Mastering Anxiety: From Understanding Its Roots to Holistic Treatment Approaches

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Ever wondered what's the secret behind mastering your anxiety and revolutionizing your mental health? Prepare to unlock the gateways to understanding and treating anxiety from its root cause. This episode tackles the varying manifestations of anxiety, from feelings of being overwhelmed to the inability to shut your mind down, and the often confusing task of differentiating between health anxiety and other forms. We also debunk common misconceptions about hormone imbalances and anxiety, shedding light on the importance of seeking help from medical practitioners. 

Allow us to guide you on an exploration of the gut-brain axis and neurotransmitter imbalances as a holistic approach to managing anxiety. You'll appreciate our focus on GABA - a key neurotransmitter in reducing anxiety symptoms, the potential of an autoimmune disorder called GABA 65, and the role of traditional treatments such as medications and lifestyle changes. You can't afford to miss our insights on the powerful force of dopamine and diet in managing anxiety and depression, and the eye-opening personal stories on dopamine deficiencies and the impact of medications. 

We conclude this invaluable journey by highlighting the importance of gut health in maintaining neurotransmitter balance, and the role diet plays in this process. From the use of levodopa supplements to examining the correlation between poor gut health and mental health, you'll gain actionable tips and strategies. We also discuss the use of herbs and supplements for managing anxiety - all tailored to help you transform your mental health journey. Be ready to look anxiety in the eye, armed with knowledge and solutions, after tuning into this episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Functional Medicine and Natural
Healing Podcast, where we sharethe secrets to upgrade your
digestion, improve your hormones, restore your immune system and
detoxify your body.
I'm your host, Dr HoustonAnderson.
Now let's get started.
The following discussion is foreducational purposes only.
It is not intended to diagnoseor treat any disease or disease

(00:24):
process.
Always discuss any medicaltreatments or medical
interventions with your personalphysician.
All right guys.
Welcome back to the podcast.
I'm Dr Anderson and we got DrGabe today.
How are you, Doc, Doing?
Well, man, how are you?
I'm doing okay.
Busy morning so far, but justenough time before we see the
patients to get in a littlepodcast on a very popular topic

(00:44):
called anxiety.
So let me ask you that whatpercentage of your patients have
, I'll say, in addition to theirprimary complaint, have some
form of anxiety with it?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's got to be high 60, 70, maybe even 80 percent.
It's common.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, and we have to differentiate a little bit,
because I think today's podcastis going to be primarily about
true anxiety.
I like to help my patientsdifferentiate a little bit about
it.
So you come in and your stomachhurts all the time and maybe a
bloody stool or maybe yourheart's racing.
You're going to have somehealth anxiety and that's kind

(01:23):
of concern about your condition.
And I like to tell them likeit's pretty normal to feel like
your condition is kind of you'reworried about your health, but
then there's different types ofanxiety.
So that's kind of more of thesevere anxiety.
So why don't you describe amore typical kind of primary
concern anxiety patient for youSure?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So when this is more on the extreme level, we're
going to see, like, obviously,the anxiousness, the
restlessness, the nervousness,and then it kind of
differentiates and we're goingto get to that in a little bit
of how different anxieties canpresent themselves.
But in general you're going tohave like this inability to shut
off your mind.
You're going to have to beoverwhelmed easily, maybe prone

(02:06):
to a panic attack, but it'sgoing to be much more severe
than somebody who's, like,worrying over their health
issues.
Like there are worry words outthere, we know them Like we know
what they're like.
They're worrying about everylittle thing, but that's not
necessarily anxiety.
This is almost not necessarilydebilitating, though it can be,

(02:27):
but it does get in the way ofnormal activities to a large
degree.
And you can have minor and thenyou can have some major ones
where they're not even goingoutside, they're not going to
the store, they're not doinganything of that sort, because
it just overwhelms them easily.
But the more minor one, yeah,they're heart races, they're

(02:48):
nervous to come into the officeto meet us and they're just
constantly talking, constantlyworried, maybe even sweating to
a degree, and then they're justkind of a wreck.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I like that you mentioned overwhelm, because I
feel like some of my patientsconfuse actually their hormone
imbalance with this, almost likea neurotransmitter or a
chemical overwhelm, which isslightly different.
But differentiating is going todefinitely give you a result
where if you confuse, say, anoverwhelm feeling with a hormone
imbalance now they could beboth at the same time but if you

(03:23):
confuse them, then you're goingto go treat hormones all day
long and you're still going tohave some anxiety or mental
health issues that you can'tresolve, and vice versa, I guess
right.
So if you have hormone issuesand you think you have
depression or anxiety, you maynot be able to fix them
naturally, but you won't be ableto if you go the wrong route.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
So let's talk about some stats Real quick before we
move on.
I actually love that youbrought that up because I mean,
how often do you get some of thein their main complain is
hormone imbalance and it's like,yeah, there could be some
estrogen dominance there, butoftentimes they're still
thinking it's deeper than justplain estrogen dominance,
dealing with liver, gallbladderdetoxification and other things

(04:03):
they think like their ovaries orsomething like that is crazy
out of whack.
But in reality we have all thisgut stuff and thyroid affected
and other things that arecausing these symptoms and
instead of what they're thinkingit is, yeah, and once again,
that's the big benefit of thedoctor.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
You know, once again, both of us are offering phone
consoles right now.
Mine are a little bit slower toget to.
I don't know where.
Dr Gabe, how far out are youright now?
Thank you, december maybe, yeah,and you know, when I hired my
associate Dr Donahoe here, Igave people the warning.
I was like, hey, look, you'vegot about six months to get in
with him, but he's going to beslammed too, like there's no

(04:42):
lack of sick people out there orpeople that need help.
So I always tell people andit's funny because I still have
posts on Facebook back when Iused to do that a little bit
more from years ago when I toldpeople now's the cheapest time
to get help.
It's still expensive, but it'sthe cheapest time because next
year everyone's prices go up.
That's how it works every time,just like your home price.

(05:04):
And then now's the easiest timeto get in with a practitioner.
That's good because, much likemyself, the busier we get, the
less time we have to take on newpatients.
And we already have patientsand they have kids and they have
cousins, and that's kind of howI do.
Mine is we build out throughfamilies and referrals only
right now.
So just something to note giveone of us a call, get on our

(05:24):
online schedule, go on ourwebsites, find us, and that's
going to be a probably.
What we talked about today isjust you're going to be able to
get to some of the routes betterwith a decent practitioner than
chasing these on your own,because it can be a little bit
confusing.
So, all right, stats wise,about 20% of adults are affected
by anxiety.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
That's huge, yeah, it's crazy and most of them are
under treated, not even awarethat they have this, but 20% of
them are clinically would beclinically identified or
diagnosed with this issue.
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, and I could go off on this topic a lot.
I do think that all of us needto differentiate between anxiety
and fear and worry, right, Ithink, especially since we're
going to get to the kids stats.
Age 13 to 18 is 32% of kids,but that's up like in the total
amount of people that areaffected by it.
Of those 32%, the prescriptiondosage is up like 40% in that

(06:24):
group in the last five years.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I can't even believe the amount of kids in that range
age range that are on SSRIs.
I mean, obviously we've seenfor a number of years Adderall
and other things for that agegroup, but I just can't believe
the amount that are on someantidepressant.
It's insane.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, it's a lot and it's concerning and it changes
the population, especially forthe teenagers.
It's hard.
We don't all have the skills,we're not as tough as we used to
be, and I'll just say that fromthe perspective of like my
grandpa was way tougher than Iever was.
I'm sure my life is just alittle cushy now, but just
something to know and then onceagain learning those skills.

(07:05):
By no means I would say I'm nota trained psychotherapist, I
have no skills in that at all.
But what I can tell you is thatthe more skills you have, the
better you do in life.
I can just tell you that as anadult, the more emotional skills
you can develop.
And obviously this podcast isnot about when someone needs
medication and the diagnosis.
It's about what causes thesekind of feelings and imbalances

(07:27):
at the root level, rather thanare you really anxious?
That's not my point.
My point is not to diagnosepeople today.
My point is to tell people ifyou feel these things, what can
we look at?
Right, yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
And then when to seek help?
Essentially is like how severeis this and if it's really
debilitating, probably time toseek help.
So you're not trying to do iton your own.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, and I think that's one of the beautiful
things about natural medicine islike you should always seek
help with natural medicine, likealmost immediately, right,
that's the best way to do it.
And then there's no real dangerto trying something natural
first, right, and then obviouslyyou're going to probably need
professional help if it's moresevere, but there's no danger to
starting out right away withsomething natural.
You take a 13 year old kid thatyou know, I don't know just

(08:13):
doesn't want to go to school asmuch anymore, it doesn't want to
hang out with friends as much.
Okay, low level kind of anxiety, depression, whatever's going
on, social phobia is like.
You can then address thatimmediately with natural
medicine.
And then, if it progresses,yeah, then you have
professionals that specialize inthese things, right.
So, anyway, you know, and withadolescents, you know, suicides,
a huge thing that we have to beaware of, connected with

(08:36):
anxiety, depression, a lot ofdifferent things, but these are
some of the things we'll talkabout.
We'll overlap with that.
What else, doc, and some stats.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Well, the one that's kind of Always on the upfront,
like on the front of my mind,for the adolescents, especially
as social media Right, we're allon it to a certain degree.
That's kind of a little bit forlike business and other things
in addition to maybe justpersonal use.
But the stats for adolescentsare absolutely frightening.

(09:07):
Yeah, they're getting on it,especially before the age of 16.
They're seeing it's not just atiny spike as a huge spike in
self-harm, suicide, anxiety,depression, etc.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's really really scary how much I wish I would
have pulled up some of thosestats, but yeah, I think that
that's uh, you know it's gonnahit a lot of parents and I don't
know I'm gonna say in the wrongplace.
They're not gonna be happy thatwe said that because honestly,
I mean a girl or boy thatdoesn't have Social media before
the age of 16 in my state,where I'm at, is like hard to

(09:44):
find right.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, I mean we got a couple, but they're like our
nieces and nephews.
A couple of them don't.
But if if somebody wants tolook up the stats on this, look
up Jonathan height, h-a-i-d-tand then type in social media.
He has several articles on it.
He's a psychologist out of NYU.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and then, once again, I don't know why I'm
giving parenting tips here, butlike we'll say, we'll say, like
you know, if your kids alreadyhas a cell phone, already has
social media, you know, I'm surehe has some stat on there on
like how to just cut back thattime limit, the hours you know,
can you, can you keep it in areasonable range, because we
know that kids don't know how tomanage their time too well.
We have these silly parents,even us as adults.

(10:28):
You know, go ahead and tell meif you manage your time
perfectly.
But I don't Definitely gettinga rabbit hole.
It could be research rabbithole.
I could spend hours studyingherbs and I'm like I got yard
work to do but I'm just gonnastudy all day long and so wait
there.
Jordan work to do in Arizonaweeds so, and you either got to

(10:48):
spray them and kill yourself or,you know, pick a few yourself.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
So Right now, because I grew up not allergic to
poison IV and well, now I am soand you got a lot in your area.
Yeah, but I got a little bit ofmy backyard and I wasn't paying
attention.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Ah, so I didn't see you as an anxiety.
Let's talk about them.
Ah, restless, nervous, racingheart, right.
So I always say like is itthere, what else?
What else do you see?
Most common, I guess those aremy, my two sleep issues like
insomnia.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
That's a pretty big one.
Or they wake up in the middleof the night and can't get back
to sleep, have a hard timegetting to sleep.
Sometimes they may Need like anoise machine or the TV or
something like that on Beforethey go to sleep.
Before they go to sleep, one ofthe big, on big ones is like a
sense of impending doom,something bad is coming, and no

(11:39):
matter you know how good thingsare, they're just like oh no,
something's around the corner.
Or intrusive thoughts I thinkthat's a big one that might get
unnoticed where people Aren'tSharing what's coming into their
minds because they are like Idon't want to share.
That's embarrassing.
But in reality it's not yourthoughts, it's just intrusive

(12:00):
thoughts, meaning there arethoughts that you're not Wanting
to come in and then you'retrying to push them out, but yet
they keep coming in.
So there's something behindthat and people will feel guilt
about that.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, it's interesting, those are, those
are both.
Like I mean, the things yousaid were just kind of you see
them all the time, like I justgoing back to misdiagnosis.
How many people come in and sayI can't sleep but really have
like an overadrenaline story,like you know that, like it's
not really a sleep issue, it's ait's it will call out closer to
an anxiety that's going on allday long.
Um, I had a lady yesterday thatmentioned the word doom.

(12:37):
Little clinical pearl I alwaysthrow out is actually I never
hear my patients say doom unlessthey have a heavy metal issue,
right, a weird one, like likethe word doesn't come out.
They may say fear, they may sayDepression, anxiety, whatever
word they use.
But as soon as I hear the worddoom I'm like, oh man, there's
metals and I don't know why thatis.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Um, I mean, I haven't really, to my knowledge, heard
anyone say doom, so it's not acommon word, right?

Speaker 1 (13:04):
So that's why whatever hits, I'm like, oh,
what is that like?
And so over time I've had acouple just crazy cases with
actual, like obvious metaltoxicity before, um, you know
blue water coming out the spoutand you know things like that
where it's just copper toxic,and and that's where I kind of
picked up on the hints and thenI just followed up on them over
time.
So that's a terrific yeah.

(13:26):
So, um, excessive sweating itobviously an excessive nervous
system issue, um, concentrationissues, um, waking up in the
middle of the night, um, isgoing to be similar to these
anxieties, meaning like you goto sleep just fine, but you wake
up over and over and over, um,and then, yeah, I mean, you're
just watching how much I thinkpanic attacks are pretty common.

(13:47):
Those can be really problematic, right?

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, they can and and people are scared to death.
How many times do we hearsomebody who has a panic attack
and they call 911, which is itfeels like they're having a
heart attack, but that's notwhat's going on.
They're just having a panicattack, which people grate
gratefully.
Our emergency personnel aretrained for that.
They know rather well for that.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, actually funny enough.
Ribs are the more confusing onefor the professionals, right?
Like so mean you have a rib out, it's causing heart pain and
that.
That.
That kind of throws them offfor a few hours at the er and
then they send you home andyou're okay, but uh, that one
will throw you off, okay, uh,conventional approach to anxiety
.
What are you seeing there?

Speaker 2 (14:28):
SSRIs are probably the most common.
That's your selective serotoninreuptake inhibitor.
So what that does is like, mostof the time we're going to
think serotonin in the medicalfield, the conventional approach
and so with serotonin it'sbeing released in the neuron and
then it's going to hang out inthe synapse.
So that's just the spacebetween the neuron and the next

(14:48):
one and In that area serotoninis hanging out.
But we're going to try to Stopit from being taken back into
the neuron itself.
So that's actually what thatmedication does keep serotonin
there a little longer.
So you feel better becausewe're going to get into it a
little bit.
Serotonin has a big role toplay in certain depression and

(15:08):
anxiety, uh related ones.
But outside of that there'slike tricyclic Antidepressants.
There's benzodiazepines, whichare pretty big that's probably
the next most common Xanax thatsort and then of course those
ones are like heavily, heavilyAddiction related, like you can
get addicted to those prettyquick.
Then of course, therapy.

(15:29):
Therapy is a big one.
They're going to recommend yougo into therapy.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, and I think, yeah, people.
I mean I hear that all the timeI'm a lot of patients that don't
want to go back to therapybecause maybe they didn't have a
good experience.
I would say therapists are muchlike chiropractors you got to
find the one that you like.
You got to find the one thatworks for you, that resonates
with you, that that strategizeswith you.
Um, you know, because honestly,in my practice I always, if I
were to ask my patientpopulation I take a hundred of

(15:55):
them and I said, hey, go liftheavy weights I would guess that
80% of them would say I'm notinterested in lifting heavy
weights, but that 80% of themwould be willing to cut out
gluten, dairy corn, soy andnightshades.
It's like a weird population,right?
They're willing to do all thediet work but not really weren't
willing to do the exercise work, which is fine.
I'm just saying we all kind ofresonate on different levels.

(16:17):
So I don't sit there and teachmy patients how to lift weights
though they probably should, butbecause it doesn't resonate
with them.
So it just depends on who youare.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
And then there's a crazy amount of good research of
exercise and anxiety anddepression right.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, it's the most research, right.
Getting outside and exercisingseems to be the most effective
for all mental health disorderscombined, right?
So that's pretty crazy, justcause we have a note here, kind
of in our show notes, of theyjust keep trying to mix things
up to change the medications toget the adequate result.

(16:51):
I see that a lot.
It's sad, because what happensis you think you're addressing
it and it's not workingadequately, and then you often
end up in an urgent state andit's just not fun to be there.
And so these are reasons why ata minimum you should use
holistic medicine.
So let's say you're on amedication that's fine, but you

(17:12):
should use holistic medicine totry and get that symptom as
minimal as possible.
Right, we wanna get to whereyou're like almost close to.
Okay, all the time, a littlebit of medication.
There's a book called NutrientPower.
I don't know if you've everread a doc.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
I've seen it.
I haven't had the opportunityto read that one.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, so nutrient power is really cool.
But I can't remember hisprofession, but he has a lot of
research in there.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
But the point is I'm just gonna go with what you're
talking about.
Let me just pull it up realquick, walsh, I think yeah, yeah
, there you go.
Yeah, well, no, I have readthat one.
I was mixing it up with anotherone.
No, excellent book, excellentbook.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
And one of my favorite conclusions he comes to
is that once you get someonebalanced, the lowest dose of
medication, even in the mostsevere cases, keeps them the
most stable for the longestperiod of time.
So while traditional thoughtprocess is like, oh, I need more
right, Like up the dose, whathe found is if you could balance
out some of your things andobviously he's big into

(18:11):
pyrolysis disorder or B6 zincratios and things like that but
if you can get everything kindof calmed down a little bit, you
find that you don't need sevenmedications.
They do better on one and a lowdose than the seven.
That was one of the coolesttakeaways I took.
I also really loved it becausehe had a lot of information on
schizophrenia, which I justthink is a fascinating condition

(18:32):
.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Right, right.
Yeah, it's fascinating.
I don't ever have any patientsthat have schizophrenia, but
it's fascinating to read aboutand learn what you could do.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I've had one or two and the unfortunate part is
like you can't really get themoff the medication, but you can
get them stable to where they'relike, hey, I haven't had any
episodes, I haven't had anythinghappen, whereas previously they
were on the medications andstill kind of like on edge, if
that makes sense.
So I've had good success withit, combining it with the
medications, but it's too riskyfor most severe cases to just

(19:04):
say like, oh, let's try to getthem all off.
It's not always my goal, youknow, really, and I haven't had
a patient that had that goal oflike absolutely I just they just
wanted to live some type of anormal life.
Right, yeah, that makes sense.
All right, natural.
What are we gonna do?
What's a little bit differentabout our approach?
So they're doing mostly drugs.
You know rarely anything else,to be honest.
You know a little bit oflifestyle, definitely some talk

(19:26):
therapy, which is great.
What else are we doing a littlebit different in our offices?

Speaker 2 (19:31):
For us.
We're going to, of course, lookat gut and several other things
.
That's actually one of thesymptoms we didn't mention.
It's really common for them tohave GI issues.
But there's a real big reasonwe're gonna look at gut, similar
to how we look at gut for manyother things.
But there's a strong, strongconnection between your gut and
your brain, called the gut brainaxis, and so even our gut,

(19:52):
which is like the second brain.
So it's where a good portion ofyour nervous system tissue is
that we use serotonin, we usedopamine there.
So what we want to do asnatural healthcare practitioners
is tease out are we dealingwith a GABA issue?
Are we dealing with a dopamineissue or serotonin issue?
That's probably the big thingsthat we're gonna be looking at

(20:13):
when somebody comes in with realanxiety.
We want to know which one ofthese are we dealing with.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Or is it a?

Speaker 2 (20:22):
combo or something.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think you just like.
You just said something that noone knows out there.
I just want to bring attentionto it that we just talked about
three different types of anxietyand everyone thinks it's maybe
just a serotonin issue, right,or they don't even get into
these, they're just like, okay,what can I take that's a downer
from anxiety?
What can I take to help mesleep?
Not getting to the root cause?

(20:44):
Okay, yeah, so these are littlebrain chemicals that work, and
addressing brain chemicals alonewith medication doesn't
actually work.
So the research says that justbalancing neurotransmitters as a
chemical imbalance, like wewere told for many, many years,
is not something that works.
What you have to do is balancethe neurotransmitters by
addressing a root cause, bygetting a little bit deeper.

(21:06):
And by getting deeper now youcan micromanage your
neurotransmitters just a littlebit versus before.
Like, say, your gut's horrible.
You're never gonna be able tomicromanage your
neurotransmitters, but fix thegut, fix your liver, fix the
adrenal system.
Now you can start to play withthese and really dial in what
you need as a human.
So and we're- all slightlydifferent.

(21:26):
What do?
You think about what's firstneurotransmitter you want to
talk about, Doc?

Speaker 2 (21:31):
So GABA?
Gaba is your main inhibitoryneurotransmitter.
It's probably the strongest onelinked to panic attacks.
So when we create GABA, we'recreating it from the opposite,
which is the excitatoryneurotransmitter, glutamate.
Now with glutamate, if you havetoo much of that you're gonna
be over excited, which can insome instances cause headaches.

(21:54):
It can cause epilepsy, likeseizures and stuff like that.
It's gonna be related to a lotof those things.
So with glutamate toxicity,sometimes you gotta think about
what you're eating.
So like monosodium glutamate,msg and some of those things.
But really the issue is we'rehaving a hard time creating GABA
.
For some reason we're notconverting there.

(22:15):
We're not converting glutamateto GABA.
Now there is an autoimmune.
I don't know if you've seen anyof these people.
I have not seen a GABA 65autoimmune where they're having
an issue there creating GABAfrom glutamate.
But that is one of theautoimmunes that are out there.
Right, it seems like it's verynot common.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I haven't seen autoimmune.
I had someone yesterday thathad the GABA 65, a genetically
tested, but I haven't actuallyseen them go out of autoimmunity
yet.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Okay, yeah, me either .
So, but the classic thing here,like it's the thing that's
shutting down your brain,helping you to be calm, helping
you to go to sleep, that sort ofthing.
But you're gonna seeoverwhelmed which overwhelm kind
of overlaps with all of them,right, but panic attacks,
feelings of dread, the epilepsy,seizures for those who have
that Guilt, for no reason at alldisorganize attention.

(23:07):
And this is the person that'ssleeping with the TV on this is
the person that's having a hardtime getting asleep.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
I think yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Now go ahead and get it doc, the only other thing I
was gonna say they can't quiettheir mind.
Their minds is constantlyracing, and so they just cannot
quiet their mind.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Let's go a little bit out of order and let's talk
about why they may not be ableto convert into GABA.
We're going to do this at theend, but what are some of those
deficiencies that you see?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
The big thing, probably the most common when
you're trying to createglutamate to GABA, you need
essentially a few differentcofactors.
This is where we talk aboutvitamins, we talk about minerals
, we talk about themicronutrients, but we just
throw out vitamin C or vitamin Dor maybe B1, but we never
really talk about why does yourbody need those?

(23:55):
The majority of the time thereare cofactors in creating
different things within the body.
To do that pathway glutamate toGABA you're going to need
things like zinc, magnesium, b6.
I end on B6 because that'sprobably by far the most common.
When I see there Specificallyfor me, I will test the active

(24:19):
form.
Sometimes you just have anissue making the active form but
periodoxyl 5-phosphates theactive form.
Sometimes you need some other,like zinc or something like that
, to help create it.
Generally that's the mostcommon one.
I do see magnesium and maybeeven zinc from time to time, but
that is probably the mostcommon thing that I'm going to

(24:41):
see if they need assistancecreating GABA.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
I love that B6 by far for all neurotransmitters, by
far my favorite one.
Something to mention for thosethat don't know a cofactor is
just something that's requiredto make the reaction happen.
I always say you don't havechocolate chip cookies without
chocolate chips, that B6 is thechocolate chips.
You got to have B6 in order tomake the cookie.

(25:06):
You're not making GABA.
I don't mind talking aboutcookies on here, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
They're gluten-free.
We use the natural.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
The other thing to know there that you said is
these cofactors or thesevitamins that are required to
make things happen.
This is the most common reasonfor neurotransmitter imbalances.
It's a missing cofactor andwhat you find, and then
detoxification, elimination.
Gaba is all about production.
I don't know if I've ever seensomeone too much GABA.

(25:43):
It's all about not havingenough GABA, not being able to
calm down.
I think signs and symptoms inmy office, lack of GABA is
usually what I find is even ifthey can get overstimulated, but
they're the type of person thatstays overstimulated for too
long.
Someone makes you mad andthey're like okay, five minutes
later you cool down, you're allright, no big deal.

(26:03):
Someone gets mad and thencannot calm down and this is
most either liver or GABA issues.
They're there for two or threehours.
The other thing just keepsgoing on them and, assuming that
they don't have a deep, severeanxiety or depression or
anything like that, it's makingthat happen.
The GABA people get stimulatedand have a hard time calming
down.

(26:24):
Let's move to dopamine.
I love dopamine because I thinkit's a huge issue in today's
society.
We talked about social mediaand that's one of the real
issues of why dopamine is such abig issue because it gives us
that hit.
We all in today's day and age,at least in America I don't know
about other countries, but weare taking hits of dopamine 24-7
.
We all essentially have somekind of dopamine receptor

(26:49):
dysfunction, meaning we get toomuch dopamine, we get too much
stimulation.
I would say try to drive inyour car for an hour in silence,
see how you feel.
Who can do it, who can turn offthe radio and not listen to a
podcast, not think aboutsomething, not pull up their
phone at a stoplight or whatever.
All of us have this dopamineissue.
How does it show up in thepractice, doc?

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Dopamine, I think, is the most commonly missed one.
I've at least been in myopinion and I might be biased
towards that because I had adopamine problem.
I still see it as the onethat's missed.
Commonly, gaba shows up, butdopamine, I think, is the one I
see most common and that mightbe just my practice.
But dopamine itself, ormotivation, especially in the

(27:37):
morning, that's going to be abig one.
Sometimes they're usingcaffeine because caffeine helps
with dopamine.
Sometimes you'll be seeing them.
Well, I can't do anything untilI have my cup of coffee in the
morning.
The other thing that happenswith dopamine that's different
is you have feelings ofworthlessness and hopelessness.
It's not just like guilt for noreason.

(27:59):
You just feel hopeless, youfeel worthless, you hate
yourself.
In some instances, if it'sreally bad, you can have some
self-destructive thoughts andthat leads into that.
But like the other ones, youcan't handle stress super well.
This is a little bit morepointed towards dopamine, though
.
Irritable, this is irritabledepression, when we're talking

(28:21):
about different forms ofdepression and if we're having
that overlap with anxiety,there's a difference between it
and serotonin, which we'll talkabout in a minute.
The other dopamine is thatirritable on edge, can easily
lose your temper depression.
They also will have aninability to finish tasks.
You'll want to get things donebut you just don't.

(28:44):
Then low libido is actually abig one.
We wouldn't think about it.
But yeah, we know as naturaldoctors how it ties over.
The last thing and this one Ifind it's hard for people to
admit, and that's apathy.
You actually have a lack ofconcern for others.
I think that's hard for peopleto commit to actually admit to,

(29:07):
because we don't want to saythat that I don't have a lack of
concern for somebody else.
When you actually are true toyourself and you look at the
past when you were doing good,compared to when you're not
doing so good, you don't havethat much of a concern,
partially because you'reisolating yourself from others.
You're just like I don't reallywant to go out, I don't want to
go to that church event, Idon't want to go to that
friend's house, that sort ofthing.

(29:28):
You're isolating yourself.
If you don't mind, I'm actuallygoing to talk about my personal
story with dopamine.
Yeah, I'd love to hear it On mymission.
So I was a missionary for twoyears in Africa.
I had some instances beforehand.
I remember having a panicattack, so I wouldn't doubt if I
had an overlap a little bitwith GABA.
Yeah, just because, like youwere saying, with B6, it's

(29:51):
needed for every single one ofthem.
I wouldn't doubt that'sprobably what I had.
It was a B6 deficiency when Iwas a missionary there.
As a missionary, you're notallowed to do anything other
than certain things within it.
You're not allowed to watch TV,you're not allowed to listen to
popular music.
Your sole purpose is to focuson what you're doing.

(30:11):
I was in an area that we weredone by five o'clock because it
got dark.
There was nothing else to do.
You had a good five hours toyourself with nothing to do.
I started getting this feelingsof hopelessness and
worthlessness.
All these things started reallycoming in.

(30:33):
I wouldn't get to sleep becausemy mind would be racing through
that stuff and feeling guilty.
I wouldn't get to sleep untilsix in the morning.
As missionaries, you'resupposed to get up at 6.30.
That went on and on.
I felt like I was going crazy.
I would try to sleep during theday, take a nap.
I might get like 10 weeks andthen be able to go on.

(30:58):
The thing that was difficult waswhen I went to the medical
doctor and described what wasgoing on.
There was like, yeah, it soundslike serotonin here, take this.
They gave me Paxil and Xanax.
That's the first time I've evertaken Xanax.
Of course, I took it whiledriving.
Don't recommend, don't do that.
Nevertheless, what it ended updoing to me I felt emotionally

(31:20):
dead, that's all.
Nothing really changed.
I felt emotionally dead.
I was able to sleep again, butthat's what it felt like, and it
wasn't until I was inchiropractic school.
Of course, when I got home andI was doing normal stuff, I
found coping measures and Ididn't need the medications
anymore.
It was always there in the backof my mind and there are
instances where I would getreally bad.
It wasn't until I was inchiropractic school in a

(31:42):
functional medicine coursestudying neuro-biochemistry.
Lo and behold, here's all thesymptoms listed for dopamine.
I'm like I have every singleone of those.
That's when I was able to turnit around and fix it.
But that's how important thisstuff is, teasing it out,
because you can chase serotoninall day long and it's a dopamine
problem.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Why do you?
I mean just because we're onyour personal.
Well, first I have one questionjust out of curiosity what part
of Africa were you in?
South Africa?
South Africa, it was probablydangerous at night too, so you
can go out.
Certain regions are.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
That area wasn't as bad.
You just didn't want to knockdoors because people didn't want
you knocking doors at night,especially because of the danger
.
That area was actually a littlesafer of an area, but there
definitely were times whereyou're dumb if you're going
walking around.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
I've had a couple of patients from South Africa.
So curious.
What were some of the thingsyou said?
You were able to figure it outonce you saw that dopamine list.
Let's just go over the Dr Gabestory and what his protocol was
that worked for him, because Iknow a lot of people want to
know.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Let me actually describe a little further.
At its worst, other than one ortwo panic attacks I had
previous to my mission, I didn'treally have too many afterwards
or during, but at its worst Iremember being in front of
somebody trying to teach them,just talk to them about things.
I just mid-sentence stared offinto the distance and I just

(33:11):
started trembling, started doingthis.
That was crazy.
That was at the worst time.
What ended up fixing it?
As I was studying, of course,we started learning about B6.
We started learning some ofthese things.
I didn't know hardly anythingat the time.
In the functional medicinecourse they tell you to take
certain supplements.

(33:32):
I took one that had tyrosine,which is the precursor, had
mucuna purines, which I don'treally use, but it had that in
there.
Mucuna purines has naturalcurrent L-dopa and that's why
Then B6, all the cofactors werein it.
I took that and that helped.

(33:53):
It helped to a point.
What I really needed to do wasfix my gut.
That was the biggest thing.
I had to get my healthcompletely in order and stop
just essentially masking it bysupplementing it.
I love it.
There was a reason behind itand that's the big thing.

(34:15):
It helped for sure while I wasin chiropractic school, but it
wasn't until some steps laterthat I realized no, I got to get
all this stuff in order because, as healthy as we were trying
to be in chiropractic school,there's only so much you can do.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
It's tough, money's tough in chiropractic, school
Time is tough and you'restressed out and you're trying
to learn all this new stuff andhow to incorporate it.
Yeah, there's a lot to it.
Yeah, a couple of things onthat that.
You said the gut, so just anote.
The gut can make up to 50% ofyour dopamine right.
Yep, somewhere between the statchanges every day.
Somewhere between 75% and 95%of your serotonin is going to be

(34:55):
made in there.
I see different numbers thrownout all the time.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
One thing to note there, that every single neuro
guy will tell you they do notcross the blood-brain barrier.
There is some theory that theymight through the vagus nerve.
We have not proven that, butthe one thing is for sure if
you're not creating it in yourgut, you're probably not
creating it in your brain.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, so I guess that's a great way to think of
it.
Yeah, so while they discussthat there may be no connection,
yet there are correlations.
There's a correlation theremaybe not a direct connection,
and we see that a lot in healthissues.
Right, there's a correlationwith poor gut health and poor
mental health.
Though if you were to actuallysay, can I draw a line directly
to each other, no, there'sprobably like seven stops in

(35:40):
between.
That's interesting there.
I thought when you weredescribing dopamine earlier just
to go back, because I wasactually listening to Dr
Charlie's podcast on this itmade a good point.
He was saying we put all ofthese people on their SSRIs or
their antidepressants or theiranti-anxiety meds, and then, of

(36:00):
course, the side effect is thatlow libido, which is that
dopamine issue that youmentioned.
I would say, well, how does Imean and once again, I love Dr
Charlie because he gets a littlebit controversial what I liked
in that was simply that Ithought, well, what if you put a
14-year-old boy on a SSRI andnow he has low 14-year-old boy
libido, right, not a real thing,but he's learning how to have

(36:23):
interest in the opposite genderand he loses that right.
And so that's one of thebiggest things I like to talk
about, not just in teenagers,but adult males.
Right Now, half of ourmotivation is to take care of
our family, take care of ourwife.
Conquer the world essentiallyis where you see these issues.
And what you've said is likewith that dopamine issue

(36:45):
inability to start or finish atask right, inability to have
the desire they just don't feellike.
Okay, well, I'll just work mycorporate job for the rest of my
life.
I don't need to go and be aboss.
I get to tell you how many ofmy patients in that state have
said well, I don't want topromotion, it's just too much
work.
Right, and that was never athing before, right.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
And then you're seeing that strong connection
between dopamine andtestosterone.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
For sure A major driver.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
That's the thing that drives you and there is a
strong connection.
That's why there's low libido.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
there is a strong connection between the two of
them and everyone chases thetestosterone, but no one wants
to talk about the dopamine issue.
Every male is like, oh, I thinkI need more testosterone,
because they're not motivated.
But really it's the dopamineissue.
And then, even going back tokind of what you said, isolation
, irritability, don't want to goout, don't want to have fun,
don't see the reward andactivities you're doing.

(37:39):
So then what do you do?
You stay home.
You watch more TV.
Nowadays, you watch, play moreon social media, you eat a few
foods that are stimulating forthe dopamine.
And here you are you'rereinforcing down, regulating
those receptors.
So now you're less sensitive todopamine.
So now you need more.
That's why, honestly, that thelevodopa supplement, even if you

(38:02):
get isolated mukuna I don't seeit at work home runs very often
.
It's a rare case where I seehome runs, so that's an
interesting one.
Okay, let's skip on toserotonin, because this is
probably what everyone wants totalk about all the time.
So let's go over it.
What do you see?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
So it is the lack of joy.
So it's not just joy in justrandom things, it's the things
you enjoy the most.
So let's say you're a baseballfanatic.
You no longer have joy in that.
You end up losing joy in allyour hobbies, your interests and
then even your life.
This is the person who doesn'twant to get out of bed.

(38:38):
It is your classic depression.
So they're overwhelmed, as wellas the other ones.
But they're overwhelmed withall the stuff that they have to
do, like the ideas that theyhave to manage and that sort of
thing.
They do get like an inner rageor an unprovoked anger.
So you get some overlap herewith dopamine, where you can
kind of have a hard timedifferentiating.

(38:59):
But one of the things they haveis they have a sadness for no
reason at all.
They're just in the dumps.
That's kind of it.
So dopamine is your irritabledepression.
These guys are the down in thedumps depression.
So insomnia is big here.
Paranoia at times.
They may like anything withcreativity, because joy is gone.

(39:22):
They're going to lack that.
They do end up becoming a bitdependent on others.
And then susceptibility to painthat's another big one.
So they may be a little bitmore hypersensitive.
The last one and I think thisone's important is abdominal
migraines.
Not all of them have it, butabdominal migraines is like

(39:43):
having migraines in your gut.
So you get these random painand other gut symptoms that will
come from maybe a short periodof time to like 72 hours,
something like that, and then itcomes in random times
reoccurring.
So that's a big thing that youwill see, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I think when I think about serotonin, I do like the
loss of joy as the statementthere.
Funny enough, like you said, ifwe go through these loss of joy
or say serotonin versusdopamine, you do find that
people present more dopaminebased At least how they describe
how they feel.
Definitely more of that.

(40:24):
I've seen quite a few cases ofparanoia people describing
things to me that are just 100%illogical.
Maybe the government has adrone that flies in their house
at night and stuff like that.
Weird things, right, you'relike huh, that'd be hard.
Do you lock your doors?
Yeah, I lock the doors, butthey got a special tool that

(40:44):
unlocks the doors and it's likehuh, this is interesting.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
I see that you can start thinking mania or
something with that, some sortof mania, yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
So slightly different there.
But that's where I was sayingthe difference between dopamine
and serotonin.
It's important that you findsomething that can differentiate
that for you We'll kind of makesure it's important that you
know the difference.
But yet at the same time, soclinically, dr Gabe and I can
kind of tease that out in theoffice, but individually you may
not be able to do it as much.

(41:14):
But I kind of want to bring itback to where the one thing that
everyone can do for allneurotransmitter conditions goes
back to the gut.
Am I wrong?
No, you're not wrong.
Fix the gut, yeah.
So I think you know peoplethink, oh, I have anxiety, I
have depression.
And I say you know, okay, haveyou, have you managed that gut?
Like you said, have you takencare of your parasites, viruses,

(41:35):
bacteria, fungi, irritants,cofactors in there?
All of those are going to allowyou to make more of these
neurotransmitters that you know.
Yeah, I'm just going to saycontribute to your total supply
in your body.
You want them in every tissue.
You don't want them ingestingyour brain, you want them in
every tissue so that the bodycan function like it should.

(41:55):
So, just going back to the gut,you know infections are the
most common.
Anything else you think ofspecifically with mental health?

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Food sensitivities, for sure.
I mean anything that's going tocause you from not like being
able to absorb foods proper, orabsorb things properly, anything
that's going to createinflammation, damage the gut,
then make you impaired to any ofthese sort of things.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
So yeah, and I think I'm just going to jump into that
diet story here and talk aboutthat a little bit.
So you know, we know thatinflammation is the most I'll
say, the most researched modelof anxiety and depression in the
world, right?
So we know that inflammationcauses a lot of these imbalances
.
So let's go back to where Isaid you have to balance a root

(42:37):
cause before you balance yourneurotransmitters.
Oftentimes, every once in awhile, you can just do
neurotransmitters, but the rootcauses of inflammation that
you're going to see that affectthe brain more so.
Dietary fat intake, right, soyou're taking in junky fats.
If you're someone that's prettybad into anxiety or depression,
you need to make sure thatyou're only eating grass-fed

(42:59):
type fats.
You're eating animal fats allof the time.
So I will say that, like you'regoing to be hard pressed to
find someone that eats regularred meat because that's all the
cofactors the brain needs, thathas a lot of anxiety or
depression, that doesn't havethe junk food in there, and I
would say I mean I'll probablyget a message or an email that

(43:22):
says, oh well, I eat perfectlyclean and I still have it.
Okay, that exists, right, but Iwould say probably 80% of the
people if they cut out the junkand convince themselves that
it's not just about vegetablesand they get some of those red
meat that has your B6, some ofyour zinc, some of your
magnesium, but your othercofactors, your folic acid, in
there too.
You're going to see a lot ofthat lifts how much, we don't

(43:43):
know always, but definitelythose inflammatory chemicals,
the seed oils, are a hugeproblem when it comes to this
and that gut health story.
So eating is the first thing,obviously, to get to that gut.
I would say what other factorsin the gut would you think of,
doc?
Do you think there's any otherones?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
I mean, you brought up the eating I said it earlier,
avoiding any excitonurotoxin.
So any food dies MSG, aspartame, any sort of processed eat,
whole foods.
So you mentioned meat, and Ilove that you mentioned red meat
100%.
But we need to avoid anyprocessed junk in addition to

(44:27):
your junk fats too, otherwiseyou're just adding fuel to the
fire and then you might need totease out the food sensitivities
, whether it's like gluten, soyor something like that.
In fact we probably should,because on average, most
patients have at least one kindof a thing.
And then the infections, whichwe've gone into detail before,

(44:49):
on those ones for sure.
I think that's pretty much thelevel that I would go at first.
That's my first thing that I'mgoing to hit on every single
patient, a patient, along withsupporting those specific
nutrients or neurotransmitters.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, I used to have a counselor that would send me a
lot of their children with someof these brain health kind of
disorders, so they'd be workingwith a family and they'd send me
a kid.
You know, because the parentswere looking for help and while
I appreciated the referral, theconcept was wrong because
oftentimes these parents wouldbe going through divorces or
separations and so they weren'treally able to implement the

(45:31):
most important thing of thedietary changes in the kids.
I know of one patient right nowwhere she just wants to drink
Red Bulls for breakfast and eata Twinkie for lunch and then
wants to find out why she'sdepressed, not to mention she
has additional health problems.

(45:52):
I'll just say other lifecircumstances that make life
hard.
So it's interesting to see andobviously we're educating and
it's coming along.
But if that's what you're doingto get your dopamine hits and
then you're hopping on socialmedia, the diet's going to play
a huge role.
So anyway, my point was I had tosend a lot of these kids away.

(46:13):
I wouldn't even accept them aspatients because I realized that
you know for sure they couldn'tgo gluten free if it was
required let alone.
I mean they weren't even goingto be able to cut out junk food.
They still had to eat out of avending machine when they were
between houses.
Mom and dad, they're at highschool or whatever, so it ends
up being really hard.
So, yeah, I think when a lot ofpeople say, well, I tried

(46:36):
everything for my health, Idon't always see that they
really did.
I see that they may have misseda few things and diet's going
to be the first thing to go.
We talked infections.
Do you have a most common foodfor some of the anxiety
disorders you see?

Speaker 2 (46:53):
I don't know if there is a most common one for mine.
I usually just think about likegeneral overview of my practice
.
Gluten is probably the mostcommon.
Then there's like nightshadesor soy or something like that.
Usually I don't think I've everpaid attention enough to see if
there was one with the anxiety.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, I mean I would say eggs dairy are pretty common
in general, my officeDefinitely.
If your kid is struggling withsomething, I'm thinking eggs
dairy first and then kind of itdevelops over time.
Gluten probably has the mostresearch for actually affecting
the nervous system and throwingit off.
But yeah, I mean, there's nevera one size fits all for
anything.
No, you're not All right.
I think we talked a little bitabout GABA conversion, some P5P,

(47:36):
so that's B6P5P.
You have zinc, you havemagnesium, you have making sure
that you're not getting too muchglutamate or even glutamine.
So a glutamine supplement withno B6 turns into anxiety.
So everyone wants to fix theirgut.
But if they're consuming aglutamine daily to fix their gut
and they don't have cofactors,it gets stuck in that in-between

(47:59):
state or actually turnsexcitotoxic.
Let's talk dopamine andserotonin.
What are your biggest onesthere?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
So I mean we're going to ride back to B6, right.
So B6 is kind of a big one.
Methylation comes into playhere.
So, early on as you'reconverting tyrosine into adopa
or even tryptophan intoserotonin, you're going to have
methylation factors there.
Same with as you're trying toget rid of dopamine too, like in
the norepinephrine, orserotonin, the melatonin, that

(48:27):
sort of thing, you're going tosee some methylation coming in.
So what we talked about withmethylation, we're talking about
the methylated B vitaminsmainly, though there are some
other methylation related thingslike Choline.
So methyl B9, methyl B12, someof those things will come into
play.
Irons there too, I rarely everI don't even know if I've seen

(48:49):
iron show up, but methylation isa big one Magnesium, zinc, that
sort of thing.
Serotonin specifically, thoughthere is a great herb that I've
seen help, and that's St John's.
I don't know if you use thatone, but St John's wort can be
rather helpful.
You just got to get a clean one, it's not just any day one from
your natural food store.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Right, I was thinking about the tyrosine and
tryptophan.
First of what you said.
I was like, okay, well, wheredo you get those from?
Right, that's protein.
Right, that's meat right.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
So how many times do you see that show up because
they're not eating meat?
I see it quite often.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Tyrosine all the time , less tryptophan, but I see
tyrosine all day long and infact I know a lot of doctors
holistic doctors, functionalmedicine doctors that use
tyrosine all the time as justkind of like a thyroid booster.
Right, but you get two thingsyou get a thyroid boost and you
get a brain boost.
So a lot of women specificallywill feel pretty good on
tyrosine in the morning.

(49:40):
That's a good little clinicalone there.
St John's makes people feelmore emotion, so I like to say
that.
So that's a good one.
The only caveat I'll say to StJohn's and sometimes it makes
people feel too much emotion.
So dosage on St John's is startlow and then make your way up

(50:02):
and then it does have druginteractions, right, so it does
have like.
So if you're already on an SSRIor something like that, I don't
use a ton of St John's for that.
What else and once again, Iguess with diet I was going to
just inflammation I can't tellyou.
I've heard this multiple timesand it will have you can

(50:23):
actually take now I'm notsuggesting this, but you'll find
that people will take ibuprofenand get out of anxiety tax
because it decreases thatinflammatory response
temporarily.
Now, of course, we got tofigure out why.
Fatty acid problem, right, right.
So you got a fatty acidimbalance once again junky fats,
not good fats, or justinadequate fats.

(50:43):
So that's a good one there.
How about just like kind ofsome downers that you might use
or some things that calm peopledown?

Speaker 2 (50:51):
So I like passion flower.
I see that one, probably themost common, and that's not like
your tropical passion flower,that's kind of the more United
States continental United States, not Hawaii.
So I is it in carnita or incarnada, I can't remember the
actual scientific name but I usepassion flower quite a bit.
You can actually grow them.

(51:12):
Where I'm at in Missouri, likewe're planning on growing some
next year some May pops, that'swhat they go by.
So that's a really good one.
You can make a tea out of theirleaves.
Of course they got reallypretty flowers.
Valerian's another big one.
I always warn people withValerian, depending on how
you're getting it, don't get iton your hands because it stinks
really bad.

(51:33):
And I've had it on my hands andthen I go to eat my lunch and
then I'm like, oh my gosh, whatis that?
But Valerian's like you'rereally helpful.
So those are the two probablybig ones that I will use in
addition to, like, p5p or zinc,any of the cofactors.
I'm sure there's other ones,but those are the ones I use.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yeah, we didn't cover it much here and we'll have to
do another adrenal podcast maybe.
Maybe even you know we need todial back some of these into
more specific, smaller concerns.
But I think adrenal herbs, soyou have to be careful.
When you have anxiety,depression, you don't actually
usually want a stimulator.
You want either a neutral or adowner is what I call it or a

(52:16):
relaxer.
So in that I would do like aRishi mushroom.
For sure, ashwagandha can begood or bad for many patients.
So it's on the list, butsometimes it'll get my patients
insomnia, even though it putsother patients directly to bed.
So that's one lithium I consideras an adrenal supplement.
So I find that lithium takesthe edges off.

(52:37):
So less highs, less lows, kindof how you described, you know,
when you were on your medication, of like having lack of feeling
.
Well, sometimes I'll uselithium to give people a little
less feeling, help them get outof some of the sometimes it's
even habits of anxiety, if thatmakes sense.
They were raised a certain way.
They were in an unsafeenvironment.
They can't, you know, theycan't think that life could be
safe and okay.

(52:57):
And I think if we turn on theTV these days, I mean we run
into that problem.
We have a lot of things goingon in the world right now.
What else would I use as anadrenal herb?
I do like the Chaga mushroom,usually in the morning, just to
support the adrenals, once againnot going up or down, just kind
of a neutral there.
Um, rhodiola I like another,another, you know, I do have

(53:20):
that one.
I yeah, I don't use it a ton,but I I once again, I classify
my adrenal tonics and like auppers, downers and neutrals and
I call rhodiola a neutral.
I don't find that people getover stemmed on it.
Um, and then the biggest thingI guess, kavya, that you
probably would agree with as faras like adrenal supplements, is
you don't want to get too muchadrenal cortex in you, uh,

(53:42):
because it'll just kind of makeyou fly off your handle.
It's too much.
You'll feel stressed all thetime if this is already your
predisposition.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Um, so we use a lot of like just straight desiccated
adrenals because of that stuff.
Like you gotta be careful withit.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, I, yeah, I don't use desiccated adrenal in
a stressed person.
I don't use DHEA in a stressedperson.
I'll use it occasionally in asuper worn down person that
doesn't show signs of any stress.
Right, those are where we'lluse them.
That, um and then.
So for the super stressedperson I use a lot for POTS or
dysautonomia, is I useDrenetrophin PMG.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
I'll use that one high, high doses more as like
the salts for the adrenal glands, so that I'm not stimulating
them, um, but I can use that inalmost any dose I want and they
can tolerate it in most cases.
Uh, because, yeah, definitelyin the in the dysautonomia cases
you find that any extra stemjust sets them off and they're
back in bed for the day, orsomething like that.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
That's why those PMGs are so good across the board.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Yeah, but that's been standard process makes those um
.
You know we can put the link inthe full script in the bio Um.
Any other thoughts on anxietythat we didn't cover today, doc?

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Oh, I think we did a pretty good job, covering pretty
much all of it.
It is as hard as it is to beanxious and as hard as it is to
not feel hopeless.
There is a great deal of hope.
It's not as complicated as youthink, even though it sounds
incredibly complicated.
It's not as bad as you think itis.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Yeah, I think.
On that note, I would say youknow, the earlier the better to
like.
Don't, don't, let it keeppersisting.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
And then, if you're on, a med like the longer you
are on a med, the harder it isto get off.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah, if you're on a medication, definitely plan on.
I mean, even if you have tostay on one and you can't get
off of it, then make sure thatyou're planning to see your
holistic doctor every once in awhile for a checkup.
Make sure these B6s, thesezincs, these magnesiums aren't
getting depleted right, becauseyou want to make sure that you
have those so that themedication actually works.
And I didn't talk about that,but it is one of my pet peeves

(55:46):
that I see, and it actuallydrives me nuts, is that you find
that all of the psychiatricmeds deplete B6 specifically at
a super high rate, which wasoriginally half of the problems
in the first place Maybe nothalf, but a percentage of the
problems in the first place andnow you take a drug that makes
it even lower and you never findthat happy balance.
So definitely get ahead of itearly.

(56:09):
Get ahead of it while it'sstill called dysthymia or just
low mood, before it turns into asevere anxiety, a severe
depression, panic attacks Ididn't cover panic attacks Most
often like a blood sugar drop.
That's definitely something thatwe should talk about there, and
I've had them with dental stuffalso.
So, hidden dental stuff, you'llfind that people are getting

(56:31):
unexplained panic attacks andmaybe we have a hard time
treating it in the office and Iwas like what was that?
And it turns out, you know,they've got an infected crown or
something like that, that they,you know just an old thing that
needs to be taken care of.
And then a lot of the panicbecause just that nerve goes
directly up to that brainstemand it's just too much.
Yep, yep.
So that's great.
All right, guys, we don't haveany Q&A on this podcast this

(56:53):
week.
We'll think about doing itmaybe next week or we'll switch
to another topic.
I've been getting DMs withrequests on Instagram, so if you
have a topic you want us tocover, you know we're always
looking for ideas, fun, newthings.
We'll run out of ideas on ourown, so we need your help.
You can find us on Instagram or, like I said, reach out to Dr
Gabe.
What's your website address,doc?

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Dr Reach UDRARICIUcom .

Speaker 1 (57:20):
All right, and so reach out to him.
On his website.
You can email him or try toschedule a phone consult with
him.
Obviously, he's the expert onthis topic, but we've both seen
a lot of these cases because allof our patients come in with it
.
And thank you guys forlistening and we'll catch you on
the next podcast.
Thanks, doc.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yep.