🎙 Funkatronic Rex Podcast: Season 2 Episode 14 — Ideas on Being a GM

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
You know, it's a good thing you hate recording.

SPEAKER_04 (00:02):
That's right.
Hey man, do not let any of mycoffee any gems of of intellect
and stupidity get lost.

SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
To be fair, John suffers from a little bit of
narcolepsy, so we're travelingto another dimension.

SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
A dimension not only of plastic and paint, but of
games.
A journey into a wondrous landwhere people become real and
cutboard cuts like a night.
That's a sign post up ahead ofyour next stop.
The funk cell.

SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Oh my gosh, what's another beautiful morning here
at the Funkatronic Rex?
Welcome to another episode ofthe Funkatronic Rex podcast.
I am Chris, and to my right isHello, I'm Paul.
What's happening, dude?

SPEAKER_04 (01:02):
How you doing this morning?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
If I was any better, I'd be twins.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05):
Yes, dude.
It the classics never get old.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
The gift that keeps on giving.
Oh my gosh.
At some point, maybe I'll,maybe, possibly, I'll explain
what that means since nobodyknows what that means.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23):
I mean, I get it.
But sure, an explanation.
Uh no, uh, it's okay.
We don't need to go too deepinto it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
No, that's for a future episode.
Yes, exactly.
Maybe keep them hooked.
Maybe they'll figure it out.
In our next segment, they'lldivulge the secrets.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37):
It's like radio.
In our next segment, we'll talkabout Paul's use of the phrase.
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:42):
It's like that uh there's a YouTube video series
that I've been like totallyhooked on.
And uh I absolutely love itexcept for one thing, and it's
that the the dude does uh uhterrariums.
Terrari like like for uh lizardaquariums that have like life in

(02:03):
them plants, yeah, yeah, turtlesand lizards and stuff like that.
Basically, yes, all that stuff,right?
Yes, you would put a turtle inan in a uh terrarium.
Uh but what he does is he'sbuilt it to be an entire like
rainforest or section ofrainforest, and he puts all
kinds of creatures in there.

SPEAKER_04 (02:20):
So he's had so he's trying to make like a mini echo
ecosphere.

SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
He's trying to do an ecosystem, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:25):
Yeah, that ecosystem eco, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
So he has a bunch of ants in there, lizards.
Uh he's recent he had acrocodile in there, he took it
out.
It was a small one, it was a itwas a baby crocodile, but but it
was still a crocodile, right?
It was still like this big,which uh audio format, like two
feet long, roughly.

SPEAKER_04 (02:43):
Audio format, it's still this big.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
So he made uh an ecosystem, likehow okay, baby crocodiles are
that small, are they?
Or am I?

SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
When he put it in, it was probably about I think
about a foot.
Okay.
Maybe, maybe eight or eight orten inches.

SPEAKER_04 (03:00):
Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
And then it grew to be, you know, probably close to
two feet in the few months thathe had it in there.
Um, he recently added for thefirst time mammals.
Uh birds.
He has two like uh small quail.
They're like they're probablylike this big, yeah uh baseball
sized.

(03:22):
Um so yeah, he he he keepsputting all these animals in,
taking them out, putting themback in, that kind of thing,
just to simulate like animals,the the diversity, the the
forest.

SPEAKER_04 (03:33):
Maybe like a migration thing, like you're
gonna be here for a little bit,then you'll move on, you might
get eaten.
Exactly.
Or whatever.
I mean, if there's a crocodileon there.

SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
There's always a bigger fish.

SPEAKER_04 (03:42):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (03:43):
Um so he he does the show and he's added two more
terrariums that are connected toit.
So he has like, sorry, I'm I'm Ikeep going back.
Uh no, no.
He's got a terrarium downstairs.
That was the first one.
Okay.
And that was the ground floor.
That's what you would think whenyou when you hear the word
terrarium, right?

SPEAKER_05 (04:02):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Um, and then above that, he has a second terrarium
that's connected through atunnel through his.

SPEAKER_04 (04:11):
So like those old school like hamster gerbil
systems.
So you would have like a littlecage here, but significantly
larger.
Like way larger.
Yeah, yeah.
So an animal, like a cat, couldgo through because it has to be
or whatever.
Basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
Uh so he built that one to be the treetop one.
And so there's almost no groundon it, right?
No soil.
Yeah.
And it's just a bunch of liketrees and things like that.
That's where he put the uh whatare they called?
Hamster squirrels.
They're like small littlerodents that live in trees.
Yeah.
Um, and then he the th the lastone he added, most recent one he

(04:44):
added, is he added a uh aquaticterrenium.
So it's it's like half aquarium.
Yeah.
And then there's like twoislands.
Yeah.
Uh, and then that one'sconnected along his ceiling
across the room.
So he's it's it's two store atwo-story home.
The two, the water one and theground one are in the same room,

(05:05):
but there's a like a cave systemthat he built that connects
them.
And then the uh that's glass soyou can see through it.
And then the one above is in thefloor above.
Uh so anyway, so he he doesthese things.
He it's it's a reallyinteresting show.
He he shoots the cinematographysuper well.

SPEAKER_04 (05:23):
Is it is he like a nature, like nature scientist?
I think it's like a is it ahobbyist thing?

SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
It's definitely a hobbyist thing.
Oh, okay.
So he he he's talked about it afew times uh throughout the
episodes and and in some sidethings where he started doing
ants like ant farms.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh his channel is called AntsCanada because he lived in
Canada and he liked ants, right?
As you do.

SPEAKER_05 (05:49):
Um, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
And then I think during COVID or right before
COVID, he moved to thePhilippines.
Oh.
Uh, and he when he moved to thePhilippines, he started this
project.
And so vivariums is what hecalls them.
I guess they're they're biggerthan terrariums.
That's that might be the correctterm.

(06:10):
But yeah, it's just a hobbything, and now he does it as a
as a job, right?
Like where he Well, if he hasenough YouTube videos, he
records YouTube videos all daylong.

SPEAKER_04 (06:18):
And I'm sure you could go on and like watch it
live.
Like does he do like a livelooking at the video?

SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
He did a test, people have asked for that a
lot, and he did a test on that.
So maybe he'll start doing thatmore often.
But he's only done that once sofar.
Huh.
Um, but what's the weird thingthat he does?
So gets you.
Yeah, so what he does isthroughout each episode, he he
freaking loves his hiscliffhangers.
Every five seconds is anothercliffhanger.

(06:44):
Uh-oh.
And so it's like W this weekwhen I added the thing, it
wasn't what I expected.
It went completely off therails.
But here's how my Bavarian'sdoing, and here's how this is
doing, and then here, and thenthis this crazy thing.
But before I get to that, and soit's just like all of these,

(07:06):
like constantly, like he'strying to hook you a little too
hard.
Yeah.
Um, so I almost want to just putit on mute and just watch the
video on mute.
I don't uh because there he doessay some really interesting
things, but like his constant,it's like four or five
cliffhangers in a 20-minuteepisode, and then the ends on a

(07:27):
cliffhanger is like, come on,man.

SPEAKER_04 (07:30):
You don't need to do it every time unless you have
built your thing to have a likea commercial break, then that's
what you want.
You're like, well, then youcan't.

SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Yeah, so far he hasn't done any any commercials
or anything like that.
Which is fine.
I mean, I'm sure YouTube triesto shoehorn them in eventually,
but I think in YouTube you couldlike well, program like saying
there's the YouTube commercials,right, that are autoplayed, but
he doesn't like if you watchmost of the hobby tabletop
hobbies, they have like theirown sponsors and stuff like

(08:00):
that.
Especially magic, like all ofthe magic creators, they're
like, and this episode'ssponsored by this company and
this company and this company,and and and then 10 minutes into
the video, we'll start ouractual content.
Kind of like this, exceptinstead of shilling, we're just
randomly talking about you knowants, ant vivariums.

SPEAKER_04 (08:21):
I think I think people enjoy both.
I hope maybe maybe they enjoythe we're just the tangential.
I enjoy both.
I enjoy the tangentialness ofthe intros personally.
I think it's great.
Yeah, it's awesome.
So what's okay, so what is theYouTube name again?
Ants.

SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
It's the Ants Canada Ant Channel.

SPEAKER_04 (08:37):
Okay.
But he does math.
Ants Canada.

SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
I it's super interesting.
It's just fascinating in thefact that I like to put it on in
the background while I'mworking, and I and you know, you
just have it playing, you kindof look over every now and then
you see just this beautifulgreenery, and yeah, living in
the desert, it's like there'ssomething that's green.

SPEAKER_04 (08:57):
Oh my gosh.
It just reminds me of.
I mean, I think that it's verycool and fun of the hobby.
Uh obviously, we work, uh, wedon't work.
Obviously, we uh broadcast outof the well, you know, some
somebody works here.
Uh tough crowd.
You got you had a job recently.
Oh yeah, ish.
Um but we have all like we allhave our geeky things, right?

(09:20):
And you can really go down thegeek uh rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
I want to be clear, I have no interest in building
vivariums or maintaining them.

SPEAKER_04 (09:27):
But I love the fact that this guy has like like
magic or 40k or something likethat.
Like everybody can like, onceyou latch on to, once you find
your geek thing, Star Wars forme, a lot of times, you just go
into it.
And it reminds me of when I haduh a turtle briefly.
I like turtles.
I like turtles.
I hate turtles.

(09:48):
I mean, I I don't hate them.
Wow.
But uh I learned very quicklythat um they are not all teenage
mutants, they are not.
And pets that are in a terrariumor aquarium or anything that's
in like a cage or a box, not mybag.

SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 (10:08):
Uh because I'm listening to this, and the only
thing I'm thinking is how thebleep is he gonna clean that.
Like, because cleaning thatturtle cage was soul crushing.
Right.
It was so bad.
Because after a while you'relike, oh, it's a turtle.
We try to do some stuff andclean it up and I'd be on top of
it.
Now I'm the one who's at homemost of the time.

(10:30):
I'm the one who's gotta clean itup.
So when you walk by and you'relike, what the what is that?

SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
Well, in his in his specific case, he's you know,
he's designed it to be aself-maintaining ecosystem.
So the in terms of cleaning it,the way he cleans it is he adds
the creatures that clean it,right?
So he adds worms to break downthe crap, and he adds, you know,
these cockroaches.
All the levels of it, the stuffup top, the work down to the

(10:57):
bottom.
What I worry about is like, howdoes he keep these things in?
How does he not just like getcovered in ants all night every
night?
Uh right, right.

SPEAKER_04 (11:06):
Like you gotta have a you gotta have a really good
seal on that.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, hopefully nothing.

SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
He does not?
No, he shows you the he doesn'tlike show you, but you see the
door and it's it doesn't looklike it's it's probably sealed
reasonably well, right?
But it doesn't look sealed tolike what I would feel
comfortable with.
Like, I expect like a uh You'rebreeding wolf spiders in this

(11:31):
thing.
What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 (11:32):
What are we doing?
Like, I want a submarine levellike crankshaft like that,
because that's gonna be vacuumpacked.
Oh my gosh.
But no, that turtle uh uhaquarium, because it was a sea,
not a tortoise.
Tortoises are more land, turtlesare more sea.
So it was water, and oh my gosh,it just it was really it was
just horrific.

(11:52):
Yeah.
And so eventually the turtlestarted out to be the size of a
silver dollar, maybe like pingpong ball.
Like something, yeah, somethinglike that.
And it grew to be it was it wascrazy.
I don't know how it happened.
Um, the in-laws found it intheir pool.
Oh, okay.
And they're like, Well, it's ado you guys want a turtle?
Now, they asked the kid first.

SPEAKER_02 (12:14):
Of course, as you do, as you do, and both you
know, the wife and I are like,uh my uncle brought me home a uh
a red racer snake when I was akid.
Yeah, that he found in thedesert while hunting.
And my mom hates snakes.
I don't know how she let me pullthat one off.

SPEAKER_04 (12:31):
Right, right.
Well, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
I'm like, a turtle should be all right.
She won't even watch videos withI tried to I tried to turn her
onto the ants Canada thingbecause I thought she'd like it.
But there he has put us he's putone snake in.
Yeah, and he's threatened to putus another snake in.

SPEAKER_01 (12:48):
I'm gonna put another snake if you kids don't
be in the house.

SPEAKER_02 (12:51):
When he added the the the um the rodents, the
hamster squirrels or whateverthey're called, uh he he he was
like, at some point I'll need todo population control, and he
cuts to his but his python.

SPEAKER_04 (13:08):
Oh my gosh.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Well, long story short, likeanything, like I love all the
furry friends, cats, dogs,whatever, but if it's in like a
cage or a a tank or whatever,not my bag.
I look very quickly.
I'm like, you know, I can youcan uh the dog can go poop
outside when the cats have alitter, like I know where it is,
and I don't gotta clean thewhole house to take care of it.

(13:30):
Because that's what it felt likeevery time.
Like I have to clean the wholehouse.
Every time this thing had to goto the bathroom.
I'm like, oh.
Uh so bravo to that guy actuallydoing.
That's crazy.
For sure.
Um and then but building a I waslike, oh, I could do that.
I could build an ecosysteminside the turtle tank.
What would he like to eat?
Or she.
I couldn't I don't we didn'tknow.
Uh, what would it like to eat?

(13:51):
Like, should I put some fish inthere, whatever?
And then the turtle goes, oh,that was a bad idea.
A crab.
Okay.
Maybe and then after all, I'mlike, nah, we gotta there's a
lovely, whatever uh, you know,uh Latin name for turtles are.
Um gosh, I used to know this.

(14:11):
Right.
There's a society herptologicalmaybe question mark.
Well, it's they do mostlyturtles, some lizards, but it's
uh here in uh Phoenix, there isa society that takes care of
them because guess what?
There's a lot of people that getturtles and don't want to keep
them for some reason.
Because this thing got to be thesize of a dinner plate, dude.
Yeah, like it, like the tank, Ihad an 80-gallon water tank that

(14:34):
I was cleaning just crazy.
So I was like, call them on thephone, hey guys, we got a
donation.
And they're like, Yeah, justdrop them off and bring all I
took all the stuff, and I'mlike, please go be with your
friends.
Go, go, and then of course thekid and the wife are like Well,
of course, the kid was like, butthe turtle, I'm like, dude.
And the wife was like, it'sokay.
You'll be alright, cat.
You go play with the cat in thedog.

(14:54):
You'll live.
Yeah, you'll live for the loveof Pete.
We do not need that.
Of course, no, like, oh, let'sget another dog.

unknown (15:01):
No!

SPEAKER_03 (15:03):
I don't know, I don't want any more pets.

SPEAKER_04 (15:05):
Not yeah.
I mean, one dog household.

SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Yeah, Uno's good.
And I'm happy with that.
Yeah.
I mean, our dog is prettymellow, so I'm my dad loved
rodents.
We had rabbits and rats growingup.
He loved rats.
Like that's crazy.
He would he would have his ratin his office, and uh he would
take it out whenever he had todo work on the computer, and it
would just sit on his shoulderwhile he worked all day long.

SPEAKER_04 (15:29):
Like there's roommates in not uh roommates
and friends in college had likewhat uh the lizards and the
rats, and you just walk aroundwith them on their shoulder.

SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
The lizard, the lizard I kind of got, but the
rat I'm like I had a lizardgrowing up, I really wanted one,
and uh it I it wasn't for me.
Uh maybe it was the the kind Igot I wanted an iguana.
So I got an iguana.

SPEAKER_04 (15:52):
That was it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
An iguana.
An iguana.
Uh and I was expecting somethinglike chill and slow and just
like it's just gonna hang out.
No, this thing was like a racecar.

SPEAKER_05 (16:03):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:03):
It's racing around in the in the thing, and it
wasn't nice.
It bit me a couple times.
Like, all right.
Yeah, so yeah, my my parentsended up giving that one to you
know, whatever society orwhatever.

SPEAKER_04 (16:15):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (16:15):
So or we had lizard, roast lizard, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 (16:19):
Um, so yeah.
That's crazy.
Well, that's that's a fun littleYouTube thing.
It's awesome.
That's nice.
Well, as we as we tend gentlestuff, uh obviously what the
hell are we gonna talk aboutthis week?
Have you gotten any games inMark Ferrara?

SPEAKER_02 (16:34):
Uh only dagger hurt.
Well, we are obviously I play Iplay Magic every every
Wednesday.
I try to make it here unlessthere's you know family stuff
going on.
Um so I've I've played a littlebit of magic here and there.
Um but but yeah, the what's likethe big talking point is is

(16:57):
Dagger Heart.
So we played our our twocampaigns, the one that's the
two campaigns and the new onethat's coming up.
That's right.
Very soon.
Very soon.
Um so the we did the Beast Feastcampaign.
We did the third session of thatone last week.
And uh you know, it's it's I I'mstill loving the system.

(17:21):
It's still everything that thatI wanted it to be.
Um it's not as flexible as I Idon't want to say as I expected,
because I expect it's about asflexible ex as flexible as I
expected.
It's not as flexible as say theGenesis system is, and and what
I love about that.
Um yeah, we had a good session.

(17:43):
It was uh it wasn't as I don'tremember how much I talked about
the second session.
I think I I think I wentthrough.

SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
I think you definitely went through the
setup in the beginning and howthey're how that group formed uh
and started.
Like our sessions the you wetalked about the comparison
between our session zeros.

SPEAKER_05 (18:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (18:02):
Uh and you did talk about some of their adventures
and how you got that otherplayer.
No, no, no, that was one of yourother other things that it was
your favorite group.
Uh oh, not my favorite group,but it was one of your more
interesting ways to introduce acharacter, which is pretty cool.
Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (18:18):
That's probably my favorite campaign I've I've run
in terms of like worlds I'vebuilt and stories that I've I've
tried to tell.

SPEAKER_05 (18:26):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:26):
Um so we so for those of our listeners that
aren't familiar with the termcampaign frame, uh in
Daggerheart in the back of thebook, there's uh several what
they call campaign frames.
And a campaign frame is a briefdescription of a setting that

(18:48):
you can put your game in, andthen a few mechanics that you
can you can kind of uh buildaround it, as well as you know
what the influences are andthings like that.
So uh one of the campaign framesthat they introduced is called
Beast Feast.
And Beast Feast is uh for thosethat are uh familiar with it,

(19:11):
there's a a show on Netflixcalled Delicious in Dungeon.
I don't remember if we've talkedabout this, but yes, you did,
yeah, you're like go check thisshow out.

SPEAKER_04 (19:21):
It's it's a really cool anime, it's a very funny
show.

SPEAKER_02 (19:24):
Uh, and it's very influential and a lot of people
love it.
So they they ended up one of thepeople that was a fan of it,
ended up building a campaignframe that's inspired by it.
It's different, but it's butdefinitely very heavily
employed.

SPEAKER_04 (19:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Uh so they the whole concept of the campaign is you
start out as your your play yourplayers are not adventurers,
they're not heroes, they're justeveryday townsfolk living in a
small town.
And so, like, rather than havingswords, yeah, uh a sword, they
might have a uh a kitchen uhmeat cleaver or kitchen knife.
Rather than having a hammer,they might have a meat

(19:58):
tenderizer, right?
So everything's like stuff you'dfind around town.

SPEAKER_04 (20:03):
Uh is it all kitchen related, or can it be like, hey,
you're a blacksmith and you havea hammer, or is it like trying
to like if you fit somethingnear a village kitchen, like
they so the intention is for itto be a simple mundane item, but
also another core tenant of thecampaign frame is to make
everything like food oriented.

SPEAKER_05 (20:24):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Um, because the whole concept is uh this town is
a small town that was built overthe entrance of a giant cave
system that for years and yearsand years there was a magical
item or m something buried deepin this dungeon that uh has
attracted monsters.
And so all the monsters from allover the world come and they

(20:47):
they go into this cave systemand they they thrive down in
this deep in this dungeon.
Um, but it keeps the rest of theworld safe because they're all
being drawn here to the lure.
Yeah.
Um but something has gone wrongwith the lure.
And the the monsters are not allgoing into the caves anymore.

(21:11):
Now they're starting to leak outand they're starting to be
dangerous, and so uh as aresult, you know, it's hard to
get food.
You know?

SPEAKER_03 (21:23):
You can't you can't safely go out and hunt.

SPEAKER_04 (21:25):
Right.
If monsters are eating all theflora and fauna out there, etc.
etc.

SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
Yes.
Uh-huh.
It's hard to hard to do yourfarming because like the
monsters are in the way.
So yeah, everyone's hungry.
There's not much food, it'sdangerous.
So what what's the town gonna doexcept send a band of
adventurers down into the cavesto figure out what's going on
with the lure?
And uh, but while they're downthere, they they can't bring

(21:51):
provisions with them becausethere's not any.

SPEAKER_04 (21:53):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (21:53):
Everyone's starving, right?

SPEAKER_04 (21:54):
Right.
So we're they wouldn't know whatto bring, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 (21:56):
They're just so you've gotta you know eat that's
right, eat what's in thedungeon.
You gotta eat what's in thedungeon.
So the entire game is builtaround killing monsters and then
cooking them up and and eatingthem.
Um my gosh.
And so it's been a lot of fun toto design encounters for.
So we the first the firstsession uh session zero, we went

(22:18):
straight into play because thatgroup is impatient.
Uh and uh so I had to like justoff the ground running pull some
pull some stuff.
And I hadn't even like run theactual official dagger heart
yet.
It would I had just done thebeta.
So I I just flipped through thepage and I'm like, oh wolves
sound cool.
So I I introduced wolves.
I was like, what am I gonna doto make them food oriented?

(22:41):
I was like, oh their food, theirfur is chock like chocolate
colored, and they're likechocolate covered.
I was like, yes.
Yes, thus setting the tone forthe rest of this campaign.
Oh my gosh.
So they the very first encounterwas chocolate-covered wolves.

(23:03):
As you do, you know, they'rechasing the chocolate bunnies,
and they were they werechocolate-covered, dire wolves.
Oh, but instead of having bonescoming out of their shoulders,
they had candy canes.
Oh this is all because I saidchocolate colored and they heard
chocolate covered.

SPEAKER_04 (23:19):
So uh You know, sometimes those mistakes in
improv become the cherishing thethe the the moments you look
back and be like, that was anamazing goof and spawned so much
insanity.
Yeah, like the improv line thattook over.
That's great.

SPEAKER_02 (23:34):
So yeah, so the the first few sessions, the first
session was a little rough.
Uh I didn't have anythingplanned or designed, so it was
just kind of off the cuff.
They get to uh they get to thefirst room in the dungeon, they
get to there's a a series of achain of restaurants in the
dungeon called berries.

(23:57):
This is part of the campaignframe.

SPEAKER_04 (23:58):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
So now the monsters have opened up restaurants, or
or is it just you know it's thedenizens of the dungeon, whether
they're old retired adventurers,uh sentient monsters.

SPEAKER_04 (24:11):
Or somebody's open.
Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
That the there is a rule that you're not allowed to
eat sentients in the game.
So you can't eat orcs orgoblins.
Right.
Um, but I've been specificallydesigning the encounters to be
much more bestial focused.
Um so we did our second sessionand I had I had designed a

(24:35):
couple of encounters.
So we we started with what wasit?
It was uh oh, the umami springs.
So they they wake up aftercamping in front of the the
berries because there's a littlecampsite there that I I decided

(24:56):
there was a campsite there.
And uh they overhear somebodytalking about the umami springs,
and there's a a salt eel livingin it.
So they they travel to the umamisprings and they fight the salt
eel, and I'm describingeverything as like uh you know

(25:16):
the the seal br the eel breatheson you uh it it shoots out like
a a steam breath, but it tastesreally good.
It's oddly satisfying.
Uh so they fight that, that wasjust like a random encounter
thing, and then they go to uhthey're trying to get to their

(25:40):
destination, they end upfighting a mimic on the way
because part of what Daggerheartdoes, and and this is something
that I think is good to talkabout.
Daggerheart really wants to givethe players a lot of narrative
control.
They want it to be a sharedstory experience.
Yeah.
And so I'm I'm trying to do thatwith my players, but one of the

(26:00):
players two two of the playersare very new.
The other two I've played withfor 20 plus years.
Yeah.
Um and so two of the the twonewer players don't really know
the social con uh the unspokensocial social construct about
that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 (26:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
And so I ask one of them, you know, what do you what
do you see in the what standsout to you when you walk into
this room?
Right, right.
Well, there's a big there's abig treasure chest in the
corner.
And I'm like, Okay, that's notworld building.
That's not um so that's aconversation I need to have with

(26:42):
him.
Uh, but in the moment, we'rewe're early in the session and
we want to we want to still tellthe story.
And and three of the fourplayers are very combat
oriented.
Right.
I actually should say two of thefour players.
One player, I I I'm still tryingto place what what he he seems
pretty, he's new.

(27:02):
Right, right.
So he seems pretty moldable.

SPEAKER_04 (27:05):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
Um but two of them, like, if they're not fighting in
in a session, then it's a badsession.
Now that being said, they theydon't have not everything needs
to be combat.
Right.
But like everything needs to bemoving toward the next combat
encounter, which is fine.

SPEAKER_04 (27:21):
I get that.
I mean, that is uh I mean thatis kind of my background too,
again.
You know, I am uh I haven'trole-played in forever, and the
last time was 3.5.
Like, let's be honest.
So, and I was usually the GM, asI said.
So most of the players and stufflike was this uh to reference
that cliffhanger is like we'regonna have some fun, we're gonna

(27:41):
adventure, but there's almostalways going to be a maybe not a
boss battle, but a a littleskirmish, a little fight that
hopefully opens up a next thenext chapter or the next thing.
Like, what's the conflict thatwe hit that the players can work
through?
And that conflict is usuallyliterally a conflict, a fight.
Sometimes they had to use theirskills to get out of it, you

(28:04):
know, sneak around, stealsomething, try to convince and
roll their skills.
But I definitely, and this issomething that I think will be a
challenge for me, is to kind ofwork on that skill.
That, you know, all right, we'renot murder hobos, right?
Let's how do I, how am I gonnaapproach this game and this, you

(28:27):
know, this system and thiscampaign in particular?
Like, how do I, how am I gonnawork on that?
Right.
Uh yeah, and like I said, notgonna lie, like that's that's
kind of like, all right, let'snot, let's not go murder hobo
every time.
Let's, you know, what what canwe do?
How am I gonna look how wouldthis character look at this
situation?

(28:47):
Right.
And that's gonna be new for me.
So we'll see.
I'm I'm crossing my fingers thatI'm not gonna totally like, you
know, there's a treasure chestand I attack the darkness, eh?
And you're like, and you justlike, Chris, what are you sorry?
Sorry, sorry, redo.
Can I hit the redo button?
Let's rework through this.
Nope.

(29:08):
Uh you're stuck.
You're stuck, that's it.
Um but uh I mean that's goodbecause if if there's four
players and hopefully they kindof they can kind of balance each
other out.
If two are more combatty andthen two are on the other side,
hopefully it allows you to workaround that and maybe push them

(29:30):
toward the role-playing part,right?
Hopefully.
Uh you know, I I think I dothink a lot of people have
watched the or heard of and beeninfluenced by the critical role
stuff.
And what's there's there'sseveral YouTubes and podcasts
out there that are gaming,right?
It's critical roles, I think,the big one.
I wish I could remember theother one.

(29:51):
Um who's hosted by like one ofthe actresses that was in
Daredevil or something likethat.
Uh oh.
And and um Uh but there's likeDeborah Ann Wall.
That's it.
Um so she's like host or part ofit.
Um and they've had the actorplaying Deadpool in it, like on
it.
So I was like, oh, that waspretty cool.
The actor playing Deadpool.
Uh not sorry, the actor playingDaredevil.

SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
Daredevil.
Switch those two.
Charlie Cox.

SPEAKER_04 (30:14):
Uh yes, they had him on.
He's like, that was cool.
Yeah.
You know, like I've neverrole-played.
And it's like, well, it's kindof like acting.
Kind like kind of let world withworking within these systems.
Right.
Uh but yeah, like with thepopularity of these shows, I
think many people are like, oh,that's like, is that is that how
you role play?
I'm like, sure if you want to.

(30:36):
Right?
Is that how your system works?
Sure if you want to.
But those guys, again, as we saymany times, they are trained
professional actors.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (30:45):
It's very different than a home table.

SPEAKER_04 (30:47):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (30:48):
Uh, so yeah, I mean, it's there's no wrong way to
roleplay.
Um like it there are systemsdesigned for every type.
Yep.
We we talked a little bit aboutyou know some of the more
narrative systems.
Like, there's there's arole-playing game.
Did we talk about Everyone isJohn?
I don't think we talked aboutEveryone is John.

(31:10):
So there's a one-pagerole-playing game.
You can probably find it forfree on the internet, um, called
Everyone is John.
Uh it's uh probably wouldn't bemade today because it's a it's a
little insensitive in some ways,but basically the premise is
it's a competitive role-playinggame in which case everyone

(31:30):
plays as a personality of thesame character.
And so you're playing it the thepremise is one person is the the
game master, uh, or whateverthey call it.
Right.
And then that person is prpresenting, you know, challenges
and things like that towhoever's in control of John.

(31:51):
And then whenever John isinjured or whenever he uh
achieves a goal or falls asleep,and to be fair, John suffers
from a little bit of narcolepsy.
So, you know, he if there's ifthere's more than a few seconds
of downtime, he's fallingasleep.
And so you you uh there's a abid for control that all the

(32:16):
players can do, and so you biduh a resource, and then whoever
wins the bid gets control ofJohn for the his next until he
until there's another bid forcontrol, right?
And so um it's a lot of like oneperson is doing a lot of the
role-playing, the GM is doingthe thing, and then you'll have
the other players play as NPCsand things like that.

(32:39):
Um but it's it's a fun littlelike one-shaped, like, hey,
let's do this for a night andjust have fun.
But my point is, is like there'sa game for everyone.
Like, yeah, if you want to playa competitive role-playing game
that's very narrative focused,everyone is drawn, it's great.
If you want to play somethingthat's more tactically minded
and very focused around likemoving your dudes around the map

(33:03):
and having super cool,interesting combats, right, but
role-playing kind of on theside.
Yeah, there's a ton of games forthat.
There's uh uh DD35, there's thewar machine uh role-playing
game.
That's called uh Iron.
What is it called?

(33:24):
We we played it, I hated it.
Um it was it was too tacticaltactically minded for me, and
also the DM we've talked about.
Yeah.
Um the but there's there's abunch of systems for that.
So depending on what you want,right?
So what I tend to lean toward,the systems that that really

(33:45):
appeal to me, are the ones thatare narrative driven for me, but
tactically minded for the thegroup, my traditional group that
I usually play for.
So the Star Wars role-playingsystem and Genesis, uh, the um
Daggerheart.
Yep, the game we're playing.

(34:07):
This one.

SPEAKER_07 (34:08):
This one now.

SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
These games aren't really appeal to me because they
have the the narrative chops forme.
Yeah, but they also have thethey have a bit more crunch, a
bit more uh genessequa, as youlike to say.
Ah delicious.
Uh I don't even know what thatmeans.
I'm probably using it wrong.
Uh we always do, we always are.

(34:30):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 (34:30):
So, like, sounds like uh, and obviously it's to
spoil, like we are we did oursession zero, and coming up is
our session one, like the firstthing.
So we're gonna startexperiencing how Daggerheart
works, even though the sessionzero does give you a good
glimpse into its own.

SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
I'm curious to see how it goes with the different
group too.
Yeah.
Like how this group what wehave.

SPEAKER_04 (34:55):
But it sounds like Daggerheart for you and and is a
you've you're you are finding abalance between that sort of
maybe combat tactical-mindedsystem and a narrative-minded
system.
Because basically, I mean,that's the two flavors.
That's the chocolate and peanutbutter that happen in
role-playing games.

(35:16):
Still a game, which is to me thethe tactical combat, that's the
game part, but then there's therole-playing, which is that
narrative, like what story arewe telling?
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you can find all the flavorssci-fi fantasy, cyberpunk, noir,
whatever it is that you have aninkling to try.
Yeah, I bet you there's arole-playing engine that is

(35:37):
connected to that, right?
Like you want to do like modernday magic, great.
You want to do futuristic sci-fimagic, which is kind of what
we're doing, ish, ish, you know,or whatever.
Or you want to do uh Wild West.

SPEAKER_02 (35:48):
Like there's I mean, it's it's no uh what's the game?
Shadow Run.
Oh, it's no shadow run.

SPEAKER_04 (35:53):
But uh is that game still around?

SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
It's still around.
There was a new edition thatcame out a couple years ago.
Oh, that's great.
Uh I played it.
Yeah.
Played the new edition.
Uh it was awful.
It was awful for me.
I again it's it all goes back tothe there's a there's a system
for everyone, right?
Like if you love having a gamewhere the the new Shadowrun is

(36:20):
even is way way lower on thistotem pole than the old
versions.
But if you want something that'svery minute and like gets into
the nitty-gritty of like how tocalculate things, and uh you
know, you have a lot of leversto pull, different stats to
manage in your character.
Like the way that that uh anattack works in in Shadow Run is

(36:44):
it's like you grab 10 dice, youroll those dice, how many of
those are hits?
Okay, now the defender is gonnaroll 10 dice, and then how many
of those are blocks?
Okay, and then we have tosubtract that from this and this
and that, and then it's all ofthese different like checks and
balances and calculations.
One attack, especially in theolder versions of Shadowrun, can

(37:05):
take several minutes to resolve.
Woo! Um okay, but but peoplelove it.

SPEAKER_04 (37:10):
But no, no, if you are if you are like that kind of
it reminds me a little bit ofthat the Warhammer Sigmar, like
I want to roll some dice, I wantto get some numbers and try to
crunch it, you know, crunch thenumbers, get the odds in my
favor.
So if I do roll, I have createda uh created the dice pool
that's in my favor, etc.
etc.
So I can work the system.

(37:31):
Yeah, right.
Uh I mean that's a lot of dice.
Don't get me wrong, like when Iplayed my 40k and singhore, like
pretends a low amount of dice inthat game.

SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Yeah, like I think I was I think there was one or two
checks where I was rollingsomething like 16, 18 dice.

SPEAKER_04 (37:44):
Judy Christmas.
Okay, that's okay, come on now.

SPEAKER_02 (37:47):
But that but that's part of what people like about
that system, and that's fine.
Uh wasn't for me.
But but that but I I Iacknowledge and recognize, you
know, that it is what it does,it does you know reasonably
well.
Um I supposedly there's severalflaws with the new version.
I haven't delved delved too deepinto it.

SPEAKER_04 (38:08):
Um I mean so DD 3.5, which is my which sits in the
way back machine of thememories.

SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
That's your nostalgia game.

SPEAKER_04 (38:19):
That's the nostalgia game, absolutely.
And uh, like funny thing, likesitting up here, walk by the the
stuff in the back, yeah, and Iuh to get the water bottle here,
and I stopped full stopped infront of the bookshelf.
Some idiot.

SPEAKER_01 (38:33):
Well, I would say some idiot.

SPEAKER_04 (38:34):
Some idiot, but some like I bought traded in a bunch
of.
So my first thought was my firstthought was oh my gosh, DD 5.5
is totally going retro.
I I might need to buy this bookjust because like yeah, the
design, the design and look of3.5 is back.
Oh my gosh.
And you're like, I turned themin, Chris.
Like, oh.

(38:55):
Oh, that was Pa, why would youdo that?
Well, so for people that don'tknow magical and and and you
know, I looked at the one rightbecause I pulled it out here
because I was looking throughthe magic of favoring, and I was
just like, oh, memories, likethat's flipping through it.
Um where for in with your withlooking at that, where does

(39:16):
where would 3.5 sit within thatlike out of uh if 10 is like
very combat oriented and likeone is very narrative, right?
Is is three where would threepoint?

SPEAKER_02 (39:29):
3.5 is very much a crunch technical like
combat-oriented system.

SPEAKER_04 (39:36):
Yeah, because it did have like all those skills and
like all the numbers you canwrite down to do stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
And it and it had very little support for the
narrative and the role-playing.
Yeah like it had it get you hadthe everything had a number tied
to it, right?
So yes, almost everything hadsomething tied to it.

SPEAKER_04 (39:56):
As opposed to a moment where yeah where you
could imagine the situation andhave the DM could have a little
flexibility.

SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
I did feel like every now and then that part of
the advantage of of Dungeons andDragons specifically, regardless
of the edition, um, is it isreasonably flexible.
I would say 3-5 isn't 3-5 is isthe easily the crunchiest of all
the Dungeons and Dragonssystems, but it's not the most
like combat-oriented tactical.

(40:24):
Right.
That award definitely goes tofourth edition.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (40:27):
Um, fourth edition is like so they they definitely
push toward that realm of wewant to do that.

SPEAKER_02 (40:33):
There was almost no role-playing support in in
fourth edition, whereas 3.5 hadhad a bit.

SPEAKER_04 (40:38):
Has five and five, whatever you want to call this,
5.5, 5.25, whatever.
Whatever 5.22.
2025, yeah, or 24.
Has have they pulled it, triedto pull it back a little bit
more toward like a centerline-ish?

SPEAKER_02 (40:51):
Okay, five fifth edition is a good middle ground
uh between the the pop thegrowing popularity of narrative
systems and also the traditionsof you know the what A, D, and D
and 3.5 were built on.
Yeah, uh Fifth Edition, I think,and I've said this several times

(41:13):
on the podcast, is the best uhedition of Dungeons and Dragons.
And a large large part of thatis the reason I say that, and
and of course that's subjective.
Um your mileage may vary, butyes.
My the reason that I say that isbecause it offers the most
flexibility.
Okay.
If you want a crunch-oriented,like tactical, like let's get

(41:37):
into the nitty-gritty ofnumbers, you can easily do that
with fifth edition.

SPEAKER_03 (41:40):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (41:41):
Um, the rules don't necessarily support every niche,
like you know, you don't getinto the the minutiae of bonus
actions and two actions percombat and all that stuff, but
but it does it, you know, itdoes offer quite a bit of that.
And then but if you also wantsomething that is more narrative

(42:03):
driven, while it doesn't give aton of tools for the
role-playing, it's a little bitbetter than fifth edition or uh
3.5 edition, but not much.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (42:14):
Um I mean 3.5 was around for a it felt like 3.5
was around for a long time.
Like that edition lived.

SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
Uh it was 200 to 2008, I think is when fourth
edition came out.

SPEAKER_04 (42:34):
2008?
Fourth edition.
It was eight or nine.
Because I swear, well, because Iwas playing obviously in my
gaming world, it was nineties,so uh eighty-five to ninety was
the big heyday for me.
And then a little bit there, butlike that looking at that book.

SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Third edition was like 95.

SPEAKER_05 (42:50):
I thought it was earlier.

SPEAKER_02 (42:52):
No, it might have been 90.
Might have been 98, 91.
But it was like nine yearsbetween third edition and three
five, and then three five wasaround for like eight or nine
years, and then fourth editiondidn't last as long because
everyone hated it.
Uh fourth edition came out in2014 for sure.

(43:14):
Yeah, I'm sorry, fifth fifthedition came out in 2014.
So the fourth edition wasroughly five or six years.
Okay.
And then uh fifth edition, likeit's still it's still the only
version of DD that's beingpublished.
They haven't released a newedition other than the new
revised books.
And the the revised books werereleased like 10, 11 years after

(43:35):
the game came out.

SPEAKER_04 (43:36):
So it's it's been going so it's probably the
longest version that's withoutwith some subtle changes.
Three to three point five wasn'ta big I think A D D might be
longer still.

SPEAKER_02 (43:45):
Well, the original A D D was forever.

SPEAKER_04 (43:48):
I mean, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Well, so I'm I'm saying like second edition.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because the first edition wasonly a couple years.

SPEAKER_04 (43:54):
Yeah.
Uh but no, because that was thatwas the one I played.
I mean, second edition.
Ugh, A D D.
Yeah.
Hey, do you play DD?
No, I play advanced DD.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
Because I'm advanced in my no,no, I'm I'm not.
It's just it's just what's outthere, and that's what we played
forever.

SPEAKER_02 (44:11):
So fifth is great.
I think fifth is is a solid.
I I'll say it a million times onthis podcast.
I have nothing against fifthedition Dungeons and Dragons.
I think it's a great system.
I think it's it's a really goodsystem for people to kind of
learn on.
I think it's a better systemthan Daggerheart for new DMs for
sure.

SPEAKER_03 (44:29):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:30):
Uh Daggerheart puts a lot of uh weight on the DM to
be able to improvise well.

SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
It does.
No, absolutely.
I do think reading through uhokay, not reading, leafing
through the book and the onlinerules and stuff and going
through the session zero.
I definitely think if you wantto DM this, don't be scared
about it.
Just, you know, look at thebook.
If this speaks to you and youlike how I mean, frankly,
sometimes like I like I just uhI like I looked at the

(44:57):
role-playing book not too longago and I just bought it because
I like leafing through it andthe art was cool and some of the
the like the stories, the shortstories they tell inside those
books sometimes.
I was reading, I'm like, thatwas cool, I'm just gonna get it.
Cause like support that gamecompany, support this
production.
It was pretty cool.
I'd probably never play it, butI still leave through it because
the art is cool and speaks toyou.

(45:17):
Much like a miniature game,right?
Does when you look at thisthing, like, is that a cool
mini?
Yeah.
There you go.
Start there.
Like, do you like thatminiature?
Um uh don't worry about therules as of yet.
Get in there because it hooksyou.

SPEAKER_02 (45:32):
Uh a lot of people are terrified of GMming.
Um they're afraid of doing itpoorly.
And anytime someone says that, Itell them to say, Don't, don't
worry about that.
Like GMing is a muscle.
It's it's something that youhave to work at, it's something
that you have to try, it'ssomething that you have to
exercise.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:52):
And again, don't don't hold yourself to those
high standards of the YouTubestuff.
Like, those guys have been doingthat for years, like they they
are like within that creativeworld, like that is a muscle
that they have exercised foryears.
So being able to improv and workon stuff is takes practice.
I mean, that's okay.
My background is the technicalside of theater and arts, but

(46:13):
having worked and done stufflike that for many, many years,
like it takes practice.
So if you find a group offriends that like you know, DD
sounds good, or um Star WarsForce and Destiny sounds good,
or whatever, like if that tickscratches the itch just to get
you going, dive in, randomlypick somebody, or somebody's

(46:33):
like, hey, like I really Iwouldn't mind trying.
Go for it.
Absolutely like jump in withboth feet because everybody's
hopefully people are new andexperiencing this for the first
time.
You're gonna screw up, it'sgonna be great, you're gonna
make mistakes.
But if you make those mistakes,you'll learn, like, okay, that
was a funky session.
How how what'd you guys thinkabout it?

(46:54):
How can we make this better?
Right.
And take notes, and then thenext time you'll work on it.
So eventually you will getbetter.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (47:00):
Just try, just try, just work at it.
Just the the the worst thingsthat you can do is avoid it.
Don't don't GM.
Right.
Because I think GMing is veryrewarding.
I think everyone should try it.
Even if it's not for you, tryit.
Um as long as you support thethe uh a couple of core tenets

(47:23):
that I think every GM shouldaspire to, then you don't have
to worry about being a bad GM.
Um the the rules stuff,counterbalancing, all that
stuff, that comes with time andand exercise.
Don't worry about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Um the the core things, if allyou need to worry about for to

(47:44):
be a GM, you don't even need toknow the rules.
That's a lot of people are like,I don't know, I haven't read the
book.
It's fine.
It's fine.
Okay, your players will helpyou.
There, I guarantee somebody atthe table has read the book.

SPEAKER_04 (47:58):
There's always gonna be at least one that really gets
into that uh and really enjoysreading it and has read all the
stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (48:04):
Absolutely.
Be a fan of your players, yeah,be a fan of their characters,
you know, make sure that thatwhatever you're doing paints
them in the coolest possiblelight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Um the second thing is don't getemotional and don't uh about
like whether or not you'refeeling targeted or they're not

(48:30):
um don't don't try to likepigeonhole your characters into
your story.
Right.
It's it's everyone's story,right?
Like it's it's as much theirstory as it is whatever story
you're trying to tell.
If you if we've we've talkedabout this, if you want to tell
a set story with a start andfinish about your bad guys,

(48:52):
write a freaking novel.

SPEAKER_04 (48:54):
Uh if you want to Or play like something that's very
con like like leaning towardmore of that combat, or so you
can build your encounters towardthat combat.
And again, some groups lovethat.

SPEAKER_02 (49:05):
Some groups want to say they want, and and to be
fair, my Beast Feast campaign isthis that group is very similar
in that they don't really wantto explore, they don't really
want to like roleplay that much.
They'll roleplay, they enjoy it,but like what's the next fun
encounter?
What's the next thing we'regonna they anytime there's any

(49:25):
like moment of quiet, they lookat me and they're like, Okay,
what's next?
And it's like, you guys tell mewhat's next, man.

SPEAKER_04 (49:32):
Yeah, like I'll fill in the blanks.
Like, you guys like give me, uh,I think much like in the improv
world, like it is an exchange ofideas and stories, which to go
back to what happened in oursession zero, is that idea of
while we were creating ourcharacters and asking those
questions of each other and ofourselves, we had moments of

(49:56):
maybe epiphanies might not betoo strong, but moments where we
all kind of had a like, ah, ooh,like, and you definitely went,
yeah, we're keeping that cool.
Like cool moments.
And that's like the rule ofcool.
We had a moment where we allwent, that sounds great, oh,
that's cool.
And then the next player wouldask a question and we'd all go,
ooh, ooh, and then someone elsewould be like, Well, what if

(50:18):
maybe if so if I did somethingbefore, like led into that,
like, ooh, like so?
We all had moments of excitementand buy-in while we were doing
this session zero.
And I'm, you know, obviously,since it's a bit and we're only
doing this once a month, uh uhall you listeners out there, try
to save that energy, hold thatenergy in you, write the notes,

(50:39):
and keep it in your head so whenyou return back to your gaming
table, you can kind of continuealong that same moment.
So you jump in and it's likewatching back in the day when
you watched a show every week.
Yeah, right?
Back in the day, you had uh, youknow, Ace Inch of Shield pops up
for some reason because that'swhat the kid and I and I were
watching.
Yes, I know.
It's a it's a great bubblegummarvel show.
Uh okay, it's not so great.

(50:59):
It's it's fun.
It's a bubblegum marvel show.
No, no, no.
Uh but it's it's Marvel.
Marvel uh uh, but every episodeback when we were watching it
would come on, and then we'dhave to wait a week.

SPEAKER_07 (51:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (51:10):
So the wife and I would be like, Well, that was
fun.
Ooh, what do you think's gonnahappen?
So we would talk about it.
Same thing with we're watchingSquid Game right now.
The we would just watch anepisode.

SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
We would try not to go through it because there's
not that many episodes, damnyou.

SPEAKER_04 (51:25):
Uh but we'd watch one.
And like, what do you think'sgonna like talk about?
What was gonna happen next?
Oh, if this character does this,oh, I don't know.
What do you have?
This, I don't know.
And though, so that when wewatch the next episode, we have
a little, a little excitement, alittle buy-in, right?
Right, which is I think very,very cool.
Uh, is a cool go-to-get goal toreach for in these gaming

(51:47):
groups.
Because that's one of the thingsthat I loved about them is the
fact that we you made friends.
Well, hopefully you are playingwith friends, or if there's new
people, you create a camaraderiearound the table.
And I said we've talked manytimes, the idea of playing these
games is that hanging out withpeople who are your friends or
will become your friends.

(52:07):
And then you can experiencethese stories together so that
later on, as I said way backwhen, like I still run into my
high school friend, and we bothkind of snicker.
There's one or two catchphrasesthat we just say to each other,
we just snicker because it's weinstantly go back to that moment
where it's two o'clock in themorning.
Right.
And I did something kind offunny and weird, and they all
went, oh my god! And it justsent us off this weird track,

(52:29):
and we had a great moment.
It was yes.

SPEAKER_02 (52:31):
We had one of those moments in our Beast Feast
campaign in the last sessionwhere uh so uh so they they end
up getting to the they were senton a quest to go find ghost
scorpions and harvest theirtheir uh venom, their spicy
venom.

SPEAKER_04 (52:47):
I was about to say, are they spicy?

SPEAKER_02 (52:48):
So that a spicy pace could be made to keep the
monsters out of the village.

SPEAKER_04 (52:54):
Um this world is so wacky.
I love it.
I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (52:58):
Yeah, we they on the way there they fought uh swarms
of popcorn rats.
Okay.
Uh whenever they killed therats, their backs would pop into
a bunch of popcorn.
Um they that almost sounds likea horror movie, admittedly, but
yes.
All right, great, great.
It was wild.
Um but they fought the the ghostscorpions, and uh they were I'm

(53:22):
describing them, or I they Isay, okay, you guys enter into a
cave, it's full of really tallgrass.
Like the grass is like four orfive feet high.
Yeah.
It's super tall.
And uh one's like, Do I see thescorpions?
It's like, okay, roll roll athing.
And they rolled, and they'relike, okay, you see like what
appears to be a scorpion tilllike bobbing just above the

(53:45):
grass.
One of the players goes, Wait,how big are these scorpions?
Is this the I was thinking likewe're gonna fight swarms of
scorpions.
Yeah, but you're saying theseare big scorpions?
And so, and then that that ledus into the joke where where
it's like, oh, I'd say they'rethey're probably you know,

(54:08):
they're huge scorpions.
What?
Like like like a foot long?
No, like like huge, like thesize of a small bus.
Yeah, magic or scorpion.
Yeah, which so the to to toexplain the joke.
Oh my gosh.
The joke is our we've talkedabout the the old GM that I used
to play with and uh how he wasvery competitive and yeah, yeah,

(54:31):
not not always the best attelling stories, right?
Um, but we still got to play, westill had a lot of great
memories.
Like, again, he may not havebeen the best GM, but he was the
GM we had, and he did a goodenough job for us to get
together and and create greatmemories.

SPEAKER_04 (54:48):
Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (54:49):
Um, so again, if you're worried about being a bad
GM, even a B even a bad GM is agood GM as long as you guys are
getting together.

SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Exactly.
Um, and so one of the fightsthat he had is infamous uh for
is we were he says, okay, yousee a huge toad.
And so they're everyone'sfighting the huge toad.
You know, huge toad.
Yeah.

(55:18):
And he says, okay, it eats oneof you.
And they're like, wait, wait,wait, wait, what?

SPEAKER_03 (55:24):
Wait, what?
How huge is huge?
Yeah, yeah.
Time, time, ref.
Can I get a judge?

SPEAKER_02 (55:31):
Like, I'm thinking maybe like the size of a
boombox, right?
Like, that's a huge toad.
That is a huge toad.
That's huge.
No, he meant huge as in themechanical definition of huge in
Dungeons 3-5 Dungeons andDragons, which is a nine-square
toad.
So it's each each squareoccupies, you know, three to

(55:54):
five feet.
Right.
Uh, five feet is the officialdistance.
So this toad is like 10 feetlong.

SPEAKER_04 (56:03):
Takes up a 15 by 15 foot square, basically.
Yeah.
And it just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (56:09):
Yeah.
But this whole time we'refighting this thing, we're
thinking like, okay, thisthing's like the size of, you
know, get like a coffee table.
Maybe like this guy, right?
Like, that is at biggest, right?
Like that's cute.
No, that's the size of a smallbus.

SPEAKER_04 (56:25):
It's the size of a Volkswagen, dude.

SPEAKER_02 (56:27):
Oh my god.
A very uncomfortable place.

SPEAKER_04 (56:29):
Um that is so again, like going to that idea of like
versus you know, combat drivenversus narrative driven.
Sometimes when you describestuff, uh, and this is good for
me too, is like when you sayhuge, is there a what is the
reference?
Right.
Like uh you could have a hugehouse, but you could also have a

(56:50):
huge skyscraper.
Right.
So you can have a huge sword oryou can have a huge torch.
Like so painting a good pictureis a good thing.
Exactly.
So using your words.
Words are important, you know,bust out that that's the source
sometimes.
Um, but running, I mean, I thinkthis might be a cool thing to
chat about a little bit.
Uh, since you are like runningand GMing the daggers session

(57:15):
that we're that we're about tostart.

SPEAKER_02 (57:16):
Yeah, tomorrow.
Tomorrow.
We buried the lead long enough.
Yes, yes, the Ants Canada AntsChannel would be so proud of us.
Tomorrow, so tomorrow we'regetting together for session one
of uh our campaign.
You want to know how much prepI've done?
Uh none.
Uh I need to do a little bit ofprep.

(57:38):
I will say, um, so one of thethings that I did that I've been
doing for um, I think we talkedabout it briefly.
Yeah.
Uh, but I did it for the BeastFeast campaign, and I'll I'll
probably do it for our game too.
Um, I've been using chat GBT toto generate encounters for me.

SPEAKER_04 (57:56):
You know, so funny thing you should mention that.
I think so, as a as a writer,because you know, my main job is
sound design and composition, soit's still creative, but I also
have been writing forever, everand ever and ever, which uh
helped, which is one of thereasons why I was the GM.
Like I was the guy who's writingall these stories, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And as a funny side note, likeas I was working on this

(58:18):
character for Daggerheart, I'mlike, ah, this could be a fun
short story.
This is maybe uh maybe I look atit a little bit having fun with
it.
I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 (58:28):
I used so I came up with I hope that you you turn
our our session into a shortstory.

SPEAKER_04 (58:36):
Next crystal shard, big next big fantasy pulp
fantasy.
Let's go.
Um, so I was looking at this andwrite it down ideas, like cool
names for for things.
Because you're like, Chris, youcame up with some cool places
during our session zero.
What are those names?
Like help it wasn't like that'syour assignment, but like if you
come up as a player, since thisis your land, this is your

(58:57):
hometown, right?
What's the name of yourhometown?
It's it's what's the what's agood way to phrase it?
You uh I think you get like morebuy-in when that person, when me
as a player goes, Well, I'm fromPhoenix, as opposed to you're
going, well, you're from thistown and you've done this,
right?
You have created.

SPEAKER_02 (59:14):
It feels you feel big a more you feel more
connected to it, right?
Right.
Both you as the player feel moreconnected, and and as a result,
your decisions as a character,as a player character, uh are
going to have more weight.

SPEAKER_04 (59:29):
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
So I took those I I took that toheart and I really I started
writing them down, uh working onuh names as I'm sitting there
doing other you know otherstuff, working on this podcast,
or just like just doodlingstuff.
But I would put these ideas andI put some of them into Chat
GPT.
Right.
And I was like, well, what isthis?
And I was like, here's a name.

(59:50):
What like give me a and I thedescription, like uh blah blah
blah.
It's influenced by like thenorthern tundra of Canada,
Greenland.
Like, give me a feed.
And a vibe.
And Chack T T B went blah blahblah blah blah blah blah.
And I was like, oh, that'sthat's a good starting point.
But what if, right?
So as a writer, while I am Ithought these guys were the bad

(01:00:11):
guys.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:11):
They're they're just Canadians.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:13):
Yeah.
No, no, no.
But this this is what happenswhen Canada goes bad.
I mean, right?
I mean, you don't want to pissCanada off.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:21):
Have we talked about how I feel about Canada?
Oh, that's another whole othershow.
Canada Canadians are evil.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:28):
Canadians are terrible.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:28):
They're the worst.
But I put them in and I waslike, this is I legitimately do
not like talking to people fromCanada.
Oh my gosh.
Like, and this is a recent thingin the last few years, but like,
yeah, I I actually I used to belike, man, I'd love to move to
Canada someday and be uhsurrounded by all those trees
and the mountains, and it'd beso beautiful.

(01:00:49):
Yeah.
And then you know the the worldstarts going to hell.
It's like, yeah, let's get outof let's get out of the US.
Yeah.
Canada would be great.
Let's I want to live in Canada.
Years and years and years.
I want to live in Canada.
People are everyone says peopleare so nice.
Everyone apologizes all thetime.
Uh and then and then I get a jobin technical support.

(01:01:13):
Oh, and I have to help Canadiancustomers, and they are the
worst customers.
Them and Australians.
Okay, consistently.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:21):
You are always the as we as we all know, working in
customer service or slashretail, like you are not, you're
not always catching people attheir best.
No.
So which is always rough.
So, but I get it.
And it's I get it.
It is small business support.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:36):
You know, these are this is people's livelihoods
that's tied to it.
So I don't blame them for beingemotional, but it's like it's
one thing to it's it's one thingto be desperate, it's another
thing to be right, right?
And yeah, you don't need tospread that.
Yeah, come on.

(01:01:57):
They they tend to be verydemanding, rude.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:01):
And dude, you're making us Canadians look bad,
bro.
Come on now.
Not my fault.
No, like I mean, come on,people.
Like be if you're on techsupport next time, just yeah,
try to take a breath or supportbecause the person on the other
end is it's just it, it's theirjob and they're they want to
help you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:17):
And and again, I've met plenty of wonderful, amazing
Canadians.
Like there's a few out there.
It's not all Canadians that arebad, but it's like, you know,
you know what it is?
You know what's funny about it?
Um, my wife, every now and then,I'll go into like binge watching
various TV shows, and one of theTV shows she started binge
watching a couple years ago, itwas like right after COVID.

(01:02:40):
Um was I don't remember what itwas called, but it was some show
about a guy in Canada that ownsa uh like a car, uh-huh.
A used car thing where he likerebuilds used cars and buys and
sells used cars.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:00):
Um is this like a reality?

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:01):
It's a reality show, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:02):
All right, so not a scripted, so reality show.
He's like a used car salesman,but he rebuilds and refurbishes
cars.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:08):
Okay, yeah.
Um and I sat down and watched itwith her a few times, and every
time I'm watching it, I'm like,this guy is such a Canadian
customer.
And and that show really kind oflike it, I I wouldn't, I won't
say like spotlighted the thewhat I'm referring to, but it
like it's interesting to see.

(01:03:30):
Like, oh yeah, he's he's veryvery demanding.
He he's always looking for theedge, he's always looking to
come out ahead.
Not that there's anything wrongwith that, but it's just that's
been my consistent.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:44):
If if that's who you run into all the time, yeah.
Well, it's like you know, likehumanity is uh uh uh the vast
swaths of humanity.
There's always the commondenominator, right?
It don't matter if you'reAustralian, Canadian, or
Mexican, or European orwhatever.
I mean, jerk faces areeverywhere, sadly.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:01):
Meanwhile, I watch uh you know a bunch of YouTube
videos uh of of the CanadianMagic Gathering players, like
Loading Ready Run is the thefirst big popular uh magic show
that that started streaming.
And loading ready run, thoseguys are all amazing and they
all look incredible.
And I'm just waiting for theother shoe to drop.

(01:04:23):
I know there's a dark side,they're Canadians after all.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:26):
Right, there's a dark side in there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:28):
Canadians, they're all super awesome, they had it
really well.
They all seem super rarity.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:34):
It's all the maple syrup they drink.
That's it, just sweetens themup.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:38):
In the end, what it all boils down to, and this this
goes for everything, we're allhuman beings, right?
They're right, there we all comein different shapes, sizes,
colors, personalities, emotionaldifferences.
Yeah, there's good eggs and badeggs, and every society we're
all humans.

(01:04:59):
We all live on Earth.
Yep, we're all weird mammalswith too many fingers.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:04):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:05):
Wait, oh you're right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which is why we're all drawn toplaying role-playing games so we
can experience.
Well, I don't, you know, I wantto see what life is like on that
side.
I want to what is what does aforest elf think of?
I want to walk, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:17):
Oh, so thinking sorry, we're tangenting again.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:21):
Oh, yeah.
Uh I have to have a tangentsound effect if you're gonna be
able to do water elves like ohmy gosh.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:27):
So one of the things that I've done, uh it's not
directly gaming related, but itis gaming adjacent.
Is um are you into anime at all?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:36):
I not I mean, not really.
It is.
I am anime adjacent.
I know of and I have likerecognized some of it, but it's
usually just the big names.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:46):
So there's a a show that my friends were like,
you've gotta watch this.
Yeah.
Like, this is a really goodshow.
And and it's been a long whilesince I've watched an anime show
that's like really like been.
I really loved Delicious inDungeon.
That was a really fun anime.
Um, but it wasn't like it wasn'tlike as incredible as you know

(01:06:10):
the shows that I grew up on,right?
Like, you know, you you look atFull Metal Alchemist, you look
at Neon Genesis Evangelion, youlook at all of these shows that
are like those are the pinnacle,right?
Right.
In terms of uh in terms of me,right?
Um one people are like one benchman so amazing.
I watched it, it was incredible,it was a ton of fun.

(01:06:30):
It wasn't amazing, right?
It didn't like make me move meor make me think or feel.
Um which a lot of those oldanimes did.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:39):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:40):
Uh it was definitely fun and entertaining.
I loved it, yeah.
Um, but but it it was lackingsomething.
The first show uh I've watchedin a long time that's actually
made me feel uh first animethat's made me actually like
think outside of the anime,think outside of the episode
that I'm watching.
Yeah.
Uh is uh free run beyondJourney's End.

(01:07:05):
So Free Run?
Free Ren.
Free Ren Beyond Journey's Edge.
End.
End.
Okay.
So the the what it did is thisshow made me want to play a
freaking elf as a playercharacter in a campaign for the
first time.
Like I'm I'm so it's so cool.
So the show is uh it's set in afantasy, high fantasy world.

(01:07:31):
Okay.
Um, and it's very, very, very,very, very inspired by Dungeons
and Dragons and that kind ofthing.
It obviously they don't theydon't use Dungeons and Dragons
uh names of things necessarily,but uh Free Ren is a mage.
She is Free Ren the Mage, andthen there's uh there's other

(01:07:51):
characters that introduce themas I'm so and so the the priest,
I'm so and so the warrior,right?
Right.
So like it is they're they allhave role-playing classes, every
adventurer.
I'm such and such the monk,yeah.
Right.
So so it is very role-playinginspired.
And uh the show is about uh thecharacter Freerin, who is an

(01:08:16):
elf, and much like traditionalelves that we think of, elves
live basically forever, right?
And they uh in this world theydon't age and they live ex
extremely long lives, longerthan any other race.
Um, but most of the elves havedied out, there's not very many
of them left.

(01:08:36):
Um, and the world is is I don'twant to say plagued, but it's
it's had constant problems fromdemons throughout throughout its
history.
Um and so the show picks up atthe end where Free Ren has

(01:08:56):
finished her adventure with herparty, her priest, her fighter,
yeah, her hero.
Uh and they have slain the demonking.
They have s saved the world fromthe the high-level threat that
is the demon king.
So they have killed the bigboss.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:14):
They they they they finished the campaign.
Yeah, that's it.
Campaign's over.
They turn the page.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:19):
The the show picks up with them showing up and
everyone celebrating the thatthey defeated the demon king.
And they said, We're gonna haveto get together in 50 years and
and remember this day.
So they in the middle of thefirst episode, they fast forward
50 years.
And 50 years later, Freerinshows up at the town that that

(01:09:40):
we start the show, the episodein, and she goes looking for
Himmel the hero, her friend, uhthat she just adventured with,
you know, not too long ago as anelf.
She's lived for kind of youknow, probably thousands of
years.
She's nothing.
Yeah.
Uh, and so she she goes in, shefinds Himmel, the hero, and he's

(01:10:01):
this tiny old man now.
He he was 30 when they finished,he's 80 now, right?
Um, so he's he's an old man.
He's he went from being thepretty boy, the cocky pretty
boy, to being this little oldman with a cane and a beard, and
he's bald.
Uh, and and so they gettogether, they celebrate, and

(01:10:26):
uh, and then they fast forward30 more years.
So now we're 80 years from whenthe episode started.
Okay.
Himmel's passed away.
Yeah, he's died of old age.
Yeah.
So everyone's, you know,mourning him and that kind of
thing.
And so, or maybe it's not 30years, but fast forward a bit
and he he passes away.
Um and so Free Ren, basicallythe story is what does Free Ren

(01:10:51):
do next?
Now that her adventuring partyis starting to die off from old
age.
What do you do after the what doyou do?
And so afterwards, yeah.
She ends up starting a newadventure, she picks up some
new, some new young upstarts asshe goes along.
And uh the show is veryslow-paced, it's incredibly
slow.

(01:11:12):
If you're looking for ahigh-flying action adventure,
you're looking for neon GenesisEvangelion, you're looking for
full metal alchemists, this isnot it.
Okay, this is a slice of lifeanime that's just like we're
just going through these thelife of these adventurers, and
we're just doing these cutelittle cutesy things.
Um, and like most of the combatthat they resolve in in the at

(01:11:38):
least at the beginning of thethe season, is like done through
like smash cuts for like asecond of a pop.
Right.
There's almost no no action inthe show.
Battle's over.
It's mostly traveling and and uhand experiencing doing little
tiny jobs, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:57):
So basically, it's it's the story of walking to
Mordor.
Basically, just we're just on along hope, but much more
heartwarming.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:04):
Yeah, exactly.
And so, and so it's it's supercool.
And in part, and the wholepremise of the story, and the
reason that you get invested init, is Free Run's been alive for
an unfathomable amount of time.
She um she you find out that herhistory goes back a lot further,

(01:12:28):
and like it's actually reallycool how like it's it's a little
Mary Sue ish, how much she'stied in.
Yeah.
But in the grounds of the showand the way that they handle it,
it's done really well.
Um and the where was I goingwith this?

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:46):
So the well, seeing how an elf lives, like you're
like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:50):
So if you live forever, part of it is is like
they'll show up in a town, anduh she's like, Well, we're gonna
have to find jobs.
We're gonna be here for if we'regonna be here for 10 years,
we're gonna need to find jobs.
Yeah.
And then the the girl that she'straveling with is like, we are
not staying here for 10 years.
Yeah, I don't we are gonna behere for a week, and then we're

(01:13:13):
moving on, and then we're movingon because I'm a human and I
don't have 10 years to devote tothis place.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:21):
Um that's true, because when you have that kind
of overview, much like Lord ofthe Rings elves, you know, it's
like you like, I'm around forthousands of years, bro.
Yeah, you humans are a veryshort blip.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:32):
Exactly.
Like this is the first show,like we've thought about it and
we've considered it, right?
But Lord of the Rings, eventhough they talk about it, they
never really explore it.
Yeah.
Where how does a being thatlives forever, close to forever,
uh how do they view the rest ofthe world?
And so it's a really cool,interesting take.

(01:13:54):
So the whole point of the show,that's what I was getting at.
The whole point of the show isher trying to appreciate how
humans view the world.
Because she traveled with Himmelthe Hero and that party of
adventurers, and they left suchan impactful mark on them.
Right, right.

(01:14:14):
For even for being in her lifefor such a short time, and also
seeing her impact on them,right?
Uh, it really kind of moved her,right?
And so she's she's exploring tolearn more about the human
experience and the human uhhuman nature, yeah.

(01:14:35):
And so it's it's super cool howthey do it.
Uh, it does get a little bitmore action-oriented toward the
end of the season.
Uh, and some of those thosefight scenes are so cool.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:44):
Now, where can we find this?

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:45):
It's on Netflix right now.
It's not a Netflix exclusive.
Delicious Dungeon is publishedby Netflix.
Um, but this one is currently onNetflix.
And my I know it's onCrunchyroll as well.
Okay.
People have told me that.
So it's cool.
I mean I love it's a neat show.
It's it's very slow.
It's not for everyone.
My wife hated it at first.

(01:15:07):
She was like, this is too whenare we gonna do something
interesting?
But then, but she watched acouple episodes and she was
like, by the end of it, she waslike, when's the next season
coming out?
I need more of this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:18):
You know, it's interesting because stories like
that, when you take a characterthat can have such an overview,
uh, and then you turn them andexplore the human condition,
basically.
Yeah.
What does it mean to be human?
We do have, we think we havesuper long lives, but do we?
Like, what do we have?
What is what is our effect onthe world around us?

(01:15:39):
Which is why I think storiesabout vampires are very popular
because uh you have this thingthat was once human and now is
immortal, basically.
How does that change you and howdoes that affect your view of
the world?
You know, it changes yourviewpoint, but then you still
have to interact with humans,which are very short.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:57):
Yeah, 80 to 100 years, 10 years is is an
eternity for us.
Like, like what were you doing10 years ago?
Right?
With that, that's 2015.
Yeah, yeah.
I've been playing, I we we talkabout all the time.
We've been playing uhrole-playing games for 20, 30
years.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:15):
Like that's so long, that is forever.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:19):
Yes, but in in the view of someone that lives for a
thousand years, right, like 30years is nothing.
Right.
It's it's literally three yearsfor that person.
Right, because that's where theygo by comparison.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:34):
It'll be like, well, when we celebrate 10 years,
they're like, Well, I mean, I'vecelebrated a hundred years, like
this is my hundredthanniversary, and we're like,
What?
Right?
Yeah the idea of like having thething, and that's that is cool.
I really piques my interest,honestly, for a show like that,
uh, and stories like that.
So I'll check that out.
Because I I some of my writingand stories that I think about

(01:16:54):
is that like, how does someonehow does it change you when you
live that long or approach thatlong?
What is the idea of immortality?
I mean, is that a good idea?
Like, like how would it wouldyou go crazy?
How do you inter interact withthis world that to you honestly

(01:17:14):
is like never-ending change,change.
It just keeps moving.
And you're like, well, I'mstill, it's been a hundred
years, but to other people it'suh, you know, to you it's been
10, but to other people, like uhyou've watched four generations
of people go by.
Right.
You know, uh that I think whatlike shows like that, like
ponder and ask questions of theviewer, hopefully, as you watch

(01:17:36):
the story.
But you might not realize it.
So afterwards you're like, oh,huh.
I think it and some people mightdisagree.
Um, Squid Game kind of did thatin a slightly different way.
It's like, what does it mean tobe human?
Right.
How do we look at other peoplethat are from different levels
of life, both both uh financial,social, whatever?

(01:17:59):
Uh how, you know, how do we lookat them and how do they look at
us?
How do we interact?
And what happens when we put allthese characters in a crazy
situation?

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:07):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:07):
Uh, and then that from those interactions we
explore the idea of being human,right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:14):
I interrupted our whatever we were talking about
for that tangent.
I don't remember what we weretalking about.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:20):
Well, I think we were going on like uh look
thinking about you were you weretalking about the world building
and writing your novel.
Right.
Well, yes, no, just writing someshort stories, but using ChatGPT
and so on.
That's what it was, chat GPT.
Um, and creating these names.
Now, as a writer, I think chatGPT Chat GPT can be a good tool.

(01:18:41):
Right.
Um, but to me, I the fear I haveof that is be as opposed to
being a tool like, oh, we couldjust use it to expand our
imaginations, it becomes acrutch or the only thing we
start leaning on.
So those muscles, as you say,those muscles that we use to
have conversations in the realworld, frankly, that we use to

(01:19:02):
play these games, those musclesI think can be affected by that
because we don't have to do it.
We just go, chat TPT, look atthis.
Now, if we go, I have come upwith this an idea, chat TPT,
give me an outline of a coupleof towns that would work around
this mountain.
And if they go, and it goes, I'mgonna take that, but I want to

(01:19:23):
take it out and extrapolate fromthat, right?
Just I think chat GPT is greatfor an outlining, spitballing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:32):
So if you're throwing stuff at a wall and see
what sticks and what I agree, Iagree wholeheartedly.
And so, like the only reason I'mable to use Chat GPT to build
these encounters, one, I I'vebeen doing this long enough that
I know kind of how I want toimplement the encounters.
Right, right.
So really I'm just using it fora balancing tool.

(01:19:53):
Yeah, right.
Like I want to make sure myencounter there I had it
generate five encounters for theBeast Feast campaign, and uh I
used four of them so far, andthe way I used half of them, two
of them, is I twisted them.

(01:20:14):
Like I used what it generatedand applied it to the situation.
I didn't use it as it had spitit out because I'm again because
I've I've been doing this, I'veI've exercised that muscle, and
I know kind of what I'm lookingfor in that encounter.
Um basically part the the bigreason I'm doing it for for

(01:20:35):
Daggerheart specifically isDaggerheart right now, because
it's still such a brand newgame, yeah, there's very little
in terms of monsters that exist.
There's no monster manual.
Right, right.
Um, so I'm very limited in termsof what I can pick from.
And especially when I'm doing astory that's about like, you
know, uh you want to eat all themonsters.

(01:20:57):
How do I build an encounter forthat?
Right.
Um, and how do I keep it varied?
And so it spits out these randommonsters, but then I can twist
them and I can mold them to makethem my own.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:06):
Giving you a kernel, a kernel or story hook that you
can use to be like, oh, I likethis part of it, not using the
whole thing as rote.
Exactly.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:14):
Like all the bandit leaders and cultists that are in
that in the core book ofDaggerhart.
I can't use those.
They can't eat those.
Nope.
So I mean, nope, nope, theycan't.
So so I have to use I eitherhave to create it myself, which
unfortunately I don't have thetime to do.
Yeah.
Or I can use some use a toollike ChatGPT, and I can say,

(01:21:37):
here's the SRD, here's here'sthe free rules document that's
been posted.
Okay.
Upload this to ChatGPT, write mean encounter, and it kind of it
spits out stuff that's notperfect.
It it has a lot of D D rulesthat kind of flow in.
Um, but I can I can kind oftwist it a little bit and I can
say, okay, I want this encounterto be about this.

(01:22:00):
Okay.
And I want this to be the coretenants.
I want there to be an uh anundertone of like food in
everything.
Right.
So so create me uh a monsterthat has like a flavor-oriented
bit to it, has has flavorflavor.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:18):
Flavor flavor!

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:19):
Flavor flavor, uh, and and write that for me.
And so the reason I wanted totalk about it is I agree with
you.
I think chat GBT is notsomething that we as humanity
need to be reliant on.
Right, right.
Um, and it's not something thatwe should abuse.
And I'm not saying that in inthat like I'm terrified of the

(01:22:41):
robot overlords, even though Iam all hail the robot overlords.
Um that being said, I I want itto I I want to encourage the the
new GMs out there or aspiringGMs or the experienced GM, like
some GMs like myself that arethat are like I want to play D
D.
I just don't have the time tocreate a world.

(01:23:02):
I don't have time to createencounters or or plan a session.
You don't have to anymore.
We have we have a tool that weas GMs can use to fill in the
gaps and make that that prepwork significantly shorter.

(01:23:23):
You still have to do you stillhave to do some work, um, and
it's still up to you tocreatively either give chat GPT
the correct creative promptingor uh creatively twist what it
gives you to lock into yourgames.

(01:23:43):
And so I I wanted to encourageGMs out there to try it, to to
go into Chat GPT or or whateverwhatever AI program that you
prefer.
Um this is not a chat GPTsponsored podcast.
Uh it is sponsored by the robotoverlords, so I'll hail the
robot alert.
I'll hail, I'll hail.

(01:24:04):
Um go go try the tool.
Yeah.
See if it works, see if it worksfor you.
Try to see if it can my mypurpose in bringing it up is if
it can get you to a table withyour friends to create memories
and create memorable jokes aboutyou know school bus-sized frogs

(01:24:27):
and and bring you guys togetherto just play your favorite
role-playing game.
Do it.
Yeah.
Like that's winning.
Absolutely.
I would much rather you use thattool and and play more games
than sit there and listen and belike, oh, sounds like Chris and

(01:24:48):
Paul are having so much fun.
That does sound like fun.
And I would recommend too theidea of that.
And meanwhile, we get to createNPCs that are some of the best
NPCs we I got to create the uhthe town alchemist.
And she's the best, right?

SPEAKER_06 (01:25:05):
It's awesome.
She talks like she's one of thecharacters from a multi-python
screen.
Oh my gosh, I love it.
Yeah, wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 (01:25:20):
I can't wait.
I can't wait.
But I I agree.
Using ChatGPT to help youbrainstorm and outline it.
I really thought that becauseI've obviously it's been
forever, uh, the idea of havinga session zero where you sit
down kind of as a group um andcreate your characters together.

(01:25:41):
So you have that you you arebuilding the camaraderie from
the get-go.
Right.
As you look around, because Iknow like I usually play a like
a ranger type or a wizard type.
Like that's the two things Ilean toward.
And then Mike took uh Ishouldn't say took Mike really
liked the idea of playing a likesorcerer kind of guy.

(01:26:02):
I'm like, okay, all right, so wemight have one, and then uh
another guy, like another playertook something similar.
I'm like, okay, so where shouldI, where do I land uh as we talk
about our characters and whereyou're from?
And I'm like, I still want tolink to this.
And then you went, well, there'sthese ideas, and I was like, oh,
that sounds like fun.
Okay, let me look at thosecards, like a war mage versus

(01:26:23):
this mage.
Like you can still be maybe nota sorcerer.
Again, you're not a to coin theterm, uh, Jedi, space wizard,
but you maybe you're a littleyou're the other side, you're
the buck learner one, you're thethe the yin to his yang.
And I'm like, okay, that is alsoscratches the itch, right?
Um, but building those sessionzeros together, you don't

(01:26:46):
necessarily have to have likethe world, you know, created,
right?
Sitting down at this sessionzero, I thought was really fun
because you were listening to usand we and you asked some
questions.
And that's a really good partabout being a DM during that
session is asking thesequestions, but what about this?
Oh, what's that from?
Oh, that's a cool connection,but how?
Uh, so you facilitated that, andthen as we build it up, we're

(01:27:08):
like, well, are we all from thesame area of this planet?
Right.
Or not.
Like, oh, I'm from because I'mlike, my character is from the
north, and I'm heading this way,and you're from here.
So maybe this we ran into uh Iwas escaping and doing this, and
I ran into your character hereand your character here.
Um, so allowing the players tohelp with that world building,
right?

(01:27:28):
You can start with a small, likemaybe a small island or a small
section, a city, a town, uh, adeserted rune that you've, you
know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:38):
There's a core tenant of the game Apocalypse
World, we've talked aboutseveral times, um, that I really
took to heart and I think Ithink really applies here.
And honestly, like if you're anaspiring GM and you want to up
your GM game a little bit, um,and just kind of acquire some

(01:27:59):
more tools.
The Dagger Heart book's greatfor it, but it's like 10, 15, 20
bucks for a PDF.
Uh, go download Dungeon World orApocalypse World and read, just
read through the uh the the GMsections.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:15):
Um one of the theory.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:17):
Dungeon World or Apocalypse World.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:19):
Okay.
It's the same system.
Apocalypse world is theoriginal, um, but it's it's set
around like Mad Maxrole-playing.
Nice.
Uh Dungeon World is inspired byit's it's like, okay, what if we
took Apocalypse World's systemfor note and then we applied it
to Dungeons and Dragons world instorytelling.

(01:28:40):
And so um, but but the point isthe the core tenant that that I
think that I one of the biggesttakeaways that I have from it is
um whenever you're building abuilding a world, yeah.
Create the world, but leaveblanks.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:57):
Don't fill in everything.
Right.
Leave.
Like imagine for a minute, likeone of the things that I've done
when I would when I've runDungeon World is I took index
cards and I wrote the names ofplaces and then a little did a
little doodle, like the thelonely mountain, right?
And and I'd draw a little littleoutline of a mountain, right?

(01:29:18):
Something super crude and quick.
And I put that down on thetable.
Okay, the mountains here, thisis where you guys are at.
Yeah.
All right, where you where areyou guys trying to head?
Oh, we're trying to get to umyou know the land of the lost
forgotten, right?
And so I write down the land ofthe lost forgotten.
I say, okay, what's in there?
And they get they say it, and Ido a little doodle that kind of

(01:29:39):
recommends it, and say, okay,that's you know, southwest from
the lonely mountain, or orwhatever, or maybe you guys tell
me that it is.
So I put that, you know, to thelower left of that index card.
And so now you have a visualrepresentation.
Yeah, but it's just two indexcards, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:54):
But what's between the two?
And what's between the two?

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:56):
And so then we write another index card and say,
Okay, well, between Betweenthese two is this.
Right.
And we'll build this map out ofindex cards during the session.

SPEAKER_06 (01:30:05):
That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:06):
And you know, we're just filling in whatever is
relevant.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:10):
Exactly.
It's kind of like little whenyou're well, I still love
playing them.
It's kind of like uh when youplayed Mad Libs as a kid.
Yeah.
Right?
Like just read the stuff, leavesome of those blanks so that
when you get there, you can askyour players questions, uh, or
maybe just think out loud,right?
Like what's I I don't know, whatdoes it look like?
What do you guys think it lookslike?

(01:30:30):
Uh and then hopefully as you'redoing this, the players also buy
in and they go, All right, I'mnot gonna say there's a treasure
thing in every room.
They go, what would be a coolthing?
What would be interesting for usto experience, right?
Right.
What would be cool to happen?

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:48):
Uh even if it's just like uh, you know, if if I'm
asking a player then, what I'mexpecting, not expecting, that's
the wrong word.
What I'm hoping for is like,even if something is mundane as
like it smells like flowers inhere, or it it has uh this warm
glow that makes me feel verycomfortable, right?

(01:31:09):
Um, or or it's uncomfortablycold, right?
Right just something simple isis all I'm looking for.
Like the rough hewn walls seemreally close, and you're like,
oh now if you wanna if you wantto dig into it a little bit
deeper and and you know and andyou feel inspired in the moment,
you're just like, well, there'sthese weird carvings around the

(01:31:31):
walls, and the carvings remindme of you know Thanksgiving
dinner or whatever.
Um then that's fine.
Like like and then as a jam, Ican kind of build on that.
Yeah.
Any of those.
I can take those and I can twistthem, and I can say, okay, it's
uncomfortably cold here, yeah,because this place is inhabited

(01:31:53):
by an ice cream monster, an icecream ooze.
Yeah.
Uh, and the ice cream ooze isuh, you know, is threatening the
people in this area.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:02):
It's a strawberry gelatinous cube.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:04):
Exactly.
Uh or or or maybe you know thethe warm, comfortable comforting
glow brings people together andand more people are showing up
in this room than is normal.
You meet some some faces here,and then we we create some NPCs
together, right?
Right, like it gives usopportunities to build on the

(01:32:27):
story and tell something moreinteresting.
So if if your GM asks you, whatstands out to you in this room?
Don't say a treasure chest.
Yeah.
By the way, the treasure chestturned out to be a mimic, of
course.
Of course it did.
And and all, and to that end,uh, like before before we even
got up to it, they're like, Whatare you doing?
It's probably a mimic.

(01:32:47):
Don't even go to it.
Don't touch it! Don't touch it!But I gotta open it.
So he opens it, it's a mimic, hefights it.
The the other two the otherparties just standing there
watching, they're like, I'm notgetting involved in this.
This is on you, bro.
He needs to learn his lesson.
Uh and then it's awesome.
And then, like, he he finishesthe fight.

(01:33:08):
And it was a populated area.
I described there with otherpeople around, and so they're
like, if if it was if it was anactual treasure chest, don't you
think one of these people wouldhave opened it?
Yeah, and so he finishes thefight, and and I'm like, okay,
MPC walks by and he says, Ah, heopened the the what was clearly

(01:33:29):
a mimic, huh?
What an idiot.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:31):
What an idiot.
Oh my gosh, it's awesome.
Well, I think we're gettingclose, dude.
Is there anything like uh aswe're talking about like this GM
stuff, uh wrapping, kind ofwrapping up, closing it up?
We're talking about and think oflooking ahead to our dagger
heart session tomorrow as a GM,like some thoughts that you've

(01:33:51):
if you want to share any, as youwork on this new campaign we're
about to open up tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 (01:33:59):
Uh I mean, mostly I just kind of like wrote down a
lot of things, little notes thatof things that we had talked
about.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, if if somebodygave me a a name, I made sure to
write that down and underlineit.
Right.
Um, you know, I tried to writedown little things that people
were saying about theircharacters and how they related

(01:34:19):
to each other.
Great, great.
Uh in the world buildingsection, I I would just kind of
like write down the things as wewere talking about them, uh, the
things that stand up.
So, like uh land, some placesare safer, but closer to
crystals are more dangerous.
Natural crystals mutate naturallife around them, uh, creating
monsters and half halfancestries tend to be more

(01:34:42):
common in this world.
Uh, and that was partiallybecause a lot of our players,
you know, ended up.
Do you have their halfsies?
Doing halfsies.
We have a giant, giant slashturtle, a monkey slash, uh, it's
not demon, but demon.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:55):
Monkey demon and a monkey.

SPEAKER_02 (01:34:57):
Monkey slash goblin.
Right.
Um, so we've got a couple couplehalfsies in our party of five.
So so yeah, we're we're kind oflike leaning on that.
And um yeah, I don't rememberwhat I wanted to bring up on
this.
I think it was just kind of liketo look through if we if we were

(01:35:19):
talking about the worlds, justto kind of reference if we
needed it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:22):
But well, as a kind of closing up the podcast here.
There's a couple of things as aGM or DM, uh to say, hey, look
at this, look at this.
I know we've probably said themalready, but like one or two
things like jump right in, don'tbe afraid, don't be scared.
Yeah, try it.
Just get in there.

(01:35:42):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35:43):
Just try it, and and you may not like it at first,
and that's fine.
Yeah, you may not like it atall.
Maybe GMing isn't for you, butlike the worst thing you can do
is sit in fear of doing a badjob.
You will do a great job.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:56):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35:56):
Like, even if you make mistakes, and even if you
don't stick to those tenantsthat I mentioned earlier, uh you
you're still getting togetherwith your friends.
Exactly.
You're still telling a coolstory and uh, you know,
hopefully everyone has a goodtime.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:14):
And that's and that's the important part.
And there's plenty of Cheetosand Mountain Dew to go around.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:17):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:18):
You know, can't forget the the sustenance.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:20):
Um and ogre sling knives.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:23):
Okay, yes, can't wait to find mine.
Uh well, I think that's beenawesome, dude.
I think we had some cool thingsand ideas about like GMing and
getting people out there.
Uh don't be afraid.
Uh I like your idea because youhad notes.
Having a notebook that you justas you as we in the session
zero, which I again I thinkthat's a really cool idea,

(01:36:45):
during that session, take notesand ask questions and provide
support for your players toexplore and get ideas.
You could be like, all right,maybe, maybe not like maybe not
that far away, but like, let'smaybe pull it back.
Try this idea, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:37:01):
Um and look at other role-playing games.
I mentioned I I mentionedDungeon World, I mentioned
Apocalypse World.
If you're if you're a if you'rethe forever DM of your group and
uh or or you just like GMing andbut you wanna you wanna try new
things or or become a better GM,maybe uh look at other books,
look at other systems.
Uh, even if you guys don't playthose systems, a lot of times

(01:37:23):
you'll find tools and thingsthat you can use.
Exactly.
Uh, like I said, ApocalypseWorld.
I've I've never actually run anApocalypse World game, ran
Dungeon World a few times.
Um, but the Apocalypse Worldbook is one of my most treasured
possessions as a GM because ithas so much good stuff, uh, so
many good tools and and ways tothink about you know running a

(01:37:46):
cool game.
Uh Daggerheart's also super goodfor it.
Like, honestly, like uh I can'twait for us to get more more
books in stock.
But the the Daggerheart, one ofthe things that I that I love
about Daggerheart uh from aGMing perspective, even if I
stuck with just D, is thecampaign frames.
You know, I wrote down all ofthese, all these notes from our

(01:38:08):
world building.
Um, I I really want to, and Idon't know if I'll have time
before tomorrow, but I reallywant to sit down and write a
campaign frame for the worldthat we built together.
Yeah, and have and have thatcodified, right?
Like have something a sheet ofpaper that I can hand you guys
and say, here's our descriptionof our world, here's what it

(01:38:29):
means, here's what it means tobe different things and to do
different things in this world,and here's and then if we ever
wanted to tell a new story inthis world, we have a a
reference sheet to go off of.
And that's that's a tool thatyou know, or or even as we're
playing through the campaign, Ican look back at that sheet and

(01:38:50):
I can say, that's right.
Right.
These are these are the thingsthat inspire you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:54):
Maybe we're straying too far from our core ideas, and
you can you can push them andchange them because you can
always like, is this a goodchange?
You know, are we pushing it inthe wrong direction, right
direction?

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:07):
Are we still telling the story we want to tell?

SPEAKER_04 (01:39:08):
Exactly.
And as I like to say, you know,don't hesitate to like beg,
borrow, and steal from all ofyour favorite favorite stuff
you've read, uh, other gamesthat you've played, because
movies TV shows.
We all do it, and it alwaysmakes a fun thing because
somebody's gonna be like, I getthe you know, I get the
reference.
Ooh, that's kind of fun.
But then you twist it and messwith them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:39:28):
So don't drag I've talked about the Dragon
Apocalypse World many times.
That is a straight one-to-oneripoff of the story from Final
Fantasy XIV, one of theexpansions.
Yeah, yeah.
It is just like if my playersever sat down and they played
through that that expansion inthe game, they'd be like, wait a

(01:39:48):
minute, this is very similar.
And it's like, yes, it is.
Ding ding.
Uh, but but you know, it it alsodiverged a lot.
It started as a one-to-one copy,but because through playing it
and through telling the storyand telling the story we want to
tell, it evolved into its ownthing, and it diverged pretty
far from the way.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:07):
Yeah, but it's not unlike uh an interesting thing
is like, for example, the OfficeTV show started as a BBC show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:40:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:40:14):
And then it came to America.
And I think America.
Right, came to America.
The first episode or two werealmost a carbon copy of those
episodes.
Right.
Because they wanted to that'sthe foundation.
They wanted to start there.
But as they as the writers andthe actors, as the show grew and

(01:40:34):
just uh took on its own life,you see it starts to diverge and
become its own thing.
So don't be scared to grab somestuff because you have a group
of players around you that aregoing to add their own unique
ideas to it and just add alittle seasoning to that soup.
Yep, and it'll become your ownthing.
And you'll love it.
Exactly.
And it'll taste great,hopefully, less filling.

(01:40:57):
All right, dude.
Well, everybody has had funlistening uh to yet another
awesome episode of theFunkatronic Rex podcast.
Uh, if you have, don't hesitateto leave a comment, um, like it,
subscribe it, do all the things.
Uh, let us know where you'relistening so that other people
can find us out there on theinterwebs.

(01:41:17):
Of course, we are also an actualstore here in the Phoenix area.
Uh, we have apprentices on theweb, www.funkatronicrex.com.
Got it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:27):
And then there's Discord.
Yep, check us out on ourDiscord.
Chris and I are active on there.
Ask us questions, poke us,whatever, whatever you need to
do.
Um, we are here.
We want we want to continuebuilding and facilitating this
super awesome community.
Yes.
Funkatronic Rex built around.
Uh, also, if you have thefinancial means, if it's

(01:41:48):
something that's comfortable foryou, if it's something that you
are able to, please considersupporting our Patreon.
We try to put out some supercool stuff for you guys out
there every month.
It helps Chris and I helps toensure that Chris and I can
continue to bring you thesepodcasts.
So if you enjoy the podcast, uhdefinitely consider doing that
if it's something that you cando.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42:07):
That's awesome.
All right, y'all.
Well, we're gonna wrap it up.
We will check you guys nexttime.
Audio to be ghost, loading.

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Funkatronic Rex Podcast: Season 2 Episode 14 Ideas on Being a GM

🎙 Funkatronic Rex Podcast: Season 2 Episode 14 — Ideas on Being a GM

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Episode Transcript

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