"Parents Imprisoned: The Cycle Continues" - The Life of Michael Crosby - From Wrong To Strong

Episode Transcript
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Michael (00:00):
So, mom and dad were, um, both of them struggled, with

(00:04):
drug addiction, alcoholism, and,uh, both beautiful souls, both
very, very beautiful people.
And, um, I'm grateful for bothof them.
But those younger years wererough, man.
I had an older brother who was,um, who was with me.
And, we spent a lot of nights,uh, behind the couch crying, you
know, um, it was very chaotic,very, abusive, uh, not

(00:29):
necessarily physically abusive,but, but man, they, they abused
each other, it was like a, likewar zone.
You know, it was rough.
It was rough.
I, I often tell people that Ibelieve that, I instinctively
went to Jesus.
And, and the reason why I saythat is because at, at three
years old, I remember I.
Going behind the couch with mybrother and, and we would put

(00:52):
our hands together and we would,we would pray to Jesus.
And I don't remember anybodytelling me that that's what I
should do, but I remember justbegging the Lord to help it, you
know, to help us to, to get it,to stop.
And, you know, I believe that heanswered that prayer.

omar (01:05):
Hmm.

Michael (01:05):
Eventually'cause they both went to jail.

omar (01:23):
From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for
its crime and violence.
On this podcast, we will besharing stories of redemption
from individuals raised in thetough streets of Chicago and
from around the country.
Some of them were gang members,drug dealers, incarcerated
victims, and perpetrators ofviolence.

(01:44):
Listen to my guests as theyshare their experiences,
struggles, trauma, but also thestrength, Hope, faith and
perseverance.
These have developed in them tokeep pushing and moving forward
in life.
Tune in to hear how their liveshave gone from darkness to light
and from wrong to strong.

(02:13):
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Wrong to
Strong Chicago.
I'm your host.
My name's Omar Calvio, andtonight I got my guest with me.
His name is Michael Crosby.
Um, met his brother at a radicaltimeout meeting.
Seems like the majority of myguests I've met at Radical
Timeout, uh, to through, uh, NiaHouse National Ministries, also

(02:34):
ministry doing the Lord's workspecifically in prison ministry.
Uh, reaching out to theincarcerated, but not only to
them, but also to their familymembers.
So thank you guys for, uh,tuning in.
For those that have beenwatching for a while, you
already know.
If you're watching on YouTube,you know, make sure you hit that
like button.
Make sure you subscribe and turndown those, uh, notifications
that way.
Man, whenever we release anotherpodcast, you get that

(02:55):
notification and, please, if, ifthese stories been blessing, you
continue to share'em, you know,uh, copy the link, text two,
three people, man, and tell'emthey gotta tune in and to hear
some of the, the stories thatare happening, not just the
stories, but to hear what God isdoing in the lives of
individuals, especially out herein the city of Chicago.
Uh, so I like to welcome mybrother, uh, Michael Crosby to

(03:16):
the podcast and thanks for beingout here, brother.

Michael (03:18):
Yeah, man.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Omar.
You know, I definitely wanna saythat, uh, I love what you're
doing for the kingdom and weneed more people like you.

omar (03:28):
Mm.
Amen brother.
Hey, like I said, uh, I don'tknow, I don't think I shared
with you, but this all from achallenge from my buddy.
Shout out to JC.
Out in Phoenix, Arizona.
Okay.
Jc?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright.
Yo, yo.
So he's, you know, this is, uh,and JC

Michael (03:43):
that for real,

omar (03:44):
from one JC to the other man.
For real.
You know, it's funny you saythat.
'cause, the way it started, hesaid that, uh, he, he was in
prayer.
He's like, I don't know why, butI feel that guy wants you to
start a podcast.
Yeah.
He called me up.
That was almost two and a halfyears ago.
And here we are, man, sharing,uh, stories of redemption that
point people to Christ, man.
So we eventually wanna get intoyours, brother, but, uh, uh, you

(04:05):
know, what, uh, could you tellus where you grew up?
What a city in, uh, I thinkyou're in another state, right?
If, if I'm mistaken, where yougrew up.

Michael (04:12):
Yeah.
I'm actually from, uh, a little,a little town, um, outside of
Cincinnati, Ohio calledLawrenceburg, Indiana.

omar (04:19):
Okay.

Michael (04:20):
Yeah.
Down at the, in the southernpart of, uh, Indiana.

omar (04:24):
Got it.
You know what, I, I was downthere, uh, Cincinnati's close to
like a Kentucky, right?

Michael (04:29):
Yeah.
There, it's the tri-state.
It's uh, right on the, uh.
There's a little corner downthere, Cincinnati, Florence,
Kentucky, and Lawrenceburg,Indiana.
Right.
On the, they call it thetri-state.
'cause all three states touch.

omar (04:40):
Okay.
Yeah.
'cause uh, uh, I went out thereto the, uh, creation Museum and,
uh, uh, a Noah's Ark Yes.
With my wife.
And, uh, we were out there, soit was pretty, pretty cool.
And then Cincinnati, they hadthis cool place, uh, American
Sign Museum.
I don't know if you ever heardof it.
I have not.
But it's nice, man.
You gotta go.
They, they got all those likeneon signs, you know, like the
ones that have in Vegas, likeall the old school ones.

(05:01):
Yeah.
And they had like a warehousefull of ones.
Pretty nice man.
Right.
But yeah.
You know, what could you tellus, uh, how was life out there,
especially in those youngeryears?
Was mom and dad in the picture,uh, back then?

Michael (05:12):
Yeah.
So, uh, mom and dad were, um,god bless'em, you know, God
bless'em.
But, you know, both of themstruggled, uh, with drug
addiction, alcoholism, and, um,I.
Uh, both beautiful souls, bothvery, very beautiful people.
And, um, I'm grateful for bothof them.
But those younger years wererough, man.

(05:33):
And, uh, yeah, they were, theywere quite rough.
I had a, I had an older brotherwho was, um, who was with me.
And, uh, we, we spent a lot ofnights, uh, behind the couch
crying, you know, um, it wasvery chaotic, very, uh, abusive,
uh, not necessarily physicallyabusive, but, but man, they,

(05:54):
they abused each other, youknow?
It was like a, like war zone.
And it wasn't anything, youknow, it wasn't nothing for, for
the police to be there.
Um, you know, it was rough.
It was rough.
I, I often tell people that Ibelieve that, uh, I
instinctively went to Jesus.
And, and the reason why I saythat is because at, at three

(06:17):
years old, I remember I.
Going behind the couch with mybrother and, and we would put
our hands together and we would,we would pray to Jesus.
And I don't remember anybodytelling me that that's what I
should do, but I remember just,just begging the Lord to help
it, you know, to help us to, toget it, to stop.
And, you know, I believe that heanswered that prayer.

omar (06:36):
Hmm.

Michael (06:36):
Eventually'cause they both went to jail.
Oh, wow.
But praise the Lord on that man.
Man.
Praise the Lord on that.

omar (06:43):
That's so, so, no, nobody, uh, uh, was, uh, I guess, uh,
sharing faith with you at thatyoung age where you heard about
Jesus, that, that you couldrecall?

Michael (06:51):
No, it was, it was, uh, the last thing on anybody's
mind, man.
Yeah.
It was, there was a lot of, uh,you know, I had grandparents and
who were, um.
They definitely weren't infaith, but they were, I, I
would, I would say decentpeople.
They were very decent people.
They, uh, you know, my grandpa'sa farmer and, uh, my
grandmother, she was very, verysweet.

(07:13):
Very sweet.
They were, they were good peopleand they, they looked out for me
and my brother the best thatthey could.
Um, but with my parents, theywere, uh, my parents were kind
of a tornado, you know, ifanybody's, uh, experienced
addiction, um, it really doestake a person to the outer
Brinks of insanity, you know,especially crack cocaine and

(07:34):
alcohol.
And, uh, yeah, I just watchedthem just destroy their lives
and destroy themselves and eachother and, and, you know, they
did the best that they couldwith us.
I, I, uh, I, I don't rememberthem being, uh, super unkind or,
you know, uh, very like, uh,abusive physically.

(07:55):
But I do remember just watchingthem just scream at each other.
You know, my mom would, shewould lock herself in the
bathroom and my dad would justbeat the door down.
We'd just be terrified, youknow?
Yeah.
And that went on for many years,

omar (08:09):
man.
I, I, I know a little while yousaid they, they eventually
stopped because they went toprison.
How, how old were you when, uh,both parents went in?

Michael (08:16):
Yeah, so, um, my dad actually ended up going in, uh,
so my mom, uh, she got locked upI think when I was five.
Um, and then my dad got lockedup when I was seven, and that
was in 1999.
And I remember that, uh, very,uh, vividly because my dad
actually got sober.

(08:36):
He got clean in 1999, in, injail.
And, uh, you know, I, I havealways said that it was because
of my prayers, you know, Iprayed him into jail.

omar (08:49):
Yeah.

Michael (08:50):
You, you, you

omar (08:50):
know what it, a lot of people on, unfortunately.
They don't get clean until they,they get in there, you know?
Yeah.
Like I've seen a lot of peoplewhere I could finally have a
reasonable conversation withthem.
'cause when they were out justhigh is like a totally different
person, you know?
Yeah.
And once they get their sobrietyand they get their mind right,

(09:11):
and then they're, to hear'em islike, man, talking to a whole
different person now.
How, how was that for you?
Like when you, you mentionedyour dad got sober and, and
there, well, what differencesdid you see, I guess from the
high and drunk man to the.
Sober man.

Michael (09:25):
Oh, yeah, man, that's such a good question.
Um, you know, there, there wasobviously some things in me
that, that were still angry withhim.

omar (09:33):
H how how old were you

Michael (09:33):
in, in 1989?
I, I was, I was seven when hegot locked up.
Okay.
But I remember from betweeneight and nine is when, uh, you
know, he got out and was, uh, hegot out of treatment and, uh,
was, was willing and ready to,to, uh, start participating in
my life.
And, you know, it, it was quitea miracle.
I will say this, you know, uh,he, he states that, you know,

(09:57):
that he, that the grace of Godmet him in a jail cell.
And, and I believe that's truebecause he's been sober for 25
years.
Oh, praise God.
Um, but he immediately came outand, um, he devoted his life to
staying sober, to carrying themessage and, uh, yeah, he became
a dad, man.
He became a dad.

(10:17):
He coached my baseball team.
And, there was a bigtransformation.
Very good.
Big, big transformation.

omar (10:23):
So, so that's your dad now, is your mom still
incarcerated at the, at thattime?

Michael (10:27):
So, yeah, my mom, she bounced in and out, um, for a
long time actually.
She just, she had a stroke atthe beginning of January of this
year, and, um, she's been in anassisted living ever since.
So, you know, she pretty muchwent until, until the wheels
fell off, you know, and, uh, Imean, praise the Lord that she

(10:47):
had a stroke, which is really,really hard to say.
But, um, it's, I believe that itsaved her life and I definitely
believe it saved her soul, youknow?
Yeah.
Yeah.

omar (10:58):
Now saved her soul.
Does eventually she came tofaith or, yeah.

Michael (11:01):
Yeah, man, since she had her stroke, she really, um,
she came to, you know, the Lordwas really talking to her, you
know, and, um, I got to take herto church and, I believe that
she's repented with her heartand, I think she's making the
steps to, to, uh, really getright with him the best that she
can, you know?
Yeah.
Got

omar (11:19):
it, man.
I, I know you mentioned like twobad things in a sense.
Prison for one and a stroke foranother, and you said that's the
only way they would've stopped,right?
Yeah,

Michael (11:29):
man, that addiction just had her, I mean, it was so,
you know, especially, shestarts, she started smoking
crack young man.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and she suffered fromsome of the most horrible, uh,
abuse, uh, sexual and physicalabuse that I've ever heard.
And that's always been, youknow, that that was always, uh,
something that allowed me tolook at my mom with such

(11:50):
compassion, you know, becauseeven though she would be
running, I would go around her,I'd bring her around friends,
and my friends would be like,dude, your mom is crazy.
'cause she'd be talking to mecrazy.
She'd, you know, she'd hit youwith a beer bottle.
She was just off the hook, man.
But like, at what age?
What was it?
Yeah, I mean, 15, 16 years old,like, we would be, you know, she
would, she would come crazyswinging a beer bottle just like

(12:10):
out of her head, you know?
Um, but I, I was able to havesuch compassion because I knew
what she went through, man.
I, I knew it.

omar (12:18):
At, at, at what age did you, I guess, hear, did she
share her story with you or didyou hear it from somebody else
that allowed you to have thatcompassion for her?

Michael (12:28):
Yeah, a lot of it.
A lot of it came from, um, fromher, you know, over the years,
you know, um.
Bits and pieces of it.
Uh, some of it came from myfather after they split up, and
some of it came from some of myfamily members.
Um, you know,'cause I had a lotof questions like, why is mom
like this man?
Why is she like this?

(12:49):
And they'd be like, look, youdon't know.
You don't know what this woman'sbeen through.
And, uh, yeah.

omar (12:54):
Yeah, that's, that, that's tough.
Now you, you mentioned, um, backthen your dad cleaned up Yeah.
Began to coach, you know, yourbaseball team, I believe you
said.
Mm-hmm.
So how, how were those teenageyears for you?
Like how does life look?

Michael (13:07):
Well, yeah, man, it was, uh, I, I started strong.
I went from strong to wrong, towrong, to strong.
Uh, but I, you know, when he wascoaching my baseball team, I
always had a little bit of, uh,rebellion in me.
You know, not too bad.
Um, but baseball was good.
I was a great athlete, you know,I did, I did pretty well in
school and I was pretty popular.

(13:29):
Um, I liked to skateboard.
I love sports, you know, I had alot of friends.
Um, and things seemed to begood, you know?
And, um, I can't rememberexactly what happened.
I wanna say it was a, asnowboard accident.
Um, but I got, I tried opiatesfor the first time.

omar (13:49):
And what were those prescribed?
Or did somebody give'em to you?

Michael (13:51):
No, they were prescribed.
Yeah, they were prescribed.
And I remember taking one, youknow, and it gave me a feeling
like I had never felt before.
You know, I explain it like, um,like a warm, uh, like a warm
bath.

omar (14:07):
Mm-hmm.

Michael (14:08):
And everything made sense.
And even if it didn't, I didn'tcare.
You know, I didn't care.

omar (14:13):
Just'cause of that feeling, huh?

Michael (14:14):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, and that was where itstarted, man.
That was where most of thedarkness started,

omar (14:21):
man.
From a, from a injury toprescription.
A prescribed opioid, huh?

Michael (14:26):
Yeah, I think I was 15, man.
15 years old.
And by the time, uh, you know,time gets fuzzy.
When you're running and gunninglike that.
But I can remember sitting in,uh, ninth grade study hall, dope
sick.
Just like couldn't wait for thebell to ring so I could get to
the city to get some fentanyl,ninth grade, you know?

(14:47):
And my dad, who was sober, whowas uh, trying to live a, a, a
spiritual life, watch me, watchme just, I mean, tank man.
I can't imagine, you know, Ireally can't.

omar (15:01):
But, but what kind of, uh, things did he try to do, like,
and when, once he noticed thatyou were going, you know?

Michael (15:06):
Yeah, he, uh, yeah, he, everything, let's put it that
way.
He, he tried everything.
I mean, you know, he probablydropped me off at 25 treatment
centers.
He had a little bit of a joke.
He would say, man, I would dropyou off at a treatment center
five hours away.
And then you'd beat me home.
And, uh, it's sad to thinkabout, but at the same time, it

(15:27):
is kind of funny.
You know, I would, he'd drop meoff.
I'd be like, all right, dad,gimme a hundred bucks.
So as soon as he'd gimme themoney, as soon as he leave, I'd
just, I'd be out of there.
You know?
I didn't want it, you know, Ididn't want it.
There was nothing, there wasnothing in me that wanted to get
clean.
Yeah.

omar (15:42):
You know?
Now, um, you, you mentioned abrother at that time.
Um, how, how does it, does he godown the same path?
Well, how, how does that, yeah.
I mean, I know it's your story,but maybe John just,

Michael (15:51):
yeah.
No, dude.
It, it actually, it, uh, forone, he, he, he's struggling,
uh, pretty good right now.
And if you know, man, uh, I wanthim to come to face so bad, man.
Amen.
But yeah, my brother, he, he gotlocked up on, when he was, uh,
19, he caught a 10 year sentencefor selling cocaine.

(16:12):
And um, I think he ended updoing like three or four years.
And, uh, he went to Indiana, uh,he went to IYC, which is the
Department of Corrections inIndiana.
He got out for, I, I want to saymaybe a couple months, turned
around, caught a coupleprobation violations, and went
right back for another coupleyears.
And, um, that last bit that hedid really tore him up.

omar (16:35):
Mm.

Michael (16:35):
He was, uh, affiliated, running and gunning, getting
high in there.
And when he came out, man, itjust, um, things were different,
you know?
Yeah.
Things were different.

omar (16:44):
Now.
Now, now, what about you?
Uh, was it just drugs or did youend up like, hitting the streets
too, as far as like gangs and,

Michael (16:50):
yeah, man, I, I, I followed suit, you know, I
followed, uh, right behind him.
Um, I ended up getting lockedup.
I, you know, I went to treatmentcenter probably 20 times.
Uh, went to jail.
Um, I ended up going to prisonfor, uh, I wanna say a little
over a year.
I think it was like 16, 17months.
And, um, got affiliated,followed right in, man, just

(17:13):
looking for, uh.
Any type of connection, youknow?
Um, and at that time it also,you know, being in that
situation, uh, being locked up,um, being young and
impressionable and, um, afraid,you know, I don't think I'd ever
would've admitted that, but I, Iwas just afraid, man,

omar (17:33):
yeah, you, you, you know how many men have sat here and
told me that?
And then if you look at some ofthese guys, man, some big, bad
dudes, you know, like, yeah.
And they're like, man, that,that's one thing that, that
I've, um, that I've loved abouthow just vulnerable guys are
like, you know,'cause some ofthese guys I was like, locked up
with, and man, these guys werebig, bad, you know?
I'm like, man, I'm glad to havethis guy by me.

(17:54):
And then for them to share,like, man, during that time,
man, I was scared.
You know?
And then, uh, nobody's gonnaadmit it then, but now we could,
you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Because man, you're, you're,you're going into the unknown,
right?

Michael (18:05):
Right.

omar (18:06):
In a sense.
So how old are you when you're,when you're in there?
Uh, I was 21.
Okay.
How, how, how much time did youend up doing?

Michael (18:12):
Uh, probably a year and a half.
Okay.
I did 16, 17 months.
Close to 18 months.

omar (18:17):
Now, let, let me ask you this, uh, um, I had a, uh, my
last guess he said, uh, he, hewas, uh, he became, uh, a worst
drug addict in prison, and hewas out in the streets.
How was that for you?
That when you went in there?

Michael (18:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, uh, I was high the wholetime.
Mm.
Yeah.
I was high the whole time.
I would, I would sit out at thepoker table and I would, I would
do Suboxone, smoke weed, and Iwould just, uh, whatever would
come in.
Really, you know, not to glorifyit at all.
No.

omar (18:47):
Right.

Michael (18:48):
I would sit out there and I'd watch the guys, uh, go
to church, you know, you couldsee'em.
They got, they got clear windowsin the meeting rooms, and they
would go in there and havechurch.
Man, I'd just sit out there andjust shake my head on'em, like,
they're so dumb.
They don't even know.
But, but literally I'm sittingthere at the table and I'm dying
inside.
I'm dying inside, man, and Idon't know why.

omar (19:09):
At, at, at that time?
Did anybody try to witness toyou, preach to you some of these
guys?

Michael (19:15):
You know, I, I did have, um, I did have one guy
when I was, I was locked up whenI was 17 years old and his name
was Jeff.
And, um, he was a disciplinaryfor a residential facility I had
been in for about a year.
And I remember he, uh, I was introuble'cause I had gotten in a

(19:35):
little bit of, uh, I think I hadgotten in some, uh, scuffs with
somebody, you know, and he satme down and, uh, he told me
about the gospel and, um, hetaught me about Jesus Christ.
And, um, I, I took to it, itactually, it actually did.
I, I remember, I remember, uh,thinking like there's something

(19:57):
to this.
There really is.
He took me to church and Iexperienced, um, I do believe I
experienced, I.
Uh, a movement of God.
I believe that, um, I definitelyexperienced the love of God
through the church.
Definitely.
You know?
Um, but I remember getting outand when I got out of that, uh,

(20:18):
that juvenile facility, I wentright back into the old
environment, you know?
And, uh, it, it didn't reallystick

omar (20:26):
right.

Michael (20:26):
You know,

omar (20:27):
but, but you, uh, felt something like that?
I,

Michael (20:30):
yeah.
Yeah, man.
And, uh, more than anything, Ithink I felt my own conviction
and guilt because I was raisedby a man who, uh, after he got
clean, did his best to teach megood morals.
Hmm.
You know, be honest, tell thetruth.
Don't steal, don't hurt people,love, you know, uh, and those
were all things that I wanted tobe and wanted to, uh, to have,

(20:57):
you know?
But when that addiction's on youYeah.
And you gotta get money.
No matter what the cost, you doa lot of things that are, are
contrary to those morals andcontrary to those beliefs, you
know?
Yeah.

omar (21:11):
You know, could I ask you at, at, um, at, at, at this
point, how, how old are you atwhen, like, when you're

Michael (21:16):
So, when I was in the juvenile facility or, uh, at,
when I, uh, at like when, um,well, I guess when your dad's
telling you all this, like, uh,these morals and Yeah.
This was pretty much throughoutmy teenage years.
Yeah.
Into adulthood.
Gotcha.
You know, I would, I would getlocked up.
I would be in a treatment centerand I would call him and I'd be
like, dad, I did it again, man.

(21:38):
And he would witness to me.
Um, yeah.
And, and that's another thing,I, I don't wanna leave out my
dad because he really did, youknow, I just couldn't hear my
dad.
Let's be honest, man.
I couldn't hear him, you know,and, uh, he probably, he
probably told me the most aboutGod.
I.
Because I would call him and Iwould one more time in a

(21:58):
treatment center, or I'm in jailagain, or I'm in prison, or, or
whatever the case may be.
And I would call him, and he'sso humble, man.
He would just be like, Michael,why don't you pray?
And, uh, man, that's making meemotional.
So I don't think about that allthe time, you know?
But, and I don't give him enoughcredit, but he would, uh, he
would, and I would, I would talkto him.

(22:20):
I had a hard time facing himsometimes because I would, I
would be so emotional and Iwould call him and just be
ashamed and guilty, you know?
I mean that, you know, he's mybiggest fan and I'm his biggest
fan.

omar (22:32):
Amen.

Michael (22:32):
Um, but yeah, I couldn't hear him.
I really couldn't hear him.
And, uh, it took me many yearsto understand that, uh, how hard
he tried, you know?
And maybe he didn't come at mewith the gospel.

omar (22:45):
Yeah.

Michael (22:45):
Maybe he didn't hit me with like scripture and, you
know, but he, but he would saythings like, Michael, just get
on your knees and ask God tohelp you.
Hmm.
And, um, sometimes I would doit, you know, but, but never
with a whole heart.

omar (23:01):
Got it.
You know, I wanted to ask you,like, I know you mentioned your
childhood, the way youexperienced, I think maybe up to
the age of, I don't know, six,seven, seeing, seeing the other
man.
Yeah.
Like, and then you see thechange, and now he's like, in a
sense preaching to you eventhough he is not maybe, you
know, sharing the, thescripture.
But was there ever a part of youthat couldn't receive based on

(23:24):
the early years, I guess thathow, how, how did, how did that
affect you when you, when youlooked at him, I guess like,
okay, now you're telling methis, but I remember that, was
that ever like going throughyour mind?

Michael (23:35):
Yeah, yeah.
I, I would say that, um, therewas always a little bit of
anger, you know, I don't know ifit was necessarily at him, um,
but there was always a lot ofanger in me and it was directed
at him because.
He was the one that was there,you know, so I was more blinded

(23:59):
to anyone and to everything.
You know, the, uh, the Biblesays that, that the light of the
gospel is blocked to those whodon't believe, and I, I just
don't know if I believed.
And, um, you know, he would say,God will help you.
And I would say, why hasn't he,you know?
Um, I I I knew that obviouslysomething profound happened in

(24:19):
his life.
Yeah.
And everyone that meets himknows that too, because he's,
he's a very humble man and, uh,he does his best to help people,
you know?
Um, but there was, I would saythat that something, something
was stopping me from hearingYeah.
From fully receiving.
Yeah.

omar (24:34):
So, so, okay.
Like in your twenties, how, howdoes life look?
I know you mentioned a coupletimes going in and outta prison.
What, what, what happens duringthe, the twenties, I guess?

Michael (24:42):
Yeah, man, that's where things actually, uh, got, got
the, the worst.
Um, I.
You know, I, I was, like I said,I was, I was on heroin very
young.
Um, but I continued to, uh, useheroin, um, IV heroin for
another, uh, I think I used for13 years.
So you can imagine what thatwould look like.

(25:04):
Um, I would get outta jail.
I would, uh, I was, you couldsay I was homeless, but I always
had a place to stay, whether itwas with a friend or with a girl
or, or whatever.
But yeah, man, I, I just didwhatever I had to do to get
money to get high.
And, um, I basically burnt everybridge, lost every friend, lost

(25:26):
every job.
I mean, you know, I burned itdown and I burned it down and I
burned it down.
And, uh, I didn't see, I didn'tsee hope.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I really didn't.

omar (25:39):
So, uh, and what, what, what, what ends up happening
that maybe starts to bring a,uh, change in your life?

Michael (25:45):
Well, there was a few instances and, uh, one that I,
that I remember, uh, prettyvividly is, I think I was 25
and, or maybe 24, and I wasdriving, oh, I'm 20, sorry.
I was 20.
Okay.
And I was driving mygirlfriend's car at the time,
and I was leaving the methadoneclinic.

(26:06):
And, um, I, I took some otherdrugs with it.
And when you take those harddrugs, you get sleepy.
And I was driving back from theclinic and I, I slammed the car
into a telephone pole.
And the way that I hit thistelephone pole was right on the
driver's side door.
And it, I mean, it brought thisthing all the way in and I

(26:28):
should have been dead, let's putit that way.
And I get to the hospital and,uh, I'm laying on the bed and my
dad walks in and a policeofficer walks in.
And they pull a needle outta mybelongings, and he's standing
there with my dad.
He, he shows it to my dad.
The cop wraps it up, throws itaway, and said, your son needs

(26:51):
help.
And he walks out.
And I remember my dad just likesitting there, almost like
dumbfounded.
And I looked at him and I thinkfor the first time I said, you
know, and I was broken.
I said, God or Dad, I, I reallythink that God's talking to me,
man.
I think he's talking to me.

(27:13):
And, uh, I don't remember whatmy dad said, but I'm pretty sure
it's something like, yeah, Ithink he is.
Hmm.
And, um, so that, you know, thatwas, that was pretty young.
And then, uh, there was a fewother instances where I, where I
just, I knew in my heart where Ihad those sobering moments where

(27:34):
I felt as if there wassomething.
That was looking out for me.
Even though I was wicked andwretched and, and could not hold
it together, there was somethingthat was loving me.
There was something that washolding me, holding me up, you
know?
And at the end there, you know,I, I believe this was the

(27:57):
beginning of my true conversion.
I, I was, uh, locked in agarage.
I'd locked myself in this garageand I'd been up for I don't know
how many days onmethamphetamine.
And, uh, I'm in there justsmoking cigarette after a
cigarette, after a cigarette.
My fingers were black and I, itdidn't matter how many drugs I

(28:17):
did, man, I couldn't feel anybetter.
And I just begin to, I begin tofeel such sorrow that the
thought immediately came like,I'm done with this man.
I'm done with this life.
I, and I thought to myself,alright, this is it.

(28:38):
This is it.
I'm done.
I'm done.
So in, before making a plan,before anything, I just, I had
this moment where I was like, Iknow, I know that God is real.
I know that he's real man.
And I begin to pray.
And I begin to pray and pray.

(28:59):
And I prayed with everything inmy heart, man.
I prayed with faith.

omar (29:04):
Hmm.

Michael (29:05):
And I cried out to him.
You know, I often tell people Iput the gun to my soul and
pulled the trigger because Iwas, I was going to, I was gonna
hear from him that, or I wasdone, you know?
And through his grace, onlythrough his grace, uh, he
intervened.
And when I say he intervened, Imean it.

(29:25):
And that night, I'll never bethe same.
Um, I won't go into to all thedetails, but I gave him probably
30 years of pain.
Sorrow and regret.
And, uh, I just laid it at hisfeet, man.
I laid it at his feet.

(29:46):
And, um,

omar (29:47):
now was that like in a form of confession of you just
speaking these things?

Michael (29:52):
Yeah, I would say that.
Um, after I, after I heard fromhim, I broke down and I started
to, I started to, in my mind, Istarted to think about the way
that I was sorry.
And the way that I had let notonly myself down, but him down

(30:14):
the way that I had ran from him,knowing that he was right there.
And I just, I emotionally gaveit to him.
I mentally gave it to him and Ibegged him to help me.
You know, I just, I begged himlike, if you can do anything
with, if with me, please do it.
Please do it.

(30:35):
And, um, that was when thiscrazy journey started, man.
And, uh, yeah.
And he began to minister to meand my dreams.
You know, there's a, there's averse in there that says, uh,
your young men will havevisions.

omar (30:51):
Man.

Michael (30:51):
Was that Joel?
Joel?
Yeah.
And your old, old men with dreamdreams.
So basically the Lord wastelling me that I'm getting old.
Let me ask you, uh, when thishappened, how, how old are you
when you had this?
Yeah, I was 29.
29 years old.
33 now.

omar (31:07):
Yeah.
So, okay, we gotta startspeaking to you through dreams.
I was this like consistentlylike, and are, are, are, are you
perceiving then that is Godspeaking to you?
Like when, when you're havinghim?

Michael (31:19):
Well, it, it's kind of, it's, this is kind of a tricky
question because I, I understoodthat it was God, but I didn't
know who God was.
So let's put it that way.
Yeah.

omar (31:31):
Yeah.

Michael (31:32):
I thought I knew that something, this was something
big and this was something allpowerful and infinite.
And I knew that every time thatI would hear his voice, man, it
would bring me to my knees, butI didn't know who he was.
Yeah.
And that's when, that's when thedreams started to bring me to
the truth.

(31:53):
And I wish I could say that Igot clean on that day, but I did
not.
I, I continued to use for almostanother year and a half, maybe
two years, and I smokedcigarettes.
All this stuff had to getcleaned up, you know?

omar (32:04):
What was the difference though?
Like, I know you mentioned like,uh, significant even though you
were using Yeah.
How, how were you, um, I guesshow did the, the high feel after
that incident?
Yeah.
It was just

Michael (32:18):
pure guilt, man.

omar (32:19):
Oh

Michael (32:19):
yeah.
It was pure guilt.
Something

omar (32:21):
you didn't feel before.

Michael (32:22):
Well, I, I actually felt it, but now I knew why.
You know, and not only that, butI knew I was terrified because
God was pursuing me.
You know, he was pursuing me.
I knew as soon as I laid my headdown on that pillow that he was
gonna be there and he was gonnabe saying something.
And not all the time was itharsh some of the time.

(32:44):
It was very harsh.
Sometimes it was, you know,people say that, that God is
just love.
God is whatever he needs to beto get to you.
You know?

omar (32:53):
And he

Michael (32:53):
proved that in my life.
Could,

omar (32:55):
could you share some like, uh, the harsh, what, what were
some of those harsh things youfelt God Yeah.
Telling

Michael (33:01):
you?
Well, uh, I would say that onedream that I had was, uh, my
best friend who had passed awayat 18 years old from, uh, he
actually got shot.
His name was Shane.
And I loved him, man.
I loved him so much.
And one of the dreams I had wasShane.
Uh.
Was there, he came to me and Iwas wrapped in chains.

(33:22):
I had chains wrapped around myneck and around my arms and
around my legs.
And I believe that those chainswere symbolizing the way that I
was chained to my sin, to theaddiction, to all the, uh,
darkness that I going on.
And chain in the dream came tome and he grabbed me by my shirt
with tears in his eyes, and hebegged me.
He said, man, please wake up andlive, bro.

(33:45):
Wake up and live.
And I remember waking up andjust thinking like, whoa, almost
like that was dirty, Lord,because, you know, you just got
me good with that, you know?
And, and, uh, there was manysituations like that before I
ended up giving up, giving upthe drugs where he would just,
uh, he would, he would literallyoverwhelm me with love.

(34:09):
And it would be painful becauseI had to wake up and look myself
in the mirror and know that Iwasn't gonna get clean.
I knew that I was gonna do itagain.
I was gonna smoke cigarettes allday.
You know, um, but thank God hewas patient with me, man.

omar (34:22):
Amen.
Yeah.
Something similar happened tome, like before I got saved, uh,
my girlfriend, she ended upgetting saved and she started
praying for me.
And I tell people that when shestarted praying for me, I
started having demonic nightmarethat night.

Michael (34:35):
Oh yeah.

omar (34:36):
Like it was just like, it seemed like it was just like,
maybe not every night, but everyother night I started dreaming.
I used to see like, like demonsand just a lot of like, I didn't
know it back then, but it waslike spiritual warfare.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
That's, that's when the warreally kicked up for my soul.
'cause she's saved, she's filledwith the Holy Spirit and I'm

(34:59):
still in darkness.
You know, I'm still, you know,like ganged involved, the
mentality.
I'm, I'm, I'm just, so, I, Icould, I could relate to that.
I could definitely agree thatGod will speak to us in our
dreams.
Yeah.
And like you mentioned, it isnot always the, it is not always
love, man.
I, but I thank God for that.
Because it, it, um, I thinkabout that scripture that says

(35:21):
that, uh, God is patient with usnot wanting anyone to perish,
but all to come to repentance.
So I think some of those dreamsYeah, that almost like a wake up
call.
Like, man, I'm, yeah.
Trying to, like you said, wakeup man.
I love what you said that what,what, what he said in the dream,
wake up and live.

Michael (35:41):
Wake

omar (35:41):
up and

Michael (35:41):
live.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I believe, you know, peoplesay that we're, uh, you know, in
the scriptures when it talksabout being called, right.
A lot of people say differentthings about being called, like
whether you're called to preachor you're called to pastor.
What I realize, and I think whatyou realize too, is when God's
calling you, he's calling you tohim.

(36:02):
Yeah.
You're being called to him.
And, and I had a few dreamswhere I was possessed and some,
you know, some anacondascrawling and all kinds of stuff,
man, that were, that wasterrifying.
But he was literally, uh, theonly way I can describe it is he
threw a rope around me and hewas just yanking it, dragging me

(36:23):
through the mud.
Man, I'm, you're coming homeboy.
And thank God, man.
'cause when you're, when you'regetting pulled to him, when he's
calling you home, he's callingyou back to himself.
It seems impossible.
I don't know how you're gonnaget me to there.
I don't know how you're gonnaget me clean.
I don't know how you're gonnaget me off these cigarettes.

(36:45):
I don't know how you're gonnaget me to quit doing this.
I don't know how.
But you've done it with otherpeople, I think, you know, and
that's what he did with you,man.
Yeah.
He was calling you home.

omar (36:55):
You, you know what, uh, as you were talking, a memory came
to my mind of like, the last fewweeks before I got saved and the
feeling that I felt, I felt likeI was going crazy.
I felt like I was losing mymind.
Oh yeah, man.
Like.
Just the, the thought just cameto me how I felt like I, I felt

(37:16):
out of place.
I felt uncomfortable, uneasy,and like, man, what's wrong with
me?
And looking back, man, that waslike a, like, almost like I
needed to go through that beforehe finally came.
And Sounds like you were goingthrough something similar there,
man.
So he's dreams.
You feel him calling you, uh,tell us what, what happens like

(37:38):
that eventually leads, you know,like, yeah,

Michael (37:40):
man, I, I, uh, I will say this.
I, I, um, I eventually got tothe place to where I was also
felt like I was going crazy, youknow, I was seeing shadows and,
uh, feeling stuff on my skin.
And, and it's not like I'mdoing, uh, at this point, I am
doing harder drugs, but notdrugs that, you know, I wasn't

(38:00):
doing, uh, some like speednormally does that, right?
But I wasn't doing speed, so youwouldn't, that doesn't usually
happen.
Yeah.
When you're doing opiates.
But, so basically I was really,uh.
The only way I can describe itis God's grace, man.
And, uh, I know it's kind of,it's kind of crazy to look at it
like that, but he was, hebrought me to surrender and
eventually, um, I went and Ichecked myself into a, a to a

(38:22):
hospital.
I said, you gotta help me.
I said, you gotta help me.
And they're like looking at melike, how can we help you?
You know, just like, uh,probably, I'm sure everybody
else was looking at me at thetime.
And, um, yeah, I remember thefirst couple days in there,
dude, things just got quiet.
Things got really quiet withinme, around me.

(38:43):
Uh, the dream slowed down, thedarkness slowed down a little
bit, and um, I think it waseight or nine days into
treatment.
Um, I was sitting out by thispond and, um, I seen, I seen the
sun shining off the pond and Iseen the ducks fly and I had

(39:03):
this warm feeling inside, man.
And I just knew, I knew rightthen and there.
I was like, he did it, man.
He saved me.
Wow.
And it hurt, but man, did hesave me.
You know, it reminds me of a,uh, there's a parable in the
Bible that talks about, uh, Ithink Jesus is talking to Peter
and he says, uh, if I loan twopeople money one a little bit

(39:27):
and one a lot, I'm not gonnaquote it.
I'm gonna paraphrase a littlebit.
You know, and I forgive bothdebts, who will love me more?
And, uh, Peter answers and says,the one you get, the one who had
the biggest debt that youforgave.
And he said, exactly.
And I resonate so much with thatbecause finally when I was like,

(39:48):
when it was all said and done,and I was surrendered and I was
in a safe place and I had givenit all to him, uh, I loved him.
I was like, wow, he did it.
He did it.
Man, my God is awesome.

omar (40:01):
Hmm.

Michael (40:02):
My God is awesome.

omar (40:03):
No, no at this, at this point.
Is it Jesus?
Do you know it's him?
Or like, where, where are youat, at, at that moment?

Michael (40:09):
Yeah, man, this is so, no, okay, that's the thing.
Let's, yeah, so that's the thingis, wait, you know, it's God,
but okay, I know it's God.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know it's God, but I don'tknow who he is.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I had a dream, a couple moredreams, but one in specific, one
specifically, my best friendShane, again, who passed away,

(40:31):
uh, sugar Shane Goleman, lovehim, man.
Rest in peace.
He, uh, he was in a dream and hewas looking, uh, really cleaned
up and, uh, had a nice haircut,had school books in his hand.
And I run up to him and I say,Shane, man, you look so good,
bro.
I was like, what happened?
And he looks at me and he says,Michael, Jesus.

(40:53):
And I woke up and I, I just, Ijust scratched my head.
I was like, Jesus, what startedto make sense?
I was like, hold up.
Is that who?
Nah.
Well, if you like, a little bitlater, I woke up one morning and
I heard through my spirit clearas day, Michael, get closer to

(41:17):
me.
And I just remember begging you,I said, how Read the scriptures?
And then it was like, whoa,okay.
You mean the Holy Bible?
You want me to read the HolyBible?
And it made sense.
I was like, yo, God just told meto read the Bible.

(41:41):
That means the Bible is real andtrue and that that Jesus Christ.
It's real and true.
There were many things thathappened after that, but, but
what was very significant is Istarted going to church and I
would go to church and I wouldjust, I was just seeking his
presence, man.
I just wanted to be, get closeto him.

(42:01):
I didn't really know how to doit.
I was definitely a babe inChrist.
You know, when I was firstgoing, I go into church, I walk
out and I'd smoke a cigarette.
You know, I, I, I was notcleaned up at all.

omar (42:11):
Now, can I ask you, at this point, are you just going
by yourself?
Is anybody around you?
I'm going by myself, man.
Okay man.
Going by myself.
That, that's huge, man.
'cause for somebody, usuallysomebody has to invite you or,
you know, but for you to justknow, man, God told me to read
the scriptures.
Yes.
So, okay.
Did you just look for a church?
How did you end up walkingthrough the doors of, of the

(42:32):
church

Michael (42:32):
like?
Yeah, man, I just, I, I was in alittle town and, and um, you
know, I just, I heard there wassomething happening at this
church and, uh, I had a coollittle church and, and I just
wanted to go, man.
I wanted to go and I wanted tobe in the presence.
And, um, as I, as I begin, itwasn't just that church though.
I was going to everything.
If I heard of a tent, revivalwas going on, I'm going to, that

(42:54):
you're telling me they got theHoly Ghost out there.
I'm going to, that this churchis on fire for Jesus.
I'm going there.
It didn't matter.
Like, I just, I just want to getto him.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And, um, so I do remember Iwould, I would go into these
churches and people would, youknow, I'm going to a, a Holy
Spirit filled churches, andthese people would prophesy over
me and they would say, man.

(43:15):
God's.
God's got a calling on yourlife, you know he's gonna use
you.
And I went to, uh, my first tentrevival, and, and this was like
after I, I still was pretty newto church and, and the pastor
gets a word from the Lord,somebody in here has a calling
on their life to preach thegospel.
And I'm gonna, I want thisperson to come to the front.
And they're like, you back therewith a tattoo on your neck?

(43:37):
Come up here.
I'm just like, hold up man.
Or walking down the street.
And I, I'm praying, I'm like,Lord, I'm having all these
experiences in church, but isn'tthis what church people say that
you're called?
Don't, don't, this is like a dadsaying you're gonna do good in
school or you're, you're gonnado whatever you set your mind
to.
And I'm walking down the streetand this black lady stands up on

(43:59):
her front porch.
She points at me and she says,you are called by God, you
should listen.
And she sits back down at thispoint, man, I'm just like, all
right, I hear you.
I hear you, man.
And, and that was kinda, uh,that was the beginning of me
starting to really pursue, uh,the word of God.
And, and, uh, I wanted to go toschool for, you know.

omar (44:23):
Amen.
Amen.
So all these things are, are,are happening.
Did you end up going to schoolfor it or what?
What, yeah.
So how, how, how does life lookthrough this?
Uh, actually, you, I'm wanna askyou this too.
Like, you get cleaned up, you'regoing to church.
How does family life look like?
Where were you staying at?
You're back with dad, you're onyour own.
How's life

Michael (44:42):
for you during this time?
So, yeah, it was a, my, I had aslow process, you know, I got
out of, I went to treatmentcenter, I went to a treatment
center, and uh, um, uh, I stayedthere for a little while and
then I get outta treatment.
I go into a halfway house, youknow, I go to a halfway house in
Louisville, Kentucky.
I stayed there for a littlewhile and, uh, and it was, it

(45:04):
was a good place.
Um.
But I didn't stay there tooawful long.
And then I, uh, transitioned toanother halfway house, closer to
home, which was back inLawrenceburg, Indiana, uh, to a,
to a, a halfway house basically.
Yeah.
I'm living on my own for themost part, living on my own.
And, uh, this is where I'm justlike, I don't have a job.

(45:24):
I don't have any money, but I'mhappy.
I have the joy of the Lord.
I have a song in my heart.
The sun shining, the birds arechirping and churches coming,
you know,

omar (45:37):
there, there's no way somebody could be happy with no
money and none of this man,

Michael (45:43):
oh, I was so free.
I was so free.
Man.
He did it.
You know what I realized on dayseven?
It stuck.
It was like he did it.
He did it.
You know, it's finished and itis finished.
It is finished, and it is

omar (45:57):
good.

Michael (45:58):
And

omar (45:58):
it is is good, man.
Yeah.
Amen.
Yeah,

Michael (46:01):
man.

omar (46:02):
Okay, so you, you're, that's a transition and, uh.
You got the desire for, to learnthe Bible.
Are you learning it just atchurch or you, you have higher,
uh, aspirations as far as likegetting into it?

Michael (46:14):
Yeah, so I, uh, I'm hearing it at church.
You know, I'm hearing differentpastors, different preachers
talk about the word.
You know, I'm, I'm, I'm doingthe best to read and study the
word myself.
Um, you know, I'm, every nightI'm, I'm in the Bible and, uh,
I'm reading, I'm reading, I'mreading, and it's starting to

(46:36):
click.
It's, it's starting to, uh,become my strength, my food, you
know, and this is a testament tothe word of God and how powerful
it is, man, because when Istarted reading, I had no idea
that it was gonna come alive.
I had no idea that this was how,because you know, at first the

(46:59):
Lord was very, uh, hecommunicated with me.
But that stop, you know,eventually he's not gonna keep
holding you up like that.
You know, eventually he's gonnapoint to the word and say, this
is how we commune, you know, butthe word of God just, it just
became, uh, my safe place.
You know?

(47:19):
I would get in there and I wouldjust read, and I'm, as I'm
reading, things are coming tome.
Like literally, uh, thesethoughts, these higher thoughts
are coming to me about what I'mreading and it's coming alive.
And if I read it long enough,I'll weep, you know, reading
about what Jesus does in thegospel and, uh, his character,

(47:42):
and I'm starting to learn andfind out who this God is that's
pursuing me.
And as I'm reading, I'm startingto see like, whoa, the same God
that's pursuing me, did this forme.
You know?
And, and, and why he did it, andwhat kind of love it takes for a
man.

(48:02):
Uh, to lay down his life for hisson, you know, for us.

omar (48:09):
Amen.

Michael (48:10):
For, you know, Jesus, what Jesus did.
Um, so yeah, that was where itstarted.
I just wanted to understand.

omar (48:16):
Yeah.

Michael (48:17):
You know, because, uh, he's pursuing me, he's talking
to me, but I don't know him.
You know, I wanna know him and,and this is how we get to know
him.

omar (48:26):
So, so you're in the world, you're learning more
about, about him.
Does anything change in yourlife during this time?

Michael (48:31):
Like as Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, as I begin to mature alittle bit, you know, I start to
understand that, um, you know,I, I believe you know, Jesus
says, uh, if you love me, youwill keep my words, you know,
and my father will love him, andwe will make our home with him.

(48:54):
So it's very important if welove him to obey his words,
amen.
But if we don't know his words,we can't obey them.
You know, so when I'm walkingaround, still thinking that I
can, uh, be the old man, itsays, no, man, you've been
crucified with him when you werebaptized.
Now walk in the newness of life.

(49:15):
And, uh, it taught, you know,the Bible, uh, talks about
righteousness and whatrighteousness looks like.
You know, that integrity and,which is such a foreign concept
to me because, man, I was theperson that people wouldn't give
cash to at Christmas because itwas suicide.
They wouldn't, they wouldn'tgive me a$20 bill'cause they

(49:36):
thought I would kill myself.
And now I'm, now I'm buildingback integrity with, with
family, with friends, withpeople.
And, and what I know in my heartand for the first time is that I
know they can trust me becauseof what he did.
Hmm.
You know.

omar (49:53):
Amen.
Amen.
How,

Michael (49:55):
how, how long has it been now

omar (49:56):
that from, from then till today, right here?

Michael (49:59):
Yeah.
So I've been completely cleansince January of last year.
January 4th of last year,

omar (50:04):
man.
So it's like a year, getting toa year and a half, almost a year
and a months.
Yeah.
Year and a half.
Yeah, man.
Awesome.
So, one thing I wanna talkabout, I know you mentioned God
calling you, telling you to getin the Word.
I want to talk, I want you toshare how, how did you end up at
Moody Bible Institute?

Michael (50:19):
Yeah, so, I mean, definitely it was, uh, you know,
I believe that, that God workedsome things out for me really
fast and, and I just wanted to,um, I felt like I was being, uh,
also called to, uh, maybe helppeople to understand, you know,
I was, uh, while I was inchurch, I, I just, I felt like,
man, I, I really want to be ableto help people.

(50:41):
Like they're helping people, youknow, look at these guys in
church and, and they're just,uh, they have such a way about
them and they know the word and,um, you know, I would come to
them when I was in pain.
And, uh, I seen that and I waslike, man, that's a man of God.
You know?
And this is all humilityspeaking like, I want to be a
man of God.

(51:02):
You know, I want to be what mydad wants me to be.
Yes.
It's in all that I can be.
And, uh, I know that I'm not, Iknow that I'm not some great
theologian or some profoundspeaker.
Um, so I believe school is agreat resource to understand
doctrine, to understandtheology, to really get right
what you believe so that, youknow, when you do stand in a, a,

(51:24):
a place or a position, uh, or anas an overseer, you know, you at
least you have the rightunderstanding.
And, uh, I'm not saying thatthat's what's gonna happen with
my life, but what I am saying isif it does, I'll be ready.

omar (51:39):
Yeah.

Michael (51:39):
You know?

omar (51:40):
Amen.
Amen.
So how, how did you end up,'cause obviously you're still
in, in Indiana at that point,and in real Booty Bible
Institutes in downtown Chicago.
So how, how, how did you end uphearing about it?
How did you end up connectingthere?
And uh, obviously, man, I think,um, if I'm not mistaken, it's,
you know, it's expensive to gothere, you know, it's like the

(52:00):
heart of downtown.
So how, how, how, how did allthat work out where you were
able to get in there, I guess?

Michael (52:06):
Yeah, no, that's a, that's a really good question.
Um, so it started with a bookthat I was reading.
Uh, a friend gave me a book andit was called All In.
And, uh, the book was aboutgoing all in for the Lord,
whatever, and whatever you'redoing.
Um, but one of the chapters wasabout a man named DL Moody who,
uh, he had a quote and the quotewas, is, uh, the world has yet

(52:30):
to see a man completelyconsecrated to God.
And with his help, I plan to bethat man, quote Dale Moody,

omar (52:38):
the world has yet to see what God could do through a man
who is fully consecrated, right?
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Like fully, like, uh, fully, butwhat God could do through him,
yo yes, yes.
And, and, and what do, um, Idesire to be that man, right.
Or something.
I just, yeah, yeah,

Michael (52:52):
yeah.
Yeah.
See, yeah, very, something verysimilar that I've seen it kind
of, uh, in, in a little bitdifferent ways.
But, but that's the, that's thegist of it.
Yes.
And when I read that, um, Ithought, wow, that's powerful.
Well, then I'm watching, I'mwatch, I'm going through some
old YouTube videos, and I, and Ihear a Billy Graham classic of
like the, in the eighties, 85,and Billy Graham, you know, uh,

(53:17):
regardless of his theology and,and what he taught, the man was
a great man.
And, uh, I loved him all the wayuntil he passed away.
I loved Billy Graham and I waslistening to one of his videos
and in one of his talks, and hetalked about, uh, uh, moody
Bible Institute, and he talkedabout their theology being sound
and it being a school ofintegrity.
And he totally supported it.

(53:37):
And, and he, you know, as soonas I heard that, I was like,
man, I.
I just thought to myself, Isaid, that would be so insane if
I could go to Moody BibleInstitute to study the word of
God.
I just thought it was, there wasno way it was gonna happen.
Right.
But I just thought it was so,you know, I told somebody about
it and I normally wouldn't dothat.
So it was kind of strange.

(53:57):
But I told'em, they said, youshould try, you should, you
should apply.
Well, as you begin to apply, yourealize there's money involved.
So I start to apply and there'slike a fee just to apply, you
know?
Well, it just so happened thatthis fee was waived by somebody
somewhere.
So the fee was waived and, and Idon't know if this happens for
everybody, but it was for me.

omar (54:16):
Yeah.

Michael (54:17):
So the first fee was waived.
And I remember praying, I said,well, I don't even got 50 bucks,
Lord, so I don't know how you'regonna make this happen.
'cause I don't even have enoughto, to pay for the application
fee, which is, I think it was 50bucks.
It may have been a hundred, butI didn't have it.
You know, I had just enough ofrent and, uh, I mean, he was
keeping me on a tight budgetand, uh, I had everything I

(54:37):
needed though.

omar (54:38):
Yeah.

Michael (54:39):
And, and it just happened like that.
Well after, after that, uh, thatfirst initial, uh, fee, you have
to write some essays and youhave to get a pastoral
reference.
And as I began to write thisstuff, man, I just, I just trust
God.
And I just poured out my heart,man.
I didn't hold nothing back.
I wrote'em.
I said, look, man, I was ajunkie.
You know, I was a heroin addict.
And, uh, the Lord saved me and Iwanna study his word.

(55:02):
Uh, I wanna know his word and Iwanna become better, you know?
And, uh, I, I, you know, wrotehim and, um, they accepted it.
And they called me and said,man, you would be a great fit
and we would love to have you.
And, um, so then, then there wasother hoops that had to happen.
You know, it was, uh, then I, Ihad my place to stay and, and a
vehicle, all this stuff, youknow?
'cause I was still pretty, stillpretty new.

omar (55:24):
Yeah.

Michael (55:24):
You know, uh, I hadn't been cleaned very long.

omar (55:28):
Yeah.

Michael (55:28):
Only been cleaned, you know, a little over a year at
this time.
So it was like, uh, I didn'thave everything figured out
financially.
Definitely not spiritually, youknow.
I got a yearning in my heart andI know him.
So, uh, that's all you need.
Yeah, man, he made it allhappen.
If I were to tell you all thedifferent people that

(55:49):
contributed, you know, somebodygave me$350 here, somebody
donated a thousand here.
I mean, it was like, if I toldyou all the different steps,
we'd be here for a few hours.

omar (55:59):
Yeah, no, but, uh, so, but it did take people, uh, funding
you, I guess is, what I wantedto know too, like, so people are
paying for you to, to attendthere.

Michael (56:08):
Yeah.
So with Moody, they, uh, thedonor, they have a, a program
where, uh, and this is, this isactually good for your viewers
too, you know.
Uh, moody has a program where ifyou are accepted into the
program, if you're accepted intoMoody, if you're a good fit for
the school, they have a programwhere a donor will actually
cover your tuition.

(56:30):
And tuition is, uh, uh, I thinkit's close to like 10,000, if
I'm not mistaken.
I'm, I'm probably wrong.
But, uh, something around there.
But, uh, there was a donor that,that contributes for that.
Um, and then, so what you'releft with is room and board.
Uh, so I was able to get, uh, aPell Grant from the state, you
know, um, because of my incomeat the time was low enough.

(56:52):
Uh, and that pretty much coveredit all.
And then, and then obvi, I had,um, expenses, outside expenses,
and this is where my, uh,recovery family, um, my support
system, my church, you know,this is where they come in.

omar (57:06):
Okay.

Michael (57:07):
And, uh, it, it ain't happening without them.
Every, every little dollar thatcame to me, I needed, I needed
for something, whether it wasgas to get there.
I mean, I remember when I, whenI got to school and I,
everything's said and done, andI'm sitting on my bed.
I probably have a hundreddollars to my name, but.

(57:28):
By the time I sat on that bed,the Lord already provided a job
at the school.
I had a job at the school.
The moment I walked in, thefirst conversation I had was
with the head of engineering.
He said, what do you do for aliving?
I said, well, I've done somehvac.
And he said, I'll be back.
Brought me an application.
I mean, I wasn't even checked inyet.

omar (57:47):
No,

Michael (57:48):
I had no money though.
I mean, I had enough to make itthere, man.
Yeah.
But I had a job the moment I saton that bed and I just sat back
and I said, you did it again.
I don't know how you did it, butyou got me here.
So,

omar (58:00):
man, I know that, that things were sharing all that,
man, that's, people need to hearthough.
'cause I, I, I know it's like,uh, how many hours was it from
there to, to Moody like you?
Yeah, it's only,

Michael (58:10):
uh, four and a half hours.
Okay.
Yeah.

omar (58:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Close to five hours.
So, so how's, how's uh, uh,college life for you

Michael (58:15):
Been, uh, there?
Man, it's, it's great.
It really is.
It.
It took a little bit to get usedto, you know, I am an older
student.
I have a little bit of adifferent background man, but
I'm so grateful for the guysthat, especially the guys on my
floor.
And, uh, I'm in the Colbert subbuilding, so Colby 11, my, my

(58:36):
friends on Colby 11, man, theyjust welcome me in with open,
open arms, you know, and they'vebeen, they've been so kind, and
the staff there has been sokind.
The professors are, you know,they're good professors.
They know their stuff and, andthey're all very kind.
Um.
You know, it's just been, it'sbeen a good experience so far,
and I'm, I'm learning a ton.
I'm growing a ton.
You know, people say that goingto Bible school's, like getting

(58:59):
10 years worth of spiritualgrowth, jam packed, because it's
tough, you know, it really is.
There's so many personalitiesand you really gotta, you gotta
maintain, uh, your connectionwith the Lord.
If you, if you let yourconnection with the Lord Slack,
it's like, it's seen and it'slike dealt with, like, what's
going on with you, bro?
Like, something's going on.

(59:19):
It's like, I gotta be, I gottabe in prayer.
I have to be in prayer.
And you have to be connected tohim.
And I believe that that's onpurpose.
You know?
I believe that he is like, comeon now, you know?
Yeah.
You're getting equipped, so it'stime to sign the role.

omar (59:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, you mentioned a lot of goodguys.
How, how did you end upconnecting with Nia House?
Because, um, that, that, that'swhere I met you.
We had a, a breakfast meeting.
It was on a Saturday morning.
Uh, basically for those thatdon't know, Nia House National
Ministries.
They do prison ministry, uh,throughout the state of
Illinois, but also they gothroughout the country.

(59:52):
And I believe it's even beenlike internationally, uh, pastor
Manny Mill.
Uh, but we have a quarterlybreakfast meeting where the
people that are involved inprison ministry, they gather
and, you know, just to, yeah.
You know, they share, you know,what's been going on, pray for
one another and, uh, bring newvolunteers in.
And that's where, where you, yougo where I met you.

(01:00:12):
But how did you end up going to,to that meeting?

Michael (01:00:15):
Yeah, I had a, uh, a person, you know, I've, I've
obviously I've been in, uh, beento prison before, so I was
thinking when I heard of theministry, I was, uh, I was like,
whoa, man, that may be somethingthat, you know, I've always
wanted to minister to inmates'cause I was one for one.
And then, um, you know, Ithought it would be a, a good
place for me to spend more,spend some time, you know, um,

(01:00:36):
maybe giving back a little bit.
So yeah, I really, I pursued itmyself, you know.
And, um, I asked if, askedaround.
And I got connected with theright people and, uh, they got
me there.
Unfortunately, things haven'tworked out with me going into
Cook County and, and you know,there's some things going on
with that.
But, uh, you know, as far as,hopefully, hopefully I get in,

(01:00:57):
you know, hopefully I do get in.
But, um, yeah,

omar (01:01:01):
that there'll be a blessing to to to, to have you
there, man, to join the team.
Yeah.
Because, uh, uh, the reason Iask is there's, uh, some guys
from Moody that, uh, that, thatgo with us.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, so on, uh, Mondaynights and they're good guys.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
They're solid.
Yeah.
You know, it is been a blessingto see, uh, man, there's a
brother from o Overseas.
I forget what, what country he'sfrom, but man, I'm gonna, I'm

(01:01:23):
gonna say it wrong, but man,he's from, uh, Europe.
He's over here studying and man,he be going in there faithfully
with us, and man, it's, it's,it's awesome to see these young
guys, man, 19, 20, 21 years oldand have a desire, man to share
the gospel in there.

Michael (01:01:38):
So what are you studying at Moody?
Yeah, so, um, my major ispastoral care and, uh, with a
minor in biblical preaching.

omar (01:01:46):
Okay, gotcha.
So how, how many years are youplanning?
Uh, uh, it's a four year degree.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
And you're barely in thebeginning, huh?
Just in the beginning.
Alright, so what, what, uh, soyou've been there.
What's, what, what's God's, uh,speaking to you right now in
this season?
Like, what, what, what's goingon with you right now?

Michael (01:02:02):
Yeah, man, I, I think that, um, I'm definitely gaining
a burden, uh, for the lost.
And I know that, I think that,that there's a time when that
happens for, for maybe everyonewho, uh, decides to pursue a, a
greater calling in this.
But, uh, when I say a, a burden,it's, it's just getting real

(01:02:22):
simple, you know, like, um, howdo I effectively get the gospel
to someone?
And then once they have receivedthe gospel, how do I get or how
do I, uh, um.
Help them to understand the nextmove, right?
Like, like, yes, Jesus, this,Jesus we speak of offers

(01:02:46):
salvation.
So what's next?
You know?
And what we know is, you know,we repent and we be baptized.
We know what what it looks like.
Yeah.
But, uh, I guess getting to aplace to where I can, uh,
present that to people in a waythat's, um, simple and, uh,

(01:03:08):
humble.
You know?
'cause sometimes this is thesort of the spirit.
Amen.
But sometimes I want to use itlike the hammer, you know?
And, uh, that's not always thebest way, you know, it could be,
uh,

omar (01:03:22):
counterproductive at times, right?
Yeah.

Michael (01:03:25):
Yeah.
It can.

omar (01:03:25):
When we could, uh, we could use it or it's been
misused against us and Yeah,like I heard somebody say it
could be that, that they misuseit.
We just, we, we don't want tohear it, you know, back then,
you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
We just now, um, you, your dad,what, what does your dad say
about you today?
Like where you're at, you know,what, how, how's that

(01:03:46):
relationship with him and maybefamily and friends that hear
about what you're doing now, ayear and a half sober,

Michael (01:03:53):
you

omar (01:03:53):
know?

Michael (01:03:54):
Yeah.
They're, uh, they're proud ofme, man.
They're really proud of me and,um, they're proud of me.
Um, for many reasons.
Uh, they definitely have a, theyhave a firm understanding that
most of the things going on inmy life are not of my making.
So they're grateful for the onewho's making it happen, you

(01:04:15):
know, which I'm, I'm, you know,I'm so grateful that they have
that understanding.
You know, they don't say, youknow, great job for all you've
done.
They say, we thank God for whathe's done for you.
You know, because I was, I wasliterally can't get right man.
I, I, uh, they thought I wasgonna die in my addiction.
I'm sure they did.
And, uh, I wouldn't blame'em,you know?

(01:04:37):
Um, so my dad actually, um, hewrote me a little birthday card,
uh, on my birthday, which was inFebruary.
And, um, he said, Mikey, that'swhat he calls me.
Mikey.
Guess who?
God's amazing Grace has.
You see you soon, dad.

(01:04:58):
You know, just, just so simpleand kind and, uh, just a
reminder that I'm in his hand,man.

omar (01:05:06):
Amen.
Yeah.
It's the best place to be for,for you and for anybody, man.
Yeah.
Get, get in his hands.
I know you brought the Bible,man.
Is there anything that youwanted to share?
Any scripture, anything that youwanna share with the listeners?
You know, maybe the god's, youknow, like, I don't know if
there's something.

Michael (01:05:22):
Yeah, man, I, I, uh, I would say Acts 2 38.
All right?

omar (01:05:27):
You, you, you wanna open it up and read it, man.
Yeah.
Then share whatever God's placedon your heart, man.
if anybody's, seeing this andyou guys don't have a Bible,
man, send me a email wrong.
Number two, strongchicago@gmail.com or go on, uh,
uh, social media, Facebook orwrong strong Chicago podcast.

(01:05:49):
Uh, Instagram, uh, w2, SCOpodcast.
Send me a DM and I'm gonna geta, a Bible out to you.
We, I actually have, uh, somethat are actually have the city
of Chicago Undercover.
I was blessed by those through,through a ministry.
Uh, so yeah, if, if, if you needa bible, if, if, if you're, if

(01:06:10):
you're listening to, to mybrother here talking about how
God told a man, read thescriptures.
And if you're hearing thistestimony, man, something's
telling you read the scripturesand you don't have a Bible, man,
I'll be happy to send you onefor free.
And man, that, that'll be thebest thing that you could do is
start getting into God's word.

(01:06:31):
I love something you said that,man, that the word is alive,
it's active, and it's speakingto us, man.
That, that word is alive.
You know, wake up and live.
Wake up and live, man.

Michael (01:06:44):
Go ahead brother.
Thank you, man.
All right.
Uh, yeah.
So this is Acts 2 38.
And, um, to give a littlecontext, um.
At this point, uh, the ApostlePeter is with all the disciples.
And, um, the people who arearound him are, they're the

(01:07:06):
Jewish people who have, uh, forthe most part, they have
crucified Jesus.
They're the ones who, um, theywere in the crowd stirred up and
they say, crucify him.
And they did not believe that hewas the son of God while he
walked on the earth.
They did not accept him asteacher.
And when they came to Peter,they said, uh, um, I'll read 37.

(01:07:31):
First says, now when they heardthis, they were cut to the heart
and sit, hold on, I'm gonna read36.
Sorry guys.
It says, therefore let all theHouse of Israel know assuredly
that God has made this Jesuswhom you crucified, both Lord
and Christ.
Now when they heard this, theywere cut to the heart and said

(01:07:53):
to Peter and the rest of theapostles, men and brethren, what
shall we do in Acts 2 38?
Then Peter said to them, repentand let every one of you be
baptized in Jesus, in the nameof Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and you shallreceive the gift of the Holy
Spirit.
And yeah, man, I I wanted to,uh, this, this passage is, is

(01:08:17):
near and dear to my heartbecause we need, for one, we
need power.

omar (01:08:20):
Amen.

Michael (01:08:21):
We need the oil.
And, uh, you know, this is a, ifanyone uh, comes to you and
says, how am I saved?
How am I saved?
Oh, well, this is a, this is apretty clear, uh, passage for
the ones who crucified Jesus.
They said, how are we saved?
Yeah.
And he said this, this yourepent.
And repentance would be aturning away.

(01:08:43):
Uh, or a for forsaking of sinand turning towards God.
So we repent with godly sorrow.
And, uh, a a repentant heartgoes to God.
Hungry Lord, desperate, and yoube baptized.
And it doesn't say that we'rebaptized for church admission or

(01:09:06):
for church membership, which Iknow some, some churches believe
that or, or preach that.
But this says that we bebaptized in the name of Jesus
Christ for the remission ofsins.
So you, you let the waters washyour soul, you'd be baptized
washing those sins away, and youcome up new and, uh, then you

(01:09:31):
can receive.
The gift of the Holy Spirit,which is the power from on high
what we need.
Amen.
So, yeah,

omar (01:09:40):
man.
Yeah.
I, I, I I love that it takespower to, to walk this out, man.
Yeah.
I know.
People have told me, man, Omar,like, especially in the
beginning, man, you havewillpower, man.
You have strength.
It's not me.
Yeah.
Like, I know me.
I know, I know what I like, youknow, it's, uh, it's something
greater than us, sir.

(01:10:01):
So definitely need that HolySpirit power, man.
That's right, man.
Michael, man, uh, thank you forbeing on here.
But I usually, you know, give myguests an opportunity.
Any final words, anything wedidn't get a chance to talk
about that you wanted to share?
And then, and then if you couldclose us out in a prayer as
well.

Michael (01:10:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I would just say that, uh, foranyone listening, you know, um,
don't wait to go to him.
You know, don't wait to go tohim.
I waited.
It's too long because I thoughtI was too broken, too lost.
I did not, I didn't believe thathe could, that he could truly

(01:10:38):
help me.
I thought maybe he could, hecould help everyone but me, you
know?
Uh, but, but my closing remarkswould be that don't wait, man.
Get to him.
Get to Jesus.
Get to God.
Get to call out, cry out fromall your, with all your heart,
man.
And, uh, watch and see if hedoesn't change everything.

omar (01:10:58):
Amen.
Yes,

Michael (01:10:59):
you will.
Yeah.
Thank you so much, man.
Oh, no, no.
The

omar (01:11:01):
event.
Thank you for being out here,man.
I was blessed by your story.
Blessed by what God's doing.
You know that, that fire, thatdesire that you have for the
word.
Amen.
Brother, if you could, you couldclose us out in a prayer.

Michael (01:11:11):
Sure.
Amen.
Uh, dear Lord Jesus, I want tothank you.
Thank you for all that you doand all that you are, Lord.
Uh, you are high and lifted upthe mountains.
Bow down to you.
The oceans obey your command andthe rocks cry out, Lord.
And, uh, we just wanna lift youup.
We love you Jesus.

(01:11:32):
I thank you for wrong to strongpodcast.
I thank you for Omar andeverything he's doing for the
kingdom.
Lord, I pray that you bless him.
Bless this podcast.
May it go far and, uh, may golong, Lord.
Yes.

omar (01:11:46):
In

Michael (01:11:46):
Jesus' name.
Amen.

omar (01:11:47):
In Jesus' name.
Amen.
Amen.
And with that, uh, we're gonnaget ready to to, to wrap up.
Uh, Matthew four 16 reads, thepeople who sat in darkness have
seen a great light, and uponthose who sat in the region and
shadow of death light has dawnedalongside my guest, Michael
Crosby.
I'm Omar Calvio, and we arewrong too strong.

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"Parents Imprisoned: The Cycle Continues" - The Life of Michael Crosby

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Parents Imprisoned: The Cycle Continues" - The Life of Michael Crosby