June 12, 2025 • 32 mins
Beneath the mystical façade of Louisiana's voodoo legends and Creole culture lurks a modern horror story few could imagine. For over a decade, from 1993 to 2006, the Baton Rouge area was gripped by fear as women disappeared and turned up murdered with alarming frequency. The community transformed – doors once left unlocked were bolted shut, morning jogs became dangerous endeavors, and the friendly Southern hospitality gave way to justifiable paranoia.
What makes this case extraordinary isn't just the brutality of the crimes, but the revelation that stunned even veteran investigators: two separate serial killers operated simultaneously in the same area without knowledge of each other. This perfect storm of evil defied traditional profiling methods and created patterns so erratic that they baffled law enforcement for years.
Derek Todd Lee and Sean Vincent Gillis stalked the same neighborhoods, sometimes targeting similar victims, yet with distinctly different signatures. While eyewitnesses repeatedly described a white male perpetrator, cutting-edge DNA technology revealed Lee was African American – shattering assumptions and forcing a complete investigative overhaul. When finally captured, Gillis displayed a disturbing admiration for Lee, even taking a hiatus from killing to avoid competing with his unwitting counterpart for public attention.
The tale of these parallel predators offers fascinating insights into criminal psychology, the limitations of traditional profiling, and the power of emerging forensic techniques. Though both killers were eventually brought to justice, accounting for approximately sixteen murders between them, dozens of cases from this period remain unsolved – a chilling reminder that the full extent of this tragedy may never be known.
Join me as I walk you through this baffling case that still sends shivers through the bayous of southern Louisiana and continues to be studied in criminal justice classrooms nationwide. Have the podcast playing as you lock your doors tonight – this story might just make you think twice about who's really knocking.
I love hearing from listeners. Please write a review and rate the show. And please, tell your friends and share episodes on your social media.
Your support helps us continue to research and share these fascinating stories from the South.
Thank you!
You can connect with me by clicking the links below.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carole Townsend (00:08):
Louisiana is a state well known for having an
eerie history of voodoohauntings and chilling legends.
The mix of West African,western European, cajun and
Creole ancestry blends history,mystery and the supernatural in
the very air of this 18th stateof the Union.
(00:30):
Because of this unique andmysterious culture, louisiana
stands apart from every otherstate in America.
From 1993 to 2006, a differenttype of specter haunted southern
Louisiana.
During a 10 to 12-year period,more than 60 women were murdered
(00:54):
or went missing in Baton Rougeand surrounding areas.
In fact, at the time, this areahad the highest murder rate in
the entire country, surpassingeven New York and Los Angeles.
Investigators struggled foryears trying to pin down a
person or even a profile of aperpetrator, until evidence
(01:17):
finally revealed why the murderswere so difficult to solve.
This period in Louisiana,history was terrifying.
The Baton Rouge area was undera siege of mistrust and fear.
Women's lives were drasticallychanged and when law enforcement
finally solved the riddle, whatthey discovered was a perfect
(01:39):
storm.
So unlikely, so rare and hardto believe that the facts sent
investigators, citizens andvictims' families reeling.
This time in Louisiana is stillstudied today in local, state
and federal criminal justice andlaw classrooms and in
(02:00):
behavioral science classrooms,and that is not likely to change
, and in behavioral scienceclassrooms, and that is not
likely to change.
Sit here with me tonight andsettle in, because the story I'm
about to tell you is stillwhispered in the swamps and
bayous of southern Louisiana.
It's discussed in the halls ofjustice.
It's whispered in LSUdormitories and off-campus
(02:22):
apartments.
It speaks of an evil and ofcircumstances so profound that
even the most hardened lawenforcement officers are still
shaken decades later.
(02:43):
Is there anything better than awell-told story?
I don't mean a movie or asocial media reel.
I mean a story told by askilled storyteller.
I don't think so.
An engaging tale, told in theright place, at the right time
by the right person, captures us.
(03:03):
It captures our imaginations.
It takes us away from the hereand now and carries us to the
what if?
When we were kids.
Was there anything better thansitting around a campfire, the
cold, dark night at our backs,the warmth and light of the fire
drawing us closer, comfortingus as we listen to a well-spun
(03:27):
tale?
Here in the South, thewelcoming front porch is often
where we spin our tales.
Now it's familiar and itwelcomes others to join us At
the end of the day when we putaway our cares and
responsibilities for just a fewhours.
We sit and we talk, and maybewe rock in a comfortable chair
(03:50):
and we're taken back to a timewhen the story was the thing,
the only thing.
So join me tonight, won't you,as we step into another tale
that's rooted in truth sodifficult to fathom that it
defies belief.
And to keep the dark in thecold at bay, I'll turn on the
(04:12):
light.
The following podcast containsmaterial that may be disturbing.
Listener.
Discretion is advised.
(04:38):
In the city of Baton Rouge insouthern Louisiana, home of
Louisiana State University,people are friendly.
There was a time, not so longago, that they didn't even lock
their doors at night and in factthey'd readily open their doors
to complete strangers.
Baton Rouge had a small townatmosphere with a bustling
(04:59):
college community in its midst.
People felt safe and at homehere in its midst.
People felt safe and at homehere.
In August 1992, connie LynnWarner was at home in the Oak
Shadows subdivision in Zachary,louisiana, sitting in her
(05:21):
favorite chair andcross-stitching, Hearing a knock
at her front door.
She cautiously opened the doorjust a crack when neither her
family nor her co-workers saw orheard from her for two days
after that she was reportedmissing.
When police entered her home tocheck on her, they found
smeared and splattered blood onthe floors and walls, but Connie
(05:45):
was nowhere to be found.
The washer and dryer in herhome had been moved as though
she had held onto them as shewas being dragged from her home
and out to her car.
Both her car and her body werefound dumped in a remote area in
Baton Rouge a couple of weekslater.
Her keys had been removed.
(06:06):
Sadly, any evidence that mighthave been gathered by law
enforcement officers was washedaway by Hurricane Andrew, the
massive storm that barreled intoLouisiana on August 16th.
Even so, the cause of her deathwas clearly beating and blunt
force trauma to the head.
(06:27):
Connie had also been sexuallyassaulted.
The brutal crime remainedunsolved for years.
In April 1998, nurse RandyMybrewer went missing from her
home in Oak Shadows subdivision.
Her three-year-old son wasfound wandering the neighborhood
(06:48):
one morning, covered in bloodand asking neighbors if he could
play with their children.
While Randy's ex-husband was aninitial person of interest, he
was quickly ruled out.
Besides, what father wouldleave his son to witness such a
horrible scene?
This case, too, remainedunsolved for years.
(07:12):
The two murders had to berelated, though, didn't they?
Because they both took place inthe same neighborhood, but they
were also six years apart.
Maybe it was all just a tragiccoincidence?
Between the years 2001 and 2003, six more women's lives in the
(07:33):
same general vicinity wereviciously snuffed out.
The victims were 39-year-oldnurse Gina Wilson-Green,
21-year-old college studentGerilyn Barr DeSoto, 22-year-old
graduate student CharlotteMurray Pace, 44-year-old antique
(07:59):
shop owner Pamela Kennemore,23-year-old Trenisha Danae
Colombe, who was in the Army andplanned to join the Marines,
and Carrie Lynn Yoder, a26-year-old graduate student.
These women were sexuallyassaulted, ruthlessly beaten and
murdered.
Brutality, rape and bloodycrime scenes tied all of these
(08:20):
tragic murders together.
So did the southern Louisianalocation.
Baffled cops went back to thedrawing board reconstructing
crimes as far back as 1992,comparing known facts and trying
desperately to see patterns andconnections.
This retracing of crimes onrecord revealed to detectives
(08:44):
that in April 1993, two teenswere parking in a cemetery near
the Oak Shadows subdivision insouthern Louisiana.
From out of nowhere, a manbegan attacking the pair,
hacking at them with a blade anda saw and leaving both of them
severely injured.
A police officer happened to bedriving by and saw the dome
(09:07):
light of the car.
On Deciding to investigate, hecame upon a bloody and chaotic
scene.
The attacker saw the officer,grabbed the car keys out of the
ignition and ran off into thethick woods behind the cemetery.
The teens survived the attack,but they were both horribly
(09:28):
traumatized by it, both horriblytraumatized by it, oak Shadows
Subdivision.
The killer must live near oreven in that neighborhood or he
must have some connection to it.
That seemed to be a logicalconclusion that couldn't be
(09:50):
ignored.
The meticulous retracing ofcrimes also revealed to
investigators that on March 21,1994, 81-year-old Ann Bryan was
murdered inside her apartment.
In an upscale retirement homein southern Louisiana.
A man had broken into herapartment and attempted to rape
her, and attempted to rape her.
When she resisted and beganscreaming, the man strangled her
(10:13):
, cut her throat and thenstabbed her repeatedly.
He also disemboweled theelderly woman after she was dead
.
But whether because of fear ofdiscovery or simple inability,
he did not rape her.
On January 4th 1999, almostfive years after Ann Ryan's
(10:40):
murder, sex worker CatherineHall approached a car with the
promise of giving the driveroral sex for a price.
The man tried to kill her bystrangling her with a zip tie,
but when she tried to escape, heinstead stabbed her to death
before undressing her, dumpingher body in a swampy area and
then mutilating it.
She had not been raped.
(11:04):
Four months later, Hardy Schmidt, whom the killer spotted
jogging in the southern area ofBaton Rouge, was being followed,
though she had no idea.
Hardy was from a prominent,well-respected family.
Her father was a judge and herhusband an attorney.
Three weeks later, the murdereragain saw her jogging and
(11:26):
intentionally hit her with hiscar, knocking her into a ditch,
tying a zip tie tightly aroundher neck.
The man took her to an isolatedarea where he attempted to rape
her but did not, then killedher before placing her body in a
truck.
Two days later he dumped her ina bayou in St James Parish,
(11:49):
where her body was soondiscovered.
St James Parish, where her bodywas soon discovered.
On November 12th, a manpresumed to be the same killer
lured, then murdered JoyceWilliams, promising her money
for sex.
He then took her corpse to hishome where he showered with it,
(12:13):
danced with it, mutilated it andthen engaged in cannibalism.
He then dumped her body whereit wouldn't be discovered until
January of the following year.
He managed to do all thiswithout his wife discovering his
vulgar misdeeds.
The patterns of these crimesdidn't make sense.
Clearly a madman, a serialkiller, was prowling southern
(12:37):
louisiana, but serial killershave patterns, routines and
practices from which they do notdeviate.
They're cunning and calculating, but still their process
matters a great deal to them.
So why, then, were some of thevictims raped and some not?
And post-mortem mutilation thatis not an afterthought or an
(13:01):
experiment for a killer.
Why did some of these womensuffer that fate and some did
not?
Why were some of these womenattacked in their homes and
others lured to their fate?
None of what was happening madesense, and that made this
killer very difficult to catch.
(13:27):
2002 LSU graduate CharlotteMarie Pace was a beautiful,
vivacious, trusting young womanat that magical fleeting age
when the entire world was at herfeet and anything was possible.
A bright young woman withcareer and life plans that
perhaps only a recent collegegraduate can conjure.
(13:48):
Charlotte, or Murray as herfriends called her, was planning
to move to Atlanta.
At the end of the summer, sheand her roommate lived in a
townhome adjacent to the LSUcampus in Baton Rouge a very
safe area, people believed.
Rouge a very safe area, peoplebelieved.
(14:12):
On the afternoon of May 31st2002, someone knocked at
Murray's door and, like mostother young women in the area at
the time, she opened it withouta second thought.
Later that day, her roommatecame home to find her body lying
in a pool of blood.
The walls, floors, mattress andlinens were soaked with her
(14:32):
blood.
Charlotte Marie Pace had beenstabbed more than 80 times.
She had been raped.
It was clear to investigatorsthat she had fought hard for her
life.
Had this been a domestic issue,police had no idea.
As far as they knew at the time, there had been no other
similar crimes in the area inrecent memory, so the thought of
(15:00):
a serial killer never occurredto law enforcement in Pace's
case.
Keep in mind, however, thatseveral sex workers had been
murdered in recent years, theirbodies grotesquely mutilated,
but, as is sadly typical, thesemurders did not receive the
police and media attention thatothers might have.
It seems that to the media andsometimes to law enforcement,
(15:31):
prostitutes who lose their livesas the result of living
high-risk lifestyles aren'tconsidered as newsworthy as are
more mainstream women.
There were similarities in allthese murders, but there were
also some crucial differences,ones that were clearly seen
during the broader investigation, as murders as far back as 10
years were being reexamined.
(15:51):
In that same month, lsu studentand jogger Christine Moore was
approached by a man as she ranalong the top of a levee, as
many runners did.
Christine was in great shapephysically, but still this man
managed to abduct her, beat her,presumably rape her, kill her
(16:12):
and leave her body in a bayou.
A month later her skeletalremains were found by
congregants at Ebenezer BaptistChurch located right next to
that bayou.
The murder rate of women rosesharply in 2002.
Women were warned not to walkanywhere alone.
They were warned againstoutdoor exercise, particularly
(16:32):
against running on levees, whichwas a favorite choice of
joggers because of the beautifullakes and scenery.
They were told not to useheadphones or earplugs when out
and about.
They were told to lock theirwindows and doors and not to
engage in conversation withstrangers, no matter how
innocent the interaction mayseem.
They began to arm themselveswith firearms and with pepper
(16:56):
spray and they signed up forself-defense classes in record
numbers.
A bloodthirsty, brutal murdererwas loose in sleepy southern
Louisiana.
Law enforcement was at acomplete loss.
They needed the help of the FBIand eventually they asked for
that help.
Puzzling indeed and veryfrustrating.
(17:19):
The killer, whom manyeyewitnesses identified as being
a white man who drove a whitepickup truck, was defying all
the established criteria forserial killers he raped.
Sometimes he seemed to enjoythe stalking, the hunt, the
bloodlust and the brutal murderof an attractive professional
(17:41):
woman or a student.
Then too he seemed to have apenchant for sex workers, who
are such easy prey for murder.
They seldom have family whonotices their absence, and it's
sadly difficult to get thegeneral public even mildly
interested in crimes committedagainst them.
(18:01):
In some cases the blood andviolence were staggering, and in
others the murder was a clean,simple strangulation, always
with a zip tie.
In those cases, post-mortemmutilations seemed to be the
goal, not the acts of murder andrape.
Sometimes the killer would lurehis victim to go with him, and
at other times he'd con or charmhis way into their very homes
(18:25):
and places of business andcommit his crimes right there
without fear of discovery.
At times he'd take trophiesfrom his victims, such as cell
phones or jewelry or keys.
At other times his trophieswere limbs, body parts and
pieces of skin.
Serial killers rarely deviatefrom their process.
(18:48):
Their taste in victims rarelychanges.
What was happening here OnFebruary 6, 2004,?
The elusive killer murderedanother victim, 43-year-old
Donna Johnston.
After taking 45 pictures of herbody while it was in his trunk,
(19:10):
he took it to an isolatedlocation and dumped it in a
ditch.
He also took the time to posethe body first, and in the
course of taking the macabrephotos, he also snapped partial
photos of his license plate.
Remember that detail all policewere sure of was that they were
(19:32):
looking for a white male.
Eyewitnesses pointed to thatand, frankly, statistics bear
out the fact that most serialkillers in the united states are
white males.
It wasn't much to go on, but itwas all that law enforcement
had.
And then in 2003, a Dr, tonyFridakis, in Sarasota, Florida,
(19:56):
claimed to have perfected a newDNA technology called SNPs, or
single nucleotide polymorphism,that breaks the ethnicity of a
murder suspect down bypercentage.
In more than 3,000 blind testsof the then cutting-edge
technology, frudakis' lab hadnot confirmed one single error.
(20:17):
Having been made aware of theunsolved murders in Baton Rouge,
frudakis offered the technologyto the Serial Murder Task Force
.
From Rouge, frudakis offeredthe technology to the Serial
Murder Task Force.
Skeptical law enforcementofficers and task force members
first submitted their own DNAfor testing, just to see whether
(20:37):
Frudakis was offering junkscience or a viable tool.
Without exception, the SNP'sDNA test identified every single
sample with precision, evensurprising some officers with
the knowledge that somewhere intheir family bloodline there was
black, white, hispanic, nativeAmerican or Asian blood in the
(20:58):
mix.
Convinced the technology wasaccurate, police submitted the
killer's DNA to for doc as's labfor testing.
Sure, the killer was white andfollowing the FBI profile, that
strongly suggested a whiteperpetrator.
At least test resultssupporting that assumption would
keep the investigation movingforward.
(21:19):
Imagine the surprise, even theshock, when, after studying DNA
found at some of the crimescenes, frudakis concluded that
the Baton Rouge serial killerhad about 80% African
affiliation and 15% NativeAmerican affiliation.
In other words, the killer wasnot white.
(21:41):
After all Years of investigationwasted, based on the new test
results, detectives shiftedtheir focus.
The DNA samples sent to DrFridakis match samples taken
from several of the rape andmurder victims.
Now we must remember that whena sex worker is tested for DNA
(22:03):
residue, many sources of DNA maybe at play.
That's not a judgment, it'ssimply the nature of that
high-risk life.
But when the selected DNAprofile was run through the
nationwide system that comparesDNA samples to those of known
criminals, technicians found amatch.
It belonged to anAfrican-American southern
(22:25):
Louisiana man named Derek ToddLee.
An arrest warrant was issued forLee and simultaneous visits by
police officers to several knownaddresses for Lee were
conducted at the same time, buthe was nowhere to be found.
(22:46):
Cell phone tracking technology,also relatively new at the time
, indicated that Lee was in thewind and in fact had fled to
Atlanta, georgia.
Warned by Louisiana lawenforcement, the Atlanta police
department's fugitive squadarrested derek todd lee on may
(23:07):
27 2003.
The louisiana task forcespokesman informed marshals in
atlanta that lee would likelykill at least one more time,
knowing that he was very closeto being apprehended.
Time was of the essence then.
Atlanta police chief richardPennington later said that, once
(23:27):
located, lee did not resistarrest, quoting Pennington.
Now I know now that we havetaken a very dangerous person,
that's a serial murder suspect,off the streets of Atlanta, and
I'm sure the citizens ofLouisiana are proud as well that
we've taken this very dangerousperson off our streets.
(23:48):
Later that week Lee wasextradited back to Louisiana.
The women of Baton Rouge andsurrounding areas could breathe
easy again, and they did.
Police officers could rest easy, knowing that they finally had
their man.
The days of working around theclock with little or no sleep
and mounting pressure were over.
(24:10):
As the investigation and trialunfolded, the public learned
that Lee was a smooth talker, askilled con man, and he could
charm almost anyone into openingthe door of their home or into
going home from a bar with him.
He had a wife, he had agirlfriend and he had children.
(24:33):
He had an IQ of 65.
Yet he managed to elude policefor years.
How Derek Todd Lee is creditedwith eight brutal rapes and
murders, though he was onlytried for two.
He received a life sentence forone murder and the death
(24:56):
penalty for the other, charlotteMurray Pace.
Upon receiving news of thislast, he soiled himself in the
courtroom when Lee was arrested.
The nightmare was finally over.
And then the unthinkable onFebruary 6 2004, as I mentioned
(25:20):
earlier, 43 year old DonnaJohnston was found murdered.
It was Donna's body that hadbeen taken to an isolated
location and dumped in a ditch,like so much discarded trash.
It was Donna's body that hadbeen posed and photographed.
All of this happened on a rainynight, as luck would have it,
(25:40):
and on rainy nights in Louisiana, where the mud and silt are
already thick, tires leave clear, unmistakable tracks.
Stunned as they were, membersof the task force that found
Derek Todd Lee went right backto work.
The tire tracks at the dumpsite were important, as those
(26:02):
tires were not a terriblypopular brand in southern
Louisiana.
Only 90 purchases of that tirehad been made in Baton Rouge.
Using true old-school gumshoepolice work, officers were able
to narrow down a list of peoplein southern Louisiana who had
purchased the Aqua Treads andthey began going door-to-door
(26:31):
talking to people who hadpurchased those tires.
In April 2004, officers knockedon the door of Sean Vincent
Gillis.
By that time they already had aDNA sample of the killer taken
from Donna Johnston's body.
It matched DNA taken from othermurder victims whose cases had
remained unsolved for years.
Officers asked Gillis toaccompany them to headquarters,
(26:54):
under the guise of hoping hecould shed light on suspicious
things he may have seen in thearea of his home near the LSU
campus.
Hours of interrogation revealedthat, yes, gillis had the
AquaTread tires on his car and,yes, he had actually driven his
car to the very same isolatedarea where Johnston's body was
(27:15):
found.
He explained that he had pulledoff the highway at that spot to
relieve himself.
In the very same isolated areawhere Johnston's body was found,
he explained that he had pulledoff the highway at that spot to
relieve himself, the very samespot where Johnston's body had
been discovered.
A search warrant for Gillis'home had been executed.
(27:36):
While detectives interrogatedhim, officers found disturbing
pornography on Gillis's computer, as well as 45 photos of Donna
Johnston's posed nude, bruisedbody in the trunk of his car.
In some of those photos, gillishad also captured partial
images of his own license plate.
Interestingly, police alsofound an extensive collection of
(27:57):
news clips and photos of DerekTodd Lee and his crimes.
It seems Sean Vincent Gillislooked to Lee as a hero of sorts
and he actually took athree-year hiatus from murdering
women as he did not wish toshare the spotlight with another
serial killer or to detractfrom Lee's accomplishments.
(28:17):
As it turned out, both killerswere operating in the same exact
area, sometimes even in thesame neighborhood, without each
other's knowledge.
During Gillis' interview withdetectives, and once he had
admitted to his crimes, he jokedwith one of the men, quoting
(28:41):
here Don't ever try eating humanskin.
I don't recommend it.
I mean, I have bad teeth, verysharp, and I chewed and chewed
and finally had to spit it out.
I couldn't swallow it and ittasted terrible, end quote.
I couldn't swallow it and ittasted terrible, end quote.
Detectives were stunned andsickened by this man's cavalier
(29:05):
attitude toward his horriblecrimes, as he went on to
describe how he had showeredwith Joyce Williams' body, then
danced and played with it beforedisposing of it.
When Gillis' wife, terry, toldpolice that she had to hear her
husband admit to the gruesomecrimes himself before she'd
believe it, they allowed her totalk with him in the interview
(29:25):
room.
Terry asked Gillis point blankdid you do all the things they
say you did?
Gillis shrugged, smiled, as hiswife said, said a cute smile
and answered yes, honey, bunny,I'm sorry.
Eight murders were credited toGillis as well and surprisingly,
(29:46):
sean Vincent Gillis wassentenced to life in prison, not
death, for his heinous crimes.
Jurors, it seems, could notagree on handing down the death
penalty as some sort of mentalillness, they believed, caused
him to do the monstrous thingsthat he did.
Victims families were shockedand frustrated by that sentence,
(30:08):
but it still stands.
Gillis is serving his lifesentence at angola, the same
prison that housed Lee, as heawaited his execution.
Lee, incidentally, died in aLouisiana hospital having
complained of feeling ill whilein his prison cell.
His cause of death is listed asheart disease.
(30:30):
He was 47 years old.
Eight murders, each Eight toLee and eight to Gillis,
According to the Baton Rougechief of police.
Even if he had been able to pin10 murders each on these two
men, that still leaves 40missing and murdered women for
(30:50):
whom families needed answers.
Those women deserve to be laidto rest in peace.
To this day, there are still noanswers and, believe it or not,
from 1993 on, at the same timethat these two separate serial
killers had southern Louisianaparalyzed with fear, another
(31:12):
storm was brewing in the samearea in Jefferson Davis Parish,
and southern Louisiana wouldonce again be rocked to its core
.
Join me next time as we take aclose look at this case rife
with murder, corruption and trueLouisiana noir.
(31:36):
With murder, corruption andtrue Louisiana noir.
I'm Carole Townsend, veterannewspaper journalist and
six-time award-winning author.
You can find me at https//www.
caroletownsend.
com, anywhere on social mediaand be sure to check out the
Front Porch Mysteries Facebookpage.
I'd love to hear from you, asalways.
(32:00):
Thanks for listening and ifyou're enjoying these tales of
Southern history and lore, Ihope you'll tell your friends.
My team and I researched thisbaffling case using the
following resources using theBayou.
Louisiana is a state well known for having an
eerie history of voodoohauntings and chilling legends.
The mix of West African,western European, cajun and
Creole ancestry blends history,mystery and the supernatural in
the very air of this 18th stateof the Union.
(00:30):
Because of this unique andmysterious culture, louisiana
stands apart from every otherstate in America.
From 1993 to 2006, a differenttype of specter haunted southern
Louisiana.
During a 10 to 12-year period,more than 60 women were murdered
(00:54):
or went missing in Baton Rougeand surrounding areas.
In fact, at the time, this areahad the highest murder rate in
the entire country, surpassingeven New York and Los Angeles.
Investigators struggled foryears trying to pin down a
person or even a profile of aperpetrator, until evidence
(01:17):
finally revealed why the murderswere so difficult to solve.
This period in Louisiana,history was terrifying.
The Baton Rouge area was undera siege of mistrust and fear.
Women's lives were drasticallychanged and when law enforcement
finally solved the riddle, whatthey discovered was a perfect
(01:39):
storm.
So unlikely, so rare and hardto believe that the facts sent
investigators, citizens andvictims' families reeling.
This time in Louisiana is stillstudied today in local, state
and federal criminal justice andlaw classrooms and in
(02:00):
behavioral science classrooms,and that is not likely to change
, and in behavioral scienceclassrooms, and that is not
likely to change.
Sit here with me tonight andsettle in, because the story I'm
about to tell you is stillwhispered in the swamps and
bayous of southern Louisiana.
It's discussed in the halls ofjustice.
It's whispered in LSUdormitories and off-campus
(02:22):
apartments.
It speaks of an evil and ofcircumstances so profound that
even the most hardened lawenforcement officers are still
shaken decades later.
(02:43):
Is there anything better than awell-told story?
I don't mean a movie or asocial media reel.
I mean a story told by askilled storyteller.
I don't think so.
An engaging tale, told in theright place, at the right time
by the right person, captures us.
(03:03):
It captures our imaginations.
It takes us away from the hereand now and carries us to the
what if?
When we were kids.
Was there anything better thansitting around a campfire, the
cold, dark night at our backs,the warmth and light of the fire
drawing us closer, comfortingus as we listen to a well-spun
(03:27):
tale?
Here in the South, thewelcoming front porch is often
where we spin our tales.
Now it's familiar and itwelcomes others to join us At
the end of the day when we putaway our cares and
responsibilities for just a fewhours.
We sit and we talk, and maybewe rock in a comfortable chair
(03:50):
and we're taken back to a timewhen the story was the thing,
the only thing.
So join me tonight, won't you,as we step into another tale
that's rooted in truth sodifficult to fathom that it
defies belief.
And to keep the dark in thecold at bay, I'll turn on the
(04:12):
light.
The following podcast containsmaterial that may be disturbing.
Listener.
Discretion is advised.
(04:38):
In the city of Baton Rouge insouthern Louisiana, home of
Louisiana State University,people are friendly.
There was a time, not so longago, that they didn't even lock
their doors at night and in factthey'd readily open their doors
to complete strangers.
Baton Rouge had a small townatmosphere with a bustling
(04:59):
college community in its midst.
People felt safe and at homehere in its midst.
People felt safe and at homehere.
In August 1992, connie LynnWarner was at home in the Oak
Shadows subdivision in Zachary,louisiana, sitting in her
(05:21):
favorite chair andcross-stitching, Hearing a knock
at her front door.
She cautiously opened the doorjust a crack when neither her
family nor her co-workers saw orheard from her for two days
after that she was reportedmissing.
When police entered her home tocheck on her, they found
smeared and splattered blood onthe floors and walls, but Connie
(05:45):
was nowhere to be found.
The washer and dryer in herhome had been moved as though
she had held onto them as shewas being dragged from her home
and out to her car.
Both her car and her body werefound dumped in a remote area in
Baton Rouge a couple of weekslater.
Her keys had been removed.
(06:06):
Sadly, any evidence that mighthave been gathered by law
enforcement officers was washedaway by Hurricane Andrew, the
massive storm that barreled intoLouisiana on August 16th.
Even so, the cause of her deathwas clearly beating and blunt
force trauma to the head.
(06:27):
Connie had also been sexuallyassaulted.
The brutal crime remainedunsolved for years.
In April 1998, nurse RandyMybrewer went missing from her
home in Oak Shadows subdivision.
Her three-year-old son wasfound wandering the neighborhood
(06:48):
one morning, covered in bloodand asking neighbors if he could
play with their children.
While Randy's ex-husband was aninitial person of interest, he
was quickly ruled out.
Besides, what father wouldleave his son to witness such a
horrible scene?
This case, too, remainedunsolved for years.
(07:12):
The two murders had to berelated, though, didn't they?
Because they both took place inthe same neighborhood, but they
were also six years apart.
Maybe it was all just a tragiccoincidence?
Between the years 2001 and 2003, six more women's lives in the
(07:33):
same general vicinity wereviciously snuffed out.
The victims were 39-year-oldnurse Gina Wilson-Green,
21-year-old college studentGerilyn Barr DeSoto, 22-year-old
graduate student CharlotteMurray Pace, 44-year-old antique
(07:59):
shop owner Pamela Kennemore,23-year-old Trenisha Danae
Colombe, who was in the Army andplanned to join the Marines,
and Carrie Lynn Yoder, a26-year-old graduate student.
These women were sexuallyassaulted, ruthlessly beaten and
murdered.
Brutality, rape and bloodycrime scenes tied all of these
(08:20):
tragic murders together.
So did the southern Louisianalocation.
Baffled cops went back to thedrawing board reconstructing
crimes as far back as 1992,comparing known facts and trying
desperately to see patterns andconnections.
This retracing of crimes onrecord revealed to detectives
(08:44):
that in April 1993, two teenswere parking in a cemetery near
the Oak Shadows subdivision insouthern Louisiana.
From out of nowhere, a manbegan attacking the pair,
hacking at them with a blade anda saw and leaving both of them
severely injured.
A police officer happened to bedriving by and saw the dome
(09:07):
light of the car.
On Deciding to investigate, hecame upon a bloody and chaotic
scene.
The attacker saw the officer,grabbed the car keys out of the
ignition and ran off into thethick woods behind the cemetery.
The teens survived the attack,but they were both horribly
(09:28):
traumatized by it, both horriblytraumatized by it, oak Shadows
Subdivision.
The killer must live near oreven in that neighborhood or he
must have some connection to it.
That seemed to be a logicalconclusion that couldn't be
(09:50):
ignored.
The meticulous retracing ofcrimes also revealed to
investigators that on March 21,1994, 81-year-old Ann Bryan was
murdered inside her apartment.
In an upscale retirement homein southern Louisiana.
A man had broken into herapartment and attempted to rape
her, and attempted to rape her.
When she resisted and beganscreaming, the man strangled her
(10:13):
, cut her throat and thenstabbed her repeatedly.
He also disemboweled theelderly woman after she was dead
.
But whether because of fear ofdiscovery or simple inability,
he did not rape her.
On January 4th 1999, almostfive years after Ann Ryan's
(10:40):
murder, sex worker CatherineHall approached a car with the
promise of giving the driveroral sex for a price.
The man tried to kill her bystrangling her with a zip tie,
but when she tried to escape, heinstead stabbed her to death
before undressing her, dumpingher body in a swampy area and
then mutilating it.
She had not been raped.
(11:04):
Four months later, Hardy Schmidt, whom the killer spotted
jogging in the southern area ofBaton Rouge, was being followed,
though she had no idea.
Hardy was from a prominent,well-respected family.
Her father was a judge and herhusband an attorney.
Three weeks later, the murdereragain saw her jogging and
(11:26):
intentionally hit her with hiscar, knocking her into a ditch,
tying a zip tie tightly aroundher neck.
The man took her to an isolatedarea where he attempted to rape
her but did not, then killedher before placing her body in a
truck.
Two days later he dumped her ina bayou in St James Parish,
(11:49):
where her body was soondiscovered.
St James Parish, where her bodywas soon discovered.
On November 12th, a manpresumed to be the same killer
lured, then murdered JoyceWilliams, promising her money
for sex.
He then took her corpse to hishome where he showered with it,
(12:13):
danced with it, mutilated it andthen engaged in cannibalism.
He then dumped her body whereit wouldn't be discovered until
January of the following year.
He managed to do all thiswithout his wife discovering his
vulgar misdeeds.
The patterns of these crimesdidn't make sense.
Clearly a madman, a serialkiller, was prowling southern
(12:37):
louisiana, but serial killershave patterns, routines and
practices from which they do notdeviate.
They're cunning and calculating, but still their process
matters a great deal to them.
So why, then, were some of thevictims raped and some not?
And post-mortem mutilation thatis not an afterthought or an
(13:01):
experiment for a killer.
Why did some of these womensuffer that fate and some did
not?
Why were some of these womenattacked in their homes and
others lured to their fate?
None of what was happening madesense, and that made this
killer very difficult to catch.
(13:27):
2002 LSU graduate CharlotteMarie Pace was a beautiful,
vivacious, trusting young womanat that magical fleeting age
when the entire world was at herfeet and anything was possible.
A bright young woman withcareer and life plans that
perhaps only a recent collegegraduate can conjure.
(13:48):
Charlotte, or Murray as herfriends called her, was planning
to move to Atlanta.
At the end of the summer, sheand her roommate lived in a
townhome adjacent to the LSUcampus in Baton Rouge a very
safe area, people believed.
Rouge a very safe area, peoplebelieved.
(14:12):
On the afternoon of May 31st2002, someone knocked at
Murray's door and, like mostother young women in the area at
the time, she opened it withouta second thought.
Later that day, her roommatecame home to find her body lying
in a pool of blood.
The walls, floors, mattress andlinens were soaked with her
(14:32):
blood.
Charlotte Marie Pace had beenstabbed more than 80 times.
She had been raped.
It was clear to investigatorsthat she had fought hard for her
life.
Had this been a domestic issue,police had no idea.
As far as they knew at the time, there had been no other
similar crimes in the area inrecent memory, so the thought of
(15:00):
a serial killer never occurredto law enforcement in Pace's
case.
Keep in mind, however, thatseveral sex workers had been
murdered in recent years, theirbodies grotesquely mutilated,
but, as is sadly typical, thesemurders did not receive the
police and media attention thatothers might have.
It seems that to the media andsometimes to law enforcement,
(15:31):
prostitutes who lose their livesas the result of living
high-risk lifestyles aren'tconsidered as newsworthy as are
more mainstream women.
There were similarities in allthese murders, but there were
also some crucial differences,ones that were clearly seen
during the broader investigation, as murders as far back as 10
years were being reexamined.
(15:51):
In that same month, lsu studentand jogger Christine Moore was
approached by a man as she ranalong the top of a levee, as
many runners did.
Christine was in great shapephysically, but still this man
managed to abduct her, beat her,presumably rape her, kill her
(16:12):
and leave her body in a bayou.
A month later her skeletalremains were found by
congregants at Ebenezer BaptistChurch located right next to
that bayou.
The murder rate of women rosesharply in 2002.
Women were warned not to walkanywhere alone.
They were warned againstoutdoor exercise, particularly
(16:32):
against running on levees, whichwas a favorite choice of
joggers because of the beautifullakes and scenery.
They were told not to useheadphones or earplugs when out
and about.
They were told to lock theirwindows and doors and not to
engage in conversation withstrangers, no matter how
innocent the interaction mayseem.
They began to arm themselveswith firearms and with pepper
(16:56):
spray and they signed up forself-defense classes in record
numbers.
A bloodthirsty, brutal murdererwas loose in sleepy southern
Louisiana.
Law enforcement was at acomplete loss.
They needed the help of the FBIand eventually they asked for
that help.
Puzzling indeed and veryfrustrating.
(17:19):
The killer, whom manyeyewitnesses identified as being
a white man who drove a whitepickup truck, was defying all
the established criteria forserial killers he raped.
Sometimes he seemed to enjoythe stalking, the hunt, the
bloodlust and the brutal murderof an attractive professional
(17:41):
woman or a student.
Then too he seemed to have apenchant for sex workers, who
are such easy prey for murder.
They seldom have family whonotices their absence, and it's
sadly difficult to get thegeneral public even mildly
interested in crimes committedagainst them.
(18:01):
In some cases the blood andviolence were staggering, and in
others the murder was a clean,simple strangulation, always
with a zip tie.
In those cases, post-mortemmutilations seemed to be the
goal, not the acts of murder andrape.
Sometimes the killer would lurehis victim to go with him, and
at other times he'd con or charmhis way into their very homes
(18:25):
and places of business andcommit his crimes right there
without fear of discovery.
At times he'd take trophiesfrom his victims, such as cell
phones or jewelry or keys.
At other times his trophieswere limbs, body parts and
pieces of skin.
Serial killers rarely deviatefrom their process.
(18:48):
Their taste in victims rarelychanges.
What was happening here OnFebruary 6, 2004,?
The elusive killer murderedanother victim, 43-year-old
Donna Johnston.
After taking 45 pictures of herbody while it was in his trunk,
(19:10):
he took it to an isolatedlocation and dumped it in a
ditch.
He also took the time to posethe body first, and in the
course of taking the macabrephotos, he also snapped partial
photos of his license plate.
Remember that detail all policewere sure of was that they were
(19:32):
looking for a white male.
Eyewitnesses pointed to thatand, frankly, statistics bear
out the fact that most serialkillers in the united states are
white males.
It wasn't much to go on, but itwas all that law enforcement
had.
And then in 2003, a Dr, tonyFridakis, in Sarasota, Florida,
(19:56):
claimed to have perfected a newDNA technology called SNPs, or
single nucleotide polymorphism,that breaks the ethnicity of a
murder suspect down bypercentage.
In more than 3,000 blind testsof the then cutting-edge
technology, frudakis' lab hadnot confirmed one single error.
(20:17):
Having been made aware of theunsolved murders in Baton Rouge,
frudakis offered the technologyto the Serial Murder Task Force
.
From Rouge, frudakis offeredthe technology to the Serial
Murder Task Force.
Skeptical law enforcementofficers and task force members
first submitted their own DNAfor testing, just to see whether
(20:37):
Frudakis was offering junkscience or a viable tool.
Without exception, the SNP'sDNA test identified every single
sample with precision, evensurprising some officers with
the knowledge that somewhere intheir family bloodline there was
black, white, hispanic, nativeAmerican or Asian blood in the
(20:58):
mix.
Convinced the technology wasaccurate, police submitted the
killer's DNA to for doc as's labfor testing.
Sure, the killer was white andfollowing the FBI profile, that
strongly suggested a whiteperpetrator.
At least test resultssupporting that assumption would
keep the investigation movingforward.
(21:19):
Imagine the surprise, even theshock, when, after studying DNA
found at some of the crimescenes, frudakis concluded that
the Baton Rouge serial killerhad about 80% African
affiliation and 15% NativeAmerican affiliation.
In other words, the killer wasnot white.
(21:41):
After all Years of investigationwasted, based on the new test
results, detectives shiftedtheir focus.
The DNA samples sent to DrFridakis match samples taken
from several of the rape andmurder victims.
Now we must remember that whena sex worker is tested for DNA
(22:03):
residue, many sources of DNA maybe at play.
That's not a judgment, it'ssimply the nature of that
high-risk life.
But when the selected DNAprofile was run through the
nationwide system that comparesDNA samples to those of known
criminals, technicians found amatch.
It belonged to anAfrican-American southern
(22:25):
Louisiana man named Derek ToddLee.
An arrest warrant was issued forLee and simultaneous visits by
police officers to several knownaddresses for Lee were
conducted at the same time, buthe was nowhere to be found.
(22:46):
Cell phone tracking technology,also relatively new at the time
, indicated that Lee was in thewind and in fact had fled to
Atlanta, georgia.
Warned by Louisiana lawenforcement, the Atlanta police
department's fugitive squadarrested derek todd lee on may
(23:07):
27 2003.
The louisiana task forcespokesman informed marshals in
atlanta that lee would likelykill at least one more time,
knowing that he was very closeto being apprehended.
Time was of the essence then.
Atlanta police chief richardPennington later said that, once
(23:27):
located, lee did not resistarrest, quoting Pennington.
Now I know now that we havetaken a very dangerous person,
that's a serial murder suspect,off the streets of Atlanta, and
I'm sure the citizens ofLouisiana are proud as well that
we've taken this very dangerousperson off our streets.
(23:48):
Later that week Lee wasextradited back to Louisiana.
The women of Baton Rouge andsurrounding areas could breathe
easy again, and they did.
Police officers could rest easy, knowing that they finally had
their man.
The days of working around theclock with little or no sleep
and mounting pressure were over.
(24:10):
As the investigation and trialunfolded, the public learned
that Lee was a smooth talker, askilled con man, and he could
charm almost anyone into openingthe door of their home or into
going home from a bar with him.
He had a wife, he had agirlfriend and he had children.
(24:33):
He had an IQ of 65.
Yet he managed to elude policefor years.
How Derek Todd Lee is creditedwith eight brutal rapes and
murders, though he was onlytried for two.
He received a life sentence forone murder and the death
(24:56):
penalty for the other, charlotteMurray Pace.
Upon receiving news of thislast, he soiled himself in the
courtroom when Lee was arrested.
The nightmare was finally over.
And then the unthinkable onFebruary 6 2004, as I mentioned
(25:20):
earlier, 43 year old DonnaJohnston was found murdered.
It was Donna's body that hadbeen taken to an isolated
location and dumped in a ditch,like so much discarded trash.
It was Donna's body that hadbeen posed and photographed.
All of this happened on a rainynight, as luck would have it,
(25:40):
and on rainy nights in Louisiana, where the mud and silt are
already thick, tires leave clear, unmistakable tracks.
Stunned as they were, membersof the task force that found
Derek Todd Lee went right backto work.
The tire tracks at the dumpsite were important, as those
(26:02):
tires were not a terriblypopular brand in southern
Louisiana.
Only 90 purchases of that tirehad been made in Baton Rouge.
Using true old-school gumshoepolice work, officers were able
to narrow down a list of peoplein southern Louisiana who had
purchased the Aqua Treads andthey began going door-to-door
(26:31):
talking to people who hadpurchased those tires.
In April 2004, officers knockedon the door of Sean Vincent
Gillis.
By that time they already had aDNA sample of the killer taken
from Donna Johnston's body.
It matched DNA taken from othermurder victims whose cases had
remained unsolved for years.
Officers asked Gillis toaccompany them to headquarters,
(26:54):
under the guise of hoping hecould shed light on suspicious
things he may have seen in thearea of his home near the LSU
campus.
Hours of interrogation revealedthat, yes, gillis had the
AquaTread tires on his car and,yes, he had actually driven his
car to the very same isolatedarea where Johnston's body was
(27:15):
found.
He explained that he had pulledoff the highway at that spot to
relieve himself.
In the very same isolated areawhere Johnston's body was found,
he explained that he had pulledoff the highway at that spot to
relieve himself, the very samespot where Johnston's body had
been discovered.
A search warrant for Gillis'home had been executed.
(27:36):
While detectives interrogatedhim, officers found disturbing
pornography on Gillis's computer, as well as 45 photos of Donna
Johnston's posed nude, bruisedbody in the trunk of his car.
In some of those photos, gillishad also captured partial
images of his own license plate.
Interestingly, police alsofound an extensive collection of
(27:57):
news clips and photos of DerekTodd Lee and his crimes.
It seems Sean Vincent Gillislooked to Lee as a hero of sorts
and he actually took athree-year hiatus from murdering
women as he did not wish toshare the spotlight with another
serial killer or to detractfrom Lee's accomplishments.
(28:17):
As it turned out, both killerswere operating in the same exact
area, sometimes even in thesame neighborhood, without each
other's knowledge.
During Gillis' interview withdetectives, and once he had
admitted to his crimes, he jokedwith one of the men, quoting
(28:41):
here Don't ever try eating humanskin.
I don't recommend it.
I mean, I have bad teeth, verysharp, and I chewed and chewed
and finally had to spit it out.
I couldn't swallow it and ittasted terrible, end quote.
I couldn't swallow it and ittasted terrible, end quote.
Detectives were stunned andsickened by this man's cavalier
(29:05):
attitude toward his horriblecrimes, as he went on to
describe how he had showeredwith Joyce Williams' body, then
danced and played with it beforedisposing of it.
When Gillis' wife, terry, toldpolice that she had to hear her
husband admit to the gruesomecrimes himself before she'd
believe it, they allowed her totalk with him in the interview
(29:25):
room.
Terry asked Gillis point blankdid you do all the things they
say you did?
Gillis shrugged, smiled, as hiswife said, said a cute smile
and answered yes, honey, bunny,I'm sorry.
Eight murders were credited toGillis as well and surprisingly,
(29:46):
sean Vincent Gillis wassentenced to life in prison, not
death, for his heinous crimes.
Jurors, it seems, could notagree on handing down the death
penalty as some sort of mentalillness, they believed, caused
him to do the monstrous thingsthat he did.
Victims families were shockedand frustrated by that sentence,
(30:08):
but it still stands.
Gillis is serving his lifesentence at angola, the same
prison that housed Lee, as heawaited his execution.
Lee, incidentally, died in aLouisiana hospital having
complained of feeling ill whilein his prison cell.
His cause of death is listed asheart disease.
(30:30):
He was 47 years old.
Eight murders, each Eight toLee and eight to Gillis,
According to the Baton Rougechief of police.
Even if he had been able to pin10 murders each on these two
men, that still leaves 40missing and murdered women for
(30:50):
whom families needed answers.
Those women deserve to be laidto rest in peace.
To this day, there are still noanswers and, believe it or not,
from 1993 on, at the same timethat these two separate serial
killers had southern Louisianaparalyzed with fear, another
(31:12):
storm was brewing in the samearea in Jefferson Davis Parish,
and southern Louisiana wouldonce again be rocked to its core
.
Join me next time as we take aclose look at this case rife
with murder, corruption and trueLouisiana noir.
(31:36):
With murder, corruption andtrue Louisiana noir.
I'm Carole Townsend, veterannewspaper journalist and
six-time award-winning author.
You can find me at https//www.
caroletownsend.
com, anywhere on social mediaand be sure to check out the
Front Porch Mysteries Facebookpage.
I'd love to hear from you, asalways.
(32:00):
Thanks for listening and ifyou're enjoying these tales of
Southern history and lore, Ihope you'll tell your friends.
My team and I researched thisbaffling case using the
following resources using theBayou.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com