August 28, 2023 • 39 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Functional Medicine and Natural
Healing Podcast, where we sharethe secrets to upgrade your
digestion, improve your hormones, restore your immune system and
detoxify your body.
I'm your host, dr HoustonAnderson.
Now let's get started.
The following discussion is foreducational purposes only.
It is not intended to diagnoseor treat any disease or disease
(00:24):
process.
Please discuss any medicaltreatments or medical
interventions with your personalphysician.
Hi guys, welcome back to thepodcast.
I'm Dr Houston Anderson.
I'm here with Dr Gabe and weare excited today to talk about
a common problem in the officecalled a leaky gut.
So a lot of people know whatleaky gut is.
So we'll kind of go in depthabout some things that people
(00:45):
know and then we'll also coversome of the basics so you really
understand why you probablyhave this and what to go about.
What's new with you today, drGabe?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Just hanging out at home.
It's a casual day for mebecause we're getting ready to
move, so moving boxes, fillingthose all sorts of fun and games
with that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, I'm actually glad that we're doing this
together right now, because Iprobably would have skipped out
on today because we got a lotgoing on too.
But that is what it is andwe'll keep going.
So let's talk about someonethinks they have leaky gut or
doesn't know what it is.
But leaky gut pretty muchexists in most patients.
But how do you see it walkingyour door?
(01:26):
What do people say when theywalk in?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I almost kind of like what you said.
I assume anyone walking inprobably has it just because
it's so prevalent, but usuallythey will have some sort of gut
issue.
But they don't always have tohave a gut issue.
You could have some neurologicthing just as simple as anxiety
tend to worry depression,because when you have leaky gut
you also have leaky brain, whichwe can get into that.
(01:50):
But generally speaking, to makeit really simple and
straightforward bloatingindigestion, definitely some gut
disturbance going on because oflocalized inflammation.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, and I was a traditional medicine doesn't
ever go to leaky gut.
There's the discrepancy betweenhow they describe it, meaning
technically, in the research.
If you guys want to go do allthe research that supports the
things that we talked abouttoday, it's really under the
word intestinal permeability.
So if you go and tell your GIdoc, hey, I've got leaky gut,
they kind of laugh at you andyou don't really get too far.
So they kind of kick you out,saying like maybe you have
(02:27):
anxiety because you're afraid ofthat.
And you probably do haveanxiety because, like you said,
there's that leaky gut brainconnection.
So, I think that's a big one.
I think I'll talk really quickto what happens if you go to
your doctor's office and you dohave intestinal permeability or
you think you have it.
The problem with this is onceagain like so I always say I'm a
chiropractor, I train, althoughI do functional medicine all
(02:47):
the time why doesn't our GIdoctor solve this problem for us
?
And the reason why is becausethere's not a definitive test
that they can run.
So we have all kinds of likezonulin occlusion tests.
You can do urine, you can doblood, you can do LPS tests, you
can do different endotoxintests, but at the end of the day
, none of them are definitive.
And the problem with it is thatwhat they find in the research
(03:08):
is, if you run the test, youcould feel better and the tests
are worse, or the tests couldget better and you could feel
worse, and that's the bigdiscrepancy in research.
Hence why your doctor reallydoesn't have a ton of actionable
steps to give to you from themedical or medicine perspective,
because they don't want toprescribe a drug for a, maybe,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No.
I completely agree with that forsure.
That's one of the main issues.
There's nothing they can doabout it.
So what's the point of runningany sort of guess on it?
Because, like you said, there'sa couple of tests out there and
there's zonulin.
They're starting to find bettertests on that but generally
speaking, it's an indirect test.
And then what do they do withit in the end?
(03:49):
Because I mean, when we getinto it leaky gut, as much as we
often hear about it being aroot cause usually something
causes it in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it's not really, that's pretty funny to go over.
Eventually, I guess right,what's a real root cause?
Maybe we'll have a wholeepisode on just what is a root
cause.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd begood.
So what's the differencebetween?
Like someone walks into youroffice I just said the medical
doctors often don't haveanything to do Like someone
comes into your office.
What can you look at from thenatural perspective?
What tools do you have that youcan use, that maybe they
(04:19):
wouldn't use?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So, from a natural perspective, of course, just
having the paradigm where we'relooking at things a little bit
differently, where we areabsolutely looking for a root
cause, to bring that up again.
So that would be one of themain ones.
So, as somebody comes in, I'masking questions in regards to
all their symptoms, and in thiscase we're kind of focused so
(04:42):
much on the gut.
So I'm wanting to figure out,ok, what is going on, why are
you having these problems, andif leaky gut is involved, how
I'm going to go about testingfor that specifically still
going to be kind of indirect,because we're not necessarily
wanting to treat that directly.
We're wanting to treat what'scausing it, and so it probably
(05:05):
helps to go into the physiologyof what leaky gut is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So yeah, before we get too deep into that, I say
that's the biggest thing I see.
When people walk into my officethey come in, they're on a
probiotic, a prebiotic, an omegafish oil, and what's the last
one?
Everyone gets vitamin D, rightand those four things and
they're saying like hey, mydoctor gave me a leaky gut
protocol and I'm like that'spretty much a general health
protocol, not a specific gutprotocol.
(05:31):
And then oftentimes, like I'll,steve, I'm going to call it a
beginner protocol and if yourdoctor is a beginner I'm sorry,
but like they're doingmarshmallow roux and stinging
nettle and all these newsalaginous nutrients that
essentially cover the gut liningthat protects you a little bit
from a lot of the main causes,but they're not really digging
deep enough to really see thatresolution.
(05:52):
And what happens whenever youdo kind of like a bandaid mucus
membrane support is that youdon't get the results Right.
So I treated gut like almostexclusively for about four years
because it was just the easiestthing to market, to be
straightforward, like everyonehad it and no one was fixing it,
and so I just brought a ton ofit into the office.
But you know, we've kind ofexpanded obviously beyond that
(06:13):
because the gut isn't that hard.
There's so much more after that.
But yeah, why don't you explainto someone how they might kind
of develop this leaky gut?
And what does leaky gut mean?
Because as soon as you sayleaky gut, everyone thinks
they're like bleeding to death,right?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You're right.
You're right.
I mean and just to kind of addto your point a little bit too
like glutamine.
Glutamine is like everything.
Anyone comes in with leaky gut.
They're on glutamine protocoljust to heal the gut.
But the thing that I explainedto my patients that they're
always surprised with is howquick the gut heals.
Yeah, it's like three days andthe cells replace themselves.
(06:46):
And so many people aresurprised.
Really, what you need to do isget rid of what's breaking down
those cells, and so that getsinto the physiology of leaky gut
, and I like to liken it to acastle because I think that's
the easiest way to kind ofenvision this.
You have a single layer ofcells that line your gut that's
protecting you essentially fromeverything you're putting into
(07:08):
your gut.
So in that sense, you're beingable to consume whatever food,
whatever you're drinking oranything like that, and you have
this single layer between youand your immune system and your
bloodstream.
And most of your immune systemlies in your gut, like 80%, and
so the way I look at it is thatcell layer is the castle wall.
You have bacteria and otherthings that live in your gut.
(07:30):
That kind of create this mucousmembrane, which is another
protective thing, and you cankind of think of that like a
castle note.
And then, of course, thearchers and everything else that
are the soldiers behind it areyour immune system, and so what
happens is you're exposed topesticides or, besides, you're
exposed to heavy metals, foodintolerances and pathogens, or
(07:51):
maybe you're overfeeding certainmicroorganisms inside your gut
that end up breaking down thiswall, and instead of having
these draw bridges only open atparticular times, instead
they're blowing holes in thewhole system or they're
activating those draw bridgeswhen they shouldn't be.
So.
It's that draw bridge thatallows things into the castle,
(08:12):
and so now you have holes inyour wall.
The draw bridge is open.
That's what leaky gut is.
It's increased permeability,things that shouldn't be getting
past that wall or getting pastit.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I love it.
I love it and I would say, liketypical symptoms of this leaky
gut, like we talked aboutbloating and stuff like that,
just reactions to anything,right, whether it's
environmental.
I mean I get that all the time.
People are like, oh well, I'mallergic to all the trees in
Arizona.
I'm like, well, that's notreally a thing, right.
So now you might haveenvironmental allergies and
definitely those can irritategut linings and things like that
(08:45):
, but if you come in as likeevery tree around your house
you're allergic to, that'sanother sign that maybe you have
that leaky gut story going on.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah ragweed that's the common one here where
I'm at and like, it just hitragweed season and so everyone
is having a hard time withragweed.
But and then we just think,okay, I'm going to take that
over the counter anti-histaminethe entire time, instead of
actually figuring it out.
Oh, maybe my body is having areally hard time handling all
this.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yeah, just thinking about justanything getting from the
external world into the bloodstream is a problem.
Hence where we have such severereactions, hence where we start
to develop pretty much everysymptom that walks into our
office, from eczema and brainfog to other things like I don't
(09:34):
even autoimmune disease, justthe more severe things.
But from even, like anytimesomething goes from the food or
the environment and passesthrough that barrier that you're
talking about.
That's when pretty much everyhealth problem starts.
So let's go into, like, some ofthe root causes, right?
So we said we don't want tojust band aid that gut lining,
we want to figure out why in theworld there's a hole in the gut
(09:56):
lining first.
All right, so, doc, what causessome of this main leaky gut
stuff that's going on?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
All right.
So I mentioned a few of them.
Diet in general let's startthere because that's probably
the simple one.
The standard American diet Lotsof sugar, lots of processed
food and that sort of thing isgoing to cause leaky gut just
from it and of itself.
Sugar processed foods are goingto break down that gut lining.
They're going to break downthat mucous membrane or the
(10:23):
mucous layer that we havesitting there, and then it's
going to allow things to getthrough.
It's also going to not provideenough nutrition so that your
immune system is even workingwell, or the protein to replace
the cells in your gut.
So now you're having thismalnutrition and then further
some inflammatory foods that aregetting in.
That's breaking down.
(10:43):
The other ones are just your owngut bacteria or fungus that
live in your gut.
So, like candida, albicans, weall have that.
So if we eat too much sugar,it's going to overgrow.
If you have other certainbacteria that live in your gut
because you're eating certainfoods, the more you feed it, the
more it grows, the more that isin your gut.
(11:04):
That can easily lead tobreakdown of this barrier.
Otherwise there's pathogens,and pathogens are the ones that
aren't supposed to be there thatget in.
So we all have a certain amountof E coli in our large
intestine, but it shouldn't bein our small intestine.
Then there's certain E coli,you just shouldn't have any.
So that's one.
Of course, other food what'sthe word?
(11:29):
I've already lost it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like infections like.
Shigella or Salmonella orsomething like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Food poisoning yeah, shigella, the Salmonella.
The other one that I thought ofwas C diff.
Another thing that is a hugeissue and of course, whenever I
was a nurse I saw a lot of that,to the point that I can
recognize the smell anytime butC diff is a huge issue.
From hospitals or other carefacilities that's where you get
(11:59):
C diff usually.
Of course, there's other thingsthat you can definitely get in
you that are just pathogenic,but those are probably the main
ones I think we would see interms of the gut.
Of course there's things youget like vector-borne, like Lyme
disease and other things likethat, but that's a little bit
different presentation.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, I think the only thing I'll throw out here
in addition is the concept ofdysbiosis.
We don't really have that inour show notes here anywhere,
but essentially the way thatthat gut stays happy and leaky
gut doesn't exist all the timeis.
We're trying to keep some kindof balance between the good guys
and the bad guys.
It's not really about quantityof good guys.
(12:40):
I think that's the oldprobiotic myth.
If we add a ton of good guys,all of a sudden all the bad guys
disappear and clinically Iwould say I think it's true for
both of us.
We don't really see that happen.
You don't just add a bunch ofprobiotics and everyone
instantly gets better.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, it would be nice, that'd be simple.
But yeah, no, it usually is thebandaid, like you were saying.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, and even then.
So I'll tell you this becauseI'm pretty blatant about not
using probiotics in my officeand when people say what about
my probiotic, I say no.
What about my prebiotic?
I say no.
And the reason why is becausewhat I found clinically is I was
running into the problem wherepeople would come in I would
come up with this magicaltreatment protocol and then they
call me in a week and say I'mnot better.
(13:22):
And early in practice I waslike okay, let's try this, let's
try this, let's try this.
And always the thing that waskeeping the people that didn't
get better rapidly from gettingbetter was their probiotic.
So I was like what else are youtaking?
And they're like nothing.
I mean, I am taking a probioticfor my gut health, of course,
and I would pull that one outand you would see at least 40%
(13:44):
of that 50% get better within aweek and you're like, oh man.
So the problem is this there'sthousands of strains, there's a
lot of options, there's 50different top probiotics you can
buy, but it's really hard todial that in and I even remember
different practitioners.
So Dr A Stillsmith in the UK.
He makes individual strains butyou find that people switch
(14:06):
strains that they need as quickas like two, three days, right.
So it's hard to stay on top ofthat, unless you want to go see
your doctor every three days andpay a pretty penny for that,
just for maintaining yourprobiotic, which you're maybe
over obsessed with.
That.
Yeah, not giving you the homerun or the root level issue that
you're trying to address.
Remember that pathogens that DrGave just talked about those
(14:28):
are the guys that are causingthe problem.
Now there is research thatprobiotics do help with those
pathogens, but we don't findthat they're the strongest way
to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
No, no, I agree with that too.
So I think we've had thisconversation in the past.
It's like when somebody askedme what they should do for
probiotics, I'm like get it fromyour food, yeah.
So I think you have goodorganic food which is going to
get to some of the other causesof leaky gut, but eat good
organic food.
You guys are lucky.
In Arizona you can buy raw milkin the store, so if you're not
(14:56):
a dairy sensitive, you can getit there.
I mean, here we can go to thefarm and get it.
There's a lot of ways to getprobiotics in just food form.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yep, totally agree.
So I think we covered well, wecovered the poor standard
American diet, but I think otherdietary factors is, if you're
suffering from a lot of gutstuff, lower grains.
I think we get that questionall the time.
What's your favorite diet?
I don't know.
I usually say like some kind ofpaleo base, right, yeah, paleo
base is an idea and then startrefining for how you feel while
(15:27):
you eat it.
But yes, definitely all theprocessed, refined grains, all
the additional sugars, all thehigh fructose corn syrup which
your actual cells of your gutcan't really tolerate very well.
So all of that stuff is kind ofstuff that just contributes to
this problem on a daily basisand you're trying to get rid of
the major guys like pathogens,as well as that daily irritant.
(15:49):
So we don't use a lot of fiber.
That's another good one.
We have a low fiber diet inAmerica, but I don't use a lot
of fiber supplements becausemost of the time people already
have enough irritation that afiber supplement will also
aggravate their symptoms thatthey already have.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
No, I think you're 100% there with the fiber.
It's so common people beingtold to eat a high fiber diet or
metamucil or whatever it isthat they're needing to bring
into their food or into theirdiet itself, and that is
problematic.
And I mean even research kindof shows that with fiber.
We don't have a lot of studieson fiber, which surprises people
(16:23):
, and the one study that Iremember reading that we do have
shows that a no fiber dietactually helped the most for
people who were struggling withconstipation and IBS, which was
interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I don't know.
I've seen that one.
That is cool.
Well, give me an example ofsome of the food intolerances
you see in your office.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
most common so gluten by far is always number one.
I think I see that one.
The most common Dairy, probablytied with several others.
So dairy nightshades are theother.
One Nightshade family, if noone knows what that is, is your
tomato pepper eggplant group.
It's a pain in the neck.
I always feel bad whenever thatone comes up Just because it is
(17:04):
hard.
Corn is another major one, Soyand egg those are probably the
big, big ones and it's also theones that you're going to see.
If you're familiar with AIPdiet, which is a paleo diet,
that's a little bit more strict.
They remove those things forautoimmune Just because we're
seeing this causing leaky gut,which then can easily turn into
(17:25):
an autoimmune type flair.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
For sure.
Right that path, not thepathogen, but the food gets into
the bloodstream.
The body overreacts to thatfood that's in the bloodstream
and now you have lots ofinflammation and it just goes
everywhere.
And the question is, whatorgans susceptible to damage at
that time?
What other?
Maybe you're someone that'salways had a liver gallbladder
issue.
Now you have the leaky gut.
It makes that flare because ofthe inflammation and you think
that it's.
(17:48):
And so this is actuallyinteresting because we talk
about, like what's the chickenor the A?
What comes first in thatscenario.
You had a gallbladder problemfirst, for example, and then you
got the leaky gut, which thenexacerbated your gallbladder
problem, and then now you'restuck in this tough spot of like
I have a severe gallbladderproblem now and a leaky gut.
What do I do?
First?
And it's just about teasing itout and figuring out what's
going to help the patient themost.
Anything you want to say onpesticides and herbicides Is
(18:12):
this in all our food.
We can't avoid it.
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So I mean, as best as possible, you're going to eat
organic and that's within reason.
Usually what I tell people,especially those who are new to
this world, is go to the dirtydozen lists and I give them
EWG's website and have them gothere and look at the dirty
dozen.
The dirty dozen are the 12fruit and vegetables that have
the worst pesticides.
(18:36):
Number one right now for awhile has been strawberries.
Strawberries are really bad.
So getting those organic localis always best, because then you
can talk to the farmer and knowwhat they're doing, because
even with organic, there arecertain practices that aren't
the best.
But you just do the best youcan because it is a battle and
you got to pick your battle.
(18:56):
So the best thing is that,because I mean, if you start
thinking about everyenvironmental toxin that you are
dealing with, you're going tobe surprised by even our
clothing.
It's everywhere that you'regoing to be running into some of
this stuff, and so what isgoing to be the best thing for
your butt?
Generally speaking, go to thedirty dozen first, start working
(19:18):
towards organic, gettingpasture, raised meat and that
sort of thing will get you alongthose ways.
But with my patients I'm alwaysworking a day at a time, though
sometimes I like to pull thebandaid off completely at once,
depending on the need and ifthey're willing.
But yeah, they are everywhere.
Water would be the next one.
(19:39):
Usually I'm telling them youneed to filter your water or get
it from, say, like naturalgrocers, which is what we have
here local and you can get some,or you can get some RO reverse
osmosis water.
There I use a Berkey right now,and then when we get our new
house I'll be looking intoprobably doing a whole house
filter or something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
So yeah, I mean that's andthat's always a hard one.
I mean I'm not going to throwout a brand that I think is the
best for RO water.
That's just a really hard oneto do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's all about the strengths and weaknesses right.
Yep, even the Berkey, likeBerkey, has its strengths and
weaknesses.
It's just the one that we choseto do for ease, while we are
living in apartments.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and I will tell you that, that our well water
comes out crystal clear and whenit freezes I always tell people
like you can tell if your wateris really good.
When it freezes, your ice cubesare clear.
It means this still has energy,is still structured as well, as
I mean it doesn't, doesn'tcount the mineral content, but
you test your water there.
But, yeah, obviously, citywater is going to be pretty
garbage.
(20:39):
Right, I live in the city, butour place out that has the has
the well.
That's like awesome water toexist in.
I just don't get it as often.
So, yeah, we're doing RO at ourhouse too.
Okay, let's talk about stress.
I think I think I'll coverstress really quick and then
I'll get some comments on Ithink I think stress is
something that I'm mostconcerned about in a chronic
(21:00):
nature.
But I did see a study wherethey actually they proved that
if they over exercise you for aperiod of time as short as like
eight hours and you get no sleep, that you will develop
intestinal permeability fromexercise alone.
So I think about all the peoplethat are like oh, I got to lose
weight, I got to lose weight,but even that, that's a whole,
that's a whole subset, but thereality is, most people that
walk into our offices are mildanxiety cases and once again,
(21:26):
your job as as the patient, tofigure out is it stress causing
the leaky gut or did the leakygut cause stress?
So let's say that you had nostress and you weren't anxiety
case six months to go.
You've never felt stress in yourlife.
Then you come into our officeand you're having panic attacks
or something like that.
We're going straight to leakygut.
Definitely a lot of otherthings too, but you're not
really a stressed out person, soto say.
(21:47):
So then you have the otherscenario where you've always
been like prone to stress, or orhigh tension, or high strung,
as they say, and and that personis prone to leaky guts so often
because they can't manage theirstress well mentally.
So those are the two things Isee as far as like just straight
stress, exercise stress andconstant mental stress Sometimes
a chicken or an egg story onceagain.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, totally, I see that same thing.
So it's really common with,like, say, like an IBS patient
they're doing really, reallywell and then some stressful
event happens and it just fallsapart.
And that's after.
I've already seen them clearedup a lot of their gut stuff and
it just shows how important likeemotional stress can be.
And then on the flip side, likewhat you're saying, that just
(22:30):
sounded like it reminded me ofmy own issues with anxiety.
So I definitely noticed somestuff in the past, but it wasn't
until I lived in Africa and Iwas under a good deal of stress
that all the anxiety came out.
But that was more because mygut was not in a good state back
then.
I didn't know anything aboutnutrition, and then my anxiety
(22:51):
just went through the roof.
And it wasn't until I startedlearning functional medicine
that I started realizing oh mygoodness, this is exactly what
I've been dealing with thiswhole time and figured out.
You know how to fix this.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, not to really qualify my qualifications, but
like just because I don't alwaystalk about my own health
conditions, but like, like I hada straight like, so I have the
I have a biolastic diary podcast, but like I had that for like
two and a half three years, likethat was a horrible thing.
But essentially I had leaky gutfor two and a half three years.
And while you're going to hearme say don't take probiotics,
it's because I tried it and itdidn't work for me.
It's because I tried so manysupplements.
(23:27):
I tried everyone's phone, everyfunctional medicine protocol
out there because I was even atan end for myself.
I couldn't take supplementsbecause it hurt too much.
I didn't eat until nighttime soI would fast all day long, eat
one meal.
I had to take like two hournaps at lunch because, like my
gut was so messed up that I justcouldn't get well and it was
like almost like I and this is acommon thing everyone tells me
(23:47):
I can't take supplements, like Ihear you, but at the same time,
like you have to find your wayto work to that and that's
actually where it was.
Some like the band aid stuffcan work, like the glutamine,
for example.
That can be a great way to kindof get something into your
system when you don't toleratethat much.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I think you even say it real quick.
You even saying that, like,just makes me think of the
mutual seminars that we've allgone to to learn functional
medicine and that sort of thing.
They always have a lot ofglutamine and stuff like that.
I remember always taking thatstuff just because it was free
and just how often I just feltabsolutely terrible after taking
it just because it wasn't whatwas needed for the body to heal
(24:26):
itself.
Or or the glutamine, it didn'teven work as a band aid because
you're constantly breaking downyour gut and so it didn't even
do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So, yeah, no good.
What was he say is like let's,let's, we'll cover glutamine and
supplements in a second here.
I want to make sure we cover alot of supplements so people
have options, not typicaloptions, but some some thoughts
there.
Heavy metals and otherenvironmental toxins anything
you want to send those, theydefinitely cause the.
He got problems with energy forcells.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, you can go pretty heavy on that, you're
right.
Like lead and others they'regoing to really affect, like
your ability to create energyand your mitochondria.
That is 100% Neurologicalthings.
Probably can do a whole podcasteasily on heavy metals and all
their effects neurologically butit has been shown to increase
(25:19):
permeability and they got any ofthose toxins One just from the
inflammation that they createbut then to just from the way
your body is interacting withthem and what it's doing to the
cells in the gut and how it'smaking you prone to a blood
release and that sort of thing.
That then just opens up the gut.
That means on you and is thereas the gatekeeper and so things
(25:43):
can trigger it to open it up andthat can be done in a good way
or in a bad way and we don'twant the bad way and you know
that's where we're seeing a lotof these things interact with
your gut.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And I think there's some Q&As in the next podcast,
but I would say that's a commonquestion is like how do I not
get leaky gut again or how do Iknow if I have leaky gut?
Those are pretty simple stories, but I think the big thing
about like how do you keep leaky, get away we're all in a flux
state.
I like to say like sometimesyour guts a little healthier,
sometimes a little healthier,it's really a some accumulation
of your total health.
So you're going to go back andforth and I think maybe what we
(26:19):
haven't I mean, if people knowthe word leaky gut, then they
probably are like, oh my gosh,like I got to address it first.
If you don't know the word, youprobably are underestimating
how important it is.
But at the same time I thinkboth you and I, because we go
pretty deep with our patientsit's leaky guts the first thing
that we often address.
And just because we did apodcast on leaky gut and we said
(26:40):
it could cause autoimmunedisease doesn't mean it's the
only driver of your condition.
So we see, I see that a lot ofpeople like I got leaky gut, can
you fix my gut?
We go and we fix that gut.
Like they are stellar.
They went from you knowhorrible bowels and gut issues
to perfect bowels and gut issuesI can't detect.
Detect another gut issue andthey're like well, I think my
gut's still leaky and it's likeno, what happens is there's
(27:00):
still other problems in the bodythat will drive you back to
leaky gut, primarily theirsystem problems that need to be
rebalanced.
But leaky gut is, in the end,all be all.
A lot of people jump on thattrain real quick and it's like
no, don't give up just becausewe healed your leaky gut and
you're still sick, right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yep no-transcript.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I would just say, like you mentioned Lyme disease
before, I would say that wouldbe a good example of like you
can have Lyme disease and nothave leaky gut and still feel
pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
No, yeah, you're right, and we see quite a bit of
Lyme in my area.
I mean, ticks are everywhereand, like I've already had a few
this last week, that very muchseemed that way and it's always
an interesting case and we'llhave to do a podcast on that one
.
It's an always an interestingcase with Lyme or any of the
tick born ones, because it's asimilar scenario.
(27:51):
I still have leaky gut.
Oh, I still have Lyme disease.
You got something else going ontoo.
It's multifaceted.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, you see that level of Lyme, like people say
they're never recovering fromLyme, but it's like they had a
lot going on, so it may not bethat Lyme.
You have to assess that alittle bit more Fun story yeah,
when we lived in Missouri goingto school, my wife went hiking
one time got bit by a tick,developed her bullseye rash and
we're like oh, like you know,like that's why I'll never live
in Missouri.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We're definitely afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Okay, let's cover some of the supplements.
For some of the main rootcauses.
I think both of us are going toagree diet comes first.
You're going to have to cleanthat stuff up.
Once you clean that stuff up,then we can address pretty much
mostly we would say pathogensthat sit there and just irritate
and destroy and poke holes inthat gut, making it that leaky
gut, or destroy that zonulin,including complex.
The bacteria actually createsthese anti zonulin kind of
(28:44):
things that break them open.
So I always say my favoriteproduct on earth is Chinese
coptis golden thread, howeveryou want to say it, because it's
a broad spectrum for bacteriaand fungus.
What else do you use, doc?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I like Neem.
Neem's really good, or Malia,whichever one you go with.
Miranda's another big oneNonifruit.
Those are huge.
It kind of depends on what isgoing on in the gut and what's
causing and what you're needed.
So like olive leaf is also good, but that's like a great
antiviral and it does haveproperties, of course, to kill
bacteria and other things.
(29:19):
Those are probably some of thebig ones.
Then it kind of then goes intowhat else is possibly needed to
help the gut heal.
If I'm going to use a vitamin,mineral or amino acid, probably
vitamin A is the most common.
For me.
Vitamin A helps heal the gut.
It's really good at healing thegut lining.
Outside of that, then it'sgoing to be kind of specific to
(29:40):
the person.
So like I might use zinc ifthey are not producing enough
acid in their stomach.
Zinc is like a huge componentfor acid.
Or I might use acid itself,like betaine hydrochloride, just
depending on the person, justbecause that's going to help.
You got to have some acid inyour stomach to break down the
nutrients to then help repairthe gut lining.
(30:02):
Now the herbs, probably, likeyou said, golden thread, chinese
coptus, malia, miranda thoseare the ones that I probably see
the most commonly.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah.
So a couple of factors there.
I would say all of leaf in highdoses.
I like the ORAC for antioxidantvalue because you see that it
can actually calm theinflammation even if it's not
killing anything.
So you have like a certainantioxidant value to that.
The other one I have that I'lluse and once again, from patient
perspective and from personalperspective, ocaropepsin is
(30:34):
often one that I use fromstandard process and it's not
that common.
Not many people use it, butessentially it is a digestive
enzyme but what it can do isbreak down an infected mucosal
tissue and so what essentiallythe big thing about it is?
It gives you brand newmicrovilli so you get higher
absorption.
What builds up over time thisis standard processes, I guess
statement philosophy, but Ican't prove it, but it seems to
(30:55):
work this way is that you buildup that gunk between your
microvilli and your absorptiongoes down and you can't replace
those because they're kind ofsitting in some sludge.
So essentially that's theconcept of Ocaropepsin finds
that gut lining, digests allthat old stuff you have there
and then you can regrow some newstuff which, like you said, 72
hours to replace a gut If youonly have gut problems.
(31:19):
So many people feel better in 72to 96 hours.
Now, say, you have sevendifferent autoimmune diseases
and a leaky gut problem.
Well, I'm not going to give youa 72 hour window to heal, right
?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, no, that usually takes a while.
Usually there's a foodintolerance involved.
Yeah, it's a little bit longerwith that and that's where you
know.
Just throw out a couple othersupplements you might say
something like Japanese knotweedor manjees to show up curcumin,
those sort of things but that'sto decrease overall
inflammation because theresveratrol, the curcumin, help
(31:54):
reduce it.
And so, really speaking, likethose are pretty good herbs for
that.
But that's in a specific case,like we're dealing with
autoimmune, like we got a lotmore going on than just simple
leaky gut.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, and so that is the truth, right?
So we have to be very upfrontabout that.
Most people have leaky gut anda few other things.
If that leaky gut was caused byinsulin issues, which then
dysregulated liver function,hormones and gallbladder
function, now you're in thislike weird, like I don't have
any healing nutrients from thegallbladder, the bile solids,
bile steroids can't go and calmthings down, so you're kind of
(32:30):
stuck and you end up in the kindof complex cases.
Hence why you can't just alwaysGoogle leaky gut protocol and
get better, right?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
No, I love that, like I mean, just as you're talking.
I'm just kind of laughing atmyself because it gets
complicated, because it'smultifactorial.
It can get really complicated,Like you're talking about.
Okay, you got some fungalinfection in the gut and leaky
gut present.
You might have some autoimmuneissue.
The gallbladder and liver aregoing to be completely
compromised.
Your brain might be compromisedLike we mentioned, leaky brain
(33:00):
earlier and so now you got allthese organs and now sometimes
it is the case where you justfix the gut and all those other
ones go away.
That is definitely true, butthere are times where that is
not the case at all and you gotto do quite a bit of support,
like you said.
Like with gallbladder, you gotyour awesome product artichoke,
like it might be needed.
When it comes to liver, itcould be that you're not
(33:23):
methylating properly and youmight need some B9 or B12 or
something like that, and it justgets.
It can get really complicatedfor somebody, but that is
exactly why you can't just dosome random candida repair or
some other leaky gut protocolonline and why it fails a lot of
people, or just doing colloidalsilver or something like that,
(33:46):
because that can also just notgo the way that you're wanting
it to go.
Like I've tried those things too.
Like you were saying, I'vetried doing.
Like like I had mold issues fora long time and so like one guy
was just like, try this.
And I'm like, okay, I'm willingto try it.
And it was like spraying lotusover in your nose while snorting
a probiotic.
Like you're opening theprobiotic and you're snorting it
(34:07):
and I mean I was hopeful itdidn't do anything.
But nevertheless, like you wantto try to go to somebody who
knows what they're doing,because it gets complicated and
there's no cookie cutter way ofgetting it.
Like you ask Dr Anderson, whatdo you do when somebody comes in
your office?
Like, what are you looking at?
What are you thinking about?
(34:29):
It's, what is individualizedprotocol does this person need?
Because I can't just throw likeChinese caucuses is really
common, but I mean, what if theyneed Malia?
Or what if they need astraggler or something like that
, and if I think that with everysingle person coming in I'm
going to have an issue helpingthem?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, no, every time I tell someone like oh, a
Chinese cop, this will work foryou.
And then it never a muscletests out right.
So hence the value of the visit.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's like being it.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And that's why I always tell people, because both
of us do phone consults.
Sometimes on phone consults Ihave to give like three or four
products where in the office.
I would just give one where Iwould say like oh, in the office
will muscle test, is it Maliaor Neem, or is it Chinese cop
this or is it Miranda or anolive leaf?
I love woad this year eversince COVID.
Is it any one of those for thegut?
(35:20):
If I don't know when I'm on thephone sometimes there's not a
differentiating factor for likea viral infection Virals, viral
has certain symptoms, but wecan't tell you which virus or
which herb sometimes.
So we'll have to give you likethree of them over the phone.
It doesn't mean the phone visithas less value, it's just it's
less specific than muscletesting.
We love people to go to theirdoctors locally but, like I said
(35:42):
, we haven't really gone overthis.
But Dr Gabe's information isonline.
I'm available online for phoneconsultations Sometimes if you
can find my schedule open, andthen I have Dr Dono at the
office too.
So we have availability forphone consultations where we can
get you really deep into someof these things as well as if
you're local, right, so ifyou're in Missouri, go see Dr
(36:02):
Gabe.
Now I get that all the time.
People are like well, I livefive hours away from you.
I'm like honestly, likesometimes it's worth the drive
to find a good practitioner onceor twice.
I'm not saying go there everyweek, but yeah, if you can call
up Dr Gabe from Missouri orwhatever surrounding state
you're in, that's within likethree, four, five hours, it's
(36:22):
probably worth the drive.
In my opinion.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, I agree with that .
I've had several people drivequite a bit, or at least for one
visit or two visit, and then wecan talk on the phone and see
how things go, follow up wise,just so we get to the nitty
gritty details and the first fewthings, know what's going on
and then hopefully we can reallyhandle it on a phone console or
a phone Phone console orvirtual console from there on.
But that's interesting thatyou're seeing Wode a lot.
(36:46):
I've been seeing it here andthere just kind of randomly, and
it's not one that in the pastI've seen very common either.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
All of Leaf and Wode are both those for me ever since
COVID.
Honestly, they would be likesecondary to Malia and Miranda,
and they've taken their spots,so hence why I mean I don't
think you know this.
But yeah, I have my own all ofLeaf now anyway.
But that's why I did it,because I was selling a lot of
bottles every day and I was like, hey, let's get out AMG all of
Leaf, just so I have I haveeasier product to access for the
(37:15):
patients.
But let's summarize this.
I think my summary for today,as we in the podcast, is simple.
Assume you have leaky gut,right, like know that you
probably have it.
If you have a health symptom,everyone has leaky gut.
End of story.
Second, address some of themain things, such as infection
and food, and I'll get a quickonline infection.
I hate to do this.
(37:35):
Like don't think that justbecause you've taken an herb or
a supplement or the magical onein my office in Arizona the rage
is biocidin just because you'vetaken biocidin doesn't mean
you've addressed your dysbiosisor your infectious load.
Lastly, if you're not betterwithin a short period of time,
it actually has value to go seea doctor because they're gonna
understand.
While you can Google leaky gutand be an expert on it, it's
(37:59):
really hard to then be an experton leaky gut, pancreatic
function, digestive enzymefunction, immune balancing,
liver, gallbladder and all ofthat.
It's just so hard for a singleperson to be an expert at it, so
I do throw out the concept.
Give it a try, but if you'renot getting better, so some of
(38:19):
the supplements we recommend.
It might be great for you.
But if that doesn't work, youneed to give someone a call.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
No, I love it.
That's a similar thing for myangle.
I want to get people better and, if they can do it on their own
, more power to you.
That's why we do these podcasts.
That's why I have all thearticles up on my website and
even have a free leaky gut book,that sort of thing, just to
help people go through it andrealize, hey, you can do a lot
on your own at home.
(38:45):
Get the Paleo diet, try to doan elimination diet.
Remove the foods that are mostcommon, see if that helps.
Try Chinese Coptus, try some ofthese herbs, and if not, we're
here for you or we can findsomeone local to you, something
like that.
Just reach out, we're here tohelp.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
All right, you'll have Dr Gabe's contact
information on mine below in theshow notes, but other than that
, that's it for this episode,and stay tuned for the next
episode, which we're gonna coverQ&A or questions that we got
off of Instagram, where you canfind us, of course, on Instagram
, and we'll answer some basicQ&A that we get.
They're actually pretty complex, so we hope to see you on the
next show.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
All right, see you then.
Welcome to the Functional Medicine and Natural
Healing Podcast, where we sharethe secrets to upgrade your
digestion, improve your hormones, restore your immune system and
detoxify your body.
I'm your host, dr HoustonAnderson.
Now let's get started.
The following discussion is foreducational purposes only.
It is not intended to diagnoseor treat any disease or disease
(00:24):
process.
Please discuss any medicaltreatments or medical
interventions with your personalphysician.
Hi guys, welcome back to thepodcast.
I'm Dr Houston Anderson.
I'm here with Dr Gabe and weare excited today to talk about
a common problem in the officecalled a leaky gut.
So a lot of people know whatleaky gut is.
So we'll kind of go in depthabout some things that people
(00:45):
know and then we'll also coversome of the basics so you really
understand why you probablyhave this and what to go about.
What's new with you today, drGabe?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Just hanging out at home.
It's a casual day for mebecause we're getting ready to
move, so moving boxes, fillingthose all sorts of fun and games
with that.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yeah, I'm actually glad that we're doing this
together right now, because Iprobably would have skipped out
on today because we got a lotgoing on too.
But that is what it is andwe'll keep going.
So let's talk about someonethinks they have leaky gut or
doesn't know what it is.
But leaky gut pretty muchexists in most patients.
But how do you see it walkingyour door?
(01:26):
What do people say when theywalk in?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I almost kind of like what you said.
I assume anyone walking inprobably has it just because
it's so prevalent, but usuallythey will have some sort of gut
issue.
But they don't always have tohave a gut issue.
You could have some neurologicthing just as simple as anxiety
tend to worry depression,because when you have leaky gut
you also have leaky brain, whichwe can get into that.
(01:50):
But generally speaking, to makeit really simple and
straightforward bloatingindigestion, definitely some gut
disturbance going on because oflocalized inflammation.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, and I was a traditional medicine doesn't
ever go to leaky gut.
There's the discrepancy betweenhow they describe it, meaning
technically, in the research.
If you guys want to go do allthe research that supports the
things that we talked abouttoday, it's really under the
word intestinal permeability.
So if you go and tell your GIdoc, hey, I've got leaky gut,
they kind of laugh at you andyou don't really get too far.
So they kind of kick you out,saying like maybe you have
(02:27):
anxiety because you're afraid ofthat.
And you probably do haveanxiety because, like you said,
there's that leaky gut brainconnection.
So, I think that's a big one.
I think I'll talk really quickto what happens if you go to
your doctor's office and you dohave intestinal permeability or
you think you have it.
The problem with this is onceagain like so I always say I'm a
chiropractor, I train, althoughI do functional medicine all
(02:47):
the time why doesn't our GIdoctor solve this problem for us
?
And the reason why is becausethere's not a definitive test
that they can run.
So we have all kinds of likezonulin occlusion tests.
You can do urine, you can doblood, you can do LPS tests, you
can do different endotoxintests, but at the end of the day
, none of them are definitive.
And the problem with it is thatwhat they find in the research
(03:08):
is, if you run the test, youcould feel better and the tests
are worse, or the tests couldget better and you could feel
worse, and that's the bigdiscrepancy in research.
Hence why your doctor reallydoesn't have a ton of actionable
steps to give to you from themedical or medicine perspective,
because they don't want toprescribe a drug for a, maybe,
if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
No.
I completely agree with that forsure.
That's one of the main issues.
There's nothing they can doabout it.
So what's the point of runningany sort of guess on it?
Because, like you said, there'sa couple of tests out there and
there's zonulin.
They're starting to find bettertests on that but generally
speaking, it's an indirect test.
And then what do they do withit in the end?
(03:49):
Because I mean, when we getinto it leaky gut, as much as we
often hear about it being aroot cause usually something
causes it in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it's not really, that's pretty funny to go over.
Eventually, I guess right,what's a real root cause?
Maybe we'll have a wholeepisode on just what is a root
cause.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd begood.
So what's the differencebetween?
Like someone walks into youroffice I just said the medical
doctors often don't haveanything to do Like someone
comes into your office.
What can you look at from thenatural perspective?
What tools do you have that youcan use, that maybe they
(04:19):
wouldn't use?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So, from a natural perspective, of course, just
having the paradigm where we'relooking at things a little bit
differently, where we areabsolutely looking for a root
cause, to bring that up again.
So that would be one of themain ones.
So, as somebody comes in, I'masking questions in regards to
all their symptoms, and in thiscase we're kind of focused so
(04:42):
much on the gut.
So I'm wanting to figure out,ok, what is going on, why are
you having these problems, andif leaky gut is involved, how
I'm going to go about testingfor that specifically still
going to be kind of indirect,because we're not necessarily
wanting to treat that directly.
We're wanting to treat what'scausing it, and so it probably
(05:05):
helps to go into the physiologyof what leaky gut is.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
So yeah, before we get too deep into that, I say
that's the biggest thing I see.
When people walk into my officethey come in, they're on a
probiotic, a prebiotic, an omegafish oil, and what's the last
one?
Everyone gets vitamin D, rightand those four things and
they're saying like hey, mydoctor gave me a leaky gut
protocol and I'm like that'spretty much a general health
protocol, not a specific gutprotocol.
(05:31):
And then oftentimes, like I'll,steve, I'm going to call it a
beginner protocol and if yourdoctor is a beginner I'm sorry,
but like they're doingmarshmallow roux and stinging
nettle and all these newsalaginous nutrients that
essentially cover the gut liningthat protects you a little bit
from a lot of the main causes,but they're not really digging
deep enough to really see thatresolution.
(05:52):
And what happens whenever youdo kind of like a bandaid mucus
membrane support is that youdon't get the results Right.
So I treated gut like almostexclusively for about four years
because it was just the easiestthing to market, to be
straightforward, like everyonehad it and no one was fixing it,
and so I just brought a ton ofit into the office.
But you know, we've kind ofexpanded obviously beyond that
(06:13):
because the gut isn't that hard.
There's so much more after that.
But yeah, why don't you explainto someone how they might kind
of develop this leaky gut?
And what does leaky gut mean?
Because as soon as you sayleaky gut, everyone thinks
they're like bleeding to death,right?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You're right.
You're right.
I mean and just to kind of addto your point a little bit too
like glutamine.
Glutamine is like everything.
Anyone comes in with leaky gut.
They're on glutamine protocoljust to heal the gut.
But the thing that I explainedto my patients that they're
always surprised with is howquick the gut heals.
Yeah, it's like three days andthe cells replace themselves.
(06:46):
And so many people aresurprised.
Really, what you need to do isget rid of what's breaking down
those cells, and so that getsinto the physiology of leaky gut
, and I like to liken it to acastle because I think that's
the easiest way to kind ofenvision this.
You have a single layer ofcells that line your gut that's
protecting you essentially fromeverything you're putting into
(07:08):
your gut.
So in that sense, you're beingable to consume whatever food,
whatever you're drinking oranything like that, and you have
this single layer between youand your immune system and your
bloodstream.
And most of your immune systemlies in your gut, like 80%, and
so the way I look at it is thatcell layer is the castle wall.
You have bacteria and otherthings that live in your gut.
(07:30):
That kind of create this mucousmembrane, which is another
protective thing, and you cankind of think of that like a
castle note.
And then, of course, thearchers and everything else that
are the soldiers behind it areyour immune system, and so what
happens is you're exposed topesticides or, besides, you're
exposed to heavy metals, foodintolerances and pathogens, or
(07:51):
maybe you're overfeeding certainmicroorganisms inside your gut
that end up breaking down thiswall, and instead of having
these draw bridges only open atparticular times, instead
they're blowing holes in thewhole system or they're
activating those draw bridgeswhen they shouldn't be.
So.
It's that draw bridge thatallows things into the castle,
(08:12):
and so now you have holes inyour wall.
The draw bridge is open.
That's what leaky gut is.
It's increased permeability,things that shouldn't be getting
past that wall or getting pastit.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I love it.
I love it and I would say, liketypical symptoms of this leaky
gut, like we talked aboutbloating and stuff like that,
just reactions to anything,right, whether it's
environmental.
I mean I get that all the time.
People are like, oh well, I'mallergic to all the trees in
Arizona.
I'm like, well, that's notreally a thing, right.
So now you might haveenvironmental allergies and
definitely those can irritategut linings and things like that
(08:45):
, but if you come in as likeevery tree around your house
you're allergic to, that'sanother sign that maybe you have
that leaky gut story going on.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Yeah, yeah ragweed that's the common one here where
I'm at and like, it just hitragweed season and so everyone
is having a hard time withragweed.
But and then we just think,okay, I'm going to take that
over the counter anti-histaminethe entire time, instead of
actually figuring it out.
Oh, maybe my body is having areally hard time handling all
this.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yeah, just thinking about justanything getting from the
external world into the bloodstream is a problem.
Hence where we have such severereactions, hence where we start
to develop pretty much everysymptom that walks into our
office, from eczema and brainfog to other things like I don't
(09:34):
even autoimmune disease, justthe more severe things.
But from even, like anytimesomething goes from the food or
the environment and passesthrough that barrier that you're
talking about.
That's when pretty much everyhealth problem starts.
So let's go into, like, some ofthe root causes, right?
So we said we don't want tojust band aid that gut lining,
we want to figure out why in theworld there's a hole in the gut
(09:56):
lining first.
All right, so, doc, what causessome of this main leaky gut
stuff that's going on?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
All right.
So I mentioned a few of them.
Diet in general let's startthere because that's probably
the simple one.
The standard American diet Lotsof sugar, lots of processed
food and that sort of thing isgoing to cause leaky gut just
from it and of itself.
Sugar processed foods are goingto break down that gut lining.
They're going to break downthat mucous membrane or the
(10:23):
mucous layer that we havesitting there, and then it's
going to allow things to getthrough.
It's also going to not provideenough nutrition so that your
immune system is even workingwell, or the protein to replace
the cells in your gut.
So now you're having thismalnutrition and then further
some inflammatory foods that aregetting in.
That's breaking down.
(10:43):
The other ones are just your owngut bacteria or fungus that
live in your gut.
So, like candida, albicans, weall have that.
So if we eat too much sugar,it's going to overgrow.
If you have other certainbacteria that live in your gut
because you're eating certainfoods, the more you feed it, the
more it grows, the more that isin your gut.
(11:04):
That can easily lead tobreakdown of this barrier.
Otherwise there's pathogens,and pathogens are the ones that
aren't supposed to be there thatget in.
So we all have a certain amountof E coli in our large
intestine, but it shouldn't bein our small intestine.
Then there's certain E coli,you just shouldn't have any.
So that's one.
Of course, other food what'sthe word?
(11:29):
I've already lost it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Like infections like.
Shigella or Salmonella orsomething like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Food poisoning yeah, shigella, the Salmonella.
The other one that I thought ofwas C diff.
Another thing that is a hugeissue and of course, whenever I
was a nurse I saw a lot of that,to the point that I can
recognize the smell anytime butC diff is a huge issue.
From hospitals or other carefacilities that's where you get
(11:59):
C diff usually.
Of course, there's other thingsthat you can definitely get in
you that are just pathogenic,but those are probably the main
ones I think we would see interms of the gut.
Of course there's things youget like vector-borne, like Lyme
disease and other things likethat, but that's a little bit
different presentation.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, I think the only thing I'll throw out here
in addition is the concept ofdysbiosis.
We don't really have that inour show notes here anywhere,
but essentially the way thatthat gut stays happy and leaky
gut doesn't exist all the timeis.
We're trying to keep some kindof balance between the good guys
and the bad guys.
It's not really about quantityof good guys.
(12:40):
I think that's the oldprobiotic myth.
If we add a ton of good guys,all of a sudden all the bad guys
disappear and clinically Iwould say I think it's true for
both of us.
We don't really see that happen.
You don't just add a bunch ofprobiotics and everyone
instantly gets better.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
No, it would be nice, that'd be simple.
But yeah, no, it usually is thebandaid, like you were saying.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, and even then.
So I'll tell you this becauseI'm pretty blatant about not
using probiotics in my officeand when people say what about
my probiotic, I say no.
What about my prebiotic?
I say no.
And the reason why is becausewhat I found clinically is I was
running into the problem wherepeople would come in I would
come up with this magicaltreatment protocol and then they
call me in a week and say I'mnot better.
(13:22):
And early in practice I waslike okay, let's try this, let's
try this, let's try this.
And always the thing that waskeeping the people that didn't
get better rapidly from gettingbetter was their probiotic.
So I was like what else are youtaking?
And they're like nothing.
I mean, I am taking a probioticfor my gut health, of course,
and I would pull that one outand you would see at least 40%
(13:44):
of that 50% get better within aweek and you're like, oh man.
So the problem is this there'sthousands of strains, there's a
lot of options, there's 50different top probiotics you can
buy, but it's really hard todial that in and I even remember
different practitioners.
So Dr A Stillsmith in the UK.
He makes individual strains butyou find that people switch
(14:06):
strains that they need as quickas like two, three days, right.
So it's hard to stay on top ofthat, unless you want to go see
your doctor every three days andpay a pretty penny for that,
just for maintaining yourprobiotic, which you're maybe
over obsessed with.
That.
Yeah, not giving you the homerun or the root level issue that
you're trying to address.
Remember that pathogens that DrGave just talked about those
(14:28):
are the guys that are causingthe problem.
Now there is research thatprobiotics do help with those
pathogens, but we don't findthat they're the strongest way
to do it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
No, no, I agree with that too.
So I think we've had thisconversation in the past.
It's like when somebody askedme what they should do for
probiotics, I'm like get it fromyour food, yeah.
So I think you have goodorganic food which is going to
get to some of the other causesof leaky gut, but eat good
organic food.
You guys are lucky.
In Arizona you can buy raw milkin the store, so if you're not
(14:56):
a dairy sensitive, you can getit there.
I mean, here we can go to thefarm and get it.
There's a lot of ways to getprobiotics in just food form.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yep, totally agree.
So I think we covered well, wecovered the poor standard
American diet, but I think otherdietary factors is, if you're
suffering from a lot of gutstuff, lower grains.
I think we get that questionall the time.
What's your favorite diet?
I don't know.
I usually say like some kind ofpaleo base, right, yeah, paleo
base is an idea and then startrefining for how you feel while
(15:27):
you eat it.
But yes, definitely all theprocessed, refined grains, all
the additional sugars, all thehigh fructose corn syrup which
your actual cells of your gutcan't really tolerate very well.
So all of that stuff is kind ofstuff that just contributes to
this problem on a daily basisand you're trying to get rid of
the major guys like pathogens,as well as that daily irritant.
(15:49):
So we don't use a lot of fiber.
That's another good one.
We have a low fiber diet inAmerica, but I don't use a lot
of fiber supplements becausemost of the time people already
have enough irritation that afiber supplement will also
aggravate their symptoms thatthey already have.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
No, I think you're 100% there with the fiber.
It's so common people beingtold to eat a high fiber diet or
metamucil or whatever it isthat they're needing to bring
into their food or into theirdiet itself, and that is
problematic.
And I mean even research kindof shows that with fiber.
We don't have a lot of studieson fiber, which surprises people
(16:23):
, and the one study that Iremember reading that we do have
shows that a no fiber dietactually helped the most for
people who were struggling withconstipation and IBS, which was
interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I don't know.
I've seen that one.
That is cool.
Well, give me an example ofsome of the food intolerances
you see in your office.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
most common so gluten by far is always number one.
I think I see that one.
The most common Dairy, probablytied with several others.
So dairy nightshades are theother.
One Nightshade family, if noone knows what that is, is your
tomato pepper eggplant group.
It's a pain in the neck.
I always feel bad whenever thatone comes up Just because it is
(17:04):
hard.
Corn is another major one, Soyand egg those are probably the
big, big ones and it's also theones that you're going to see.
If you're familiar with AIPdiet, which is a paleo diet,
that's a little bit more strict.
They remove those things forautoimmune Just because we're
seeing this causing leaky gut,which then can easily turn into
(17:25):
an autoimmune type flair.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
For sure.
Right that path, not thepathogen, but the food gets into
the bloodstream.
The body overreacts to thatfood that's in the bloodstream
and now you have lots ofinflammation and it just goes
everywhere.
And the question is, whatorgans susceptible to damage at
that time?
What other?
Maybe you're someone that'salways had a liver gallbladder
issue.
Now you have the leaky gut.
It makes that flare because ofthe inflammation and you think
that it's.
(17:48):
And so this is actuallyinteresting because we talk
about, like what's the chickenor the A?
What comes first in thatscenario.
You had a gallbladder problemfirst, for example, and then you
got the leaky gut, which thenexacerbated your gallbladder
problem, and then now you'restuck in this tough spot of like
I have a severe gallbladderproblem now and a leaky gut.
What do I do?
First?
And it's just about teasing itout and figuring out what's
going to help the patient themost.
Anything you want to say onpesticides and herbicides Is
(18:12):
this in all our food.
We can't avoid it.
What do we do?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So I mean, as best as possible, you're going to eat
organic and that's within reason.
Usually what I tell people,especially those who are new to
this world, is go to the dirtydozen lists and I give them
EWG's website and have them gothere and look at the dirty
dozen.
The dirty dozen are the 12fruit and vegetables that have
the worst pesticides.
(18:36):
Number one right now for awhile has been strawberries.
Strawberries are really bad.
So getting those organic localis always best, because then you
can talk to the farmer and knowwhat they're doing, because
even with organic, there arecertain practices that aren't
the best.
But you just do the best youcan because it is a battle and
you got to pick your battle.
(18:56):
So the best thing is that,because I mean, if you start
thinking about everyenvironmental toxin that you are
dealing with, you're going tobe surprised by even our
clothing.
It's everywhere that you'regoing to be running into some of
this stuff, and so what isgoing to be the best thing for
your butt?
Generally speaking, go to thedirty dozen first, start working
(19:18):
towards organic, gettingpasture, raised meat and that
sort of thing will get you alongthose ways.
But with my patients I'm alwaysworking a day at a time, though
sometimes I like to pull thebandaid off completely at once,
depending on the need and ifthey're willing.
But yeah, they are everywhere.
Water would be the next one.
(19:39):
Usually I'm telling them youneed to filter your water or get
it from, say, like naturalgrocers, which is what we have
here local and you can get some,or you can get some RO reverse
osmosis water.
There I use a Berkey right now,and then when we get our new
house I'll be looking intoprobably doing a whole house
filter or something like that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
So yeah, I mean that's andthat's always a hard one.
I mean I'm not going to throwout a brand that I think is the
best for RO water.
That's just a really hard oneto do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's all about the strengths and weaknesses right.
Yep, even the Berkey, likeBerkey, has its strengths and
weaknesses.
It's just the one that we choseto do for ease, while we are
living in apartments.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, and I will tell you that, that our well water
comes out crystal clear and whenit freezes I always tell people
like you can tell if your wateris really good.
When it freezes, your ice cubesare clear.
It means this still has energy,is still structured as well, as
I mean it doesn't, doesn'tcount the mineral content, but
you test your water there.
But, yeah, obviously, citywater is going to be pretty
garbage.
(20:39):
Right, I live in the city, butour place out that has the has
the well.
That's like awesome water toexist in.
I just don't get it as often.
So, yeah, we're doing RO at ourhouse too.
Okay, let's talk about stress.
I think I think I'll coverstress really quick and then
I'll get some comments on Ithink I think stress is
something that I'm mostconcerned about in a chronic
(21:00):
nature.
But I did see a study wherethey actually they proved that
if they over exercise you for aperiod of time as short as like
eight hours and you get no sleep, that you will develop
intestinal permeability fromexercise alone.
So I think about all the peoplethat are like oh, I got to lose
weight, I got to lose weight,but even that, that's a whole,
that's a whole subset, but thereality is, most people that
walk into our offices are mildanxiety cases and once again,
(21:26):
your job as as the patient, tofigure out is it stress causing
the leaky gut or did the leakygut cause stress?
So let's say that you had nostress and you weren't anxiety
case six months to go.
You've never felt stress in yourlife.
Then you come into our officeand you're having panic attacks
or something like that.
We're going straight to leakygut.
Definitely a lot of otherthings too, but you're not
really a stressed out person, soto say.
(21:47):
So then you have the otherscenario where you've always
been like prone to stress, or orhigh tension, or high strung,
as they say, and and that personis prone to leaky guts so often
because they can't manage theirstress well mentally.
So those are the two things Isee as far as like just straight
stress, exercise stress andconstant mental stress Sometimes
a chicken or an egg story onceagain.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, totally, I see that same thing.
So it's really common with,like, say, like an IBS patient
they're doing really, reallywell and then some stressful
event happens and it just fallsapart.
And that's after.
I've already seen them clearedup a lot of their gut stuff and
it just shows how important likeemotional stress can be.
And then on the flip side, likewhat you're saying, that just
(22:30):
sounded like it reminded me ofmy own issues with anxiety.
So I definitely noticed somestuff in the past, but it wasn't
until I lived in Africa and Iwas under a good deal of stress
that all the anxiety came out.
But that was more because mygut was not in a good state back
then.
I didn't know anything aboutnutrition, and then my anxiety
(22:51):
just went through the roof.
And it wasn't until I startedlearning functional medicine
that I started realizing oh mygoodness, this is exactly what
I've been dealing with thiswhole time and figured out.
You know how to fix this.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, not to really qualify my qualifications, but
like just because I don't alwaystalk about my own health
conditions, but like, like I hada straight like, so I have the
I have a biolastic diary podcast, but like I had that for like
two and a half three years, likethat was a horrible thing.
But essentially I had leaky gutfor two and a half three years.
And while you're going to hearme say don't take probiotics,
it's because I tried it and itdidn't work for me.
It's because I tried so manysupplements.
(23:27):
I tried everyone's phone, everyfunctional medicine protocol
out there because I was even atan end for myself.
I couldn't take supplementsbecause it hurt too much.
I didn't eat until nighttime soI would fast all day long, eat
one meal.
I had to take like two hournaps at lunch because, like my
gut was so messed up that I justcouldn't get well and it was
like almost like I and this is acommon thing everyone tells me
(23:47):
I can't take supplements, like Ihear you, but at the same time,
like you have to find your wayto work to that and that's
actually where it was.
Some like the band aid stuffcan work, like the glutamine,
for example.
That can be a great way to kindof get something into your
system when you don't toleratethat much.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I think you even say it real quick.
You even saying that, like,just makes me think of the
mutual seminars that we've allgone to to learn functional
medicine and that sort of thing.
They always have a lot ofglutamine and stuff like that.
I remember always taking thatstuff just because it was free
and just how often I just feltabsolutely terrible after taking
it just because it wasn't whatwas needed for the body to heal
(24:26):
itself.
Or or the glutamine, it didn'teven work as a band aid because
you're constantly breaking downyour gut and so it didn't even
do anything.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
So, yeah, no good.
What was he say is like let's,let's, we'll cover glutamine and
supplements in a second here.
I want to make sure we cover alot of supplements so people
have options, not typicaloptions, but some some thoughts
there.
Heavy metals and otherenvironmental toxins anything
you want to send those, theydefinitely cause the.
He got problems with energy forcells.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, you can go pretty heavy on that, you're
right.
Like lead and others they'regoing to really affect, like
your ability to create energyand your mitochondria.
That is 100% Neurologicalthings.
Probably can do a whole podcasteasily on heavy metals and all
their effects neurologically butit has been shown to increase
(25:19):
permeability and they got any ofthose toxins One just from the
inflammation that they createbut then to just from the way
your body is interacting withthem and what it's doing to the
cells in the gut and how it'smaking you prone to a blood
release and that sort of thing.
That then just opens up the gut.
That means on you and is thereas the gatekeeper and so things
(25:43):
can trigger it to open it up andthat can be done in a good way
or in a bad way and we don'twant the bad way and you know
that's where we're seeing a lotof these things interact with
your gut.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And I think there's some Q&As in the next podcast,
but I would say that's a commonquestion is like how do I not
get leaky gut again or how do Iknow if I have leaky gut?
Those are pretty simple stories, but I think the big thing
about like how do you keep leaky, get away we're all in a flux
state.
I like to say like sometimesyour guts a little healthier,
sometimes a little healthier,it's really a some accumulation
of your total health.
So you're going to go back andforth and I think maybe what we
(26:19):
haven't I mean, if people knowthe word leaky gut, then they
probably are like, oh my gosh,like I got to address it first.
If you don't know the word, youprobably are underestimating
how important it is.
But at the same time I thinkboth you and I, because we go
pretty deep with our patientsit's leaky guts the first thing
that we often address.
And just because we did apodcast on leaky gut and we said
(26:40):
it could cause autoimmunedisease doesn't mean it's the
only driver of your condition.
So we see, I see that a lot ofpeople like I got leaky gut, can
you fix my gut?
We go and we fix that gut.
Like they are stellar.
They went from you knowhorrible bowels and gut issues
to perfect bowels and gut issuesI can't detect.
Detect another gut issue andthey're like well, I think my
gut's still leaky and it's likeno, what happens is there's
(27:00):
still other problems in the bodythat will drive you back to
leaky gut, primarily theirsystem problems that need to be
rebalanced.
But leaky gut is, in the end,all be all.
A lot of people jump on thattrain real quick and it's like
no, don't give up just becausewe healed your leaky gut and
you're still sick, right.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yep no-transcript.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I would just say, like you mentioned Lyme disease
before, I would say that wouldbe a good example of like you
can have Lyme disease and nothave leaky gut and still feel
pretty bad.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
No, yeah, you're right, and we see quite a bit of
Lyme in my area.
I mean, ticks are everywhereand, like I've already had a few
this last week, that very muchseemed that way and it's always
an interesting case and we'llhave to do a podcast on that one
.
It's an always an interestingcase with Lyme or any of the
tick born ones, because it's asimilar scenario.
(27:51):
I still have leaky gut.
Oh, I still have Lyme disease.
You got something else going ontoo.
It's multifaceted.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, you see that level of Lyme, like people say
they're never recovering fromLyme, but it's like they had a
lot going on, so it may not bethat Lyme.
You have to assess that alittle bit more Fun story yeah,
when we lived in Missouri goingto school, my wife went hiking
one time got bit by a tick,developed her bullseye rash and
we're like oh, like you know,like that's why I'll never live
in Missouri.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We're definitely afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Okay, let's cover some of the supplements.
For some of the main rootcauses.
I think both of us are going toagree diet comes first.
You're going to have to cleanthat stuff up.
Once you clean that stuff up,then we can address pretty much
mostly we would say pathogensthat sit there and just irritate
and destroy and poke holes inthat gut, making it that leaky
gut, or destroy that zonulin,including complex.
The bacteria actually createsthese anti zonulin kind of
(28:44):
things that break them open.
So I always say my favoriteproduct on earth is Chinese
coptis golden thread, howeveryou want to say it, because it's
a broad spectrum for bacteriaand fungus.
What else do you use, doc?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I like Neem.
Neem's really good, or Malia,whichever one you go with.
Miranda's another big oneNonifruit.
Those are huge.
It kind of depends on what isgoing on in the gut and what's
causing and what you're needed.
So like olive leaf is also good, but that's like a great
antiviral and it does haveproperties, of course, to kill
bacteria and other things.
(29:19):
Those are probably some of thebig ones.
Then it kind of then goes intowhat else is possibly needed to
help the gut heal.
If I'm going to use a vitamin,mineral or amino acid, probably
vitamin A is the most common.
For me.
Vitamin A helps heal the gut.
It's really good at healing thegut lining.
Outside of that, then it'sgoing to be kind of specific to
(29:40):
the person.
So like I might use zinc ifthey are not producing enough
acid in their stomach.
Zinc is like a huge componentfor acid.
Or I might use acid itself,like betaine hydrochloride, just
depending on the person, justbecause that's going to help.
You got to have some acid inyour stomach to break down the
nutrients to then help repairthe gut lining.
(30:02):
Now the herbs, probably, likeyou said, golden thread, chinese
coptus, malia, miranda thoseare the ones that I probably see
the most commonly.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah.
So a couple of factors there.
I would say all of leaf in highdoses.
I like the ORAC for antioxidantvalue because you see that it
can actually calm theinflammation even if it's not
killing anything.
So you have like a certainantioxidant value to that.
The other one I have that I'lluse and once again, from patient
perspective and from personalperspective, ocaropepsin is
(30:34):
often one that I use fromstandard process and it's not
that common.
Not many people use it, butessentially it is a digestive
enzyme but what it can do isbreak down an infected mucosal
tissue and so what essentiallythe big thing about it is?
It gives you brand newmicrovilli so you get higher
absorption.
What builds up over time thisis standard processes, I guess
statement philosophy, but Ican't prove it, but it seems to
(30:55):
work this way is that you buildup that gunk between your
microvilli and your absorptiongoes down and you can't replace
those because they're kind ofsitting in some sludge.
So essentially that's theconcept of Ocaropepsin finds
that gut lining, digests allthat old stuff you have there
and then you can regrow some newstuff which, like you said, 72
hours to replace a gut If youonly have gut problems.
(31:19):
So many people feel better in 72to 96 hours.
Now, say, you have sevendifferent autoimmune diseases
and a leaky gut problem.
Well, I'm not going to give youa 72 hour window to heal, right
?
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, no, that usually takes a while.
Usually there's a foodintolerance involved.
Yeah, it's a little bit longerwith that and that's where you
know.
Just throw out a couple othersupplements you might say
something like Japanese knotweedor manjees to show up curcumin,
those sort of things but that'sto decrease overall
inflammation because theresveratrol, the curcumin, help
(31:54):
reduce it.
And so, really speaking, likethose are pretty good herbs for
that.
But that's in a specific case,like we're dealing with
autoimmune, like we got a lotmore going on than just simple
leaky gut.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, and so that is the truth, right?
So we have to be very upfrontabout that.
Most people have leaky gut anda few other things.
If that leaky gut was caused byinsulin issues, which then
dysregulated liver function,hormones and gallbladder
function, now you're in thislike weird, like I don't have
any healing nutrients from thegallbladder, the bile solids,
bile steroids can't go and calmthings down, so you're kind of
(32:30):
stuck and you end up in the kindof complex cases.
Hence why you can't just alwaysGoogle leaky gut protocol and
get better, right?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
No, I love that, like I mean, just as you're talking.
I'm just kind of laughing atmyself because it gets
complicated, because it'smultifactorial.
It can get really complicated,Like you're talking about.
Okay, you got some fungalinfection in the gut and leaky
gut present.
You might have some autoimmuneissue.
The gallbladder and liver aregoing to be completely
compromised.
Your brain might be compromisedLike we mentioned, leaky brain
(33:00):
earlier and so now you got allthese organs and now sometimes
it is the case where you justfix the gut and all those other
ones go away.
That is definitely true, butthere are times where that is
not the case at all and you gotto do quite a bit of support,
like you said.
Like with gallbladder, you gotyour awesome product artichoke,
like it might be needed.
When it comes to liver, itcould be that you're not
(33:23):
methylating properly and youmight need some B9 or B12 or
something like that, and it justgets.
It can get really complicatedfor somebody, but that is
exactly why you can't just dosome random candida repair or
some other leaky gut protocolonline and why it fails a lot of
people, or just doing colloidalsilver or something like that,
(33:46):
because that can also just notgo the way that you're wanting
it to go.
Like I've tried those things too.
Like you were saying, I'vetried doing.
Like like I had mold issues fora long time and so like one guy
was just like, try this.
And I'm like, okay, I'm willingto try it.
And it was like spraying lotusover in your nose while snorting
a probiotic.
Like you're opening theprobiotic and you're snorting it
(34:07):
and I mean I was hopeful itdidn't do anything.
But nevertheless, like you wantto try to go to somebody who
knows what they're doing,because it gets complicated and
there's no cookie cutter way ofgetting it.
Like you ask Dr Anderson, whatdo you do when somebody comes in
your office?
Like, what are you looking at?
What are you thinking about?
(34:29):
It's, what is individualizedprotocol does this person need?
Because I can't just throw likeChinese caucuses is really
common, but I mean, what if theyneed Malia?
Or what if they need astraggler or something like that
, and if I think that with everysingle person coming in I'm
going to have an issue helpingthem?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, no, every time I tell someone like oh, a
Chinese cop, this will work foryou.
And then it never a muscletests out right.
So hence the value of the visit.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's like being it.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And that's why I always tell people, because both
of us do phone consults.
Sometimes on phone consults Ihave to give like three or four
products where in the office.
I would just give one where Iwould say like oh, in the office
will muscle test, is it Maliaor Neem, or is it Chinese cop
this or is it Miranda or anolive leaf?
I love woad this year eversince COVID.
Is it any one of those for thegut?
(35:20):
If I don't know when I'm on thephone sometimes there's not a
differentiating factor for likea viral infection Virals, viral
has certain symptoms, but wecan't tell you which virus or
which herb sometimes.
So we'll have to give you likethree of them over the phone.
It doesn't mean the phone visithas less value, it's just it's
less specific than muscletesting.
We love people to go to theirdoctors locally but, like I said
(35:42):
, we haven't really gone overthis.
But Dr Gabe's information isonline.
I'm available online for phoneconsultations Sometimes if you
can find my schedule open, andthen I have Dr Dono at the
office too.
So we have availability forphone consultations where we can
get you really deep into someof these things as well as if
you're local, right, so ifyou're in Missouri, go see Dr
(36:02):
Gabe.
Now I get that all the time.
People are like well, I livefive hours away from you.
I'm like honestly, likesometimes it's worth the drive
to find a good practitioner onceor twice.
I'm not saying go there everyweek, but yeah, if you can call
up Dr Gabe from Missouri orwhatever surrounding state
you're in, that's within likethree, four, five hours, it's
(36:22):
probably worth the drive.
In my opinion.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
No, I agree with that .
I've had several people drivequite a bit, or at least for one
visit or two visit, and then wecan talk on the phone and see
how things go, follow up wise,just so we get to the nitty
gritty details and the first fewthings, know what's going on
and then hopefully we can reallyhandle it on a phone console or
a phone Phone console orvirtual console from there on.
But that's interesting thatyou're seeing Wode a lot.
(36:46):
I've been seeing it here andthere just kind of randomly, and
it's not one that in the pastI've seen very common either.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
All of Leaf and Wode are both those for me ever since
COVID.
Honestly, they would be likesecondary to Malia and Miranda,
and they've taken their spots,so hence why I mean I don't
think you know this.
But yeah, I have my own all ofLeaf now anyway.
But that's why I did it,because I was selling a lot of
bottles every day and I was like, hey, let's get out AMG all of
Leaf, just so I have I haveeasier product to access for the
(37:15):
patients.
But let's summarize this.
I think my summary for today,as we in the podcast, is simple.
Assume you have leaky gut,right, like know that you
probably have it.
If you have a health symptom,everyone has leaky gut.
End of story.
Second, address some of themain things, such as infection
and food, and I'll get a quickonline infection.
I hate to do this.
(37:35):
Like don't think that justbecause you've taken an herb or
a supplement or the magical onein my office in Arizona the rage
is biocidin just because you'vetaken biocidin doesn't mean
you've addressed your dysbiosisor your infectious load.
Lastly, if you're not betterwithin a short period of time,
it actually has value to go seea doctor because they're gonna
understand.
While you can Google leaky gutand be an expert on it, it's
(37:59):
really hard to then be an experton leaky gut, pancreatic
function, digestive enzymefunction, immune balancing,
liver, gallbladder and all ofthat.
It's just so hard for a singleperson to be an expert at it, so
I do throw out the concept.
Give it a try, but if you'renot getting better, so some of
(38:19):
the supplements we recommend.
It might be great for you.
But if that doesn't work, youneed to give someone a call.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
No, I love it.
That's a similar thing for myangle.
I want to get people better and, if they can do it on their own
, more power to you.
That's why we do these podcasts.
That's why I have all thearticles up on my website and
even have a free leaky gut book,that sort of thing, just to
help people go through it andrealize, hey, you can do a lot
on your own at home.
(38:45):
Get the Paleo diet, try to doan elimination diet.
Remove the foods that are mostcommon, see if that helps.
Try Chinese Coptus, try some ofthese herbs, and if not, we're
here for you or we can findsomeone local to you, something
like that.
Just reach out, we're here tohelp.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
All right, you'll have Dr Gabe's contact
information on mine below in theshow notes, but other than that
, that's it for this episode,and stay tuned for the next
episode, which we're gonna coverQ&A or questions that we got
off of Instagram, where you canfind us, of course, on Instagram
, and we'll answer some basicQ&A that we get.
They're actually pretty complex, so we hope to see you on the
next show.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
All right, see you then.
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