December 5, 2025 • 46 mins
Ever wish someone handed you the map for approaching people in leather spaces without stepping on landmines? We unpack protocol as a living language—one that helps us communicate identity, negotiate consent, and feel like we belong—whether you’re navigating a bar, a dungeon, or a crowded inbox.
We start by reframing protocol from “rules for subs” to a shared system that binds everyone. Then we get practical: how to build pre-approach awareness, read the room, and use simple first contact—introductions and a handshake—to set a respectful tone. You’ll hear why theatrical submission backfires, how to extend honorifics “on credit” and assess whether they’re earned, and the safest way to approach collared folks, couples, or triads when you don’t know their internal dynamic.
We also translate those same principles into digital life. Thoughtful DMs beat “hey,” explicit photos without consent are out, and profile-reading is basic respect. On the community side, we cover play space etiquette—observing scenes, protecting space around implements, no unsolicited touch or photos—and why dungeon monitors are non-negotiable. We touch on event microcustoms, the tension between bar chatter and contest speeches, and how inclusivity and neurodiversity call for clearer signals and gentler corrections. Along the way, we share a story about the “never touch someone’s cover” custom and why small protocols can reveal who’s truly in community.
By the end, you’ll have concrete steps that turn awkwardness into invitation, and a template for creating your own personal protocol that signals values, boundaries, and openness. If this helped, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s finding their on-ramp, and leave a review to tell us the one protocol you think more people should learn.
Ask Edge! Go to https://www.speakpipe.com/LTHREDGE to leave ask a question or leave feedback. Find Edge's other content on Instagram and Twitter. Also visit his archive of educational videos, Tchick-Tchick.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Let's revisit protocol.
This podcast contains materialintended for a mature audience.
Before proceeding, please checkyour little laws and confirm
that you are an adult.
(00:37):
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcastabout Leather King and PDSM.
My name is Edge, my pronouns arehe him, and I'm your host.
And in this episode, we arereturning to the theme of season
four, which is all about goingback to prior episodes of this
podcast and revisiting topicsand perhaps looking at a little
(00:59):
different aspect of them.
And this time we're going tolook at protocol.
The original episode I wasreally happy with, and since
then I've actually taughtprotocol as a class at three
different events.
And in the course of doing that,I discovered there were some
aspects about protocol that Idid not discuss in the original
(01:20):
episode.
And those are the aspects we'regoing to look at today.
We're going to think about notso much the protocol that
happens between two individuals,but the protocol of approach.
How do you approach a dominantperson?
How do you approach a submissiveperson?
And the protocol of our sharedleather spaces.
So instead of looking at thesort of internal private
(01:43):
protocol, we are looking at morepublic manifestations of
protocol and how they helpregulate and guide us in
interacting with each other.
I think it's a great episode, solet's get started.
In the original episode onprotocol, part of what we talked
(02:05):
about is how protocol is notjust a set of rules for
submissive to follow.
Instead, it's a system ofcommunication, a way of
constantly expressing who we areto each other across places and
times.
As part of that, it is doublybinding.
It's not simply that thesubmissive person has to follow
(02:29):
these rules, these protocols.
As the dominant person, I amalso beholden to them.
I must also follow them and Imust uphold them and uphold the
submissive in living throughthem.
Protocol is something that isnegotiated.
It is not monolithic, it doesn'tpre-exist.
There's no grand singleprotocol.
(02:51):
Instead, it is worked outbetween two individuals, two or
more.
That makes it quite organic.
And it's also iterative.
It is something we return to, werenegotiate, we rethink, and we
revise.
And in the end, what you have isa system of living communicative
rules that shape who we are,reinforce who we are, and honor
(03:16):
who we are.
As I said, I've taught this as aclass a couple of times, and
I've come to realize that thereare other aspects to consider
when it comes to protocol,including the protocols of
approach and communityprotocols, and that's what we're
going to be focusing on today.
Now, if you think about aprivate protocol, it is an
(03:36):
intimate, negotiated ritual.
It's about how partnerscommunicate roles, relations,
identity, intimacy, connection,even love.
The more public protocol, theprotocol of approach, is really
more of an etiquette of firstcontact, our kind of social
handshake.
It's about how we approachdominance and submissives and
(03:59):
couples, thruples, et cetera,things like that.
There's also a communityprotocol, which is the
collective expectations thatkeep bars, dungeons, play
spaces, and events safe.
Across all of these, protocolremains doubly binding.
It's not simply a set of rulesissued by one group for another
(04:20):
group to follow.
Instead, those rules ask us eachto behave towards each other in
certain ways.
That means that protocol is alsoa system of meaning-making.
It's not a set of commandments.
And because it's aboutmeaning-making, it shifts as our
need to communicate meaning, asthe meaning itself shifts.
(04:42):
That's why it continues to growand evolve.
It is a living thing.
This, of course, is another wayof pushing back on the old guard
mythology.
We tend to hold in our notionthat old guard was all about
protocol and that there was aprotocol that was followed.
As you know from some of therecent episodes, even on the
(05:04):
Leatherman's Handbook, that isnot entirely true, that even if
we were to go back to old guarddays, and yes, they did have
protocols, we would finddiversity, locality,
improvisation, not a singleuniform code.
And so the protocols we'relooking at now, in their
variety, in their evolution, intheir revisionary nature,
(05:28):
continue to sort of push back onthe monolithic notion of an old
guard.
So while private protocols buildintimacy, approach protocols are
a way of building consent, andcommunity protocols are a way of
building belonging.
So let's think about theprotocol of approach.
(05:51):
Now, even before we talk aboutapproaching, let's just talk
about, right?
This is this is where it getsinteresting because part of this
is protocol, part of this ispoliteness, part of this is
common sense.
So we're going to be movingacross things that are protocol,
i.e., this is a rule or socialexpectation.
(06:12):
It is a way of standardizingcommunication between two
different parties.
That's protocol.
And then there's sort ofetiquette, politeness, simple
human sociality and interaction.
And those lines are going to bea little bit blurry, but we're
going to range across them.
So if you see someone thatyou're interested in, even
(06:32):
before you approach, you want tocultivate a kind of pre-approach
awareness.
And that starts with beingpresent.
Now, what I mean by that in partis don't be so intoxicated,
don't have a mind that is soaltered that you are no longer
really there.
It's important for you to bepresent as who you are in these
(06:56):
interactions.
And so, if you've had a lot todrink, if you've been doing
other substances, maybe that'snot the time to be approaching
people.
Being present is also aboutbeing present to the space,
really sensing who's there andhow they are interacting.
And that will help youunderstand how you're supposed
to interact within that space.
(07:18):
That means reading the roombefore you move.
And this, we're also kind ofmoving, we're crossing over into
cruising.
I think I have an episode onthat as well, right?
You read the room, and what youdo is you look at who's engaged
and who's available.
I do this still all the time.
If I see someone I'm interestedin, are they with someone?
(07:40):
And then if they're withsomeone, do I think they're just
with a friend?
And a lot of that has to do withhow they position themselves
towards each other, bodylanguage.
Um, and it also has to do withhow closely they are bound to
one another.
So, in my experience, if someoneshows up with their friend,
sooner or later each of them isgoing to want to go cruising and
(08:02):
will break apart.
And then you can see that, okay,well, maybe they're not a
couple.
Maybe they are, maybe they'renot.
But the fact that they'reseparating means that there's a
greater ability to approach.
So even before you approachanyone, you really want to sort
of know the space.
You want to be present in thespace and you want to be observ-
(08:22):
observing the people who are inthe space and how they interact
with each other.
Now, first contact is really assimple as any meeting anyone.
You introduce yourself and youoffer a handshake.
A handshake, not a grope, not atouching their leathers, not a
touching their bare chest.
Touch is earned.
(08:44):
Touch requires consent.
So you start off introducingyourself in a handshake.
And that that is sort of firstcontact etiquette, no matter who
you are, dominant, submissive,switch, whatever, and no matter
who you're approaching,dominant, submissive, switch,
whatever.
A lot of protocol is simplybeing basic humans used to
(09:06):
social interaction.
And so introduce yourself with ahandshake.
That's sort of the genericthing, but let's really focus on
approaching particular kinds ofpeople.
And I've had boys more than onceask me about the protocol of
approaching a dominant person.
Technically, it does not exist.
(09:28):
There is no single protocol foranything, and there is no single
standard protocol forapproaching a dominant person.
Now, curiously, there's a kindof historical practice that
probably is a residue of ourbelief of what the old guard
was.
And that historical practiceinvolves going up to a dominant
(09:50):
person and asking for permissionto approach.
Now, I've always found this justa little bit silly because
you've already approached.
If you're asking me, may Iapproach?
Well, you've already approached.
So I don't I don't want toendorse that as a great practice
(10:10):
because I find it a little umstrange, at least linguistically
strange.
I will say though, it also isvery sweet and old-fashioned.
And when I have someone come upand ask, may I approach her, it
tells me a lot about who theyare, about the kind of formality
(10:31):
they like to bring to leather,about the longings they have for
ritual and protocol.
So if you're that kind ofperson, if you're really into
crazy into protocol, then great.
Absolutely ask for permission toapproach.
In general, though, I don'tthink that it is practical
because you've alreadyapproached.
(10:51):
In general, obviously you wantto wait until there is a moment
where the dominant is notoccupied with a submissive with
a fellow person at the bar.
You want to wait for thatmoment, and ideally you want to
wait for acknowledgement.
Now, this gets back to cruising,and cruising has a lot to do
(11:12):
with eye contact.
And if someone's making eyecontact with you, then you have
some base permission toapproach.
And if they give you a nod, orif you both walk to another area
of the bar and make eye contactagain, that is very clear
permission to approach.
When you do that, you want toavoid theatrical submission.
(11:36):
You're not going to approachdominant and simply kneel before
them.
That is presumptuous and it is alittle bit um, it's a little bit
just theater, right?
It's a little bit just theater.
Now, it comes from a beautifulplace.
I'm a submissive person, I thinkyou're a dominant person.
I want to show my submission toyou, but it presumes a lot, like
(11:59):
it presumes that they're worthyour submission, it presumes
they're interested in yoursubmission, and so I don't
really want to suggest that.
Instead, wait for a moment, waitfor acknowledgement, approach,
introduce yourself with ahandshake.
As you're interacting with adominant person for the first
time, you're gonna want toconsider what you are willing to
(12:22):
extend on credit.
Because someone has to take theleap.
Either as a submissive person,you're gonna have to start
calling that dominant.
You're interested in sir ordaddy.
Don't use master, that's superpresumptuous, right?
If you're gonna call him sir,that's a beautiful umbrella
term.
That's a little leap of faith.
(12:43):
That is something you'reextending on credit.
You are assuming this personactually lives up to your notion
of what a sir should embody.
And it's okay to sort of extendthat on credit.
I actually always wait for asubmissive to give me an
honorific before I call them boyor pup or son or anything,
(13:06):
because I don't presume that Idon't presume their submission
belongs to me in any way, right?
And if I'm calling them boy,then I'm already sort of laying
a kind of claim to theiridentity that I don't really
have.
But the moment in conversationsomeone calls me sir, then I
feel entirely authorized to callthem boy.
(13:28):
So there's a little bit of who'sgonna take that first leap?
I really feel like when you'reapproaching, it is up for the
submissive to take the firstleap and call someone sir if
they feel comfortable with that.
Because I'm not gonna imposeyour submission.
I'm not gonna call you boy.
I find that presumptuous fromme.
(13:49):
But whoever calls whoever whatfirst, it is still extended on
credit.
It's still on the assumptionthat that person is going to
live up to your expectations ofwhat that is.
And so once you call someone sirfor the first time, or if you
call someone boy for the firsttime, then you're gonna want to
watch and listen.
(14:10):
You're gonna pay very closeattention to how they behave,
how they stand, how they treatyou, what they say, how they say
it, because you need todetermine whether or not what
you have extended on credit istheirs to keep.
Are you going to keep callingthis person sir because they act
like a sir?
(14:30):
Are you gonna keep calling thisperson boy because they act like
a boy?
So someone makes the leap andextends an honorific on credit,
and then you watch and listen.
In terms of approaching asubmissive, a lot of it is still
kind of the same.
Now, I will say I rarelyapproach submissives.
(14:55):
I kind of wait to be approached.
Now, part of this is I'm anintrovert and I hate people.
So I'm more than content to juststand at the bar by myself, kind
of on the edge, watching thecrowd.
And so I'm usually not motivatedto go off and meet people
because I don't like people.
(15:15):
It's part of who I am as anintrovert.
Um, and that's part, that's alarge part of I think why I wait
for people to approach me.
Um, I'm trying to remember ifI've ever made the first
approach on a boy.
Well, you know what?
I've made a first approach onsome men who then turned out to
be boys.
So yes, I have done that onoccasion.
(15:37):
And again, the approach is thesame.
Like, if you're approaching asubmissive, you must first treat
them not as a submissive, but asa human being, that they are
autonomous, that theirsubmission belongs to themselves
or to someone else, but it doesnot automatically belong to you.
(16:02):
And I think I've heard a lot ofstories from various submissive
peoples about being in publicspaces like a bar, and some
dominant assuming that justbecause they are a submissive,
that that dominant can orderthem around.
No, obviously not.
If you're approaching asubmissive, treat them like a
(16:23):
human being, treat them asautonomous, treat their
submission as not yours yet, asin fact something to be earned.
And that means go up, introduceyourself, handshake.
Same thing, right?
Treat them like a human being.
And you also want to make surethat you don't really move into
a command mode unless there'svery clear consent given.
(16:48):
And this is important for acouple reasons.
For first of all, it's aboutrespecting them as human beings
who require consent.
It's about respecting theirsubmission and the preciousness
of it.
And those are very importantthings when we're in these sorts
of spaces.
(17:10):
So obviously, the other bigthing about approaching
submissives, and this is a thisis a complicated rule because
historically, the way I wasbrought up, if someone's in a
collar, then they are taken, andyou need to probably not
approach them.
Uh, if we're talking about highformal protocol, I would never
(17:31):
simply approach someone in acollar because I don't know that
I have permission to speak tothem.
Now, if they were there withtheir dominant, I might orient
myself to the dominant first andthen be able to talk to the
submissive.
But historically, if someone'sin a collar, that means they are
taken, they are claimed, andthey are not to be approached.
This has shifted radically,which is beautiful because kink
(17:54):
leather, this is a living thingthat grows and evolves.
And because a lot of timespeople just wear collars because
they like collars, or they wearcollars to keep creepy people
from hitting on them, or theywear collars because they and
their boyfriend collared eachother, and they're not even
really dominant or submissive,but they both like collars,
(18:16):
right?
I can no longer assume thatsomeone in a collar has been
collared by a dominant person.
I still behave the same.
I still, the safest thing for meis to assume, is to assume that
you are owned, you are taken,and therefore I should not be
approaching you.
Um there is like, I mean, we'reall still human beings, right?
(18:40):
So I can, it's not like I'm I'mnot allowed to talk to you, but
I certainly would not take youas an object to be pursued.
So if you're approaching adominant, wait for
acknowledgement, introduceyourself, extend sir on credit,
and then see if they're worthkeeping that credit.
(19:01):
If you're approaching asubmissive, definitely treat
them like a human being.
Definitely don't assume theirsubmission belongs to you.
Definitely wait until you havesome sort of consent from them
before you start giving themorders or acting in a more
dominant manner.
And if they're collared, proceedwith extreme caution because you
(19:22):
don't know what that collarmeans.
However, the safest approach isto assume that it means they are
taken completely.
Now, sometimes you'll want toapproach a couple or a triad or
a little cluster of very hot menin gear, right?
And with polyamory, it's reallyhard to tell.
Is this group of friends?
Is this, you know, what is this?
(19:44):
We don't know.
So the nice thing is, onceagain, because we're humans, you
can still go up and introduceyourself and give a handshake.
Even in these spaces, eventhough we're leather people in
these spaces, we're also people.
And so regular politeness goes along way.
Wait for an opening, don'tinterrupt conversation, wait for
an opening, introduce yourself,handshake.
(20:06):
If you're approaching a coupleor a triad or a cluster of hot
people in leather, you want topay attention again to the body
geometry.
Are they in a very closedposture, which would indicate
that they want to be bythemselves, that they are in
their own little cluster and arenot open to other people coming
in.
Is one of them standing behindthe other, which indicates a
(20:29):
very clear, submissive posture,and therefore you should not be
talking to that person, but tothe dominant.
The trouble with approachingcouples is that you don't know
their protocol.
You don't know how theycommunicate to each other, you
don't even really know who theyare to each other.
Because protocol tends to beinternal, private to a specific
(20:51):
relationship, you can't knowwhat protocol they follow.
But just as I find the safestrule of thumb is if I see
someone colored, don't approach.
I also feel the safest rule ofthumb when I'm meeting a couple
where one's clearly dominant andone's clearly submissive is to
orient to the dominant person.
(21:12):
Acknowledge everyone, but I willdo most of my speaking to the
dominant until it's clear thatthe protocol of their
relationship allows me to talkto all of them.
And again, it's not like theseare hard, fast rules.
And it's not like, I mean,things shift so much and evolve
in our community in beautifulways that these rules often
(21:35):
change quickly, I will say.
I always go for the safestthing.
The safest thing is alwayscollar means you're take it.
Safest thing is couple means I'mgonna talk to the dominant.
It's a way of making sure thatI'm least likely to offend.
Because people are still people,it is also perfectly correct to
(21:58):
ask respectfully, you know, canI speak to your boy?
Can you tell me about yourdynamic?
I want to make sure I respectyour dynamic.
You can ask them about itwithout them, without having to
pry.
It's true that just respect andpoliteness goes really, really,
really, really far.
Now, one of the ways ourcommunity has evolved, of
(22:19):
course, is that it has movedinto digital spaces.
And so the digital approachprotocol is not entirely
different from the protocol ofapproach in person.
And it tends to really mirror itquite a bit.
So, first message should beengaging, introductory, without
being demanding, withoutassuming their dominance or
(22:43):
their submission belongs to you.
And this can get reallycomplicated because in social
media there's a very curated,crafted image.
And because we are oftenconsuming social media in states
of arousal, I'll just say that,because we consume so much
social media in states ofarousal that we then assume that
(23:07):
that image of that person andthe person behind that image is
already in the fantasy that wehave in our minds, which is not
true.
They're actually probably justbuying groceries or doing dishes
or walking their dog, right?
So the first approach in a DMneeds to be respectful and
introductory.
I will say for me, one word DMsdo not get answers.
(23:32):
If it's just hello, hey, woof,wow, howdy.
I just this is again because myintro, you know, introverts hate
small talk.
And if you start with that, thenyou're really starting with
small talk.
Hello, and then I say, hello,and then they say, How are you
doing?
(23:52):
And I say, I'm fine, how areyou?
And then they say, I'm doinggreat.
I don't need all that.
So if you want to approach me, Iprefer messages that have
something to say.
They have a question they wantto ask me, or they say real
statement that gives mesomething to engage with.
Again, that isn't presuming thatI am their dominant, but is
(24:13):
still a way of engaging me as aperson, which will then lead to
other possibilities.
Definitely, definitely do not,do not begin with explicit
photos or video calls fromnowhere.
I've had many people just sendme pictures of various body
(24:34):
parts, which is presumptuous,which is a little rude, and uh
which really shows they don'tknow me at all.
Like the last thing I'minterested in is random pictures
of body parts.
So don't ever do that.
It's it I mean, in it becauseagain, we're mirroring online
(24:55):
spaces, and it would be likeshowing up at a bar and dropping
your pants and uh doing somesort of display.
No, granted, in some bars thatis perfectly appropriate.
But in digital spaces, let's notstart with the explicit photos.
The other thing about digitalspaces is really respect
response time.
(25:16):
Not everyone's on social mediaall the time.
I go through large periods whereI'm I'm not paying attention to
my social media at all.
And so don't assume they'regoing to get back to you right
away.
And then if they don't get backto you, don't just keep sending
more messages.
Either wait even longer for aresponse or accept that they are
(25:38):
not willing to respond to you.
No communication iscommunication, and you should
respect that.
Obviously, in terms of respectas well, you don't want to be
forwarding someone's DMs withoutconsent, that discretion is part
of our digital protocol.
A lot of times the lives peopleare living on social media are
(26:00):
in tension with their careers orwith their personal lives.
And so we want to be mindful ofthat and respectful of that,
that a conversation happening ina DM is between you two, or
however many are in the DM,right?
It is not to be shared widely.
Finally, I will also say likeit's useful to actually read
(26:21):
people's profiles before yousend them a message.
It is a real way of showingrespect and a real way of
showing an interest in engaging.
So for example, I have I getmessages all the time.
Where are you?
I'm in Fort Lauderdale.
It's in my profile.
It's in every single profile Ihave on every single platform.
(26:44):
And it just sort of tells methat, you know, for me, I feel
like people get all caught up inthe images and they don't even
think about the fact there's ahuman being behind them.
And so, and so they send theinappropriate DM.
And so they send a photo oftheir butthole, and so they send
a message that assumes somehowI'm already there, sir, because
(27:07):
they haven't even bothered toconsider the fact that I'm
actually human and not justimage.
And one way to do that is toread whatever text is in the
profile.
Have it in your head, be mindfulof it, and be mindful of
approaching a human being, whichI guess is sort of right.
This is this is the theme whenit comes to the protocol of
(27:29):
approach.
You are approaching a humanbeing.
You are not approaching a sir,you're not approaching a master,
you're not approaching a boy,you're not approaching a slave,
you're not approaching a pup,you're not approaching a kitten,
you're not approaching any ofthose things.
You are approaching a humanbeing.
Act like a human being.
Be polite and be respectful.
And then if things align and ifsignals are given and received,
(27:53):
then you can transition intoroles of dominance and
submission.
And let me say, you know, I Isaid earlier, like, I, and this
is especially true in in uhdigital communication, I don't
call anyone boy until they callme sir.
And even then, several timesI've asked people, is that a
(28:16):
sir, sir, or a southern polite,sir?
And more than once they've said,oh, that's a southern polite,
sir.
Right?
So there if there are people whoare raised a certain way, that
you just call people sir.
That is simply being polite.
And it doesn't mean I want youto be my sir.
So there are situations where Iwill absolutely even clarify
(28:36):
whether or not they are actuallycalling me sir before I start
treating them like a boy.
Obviously, because protocol isunwritten, because it is
shifting and growing andevolving, there are times we're
gonna fuck it up.
That's just gonna happen.
And um, and that's okay.
(28:57):
Repair and recovery is a part ofmoving into social spaces and
moving through the community.
So if someone corrects you aboutsomething because you called
them boy, but they only identifyas pup, don't fight them on
that.
Thank them, make a note of thecorrection, and move on.
If you really fuck something up,if you've done a misstep,
(29:19):
apologize once and move on.
And no is neutral information.
No is not rejection.
If someone tells you no, it hasnothing to do about you.
Probably has more to do withwhat's going on in their lives.
So do not take it as rejection,but do take it as a sign that it
might be time to move on.
(29:40):
You might also find that thereare microcustoms within a given
space, within a given bar of whohangs out in the bathroom and
who hangs out at the pool table,or don't hang out at the pool
table because we're playingpool.
There might be other protocolsthat you will come to learn as
you spend time in a space.
Across all of these things, Partof what you'll find is that
(30:02):
protocol turns awkwardness intoinvitation.
Approaching anyone is scarybecause none of us want to get
rejected.
Not a single one of us want tofeel rejection.
It is not not a good feeling.
But if we think about protocols,protocols are really a way of
(30:23):
keeping ourselves safe.
And that's true within arelationship, and it's true with
the protocols of approach.
It is a way of keeping us safe.
And that's why eye contact,which is a sign of
acknowledgement, okay, that's asign I can approach.
That's why I'm going to startoff treating you like a human,
because if you're not interestedin me, then I'm not going to
reach that point of rejection.
I'm just going to be human tohuman and then we end it.
(30:46):
So what could be awkward becomesa little less awkward through
protocol.
And getting things right isn'treally about um knowing all the
rules.
It's about being aware of peopleand the context.
(31:10):
So that's how do you approachpeople, both dominants,
submissives, people who youdon't even know if they're
dominant or submissive, peoplein couples.
Approach them like a humanbeing.
But let's think more about theprotocol of leather spaces.
This sort of community protocolis a little bit like our culture
(31:31):
in motion.
So the private protocol is a wayof expressing who we are to each
other.
You're sir, I'm boy, whatever,whatever.
The protocol of approach is away of navigating the
awkwardness of a first socialinteraction.
And the community protocols area way of expressing to each
other we belong to the samecommunity.
(31:56):
In general, you want to observefirst and act later.
So if you're in a play space,watch.
Do not approach anyone, watch.
Later, after the play is done,after the aftercare is done,
after the next day, if you're atan event, right, then you make
(32:19):
the approach.
Scenes are sacred.
You never, ever, ever, ever walkinto someone's scene, get in the
way of someone's scene, assumeyou can touch the submissive in
someone's scene.
Never, ever, ever.
A lot of this has to do withbeing mindful of space.
(32:45):
And that's especially true inplay spaces, because it is very
easy to walk right in the way ofsomeone's flogging, right into
the way of someone's whipping.
Those sorts of scenes require alot of space, and that space is
a little dynamic.
Like you don't know how muchspace they're taking up,
depending on what point of thescene you come into and where
the whip or flogger is at thatpoint in time.
(33:07):
So being mindful of space meansreally keeping track of who's
doing what to whom and makingsure you don't cross any lines,
literally, the line of theflogger, the line of the whip,
the line of the paddle.
But being mindful of space isalso being mindful of people's
personal space and reallyknowing when it's okay to
(33:28):
approach and when it's not.
And people will signal when it'sokay to approach.
And there are lots of places, ifwe're thinking about an event,
generally speaking, there's amain gathering area, there's a
lobby, there's a party, there'sa bar.
And those are generally neutralspaces where it's pretty okay to
approach.
Obviously, in all of thesespaces, no unsolicited touch, no
(33:51):
photography without permission,and in play spaces or dungeons,
no noise that's going to reallydisrupt.
And this is complicateddepending on who you're playing
with and how they process pain,for example, they may be making
a lot of noise.
Trust that there will be somesort of dungeon monitor who can
help you figure out what levelsare appropriate for that space.
(34:16):
Sometimes really, really loudscreaming is fine, sometimes
it's not.
But you may not know the answer.
Dungeon monitors do.
And you want to pay.
Dungeon monitor is someone youalways obey.
And it's someone you always obeybecause they have they have all
the power.
And their responsibility is notsimply to keep you safe, but to
keep the space safe.
(34:37):
And that means that everyone canenjoy it.
And that's why we absolutely doanything, a dungeon monitor
says.
Um, you know, I will also takespecial note of some of the
protocol at contests, becauseI've more than once been at
contests where the MC has had toshush the crowd because they're
(35:03):
talking so loud that we can'thear contestants give their
speech.
And this is really, this isinterestingly, this is an effect
of intersecting protocols.
So there's a protocol of aleather contest where it's a
show, so you're not talking, youclap when you're supposed to
clap, you shout for a contestantwhen you want to shout, you
(35:25):
laugh when something's funny,but you you know, but you but
you're there paying attention tothe stage.
unknown (35:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
So contests, there's a contest thing, and we know how
to behave at a contest.
But a lot of times thesecontests are at bars, and bars
are exactly the place where youtalk and you be social and you
drink and you get louder becauseyou've been drinking.
And so when you have a contestin a bar, it becomes really
complicated because the protocolof the bar, sociality, and the
protocol of the contest, be alittle quiet, conflict.
(35:58):
I will ask, if you are at acontest and it's coming to the
portion, any speaking portionwith the contestants, if you are
not in a place where you want topay close attention to that,
step as far away as possible,perhaps even outside the bar, to
have conversation or keepconversation as quiet as
(36:20):
possible.
Bars will have their ownprotocol, events will have their
own protocol, contests will havetheir own protocol.
A lot of times the way we learnthese is by being observational
within a space and seeing howother people are interacting.
It's a way of teaching us thebest way to approach.
(36:42):
Now, at events, in particular,the uh the protocol of approach
that we talked about at a barapplies at events as well.
So orient yourself to thedominant, don't assume that the
simissive is yours to be orderedaround, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera.
All of these things continuallyevolve and evolve not simply to
(37:05):
shifting circumstances, but toshifting needs so that we might
find more protocol, ourprotocols might become more
inclusive because as acommunity, we're trying to
become more inclusive.
I think there's also needs to bea kind of understanding of the
range of neurodiversity in ourcommunities, because some
neurodivergent people maystruggle with public protocols
(37:31):
because a lot of times they relyon picking up subtle social
cues.
And depending on your flavor ofneurospiciness, you simply may
not have the ability to pick upon those cues, and that can lead
to a lot of missteps.
I think it's important for usmore than ever to be
understanding and forgiving ofpeople who have different brain
(37:53):
structures and to make space forthem.
So I've certainly met somepeople who are very
neurodivergent, and I the bigthing is I don't get offended.
I don't get offended.
In general, I don't getoffended.
But I think it's important forus to continue to evolve the
protocol as our community tendsto evolve and as who's in it
(38:14):
tends to evolve.
Throughout all of this, youknow, if we go back to the sort
of private protocol betweenindividuals, that is something
you build yourself, and thatreally creates your own dialect
of respect.
It really, your personalprotocol is how you communicate
who you are to the world aroundyou.
(38:35):
So, for example, I know somesubmissive people who live by
their own protocol and they opendoors for people and they call
everyone sir or ma'am, or theyact fully submissive in a way
that is socially acceptable, andthey do that all the time.
(38:56):
And that becomes this sort ofprotocol they've created that
works in one-on-onerelationships, that works in
approach spaces, that works incommunity spaces.
So you want to be thinking aboutyour own protocol and how you
want to live it.
And part of that is going to bethinking about what makes you
feel safe, valued, connected,what you want to communicate
(39:19):
about yourself.
Is it your dominance?
Is it your versatility?
Is it your openness toconversation?
Is it the fact you're anintrovert and you hate people?
Think about that.
And like any protocol, you'regoing to want to review your own
personal protocol as it evolves,as you refine it.
At the end of the day, protocolremains fundamentally about
(39:43):
communication.
And it is a communication thattakes place beyond the verbal,
that takes place in theorientation of bodies within a
space, that takes place inmotion, how people move through
a space or move towards or awayfrom a person.
And it binds everyone.
If we're all, if we have somebasic, and protocol varies a
(40:07):
lot.
Varies a lot by event, by bar,by location, by region, by
country, right?
But to the extent that we havesome common protocol of respect
in the community, things like, Ithink it's pretty universally
true, don't walk into the middleof anyone's scene, right?
Because we have some commonelements of protocol, it creates
(40:28):
a shared meaning.
And that's part of what bindscommunity into community.
So as you think about your ownprotocol, I hope you will think
about what values you thinkabout who you are, think about
what's important to you, andthink about how you want to move
(40:50):
through the world in a way thatexpresses that all the time,
that expresses that to otherpeople, to people in the
community, to people outside thecommunity.
I hopefully provided an entryramp into various kinds of
protocol.
(41:12):
And go back and listen to if youwant to hear about protocol
between two people, then go backand listen to the original
episode.
But this time we've beenthinking more about basic
protocols of approach and basicprotocols of communal spaces.
And hopefully it gives you aplace in.
Because I think the one downsideabout protocol is if you don't
(41:36):
know it, you feel lost and youfeel like an outsider.
Um so hopefully I've at leastgiven you ways to move into the
community.
I'm also thinking, oh, you know,the other, here's a random piece
of protocol.
(41:57):
And this is I don't even, Idon't even know if I want to
call this protocol, but and thisis, you know, it's so funny
because I just carry aroundthings that have been inherited,
and I'm pretty sure some of themgo all the way back to old
guard.
Not that I consider myself oldguard, but obviously certain
practices, certain teachingsjust kind of stuck across
(42:19):
generations.
And one of the ones that hasstuck for me has been you,
generally speaking, don't toucha person's leather.
But most importantly, you never,ever touch someone's cover.
I don't even know who taught methat.
Um, but I recall veryspecifically, I was in another
(42:40):
city uh at their local leatherbar.
It had a, you know, it's a citywith a beautiful city with a
decent leather community.
I was at the leather bar sittingaround a table with uh my boy
and some other leather people,and this very hot guy came up
and was talking to us, and I hadmy cover on the table, and he
picked it up and put it on hishead.
(43:01):
And sorry, sorry, that was areally loud laugh, sorry.
Everyone around the table, weall like jaw-dropped our eyes,
giant eyes, like, oh my god,what did he just do?
And and this person wasoblivious because even though he
was in that community space, itwas clear that he hadn't found
(43:23):
his entry ramp into thecommunity.
And I didn't say anything, I wasnot offended.
I was I was flabbergasted, I wasshocked.
Everyone at the table registeredsome degree of shock that anyone
would ever do that, which isinteresting because that really
reveals how deep that protocolis settled into the community,
(43:43):
even though I don't know thatit's explicitly taught anywhere.
We were all shocked.
I wasn't pissed, but but uh butI did instantly know, okay, this
is a person who is not in thecommunity in a way that I'm in a
community, not in this communitythe way that I'm in this
community.
But it also could have just aseasily been this is a person who
(44:04):
did not have on-ramps intoprotocol and and therefore is in
the space, but not in thecommunity.
And I guess I kind of wonderedwhether or not he would have
wanted on-ramps, protocol onramps.
And in case there are otherpeople like that, I'm hoping
this episode gives you a placeto start, because there's
(44:28):
nothing worse than being at anevent, being at a bar, being in
a play space, you're wearing allthe right things, but it's as
though nobody sees you.
That is very painful, I know.
And the remedy to that is tobegin to understand these
(44:51):
unwritten communicative codes ofthe community so that as you
enact protocol, the way youcarry yourself, the way you
place your body in relation toother bodies, the way you talk
to other people, the way youinteract with other people, the
moment you can start evennavigating some protocol, that
(45:12):
helps people see you.
And being seen is what meansyou're there.
You're in, you're part of thatcommunity.
And that can be deeply, deeply,deeply fulfilling.
So between the last episode andthis one, I'm hoping that
everyone has a chance to findtheir own on-ramp into protocol,
(45:33):
even as then, once they're inthe community, once they know
some common protocols, theybegin to shape their own.
And I hope that helps some ofyou.
And that's it for this episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Please consider subscribing, oryou can send feedback to edge at
(45:54):
fullcal.show.
As always, may your leatherjourney be blessed.
Let's revisit protocol.
This podcast contains materialintended for a mature audience.
Before proceeding, please checkyour little laws and confirm
that you are an adult.
(00:37):
Welcome to Full Cow, a podcastabout Leather King and PDSM.
My name is Edge, my pronouns arehe him, and I'm your host.
And in this episode, we arereturning to the theme of season
four, which is all about goingback to prior episodes of this
podcast and revisiting topicsand perhaps looking at a little
(00:59):
different aspect of them.
And this time we're going tolook at protocol.
The original episode I wasreally happy with, and since
then I've actually taughtprotocol as a class at three
different events.
And in the course of doing that,I discovered there were some
aspects about protocol that Idid not discuss in the original
(01:20):
episode.
And those are the aspects we'regoing to look at today.
We're going to think about notso much the protocol that
happens between two individuals,but the protocol of approach.
How do you approach a dominantperson?
How do you approach a submissiveperson?
And the protocol of our sharedleather spaces.
So instead of looking at thesort of internal private
(01:43):
protocol, we are looking at morepublic manifestations of
protocol and how they helpregulate and guide us in
interacting with each other.
I think it's a great episode, solet's get started.
In the original episode onprotocol, part of what we talked
(02:05):
about is how protocol is notjust a set of rules for
submissive to follow.
Instead, it's a system ofcommunication, a way of
constantly expressing who we areto each other across places and
times.
As part of that, it is doublybinding.
It's not simply that thesubmissive person has to follow
(02:29):
these rules, these protocols.
As the dominant person, I amalso beholden to them.
I must also follow them and Imust uphold them and uphold the
submissive in living throughthem.
Protocol is something that isnegotiated.
It is not monolithic, it doesn'tpre-exist.
There's no grand singleprotocol.
(02:51):
Instead, it is worked outbetween two individuals, two or
more.
That makes it quite organic.
And it's also iterative.
It is something we return to, werenegotiate, we rethink, and we
revise.
And in the end, what you have isa system of living communicative
rules that shape who we are,reinforce who we are, and honor
(03:16):
who we are.
As I said, I've taught this as aclass a couple of times, and
I've come to realize that thereare other aspects to consider
when it comes to protocol,including the protocols of
approach and communityprotocols, and that's what we're
going to be focusing on today.
Now, if you think about aprivate protocol, it is an
(03:36):
intimate, negotiated ritual.
It's about how partnerscommunicate roles, relations,
identity, intimacy, connection,even love.
The more public protocol, theprotocol of approach, is really
more of an etiquette of firstcontact, our kind of social
handshake.
It's about how we approachdominance and submissives and
(03:59):
couples, thruples, et cetera,things like that.
There's also a communityprotocol, which is the
collective expectations thatkeep bars, dungeons, play
spaces, and events safe.
Across all of these, protocolremains doubly binding.
It's not simply a set of rulesissued by one group for another
(04:20):
group to follow.
Instead, those rules ask us eachto behave towards each other in
certain ways.
That means that protocol is alsoa system of meaning-making.
It's not a set of commandments.
And because it's aboutmeaning-making, it shifts as our
need to communicate meaning, asthe meaning itself shifts.
(04:42):
That's why it continues to growand evolve.
It is a living thing.
This, of course, is another wayof pushing back on the old guard
mythology.
We tend to hold in our notionthat old guard was all about
protocol and that there was aprotocol that was followed.
As you know from some of therecent episodes, even on the
(05:04):
Leatherman's Handbook, that isnot entirely true, that even if
we were to go back to old guarddays, and yes, they did have
protocols, we would finddiversity, locality,
improvisation, not a singleuniform code.
And so the protocols we'relooking at now, in their
variety, in their evolution, intheir revisionary nature,
(05:28):
continue to sort of push back onthe monolithic notion of an old
guard.
So while private protocols buildintimacy, approach protocols are
a way of building consent, andcommunity protocols are a way of
building belonging.
So let's think about theprotocol of approach.
(05:51):
Now, even before we talk aboutapproaching, let's just talk
about, right?
This is this is where it getsinteresting because part of this
is protocol, part of this ispoliteness, part of this is
common sense.
So we're going to be movingacross things that are protocol,
i.e., this is a rule or socialexpectation.
(06:12):
It is a way of standardizingcommunication between two
different parties.
That's protocol.
And then there's sort ofetiquette, politeness, simple
human sociality and interaction.
And those lines are going to bea little bit blurry, but we're
going to range across them.
So if you see someone thatyou're interested in, even
(06:32):
before you approach, you want tocultivate a kind of pre-approach
awareness.
And that starts with beingpresent.
Now, what I mean by that in partis don't be so intoxicated,
don't have a mind that is soaltered that you are no longer
really there.
It's important for you to bepresent as who you are in these
(06:56):
interactions.
And so, if you've had a lot todrink, if you've been doing
other substances, maybe that'snot the time to be approaching
people.
Being present is also aboutbeing present to the space,
really sensing who's there andhow they are interacting.
And that will help youunderstand how you're supposed
to interact within that space.
(07:18):
That means reading the roombefore you move.
And this, we're also kind ofmoving, we're crossing over into
cruising.
I think I have an episode onthat as well, right?
You read the room, and what youdo is you look at who's engaged
and who's available.
I do this still all the time.
If I see someone I'm interestedin, are they with someone?
(07:40):
And then if they're withsomeone, do I think they're just
with a friend?
And a lot of that has to do withhow they position themselves
towards each other, bodylanguage.
Um, and it also has to do withhow closely they are bound to
one another.
So, in my experience, if someoneshows up with their friend,
sooner or later each of them isgoing to want to go cruising and
(08:02):
will break apart.
And then you can see that, okay,well, maybe they're not a
couple.
Maybe they are, maybe they'renot.
But the fact that they'reseparating means that there's a
greater ability to approach.
So even before you approachanyone, you really want to sort
of know the space.
You want to be present in thespace and you want to be observ-
(08:22):
observing the people who are inthe space and how they interact
with each other.
Now, first contact is really assimple as any meeting anyone.
You introduce yourself and youoffer a handshake.
A handshake, not a grope, not atouching their leathers, not a
touching their bare chest.
Touch is earned.
(08:44):
Touch requires consent.
So you start off introducingyourself in a handshake.
And that that is sort of firstcontact etiquette, no matter who
you are, dominant, submissive,switch, whatever, and no matter
who you're approaching,dominant, submissive, switch,
whatever.
A lot of protocol is simplybeing basic humans used to
(09:06):
social interaction.
And so introduce yourself with ahandshake.
That's sort of the genericthing, but let's really focus on
approaching particular kinds ofpeople.
And I've had boys more than onceask me about the protocol of
approaching a dominant person.
Technically, it does not exist.
(09:28):
There is no single protocol foranything, and there is no single
standard protocol forapproaching a dominant person.
Now, curiously, there's a kindof historical practice that
probably is a residue of ourbelief of what the old guard
was.
And that historical practiceinvolves going up to a dominant
(09:50):
person and asking for permissionto approach.
Now, I've always found this justa little bit silly because
you've already approached.
If you're asking me, may Iapproach?
Well, you've already approached.
So I don't I don't want toendorse that as a great practice
(10:10):
because I find it a little umstrange, at least linguistically
strange.
I will say though, it also isvery sweet and old-fashioned.
And when I have someone come upand ask, may I approach her, it
tells me a lot about who theyare, about the kind of formality
(10:31):
they like to bring to leather,about the longings they have for
ritual and protocol.
So if you're that kind ofperson, if you're really into
crazy into protocol, then great.
Absolutely ask for permission toapproach.
In general, though, I don'tthink that it is practical
because you've alreadyapproached.
(10:51):
In general, obviously you wantto wait until there is a moment
where the dominant is notoccupied with a submissive with
a fellow person at the bar.
You want to wait for thatmoment, and ideally you want to
wait for acknowledgement.
Now, this gets back to cruising,and cruising has a lot to do
(11:12):
with eye contact.
And if someone's making eyecontact with you, then you have
some base permission toapproach.
And if they give you a nod, orif you both walk to another area
of the bar and make eye contactagain, that is very clear
permission to approach.
When you do that, you want toavoid theatrical submission.
(11:36):
You're not going to approachdominant and simply kneel before
them.
That is presumptuous and it is alittle bit um, it's a little bit
just theater, right?
It's a little bit just theater.
Now, it comes from a beautifulplace.
I'm a submissive person, I thinkyou're a dominant person.
I want to show my submission toyou, but it presumes a lot, like
(11:59):
it presumes that they're worthyour submission, it presumes
they're interested in yoursubmission, and so I don't
really want to suggest that.
Instead, wait for a moment, waitfor acknowledgement, approach,
introduce yourself with ahandshake.
As you're interacting with adominant person for the first
time, you're gonna want toconsider what you are willing to
(12:22):
extend on credit.
Because someone has to take theleap.
Either as a submissive person,you're gonna have to start
calling that dominant.
You're interested in sir ordaddy.
Don't use master, that's superpresumptuous, right?
If you're gonna call him sir,that's a beautiful umbrella
term.
That's a little leap of faith.
(12:43):
That is something you'reextending on credit.
You are assuming this personactually lives up to your notion
of what a sir should embody.
And it's okay to sort of extendthat on credit.
I actually always wait for asubmissive to give me an
honorific before I call them boyor pup or son or anything,
(13:06):
because I don't presume that Idon't presume their submission
belongs to me in any way, right?
And if I'm calling them boy,then I'm already sort of laying
a kind of claim to theiridentity that I don't really
have.
But the moment in conversationsomeone calls me sir, then I
feel entirely authorized to callthem boy.
(13:28):
So there's a little bit of who'sgonna take that first leap?
I really feel like when you'reapproaching, it is up for the
submissive to take the firstleap and call someone sir if
they feel comfortable with that.
Because I'm not gonna imposeyour submission.
I'm not gonna call you boy.
I find that presumptuous fromme.
(13:49):
But whoever calls whoever whatfirst, it is still extended on
credit.
It's still on the assumptionthat that person is going to
live up to your expectations ofwhat that is.
And so once you call someone sirfor the first time, or if you
call someone boy for the firsttime, then you're gonna want to
watch and listen.
(14:10):
You're gonna pay very closeattention to how they behave,
how they stand, how they treatyou, what they say, how they say
it, because you need todetermine whether or not what
you have extended on credit istheirs to keep.
Are you going to keep callingthis person sir because they act
like a sir?
(14:30):
Are you gonna keep calling thisperson boy because they act like
a boy?
So someone makes the leap andextends an honorific on credit,
and then you watch and listen.
In terms of approaching asubmissive, a lot of it is still
kind of the same.
Now, I will say I rarelyapproach submissives.
(14:55):
I kind of wait to be approached.
Now, part of this is I'm anintrovert and I hate people.
So I'm more than content to juststand at the bar by myself, kind
of on the edge, watching thecrowd.
And so I'm usually not motivatedto go off and meet people
because I don't like people.
(15:15):
It's part of who I am as anintrovert.
Um, and that's part, that's alarge part of I think why I wait
for people to approach me.
Um, I'm trying to remember ifI've ever made the first
approach on a boy.
Well, you know what?
I've made a first approach onsome men who then turned out to
be boys.
So yes, I have done that onoccasion.
(15:37):
And again, the approach is thesame.
Like, if you're approaching asubmissive, you must first treat
them not as a submissive, but asa human being, that they are
autonomous, that theirsubmission belongs to themselves
or to someone else, but it doesnot automatically belong to you.
(16:02):
And I think I've heard a lot ofstories from various submissive
peoples about being in publicspaces like a bar, and some
dominant assuming that justbecause they are a submissive,
that that dominant can orderthem around.
No, obviously not.
If you're approaching asubmissive, treat them like a
(16:23):
human being, treat them asautonomous, treat their
submission as not yours yet, asin fact something to be earned.
And that means go up, introduceyourself, handshake.
Same thing, right?
Treat them like a human being.
And you also want to make surethat you don't really move into
a command mode unless there'svery clear consent given.
(16:48):
And this is important for acouple reasons.
For first of all, it's aboutrespecting them as human beings
who require consent.
It's about respecting theirsubmission and the preciousness
of it.
And those are very importantthings when we're in these sorts
of spaces.
(17:10):
So obviously, the other bigthing about approaching
submissives, and this is a thisis a complicated rule because
historically, the way I wasbrought up, if someone's in a
collar, then they are taken, andyou need to probably not
approach them.
Uh, if we're talking about highformal protocol, I would never
(17:31):
simply approach someone in acollar because I don't know that
I have permission to speak tothem.
Now, if they were there withtheir dominant, I might orient
myself to the dominant first andthen be able to talk to the
submissive.
But historically, if someone'sin a collar, that means they are
taken, they are claimed, andthey are not to be approached.
This has shifted radically,which is beautiful because kink
(17:54):
leather, this is a living thingthat grows and evolves.
And because a lot of timespeople just wear collars because
they like collars, or they wearcollars to keep creepy people
from hitting on them, or theywear collars because they and
their boyfriend collared eachother, and they're not even
really dominant or submissive,but they both like collars,
(18:16):
right?
I can no longer assume thatsomeone in a collar has been
collared by a dominant person.
I still behave the same.
I still, the safest thing for meis to assume, is to assume that
you are owned, you are taken,and therefore I should not be
approaching you.
Um there is like, I mean, we'reall still human beings, right?
(18:40):
So I can, it's not like I'm I'mnot allowed to talk to you, but
I certainly would not take youas an object to be pursued.
So if you're approaching adominant, wait for
acknowledgement, introduceyourself, extend sir on credit,
and then see if they're worthkeeping that credit.
(19:01):
If you're approaching asubmissive, definitely treat
them like a human being.
Definitely don't assume theirsubmission belongs to you.
Definitely wait until you havesome sort of consent from them
before you start giving themorders or acting in a more
dominant manner.
And if they're collared, proceedwith extreme caution because you
(19:22):
don't know what that collarmeans.
However, the safest approach isto assume that it means they are
taken completely.
Now, sometimes you'll want toapproach a couple or a triad or
a little cluster of very hot menin gear, right?
And with polyamory, it's reallyhard to tell.
Is this group of friends?
Is this, you know, what is this?
(19:44):
We don't know.
So the nice thing is, onceagain, because we're humans, you
can still go up and introduceyourself and give a handshake.
Even in these spaces, eventhough we're leather people in
these spaces, we're also people.
And so regular politeness goes along way.
Wait for an opening, don'tinterrupt conversation, wait for
an opening, introduce yourself,handshake.
(20:06):
If you're approaching a coupleor a triad or a cluster of hot
people in leather, you want topay attention again to the body
geometry.
Are they in a very closedposture, which would indicate
that they want to be bythemselves, that they are in
their own little cluster and arenot open to other people coming
in.
Is one of them standing behindthe other, which indicates a
(20:29):
very clear, submissive posture,and therefore you should not be
talking to that person, but tothe dominant.
The trouble with approachingcouples is that you don't know
their protocol.
You don't know how theycommunicate to each other, you
don't even really know who theyare to each other.
Because protocol tends to beinternal, private to a specific
(20:51):
relationship, you can't knowwhat protocol they follow.
But just as I find the safestrule of thumb is if I see
someone colored, don't approach.
I also feel the safest rule ofthumb when I'm meeting a couple
where one's clearly dominant andone's clearly submissive is to
orient to the dominant person.
(21:12):
Acknowledge everyone, but I willdo most of my speaking to the
dominant until it's clear thatthe protocol of their
relationship allows me to talkto all of them.
And again, it's not like theseare hard, fast rules.
And it's not like, I mean,things shift so much and evolve
in our community in beautifulways that these rules often
(21:35):
change quickly, I will say.
I always go for the safestthing.
The safest thing is alwayscollar means you're take it.
Safest thing is couple means I'mgonna talk to the dominant.
It's a way of making sure thatI'm least likely to offend.
Because people are still people,it is also perfectly correct to
(21:58):
ask respectfully, you know, canI speak to your boy?
Can you tell me about yourdynamic?
I want to make sure I respectyour dynamic.
You can ask them about itwithout them, without having to
pry.
It's true that just respect andpoliteness goes really, really,
really, really far.
Now, one of the ways ourcommunity has evolved, of
(22:19):
course, is that it has movedinto digital spaces.
And so the digital approachprotocol is not entirely
different from the protocol ofapproach in person.
And it tends to really mirror itquite a bit.
So, first message should beengaging, introductory, without
being demanding, withoutassuming their dominance or
(22:43):
their submission belongs to you.
And this can get reallycomplicated because in social
media there's a very curated,crafted image.
And because we are oftenconsuming social media in states
of arousal, I'll just say that,because we consume so much
social media in states ofarousal that we then assume that
(23:07):
that image of that person andthe person behind that image is
already in the fantasy that wehave in our minds, which is not
true.
They're actually probably justbuying groceries or doing dishes
or walking their dog, right?
So the first approach in a DMneeds to be respectful and
introductory.
I will say for me, one word DMsdo not get answers.
(23:32):
If it's just hello, hey, woof,wow, howdy.
I just this is again because myintro, you know, introverts hate
small talk.
And if you start with that, thenyou're really starting with
small talk.
Hello, and then I say, hello,and then they say, How are you
doing?
(23:52):
And I say, I'm fine, how areyou?
And then they say, I'm doinggreat.
I don't need all that.
So if you want to approach me, Iprefer messages that have
something to say.
They have a question they wantto ask me, or they say real
statement that gives mesomething to engage with.
Again, that isn't presuming thatI am their dominant, but is
(24:13):
still a way of engaging me as aperson, which will then lead to
other possibilities.
Definitely, definitely do not,do not begin with explicit
photos or video calls fromnowhere.
I've had many people just sendme pictures of various body
(24:34):
parts, which is presumptuous,which is a little rude, and uh
which really shows they don'tknow me at all.
Like the last thing I'minterested in is random pictures
of body parts.
So don't ever do that.
It's it I mean, in it becauseagain, we're mirroring online
(24:55):
spaces, and it would be likeshowing up at a bar and dropping
your pants and uh doing somesort of display.
No, granted, in some bars thatis perfectly appropriate.
But in digital spaces, let's notstart with the explicit photos.
The other thing about digitalspaces is really respect
response time.
(25:16):
Not everyone's on social mediaall the time.
I go through large periods whereI'm I'm not paying attention to
my social media at all.
And so don't assume they'regoing to get back to you right
away.
And then if they don't get backto you, don't just keep sending
more messages.
Either wait even longer for aresponse or accept that they are
(25:38):
not willing to respond to you.
No communication iscommunication, and you should
respect that.
Obviously, in terms of respectas well, you don't want to be
forwarding someone's DMs withoutconsent, that discretion is part
of our digital protocol.
A lot of times the lives peopleare living on social media are
(26:00):
in tension with their careers orwith their personal lives.
And so we want to be mindful ofthat and respectful of that,
that a conversation happening ina DM is between you two, or
however many are in the DM,right?
It is not to be shared widely.
Finally, I will also say likeit's useful to actually read
(26:21):
people's profiles before yousend them a message.
It is a real way of showingrespect and a real way of
showing an interest in engaging.
So for example, I have I getmessages all the time.
Where are you?
I'm in Fort Lauderdale.
It's in my profile.
It's in every single profile Ihave on every single platform.
(26:44):
And it just sort of tells methat, you know, for me, I feel
like people get all caught up inthe images and they don't even
think about the fact there's ahuman being behind them.
And so, and so they send theinappropriate DM.
And so they send a photo oftheir butthole, and so they send
a message that assumes somehowI'm already there, sir, because
(27:07):
they haven't even bothered toconsider the fact that I'm
actually human and not justimage.
And one way to do that is toread whatever text is in the
profile.
Have it in your head, be mindfulof it, and be mindful of
approaching a human being, whichI guess is sort of right.
This is this is the theme whenit comes to the protocol of
(27:29):
approach.
You are approaching a humanbeing.
You are not approaching a sir,you're not approaching a master,
you're not approaching a boy,you're not approaching a slave,
you're not approaching a pup,you're not approaching a kitten,
you're not approaching any ofthose things.
You are approaching a humanbeing.
Act like a human being.
Be polite and be respectful.
And then if things align and ifsignals are given and received,
(27:53):
then you can transition intoroles of dominance and
submission.
And let me say, you know, I Isaid earlier, like, I, and this
is especially true in in uhdigital communication, I don't
call anyone boy until they callme sir.
And even then, several timesI've asked people, is that a
(28:16):
sir, sir, or a southern polite,sir?
And more than once they've said,oh, that's a southern polite,
sir.
Right?
So there if there are people whoare raised a certain way, that
you just call people sir.
That is simply being polite.
And it doesn't mean I want youto be my sir.
So there are situations where Iwill absolutely even clarify
(28:36):
whether or not they are actuallycalling me sir before I start
treating them like a boy.
Obviously, because protocol isunwritten, because it is
shifting and growing andevolving, there are times we're
gonna fuck it up.
That's just gonna happen.
And um, and that's okay.
(28:57):
Repair and recovery is a part ofmoving into social spaces and
moving through the community.
So if someone corrects you aboutsomething because you called
them boy, but they only identifyas pup, don't fight them on
that.
Thank them, make a note of thecorrection, and move on.
If you really fuck something up,if you've done a misstep,
(29:19):
apologize once and move on.
And no is neutral information.
No is not rejection.
If someone tells you no, it hasnothing to do about you.
Probably has more to do withwhat's going on in their lives.
So do not take it as rejection,but do take it as a sign that it
might be time to move on.
(29:40):
You might also find that thereare microcustoms within a given
space, within a given bar of whohangs out in the bathroom and
who hangs out at the pool table,or don't hang out at the pool
table because we're playingpool.
There might be other protocolsthat you will come to learn as
you spend time in a space.
Across all of these things, Partof what you'll find is that
(30:02):
protocol turns awkwardness intoinvitation.
Approaching anyone is scarybecause none of us want to get
rejected.
Not a single one of us want tofeel rejection.
It is not not a good feeling.
But if we think about protocols,protocols are really a way of
(30:23):
keeping ourselves safe.
And that's true within arelationship, and it's true with
the protocols of approach.
It is a way of keeping us safe.
And that's why eye contact,which is a sign of
acknowledgement, okay, that's asign I can approach.
That's why I'm going to startoff treating you like a human,
because if you're not interestedin me, then I'm not going to
reach that point of rejection.
I'm just going to be human tohuman and then we end it.
(30:46):
So what could be awkward becomesa little less awkward through
protocol.
And getting things right isn'treally about um knowing all the
rules.
It's about being aware of peopleand the context.
(31:10):
So that's how do you approachpeople, both dominants,
submissives, people who youdon't even know if they're
dominant or submissive, peoplein couples.
Approach them like a humanbeing.
But let's think more about theprotocol of leather spaces.
This sort of community protocolis a little bit like our culture
(31:31):
in motion.
So the private protocol is a wayof expressing who we are to each
other.
You're sir, I'm boy, whatever,whatever.
The protocol of approach is away of navigating the
awkwardness of a first socialinteraction.
And the community protocols area way of expressing to each
other we belong to the samecommunity.
(31:56):
In general, you want to observefirst and act later.
So if you're in a play space,watch.
Do not approach anyone, watch.
Later, after the play is done,after the aftercare is done,
after the next day, if you're atan event, right, then you make
(32:19):
the approach.
Scenes are sacred.
You never, ever, ever, ever walkinto someone's scene, get in the
way of someone's scene, assumeyou can touch the submissive in
someone's scene.
Never, ever, ever.
A lot of this has to do withbeing mindful of space.
(32:45):
And that's especially true inplay spaces, because it is very
easy to walk right in the way ofsomeone's flogging, right into
the way of someone's whipping.
Those sorts of scenes require alot of space, and that space is
a little dynamic.
Like you don't know how muchspace they're taking up,
depending on what point of thescene you come into and where
the whip or flogger is at thatpoint in time.
(33:07):
So being mindful of space meansreally keeping track of who's
doing what to whom and makingsure you don't cross any lines,
literally, the line of theflogger, the line of the whip,
the line of the paddle.
But being mindful of space isalso being mindful of people's
personal space and reallyknowing when it's okay to
(33:28):
approach and when it's not.
And people will signal when it'sokay to approach.
And there are lots of places, ifwe're thinking about an event,
generally speaking, there's amain gathering area, there's a
lobby, there's a party, there'sa bar.
And those are generally neutralspaces where it's pretty okay to
approach.
Obviously, in all of thesespaces, no unsolicited touch, no
(33:51):
photography without permission,and in play spaces or dungeons,
no noise that's going to reallydisrupt.
And this is complicateddepending on who you're playing
with and how they process pain,for example, they may be making
a lot of noise.
Trust that there will be somesort of dungeon monitor who can
help you figure out what levelsare appropriate for that space.
(34:16):
Sometimes really, really loudscreaming is fine, sometimes
it's not.
But you may not know the answer.
Dungeon monitors do.
And you want to pay.
Dungeon monitor is someone youalways obey.
And it's someone you always obeybecause they have they have all
the power.
And their responsibility is notsimply to keep you safe, but to
keep the space safe.
(34:37):
And that means that everyone canenjoy it.
And that's why we absolutely doanything, a dungeon monitor
says.
Um, you know, I will also takespecial note of some of the
protocol at contests, becauseI've more than once been at
contests where the MC has had toshush the crowd because they're
(35:03):
talking so loud that we can'thear contestants give their
speech.
And this is really, this isinterestingly, this is an effect
of intersecting protocols.
So there's a protocol of aleather contest where it's a
show, so you're not talking, youclap when you're supposed to
clap, you shout for a contestantwhen you want to shout, you
(35:25):
laugh when something's funny,but you you know, but you but
you're there paying attention tothe stage.
unknown (35:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (35:35):
So contests, there's a contest thing, and we know how
to behave at a contest.
But a lot of times thesecontests are at bars, and bars
are exactly the place where youtalk and you be social and you
drink and you get louder becauseyou've been drinking.
And so when you have a contestin a bar, it becomes really
complicated because the protocolof the bar, sociality, and the
protocol of the contest, be alittle quiet, conflict.
(35:58):
I will ask, if you are at acontest and it's coming to the
portion, any speaking portionwith the contestants, if you are
not in a place where you want topay close attention to that,
step as far away as possible,perhaps even outside the bar, to
have conversation or keepconversation as quiet as
(36:20):
possible.
Bars will have their ownprotocol, events will have their
own protocol, contests will havetheir own protocol.
A lot of times the way we learnthese is by being observational
within a space and seeing howother people are interacting.
It's a way of teaching us thebest way to approach.
(36:42):
Now, at events, in particular,the uh the protocol of approach
that we talked about at a barapplies at events as well.
So orient yourself to thedominant, don't assume that the
simissive is yours to be orderedaround, et cetera, et cetera, et
cetera.
All of these things continuallyevolve and evolve not simply to
(37:05):
shifting circumstances, but toshifting needs so that we might
find more protocol, ourprotocols might become more
inclusive because as acommunity, we're trying to
become more inclusive.
I think there's also needs to bea kind of understanding of the
range of neurodiversity in ourcommunities, because some
neurodivergent people maystruggle with public protocols
(37:31):
because a lot of times they relyon picking up subtle social
cues.
And depending on your flavor ofneurospiciness, you simply may
not have the ability to pick upon those cues, and that can lead
to a lot of missteps.
I think it's important for usmore than ever to be
understanding and forgiving ofpeople who have different brain
(37:53):
structures and to make space forthem.
So I've certainly met somepeople who are very
neurodivergent, and I the bigthing is I don't get offended.
I don't get offended.
In general, I don't getoffended.
But I think it's important forus to continue to evolve the
protocol as our community tendsto evolve and as who's in it
(38:14):
tends to evolve.
Throughout all of this, youknow, if we go back to the sort
of private protocol betweenindividuals, that is something
you build yourself, and thatreally creates your own dialect
of respect.
It really, your personalprotocol is how you communicate
who you are to the world aroundyou.
(38:35):
So, for example, I know somesubmissive people who live by
their own protocol and they opendoors for people and they call
everyone sir or ma'am, or theyact fully submissive in a way
that is socially acceptable, andthey do that all the time.
(38:56):
And that becomes this sort ofprotocol they've created that
works in one-on-onerelationships, that works in
approach spaces, that works incommunity spaces.
So you want to be thinking aboutyour own protocol and how you
want to live it.
And part of that is going to bethinking about what makes you
feel safe, valued, connected,what you want to communicate
(39:19):
about yourself.
Is it your dominance?
Is it your versatility?
Is it your openness toconversation?
Is it the fact you're anintrovert and you hate people?
Think about that.
And like any protocol, you'regoing to want to review your own
personal protocol as it evolves,as you refine it.
At the end of the day, protocolremains fundamentally about
(39:43):
communication.
And it is a communication thattakes place beyond the verbal,
that takes place in theorientation of bodies within a
space, that takes place inmotion, how people move through
a space or move towards or awayfrom a person.
And it binds everyone.
If we're all, if we have somebasic, and protocol varies a
(40:07):
lot.
Varies a lot by event, by bar,by location, by region, by
country, right?
But to the extent that we havesome common protocol of respect
in the community, things like, Ithink it's pretty universally
true, don't walk into the middleof anyone's scene, right?
Because we have some commonelements of protocol, it creates
(40:28):
a shared meaning.
And that's part of what bindscommunity into community.
So as you think about your ownprotocol, I hope you will think
about what values you thinkabout who you are, think about
what's important to you, andthink about how you want to move
(40:50):
through the world in a way thatexpresses that all the time,
that expresses that to otherpeople, to people in the
community, to people outside thecommunity.
I hopefully provided an entryramp into various kinds of
protocol.
(41:12):
And go back and listen to if youwant to hear about protocol
between two people, then go backand listen to the original
episode.
But this time we've beenthinking more about basic
protocols of approach and basicprotocols of communal spaces.
And hopefully it gives you aplace in.
Because I think the one downsideabout protocol is if you don't
(41:36):
know it, you feel lost and youfeel like an outsider.
Um so hopefully I've at leastgiven you ways to move into the
community.
I'm also thinking, oh, you know,the other, here's a random piece
of protocol.
(41:57):
And this is I don't even, Idon't even know if I want to
call this protocol, but and thisis, you know, it's so funny
because I just carry aroundthings that have been inherited,
and I'm pretty sure some of themgo all the way back to old
guard.
Not that I consider myself oldguard, but obviously certain
practices, certain teachingsjust kind of stuck across
(42:19):
generations.
And one of the ones that hasstuck for me has been you,
generally speaking, don't toucha person's leather.
But most importantly, you never,ever touch someone's cover.
I don't even know who taught methat.
Um, but I recall veryspecifically, I was in another
(42:40):
city uh at their local leatherbar.
It had a, you know, it's a citywith a beautiful city with a
decent leather community.
I was at the leather bar sittingaround a table with uh my boy
and some other leather people,and this very hot guy came up
and was talking to us, and I hadmy cover on the table, and he
picked it up and put it on hishead.
(43:01):
And sorry, sorry, that was areally loud laugh, sorry.
Everyone around the table, weall like jaw-dropped our eyes,
giant eyes, like, oh my god,what did he just do?
And and this person wasoblivious because even though he
was in that community space, itwas clear that he hadn't found
(43:23):
his entry ramp into thecommunity.
And I didn't say anything, I wasnot offended.
I was I was flabbergasted, I wasshocked.
Everyone at the table registeredsome degree of shock that anyone
would ever do that, which isinteresting because that really
reveals how deep that protocolis settled into the community,
(43:43):
even though I don't know thatit's explicitly taught anywhere.
We were all shocked.
I wasn't pissed, but but uh butI did instantly know, okay, this
is a person who is not in thecommunity in a way that I'm in a
community, not in this communitythe way that I'm in this
community.
But it also could have just aseasily been this is a person who
(44:04):
did not have on-ramps intoprotocol and and therefore is in
the space, but not in thecommunity.
And I guess I kind of wonderedwhether or not he would have
wanted on-ramps, protocol onramps.
And in case there are otherpeople like that, I'm hoping
this episode gives you a placeto start, because there's
(44:28):
nothing worse than being at anevent, being at a bar, being in
a play space, you're wearing allthe right things, but it's as
though nobody sees you.
That is very painful, I know.
And the remedy to that is tobegin to understand these
(44:51):
unwritten communicative codes ofthe community so that as you
enact protocol, the way youcarry yourself, the way you
place your body in relation toother bodies, the way you talk
to other people, the way youinteract with other people, the
moment you can start evennavigating some protocol, that
(45:12):
helps people see you.
And being seen is what meansyou're there.
You're in, you're part of thatcommunity.
And that can be deeply, deeply,deeply fulfilling.
So between the last episode andthis one, I'm hoping that
everyone has a chance to findtheir own on-ramp into protocol,
(45:33):
even as then, once they're inthe community, once they know
some common protocols, theybegin to shape their own.
And I hope that helps some ofyou.
And that's it for this episode.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Please consider subscribing, oryou can send feedback to edge at
(45:54):
fullcal.show.
As always, may your leatherjourney be blessed.
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