Episode 166: Misaligned Despite Our Best Intention. How to fix the marketing and sales silos with ABM with Mason Cosby

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is the Full Funnel B t B marketing podcast,
brought to you by full Funnel dot io.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Let's start. Hey everyone, and welcome to the last webinar
before the summer break.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Today.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Instead of my co founder of Vladimir Blagoy, which I'm
co hosting, it was Mason Cosby, co founder of Happy
a b M. By the way, Mason, you need to
click on go and stage to the green button the
journey and as announced as announced, I go. I want
to talk today about marketing and sales alignment. So we

(00:43):
had a couple of chats with Mayson about what's going
on UH in dB market and space and August we
spoke about the state of a b M and what
makes ABM program successful and also what's the number one
reason of failure and what we have to find so
obviously analyze on our conversations with Prospects and Mason share

(01:06):
the same opinion is that lots of teams they define
the current status of marketing and sales alignment as aligned
on papers, but actually not doing anything in practice. And
hence this is the topic for our today's webinar, miss aligned.
Despite our best intention, there's a few questions that I

(01:28):
know you guys are going to ask us definitely. First, Yes,
the recording will be available. You can use the same
log and link. Basically, the recording will be here on
this platform and you can either rewatch it later or
you can share it with your team. And then the
second question your modern welcome to ask questions. On the

(01:49):
right sidebar, you should have a tab called Q and A,
so feel free to post your questions there and we'll
make sure to cover all of them. And that sets
let's kick off mess and sanselas for John and Manka
has on this webinars me today.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
Absolutely super stoked to be here and Andre, I just
really appreciate uh the opportunity. So I want to go
ahead and dig right into it and ask the question
of just why are we misaligned with sales? Go ahead
and type in the chats with the things why you
are seeing some misalignment with your sales team. One of
the things I want to go ahead and call out
is when we often hear people talk about misalignment, there

(02:34):
tend to be one of two extremes that come out.
So one is sales is stupid, UH and evil and
we hate them, and then the other extreme is h
marketing lives in a fantasy land where it's all brand
and we never actually have a revenue implication, and those
are often the extremes that I see. Our goal today

(02:55):
is to recognize that.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Those are correct.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
There is a balanced approach on why we actually see
a lot of misalignment between marketing and sales. So hopefully,
as you're dropping some things in the chat, you may
end up just seeing like we're going to directly work
through why. So I want to go ahead and start
to see that conversation so that we can all be
on the same page.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Around functionally what we often see. The next thing is
I want.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
To flip their perspective and walk through what sales typically
is actually looking for. I want to talk through how
we can balance brand building and sales activation. We want
to talk about how to operationalize your partnership. And the
last thing that I always want to dig back into
is specifically sales compensation. So that said, here's how you
get the most out of the session for starters, We're

(03:43):
going to here in just a moment, actually walk through
the data bactorisms on why we're misaligned. So, again, as
you're dropping things in the chat, on why you currently
think you're misaligned. There may be one problem that as
we talk through the data, you're like, oh, that super
resonates with me. I do not think out of this
session it is reasonable to think that you can solve
every problem.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
In the next thirty days.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
What I would highly recommend is you write down the
one problem that is the biggest hurdle for your success
and then take specific notes on that. The second thing
is you are here, and we're super thankful you're here.
I can also guarantee that there are team members that
are not here and we do want to have time
with the in for some questions. Go ahead and write
a message to your team that just says, hey, I'm
in a session right now. I would love to go
ahead and also get questions from your team so we

(04:24):
can answer everyone's questions. And the last thing is set
a time block on your calendar for next week or
if you're out a office next week the week after,
to go ahead and plan some things to actually go
and do. I say this every time I get the
opportunity to speak. Information about implementation is useless, So we
really want the session to be useful for you. So
if you actually listen to this whole thing and you

(04:45):
change nothing. It would have been better if you have
not been here. So make this worth your time and
do something with the information. So that said, Hi, I'm
Mason by the way, for those of you that don't
know me, I'm the founder of SCRAPPYVM. Actually, in the
past three years have worst about twenty five million dollars
in revenue. UH typically for boutique bootstrap businesses. Our organization

(05:06):
has sourced about one hundred million for a lot of
vertical SaaS companies. And then we try to build repeatable programs,
teach how to own them, and pass them back to
you so you can run this in house. So that's
what we do. Uh, Andre, You've got a really headshot
didn't have.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's probably an AI prototype of my Let's say face
and lad Space merged together health health but jack aside.
I mean, let's as happened with the hatshot when the
slides will applauded in here. But I'm Andre I'm co
founder of full Final dot Io. We have full Final

(05:44):
bit ofb market and consultant company for uh detech companies.
Was long sales cycles and high subr products, and I
have spents of eighteen years and to the market, or
more precisely and enterprise bitterber marketing and sales. So have
lots of things to chat today as you guys. And
by the way, quick question, why are you all joining

(06:07):
us from type and the Chat? I'm broadcasting from super
Hot Spain.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, I'm jealous that you're in Spain. I'm in Indianapolis, which,
if you follow us sports, my entire city is depressed
because we lost the NBA Finals I think Monday night.
So anyway, I don't follow much on the sports front,
but everyone that I talk to is really sad right now. Anyway,

(06:35):
speaking of sadness, one of the things that makes marketing
and sales teams incredibly sad. See that seamless transition is
the lack of alignment between marketing and sales. And that's
why we actually title this despite best intentions, and when
we've looked at the data, it typically comes down to
one of three core reasons why ABM programs and why

(06:55):
typically marketing and sales teams are missaligned.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
So the is miscommunicate.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
I always love to do this exercise whenever we start
to talk to new clients, is just ask really basic
questions like so, what is a lead, what is an MQL?

Speaker 1 (07:08):
What is an SQL?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
And we actually have a separate meeting with marketing and
separate meeting with sales, and we ask the same questions
and see how their definitions are different. So as a result,
we actually say the same words but mean different things,
and functionally we're speaking a different language. So that's challenge
number one.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
It's really hard to communicate and get on the same
page if you don't all mean the same things.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
The second thing is just different goals. So we've had
plenty of clients that had marketing goals that weren't made
in tandem with sales goals, So marketing celebrates while sales
didn't hit their pipeline goals.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Really tough.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
And the last thing is compensation. We'll talk about this
a lot more, but the same sentence that I hear
often from marketers when they go to build an AVM
program is to get sales bought in. They're like, we're
going to make our sellers way more money. Challenges they
don't actually know their sales team is compensated. So we've
actually seen situations in which the ABM program made sellers

(08:05):
less money based on the competition structure.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Was set up.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
So again, these are three reasons on why these things
are misaligned.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
So we're going to take a lot into that today.
So that said, Andre, I know you've got some.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Really super helpful illustrative slides for what typically happens.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Absolutely, if I would summarize ever since that you have
just said, respond, what I would call it silas this
is the most common and the road problem of all challenges,
not only ABM related. Right, So, how typically marketing and
sales alignment happens in the organizations? Right? Obviously accom based

(08:46):
marketing as we all know that this is a joint initiata, right,
but typically it's initiated by the marketing team. Right. What
happens next could be described pretty much well by the
scene on The Godfather Mover, right, when I feel of
sales rep or head of sales you know, talks to

(09:06):
the senior leader saying, hey, marketing said they want to
work prosise and run ABM. Fuine let's do it. So
what happens next is just sales through a list of
three accounts that are not qualified. There is no buying them,
there is no vendor awareness, there is no indication that
these accounts are in the market. They are only nice

(09:29):
to have logos or kind of tree in a bad
sense of these thream accounts, which we call wish list
sinking here. Right, So the accounts that would be nice
to sell too, but it's extremely hard. Right. These accounts
don't know you, you have no relationship, and they have
no reason to buy from you. Now, So what happens next? Next?

(09:54):
Marketing is supposed to create a classic ABM playbook.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Right.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
They receive the wish list from sales. Typically it's a
big list with hundreds of accounts, most of them especially
if for talking about going up market or enterprise by
plan generation. This will be fortune five hundred companies and
obviously limited resources. Nobody would reveal marketing from other responsibilities

(10:20):
and duties, right, So marketing should put it now on
the full plate. And what happens next? Right? Obviously you
have no capacity, no resources to run personalized ABM or
what we call one to one or even one to
few ABM. All you can do in this case is

(10:41):
just purchase ABM software or in the worst case scenario,
just applad this list of accounts to LinkedIn run programmatic
ads or linked in targeting ads. Right, And then basically
when engagement happens sharing these engaged accounts with sales and
sales obviously they don't have time to do any so

(11:03):
meaningful in terms of account planning, right or buying committee engagement.
All they can do is just setting up automated outbound
canon says and just pan them all, right and expect that. Basically,
if I will summarize, this typical classic ABM playbook is
just pray and pray. Right. It's not really different from

(11:23):
the lead generation. You can still call it account based
because you have the list of accounts, right. The problem
is that it's far from what real account based marketing
looks like. And the second problem with this playbook, right
that marketers they are still supposed to hit the targets
with empty ls, right, So just to justify the investment

(11:45):
in ABM, they continue arounding gated PDRs, et cetera, right,
trying to kind of generate now mkls from the accounts
that sales gave to marketing and share. Okay, guys, now
it's your job to close them. But as I have
seen in the chat, you guys said, some of you
said that sales usually prioritize marketing leads and never do

(12:09):
any and any meaningful engagement with them. And this is
the real problem, right, everybody expects we call it ABM,
but in natural we're basically we all know that it
is not ABM. It's just a targeted lead gen and
we just hope or pray that it will work. But
in reality we never saw it working to the honest,

(12:32):
So most of the companies that were spoke to that
tried this type of ABM always failed these programs. And
I added just screenshots of some business cases that we
were co created with marketing teams of our clients where
you can explicitly see that this how these playbooks actually
end up. So if the question if still the question

(12:54):
you might have why this playbook is not working, there
are a couple of things. First of all, the silence
is still there. I mentioned in the beginning right that
the silence is the root problem and the root issue
for all for all ABM programs that failed next sales.
They don't understand their role and they expect that marketing

(13:17):
will do all the work and they will just you know,
put the last chair on the cake, just showing up
on the discovery calls of better on just proceeded with
the sales opportunities that were qualified by somebody and engaged
by somebody. Next, there are obviously no clear playbooks on
how to engage the buying community. Everything should be automated,

(13:39):
everything should be scaled by default, and there are a
couple of other things. Account based marketing means personalization, right,
but personalization goes way beyond you know, liquid dynamic texts
that you put in your ads or in cold emails
that you are sending. Personalization is understanding or having I

(14:04):
would maybe rephrase it having in depth understanding of account needs,
account initiatives, then looking into the buying committee groups, understanding
the initiatives and the role of this buying committee group
and these key initiatives. Understanding the associated challenges, understanding the
alternatives they might be considered understanding the current status quo.

(14:27):
Because this is quite maybe even the most common reason
why enterprise pipeline fails because of lack of opportunity to
challenge the internal status quare right, and plusly, understanding the
needs of everyboder persona right, That's the key, and if
you don't have this information, you will never be able

(14:50):
to run a successful ABM program. So let's move forward
to the I know you just that was the road problem.
So let's move forward and then present the solutions. Yeah,
I think that's yeah, this one.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, So it's uh, if you're already still with us,
We've spent fifteen minutes telling you all the reasons that fails.
I promise now we're going to get into all the
reasons that you can make it successful. So in short,
again we say the same words, we mean different things.
So I've yet to find a marketing and sales team
that have actually met in the same room. And then
everyone didn't all say yes, we want more revenue, we

(15:29):
want our target accounts. Like everyone says the right things,
but what we've often seen is everyone has a different
picture in their mind when we outline what that functionally
looks like. And you, as a marketer went to sales
and said that's what I'm going to go build, and
I said that sounds great, and you actually go build

(15:50):
the thing, and you come back and present what you
build and feels like this is terrible. And as a result,
like everyone's just kind of confused. They feel misunderstood and frustrated.
So one of the biggest things that we sorted to
do in the past two years is when we have
this conversation, we have to align really past the words
the conversation. We actually work in specific tools that are

(16:14):
visualization tools that are like actually shockingly inexpensive, but they
allowed to live build. So Andre has already had some
visuals that a lot of people see, Oh, this is
what's going to happen. We've got more visuals to show you.
But when you take the conversation and you visualize it, yes,
it's helpful. The visuals are nice, they're easy to engage with.
The reason they work is people all learn and understand

(16:35):
concepts in different ways. So there are some people that
are auditory learners. So is you're just listening on this,
you might be working on something else. You're grasping the information.
Some people need to read it, some people need to
see a visual So when you create these things in
different assets in different ways, it allows you to have
the most accessible approach for actually educating aligning with sales,

(16:56):
that's I think the key takeaway is if you're going
to actually align with sales, yes, talk through at work
through it, define your terms, make sure you're actually saying
the same things, and then visualize it before you go
build it, and then end up coming back doing exactly
what you said you were going to do that everyone
agreed to, uh, and then it's not what you end
up looking for. So that's the high level. I think

(17:18):
we just cover off of miscommunication. Now we want to
dig directly into goals. So go and drop in the chat.
When you think about the goals for sales, like, what
are sales goals? This is not a trick question, it's
actually shockingly simple. So go and drop in the chat.
What are the goals? Yes, we've got revenue, we've got
thank you for the thumbs up. What else do we have? Revenue?

(17:42):
It's the big one, pipeline conversions. Yeah, all right, all right,
we're getting it. So in short, I'm going to make
it really simple. It's meetings, it's qualified ops that move,
opportunity to close.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's about it. I have heard in the stability sellers
and they all applaud and they're like, that's all we need,
that's all we look for.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
And the other question I always like to ask is like, well,
what's the time horizon for sales? Like how long do
we have to get those meetings in those opportunities.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yes, someone already put now what else is this? This
is true? Quarter or months? Yeah, so we're gonna go
ahead and outline it. It's days, weeks, and quarters.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
So as an example, actually right before this, literally right
before this webinar, I hopped on our daily stand up
with my salesperson and I said, what meetings do we
have today? And like what support do you need to
push those meetings forward? We have a pipeline review every
single week where I say, how do we move each
of these deals to the next stage this week? And
then we're always looking at the quarterly goal. Some months

(18:49):
will be a little bit lighter, some months will be
a little heavier, but we think about getting these meetings,
these opportunities that move the clothes. The best salespeople that
I know maybe think one year time, but often it's
how do I close this quarter? So that's the time horizon,
which Stinbeck's the questions we're talking about aligning with marketing
and sales.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
We just think slightly differently.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
So I want to show you you can see the
like the blue color, that blue is all of the
sales meetings and all of the time spent building proposals.
So this is a calendar from like last week. I
don't know that word we got cut off, but like
last week when I took the screen shot, or maybe

(19:36):
it was two weeks ago at this point, but I
took the screenshot and this was my calendar so super packed,
Like as a salesperson, this is like the dream calendar.
But then I actually took a screenshot two weeks out
from when I took these screenshots, and I had one
meeting on the calendar for forty five minutes. So when

(19:58):
we talk about building a that's going to deliver pipeline
two quarters from now, sales thinks that's great.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
But like, and I have meetings this week.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
So when we think about the priorities in the time horizons, sales,
Justine thinks differently. So that begs the next question, which is, well,
what's the time horizon for marketing? So go ahead and
drop in the chat, like the time horizon typically for marketing? Yeah,
sixty days is a good answer. So we've got sixty days,
we've got one quarter, we've got quarters, weeks, months, years.

(20:35):
I think that's great. What I've generally found is it's
typically months, quarters in years. Only budgets approved that's sad
when I have been so again, I've I've been both
marketing and sales for the past five years and kind
of bounce between the two roles. Often, the most urgent

(20:57):
request that I get as a marketer is end of week.
Sometimes there's the occasional like end of day thing, but
it's mostly like, hey, can we get this by the
end of the week, whereas for sales, it's typically like
end of hour, it's like eleven fifty five and it's like, hey,
I knew this by noon, it's like awesome.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
So we think about the time horizon. Things are just compressed.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
So it creates different pressures that sometimes I have found,
especially when I show the calendar. That's one of the
most helpful things for a lot of marketers because when
a marketer looks at their week and they see an
empty calendar, like, yes, I get the time to actually
create and like build things. When a seller seees an
empty calendar, they're like, got it, I'm not going to
be able to feed my family and like, same calendar.

(21:42):
Different roles, radically different perspectives on the outcomes. But that
also begs the question what is marketing doing? Like what
all is marketing. Doing this is your time, marketers, go
ahead and drop in the chat all the things you're doing.
If you think it's everything, you're gonna love the next
slide off in the chat, like what all are you
guys actually working on right now? And are you all

(22:03):
doing aligning with sales? Love it working middle funnel increase.
So you're the global head of marketing, so you're focused
on like everything around the globe. We've got demand gen
brand customer advocacy.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Yeah, it's like a lot of stuff you're doing like
all of these things.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
So like you're working on social and email and events
and search and paid and podcasting and webinars and influencer programs.
You're also like focused on the brands. Like we went
good vibes.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
We're sitting like all this background is just like vibes.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Like I don't know what the revenue implication is of this,
but like I know that because I have a real
like neon sign and I have like nice.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Lights that like it puts a vibe out. That's a
good vibe.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
We're doing SEO, We're trying to make downloadables, We're trying
to do sales enablement. We're like focused on everything it
feels like which is super reasonable. And as you look
at these things, like what are these actually contribute sales goals?

Speaker 1 (23:00):
When I ask marketers carrying the whole organization, when.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
I ask marketers, marketers is like, well, all of this
like I didn't do my job, like sales would be
like super without pipeline, Like I know that this like
massive brand play is going to pay off three quarters
from now. So when we talk about alignment, like we
view all of these things in such high regard for
contributing to sales goals.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
But if you ask sales what contributes to sales goals, it's.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Like, well, maybe email, maybe our events if we like
did a good pre event thing. Maybe paid search if
it converts instantaneously, maybe paid social. Maybe webinars if they're
a product. Demo if we just like did a demo,
every webinar that would contribute to sales goals. For sure,
our referral program that one gets me meetings. For sure,
the sales enablement that accelerates my pipeline. For sure, you

(23:51):
writing my outbound sequences for me and loading them into
our outreach software so I can just press go. And
then for sure, managing the website with good content that
answers all of my prospects questions and makes it easy
for me to get in done.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Meetings like those four.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Love those, These other five they might work, and everything
else I don't really care about because their perspective and
their timeframe is days, weeks, quarters. So we talk about
programs that deliver in twenty six or twenty seven, doesn't
register because they don't care. I want to be super
clear here because some of you may hate me for that,

(24:25):
and I do think that marketing should think long term.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
One hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Challenge that I think some marketers sometimes mess is that
the long term I actually get here. If we don't
have pipeline today, we don't have meetings today. So when
we talk about building these really long term programs, they're great.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I love them. I'm a big fan. If we don't
deliver now, like, we don't get there.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
And from my experience, I have done very large brand
plays like Andre you guys do the full Funnel summit.
When I worked in a past agency, I actually did
a day long conference similar to full Funnel that was
called ABMs on and put it together in like six weeks,
got seven hundred people registered.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
It was great for us.

Speaker 3 (25:10):
It's like a year one type experiment and had zero
revenue implications. It was entirely a brand play because the
pipeline was full and we had other things that we're
already delivering pipeline. So like you can do cool stuff,
we have to have a full pipeline. And this is
my perspective. And again some of you will hate me.
I promise I'm on your team. We have to acknowledge

(25:31):
that the lack of alignment is marketing's fault.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Let me.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
If you came here hoping that I was willing to say,
here are all the reasons to get sales bought in and
loving your programs. I don't have that answer for you
because I cannot change someone else's mind. What I can
do is acknowledge the things that I can own in
a situation and change those things. Because when something is

(25:59):
our fault, that actually means it's within our control to
fix it. So I'm gonna go ahead and peel back
their curtain for a moment. It actually doesn't matter if
it's your fault or not, because who you point to
has the control. So if it's all sales fault, it
means you have no ability to fix anything, and you're
screwed and you can't do your job, and you should
probably quit because if you can't figure it out, you're

(26:20):
probably gonna get fired anyway. So like, if that's the alternative,
I'd rather accept fault and fix it, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
So that's that's my perspective on it.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
And it's been a massively beneficial perspective because it's shifted
the game into a very practical framing through which we
actually solve the issues.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
So I also want to give you some data.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
This is one of my favorite pieces of data that
outlines the actual appropriate balance of brand building versus sales activation.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
So go look at it for yourself.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Cons from the book Along and Short of It, which
was written by Peter Field, Sorry yeah, Peter Fields and
Less than That and Alan's Slayne. It's the appropriate budget
allocation for brand building versus sales activation is actually sixty
percent towards the brand building forty percent towards sales activation.
And again, as I talked to lots of marketers, they're
either like fully focused on like how do we generate
pipeline this quarter, or they're typically focused like two years out,

(27:10):
and it's a blend it's a balance you need both.
And as we then think about using this data and saying, hey,
we can generate some pipeline, but it's like super volatile.
Like the redline for those of you that can't see
it super clearly is the activation piece. And the other
thing if you go look at the data, it literally
says short term effects dominate in a six month timeframe.

(27:35):
Like the actual language from researchers that did this research
was dominates. So if you need pipeline, activation quite literally
dominates on a six month time horizon. But if you
don't build the brand, you only live on pipeline volatility
and you're only as good as your last sale. So

(27:55):
that's typically where Marketer's focus. We don't focus on the well,
how do we make it through the next six months.
So that said, I'm gonna actually give you a script.
If you want to drive alignment, here are the kind
of main characterists or the main points you want to
hit on. So link one, we will build pipeline today.
If you go to sales and you say we're gonna
build pipline to day and not say we're gonna build

(28:17):
this program that will generate pipeline six months from now,
but you say we're gonna do things right now that
will actually get pipeline moving. Typically people perk up a
little bit once you build pipeline. That gets you breathing
room to build the brand. Because once you haveipeline and
repeatable pipeline programs, you can then go build brand because

(28:38):
you actually have breathing room to do.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
So.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
The other thing when to outline is you need to
communicate timelines and consequences.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
There is no perfect solution.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
This will have some repercussions, but so will the alternative.
So just outlining these are the timelines, these are the consequences,
don't throw blame specifically accept for fault. So it's been
really helpful if you are ever in a conflict, go
into the conflict first by saying, hey, these are the

(29:09):
things that I know I can own what it does.
It's actually like largely diffuses any conflict. If you just
own everything that you can own, then they don't really
have anything.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
To throw at you.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
You just like called it out up front, So it
really helps to diffuse conflict. And the last thing is
just categorize problems versus opportunities. The biggest reason I outlined
this is well let's say you have an overall a
thirty percent close rate. Actually I'll make it fifteen. That'll
be easier because that's more realistic. You've got a fifteen

(29:40):
percent close rate, and as you look at the stages
from one sage to the next, you see a significant
drop off after call too. So it's like ninety percent
move to call to thirty percent move from call to
to call three, and then eighty percent move to call three.
The problem is clearly whatever we're doing and call too,

(30:00):
like call too, needs to be fixed. Whereas if we
say we need to go get more pipeline, what if
we opened up a new channel and invested thirtydred thousand
dollars in events. If you've ever done events, events is
an unproven channel, that's an opportunity. Opportunities could propel the
business forward. But if we solve the problem of call too,
that will definitely grow the business. So outletting those two

(30:23):
things and categorizing them allows you to have a more
intelligent conversation on what to align with from a sales perspective.
So here's the exact script for how to have this conversation.
As a market Lots of words people have already asked
what we send the slides out. We absolutely will DM
Andre or myself and we'll get you the slides. But
if you're a marketer, go to sales or executive leadership
and say this, I know we need pipeline right now.

(30:44):
Marketing has been focused on primarily brand building. We can
do things that will build pipeline right now. Ps We'll
give you the list of examples of things that you
can go build literally right now using your currency or
end data. Like it's actually shockingly simple. Here is my hesitation.
We will damage our brand, we will weaken our audience trust,

(31:04):
and we could actually be super successful in the short term,
but that short term success will create pipeline volatility and
then create unrealistic goals. What we're trying to prevent by
communicating this is we actually shoot our shot, and we
hit the quarterly goal and give ourselves the breathing room,
and the next quarter's goal is raised, and I was like, well,

(31:28):
I can't like I shot our shot.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
This is what we had that we was short.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Term results focused, and if we just continuously raise the
goal every quarter, we never actually get the breathing room
to truly build the brand that will deliver for years
and years to come. So if we're all aligned that
we're going to do some short term programs to build pipeline.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Here's what I'd recommend.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
The next six to nine months, we'll have pipeline volatility,
but if we can actually build the pipeline, we can
then transition to a more balanced approach. And that's needed
because long term brand building is crucial for animal growth,
easier pipeline generation, pipeline acceleration, and close rates. So we
then move into here's what I need. This is your ask.

(32:12):
I need a consistent pipeline goal for the next eighteen months.
With a consistent goal, we can dedicate sixty to seventy
percent of marketing's time and budget directly to building repeatable
sales activation playbooks in the next six months. These playbooks
should be always on programmatic playbooks that should then prioritize
outreach for sales. I want to be super clear what
I'm out aligning is not necessarily ABM.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Fully, this is what we do as like.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
A transitionary period to help align marketing and sales, because
ABM will totally fail if you have no sales buy in.
And I mean when you ask what do I mean
by brand building. It's a great question. I'll give you
an example right here, right now, Andre and I we've got.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Some slides at the end, I'll go ahead and outline
that are like, hey, if you need help, like we
can help you.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
But most of this right now is actually brand building,
Like you're not going to get a bunch of dms
from SDRs afterwards that are like, hey, you should buy
our stuff, Like we want to help you build the
brand for both of us, and then we trust it
over time.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
If we have educated you long enough that when you.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
Actually help building an ABM program, you'll probably call one
of us like. That's brand building versus sales activation, which
will walk through a bunch of examples, is like direct
outbound two book meetings to close deals.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's how I think about the difference.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Andre, do you have any perspective on like activation versus
brand building?

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I think you're pretty much nailted down. But the key
point is that prant is I would maybe give if
I will try to connect both worlds activation and prant
right prant is being considered as a strategic solution or
a priority solution to the challenge that you experience right now. Right.

(33:56):
So typically, whenever I experience and challenge, the first vendor
that comes to your mind was actually able to build
a brand, right, That's that's the key. So from the
activation perspective, it also means that when the when that
is PREMP actually sales, we'll see higher reply rate's, better

(34:19):
engagement with the bland committee group and hence small pipe
plan and close one deals. As simple as that.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
So that said, once we've actually gotten some activation playbooks running,
we're then going to rebalance marketing's budget to focus sixty
percent on brand building. So essentially that's to Andre's point,
being top of mind, being helpful, guiding your audience for
sometimes quarters or years at a time, and forty percent

(34:56):
will be focused on brand sales activation. Another way thinking
about this is like demand generation versus demand capture. Demand
capture is like how do we get built of book meetings? Now?
Demand generation is how do we build demand for our
services over time. Through this transition, sales can then actually
start to own and maintain and optimize their playbooks, and
then the goal of marketing is to build educational programs

(35:16):
that shift perspectives, frame the problems, and position the brand
as a solution. So when I think about brand strategy,
it is typically that like, how do we actually create
thought leadership and educational programs and help people actually think
through their problems Differently, I'm gonna get a lot of
kydos to Full Funnel. You guys do a great job
of building your brand. So like when you do the
Full Funnel Summit, and how many people did you have

(35:38):
register Andre for Full Funnel Summit this year?

Speaker 2 (35:43):
If you ask me, it was my ballpark, such a
five hundred.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
So thirty five hundred, Yeah, thirty five hundred people register
for Full Funnel Summit. Andre, I don't think you have
the goal of converting all thirty five hundred people. But
what you did have the goal of is you wanted
to be viewed as a thought leader in the space
that knows ABM program and ABM strategy incredibly well. And
as a results, you got a bunch of other experts

(36:12):
together and that that just association built your brand. Soman,
that's a great question as well. I'll actually walk through
here in just a moment where to make the transition.
But in short, we want to do this in such
a way that we peedable playbooks running so we can

(36:34):
make that shift and then inevitably sales only reaching out
to warmer and warmer audiences. As Andre already alluded to,
which is we came top of mind, they probably came
to us. They actually go ahead and loop in all
the right decision makers on that first call, and then
it moves a lot faster versus when it's a cold audience,
they typically gatekeep because there's not trust yet. So at
a high level, this is the scripting and what we're

(36:56):
looking for is how to actually align sales. So Andre,
you've got some great thought on specifically how to you
identify the right audiences to focus on.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Thank you so quick. Note guys, if you don't mind,
I saw a lot of questions about prant, but this strategy, sorry,
this session is about different topics that we can talk
with Mason about brand for many hours, but otherwise we
won't be able to finish what we have planned for today.
So if you don't mind, If I have these questions,

(37:28):
feel free just to the Amazon linked and I email
ask whatever prefer, but will stick to the collateral and
also feel free to post their questions and Q and
A so we won't lose them in the chat after
this point. Probably if you agreed with us, you might
be thinking it all makes sense, but where and how

(37:48):
should we start them? Right? So a few steps for
you how we typically solve this challenge was our clients.
The first thing that you need to do is you
need to c and your less inside your company to
form a change management team. You want it or not,
you need to initiate the change management. You work in silence.
You have all of these problems. You're mis aligned, right,

(38:11):
could be your fault, as Mason said, could be whatever,
It could be an organizational problem. That could be multiple reasons,
but it doesn't change the fact that you need to
initiate the change.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
How can you do it? You can't come to sales
and to your leadership and say, hey, you know from
today we're all miss aligned, we work in silence, and
we're going to change it from today. So we're going
to do this and that it never works like this
because you'll first of all, no change should be a
revolution for a team. Nobody likes revolutions, right, that's the

(38:42):
first thing. The second one most people would be like resistant,
they're not willing to change, and obvious. Well, like we
spoke about different, keep you it is the first thing
that sales would ask you. Okay, guys, but how it's
going to help me to hit my revenue and pipeline targets? Right? So,
if you can't present meanionful forecast, and honestly, if you

(39:04):
don't have if you have never done ABM and you
don't have benchmark, you will never be able to present
accurate forecast. It would be just an assumption out of
sain air. So never do it. Instead, what you need
to do is to find people who are willing to
change the existing status quod right to challenge it. So

(39:25):
this could be a sales rep who understands that the
current process is not efficient enough, because if it's efficient,
there is no way that you can change it right,
And then it would be a sales led organization. They
will be hidden the targets and that's it. But then
probably you won't be sitting on this weddinar, I guess.
So you need to find somebody who is not satisfied

(39:47):
with the approach, who understands that the thing should be
done differently right, And then you need to find a
subject matter expert, a person who deeply understands your primary
buyer persona right this would be the people with whom
you need to talk about your current approach, your go
to market challenges. Right, what's inefficient? Why? What are the

(40:08):
road reasons? That should be a friend conversation, right, not
just pretending that we're talking about high level stuff, but
it should be practical discussion and then defining these challenges
and identifying solutions how that could be changed. So if
I mean, if you don't have this practice and you

(40:28):
don't have framework for this, one of these things would
be audits and you go to market strategies your full
final lenses. I'm not referring to our company. I mean
that you look holistically at all stages of the bar
journey from awareness, how these bars become aware of vendors
or products like yours. Still the expansion, right, because a

(40:50):
lot of companies they think only in terms of awareness.
Still acquisition or most common just acquisition, right, and then
what happens next pays attention to client success and expansion.
But the simple truth is, if you want to build
a long term strategy, which Mason mentioned a couple of times, right,

(41:12):
you need to think holistically about extension of the relationship,
which means when you sell, especially if you sell enterprise accounts.
When you mark the ideal as closed one, the real
relationship just starts. And from this point you need to deliver.
And the faster you'll deliver, the more opportunities you'll have
for upsell or cross sell to this account. Right, so

(41:35):
you'll be able to grow your wallet of shell, which
means that ABM as you already guess, it's a cross
functional collaboration, right where you need to involve a couple
of people or a couple of roles. So we have
once created was what I mean. My co founder document
was twenty questions that you can use to audit your

(41:58):
go to market strategies. So if you wants, I mean,
you can see the screenshot on the slide, and if
you need slides, feel free to the mmy or if
you want just to have this document again, feel free
to email or send me a message and linked then
I will send it to you. And that just goes
through these questions. Maybe you don't need to answer all
twenty questions, right, but just feel free to select those

(42:20):
ones that are most important. Of those ones, that's reasonate
with your current go to market challenges and you find
areas you need to improve right, because the change management
starts from accepting the problem right. This is the first
thing that you need to present to your stakeholders and

(42:40):
the second question that you might be reciven from your
stakeholders and sales leadership as well. Okay, but why changing
right now? Right? So you need to present the cost
of an action. So what happens if you're not going
to do anything? That's why when you do this analysis,
you don't only need answers to the questions. For example,
we don't have enough applies to our outbound of cost

(43:05):
of acquisition is growing. Uh, this won't be helpful without data.
So the next thing that you need to do is
you need to back it by data and also look
at where if you are going to change, where you
are likely to have success. The first thing with the
change is trying on the pilot program. It should be
small scope program, sometimes just enough to involve three roles

(43:30):
that I have mentioned you as marketing, your subject matter expert,
and sales right, and it could be very light version
of APM. But you do with this program, you develop
the prototype of your product. Sorry program, you need to
create proof of concept and you try multiple things without

(43:50):
involving all other sources. You don't need to officially, you know,
announce it as an ABM program. It would be just
as an experiment at this moment. But you need to
prove that it works. And to make sure that it works,
you need to identify areas where you are likely to
have success. Right, So it's always good to see what
verticals you have success, what verticals and what articles your

(44:12):
problem the revenue or quite often we look at the
same data by from the use case perspective, right, because
if you have multiple use cases that belong to multiple verticals,
it's much better to focus, let's say, on your flagship
use case and create a program around this. Next, define
key improvement areas. Right as we spoke, when you identify

(44:36):
what you want to improve. We want to improve reply rates.
We want to improve personalization. We feel we never do
we never did appropriate personalization. We want to improve the
quality of our content. Our content let's say it's just
product oriented, like heavily vendor oriented, and we want to
make educational content to create awareness among our time get accounts. Right,

(45:01):
So you build these requirements for your program. Next, reasoning
that's really important. I have already highlighted this was out
reasoning your program is likely not to be approved, right,
And the sales leader because anyhow you would say, Okay,
I'm going to run this experiment with this SDR account executive.

(45:22):
Still you need to get the approval and without given
the reasoning, it's likely not to happen. And last saying
that you'll see it's the last question that you'll hear. Okay,
but how well know that we actually improved it? So
you need to define good measurements here? Right? So how
do they know that the improvement actually happened? That's the key.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Next, Yeah, we might.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
So when I asked the question earlier, like how do
you know when to strike the balance from enablement back
to brand building? And we've got a lot of examples,
I'm going to go ahead and just jump to the top
recommendations that I would make because I think everyone has
this data in their CRM.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
So one would be website engagement.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
So if you already cookied people and you've got a
basic integration set between your website traffic and your CRM,
you can actually see who's already on your website, so
that are already on your website looking at high intent pages,
surfacing that to sales typically results in a higher level
of conversion. Additionally, looking at champion tracking. So the idea
of champion tracking comes from the idea that you have
customers that have moved from one job to another.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
You can actually see this through.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Some relatively duct taped ways, but an easy way to
do it is if you're sending out a weekly or
monthly newsletter to your customers. You looked at the bounced
email addresses, and then you compare bounced email addresses up
against LinkedIn changes. Regardless of whether I use that for
outbound to surface that for your customer success team is
also massively then official so they can even see mainfluence
of contact that may have made a move. Additionally, event activation,

(46:54):
I am shocked by a number of organizations that don't
do some form of a pre event outreach. I try
to get fifty to sixty percent of my anticipated meetings
before I even take off on a flight. That way,
I know that my events will always be ROI positive,
and that still these room for serendipitting. And the next
thing is just missed meetings like re engaging with marketing programs.
Missed meetings these people showed specific intent and opportunities and

(47:18):
they didn't show up for some reason. How do we
re engage that audience and that account in and of itself.
I'm not going to go through all of the opportunity bucket,
but in short, deal stages can function as triggers for
marketing programs. And the example I would like to give
is I've had three sales conversations in the past eighteen months.
I've spoken to three CFOs, but in every single one

(47:40):
of my sales conversations, the CFO or the board is involved.
I just don't get access to them as a seller,
but I do get access as a marketer. For some reason,
a camera has decided to quit working on me, so
we'll keep rolling with it. But in short, that is opportunities,
and then lastly, we just be customers. What I have
found is that more often than not, my target accounts
or friends with the target accounts. So if I can

(48:01):
engage specifically people that are already customers and get them
to make introductions to my target accounts, that typically is
a win for me. And that is not crazy difficult
to actually identify. You just go through their LinkedIn connections
and then as a result, you can more easily find
people that you actually want to speak with.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
So there's my camera back all right, continuing to roll
with it.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Goodness, gracious and lines. Got a lot of technology. Here's
how I think through specifically structuring these programs. So for starters,
it's data, so data is just simply here plus why
we're reaching out. Then it's distribution, which is how to
get in front of them. Then it's destination, which is
what are we sending them to you, and then lastly
is direction. I have a lot more content on this,
but first there's a time. Here's a TLDR version of

(48:43):
it that I think makes it really easy to understand.
If you want more, we've got some templates. Feel free
to shoot me a DM.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
And the last thing is when you marry the activation playbook.
I think of those are the tactics.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
And then many of you have already asked like okay,
where's the appropriate balance and blend here. I think of
a lot of these activation playbooks at that sales nablement
stage as way later stage of.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Re engagement MQA SQA.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
So if you build a lot of programming there for
good fit customers that if you use Andre's templatezer, We've
got some of our own on how to identify good customers.
If you can go ahead and convert those good customers
into pipeline today, you can then go build brand programs
that connect into those same playbooks. So essentially, if you
think about it as an account progression, build your conversion

(49:29):
programming and then go build awareness programs that drive more
people into conversion programs.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
That is the high level.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
There is a ton of stuff that we could talk
through on this, but I want to go ahead and pass.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
It back to Andre. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
Absolutely, just want to make sure that we're finished at
one time and cover a couple of questions. First of all,
when you finish this strategic preparation that Mason shared, that
should be two things in place. First, again, I would
love to remind what Mason has radio said. You need
to create it to the sales and make it visual

(50:04):
so they at least see the key stages. Maybe. I mean,
if you a real north you can dive deep and
create super complex infographics, but sometimes it's just enough to
keep it simple, right, and here the kind of the
core stages and highlighted. What would be the role of
marketing or what would be let's say market and owned activities,
and what would the sales owned activities. Right, and the

(50:27):
most important thing, Like I said, in most cases, this
change and this pilot once come as a substitution to
your current duties and responsibilities and programs that you are running.
Hence you need to build on this. You need to
incorporate your existent marketing needs. Right, you're going to run
the webinar, think how to make it account based sek

(50:48):
how to bring the target accounts that you have selected
together with sales to this webinar? And what would be
the post webinar What should be the pre webinar engagement?
What should be the post webinar engagement? Just to keep
it simple, right, don't try to create a completely separate
silent program. You already have silence in your organization. Don't
make it even more silence if you will. So that's

(51:11):
the first thing and the second one. When you co
create this program, explain and create on sales and responsibilities
in a future pilot. Just make sure that they clearly
understand what they are supposed to do and in ideal scenario,
run a prototype of these activities. If they're supposed to

(51:31):
invite target accounts to the webinar, what would be the script?
What would be the channels used for example, email or
linked or how that should be personalized if you want.
I mean obviously I'm not going to send standard emails, right,
how you're going to personalize? What data do you need
for this? Whom you're going to reach out to? So
make sure that you all are aligned on these responsibilities

(51:55):
and activities without any so just to avoid any surprises future, right,
keep in mind the goal. I always share this quote.
It was once shared by VP of marketing of one
of our clients. She said, the goal of the pilot
ab On program is an evolution, not an evolution in
terms of change for a team. That's the key. Next,

(52:17):
you need to craft a framework, right and basically if
I mentioned a couple of times and was Mason was
shared that there should be activation in place, that should
be awareness, et cetera. I would love to just highlight
six essential pillars. We call it six a framework, So
six essential pillars you need to include in your playbook.

(52:39):
The first one would be the account selection. You don't,
as we spoke, don't apply opportunistic of which list building approach,
right you find in best case scenario, analyze your best deals. Again,
Mason just shared this I don't want to dive deeper
analyze your best deals and define the patterns of these

(53:01):
accounts what make them a good fit? Right? What qualification
criteria can you identify from these deals and what would
be the disqualification createra. The key is just to make
it tangible. Avoid any ambiguity. So anybody in the organization
could apply this criteria and tell is it a qualified
or not qualified account without God feeling that's important, right,

(53:22):
this should be tangible. Next, accounts segmentation. Obviously all of
the accounts that you're going to select would be on
different stages of the buyer journey.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Some accounts might be in market, but they have no
idea who you are and what you do, right, and
they might completely ignore you know, if that would be
just only outreage, they might completely ignore it.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Right.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Some accounts might fit your qualification criteria, right, and maybe
some from the somebody from the band committee engaged with you,
but you have actually no idea what are their ongoing needs,
what are the challenges? Right, and if they're in the
market or all. So from this perspective, you always need

(54:06):
to categorize your segment your accounts, and we prefer to
segment them into stree markets basically clusterized the called accounts
that fit your qualification criteria, but they don't know you,
and you have no idea what are there needs? Future
pipe plan the accounts that engaged with you again Mason
share it that creates light on how to identify this

(54:26):
but you don't know if they're in the market and
what are the needs?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Hence, here you invest in the band committee mat on
Bank Committee engagement and account research and active focus. These
accounts know you, you know them, you have some relationship
with the band committee members, and you have enough product
need evidence, you have enough insights that tell you that
this account has a need and your product, and you
work on fully personalized programs to sell or basically to

(54:53):
create a sales opportunity with this account. Next, account research
obviously it shouldn't be just a lot of companies nowadays
that account research is just you know, pulling the website.
You are all of this accountant that chog GPT and
task to run in depth research. If that's it that
you collect, then you'll be running the same message and
the same outbound let's say emails as your competitors. Right,

(55:16):
and yet would be the same. So in depth research
is happening on several layers. First of all account research,
and then you can collect the publicly available information and
then the band committey research, which means who are the
people who might be involved in the deal, what would
be their role, what are their current KPIs, what their goals,
challenges needs, et cetera. You might put out the organizational

(55:38):
level to the strategic initiatives of this account and what
would be really important here aside from the standard information
that you can get from multiple sources, and today was
a yeah, you can get it in seconds like team
size or money raised, whatever, right open positions. This is
today it's more or less a commodity information to behind

(56:00):
everybody can access. What is my essential is to sit
down together with seals and identify what are the critical
questions or what are the critical pieces of information that
we must know about this account to be able to
create fully personalized offer. And in most cases these insights
you will be able to gain only via direct engagement

(56:23):
with these people, only when you hear from them, right,
So that would be the most essential insights for your
account research. Next, account awareness, how are you going to
create awareness? And these accounts. What are you going to
do prochep display ads or programmatic ads and mail out
bound and not awareness channels?

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Right?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
You need to define what will help to actually create
engagement with the buying committee members, What will educate them,
what will not show them, what will challenge their status quo? Right? Next,
account development? How are you going to create sales opportunities
with this account? How you go and to warm up
the buying committee? How you going to start the conversations

(57:04):
with them? How you going to collect these insights? Right?
That's essential for you to create fully personalized offers and
plus the account activation. Again, Maison already shared this. So
how you going to create fully personalized let's say offers, solutions, proposals,
business cases. But I will call it to create sales
opportunity with these accounts?

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Right?

Speaker 2 (57:25):
That's the key, the most important part. You won't be
able to do it alone. You need to create a
cross functional ABM team. Again, and naturally, you need to
define how much time. Don't what my recommendation here is,
don't try to pretend that you'll have more time in future.
That will never happen. Look at your current capacity. Identify

(57:48):
what a serial list and how much time you all
will be able to dedicate to this pilot because quite
often we hear a question how many accounts can we
engage an ABM, But when I ask how much time
can you dedicate to it? Then you see immediate mismatch.
So identify what as realistic to be spent on this

(58:09):
program right, and then what would be the key activities
that's the key, and then make sure that everybody accepts
these responsibilities. That would be the key to prepare your
pilot program. And one thing again, just to highlight this,
Mason already shared the problem with the KPIs. The key

(58:29):
is that when you're going to present this program, fully
designed program with the responsibilities right, with the timeline, with
the key activities that you're going to run, make sure
that there are right expectations and that you're going to
measure the right KPIs as well. Spoke different accounts would
be sitting in different segments right based on the probability

(58:51):
of creating opportunities with them, and you need to apply
right KPIs to measure the progress with these accounts. If
this are completely called the accounts right who have no
idea who you are, don't expect sales opportunities coming in
if you sell cycle and so let's say twelve months,
don't think that in the next quarta magically ABM will

(59:11):
generate full pipeline with these accounts. Make sure that you
define the right indicators. Again, that's the goal. To define
the indicators first would be sitting with your let's say
elis with your pilot team and discuss on the kpe
ice was them and then present them to the leadership.
And let's move to the last part.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
Yeah, I now we've got maybe thirty seven seconds. So
in short, when we talk about money, I always put
this in quotes because ABM is a marketing program that
aims to align people on the vision and the objectives
of the business, and then we people build at a
sales complaint, we incritedi sellers to take action to the

(59:53):
line with the vision and objections of the business.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
Many marketing programs and tailed complaints don't align. And forgive me,
for whatever reason, my camera just doesn't want to work
at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
So I'll make this really short and simple and sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
If you have a comp plan that it's aligned with
business objectives and a marketing plan that's aligned with business objectives,
but sales isn't incentivized to close opportunities that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Marketing is delivering.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Either marketing or sales or both aren't aligned on business objectives.
So here are the three question to ask. One, do
you know how your sellers make their commissions? It doesn't
have to be exactly the dollar amount. But are they
bonus based on a number of deals? Are they bonus
based on the percentage of the deal? Are they bonused

(01:00:38):
differently depending on different kinds of organizations. You just need
to understand that to the best of your ability, if
you can do the math with them or develop a
template for them that they can then plug in some
specific numbers based on that, can you actually show them
much more money they would make? And then the last
thing is, to the best of your ability, if you
can get exact numbers, does the math actually work out?

(01:01:00):
Because that doesn't work, why would you expect them to
work with you? This is relatively simple. Let's supposed be
a gift and didn't pan out, But just show me
the money. Like, it's really easy to get sales blought
in when you can show them the money. So, if
you've built sales activation playbooks that build the pipeline, and
you built targeted programs that further drive right accounts into

(01:01:21):
your sales activation playbooks, but you still can't get aligned
with sales. It's likely a problem that can only be
solved by your executive team by shifting how they compensate sales.
So at a certain point, if you've exhausted everything that
you personally can do, there is a point where it
is actually not your fault. But I don't want to
start there. I want to start with all this other stuff.

(01:01:42):
So Andre, where can people learn more?

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Yeah, so just the last section because probably you guys
all those have questions wherever can dive deep into the stuff.
First of all, we'll also spoke was flat. We see
this like in the first half of twenty twenty five.
We see the continuous requests that mentioned the same challenges.
Unbound pipeline keeps declining, and unbound leads and predictable sales

(01:02:12):
complaining about law having a potential marketing leads are difficult
to turn into pipeline and win the problem with the alignment, etc. So,
if you're at this stage where you want to initiate
the change management and you believe that you can, let's say,
find elis inside your organization, but you need to create

(01:02:32):
the approach how to do this was what was spoken.
To provide a free strategy sessions to these teams. So
if that sounds interesting for you, feel free to them
on linked and not just reply to one of the
emails with the webinar reminder. So we are going to
help you with mapping out the let's say change management

(01:02:55):
plan and highlight on the steps for you and what
data you might need to obtain on how to present
the leaderships. He'll be able to run the ABM program.
And then just a couple of things, we have our
full final ABM on the man of course, where we're
diving deep into all of the points that we were
discussing today. So this is the qure code. If you'd

(01:03:15):
like to learn more or if you kind of prefer
free content, that's also fine. Feel free to subscribe to
our weekly news letter on substack. And let's uh, let's
cover a couple of questions that's uh we have I
see you already answered them in the chat. Uh do

(01:03:37):
my best one?

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
This one for me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
For I mean, if you're still here, The long and
short that I would recommend is you're not going to uh,
you're not going to typically day one upon launching a
playbook see an immediate pipeline. We have had a couple
of clients where that was the case, like they launched
a playbook towards close lost and like one email was
sent and then they got like four meetings.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Like that does happen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
But what I find is once you've gotten four or
five six playbooks, this is intentionally a six month intensive
once that's fully built out. Like if you have a
repeatable playbook for closed loss event activation, website re engagement,
referral programs, customer of sales, pipeline acceleration, those are all
repeatable playbooks. If you have those things running, then you

(01:04:25):
should be able to make that transition over back towards
specifically sales or sorry, brand building because those things will
can be run towards good fit accounts. So that's my
recommendation if just get the playbooks running and then over
time they'll be able to be continuously optimized.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Awesome, I said have covered that pretty much overis And
how did you like the webinar? Guys? Let us know
in the chat sor feedback from Daniel. Thank you amazing content.
Thank you love the answer. Thank you so much. Cool,

(01:05:04):
appreciate a lot your feedback guys, and just to let
you know, we're going to make a summer pouse. We're
actually scheduled how many more webinars? Three more webinars with you, right,
so we're going because yeah, three more webinars with Mason
on different topics related to ABM. The next one would

(01:05:26):
be somewhere closer to the beginning of September if I'm cracked,
then a new one closer to the Christmas eve and
one and Q one of twenty twenty six, so stay tuned.
There would be lots of things to cover, and in
August we're actually going to break the summer pause with

(01:05:46):
the new webinars. Appreciate your feedback guys, and Mayson, thanks
a lot for cocating this with me and FOCA hoasting
it today. I think it was an amazing experience.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Yeah, thank you Andrew so much for ask some We're
looking forward to doing the next one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Thank you all. Have a great Simara hat and stay
tuned with the future updates. Cheers, take care everyone,

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 166: Misaligned Despite Our Best Intention. How to fix the marketing and sales silos with ABM with Mason Cosby

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Episode 166: Misaligned Despite Our Best Intention. How to fix the marketing and sales silos with ABM with Mason Cosby

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