"Overcoming Addiction & Helping Others Do The Same" w/ Bret Lawrence

Episode Transcript
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Bret (00:00):
I went on that six week bender and my liver shut down on
me.
And when that happened, my heartstopped and I went into cardiac
arrest.
And, I was at my buddy's house,man, he didn't know what to do,
man.
He started to do CPR on me, buthe didn't know he needed to turn
me over on my side.
'cause I was, I was aspirated,and while he was doing CPR and

(00:20):
blowing into my mouth, he waspushing that vomit back down
into, and I went without oxygen.
Nobody knows how long I wentwithout, but it was long enough
to where I, I use a walker now.
I can use a cane on good days.
But I don't walk normal, man.
Like I was in a bed for sixmonths, bro.
For six months I had to havethese beautiful nurses wipe my
butt for me.

(00:40):
You wanna talk about humbling,you know what I'm saying?
That's a humbling experience,bro.
When you can't wipe your ownbutt and you gotta have people
do it for you.
As soon as I was able to walkafter six months, bro, I went
right back to the Dope Houseman.
I showed up at the dope housewith my walker and started
getting high again, bro.
I mean, dude, it was so bad,bro.

(01:01):
I would be sitting out in frontof the trap house, i, I would be
smoking crack and I would beshaking so bad that I couldn't
even get out of the car and walkin by myself with my walker.
They literally had to carry mein the crack house.
Four guys.
They would get under each armand under each leg, and they
would carry me into the crackhouse.
They would put the crack pipe inmy mouth, load the crack pipe

(01:23):
for me, and I, and they wouldlight it for me while I smoked
it, bro.
You know what I'm saying?
Because I couldn't do it on myown, man.
You know?
I mean, that's, that's what itwas like for me, bro,

(01:48):
From the city of Chicago, a citymost recently known for its
crime and violence.
On this podcast, we will besharing stories of redemption
from individuals raised in thetough streets of Chicago and
from around the country.
Some of them were gang members,drug dealers, incarcerated
victims, and perpetrators ofviolence.

(02:09):
Listen to my guests as theyshare their experiences,
struggles, trauma, but also thestrength, hope, faith and
perseverance, these havedeveloped in them to keep
pushing and moving forward inlife.
Tune in to hear how their liveshave gone from darkness to light
and from wrong to strong.

(02:30):
Hello everyone, and welcome toanother episode of From Wrong to
Strong Podcast.
Uh, thank you for joining us.
Uh, today.
I got my guest.
His name is Brett Lawrence.
Uh, I just met this brotherrecently.
Uh, shout out to Mike, uh,Petrovic.
Mike was on this podcast, mansome months ago, um, that I'm
gonna put a link to hisinterview.
Definitely gotta check it out.

(02:51):
I believe I, I titled it the,the Ripple Effect.
Uh, so shout, uh, shout out toMike, uh, for, connecting me
with his brother.
Uh, so I'd like to welcome BrettLawrence to the podcast.
Thank you man.
Good to be here, brother.
I appreciate you having me on.

Omar (03:04):
Oh, no, for, for, for for sure, man.
Uh, you know, I was talking toMike, uh, he sent me, I believe
it started through a text like,Hey man, I got this brother.
You definitely, I guess, youknow, you shared your story with
him.
I don't know exactly how, howthat went with, with, uh, you
two guys, but like, man, you,you got, uh, definitely talk to
his brother.
He got awesome testimony.
So, you know, we reached out,uh, we connected, I don't know
if it was text or um, uh,Facebook.

(03:25):
Yeah.
Uh, but, but here you are,brother.
So I'm, I'm glad that you'rehere.
Yeah.
And, and I'm interested to, tohear your stories.
This is actually, uh, the firstconversation that we're having.
So I, I'm gonna be learning hisstory, just, uh, right along
with the, with the viewers, youknow, so I'm, I'm, I'm excited
to get into your story, brother.

Bret (03:42):
Alright.
Thank you man.
I appreciate it, man.
Thanks.
Thank you again for having meon, man.

Omar (03:46):
Yeah, for sure.
I, brother, you know, can youtell us, uh, um, what, what part
of the country did you grow upin?
Uh, if you could describe thatarea, you know, in your early
years and then, uh, tell us how,how was life for you, you know,
when, when, when you were young?

Bret (03:59):
Yeah, so.
Um, you know, I've, I've seen,I've seen some of your, uh,
podcasts, man, and, um, youknow, I, my diff my story's just
a little bit different, man.
Um, as far as like the earlyyears go, uh, I didn't grow up,
uh, in Chicago or, um, in, youknow, in a gang festing
neighborhood or, you know what Imean?
Like, I grew up about, uh,probably about like 30 miles

(04:19):
from Gary in between Gary andMichigan City.
And, um, a little, little bittytown man.
A little, little country townman.
Um, tiny neighborhood.
There was probably about ahundred, probably about two, 300
people in this neighborhood ofmine.
But it was out in the middle ofnowhere, man.
It was just this neighborhoodout there, man.
And, um, you know, I grew upwith kids.

(04:41):
I grew up, so first of all, man,I grew up with, I grew up with
my mom and dad up until I waslike about five years old.
My dad was a raging alcoholic.
He was violent and I.
Um, he'd beat my mom up andstuff and you know, he would
take it out on my older sister.
I got an older sister, she'sseven years older than me.
Um, he would, he would like, hewould physically abuse her, but

(05:05):
he would emotionally andmentally abuse her.
But he would physically beat mymom.
And I was really small, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Because I'm seven years youngerthan my sister.
So by the time he left, I thinkI was like five years old.
But, so he never really, Idon't, he never really like beat
me up, but I remember, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Being scared to death of him,man.
And um, you know, I justremember one of the earliest

(05:27):
memories I have of God is, is,you know, I don't know how old I
was, four or five or something,man.
And I don't even know how I knewabout God.
'cause we didn't go to church,man.
God wasn't talked about in thehouse.
We didn't go to church.
Like, I don't know if I heardabout it from like the
neighborhood kids.
But, you know, I don't know,man.
I've read, I've read some thingsover the years, man, that you

(05:48):
know, that God, you know, likeGod is in us, man from the start
man.
And um, you know, we all havethis idea of God, man, we've all
got this like God size hole inour hearts, man, that that can
only be filled by him.
So I remember sitting on my, theedge of my bed as a young kid,
man, begging God man to, um, tohelp us man.

(06:08):
Um, you know, like save us frommy dad.
And I remember saying to God at,at that age, God, I don't care
what I have to go through, Ijust wanna be with you.
I remember saying that to him ata young age like that man, that.
I like, I knew I was gonna dieone day and I don't know how I
knew about death and all ofthese things, man.
But it was in me, man.
I remember.

(06:29):
And I just begged him, God, Idon't care what I have to go
through, I just wanna be withyou, man.
And um, so, you know, my dadleft.
He ended up getting divorced andmy mom was a single mom man.
So that led me to, um, you know,running around out in the
neighborhood, you know, allhours and days of the night.
I had no supervision.
I did what I wanted, when Iwanted, how I wanted.

(06:50):
Um, my mom, you know, was livingher life.
And when I was young, I didn'tunderstand it, but I do today,
now that I'm older, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Like, she was living her life,man.
She had things that she wantedto do and she had two young kids
and she did the best that shecould with us, man.
But she left.
She left me alone a lot.
Like my sister, like I said, wasseven years older than me.

(07:10):
So by the time I got up to beabout 8, 9, 10, 11 years old, my
sister's already 16, 17, 18years old.
She's out doing her thing, man.
So I'm at home alone a lot, youknow what I'm saying?
And I got my friends over, man,and we're just doing whatever we
want, man.
And um, so I, I didn't learn anydiscipline when I was growing
up, man.
Um, you know, like I said, I didwhat I wanted, man.

(07:33):
And, um, you know, after my dadleft, man, it, it, I, I was full
of fear after that, man.
I remember when my dad walked meto first grade, man, it was like
one of the last times I saw him,he walked me into first grade
and he was holding my hand.
And I remember walking down thehallway with him and walking
into this class and thinkinglike, I felt like superman.

(07:56):
I had my dad with me.
I felt like nobody could touchme, man.
So, like when he left, man, Iain't, it really destroyed me,
man.
Um.
You know, because he was, hewas, even though he was violent
and like, he, I, he was my dad,you know what I mean?
I loved him.
I wanted that, I wanted thatrelationship with him.
I needed it.

(08:16):
And, um, so when he left, man,it just instilled me with a lot
of fear, man.
I, I got a really bad anxietywhen I was young.
Started biting my nails, startedacting out, um, in anger at kids
towards school and getting intoa lot of fights.
Uh, I didn't know how to likerelease that.
I didn't know how to releasethis in a, in a healthy way, you

(08:37):
know, my anger and, and myconfusion on why, you know what
I'm saying?
Like, you know, I know today whyhe left.
But back then I didn't, I didn'tknow, you

Omar (08:47):
know.
Brother, could I ask you, like,during this time that your dad
left, uh, did any other likemale figures come into your
life?
Did you have, uh, I guess, youknow, dad's not around no more.
Did you have any uncles, anybodythat maybe try to pour into you
or, you know, give you some sortof a.
Like, uh, what do you call it?
Like, um, somebody to look upto, you know, mentor, anything
like that during those years or?
Yeah,

Bret (09:08):
so that's a good question, man.
Uh, my sister had a boyfriend,um, while she was junior, senior
in high school, and he was a fewold, few years older in her,
like, in his early twenties.
And he was really good with me,man.
He used to take me to mybaseball games.
He had a, you know, he had acrotch rocket man, a ZX 10 when
they first came out.

(09:28):
And he used to take, like, hewas my big brother, man.
And, um, it, it's a greatquestion, man, because, you
know, my dad left right, wellafter they broke up and he left,
you know what I'm saying?
Like, I took that hard, right?
Because, you know, I, I had, Ihad like latched onto him for a,
for that, for that male, thatolder male, positive male role

(09:49):
model that I was looking for inmy life.
I latched onto him.
And when he was gone, it hurtme, I think more than it hurt
her.
Okay.
Um, and then my mom, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Like she had a boyfriend.
Um, and, and I hated him atfirst, you know what I'm saying?
Because I was like, you ain't mydad.
You can't tell me what to do.
But then he was around for a fewyears and I started to latch

(10:12):
onto him.
Right.
And my mom broke up with him,and he was gone, and she got a
new guy come in, right?
Well, in between him, she hadseveral guys coming in and out.
Right.
And I ne I never even gave thema chance, you know what I'm
saying?
But that one, I was, I wasstarting to, I was starting to
latch onto him, and then he wasgone.
So fast forward, you know whatI'm saying?

(10:32):
My mom gets married, you know,to this guy, man.
And by that time, man, I didn'ttrust, I didn't trust any, I
didn't trust him.
I, I thought he was gonna leavetoo.
Right?
So I never even gave him achance at all.
And he ended up being my stepdadfor the next 30 years.
And it was, it was a, it was atumultuous time between him and
I because I was never, neverable to like let him in.

(10:54):

Omar (10:56):
It, it, but, but it makes sense though, man.
'cause you know, you latched on,let's say to your dad and then
to this other guy that youthought was gonna be be around,
and then you're like, man,forget that.
I ain't gonna put my, my trustor not, not, not even that, like
my love.
Yeah.
I, I, I believe that thathappens.
Like, you know, like we, weharden ourselves so that we
won't get hurt, but at the sametime, we won't allow someone to

(11:17):
come in who maybe genuinelywants to connect with us, but by
then we're already in a sense,like damaged goods, you could
say.
Right?

Bret (11:24):
Yeah, no doubt, man.
Um, because like I said, man, hewas my stepdad for the next 30
years and he was the one thatstuck around man.
And we could never have arelationship, man, because my
heart was so hardened.
And then, you know, as life wenton, bro.
Um, so I wanna say one thingthough, that my boyfriend,
before he left, man, he, what hedid do was he connected me with

(11:48):
the church, uh, as I got older.
And he, he led, he led me to thepastor.
Uh, that, you know what I'msaying?
Like, he led me to Christ Man.

Omar (11:57):
Hmm.

Bret (11:57):
And like, I got saved when I was like 12 years old.
Um, and so, so that was the,that was the one good thing,
man, that that guy he, that hedid for me, man.
Wow.
Yeah,

Omar (12:09):
man.
So let me ask you about that.
At 12 years old, like, like, uh,how long were you going to
church?
And I know you said God saved.
What was that experience likefor you back then?

Bret (12:18):
So, yeah, I was, uh, so like I said, man, I've always
believed in God, man.
I've always known that there wasa God.
And, um, you know, but I wasn't,I wasn't living a godly
lifestyle at all, man.
Um, I, how that happened was,you know what I'm saying?
Like, I, he introduced me tothis family.
They were like some of the bestpeople I know to this day.

(12:40):
Um, and they used to let me comeover.
Um, you know,'cause they knewthat, they knew my situation
that, you know, I, my mom wasn'taround a lot.
And um,'cause this was beforeshe got married.
Um.
And so they would let me comeover there and stay on the
weekends, you know?
Um, and, you know, I would havelike some healthy people to be
around and stuff.

(13:00):
And, and they had a really nicehouse and a really nice
neighborhood.
And, um, so I used to love goingover there, man.
They had younger sons man thatwere, they were older than me,
but, you know, they, they tooktime to like, you know, spend
time with me.
They played basketball with me.
We'd go to baseball games, youknow, they did healthy things
with me.
And, um, so I started going tochurch with them, and it was a

(13:22):
non-denominational church and,you know, it was a, it was just,
you know, good, healthyChristian people, man.
And, um, so yeah, he, he broughtme to the Lord, man.
I, uh, I, uh, I, you know, heasked me if, you know, I, he's
like, you know, I wanna, I toldhim, I think he asked me.
I don't know if I said that Iwanted to be saved, but you

(13:42):
know.
We, we, we, uh, we prayed in hisoffice.
We got down on our knees, man.
And, and I, and I accept, youknow what I mean?
Like, I, I told Jesus that Iloved him and that I wanted him
to be the Lord of my life.
And, you know what I mean?
Like, so I did, I went throughthe motions, right?
And I did mean it.
It's not that I didn't mean it,it's just that I didn't, so like
I've learned today, man, thatI'm not sure that's even in the

(14:05):
Bible, that we have to ask Jesusinto our art man.
I, I think it says repent andbelief.
And I didn't do that.
I mean, I believed, but I didn'trepent.
You know what I mean?
Okay.
I was young, dude.
I was still, because when I leftthere and I went back home, I
had no positiveness in my life,man.
I was doing what I wanted to do,you know?

Omar (14:27):
Gotcha.
Okay.
So, you know, you're 12, um,like you said, things are still
kind of rough at home.
So how do your teenage yearslook?
Anythings significant thathappens during those years?

Bret (14:39):
So, man, so before I became a teenager, man, uh, do
you remember those, uh, thosedrug commercials back in the
day?
Uh, just say no.
And this is your brain on drugs

Omar (14:48):
with the fried egg.
What I remember is the friedegg,

Bret (14:51):
so that, that, that commercial specifically with the
frying egg.
I, uh, I was, I was walkingthrough my living room one day
and that commercial was on thetv, and I was like, I said, man,
you know, however, however old Iwas when those commercials were
out, I was born in 76.
I was young.
Yeah.
And I know what drugs were,there were no drugs out there,
man, except for like, peoplewere smoking weed and stuff, but

(15:13):
there were no, no heroin orcrack cocaine or nothing like
that, man.
And, um, but I, I heard thatcommercial man, and I, and I
was, as I was walking by the tv,bro, I can't tell you what
happened, but something happenedand I don't know if it was like
a, a spirit or something, anevil spirit or something.
I knew at that moment that I wasgonna be a dope fiend.

(15:36):
I knew I was gonna be a heroinaddict.

Omar (15:38):
How old do you think you were around this time?

Bret (15:40):
Ah, man.
You know, I was probably like10.

Omar (15:43):
Hmm.

Bret (15:44):
Yeah.

Omar (15:44):
Gotcha.
Yo,

Bret (15:45):
I can't explain it to you, but I remember it and I remember
something, man.
Like I knew that my life wasgonna be very hard going
forward.

Omar (15:56):
Wow.
You, you know what's crazy that,that, that commercial ended up
being counterproductive in asense, man.
Yeah.
And maybe even though they'vebanted for good, the enemy, uh,
twisted that man, like you said,it could have been spiritual and
in a sense, you know?

Bret (16:09):
Yeah, because,

Omar (16:10):
cause now, um, now, now that I've realized, you know,
that as I've talked to people,uh, I, I've interviewed, um, the
head of the DEA and he wastalking about how, um, how these
drug lords, uh, they, they, uh,basically pray over their drugs,
man.
They have like witch doctors andall this to pray over the drugs
to protect their shipments.
And he was, uh, sharing a storywhere, where they went, went

(16:32):
into a house, they raided thehouse and there was like a big
old statue or whatever saying itwas that they were praying to.
And he went to go move it.
And one of the other agentstold, Hey, hey man, don't touch
that.
Don't touch that.
And he's like, why not?
He's like, oh man, you know,that's a, that's an idol.
You know, that's one of theiridols.
You shouldn't touch it, man.
It got power.
He is like, man, my God is morepowerful than him.
'cause he was a believer.

(16:53):
He just threw that out the way.
But, you know, no, just yousharing that, that something
happened.
I believe him, man.
'cause there, there's a, Ibelieve there's a spiritual
significance even though drugsare like a, um, there've been a
natural sense, I guess, right?
Physical.
Yeah.
But I believe there's a, there'sdefinitely a spiritual component
to, uh, drugs.

Bret (17:10):
Oh, absolutely.
I, and I, I know that to be truenow.
Um, after what I've beenthrough, um, it's absolutely a
spiritual melody, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, um.
Uh, I, I know that for a fact,man.
Um, that's the only reason Igot, the only reason I'm sober
today, that I'm clean today,man, is because of Christ and

(17:31):
because he lifted the obsession,the spiritual obsession that I
had to use drugs and alcohol,man, you know?
Um, so yeah, I, I'm gonna, I'mgonna a hundred percent
agreement with you on that, man.

Omar (17:42):
Amen.
Alright, so you watch acommercial 10 years old now,
teenage years.
Well, what, what ends up?
Uh,

Bret (17:47):
yeah, so, well, you know, I didn't share, man, that, you
know, even before that, dude, Iwas introduced to pornography,
man.
Like, that was the one thing inthat neighborhood, man.
Everybody was having sex witheverybody, you know, uh,
youngsters and stuff like thatwas, that was like our drug man.
That was what, you know what I'msaying?
So, like pornography, I wasintroduced to at a very young
age, man, and started having sexat a very young age.

(18:10):
And that was my very firstaddiction.
Was, uh, was sex pornography.
Um, uh.
And I'm talking about youngsterbro.
Like, you know, I'd be sittingthere waiting on the school bus,
dude.
I mean, it was so bad, dude.
And I've never really shared,this is the first time I've
shared this in public.
But you know, it, you know, itis what it is.
It's my story, man.
You know, I would be like thebus, I could see the bus coming

(18:33):
around the corner, and I wouldbe in front of the TV while the
bus is coming to my housemasturbating, the pornography
before school, you know what I'msaying?
And the bus would be outside myhouse, honking its horn, but I
gotta finish first.
I'm not going nowhere until Ifinish.
And, um, that's what, that's howbad it was for me from a young

(18:54):
age as far as pornography wentand sex.
And I started, um, you know,manipulating females into having
sex with me and telling'em whatthey wanted to hear and, you
know what I mean?
They were just a means to anend.
They were, they were an object.
And, uh, I learned that from thepeople in my neighborhood and
from pornography.
And so I've always had thisreally skewed.

(19:15):
View of few of females and whatsex really is.
Um, and I did that throughouthigh school, bro.
I, I, me and my best friend saidthat, you know, we wanted, we
kept a black book and we wantedto have sex with a hundred
different females before weturned 18, and we did our best
to try and meet that goal.

(19:35):
Like, that was, that was thelike, and this is all spiritual
because we know what God saysabout sex.
So like, I'm just destroyingmyself, you know what I mean,
spiritually.
And um, so that's what I didthroughout high school until I,
until I got, or until I got intohigh school.
And once I started drinking andusing drugs, it was a rat dude.

(19:57):
Um, that became my guy.
Um, I was, I was a perfect, Iwas, I, I like to call it, I was
the perfect storm man, you know,because, and, and many people
are, you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not saying my story isany.
Worse than anybody else's or anyless than anybody else's.
But I was one of those guys thatwas, I was the perfect storm.
I had that in me, man, my, thataddictive personality.

(20:20):
Um, and you know, like I said,it started with the sex and the
pornography and um, you know, mydad ended up drinking himself to
death and his dad drank himselfto death.
And so I was next on the list,man.
And um, you know, I was a goodathlete when I was growing up.
Okay.
I was a good baseball player.
I was a pretty good footballplayer.

(20:40):
Um, but, you know, and that,that's really what kept me out a
lot of, a lot of trouble is Iwanted to stay out of trouble
group'cause I wanted to be ableto play baseball and football
and stuff, man.
Um, but all that went to thewayside, bro.
All that went down the drain,man.
Once I get, once I starteddrinking and using drugs, I was
a sophomore in high school whenI started drinking.

(21:01):
And, um, and that quickly ledinto smoking pot and, um.
Taking acid and just on down theline, you know what I mean?
The ecstasy and the cocaine tothe heroin.
And then two weeks into mysenior year, I had quit school
and I was a full blown, um, drugaddict, you know what I'm
saying?
And, uh, um, so that led, um,you know, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Omar (21:27):
No, I was gonna ask you d during that time, how, how are
you supporting your habit?
You know, I know you're, you'reworking.
What, what, what are you doingduring this time?

Bret (21:34):
Yeah, so I started selling weed.
Um, I, um, you know, I met, Imet people.
I, so I was a pretty, like, Iwas a pretty popular guy in high
school, man.
I had a lot of friends, okay.
And I knew a lot of people and Ididn't have any problem with me.
I was really outgoing.
I wasn't, you know, anintrovert.
I was, I knew a lot of people,man.
I didn't have any problemfinding what I wanted.

(21:54):
And, um, I started selling weedman to, to, to support my habit
and, you know, uh, basic.
And that's really what it was.
It, it was just supporting myparty life.
I wasn't making any money.
I wasn't in it.
You know, um, I was in it toparty and, um, and that, so
that's what I did, man.
And that all changed though,man.
Once I started, once I starteduh, doing, uh, once the cocaine

(22:19):
came around, man, um, I wasn't,I wasn't able to keep up with
that.
Like, I wasn't able to keep up.
I wasn't able to make enoughmoney to support my habit, you
know?
And so I, then I started kickingdoors in, um, and, and really it
was what, so my best friend, theone I was telling you about, he
died when I was 18, um, inDecember of 1995, or I'm sorry,

(22:43):
October of 95, he died.
And then in December of 95,that's when I started shooting
dope.
Um, I, I was kinda lost withouthim, man, because, you know, he
was the one dude that I hadaround me my whole life, man,
growing up.
Um, and so when he, when hedied, man, like I was, I was, I
was a wreck man.
Like that was my dude, bro.

(23:05):
I started shooting dope, man.
Like, it, it, when I did heroin,bro, it, it numbed me.
It took all the pain away, man.

Omar (23:12):
You know what, can I ask you?
Uh, h how, how did he pass?
I know he had, he was 18, soman, that was, that was really
young to, you know, get takenaway.
Yeah.

Bret (23:20):
I was 18, he was 20 and he was working for, he, he was
working for Stanley bro.
And then he had the van backedup to the house and they were
inside like cleaning the carpetsand the, the carbon monoxide
from the van killed him, bro.
He ended up, um, yeah, he satdown in the chair, I guess when
I was told from the guy that wasworking with him.

(23:42):
'cause the guy that was workingwith him survived.
And he said that he saw Chadsitting in chair and he thought
he was just taking a rest.
And, um, he goes upstairs to dohis thing.
He comes back down and Chad'sdead man.
So that there was a carbonmonoxide from the van, I guess.
Man,

Omar (23:58):
that, that, that's a, that's a tragedy, man.
That's, that's a man.
That's man, that's bad.
Like to go out that way, youknow?

Bret (24:05):
Bro.
It was, it was tough, man.
It was hard, man.
And, um, so I started shootingdope after that, man.
And, and when I did that, man,it, it made me forget all about
Chad.
It made me forget about all ofmy problems in my life, man.
And, um, I was in, I was, onceit got, its hooked in me, bro.
It was, it was rap dude.
It was over with.
I, I, I couldn't, I couldn'tstop, man.

(24:25):
And I didn't stop.
I didn't stop for the next 27years, man.
Um, uh, so yeah, I, I, so, so atthat point, bro, I'm really, I'm
really going off the, and Istarted kicking doors in, I had
a buddy of mine that I had met,uh, from, you know, from the
weed gay man that was from, uh,black Oak and Gary Man.

(24:47):
And he was like the coldest carthief I ever met in my life,
bro.
He taught me how to steal cars,man.
And, um, I started stealing carsto support my habit and, um, I.
Like I, I, whatever I had to do,man.
Except I never, I never sold mybody for a second.
I never did anything gay oranything like that.
And I say that because people dothat, you know what I'm saying?

(25:09):
Like, that's a real thing outthere, man.
You know?
But I say I, I did.
There wasn't nothing I wouldn'tdo except for anything like
that, you know what I'm saying?
But I was down to steal yourcar, kick your door in, you
know, uh, pull, pull up on you.
I, I robbed a couple people.
That really wasn't my thing,man.
Like, I, I was, I, I, I wouldkick your door in and take all
your crap, you know what I'msaying?

(25:29):
And or I'd steal your car.
That was really my mo, you knowwhat I mean?
Um, so I ended up go gettinglocked up and going to prison
man in, uh, 1997.
And, um, I continued to do thesame thing in prison, bro.
Um, so what happened though, inprison man, was when I got
there, man, you know, I had, youknow, my dad's, my dad was

(25:52):
Filipino, okay?
He was born in the Philippines,all right?
So he was dark, you know what Imean?
And like, um.
You know, a lot of peoplethought he was Mexican or Puerto
Rican, you know what I'm saying?
But he was, he was Filipino.
Um, and you know, so like, I, Igot that in me, right?
So when I got,

Omar (26:10):
could I ask you and your mom is what?

Bret (26:12):
She's white.

Omar (26:13):
Okay.
Gotcha.
All right.
Yeah,

Bret (26:15):
she's white.
And, um, and I got the whitest,I got the whitest name in the
world, man.
My dad wanted me to have a whiteboy's name because he was like,
man, he's like, I experienced somuch ra, so much racism when I
was growing up.
He's like, I want, my mom toldme that they wanted me to have
the best opportunities that Icould.

(26:35):
So they gave me, you know whatI'm saying?
They named me Brett Lawrence,you know what I'm saying?
Like, and, uh, and I, I waslike, you know, I was like, I, I
hated that when I was growingup.
'cause I wanted to be my, mydad.
I wanted to be like my grandma.
I, I, I, uh, I vibed with that,you know what I'm saying?
Like, I embraced that part ofmyself.
Um, but I never got a chance toknow any of them.

(26:55):
And so.
When I went to prison, man, Iseen all of these dudes in
there, man.
That, that I had met.
Like I, I grew up in a whitecommunity, man.
Like, I, I wasn't exposed to,um, other races a whole lot
until I went to prison.

Omar (27:10):
Okay?

Bret (27:11):
So I seen these guys in there, there's Mexican cats in
there, man, who they were eatingtogether and they were, they
were hanging out together andthey were socializing and, you
know, they were in a gang.
And, and like, like I cravedthat man.
I wanted to be a part of that sobad, you know?
And, um, so I started hangingout with them, you know what I'm
saying?
And like, you know, I, eventhough I didn't speak Spanish or

(27:32):
nothing, man, you know what I'msaying?
Like, I still wanted to be down,bro.
And

Omar (27:36):
you know what, uh, uh, when you're in prison, this is
in, in Indiana?

Bret (27:40):
Yeah.
I,

Omar (27:41):
I is there any like, really, um, racial tensions?
Because, because I know I talkedto people from like, uh, um,
from different states.
So how was it as far as like,uh, uh, uh, I guess in prison,
uh, racially speaking, how, how,how.
How was that in there?

Bret (27:58):
So it's not like in Indiana, bro.
It's not like you see in on the,like on the lockup shows out in
California where it's like, youknow, the whites are strictly
with the whites and the blacksstrictly with the blacks and
then the Mexicans.
Yeah.
It's not

Omar (28:12):
okay.

Bret (28:13):
Um, you know, there's a lot of mixing going on, you know
what I'm saying?
People hanging outneighborhoods, you know what I'm
saying?
It's more about where you'refrom and like what neighborhood
you're from.
Um, you know what I'm saying?
Like a lot of cats fromIndianapolis and Fort Wayne and
South Bend and you know, theylike, uh, you know, like they
don't, they don't like click up.

(28:34):
I mean, there's gangs in there,obviously don't, there's a lot
of neighborhood clicking up, youknow what I mean?
Yeah.
I mean, there's s in there,don't get me wrong, man, but you
know, the s in Indiana, bro.
I'm sorry, man.
There, there, there's, there'ssome, there was some real s in
there, but man, the, the s theway they rotated in there, that

(28:54):
mean you had s washing dishesfor some of the black guys, bro.
It was, it was like, it was kindof a joke, man.
It was a running joke going onin there, but I was, I, I, I
wasn't trying to kick it withthem anyway, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, I, I was, I was trying tokick and kick it with these
other folks, man.
Yeah.
Not folks, but like, I wastrying to kick and, um, and so I

(29:15):
did, man, like I, I, I linked upwith these guys, man.
And, um, and then, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, you know, I got into a lotof trouble, you know.
Um, and, um, I ended up goingfrom a, from what they call a
two I and a 2.0, uh, in custodyto, uh, to a level three,

(29:36):
because I, I couldn't stay outtatrouble, you know?
I was getting high.
Um, you know, I, I was breakinginto the, like, breaking into
counselor's offices to steal mywriteups and, you know what I
mean, acting like a fool, youknow what I'm saying?
Wow.

Omar (29:49):
So you see you're committing more crime while,
while incarcerated, huh?

Bret (29:53):
Couldn't stop.

Omar (29:53):
Yeah.

Bret (29:54):
Know.
Acting a fool, man.
And so when they bump my levelup, man, I went to what they, I
went to, uh, this place calledMiami bro.
And, um, it's Miami CorrectionalFacility.
And, um, you know, there waslevel threes and fours there,
man.
So it was a step up, you knowwhat I'm saying?
Like, from where I was at, like,as far as like security wise
goes and, um, you know, that's,that's where, you know, I, I

(30:19):
linked up with, with thebrothers that were at this
penitentiary man.
And, um, they were selling, theyhad all the heroin, you know
what I'm saying?
The brothers had all the heroinand you know, so I, I'm, I'm,
now, I'm running, I'm runningheroin from cell house to cell
house.
You know, and getting, gettingmy little cut for it and getting
high in prison, you know, and,and I'm not doing anything to

(30:42):
better myself, you know what I'msaying?
Like, I, I wasn't thinking aboutbettering myself.
I was thinking about, you know,um, feed My addiction

Omar (30:50):
and you, you know, but I I, I, I don't think I asked you,
or what was your sentence?
How many years did they giveyou?

Bret (30:56):
Oh, so yeah, I caught a, uh, I caught a burglary, man.
It was a class B felony.
They gave me 12 years and theysuspended six of it, and they
gave me a six three.

Omar (31:05):
Gotcha.
Okay.

Bret (31:06):
Yeah, so, um, so I, I, I'm getting in all kinds of trouble,
dude.
I'm, I'm in, I don't know if Idon't.
You're from Illinois, right?
Yes.
And I know you've been toprison, right?

Omar (31:17):
Yes.

Bret (31:18):
That on one of your things.

Omar (31:19):
You know what, I actually went in in 97 too.
So when you mentioned 97, I wasin there from 97 to 2000.

Bret (31:25):
Okay, cool.
Cool.
Yeah.
Um, so I, they, they suspendedsix and they gave me a six
three.
So I was supposed to get out in2002.
Also thousand also.
And um, you know, um, but I,that didn't happen for me man.
'cause I couldn't stay outtatrouble.
So I was in time class three,what they call time class three

(31:46):
in Indiana, which means you're,you don't get any good time,
you're doing day for day.
'cause I outta trouble.
So I ended up doing the wholesix.
I I, you know what I'm saying?
Like, uh, I see my out datesrolling past, bro, and I was, I
was sick to my stomach on thosedays.
But like, I was, I was in thereman.
And like, I was, I had like,pretty much resigned myself to,

(32:07):
you know, this was the life Ichose and so this was the life I
was gonna live, you know.
And, um, so yeah, fast forward,dude.
I ended up getting out in likethe very end of 2002.
Um, and um, I got, um, I got outand I went right back out to the
streets, bro.

(32:28):
Um, I went back out, man.
And, um, I, I started kickingout, kicking up with, with some
of the, some of the guys that Imet in there.
And, you know, we were partyingand getting high and, but the
only thing was, man, like, Icouldn't control myself, man.
Like, these guys were able to,to like, you know, like they,
they weren't like me, man.

(32:49):
Like, once I started doing dope,that's the only thing that I can
focus on, you know?
Um, so when I got out, man, andI started kicking it and
partying, man, I, I eventuallystopped hanging out with those
dudes and kind of went and wasdoing my own thing again, man.
And I was out there just, um,you know, um, trying to stay

(33:10):
high, bro.
Um, you know, I was, dude, Iwas, I was, I was a heroin
addict man.
And, um, I ended up catchinganother auto theft and, or I
kept, I caught a auto theft and,um, I, I went back into jail for
another year to the county.
I, I signed a plea bargain for atwo to one in the county along
with some probation.

(33:32):
I got out, um.
I got out, went to a halfwayhouse, was trying to get my life
together, trying to stay sober.
I was going to meetings.
Um, you know, I was, uh, youknow, but I, I was going to
these meetings, man, but Iwasn't really there for the
right reason.
I was just going to check theboxes.

(33:53):
I just wanted to get offprobation if I could, but I
wasn't even able to do that,man, because, you know, I ended
up getting kicked out of thishalfway house'cause I started
getting high again.
Um, now I'm back.
Now, now I got a warrant for myarrest and, you know, so, um, I
took off to Florida, bro, and,and was down there for a little
while, man.

(34:13):
And I, I, you know, I had thesewarrants for my arrest and
things didn't work out for medown there.
So I ended up coming back home.
Um, you know, I'm shooting dopeman, and, um, I end up, uh,
catching a possession of stolenproperty.
Um, and so here's the thing too,man.
So like.

(34:34):
When I'm getting locked up, likeso I'll, I I guess I can, I can
tell that a little bit later,man.
Um, so I, I ended up coming backand I caught a possession of
stolen property.
I ended up going back to jail.
Um, I, I forget what I forget.
So it was a possession of stolenproperty.
It was the auto theft.
They gave me all my backup timeon that.
They ended up giving me nineyears total, right?

(34:54):
So, um, I went back to prisonfor another five years, man.
I ended up doing five on thatnine.
When I got out, man, I wentright back out to the dope,
right back out to the streets.
And, um, that's when things gotreally bad for me, man.
Like, because the disease ofaddiction, bro, it's
progressive, you know what Imean?
It gets worse over time.

(35:15):
And people try to tell me that,dude, but I will, I wouldn't
listen man.
You know?
Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm.
I got all kinds of stories,dude.
But like, you know, it's just,it's just, you know what I mean?
Like, it just takes over yourhead, dude.
So I guess, you know, one of theworst times of my life, man,

(35:37):
was, was right around like 2015,bro.
I was like, you know, I wasliving down in Indianapolis, man
with, with a ex-girlfriend ofmine, and I was just, she was a,
she was an optometrist, so shemade, she made, you know,
roughly a hundred, a hundredgrand a year.
Okay.
And that was really the onlyreason I was with her, you know

(35:57):
what I'm saying?
Like, I, I was, uh, you know,she had a, she, she had a nice
crib and, you know, she hadmoney.
And so, you know, I wasbasically using her for all of
that, you know what I'm saying?
And I got really bad down.
I got really bad down here inIndianapolis on that, on that
dope man.
And, um, you know, I, I lost allof my, uh, I lost all of my.

(36:21):
Any moral values that I had,bro, I had lost them all, you
know what I'm saying?
Like I was, I was, uh, you know,I was doing, you know, just,
just really, um, scandalous, youknow what I'm saying?
Just really being reallyscandalous, man, and, and using
and abusing anybody I could gothrough, man.

(36:41):
And so I ended up, man comingback up north, bro.
And, um, I was, I was, I wascouch surfing, man, going from
place to place, man.
And, uh, I had, oh, so I went toLafayette first, that's where it
was.
I went to Lafayette, man on myway back up north and I caught a
case in Lafayette, a possessioncase.
They let me outta jail man.
And I, I didn't go back to go tocourt, alright?

(37:03):
So I had a warrant outtaLafayette man.
And so when I got really bad upthere, when I came back home,
man, I, I was strung out man.
Couch surfing.
Didn't have nowhere to go.
And so, um, you know, Imanipulated somebody that I knew
man into giving me, uh, enoughmoney to go to detox.
I told'em I wanted to get mylife straightened out, that I
wanted to go to detox and get,get my life together, which was

(37:26):
a complete lie, you know whatI'm saying?
So I took that money that theygave me, man, and I told my guy
that I was with, I said, Heyman, if you give me a ride to
Chicago so I can get this dopeman, um, and then you gimme a
ride to, to Lafayette, you knowwhat I'm saying?
So I can turn myself in on thiswarrant, you know what I'm
saying?
I told him, I said, I'll get youhigh.
We'll get high from Chicago toLafayette bro, and I'll give you

(37:46):
some dope to go home with, man.
So I went up there, I bought aquarter ounce of heroin, bro.
And um, and um, you know, we gothigh all the way back down to
Lafayette and we stopped at, um,you know, we stopped at CVS.
I told him to stop at C vs.
Man, I need to run inside andget some balloons.
So Vaseline, you know what I'msaying?
Because I had a quarter ounceman, I was gonna turn myself in

(38:09):
because I didn't have nowhere togo, but I wasn't going in
without anything, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, I was gonna take this dopein with me and everything was
gonna be cool.
Like, I'll just go in there andget high and do this little time
and, you know, and, and we'll,we'll go from there, you know,
so that, you know, I, I, I didthat man.
I, I, I, you know, you know,quarter ounce bro, and, and went

(38:33):
up into jail, dude.
And, and it was like the worst,like, you know what I'm saying?
What was supposed to be like,what was supposed to be, um, you
know, a nice, just go in thereand do this time and get high
was like the, one of the worsttimes bro ever, man.
Because, you know, like I did.
So, I did all, I did that wholequarter ounce bro in about four

(38:55):
or five days.
I can't remember.
It was just a matter of days andit was gone, bro.
And I, I was having seizures inthere, man, because I, I think
because I was doing, you know, Iwas doing so much dope, whatever
they were cutting it with, youknow what I'm saying?
Like, I started having seizuresin the cell man, and I had taken
some suboxone in with me, man.
And I was so high and sodelusional, I couldn't remember

(39:17):
when I had finished the dope andI took the Suboxone too early
and it put me into precipitatedwithdrawals, you know what I'm
saying?
So like, I'm laying in my rack,bro, and I'm throwing up and I'm
leaking out my rear end at thesame time, bro.
And I'm having seizures and it'snot like I can hit the button
and call the nurse, you knowwhat I'm saying?
What am I gonna tell him?

(39:37):
That, you know, uh, you know, I,I, I didn't wanna tell him why I
was sick, you know what I'msaying?
Um, I still had all thissuboxone on me and stuff, man.
So I just had to go through it,man.
So, yeah.
Um.
And then, you know, I, when Iwas at Westville, bro, you know,

(39:58):
I had, um, you know, I hadmanipulated one of the females
that I grew up with, um, intobringing me, um, some cocaine
and some heroin in on thevisits, you know what I'm
saying?
And you know what?
I'm, so, I'm, I'm going these,I'm going to these lengths, bro.
To get, to get these drugs injail is, is my point.
You know, it's not to glorifywhat I was doing.

(40:20):
That was how bad I had gotten,you know what I'm saying?
Like, if I was going into jail,I, I had to make sure that I had
these drugs, man.
And like, I'm making wine inprison, you know what I'm
saying?
And, and, and you know, I'm thewine man, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, I'm making wine everyweek, man.
And, and you know, like, soprison was, um, you know, it was

(40:42):
like a big party for me, man.
Like, it was, that was the waythat I, I was, I was completely
obsessed and consumed with, um,running and escaping reality,
man.
Yeah.

Omar (40:55):
So, so, uh, so you're in prison.
When, when does the change youeventually start to take place
or what?
What happens right before, youknow, you, you experienced like,
change in your life.

Bret (41:07):
So, um, I got outta prison in oh nine, man, and I haven't
been back to prison since.

Omar (41:12):
Mm-hmm.

Bret (41:13):
I, I was, um, I've been in and outta county jails since
then, of course.
But like, what happened was,man, I, I, you know, back in
2022, um, you know, by thatpoint I had, it had been 27
years, man, of, um, you know, ofcourse not every day, you know
what I'm saying?
But yeah, I, but for 27 years,there wasn't a day that went by.

(41:36):
I, I, I can almost guaranteethere wasn't a day that went by
that I didn't think aboutgetting high on heroin or
smoking crack, you know what I'msaying?
Like, I was, I was locked up inmy head, you know what I'm
saying?
So 27 years later, bro, I'mbroken.
I'm completely defeated,desperate for a new way of life,

(41:57):
man.
Um.
I overdosed in 2018, man.
Um, and it was, and dude, I usedto, I've overdosed so many
times.
Matter of fact, I used to havea, when people used to get into
my car, um, because I used tolive in my car, bro.
And we used to just, if weweren't in Gary, we were in
Chicago and we were living onthe south side in my car and,

(42:19):
you know, I mean, we weregetting high.
Um, you hustling all day to getmoney, man, just to stay high.
And I used to tell people theygot in my car.
I used to say, look here man,you overdosing my car.
This is ready.
This is what's getting ready tohappen, man.
I'm gonna call 9 1 1 and thenI'm gonna pull you out.
I'm gonna give him our locationand then I'm gonna pull you

(42:39):
outta the car and I'm gonnaleave you here and I'm gonna
drive across the street and I'mgonna make sure the ambulance
shows up.
And you know what I'm saying?
That's how it's gonna go down.
He's like, I know, I used totell him I'm not gonna let you
die, man, but that's what'sgonna happen.
I'm gonna leave you where we'reat, and I'm, I'm going across
the street and I'll wait tillthe ambulance gets here.
And nobody ever died on my watchbecause of that.

(42:59):
And that's, that's good for me,man, because like, I know people
that would just leave you, man.
They wouldn't even call 9 1 1.
Right.
They'll just leave you for dead,bro.
But I didn't, I wouldn't, Icouldn't do that to people, man.
You know?
I wouldn't want nobody doingthat to me, man.
Yeah.
You know, I, um, I, um, what wasI say, man, I, yeah.

(43:20):
So I, in 2018, bro, you know, I,I'm, I'm, I'm bad down here in
Indianapolis, man.
I'm getting high, bro.
And, um, uh.
Actually, I got clean for 13months.
I went to a halfway house.
I was trying to get my, I wastrying to get my life together,
man.
And uh, I went to a halfwayhouse, bro, and I was able to
stay sober for 13 months, man.
And you know, I've, when I wasgrowing up in high school, you

(43:42):
know, I always was always in theweight room, you know what I'm
saying?
'cause I played football andstuff.
And so I've always liked to workout, right?
And I always avoided steroids.
But at 40 years old, man, Idecided I wanted to start using
steroids.
'cause I, I ran into one of mydudes, man, and he walked in and
he was just, boom, just s swedup.
I was like, dang, bro, how'd youget, how'd you get like that
man?
He's like, man, I got thatjuice, bro.

(44:04):
I was like, man, I need some ofthat, man.
So I started banging thesesteroids, right?
And I blow up, bro.
I'm like two 40 solid man.
And you know what I'm saying?
But, but when I did that, man, Ihad been clean for 13 months
where I, when I stuck thatneedle in my arm, even though I
wasn't mainlining it, I wasputting something foreign into

(44:25):
my body that God didn't want inmy body.
And I, I lost any, any kind of,and that's the other thing, bro,
was like, I wasn't, I was sober,but I was not living an honest
lifestyle.
I had fallen back into to thefemales, you know what I'm
saying?
I wasn't getting high, but I wasrunning through females, you
know what I'm saying?
Like dime bags, bro, that I wasaddicted to.

(44:47):
I was addicted to sex, bro.
So like, I was still living adishonest lifestyle, you know
what I'm saying?
While I was clean that wholetime.
So I was really wasn't doingmuch, man.
I was just a dry drunk.
Mm-hmm.
But once I put that needle in myarm, bro, it was a rat dude.
Like, I feel like God was like,you know what?
I gotta let you go and let youdo your thing, man.

(45:08):
And I went on a six week vendor,bro.
And I, and I, I was a, I was aconcrete mason union, concrete
Mason.
I was an apprentice.
So I was making really goodmoney down here in Indianapolis.
And I, I spent all that money insix weeks that I had saved up,
man.
And, um, I was shooting dope andsmoking crack and doing meth and

(45:29):
drinking.
And I had Hep C man, I had Hep Cfor years and years and years
from shooting dope.
And, um, I had never doneanything about it.
So my liver, man, my liver wasin bad shape.
And I went on that six weekbender and my liver shut down on
me.
And when that happened, my heartstopped and I went into cardiac
arrest.

(45:49):
And, um, my buddy, I was at mybuddy's house, man, he didn't
know what to do, man.
He, he just, he, he started todo CPR on me, but he didn't know
he needed to turn me over on myside.
'cause I was, I was aspirated,you know what I'm saying?
And while he was doing CPR andblowing into my mouth, he was
pushing that vomit back downinto, and, um, and I went

(46:11):
without oxygen.
Nobody knows how long I wentwithout, but it was long enough
to where I, I use a walker now.
Um, I have to use a walker.
I can use a cane on good days.
Um, but I don't walk normal,man.
Like I was in a bed for sixmonths, bro.
Um, I, for six months I had tohave these beautiful nurses wipe
my butt for me.
You wanna talk about humbling,you know what I'm saying?

(46:33):
That's a humbling experience,bro.
When you can't wipe your ownbutt and you gotta have people
do it for you.
And, you know, I couldn't feedmyself'cause it had
uncontrollable movements, sothey had to feed me.
And, um, I was in a bed for sixmonths, bro.
And don't you know, as soon asthat six months, as soon as I
was able to walk after sixmonths, bro, as soon as I was

(46:53):
able to walk and get around onmy own, I went right back to the
Dope House man.
I showed up at the dope housewith my walker and started
getting high again, bro.
And I went back on another fourand a half year binge, bro.
And, and that was in 2018.
And in 2022, in June of 2022, Iwas at my end, bro.
I was, I was living back at mymom's house.

(47:15):
Um.
I mean, dude, it was so bad,bro.
I'd be out, I'd be in the, Iwould be sitting out in front of
the trap house, bro.
I, I would be smoking crack andI would be shaking so bad that I
couldn't even get out of the carand walk in by myself with my
walker.
They literally had to carry mein the crack house.
Four guys.
They would get under each armand under each leg, and they

(47:36):
would carry me into the crackhouse.
They would put the crack pipe inmy mouth, load the crack pipe
for me, and I, and they wouldlight it for me while I smoked
it, bro.
Because I couldn't do it on myown, man.
You know?
I mean, that's, that's what itwas like for me, bro, that I
was, I was bad dude.
I was so 20, 22, dude.

(47:57):
I was, I was laying on the floorin my mom's bedroom, dope sick
in the fetal position, and Ijust cried out to God.
I said, God, please take thisfrom me.
Please help me.
Please God, please help me.
And.
You know, he didn't do nothingright then, bro.
But two weeks later I ended upgetting locked up, man.
And um, I've been clean eversince, bro.

(48:19):
I didn't know Jesus was gonna bewaiting for me in Johnson County
jail, man.
He, uh, he was in there waitingfor me, dog.
And, um, and I don't know, I cantell you, I can tell you exactly
where I was standing, what cellblock I was in.
I know.
I'll never forget it, bro.
And I just knew that I was done.
I knew I was done getting high,bro, and I know it was Jesus,

(48:40):
bro.
Like, because I was like, I waspraying the whole time I was in
there.
I was reading the Bible, bro.
I was reading any kind of AAliterature.
I could get my hands on anythingto learn about what I had and
how I could not live that way nomore.
And, uh, yeah, dude, I cried outto him, bro, when he heard me,
man.

(49:00):
And, um,

Omar (49:03):
what, what, what, what did you experience?
What, what did you feel that youknew?
Like, man, Jesus just didsomething in my life.
I,

Bret (49:11):
I, you know, I can't, I can't explain it.
It wasn't like a, a burningbush.
It was just something clicked inmy head, dude, where I, I just
knew right there then at thatmoment that I was gonna do
anything and everything I couldnot to go back to that life.
I started, I started reading theBible.
I was reading the Bible, but Istarted reading the Bible every

(49:34):
night intentionally.
I started praying intentionally.
I started holding, listen, Istarted holding AA meetings,
this cell block with members ofthe same gang that I was running
with in this cell block.
And I'm sitting in an AA meetingtalking about my feelings, bro.
In front of like with otherguys, bro.

(49:54):
That, you know what I'm saying?
And these guys that were in thisgang, they're over here
snickering and laughing like,what's this brother doing?
Man, this brother's crazy.
But I knew that if I didn'tstart right, then I.
Then I was gonna get back outand do the same thing over if I
didn't change.
I, I knew I was changed, but Ihad to put the work in though,
you know what I'm saying?
Right.
So, and

Omar (50:15):
you, you, you know, and ask you, I know you started
this, like this group, uh, didyou have somebody that you seen,
uh, I guess, uh, somebody elsethat modeled this during this
time?
Or did you just feel, man, I I,I, I'm the one that has to start
this,

Bret (50:30):
so, so I've been going, you know, because, because of
all the trouble I've been in,because it's been all addiction
based, I've been forced to go tomeetings my whole life.
I knew about AA and na.
Right.
I knew what I needed to do.
Uh, I had just never done it.

Omar (50:49):
Gotcha.

Bret (50:50):
I hadn't been broken yet.
I was broken now, bro.

Omar (50:53):
Mm.

Bret (50:55):
And you know, they talk about, in those programs, they
talk about getting a higherpower.
Well, I know who my God is, youknow what I'm saying?
I know who the one true God is.
But how,

Omar (51:05):
how, how did you know that it was Jesus?
Because I know you said likegrowing up you believed in the
God, but maybe not necessarilyJesus.
Or, or, or going back.
And I just remembered goingback.
Was it because of what happenedto you at, uh, 12 years old when
you, uh, got saved, I guess, or,

Bret (51:21):
yeah, bro, when I, you know, I had been to church, like
I said, with that, with thatfamily.

Omar (51:26):
Okay.

Bret (51:26):
Um, bro, listen, I didn't share this either when I was in
high school, man, and when I wasstarting off in my addiction,
um, when I was still in highschool before things got really
bad, I thought I was goingcrazy, man, because I would ha,
I would hear, I would, I know itwas, I know it was God, dude,
because I would have voice in myhead telling me not to do these

(51:49):
things that I was doing andlike, not verbally, but like,

Omar (51:55):
yeah,

Bret (51:56):
I could feel this, pull on me.
Like trying to pull me away fromthe things that I was doing.
And I completely, I, I thought Iwas going crazy because at the
time I was so young, I didn'trealize that it was, it was God.
I believe it was God to thisday.
Now, I, I believe it was Godbecause they were, they were
just like, I, I can't evenexplain it, bro, but like, I was

(52:18):
being convicted man on mybehavior because I had already,
I had already got down on myknees at that point and asked
God, you know what I'm saying?
To be the Lord and Savior of mylife.
I had just never fully repented,but I believe God was a part of
my life, man, because I feltthis pull pulling me away from
what I was doing, but I didn'tlisten to it and I kept, I

(52:39):
ignored it and I did what Iwanted and my life took the, it
went down the road that it wentdown.
Had I listened to that voice orthat pull, I, I don't know where
I'd be at today.
Probably, you know, I wouldn'tbe sitting here talking to you
because I, I probably wouldn'thave went down the road that I
went down.

Omar (52:53):
Yeah.
Gotcha.
So, so, so now you're back,you're back in prison, you're
starting these AA meetingsyourself.
What, what, what, what, whatbegins to happen in there?

Bret (53:03):
So, yeah.
No, I was in, I was in, I was inthe county jail man down in, uh,
Johnson County, just south ofIndianapolis here.
And, um, I, I just, I startedholding these AA meetings, bro.
I, um, started going to churchevery Sunday in jail.
Um, and I only had to do 90 daysbecause I got popped on a
possession down there.
So I had to do 90 days, man.

(53:24):
But that 90 days was the startof my new life, man, because I
haven't gotten high since then.
Praise.
Yeah.
I praise God, man.
Um, I got outta jail dude, and Iwent into a halfway house and I
immersed myself in the churchand in AA meetings.
Um.
I started reading the Bibleevery morning to get my day
started, actually, I startedlistening to the Bible on new

(53:44):
version, and I was, I was ababy, baby Christian, you know
what I'm saying?
Like, I was just trying to dosomething different, you know
what I mean?
So I would listen to the wordevery morning to get my day
started and I would pray, andthat eventually transitioned to
me, um, reading the word, youknow what I'm saying?
And like, um, you know, like I,I've grown so much.

(54:06):
How much time we got left, bro?

Omar (54:07):
Oh, no.
We we're at, uh, 52 minutes.
So it's up to you.
Like we, we, you know, but likeI said, we could do another 10,
20 minutes or something, youknow.

Bret (54:14):
Oh, we ain't gotta go that long, bro.

Omar (54:15):
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, when you know, I'll followyour lead, man.

Bret (54:18):
Go ahead.
Um, so what happened, man, youknow, ever since then, bro, this
is, you know what I'm saying?
What God.
You know, since I've surrenderedto God and I live my life for
Jesus Christ today, man, um, youknow, I, I, I, like I said, I
started going to church andgoing to meetings, man.
And that has progressed.
To like, I still do thosethings, but like, my
relationship with God has grown,man.

(54:40):
Like, um, you know, I, I got a,I, I got a job.
I ended up getting a job inrecovery, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, I'm a recovery coachtoday, man.
Mm-hmm.
I, I, I've been a recovery coachnow for 18 months.
I get a chance to sit down withpeople and I get a chance to
hear their story, and then I geta chance to testify.
Um, you know, about, about whatJesus has done in my life.

(55:04):
Um, and how he's always beenthere.
Dude, I've overdosed so manytimes, bro.
I used, I used to get calls fromBill collectors, man, and I,
after a while, I just startedsaying, you know what?
Get in line click.
And because I, I, I, I had somany ambulance bills and so many
lawyers and all these creditorscalling me because of all the
money I owed from overdoses andstuff.

(55:25):
So like, I get a chance totestify, bro, about what Jesus
has done in my life, man.
How he's kept me alive, how he'salways been there for me, man.
And like.
Um, so I get to do that today,bro.
Mm-hmm.
I, I just got married two weeksago, bro.
Like, I, here's a guy, man thatwas in and out of prison, bro,
you know, heroin addicts,shooting dope, man.

(55:45):
Never thought I ain't got nokids, you know what I'm saying?
Like, never thought I was gonnabe able to get married.
Like Jesus has led me, you know,I met my wife in recovery coach
classes, and we have growntogether.
You know, like I, I, I had achance to talk to her about
Jesus.
She didn't believe in God when Imet her, you know what I'm
saying?
Like, and I, I basically gaveher, you know, it was like back
when I was using drugs, man, Iused to tell my girls, look, if

(56:08):
you got a problem with me doingheroin, then you gotta go.
Like, heroin came first.
I told my girl, I said, lookman, Jesus is the way, man.
Like, if you can't get, if youcan't, if you can't get up, you
know, if you can't do this withme, with God.
I, you know, I gotta move on.
So it's like, now I, I ain'ttelling people I gotta move on
now'cause of drugs.
I'm telling people, you knowwhat I'm saying?

(56:29):
Like, Hey, Jesus is the way.
Like, I won't, I won't tell'em,you know what I'm saying?
Hey, I gotta move on from you ifyou don't believe, but that's
you, you get my point, man.

Omar (56:38):
Especially like in marriage, we're in a
relationship, man.
You know, you wanna be, uh, uh,you don't wanna be unequally
yolked, right,

Bret (56:44):
right.
Yeah, bro.
Exactly, dog.
And, and, and that's how I knewman, that, you know, she was the
one man, because I, I told her,I said, man, you know, you know
if you can't,'cause I read ameme one time, bro.
It said, it said, chase, getchase God as fast as you can,
and whoever keeps up with you,that's, that's your woman.

Omar (57:04):
I like that one.
That was good.

Bret (57:05):
Yeah.
And, uh, so she did that, bro.
I, I, and I've watched herrelationship with Jesus just
prosper, you know what I'msaying?
Just develop over the last 18months, man.
And so we got married two weeksago, bro.
We just,

Omar (57:18):
oh, congratulations man.

Bret (57:19):
Thank you, man.
I appreciate that, bro.
We just got keys to a new house,bro.
Um, you know what I'm saying?
Like, God is just, he's justworking in our lives, bro, and
we just trying to stay faithfulto him today, bro.
Like, you know, like I moveddown here like three months ago
because I got a job.
Her and I worked together, bro.
We have the same, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, we live together, we worktogether, and we get along

(57:41):
really well, man.
And we're in recovery together.
We follow Jesus together.
And like, I moved down herethree months ago and we were
living in the same house, youknow, but we were obedient to
God.
I slept on the couch, you knowwhat I'm saying?
She slept in the, you know whatI'm saying?
Like we are doing our best tofollow Jesus and live how Jesus
wants us to live.

(58:02):
Because I know I'm nothingwithout him and that I can't do
anything without him.
I know without Jesus, bro, mydefault is to go back out to, to
them streets and get high.
That's, that's my default, bro.
So.
You know, Jesus is like, I'veall, like I said, bro, I've
always known that there was aGod dude, and you know, I had to

(58:25):
go through what I had to gothrough.
But you know what, I would do itagain if that was the only way I
could get to.

Omar (58:30):
Mm-hmm.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
As long, as long as it led tohim.
Right?

Bret (58:34):
Yeah, bro.
So, you know, like, y you know,my story, bro, is, is a little
different than all the others,bro.
But, you know, the bottom lineis it doesn't matter how we get
man, as long as we get, I'msaying like, he, he old bro.
Like my, you know, having thatrelationship with him, man, and
like, you know, I wanna get intolike apologetics, bro.

(58:56):
Because like, I want, I wannadefend the faith, bro.
Like, I wanna, I wanna stand uplike, you know, it's pride month
right now, bro.
And I, you know, like I, dude,I, I'm, I'm, I need to pray
about it, bro, but I get soworked up about this man because
like, I.
I can't stand it, bro.
If they push this agenda, bro,and they push it on our kids,

(59:19):
man, they, they're, they're, youknow what I'm saying?
Like, push this thing, bro.
And I just, you know, I, I fightagainst it, bro.
And I, I don't know if I'm doingthat right or not, man, but
that's kind of where I'm at withit right now.
I'm, I just can't stand all ofthe rhetoric and propaganda that
they put out there, man.
And I just feel like the Lordis, is calling me to stand up

(59:42):
and stand firm in the faith and,you know, talk to people about
what God expects out of us.
Like, you know, so I, I don'tknow.
I mean, I'm caught up in thatright now, man.

Omar (59:52):
Amen.

Bret (59:53):
But, uh,

Omar (59:53):
no, no.
I know you mentionedApologetics.
Are you thinking about maybeenrolling like in, uh, let's say
like a Bible school, sometheology?
Like what, what, what, what areyou looking into?

Bret (01:00:04):
Well, so, you know, I got a dude, man, one of my guys,
bro, he's, he's really, he'sheavy into it, right?
And I just really been talkingto him, man.
I'm just kind of picking hisbrain right now, man.
Kind of learning about it andstuff, man.
But it, from what I know so far,man, it's kind of something that
I'm interested in.
Um, and it is like, I, I don'tknow what God's got in score for

(01:00:25):
me or me and my wife, bro.
You know, I, we're reallyinvolved in the recovery, but I
just, you know, I wanna have,you know, I, I don't even know
for sure what our ministry isyet.
You know, we just got marriedtwo weeks ago.
I know.
Do with, I, I don't know forsure yet.
But I just wanna be led by himand whatever he wants me to do,

(01:00:45):
I really, bro, I've been prayingabout losing all my dreams and
aspirations and just whatever hewants me to do, you know what
I'm saying?
That's really what I want to do,bro, because whenever I start
making decisions and calling theshots, that's when my life
starts to, you know, kind ofveer off and go the wrong
direction,

Omar (01:01:06):
man, you know, man, he continue to lead you and guide
you brother, man.
Sounds like you're on the right,right path.
Marriage, uh, you know, workingtogether and sounds like you're
doing a, a ministry togetheralready, and you know, I'm sure
there's more to come though.

Bret (01:01:19):
Yeah, yeah.
No doubt, man.
But, um, yeah, bro, I appreciateyou having me on, man.
And I, I hope, I hope this helpssomebody, man.
I hope somebody can relate tothis man.
Um, and, and, um, yeah, bro, Ithink that's about all I got
there, man,

Omar (01:01:33):
actually.
All right.
No, no, sounds good, man.
Hey, man, I appreciate youtaking time to share your story
with us.
You know, usually I, uh, I allowyou, you know, uh, any final
words and then if you couldclose us out in a, in a prayer.

Bret (01:01:43):
Yeah.
So I guess, I guess my finalwords would be like, you know,
um, so all those years I was, Iwas out there, man, strung out
and running the streets, man,you know, I always knew God was
real and I always, I, I wasnever, I, I don't want, there
were times I would say I washopeless, but I always knew God

(01:02:04):
was real man, and I never gaveup hope on.
I never, never not believed inGod, man.
So I would just, I would just,final words would be, would be
to anybody that may be goingthrough the things that I went
through.
Man.
It's just never, never give uphope on God, man, because he,
he's not giving up on you, man.

(01:02:24):
And, um, yeah, I could take usout with a quick prayer man, and
I just, father God, I just wannathank you for Omar Lord.
And I just thank you for thisopportunity, Lord, um, to get on
on here and share my, myexperience, Lord.
Um, and I just pray, father,that you know that somebody
would be able to hear it and,and, and I hope it can help him,
Lord.
You know, um, I, I pray Father,that you would bless Omar's, uh,

(01:02:47):
Omar's ministry and bless hisfamily, Lord.
Um, and I just pray that youwould do the same for, for me
and my new family, Lord.
And, um, father God, we justthank you for your grace, your
unconditional love and mercyLord.
Um, you have been so, you havebeen so kind and good to us,
God.
And.
I just thank you right now,Lord, for, for who you are and,

(01:03:09):
uh, for your son, Jesus Christ,my Lord and Savior.
Our Lord and Savior, Lord.
And, um, just ask that you blessOmar as he goes forward, God and
Jesus mighty name I pray.
Amen.

Omar (01:03:19):
Hey, amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Thanks brother.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for sharing yourstory.
And amen.
I just pray for you.
I pray for your marriage.
May, may God continue to, to, tobless it, you know, bless your
marriage, your union, and may heuse not only you, but, but, but
both of you, I know youmentioned, you know, like what,
what is your family?
I mean, what is your, uh,ministry, you know, as a family,
you know, may, may he make thatclear, clear to you and man may

(01:03:41):
he keep you, you know, I like totell people, uh, uh, keep up the
God work, you know, instead ofke keep up the good work.
Keep up the God work, you know.
But, uh, uh, thank you for yourtime, brother.
And with that, we're gonna getready to, to close out.
Uh, Matthew 4:16 reads, thepeople who sat in darkness have
seen a great light, and uponthose who sat in the region and

(01:04:02):
shadow of death light has dawnedalongside my guest, Brett
Lawrence, Omar Calvillo, and weare wrong.
Too strong.

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