October 4, 2024 • 53 mins
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcast about leather and kink where your host, Edge (he/him), shares his 30+ years of experience in the community. This episode, it's aging. My host's AI has this to say:
Can our kink identities evolve gracefully as we age? This episode takes you through the dynamic and often unexpected journey of aging within the kink community. From the energetic experimentation of our 20s to the significant life changes and career shifts in our 30s, we share personal stories of growth and transformation. The 40s bring their own unique challenges, such as health issues and profound personal losses, but also offer a period of consolidating our kink identities and reflecting on our experiences.
We challenge the notion that chronological age dictates kink roles. Whether you're a young dominant or an older submissive, we explore how individuals can start or adapt their kink journeys at any age. Practical advice on navigating physical changes and maintaining meaningful kink play is provided, along with tips for effective communication about health and biomechanical concerns. This discussion also touches on the common anxieties in gay male kink culture, particularly regarding virility and physical limitations, offering insights to help you adapt and thrive.
The episode underscores the versatility of kink in providing pleasure from any part of the body, making it accessible for everyone. We delve into the concept of the "daddy turn" in gay male communities, where one's identity might shift from boy to daddy as they age. Exploring the balance of tradition and innovation, we discuss the importance of staying open to new technologies and evolving cultural landscapes. We end on a poignant note, emphasizing the value in embracing the aging process and finding new connections and pleasures, and invite you to join our "Ask Edge" segment to foster a sense of community and shared history.
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Let's talk about aging, that you are an adult.
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcastabout leather kink and BDSM.
(00:41):
My name is Edge, my pronounsare he, him, and I'm your host.
In this episode we'll betalking about aging in kink,
which can be a fairlycomplicated issue, since aging
comes with certain advantagesand certain disadvantages.
So I'll share my own journeygrowing up in the kink community
(01:03):
and then give something like ahow-to segment that provides
some cautionary tales to watchas you grow older.
And then we have one.
Ask Edge question for this time.
So I think it's a pretty goodepisode.
Let's get started.
Get started we're always aging.
(01:32):
You're aging right now.
However, what I have learnedthrough hard experience is that
you become aware of the factthat you're aging at certain
moments, and those moments in myexperience have been very
complicated.
But let me start at somethinglike the beginning.
My 20s were fantastic in manyways.
(01:52):
Actually, every decade I'veexperienced has been fantastic,
but what the 20s gave me wassort of boundless energy,
including boundless sexualenergy, and that offered me a
bit of an advantage as I wasexploring kink, as I was
relentless at findingexperiences, and so I was able
(02:12):
to accumulate quite a bit ofkink experience from an early
age, which correlated toaccumulating quite a bit of
wisdom, which is also to say,not every one of those kink
experiences was positive, butthey were each a learning kind
of moment.
I was so horny in my 20s Iwould masturbate five times a
(02:36):
day.
I was always online evaluatingpotential partners and looking
for a hookup, and wouldsometimes drive hours for a
unique and complicated scene,and I think for me, the
ebullience of youth is a uniqueadvantage that comes with
(02:57):
starting kink early.
So if you're in your 20s too.
On the one hand, you may nothave much experience 20s too.
On the one hand, you may nothave much experience, people may
not take you too seriously, butyou have a seemingly endless
supply of energy that will allowyou to pursue your kink
(03:18):
adventures.
I remember I could be out tilltwo or three.
Actually, I remember I would goto the Lure, which is the bar
in New York, and I took thetrain in from New Jersey.
And you know New Jersey transitstopped operating at I think
140 or something was the lasttrain and the bar closed at two.
So I would always have to makethis decision like am I going to
leave for Penn Station or am Igoing to stay?
(03:40):
And I would often stay and thenbe at Penn Station at like
three in the morning waiting fora 4 am train or something
horrible.
The point is that in my youth Iwas able to stay out all night
and that really allowed me tomaximize my search for
experiences I wanted and needed.
I promise you that is notsomething I can do now.
(04:03):
So I think the special thingabout the 20s is that energy and
that hunger you may experiencefor kink which will drive you
towards the goals you set foryourself.
My 30s, instead, were about kindof growing up, and that
(04:24):
included were about kind ofgrowing up, and that would
include, you know, actually Iwould say it included
transitions.
So in my thirties I moved hereto Florida.
In my thirties I started mymain career.
In my thirties I transitionedfrom bottom slash boy to top
slash sir and that involved alot of growth and development.
(04:46):
So I think the 30s for me werethis sort of growth stage.
They were a decade oftransition and transformation
and I was becoming to understandwho I was and who I could be,
and that was the unique benefitof my 30s.
I don't recall losing that muchenergy.
(05:09):
I think I could still kind ofgo pretty hard.
So the 30s were pretty goodthat way.
And if you're in your 30s, Ireally want to invite you to
consider the transformationsyou're undergoing at this stage
in your life and to value them,because the 30s really set me up
for some amazing decades tocome.
(05:31):
40s were very good to me, butthey were also the decade when I
first started noticing that Iwas aging and I mean a lot of
things happened in my 40s.
This is where I experienced myfirst profound losses.
My mother passed away, myhusband passed away and
(05:53):
especially the loss of myhusband was so very difficult.
And I got to know grief alittle too well for my tastes,
but I got to know grief and inmany ways it was a decade of
ascendancy.
I was growing up and growingmore in my career, in my
(06:14):
finances, in my leathercollection, in my kink
experience, but I was alsonoticing shifts in my body.
None of these were thattroubling.
You know I got diagnosed with,I think.
I might have had high bloodpressure in my 30s.
It's been a while.
I think, I probably hadgastroesophageal reflux disease
(06:36):
in my 40s.
Like in 40s, your body startssaying hey, you know, I've been
running for a long time andthings are going to need a
little bit of support.
That's sort of what my 40s werefor me.
Another really big shift in my40s is I experienced what I
think was a massive shift in mysex drive, and I don't know what
(06:57):
exactly I can attribute this to.
On the one hand, it could justbe changes in my body and my
hormones.
This to, on the one hand, itcould just be changes in my body
and my hormones, but I think itwas also the fact that I had
been exploring kink for so longthat I had really accumulated a
set of very satisfyingexperiences.
So I was less driven toexperience everything because I
had, at that point, mostlyexperienced everything I wanted
(07:22):
and some things I didn't.
So the 40s was maybe a decadeof consolidation, where I was
dealing with the harsh realitiesof life in terms of aging and
things like death, but alsoconsolidating my sense of myself
as a leather person, myinterest in kink, in fact, as
(07:43):
part of that, I remember Irealized in my 40s that I
thought I was into things, butthey were just things I used to
be into.
I hadn't really stopped toreflect on what I was still into
and I did some of that innerwork.
You know, fetishes change.
Some fade, some rise, somedevelop out of nowhere, and a
(08:06):
lot of that happened for me inmy 40s.
So I discovered maybe a coupleof new kinks, but I also really
shifted where my kink energy wasgoing.
I mean, the biggest example isbondage my 20s I was all about
bondage.
That was my start.
If you've listened to thepodcast you may already know
that.
And then the 30s were really alot about cigars and in my 40s I
(08:32):
still enjoyed cigars but I didvery few cigar sex scenes.
I still enjoyed bondage, but itwasn't as central to my kink
sexuality as it used to be.
I began to develop more of aninterest in impact, play and
pain as a pathway to intimacy.
I began being more interestedon what was inside a person
(08:55):
instead of the outside, less howthey looked and more some sense
of how we connected.
That really began in my 40s.
I am in my early, almost mymid-50s.
I'm currently 53.
In about a month, on Halloween,if you're curious yes, actually
Halloween, actually October31st I will turn 54.
(09:18):
My 50s in many ways have beensimply amazing.
I have reached this sort ofpinnacle of so many things.
I've achieved so many goals inmy life I've achieved career
goals and financial goals andanything I could have ever
imagined doing or having inleather I have done or now have,
(09:41):
and that is a blessing, whichis not simply related to aging,
obviously, but related to allsorts of intersectional
privileges that I carry with methat position me to succeed
economically, socially,culturally, things like that.
So I don't want to minimize myprivilege, but I do feel like
the 50s are a decade of enjoyingmy success, and I hope that if
(10:09):
you're in your 50s, it's adecade for you to enjoy your
success as well.
At the same time, I am nowacutely aware of aging.
In the past couple of years I'vehad peers who have had heart
attacks, who have had strokes,who have dealt with cancer, and
(10:30):
that's relatively new.
That didn't really happen untilmy 50s.
And so if my 40s was aboutlearning about the death of
others including I lost both myparents and my husband my 50s
are bringing me face to facewith the possibility of my own
demise, and that is verysobering, in case you're
(10:52):
wondering.
So all my peers are facingthese health issues and I can't
help but wonder oh, when is mynumber up, when is my turn?
And that doesn't cause anxiety.
I don't live in that kind offear, but it really.
Instead, I invert it towards agratitude for this day, that I
(11:15):
am here today, I have my healthtoday, I have a really rich and
fulfilling life today, andgratitude could also then be a
theme of my 50s that I'm reallygrateful for everything I've
experienced, everything I have,everything I've accomplished.
The flip side of thataccomplishment is also a sense
of well, what's next?
It's a kind of midlife-y Ithink my therapist has called it
(11:38):
an existential crisis sort ofoh okay, well, I've reached all
my goals, what?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
am.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I going to do next, and that means I've contemplated
some career changes.
I have really refocused, I'vepulled back from leather events,
I've pulled back from play.
I'm really being thoughtfulabout relationships.
I am learning new things aboutmy sexuality, that I'm very gray
, sexual with a littledemisexual, that all of these
things are helping me figure outwhat's next for me, because
(12:07):
there's still a drive to keepachieving.
But if you've achievedeverything, then what do you do?
Well, you figure out new thingsto achieve.
I am hopeful that I will liveinto my 60s and hopeful that I
will learn the lessons that thatdecade offers me, that I will
(12:29):
learn the lessons that thatdecade offers me.
But for all of you, I would sayyou don't have to think about
aging.
In fact, I encourage you not tothink about aging, because
there will come a point when youcan't help but think about
aging, when your body changes,when your friends change, when
your life circumstances changein ways that are connected to
the fact that you are growingolder, and there's no reason to
(12:51):
rush that moment.
I promise you, there is noreason to rush it.
There's also no reason toregret aging.
There's no reason to fear aging.
There's no reason to regret theloss of youth.
I will say obviously, if I hadmy fantasy, I would be able to
take every single thing I havenow, all the material goodies
(13:14):
and toys and prizes I have andall of the wisdom and experience
I have, and I would like tojust sort of be rewound
biologically, say 20 years.
That would be really nice, butit doesn't work that way.
And now then here's the effingironic thing when I was younger,
everyone around me who wasolder would be like wow, I wish
(13:34):
I had all this experience andwas younger.
And I'm like blah, blah, blah.
And now here I am.
One of the worst things aboutaging is you find yourself
saying things that older peopleused to say when you were
younger and that you woulddismiss.
And then you're like God damnit, they were right.
And then God damn it.
Now I'm that older person.
(13:57):
So, wherever you are in yourjourney of aging, I want to
encourage you to not be toomindful of aging, since aging
will mind you at a certain point.
But I also want to encourageyou to embrace what your age
offers, and I think this isespecially important, maybe the
(14:18):
younger you are.
I think when I was in my 20s, Ihad such a part of the drive to
get experience, to get gear, togo to events was this horrible
sense of what I didn't have,that I didn't have that pair of
chaps, or I didn't have a reallygood leather jacket, or I
didn't have lager boots or Ididn't have which drove my
(14:39):
search for those things and mydesire to get them that I don't
think I stopped to reflect onwhat I did have.
And what I did have wasboundless, relentless energy and
an ability to pursue all thosethings I didn't have.
(15:00):
So I think, if you're in your20s.
I would just suggest don'tfocus on what you're missing
right now, but focus on whatthat age uniquely provides you
that is not provided as you age.
And if you're in your 30s, Ihope that the transformations
you are undergoing if indeed youare like me and undergo
(15:21):
transformations in your 30s Ihope that they're smooth and
because obviously that amount ofchange can be very challenging
and take quite a while toprocess and integrate.
So I wish you strength and Iwish you navigation as you move
through the transformations ofthe 30s.
If you're in your 40s, enjoy.
(15:43):
They're really kind of abeautiful decade and I hope they
are beautiful for you.
And if you're with me, in your50s, not too bad right, not too
bad.
I feel like I'm at the peak ofmany things, which is fantastic,
but that comes with anunderstanding that on the other
side of the peak is downhill.
On the other side of the peakis downhill.
(16:05):
Hopefully I won't reach thattoo soon and hopefully you won't
either.
So I wish you well, not only onyour leather journey, but on
your journey in aging as well.
In the first segment, I focusedon my own personal experience
of aging, but in this segment,personal experience of aging.
(16:27):
But in this segment I wouldlike to reflect a little bit
more on some broader topics orthings to think about in
relation to aging and kink, andlet me start with two important
caveats.
Number one aging is privilege.
To be able to age means thatyou have access to affordable
(16:47):
health care, that you haveaccess to nutritious food and
don't live in a food desert, youhave safe shelter and clean
water, you don't live in a placewith high environmental
pollution or high environmentalvulnerability, and you live in a
place not ravaged by war orviolence.
All of these things areprivileges and, like all
(17:10):
privilege, it becomes invisible.
But I just want to foregroundthe fact that, as much as we
want to sort of talk about howhorrible it is to age, it is a
blessing to age.
It is not something thateveryone gets, that everyone is
able to achieve, often becauseof their socioeconomic,
(17:31):
political, geographicalcircumstances.
So the fact that you'relistening to this today, that
you've reached whatever age youare, is a gift that reflects
some level of privilege, and Iwould like us all invite us all
at least to be aware of that.
The second big caveat is thatthere is no inherent connection
(17:52):
between chronological age andkink identity.
Let me repeat that there is noinherent connection between
chronological age and kinkidentity.
That means that you could startas a boy at 67 or start as a
dominant at age 19.
Now there's often a correlationbetween age and kink identity.
(18:17):
In gay male kink cultures thereare a lot of young boys and
there are a lot of young boysand there are a lot of older
daddies.
But that correlation is not acausation.
Now that can make thingschallenging if you don't
necessarily match thecorrelation.
So if you are a very youngdaddy, that could be problematic
(18:41):
for you as well as if you're amuch older boy, and we'll talk a
little bit about navigatingthat.
At the same time, it's useful toremember that each age has
certain affordances.
So if you are young anddominant, you have more energy,
you have more sex drive, youhave more ability to pursue
things.
You have more sex drive, youhave more ability to pursue
(19:05):
things.
And if you're an older cub, forexample, that means you bring
to any relationship you enterinto a lifetime of experience
with communication, probablysome emotional stability, some
life wisdom in general.
The other part of this is that,because there's no inherent
connection between chronologicalage and kink identity, over
time our kink identities canevolve bidirectionally, and that
(19:28):
might mean evolving fromsomeone who's dominant to
someone who's submissive laterin life or evolving, and this is
fairly common, from someonewho's submissive to someone
who's dominant, and this isfairly common from someone who's
submissive to someone who'sdominant.
(19:49):
As a final corollary of thiscaveat, please believe people
when they tell you their kinkidentity.
So, even if someone looksreally young, if they call
themselves a mistress, believethey are a mistress.
Even if someone looks mucholder and they call themselves a
boy, believe they are a boy.
Affirm who they are, please.
In terms of the sort ofpracticalities of aging and kink
(20:12):
, probably the most importantthing to be cognizant of is the
physical changes that happen aswe age.
Now, ideally before any scene,if you are the top or the bottom
, there's some discussion ofsort of biomechanics.
Are there joints that are alittle tricky?
(20:32):
Are there health conditionsthat could crop up in the middle
of a scene?
And if you are in charge of thescene, no matter your kink
identity, it's really incumbenton you to be asking those
questions.
But if you are submitting inthe scene, it is as incumbent on
you to make sure the personknows if you have particular
(20:54):
biomechanical issues.
As we age, obviously these growand we may encounter more and
more physical limitations, and Irecall a very, very special
dear friend of mine in New York,david Stein, who was a huge,
important figure in the leathercommunity, who in fact came up
with the term safe, sane,consensual, and he was
(21:23):
submissive, identifiedthroughout his life and faced a
lot of challenges as he grewolder, not simply in finding men
who would see him as thesubmissive that he is, but he
had a lot of problems kneelingthat was physically difficult
for him because of his healthconditions and that would
obviously require sorts ofaccommodations to help him
submit in a way that wassignificant but didn't involve
(21:43):
kneeling.
Even before we reach a largerage, an older age, I don't know,
I don't want to put it, I don'twant to talk about people being
old.
That's what I'm trying to avoidEven before then.
Biomechanical issues can happenat any point in time and it's
important to understand that aswe age, they become more likely.
(22:06):
So that's an even more importantdiscussion to have Now.
The good news is, if there arebiomechanical issues, you can
certainly make adjustments tothe play.
You do so, for example, for alot of men.
I play with a lot of men whohave joint issues, and so I'm
less likely to do bondage withhands behind the back.
I'm more likely to do eitherrestraints with hands at the
(22:29):
side or hands in front.
That also might mean takingmore breaks or having fewer
really physically demandingkinks and doing more mental play
, maybe like sensory deprivation.
So as we age, not only does ourbody change, but the way we
play might change as well.
(22:51):
And that's not loss, that is ashift.
That is not less, it isdifferent.
As the body changes, there areincrease in health
considerations, obviously, andyou'll have to plan with those
scenes in mind, and that canhappen again at any time, for
gay men in particular oneparticular—I used particular
(23:15):
twice, I'm so sorry—one physicalchange that is very common and
that triggers a lot of fear hasto do with virility.
Now, in our culture we tend toconnect the penis to maleness,
even though penis potency is notat all an indicator of one's
(23:35):
amount of maleness.
In fact, the penis is not anindicator of one's amount of
maleness.
But especially in the gay maleculture and not just the king
culture, broadly the gay maleculture there's a sense that
there's a real fear of yourpenis not working as well as you
age, and this has gotten toridiculous levels.
(23:59):
I know people who are prettyyoung I mean, I'm not going to
say how young, pretty young whoare using Trimix because they
have an anxiety around theirpenis potency getting hard and
staying hard.
Now I understand this because Ihave a prescription for boner
pills that includes Cialis andsome other special ingredients
(24:21):
and my penis works fine.
I really don't need those.
But I certainly do miss my 20swhere the slightest breeze could
cause me a rock-hard erectionand I wanted to recover that,
and I will admit that that isnot necessarily the edge I want
to be.
I would like to be a little bitmore comfortable with my aging
(24:43):
and I'm mostly comfortable withit.
But around my penis I'm lettingthose larger cultural pressures
about maleness impact me alittle.
I don't use my boner pillshardly ever.
If you need me to fuck you, I'mgoing to have a boner pill,
because I'm not really wired forfucking.
But I'm happy to do that forpeople.
(25:03):
But the boner pill helps there.
So if it helps, if it helps.
The beautiful thing about kinkis that it is not necessarily
genital focused at all.
Whether you have a penis orwhatever genitals you have.
I like to think of kink as aset of technologies that can
(25:24):
extract pleasure from any pointon the body.
Left ear, oh pleasure.
Back, oh pleasure.
Right.
Big toe, oh, let's get somepleasure from there.
Oh, belly button, we're goingto find some pleasure there.
Ass cheek, yeah, yeah, pleasurethere.
With kink I can point to anypart of the body and use it to
(25:49):
generate pleasure.
Janital potency is not the only,and often is not the primary
source of pleasure in kink, andtherefore kink allows us to
access pleasure all over, andthat means if you're a kinky
person, that you don't have toworry about genital potency or
genital orgasm.
(26:10):
That doesn't mean you don'thave to like it.
Some people are really huge onorgasm.
Right, it helps that I'm alittle gray sexual and orgasm's
like meh, okay, orgasm's great,but I don't need it.
But the broader issue is that aswe age, the beauty is no matter
what our genitals are doing.
We have access to pleasure thatis equal to, and sometimes
(26:32):
greater than, orgasm, becauseorgasm lasts for a couple
seconds.
But I can be generatingpleasure through tit play for
hours, you know hours.
You know, orgasm lasts for acouple seconds.
I can be giving someonepleasure through fisting for
hours and there's a sense inwhich kink as a technology for
(26:53):
pleasure, a technology thatextracts pleasure from any point
on the body, means that it is abeautiful thing to age in,
because our capacity forpleasure does not shrink as we
age.
Our capacity for pleasure doesnot shrink as we age.
(27:13):
So, beyond these physicalchanges and therefore physical
adjustments that come with kinkand aging physical changes, and
therefore physical adjustmentsthat come with kink and aging.
There are probably going to besome shifting roles and dynamics
.
Now, generally, I try to makemy content gender or sexuality
(27:33):
agnostic, because I feel likekink is fairly the same no
matter your gender or sexidentity.
But I will for a moment turnspecifically to gay male
communities and talk about whatI call the daddy turn.
And this is a specifically gaymale experience, and here's what
the daddy turn is.
You're trucking along, enjoyingyour kink, living your best
(27:55):
leather life, and at some point,at some point, younger men will
approach you and call you daddy.
Now this can be either verytroubling or very empowering.
It can be a painful moment ofmisrecognition if you identify
(28:15):
as a boy and people startcalling you daddy because it can
remind you that you're agingout of that correlative dynamic,
that kind of assumption thatboys are young.
And so it's that moment whenyou realize, wow, it's about to
get a lot harder for me to liveas a boy, because now people
want to call me daddy.
But for some other people, ifyou've been daddy identified,
(28:36):
since you were 17, then this canconfirm your lifelong identity.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It can be oh, finally at last people see me as I see
myself.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I think for most of us it can be a really complex
moment and I think my experienceis fairly common and my
experience was I resisted ituntil I didn't.
So what you might find when youhit the daddy turn, there'll be
these young men calling youdaddy and at first you'll be
like no, I'm not a daddy, sorry.
(29:07):
No, I'm not a daddy, sorry.
But sooner or later you may findyourself realizing that they're
really hot, they are just hot,and so you might try on daddy,
and then for some of us it willfit.
And this represents anevolutionary transformation and
it very much was.
My daddy turn happened in thelate 1900s right, I've talked
(29:32):
about this in a couple episodesthis movement from being bottom
slash boy identified to beingtop slash sir identified and it
was driven by people calling mesir and me having to take that
identity on, not moving into theidentity and finding boys to
meet it.
So I experienced a daddy turnand it was evolutionary and I
think it's a pretty commonevolution from top to bottom.
(29:56):
That daddy turn moment thathappens a lot in gay male
communities, that daddy turnmoment that happens a lot in gay
male communities.
But in general, with aging youmight expect to evolve into
different roles and that mightmean moving from dominant to
submission, submission todominant, becoming more
(30:16):
versatile, becoming more fluid,becoming more flexible.
You might change your genderidentity, you might change your
understanding of your sexuality.
This is what happened to methat I didn't really come to
understand and actually I can'tpromise you I've always been gay
, gray sexual and gay sexual.
I can't promise you that I'vealways been gray sexual.
(30:36):
For all I know it was anevolution, but my understanding
of my sexuality has evolved intograysexuality and demisexuality
.
So it's going to be normal toexperience evolution as you age
and you may feel like a pup now.
You may grow into a handler,you may transform into a master
(30:58):
and then transform into a slave.
That the pathways possible arevery diverse.
I'm tempted to say endless,semi-endless, but they are very
diverse.
And this also means evolvingbeyond roles that are very
active.
I would hope, as I, you know,there comes a point where I no
(31:21):
longer want to be on the appsand at the leather bar.
This is me very personally.
There's going to come a pointwhere I just don't want to be at
a certain age doing that, I'mjust not going to be.
That's not what I want.
But that doesn't mean I want tonecessarily retire from the
leather community.
Instead, I see myself evolvingeven further into roles of
(31:45):
mentorship and guidance.
So this notion that as we age,not only do we face physical
changes, but we evolve mentally,emotionally, through different
sexual kink capacities that'sreally quite natural and to be
expected and then, as part ofthis, these new capacities
provide us new adventures, newemotional connections, new kinds
(32:09):
of intimacy that then becomemore significant and can deepen
as we age.
So if you've listened to thepodcast, you know that I really
awakened to what feels to me amore authentic kind of dominance
, really quite recently.
That's part of that emotionalevolution that was also part of
(32:30):
my aging.
Aging is a physical evolutionand my development of my
dominance has been an emotionalevolution.
And those are two things thathave happened to me as I aged,
and not the only two thingsShifts in my fetishes and in
what turns me on.
Shifts in what I value in arelationship and who I want to
have a relationship with.
Shifts simply in my level ofsex drive.
(32:51):
These are not necessarily agingthings as much as evolving
things.
Now that is not to say thataging is this beautiful journey
of evolution where we grow evermore complicated, lovely
butterflies.
There are some challenges and Ithink one of them I think it's
(33:13):
worth noting there's probablysome ageism in King communities.
Now Let me just say for me thisis really probably related to
gay male culture specifically.
I can't speak about how morebroadly this is.
But there's a big stereotypethat gay culture is
(33:35):
youth-obsessed and that's aspecifically gay, specifically
stereotype.
If we go all the way back tothe classic novel the Picture of
Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde,which is about this obviously
gay man who doesn't age, but hispicture does, that book is
(33:55):
written at this historicalmoment where the modern gay
identity is coming into being.
So it's almost as though themoment the modern gay was
created, this notion of eternalyouth, the absolute
attractiveness of youthfulness,was baked into what it meant to
be gay.
(34:15):
And that means that as we age,we can have a fear that we are
becoming less attractive.
At least, let me be clear Ihave a fear I'm becoming less
attractive.
Is this rational?
No, I'm fairly aware thatpeople still find me attractive
because they say that to me.
But I do notice changes in myskin, that it's a little less
(34:37):
elastic, it's a little morewrinkly.
I do choose to get filler in myface to deal with my nasolabial
folds.
Those are the little lines fromyour nose down to your mouth,
and so if you are particularly agay leather person, gay male
leather person, it can be reallychallenging to grow older
(34:59):
because you could face someageism and I think this becomes
especially true if your kinkidentity does not fall within
that chronological correlation.
So if you're a much older boy,for example, it can be really
challenging for you to feelattractive, to have people treat
(35:20):
you as legitimate.
You may be more likely to faceageism.
I also know that, just ingeneral, there's an element of
ageism in gay male communities.
I have a friend of a friend whowould be online and I think his
actual age is, let's say, 60.
(35:42):
Let's say 65.
The number's not important andhe would not get much attention
at all.
He lowered his age to 55, samephotos, full recent photos, and
suddenly he got a lot ofattention.
So there's a real sense in myexperience that gay men are
especially fearful of the numberwhen it comes to an age less
(36:02):
than the actual aging.
So part of the compl when itcomes to an age less than the
actual aging.
So part of the complication asyou age in kink is dealing with
this ageism and part of thesolution then is to find
inclusive spaces and as part ofthat, a lot of traditional
leather spaces and events.
There's a kind of reverence forage where it's seen as an asset
(36:26):
.
So navigating the complicationsof aging and growing older and
dealing with that ageism andissues of attractiveness, part
of that means finding placeswhere you're valued for your age
because you come perhaps,probably or are assumed to have
(36:49):
more experience.
That's not always true, butthere are inclusive spaces and
it's about finding them.
And the beautiful thing also, Ithink, about people who are
kinksters as they grow older isthat oftentimes we move into
roles of mentorship andleadership, and I think this
podcast for me, is my personalexample.
(37:10):
I do a lot of mentoring in myreal life as well, and of often
much younger people, not always.
Sometimes there are people myage as well.
So navigating the scene as youage becomes complicated because
of ageism, because of, if you'rea gay, male leather person,
because of the youth obsessionof gay culture.
(37:31):
But at the same time, the wayto navigate it is to find those
spaces where you're still fitand where your experience, where
your age is valued.
Not to mention look, there area lot of guys who are into older
men.
I live in Wilton Manors, whichis essentially Fort Lauderdale,
and we have a very particularpopulation of retirement age.
(37:56):
It's very daddy central andthere are therefore a lot of men
who are into daddies as well.
So it's complicated, but notall negative.
It just requires navigation.
As part of that there are a lotof intergenerational
relationships in the Kingcommunity and they're not
(38:16):
necessarily intergenerational.
If we think about daddy-boy, wethink of that as older daddy,
younger boy.
It doesn't have to be that,however.
It is often that, and thebeautiful thing about that is
that each member of that gainssomething from their discrepancy
in age.
So I know I've been with somemuch younger men not in stable
(38:41):
relationships, but they've beena part of my life and they offer
me fresh perspective.
They keep me a little currenton the lingo and what's going on
and the current politics in thecommunity.
So they keep me current andthey offer me fresh perspective
and they have energy that reallykind of inspires me to match
them as much as possible.
(39:01):
That really kind of inspires meto match them as much as
possible and for them, hopefully, what they gain is my
mentorship, my guidance, mywisdom, my experiences that I
share with them quite freely.
So these intergenerationalrelationships are a kind of
compensation for aging and kink,because when there is a great
(39:27):
difference in age, you're ableto trade off and you're able to
really let your deficiencies becompensated by that other person
at that different age, theirstrengths, and that can create a
really beautiful combinationthat stabilizes the relationship
.
As part of this, I think Ishould probably also mention
talk a little bit about youngdaddies.
(39:49):
We do generally think ofdaddies as older and that is a
misconception.
That is a cultural notion,because the fact is there are
literal young daddies, there aremen who are 16-year-old and
having children.
So young fathers is an absolutething.
(40:10):
In general, I think daddy isabout a kind of energy, and that
energy comes from experience,and sometimes you get that
experience simply through aging.
But sometimes you're young andyou go through some hard shit
and that generates as muchexperience and wisdom as aging
itself.
And so young daddy isabsolutely legitimately possible
(40:32):
.
Also, young master I know oneman in particular who started as
a master very young because heknew that's exactly what he was.
Now he's probably I think he'sabout my age, right, we're sort
of not that far different in age.
So there you go.
Another challenge, though, withaging is resistance to change,
(40:56):
and I noticed this in terms ofdifferent political issues with
leather folk of my generation.
I have seen leather folk of mygeneration be dismissive of the
political fights that youngergeneration are fighting and sort
of say that's not important orwhat does that matter, which
obviously comes from a place ofprivilege.
(41:17):
Well, it doesn't matter to you,because you've already secured
your place in the community.
So, yeah, it doesn't matter toyou.
That can be really detrimental.
I really want to inviteeveryone to remain open to
change, and that's not simplychange in politics, it's also
change in technology.
I will say I've done my best tokeep with the technology TikTok
(41:41):
broke me man.
I tried TikTok and my contentwas just going to random people
on their FYP page or FYP andthey would leave just the
cruelest, meanest comments.
So I try to remain flexible.
When it comes to technology,that doesn't always happen and
it's also.
(42:01):
It's not just what's evolving,it's not just the politics that
are evolving, it's not just thetechnology that's evolving, it's
also the kink that's evolvingthat we have the emergence of.
I mean, I know people who havean orc fetish.
That was not something thatexisted in my day and that's
something that might rile peopleof a certain age who are used
(42:23):
to more traditional flavors ofleather.
That does not rile me because Ido my best to keep up with the
scene as it evolves, but thatadapting to new things can be
really challenging as you age.
And it's also about reallylearning to balance tradition
and innovation.
(42:44):
It's about what things do Ikeep and what things do I let go
of, and that's a very personaldecision.
And it's really about what doyou value?
That, the things I value, I'mnot going to change.
I'm going to do my best to passon.
My aesthetic in leather is notthe only aesthetic, is not at
(43:04):
all like a lot of young people'sleather aesthetic and I want to
pass on my leather aesthetic,that doesn't mean I have to
devalue their leather aesthetic.
So, as much as I try to keep upwith the way things evolve and
change as I continue to age, I'malso learning to balance
tradition and innovation, and Iinvite you to do the same.
(43:29):
Finally, I think it's worthtalking about mental health and
aging in kink.
There is an emotional toll whenit comes to aging.
I think people can well.
First of all, you face loss.
There's the loss of yourparents, there's the loss of
partners and as part of that,there can be really challenging
(43:51):
times of caretaking which can beemotionally draining as well,
and that can often end up youcan feel isolated, especially if
the kink community has beenevolving and you don't feel like
you fit into it anymore or youfeel excluded by this younger
generation.
You can end up feeling reallykind of emotionally disconnected
from the community and that'sthe emotional toll of aging.
(44:15):
Beyond the physical changes,beyond the evolutionary changes
in your kink identity, there'sdefinitely a kind of emotional
toll, your kink identity,there's definitely a kind of
emotional toll.
I think for me, part of whatoffsets that is that the
beautiful thing about aging isthat you find your kink peers.
I know people.
(44:36):
I know who my peers are becausewe all remember Leather
Navigator.
We all remember America Online.
We all remember IRC.
We all remember IRC.
We all remember the lore.
We all remember the firstFolsom East.
We all remember MAL, when itwas really small.
We have a shared set ofexperiences that connect us to
(44:56):
each other, even when we aren'tnecessarily close or we don't
even know each other.
But I could make you a list ofmy peers, simply because I've
seen them for decades in onlinespaces and in real life spaces.
And just knowing I have a groupof peers gives me comfort
because it means I'm not alone,even if I'm single, even if I
(45:20):
don't currently have a partner,even if I live alone.
Those things are all true of me.
I'm single, even if I don'tcurrently have a partner, even
if I live alone right, thosethings are all true of me.
I'm not alone because I have anetwork of peers.
I have to activate that network.
I have to connect with thosepeople, but when I do, then I
have the ability to reminisceand recall shared experiences
(45:42):
and shared fears and sharedhopes.
And so, as you age, I hope youwill also find your peers.
That's my take on aging and kinkthat it comes with a set of
challenges in terms of dealingwith changes in your body, in
your sexual kink identity, inyour body, in your sexual kink
(46:07):
identity and in the scene.
But it comes with a set ofadvantages.
That may be about new pleasuresdiscovered in other parts of
the body, that might be aboutnew sexual kink identities.
That might simply be aboutconnecting with someone of a
different age so that y'all cancomplete each other's strengths
and weaknesses.
So I don't think aging isnecessarily something to fear.
It's certainly not something wecan stop.
(46:28):
So my best advice for you is tomeet the challenge of aging by
looking for what it gives you inthis moment and doing your best
to navigate what it takes fromyou moment to moment as well,
and certainly remembering thataging is an incredible privilege
(46:48):
.
I sincerely, sincerely wishthat you continue to age.
And finally, we have Ask Edge,the segment where I answer
questions from all of you.
If you would like to submit aquestion, you can email it to
ask at full cow dot show.
(47:10):
That's ask at full cow dot show.
Or, even better, you can leaveme a voicemail at speakpipecom
slash leather edge.
That's speakpipecom slashl-t-h-r-e-d-g-e, and both of
those links are available in theshow notes.
(47:30):
This time we have one questionfrom Charlie.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Edge.
This is Charlie Brainstorming.
This morning I think you shouldhave me on your show for
perhaps a 15-minute interview orlonger to talk about leather
avatars and the use of paradoxin the creation of modern
(48:00):
leather identities.
And who am I to talk about this?
Well, I'm somebody who thinksabout this.
What I mean by avatars arepeople like yourself, or Ralph
Bruno or Steve Perry, who havecurated an identity and
actualized it, selected variousstrands of life in which to
(48:25):
participate, which includeleather, and brought them
together and made this exquisitetapestry of them that exists in
their life.
Their life is a work of art.
So part of that is paradox,right, the bringing together of
two things which seemingly don'tmake sense together.
(48:49):
So psychotherapy and porn.
You know, there's the oldexample of Colton Haynes, who
had a porn career and then was ateenage heartthrob on Teen Wolf
.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Anyway, this is not a fully and unfortunately the
voicemail cuts off there.
However, I certainly get thepoint that you're making and
it's a curious idea.
You know, I've really pulledback from having guests on this
show, primarily because oflogistics.
I found it very challenging,given my life and its fullness,
(49:24):
to locate a guest, reach out tothem, find a date that's going
to work for them and me,coordinate all of that, get a
high quality recording, edit it,bring it back into Audacity to
produce the podcast, and so fora while now, if I can avoid
having a guest, I do, but Ithink it's really interesting to
(49:49):
.
I like the idea, right.
I like the idea of bringingother voices into the podcast.
That's part of what ask edge isabout and that's part of why
originally I had a segment thatwas an interview, so that you
could hear, literally hear, hear, yeah, yeah, that is literal
literally hear other voices.
So what I'm curious about isperhaps creating using something
(50:10):
like SpeakPipe, where peoplecan leave their own segments and
where I can assemble an episodewith people's stories about
kink and simply offer someframing or context.
So that might be something I dofor season four, assuming I do
(50:33):
a season four.
The podcast has been a lot ofwork lately and that has a lot
to do with what else is going onin my life and also what's not
going on in my life.
So the future of this podcastfor me is a little uncertain.
Certainly I will finish seasonthree and I would hope I move
into season four, but we'll seeIf I do.
I think one of the new featuresI'd like to consider is this
(50:55):
sort of people can leave a10-minute story, a 10-minute
episode on SpeakPipe.
I'll have to see the time limiton SpeakPipe, but leave it
somewhere, because that frees mefrom all the logistical work.
It allows them to plop in theirstory whenever they want and
redo it as many times as theylike until they get a version
(51:17):
they want me to use and then Ican very, very easily pop that
into an episode and add someframing, context or response.
So I'm unlikely to have you onthe podcast because I'm unlikely
to have anyone on the podcast,which isn't strictly true.
There are a couple of topicsI've kind of committed to in my
(51:38):
head that will require a guest,but generally speaking I'm
avoiding guests on the podcast.
Will require a guest, butgenerally speaking I'm avoiding
guests on the podcast.
But your suggestion is actuallyopening up ideas for me of how
this podcast may continue toevolve in the future, and so I'm
very grateful for that and forthe rest of you.
Please stay tuned.
In the meantime, I encourage youto submit questions to Ask Edge
(52:00):
so that I can have content forthis segment.
And again, you can ask meanything.
It doesn't have to be profound,it doesn't have to be deep.
You can try to get to knowabout me.
That's something that happens alot on my Ask Me Anythings on
Instagram, which can be a lot offun, and it's okay, right, like
, if I don't get questions, I'lljust have a shorter podcast or
I'll do another kind of segment.
(52:21):
But I really deeply love gettingquestions from people and I
want to thank all of you, likeCharlie, who've taken the time
to leave something at SpeakPipe,because that really allows me
some feedback that feels veryvisceral and immediate to me but
also, I think, really enhancesand enriches what I can offer in
this podcast.
(52:41):
So, thanks to all of you,consider leaving a question.
If you don't, it's okay.
I'm not going to be mad andthat's all we have for this
episode of Full Cow.
I want to thank everyone forjoining me.
I hope you've enjoyed theepisode as a whole and, as
always, always, always, I wishyou such a blessed leather
journey, such a blessed leatherjourney, and that's it for this
(53:06):
episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Please consider subscribing, oryou can send feedback to edge
at fullcowshow, as always.
May your leather journey beblessed.
Let's talk about aging, that you are an adult.
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcastabout leather kink and BDSM.
(00:41):
My name is Edge, my pronounsare he, him, and I'm your host.
In this episode we'll betalking about aging in kink,
which can be a fairlycomplicated issue, since aging
comes with certain advantagesand certain disadvantages.
So I'll share my own journeygrowing up in the kink community
(01:03):
and then give something like ahow-to segment that provides
some cautionary tales to watchas you grow older.
And then we have one.
Ask Edge question for this time.
So I think it's a pretty goodepisode.
Let's get started.
Get started we're always aging.
(01:32):
You're aging right now.
However, what I have learnedthrough hard experience is that
you become aware of the factthat you're aging at certain
moments, and those moments in myexperience have been very
complicated.
But let me start at somethinglike the beginning.
My 20s were fantastic in manyways.
(01:52):
Actually, every decade I'veexperienced has been fantastic,
but what the 20s gave me wassort of boundless energy,
including boundless sexualenergy, and that offered me a
bit of an advantage as I wasexploring kink, as I was
relentless at findingexperiences, and so I was able
(02:12):
to accumulate quite a bit ofkink experience from an early
age, which correlated toaccumulating quite a bit of
wisdom, which is also to say,not every one of those kink
experiences was positive, butthey were each a learning kind
of moment.
I was so horny in my 20s Iwould masturbate five times a
(02:36):
day.
I was always online evaluatingpotential partners and looking
for a hookup, and wouldsometimes drive hours for a
unique and complicated scene,and I think for me, the
ebullience of youth is a uniqueadvantage that comes with
(02:57):
starting kink early.
So if you're in your 20s too.
On the one hand, you may nothave much experience 20s too.
On the one hand, you may nothave much experience, people may
not take you too seriously, butyou have a seemingly endless
supply of energy that will allowyou to pursue your kink
(03:18):
adventures.
I remember I could be out tilltwo or three.
Actually, I remember I would goto the Lure, which is the bar
in New York, and I took thetrain in from New Jersey.
And you know New Jersey transitstopped operating at I think
140 or something was the lasttrain and the bar closed at two.
So I would always have to makethis decision like am I going to
leave for Penn Station or am Igoing to stay?
(03:40):
And I would often stay and thenbe at Penn Station at like
three in the morning waiting fora 4 am train or something
horrible.
The point is that in my youth Iwas able to stay out all night
and that really allowed me tomaximize my search for
experiences I wanted and needed.
I promise you that is notsomething I can do now.
(04:03):
So I think the special thingabout the 20s is that energy and
that hunger you may experiencefor kink which will drive you
towards the goals you set foryourself.
My 30s, instead, were about kindof growing up, and that
(04:24):
included were about kind ofgrowing up, and that would
include, you know, actually Iwould say it included
transitions.
So in my thirties I moved hereto Florida.
In my thirties I started mymain career.
In my thirties I transitionedfrom bottom slash boy to top
slash sir and that involved alot of growth and development.
(04:46):
So I think the 30s for me werethis sort of growth stage.
They were a decade oftransition and transformation
and I was becoming to understandwho I was and who I could be,
and that was the unique benefitof my 30s.
I don't recall losing that muchenergy.
(05:09):
I think I could still kind ofgo pretty hard.
So the 30s were pretty goodthat way.
And if you're in your 30s, Ireally want to invite you to
consider the transformationsyou're undergoing at this stage
in your life and to value them,because the 30s really set me up
for some amazing decades tocome.
(05:31):
40s were very good to me, butthey were also the decade when I
first started noticing that Iwas aging and I mean a lot of
things happened in my 40s.
This is where I experienced myfirst profound losses.
My mother passed away, myhusband passed away and
(05:53):
especially the loss of myhusband was so very difficult.
And I got to know grief alittle too well for my tastes,
but I got to know grief and inmany ways it was a decade of
ascendancy.
I was growing up and growingmore in my career, in my
(06:14):
finances, in my leathercollection, in my kink
experience, but I was alsonoticing shifts in my body.
None of these were thattroubling.
You know I got diagnosed with,I think.
I might have had high bloodpressure in my 30s.
It's been a while.
I think, I probably hadgastroesophageal reflux disease
(06:36):
in my 40s.
Like in 40s, your body startssaying hey, you know, I've been
running for a long time andthings are going to need a
little bit of support.
That's sort of what my 40s werefor me.
Another really big shift in my40s is I experienced what I
think was a massive shift in mysex drive, and I don't know what
(06:57):
exactly I can attribute this to.
On the one hand, it could justbe changes in my body and my
hormones.
This to, on the one hand, itcould just be changes in my body
and my hormones, but I think itwas also the fact that I had
been exploring kink for so longthat I had really accumulated a
set of very satisfyingexperiences.
So I was less driven toexperience everything because I
had, at that point, mostlyexperienced everything I wanted
(07:22):
and some things I didn't.
So the 40s was maybe a decadeof consolidation, where I was
dealing with the harsh realitiesof life in terms of aging and
things like death, but alsoconsolidating my sense of myself
as a leather person, myinterest in kink, in fact, as
(07:43):
part of that, I remember Irealized in my 40s that I
thought I was into things, butthey were just things I used to
be into.
I hadn't really stopped toreflect on what I was still into
and I did some of that innerwork.
You know, fetishes change.
Some fade, some rise, somedevelop out of nowhere, and a
(08:06):
lot of that happened for me inmy 40s.
So I discovered maybe a coupleof new kinks, but I also really
shifted where my kink energy wasgoing.
I mean, the biggest example isbondage my 20s I was all about
bondage.
That was my start.
If you've listened to thepodcast you may already know
that.
And then the 30s were really alot about cigars and in my 40s I
(08:32):
still enjoyed cigars but I didvery few cigar sex scenes.
I still enjoyed bondage, but itwasn't as central to my kink
sexuality as it used to be.
I began to develop more of aninterest in impact, play and
pain as a pathway to intimacy.
I began being more interestedon what was inside a person
(08:55):
instead of the outside, less howthey looked and more some sense
of how we connected.
That really began in my 40s.
I am in my early, almost mymid-50s.
I'm currently 53.
In about a month, on Halloween,if you're curious yes, actually
Halloween, actually October31st I will turn 54.
(09:18):
My 50s in many ways have beensimply amazing.
I have reached this sort ofpinnacle of so many things.
I've achieved so many goals inmy life I've achieved career
goals and financial goals andanything I could have ever
imagined doing or having inleather I have done or now have,
(09:41):
and that is a blessing, whichis not simply related to aging,
obviously, but related to allsorts of intersectional
privileges that I carry with methat position me to succeed
economically, socially,culturally, things like that.
So I don't want to minimize myprivilege, but I do feel like
the 50s are a decade of enjoyingmy success, and I hope that if
(10:09):
you're in your 50s, it's adecade for you to enjoy your
success as well.
At the same time, I am nowacutely aware of aging.
In the past couple of years I'vehad peers who have had heart
attacks, who have had strokes,who have dealt with cancer, and
(10:30):
that's relatively new.
That didn't really happen untilmy 50s.
And so if my 40s was aboutlearning about the death of
others including I lost both myparents and my husband my 50s
are bringing me face to facewith the possibility of my own
demise, and that is verysobering, in case you're
(10:52):
wondering.
So all my peers are facingthese health issues and I can't
help but wonder oh, when is mynumber up, when is my turn?
And that doesn't cause anxiety.
I don't live in that kind offear, but it really.
Instead, I invert it towards agratitude for this day, that I
(11:15):
am here today, I have my healthtoday, I have a really rich and
fulfilling life today, andgratitude could also then be a
theme of my 50s that I'm reallygrateful for everything I've
experienced, everything I have,everything I've accomplished.
The flip side of thataccomplishment is also a sense
of well, what's next?
It's a kind of midlife-y Ithink my therapist has called it
(11:38):
an existential crisis sort ofoh okay, well, I've reached all
my goals, what?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
am.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
I going to do next, and that means I've contemplated
some career changes.
I have really refocused, I'vepulled back from leather events,
I've pulled back from play.
I'm really being thoughtfulabout relationships.
I am learning new things aboutmy sexuality, that I'm very gray
, sexual with a littledemisexual, that all of these
things are helping me figure outwhat's next for me, because
(12:07):
there's still a drive to keepachieving.
But if you've achievedeverything, then what do you do?
Well, you figure out new thingsto achieve.
I am hopeful that I will liveinto my 60s and hopeful that I
will learn the lessons that thatdecade offers me, that I will
(12:29):
learn the lessons that thatdecade offers me.
But for all of you, I would sayyou don't have to think about
aging.
In fact, I encourage you not tothink about aging, because
there will come a point when youcan't help but think about
aging, when your body changes,when your friends change, when
your life circumstances changein ways that are connected to
the fact that you are growingolder, and there's no reason to
(12:51):
rush that moment.
I promise you, there is noreason to rush it.
There's also no reason toregret aging.
There's no reason to fear aging.
There's no reason to regret theloss of youth.
I will say obviously, if I hadmy fantasy, I would be able to
take every single thing I havenow, all the material goodies
(13:14):
and toys and prizes I have andall of the wisdom and experience
I have, and I would like tojust sort of be rewound
biologically, say 20 years.
That would be really nice, butit doesn't work that way.
And now then here's the effingironic thing when I was younger,
everyone around me who wasolder would be like wow, I wish
(13:34):
I had all this experience andwas younger.
And I'm like blah, blah, blah.
And now here I am.
One of the worst things aboutaging is you find yourself
saying things that older peopleused to say when you were
younger and that you woulddismiss.
And then you're like God damnit, they were right.
And then God damn it.
Now I'm that older person.
(13:57):
So, wherever you are in yourjourney of aging, I want to
encourage you to not be toomindful of aging, since aging
will mind you at a certain point.
But I also want to encourageyou to embrace what your age
offers, and I think this isespecially important, maybe the
(14:18):
younger you are.
I think when I was in my 20s, Ihad such a part of the drive to
get experience, to get gear, togo to events was this horrible
sense of what I didn't have,that I didn't have that pair of
chaps, or I didn't have a reallygood leather jacket, or I
didn't have lager boots or Ididn't have which drove my
(14:39):
search for those things and mydesire to get them that I don't
think I stopped to reflect onwhat I did have.
And what I did have wasboundless, relentless energy and
an ability to pursue all thosethings I didn't have.
(15:00):
So I think, if you're in your20s.
I would just suggest don'tfocus on what you're missing
right now, but focus on whatthat age uniquely provides you
that is not provided as you age.
And if you're in your 30s, Ihope that the transformations
you are undergoing if indeed youare like me and undergo
(15:21):
transformations in your 30s Ihope that they're smooth and
because obviously that amount ofchange can be very challenging
and take quite a while toprocess and integrate.
So I wish you strength and Iwish you navigation as you move
through the transformations ofthe 30s.
If you're in your 40s, enjoy.
(15:43):
They're really kind of abeautiful decade and I hope they
are beautiful for you.
And if you're with me, in your50s, not too bad right, not too
bad.
I feel like I'm at the peak ofmany things, which is fantastic,
but that comes with anunderstanding that on the other
side of the peak is downhill.
On the other side of the peakis downhill.
(16:05):
Hopefully I won't reach thattoo soon and hopefully you won't
either.
So I wish you well, not only onyour leather journey, but on
your journey in aging as well.
In the first segment, I focusedon my own personal experience
of aging, but in this segment,personal experience of aging.
(16:27):
But in this segment I wouldlike to reflect a little bit
more on some broader topics orthings to think about in
relation to aging and kink, andlet me start with two important
caveats.
Number one aging is privilege.
To be able to age means thatyou have access to affordable
(16:47):
health care, that you haveaccess to nutritious food and
don't live in a food desert, youhave safe shelter and clean
water, you don't live in a placewith high environmental
pollution or high environmentalvulnerability, and you live in a
place not ravaged by war orviolence.
All of these things areprivileges and, like all
(17:10):
privilege, it becomes invisible.
But I just want to foregroundthe fact that, as much as we
want to sort of talk about howhorrible it is to age, it is a
blessing to age.
It is not something thateveryone gets, that everyone is
able to achieve, often becauseof their socioeconomic,
(17:31):
political, geographicalcircumstances.
So the fact that you'relistening to this today, that
you've reached whatever age youare, is a gift that reflects
some level of privilege, and Iwould like us all invite us all
at least to be aware of that.
The second big caveat is thatthere is no inherent connection
(17:52):
between chronological age andkink identity.
Let me repeat that there is noinherent connection between
chronological age and kinkidentity.
That means that you could startas a boy at 67 or start as a
dominant at age 19.
Now there's often a correlationbetween age and kink identity.
(18:17):
In gay male kink cultures thereare a lot of young boys and
there are a lot of young boysand there are a lot of older
daddies.
But that correlation is not acausation.
Now that can make thingschallenging if you don't
necessarily match thecorrelation.
So if you are a very youngdaddy, that could be problematic
(18:41):
for you as well as if you're amuch older boy, and we'll talk a
little bit about navigatingthat.
At the same time, it's useful toremember that each age has
certain affordances.
So if you are young anddominant, you have more energy,
you have more sex drive, youhave more ability to pursue
things.
You have more sex drive, youhave more ability to pursue
(19:05):
things.
And if you're an older cub, forexample, that means you bring
to any relationship you enterinto a lifetime of experience
with communication, probablysome emotional stability, some
life wisdom in general.
The other part of this is that,because there's no inherent
connection between chronologicalage and kink identity, over
time our kink identities canevolve bidirectionally, and that
(19:28):
might mean evolving fromsomeone who's dominant to
someone who's submissive laterin life or evolving, and this is
fairly common, from someonewho's submissive to someone
who's dominant, and this isfairly common from someone who's
submissive to someone who'sdominant.
(19:49):
As a final corollary of thiscaveat, please believe people
when they tell you their kinkidentity.
So, even if someone looksreally young, if they call
themselves a mistress, believethey are a mistress.
Even if someone looks mucholder and they call themselves a
boy, believe they are a boy.
Affirm who they are, please.
In terms of the sort ofpracticalities of aging and kink
(20:12):
, probably the most importantthing to be cognizant of is the
physical changes that happen aswe age.
Now, ideally before any scene,if you are the top or the bottom
, there's some discussion ofsort of biomechanics.
Are there joints that are alittle tricky?
(20:32):
Are there health conditionsthat could crop up in the middle
of a scene?
And if you are in charge of thescene, no matter your kink
identity, it's really incumbenton you to be asking those
questions.
But if you are submitting inthe scene, it is as incumbent on
you to make sure the personknows if you have particular
(20:54):
biomechanical issues.
As we age, obviously these growand we may encounter more and
more physical limitations, and Irecall a very, very special
dear friend of mine in New York,david Stein, who was a huge,
important figure in the leathercommunity, who in fact came up
with the term safe, sane,consensual, and he was
(21:23):
submissive, identifiedthroughout his life and faced a
lot of challenges as he grewolder, not simply in finding men
who would see him as thesubmissive that he is, but he
had a lot of problems kneelingthat was physically difficult
for him because of his healthconditions and that would
obviously require sorts ofaccommodations to help him
submit in a way that wassignificant but didn't involve
(21:43):
kneeling.
Even before we reach a largerage, an older age, I don't know,
I don't want to put it, I don'twant to talk about people being
old.
That's what I'm trying to avoidEven before then.
Biomechanical issues can happenat any point in time and it's
important to understand that aswe age, they become more likely.
(22:06):
So that's an even more importantdiscussion to have Now.
The good news is, if there arebiomechanical issues, you can
certainly make adjustments tothe play.
You do so, for example, for alot of men.
I play with a lot of men whohave joint issues, and so I'm
less likely to do bondage withhands behind the back.
I'm more likely to do eitherrestraints with hands at the
(22:29):
side or hands in front.
That also might mean takingmore breaks or having fewer
really physically demandingkinks and doing more mental play
, maybe like sensory deprivation.
So as we age, not only does ourbody change, but the way we
play might change as well.
(22:51):
And that's not loss, that is ashift.
That is not less, it isdifferent.
As the body changes, there areincrease in health
considerations, obviously, andyou'll have to plan with those
scenes in mind, and that canhappen again at any time, for
gay men in particular oneparticular—I used particular
(23:15):
twice, I'm so sorry—one physicalchange that is very common and
that triggers a lot of fear hasto do with virility.
Now, in our culture we tend toconnect the penis to maleness,
even though penis potency is notat all an indicator of one's
(23:35):
amount of maleness.
In fact, the penis is not anindicator of one's amount of
maleness.
But especially in the gay maleculture and not just the king
culture, broadly the gay maleculture there's a sense that
there's a real fear of yourpenis not working as well as you
age, and this has gotten toridiculous levels.
(23:59):
I know people who are prettyyoung I mean, I'm not going to
say how young, pretty young whoare using Trimix because they
have an anxiety around theirpenis potency getting hard and
staying hard.
Now I understand this because Ihave a prescription for boner
pills that includes Cialis andsome other special ingredients
(24:21):
and my penis works fine.
I really don't need those.
But I certainly do miss my 20swhere the slightest breeze could
cause me a rock-hard erectionand I wanted to recover that,
and I will admit that that isnot necessarily the edge I want
to be.
I would like to be a little bitmore comfortable with my aging
(24:43):
and I'm mostly comfortable withit.
But around my penis I'm lettingthose larger cultural pressures
about maleness impact me alittle.
I don't use my boner pillshardly ever.
If you need me to fuck you, I'mgoing to have a boner pill,
because I'm not really wired forfucking.
But I'm happy to do that forpeople.
(25:03):
But the boner pill helps there.
So if it helps, if it helps.
The beautiful thing about kinkis that it is not necessarily
genital focused at all.
Whether you have a penis orwhatever genitals you have.
I like to think of kink as aset of technologies that can
(25:24):
extract pleasure from any pointon the body.
Left ear, oh pleasure.
Back, oh pleasure.
Right.
Big toe, oh, let's get somepleasure from there.
Oh, belly button, we're goingto find some pleasure there.
Ass cheek, yeah, yeah, pleasurethere.
With kink I can point to anypart of the body and use it to
(25:49):
generate pleasure.
Janital potency is not the only,and often is not the primary
source of pleasure in kink, andtherefore kink allows us to
access pleasure all over, andthat means if you're a kinky
person, that you don't have toworry about genital potency or
genital orgasm.
(26:10):
That doesn't mean you don'thave to like it.
Some people are really huge onorgasm.
Right, it helps that I'm alittle gray sexual and orgasm's
like meh, okay, orgasm's great,but I don't need it.
But the broader issue is that aswe age, the beauty is no matter
what our genitals are doing.
We have access to pleasure thatis equal to, and sometimes
(26:32):
greater than, orgasm, becauseorgasm lasts for a couple
seconds.
But I can be generatingpleasure through tit play for
hours, you know hours.
You know, orgasm lasts for acouple seconds.
I can be giving someonepleasure through fisting for
hours and there's a sense inwhich kink as a technology for
(26:53):
pleasure, a technology thatextracts pleasure from any point
on the body, means that it is abeautiful thing to age in,
because our capacity forpleasure does not shrink as we
age.
Our capacity for pleasure doesnot shrink as we age.
(27:13):
So, beyond these physicalchanges and therefore physical
adjustments that come with kinkand aging physical changes, and
therefore physical adjustmentsthat come with kink and aging.
There are probably going to besome shifting roles and dynamics
.
Now, generally, I try to makemy content gender or sexuality
(27:33):
agnostic, because I feel likekink is fairly the same no
matter your gender or sexidentity.
But I will for a moment turnspecifically to gay male
communities and talk about whatI call the daddy turn.
And this is a specifically gaymale experience, and here's what
the daddy turn is.
You're trucking along, enjoyingyour kink, living your best
(27:55):
leather life, and at some point,at some point, younger men will
approach you and call you daddy.
Now this can be either verytroubling or very empowering.
It can be a painful moment ofmisrecognition if you identify
(28:15):
as a boy and people startcalling you daddy because it can
remind you that you're agingout of that correlative dynamic,
that kind of assumption thatboys are young.
And so it's that moment whenyou realize, wow, it's about to
get a lot harder for me to liveas a boy, because now people
want to call me daddy.
But for some other people, ifyou've been daddy identified,
(28:36):
since you were 17, then this canconfirm your lifelong identity.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
It can be oh, finally at last people see me as I see
myself.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I think for most of us it can be a really complex
moment and I think my experienceis fairly common and my
experience was I resisted ituntil I didn't.
So what you might find when youhit the daddy turn, there'll be
these young men calling youdaddy and at first you'll be
like no, I'm not a daddy, sorry.
(29:07):
No, I'm not a daddy, sorry.
But sooner or later you may findyourself realizing that they're
really hot, they are just hot,and so you might try on daddy,
and then for some of us it willfit.
And this represents anevolutionary transformation and
it very much was.
My daddy turn happened in thelate 1900s right, I've talked
(29:32):
about this in a couple episodesthis movement from being bottom
slash boy identified to beingtop slash sir identified and it
was driven by people calling mesir and me having to take that
identity on, not moving into theidentity and finding boys to
meet it.
So I experienced a daddy turnand it was evolutionary and I
think it's a pretty commonevolution from top to bottom.
(29:56):
That daddy turn moment thathappens a lot in gay male
communities, that daddy turnmoment that happens a lot in gay
male communities.
But in general, with aging youmight expect to evolve into
different roles and that mightmean moving from dominant to
submission, submission todominant, becoming more
(30:16):
versatile, becoming more fluid,becoming more flexible.
You might change your genderidentity, you might change your
understanding of your sexuality.
This is what happened to methat I didn't really come to
understand and actually I can'tpromise you I've always been gay
, gray sexual and gay sexual.
I can't promise you that I'vealways been gray sexual.
(30:36):
For all I know it was anevolution, but my understanding
of my sexuality has evolved intograysexuality and demisexuality
.
So it's going to be normal toexperience evolution as you age
and you may feel like a pup now.
You may grow into a handler,you may transform into a master
(30:58):
and then transform into a slave.
That the pathways possible arevery diverse.
I'm tempted to say endless,semi-endless, but they are very
diverse.
And this also means evolvingbeyond roles that are very
active.
I would hope, as I, you know,there comes a point where I no
(31:21):
longer want to be on the appsand at the leather bar.
This is me very personally.
There's going to come a pointwhere I just don't want to be at
a certain age doing that, I'mjust not going to be.
That's not what I want.
But that doesn't mean I want tonecessarily retire from the
leather community.
Instead, I see myself evolvingeven further into roles of
(31:45):
mentorship and guidance.
So this notion that as we age,not only do we face physical
changes, but we evolve mentally,emotionally, through different
sexual kink capacities that'sreally quite natural and to be
expected and then, as part ofthis, these new capacities
provide us new adventures, newemotional connections, new kinds
(32:09):
of intimacy that then becomemore significant and can deepen
as we age.
So if you've listened to thepodcast, you know that I really
awakened to what feels to me amore authentic kind of dominance
, really quite recently.
That's part of that emotionalevolution that was also part of
(32:30):
my aging.
Aging is a physical evolutionand my development of my
dominance has been an emotionalevolution.
And those are two things thathave happened to me as I aged,
and not the only two thingsShifts in my fetishes and in
what turns me on.
Shifts in what I value in arelationship and who I want to
have a relationship with.
Shifts simply in my level ofsex drive.
(32:51):
These are not necessarily agingthings as much as evolving
things.
Now that is not to say thataging is this beautiful journey
of evolution where we grow evermore complicated, lovely
butterflies.
There are some challenges and Ithink one of them I think it's
(33:13):
worth noting there's probablysome ageism in King communities.
Now Let me just say for me thisis really probably related to
gay male culture specifically.
I can't speak about how morebroadly this is.
But there's a big stereotypethat gay culture is
(33:35):
youth-obsessed and that's aspecifically gay, specifically
stereotype.
If we go all the way back tothe classic novel the Picture of
Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde,which is about this obviously
gay man who doesn't age, but hispicture does, that book is
(33:55):
written at this historicalmoment where the modern gay
identity is coming into being.
So it's almost as though themoment the modern gay was
created, this notion of eternalyouth, the absolute
attractiveness of youthfulness,was baked into what it meant to
be gay.
(34:15):
And that means that as we age,we can have a fear that we are
becoming less attractive.
At least, let me be clear Ihave a fear I'm becoming less
attractive.
Is this rational?
No, I'm fairly aware thatpeople still find me attractive
because they say that to me.
But I do notice changes in myskin, that it's a little less
(34:37):
elastic, it's a little morewrinkly.
I do choose to get filler in myface to deal with my nasolabial
folds.
Those are the little lines fromyour nose down to your mouth,
and so if you are particularly agay leather person, gay male
leather person, it can be reallychallenging to grow older
(34:59):
because you could face someageism and I think this becomes
especially true if your kinkidentity does not fall within
that chronological correlation.
So if you're a much older boy,for example, it can be really
challenging for you to feelattractive, to have people treat
(35:20):
you as legitimate.
You may be more likely to faceageism.
I also know that, just ingeneral, there's an element of
ageism in gay male communities.
I have a friend of a friend whowould be online and I think his
actual age is, let's say, 60.
(35:42):
Let's say 65.
The number's not important andhe would not get much attention
at all.
He lowered his age to 55, samephotos, full recent photos, and
suddenly he got a lot ofattention.
So there's a real sense in myexperience that gay men are
especially fearful of the numberwhen it comes to an age less
(36:02):
than the actual aging.
So part of the compl when itcomes to an age less than the
actual aging.
So part of the complication asyou age in kink is dealing with
this ageism and part of thesolution then is to find
inclusive spaces and as part ofthat, a lot of traditional
leather spaces and events.
There's a kind of reverence forage where it's seen as an asset
(36:26):
.
So navigating the complicationsof aging and growing older and
dealing with that ageism andissues of attractiveness, part
of that means finding placeswhere you're valued for your age
because you come perhaps,probably or are assumed to have
(36:49):
more experience.
That's not always true, butthere are inclusive spaces and
it's about finding them.
And the beautiful thing also, Ithink, about people who are
kinksters as they grow older isthat oftentimes we move into
roles of mentorship andleadership, and I think this
podcast for me, is my personalexample.
(37:10):
I do a lot of mentoring in myreal life as well, and of often
much younger people, not always.
Sometimes there are people myage as well.
So navigating the scene as youage becomes complicated because
of ageism, because of, if you'rea gay, male leather person,
because of the youth obsessionof gay culture.
(37:31):
But at the same time, the wayto navigate it is to find those
spaces where you're still fitand where your experience, where
your age is valued.
Not to mention look, there area lot of guys who are into older
men.
I live in Wilton Manors, whichis essentially Fort Lauderdale,
and we have a very particularpopulation of retirement age.
(37:56):
It's very daddy central andthere are therefore a lot of men
who are into daddies as well.
So it's complicated, but notall negative.
It just requires navigation.
As part of that there are a lotof intergenerational
relationships in the Kingcommunity and they're not
(38:16):
necessarily intergenerational.
If we think about daddy-boy, wethink of that as older daddy,
younger boy.
It doesn't have to be that,however.
It is often that, and thebeautiful thing about that is
that each member of that gainssomething from their discrepancy
in age.
So I know I've been with somemuch younger men not in stable
(38:41):
relationships, but they've beena part of my life and they offer
me fresh perspective.
They keep me a little currenton the lingo and what's going on
and the current politics in thecommunity.
So they keep me current andthey offer me fresh perspective
and they have energy that reallykind of inspires me to match
them as much as possible.
(39:01):
That really kind of inspires meto match them as much as
possible and for them, hopefully, what they gain is my
mentorship, my guidance, mywisdom, my experiences that I
share with them quite freely.
So these intergenerationalrelationships are a kind of
compensation for aging and kink,because when there is a great
(39:27):
difference in age, you're ableto trade off and you're able to
really let your deficiencies becompensated by that other person
at that different age, theirstrengths, and that can create a
really beautiful combinationthat stabilizes the relationship
.
As part of this, I think Ishould probably also mention
talk a little bit about youngdaddies.
(39:49):
We do generally think ofdaddies as older and that is a
misconception.
That is a cultural notion,because the fact is there are
literal young daddies, there aremen who are 16-year-old and
having children.
So young fathers is an absolutething.
(40:10):
In general, I think daddy isabout a kind of energy, and that
energy comes from experience,and sometimes you get that
experience simply through aging.
But sometimes you're young andyou go through some hard shit
and that generates as muchexperience and wisdom as aging
itself.
And so young daddy isabsolutely legitimately possible
(40:32):
.
Also, young master I know oneman in particular who started as
a master very young because heknew that's exactly what he was.
Now he's probably I think he'sabout my age, right, we're sort
of not that far different in age.
So there you go.
Another challenge, though, withaging is resistance to change,
(40:56):
and I noticed this in terms ofdifferent political issues with
leather folk of my generation.
I have seen leather folk of mygeneration be dismissive of the
political fights that youngergeneration are fighting and sort
of say that's not important orwhat does that matter, which
obviously comes from a place ofprivilege.
(41:17):
Well, it doesn't matter to you,because you've already secured
your place in the community.
So, yeah, it doesn't matter toyou.
That can be really detrimental.
I really want to inviteeveryone to remain open to
change, and that's not simplychange in politics, it's also
change in technology.
I will say I've done my best tokeep with the technology TikTok
(41:41):
broke me man.
I tried TikTok and my contentwas just going to random people
on their FYP page or FYP andthey would leave just the
cruelest, meanest comments.
So I try to remain flexible.
When it comes to technology,that doesn't always happen and
it's also.
(42:01):
It's not just what's evolving,it's not just the politics that
are evolving, it's not just thetechnology that's evolving, it's
also the kink that's evolvingthat we have the emergence of.
I mean, I know people who havean orc fetish.
That was not something thatexisted in my day and that's
something that might rile peopleof a certain age who are used
(42:23):
to more traditional flavors ofleather.
That does not rile me because Ido my best to keep up with the
scene as it evolves, but thatadapting to new things can be
really challenging as you age.
And it's also about reallylearning to balance tradition
and innovation.
(42:44):
It's about what things do Ikeep and what things do I let go
of, and that's a very personaldecision.
And it's really about what doyou value?
That, the things I value, I'mnot going to change.
I'm going to do my best to passon.
My aesthetic in leather is notthe only aesthetic, is not at
(43:04):
all like a lot of young people'sleather aesthetic and I want to
pass on my leather aesthetic,that doesn't mean I have to
devalue their leather aesthetic.
So, as much as I try to keep upwith the way things evolve and
change as I continue to age, I'malso learning to balance
tradition and innovation, and Iinvite you to do the same.
(43:29):
Finally, I think it's worthtalking about mental health and
aging in kink.
There is an emotional toll whenit comes to aging.
I think people can well.
First of all, you face loss.
There's the loss of yourparents, there's the loss of
partners and as part of that,there can be really challenging
(43:51):
times of caretaking which can beemotionally draining as well,
and that can often end up youcan feel isolated, especially if
the kink community has beenevolving and you don't feel like
you fit into it anymore or youfeel excluded by this younger
generation.
You can end up feeling reallykind of emotionally disconnected
from the community and that'sthe emotional toll of aging.
(44:15):
Beyond the physical changes,beyond the evolutionary changes
in your kink identity, there'sdefinitely a kind of emotional
toll, your kink identity,there's definitely a kind of
emotional toll.
I think for me, part of whatoffsets that is that the
beautiful thing about aging isthat you find your kink peers.
I know people.
(44:36):
I know who my peers are becausewe all remember Leather
Navigator.
We all remember America Online.
We all remember IRC.
We all remember IRC.
We all remember the lore.
We all remember the firstFolsom East.
We all remember MAL, when itwas really small.
We have a shared set ofexperiences that connect us to
(44:56):
each other, even when we aren'tnecessarily close or we don't
even know each other.
But I could make you a list ofmy peers, simply because I've
seen them for decades in onlinespaces and in real life spaces.
And just knowing I have a groupof peers gives me comfort
because it means I'm not alone,even if I'm single, even if I
(45:20):
don't currently have a partner,even if I live alone.
Those things are all true of me.
I'm single, even if I don'tcurrently have a partner, even
if I live alone right, thosethings are all true of me.
I'm not alone because I have anetwork of peers.
I have to activate that network.
I have to connect with thosepeople, but when I do, then I
have the ability to reminisceand recall shared experiences
(45:42):
and shared fears and sharedhopes.
And so, as you age, I hope youwill also find your peers.
That's my take on aging and kinkthat it comes with a set of
challenges in terms of dealingwith changes in your body, in
your sexual kink identity, inyour body, in your sexual kink
(46:07):
identity and in the scene.
But it comes with a set ofadvantages.
That may be about new pleasuresdiscovered in other parts of
the body, that might be aboutnew sexual kink identities.
That might simply be aboutconnecting with someone of a
different age so that y'all cancomplete each other's strengths
and weaknesses.
So I don't think aging isnecessarily something to fear.
It's certainly not something wecan stop.
(46:28):
So my best advice for you is tomeet the challenge of aging by
looking for what it gives you inthis moment and doing your best
to navigate what it takes fromyou moment to moment as well,
and certainly remembering thataging is an incredible privilege
(46:48):
.
I sincerely, sincerely wishthat you continue to age.
And finally, we have Ask Edge,the segment where I answer
questions from all of you.
If you would like to submit aquestion, you can email it to
ask at full cow dot show.
(47:10):
That's ask at full cow dot show.
Or, even better, you can leaveme a voicemail at speakpipecom
slash leather edge.
That's speakpipecom slashl-t-h-r-e-d-g-e, and both of
those links are available in theshow notes.
(47:30):
This time we have one questionfrom Charlie.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Edge.
This is Charlie Brainstorming.
This morning I think you shouldhave me on your show for
perhaps a 15-minute interview orlonger to talk about leather
avatars and the use of paradoxin the creation of modern
(48:00):
leather identities.
And who am I to talk about this?
Well, I'm somebody who thinksabout this.
What I mean by avatars arepeople like yourself, or Ralph
Bruno or Steve Perry, who havecurated an identity and
actualized it, selected variousstrands of life in which to
(48:25):
participate, which includeleather, and brought them
together and made this exquisitetapestry of them that exists in
their life.
Their life is a work of art.
So part of that is paradox,right, the bringing together of
two things which seemingly don'tmake sense together.
(48:49):
So psychotherapy and porn.
You know, there's the oldexample of Colton Haynes, who
had a porn career and then was ateenage heartthrob on Teen Wolf
.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Anyway, this is not a fully and unfortunately the
voicemail cuts off there.
However, I certainly get thepoint that you're making and
it's a curious idea.
You know, I've really pulledback from having guests on this
show, primarily because oflogistics.
I found it very challenging,given my life and its fullness,
(49:24):
to locate a guest, reach out tothem, find a date that's going
to work for them and me,coordinate all of that, get a
high quality recording, edit it,bring it back into Audacity to
produce the podcast, and so fora while now, if I can avoid
having a guest, I do, but Ithink it's really interesting to
(49:49):
.
I like the idea, right.
I like the idea of bringingother voices into the podcast.
That's part of what ask edge isabout and that's part of why
originally I had a segment thatwas an interview, so that you
could hear, literally hear, hear, yeah, yeah, that is literal
literally hear other voices.
So what I'm curious about isperhaps creating using something
(50:10):
like SpeakPipe, where peoplecan leave their own segments and
where I can assemble an episodewith people's stories about
kink and simply offer someframing or context.
So that might be something I dofor season four, assuming I do
(50:33):
a season four.
The podcast has been a lot ofwork lately and that has a lot
to do with what else is going onin my life and also what's not
going on in my life.
So the future of this podcastfor me is a little uncertain.
Certainly I will finish seasonthree and I would hope I move
into season four, but we'll seeIf I do.
I think one of the new featuresI'd like to consider is this
(50:55):
sort of people can leave a10-minute story, a 10-minute
episode on SpeakPipe.
I'll have to see the time limiton SpeakPipe, but leave it
somewhere, because that frees mefrom all the logistical work.
It allows them to plop in theirstory whenever they want and
redo it as many times as theylike until they get a version
(51:17):
they want me to use and then Ican very, very easily pop that
into an episode and add someframing, context or response.
So I'm unlikely to have you onthe podcast because I'm unlikely
to have anyone on the podcast,which isn't strictly true.
There are a couple of topicsI've kind of committed to in my
(51:38):
head that will require a guest,but generally speaking I'm
avoiding guests on the podcast.
Will require a guest, butgenerally speaking I'm avoiding
guests on the podcast.
But your suggestion is actuallyopening up ideas for me of how
this podcast may continue toevolve in the future, and so I'm
very grateful for that and forthe rest of you.
Please stay tuned.
In the meantime, I encourage youto submit questions to Ask Edge
(52:00):
so that I can have content forthis segment.
And again, you can ask meanything.
It doesn't have to be profound,it doesn't have to be deep.
You can try to get to knowabout me.
That's something that happens alot on my Ask Me Anythings on
Instagram, which can be a lot offun, and it's okay, right, like
, if I don't get questions, I'lljust have a shorter podcast or
I'll do another kind of segment.
(52:21):
But I really deeply love gettingquestions from people and I
want to thank all of you, likeCharlie, who've taken the time
to leave something at SpeakPipe,because that really allows me
some feedback that feels veryvisceral and immediate to me but
also, I think, really enhancesand enriches what I can offer in
this podcast.
(52:41):
So, thanks to all of you,consider leaving a question.
If you don't, it's okay.
I'm not going to be mad andthat's all we have for this
episode of Full Cow.
I want to thank everyone forjoining me.
I hope you've enjoyed theepisode as a whole and, as
always, always, always, I wishyou such a blessed leather
journey, such a blessed leatherjourney, and that's it for this
(53:06):
episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Please consider subscribing, oryou can send feedback to edge
at fullcowshow, as always.
May your leather journey beblessed.
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