May 7, 2024 • 51 mins
We were conditioned to prioritize independence and self-sufficiency, sometimes at the expense of nurturing meaningful relationships. In this episode, Jen and Jill encourage us to refine our ways of asking the people in our lives, which results in better spending decisions. Joined by Jeff Wetzler, they explore the “ask approach” and its significance in self-awareness and connecting with others.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Episode four oh four, asking questions that lead to better
spending with Jeff Wetsler. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast,
where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and life.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Here your hosts.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Jen and Jill. Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name
is Jen, my name is Jill, and today we have
an exceptionally good interview with Jeff Wetsler. He is the
author of the Ask approach. Well, he is the creator
of the Ask Approach and author of the new book
(00:42):
Ask and It. The The interview was fantastic. It went
in a direction I didn't even plan for it to go.
That was so much more than I could have planned for.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I love an organic development of goodies. It's the best thing.
You can never recreate it, but it's a good journey.
We're so glad you're here for that journey because we
believe that this conversation can be fruitful and beneficial for
just your whole life and definitely your approach and understanding
(01:16):
of finances. So stick with us. But first, this episode
is brought to you by Deals with a Z, the
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(02:00):
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Speaker 1 (02:04):
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Speaker 2 (02:22):
I think it is so in line with our affordable
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approach too, and especially for those of us who are
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(02:44):
You might not know. Sometimes you can score a really
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Speaker 1 (03:02):
We're not shilling for Benny. We actually use it and
love it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
We do.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
If you download it and use it Frugal Friends podcast
dot com slash Benny, we get a dollar. That's it,
so we truly, we truly use it, and that's why
we want to tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Awesome to truly just tell you about something that we
think is really.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But if you'd like to give us a dollar but
you can't like physically give us one, just download Benny
and it's like you have. Anyways, getting into this episode,
if you want to cueue up some good ones to
listen to later. Our recent episode with Amanda Montelle episode
three ninety seven, how cognitive biases cause us to overspend.
(03:47):
We talk a little at the end about these like
assumptions and they're essentially cognitive biases. So that's a really
good one to queue up. But then also episode eighty
three Overcoming emotional spending with Megan Dwyer, that could be
another good one.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Three three eighty three.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So sorry, so, but yeah, this is a really really
great if you I mean with there's so much power
in community. There's so much power in your network to
make better financial decisions. If we would just like connect
and not view it as a one sided what can
(04:27):
I get from you? There is so much beauty in
mutual connection and asking questions and answering questions, and so
that's essentially what Jeff has spent the last quarter of
a century kind of leading up to. He's He has
a doctorate in an Adult learning in leadership from Columbia.
(04:48):
He is the co CEO of Transcend, which is a
nationally recognized innovation organization, and he has served as management consultant,
learning facilitator, chief Learning officer. So so he is really
passionate about people learning, and so we've kind of taken
his wisdom and applied it into these into financial situations
(05:12):
that we experience. So, without further.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Ado, yeah, he's real great. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Jeff, Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. We are so
happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Thank you, and it's great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is particularly exciting for me because I love it
when we get to have conversations that feel a little
bit more adjacent to financial literacy, but really help us
for our whole lives, in our financial selves, but also
our whole selves because we know it's all connected. I
love questions. I love question asking. It's probably one of
(05:48):
the reasons that having guests is one of my favorite
things that we do on the podcast. So, yeah, thanks
for being here. Excited to share this with our audience.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
All right, so let's start out, like, what is the
app approach and why did you create it? Why is
it so important?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, So, the ask approach is a method for learning
from the people around us, and it starts with the
premise that we are surrounded by people in our lives,
whether our coworkers are friends, people we do business with, family,
et cetera. We are surrounded by people who know, think,
feel have ideas, have feedback, have perspectives that are incredibly valuable,
(06:31):
but that far too often we don't really find that out.
We don't tap into that insight that wisdom around us,
and they don't just tell us, and so there's a
lot of really important stuff that gets lost. I am
a total nerd and junkie about learning, and so anytime
that there is a mislearning opportunity, like for me, that's
(06:52):
almost like a micro tragedy. It's like we could have grown,
we could have gotten better, we could have done something
better together. And So when I have seen through all
different experiences in my life and my career, all these
mislearning opportunities, including myself experiencing them as well, I thought
to myself, what can we do about this? And so
the ask approach is a research, science backed, practice tested
(07:15):
way of radically increasing what we learn from other people.
And I'm happy to walk you through the steps if
that's helpful, Yeah, please do Okay, great. So there are
five practices that I call steps because they often go sequentially.
And the first one I call choosing curiosity. And many
of us think about curiosity as a trait like he
(07:37):
has it or she has it, someone else doesn't have it,
or a state of mind like I'm not feeling curious
or I'm feeling curious. But I'm positing a different possibility,
which is that curiosity is a choice. It's a decision
that we can always make that is always available to us.
And the way to make that decision is to center
one thing in our minds which is a question of
what can I learn from this person? Is there that
(08:00):
this person can actually teach me? And when we center
that question in our minds and we can talk more
about how to get ourselves curious, all of a sudden
we awaken ourselves to the possibility of what we can
learn from the person around us. So that's step one
choosing curiosity. The second thing is making it safe. Just
because we're curious doesn't guarantee that the person we're talking
(08:22):
to is actually going to feel safe telling us what
they have to say, especially if it feels hard, especially
if it's a hard truth, especially if they worry that
we might crumble, or we might take it out on them,
or it might hurt our relationship, etc. So making it
safe is all about creating the kind of connection, opening
ourselves up to be vulnerable so that they can see
that it's safe too, and really demonstrating to the other
person that we're resilient, that whatever they have to say
(08:45):
we can handle, and we're going to take responsibility for
our own reactions to what we hear. That's number two.
Make it safe. Three is pose quality questions, and this
is really at the heart of the ask approach. Which
is expanding the range of questions that we know how
to ask. I almost think about questions the same way
that like a surgeon might think about their scalpel and
(09:06):
different tools. We can be very precise about what it
is that we want to learn and therefore, what question
do we need to pose? And there are very few
of us actually get trained on what are quality questions
to ask. But there's a whole kind of taxonomy of
different questions and in the book I talk about that
and we can get into that as well. But once
you ask the question, it all comes down to how
well you listened. And we often think that we're better
(09:29):
at listening than we are. There's a difference between listening
and actually hearing what's most essential for someone to say,
and so listening to learn is really about hearing, really
what is at the heart of what someone else has
to teach us, whether they're actually saying it or not
saying it, And it's about expanding the range of channels
that we listen through not just the information that they
(09:50):
have to say, but also the emotion that they're conveying
and the actions that they're taking as well. So that's
the fourth step, and then the fifth step is really
my favorite because this is how we squeeze the learn
out of the whole thing. It's called reflect and reconnect,
and that's really processing what we heard actually, you know,
asking ourselves what's important from what we heard? What can
we let go of? And then in so far as
(10:11):
there are important things, what does that mean for how
I need to evolve and update my own thinking, my beliefs,
What actions should I take based on that? Is there
some deeper learning and growth in there? For me? That's
the difference between talk and talk that actually get somewhere.
But it's not enough just to do that reflection and
walk away. The final part of closing the loop is
to actually reconnect with the other person and to let
(10:33):
them know this is what I took away from our conversation,
and thank you, and by the way, did I get
it right? And what more? And that helps the other
person know they didn't waste their time, that you really
value them, and also just really increases the chances that
you're going to have that open communication to keep sharing
over time. So that's in a nutshell, the ask approach.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I love this because we are we're so conditioned to
be individualists, right we have to learn everything on our own.
We have to do everything on our own. That's almost
like where we find our worth is how well can
I do this on my own? How self sufficient can
I be? And this really does reconnect us to the
people around us and makes us exponentially better in.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Half the time, totally. And the thing that I think
is really important about this is it's not just about
connecting the people around us so that we personally can
be better, but the ask approach actually is mutual. It
makes us better together, It makes the other person better
as well. It helps the other person be more self expressed,
because if there's something that someone knows or is thinking
and not saying to us, first of all, that can
(11:37):
be a burden for them to be holding and keeping
it in. But sometimes they don't even know how much
value they have. And so when we're helping them to
share what they have to know, it's a good thing
for them, it's a good thing for our relationship. And
usually we make better decisions together, we collaborate better together,
we save ourselves time together, So it really is a
mutual mutual win.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
This is starting a few things for me. When I
hear how you're describing the ask approach. It sounds so beautiful,
and it sounds like what a lot of us, if
not all of us, do want out of relationships. I
think it can be one of the things introverts, especially
can complain about getting together with people like I don't
(12:18):
like surface level conversation, and I think totally most of
us don't. We just don't know how to get there
with people. So on the one hand, it's what we
all want, And on the other hand, it sounds like
a lot of intentionality, potentially a lot of work, And
it makes me wonder how others respond to this, because
(12:38):
this is not the norm to come to someone like you, Jeff,
and you dive into this ask approach, whether or not
they know that you're going through this cycle with them,
How are they responding to you?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Do you mean, how are people who are being asked
the question?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah, because it sounds like you're really trying to
make the most of a connection or an encounter, and
I don't think most people are accustomed to that. What
is the response typically?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean, so I'm really unpacking the whole pieces, the
whole set of practices and steps, but when it's put
into action, it doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, I'm
going through this and then this and then this. It
just feels natural and fluid. And usually when people are
really you know, on the on the receiving end of
curiosity and questions, it's something that brings them closer to
(13:27):
us that you know, there's lots of research even in
the dating realm that when someone that you're dating, when
you ask them questions, you actually are more attractive to them,
and you're more appealing to them because people want to
be asked, people want to share. There's also interesting research
that says a lot of people hold back from asking
because they think their questions are going to be too sensitive.
(13:47):
But really people want to be asked. Now, of course
there's there's limits to that, but you know, generally speaking,
it's a relief to be asked. It's you know, you're
helping somebody else get something out and sow. So many
of us don't get asked enough questions, and so I
think people appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah. In my work, my full time work, I am
a mental health professional, shifting a bit, but I provide
therapy to people. I ask a lot of questions. It's
primarily what I do in my work, but you're causing
me to realize something because I've been noticing recently. I
will also ask people a lot of questions in social settings,
(14:23):
but I'll get these kind of defensive reactions or responses
from people, And I think you connect at the dot
for me on this that maybe there's not perceived safety present,
whereas in a therapy setting there's already a knowing. People
understand what the setting is, they know who I am
to be asking them questions, but maybe not in a
(14:45):
social setting. So with all that said, when you described
the first step is curiosity and then safety, I'm curious
about this from a financial perspective. If we want to
be learning from other people or having this mutual extrame
change to be starting with curiosity, what does that look
like when trying to glean financial wisdom, which can be
(15:06):
a touchy topic, to then lean into safety. What would
you say about that?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, so, I think the first part of safety is
really about the connection that we have with somebody else,
and there's a lot of different ways to make connection.
One of the things that we sometimes overlook is even
just the when and where of the connection. I'll give
you an example that's not quite yet in the financial realm.
But we'll get to the financial realm with my daughter.
(15:34):
I have a teenage daughter, she's fifteen years old, and
when she comes home from school, I'm dying to know,
like how was your day, what happened, what you learn,
et cetera. If I ask her that when she comes
home from school, I get nothing. I get you know,
oh my god, dad, you know the eye roll or whatever.
But if I stay up till she's done with her
homework and done talking to her friends, which might be
eleven PM or eleven thirty PM, and I hang out
(15:56):
in her room with her, she doesn't want me to leave.
She wants to tell me everything. And so that is
her safe environment, Like that's and the key is that
it's what works for her, not what works for me.
And so a big part of safety is like the
when and the where of the connection. I imagine in a
therapy office, people are there for that purpose. So you've
got that going for you. But another really important part
(16:17):
of it is like opening up, explaining why am I
asking the question? Sometimes people you know are suspicious of
our agenda, like why is this person asked my other question?
Why are they being so Noathy why are they praying?
Et cetera, and so opening up either about here's why
I'm asking the question, or let me tell you like
my own experience of something like that can then invite
(16:38):
the reciprocity of somebody else sharing. Those are a couple
of ways to make it, to make it more safe.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
We're like ten minutes into this and I've already gone
so so much. I yeah, I feel like I when
I hear Jill say this, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
I love that You're so inquisitive. It's like hard for
me to hear that other people aren't obsessed with that too.
But then I realized, like I've been working with Jill
(17:04):
for six years and so she's I know she's safe,
but so how does somebody kind of get over that
hump like before creating safety, Like what should we be
even be thinking about? Like who do we approach, how
do like what you were saying earlier, how do we
like choose that to be curious, how do we make
that choice? And what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I really think it is. It starts
with the assumption that everybody has something to teach us.
There's something really important. I mean, just to start to
connect it a little bit to the world of money.
I was thinking about this this morning. A couple of years.
By the way, I love I love the name of
your podcast, because I'm a very frugal person. And I
(17:48):
had a car I don't know, for like fifteen sixteen
years and it was like on its last legs. And
I was at a mechanic and the air conditioning had
totally busted. And he was telling me, He's like, I
think this is going to cost you like three or
four thousand dollars to fix. And I'm like, I don't
think the car is worth three or four thousand dollars.
What are we going to do here out of a summer?
And it was like, you know, very humand and I couldn't.
(18:10):
I couldn't just have no air conditioning. And so at
that point I thought to myself, like, get curious, here,
is there anything more? And so I just said to him, like,
is there any other way besides this three or four
thousand dollars fix that you can think of giving your
expertise that we could solve this problem. And I think
some people might think, well, that's you know that are
you By questioning his judgment and he just tell me
(18:31):
the answer or that kind of thing. But I just
thought maybe there's something else and he would know a
lot better than I would. And he said, you know,
I've been thinking about that question, and I actually do think.
He's like, if I just fuse this one piece instead
of trying to fix the leak over here, I could
probably do it for like seventy five dollars. And I
was like, well, that's fine with me, because if one
air conditioning event out of the six is off, we're
still going to be good enough. And so that's what
(18:52):
we did. And but it was really about just kind
of starting with that curiosity, recognizing he knows a lot
more than I know, and also not that I'm not
you know. And I think part of the safety is
I wasn't trying to say like I'm doubting you, you're
trying to rip me off, I'm questioning your judgment, but like,
let's just think together here. Is there some other way
that we could that we could get this done? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Absolutely, And we say it's so so much that frugality
is essentially giving your spouse your self space to get creative,
to get but first you have to be curious in
order to explore all the ways that you could be creative,
so exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think this is also like as an introvert, I
get nervous about like, well maybe that person, Like I
don't want to ever be a burden to somebody. And
I know, like when you were saying, like people want
to share, they want to be asked, like that was
speaking to me, But like, how does someone maybe who
doesn't want to like impose on somebody that maybe they
(19:53):
think maybe a little too highly of. I know, like
we're all this, you know, we're all people, but like
there are some people that I'm just like I'm so
nervous to ask or to talk to or like, is
there a way like we can get over that hump
and like really get some like really good mentorship and
relationships started.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I have two thoughts. One is we could do an experiment.
So I think a lot of us hold ourselves back
because we assume we're right that they're not going to
have time for us, so they're not going to talk
to us, et cetera. And the only way we can
know is to test. And I think part of that
is getting curious ourselves and saying like, what if my
assumption is not right? What would happen? And what's the
(20:35):
worst thing that could happen if I tested that? And
so one way would be to just you know, dip
a toe in the water and see what happens. And
the worst thing that happens is they don't answer our
question or they don't have time. But the other thing
we can do that is even I think lower stakes
than that, is we can ask, if we can ask,
would you mind if I asked you a question? Would
you have a few minutes for me to pick your
brain on this kind of thing? And then we're not
(20:57):
even going there to ask the question yet, but it's
essentially we're using the skills of ask just to test
out would they be willing to even talk to us?
And I think, you know, sometimes people will say no,
and we can respect that, but a lot of times
people say, of course, let me know, And so it
can feel even safer for ourselves just to inquire would
you be open to talking about this?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, when it comes to identifying somebody who we want
to be able to ask, especially financial questions. So this
is you've mentioned some of the touchy subjects and finding
the when and the where and the how. So if
we are beginning to identify, Yeah, I think I'm starting
to build up some bravery to be able to engage
(21:40):
in this type of process with somebody. I want to
know they seem like they might have some wisdom for me,
and maybe there's something I can offer to them. What
could we be asking, do you think what are some
of the best questions we can be diving in with
and or how can we make sure that the plate
(22:00):
that the space is safe to be able to do that?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, In terms of making sure that the space is safe,
I think a lot of it comes back to letting
them know how much we value them, letting them know what,
you know, what we're hoping to get out and why,
letting them know what their advice would mean to us,
but also letting them know that even and I call
(22:24):
this radiating resilience, even if they say something hard to us,
we can handle it that and and if something comes
up for us, we're not going to hold them responsible
for our own reactions, including things that they might want
to push us on as well. And we can even say,
like I really would welcome your you know your your
your most critical pushes your toughest feedback. You're you know,
you're even if even if you think it might be
(22:46):
hard for me to hear, I'm really interested in hearing
that those kinds of things can let people know, Okay,
I can I can take some risks with this person.
They're asking me for it, they're interested in going there
that kind of thing. In terms of the actual questions,
the uh, there's a bunch, but I'll give you a
few different examples. One is a sequence of questions that
(23:08):
is really about digging deeper. So it can start by
saying to them, you know, what is your take on this?
It would this be a good direction for me to go,
Should I spend money on this? Should I make this investment?
Et cetera. But digging deeper is really about saying what
leads you to think that? Tell me why how did
you reach that conclusion? And so really not just stopping
at their advice, but getting underneath, well, you know, what's
(23:31):
the concern that you that you're trying to solve for
with that, with that perspective, et cetera. And then to
even go one step further is something that I call
see what they see, telling them like here are here
are I'm sure you have some stories. I'm sure you
have some experiences, like what data, what information? What experience is?
(23:52):
What stories leads you to have that? And then all
of a sudden, you're not just getting their opinion or
even their reasoning, you're getting their wealth of life experience.
That act actually informs that as well. So that'd be
one kind of set of categories. A second one that
I would talk about is requesting reactions. And this is
something I think that we all do too infrequently. We
(24:16):
often will put our view out there and say, you know,
I'm contemplating this, or I think this is the right
way to go, or I don't think we should spend
money on this, or whatever it is, and then we
just assume if they have a reaction, they're going to
tell us what their reaction is. But so often people
don't tell us their reactions, maybe because they don't think
we care or interest in those reactions. Maybe it's because
it feels hard for them to say maybe they're still
processing them, whatever it may be. But by requesting reactions,
(24:39):
we can invite that, so it can it can literally
be as simple as to say, he like, here's what
I think, what's your reaction to that. How does that
land with you? What does that make you think? What
might I be missing? What might be overlooking what's the
downside I'm not thinking about. Those are the kinds of
things that can invite reactions that we otherwise wouldn't hear.
That also really pulls out people's you know, people's ideas,
(25:00):
insights and wisdom. And then I'll just share one last one,
which is just simply it's the same story that goes
back to the story I mentioned with the car mechanic,
which is called invite ideas, and that's literally saying like, well,
here's my dilemma, what ideas do you have for how
we can handle that? And I don't know if I
hadn't asked that mechanic for ideas, if I would have
(25:20):
gotten that idea. And so a lot of times people
have ideas, but they're not necessarily sure we want to
hear them, or they may not have even kind of
put all the pieces together in their own mind. But
when you invite ideas, all of a sudden, you're bringing
out all kinds of creativity that you wouldn't have necessarily
otherwise gotten to.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I mean you have to genuinely then be interested
in what people have to say. And I think that
that can be some of the problems for some people
is they don't want to take the time, they may
not actually be interested in what another person has to say.
But man, what an amazing approach to have and what
(25:57):
a much better life could be living if we were
to engage in this type of thing. Side question for you,
Jeff are, what would you say are some of the
top benefits you've seen in your life through some of
these questions you're describing and the way that you are
approaching people.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, I think there's three main benefits that I see
and that I've also seen lots of other people get
when they use this approach. The first is just like
hardcore results, like smarter decisions, more innovative solutions, saving time,
avoiding wasting, wasting time, being you know, finding out faster
(26:37):
if my ideas or plans are not going to work,
you know, getting better ideas. All of that I would
put in the bucket of like just better results. The
second I would say is relationships people. As we talked
about before, people want to be asked, and when I
ask questions to people, I learned things about them, and
that makes us closer. And so like my personal relationships,
(26:58):
my work relationship i'm co CEO of an organization, like
my partnerships with you, with my co founder, are just
deeper because of this. And then the third is learning.
Like I learn faster, I grow faster, I correct my
mistakes faster, I you know, solve for mistaken assumptions that
I have made, et cetera. So like results, relationship and learning,
(27:20):
I think are the most important benefits that something like
the ask approach can can help us get.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I can co sign that one, because especially in finances,
particularly in investing, this has always been an area that
I'm just inept at. I'm not that interested in it,
and I feel dumb when I talk about it. So
I don't want to dig in deeper. But I think
(27:46):
through safety of relationship with Jen being able to just
ask okay, now that there's established safety, I've been able
to say I'm okay failing in front of you or
potentially asking a dumb question of you, and I do
care enough about my future at this point, and it
has radically changed the trajectory of what retirement is going
(28:08):
to look like for me. Just one example of what
you're describing results being in the midst of relationship and learning. Yeah,
I guess all three of them have happened in just
that one piece.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, And it wasn't like all at once. It started
like almost as a commiseration, like we're we're just we're
thinking about what retirement accounts and investing and index funds
all look like together. And then as you know, our
relationship grows and like things come back up, then we're
(28:40):
talking more about it and then asking each other different
questions and so like I think when I think about
this sometimes I assume it's like all in one fell swoop,
like you're asking, like what is your you know, background
with investing, what would you do you hear? But a
lot of that, I mean, and it comes back to
the safety, which I had no idea that's the direction
(29:01):
this episode would go. But like it's such a good
like and right place, Like it comes back to the
safety and being like it's not all like I'm asking
for I'm asking from you, but this is a like
mutually beneficial like interaction and not just like and we
(29:23):
go beyond small talk to do things that will really
benefit both of us.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's not an an interrogation apart.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's it's not extractive just about me, it's really about us.
It's a very we we approach to connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes, okay, so we've we've really dove in on the
ask approach with other people, which I think is it's
what your book is mainly about, and I think everyone
should read it not just for finances, because it goes
into like so many great things, but so like, how
do you think we could use the ask approach on
ourselves to learn more about ourselves? Because we're right, a
(30:00):
book on spending, and so a lot of this stuff
we are looking into is like, how can we get
more curious about ourselves? How can we ask ourselves better
questions so that we know what we value spending money
on and what we don't like. Do you see have
you used the ask approach on yourself with any great benefits?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Well? And I think that the ask approach entails inquiring
into ourselves as part of really learning from other people
as well. So I think your point and your question
is super relevant and it really connects a lot to
the first step of choosing curiosity, because part of choosing
curiosity is also being curious about the stories that we
(30:41):
have ourselves, and we are constantly telling ourselves stories about
other people, about the world, about money, about ourselves, about
what's going on in this situation, et cetera. And so
a lot of what I talk about actually in the
chapter of Choosing curiosity is becoming aware of our own
stories and asking ourselves where did those stories come from?
(31:04):
And what information am I selecting in this particular situation.
Because usually whenever we walk into a situation, we are
you know, there's we're surrounded by tons and tons of
data points and information, and we just zero in on
a tiny slice of that and forget everything else, and
we even forget that we forgot the rest of that stuff,
and so we just think that tiny slice is the reality,
and then we just jump right to conclusions about here's
(31:26):
how it goes. And those conclusions usually just reinforce the
assumptions that we brought in in the first place. So
if like, and I will say like as a you know,
to connect it to my own life experience as it
relates to money. You know, I've grown up an internalized
kind of I said, a frugal mindset, but maybe also
like a like what if what if something goes wrong?
Mindset and and that can get me to a scarcity mindset,
(31:49):
et cetera. And so, anytime I'm thinking about a financial situation,
whether in work or in life, like my first go
to is like, what's the risk that's happening in this situation?
And if I play out this risk, like what's the
bad scenario? And you know, I think that has served
me well in some ways because I've been able to
avoid bad things happening. But it can come at the
expense of a more abundance way of looking at life
(32:09):
and scenarios and all that kind of stuff. And so
I have had to walk myself back and say, where
does that come from? And what is that about? And
what would be other things that I could look at
in a situation when I'm confronting a money decision, not
just the risk, but also what's the possible upside that's
going on here? And also what are the like the
sub choice points that can help me move between the
risk and the upside, et cetera. And So by asking
(32:32):
ourselves those kinds of questions, I think we get a
lot of insight into where our stories come from. But
also we do what I call injecting question marks into
our stories, and when we can inject question marks into
our stories, those question marks can push away the anxiety
that we might be feeling otherwise, so they can make
us calmer. But they can also that make us so
(32:52):
much more receptive to learning with and from other people too.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Oh, I don't know if I've ever said what I'm
about to say. I would encourage everybody to rewind and
write down those questions that you just rattled off about
what we can be asking for ourselves. One of the
things that I love about curiosity, A true curiosity and
its best form is it doesn't assume an answer. So
(33:19):
a lot of times when we do look inward, it
might be in a more shaming or an assumptive way.
A lot of times we'll ask ourselves why we'll get
on the defense with ourselves. But every single question that
you asked was true curiosity. Hmm, what is that about.
I'm not going to assume what the ending is. I'm
going to truly ask myself and be willing to look
(33:43):
and find something that maybe I wouldn't have thought the
answer to be. And what a world opens in front
of us as a result of that. So I'm just
highlighting and emphasizing because thank you, you gave really excellent questions,
so feel free listener, rewind and write it down. And
(34:03):
speaking of good questions, I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
We got we got yeah, we got one for your
favorite question.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
It's the bill of the week. That's right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Maybe you've paid off your.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy to not
have to pay that bill anymore. Buck bills, Buffalo bills,
Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week, Jeff.
Every week we yell at our guests to share with
us what we think is the most quality question we
ask on this show. What is your bill of the week.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Have you ever heard of Bill Nay, the science guy?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yes, Okay, so he is. He is my favorite Bill,
and I think he's the embodiment of curiosity. He's the
embodiment of experimentation and trying things out. And he has
a famous quote which says, everybody you meet knows something
you don't. Hmmm. And to me, that is the essence
(35:22):
of the ask approach. It's basically to say there is
wisdom and every single person we can learn from every
single person, and so Bill Nye is my hero in
that way.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I love that because sometimes we can think like everybody
knows something that we don't, and we can almost use
that as like a defense mechanism to kind of be bitter.
But if you just reframe it with this ask approach,
it can be something so life giving, like everyone knows
something I don't. There is so much possibility for me
(35:52):
to grow and I know something that they don't, and
a rising tide will lift all our boats exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's then't have to be a bad thing that they
know something that we don't. In fact, what a gift,
what an opportunity, what an asset? And it's normal because
it's just how the world is.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I'm remembering that Bill ny would also do like ask
these questions in his science experiments where he might have
obviously known what was going to happen, but he acted
like he didn't at different times. And it's striking me
now as something endearing and an approach that we can
all kind of take. Like if you're saying everyone knows
(36:29):
something we don't, then that would apply to kids too,
and people you would think, oh, they don't know as
much as me. Maybe not, but they definitely know something
you don't.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Which absolutely yes. There's a chapter in the book actually
on how to raise and educate curious question askers as kids,
and one of the most important things is to model
that curiosity for our kids, which means saying in front
of our own kids, Wow, what a great question. I
have no idea. How could we find out the answer
to that question? And the more that we model that,
(37:02):
the more that we let them know it's not only okay,
but it's a good thing to be curious, because kids
do what they see their parents doing.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, and it's okay that not everyone has the answer
immediately that you'll always you know, for most of the
time have to get creative to find the answer.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I say that to my four year old all the time, like,
that's a great question, I have no idea, And I
think now he's just starting to think, like maybe I
should ask my other parent. He's starting to problem solve creatively.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
But stick with that. I think it will still benefit
in his curiosity. He'll turn into a question, you know,
he'll stay curious. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Unfortunately, sometimes it stops there for me, like I don't know, well,
not voting well for us. If you all listening have
a bill that you want to submit, it is about
Bill and I the science guy or you are Bill
Ny the science guy. You know to do because a
Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us your bill.
(38:04):
We're ready for it. And now it's time for the
lightning around.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
All right? So oh I love this one.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So today's lightning round, our vulnerability round. What is the
most interesting question you've ever been asked? It can be
the weirdest, hardest, best, whatever, it's it's your choice. Jeff
will let you go first.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I need a minute. I didn't come prepared for this question.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Okay, we we did.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Okay, I'll go first. So this is I brought my
phone to prepare for this. Oh here, it's back here.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So in my career, I have gotten so many emails
like reader and listener emails and they are lovely, and
so I got this one and the actual question and
it'll make sense in context. But the actual question is
(39:07):
would you be against holding a chat or call discussing
your business in detail and the game plan? Okay? But
the context is I got this email titled the Devil
and angel, and it is a picture of a guy
who has super imposed his face on an angel and
a devil on each shoulder and just says, the devil
(39:31):
told me don't email him, it might skyrock at his sales.
But the angel on my right shoulder said, be a
man of God and spread the game plan.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And there's a lot of other but essentially that question
I didn't. I mean, I know, it's like they did
some photoshop, you know, like it's a good I don't
know if you can see it, Jeff, but like.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
That is impressive. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So that's my favorite question because of the context.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I love how we call it vulnerability round and then
we just say silly things. You can take it deep
unrrible launch.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, well, I was thinking, I so I mentioned my daughter.
I also have a son who's seventeen, and particularly with
the age that he's in, he is questioning me a
lot about everything, And probably one of the best questions
I've got recently is like, why would you ever think
that's a good idea from my son? Which you know,
I probably wouldn't put in the category of quality questions
(40:31):
in my book, but I actually think he meant it
literally and I remember when I was seventeen, I thought
I knew a lot more than my parents and all
that kind of thing. But when I actually sat with
his question, I thought, you know, let me think about that,
because he you know, he makes some good points, and
I'm going to take it seriously. So why would you
(40:51):
ever think that's a good idea? It's probably my most
recent vulnerable question.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Did you come back with a slide show like a
slide deck, being like, this is why I would ever
think that.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
This is a good idea. I'm still working on it.
I'm still building it, making air tight case.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yes, he is asking for more of a reasoning behind it,
just in the kindest There.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Is the safety that he could ask.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, he's not in helping the safe space, but he's
getting there.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
That's reminding me of one. So that's going to make
me share too. But speaking of kids questions, there was
this little girl. She was probably seven at the time
that she asked me this question, and she must not
have met many people like me, but she asked, am
I a teenager or am I a mother? Like those
(41:42):
are the only two options for her. I'm either a teenager?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Are you a teenage?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
More?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Mother? And I'm like, I'm neither. I'm I'm an adult
woman without children. It was not computing for her. She
was from a big family. She probably has only ever
seen moms. Adult women are moms. Or you can have
an older looking girl who's just a teenager. She just no, no, no,
(42:07):
but are you a teenager? Or are you a mom?
The poor girl I blew her mind that day. Anyways,
the one that I did want to say that relates
to the podcast. So speaking of the bill of the
week that we just put you through, there was one
time early on that we got a caller who just said,
who is?
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Well, it was a text. We weren't using speak pipe.
We were using like the Google voice number so that
you could text that number, right.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I remember it being yeah, we read it, but I
thought maybe it was transcribed. But that was it. They
texted the bill of the week line, just who is.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And we know what.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
We used it the early days and we didn't have
a lot of you know, bills of the week, and
so it definitely we used it.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And it's us. Yeah, our answer is it?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Jill?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Who disit us?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yes? You could take that question to a very deep level.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yes, who are we? Very true, Jeff. Well, if people
want to take this conversation to a deeper level, where
can they get more from you?
Speaker 1 (43:14):
She's a queen it seguez.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
I love that segue. So the website is www dot
ask Approach dot com and the book is called Ask
Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People around You, which
you can get anywhere you can get books, and they
can also follow us on Instagram at ask Approach.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Beautiful. Thank you Jeff for sharing your wisdom today.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Oh, thank you for your great questions. It was really
fun to talk with you, all right, that was so good.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, ooh, that was really good. I think the conversation
on safety is going to be really valuable because it
can feel so one sided to be seeking information from people,
(44:05):
but there are ways to make it a safe space
to where people want to share and actually benefit from sharing.
There are so many and I want to like direct
this specifically to women because I know that's the majority
of our audience and I've just kind of been thinking
on this, but like, there are so many women with
(44:25):
gifts that don't know that what they have is special
and or maybe have heard it but don't yet believe it.
And the more we tell people. What you have is
a gift? Can you share it with me? The more
we help people succeed and realize their full potential. And
(44:47):
I think as women we cannot gatekeep the gifts that
we have because in business settings, c suite men have
been networking and leveraging networks and seeking to identify like
the places in the room where they can learn, and
(45:08):
that's just felt so foreign to us.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, well sometimes I'm just tired.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
But I mean I can also feel inauthentic too. We
want to create real relationships. We're not looking to leverage
business connections, right, but that comes at the detriment of
we're also nervous to you know, extract or squeeze information
out of people, But there are safe ways to do
(45:37):
it that build both people in the relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Up agreed, Yeah, that safety one was key for me.
Making it's not just about asking questions. It's also making
sure that the setting is right and that people understand
why you're asking it, what's the motive behind it? Can
you give more contexts and make it more of an exchange,
more reciprocity.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
And I think one of the great I mean, the
one of the key takeaways I took is like starting
with vulnerability is like putting out just I mean not
getting like you know, spilly and spilling your guts out,
but like start with a little piece of vulnerability and
that does really put out like safe space vibes.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yeah, So thank you so much for listening. I hope
that you got something out of this and that you
are going to take this and you're going to build
better relationships, relationships that are mutually beneficial and help you
get just get more out of life. And thank you
for sending sweet emails about the friend letter. We want
to share this one specifically, and this is for Misty.
(46:44):
I don't know if you guys know, but we no
longer write the emails. Misty and Kim, our frugal friends
are writing them now. And we got this one from
Erica that says, this email from Misty resonated with me
because I did not redeem my Sephora or to birthday
gifts last year. This was an email about birthday freebies.
(47:04):
I'm sure I missed some more other than those. I
do think we need to plan out how to maximize
our birthday rewards. I wonder if someone's made a checklist
of birthday rewards for National Change Chains. Thanks for making
Monday a little brighter. Happy Monday, Erica. I did email you,
but I wanted to share this for everyone else. The
Crazy cubeon Lady has a list of over one hundred
(47:27):
and so I actually you'll be seeing this very soon
because my birthday is in two days from this release.
I have made a list and signed up for a
bunch like twelve of the freebies on that list from
Crazy cubon Lady, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Gonna do I'm going to do this.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I'm going to chronicle myself on my birthday. That's getting
my birthday freebies. So stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yay, getting my birthday freebies. Thanks Erica for your email,
and thanks everybody for tuning in listening again if you
want those freebees, savings tips, values based spending hacks sent
to your email. If you want to get stuff from
Misty and Kim and us girlfriendspodcast dot com, see yah.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric sirianni.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Okay. I had a very scary question this morning, checking
of questions. All right, you were here for it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I was I experienced this? You catastrophizing at your finest.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yes, Oh my gosh, yes, yes, I am prone to that.
I will amplify situation if it can be amplified. And
the question came from my husband Eric, who walked into
the kitchen and said, is this a flea? Actually, he said.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Are these flea?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Because there weren't two of them. He puts them on
our white counter. They're hopping around. Jen from ten feet
away is able to say, yep, absolutely, yep. I'm not
even close to them, and I can see them hopping around.
They fleees. They jump like a flea, they look like
a flea. They're fleas. And so here we are over here,
(49:24):
me and my husband Eric, because if you remember from
the episode, I do not have children. I'm not a
teenager or a mother. I don't have children, and I
do not have pets, and yet I have fleas in
my house.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Well, you traveled with somebody who had fleas. Well, their
dog had fleas and the fleas.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
The dog was not with us.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
The dog was not with us, but the owners of
the dog were with us. And m h, I think
that now we have a dog. I don't know, like
I feel like we get the worst of like the
things of people, like people love having dogs and children
and they get all the perks and we get all
(50:08):
the like peripheral cons like oh yeah, we don't have
a dog, but we have fleas. We don't have kids,
but we get their sicknesses. Like I don't know what
to do. Yeah here, well I mean I need to
be a teenager instead.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, or yeah, it's but your house is pretty sterile,
like you clean a lot, you have very little fabric furniture.
You there will not be a lot of places for
them to live.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I hope. So yeah, smoke them out, baby, Yeah, I think.
But I did not love that. I actually hated it.
Hated that question, the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
It was an intense like it was an intense morning.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I don't got time for that.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
We just hire.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
We have a book due in two and a half weeks,
and we do not have time for fleas. I don't
have time for Jill to have fleas.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
And don't sit too close to me.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Later, she's like, maybe you should leave, and I was like,
I can't leave, like I have to be here. You
didn't have to go on vacation, but I have to
be here, so don't give me please. I also don't
have a dog, and my children do not have fleas.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
So.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Don't don't. I ain't got time. No one has time.
Episode four oh four, asking questions that lead to better
spending with Jeff Wetsler. Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast,
where you'll learn to save money, embrace simplicity and life.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Here your hosts.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Jen and Jill. Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name
is Jen, my name is Jill, and today we have
an exceptionally good interview with Jeff Wetsler. He is the
author of the Ask approach. Well, he is the creator
of the Ask Approach and author of the new book
(00:42):
Ask and It. The The interview was fantastic. It went
in a direction I didn't even plan for it to go.
That was so much more than I could have planned for.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I love an organic development of goodies. It's the best thing.
You can never recreate it, but it's a good journey.
We're so glad you're here for that journey because we
believe that this conversation can be fruitful and beneficial for
just your whole life and definitely your approach and understanding
(01:16):
of finances. So stick with us. But first, this episode
is brought to you by Deals with a Z, the
kind that really jazz us up those once in a
lifetime more than a marketing ploy deals where you almost
feel like you stole. If this is the kind of
stuff you're into, you gotta try Benny. It's a browser
(01:39):
extension that scours the Internet for the exact clothing or
accessory or shoe item that you're searching for on secondhand
sites like threadup, eBay and more. So you can let
Benny help you score some of these deals with a
Z on the stuff you're already looking for. Frugal Friends
(02:00):
podcast dot Com slash Benny, that's b ni.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Benny is my dream extension because I do not like
going into thrift stores, but I do love shopping online
and I want to shop secondhand, but for the same
reasons I don't like shopping secondhand online. I don't like
being in the thrift stores because it's like a hunt.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I think it is so in line with our affordable
quality versus cheap quantity. New Year k new us the
approach too, and especially for those of us who are
beginning to research the brands that are sustainable or long lasting,
or the types of fabric that you want to be wearing,
then going to a thrift store can be hit or miss.
(02:44):
You might not know. Sometimes you can score a really
great thing. But if you are the type of person
who knows I want this color jacket in this size
from Patagonia, Benny can help you find if it exists
currently as a slightly used gently Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
We're not shilling for Benny. We actually use it and
love it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
We do.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
If you download it and use it Frugal Friends podcast
dot com slash Benny, we get a dollar. That's it,
so we truly, we truly use it, and that's why
we want to tell you about it.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Awesome to truly just tell you about something that we
think is really.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But if you'd like to give us a dollar but
you can't like physically give us one, just download Benny
and it's like you have. Anyways, getting into this episode,
if you want to cueue up some good ones to
listen to later. Our recent episode with Amanda Montelle episode
three ninety seven, how cognitive biases cause us to overspend.
(03:47):
We talk a little at the end about these like
assumptions and they're essentially cognitive biases. So that's a really
good one to queue up. But then also episode eighty
three Overcoming emotional spending with Megan Dwyer, that could be
another good one.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Three three eighty three.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So sorry, so, but yeah, this is a really really
great if you I mean with there's so much power
in community. There's so much power in your network to
make better financial decisions. If we would just like connect
and not view it as a one sided what can
(04:27):
I get from you? There is so much beauty in
mutual connection and asking questions and answering questions, and so
that's essentially what Jeff has spent the last quarter of
a century kind of leading up to. He's He has
a doctorate in an Adult learning in leadership from Columbia.
(04:48):
He is the co CEO of Transcend, which is a
nationally recognized innovation organization, and he has served as management consultant,
learning facilitator, chief Learning officer. So so he is really
passionate about people learning, and so we've kind of taken
his wisdom and applied it into these into financial situations
(05:12):
that we experience. So, without further.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Ado, yeah, he's real great. Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Jeff, Welcome to the Frugal Friends Podcast. We are so
happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Thank you, and it's great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
This is particularly exciting for me because I love it
when we get to have conversations that feel a little
bit more adjacent to financial literacy, but really help us
for our whole lives, in our financial selves, but also
our whole selves because we know it's all connected. I
love questions. I love question asking. It's probably one of
(05:48):
the reasons that having guests is one of my favorite
things that we do on the podcast. So, yeah, thanks
for being here. Excited to share this with our audience.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
All right, so let's start out, like, what is the
app approach and why did you create it? Why is
it so important?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, So, the ask approach is a method for learning
from the people around us, and it starts with the
premise that we are surrounded by people in our lives,
whether our coworkers are friends, people we do business with, family,
et cetera. We are surrounded by people who know, think,
feel have ideas, have feedback, have perspectives that are incredibly valuable,
(06:31):
but that far too often we don't really find that out.
We don't tap into that insight that wisdom around us,
and they don't just tell us, and so there's a
lot of really important stuff that gets lost. I am
a total nerd and junkie about learning, and so anytime
that there is a mislearning opportunity, like for me, that's
(06:52):
almost like a micro tragedy. It's like we could have grown,
we could have gotten better, we could have done something
better together. And So when I have seen through all
different experiences in my life and my career, all these
mislearning opportunities, including myself experiencing them as well, I thought
to myself, what can we do about this? And so
the ask approach is a research, science backed, practice tested
(07:15):
way of radically increasing what we learn from other people.
And I'm happy to walk you through the steps if
that's helpful, Yeah, please do Okay, great. So there are
five practices that I call steps because they often go sequentially.
And the first one I call choosing curiosity. And many
of us think about curiosity as a trait like he
(07:37):
has it or she has it, someone else doesn't have it,
or a state of mind like I'm not feeling curious
or I'm feeling curious. But I'm positing a different possibility,
which is that curiosity is a choice. It's a decision
that we can always make that is always available to us.
And the way to make that decision is to center
one thing in our minds which is a question of
what can I learn from this person? Is there that
(08:00):
this person can actually teach me? And when we center
that question in our minds and we can talk more
about how to get ourselves curious, all of a sudden
we awaken ourselves to the possibility of what we can
learn from the person around us. So that's step one
choosing curiosity. The second thing is making it safe. Just
because we're curious doesn't guarantee that the person we're talking
(08:22):
to is actually going to feel safe telling us what
they have to say, especially if it feels hard, especially
if it's a hard truth, especially if they worry that
we might crumble, or we might take it out on them,
or it might hurt our relationship, etc. So making it
safe is all about creating the kind of connection, opening
ourselves up to be vulnerable so that they can see
that it's safe too, and really demonstrating to the other
person that we're resilient, that whatever they have to say
(08:45):
we can handle, and we're going to take responsibility for
our own reactions to what we hear. That's number two.
Make it safe. Three is pose quality questions, and this
is really at the heart of the ask approach. Which
is expanding the range of questions that we know how
to ask. I almost think about questions the same way
that like a surgeon might think about their scalpel and
(09:06):
different tools. We can be very precise about what it
is that we want to learn and therefore, what question
do we need to pose? And there are very few
of us actually get trained on what are quality questions
to ask. But there's a whole kind of taxonomy of
different questions and in the book I talk about that
and we can get into that as well. But once
you ask the question, it all comes down to how
well you listened. And we often think that we're better
(09:29):
at listening than we are. There's a difference between listening
and actually hearing what's most essential for someone to say,
and so listening to learn is really about hearing, really
what is at the heart of what someone else has
to teach us, whether they're actually saying it or not
saying it, And it's about expanding the range of channels
that we listen through not just the information that they
(09:50):
have to say, but also the emotion that they're conveying
and the actions that they're taking as well. So that's
the fourth step, and then the fifth step is really
my favorite because this is how we squeeze the learn
out of the whole thing. It's called reflect and reconnect,
and that's really processing what we heard actually, you know,
asking ourselves what's important from what we heard? What can
we let go of? And then in so far as
(10:11):
there are important things, what does that mean for how
I need to evolve and update my own thinking, my beliefs,
What actions should I take based on that? Is there
some deeper learning and growth in there? For me? That's
the difference between talk and talk that actually get somewhere.
But it's not enough just to do that reflection and
walk away. The final part of closing the loop is
to actually reconnect with the other person and to let
(10:33):
them know this is what I took away from our conversation,
and thank you, and by the way, did I get
it right? And what more? And that helps the other
person know they didn't waste their time, that you really
value them, and also just really increases the chances that
you're going to have that open communication to keep sharing
over time. So that's in a nutshell, the ask approach.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I love this because we are we're so conditioned to
be individualists, right we have to learn everything on our own.
We have to do everything on our own. That's almost
like where we find our worth is how well can
I do this on my own? How self sufficient can
I be? And this really does reconnect us to the
people around us and makes us exponentially better in.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Half the time, totally. And the thing that I think
is really important about this is it's not just about
connecting the people around us so that we personally can
be better, but the ask approach actually is mutual. It
makes us better together, It makes the other person better
as well. It helps the other person be more self expressed,
because if there's something that someone knows or is thinking
and not saying to us, first of all, that can
(11:37):
be a burden for them to be holding and keeping
it in. But sometimes they don't even know how much
value they have. And so when we're helping them to
share what they have to know, it's a good thing
for them, it's a good thing for our relationship. And
usually we make better decisions together, we collaborate better together,
we save ourselves time together, So it really is a
mutual mutual win.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
This is starting a few things for me. When I
hear how you're describing the ask approach. It sounds so beautiful,
and it sounds like what a lot of us, if
not all of us, do want out of relationships. I
think it can be one of the things introverts, especially
can complain about getting together with people like I don't
(12:18):
like surface level conversation, and I think totally most of
us don't. We just don't know how to get there
with people. So on the one hand, it's what we
all want, And on the other hand, it sounds like
a lot of intentionality, potentially a lot of work, And
it makes me wonder how others respond to this, because
(12:38):
this is not the norm to come to someone like you, Jeff,
and you dive into this ask approach, whether or not
they know that you're going through this cycle with them,
How are they responding to you?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Do you mean, how are people who are being asked
the question?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, yeah, because it sounds like you're really trying to
make the most of a connection or an encounter, and
I don't think most people are accustomed to that. What
is the response typically?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I mean, so I'm really unpacking the whole pieces, the
whole set of practices and steps, but when it's put
into action, it doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, I'm
going through this and then this and then this. It
just feels natural and fluid. And usually when people are
really you know, on the on the receiving end of
curiosity and questions, it's something that brings them closer to
(13:27):
us that you know, there's lots of research even in
the dating realm that when someone that you're dating, when
you ask them questions, you actually are more attractive to them,
and you're more appealing to them because people want to
be asked, people want to share. There's also interesting research
that says a lot of people hold back from asking
because they think their questions are going to be too sensitive.
(13:47):
But really people want to be asked. Now, of course
there's there's limits to that, but you know, generally speaking,
it's a relief to be asked. It's you know, you're
helping somebody else get something out and sow. So many
of us don't get asked enough questions, and so I
think people appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah. In my work, my full time work, I am
a mental health professional, shifting a bit, but I provide
therapy to people. I ask a lot of questions. It's
primarily what I do in my work, but you're causing
me to realize something because I've been noticing recently. I
will also ask people a lot of questions in social settings,
(14:23):
but I'll get these kind of defensive reactions or responses
from people, And I think you connect at the dot
for me on this that maybe there's not perceived safety present,
whereas in a therapy setting there's already a knowing. People
understand what the setting is, they know who I am
to be asking them questions, but maybe not in a
(14:45):
social setting. So with all that said, when you described
the first step is curiosity and then safety, I'm curious
about this from a financial perspective. If we want to
be learning from other people or having this mutual extrame
change to be starting with curiosity, what does that look
like when trying to glean financial wisdom, which can be
(15:06):
a touchy topic, to then lean into safety. What would
you say about that?
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, so, I think the first part of safety is
really about the connection that we have with somebody else,
and there's a lot of different ways to make connection.
One of the things that we sometimes overlook is even
just the when and where of the connection. I'll give
you an example that's not quite yet in the financial realm.
But we'll get to the financial realm with my daughter.
(15:34):
I have a teenage daughter, she's fifteen years old, and
when she comes home from school, I'm dying to know,
like how was your day, what happened, what you learn,
et cetera. If I ask her that when she comes
home from school, I get nothing. I get you know,
oh my god, dad, you know the eye roll or whatever.
But if I stay up till she's done with her
homework and done talking to her friends, which might be
eleven PM or eleven thirty PM, and I hang out
(15:56):
in her room with her, she doesn't want me to leave.
She wants to tell me everything. And so that is
her safe environment, Like that's and the key is that
it's what works for her, not what works for me.
And so a big part of safety is like the
when and the where of the connection. I imagine in a
therapy office, people are there for that purpose. So you've
got that going for you. But another really important part
(16:17):
of it is like opening up, explaining why am I
asking the question? Sometimes people you know are suspicious of
our agenda, like why is this person asked my other question?
Why are they being so Noathy why are they praying?
Et cetera, and so opening up either about here's why
I'm asking the question, or let me tell you like
my own experience of something like that can then invite
(16:38):
the reciprocity of somebody else sharing. Those are a couple
of ways to make it, to make it more safe.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
We're like ten minutes into this and I've already gone
so so much. I yeah, I feel like I when
I hear Jill say this, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
I love that You're so inquisitive. It's like hard for
me to hear that other people aren't obsessed with that too.
But then I realized, like I've been working with Jill
(17:04):
for six years and so she's I know she's safe,
but so how does somebody kind of get over that
hump like before creating safety, Like what should we be
even be thinking about? Like who do we approach, how
do like what you were saying earlier, how do we
like choose that to be curious, how do we make
that choice? And what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I really think it is. It starts
with the assumption that everybody has something to teach us.
There's something really important. I mean, just to start to
connect it a little bit to the world of money.
I was thinking about this this morning. A couple of years.
By the way, I love I love the name of
your podcast, because I'm a very frugal person. And I
(17:48):
had a car I don't know, for like fifteen sixteen
years and it was like on its last legs. And
I was at a mechanic and the air conditioning had
totally busted. And he was telling me, He's like, I
think this is going to cost you like three or
four thousand dollars to fix. And I'm like, I don't
think the car is worth three or four thousand dollars.
What are we going to do here out of a summer?
And it was like, you know, very humand and I couldn't.
(18:10):
I couldn't just have no air conditioning. And so at
that point I thought to myself, like, get curious, here,
is there anything more? And so I just said to him, like,
is there any other way besides this three or four
thousand dollars fix that you can think of giving your
expertise that we could solve this problem. And I think
some people might think, well, that's you know that are
you By questioning his judgment and he just tell me
(18:31):
the answer or that kind of thing. But I just
thought maybe there's something else and he would know a
lot better than I would. And he said, you know,
I've been thinking about that question, and I actually do think.
He's like, if I just fuse this one piece instead
of trying to fix the leak over here, I could
probably do it for like seventy five dollars. And I
was like, well, that's fine with me, because if one
air conditioning event out of the six is off, we're
still going to be good enough. And so that's what
(18:52):
we did. And but it was really about just kind
of starting with that curiosity, recognizing he knows a lot
more than I know, and also not that I'm not
you know. And I think part of the safety is
I wasn't trying to say like I'm doubting you, you're
trying to rip me off, I'm questioning your judgment, but like,
let's just think together here. Is there some other way
that we could that we could get this done? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Absolutely, And we say it's so so much that frugality
is essentially giving your spouse your self space to get creative,
to get but first you have to be curious in
order to explore all the ways that you could be creative,
so exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think this is also like as an introvert, I
get nervous about like, well maybe that person, Like I
don't want to ever be a burden to somebody. And
I know, like when you were saying, like people want
to share, they want to be asked, like that was
speaking to me, But like, how does someone maybe who
doesn't want to like impose on somebody that maybe they
(19:53):
think maybe a little too highly of. I know, like
we're all this, you know, we're all people, but like
there are some people that I'm just like I'm so
nervous to ask or to talk to or like, is
there a way like we can get over that hump
and like really get some like really good mentorship and
relationships started.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I have two thoughts. One is we could do an experiment.
So I think a lot of us hold ourselves back
because we assume we're right that they're not going to
have time for us, so they're not going to talk
to us, et cetera. And the only way we can
know is to test. And I think part of that
is getting curious ourselves and saying like, what if my
assumption is not right? What would happen? And what's the
(20:35):
worst thing that could happen if I tested that? And
so one way would be to just you know, dip
a toe in the water and see what happens. And
the worst thing that happens is they don't answer our
question or they don't have time. But the other thing
we can do that is even I think lower stakes
than that, is we can ask, if we can ask,
would you mind if I asked you a question? Would
you have a few minutes for me to pick your
brain on this kind of thing? And then we're not
(20:57):
even going there to ask the question yet, but it's
essentially we're using the skills of ask just to test
out would they be willing to even talk to us?
And I think, you know, sometimes people will say no,
and we can respect that, but a lot of times
people say, of course, let me know, And so it
can feel even safer for ourselves just to inquire would
you be open to talking about this?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, when it comes to identifying somebody who we want
to be able to ask, especially financial questions. So this
is you've mentioned some of the touchy subjects and finding
the when and the where and the how. So if
we are beginning to identify, Yeah, I think I'm starting
to build up some bravery to be able to engage
(21:40):
in this type of process with somebody. I want to
know they seem like they might have some wisdom for me,
and maybe there's something I can offer to them. What
could we be asking, do you think what are some
of the best questions we can be diving in with
and or how can we make sure that the plate
(22:00):
that the space is safe to be able to do that?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, In terms of making sure that the space is safe,
I think a lot of it comes back to letting
them know how much we value them, letting them know what,
you know, what we're hoping to get out and why,
letting them know what their advice would mean to us,
but also letting them know that even and I call
(22:24):
this radiating resilience, even if they say something hard to us,
we can handle it that and and if something comes
up for us, we're not going to hold them responsible
for our own reactions, including things that they might want
to push us on as well. And we can even say,
like I really would welcome your you know your your
your most critical pushes your toughest feedback. You're you know,
you're even if even if you think it might be
(22:46):
hard for me to hear, I'm really interested in hearing
that those kinds of things can let people know, Okay,
I can I can take some risks with this person.
They're asking me for it, they're interested in going there
that kind of thing. In terms of the actual questions,
the uh, there's a bunch, but I'll give you a
few different examples. One is a sequence of questions that
(23:08):
is really about digging deeper. So it can start by
saying to them, you know, what is your take on this?
It would this be a good direction for me to go,
Should I spend money on this? Should I make this investment?
Et cetera. But digging deeper is really about saying what
leads you to think that? Tell me why how did
you reach that conclusion? And so really not just stopping
at their advice, but getting underneath, well, you know, what's
(23:31):
the concern that you that you're trying to solve for
with that, with that perspective, et cetera. And then to
even go one step further is something that I call
see what they see, telling them like here are here
are I'm sure you have some stories. I'm sure you
have some experiences, like what data, what information? What experience is?
(23:52):
What stories leads you to have that? And then all
of a sudden, you're not just getting their opinion or
even their reasoning, you're getting their wealth of life experience.
That act actually informs that as well. So that'd be
one kind of set of categories. A second one that
I would talk about is requesting reactions. And this is
something I think that we all do too infrequently. We
(24:16):
often will put our view out there and say, you know,
I'm contemplating this, or I think this is the right
way to go, or I don't think we should spend
money on this, or whatever it is, and then we
just assume if they have a reaction, they're going to
tell us what their reaction is. But so often people
don't tell us their reactions, maybe because they don't think
we care or interest in those reactions. Maybe it's because
it feels hard for them to say maybe they're still
processing them, whatever it may be. But by requesting reactions,
(24:39):
we can invite that, so it can it can literally
be as simple as to say, he like, here's what
I think, what's your reaction to that. How does that
land with you? What does that make you think? What
might I be missing? What might be overlooking what's the
downside I'm not thinking about. Those are the kinds of
things that can invite reactions that we otherwise wouldn't hear.
That also really pulls out people's you know, people's ideas,
(25:00):
insights and wisdom. And then I'll just share one last one,
which is just simply it's the same story that goes
back to the story I mentioned with the car mechanic,
which is called invite ideas, and that's literally saying like, well,
here's my dilemma, what ideas do you have for how
we can handle that? And I don't know if I
hadn't asked that mechanic for ideas, if I would have
(25:20):
gotten that idea. And so a lot of times people
have ideas, but they're not necessarily sure we want to
hear them, or they may not have even kind of
put all the pieces together in their own mind. But
when you invite ideas, all of a sudden, you're bringing
out all kinds of creativity that you wouldn't have necessarily
otherwise gotten to.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I mean you have to genuinely then be interested
in what people have to say. And I think that
that can be some of the problems for some people
is they don't want to take the time, they may
not actually be interested in what another person has to say.
But man, what an amazing approach to have and what
(25:57):
a much better life could be living if we were
to engage in this type of thing. Side question for you,
Jeff are, what would you say are some of the
top benefits you've seen in your life through some of
these questions you're describing and the way that you are
approaching people.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, I think there's three main benefits that I see
and that I've also seen lots of other people get
when they use this approach. The first is just like
hardcore results, like smarter decisions, more innovative solutions, saving time,
avoiding wasting, wasting time, being you know, finding out faster
(26:37):
if my ideas or plans are not going to work,
you know, getting better ideas. All of that I would
put in the bucket of like just better results. The
second I would say is relationships people. As we talked
about before, people want to be asked, and when I
ask questions to people, I learned things about them, and
that makes us closer. And so like my personal relationships,
(26:58):
my work relationship i'm co CEO of an organization, like
my partnerships with you, with my co founder, are just
deeper because of this. And then the third is learning.
Like I learn faster, I grow faster, I correct my
mistakes faster, I you know, solve for mistaken assumptions that
I have made, et cetera. So like results, relationship and learning,
(27:20):
I think are the most important benefits that something like
the ask approach can can help us get.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I can co sign that one, because especially in finances,
particularly in investing, this has always been an area that
I'm just inept at. I'm not that interested in it,
and I feel dumb when I talk about it. So
I don't want to dig in deeper. But I think
(27:46):
through safety of relationship with Jen being able to just
ask okay, now that there's established safety, I've been able
to say I'm okay failing in front of you or
potentially asking a dumb question of you, and I do
care enough about my future at this point, and it
has radically changed the trajectory of what retirement is going
(28:08):
to look like for me. Just one example of what
you're describing results being in the midst of relationship and learning. Yeah,
I guess all three of them have happened in just
that one piece.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, And it wasn't like all at once. It started
like almost as a commiseration, like we're we're just we're
thinking about what retirement accounts and investing and index funds
all look like together. And then as you know, our
relationship grows and like things come back up, then we're
(28:40):
talking more about it and then asking each other different
questions and so like I think when I think about
this sometimes I assume it's like all in one fell swoop,
like you're asking, like what is your you know, background
with investing, what would you do you hear? But a
lot of that, I mean, and it comes back to
the safety, which I had no idea that's the direction
(29:01):
this episode would go. But like it's such a good
like and right place, Like it comes back to the
safety and being like it's not all like I'm asking
for I'm asking from you, but this is a like
mutually beneficial like interaction and not just like and we
(29:23):
go beyond small talk to do things that will really
benefit both of us.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
It's not an an interrogation apart.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
It's it's not extractive just about me, it's really about us.
It's a very we we approach to connecting with people.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes, okay, so we've we've really dove in on the
ask approach with other people, which I think is it's
what your book is mainly about, and I think everyone
should read it not just for finances, because it goes
into like so many great things, but so like, how
do you think we could use the ask approach on
ourselves to learn more about ourselves? Because we're right, a
(30:00):
book on spending, and so a lot of this stuff
we are looking into is like, how can we get
more curious about ourselves? How can we ask ourselves better
questions so that we know what we value spending money
on and what we don't like. Do you see have
you used the ask approach on yourself with any great benefits?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Well? And I think that the ask approach entails inquiring
into ourselves as part of really learning from other people
as well. So I think your point and your question
is super relevant and it really connects a lot to
the first step of choosing curiosity, because part of choosing
curiosity is also being curious about the stories that we
(30:41):
have ourselves, and we are constantly telling ourselves stories about
other people, about the world, about money, about ourselves, about
what's going on in this situation, et cetera. And so
a lot of what I talk about actually in the
chapter of Choosing curiosity is becoming aware of our own
stories and asking ourselves where did those stories come from?
(31:04):
And what information am I selecting in this particular situation.
Because usually whenever we walk into a situation, we are
you know, there's we're surrounded by tons and tons of
data points and information, and we just zero in on
a tiny slice of that and forget everything else, and
we even forget that we forgot the rest of that stuff,
and so we just think that tiny slice is the reality,
and then we just jump right to conclusions about here's
(31:26):
how it goes. And those conclusions usually just reinforce the
assumptions that we brought in in the first place. So
if like, and I will say like as a you know,
to connect it to my own life experience as it
relates to money. You know, I've grown up an internalized
kind of I said, a frugal mindset, but maybe also
like a like what if what if something goes wrong?
Mindset and and that can get me to a scarcity mindset,
(31:49):
et cetera. And so, anytime I'm thinking about a financial situation,
whether in work or in life, like my first go
to is like, what's the risk that's happening in this situation?
And if I play out this risk, like what's the
bad scenario? And you know, I think that has served
me well in some ways because I've been able to
avoid bad things happening. But it can come at the
expense of a more abundance way of looking at life
(32:09):
and scenarios and all that kind of stuff. And so
I have had to walk myself back and say, where
does that come from? And what is that about? And
what would be other things that I could look at
in a situation when I'm confronting a money decision, not
just the risk, but also what's the possible upside that's
going on here? And also what are the like the
sub choice points that can help me move between the
risk and the upside, et cetera. And So by asking
(32:32):
ourselves those kinds of questions, I think we get a
lot of insight into where our stories come from. But
also we do what I call injecting question marks into
our stories, and when we can inject question marks into
our stories, those question marks can push away the anxiety
that we might be feeling otherwise, so they can make
us calmer. But they can also that make us so
(32:52):
much more receptive to learning with and from other people too.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Oh, I don't know if I've ever said what I'm
about to say. I would encourage everybody to rewind and
write down those questions that you just rattled off about
what we can be asking for ourselves. One of the
things that I love about curiosity, A true curiosity and
its best form is it doesn't assume an answer. So
(33:19):
a lot of times when we do look inward, it
might be in a more shaming or an assumptive way.
A lot of times we'll ask ourselves why we'll get
on the defense with ourselves. But every single question that
you asked was true curiosity. Hmm, what is that about.
I'm not going to assume what the ending is. I'm
going to truly ask myself and be willing to look
(33:43):
and find something that maybe I wouldn't have thought the
answer to be. And what a world opens in front
of us as a result of that. So I'm just
highlighting and emphasizing because thank you, you gave really excellent questions,
so feel free listener, rewind and write it down. And
(34:03):
speaking of good questions, I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
We got we got yeah, we got one for your
favorite question.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
It's the bill of the week. That's right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Maybe you've paid off your.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Mortgage, maybe your car died and you're happy to not
have to pay that bill anymore. Buck bills, Buffalo bills,
Bill Clinton, this is the bill of the week, Jeff.
Every week we yell at our guests to share with
us what we think is the most quality question we
ask on this show. What is your bill of the week.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
Have you ever heard of Bill Nay, the science guy?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yes, Okay, so he is. He is my favorite Bill,
and I think he's the embodiment of curiosity. He's the
embodiment of experimentation and trying things out. And he has
a famous quote which says, everybody you meet knows something
you don't. Hmmm. And to me, that is the essence
(35:22):
of the ask approach. It's basically to say there is
wisdom and every single person we can learn from every
single person, and so Bill Nye is my hero in
that way.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
I love that because sometimes we can think like everybody
knows something that we don't, and we can almost use
that as like a defense mechanism to kind of be bitter.
But if you just reframe it with this ask approach,
it can be something so life giving, like everyone knows
something I don't. There is so much possibility for me
(35:52):
to grow and I know something that they don't, and
a rising tide will lift all our boats exactly.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's then't have to be a bad thing that they
know something that we don't. In fact, what a gift,
what an opportunity, what an asset? And it's normal because
it's just how the world is.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I'm remembering that Bill ny would also do like ask
these questions in his science experiments where he might have
obviously known what was going to happen, but he acted
like he didn't at different times. And it's striking me
now as something endearing and an approach that we can
all kind of take. Like if you're saying everyone knows
(36:29):
something we don't, then that would apply to kids too,
and people you would think, oh, they don't know as
much as me. Maybe not, but they definitely know something
you don't.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Which absolutely yes. There's a chapter in the book actually
on how to raise and educate curious question askers as kids,
and one of the most important things is to model
that curiosity for our kids, which means saying in front
of our own kids, Wow, what a great question. I
have no idea. How could we find out the answer
to that question? And the more that we model that,
(37:02):
the more that we let them know it's not only okay,
but it's a good thing to be curious, because kids
do what they see their parents doing.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, and it's okay that not everyone has the answer
immediately that you'll always you know, for most of the
time have to get creative to find the answer.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I say that to my four year old all the time, like,
that's a great question, I have no idea, And I
think now he's just starting to think, like maybe I
should ask my other parent. He's starting to problem solve creatively.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
But stick with that. I think it will still benefit
in his curiosity. He'll turn into a question, you know,
he'll stay curious. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Unfortunately, sometimes it stops there for me, like I don't know, well,
not voting well for us. If you all listening have
a bill that you want to submit, it is about
Bill and I the science guy or you are Bill
Ny the science guy. You know to do because a
Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash Bill. Leave us your bill.
(38:04):
We're ready for it. And now it's time for the
lightning around.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
All right? So oh I love this one.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
All right.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
So today's lightning round, our vulnerability round. What is the
most interesting question you've ever been asked? It can be
the weirdest, hardest, best, whatever, it's it's your choice. Jeff
will let you go first.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I need a minute. I didn't come prepared for this question.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Okay, we we did.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Okay, I'll go first. So this is I brought my
phone to prepare for this. Oh here, it's back here.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
So in my career, I have gotten so many emails
like reader and listener emails and they are lovely, and
so I got this one and the actual question and
it'll make sense in context. But the actual question is
(39:07):
would you be against holding a chat or call discussing
your business in detail and the game plan? Okay? But
the context is I got this email titled the Devil
and angel, and it is a picture of a guy
who has super imposed his face on an angel and
a devil on each shoulder and just says, the devil
(39:31):
told me don't email him, it might skyrock at his sales.
But the angel on my right shoulder said, be a
man of God and spread the game plan.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
And there's a lot of other but essentially that question
I didn't. I mean, I know, it's like they did
some photoshop, you know, like it's a good I don't
know if you can see it, Jeff, but like.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
That is impressive. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So that's my favorite question because of the context.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I love how we call it vulnerability round and then
we just say silly things. You can take it deep
unrrible launch.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, well, I was thinking, I so I mentioned my daughter.
I also have a son who's seventeen, and particularly with
the age that he's in, he is questioning me a
lot about everything, And probably one of the best questions
I've got recently is like, why would you ever think
that's a good idea from my son? Which you know,
I probably wouldn't put in the category of quality questions
(40:31):
in my book, but I actually think he meant it
literally and I remember when I was seventeen, I thought
I knew a lot more than my parents and all
that kind of thing. But when I actually sat with
his question, I thought, you know, let me think about that,
because he you know, he makes some good points, and
I'm going to take it seriously. So why would you
(40:51):
ever think that's a good idea? It's probably my most
recent vulnerable question.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Did you come back with a slide show like a
slide deck, being like, this is why I would ever
think that.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
This is a good idea. I'm still working on it.
I'm still building it, making air tight case.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yes, he is asking for more of a reasoning behind it,
just in the kindest There.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Is the safety that he could ask.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Yeah, he's not in helping the safe space, but he's
getting there.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
That's reminding me of one. So that's going to make
me share too. But speaking of kids questions, there was
this little girl. She was probably seven at the time
that she asked me this question, and she must not
have met many people like me, but she asked, am
I a teenager or am I a mother? Like those
(41:42):
are the only two options for her. I'm either a teenager?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Are you a teenage?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
More?
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Mother? And I'm like, I'm neither. I'm I'm an adult
woman without children. It was not computing for her. She
was from a big family. She probably has only ever
seen moms. Adult women are moms. Or you can have
an older looking girl who's just a teenager. She just no, no, no,
(42:07):
but are you a teenager? Or are you a mom?
The poor girl I blew her mind that day. Anyways,
the one that I did want to say that relates
to the podcast. So speaking of the bill of the
week that we just put you through, there was one
time early on that we got a caller who just said,
who is?
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Well, it was a text. We weren't using speak pipe.
We were using like the Google voice number so that
you could text that number, right.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I remember it being yeah, we read it, but I
thought maybe it was transcribed. But that was it. They
texted the bill of the week line, just who is.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
And we know what.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
We used it the early days and we didn't have
a lot of you know, bills of the week, and
so it definitely we used it.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And it's us. Yeah, our answer is it?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Jill?
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Who disit us?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yes? You could take that question to a very deep level.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Yes, who are we? Very true, Jeff. Well, if people
want to take this conversation to a deeper level, where
can they get more from you?
Speaker 1 (43:14):
She's a queen it seguez.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
I love that segue. So the website is www dot
ask Approach dot com and the book is called Ask
Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People around You, which
you can get anywhere you can get books, and they
can also follow us on Instagram at ask Approach.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Beautiful. Thank you Jeff for sharing your wisdom today.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Oh, thank you for your great questions. It was really
fun to talk with you, all right, that was so good.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Yeah, ooh, that was really good. I think the conversation
on safety is going to be really valuable because it
can feel so one sided to be seeking information from people,
(44:05):
but there are ways to make it a safe space
to where people want to share and actually benefit from sharing.
There are so many and I want to like direct
this specifically to women because I know that's the majority
of our audience and I've just kind of been thinking
on this, but like, there are so many women with
(44:25):
gifts that don't know that what they have is special
and or maybe have heard it but don't yet believe it.
And the more we tell people. What you have is
a gift? Can you share it with me? The more
we help people succeed and realize their full potential. And
(44:47):
I think as women we cannot gatekeep the gifts that
we have because in business settings, c suite men have
been networking and leveraging networks and seeking to identify like
the places in the room where they can learn, and
(45:08):
that's just felt so foreign to us.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, well sometimes I'm just tired.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
But I mean I can also feel inauthentic too. We
want to create real relationships. We're not looking to leverage
business connections, right, but that comes at the detriment of
we're also nervous to you know, extract or squeeze information
out of people, But there are safe ways to do
(45:37):
it that build both people in the relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Up agreed, Yeah, that safety one was key for me.
Making it's not just about asking questions. It's also making
sure that the setting is right and that people understand
why you're asking it, what's the motive behind it? Can
you give more contexts and make it more of an exchange,
more reciprocity.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
And I think one of the great I mean, the
one of the key takeaways I took is like starting
with vulnerability is like putting out just I mean not
getting like you know, spilly and spilling your guts out,
but like start with a little piece of vulnerability and
that does really put out like safe space vibes.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yeah, So thank you so much for listening. I hope
that you got something out of this and that you
are going to take this and you're going to build
better relationships, relationships that are mutually beneficial and help you
get just get more out of life. And thank you
for sending sweet emails about the friend letter. We want
to share this one specifically, and this is for Misty.
(46:44):
I don't know if you guys know, but we no
longer write the emails. Misty and Kim, our frugal friends
are writing them now. And we got this one from
Erica that says, this email from Misty resonated with me
because I did not redeem my Sephora or to birthday
gifts last year. This was an email about birthday freebies.
(47:04):
I'm sure I missed some more other than those. I
do think we need to plan out how to maximize
our birthday rewards. I wonder if someone's made a checklist
of birthday rewards for National Change Chains. Thanks for making
Monday a little brighter. Happy Monday, Erica. I did email you,
but I wanted to share this for everyone else. The
Crazy cubeon Lady has a list of over one hundred
(47:27):
and so I actually you'll be seeing this very soon
because my birthday is in two days from this release.
I have made a list and signed up for a
bunch like twelve of the freebies on that list from
Crazy cubon Lady, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Gonna do I'm going to do this.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
I'm going to chronicle myself on my birthday. That's getting
my birthday freebies. So stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yay, getting my birthday freebies. Thanks Erica for your email,
and thanks everybody for tuning in listening again if you
want those freebees, savings tips, values based spending hacks sent
to your email. If you want to get stuff from
Misty and Kim and us girlfriendspodcast dot com, see yah.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Frugal Friends is produced by Eric sirianni.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Okay. I had a very scary question this morning, checking
of questions. All right, you were here for it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I was I experienced this? You catastrophizing at your finest.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yes, Oh my gosh, yes, yes, I am prone to that.
I will amplify situation if it can be amplified. And
the question came from my husband Eric, who walked into
the kitchen and said, is this a flea? Actually, he said.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Are these flea?
Speaker 2 (49:04):
Because there weren't two of them. He puts them on
our white counter. They're hopping around. Jen from ten feet
away is able to say, yep, absolutely, yep. I'm not
even close to them, and I can see them hopping around.
They fleees. They jump like a flea, they look like
a flea. They're fleas. And so here we are over here,
(49:24):
me and my husband Eric, because if you remember from
the episode, I do not have children. I'm not a
teenager or a mother. I don't have children, and I
do not have pets, and yet I have fleas in
my house.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Well, you traveled with somebody who had fleas. Well, their
dog had fleas and the fleas.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
The dog was not with us.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
The dog was not with us, but the owners of
the dog were with us. And m h, I think
that now we have a dog. I don't know, like
I feel like we get the worst of like the
things of people, like people love having dogs and children
and they get all the perks and we get all
(50:08):
the like peripheral cons like oh yeah, we don't have
a dog, but we have fleas. We don't have kids,
but we get their sicknesses. Like I don't know what
to do. Yeah here, well I mean I need to
be a teenager instead.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, or yeah, it's but your house is pretty sterile,
like you clean a lot, you have very little fabric furniture.
You there will not be a lot of places for
them to live.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I hope. So yeah, smoke them out, baby, Yeah, I think.
But I did not love that. I actually hated it.
Hated that question, the answer to that question.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
It was an intense like it was an intense morning.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
I don't got time for that.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
We just hire.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
We have a book due in two and a half weeks,
and we do not have time for fleas. I don't
have time for Jill to have fleas.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
And don't sit too close to me.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Later, she's like, maybe you should leave, and I was like,
I can't leave, like I have to be here. You
didn't have to go on vacation, but I have to
be here, so don't give me please. I also don't
have a dog, and my children do not have fleas.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
So.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Don't don't. I ain't got time. No one has time.
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