you want to grow by more than10%, I would encourage you to
try to get closer to 10, if not12%.
And people are going to be likewhat is going on?

(08:09):
Why would you do that?
You're overspending?
And you just look at them andsay okay, and then you blow
right past them in six months.
What do you think about thosenumbers, eric?

Speaker 3 (08:20):
No, I think it's totally true.
I think something that youmentioned is the very common
challenge that folks have withthis is that it's scary.
It's scary to think, okay, I'mgoing to spend 10% of my goal,
not what I did last year, but10% of my goal this year to hit
that goal.

(08:41):
And when you look at it, likewhen you zoom out and look at a
12-month approach, it's like, ohgosh, that's like you know, if
it's 10% of you know $2 million,like that's a lot of money to
spend, like I don't have$200,000 laying around I don't
think anyone does, but it's youknow.
When you divide it and youstart doing the math, you work

(09:01):
it backwards.
You know $2 million is the goal.
I need to spend $200,000 anddivide that by 12.
You got someone who's probablybetter at math than I am.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
We're marketers, not mathematicians.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, I'm sure my calculator on my phone could
tell me.
But you start looking at itfrom a 12-month view and you're
like, okay, that's a little bitmore reasonable.
And then you take that and youbreak down your average ticket
and then suddenly it's like Ionly need 18 jobs to pay for
this.
Yes, like, do you think thatinvesting this into the right

(09:34):
marketing could get you 18 jobs?
Probably, and so I think that'swhere, when you break down the
math for folks, that's when itgets a little bit easier to
digest.
But the problem this is aproblem a lot of contractors
make is that they don't haveanyone guiding their strategy.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
No.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
And so they don't.
So what do they do?
They go on Facebook and theysay what's everyone spending on
marketing?
And then you get the people whosay 3% max.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I've never had to spend more than 5%.
I built my business on shakinghands and listen, I could get
riled up by the end of this Iwill need a drink, but what I'll
tell you is Eric is 100% right.
Facebook really makes me wantto hurt myself and others, but
at the end of the day, people onFacebook are going to give you

(10:21):
their truth and their truth isnot a lot of times your truth.
So they're 100% right that youcan grow your business really
far by being a good person,doing referrals and doing good
work.
You 1000% can grow it that wayand you should.
You should be a good personoffering good businesses or
offering good business.
But what I tell clients isthat's how far you got with no

(10:43):
marketing effort.
Imagine where you would be ifyou would have invested in true
marketing strategy five yearsago, 20 years ago.
Where you would be now.
I can tell you this If you havea strong marketing effort and
good operational excellence,there's zero reason to be in
business more than two or threeyears and be at a million
dollars.
If you're at a million dollarsand you've been in business more

(11:04):
than two or three years, oddsare it's a marketing problem or
an operational problem, but I'mtelling you, at the end of the
day it's some combinationthereof.
I've talked to 30-year-oldcompanies that will tell me I
don't know what I've done wrong.
I've been in business 30 yearsand I'm going to do $2 million.
And I tell them whenMcWilliamsiams, when my family,
when we open a new location,we're doing two million dollars

(11:26):
in 20 months yeah so I'm likethere's, there's got to be,
there's got to be a commonfactor here and again.
I just think so much of it ericis from.
They don't, contractors don'tknow who to trust and they're
very afraid of vendors.
They feel like, especiallydigital vendors.
They feel like y'all aretricking them, you're lying to

(11:47):
them.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
We are.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
It's a big scheme.
I did have a contractoryesterday.
So, like yesterday, in one ofthe Facebook feeds there was a
digital company really gettinghammered.
I mean, they were just comingfor them, right, we've been
paying.
We hadn't been getting it.
And literally I was like I havefive clients with that
particular digital vendor thatare killing the game, growing.

(12:12):
Everything worked out well.
And I'm like man, yes, theymight have done some things
wrong.
So has lemon seed, probably.
So has rival, so has everybody.
But I'm like gosh, it is crazyto the amount of people that
come out of the woodwork to justlike blast a company like name
names.
You should be naming names.
I'm all again, I'm all fortransparency, but I tell clients

(12:34):
all the time.
I work with numerous digitalpartners and I'm like, hey, here
are the ones that have a proventrack record.
You're not going to love everyone of them, they're not all
going to be your style.
So I want to.
For instance, let me introduceyou to Eric and his team over at
rival digital, and they mayinterview with you and be like
we love them, or they might be.
Oh, I really want someone a lotmore aggressive.
Okay, well, eric is notaggressive.

(12:54):
Eric's team's pretty chill andlaid back.
So you know, or they are.
They have no digital presence atall right now, and I'm like
okay, this presence at all rightnow, and I'm like, okay, this
might overwhelm you, right?
So there's a place for allthese digital vendors and we
have some really good ones inour industry, but we also have
some shady pants, things that goon.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh yeah, and the other thing, kind of going back
to that Facebook thread, I sawthat and I was reading it and it
was a mistake that a lot ofcontractors make is is getting
on those groups and taking whatone person said and, by the way,
the person posted itanonymously yep, so they take
one anonymous person's truth andthey make that the truth that

(13:37):
they're going to believe aboutsomeone, and but that you know
there's.
That's only one side of the ofthe story, and you know so.
I think that's a challenge.
One side of the of the story,and you know so.
I think that's a challenge thatpeople make is they'll read
something on Facebook, good orbad, you know.
Sometimes they they read a goodthing and they're just like, oh
well, they got a good reviewfrom this one person, that must
mean that you're the best.
Or they'll say, oh, you got,you had one person upset, you

(13:59):
must suck, yes, instead of justfinding out for themselves,
because someone who might saythat we're good, we might not be
a fit for the next person inline, or someone that said we
suck, maybe that was just a badfit and the next person in line
is a great fit and we would dogreat for them.
So I think there's a lot offolks, I think that Facebook has

(14:20):
made it really challenging forpeople to think for themselves
and they just want to go get theanswers really quickly from
everyone else.
Because, I guarantee you, onthe other side of that post, I
guarantee you, there was clientdelays, there was client
feedback, there was edits, therewas no photos.
I guarantee you, that wasn'tjust the only side of the story,

(14:42):
especially since they posted itanonymously.
I'm not really buying it.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Well, and like Joe's strip matter, he's like I
thought we graduated from highschool, I agree.
I think that's part of my issueis like here's what I think
those groups are really good for.
I think those groups are goodfor just a sense of community,
like does anyone have a thoughtabout this?
What I don't like them for istrue vendor recommendation

(15:08):
because it's so cloudy.
It's just so cloudy.
I wrote down we've alreadylisted two mistakes.
Number one no strategy behindwhat you're doing.
You can have a plan of whoyou're going to use, but you
really need a strategy about howall of it works together.
Strategy meaning all youradvertising tactics need to work
together to further yourcompany.
That's number one.
Number two Facebook being justyour only source of truth, right

(15:31):
, just, it's noisy, that's right.
Riley from LCS and Indies likesuper noisy.
And Riley made another commenton here.
There's a number of 50 year oldcompanies in our market that
don't care to do the work.
I say this a lot of times.
If I am speaking at aconference or any podcast or
whatever I'm doing, I will saythis I could stand on a stage
and tell contractors exactly howto grow their company and they

(15:56):
will walk out of the room and belike I'm not going to do it.
They're just not going to do it, and so I'm not afraid to even
give free advice.
You probably aren't either.
I'll tell you exactly what todo it, and so I'm not afraid to
even give free advice.
You probably aren't either.
Like, I'll tell you exactlywhat to do, but they're not
going to invest the time or themoney or the resources to do
what they need to do.
They think it comes a loteasier than it really does.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And there's, I think, anotherthing, and this kind of aligns
with strategy.
But just every business isdifferent and everyone's goals
are different, and so whatworked for Riley might not work
for Joe, and what worked for youmight not work for me.
And so that's where it's likeit's so hard to get a source of

(16:39):
truth for what's right for yourbusiness, because everyone's
business is different.
The markets are different, theclimate's different, the
weather's different, the fineconsumer behaviors are different
.
Um, your brand is different,your messaging is different, how
you're perceived is different.
Oh, but we're expecting this onefinancing company to be the
silver bullet that both of usneed, or we're expecting this

(17:00):
one marketing company to be thesilver bullet.
There's no silver bullet, andso that's why I can't emphasize
it enough.
For folks these days, whenthey're reaching out, I'm like
don't just talk to us, please gotalk to three or four others,
and if they don't have goals fortheir business, then don't talk
to us at all, because I'm notcoming up with your goals for

(17:21):
you.
I'm not coming up with yourstrategy for you, like for your
overall business, that is, wecan come up with a digital
strategy, but I'm not coming upwith your business goals for you
, like that is not my job, thatis your job as the owner.
Do not delegate that on me.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Listen.
So part of onboarding withLemon Seed is we do this
comprehensive audit.
And so I use this analogy allthe time and see does we do this
comprehensive audit?
And so I use this analogy allthe time.
When you go to the doctor rightto go sit down, you don't just
go into the examination room andthe doctor walk in and be like,
all right, here is yourprescription for diabetes
medicine, right, they have toactually do an examination.
So we say we need to examineeverything that you're currently

(17:58):
doing, the landscape of yourmarket, everything that we can.
So this is what we're going todo.
So I'm like what are your goalsfor next year?
And though, anytime thecontractor goes well.
And I'm like period period sir,like you don't know, ma'am, you
don't know, you don't know yet.
And so then I will get on thecall.
Listen, I'm going to tell you.

(18:18):
I call them young bucks, theseyoung guys that are more
business savvy.
They will get on a call and belike I'm trying to grow by 20%.
Right now, my average installticket is $18,000.
I think I'm bringing in acoaching team.
I'm hoping to get it up to 21.
And I'm like okay, these arethe people that I can ride with
right, because I can handle yourmarketing strategy.
My team can build your strategyall the way from your branding

(18:42):
just overall branding in yourmarket, community involvement,
social media, email marketing,down to your existing customers,
all the way to new customergeneration with the perfect set
of vendors.
But, my Lord, I can't help youif you're just sitting back and
you're not going to hold anybodyaccountable and it's just, it's
wild to me.
The people that don't know theirnumbers, I will say this HVAC

(19:06):
and plumbers are miles ahead ofother industries.
As we started working with afew other industries that just
came to us naturally, likethrough same owner, like open to
garage door or open to roofing,open pest control, whatever
I've learned that thoseindustries are pretty far ahead
of these others.
But like pest control, forexample, my first interview with

(19:27):
a pest control company, which Iknew, all these things my
sister and I had my sisterspecifically, had done all this
research to know expectedexpectations of you know,
average tickets and things likethat.
Well, I got on the phone andthis guy says I don't really
believe in all that big brotherstuff.
So I was like, excuse me, bigbrother is worried about your
average ticket on Roachtreatments.

(19:48):
I don't know that anyone caresas much, but it was a, it was a,
it was just a, a tool that theywere using to deflect from not
knowing what their actualnumbers are and what their
business are.
Business was so.
So I did write down the thirdone.
A third mistake that we thinkpeople make is budget spend, and
, of course, budget spendmeaning based off your goal.

(20:10):
And the other one that we justmentioned is like we can't know
your business goals.
I do think that's dumb.
I'll be honest, like dumb issuch a hard word for me, but
because I tell my kids, don'tcall people dumb, I'm not
calling you dumb, I'm callingwhat you're doing dumb here.
So, guys, if you're listeningto this and you cannot rattle

(20:30):
off to me at least the basicKPIs, what is your revenue goals
?
How close are you to hittingthem?
That's where I tell you to goget a business coach.
You need a business coach.
Live and Seed can do a lot ofthings to mash up the marketing
and the operations to see if wecan help you identify problems.
But like we're not built to goin and identify deep rooted

(20:53):
operational issues.
Which same thing for you, eric.
I know you and I've had aconversation before and we
shared a client one time andboth of us were like we don't
know whether to be depressed forthis client, because what they
did was what they left both meand Eric in this blaze of glory
and went to like this little newthing on the market and both of

(21:13):
us were like this is going tobe disastrous for them.
And then, sure enough, fourmonths later the client's like
hey, can we talk about astrategy?
And I'm like for free.
Like for free, you know.
So but I know you see that goingon a lot, so what's another one
, eric?
Do you have another one thatpopped into your head that you

(21:34):
think contractors are doing tokind of bad mistakes they're
making?

Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, I don't know if this is a common mistake.
This is a mistake that I'veseen happen twice with clients
that we've worked with, and thatis hiring an internal marketing
employee and then turning theminto an overpaid CSR.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (21:59):
It's like so if you're going to hire someone for
marketing, you need to reallythink through it and fill in the
gaps of like or at leastidentify like what.
They're going to hire someonefor marketing, you need to
really think through it and fillin the gaps of like or at least
identify like what they'regoing to do and even see if it
makes sense to have like aninternal person for, like,
community marketing and stufflike that internally to kind of
oversee all your differentpartnerships.
I've seen it twice now wheresomeone has hired a marketing

(22:21):
manager and then three monthsinto it they're answering calls.
I see them dispatching calls onServiceTitan.
I'm like why is she dispatchingcalls on ServiceTitan?
and it blows my mind.
And again I saw a post onFacebook.
I mean gosh, facebook drives menuts.
I've gotten to the point nowwhere I was telling someone this

(22:42):
at Home Service Freedom.
I've gotten to the point nowwith like, with social media and
Facebook and all that stuff,where, if I don't physically see
it with my own two eyes, Idon't believe anything anymore.
Like I don't believe it unlessI actually see it happen or I
hear it said.
Like I just don't physicallysee it with my own two eyes, I
don't believe anything anymore.
I don't believe it unless Iactually see it happen or I hear
it said.
I just don't believe it.
Anyways, just a side rant.
But I saw someone make a post,anonymously, of course, and they

(23:04):
were like I just hired my firstinternal marketing person.
What should their KPIs andmetrics be?
And I was like, oh, this isgoing to be good.
It's like, okay, well, firstoff, what are they doing?
Are they doing your socialmedia?
Are they handling your emails?
Are they handling, you know,terp?
I can't create KPIs for you ifI don't know what the person's

(23:29):
doing.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, so I started as this position for my family's
company so my brother calls mein 2014.
I had gone to I got my degreein marketing from Stephen F
Austin here in Nacogdoches,texas.
Got my degree, went to work forCoca-Cola, our local Coca-Cola
bottling plant.
So I got to work with likeMonster Energy and Dr Pepper and
Big Red and Coca-Cola.

(23:51):
But I also had to work withthings things for those of you
that remember a full throttleenergy Um, I had to work with
NOS energy and uh, vitamin waterin East Texas.
I had to work with some uniquethings that taught me a lot.
So I was always having theseconversations with my brother.
Well, my dad had just boughtinto a marketing company bought,
bought, like signed up with amarketing company and I was

(24:13):
doing all of his content writingat the time.
So this marketing company wouldsay, hey, we need a newsletter,
write all of your content forme.
So to Joe's question here whatrevenue?
We were at $3 million when mybrother called me and said we're
about to hit the gas and I needsomebody to come in and focus
on building our brand,organizing our marketing

(24:33):
strategy like working throughco-op dollars, employee
retention and recruitment andjust overall community
involvement which fell under thebrand.
So I came on to Lemon Seed andnot that I'm the sole person
that drove McWilliams to theplace that it got and is, but it
was the combination ofdedicated and intentional

(24:54):
marketing from all facets and Ididn't get pulled all these
different directions.
So I'm like Riley here Nobodywanted me on the phone.
I would have been good on thephone but, honestly, your
internal marketers they shouldhave, if you do disk profile to
me, they either need to have ahigh I or maybe a C personality.
It just depends on what youneed.

(25:15):
So I have a very high I andnegligible C.
Like C don't even register onthe crystal level there.
But I knew that I could get usout in the community, I could be
creative.
I could do all these things.
I could keep employees andrecruit new ones.
My brother and I created theHome Service Academy where we
were bringing people on greenoff the street and getting them

(25:37):
in their own van in eight weeks.
Through putting the right peoplein the right places and so that
community market, the internalmarketing position, could be run
the gamut right.
So Riley, who's on the callhere, does this for LCS out of
Indy and works with Lemon Seedvery closely.
So what I love about Riley andwhat he does is he has his thumb

(26:00):
on the pulse of LCS Like helives in it every single day.
So when he's communicating withLemon Seed, he brings like the
actuals to the table.
Hey, we want to redo this.
We want to do this.
What do y'all think about this?
And it's a great likecollaborative relationship, but
I have another contractor whohas a CSR that they've delegated

(26:21):
to be in charge of marketing.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
And that's worse than making the marketing manager a
CSR.
In my opinion, that's evenworse.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, setting them up for failure.
So I really ask, I ask thecontractor every single time.
So you're at whatever 3 million, 2 million, whatever that is.
So if you live like me in EastTexas, internal marketers that
are young, like out of schooland just like really good
personalities, very driven, youactually.
They're pretty affordablebecause they're hungry for
marketing roles, right, sothey're not, you know, but they

(26:52):
also are going to be very green.
So you have to give them accessto the vendors and they have to
understand what they're doingand keep everything going.
But internal marketers canreally do a whole paradigm shift
for you in your business,especially if you're looking for
someone that intentionally,every single day, their goal is
brand awareness, employeerecruitment and retention, brand

(27:15):
loyalty, existing customers,answering reviews.
I mean, listen, I can fill awhole day.
When Renee got ready to hireRiley over there at LCS, she and
I had long conversations aboutwhat was she really going to
give up control over?
Like, are you really going togive up control?
Are you going to you know andit was a really good
conversation, but to Eric'spoint here like deciding that

(27:37):
their job doesn't have enoughvalue to where?
Okay, you know what, I needthem to answer the phone.
Nothing wrong with being a CSR.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
But that's not what they were hired to do, and so
you need to let marketers bemarketers if they're designed,
if they're meant to be amarketer.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Yeah, this is a great .
This is a great conversation.
I'm actually curious.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
This is a great conversation.
I'm actually curious.
I guess Riley probably knows,but then I'd also be curious,
crystal, on your take on this.
At what point do you Riley?
So LCS was a little bit abovethis when they brought on Riley,
but I would really, I'm tellingyou $3 million.
So here's, I call them thehumps, if you will.
So that hump to get to amillion, right, like you're
busting your butt to get to amillion.

(28:28):
And then that next hump that Ithink most contractors are
trying to get to is three andthen five and then eight and
then ten.
You know, like that, you know,because you have to do different
things to get over those humps,right.
So that's why I think, whenyou're trying to go from three
million to anything else, it'slike you need intentional
attention on everything and as acontractor.

(28:51):
That's why, let me see, usesthis.
We use two alliterations or twoexamples all the time.
One is how full is your plate?
So, if on, and so Joe was at 5million.
So, as you can see, like it'sin that wheelhouse there.
So if your plate is full ofeverything, so you're trying to
price equipment, you're tryingto deal with benefits, you're
trying to deal with training asan owner.

(29:14):
Marketing is one of thosethings that if you're really
good at it, then you need tooffload something else.
Right, hire a training manager.
But you need to look at yourplate or the hats that you have
on and decide where you actuallyas an owner operator.
Where do you fit correctly andwhere do you want to fit?
Now I have some people thatthink they need to be the
marketing, and I'm like you'rein your own way, um uh.

(29:42):
But to Joe's point you know,between three to 5 million is
probably the sweet spot there,because that's when it takes
intentionality and that's whenyou need to do it Now, mick
Williams, we have a little bitof a different strategy.
Anytime we open a new brick andmortar location within the first
year or so or so oh, he said heshould have done it sooner
within the first year or so ofbeing um open, we're hiring a
community marketer, but theirsole job is again that employee,

(30:06):
the employees at that at thatbrick and mortar that work there
.
We call it loving on them.
Welcome to east texas.
Just, you know, patting them onthe back and doing good things
for them, but also just go intothe community and represent who
we are as a company and as afamily.
And so, like right now there'slike five of them and people are
like five I'm like one perbrick and mortar for the most

(30:26):
part, unless it's really closeto another brick and mortar and
one person can kind of coverboth areas.
But if it has its own chamber,odds are we've got a person.
That's working that, but I loveto talk to this and I'll be
honest, a little sneak peek.
Lemon Seed is launching somecool stuff in January around
internal marketers and so I hopeeverybody's going to kind of

(30:48):
watch for that.
Our conference is going to becoming up at the end of January
and we're going to be releasingsome cool stuff that we're going
to be doing and internalmarketers are really going to
enjoy those.
No, joe, all of our communitymarket, joe ask, are those
part-time employees?
Ours are full-time employees.
But again, this is not anoverly and when I say educated

(31:09):
marketing, specific a bunch ofexperience.
These are, most of the time,just really connected people in
the market that like to shakehands, kiss babies, pet dogs,
and then they follow themarketing strategy that the
marketing director puts out.
So it's more the marketingdirectors handling all branches
for McWilliams and kind ofletting them know what's coming
up.
Our community marketers aretruly for culture and for brand

(31:34):
awareness in the market, forsure.
No, that's a good one, eric.
That was a good question.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
That's a tough one too.
I always wonder, and I feellike everyone has different
answers or different takes onthis, but I definitely tend to
agree.
I think that $3 to $5 millionmark is a good one, because I
see a lot of folks get stuck inthat three to five million mark
and so at some point in thatbecause you can get zero to
three million without aninternal marketer I've seen

(32:03):
people get zero to three withouthiring a marketing agency.
I've seen people get zero tothree just by hustling and
selling.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Are the wages a part of the marketing spend?
So I'm going to tell you, thisis also a very debatable
question.
What did you think about thatquestion, Eric?

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Maybe towards the marketing budget.
Yeah, Because if I put them inoverhead, like if I just if I
didn't put them in there, then Iwould be tempted to like add
them into the phones orsomething else.
If they're a part of mymarketing budget, then I'm going
to make sure that, like youknow, come hell or high water,
they're marketing for thebusiness.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Well, and if they're responsible for that budget and
the performance you know.
So that's why I say this jobneeds to be curated to what
you're hiring them for, right.
So it's very generic for you tosay, oh Crystal, what did you
do?
What I did at McWilliams isprobably even it's even
different than what Riley doesat LCS.
Honestly, it's a littledifferent.
And so for us it was anoverhead position.

(33:01):
But because it I was anoverhead position because mainly
I was dealing with a multitude.
So marketing was my main goal,but also was culture.
So I helped with other thingslike recruitment and retaining
and things like that.
But what was funny is when I gota car, when we bought a car, I
wrapped.
Oh what did I drive A NissanRogue.
We wrapped it and he was like,hey, if we want to get another,

(33:24):
like I want to get a trailerLong story I was always asking
for money.
He was like that's got to comeout of the marketing budget.
So it was interesting how wekind of function that.
But you're hiring someone justfor marketing.
You could definitely go intoyour marketing spend, but again
most of you are going to be like, okay, well, I'm not spending
enough.
Now this whole person takes upall my marketing budget.
Well, that won't work.

(33:45):
That won't work because thisperson is not a traditional lead
gen.
Most of the time they're not anoutbound dialer, right.
They're, you know, organizingall of your vendors.
They're talking throughcreative like they're.
They're doing a lot of things.
So it definitely could be acombination of things, uh, just
depending on what you actuallywrite their job description to
include, and so I always thinkthat's an important, important

(34:09):
thing.
One common thread that I've kindof heard today is you know the
intentionality and thedefinition of things, and so
that's one of our biggest pointshere is context, right.
So I ask a lot of questions.
So, when you see people get onsocial media, this company grew
by 150%, okay, yes, from 300,000.

(34:29):
So they didn't grow 150% whenthey were at 10 million, right.
So you really have to puteverything in context.
So it's not that we don't wantto celebrate the 150 growth.
That is wonderful way to go,keep going.
But at the other side, likepeople are like I'm doing
something wrong, and I'm likeyou're not, you're, you're doing
everything right, you're,you're just your revenue is much

(34:52):
higher and so it's a lot harder.
You, you're talking aboutmillions, they're talking about
$20,000.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
They needed to sell one system, you need to sell a
hundred, you know.
So it's drastically different,but for sure.
So I love the conversationabout the internal marketing
budget getting those spends.
So just a really quick recap alittle bit.
Number one mistake we see nostrategy.
The bunch of vendors doing abunch of things, but no real

(35:18):
strategy.
Facebook being your source oftruth Let us all pray for that
the budget spend being less thanyou know what is needed to hit
your revenue goals.
So I'm coming out of the gatewith recommending an eight to
10% spend and then 12 if you'rereally trying to grow Off your
goal.
Eric made a good point off yourrevenue goal, not what you did
last year, knowing your numbers.

(35:39):
And listen, any of y'all thathave been around this industry
very long or in a part of a bestpractice group, they don't even
let you out.
You are in contractor prisonuntil you start knowing those
KPIs.
So don't be that guy, right,don't be that girl.
Know your KPIs.
And then Eric brought up thisinternal marketer issue overuse
or underutilization of that roleor lack of role, clarity of

(36:02):
what that role is intended to do.
This definitely could be a parttime role.
It's all about the intent andhow you write it and how you
clarify the role Um, but andLemon Seed works alongside um
internal marketers to help makesure they have a trusted source
of collaboration and keepingtheir directions moving forward

(36:23):
and a source of their marketingtruth.
We have no like Lemon Seed.
I've prided myself on this.
Now, listen, I might change mymind at any point, but right now
I have no, no, let me use thisword allegiance, and so that's
partially true, but I am so Iwill normally say these are
three to four good digitalvendors that we work with, that

(36:45):
our clients are seeing successwith, and I try to let the
contractor connect with who theyfeel is the right one for them,
because I might love thiscompany for this type of
contractor, and so Limit Seed isdesigned to help people look up
and look around Like ServiceNation.
I feel like it's a buffet,right, so like here's a buffet

(37:05):
of all these people that dogreat things.
You look over here at Nextarand they're like this is the
Nextar way, praxis, this is thePraxis way, and so there's some
unique things that go on.
Joe did bring up another goodpoint here, and you should have
a higher percentage rate ifyou're greenfielding a new
location.
That's what I mentioned toy'all earlier.
I'm rolling 12% deep when we'reopening a new on a million

(37:25):
dollar budget, and so a lot ofpeople are before I've sold the
first thing.
That's also.
Very people are like well, Ijust need to get some leads in
and then I'll have cash.
The amount of people that starta business with no money also
drives me nuts.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
This could be section mistake 4A, people starting a
business.
And I'm sorry I'll go out hereand say it.
I can start a business in anyindustry tomorrow and I could be
a major problem for mycompetitors.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Oh, I'll say that all the time.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
I could go start a chiropractor's office and I
don't know anything.
I would get a chiropractor andI would be a problem for the
next chiropractor down thestreet.
I could start a pest controlcompany and I'd be a problem
Because the amount of peoplethat start a business and then
they say I'm going to do thisand I'm going to go do this for
me and then they completely justget lazy on it yeah, it drives

(38:21):
me nuts.
Look, there is in my phone,let's go ahead.
Let's look and see this righthere.
I have 8,500.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'vemerged them recently.
I have 2,200 contacts in myphone.
These aren't just random phonenumbers that I've.

(38:42):
Never those 2,200 contacts havegotten into my phone at some
point because someone gave metheir number.
I would blast every single oneof them and just be like hey,
remember me.
We might not have talked in awhile, but I started a new
business and it'd be cool ifyou'd support me at the least
maybe like my Facebook page.
Yeah, I guarantee I could makea million dollars the first year

(39:04):
.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Oh, I'm telling you, my brother and I said this to
someone the other day.
I said, listen, once you learnthe structure of marketing, you
could go get the leads.
Now, learning the operationalbackside of things is different,
right, so like for the pestcontrol company, for example,
we're kind of doing double dutybecause we we bought a company
with a guy that's helping usguide through, like the actual

(39:27):
work of pest control.
But listen, building a brand andgetting leads is not going to
be our issue yeah and I'm youcome out of nowhere but so many
people start just broke and I'mnot hating on that Like there's
a lot of power and coming.
You know, I was at the bottom,now I'm here, kind of vibe, but
it's the long road.
It's the long road to go.

(39:49):
Line of credit or whateveryou're going to do to build an
actual marketing strategy thatis a combination of your brand
and your digital and yoursocials and whatever else you're
going to do yard signs orbillboards or radio, whatever it
is.
um, you will see how quickly youovertake the competition yeah,

(40:12):
and I'm like listen uh, in ourlocal Facebook group the other
day, this company got on thereand they do inflatables,
inflatables, and they list.
They made a post blaming thecommunity for not supporting
them.
And they're like you, um, youguys like we knew this was a
need, but y'all don't support us.
And like, if y'all want us tostay in business, and I was like

(40:32):
do you not want to stay inbusiness, ma'am?
Like this is the first timeyou've made a post on your page
in six months.
The name of your company isBackyard Inflatables.
So I mean, which is the name of?
Like all these other companies?
And they get mad.
They're like y'all only usethis other company because of
who they are.
And I'm like no, go look atyour web presence and your

(40:56):
branding presence.
This company donated 10 bouncyhouses to our um local.
Like balloon, we had a littleballoon festival and so they had
signs everywhere that they haddonated these bouncy houses.
Like you're, you've not takenany opportunity.
It is not the field of dreams.
If you build it, they will notcome only from that.
They will not.
You know, branding has to be apriority.

(41:19):
And if you don't understand it,good news People at Lemon Seed
do, but they don't, eric.
I'm telling you, their hardestthing to do is write the
sentence, write the check for abranding play.
They're like, oh gosh, my leadsjust aren't coming in.
And I'm like, listen, this is along-term strategy.
We have a short-term strategy,but yeah, that.

(41:39):
And then we had a local companythe other day posting like just
the owner and this is an HVACcompany gets on there and he's
like stop using the expensiveguys and use me, I can get this.
And people were commenting like, yeah, thumbs up, thumbs up.
And I'm like this is pleasedon't ever tag me.
How many times have y'all seenthe Facebook post who's a good

(42:02):
digital company?
Who's a good branding company?
And I'm like, lord, help me.
Because they're going to saythat's not going to cost me an
arm and a leg.
Not me, sir, because what thatis screaming to me is that
that's not the clients that youwant as an agent.
You don't want.
You want clients that want toinvest in good products.
Hardly any of you on here selljanky products, but I'm telling

(42:23):
you I will get riled up about,um, the importance of what we
get, what you pay for, but alsojust a good understanding of
building a brand and havingmoney to build that brand up
front and if you have zerodollars, I would be killing the
social media game every singleday.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah, yeah, if I had.
Yeah, I just think some peoplelike I saw I saw that post
yesterday.
I think you replied to mycomment.
The person was talking aboutimposter syndrome, yes, and I
was like the only way out isthrough Get off your ass.
Sorry, I'm getting riled up.
The only way out is through.
You got to get up and just goforce yourself.

(43:02):
Go force yourself to like ituntil it happens.
And it's like, yeah, if I got $0, I am getting up at 8 o'clock
and I'm going to every singlehouse or every single door that
I can find, or I'm texting everysingle person that I know, or
I'm going to go stand out infront of the Walmart with the

(43:23):
Salvation Army ringing the bellat Christmas, but also handing
out my business cards on theside.
I'm going to be doing whateverit takes to get a contact.
And some people just they getimposter syndrome because they
say I'm a business owner, butthen they don't do the steps
necessary, they don't do thebaseline requirements necessary,
so then they feel like, well,I'm a fraud because I'm not
actually running a real business.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
I saw a quote the other day that said your
ambition is not going to workharder for you than your hard
work.
And I was like your want to bethe top company is not enough to
get you to be the top company.
You've got to put in the work.
You've got to put it.
That's why, like I'm tellingyou, when community marketers
come to work at McWilliams, I'mlike now listen, this job is not

(44:03):
for the weak, like we're.
This is we're busy.
We are washing tablecloths, weare making sure trucks are.
Like you're babysitting people,you're turning in deadlines.
Like it is busy in a wholedifferent way because our job is
to be where the people are,because that's how we build
companies.
Right, that's how we build themLiterally.
Another analogy that I like touse is this cake analogy.

(44:25):
And so, like my husband makesthis delicious seven up cake and
it's so good and everyone lovesit, um, but if you were to ask
me for a piece of that cake, I'mnot going to hand you the cake
flour that he uses.
I'm not going to be like hereyou go, here's a cup of cake
flour.
It takes the flour and the eggsand the butter and the vanilla
flavoring and the lime zest andall the cool things that he uses

(44:47):
cooked together at perfectionto come out with a solid.
Then I can put all the icingand everything I want to put on
top of it and make it beautifuleven more.
But at the end of the day it'sthe same way when we're building
a foundational company is wehave to make people know who we
are.
Then we can add on all kinds ofcool stuff, start doing direct
mail and all those things, butat the end of the day, do people

(45:09):
even know who you are or whatyou stand for?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
yeah, and like and within making that cake wouldn't
?
I don't think anyone would everexpect to think well, I don't
need the eggs right now, I canadd the eggs later, so I'll
withhold the eggs for now.
I'll just do the lemon.
It's not going to come out.
The same, right, right, it'sthe same way when people reach
out Well, I want a new website,but I don't need this.

(45:36):
I don't need seo I don't, yeah,I don't need seo right now and I
want to um like.
So they'll just they'll starttelling this like I need this or
I don't.
I do need this, I don't needthat, I do need this.
It's like hey, do you want thisseven up cake or do you want
something different?
Because if you want my seven upcake, you're getting the eggs.
I'm putting the eggs in in thebutter and all the different
things inside of it to make surethat you get this cake.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Yeah, and that's so funny.
I was talking to this clientthe other day and we were
getting ready to rebrand them.
So you know, we have all thesebrands that we're doing right
now.
Our branding side of ourbusiness has really taken off
and we were looking through somestuff and I was like, okay,
this is what we do next.
And he's like, well, I thinkI'm just going to hold onto it
for a little bit and then I'lllaunch it, like maybe in January

(46:19):
.
So I was like okay.
So I was like so, just so youknow, what we are going to do
between now and January is we'regoing to continue to build a
brand that you're about to getrid of, um, so we're going to
spend a lot of money, like weneed to be changed, we need to
change all the graphics insideof service titan.
We need to do all these things,but you want to wait till
january, and not even for a goodreason, like not for a reason

(46:41):
that was, in my world, valid,like there was just, and I'm
like you're, you're getting offcourse here, um, or they only.
This is the crazy things.
I want a new brand, but I don'twant to really wrap all my
vehicles.
I'm going to wrap one vehicleso I'm like, okay, and you're
going to drive around with thisjanky logo for a while and not
these, the new ones, right?
So that's another one.

(47:02):
So I wrote down uh, the seventhmistake that we see people
making is that imposter syndromeholding you back but also like
not trusting.
I call it the magic sauce.
Yeah, your contractors like,are your vendors contractors?
Not trusting the vendors?
Secret sauce to what makestheir product good?
They want to pick and choosewhat they want.

(47:22):
So not trusting the secretsauce?
Cause, listen, you have I meanrival has a a secret sauce.
What they do specifically thathelps their clients, and you
might go to the next one, andthere's secret sauce is
different.
I'm going to ask one morequestion, uh, before we get off,
because it's a very hot topic.
I'm actually doing a webinar ina couple of weeks about this.

(47:43):
Um, I want to just mention,because I can't help it, ai, and
what do we feel like we shouldbe doing as contractors right
now?
I love ai this, is so me and youcan both get canceled somehow
ai was such a good basketballplayer.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Uh, it was truly a shame that ai's career okay.
Oh, we're not talking aboutalan iverson, okay that would be
an easier topic.
Yeah, ai was a great basketballplayer, though you know, when I
was a kid, ai, we were talkingabout Allen Iverson, and now
it's everything else.

(48:26):
I hope that someone watchingjust appreciated that joke.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Because I've been holding on to that one for a
while.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
I'll make sure to highlight it.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
I think that AI should multiply efforts, not
replace them.
And I think that a lot of peopleare trying to force a square
peg into a round hole with AI,where they're like what can we
do?
What can we do?
What can we do?
And they're trying to force itto replace things, rather than
using it to just multiply whatthey're already doing and make

(49:00):
them more efficient.
And so when folks say, how canI be using AI, the answer is
usually I don't know, becausethere's probably different areas
of your business that you couldbe using it for that you're not
, but I think using it forphones, as long as there's some
type of voice greeting that letsthem know they're talking to AI

(49:22):
.
I think that makes a lot ofsense for a lot of people,
especially after hours.
I think that that alone, thatsmall thing right there, opens
up so much opportunity forcontractors to have some type of
after hours voice assistant foranswering the phones.
Now you can answer the phones24-7 on LSA.
Now you can answer them 24-7 onGBP, because we know that the

(49:47):
map pack is not going to showyou if your hours are closed.
I mean they might, but it'svery unlikely.
So that alone could be like agreat first step for folks.
But I think you know, findingthe things where you're not
efficient and then complementingit with AI, but continuing to
use your human brain for stuffis what I would recommend for

(50:13):
most folks.
It's just, it's tough becauseit's different for everyone.
Yes, yes, I agree.
So this is what I wouldrecommend for most folks.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
It's just, it's tough because it's different for
everyone.
Yes, yes, I agree.
So this is what I've learned.
And listen, I love maybe I'mthe odd man out, but I love the
conversation that's going onwith AI right now, because I
think it just makes everybody atleast think through it.
So kudos to those who havebought in and are going excuse
my language are like balls tothe wall right.
So kudos to those people thatare like running with it, and

(50:38):
then kudos to the people that Ilove this statement, like I
wrote it down, like multiplyingour efforts, not replacing our
efforts.
So I actually really enjoyedthe friendly banter Now people
get super hateful, but thefriendly banter of listen.
At the end of the day, do Ithink AI is coming?
Oh, it's here.
It's not coming, it's here.
The end of the day, do I thinkAI is coming?
Oh, it's here.
It's not coming.
It's here, and I do think thatwe will have to adapt, probably

(51:00):
sooner than later, of utilizingit better.
But I also think that sometimesit's a little scary and
overwhelming to the averageperson, and so sometimes you can
go, you can slide too hard andget detrimental.
Then people are just going toshut down anyway.
A couple of things that I wrotedown love the phones, things but
those of you that are justtrying to figure out how to use

(51:21):
it in your business.
There is a difference inartificial intelligence and
automations.
Okay, automations, like youknow that the uh, making sure
that things are happeningwithout a human having to
trigger things that's automation, that's necessarily AI, and so
that's a unique thing.
Or partnering AI withautomations is like super cool

(51:43):
too.
But to your points like quickspeed to lead style things like
knowing that you'reautomatically going to send a
text or you're going to answerall these leads, you're going to
respond to reviews there's somecool things out there right now
that, honestly, are so tasky,it's my word.
They literally are taking thosethings off of your plate so
that you can do more impactfulthings for your business.

(52:04):
That's where I love AI.
For those of you that arecontent creators like even
creating slideshows, helping youwith social media content,
helping you with email contentthose are great, but I don't
know about you, eric.
I can identify a chat GPT.
Written email is crazy.
Joe just mentioned on hereordering equipment when it's
sold, taking away tasks.

(52:25):
So, again, these are the moreadvanced you get with the
automations and the AI side ofthis happens, then I want this
to happen like this.
That's where you can startgetting behind people that are
doing task driven automations,about definitely moving the

(52:46):
needle off of task driven things.
That maybe opens up time for aninstall coordinator or a CSR or
a dispatcher.
And then I was.
Chuck just came on here andsaid what's your thoughts about
getting prices online likecontractor commerce?

Speaker 3 (52:59):
Love it.
I think everyone should bedoing it.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
I do too.
So, chuck, I'm going to giveyou this thought that I have
about this.
So, right now, again, if youdon't, if you're not this type
of adopter, this may notresonate with you.
But one of the things I justread and, eric, maybe he can
correct me, but I saw wherepeople were saying when people
say, what's the average cost ofan HVAC, of a new heating and
air conditioning systems in EastTexas, right, if you have

(53:24):
pricing on your website?
Now, from what I read, youactually have pricing.
It's showing that you canactually answer the question.
So Google's actually utilizingjust you having those, even
those basic prices on your siteas being able to answer the
question.
So it's reading well orcrawling well.
But the biggest mistakes that Isee people making is they launch

(53:46):
Contractor Commercespecifically.
Fantastic company, lisa and herteam over there with Paul,
wonderful people at ContractorCommerce but people just launch
it and then they never doanything with it.
Yeah, so they never drive likethey don't use it on social
media like click here thinkingabout getting a new system,
click here to see what yourpricing is, or using it to sell

(54:07):
filters or memberships oranything like that.
Um, and like stephanie postelover at anchor.
They did some cool stuff withcontractor commerce on like some
actual coupon-style stuff.
So what are your thoughts onthat, from a digital perspective
, for sure?

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Well, yeah, I think that a lot of folks need to
realize that Contractor Commerceand any of these other ones in
and of itself does not driveleads to your business.
You still have to drive thelead to the website, but if you
have that pricing transparencyonline and your marketing and
your messaging, it just removesthe barrier.

(54:44):
And so to Joe's point earlierabout taking away a task from
someone else.
Think about if the person goesonline to get the price and then
they book the call.
There's no price objection.
At that point they already knowwhat they're getting themselves
into from a pricing perspective.
So it makes the lead.

(55:05):
Maybe the leads that you getthrough a tool like that are
less, but the qualification andthe quality of those leads are
much higher.
Yeah, and you know I wasthinking back.
I was actually thinking aboutthis on the flight home from
Home Service Freedom earlier ortowards the end of last week on
Friday.

(55:26):
I remember in 2019, when thethought of online scheduling was
just the craziest thought inthe world.
I remember I met ScheduleEngine in 2020 and I was like
this is brilliant.
And then I was like talking toclients about it and our clients
were like no, I would neverwant someone to be able to book
their own service online, andthere was so much pushback.

(55:49):
But now that conversation isnot happening anymore.
It's just like, if you're, if Ihave a website, I need an
online scheduler.
Like it's just, it's a, it's apart.
It's like almost eating, likehaving a contact form, it's like
you got to have a scheduler.
But but four or five years agoit was the most polarizing topic
in the trades was like do Ihave a scheduler or do I don't?

(56:11):
And I feel like we're facingthat same thing right now with
pricing, with online pricing.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Yes, yes, and I'll be honest, like you know, you sit
back and now you think, whywould we not adapt ourselves to
be able to allow onlinescheduling?
I still deal with contractorswho are like online scheduling,
like well, what do I do?
And I'm like you freaking, runthe call.
You run the call, you let thembook and then you go figure out.
Your job is to figure out howyou can service that client.

(56:36):
You are not doing people afavor by servicing their air
conditioner.
You need to switch your brain.
You are thankful for every leadthat comes through.
Book the lead, book it and thenfigure it out.
And then Joe brings up a goodpoint about online pricing.
So, eric, I love this idea.
Like this should not be as hardas it is for contractors to.

(56:58):
They're just giving so muchnoise, like to Chuck's point,
there's so much noise out there.
There's ways to protectyourselves on there by saying,
like so in East Texas, right?
So we're trying to get up in anattic, so what if it's difficult
to access, right?
So what do we do?
The client doesn't know.
What if they undersize theirhome?
What if they need duct work?
What if they need?
Okay, then you put on there thecaveat upon inspection, you
know, upon verification, right,and then listen.

(57:20):
Worst case scenario is you sella system online and then again
you go figure it out by saying,hey, now that we've looked, you
see how we can't get an indoorunit up these stairs into your
attic.
I'm going to have to cut a holeor I'm going to have to do this
.
Did you know that you can alsoroll this new ductwork into your
financing, right?
So this is opportunities.

(57:41):
We're looking for opportunities, and so anything that is
reaching, in my opinion,anything that is reaching
different audiences for you.
So online scheduling, onlinebuying things like that, I would
be all over, and then I'llfigure it out on the back, yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Yeah, and I always say consumer ignorance causes
commoditization.
So if they don't find thepricing from you, they're going
to find the pricing from Angie'sList or HomeAdvisor.
Or worse, they're going to gofind the pricing from Angie's
List or HomeAdvisor.
Or worse, they're going to gofind the pricing on Walmart or
Home Depot.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Amazon.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
They're going to go say well, why is it $3,500 for
this 40-gallon water heater?
I can get it at Home Depot for$600.
Angie's List told me theaverage HVAC replacement is
$6,500.
Why are you $18,500?
If you're not educating thepeople, then that GPT is going

(58:41):
to educate them based onwhatever they can find.
Send with Google.
They're going to educate thembased on what they can find and
I don't think anyone's going tolike the result of that.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Yeah, no, no.
I put up Gail's comment here onthe screen.
You add a disclaimer that it'san estimate only based on
information provided and must beconfirmed on site.
And then you book the selling,tech or comfort advisor to go
out there.
Like again, this is number onefor online selling.
We have to tell people right,because the action of actually
having it on your website doesnot really.

(59:11):
It is what's the word I want touse here, eric.
It is good for people searchingthose things.
You want to have it on yourwebsite, but as far as driving
people to your site, you have totalk about it somewhere and
drive people you know to thatsection.
Social media is the easiestthing to use and link it.
They're doing some unique likesolve a problem for the

(59:32):
homeowner and say, hey, if youwant to know, click here.
Um, without being overly salesy, but you know Gil, I know Gil
and she does a great job at whatshe does because she's managing
multiple locations and multiple.
You know different markets andthings like that.
But at the end of the day, likethere are some things that
would work in any market.

(59:53):
You just have to have the rightstrategy and implementation
plan around that.
So love the online pricing.
Love it, just work through itand work through it.
Utilize your vendor partner toreally help you there.
So Joe said to Eric's pointthat's why we have to adopt AI
in our business.
We have to try to be moreaffordable.
I do think that pricing isgoing to become more and more of

(01:00:13):
a deciding factor because,honestly and I just think that
there are more contractorspicking up on how to used to.
So, back in 2014, we were oneof the only people with wrapped
vans.
We were one of the only peoplewith a optimized website, one of
the only people with onlinebooking.
Well, now, as that becomes thenorm, you have to pivot in other
ways, and so now, maybe AIbeing quicker or whatever that

(01:00:37):
looks like for you.
So we ended up with nine things.
Number one no strategy.
Number two Facebook is yoursource of truth.
Number three budget spend notenough most of you.
Number four knowing your KPIs.
Number five internal marketers.
How you overuse or underutilizethem in the right roles.
Role clarity for them.

(01:00:59):
Starting a business and nothaving the cash, or trying to go
to the next level and notfiguring out how to pay for it?
Imposter syndrome holding youback from actually growing your
business, because you're justthe only way to get over it is
to go through it.
I think that's your comment,right, eric?
Yeah, right.
And then not trusting thesecret sauce of your vendors and

(01:01:19):
trying to pick and choose whatyou use with them.
And then AI like multiply yourefforts not really replace
something potentially, but atleast I think we need to start
paying attention to what's goingon and utilizing it for things
to help us become more efficientand, in turn, that gives us
more opportunities to affect ourgross margins and how we're

(01:01:40):
going to market.
So, guys, eric, one more time.
If people wanted to get incontact with you, eric, what's
the best way to reach out to youat Rival Digital?

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Yeah, I can connect with you here on Facebook.
Just Eric Thomas, on Facebookor rivaldigitalcom.
Either way is cool.
I hang out on Facebook orrivaldigitalcom, you know,
either way is cool.
I hang out on Facebook,probably more than I should.
So I feel like it's like itstays up on like this side, like
laptop over here.
So if you message me at anypoint in the day, there's a good

(01:02:09):
chance I'm going to message youback.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Gotcha, gotcha.
And then, of course, limit SeedMarketing.
We can help you build a brand.
We can help you build socialmedia plans.
We can help you build astrategy.
Strategies are one of ourfavorite things to do is how do
we help you bring all of yourmarketing budget together to
really drive the company forward?
So thanks to all of you thatjoined us.
Eric and I loved being able tohave a reason to get on the call

(01:02:32):
and talk today, so we hopeeveryone has a good day.
Thanks for sipping lemonadewith us in R.