Meet the Narrators of the Hanna-Barbera and Mouse Tracks Audio Books

A rare look at how audio books are made from two of the top narrators, STEPHEN BOWLBY (who recorded Hanna-Barbera; The Recorded History) and KELLI TAGER (narrator of Mouse Tracks: The Story of Walt Disney Records.

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages, we love Head of our
Mirror. Welcome to the Fantastic World
of Hannah and Barbera, a celebration of Bill, Hannah, Joe

(00:32):
Barbera and the thousands of people, past and present who
have shared in their entertainment tradition.
And now your host, Greg Airbar. Thank you, Chris Anthony.
Welcome to the fantastic world of Hannah and Barbera.
I am Greg Airbar, author of Hannah Barbera, The Recorded

(00:52):
History, and this is a really cool opportunity to be able to
interview these two artists who read and narrate entire books on
audio. This is fascinating to me and I
hope it'll be fascinating to you, ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Stephen Bolby and Miss Kelly Tager.

(01:14):
Thank all clubs, for all my people, thank you silent claps.
Silence is very important in ourindustry.
Yes, yes, yes. Yes, you know, silence speaks
words they say. They don't pay those words, but.
Right. The ones we speak pay.
I'll let each of you sort of introduce what you're very

(01:36):
because you're multi talented, your specialty is doing
audiobooks, but you do lots of things.
I'll start with you, Kelly. Let's talk about some of the
things that you're doing currently.
Audiobooks is my main jam, but I'm also a mom to two young
girls at home and I do other voice over stuff.
So I do English dubbing of foreign shows, I do commercials,

(01:59):
I've done anime in the past, animation, all that kind of
stuff. So audiobooks is is my main
acting slash nerd slash happy place.
And Stephen? Well, I have kind of a
bifurcated career as far as thatgoes.
I'm a lifetime career filmmaker,and so I have directed and
edited hundreds and hundreds of commercials, documentaries,

(02:22):
business films, all kinds of stuff like that.
But I always did voice over stuff all along the way, and
commercials and film narrations and all those things.
And then somewhere along the line, I kind of just made the
decision to say, Gee, this audiobook thing looks kind of
fun. So I went out to Los Angeles and
studied audiobook performance some time ago now, 1415 years

(02:43):
ago, whatever. And so now this is one of the
two main things I do, audio booknarration and film editing as
well. I edit a multi camera podcast
for the Star Trek world, the world of Star Trek.
It's called the Decon Chamber. So you can pick that up wherever
you get your fine quality podcasts.

(03:03):
Cool. There's just a few questions
I've always wondered about, and I've listened to many, many
audiobooks. I mean, going back to when I was
a kid and we would sit in the library listening to, I don't
know if you've heard of the Cadman Records where you would
have a narrator, or the Argo Records where on disc you would
have a famous actor reading either an abridged version or a

(03:24):
complete version of a book. No music, just the actor and the
reading. Cadman was A and still is.
I think it's owned by someone else.
They started with, I think DylanThomas way back when LP's were
invented and they could fit a lot of time on an LP.
And then along came by cassetteswhere you would get boxes with

(03:45):
long boxes, sometimes with entire books in it.
The Harry Potter series, that was done two ways because the
books were written two ways. So Stephen Fry did the British
version and Jim Dale did the American version.
I wonder when I listen to those,how in the world?
First of all, when you're doing something with voices, and even

(04:07):
in my books you've got quotes, how do you keep track of the
tone and the timber and the character that you've given to
those quotes and voices? Well, First off, you always make
a a file with a character samplein case your brain goes away and
you don't remember what the heckyou did.
So I think that's that's important, important thing if

(04:29):
you're doing like a series, especially and in book one,
you've got Nancy and then in book 10, Nancy comes back, but
you haven't seen Nancy for like the last five years that you've
been narrating the series. You're like Nancy, who are, you
know, so that's very helpful. That's your backup.
What also helps with that is picturing someone from your own

(04:51):
life to substitute for that character.
Or like I've based it on movie stars or other people that I
know as well. And so I don't have to think,
what did that daddy's voice sound like?
Oh no, it I just need to make him sound like Michael Keaton
or, and however Michael Keaton comes out in my brain, 'cause I
know it's not going to be the same.
So that's my method. I know everyone has kind of
different variations on that, I don't know it.

(05:11):
I think mine's a variation on the same thing.
We all carry around in our back pocket our little repertory
company of people that we've metthroughout our lives and draw
from those people, those characters that informed us in
their spoken words over the years.
Whether it's a famous actor, youknow, that you're kind of
invoking or if it's your 8th grade math teacher in my case,

(05:34):
that I use for a variety of characters and, and things like
that, it's all fodder. And I think to a certain extent,
there are just maybe some of us that are a little warped.
And I'll just speak for myself in that.
You know, it started when I was a kid and my mom would say,
you're such a mimic. OK, Well now it comes out in a

(05:56):
variety of ways. Relatives are a gold mine.
Oh, relative big. Time I've channeled my
grandparents many a time during.Yeah, because as kids behind the
scenes, so to speak, we would doimpressions of them before and
after they visited. To this day, we have phrases and
stuff. So there's a tip right there if

(06:17):
you're interested folks and pursuing this career is you're
already set if you got some flamboyant and outrageous
relatives or people like that. There's a lot of voices and
characters. And no matter what the book is,
how do you cast those voices, especially if you haven't gotten
all that much information or if they're a real person?

(06:42):
Any basic acting thing is what does this person want?
What have they been through? Is there a back story that
informs how they sound? What's their intention?
You know, all that acting stuff and that overlaid on top of the
sort of basic fodder of what does someone sound like, Where
are they from, what part of the country, those sorts of things.

(07:03):
It becomes a bit of a mixture, Ithink, a little bit of a clay
amalgam, as it were, that says this is now what I'm going to
make this person sound like. And so much of what we do is, as
we all know, is solo. We're here in the booth.
Sometimes you get directed, often times you don't.
So you just make decisions and hopefully we get cast because

(07:27):
they know we're going to bring something to this particular
genre that's unique to us. A lot of the times the writer
also gives us lots of wonderful clues about how this person is
looked upon in the book or from other characters or with
descriptions. So when we're prepping, we're
always looking for those little Nuggets for character

(07:48):
development. I don't know about you, Steven,
but that's one thing that I am still constantly asked about
because audiobooks, I don't think we're really on many
people's radar for a long time. And then COVID happened and then
they exploded basically. And they've gotten so much more
popular. There's so many more narrators
now, there's a lot more trainingout there, information,
etcetera. And Julia Whelan's book, Thank

(08:09):
You for Listening came out and that kind of popularized things
a lot more, which has been great.
But the question I still get asked all the time is do you
read the book first? Yes, that is one of the common
things that yes, absolutely. Which I understand if you know
nothing about the business. And so I have to do a deep
breath and be patient when I explain it.

(08:29):
And then I go, yes, yes, we do. We do because we can't figure
out with you guys that the murder on page 254, oh, the
Butler did it. Who knew?
Like we have to tell that story leading up to it.
We have to craft that story. Or the infamous on page 363 when
they casually mentioned with hisTexas accent.

(08:51):
With his Texas accent. Which was never mentioned from
page one with this main character.
We've all had that moment and cried and hopefully never again.
So yes, we do read the books 1stand that helps get all those
little character Nuggets and figure out what the tone of the
story is, what the author's trying to convey, all those

(09:12):
kinds of things. You're constantly playing
detective. Finding the author's voice and
narrative too absolutely has a lot to do with it.
It's you put your finger exactlyon it, Kelly.
It's like, what is the tone of this thing?
Is it kind of light and lively so that the regular narrative is
sort of, you know, it's casual, it's fine.
Or is it not so much so and you're pretending doomed to come

(09:34):
around every corner. So you have to have that sense
of what genre is this and what'sexpected by the audience to a
certain extent. And as we all talk about forging
the connection between the author's ideas and the ears of
the listener. That also goes for nonfiction,
not just fiction. Absolutely.
Because you're still conveying the author's intent.

(09:56):
You're still either arguing a point and saying This is why
people need to listen to this important thing, or you're
saying this is so cool, which Mouse tracks absolutely is, and
why it's so much fun for me to do being a Disney fan.
So you were absolutely still playing that intention.
That's right. Regardless, and Greg's books are
like that, because that comes out in the writing.

(10:18):
That sense of his voice. It's like like, oh, I can hardly
wait to tell you about this, youknow?
It's just, it's magical. Yeah, I've been having a lot of
fun geeking out with them. Yeah, I mean, I could go into
the grocery store and pretty much start doing this if
somebody says Yogi Bear and now you know.
Oh, let me tell you. So that's kind of me.

(10:39):
And in the case of Mastrex, Tim,So when you were casting about
to the side, the tone, that's kind of where you came from.
The writer The author wants to share this information so very
much. Yes, and all of them do.
However, their styles don't necessarily get you there.

(10:59):
Absolutely. What you said about nonfiction
is so true. I just did two books in a row,
one of which was enormously repetitive and very cool in
business terms. And so when it's written that
way, it's a little bit of a battle to try to get that sense
of discovery or excitement or whatever kind of into it.

(11:20):
Whereas the one that followed itas about an equally dry topic.
But the enthusiasm was there in the writing.
So it was like, oh, you know, I'm going to tell you about
healthcare. Like, no, seriously.
And it flows from what's on the paper.
Hell yeah. I did a book on financial
planning. It was the first nonfiction I
ever did, like years ago. And I've never been so excited

(11:42):
about financial planning becauseit was written so well and was
so fun. And I went and got a financial
planner after that because I'm like, I know what to look for.
And this was really educational,so.
And we're the ones that are buying all these books that
these people talk about. I just know it's like, oh, I
can't wait. When I narrated your Hanna
Barbera book, Greg, the other book that I had to go get the

(12:03):
one about all of the music tracks of the music composition
from the 60s, particularly television scoring.
That would be John Burlingame. That was Burlingame's book, so I
had to stop now rating and go get that book because I'm such a
geek. I'm looking currently at all the
Disneyland magic past levels because I need to go back to
Disneyland. It's been months.

(12:25):
Well, you know, what's fascinating too, is that, and we
can mention Tantor Media is the company that produces this
through University Press of Mississippi.
And kudos to them. Thank you very much.
They're two different books. And in Steven, in your voice,
you have the excitement but alsoan intensity and a bit of

(12:47):
gravitas. And I love hearing you talk
about Magilla Gorilla and Woo Bear.
Because that's the whole idea isthis stuff is fun and silly and
you can revel in its silliness and out of it makes no sense,
but it's still an art form unto itself.
What Hanna Barbera did was vitally important to the

(13:10):
entertainment industry. And it's almost like I hear that
in your voice. And then Kelly, with you, you've
got that sense of wonder and thelove that you have of Disney
that's so important because the heritage of Disney is all about
the wonder and the discovery. And both very, very

(13:30):
enthusiastic. And I'm sure there were a lot of
great people who they thought about.
But the miracle of the fact thatthey chose you to for a reason.
Why do you suppose that was to you?
Wow, that's a tough question to.Take this first.
Well, my goodness, first of all,I love my relationship with
Tantor. Tantor has such great titles and

(13:51):
really gives me an opportunity to explore a variety of areas.
And over my short audiobook career of 1415 years, whatever
it is, I've only done a couple of 100 titles.
You know, we have notches in ourbalance.
Of course, you know, it's oh, how many titles have you got?
And I remember laboring away in,you know, in the single digits
for a long time going will I does anybody love me?

(14:13):
Will I ever, you know, so just my thanks to Tantor as well for
great casting. Just all around.
They have a great stable of people.
They got a whole bunch of us. They keep many people very busy.
So, you know, hats off to them as far as that goes.
And so who makes those magical decisions?
Well, the people in the casting department, and they do that

(14:36):
voodoo that none of us knows about.
I don't know. Kelly, do you have insight?
I was. Wondering who cast you?
Do you remember? Who specifically?
Yeah, do you remember who? I just remember possibly
Hillary. I was surprised because I my
e-mail was from someone who is relatively new.

(14:57):
I think it was Hollis over therewho is very recent and I was
like, how does this girl know mysoul?
I was very confused because whatI love is what you were saying.
Because they do so many books, you really do get a great
variation. But like one of the last books I
did for them was Joyce Carol Oates.
So for them to say, oh, the Joyce Carol Oates girl should

(15:20):
absolutely do mouse tracks. I was like, thank you so much
for this because I was literallyin the middle of reading Hayley
Mills's autobiography when this offer came in.
I felt like I manifested it. I was like, are you kidding me
right now? I listened to the Monkeys Uncles
still because I wanted to be Annette Funicello with The Beach

(15:40):
Boys because she was the coolest, prettiest girl that I
ever saw on television when I was growing up.
I mean, I am a complete Disney nerd.
It's but old school Disney nerd.I've been putting like
exclamation points and smiley faces during some of my prep
because I just start geeking out.
Like finally finding out like Jenny Tyler was the voice of the
chipmunks that I quote, I've been quoting for 20 plus years,

(16:03):
things like that. I'm just like, I love these.
As a kid you learn comedy is Disney.
Hanna Barbera, too. I started as a Warner Brothers.
Well, I grew up outside of New York City, so New York
television was what I was exposed to as a kid there in
North Jersey. There was a lot of everything on
television. Old Crusader Rabbit and the

(16:27):
Fleischer cartoons out of the Inkwell.
Those ran very early in the morning on Saturdays.
And then of course, Warner Brothers and then Hanna Barbera
came along and all of these, youknow, again, early programming,
I'm very warped, But the people that worked on these things at
that time, absolutely fundamental to my career in what

(16:49):
I do. Dos Butler, Stan Freeburg and
some of the side characters likeArnold Stang and Marvin Kaplan.
And you know who was the guy? Alan Melvin.
What an unsung hero. Yeah.
Oh my goodness. Who Co starred on Bilco with
Phil Silvers, Bill Dana, My goodness.
But Stan Freeburg, Oh, you know,and I know that he doesn't and

(17:10):
prominently figure into the world of Hanna Barbera, but Stan
Freeberg, I got turned on to himand of course, he and Dos Butler
were such great buddies in Los Angeles on television, Beanie
and Cecil and and all of that stuff.
And Stan Freeberg's remarkable career in advertising and
whatever. The first thing I heard from him
was Stan Freeberg presents the United States of America, that

(17:31):
famous album that so, so many people have.
Buddy of mine had it. We I was over at his house and
he puts this on. It's like, what is this?
We must now listen to this entire thing.
And so years later, he wrote a biography.
It only hurts when I laugh. And I got a hold of this and a
buddy of mine out in Los Angeles.
I being in the film business, I do post production in a variety

(17:53):
of places. He occasionally worked with Stan
Freeberg when he was still alive.
And he said, oh, yeah, I see Stan and blah, blah, blah.
So I sent him the book with a fanboy letter.
I just like Stan. I just want you to know that you
have influenced my career and I,I owe it all to you.
And so a couple of weeks later, he sent the book back to me,

(18:13):
signed, you know, with a really nice inscription to me and that,
and it was very personal. So I didn't get to meet him, but
having that point of contact wasjust so special.
Yeah. And Kelly, you mentioned Hayley
Mills. I listen to her audio book,
Hayley Mills read her own life. And when you have especially
somebody who is a performer reading their life, you know,

(18:37):
and Hayley Mills comes off just the way you wished she would,
funny, self effacing, unpretentious.
And now I just love watching these classic British films
because, you know, Dickie Attenborough was close to her
and Brian Forbes. They were all buddies and they'd

(18:58):
all come over and trade off who is in each other's films or
stage productions. And it was just normal for and
then she talks about losing her Oscar.
That stuff is wonderful. And as far as Stan Freeburg, he
didn't do Hanna Barbera per SE, but his beanie and Cecil and his
records heavily influenced because so many people in his

(19:21):
records. June for a Daws Butler, Paul
Freeze. There was a who's who that he
brought in, and especially in the early Hanna Barbera cartoons
that were so dependent on dialogue.
They have that feel. And then the records that they
made for about 2 1/2 years that Charles Shows wrote.
Well, Charles Shows wrote Beanieand Cecil and the early cartoons

(19:44):
along with Warren Foster and Mike Maltese.
So the style of those is way over the top.
Nuts, most of them. Some of them are completely
played straight, but some of them are total unabashed spoofs
as if Stan Freeberg did them. So there is a connection there.
I have been geeking out a lot, learning about so many people

(20:05):
that I have read about and studied for like Bill Lee and
Marni Nixon. Like I had an artistic crush on
both of them for the amount of imitations and talent.
And Bill Lee doing Younger than Springtime was always like, yes,
singing to me. Captain Von Trapp, great.
But no, it was Lieutenant Cable all the way for me so.

(20:28):
That's so cool to hear about Marnie Nixon from that
perspective. The first time I heard her name.
Saw her name was on a Mary Poppins record that was not the
original. Cast Soundtrack.
Second cast. Second Cast.
With Jill Lee, thank you. Very much OK.
I saw it in a supermarket in Florida.

(20:49):
I think I was with my grandparents and I noted it and
I came home with that record andmy my mom was very angry.
Did you ask them for that record?
No, I didn't. But then I'm so OCD about some
things that I actually was disappointed when I played the
record because it was not the original cast.

(21:11):
Well, I knew that. I mean, I was a kid, but yet
somehow the rigid connection to original casts has always been
like a thing. And so in reading Greg's book, I
was astounded at the slippery slide of, well, you know, so and
so is doing the voice this week and next week at so and so.

(21:31):
And it's like, yeah, that's a different Fred than it's, you
know, as a kid, those drove me crazy.
I thought what happened. That was before I understood,
you know, intellectual property rights or anything like that.
But why is so and so doing this voice you couldn't afford?
The real Mel Blanc wouldn't comein and do that for you.
Alan wouldn't come. You know, where's George
O'hanlon when we need him? Those things amazed me.

(21:53):
So Greg, your elucidation of howall of that happened in the book
was just fascinating to me. Yeah, a lot of people who grew
up with the second cast or the the cover versions, especially
kids, were taken aback when it didn't sound like them.
And sometimes you never got overit.

(22:13):
And sometimes it was like, you know what?
It's not Mr. Jinx played by DawsButler, It's Paul Freeze.
But he does a such a good Mr. Jinx on his own.
It's such a different character that it's kind of nice, but the
books explain why the circumstances that happened.
And one of the impacts of Hanna Barbera was that because their

(22:35):
shows were on television and Disney films were, like we say,
dear relatives and friends. Not those ones that we did
imitations of that we talked about earlier, but the ones that
we really adored that would comeand visit every so often for
holidays and special occasions. So it was so exciting when they
came where Hanna Barbera were your best friends, your

(22:55):
neighbors, your colleagues. And there was a closeness to
those characters because they were on TV in your house a lot.
And so even Hanna Barbera, I don't think realized how close
we became to who was doing the voices because Mickey had
several voices. Popeye had several voices in
those days. Yeah, it was a budgetary thing.

(23:15):
There was all kinds of reasons. And you can get that all out of
the book. But I think it's really cool
that because your voice people, I love that you picked up on
that because somebody like Billy, especially, he isn't as
well known as Marty Nixon. She was so renowned.
Well. She is now not at the time.
But no, not at the time, becauseshe would have gotten.
You'll never work in this town again, if you will.

(23:37):
I remember Christopher Plummer'sstory about making The Sound of
Music and how he was very offended that he was going to
have a voice double. And so he worked his tushy off
to get up to par for the part. And he went in and he listened
to his music and he listened to his recording.
He listened to Julie Andrews recording.
And he went, you know, next to anybody else, I would have been

(23:59):
fine, but not with Julie. And he was a smart enough actor
to realize he goes, I do not hold up in this movie next to
Julie Andrews. And it's interesting because I
think recently I just saw a video where his original voice
for Edelweiss showed up. Like, they actually had his
recording of it. And a lot of people are going,
oh, it's so much more real and grounded.

(24:20):
And I'm going, no, it's not good.
You put that into Julie Andrews.He made the right call, dude.
No, I mean did not call. So didn't Russell Crowe take a
lot of heat for his singing ability in Les Mis, the film
version? Yeah, it's.
A. There are memes of I am Javert,

(24:41):
yeah. Now flash forward from the 60s
to our time and films like the Dylan picture with Timothy
Chalamet doing his Bob Dylan andAustin Butler doing his Elvis
and all of these things, our levels of expectations I think
have just really grown. You know, Bill Lee sang for Yogi

(25:02):
Bear to The person I Revere above all in this situation was
Deborah Carr, who made Marni Nixon her acting partner, which
I think performers should be doing, saying, you know, very
proudly, I'm working with the best in the business.
They are my voice and you know the.
First one who insisted, yeah, I mean, Marni Nixon.

(25:24):
No one would know who she is if it wasn't for Deborah Carr.
That's right. That's right.
So we went on a different album,but we're back.
I just think this is a cool thing.
When you are given a book and you know you've read it and all
of that, do you get APDF? Do you tear open a book and make
pages out of it? Do you print it out and write

(25:45):
all over? What's the whole process?
We use, I don't know about you Stephen, but I mean we all have
a variation of a program. We get a digital PDF for most
parts and we make notations on that because you can insert
sound. I insert pronunciations on it if
it's for my eyeballs sanity. If there's a quote, I will

(26:07):
highlight that quote. For nonfiction, you're not
putting an actual character on, but I do suddenly drop my voice
a little bit just to kind of getthe reader into the quote a
little bit more or raise it up alittle bit.
So I'm kind of the medium in between, and then you can make
markings and whatever else you need.
Everyone's prep process is a little bit different, but it's

(26:27):
all ultimately for the same purposes.
There are a variety of ways to get there.
It's true. I get a PDF as well, of course.
And for me that goes on an iPad that I have at a certain
distance so that I can see it easily and turn the pages easily
or, you know, shuttle the pages.I like that on a different

(26:47):
screen than my audio workstationso that my hands can do two
different things at once and nothave to be mousing and clicking
and all the rest of that stuff. That's my secret sauce, is
having the script on an iPad suspended in front of me and
then the rest of everything else.
I'm always about removing barriers.
I guess I'll probably take some hits for this.

(27:08):
I don't have a lot of notes thatI take into stuff.
If I do, I actually use rememberthese.
This is a yellow pad. What's that?
I know see it was unearthed by an archaeologist near my house.
And so it's like, yes. And I use a pen or a pencil.
I know, I know it's terribly Byzantine of me, but I do that

(27:30):
again so that I don't have clutter in front of me.
It's just how I like to do it onmy main screen, I'll have
pronunciations. I have a research partner that I
typically use for stuff who goesahead of me on and preps things
and what have you. So we just get there slightly
different ways. It all depends on how you like
to work and how comfortable you are in the environment that

(27:51):
you've created in your studio. Do you go for long passages or
do you like to try different ways of short passages or to get
on a roll and say, oh, I'm goingto keep going or how does that
go? I'm always on a roll because the
deadlines are very serious in our business and they haven't
really gotten any longer over the years.

(28:11):
So there is that. But no, I'm sure Kelly has a
take on this, that you decide how much you want to do and how
far you want to go and then say,I'm not feeling as fresh as I
was, you know, 45 minutes ago. So I have to force myself to not
power through, turn off the Teutonic work effort and say,

(28:33):
OK, I'm going to stop and I'm going to walk around the block
or I'm going to go get a sandwich or I'm going to pat the
dog or whatever it happens to be.
And then come back and go, oh, Iwill discover this afresh.
And there's certain times of theday, I think that different
narrators feel like they function best and better.
There's some optimal times, you know, for me early in the
morning, if I can get up that early in the morning, get a

(28:56):
shower because that opens up therest of my head and all of that
stuff. You get the moisture going from
inside and out as far as that goes.
And then I'm doing my best work for a lot of hours, you know, up
through lunch. And then I really kind of need a
couple hours off in the afternoon for my voice to settle
and come back to where it was sothat I have, you know, the full

(29:18):
range available, my limited miniupper baritone kind of range
just so I kind of want to optimize that.
Yeah, I'm a morning person too. I do know people that won't get
into the booth until 10 or 11 but that point my days have done
for me. I drop the kids off at school
and or if my husband can do it then I get to start earlier.
Then I'm sure you do it as well.I do about 5 minute quick vocal

(29:41):
exercise to make sure that I've got my whole range and I don't
have morning voice. I do some tongue twisters to
warm up and then I'm in the booth for ideally 4 to 6 hours
on a good day. Sometimes I only get 3 and
depending on the kids schedules because as soon as I pick them
up I'm not going to get that consistent time again.
What you're talking about with the 45 minutes and then your

(30:02):
brain poops out. Steven Christina Rooney, who's a
wonderful director for Penguin Random House, said there is a
study done that the human brain really cannot focus fully past
45 minutes to an hour. And since then, unless I'm
really on a roll and like no I just need this last paragraph, I
will try to time it so every 45 minutes to an hour doing

(30:25):
something physical. Like I'll just put away dishes
for 5 minutes or get some tea orwhatever just so my brain can
regenerate and the brain will stop working and the physical
can help recharge it a little bit.
That's a great idea too, especially if you're staring at
a screen. They say you shouldn't be
staring at a screen too long too, because your eyes get
blurry and all kinds of that. We I asked you before we started

(30:48):
also how you deal with the little smacky sounds.
I've been told different things by different people, but green
apples were. Green apples is what?
Yes, I've heard that more than twice and I tried it once.
Kelly, your experience is good with that.
Yeah, as long as they had enoughjuice in them.
Yeah. If they were a little drier.
Nope. The trick of the little small

(31:09):
water atomizer I got from Pat Fraley, who I studied with for
audiobook performance and commercials and other stuff, and
he actually at his seminars gaveus these.
This is a limited edition. It's about a four inch tall
little tiny atomizer, like a travel one that you get in the
supermarket. And his take on this was that

(31:31):
90% of the noises that happened in our mouths happened between
your cheeks and lips and the teeth.
So it's really just about lubricating the surfaces as
opposed to drinking a ton of water.
And he came from back in the days when an actual book and
you're turning the pages, well, the page is going to make noise
anyway, so there's already goingto be an edit there anyway.

(31:54):
So rather than then take the time and go, well, well, well,
well, you just go and off you go.
Works for me. Room Room temperature or.
Chilled. No, I don't like chilled water
ever. Really.
Yeah, it's all room temp and I'min Colorado now, so things are
pretty dry here. That's interesting.
Thank you for that. You're representing both coasts

(32:18):
of the United States. Can you tell your back story of
your incredible journey to this life you have I.
Mean my life of being in a tiny box and talking to myself in
various voices and getting paid for it?
Absolutely. It's when they start talking
back that it's the. Problem when they start talking
back. Absolutely.
I grew up in the Bay Area in Northern California before it

(32:41):
was the.com craziness, when it was still a relatively quiet,
sleepy little town, and I alwayswanted to act.
That was just a given for me. I was always fascinated with
characters with accents. So I went to college for
theater, shockingly at UCLA, andI studied abroad in England for
a year over at the University ofBirmingham theater department.

(33:05):
But there was part of me that will always love theater.
But I always kind of felt like Ihad one foot in.
And when I graduated and thought, well, naturally I have
to do film, I'm in Lai didn't love that process either.
Like I liked the whole communityof building a film and I love
being on set. I did stand and work for a long
time, but the actual process of acting in that environment was

(33:28):
never my happy place. Consequently, because I think I
liked it, but I didn't love it, I didn't get as far as I could
have. Like, I did some wonderful
Equity shows, I did some small films and whatnot.
But when I was about to go back to England to get my masters in
Shakespeare, which I basically called a vacation with homework,

(33:51):
right before I left, my friend from UCLA, who's now very big in
animation, was casting her firstproduction and wanted to cast
actors that she knew from college.
So she had auditioned for an anime series called I'm going to
Be an Angel. And as Bob Bergen told me, he
goes, this should be the title of your autobiography.
Once you've played a baby rice cooker monster, you never go

(34:13):
back. And let me tell you, I I wound
up with a reoccurring character on that series, but I got to
play all these little parts. I just walked out going.
I got paid for that. Are you kidding me?
That's way too fun. And completely forgot about it
because I went across the pond for a while, came back, went
back to film, didn't even think about it.

(34:33):
But anytime I got an opportunity, I would talk about
the baby rice cooker monster because I loved her.
That was the crowning moment of my life was doing that at that
point artistically. But it wasn't until I finally
was realizing how little joy I was actually doing theater and
film. And it's one of those if you
don't love it, you are putting so much money and time and

(34:54):
effort, you stop. And so I had a nice soul
searching moment and I stopped. But the problem was I still had
all this creative energy in me. And my husband finally turned to
me on a trip and went, the only thing from acting you still talk
about with joy is that anime youdid.
Why don't you just do voiceover?And I went, why don't I just do

(35:16):
voiceover? Are you kidding me right now?
And it was like, all my life, all my career choices, I've been
writing as well. Everything just went, duh.
And I haven't stopped since. I did a voiceover improv class
just to be like, is this what? Yo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is it.
This is it. And for me, because I've been a

(35:38):
book nerd, I'm always a huge reader.
Even though I was not a listenerinitially, audiobooks, now I've
grown to obviously like them because I'm more of a visual
person. I've grown to very much
appreciate them. They seemed like a very natural
segue from one of the different aspects of voiceover, and
they've pretty much been my bread and butter since.
And that's my professional life story.

(36:00):
That is so exciting, I. Mean what's the name of the
thing with the rice cooker? It's called I'm going to be an
Angel. You have to have one of those
photos done where they have the characters on your shoulders and

(36:21):
stuff. I know right?
And people would be like, what the is that a vegetable steamer?
What's going on now? That is wonderful.
I've been very happy since, and I have to say, the audiobook
community is incredible. I'm sure you can vouch for this
as well, Stephen, but they're some of the most humble actors

(36:41):
because we're all nerds and there's no fame, there's no
glamour in audio books unless you're going to a red carpets
award and then you're like, I'm out of the sweats.
I'm out of the sweats. But you know, for us, we're just
so happy to be able to talk to other people and not just
ourselves. It's a wonderful experience.
So I have found some of the smartest, coolest brains that

(37:02):
I've ever. And I've made more friends doing
audiobook narration. I have a whole posse of work
wives. I like to say because it's it's
such an isolating profession that you make as much of A
community of the actual profession as possible.
I don't know when this will run specifically, but you are going
to be going to a glittering award ceremony, correct?

(37:24):
Yes, I'm nominated for an Audi award for best romance.
It's a not a spicy romance. Just in case for our listeners.
There's like 1 mildly spicy scene.
That's it. But it means a lot to me because
it's a it's a Jewish romance andit's really about a woman who
the romance helps her rediscoverher joy in her culture because

(37:49):
she's distanced from her parents.
And that was the part that I really, really enjoyed.
And just rediscovering all the fun parts about.
It's going to give me goosebumps, but I put my heart
into that book and it was so lovely being a Jewish person
doing that book. Having a Jewish director on that
book, because it was Penguin Random House and a Jewish
producer and obviously Jewish writer, it meant a lot.

(38:10):
But I never thought it would be nominated.
I just put it in because I just loved it and I couldn't pass up
the opportunity. So I was floored that it got
nominated. Congratulations on the
nomination. Thank you, but as Steven will
tell you, as he has been nominated before too, you get
this handy little metal. To get the little metal.
You get the metal, and it's a weighted metal too, so you've

(38:32):
already gotten the prize, it's just whether you get another
ones. Oh well, that's nice.
It's just a pat in the back thatsomebody outside of this tiny
little box has heard your work and it's like, hey, nice job,
can't ask for more than that. Plus you get free drinks so it's
all good. OK, so then Steven, your
glorious yellow brick road too audio.

(38:52):
Oh, my goodness. And it is indeed so glorious.
You know, it's funny because ourpaths have absolutely nothing in
common. Yeah.
Which is, you know, just the wayit is.
I. Never heard of you till last
week. Unbelievable where you know,
right, I'm not in the Rolodex. I know it's terrible.
You don't, you know I'm schmoozechallenged.

(39:14):
I respect that. I know a lot of people that are
in this community. I'll go to some of these
meetups, I'll do the Zooming, I'll whatever.
And then, you know, people will talk about their lives and I'll
just like, yeah, that's you suredo have a life.
There's no question. I guess I'll have to rent one.
So I grew up in New Jersey outside of New York City my
whole life. So I don't have the acting blue
blood thing as much. I'm more of a blue collar worker

(39:38):
as far as that goes. I mean went to college and all
that stuff, but my stated thing after becoming infected by these
various audio products as a kid growing up in the 60s, so sorry,
got some years going there was to get into audio production,
photography, radio, television and then film all along the way
really as the behind the scenes guy is the producer.

(40:01):
So I've directed multi camera stuff, single camera stuff,
television documentaries. Tons and tons of commercials.
I was kind of the preeminent tabletop food director for a
long time in Denver for companies like Village Inn,
Baker Square, Marie Callender's,Taco Johns, and other things
like that. So as a commercial director, I

(40:22):
did that primarily and I directed hundreds of thousands
of voice over sessions, did somemyself, but I was never
developing my career in that particular direction.
I was always making the stuff, so the mechanics of it for me
were kind of what it was about. It's always about story, and
story originates from the page and then it's stewarded by

(40:45):
whoever will bring that to the screen.
Big screen, small screen audio, all the rest of that stuff.
So I proceeded that way and thenI've always felt this.
A friend of mine in the audio book industry chides me about
this because I will say, you know, as a filmmaker, I don't
have the depth of acting chops that a lot of people have.

(41:06):
I never trod the boards, as it were.
I was never in a play. I mean, I, I studied acting in
college and did some, you know, small stuff, but I was never a
stage actor and not particularlya screen actor or anything like
that. And he says to me, you know, you
say that, that you're missing that component of your career
and your life and your work. But because you've directed so

(41:29):
much, because you've edited so much, because you've written
things, all the rest of that stuff, he said, you're really
selling yourself short in that. I was not giving myself
permission to say that all of those things counted toward
particularly audiobook performance because it, you
know, you want to talk about long form, good Lord, this is
the longest form going and deriving these characters.

(41:51):
So my approach has been to take all of that primordial Stew of
film and television and audio production and all of those
things to what I do now primarily in the audiobook side
of things to make those characters to, I was going to
say, bring them to life. And to a certain extent, yes.
But boy, that sounds pretentious.
Because as Kelly knows in particular, it's not that we're

(42:15):
exactly creating a three dimensionality of a character.
In many cases, we're really justindicating characters and we're
differentiating them and we're setting them apart.
But you don't want to be in the middle of something and suddenly
you're talking like Eleanor Roosevelt, because that just
takes everybody out of it. So there's this fine line that
we're always finding is how these creatures come alive at

(42:39):
our hands. And had to do that without
sounding like you're an idiot isreally what it I got a bad
review for having misstepped in a nonfiction piece.
In fact, I couldn't help myself.I just applied this slight
accent to a certain historical figure and I got hate mail from
a professor somewhere said, you know, he wasn't from Germany.

(43:01):
He was actually, I'm sorry. I'll never do that again.
I apologize profusely. We've all had the hate mail.
I've had it too. And and you bring up a really
good point, I have to tell you, because if there's a misread in
a book, even though we go through multiple checks and
balances after we've read it, wehave proofers who proof it in

(43:23):
the companies that we work for. It goes through a lot of
process, but we're all human andwe still miss things.
I had a book where I said the wrong word because I've been in
the booth for six hours by myself and I misread the word.
And I got a huge letter from a nice, lovely man who basically

(43:45):
CC Ed me. He found my website address just
to CC me on an e-mail to the publisher saying, is Miss Tigger
really the best person to narrate this book Because she
said this instead of this and can't say this.
I'm like, and what I wanted to say, I deleted it after I calmed
down and at the end of a bad week.
So usually have a very thick skin for that.
But it was one of those like personally, it was a poopy week.

(44:08):
I didn't have the patience at that point for it, but what I
wanted to say back to him. So I'll say to you guys is I'm
really sorry. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.
I'm sorry you didn't hear the hours of listening I did to
research this book. I'm sorry you didn't see the
hours of TV I immersed myself inwith various shows special to
get into this world. I'm sorry you didn't see the

(44:30):
hours of research that I put andI'm sorry that you're going to
focus on these tiny little details to sound like I'm not
qualified. But we're artists and we put
ourselves on the line because we're putting our work out
there. Unfortunately, some of the work
is going to be spit back out at us.
It's just part of the business. And it's one of those you have
to read your reviews if you're going to read them.

(44:52):
On a good day, unfortunately, you can get 600 great reviews
and it's that one stinky bad onethat you're just like, get out
of my head. Why are you have space in there?
It's, and I think it's the same for writers, It's the same for
actors. It's the same.
I mean, we're all in the same boat.
When you put your work out thereand you put your heart out
there, someone's going to squishit.

(45:13):
But then other people will hug it, so it's OK.
What you said was so critical. Ours are the names on it.
It's narrated by you, it's narrated by me, it's narrated by
whoever that is. So we're kind of the target.
We're the last one with it. What is?
Not the last one with it. The proofers are, and they're
human too, and they're going to make oopsies.

(45:33):
So yes, but. Our names are the ones stamped
on it. But in the ears of the audience,
we're the last ones with it. And then of course, we get
corrected and we have to do pickups, you know, so if we have
misspoken and whatever and all that stuff.
And proofers are, they were in the gamut from very talented to
being frustrated English teachers and I'm not sure,
somewhere in between. So what's the strangest thing

(45:54):
you've ever been corrected on where you really had to say?
I don't think I'm going to say it that way.
One time only that I remember pushing back because people in
real life don't ask questions like a question always.
Sometimes it's just implied, especially if it starts with
who, what, where, when, why. And it was something like the

(46:16):
guy said to the girl, do you miss him or something like that?
And I didn't say do you miss him?
I said, do you miss him? And I went, Really.
I had that same proof for once too.
Yeah, I know that exact correction.
Yes, it's. Like, but you know, there are
authors who some of them are going to be a little bit go to
audio and bless your heart. Other ones want their hands in

(46:39):
it more and they're going to want more corrections.
And I have done some writing. I'm not as much as Greg here,
obviously, but I have such respect for writers and their
brains and I want them to be happy. 1st off, because it's
their babies that they're trusting us with.
But but sometimes you're, you'regoing to get some kooky stuff
back. And then there are times when I
get the pickups back from our oopsies and I know it's going to
be a long day because the pickupis, I had to say chapter 5.

(47:02):
I'm like, what did I say? They're like, and it says
Chapter 4. I went, Oh really?
Really. Or whether you say chapter or
not, because plenty of books have chapters where it's just 7.
Seven, yeah, which is fine. Which is fine, but then I've
been dinked because you have to say chapter.
Well, it didn't say chapter, butour Apollo's OK.
I understand this is my sob story about a push back on a

(47:26):
correction. How would you each pronounce
ANGST? Angst.
Yes, and I would be with you on that.
And I got the correction back. And it's like, it's not angst.
It's angst, OK? It's not angst, It's angst.
For many years I've had angst about that.

(47:46):
It takes so much of what you have in you to do these things,
particularly if you have something with a bunch of
characters. I've narrated a series of books
that have like 20-30 characters and it's like, OK, so let's
buckle up for this. You have to have your heart
there. At the same time, you have to
have this technical aspect goingon where it's like, I have to

(48:07):
indicate this. I have to be sure I'm saying
good. Like this is Oh my goodness.
And then you have to act on top of that.
And you have to act on top of that.
My engineer who directs me as well a lot of times in the
booth, so lonely and helps me with my sanity.
We were laughing so hard yesterday because I was clearly
hitting the wall because in yourbook I got to Mickey and I

(48:30):
couldn't say C, and that's when we knew I had to go on break.
I actually started a blooper reel for your book because we've
had some good ones. I need to hear that.
Yeah, there's some good ones. Good job.
I had such a struggle in your book as well, because I wanted
desperately to do these character voices in these.
You know, it's like, no, I don'twant to do a bad impression of

(48:53):
George O'hanlon. It's not good and it's not.
I'm not going to do that. But it was like, this is so
exciting to be working with these characters that I love.
Yeah, that's the problem. You want to geek out and you
want to play because it's a book.
So exciting and the books are sofun.
You're just like, I want to do this, but Oh no, I can't do that
voice. It's not.
I can't say, but I rub you roarge.

(49:13):
But in both cases, the press asks us to put together.
And Tim and I worked on the listfor Mouse tracks, and I did the
one for Hanna Barbera. And you start out thinking,
well, how many words could be gotten wronged or something?
And anything that can possibly be, you want to make sure it's
Carter. It's not Carter, you know.
You just never know. Because that's what takes people

(49:35):
out of the story. I was calling doctors offices
today on a book. It's like this will be the
strangest phone call you get today.
But how do you say the name? And they range from, oh, that's
so fascinating, what you do to thank you.
Goodbye. I have to tell you, Steven, when
I got the audio version and did,the CD is still being
manufactured, but you can get the audio version downloaded

(49:57):
immediately. I wanted to hear how you said
the beautiful Calliope A saxophaya tromba ramba Clara
bassa trombophone and we went tothat and also the episode
Cinderella Flintstone where Fredgoes to a party and he says his
name is Mr. Yes, yes. And I could never say those
things a second time, Greg, so please don't ask me.

(50:21):
I got off easy with Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.
Oh my goodness. Has we've all been practicing
that for years? Long time.
Yes. I mean time.
Yeah. But the substitutionary
locomotion from that, yeah. But that's bed knobs and
broomsticks, so I'm not entirelyunfamiliar with that one either.
There you go, you see, that's the great thing is that you're
both. It is truly a heavenly gift that

(50:42):
they had given these to people who actually like.
I was born for this book, Gray. This is great.
And in both books, we're tellinga lot of biographies, and we're
telling the stories of a lot of people, like you've mentioned
Marnie Nixon and Billy and TerryOrr, Jenny Tyler, the wonderful
Roby Lester, people who were barely or never celebrated.

(51:05):
Yeah, before we wrote about them.
And it's the same thing with Hanna Barbera.
There are the superstar voice people, but there's also the
editors and the writers and and the length of both stories.
Now, in the case of Mouse tracks, we're dealing with a
division within a history. You know, we talked about the
pre record division, but 56 to about 88 or so because that's

(51:27):
when they were making vinyl records.
And that's the story of the record company and Hanna
Barbera's case. It's the entire company history.
It didn't start out that way, but I just found that nobody was
telling it in a complete book. You know, it's almost 100 years
of history and it turned into much more than the record
company, which was 2 1/2 years. And in both cases, there was

(51:49):
revelations for me as well. I mean, you always go in
thinking, oh, I know this and I know this.
The hardest part is stopping because you keep learning new
things and going back and revising.
What was the most interesting thing you learned from mouse
tracks? There were so many things.
Well, one of the people who emerged from our research was
one of the ghost singers. Some actors and performers got

(52:12):
their names on labels and some did not.
I don't know why, maybe it was unions or whatever, but Gene
Merlino, I didn't really know who he was.
And I thought I knew all about these people and I I didn't.
Know him either? No.
On him I was like who? Who?
Yeah, yeah. Bill Lee usually got the jobs,
and he would go in and say, oh, Bill Lee's here, I'm never going

(52:33):
to get it. But he has an extraordinary
voice, and they don't sound alike at all, really.
And now that I know who he is and what he looks like, I'm
watching the Sonny and Cher showon DVD and it's like, there's
Jim Marlino back there. And his biggest claim?
The fame was singing for Franco Nero as Lancelot and Camelot.

(52:55):
But they also do fill in notes when Don Franks is singing the
great Come and Get It Day in Finian's Rainbow, when he comes
to this going to get your freedom and pie, and he hits a
real high note. Is that him?
And he says, no, it's me. It's just like in The Bells of
Notre Dame. It's actually Alan Menken

(53:17):
singing the very, very last few notes because the guy who was
doing the voice could not hit it.
That's one of the things that isn't known.
People like Gloria Wood and yeah, they didn't necessarily
dub everything, but they went inand spot dubbed for, you know.
Like Darlene Carr did Friedrich,his one high note on Sound of
Music on So Long. Yeah, yeah.

(53:39):
Sure, Yeah, that kind of thing. And the Jimmy Joyce Singers also
filled in the singing for the von Trapps as well.
And the Jimmy Joy Singers are another group to both of adults
and of children. They were in absolutely
everything. So that kind of stuff makes me
really, really thrilled. And then in the case of Hannah
Marburg, it was the same thing. I think probably the biggest
revelation there was talking to Tony Milch, who was one of their

(54:02):
great editors. It was almost an editor's medium
there because they got all the elements and put the shows and
everything together and the records were done the same way.
And he told me how the Jetson sound effects, some of them were
done. And he said I was the one who
came up with George Jetson's car.
And I'm going to tell you it wasa big deal to find out how

(54:22):
simple they didn't have. They had, you know, reel to
reels and quarter inch and 35 mag.
And that's what they edited them.
Now, when I watch the cartoons especially, I know what these
people did so much that I reallyappreciate how they edited all
of the effects and music into almost a suite of cues, every
cartoon, and how beautifully they were written to do that and

(54:45):
how these people work. It's all an incredible,
incredible thing. You know, talking about some of
these actors that have been in this then and the other thing, I
just want to single her out. June Foray, I mean, all of our
lives are touched by her in so many ways.
It wasn't just in cartoons at the time.

(55:06):
One of the later things that I know that she dubbed was in
Jaws, one of Chief Brody's boys,young boys, has a scene and
said, you know what happened with the what?
I don't know what the line was, but it's like June 4A just
dubbed that kids voice, Tim Matheson.
Good heavens, Johnny Quest, young teenager, he's working

(55:26):
hard and people like him and andall the careers that were
launched and helped people feed their families.
It's like and the music. Oh my goodness.
Well, anyway, I could go on as well.
But just the way you noted in the book about the musical score
and top cat, for instance, that Hoyt curtain, he Gershwinized it
a little bit. It had that sense of old Gotham

(55:48):
and what have you. It's just like, you know, these
were such talented people that drew from so many sources to put
this richness into things and and Hanna Barbera, like the
first independent studio to publish its sound effects on
record and then CD and whatever.You could buy the Hanna Barbera
sound effects and use it in yourstuff.

(56:11):
It's so iconic. It was like.
Yeah, Fred's Bongofeet. I don't think except for Ben
Burt's Star Wars sound effects, that there's any more iconic
sound effects library, you know,a Flintstone doorknob, even
though the car door sounds and Kelly in the case of Disney and
the books do kind of go together, especially writing the

(56:31):
last one. My wife, who she's so much a
part of this book happening, shewas copy editing and she said
you got an awful lot of Disney in here.
And I said, well, it just sort of happened.
I was finding comparisons of theparallels of the two companies
and how they progressed and their innovations and there
really are parallels and I neverreally thought about it.

(56:54):
I didn't realize it was the Disney music people.
I mean, it affected us because they invented the first sound
booth, essentially. That was largely Tutti
Cammarata, who is the hero. Above all in this book is Tutti
Cammarata was the Walt of the record company.
The Roy was Jimmie Johnson. He was a brilliant marketer as
well, and a good writer too, because he wrote a lot of the

(57:16):
storytellers. Tutti could do any kind of
music, the Annette Rock'n'roll stuff, and then he would turn
around and do a Symphony and then he would turn around and do
jazz or. Mid song as you were saying too.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. He invented that, too.
That was really cool. The turn in the tempo that was
done with the Jimmy Dorsey Orchestra.

(57:36):
That was his creation, too. He was not somebody who ran
around flapping his arm saying look at me.
He cared about what he did. And I could never find.
Not that I sought it out, but never find a negative thing that
anybody had to say about them. They loved him and he made
several careers. And I will add that when we were

(57:57):
circulating the manuscript to the Disney various entities to
get approvals through the archives to make sure it was
accurate and through legal and legal people were great.
We worked fine with them. The more people in the company
saw it, the more they were also learning about a lot of these
forgotten people because after 75, there weren't a lot of

(58:20):
discussion of them went because the record company transitioned
and there's always been a list of potential Disney legends, and
I'm sure these people were on that list.
But because the manuscript circulated 2D camarada, Jenny
Tyler and Jimmy Johnson were more recognized.

(58:40):
Those people making the decisionand they all three got the
Disney Legend. I think that's the nicest thing.
That gives me the goosebumps. Yeah, and Tutti was still alive
to get it. And his family came, and Robbie
Lester went and. Robbie Lester.
Is she on the list? She should should be.
She holds the record for more individual Disney recordings

(59:02):
than any other performer. And most everybody's
introduction to audiobooks. Yes, exactly the exactly.
She was the first story reader, and that wasn't real common then
to have a book read to you. It was done on Capitol, a little
bit of Golden and stuff. But Disney put together this
huge line of books with records,and she was for, I'd say 6-7

(59:27):
years. She was the official narrator.
Yeah. So you're following in wonderful
footsteps. I was feeling very meta because
when I was going to the Mary Martin part when she was
recording, because Jimmy Johnsonwas talking about watching Mary
Martin perform in the booth to her imaginary crowd and whatnot.
And as I'm performing in the booth too, I was like, this is

(59:50):
art imitating life right now. This is very crazy so.
And those are all recordings, especially the Mary Martin one,
the Louis Armstrong one. Those are landmark, landmark
recordings of great performers. I'm very thrilled that it's put
on audio and I am so grateful that the press has decided to do

(01:00:10):
this. The story will get out to people
who enjoy it in audio form. Yeah, I've got people in line
already. Disney geeks.
Too, Like I say to a lot of people, you'll never know how
many people in their lives your work touches.
Thank you for saying that. Well, your book certainly
touched my life and in somethingso detailed that you went

(01:00:32):
through. I mean, I can only imagine the
joy slash excruciating pain of going through and assembling all
of that material and still having this sense of
playfulness. You had a, you know, a complete
attention to detail, but you also had the sense that to me
came through the book about, youknow, yes, this was imperfect
and this went that way and whatever and so on.

(01:00:54):
But, you know, let's just love all these things in general for
what they are because of the extraordinary contribution to
culture and our growing up and the joy that it brought to so
many people. I wish you many, many, many more
years of doing these things and I thank you again.
Oh, same. For doing this and for doing
these books and as Merv used to say, I thank you all for

(01:01:16):
listening once again to our podcast.
Thanks for joining us regularly and for liking and subscribing
and doing all of that podcast stuff that you do so well.
And until next time, when you listen to us again, bye bye.
We hope you enjoyed the fantastic world of Hannah and
Barbera with Greg Airborne. Please join us again and Many

(01:01:38):
thanks for listening.