"Addiction, Prison and a Prayer: The Day Everything Changed" ft. Salvador Torres

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I get to the point that I was sobad, so hopeless that I would go

(00:09):
in front of the mirror.
I would hold my breath until myjugular vein popped out, and I
would pump my jugular veinfilled with heroin.
That's how bad the addiction gotbecause I didn't care if I died,
right?
I, I didn't care if I OD'ed offthe drugs.
It.
Honestly, if I OD'ed, it'd putme outta my misery, right?

(00:32):
And so that's how bad it got forme.
The reason I started shooting inthe neck was because I remember
the woman, I remember her doingit shooting up in her neck, and
then I remember she just likestarts convulsing, like kills
over and she starts convulsingit.
And I remember thinking tomyself.
She's gonna die, she's gonna ODon.

(00:53):
I was so far gone in thecriminal lifestyle that like I
wasn't even worried about herhealth or her life.
Like the only thing I wasworried about was that I was on
parole and that I was gonna bein the presence of somebody who
possibly OD'ed.
Right?
So I'm like shaking her, like totry to snap out of it.
And I grabbed like some waterand I poured it on her and then
she finally snaps out of it.

(01:14):
And I look at her and I'm like,are you okay?
And she's like.
That was effing great.
Those were her words.
She was like, that's, that waseffing great.
And I remember looking at herand I remember thinking like, I
wanna get that high, you know?

(01:46):
From the city of Chicago, a citymost recently known for its
crime and violence from thispodcast.
We will be sharing stories ofredemption from individuals
raised in the tough streets ofChicago and from around the
country.
Some of them were gang members,drug dealers, incarcerated
victims, and perpetrators ofviolence.

(02:07):
Listen to my guests as theyshare their experiences,
struggles, trauma, but also thestrength, hope, faith, and
perseverance these havedeveloped in them to keep
pushing and moving forward inlife.
Tune in to hear how their liveshave gone, from darkness to
light, and from wrong to strong.

(02:31):
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode From Wrong to
Strong podcast.
Uh, been off, took two monthsoff, uh, all of July and then
going into August, uh, actuallyJune, from June to all of July,
you know, to early August.
Took two months off.
Uh, basically spending time withthe, with the wife, the kids,

(02:51):
but at, at the same time justpraying, planning, reorganizing.
Uh, during these two months, uh,I, uh, we launch a, a website,
so I just wanted to share thatif you guys haven't checked it
out from wrong to strong, do ORgo under, you know, we got all
our, our social media linksunder.
And if you go on there, if youleave us a review, a comment,

(03:13):
send us an email, I will, what Iwanna start doing is getting
feedback of how this podcast hasbeen maybe helping you, uh,
giving you hope.
You know, maybe there's atestimony that's spoken to you.
You know, leave us a comment,send us an email.
What I wanna do is I'll postyour comments on the website.
So I wanna start putting, like,the feedback on there just to
share.
Uh, so I wanna thank all thelisteners, those that have been

(03:36):
supporting us, you know, we'retwo and a half years, uh, going
in this.
And we're just continue to grow.
There's some, some plans in thework of what we're gonna do with
this as to officially turning itinto a ministry, but that's all,
like, behind the scenes rightnow is not official, but once it
gets official, I wanna announcethat.
Uh, but, uh, man, that the, theheart of this podcast is
basically is ministry.

(03:56):
Uh, what we want do, uh, on thisplatform is share testimonial.
Of, of redemption and pointpeople to Christ through the
stories that are being shared onhere.
Uh, so, so tonight I got myguest, his name is Salvador
Torres.
I met this brother, had to bemaybe a month and a half ago.
Uh, we were at a new lifecenter.
They put together what theycall, I believe it was like an
entrepreneurship program,correct?

(04:19):
Like a.
So we went there.
You know, I went there just toget some information.
I met this brother there.
I met a few brothers out there.
You know, we exchangedinformation.
He shared a little bit of histestimony over there.
But welcome to the podcast,brother.
Hey brother.
Thank you for having me.
It's an honor to be here.
I love the work that you'redoing.

(04:39):
Heard about this broadcastbefore, actually know a couple
brothers who have done it.
You know, so it was just, it wasby the grace of God that we met
at that, uh, at that, uh,entrepreneur program.
You know, God put us togetherand so, so here we are.
Amen.
Amen.
It was more than business, man.
It was a kingdom business thatwe wouldn't kingdom the best

(04:59):
business.
That's right, man.
That's right.
The best business.
I think as a Christian, allbusiness should be kingdom
business, right?
That's right.
That's right.
Amen.
Everything.
That's what we're called to do,brother.
That's what we are called to do.
You, you know what you, youbring up something good.
You know, a lot of people thinkthere's like a distinction.
Between like the sacred in asense, you know, quote unquote
the sacred and the, and the, uh,secular work.

(05:21):
But nah, God's everywhere.
You know?
Like you, you could be workingfor God and be working a regular
job.
A lot of people think, man, I'm,I'm gonna leave my job.
I'm gonna go full time, youknow, to pastoral or this and
that.
Mm-hmm.
But man, you, you could beserving God in whatever role it
is in the office.
And, uh.
You know, in the shop and be,man, be serving the, serving the
king, right?

(05:41):
100%.
100%.
I say it all the time.
Your faith is not private.
Your faith is never private.
It's always public, right?
It should always be on display.
Because you're a Christian, thenyou're centered in God's truth.
When you're centered in God'struth, it affects every area of
your life, every area of yourlife.

(06:02):
That's why, uh, Galatians two 20says, I have been crucified with
Christ.
It is no longer I who live, butChrist who lives in me and the
life I now live.
I live for Christ who loves meand died for me.
Amen.
And so that means now you're onmission.
It's funny'cause we were doingbible study yesterday, uh, at a
barbershop of all places.
That's, we'll get into thatlater.

(06:24):
Amen.
Hopefully.
Um, but I was telling the guysthat, and I said, look, you
know, the way you look at theworld is through a Christian
lens.
Now that you're a Christian,everything that you look at in
the world is affected by yourChristian worldview, right?
Because that's what guides us.
The gospel guides us.
Truth guides us.
Some of us took the long road toChrist, right?

(06:46):
And so coming to Christ later inlife, it's like, uh, you have
to.
Learn everything all over again.
You have to leave everything.
The streets taught you,everything the guys taught you
prison taught you even your ownfamily, right?
If you come from a family with,you know, a broken home and
whatnot, you know, and when youcome to Christ, it's like it's

(07:08):
learned behavior.
Paul talks about that.
I believe it's at the end ofPhilippians, right?
He tells them, um, to imitate.
What he's done and the way heacted.
Right.
Because you have to, you have tolearn how to put on the
righteousness of Christ.
Amen.
I, I, I I think that's wherePaul says, follow me as I follow
him.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That's, I if it's, I dunno ifit's in that book or not, but I

(07:30):
love that scripture, man.
So basically.
If I were to follow you, whowould you lead me to?
You know, that's a question thatyou, you guys should be asking
yourself 100 as believers.
You know, if people were tobegin to follow you, would you
be leading them to Christ?
Or something to think about.
But, uh, you know what?
We're gonna get there,obviously.
That's what, yeah, we'realready, we're back deep.
We're already at the end, man.
We even did introductions.

(07:52):
Hey, speaking of introductions,man, let's, let's go to the
beginning, man.
Usually I like to start in thebeginning.
Basically to the childhood.
Uh, so can you tell us, youknow, where, where, where did
you grow up, what city, whatneighborhood, and, and could you
describe that?
Like your early years for peoplethat maybe, uh, n never been
there?
Yeah.
Yeah, 100%.
You know, first of all, my nameis Salvador.
I am an evangelist to Christ theKing founder, and CEO of Vero

(08:17):
Virtue Fitness, and also knownon social media as the fit
Christian Dad.
I had to throw that in there.
Oh yeah.
You're gonna have to do some,uh, pushups or something that I
feel like I should have.
I feel like I should have gotright here and did a couple
pushups.
Or at least flexed a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Maybe at the end when it's allsaid and done, man, just to make
sure, close it out.
Yeah, we'll close it out thatway.

(08:38):
Make sure you're practicing whatyou're preaching, you know, now.
But go ahead, brother Yoki, tellus about those early years, like
growing up and what, what areadid you grow up?
Yeah, 100%.
Born and raised here in Chicago,south side of Chicago.
You know, always.
White Sox fan.
Oh man.
It is funny'cause I always sayeven last year when you know
the, the Sox didn't place thebest last year.

(09:00):
Right.
I don't wanna say where theyplaced or what their record was.
Let's just say they didn't placethe best, right?
And so what I tell people, Isaid, Hey, there's two things
I'm not ashamed of.
Romans one 16 says, I am notashamed of the gospel for it is
the power of God onto salvation.
I'm not ashamed of that, and I'mnot ashamed to wear my white
socks hat no matter how bad theywere last year.

(09:22):
You know what's crazy?
I, I was talking to, I, I, man,hey, I gotta throw it out there.
Hardcore Cubs fan.
Oh, been a Cubs fan my wholelife, but, but check this out,
right?
So I, I got saved, uh, October26th, 2004.
That's the day that man, hetouched me talking about 2004.
2004, okay.
October 26th, 2004, right?

(09:43):
So I was talking to my coworker,he's a hardcore socks fan today,
right?
And I told him, man, you knowwhat's crazy?
On October 26th.
2005 on my one year anniversary,the White Sox won the World
Series.
That was a good day.
And, and, and, and, and I wasthinking like, man, when I was
talking to God, a guy, man, let,man, let, let a World Series

(10:03):
come to Chicago.
And he, he granted my prayer,but you know what it was, I
forgot.
There was another team inChicago, man.
So just the wrong side.
So I told him like, man, come onman.
It was supposed to be the cuss,but 11 years later we got one
too.
So, but uh, yeah, you did.
But anyways, back.
Going back.
Okay.
South side, uh, you growing up,how, how, how, how was life for
you like growing up?

(10:24):
Uh, a mom and dad in thepicture, brother sisters.
Yeah.
So we grew up, I got twobrothers, one older, uh, one
younger.
I was the middle child.
Did they say the middle child'sthe deprived child?
Right.
Because the oldest always getseverything first.
Then the young one's the baby.
So the middle child kind of justgets lost in the middle there.
Right.
Uh, but yeah, grew up, we wasborn in back of the yards

(10:46):
neighborhood there.
Uh, until I was about five, sixyears old.
Then we moved over to Gage Park.
Gage Park area, predominantlyHispanic, uh, community there.
Um, so spent my, my.
Teenage years growing up there.
You know, I say, I always say Iwas, as a kid, I always say I
was, I was a big nerd that Satanled astray, but the Lord brought

(11:08):
me back.
Hmm.
Right?
Like while most kids was, wasout, you know, playing and
stuff.
I was, I was overweight, I waskind of sickly.
I always had a runny nose going,you know, I always had.
Bro, bronchitis issues, youknow, so I just, I love to read,
bro, you know, ever since alittle kid I had like this awe
and wonder about the world,right?

(11:28):
The Bible talks about, uh,looking up at the skies and
seeing the hand of God, right?
And so, like, I just had thiscuriosity about the world.
And so like, I wasn't good atsports, so I spent a lot of time
just reading, bro, readingbooks.
You know, whatever I could getmy hands on, right?
I was, I was, I was the kid.
You remember Walden books?
I dunno if you, you're about myage.

(11:49):
Remember Walden books?
Walden books was the store thatthey used to have in, in the
mall, right?
And so when we would go to themall, uh uh, normal kids go to
the toy store, right?
That's where normal kids, theywould go to KB Toy store or
something, not me.
You'd find me at the bookstore,bro, because I just wanted love
to read.
And I loved it.

(12:09):
My mom would buy me books and,you know, I would go home and I
would read'em and my mom wouldbe like, man, you better not be
reading that whole book'causeI'm not going to buy you another
one idea until next week.
Right.
Idea.
You know?
And just because I was just, youknow, I, I wanted to know more.
I had I that oh, and wonderabout the world, but.
You know, little by littleliving in the south side of

(12:30):
Chicago kind of chipped away atthat, right?
Seeing, you know, gang violencein the street, you know, seeing
murder, chaos, mayhem, you know,and so like that awe and
curiosity, kind of like slowly.
Started to, to dwindle, if thatmakes sense.
Yeah, yeah.

(12:51):
Like, okay.
So in, in those younger years,it, it did, did you get that
from anybody like that reading?
Anybody in your family, mom, dadthat loved to read as well, or
that just came from you?
Like, I think it was my brother.
My, I just, I remember mybrother could draw bro.
Like, he was just great atdrawing and I couldn't draw.
Worth a lick, bro.
Like I couldn't draw.
Stick figure.

(13:11):
Not like I had that talent.
Like God did not give me thatbro.
You know?
He didn't gimme that.
So I guess I, I couldn't draw.
I wasn't creative.
I was sick and overweight.
You know, and so like, Icouldn't play sports really too
much.
So I, I think like I just, Ijust gravitated towards the
books, you know?
I think that's just how I endedup there.

(13:32):
But, you know, the curiosity andthe wonder and the storytelling.
You know, I, I, I always saythere's a, there's a verse in
Ecclesiastes chapter three.
Um, it says, uh, he has seteternity in our hearts.
Speaking of God has placedeternity in our hearts.
And so there's an.
Awe and a wonder about God.

(13:52):
And so, um, I always tell peopleeveryone's searching for God,
right?
Even when you was in sin, youwere searching for God.
You were just looking for him inthe wrong places, right?
And, uh, I think it's, uh,Augustine, Saint Augustine says,
say, uh, that our hearts arerestless until we get back our

(14:13):
relationship with God.
Right.
So you're, you're alwayssearching for God, right?
It's funny, it brings me to ajoke right from the movie
Forrest Gump.
You ever seen Forrest Gump?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I love it.
Uh, uh, there's a part inForrest Gump where Lieutenant
Dan tells Forrest Gump.
He says, he says, Hey, Forrest,have you found Jesus yet?
Forrest Gump goes, I didn't knowI was supposed to be looking for

(14:35):
him, sir.
That was my Forrest Gumpimpression right there, not that
good.
But the point there is thatwe're all looking for Jesus,
right?
We're all looking for him in oneway or another, and when we find
him, we know we've found whatwe're looking for in a sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, definitely, man.
Okay, so that's your youngeryears, let's say like teenage

(14:57):
years.
What does anything begin tochange during those years?
Yeah.
You know, so when I hit, I saywhen I, when I got to high
school, you know, kind ofeverything kind of took a shift
for the worst, I would say.
I was, uh, I lost four friendsthat year, my freshman year to
gun violence from the streets,you know, and so that, that took

(15:20):
a big toll on me, you know,losing four friends my freshman
year, uh, to gun violence, youknow.
Um, and so like.
I slowly began to find myselfgravitating towards the street
life, and you know, I always sayin, in the hood.
Like, we didn't have rolemodels, you know, like, we, like

(15:43):
who did, who do we look up to asa Hispanic community?
Like actors or, or athletes,right?
But we never had like, likebusiness owners or ceo, at least
back then, you know, nowthere's, you know, things are
changing.
We're picking up morerecognition, uh, making a bigger
impact on society as Latinos asa whole.

(16:04):
Praise God for that.
Um, but.
Not to get sidetracked too much,but let me just say this, right?
So I, when, when we preach, andwe haven't even gotten into the
whole evangelism ministry yet,you know, but when, when we, I
do street preaching, uh, andwhen I go preach, I, I wear a
shirt and a tie, right?
And people are always like, ohman, why do you wear the shirt

(16:27):
and tie?
I am like, well, because I wannalook professional, because I'm
preaching the word of God,right?
That's important to me.
Right.
And second of all is because asa kid in the hood, I never saw
any adult going to work wearinga suit and tie.
You know, it was always like thework uniform, you know,

(16:49):
construction workers, whatevertrade, you know.
But I, in the hood, I, I neversaw anybody going to work in a
suit and tie, carrying abriefcase or none of that.
You, you're in line, man.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so for me it's like, hey,you know, there's, there's,
there's, there's more places forus, you know, to, to advance

(17:10):
ourselves, you know, and, and,and, and preach in the gospel
is, is, is, is kingdom businesslike we talked about.
Right?
Right.
And so when I preach, I, I wannago out and I, I wanna look
professional, uh, when I do it.
Amen.
Amen.
Yeah.
Let's go back to before you,you, you wanted to preach.
Yeah.
So, okay.
Teenage years, you see the gunviolence.

(17:30):
Yeah.
Now, does that, does that leadyou maybe to want to be more out
there in the streets or what,what, what, what happens after
that?
Yeah.
That, you know, my, my, the, myhome life wasn't the greatest,
you know, coming from like, uh,Latino background, you know,
where.
Heavy drinkers and you know,that runs deep.
It's deep in my family andwhatnot, you know, so little by

(17:52):
little I found myself kind ofgravitating towards the streets.
And then, okay, so now I go,going back to the point I was
making now, I remember why I wasmaking that point, right?
Uh, because of the fact that asa kid, as, as a freshman in high
school.
Who had the girls, right?

(18:13):
This just, there was just, youknow, I, I was attracted to, to
girls, right?
Like I thing young, adolescent,teen, you know, and, you know, I
was kind of sickly and kind of,you know, overweight, you know,
I needed some credibility,right?
And so I started to hangingaround with, you know, the guys
that were involved with gangsand stuff and, you know, uh.

(18:36):
Finding myself being sexuallyimmoral at a young age, really
kind, was just like, just nailedit for me, you know?
And I, and so like I rememberbeing in school one day.
And, uh, there was like arecruiter there for, for the Air
Force, right?
And so I remember because I toldyou I had this awe and wonder

(18:59):
about the world, and, you know,I, I wanted to travel the world,
see the world.
I was big into like science andastronomy, you know, a lot of
the stuff I read was aboutastronomy.
So I see this Air Forcerecruiter and I'm like, let me
go up to that.
Hey, he's like.
He's like, Hey, you wanna jointhe Air Force on?
And I'm like, yeah, I wanna bean astronaut, you know?

(19:22):
And here I am a freshman.
Hopes, dreams, you know?
And he looks at me and he's justlike, well, how about we just
start you off working at a deskor something like that?
And that just crushed me.
No way for.
It crushed me, bro.
You know, because I'm just like,here I am, the, the little bit
of hope to make it out the hood.

(19:42):
Gotcha.
Right.
To do something with my life,you know, that didn't end up
still in the streets, you know,he just, he just crushed it,
bro.
That's crazy how the words, thepower words, right?
Yeah.
You know, and, and so it's that,that's around the time.
Like I said, I became sexuallyimmoral and then the streets
just, you know, it became acommon thing, you know, like I

(20:05):
said, uh, being home, you know,my parents weren't really overly
uh, strict, you know, so we kindof just ended up being on the
streets.
So at least I did, you know, atleast I did, you know, and, and,
and that's what led me down thepath towards.
Towards gangs, towards, towardscrime, although like the

(20:28):
criminal aspect doesn't cometill later, you know?
Gotcha.
At least the, the deep, thedeeper part of that.
Gotcha.
You know, so, so, so what wasthat progression that eventually
leads.
To that, like, uh, I, I know youmentioned a lot, a lot of
drinking in the family.
Did, did that, um, become partof your life?
Drinking?
Yes.
Did, did the drinking lead toanything else?

(20:48):
Oh, 100%.
You know, so it all tied intogether, the, the being
sexually immoral, uh, drinking,say marijuana, although I
wouldn't say marijuana.
I mean, I guess I smokedmarijuana'cause everybody else
was smoking it.
You know, I never really foundit to be like.
My drug of choice that camelater, you know?

(21:10):
Um, but yeah, mostly just that,mostly just out drinking,
hanging with the guys, doingdumb things, you know, uh,
scrape through.
Through high school.
Barely, barely made it throughhigh school.
Actually graduated like, uh, uh,in summer school.
You know, graduated in summer.

(21:31):
But you graduated?
Yeah, I graduated in summerschool.
I took pe, I took PE in summerschool, physical education to,
to get you over to Hump, to giveme those little credits to get
me over to Hump.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I graduatedhigh school.
I ended up catching, you know, acase.
And I'm just like, this is rightafter nine 11 had just happened.

(21:55):
I'm showing my age.
I'm showing my age here.
This was right after nine 11,right?
And so, uh, like I said earlier,you know, we're all searching
for God, right?
We're all searching for thatpurpose.
And so, you know, as a kid, mycuriosity about World, of the
World, you know, diminished thatAir Force recruiter, God bless

(22:17):
him, Lord have mercy on hissoul.
That Air Force recruiter reallycrushed it for me, you know?
Uh, and so the nine 11 happened,if you remember, you know, the,
the attacks, uh, on the TwinTowers.
And everybody was like, youknow, standing together and
unity and I was just like, man,you know, I wanna do something

(22:41):
for my country.
You know, I, I wanna join themilitary.
And, and so that's what I did.
That was like my escape becauseI knew like if I stayed in
Chicago then I was just gonnalike, continue down this path.
End up locked up, uh, in prisonor dead.
And so like, I, I made thedecision.
So, so, so that case youmentioned you caught a case.

(23:03):
Yeah.
Now, did you beat it that youwere able to join the military
or what happened?
It got thrown out.
Got it.
It ended up getting thrown out.
Got it.
And so then I was just like, Icaught a blessing there.
Yeah.
You know, not a blessing.
I wasn't a Christian.
I was lucky.
Right.
Yeah.
Or mercy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And so, and so, I ended up justlike, man, I gotta do something.
I gotta get up outta here, youknow?

(23:25):
And so I, I joined, I joined themilitary.
I joined the Marine Corps.
Okay.
Yeah.
How was that experience for youin the Oh, it was an eyeopening.
It was an eyeopening experience,you know, it's like, uh.
I, I, I say the military willteach you how to be a man.
It'll teach you discipline,it'll teach you self-control.

(23:47):
But it won't give you yourpurpose.
Only Christ can, only Christ cangive you your purpose.
Right.
So everything I was searchingfor in the military, my military
career, it was brief, verybrief.
Right?
I ended up getting kicked outthe military, um, for
misconduct, right?
And ended up right back inChicago.
Two years later, in 2004, I getkicked outta the military and

(24:10):
then I'm, I'm right back inChicago, right back in the
position where I was before Ileft.
Right.
If you don't mind me asking,what was that?
Misconduct, uh, fighting, youknow, I ended up fighting with a
superior officer when it wasjust, uh, ended up with a, other
than honorable discharge, youknow?
Gotcha.

(24:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, you know, I don't talkmuch about.
My military experience was justfor the fact that like, after I
got kicked out, my unit ended upgetting deployed to Iraq, you
know, and we lost some guysthere.
And so like, I still feel sometype of way about that.
Like, I, like I let them downbecause, you know, you're a band

(24:53):
of brothers when you're in themilitary.
How, how long had you been withthese guys?
Like before you got up?
Uh, two and a half years, man.
Yeah.
That's, that's a nice wow man tobe building that bond, the
relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And so, you know, I, I foundmyself just, I felt like I let
them down, you know?
And so that's kind like, why,you know, even to this day,

(25:14):
like, I, I kind of joke, justbrush over that part of my life
too much because I, I, I knowGod had more plans for me.
Right, right.
I'm not like, uh, you know,here, um, regretting anything
because I know this was God'splan for my life.
Right.
Uh, but, but yeah, the militarytaught me a lot.
You know, I'm glad of the yearsthat I, that I served there.

(25:36):
Uh, you know, and, and, andmaybe one day I can get my other
than honorable turned into anhonorable discharge.
I mean, you're gonna get it fromhim, so, that's right.
Well done.
Well done.
Good and faithful servant.
There you go, man.
That's right.
That'll be better than the otherone, but, okay.
So you come back to Chicago?
Yeah.
And then how, how, how does lifelook for you once you're back?

(25:59):
So I get back to Chicago and I'mjust like, all right, what?
You know, let me just find thejob, kinda settle back in and I
guess I, I pick up where I leftoff, but it takes just a
drastic.
Turn for the worst.
Right.
I'm like, I'm back in myaddiction.
I'm, I'm depressed, you know, I,I'm, I'm hopeless.

(26:23):
You know, I'm just like, why amI alive now?
Now, addiction at this point, isit just alcohol and weed still,
or, yeah, it's just alcohol.
Okay.
Right.
It's just alcohol at this point.
Gotcha.
I had kind of left the weed,'cause I never really was a big
fan, so I'm just drinkingheavily, you know, and just
like.
Unhappy with life, unhappy withmy situation, you know?

(26:46):
And then, uh, I ended up gettinglike a random job, and that's
where I got introduced toheroin.
One of my coworkers, um, askedme one day after work like, Hey,
can you, can you gimme a ridesomewhere?
Right?
And so.
Sure.
I ain't got nothing else to do.
Right.

(27:06):
But, but get drunk.
Right.
And so, like, uh, I took him andcome to find out, you know, he
was, he was snorting heroin, youknow, and I remember, you know,
him asking me like, Hey, youwant some?
And like, the first time or thesecond time, I, I was like, no,
I'm good.
You know?
But like the third time givinghim a ride to his, his connect,

(27:31):
I was just like.
Okay.
You know, let me, let me give ita shot.
You know,'cause the alcoholwasn't doing it no more for me.
The alcohol wasn't doing it nomore for me.
And so, you know, I, I snortedheroin for the first time.
I say, I say instantly I wasaddicted.
I was an instant dope fiend.
Like right away.

(27:51):
Like I knew that was my drug ofchoice.
I said earlier, I said, uh,marijuana didn't like it too
much.
Alcohol wasn't doing it.
But as soon as I, as soon as Isnorted that line of heroin,
like I knew that that, that,that monkey, that gorilla got
jumped on my back and it neverlet me go.
What, what, what was it that youfelt that you knew this, uh, it

(28:12):
numbed me.
It numbed me to the pain of ahopeless, meaningless existence.
Right?
There's a verse in Ecclesiasteswhere he says, meaningless.
Meaningless.
Everything is meaningless, likechasing after the wind, right?
And, and so that's what.
That's what life is if you don'thave God in the picture, right?

(28:33):
So in the Book of Ecclesiastes,he's taken the position of the
skeptic, right?
He's the skeptic.
And so he says that meaningless.
Meaningless, everything ismeaningless, right?
It's like a puff of smoke, likevapor in the wind.
It's pointless, right?
Like chasing after the wind, youcan't chase after the wind,
right?
And so the position that thatbook takes is of someone.

(28:56):
Life being hopeless and void ofmeaning if God's not there,
right?
Because ulti, ultimately, ifthere isn't a God, then life is
an exercise in futility, right?
It's hopeless, right?
And so.
For us as Christians, we havethat hope, right?
It anchors us.
It grounds us in reality, andit, it, it gives us, it gives

(29:20):
us, uh, assurance of, uh,strengthens our faith as we walk
the walk, right?
Uh, but if you don't have thathope, then you, you don't feel
the presence of God.
You don't have hope or what,what do you turn to?
Right?
Because if, if God said eternityin your heart, if he did.

(29:42):
The Bible says so.
Amen.
And you don't have it.
You, you don't have God.
Well, you're still gonna lookfor it everywhere.
You're gonna look for it inpower.
You're gonna look for it inwealth, you're gonna look for it
in, in drugs, mind alteringsubstances.
You're gonna look for it inrelationships, right?

(30:02):
Wherever you can find purposeand meaning that that's where
you're gonna, that's whereyou're gonna look for it, right?
And so me.
Without God, without hope,without purpose.
Searching for something,searching for something, you

(30:24):
know, I found the heroine andlike it took it all away, like
it took all the pain away.
It numbed me to a meaninglessexistence, right?
It gave me an exit, right?
Because I didn't feel anythingno more.
I was numb to everything.
My emotions were numb.
My mind was numb.

(30:44):
Know, and so that, that just,that was like my early twenties
and you know, I, my wholetwenties, I'm 42 now.
My whole twenties was just likea blur in and out of prison.
Uh, in and out of rehab, in andout of the county.
You know, it's bad.
Like you go into jail when,like, you go to the county and

(31:07):
like the guys remember you, the,the cos remember you right.
Or the guys that you left andyou came back to the deck and
there's guys still there thatremember you from when you left.
Right.
You know.
You're walking in there likeashamed.
'cause you're like, man, here Igo, coming right back.
These dudes are still here andhere I go, coming back.

(31:28):
The cos know your name.
You know where like, cheerswhere everybody knows your name.
Now let me ask you, um, what,what, what are, what's bringing
you back?
Well, what kind of cases are youcatching?
Like as you're in and out of thecounty?
So most of my cases were, weredrug cases, right?
So I say, uh, I ended up, youknow, starting to get high,

(31:51):
right?
And so, you know, in order tofeed my addiction, you know, I,
I had to sell drugs, right?
I had to sell drugs.
I always say I was a great drugdealer.
I don't wanna boast, but theonly problem I had was that I
was my best customer.
Not a good business model.

(32:11):
Okay.
Time to diversify yourportfolio.
Going back to the business, huh?
I guess you didn't listen to,uh, Tony Montana and Eazy-E
right.
Don't, don't get high of yourown supply.
Right.
Don't get high off your ownsupply.
You're right.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
No, not at all.
Gotcha.
Not at all, you know.
But I would tell you this,heroin addiction is one of the

(32:32):
most, if not the most difficultaddiction.
Uh, to kick, you know, and it'llhave you do things that you
wouldn't have done, you know, ifyou weren't addicted to heroin.
Yeah.
Like if people haven't doneheroin before, it's, it, it, it,
it, it's a drug that grabs holdof you and it doesn't let you

(32:54):
go.
And so what happens is youdevelop a tolerance to it and
you become addicted to it, tothe point where if you don't
have it.
You get withdrawal symptoms,right?
So once your body develops atolerance to it, you need more
and more of the drug to gethigh.
And then, so the moment that youstop getting high, like if you

(33:17):
don't get high that day, thenyou, you start feeling sick.
Like you got, you feel like yougot a fever.
You sweat, you got the chills.
The runs like all types ofsymptoms.
Like your body is physicallysick because it's going without
the drug that it's gotten hookedon, right?

(33:37):
And so when you become an addictin that manner, you're willing
to do anything for the drugs.
Right.
And so that will lead you to doall types of crimes, you know?
And so, you know, like I said,it just led me down a path of,
of violence, robbery.

(34:02):
Uh, soliciting prostitution justlike very deep into the Chicago
criminal underworld, you know,uh, just because I've seen so
much on the streets, you know,just being involved with gangs,
addicts, prostitutes.

(34:25):
You know, drug lords, you know,so much that you see, you see
like the underworld of societywhen you're living that type of
lifestyle on the streets, theworst of the worst.
And so, you know, you're,you're.
Your knee deep in it, you know,that becomes your life, you

(34:45):
know, and so that's, that's howmy twenties were just high in
and outta jail, prison, rehab,just getting locked up, trying
to get cleaned up.
Right.
And it's funny because I would,I would get locked up and.
I would get sober enough.

(35:07):
Like I'd be in the county forwhatever reason, if I couldn't
bond out or whatever.
And, and so, you know, first youget the withdrawals coming off
heroin, which is bad.
Um, but then that goes away.
And then like I would, I wouldopen up the Bible, like I had
this curiosity about scripture.
You know, and, and that could,could I ask you something?
Like, I know like growing up yousaid you read a lot, like in

(35:30):
those early years, did you everpick up a bible?
What, what, what was faith likein your home?
Uh, we were, so, we were RomanCatholic.
I say we were cress.
We went to church on Christmasand Easter.
Yeah.
CREs.
Um, so yeah.
So it was more like you went tochurch.
Out of obligation, not out ofdesire, right?
It was more about Catholictradition and you know, uh, just

(35:56):
following the steps of yourancestors.
You know, it was kind of likepunching in the clock at work,
right?
You go to work and you punch inthe clock.
So it was kinda like, Hey, God,I showed up.
Look, I'm here in the pew.
I'm sitting here, I'm singing,I'm shaking hands.
See me?
All right, cool.
And then you leave, and then yougo back to your life because
it's not, it's not Christcentered like it is now for us.

(36:18):
Yeah.
Now everything that you do ismission work.
It's kingdom business.
But as, as Sters growing up, itwas more just about, it was part
of who.
Your family was more liketradition that you were rooted
into.
Yeah.
Right.
So, so back then you didn't readthe Bible.
What, when was the first timeyou picked it up and did it do

(36:38):
anything for you or you just, soI would say, I would say the
first time I, I picked it up toactually read it and see what it
said was what would've been inprison would've been, uh, in
division six, I remembercorrectly.
There was a, of all people, aJehovah's Witness, uh, a pastor

(37:00):
that would come to the deck.
Uh, you know, and so peoplewould get to go, you know, to
the gym or whatever to go listento this Jehovah's Witness,
pastor, mind you, I'm like a,I'm a Priester, so I have no
idea what's going on, you know,and I'm just like, oh, this
guy's teaching the Bible.
Okay.
You know?
Let me go, just because I hadpicked up the Bible for the

(37:21):
first time and I was curiousabout it, curious about reading
it, and I, I wanted to know moreand I say, you know, God used
that Jehovah's Witness pastor toplant seeds in me.
You know, and God will useanybody.
Yep.
You know, I, I'm a firm believerof that.
Oh yeah.
You know, God will use anybody.

(37:42):
And so, you know, to get up offthe deck because who wants to
sit on the deck and be in thecell all day, right.
So like, let me just go get offthe deck, gets me out the cell,
and I would go listen to him,you know, teach on Bible and
stories and whatnot, and it, itengaged me, you know, and it
sparked that curiosity in me ofa kid again.

(38:03):
You know, and so that was likemy road, uh, to back to the
Bible, you know?
And, and so I was still like inthat, that mindset of Roman
Catholicism too.
And so, like one thing I, I say,uh, and I said this at my
wedding, um, is that, you know,in the reform tradition, the

(38:24):
cross that we wear, it's, it's.
It's empty, right?
Christ isn't on that crossbecause he rose again on the
third day in fulfillment of thescriptures.
Hallelujah.
Amen.
Amen.
Uh, but I remember as a kid, youknow, and we would go to church
and we would sit there in thepews and you would look up and
there would be that bigcrucifix, and you would see

(38:45):
Jesus lying there, and he justlooked all defeated.
You know, and, and I remembermy, my grandma saying, you know,
and that painted an image in myhead as a kid.
Like, like, why would I, whywould I wanna worship that?

(39:09):
You know, looking at that imageof Jesus defeated, right?
And so.
That's why in the reformtradition, right, Jesus isn't on
that cross.
Right?
Amen.
Because he's not defeated.
Right.
He reigns, he rose again on thethird day.
He was victorious.
Death could not hold him.

(39:30):
Right?
Amen.
And so it's little things likethat, right?
Just little, that little mindshift.
That means everything.
Yeah, it means everything,right?
It may seem insignificant, notinsignificant, but it's like
just a small little thing, but.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because as a kid, I rememberjust looking up and you know,

(39:51):
he's there and he's hanging andit's like he doesn't look
victorious.
He doesn't look like heconquered.
Right.
He doesn't look like the Biblesays all authority under heaven
and earth has been given to him.
Right, right.
And so that's why.
The cross is empty.
It's because Jesus isn't there.
You know?
He's raining, he's at the righthand of the Father, and it's

(40:13):
gonna come again to judge theliving and the dead.
Amen.
Yeah.
So, so back, back to the county.
You're reading the Bible nowthat sparks an interest.
Does anything change once youcome out or you still come back?
Back to the drugs or No, back tothe drugs.
You know, it was just like arevolving door, you know?
I ended up just getting tied inwith more, more guys that are

(40:35):
like on drugs, you know?
So like, if I'm already immersedin the streets, gang lifestyle,
now I'm involved with guys thatare hooked on drugs, you know?
And so it's just like I, I, I, Iget locked up, I get cleaned up.
I.
I get a little bit in the wordand then, you know, and then I'm
out.
No profession of faith ornothing, just curiosity of the

(40:58):
Bible reading it.
Uh, but then I'd get back outand claim that I was gonna stay
clean, right?
But like I said, heroin.
Is a gorilla on your back, likethat is a drug that once it
grabs you, like it grabs hold ofyou.
Like I tried on my own strength,I tried and I, and I wanted to

(41:19):
get clean, right?
Because I knew the effect it hadon me and how it was destroying
me.
You know, my body, my life, youknow?
Uh, but.
It didn't matter.
'cause I would get out and Iwould have that itch, like a
dope fiend.
That's why I say I, I became aninstant dope fiend.
Like it grabbed me, bro.

(41:41):
And it didn't let me go.
And it just, it just, it justspiraled and snowballed into
something just vicious, youknow?
Uh, and, and, and in and out, inand out for years.
I, I, I know you mentioned theword of vicious.
I know we're talking when I metyou over there and you said how

(42:02):
bad you got.
I know you're talking aboutsnorting, but did that change?
Oh yeah, 100%.
So like I remember too as a kid.
Like seeing like those afterschool specials saying no to
drugs.
You guys remember those withthe, and seeing those after
school specials of like needlesand guy syringes.

(42:23):
And I remember seeing that like,man, how could somebody do that?
You know, that's just crazy,right?
Uh, but my habit, my habit gotso bad, right?
I remember.
You know, I was still justsnorting heroin at the time, and
I remember, you know, meetingsome guys that were, that were

(42:44):
shooting heroin.
Right.
And I remember telling myself,I'll never do that.
You know, I, I, I got, I got toomuch pride to do that.
Right.
I, I'm, you know, I, I won't dothat.
I'm just going, I, I'm not gonnago that, Lord.
I'm not going to sink that lowin the mud, not me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That ain't me.
Right.
But I remember looking at themand then, you know, like I

(43:07):
remember looking at'em andseeing how high they got, you
know, from shooting it.
I, I'm, I'm a dope fi and I'mlike, dude, I, I don't even get
that high.
'cause you build up a toleranceto the drug, right?
And so I'm watching them shootdope and I'm just like, man,
he's nodding off.
He's high as a kite over there.
He's carefree.

(43:28):
I wanna be like that.
Right?
So sure enough, you know,opportunity presented itself and
I started shooting dope.
Yeah, started small.
Um, but again, it snowballs.
It's an addiction and it grabsyou and it doesn't let you go.

(43:51):
So, I mean, I get to the pointand I tell this story that I was
so bad.
So hopeless that I would go infront of the mirror.
I would hold my breath until myjugular vein popped out and I

(44:12):
would pump my jugular veinfilled with heroin.
That's how bad the addiction gotbecause I didn't care if I died,
right?
I didn't care if I died.
I didn't care if I OD'ed off thedrugs.
Honestly, if I OD'ed, it'd putme outta my misery, right?
And so that's how bad it got forme, where I was shooting dope in

(44:37):
my neck.
Man, that's going back to thatword, vicious.
That.
Yeah.
Dangerous too.
I would imagine.
I mean, I, I've, when I talk toyou that, to be honest, that's
the first time I heard somebodydoing that in the neck.
I know people doing the arms,their legs, but.
When you mentioned the neck, I'mlike, man, that's like you
mentioned.

(44:57):
Yeah.
That was like suicidal in asense.
Oh yeah.
100%.
But it took a while to getthere.
Right?
It developed because like, Imean, I was a dope fiend.
I'm serious.
Like when I say I was a dopefiend, hey man, I used up all
the veins in my arms.
Like I started in the arms, youknow?
And it was like, it was likefinding spots to hit, right?
Because as you, as you continueto do heroin, like it.

(45:21):
You use up your veins and thenyou have to find the other spot
so it, it end, it started in thearm, but then eventually
progressed to there.
You know, I mean, that's howbad, that's how lost I was.
That's how hopeless I was, youknow?
And I didn't care, bro.
Like I didn't care if I lived ordied, you know.

(45:42):
Did, did, did, did anythinghappen or change that started
you on the road of, of changinglike.
Was there?
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
So before, before that, the, thereason I started shooting in the
neck was because I rememberbeing in, in, in a, in a motel
room with a woman.
Right.

(46:03):
And so, you know, she was, shewas shooting in the neck and I
wasn't there yet.
Right.
I was still.
Shooting, but I was like, man,that's kind of dangerous.
Like you said, like, dude,something happens up there, bro.
Like, you know, you gonna havesome problems.
You know, you miss a vein upthere, right?
Yeah.
Or you not off with that needlein your neck.
Yeah, it was, it's reckless.
It was crazy.

(46:23):
And I remember her like, uh, Iremember her doing it shooting
up in her neck, and then Iremember she just like starts
convulsing.
Like she just outta nowhere.
Just like.
Keels over and she startsconvulsing on the bed.
And I remember thinking tomyself, oh man, she's gonna die
or something.
Like, she's gonna OD on.
I wasn't, and like I was so fargone in the criminal lifestyle

(46:46):
that like, I wasn't even worriedabout her, about her health or
her life.
Like the only thing I wasworried about was that I was on
parole and that I was gonna bein the presence of somebody who
possibly OD'ed, you know, I wasonly like looking out for my own
interests.
Right?
Sure.
And so I remember like trying toget her up.
And, and wake her up.
And so I'm like shaking her,like to try to snap out of it.

(47:08):
And then I grab like some waterthat we had and I poured it on
her.
And then she finally, like, shefinally snaps out of it.
And I look at her and I'm like,are you okay?
And she's like, that was effinggreat.
Those were her words.
She was like, that's, that waseffing great.
And I remember looking at herand I remember thinking like, I

(47:30):
wanna get that high, you know?
Yeah.
And so that's why I say that'show, that's how bad it got, that
it was just like, I didn't careif I lived or died.
My life was without hope.
I had no purpose.
The drugs were the only thingthat numbed me, numbed the pain
of a hopeless, meaninglessexistence.

(47:52):
And, you know, I was gonna do'emuntil, you know, until, uh, I
died or something else happened.
What is that or something elsethat begins to happen.
Yeah.
So eventually, you know, I am,my, my father dies at the age of
57.
He dies from diabetes along withother complications to his

(48:16):
health.
Right?
And so that's in December of2014, and I remember.
I'm like, man, I gotta dosomething.
Man.
My dad's dead at 57.
You know?
Uh, diabetes is heavy in myfamily.
You know, my grandma, his momdied.

(48:38):
Diabetes, he's got uncles.
I got uncles that die.
Die.
You know, we're Mexicans, youknow, it's, it's very deep in
our, yeah, in our, in our, inour people.
Uh, and so and so, my dad diesat 57.
And I'm just like, I, I gotta dosomething.
Like I, I can't keep on this,this road, you know?
And, and, and, but I couldn't, Icouldn't do anything on my own,

(49:00):
you know, because I couldn'tbreak the addiction on my own.
Like, it had me, it had a gripon me and it wouldn't let me go.
The addiction was so bad.
I was getting high at my dad'swake.
I was in the bathroom shootingup at my dad's wake, bro.
Yeah, I remember nodding off onthe way there and my brother
like.
Yelling at me like, Hey man, getyourself together, dude.

(49:23):
We're on our way to the wake,you know?
And so like, uh, it was bad,bro.
And so like December passesJanuary, February, and then
March comes, right?
March comes, I end up like, uh,getting pulled over.
I was high, uh, I was noddingoff.

(49:46):
Uh, the, the cops pulled meover.
Uh, they find some drugs on meand so they lock me up.
Right.
And so I'm a parole vi.
I'm on parole, so that's aparole violation.
So there's, there's no countyfor me.
Like I'm going straight toStatesville.
Right.
Let, let me ask you, you're onparole.
Did you do some time, how muchtime did you do before that,

(50:08):
that you were on, on, um, paroleat this time?
Uh, I had did, I had did about.
Four years in and out throughoutmy twenties.
Okay, gotcha.
Yeah, just coming in andcatching cases, violating
parole, stuff like that.
Alright.
Uh, yeah.
And so I end up as a paroleviolator, uh, going back down to

(50:30):
Statesville.
Right.
And so I'm in Stateville, NRC,I'm in 3G.
NRC is like the holding cellwhere they hold you until they
ship you out to the prisonyou're supposed to go to.
Right.
And so, like, by this time Ithink, I mean my addiction was
bad, like I skipped over, uh, itwasn't just heroin, but I was

(50:54):
heavily drinking.
I was on Xanaxes, I was doingpills, so I had Xanaxes and I
was also on methadone, whichMethadone is like a heroin
replacement that like.
You can get at a clinic that'ssupposed to help you to get off
of heroin.
Uh, but from my experience, themethadone clinics is just a

(51:16):
place where all the dophinesgather to find the best dope
spot, you know?
Um, so for me, like I was onmethadone and methadone
withdrawal, it's a horriblewithdrawal.
It's worse than heroin.
Like it takes, it takes a longtime to come off that.
So here I am getting locked up.
I'm in NRC Statesville.
I'm, I'm, I'm coming off ofheroin, I'm coming off of

(51:39):
alcohol, I'm coming off ofmethadone.
Uh uh, and coming off of, I saidthe pills, the Xanaxes, right.
So like, here I am and I'm just,I'm in, I'm in the cell, and the
Lord put me by myself becauselike I was just so far off sick,
just sick withdrawals, likeunimaginable, right?

(52:00):
Uh, and I cried out to God, bro.
Bro.
I cried out to God and I said,God, if you're real.
Take this away from me, LordGod.
I didn't, didn't call him Lord.
Yeah.
If you're real, God, take thisaway from me.
I don't wanna live my life likethis anymore.
I'll do whatever it is that youask of me.

(52:23):
Right?
And there's a, there's a versein the psalm.
Uh, Psalm 34, 6, this poor mancried out and the Lord heard him
and saved him from all histroubles.
Amen.
So that was at night that Icried out to God.
And then the following morningthere's a, there's a pastor like
doing his rounds.

(52:44):
I, I remember hearing the dooropen to the, to the cell block.
Uh, and, and I remember himcalling out, does anyone need
prayer?
Does anyone want a Bible?
You know,'cause there'd bepastors that come in to visit
and hand out literature andstuff.
And I remember I was all the wayup on 3G, the third floor, all
the way in the corner.
I'm, I'm dope sick, you know?

(53:05):
I'm like, oh man.
I was like, Ugh, I gotta get up.
Like, I don't even want to getup, but I, I get up, I, I, I
wrestle my way up.
I, I go, I go to the door and I,I scream out.
I'm up here in 3G, right?
And so pastor makes his way upthere, you know, and I tell him,
and I'm like, Hey, it's acoincidence.

(53:27):
That you came today.
Because last night I was cryingout to God and he said, it's not
a coincidence young man.
It's the will of God.
Amen.
Yeah.
And so he prayed with me.
He prayed the sinner's prayerwith me.
Uh, and I accepted Jesus Christas my Lord and Savior right then

(53:49):
and there in the, in the cell in3G in Stateville, NRC.
Dope.
Sick.
Dope Sick out of my mind.
Right.
But I tell people when he prayedover me, something came over me.
You know?
And, and some people have thisexperience, some people don't,
right.

(54:09):
Uh, when they convert to Christ.
But I remember just for thatmoment in prayer, like all the
dope sickness went away.
And like I just had peace in myheart, bro, when he prayed over
me.
So he gave me a Bible.
I remember I still have thatBible.
It's my most prized possession.
The Bible he gave me, uh, and heslid it under the door.

(54:32):
He's like, here, take thisBible.
I want you to read it every day.
And he said, but this isimportant.
Before you read it, I want youto pray to God that he opened up
his word for you.
Pray to the Holy Spirit to fillyou to understand the word.
And so I did that.

(54:52):
I did that.
And I tell you, the next sixmonths was like the worst.
I ended up getting two years,right?
I got, I got two years and Iended up going downstate to
Lawrenceville CorrectionalFacility.
Uh, and I, and I tell people,you know, those were the best
two years of my life.
And they look at me like I'mcrazy.
Like, how could you be lockedup?

(55:14):
They'd be the best years as I I,my body was physically locked
up, but Jesus had set me free.
Amen.
You know, and so I, the, thenext six months was like,
withdrawal, and it was justlike, you know, I, I tell
people, it took me like sixmonths before I could sleep
through the night without like,getting up, you know, because of
everything that like I had wascoming off of like all the

(55:35):
drugs, like I had completelydestroyed my body.
You know, my body was justcompletely, completely
destroyed.
And so, you know.
I'm downstate and, uh,lawrenceville's, uh, a media max
parole violator joint.
So you don't get out to sellmuch, you know, you don't get
out to sell much.

(55:56):
So what am I doing?
I'm reading.
I'm reading every day, all day.
That's what I'm doing.
And then God bless me withChristian brothers.
In, in, in the prison, you know,mys next to me, uh, that were in
the word that had books,Christian books.
I mean, I read The Fathers, Iread like Aquinas, uh, I read

(56:20):
Augustine, I read, uh, JohnCalvin, uh, c uh, the Institutes
of Christian Religion.
Like, I, I got deep bro, youknow, like I had all the time on
my hands.
Yeah.
You know, so I.
Myself, and I tell people, like,if God put me there for a
reason, because he knew I, Iwouldn't have got it on the
streets.
No.
Like he had to go sideline me,you know, and put me in there so

(56:41):
that I can, I can be fed.
And so I just, I read the Bible,I read it all the way through,
then I read it, then I went backand I read it again, right?
I read whatever Christianliterature I could read just
because I was hungry.
Omar, bro, bro, I was hungry,man.
You know?
Uh, because, you know, once you.
Once you've tasted and seen thatthe Lord is good, bro, man, it

(57:05):
changes everything, bro.
Yes it does.
It changes everything, man.
And like the words is true, youare a new creation in Christ.
You know?
Uh, I, you know, Christ foundme, bro.
Like that was the lost sheep,bro.
And he came, he came back from,and that changed everything in
my life immediately, dude.

(57:26):
Immediately I knew that.
I wasn't gonna get high no more.
Nobody believed me, bro.
Like I would call home, I wouldcall my moms, my fam, I'd be
like, Hey, I'm a Christian now.
I'm not gonna get high no more.
And they would look at, theywould be on the phone.
You need to stop.
You need to make sure that youget in a rehab when you get out.

(57:48):
You need to make sure this,that, and I'm, I'm like, BA, I'm
okay.
I trust me.
I'm okay.
I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not gonnaget high.
They didn't believe me, bro.
They didn't believe me.
They didn't know that's that,uh, jail house religion.
You're, you're, you're talkingabout man.
Alright.
That's what people, what peoplesay, man, you know?
Yeah, you're right.
And then I remember when I wouldbe back in like the county and

(58:10):
in prison before I came toChrist and I, I, I wouldn't
wanna get in prayer circles likethat'cause I'd be like, oh, you
know, that's jail housereligion.
You guys are gonna get out anddo the same thing.
You know, uh, but I'm tellingyou, dude, I But you knew that.
I knew.
You knew man.
Like that.
I knew.
I knew.
I knew it was, it was gone theinstant he prayed over me.
The desire to do heroin wasgone.

(58:33):
I've been clean to this day.
Oh, how, how long has it been?
That was 2015.
So we're, we're going on, we'regoing on 10 years now, man.
Praise God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Praise God, man.
Yeah.
From a prayer, from a prayer.
From when, when you cry out toGod.
I tell people I remember havingthis conversation, uh, when I
came home, right?

(58:53):
And I went to like a barbecue,uh, and there was some Christian
brothers there and we werefellowshipping and, uh, this,
this Christian brother, he had adrinking problem, you know?
Uh, and he was there drinking.
He's like, man, I got so manythings I wanna do for the Lord,
but you know, this is keeping mefrom it.
And he, and he looked at thebeer, you know, and I told him.

(59:16):
I get it, bro.
I get it.
I've been there.
I'm like, but you know, have youever really like, sincerely,
like sincerely, with all yourheart.
Ask God to take that away fromyou because I believe that if
you truly come to God and take,tell him to take that away from
you, he will do it.
Amen.
And he, he told me no.
He's like, no, I've never, I'venever got down on my knees and

(59:38):
begged God.
Like, you gotta get down on yourknees, dude.
And begged God, I was on myknees, bro.
I was on my knees begging God,telling them God, I will do
whatever it is you want me toGod.
The Bible says, the psalmistsays, if I had cherished
iniquity in my heart, the Lordwould not have heard my prayers.

(59:59):
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
So if there's still a part ofyou that still wants to hold on
to the drugs, still wants tohold on to the sexual
immorality, still wants to holdonto the greed, whatever.
Whatever your sin of choice is,right?
If there's still a part of youthat wants that, God's not gonna
hear your prayers, man.

(01:00:22):
He wants you to hit Yeah.
Give it all to him.
And he wants to find you brokenand empty because that's how
he's gonna use you.
Yeah.
That's how he's gonna use you,bro, because he's gotta fill you
back up, man.
Amen.
With his presence.
Yeah.
Okay, so, so you're in there,man, you're hungry, you're

(01:00:42):
feeding yourself Bible and allthese books.
Now you get out.
You, you have the family saying,oh man, come on, you gotta go to
rehab when you get out.
There's no way you're gonna beclean on your own.
Mm-hmm.
H how did that look when youcame out?
Did anybody that remembered youcome to you, try to temp you,
you know, like, Hey, come on,man.
The little beer, little drugs.

(01:01:03):
Yeah.
How, how, how was that for you?
Like when you got out?
So when, when I was down there,and this is where I got my first
taste of evangelism, MarcelDave, he would go.
Sell to sell.
Every time we had day room, hewould go sell to sell and ask
people, uh, if they wantedprayer.
Right?

(01:01:24):
And I remember being down thereand I would hear guys curse him
out through the door, tell himto get the F outta here and just
blasting God.
All types of crazy stuff.
I mean, there's guys out therethat are.
Accepting.
Right.
There's believers and stuff, butthen there's, it's prison,
right?
So you going, you're gonna getthat type of response.
Yeah.
From some guys, you know?
Right.
And so like, I remember askinghim like, you know, uh uh, man,

(01:01:48):
bro, why do you keep doing that?
These, you know, like, don't youthink like you keep doing it,
man, these guys, they don't wantit, bro.
He's like, man, God calls us tobe a watchman.
Right.
God calls us to be a watchman.
It's in Ezekiel, I think it'slike Ezekiel 33 or something.
He says, be a watchman to mypeople.
And so that was my first tasteof evangelism that I ever got

(01:02:10):
was seeing him go door to doorfrom cell to cell, trying to
pray over people and read thescripture to people, and people
denying him and denying him.
But he would get up and he woulddo it all over again the next
day.
And, and that taught me a lot.
Like he was a blessing.
Like he was like, Paul hadTimothy, like he, I consider him

(01:02:32):
like Paul to me.
Yeah.
Because he really mentored meand he was there to answer my
questions and really like, showme how to live as a believer in
prison because I didn't know.
Right.
I didn't even know how to liveas a believer.
And one thing he told me.
When it, when it came for mytime to get out, he was like,
you need to find a church.
Like immediately you need to getout and you gotta get plugged

(01:02:55):
into a church.
Right.
And he stressed it.
And so I was like, okay.
You know, and so coming home, I,I remember, I, I, I paroled to
my, to my mom's house.
I paroled back to her house andI remember trying to find a job
and whatnot.
You know, it's difficult becauseI was wearing the house arrest

(01:03:15):
band, you know, and I'm just,uh, fell in and everything, you
know, and I remember, uh, Iremember walking one time into,
into the house coming fromoutside.
Like I, I was taking the bus tolike, uh, go fill out job
applications and stuff.
And I was, I, I wasn't gettingno luck, right?
I wasn't having no luck.

(01:03:36):
And I remember like, God, what'sgoing on, man?
Like.
I'm out here, I'm, I'm stayingaway from all the noise.
Like I ain't, I erased everybodyoff my phones and stuff.
Like all the context thatanybody that had anything to do
with getting high, like I wasnowhere near'em, bro.
You know?
And I remember just saying like,Hey, uh, you know, God, what's

(01:03:58):
going on?
You know?
And I remember I was walkingdown the gangway and I remember
there was like a littlesquirrel.
And as I was walking, thesquirrel was, was walking in
front of me and it would turnaround and he would look at me
and as I would walk more, hewould walk more and then he'd
turn around.
And like if he was watching me,like if he was leading me, like
if he was saying, Hey man,follow me, I got you.

(01:04:19):
And like I tell that story andpeople think I'm nuts.
Right.
And see the squirrel, not yet.
Oh yeah, I got it.
But I truly felt that that wasGod.
Like,'cause I was in the middleof prayer, like God crying out
to God, God what's going on?
And he sent this little squirrelthere to have this little moment
with me to say, Hey man, keepyour eyes on me, bro.
I got you.

(01:04:39):
Amen.
And it wasn't shortly after thatthat I ended up getting a job,
uh, a landscaping Christy Weber,a landscaping job.
And, you know, I was able toprovide for myself and stuff
like that.
Uh, so that was a blessing.
And as far as church.
I knew I needed to find achurch, bro.
So I, I end up, uh, I end up,before I got incarcerated, I

(01:05:00):
used to work for a man who wouldtell me about New Life Church.
He would always say, yeah, youneed to check out this church.
Uh, my, my brother-in-law is thepastor there, pastor Mark, job
New Life, midway 51st andKeeler.
And so like coming home fromprison, I was like, okay, let me
go try this church that Danalways used to tell me about.

(01:05:21):
Right.
And so I ended up walking upinto New Life and like from the
moment I stepped foot in there,like I knew that's where the
Holy Spirit wanted me.
Like I knew right away, likewalking in there, like I just
felt the presence of the HolySpirit, right.
From Be.
And so I knew that that's whereI needed to be.
And, and I've been there and I'mstill there to this day, you
know?
Man.

(01:05:41):
So you've been there since, uh,2015?
Yeah.
2016.
2016, yeah.
Yeah.
Got it.
Okay.
Earlier.
You mentioned wife, if I'm notmistaken.
Yeah.
Uh, where, where, where, wheredoes she come into the picture?
Yeah, that's later.
So I did have a, a child out ofwedlock before I became a
Christian.
So then my mom ended up takingcare of my son while, while I

(01:06:03):
was incarcerated, while I was inprison.
And you know, it's just the wayhow God works too.
You know?
My mom was suffering with theloss of.
My dad.
And so like, she had kinda myson there to, I'm in prison, but
at least my son was there withher to like console her, you
know?
And so like, uh, you know, myson's mom's out the picture, you

(01:06:24):
know, hadn't seen him.
I, I came home from prison andshe was like already out the
picture.
Uh, so that's why my son went togo stay, uh, with my mom.
So I get out and I'm a singledad.
You know, that's another reasonwhy.
I need to find a church.
I gotta ground my child in thetruth.
Right.
Gotcha.
Bible says, raise your childrenin the ways of the Lord.
When they get old, they will notdepart.

(01:06:44):
Right.
Oh, how old is he at that timewhen you got, uh, I came home.
He was four.
Okay.
He was four.
Uh, and so, so, um, we end upat, at New Life.
Right.
I'm, I'm a single dad and I'mjust there, you know, taking
care of my son and just, youknow, taking care of myself, you
know, learning how to live as aChristian, you know.

(01:07:06):
Uh, learning how to be obedientto Christ, you know, and, and
walk that line.
'cause you know, I'll be honestwith you, bro, and I'll be
complete honest with you,transparent.
You know, I, I became, you know,a Christian in prison.
I was on fire for the Lord.
Uh, but, you know, uh, a mancomes home from prison, bro.
You know, a man comes home fromprison and he does what guys who

(01:07:30):
come home from prison do, bro,you know?
And I fell, you know?
Yeah.
I fell, my walk, I stumbled, youknow, and I, and I was sexually
immoral, uh, with a woman, youknow?
And, and I remember sitting in ahotel and just sitting in the
mirror.
I looked in the mirror and Istarted bawling, bro.
Like I was crying in the mirror.
Like,'cause I knew that I hadlet the Lord down.

(01:07:52):
I felt so, like, ashamed of whatI had done, you know?
And I remember from that day,from that moment, I said, you
know what?
Like if I'm gonna call myself aChristian.
Then I need to act like I, Igotta follow God in every area
of my life, every area of mylife, you know?
And so, you know, I made a, youknow, if I could touch on that,

(01:08:14):
'cause a lot of people look at,they take that lightly.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
I, it's my girlfriend, you know.
But you knew based on scripture.
Yeah.
It, it's a sin.
'cause a lot of times we couldsay, oh man, a sin is man
breaking the law.
Being in Cook County, all that,that's a sin.
But hey, you know, you're just,you and your girlfriend could,
could you touch a little bit onthat?

(01:08:34):
I guess anybody's gonna be,well, 100%.
You know, because I mean, I,like I said, in prison, I, I
read the word, like I knew whatthe word said about being
sexually immoral, you know?
And I knew that it was a sin,you know, but I, I, I thought
that I could kind of just, Icould still have that, you know?
Right.
I could still, like, God wasgonna overlook that, you know.

(01:08:55):
Uh, and kinda like make it anexcuse for myself.
Well, the Lord knows I'm cominghome from prison, you know?
Come on, man.
You know, uh, but no.
Oh yeah, no.
You know, uh, God calls us topurity, right?
God calls us to purity.
And it's funny because just talkabout my wife, right?
I ended up meeting my wife at,at New Life midway.

(01:09:17):
Uh, and so we dated for about ayear.
Then we got married, right?
And so I got married in 2023.
Uh, I got married a day after my40th birthday.
So I tell people that I was a40-year-old virgin for one day.

(01:09:38):
It is good.
Yeah, you got joke.
I told that joke at the wedding,right?
Because I wanted people to know.
That we had kept our purity Oh,gotcha.
Throughout our whole datingphase.
Right.
Because my family obviously verysecular, non-believers, whatnot,
you know?
And then just like you said,like people think it's okay to

(01:09:58):
just, you know, sleep around andbe sexually immoral.
But, you know, it was achallenge.
But me and my wife, when westarted dating, we made sure we
had mentors, accountabilitypartners in the church.
You know, and we, we, we didn'tleave any opportunity for the
enemy to tempt us and trust me,Omar, bro, it was hard, brother.
It was hard because we're, we'regrown.

(01:10:21):
We were like in our latethirties dating, you know, we
both got kids.
She had a son that was sixmonths older than mine.
Uh, and so it's like you'regrown.
Yeah.
You know, you gotresponsibilities and everything.
I mean, you know, you got needs.
Yeah.
But no, we wanted to do it rightby God.
Amen.
We wanted to do, and we did itright by God.

(01:10:42):
And so I told that joke at mywedding because I wanted
everybody to know the commitmentwe made to God.
Because if God calls us to bepure, then we, we have to be
pure.
Right.
And for me it was like amonumental achievement.
Yeah.
To be able to date her for ayear and not have sex.

(01:11:03):
Yeah.
Right.
But I knew that.
God was calling.
I mean, you know, you have tosacrifices that you make for
God.
You have to be able to tame theflesh.
Right?
And there's blessing andobedience.
100%.
100%, 100%.
He's blessed us.
You know, and it's like, I, Ikeep seeing the blessings

(01:11:25):
everywhere.
It's everywhere.
Praise God.
How, how, how is, uh, me, uh,merry life for you?
I know you mentioned, uh, 20threes.
It's only been a couple years.
Yeah, we just celebrated our twoyear anniversary.
Congratulations.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
You know, and you know, I alwaystell people, Hey man, you, you
want God to work in your life.
Get married.
Get married.

(01:11:45):
God will show you some thingsthat you didn't know was wrong.
Which, yeah, you thought youwere holy.
You thought you thought you washoly.
You thought you had it alltogether.
Nah, nah.
Let me show you what's wrongwith you.
Yeah.
Let me show you what's wrong.
We were at a wedding recently.
Uh, I remember the pastor waslike, you know, the purpose of
your spouse is to sanctify you.

(01:12:06):
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I thought that wasthe could, could you share
sanctify?
Somebody's gonna be here in thisman.
We'll, sanctify.
What's sanctification?
Sanctification is to be made.
Holy.
Right.
It's to be made righteous.
So that's God cleansing you ofyour sin.
Uh, exterior sin could be likethe alcohol could be like the
sexual.
Uh, immorality, but you know, alot of the times it's what comes

(01:12:29):
from the abundance of thehearth.
That's what Jesus says out ofthe abundance of the hearth, the
heart, the mouth speaks.
Yeah.
Right.
And so, like for me, you know,like God took away the
addiction.
Like he took that away.
And here I am like, Hey man, youknow, God took all that away.
I'm clean on the outside, youknow, but still God has the work
in.
On your pride.
God has to work on your anger.

(01:12:50):
God has to work on the conditionof your heart.
God got God.
Gotta make you more gracious.
Right.
More loving.
Yeah.
Right.
And, and, and take away thatself, that self-centeredness and
that conceit, because that's theway we grow up where we're
sinners from birth.
Right.
Yeah.
Bible says that out of my, I wasborn in inequity, right?

(01:13:10):
Yeah.
Gotcha.
Okay, so you're married.
Now ministry.
Like all throughout, even whenwe started talking, you were
talking about evangelismpreaching.
Yeah.
You, you got ahead of the story,but now, now we gotta get there.
So.
Oh, man.
Okay.
You're, you see the guyevangelizing how much time we
got, buddy?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaking of that too, it's 8 46,so, Hey, we, we'll keep going
man.
I'm, I'm, I'm knee deep already.

(01:13:30):
Oh yeah.
If you got time, Mike.
I got time, man.
You know, we had, you know,unscheduled interruption
earlier, but man, we're flowing.
So I'm gonna leave it up to you,you know.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, so go, go, go into that.
Yeah.
So, you know, I come out, I comeoutta prison and I'm, I'm aside
from my minor setback that Ihad.
Uh, I'm on fire for God, bro.
You know, like I'm on fire forGod.

(01:13:51):
Like I, I, I see the change thathe's done in me and.
You know, I wanna serve him.
And I made that vow to him, likein the prison cell.
I said, Lord, I'll do whateverit is you want me to.
So then I begin, I began to getheavily involved in, in men's
ministry.
Right.
I become a leader in the men'sministry.
Uh, and so I remember one of thebrothers, I was at his, uh, I

(01:14:14):
was at his baby shower, right?
Him and his wife were having ababy.
And I remember we're at his babyshower and he's telling me about
how.
The weekend before he had beenon 18th Street passing out Bible
tracks, uh, and sharing thegospel with people.
And, and I remember thinking tomyself like, wow, God has

(01:14:36):
blessed me so much.
You know, he's taken thisaddiction away from me.
He is given me employment, ahome, uh, me and my son are in
the church.
Like I've read so much.
Like I know the word, uh, likewhy ain't I out here?
Why ain't I out there with him?
You know?
Uh uh, I think Augustine says,what, what good is it if you

(01:14:58):
have knowledge, if you don'tshare it with others?
Right.
And it's more than justknowledge.
It's the gospel.
Right.
And so I remember telling him,dude, when are you going back
out?
'cause I wanna go with you.
And so that just, that's how,you know, we launched our
evangelism ministry.
And this was like right afterCOVID.
So we're talking about like 2020COVID was in March.

(01:15:20):
This was around August,September, you know, and we just
started, it was me and him, uh,with a speaker, a microphone,
and some Bible tracks going outevery Saturday, uh, wherever the
Lord let us, mostly likedowntown.
We started on like Rooseveltand, and state.
Roosevelt and Wabash area, andwe would just pack up our

(01:15:43):
speaker.
We would go preach the GospelStreet, preach and just have
conversations with people andshare the gospel.
And you know, that was 2020 andhere we are five years later,
Chicago Evangelism, still doingtwo events a month consistently
throughout the whole city ofChicago.

(01:16:04):
Uh, we have partnered withmultiple churches.
Throughout Chicagoland, uh,we've seen all types of people
come to Christ.
Uh, our church, new Life Midway,is part of a church that meets
in over 27 locations.
So whenever we meet people andthey wanna accept Christ as

(01:16:26):
their Lord and Savior, then wemake sure that we find them one
of the churches where they canbe discipled.
Uh, you know, and they can growin Christ.
Uh, because what we do is, isevangelism.
We love to preach the gospel.
We love to, uh, tell peopleabout Jesus.
Uh, like I said, we're notashamed of the gospel.
Acts four 20 says, for we cannothelp but speak of what we have

(01:16:50):
seen and heard.
Amen.
Right.
Wasn't that Peter when he wasbrought before them, when they
were trying to, to silence him.
Exactly.
You gotta stop preaching in thatname, man.
Exactly, brother.
You're spot on.
Yeah, that's exactly, and thenthey, then they end up getting
beaten and then they said theyrejoice for, they were found
worthy to be beaten for Christman, like suffering and, and for

(01:17:13):
him.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Wow.
You know, so yeah, that's howthe Evangelism Ministry
launched.
Like I said.
It started right after COVID andit's just, it's just blown up
something that God is just onthe move in this city.
I tell people and they think I'mjust like a broken record
because I say, God is doingsomething powerful right now, in

(01:17:35):
this moment, in this city.
Amen.
You know, uh, uh, for instance,like I just baptized four guys
in Lake Michigan two weeks ago.
I, I seen that, uh, on Facebook,you know, speaking of that real
quick.
You mentioned the name, Ibelieve, what was the name of
it?
Of the, uh, the ministry,Chicago Evangelism.
Where, where could people go to?
Maybe So you could find us onFacebook and Instagram.

(01:17:57):
Just look up Chicago Evangelism.
And if you wanna get in touchwith us, you can send us, uh, DM
or you can emailus@chicagoevangelism.gmail.com.
Amen.
Okay.
Now going back, you said youwere at the lake for guys.
What, what, what, what madethis, uh, uh, special?
I guess so, you know, I've,I've, I've.

(01:18:18):
I took some time off from men'sministry when I got married, you
know, because we had to do, uh,fusion ministry.
We wanted to make sure that wewere plugged into the church as
a couple.
Um, you know, but then I feltGod calling me back to men's
ministry.
So I started leading a, a groupat our men's ministry at the
church.
Uh, and then the church ended uptaking the summer off, or they,

(01:18:41):
they still, they still decidedto leave it open, but one of the
brothers there who.
Owns a barbershop, um, was like,Hey, we could go do the Bible
study at my barbershop.
You know, shout out to Leo fromWall Street Barbers.
Uh, and so who is he?
Well, here.
South side.
Yeah, south side of Chicago.
Got it.
Archer and Central area.

(01:19:02):
Wall Street Barbers.
Got it.
Give more plug.
Yeah, get a good cut.
Get a good cut.
Go to Wall Street Barbershop.
Um, so yeah, so we, we ended up.
Back at his barbershop.
And there's a whole nother storybehind that.
Like, I started taking my son tothis, to this, uh, to this
barbershop when I came home fromprison.
And back then it was whatbarbershops do, right?

(01:19:24):
Guys drinking, smoking,profanity, music, you know, wild
movies on the screen.
I even got to the point whereI'm just like, God, should I go
somewhere else?
But, but I, the thing is I foundmyself like preaching the gospel
there.
Like I found myself defendingthe faith, you know?
I would go in there and guyswould have crush and they guys

(01:19:45):
would mock and scoff and stufflike that.
And, oh, here comes Brother Sal,the Christian.
Ha ha.
You know?
But you know, I kept going, youknow, and I, I, and I showed
that Christianity wasn't likesome fantasy religion, right?
I always tell people,Christianity makes the most
sense.
About reality than any otherreligion, ideology, philosophy,

(01:20:08):
you know, I think it's CharlesSpurgeon who says the truth is
like a lion.
Let it loose.
It'll defend itself.
Mm-hmm.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Yeah.
And so, like, you know, beingwell read and in the word, you
know, you, you.
You don't have to defend thetruth, bro.
You know the truth defendsitself.
And they recognize that in thatbarbershop, bro.

(01:20:29):
And they, they, they might nothave believed yet, but they saw,
man, there's something to thisbecause this dude actually knows
and is confident in what he's,so I planted seeds little by
little.
So fast forward years and yearsand years later, one of the
barbers ends up at my Biblestudy, right?
And he brings one of the otherbarbers.

(01:20:50):
Which brings one of the otherbarbers, and then we take the
Bible study back to thebarbershop for the summer, and
now God is just bringing peopleoff the streets because some
people are hesitant to go to achurch.
Yeah.
But they'll go to a barbershopbecause it's like neutral, you
know?
It's like, oh, it's a barbershop.

(01:21:12):
I get to go there and learnabout the Bible because there's
an interest about the Bible,unlike anything I've seen, uh,
since I started evangelism.
Right?
And so God's bringing peoplefrom off the street and they're
telling other guys about it, andthey're barbers, they're fading
people up and talking aboutJesus in the barbershop, bro, I
got pictures.
The place got just full.

(01:21:34):
And so what happened is likethese guys decided to take the
bold step of baptism, right?
Because that's the next step.
And they're like, Hey, but wewanna do it at Lake Michigan.
And I'm just like, okay.
Like that's a great idea.
He is like, man, I wanna do itat Lake.
I want you to baptize me in LakeMichigan, bro.
So I'm like, man, I ain't neverdid that before.

(01:21:54):
You know the baptized people atthe church, but Lake Michigan.
But that sounds like a goodidea, bro.
Man.
So we went two weeks ago.
We were there and it was thisforecast called for rain.
It called for rain.
Uh, and I'm telling everybody,man, it's gonna be raining, but
we're still going do it.
We're still going to do it.
So we get there and it's like,God kind of just opened up the
skies, bro.
We did like a little shortlittle service there.

(01:22:16):
I led in a little bit of a word.
My wife, uh, sang and ledworship.
Oh, wow.
And then we just because theyhad family there, bro, like
their families Oh yeah.
Came out.
Yeah.
Nice.
There was, there was peoplethere to witness it, bro.
It wasn't just us.
Like these guys brought theirfamilies out to witness it, you
know, and so we made it kind oflike a mini service out there on
the lake.
And we baptized him, bro, and itwas just incredible to see how

(01:22:40):
God is working.
I said, look, here, go fourgrown men, you know, that have
been through some things.
You know, they've been throughall types of trauma, pain, seen
all types of evil, you know, butGod calls them to him.
When God draws us to him, man,you know, you can't say no,

(01:23:00):
amen.
You can't say no.
And so, yeah, that's how that,that came about.
And today we're doing that Biblestudy every Tuesday.
It said we were just thereyesterday.
Uh, you know, because God isdoing some amazing things,
brother, in this city.
Amen.
People, people watch the news,and the news is meant to
condition you, to take yourmorale from you to depress you

(01:23:20):
because it's all bad news.
Right?
At, at the end of the newscast,they give you like one little
story about like a cat beingrescued from a tree or
something, right?
But there's never anything like,but.
I'm telling you all the goodnews I see on the streets of
Chicago, like people are comingto Christ in droves.
Amen.
The youth, the youth are comingto Christ.

(01:23:40):
Amen.
Grown men coming to Christ,everybody from all walks of life
want to know more.
They wanna know about Christ.
And then this is ouropportunity.
This is our opportunity toshare, share, share, and be the
church, right?
Be priests to the nations.
Amen.
Man.
Speaking of priest, you, youmentioned a word, I dunno if you
wanna, you got some papers here.

(01:24:01):
I wanna give you an opportunityto, I don't know if you had
something on your mind youwanted to share, but priest, you
mentioned a word earlier,Shamar, if I'm mistaken.
Uhhuh?
Yeah.
I dunno if you wanna share alittle bit about that or
anything else that got placed onyour heart, man.
Oh, the shamar.
Oh, that came from a post, um,from my.
From my, uh, from my coaching,right.
Do a, a faith-basedChrist-centered coaching program

(01:24:23):
for Christian men.
We ain't even go down that roadyet, man.
We, oh, we, we gotta, we gottago right now.
Now you gotta talk about it.
Okay.
So is that, is that the workoutthing you're talking about?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, go ahead.
It's, it's, it's Christian basedfitness coaching, uh, which God
put on my heart.
So, coming home from prison, Itold you I was young, I was
overweight, I was sickly.
Uh, the drugs completelydestroyed my body.

(01:24:44):
I watched my dad die at 57.
I knew I needed to change, but Icouldn't.
Right?
I gave my life to Christ andstarted with little workouts in
the, in the prison cell, youknow, at, at, at my heaviest, I
was 200 pounds.
When I got locked up, I was overover 200 pounds.
You know, I say 200 pounds isjust shame and guilt, uh,

(01:25:06):
addicted to everything and sugarof all things.
And so coming home, I knew Ineeded to change and I knew I
needed to take care of my bodyand restore my temple, right?
Because the Bible says oneCorinthians six, 19 and 20 says
that your body is a temple ofthe Holy Spirit.
You are not of your own.
You were bought with a price.
And Romans 12, one says, tooffer your body as a living

(01:25:28):
sacrifice to God.
Holy and pleasing for this isyour spiritual worship, right?
So our physical is important.
Amen.
As Christian, right?
Unfortunately, there's likethis.
Gnosticism in the church todaywhere it's like, oh, as long as
you're spiritual, your bodydon't matter.
But that couldn't be furtherfrom the truth.
Right?
Especially as men, because we'resupposed to provide and protect

(01:25:50):
for our families.
And I tell guys, how can youprovide and protect if, if you
lose your breath walking up aflight of stairs?
Right?
Shouldn't be that way.
Right.
And so I know because Iexperienced it firsthand and I
made the decision to take myhealth very seriously.
So when I came home from prison,dude.
I went and I got certified as apersonal fitness trainer.

(01:26:11):
Uh, I got certified in weightloss management.
I got certified in nutrition.
I even got certified.
Now are these classes you wentto school for?
This how did, uh, AmericanCouncil of Exercise.
Okay.
Uh, it's a, it's a certificationthrough the American Council of
Exercise.
So it is, it is classes, it'sonline classes.
Alright.
Uh, and so I got certified forall these things.
I started working at a gym for awhile.

(01:26:32):
I was doing in-person training.
Uh, it just by, at that time,you know, I wasn't paying the
bills.
I was a single dad, so I neededsomething more stable.
Uh, uh, online fitness coachingwasn't even a thing yet.
Uh, so, you know, I was justworking a regular job and so it
wasn't until full circle I gotall these certifications, uh,

(01:26:53):
and I ended up, uh, gettingmarried to my wife, you know, in
2023.
Then right around that time, Godput it on my heart because I
seen a need in the church.
I seen that men were strugglingsilently with these weight
problems, with this lack ofenergy, low performance.
I talk to guys all the time thatare just battling so many issues

(01:27:16):
because of their weight, youknow, and so like, God put it on
my heart and he said.
You, you need to do somethingabout this, you know?
And so, you know, I went aheadand I found I founded VE Virtue
Fitness, uh, which is afaith-based, Christ-centered
weight loss program that helpsmen, uh, lose weight, reclaim

(01:27:37):
their energy, restore theirtemple, and become fit
discipline disciples.
The Jesus Amen.
Yeah.
You, you got it right there.
Wrong to strong, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Strong.
Strong in spirit and strong inbody.
Right.
Amen.
It's very important in thechurch, scripture tells us, like
I said, with the two scripturesthat I mentioned, but it's,

(01:27:59):
it's, it's because there's alack also of discipline and
self-control, right.
Like if we can't control whatwe're consuming in our bodies,
it's another form of addiction.
Yeah.
Maybe not as prevalent as theheroine and stuff, you know, but
there's a saying, and it wasTheodore Roosevelt.
Oh, Teddy Roosevelt.
The, the president, I dunno ifyou guys are familiar with Teddy

(01:28:20):
Roosevelt.
He was a powerful Christian,powerful Christian, uh, and he,
and I believe it was him thatsaid, all attainable health is
duty.
All avoidable sickness is sin.
So what he's saying is, is thatit's our duty to attain the best
health as Christians, right?
And it's our duty to avoid anysickness by the way we treat our

(01:28:45):
bodies, right?
Because if we're bringing onchronic illness and disease
because of bad eating habits orsedentary lifestyle, then that's
taking years off of our life,right?
Am I, which essentially is.
Not allowing us to fulfill God'scommand.

(01:29:07):
And so your health and wellnessand longevity is very, very
important.
So as Christians, Jesus says, tobe perfect for your heavenly
Father is perfect, right?
So we're supposed to strive forexcellence, right?
That's what virtue is.
Virtue is moral excellence,right?
And virility, well, virilitycomes from the same root word,

(01:29:28):
which is ver in in, in, um, inRoman.
And what that means.
It's the base word for male orfor strength, right?
And so co, it's been alwayscommonly known that
characteristics of man are to bestrong, physically, strong,
spiritually, and strong morally.
Mm-hmm.
Right.

(01:29:49):
We have to be strong in allthree of those areas.
Those are common characteristicsof men throughout the ages.
We've just lost that concept.
And so founding Vero VirtueFitness is a way to bring that
back to light, right?
And to coach men so that theycan put forth the best version
of themselves to build thekingdom, right?
So I say is that we're, we'remolding and shaping strong men

(01:30:12):
of God to build the kingdom ofGod for the glory of God.
Amen.
Now, so somebody hears, there'syour training that you offer.
Is that in person?
Is that online?
How, how does that look?
It's a, it's a completely onlinetraining.
Um, so we, we dive into threepillars.
The problem with in-persontraining is that you go to the

(01:30:32):
gym and your trainer gives youthe workout, right?
And you're, oh, yeah, I feelgood, good workout.
But then you leave the gym andthen you go out and eat like
trash for the rest of the week,right?
You don't do anything else.
Your trainer has no contact withyou at all.
Um, so you're not making anygains.
You're not making any progress.

(01:30:53):
You're just stuck in this cycle.
Right?
But our, our program is aone-on-one coaching program
where I counsel you in the threedifferent pillars that we call
of our program, the, the, um,nutrition pillar.
Right?
Because honestly, weight loss isabout, is more about what, what
you eat than how much you train,right.

(01:31:15):
Saying, we say, you can'tout-train a bad diet, right?
You can't out-train a bad diet.
You know that, right?
If you're eating like trash,you're, you're not gonna see no
weight loss, right?
Right.
And so nutrition is one of thepillars and we work side by side
one-on-one with our clients tomake sure that their nutrition
is dialed in into a biblicalapproach.
Right?
It's a biblical approach to fatloss rooted in scripture, right?

(01:31:39):
Uh, God designed us to eat freshfruit, fresh vegetables, fresh
meats, right?
I say single ingredient foods.
I say eat foods that spoil.
If you're shopping, if the foodthat you're eating has a shelf
life of like five to 10 years,you know what I'm saying, then
maybe you shouldn't be eatingit.
If you, if you turn around theingredient list and it's got a

(01:32:00):
bunch of ingredients that youcan't even pronounce, maybe you
shouldn't be putting that inyour body.
Right.
Um, so we go back to God'sdesign for nutrition, and then
we put together trainingprograms for our clients
specific to their needs, totheir schedules and to their
situations.
And most importantly is theaccountability, right?
The Bible says, uh, Proverbs 2717, iron sharpens iron, so one

(01:32:22):
man sharpens another.
Right?
And so.
With me, with my experience,right?
With my certifications.
Like I've been there, I'vewalked the road, I've helped men
through this, through the weightloss.
And so, you know, sometimes youneed that accountability.
You need somebody that's on youand behind you, right?
Think about it in your spirituallife.
I tell guys what happens.
Don't isolate yourself.

(01:32:43):
Yeah, because sin comes andknocking, right?
There's a proverb that says thathe who isolates himself seeks
his own desires.
That's a Proverbs 18 one, Ithink.
Right?
So in isolation, we, we can'taccomplish much.
Right?
And so part of the biggest part,biggest pillar of the program is
the accountability is theone-on-one accountability,
sharpening each other in orderfor, uh, our, our, our people to

(01:33:06):
accomplish their results, ourclients.
Hmm.
Now, now.
I know you mentioned like theone-on-one.
Now, do you have like acommunity, like a, are people
able like to comment with oneanother there or No, just, yeah,
so we're, we're working onbuilding out a community, you
know, because that's importantas well, right?
We want our, our, our clients tohave that interaction with each,
each other.

(01:33:27):
So yeah, we're, we're, we'regetting there.
You know, we've, like I said,2023, I made the shift from, you
know, where I was working atbefore a nonprofit.
I got married, I was working atthe nonprofit in Chicago because
I wanted to give back to thecommunity, but then God brought
me to this, uh, more recently,so, so, you know, we launched

(01:33:49):
Bureau Virtual Fitness about sixmonths ago now, is this your
full-time job now?
Yes.
Okay.
Full-time job.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Full-time job.
I'm in it, bro.
I'm in it for the Lord.
You know, like we talked aboutin the beginning.
This is kingdom business, youknow?
Amen.
Amen.
I truly believe that this iswhere God has called me to be.
And, you know, we've helped somany men, uh, overcome

(01:34:09):
addiction, build discipline, uh,build self-control, develop
eating habits, break emotionaleating habits, and develop, uh,
proper eating habits that, uh,glorify God, lose the weight.
It's just so much, it's so muchmore than just weight loss.
You know, when, when, when guyssee the weight come off.
It's like, man, if I can dothis, what else can I do?

(01:34:32):
Right.
Because you have this mindsetthat you're like so defeated and
that's the enemy.
Yeah.
That's the enemy.
Keeping you in this defeated,uncertain mindset that this is
the way I'm always gonna be.
I always struggle with this.
Exactly.
I'm gonna stay there.
Oh, my dad was like this.
It's in my family.
No, you can change.
Yeah.
Mark 9 23.
Jesus says all things arepossible for him who believes.

(01:34:54):
Amen.
You know, I, could I ask yousomething?
I know you mentioned thespiritual, the physical, um,
something happens when you workout too with the mind.
Like I notice like when I, whenI, when I'm not, I'm, I'm not
saying I do it all the time, butwhen I do, I seen that set.
You got over there, man.
He's got, damn, the weight setis, oh yeah.
Yeah.
That was, I was telling hisbrother.
I, I, I know I've shared this onbefore, before I started the

(01:35:16):
podcast, I had the ministry inmy home workout in the Word on
Wednesdays.
We came here, worked out, andthen we did the Bible.
So, man, I, I love what you'redoing and, and I know that
that's a God thing.
He definitely wants to do that.
But the mind, and when somebodyworks out, I notice that man my
creativity, I think, I thinkthat that's the word that comes
to mind is just more active man.
And I find myself, I feel.

(01:35:39):
That it's not just my mind, butI'm more, I don't know, alert to
the Holy Spirit man.
I start receiving like Godideas.
Yeah.
And it gives me, well, 100%exercise is a powerful stimulus.
Uh, it's mental clarity, um, toyour consciousness.
Right.
Um.
When you work out your, yourbrain, your body releases
neurochemicals, calledendorphins, right?

(01:36:01):
And those are feel goodchemicals.
They make you feel good.
So, uh, it's, it's, it's astimulus, which is a stressor,
right?
'cause working out is astressor.
But it ultimately resolves in,you know, the chemicals that
soothe the body, that heal thebody that make you feel good.
It's, it's because we weredesigned, God designed us to
move.

(01:36:21):
It's only till fairly recentthat we, because of
industrialization and technologythat.
Man has moved indoors to asedentary lifestyle, uh, without
the sun, you know.
Um, but people ask me, did, did,did the apo, the apostles didn't
work out like they, they, theydidn't work out'cause they
didn't have to go to a gymbecause their, their, their

(01:36:42):
daily lifestyle involvedrigorous physical activity.
Jesus was a carpenter.
Okay.
Uh, Paul was a tent maker.
The apostles were fishermen.
Okay?
These were rigorous activitiesthat were done daily.
I read a book and it talks abouthow Jesus, how Jesus survived.
Um, you know, the beating thathe took, the lashing, then the

(01:37:05):
beating, and then carrying this150 pound cross, uh, up the hill
up Calvary for almost a mile.
And how for him to be able to dothat and withstand so much
punishment and have all thatenergy, he had to have been in
very peak good physical health.
You know what I'm saying?

(01:37:26):
To withstand that muchpunishment.
You know, Jesus was fit.
In other words, amen.
Jesus was fit.
That's the only way he couldhave, uh, withstood such a
beating and then carrying upthat 150 pound cross, almost a
mile uphill.
Come on brother.
Jesus was fit.
I've never seen it that way, butthat, that is a good, uh, yeah.
Per and so it's, I perspectives.

(01:37:47):
It's very important for us asmen, providers and protectors of
our families to make sure thatwe're putting out a product.
'cause your body is a temple,right?
Your body is a product.
And, and so like, you want to doyour best with what God has
given you.
Right?
And so.
That's the emphasis on, on thephysical.

(01:38:07):
And that's why I founded, uh,the fitness program.
And, and that's why I'm doingwhat I do now.
Amen.
Where, where, where could peoplego to to hear about this?
Yeah, so, uh, you could go tovero virtue fitness.com.
I'm known on social media as thefit Christian dad, like we
talked about.
Should I do the pushups now?
Since you're gonna break my, mylittle, my little desk right

(01:38:29):
here, man.
But, uh, you know my brother, Iknow earlier you mentioned nine
11.
It's nine 11, man.
I wanna be respectful of yourtime, you know, but, uh, be, be
before that.
I know you got some papers, Iknow there's something you
wanted to touch on, basically.
Any final words, any messagethat you wanna share with the
listeners before we go?
Um, you know, uh, just, God hasbrought me so far, Omar, you

(01:38:51):
know, and he's done so manythings in my life, you know, and
I, I truly believe we're, we'reliving in a time.
Where revival is happening.
I see it in the streets ofChicago.
We were just at Archer Park theother day, uh, celebrating, uh,
the championship of a softballleague, the new life softball

(01:39:12):
league.
And we broke out in a prayercircle afterwards where a Muslim
man who was just invited thereby someone who was attending God
in the prayer circle and said hewanted to learn more about
Jesus.
And bowed his knees beforeJesus.
And it's just like, God.
That's just one example.
A small, like the Yeah.
The baptisms that are happening,guys are getting baptized in

(01:39:32):
Lake Michigan, right?
Uh, the evangelism we see whenwe are on the streets of
Chicago.
Uh, we went to Gay Pride.
We went to gay Pride, uh, topreach the gospel and love,
right?
Because we go everywhere or wego everywhere.
God calls us, you know, and Ihad a person reach out to me.
Uh, interested in my fitnesscoaching because he saw me

(01:39:53):
preaching at Gay Pride and hesaid, I came from that
lifestyle, you know, uh, and Iknow the spiritual warfare
happening there.
He said, but I like the way youguys did it.
You did it in love.
You just went out there in love.
You didn't condemn, you didn'ttell people they were going to
hell.
And I said, of course not,because we love these people.
Right.

(01:40:14):
Jesus says he looked on the flaxand had compassion on them
because they were like sheepwithout a shepherd.
Uh, people are lost.
Then people are lost.
You were lost.
I was lost.
But now I'm found.
Right?
And so part of our ministry, orpart of our purpose now as
Christians, is to be the light.

(01:40:35):
Is to be the light in all theworld.
And just like you said, you saidit, man, you, you, you can.
You can be an image bearer ofChrist in whatever you do, right
at whatever your, your job titleis.
Uh, whatever it is that you dofor a living, wherever you're
at, uh, you can be the light.
And if Christians would trulyunderstand that, like, man, we

(01:40:57):
would take Chicago over forJesus 100%.
So, you know, that's my call toaction.
That's my call to action.
Let's get bold for Christ.
I hope you know my story.
Resonated with some people.
Uh, I hope they could see mypassion for Christ.
And I hope some of that passion,you know, um, stirs them, uh,

(01:41:19):
'cause the Bible says to stireach other to good works.
Stirs them to do the same, to goout and share the gospel.
Uh, if you're interested injoining our ministry, Chicago
Evangelism, reach out to me,send me a DM, or email us at
chicago evangelism@gmail.com ifyou're interested in, uh, my
faith-based Christ-centeredweight loss program.

(01:41:42):
Go to vero virtue fitness.com orfollow me, send me a DM at Fit
Christian dead on Facebook andsocial media and Facebook and
Instagram.
Hey.
Amen.
Amen.
Brother.
Thanks for sharing all that.
Could you close us out in theprayer?
Oh, of course.
Amen.
And thank you, brother.
Bye.
Oh, no, no, brother.
No, for sure man.

(01:42:02):
You brother.
Pleasure.
You know what I believe in, indivine connections, man.
That's all it's been, man.
It's like, man, just steppingout in faith and God's like been
putting pieces together and Iknow this is just the beginning,
brother.
Like, I, I think I told you eventhat day when you mentioned the
barbershop, I like, man, I wouldlove to go over there, maybe get
skate, you know, sit in on that,maybe, you know, take some

(01:42:24):
footage, you know?
Yeah.
And that, that would be awesomefor, for people to see, man,
that you could, you could holdand like you mentioned, guys
would be more comfortable in asetting like that than stepping
foot in a church.
Yeah.
Because guys go to thebarbershop to talk, man.
Hundred percent.
They go there, they talk abouttheir struggles with their
relationships, and the, I thinkone of the best mini ministry

(01:42:47):
opportunities is as a barberhundred, is you get to hear
people.
And like you said, you're intheir ear.
Mm-hmm.
And even if you're just mandropping a seed, man, you know,
you ain't got hit'em full forcedepending on how the Holy Spirit
leads you.
Yeah.
Give him some love, be in ear tolisten to him and man, and
little by little point him toChrist, man.
But I, I, I, I love.
To hear what's happening, likein a setting like that.

(01:43:07):
Man, it's beautiful.
It's a beautiful thing.
And that barbershop, if anyone'sinterested in that, it's Tuesday
nights at 7:00 PM Wall StreetBarbershop.
You can send me a DM on socialmedia, uh, to learn more.
Hey, man, man, I definitely, I'mgonna put out all all the, the
links.
Yes, please.
Uh, to, to both the ministry oryour business, and to this, uh,
barbershop.

(01:43:28):
They'll definitely be, uh, in,in the, in the notes.
There'll be links.
You just click on there and I'lltake you to all that.
But yeah, brother, if youwouldn't mind closing this out.
No prayer, man.
Yeah.
Uh, Lord, heavenly Father, wejust come before you today and
praise and honor and glory foryou are God and there is no
other.
You are the alpha, the omega,uh, the beginning and the end.
Lord, you are the God whodeclares, uh, the end from the

(01:43:50):
beginning.
You are of our salvation Lord.
And you, we take refuge and you,we take shelter and you we find
hope.
Lord, our lips can never ceaseto praise you.
And I just thank you for theopportunity here to share with
Brother Omar and the wrong tostrong podcast Lord.
Um, bless him and his endeavorswith this podcast.
Lord may reach people, Lord, uh,may, may the testimonies Lord,

(01:44:13):
uh, resonate with people anddraw people to you Lord, and
advance the kingdom of God.
Lord, that is our purpose, Lord,to advance the kingdom of God,
to advance the gospel, Lord.
So whatever.
Capacity, Lord.
However you use us, Lord use us.
We are willing and we areobedient.
Lord, I just pray Lord God, foryou to bless his ministry.

(01:44:34):
Lord bless this time to thankyou for him Lord, and I just
pray for our city of Chicago.
Lord, that you can continue,Lord, uh, what you're doing in
this city.
Revival is happening.
People are coming to Christ indroves.
The youth are seeking God, LordGod.
Grown men are bowing their kneebefore you, Lord God.
Muslims are coming to Christ,Lord, and so much more that is

(01:44:57):
happening in this city, Lord.
So I pray that the good news canbe proclaimed from the rooftops,
Lord.
I pray, Lord God, that moreChristians get stirred up to be
evangelists, to share thegospel, Lord, that we take over
this city and we claim Chicagofor Jesus, Lord.
So I thank you that you're usingme, brother Omar, uh, continue

(01:45:18):
to use us.
In the mighty name of JesusChrist we pray.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Brother man, thank you forsharing your story with us.
Thank you for being on here,man.
Pleasure.
Look, look forward to whateverelse God's gonna be doing.
But with that we're gonna wrapup.
Matthew four 16 reads, thepeople who sat in darkness have
seen a great light, and uponthose who sat in the region and

(01:45:40):
shadow of death light has dawnedalongside my guest, Salvador
Torres am Omar Calvio, and we'vegone from wrong to strong.

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