June 10, 2025 • 50 mins
How can the church learn from the newsroom? In this episode, Loren welcomes veteran journalist and media executive Suzanne Nadell to explore what faith leaders can gain from the world of communications. Drawing from her decades of experience in newsrooms across the country, Suzanne reflects on her own faith journey as a preacher’s kid, the challenge of navigating polarization, and how churches can better engage their communities by leading with grace, truth, and thoughtful storytelling. Suzanne shares lessons from her book Wired to Lead, discusses the importance of creating inclusive tables in church spaces, and reveals how spiritual practices like Sabbath and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit have shaped her in both professional and personal life. Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about the overlap between faith and media, this episode offers rich insights on leading well in divided times.
Topics Covered:-
Suzanne’s faith story as a preacher’s kid who found her own faith in adulthood
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Lessons from the newsroom that church leaders should embrace
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Why churches must get out of their cultural bubbles
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Communicating hard truths with kindness
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How Sabbath is an act of trust in God
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Building healthier boundaries in a 24/7 world
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Tips for better communication and storytelling in church
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Why Suzanne finds inspiration in Priscilla and other overlooked women in scripture
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Her hope for a less politically divided and more community-rooted church
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Her book: Wired to Lead
🌐 Suzanne's Website: https://suzannenadell.com/
🌐 She Leads Church: https://www.sheleadschurch.com/
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Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Loren Richmond (00:07):
Welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. Your
source for insights and ideas on how to lead your church in
the 21st century. At the Future Christian
Podcast, we talk to pastors, authors
and other faith leaders for helpful advice and practical
wisdom to help you and your community of faith
walk boldly into the future. Whether
(00:27):
you're a pastor, church leader, or a passionate member
of your faith community, this podcast is
designed to challenge, inspire and equip
you with the tools you need for impactful ministry.
And now for a little bit about the guest for this episode.
>> Martha Tatarnic (00:44):
Welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. Today,
Loren Richmond Jr. Is in conversation with
Suzanne Nadell. Suzanne
is an award winning journalist with 30 years
of experience working in local TV
newsrooms across the country. Her career
includes leadership roles at, ah, some of the nation's
top stations, including
(01:06):
WSB TV in Atlanta, the
number one local news station in America.
Suzanne's work has earned numerous
accolades including Emmy, Edward R.
Murrow and Associated Press awards.
Passionate about mentoring women and using her
talents to serve others, Suzanne is
(01:26):
dedicated to making a difference both inside and
outside the newsroom. She and her husband
Michael, have a teenage son and are active
members of Atlanta Christian Church.
A, uh, reminder, before we start today's conversation,
please take a moment to subscribe to the podcast,
leave a review and share Future Christian
(01:46):
with a friend. Connect with Loren,
Martha and Future Christian on Instagram.
Shoot us an email at, uh, laurensonate, uh,
mediaproject with comments,
questions or ideas for future episodes.
We appreciate your voice in how we faithfully
discern the future of the church.
>> Loren (02:16):
Hello and welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. This is Loren
Richmond Jr. Today I am pleased to be joined by
Suzanne Nadel. Thank you so much for being here.
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:24):
Thank you for having me.
>> Loren (02:26):
Yeah, looking forward to having this conversation. Is there
anything else you'd like, uh, our listeners to know about you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:31):
You know, I introduce myself as a wife, mom and boss.
So I'm someone who juggles the whole faith family
career. Spent the past 19 years in news
management, 30 and news. So I juggle a
lot, just like. Just like many people do.
>> Loren (02:45):
It's funny, I think I bought a little knickknack from my
wife once. It said those three words,
wife, mom, boss.
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:53):
Yeah, three big roles.
>> Loren (02:54):
Yeah, three big roles, for sure.
Share a few words kind of about your faith journey, what that looked like in the
past and what that looks like today.
>> Suzanne Nadell (03:02):
Well, I'm a preacher's kid. Pk. I always
say, like, true preacher's kid. Grew up in a parsonage,
mom played the piano, dad the senior
Pastor at a church. So of course, that is, you know, deep
formation and all of that. Did all the things that preacher's kids
are supposed to do, right? Like, I went to a Christian college.
I was supposed to marry a minister, because isn't that what we're supposed
(03:22):
to do? It didn't happen. Uh, interesting.
I am one of those people that I would say my faith
journey, though my faith did not become my own until I was
an adult. I was the kid at
church camp and Sunday school. I had all the answers.
I did what you were supposed to do. But
I really don't think I was
(03:44):
really owning my own faith and had an
understanding of grace and hope
and love and all of those things until I
was later in my 20s. And then
different things happened in life that made that deeper and deeper.
But I would say that's the big. I fell away for a bit in my early 20s
because I didn't have a faith that was my own. My faith was the
(04:05):
rules that I was thought I was supposed to follow from
everything that I learned as a kid.
>> Loren (04:11):
And, uh, you really talk about that more in the
book. But Cher, maybe just for our
listeners here, what. What kind of helped spark.
Spark that or renewed that for you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (04:23):
Probably a lot of things. I think
a lot of it was just compounding adulthood.
I was a newlywed
in my first really, really stressful
job, and I realized that
there had to be something more. And I knew what that something
more was. I will say there was a moment I
(04:44):
had an aunt who passed away, and at her
funeral, they had like an old school
invitation. And that was like a wake up moment
for me. And I was after her funerals when I
started going back regularly. And
then it was just getting involved more and more. And I would say it
ebbed and flowed until my
cancer journeys, you know, later, of course, that, you know,
(05:07):
deepens your faith, but just life,
you know, My parents did a great job of laying that
groundwork, so I knew there was more
there. It was just really
discovering for myself that I
needed
that faith and that spiritual walk and
everything that goes along with it.
>> Loren (05:29):
If m. I can go off script for just a moment. I feel like your
journey really mirrors so much of what we're seeing
in the broader culture of young adults.
Kind of, I don't want to say losing or letting go
or. I'm not sure what the correct wording is here,
but sort of not making faith their
own for that kind of young adult period.
(05:50):
Your journey really mirrors, I think, what is happening in the broader
culture I'm curious, when you look,
what lessons do you think you'd advise to either
parents or church leaders? Just
real quickly here, to
me, I think there's some inevitability to it and the only
thing that parents or church leaders can offer is just continued presence
(06:12):
and care. Do you think there's anything more?
>> Suzanne Nadell (06:15):
I think also a focus on spiritual
practices, not as a checkoff box.
Yeah, I understood some
spiritual practices, but they were more of a checklist. Like I
was supposed to read the Bible every day because that's what good Christians
do and I was supposed to memorize it. But,
uh, um, we didn't do work on Sundays because
we didn't want, you know, the church board
(06:38):
seeing us doing things. It was more of a
checkoff box and not understanding spiritual
practices to, uh, feed your
soul and have a deeper connection. So I
think the connection behind spiritual
practices and I would say the
relationship, I didn't
understand the relationship
(07:00):
with the Spirit and Jesus
and God, you know, the Trinity and all of those things,
it's focusing on the relationship and less of a
check off the box.
>> Loren (07:12):
It's interesting as you say that because I certainly
many, I think many people myself include who grew
up in a more conservative context, understand that kind of check
off box mentality around spiritual practices.
And there's that transition of finding things you can
own for yourself.
Are, uh, you willing to share anything that's been resonant for you,
resonated with you as a spiritual practice of late, or
(07:35):
has helped, perhaps renewed for you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (07:39):
I think a few things that I've focused on as I've gotten older is a
true understanding of the Sabbath m
and taking a break and how that was created
for me. I would also say I did not
grow up in a culture that talked about
the Spirit, the Holy Spirit very much.
And part of, I think exposure in
(07:59):
newsrooms was being exposed to people
of different faiths and cultural backgrounds.
And there are some cultural backgrounds that are very, where their
chur, you know, traditions are very
tied to the Spirit.
>> Loren (08:12):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (08:12):
Uh, I will say, you know, becoming close to my black
sisters, many of my black sisters, has really like
gotten me in tune with the Spirit and
just even in conversation and how the Holy
Spirit is there all the time. And again, that's
not something we talked about in uh, my culture. Growing up in my
upbringing very much and being
(08:33):
in tune with that, that guide,
that advocate there for us. I would say that
and Sabbath are my true. Like the two that I
really lean into as an adult, that I didn't
even Think of as
a child, teenager, young adult.
>> Loren (08:51):
Well, that's. That's great. Thanks for sharing those. I appreciate that
perspective.
Well, I had. Suzanne. Suzanne, I'm sorry, I'm struggling with your
name for some reason today. Suzanne on the podcast today.
She's the author of the book Wired to Lead. Being
the leader the church didn't think you.
And I'm looking forward to having some conversation
around some themes in your book. But
(09:13):
let's begin the conversation in this
way.
Uh, when I read the book and I think, correct me if
I'm wrong, seems to be structured very much in this way. It's like a heartfelt
letter. And I'm curious, when you sat down to write
it, what were some things that you were carrying, some burdens you were
carrying that you really felt like you had to get out?
>> Suzanne Nadell (09:32):
Why I felt like I needed to write this book,
I will say so badly, you know, I just knew
for years I needed to write this book,
is that I felt alone in the church
world for so much of
my life. And I
wanted women who were like me to know they're not
(09:53):
alone. I wanted young girls and girls in college
to know they're not alone,
that you are loved the
way God made you to lead
and do all of those things and lean into
those gifts. And that doesn't make you less
of a Christian woman. There's just
(10:13):
so much for the Christian woman
who chooses and feels led to
stay at home and have the kids and
have that traditional. There's just so much.
And I've just never felt like there was much for me. And I'm like,
I know there are more women like me. So I'm like, well,
maybe I'm one of the people that has
(10:34):
to get out there and let folks know
you're not alone. And I want other folks to know they're
not alone.
>> Loren (10:41):
Yeah, great, great. I think that really comes
through throughout the book. So
something that certainly speaks to your context.
And again, you as a, uh. What. I'm not sure
the term you use for yourself. So ministers in the
marketplace, we might say, broadly speaking, working
in a news. In the news field, news media.
(11:02):
I think the thing that stood out to me the most was.
And the thing that I'm more really interested to talk about is,
like, your experience in news media and how.
I'm curious how that
experience and learnings can be applicable to
churches and church leaders.
So I think I want to start, uh, that
conversation with this, where we talk about, or you talk about in your
(11:23):
book, that the churches have created Bubbles. And I think
we've certainly seen that so much.
Not just in church, of course, but in our whole American
social context right now. So many bubbles, whether on social media,
I mean, that's, I think, primarily where we get it. But
how do you encourage,
I mean, not just in the church, but that's primarily
(11:45):
my focus here. But how do you encourage
churches and others to get out of those bubbles?
Uh, especially when we think about telling hard
truths in this polarized world that we live in,
it's so hard to say anything that's going to be.
You almost have to filter everything through the bubble. Does that make
sense?
>> Suzanne Nadell (12:04):
Right. Well, it starts with looking at
who's at the table.
>> Loren (12:08):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (12:08):
And that's one of the lessons, I call them, the life
lessons that I learned in a newsroom that I wish I learned in church
is who's at your table. And at every
gathering, if everyone looks the same, I
would say if everyone believes the exact
same, we've got some non negotiables that we believe in. But
there are other thoughts to
(12:29):
bring to the table. So it starts with seeing who's at the table. So if I
look at a news editorial meeting and it
is all people who look like me, from the same
socioeconomic background, who think like me, who
even operate the same as me, we're not going to do a
good job of representing our local
community because we're only going to be coming at it from one
(12:49):
viewpoint. If we're the church and
we're supposed to be
reaching everyone,
how are you going to reach people who
aren't like you if you don't understand what their
thoughts and perspectives are? And that
starts with inviting them to the
table. My pastor always says, you know, church is, uh, you
(13:11):
know, church is supposed to be one big table. And
who do you have at your table? Whether that be your
dinner table, your lunch table, your table at.
But it starts with looking at who's at the
table and who is it that you need to bring
to your table.
>> Loren (13:30):
I want to stay in this point because I think it speaks to something
else you write about in the book about encountering
discomfort.
You write that you felt
like in the newsroom.
Newsrooms are more willing to
go through these uncomfortable conversations or topics
(13:50):
or themes. And you write
that, sadly, I felt called to that mission in a
newsroom more than I have inside the
walls of the church because many churches are uncomfortable with this
idea of getting uncomfortable. And I think
that's just sad in general. But do you want to talk more about
that? How You've experienced that.
>> Suzanne Nadell (14:09):
Well, in church, let's be real. It's not a job.
People don't have to show up to it. You know, it's optional.
And I think there's this fear that we're going to scare people off,
right? So we're careful about what we say.
We don't want to have the discord. We're afraid
they're going to go away. At the end
of the day, that's someone's choice, right? But
(14:30):
you don't bring it up or stir something if you don't talk
about it. You know, I write in the book that
I, uh, I was an adult
before. I outright heard
racism bad. This is racism.
Calling m people out on it.
Um, things like loving your neighbor. Who is
(14:52):
your neighbor? Having those true
conversations. It's hard.
I get it. I grew up in a preacher's house. I
understand it's different
than a workplace. But as
followers, to ensure that we are
loving our neighbors, that we are being the hands of
feet in Jesus, there are some real conversations
(15:14):
we need to have in our smaller
groups, in our churches. And I would even go to say is
the pulpit as well.
>> Loren (15:22):
So let's dive. Let's dive in a bit, a
little bit more here. Because again, I'm thinking like
a news station. Like, you're competing for viewers, right?
Like at some point, like, you want people tuning into
your newscast, and you can't control whether
they change a channel or go to another,
uh, another news channel or another
(15:43):
news site, for instance. So there is some kind of,
like, filtering your. Your.
Your storytelling or this. The. What you're
communicating to them similarly, I can imagine. And certainly
you. I imagine you felt this from your father
or in your family growing up. Like, you
don't, uh, there's a preacher's kid. The preacher doesn't want to sleep,
(16:03):
anger all the Karrigans and run them
off. So I'm just curious, like, how have
you, in your leading in the newsroom,
kind of. I'm not sure the right
wording here. Filtered is maybe not the right word.
Structured. Manage your communication
to speak the truth, but in a way that people can hear
it. Uh, and similarly, like, what thoughts do you have about,
(16:26):
again, in a church, from a church leader or pastor perspective,
like, communicating these, uh, important
messages, but in a way that people are going to tune
in. Does that make sense?
>> Suzanne Nadell (16:38):
Uh, part of it's through making the people connection.
I would say a lot of it's through the people connection.
If you're just talking about ideas
and you don't know the people.
And by the way, you're talking about people that folks
don't even expose themselves to.
>> Loren (16:56):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (16:56):
How are they going to connect to it?
So uh, it then again goes back to
who are you exposed to? Are you living in that
bubble? Are you so against it because you
think everyone thinks is you already and it's a no brainer
because you're just in that bubble. I would say it
news. And you could maybe look at this a little bit too. If it's a
(17:16):
controversial story that I know the nation is divided on and I'm
getting like, you know, nasty emails from both sides. I would say as
a journalist, we've done a good job that day.
>> Loren (17:24):
Right, right, right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (17:27):
And sometimes, you know, I have to say that
uh, you know, the facts are the facts,
the they're, the
people are people and
it all comes down to connecting
those stories and people. That's so much of
why I say what I've done is so close
(17:47):
to what my dad did. It's, it's people and their stories
and it's what they're going through and you know, advocating for
them. But yeah, if you're trying to
shift thought space.
>> Loren (17:59):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (18:01):
Without connecting to the people you're talking about,
you're going to have a hard time.
>> Loren (18:07):
That's important. I appreciate that observation. I mean obviously,
obviously we might say right in the church space, like
we're actively counting on the Holy Spirit doing some of the work. Right.
I don't know if you can count on that in the news media space. Right.
But I appreciate that point about
breaking through those bubbles to build connections to the
(18:27):
people that you're encouraging people to care
about.
>> Suzanne Nadell (18:32):
Yeah, yeah. It's
partnering and that could be with partnering with a
church in another community.
It can be what you're doing for your outreach. It
could be how welcoming are you to people coming into
your congregation? It can be. I mention in
the book, you know, organizations, there's Be the Bridge, which is a good
(18:53):
one. I mentioned that in the book. There are similar organizations.
What I love about Be the Bridge is when you first sign up for like their
social media channel, you're not even allowed to say
anything for a certain time. Part of
it is just listening at first to take into
uh, take it all in. And that's a huge part of
everything as well. How well are we
(19:14):
doing at listening to others?
>> Loren (19:17):
Yeah, let me stay on this theme because uh, I think it's where
I'm most interested and I'm hoping it's helpful
to the Listeners, certainly.
Hopefully. I'm not being too disparaging of news media right now,
Suzanne, you can tell me. But it seems like, at least
in some cable news circles, like,
there are news media channels that are very focused on a
(19:39):
certain segment of the
populace that is who they're communicating to.
I won't name names. How does
one stay out of that tendency? Because I can imagine
even in your context that you've worked in, there can be a
temptation, and certainly this is true in church,
to just speak to those who are
(20:00):
on the same side of me. So you're not getting
any.
All the emails you're getting are just from one side saying, hey, we
hate what you're saying, and you're getting a bunch of go
Suzanne or go preacher emails.
Uh, how do you avoid just siloing or
channeling to one particular side or
(20:22):
the other?
>> Suzanne Nadell (20:23):
Well, you're referring to cable, and I can't speak to.
I have not worked for, you know, a cable outlet. I, uh,
would say local news is. Is very
different. And we've got the research to show that people still
trust local news versus cable outlets. I do
think some of that has spilled over. And I think when you talk
about affiliations and everything, too, that confuses
(20:43):
people in their minds. I will say, in local
news, how have we. And I've worked with a company
that's been very good at tracking our trust scores
compared to our network and all of those
things, like, all through, to make sure that we keep our
trust. And, you know, the station ownership
group that I've been a part of, we realize trust is our most
valuable strategic thing that we
(21:05):
have. And how we've kept that is we've
stayed at the core of who we are. And that's
journalists. And that is
both sides. That is facts, that
is people storytelling, that is
voice for the voiceless, all of those things.
So staying true to who we are,
(21:25):
I would say that can go to the church.
Staying true to who we are.
Are we loving God? Are we loving people?
Or are we becoming a congregation?
>> Loren (21:37):
That.
>> Suzanne Nadell (21:37):
That is a place centered around a political view.
And we're more about political
lines than we are going back to the
message at keeping Jesus as the center. If
you're keeping Jesus at the center and his message to love God,
love people, really Take a look. Are
you really loving God? Are you really loving people?
(21:58):
That's at the core of it. So I'd say with both of those
things, it goes to the
center of who we are. Are we.
Are we being true journalists?
Are we being True lovers of God and
lovers of people.
>> Loren (22:16):
It's interesting what you point out about the trust level
being higher for local media. And
I'm kind of curious, A, what that's about or, you
know, if you have any insights on what that's about.
And I think, B, I think it sort of reflects again, of what
I've read what we're seeing on the national level about,
like, distrust or mistrust of
(22:36):
institutions writ large. But like. Oh, I know.
I mean, does it really just boil down to, like, personal relationships, like
you've said already?
>> Suzanne Nadell (22:44):
I think it does, uh, a lot of it with people.
I think local news, there are a few things we are
dependent on for public safety. So we are very
much more. Neighborhood community. You could take to other
church as well. Neighborhood community. Down at
the, at the center, you're on the ground level. You're
who people turn to. You connect to
(23:05):
people. Like, that's something in TV journalism we have
over digital things. There's that connection to people.
You get to know them. I mean, I.
We have to be careful that we don't get the spillover that's
happened in the cables. And I could go to
a lot of thoughts of why the cables ended up where they were and
agendas and different things, which is a
(23:26):
whole thing on its own. But I would say the thing
about local is we are local
journalists, local businesses, local people
in the community with people
covering news that impacts them on a ground
level every, uh, day. And, you know, we even have to
talk about, you know, there's a lot of stuff in the news
(23:46):
today. How much is it that our local audience is really
into that? How is that speaking to the people in our community
today?
>> Loren (23:55):
Yeah, and it gets to something I was going to ask about here.
You write, dear Church, once you know the truth, what are you going to do about
it? Uh, thinking again through your context of, like,
news, you know, when you're, when you give a story
that perhaps is a national story,
and thinking about, like, oh, do I make this? You know, do I need to bring this
(24:17):
down locally? How do you discern? And again, what do you advise
churches similarly? Because, again, I think there can
be this temptation. I'm not in the context where I'm preaching
every week because I don't have to deal with this, but certainly amongst some of my
clergy friends, there's this temptation. Every time something happens
on the national level, it's a big story.
There's this, oh, I got to rewrite my sermon on Saturday
(24:37):
night type thing.
You deal with that. On some level,
on a local level where I don't know what, the five
o' clock newscast, six o' clock, ten o' clock, whatever.
Uh, thinking from my own context, you have some
of those pressures where, like, oh, do we
redo our entire newscast? I mean, I don't know. You can tell me.
(24:58):
But what does that look like?
>> Suzanne Nadell (25:00):
Yeah, today's a perfect example. The Pope died. Right? Okay,
so we're in Atlanta. Not a huge, huge Catholic community. I
would say if I'm in some cities I've been in, no brainer.
Well, how are we going to connect that to the Atlanta community?
If you just want international Pope coverage, you're going to go to the
cables for that. We're not going to out cable. The cable or out
national. The national. So how do we tell the
(25:20):
Atlanta stories to that? Well, Atlanta is a very diverse
community. He was kind of known as like, the
progressive pontiff. What is he
connected to? How did some of the things he
stand for impact what we've got
going on locally in Atlanta?
I would say for someone in the church, before you
go there, what's going on big nationally, how do you
(25:43):
connect that to talking to your congregation
about how they're going to live every day if you're not giving
them a takeaway that is actionable
and real? And how are we doing it? If you're just doing
it to give everyone riled up, you're just getting
everyone riled up and, you know, talking,
what are you doing to take that message
(26:04):
and what's going on to put that in everyday practice
to be the hands and feet of Jesus?
And so the question, again, that we ask in news
is, how are we doing that to connect
to our local community in a different way that connects
to our viewers? And again, I think
you could just take that with a congregation as well. How are you
(26:24):
connecting that specifically? Bring
it home, bring it down, bring it local,
bring it every day. And how do you connect the
dots in that?
>> Loren (26:35):
Yeah, that's helpful because, like, my media
consumption tends to be mostly like sports
radio. Uh, not as much as now. I'm not
driving as much. Uh, but that's something
like one of the afternoon drive shows. Like, they do
that really well all the time, where they'll start with
like this big kind of national
sports, and then they always bring it down, like you said,
(26:56):
to like. And to me, it's such a
easy transition. It makes sense because I get the best of both
worlds as a sports fan. Like, I'm hearing about
the, the big whatever happening in
The XYZ League. But also, like,
it's appropriate to my context as a. As someone who
lives in Denver and follows local teams.
>> Suzanne Nadell (27:17):
Right, yeah. The context, we call it the context, perspective
and relevance. What is the context to what's going on?
What is the perspective and how is it relevant to me?
>> Loren (27:28):
I'm going to keep talking through this because I think it's really interesting, again,
thinking about, like, a pastor.
So there's a big national story breaks, the Pope
dies. Right. Let's just stay in the story because, I mean,
we're obviously timestamping ourselves here,
recording this on the Monday the Pope died.
Um, so the Pope dies, and
we're thinking about, like, let's say Pope dies on a Friday, Saturday
(27:52):
afternoon instead. Like.
And I want to mention something about the Pope in my sermon.
So I've got to figure out some way to, like, mention
the story and then try to find some connection
to what. Something the Pope was about that's relevant to my context
or church. Then is that fair?
>> Suzanne Nadell (28:10):
Correct. Correct. And I think, you know, depending on your stance on the
Pope, could be different with this
Pope in particular, the different, you know,
ways you could go. But, you know, let's say, you know,
that it's, uh, you know, caring
for the orphans and the migrants and,
you know, what drove that and what
(28:31):
are you doing in your community, like, here? One of the things that we did
Newswise today is we've got a huge Latin American association.
So we initially, of course, we went to our Latin American
association, um, to talk about, you
know, their efforts and how, you know, he's. He spoke
to them, you know, how he, you know, not
alienating people,
uh, whichever way you
(28:52):
wanted to go. Yeah. Thinking about how he
connects, how his message connected, how that
message connects to it.
Um, a lot of different ways you could go.
>> Loren (29:02):
Yeah.
How about the other side of this? Because, like, I'm thinking again,
there's so many news stories that happens or so many things
you could put in the news. How do you discern, like,
what. This is an important story, but just not. Like,
I certainly felt the pressure where, like, you have to say any.
Anytime a story breaks, you're like, I've got to put this in the
sermon somehow, or I've got to mention this on Sunday and at some point, like, it just,
(29:23):
like it doesn't fit. So how do you discern that?
>> Suzanne Nadell (29:26):
Not everything does. We talk about the impact and the value.
Like, is it something that really needs to be discussed right now? But
no, not everything makes the cut. Not everything makes the
Cut. And you have to decide. You have to be
strategic. Right. Like if you're jumping on
something every week,
it's can get lost.
(29:48):
So what has value to it?
What ah, has impact? What's
you know, your people, you know, your congregation.
>> Loren (29:58):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (29:59):
You know what's going to resonate with them the most and which things
are rising to the top.
>> Loren (30:04):
Yeah.
So I want to, I want to come back to one more thing from your book. For sure.
So don't miss this. You talk about the
importance of kindness and I'm thinking to
stories you wrote in your book about talking
amongst yourselves in the newsroom about difficult conversations.
I'm thinking about how there's been so many challenging
topics in the last four or five years
(30:27):
that churches and leaders have had to wrestle with.
A pastor or church leader wants to
speak truth.
How have you seen that navigate really well where someone is
speaking truth? Again? Maybe it's even from the
context of the newscast where
your anchors are speaking truth, but they're doing it in a kind way.
>> Suzanne Nadell (30:50):
Again. It's realizing you're talking to a person.
And that's what I think we've forgotten with social media.
>> Loren (30:56):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (30:57):
It's just become okay to forget that
that person is a person. My boss
says and I say to my news managers, let's
assume every day
the action being done in the newsroom or that
conversation comes from a place of good
intentions.
>> Loren (31:15):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (31:17):
And we have to
realize that people.
We're talking to people, we're talking
about people.
And for some reason it spilled into again. We
could have a big broader conversation
but we've forgotten that we're talking to
(31:38):
people about. About people.
There are people I'd write down in my journal.
So and so. If I'm having a hard time with a person, I'll say so
and so is a child of God. Like just
remote remembering. Every person we're talking
about is a child of God. The person you
cannot stand the most right now in the
(31:59):
climate is a child of God.
Remembering we're talking to a child of God. I remember
that. I have to remind myself of that in the
newsroom. It's taking that pause.
>> Loren (32:12):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (32:12):
Before you even talk to that person. What kind of
headspace do I need to be in right now?
But yeah, everybody is a child of God. And we have to
remember that.
>> Loren (32:22):
Let's stay on this trend because I think it's interesting.
You're so, uh, you write in your book about
you're purposely finding some ways
to get boundaries and we should come back to that. If we
have time.
But I want to talk about this because you're talking about trying to stay
centered, stay grounded amongst the
chaos. And I'm thinking like, especially you being so
(32:43):
dialed into what's happening. You write in
your book about peace comes from being reminded there's more
to life than your present circumstances. And there is one,
I'm assuming that one, it's God who is looking out for you.
Talk more if you can. Share about like, again,
whether it's someone like you in news media, whether it can be
a pastor or clergy person or church
(33:05):
leader, there's so much going on in our world right now. And
we're often so dialed in because of social
media or other things that we can easily
find ourselves. I know I can. Being
aflutter from all that's
happening. How do you find that
peace for yourself?
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:23):
You have to force yourself to disconnect. This is where I said
Sabbath earlier is very important. And by the way,
if you think that
your world cannot go on
without you.
>> Loren (33:38):
Hm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:39):
You got a couple things going on.
>> Loren (33:41):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:42):
First, you're not trusting people and you
don't have the right people around you.
>> Loren (33:47):
M. Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:48):
You're also not trusting God. And I would
go as far to say you're trying to play God.
>> Loren (33:53):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:54):
There's only one person who can control everything. There's
only one person who's perfect.
We don't have to be that plugged in
all the time. And God
created Sabbath for us.
>> Loren (34:08):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (34:09):
We've got to disconnect. That's where we get the perspective.
Because if you're just getting stuff in, in, in, in, in, it's
overload. And everything is going. And how
do you sort out what. What God is really telling
you about that versus what people are telling you
if you don't slow down to sit in it and
think about it. So that comes. It's trust. I say
(34:29):
it's trust. Was my word of the year for a while. And
trust was about trusting the people
around me, trusting myself in
the way God made me to be, and most of all, trusting
God. I believe a lack of Sabbath
at the core of why many people don't Sabbath is it's a
trust of God, a lack of a trust of trust of God that he's going to take care of
(34:50):
you. He's going to take care of everything
around you. It's about trusting God.
>> Loren (34:57):
Got to write that down here. Uh, lack of
Sabbath, lack of. Lack of trust.
So it sounds like boundaries are really important then.
So let's, let's Continue on on that theme,
what have you. I kind of liked what I don't want to
maybe I don't know if I want to say for you, but share if you would, what
you've had to do or what's been helpful for you to like set
(35:18):
some rigid boundaries for yourself. I appreciate
the example of your husband. Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (35:23):
Yeah. I've had to get some good people around
me at work. That's, you know,
something that I've had to do. People I could trust.
I've had to do a lot of self work on it.
I've had to be very clear with the people I work
for and the people who work for me. I talk
about zones in house. I believe there's uh, good
(35:44):
physical boundaries. Like right now I'm doing this from my
office, my home office. This is my book
stuff. This is not my station stuff. This is not my family
stuff. It has a place. I try
really hard, unless I just need a change of scenery
to only do work in the house in certain areas.
>> Loren (36:03):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (36:03):
If I'm not doing work in the living room, that means
that is a family place. And then when I'm with my
son, I'm not distracted
and they see that too. So I love.
It's called work zones. There's a book called the Leader
that um, you want to be and she talks about work
zones. And in a time where more and more people are
(36:24):
working from home, I think that's very important. I write in the book
Covid was like the worst boundary time for me ever.
>> Loren (36:30):
Right, right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (36:31):
I was just working all the time,
everywhere. Complete lack of boundaries.
>> Loren (36:36):
Yeah, I remember especially in the height of COVID
it really felt like we weren't working from home, we were
living from work. You know what I'm saying?
Uh, so that was challenging.
I want to ask before we finish this part
of the conversation because you're obviously someone who's
in communications and I think communications is so
(36:57):
essential for churches and pastors. Do you have
anything? The thing I always joke about,
I want to have a stand up comedian on the show because they're obviously really
well at engaging their audience. Saying a comedian
has to do well about maintaining
engagement with an audience for 30, 45 minutes. Uh,
your episodes, your news episodes aren't necessarily that long,
(37:18):
but do you have any tips for pastors or folks
who are on stage at church for good
communication practices?
>> Suzanne Nadell (37:27):
Storytelling. So look at storytelling as through
people's stories, whatever you can put
around a person helps people, uh,
identify. And then I would just always
say we call it pacing.
Think about what you have and where. And that just
keeps the, the flow going,
breaking things up. Like if you've got long
(37:48):
stretches of anything next to each other, it tends to
slow down. So think of things as
like a film strip and films like they put
different sizes next to each other.
So always thinking about
varying where you put things. And that helps
the pacing of things. It keeps moving it around.
(38:09):
So stories and pace, those are two
things we always talk about. Stories and pace.
>> Loren (38:14):
Can you give me an example from like a newscast, what that might look like?
Is that like you have a short story, then a long story type thing.
>> Suzanne Nadell (38:20):
Yeah. So it's not putting a lot of things the same length
back to back. It's not putting too long
things next to each other. It's like, you know,
doing something, getting people in off the top,
then putting, you know, a little something and then a little something
longer and then like maybe a couple of short things,
then something longer. So it's like spacing out
(38:41):
like where you have. So yeah.
>> Loren (38:43):
Okay. So if I'm a pastor and I'm writing a sermon, then I'm
going to want to have at least a couple
stories in there. Right. About people.
So I guess, um, if I have a long quote or a long
segment, like I want to break that up with a
shorter quick thought.
>> Suzanne Nadell (38:59):
Correct. You don't want to put too long quotes back to get
back.
>> Loren (39:03):
Okay.
>> Suzanne Nadell (39:03):
You don't want to put too long
readings back to back. You m. Want to
break them up with. With something. So
whether it be a quick story or a quick
transition. Um, but break
them up so you don't have length next to length for
a long time. So break things up a bit.
(39:24):
But stories I would always. Wherever you know,
and when I preach, I always try to start with a story. You
figure uh, out where, where that spot is that you can
connect it, uh, with a person and stories. And I would say even. I was even thinking
of your whole service where I was saying you don't want long things.
Like you want to make sure that you're thinking of your service. If you've got long
readings that day, what are you putting around the long
(39:44):
readings?
>> Loren (39:46):
So obviously, I imagine in your local broadcast
commercial breaks, I don't know about. In a service we have
commercial breaks, mind you. But again, thinking about
like teasers and those transitions.
Any thoughts on. I don't know if
you want to build up a teaser maybe for the.
From the worship singing to the
(40:06):
sermon. But what thoughts do you have
whether either within the sermon or the Whole service at
large.
>> Suzanne Nadell (40:12):
Probably not a teaser in any's cast. Even though you
could say if you're a church that has like a
board up in the beginning, you know, with slides,
you can have like kind of a, you know,
what's coming up or something there, uh, to
do that. But I would say, yeah, you don't have commercial
breaks, but where it is, you do your hellos with everyone.
>> Loren (40:32):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (40:33):
Where it is, I would say in your. Keeping in mind
who you're having do what each week.
So if your communion liturgy person is a slower talker
that week, is your open and closer or your,
your reader a faster paced person. Okay.
Uh, you know, thinking of those kinds of things too.
Like, you don't want your two slow talkers on the same
day. Again, this is like
(40:56):
ideal world. It's church world. Sometimes it's whoever you've got to do
with that week. Let's be real.
>> Loren (41:00):
Yeah, right.
Okay, uh, last thing here before we take a break. Any
like, I always like to ask this question to folks who are
in communications. Like any, like, anything, like
pastors or communicators should like, immediately start doing
or stop doing from what you've seen.
Ooh.
>> Suzanne Nadell (41:19):
Immediately stop or start. So just remember, simple.
Okay, Simple. I'd say when it comes to slides
and things, one thought per
slide, just say, simplify things. We, like, tend
to get cluttered. Uh, don't forget,
it takes many times for people to get
a message. I would say
(41:39):
also the young ones don't read
email, folks.
So figure out how to get the messages out there besides email.
The young ones may not see email for a long time. It
took us a long time to get on email at church. We're just really slow at
church. You know, it took us long enough to get on email.
Now everyone's texting or doing something
(41:59):
else. So pay attention to how your folks are getting
your messages.
>> Loren (42:04):
Yeah. Okay. This has been a good conversation. I feel like
I'd ask you more about communications and
stuff, but, uh, I want to respect your
time. The book is again, Wired to Lead, Being the
leader the church didn't think you could be. Let's
take a quick break and we'll come back with some closing questions.
(42:24):
All right, we're back with Suzanne Nadell. Thank you so much for
the conversation. The question, these,
uh, closing questions I always ask folks, and it
feels a bit more somber today. As we talked about,
the Pope has just died. This question is meant to be
more kind of like, you know, what if
you had absolute control over one
(42:46):
sort of entity in a day. So you can. You're welcome to
take it from that side, or if you want to
reflect, share some reflections on the actual Pope.
I want to leave that to you, since we are in this current context.
>> Suzanne Nadell (42:58):
Well, I will just say with current Pope in mind,
uh, it's going to be very interesting where
the Catholic Church goes next for their next Pope.
>> Loren (43:07):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (43:08):
But I would just say he
did a lot of things of, uh, moving forward,
and it's been awesome to see
them moving forward and the conversations that
some circles hadn't had before. It really goes to a lot of what
we've been talking about, and he was a champion
of those things, and I think that's something that I hope people talk
(43:30):
about a lot, and I hope people keep in mind.
He really was a champion of moving thought
and conversations and inclusivity and
loving God and loving people, uh, forward.
And I think that's just something
really to be celebrated.
Uh, I thought he was a good messenger
(43:52):
for that in a time when we needed it.
>> Loren (43:54):
Yeah. And I felt like he really kind of got, like, the. The
cultural context. I, uh, was just reading an
article this morning, and I talked about, like, he didn't do
a big show wherever he went, so to speak. Like, he
was much more personable and,
you know, less what they say.
Like, he didn't do, like, the huge entourage, so to speak.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:14):
Yeah.
>> Loren (44:15):
I really think, like, he got that. He understood that,
uh, the importance of that, like, relatability, like we've been talking
about.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:21):
I think he really understood who he was talking to and who he needed
to reach.
>> Loren (44:25):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:26):
And some people have used that in not
good ways. Yeah, he used that in a really good
way.
>> Loren (44:32):
Oh, that's a good point. Um,
good point.
Let's do this. A theologian, a historical Christian figure you'd want
to meet then or bring back to life.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:42):
Priscilla. I am such a huge
Priscilla Aquila story person. I've
even thought about, um, giving away an idea,
like, writing, like, uh, historical fiction on
Priscilla. Like, I'm fascinated by
Priscilla and Aquila. Like, she's
mentioned before him, like, half the time or nearly
half the times in the Bible. What is it she was really
(45:04):
up to? What was really, you know, behind all of their money and
power? Like, I just. I. I, uh, want to meet
Priscilla. I want to hang with Priscilla. I think she's my
people.
>> Loren (45:14):
I just read about. Can't remember the book. I just
read about making the point that
Priscilla being mentioned first in those contexts, like, is
a big deal. I'm trying to remember where I read that.
>> Suzanne Nadell (45:26):
Yeah, it's. I've read it in a few places and they're
like, that is not to be lost. And the fact that they
intentionally mentioned her verse which showed that she was
looked at on equal footing as a teacher and head of
household. Uh, but Priscilla,
Lydia, Phoebe, any of those. Prafilla first
I've done a talk on. I view those three as like power women
(45:47):
in the New Testament that we didn't talk about much
growing up. And they've got some fascinating
stories.
>> Loren (45:53):
Okay, this is a good question for you.
What do you think history will remember from our current time and place?
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:00):
I think it's important for us to remember this as a blip.
>> Loren (46:03):
Hmm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:06):
It's all of this like if you look at history books and what
happens in time.
>> Loren (46:11):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:12):
I'm not saying things right now are like all good or
whatever, but.
>> Loren (46:15):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:16):
We've been in bad times before and this
is really like part of a larger thing.
>> Loren (46:21):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:22):
Not just like a decade. It's not like they're like, you know, on,
you know, it's gonna be a full chapter on it. There's gonna be a full chapter
on World War II through now.
>> Loren (46:31):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:31):
Like this is all a
little part of big history.
And I think we've got to remember, looking back, they're going to
look at now in the context of what has happened in
the 50 years before us and the 50 years after us.
>> Loren (46:48):
It's helpful to have that perspective.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:50):
I think too, with that too. I think we have to look
at also what's come up and what's led to this point.
And I think in history what we look at, looking at what led
up to this point.
>> Loren (47:00):
Sure.
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:01):
As much as at this point and we want to
get and uh, talk about at this point right now
and not talk about what got us to this point.
And there are some things we've got to alter about what got us
to this point. And that was decades in the making.
>> Loren (47:15):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Okay, this, this last question I feel like, feels appropriate because you spend
so much your, your books, you know. Dear church, Dear
church, dear church. What are your hopes for
the. Dear church, what are your hopes for the future of Christianity?
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:33):
That we become
less
politically
divided.
>> Loren (47:43):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:45):
It's an interesting time.
And my hope is that we become
kind of like. I look at us in like, you know, smaller
areas where the church is just needed and it's that
center of your community, it's your
neighborhood church, it's that small town Church.
It's, it's that center,
(48:07):
both spiritually, physically and everything
that ties us together. And I think
we've got to revert to some of that, uh, thinking.
>> Loren (48:18):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. Uh, it does
seem like, broadly speaking, like the whole
megachurch model is slipping
away or declining in some ways and even mega
churches are going to a satellite
campus type model to try to be more invested
in their local neighborhoods rather than just like
(48:38):
a 30 minute commuter,
transitory type church.
>> Suzanne Nadell (48:43):
We need community, we need people.
All of these things that I've talked about, connecting with
people and community and stories. You
only get that from actually living in community with
people. Yeah, and I think that's a lesson for the
church too.
>> Loren (48:59):
Well, share where people can connect with you. Get the
book, all that stuff.
>> Suzanne Nadell (49:04):
So wired to lead. You can get it where most books are
sold. Amazon, Chalice Press, who is my,
uh, publisher, their website.
So please check it out there and then
you can follow me on Instagram as my main social media
source. At suzannedell, I'm there
nearly every day. I share these things called back deck
chats. Um, my blog,
(49:25):
suzannadel.com is where you can
check that out. I also have courses and then I'm also
involved in, as I kind of transition out of news later
this year, an organization called she Leads Church, which
is@she leads church.com and that is
about embracing female Christian leaders both in the
church space and in the marketplace space.
>> Loren (49:46):
That's awesome. Cool. I didn't realize that was a thing you're working
on. I'm, uh, going to follow that and look forward to
hearing more and seeing more about that.
Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate the conversation.
We always leave folks with a word of peace, so may God's peace
be with you.
>> Loren Richmond (50:08):
Thanks for joining us on the Future Christian Podcast. The
Future Christian Podcast is produced by Resonate Media.
We love to hear from our listeners with questions, comments
and ideas for future episodes. Visit
our website@uh, future-christian.com
and find the Connect with Us form at the bottom of
the page to get in touch with Martha or Loren.
(50:28):
But before you go, do us a favor, subscribe to
the podcast pod to leave a review. It really helps us get
this out to more people. Thanks and go in
peace.
Welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. Your
source for insights and ideas on how to lead your church in
the 21st century. At the Future Christian
Podcast, we talk to pastors, authors
and other faith leaders for helpful advice and practical
wisdom to help you and your community of faith
walk boldly into the future. Whether
(00:27):
you're a pastor, church leader, or a passionate member
of your faith community, this podcast is
designed to challenge, inspire and equip
you with the tools you need for impactful ministry.
And now for a little bit about the guest for this episode.
>> Martha Tatarnic (00:44):
Welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. Today,
Loren Richmond Jr. Is in conversation with
Suzanne Nadell. Suzanne
is an award winning journalist with 30 years
of experience working in local TV
newsrooms across the country. Her career
includes leadership roles at, ah, some of the nation's
top stations, including
(01:06):
WSB TV in Atlanta, the
number one local news station in America.
Suzanne's work has earned numerous
accolades including Emmy, Edward R.
Murrow and Associated Press awards.
Passionate about mentoring women and using her
talents to serve others, Suzanne is
(01:26):
dedicated to making a difference both inside and
outside the newsroom. She and her husband
Michael, have a teenage son and are active
members of Atlanta Christian Church.
A, uh, reminder, before we start today's conversation,
please take a moment to subscribe to the podcast,
leave a review and share Future Christian
(01:46):
with a friend. Connect with Loren,
Martha and Future Christian on Instagram.
Shoot us an email at, uh, laurensonate, uh,
mediaproject with comments,
questions or ideas for future episodes.
We appreciate your voice in how we faithfully
discern the future of the church.
>> Loren (02:16):
Hello and welcome to the Future Christian Podcast. This is Loren
Richmond Jr. Today I am pleased to be joined by
Suzanne Nadel. Thank you so much for being here.
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:24):
Thank you for having me.
>> Loren (02:26):
Yeah, looking forward to having this conversation. Is there
anything else you'd like, uh, our listeners to know about you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:31):
You know, I introduce myself as a wife, mom and boss.
So I'm someone who juggles the whole faith family
career. Spent the past 19 years in news
management, 30 and news. So I juggle a
lot, just like. Just like many people do.
>> Loren (02:45):
It's funny, I think I bought a little knickknack from my
wife once. It said those three words,
wife, mom, boss.
>> Suzanne Nadell (02:53):
Yeah, three big roles.
>> Loren (02:54):
Yeah, three big roles, for sure.
Share a few words kind of about your faith journey, what that looked like in the
past and what that looks like today.
>> Suzanne Nadell (03:02):
Well, I'm a preacher's kid. Pk. I always
say, like, true preacher's kid. Grew up in a parsonage,
mom played the piano, dad the senior
Pastor at a church. So of course, that is, you know, deep
formation and all of that. Did all the things that preacher's kids
are supposed to do, right? Like, I went to a Christian college.
I was supposed to marry a minister, because isn't that what we're supposed
(03:22):
to do? It didn't happen. Uh, interesting.
I am one of those people that I would say my faith
journey, though my faith did not become my own until I was
an adult. I was the kid at
church camp and Sunday school. I had all the answers.
I did what you were supposed to do. But
I really don't think I was
(03:44):
really owning my own faith and had an
understanding of grace and hope
and love and all of those things until I
was later in my 20s. And then
different things happened in life that made that deeper and deeper.
But I would say that's the big. I fell away for a bit in my early 20s
because I didn't have a faith that was my own. My faith was the
(04:05):
rules that I was thought I was supposed to follow from
everything that I learned as a kid.
>> Loren (04:11):
And, uh, you really talk about that more in the
book. But Cher, maybe just for our
listeners here, what. What kind of helped spark.
Spark that or renewed that for you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (04:23):
Probably a lot of things. I think
a lot of it was just compounding adulthood.
I was a newlywed
in my first really, really stressful
job, and I realized that
there had to be something more. And I knew what that something
more was. I will say there was a moment I
(04:44):
had an aunt who passed away, and at her
funeral, they had like an old school
invitation. And that was like a wake up moment
for me. And I was after her funerals when I
started going back regularly. And
then it was just getting involved more and more. And I would say it
ebbed and flowed until my
cancer journeys, you know, later, of course, that, you know,
(05:07):
deepens your faith, but just life,
you know, My parents did a great job of laying that
groundwork, so I knew there was more
there. It was just really
discovering for myself that I
needed
that faith and that spiritual walk and
everything that goes along with it.
>> Loren (05:29):
If m. I can go off script for just a moment. I feel like your
journey really mirrors so much of what we're seeing
in the broader culture of young adults.
Kind of, I don't want to say losing or letting go
or. I'm not sure what the correct wording is here,
but sort of not making faith their
own for that kind of young adult period.
(05:50):
Your journey really mirrors, I think, what is happening in the broader
culture I'm curious, when you look,
what lessons do you think you'd advise to either
parents or church leaders? Just
real quickly here, to
me, I think there's some inevitability to it and the only
thing that parents or church leaders can offer is just continued presence
(06:12):
and care. Do you think there's anything more?
>> Suzanne Nadell (06:15):
I think also a focus on spiritual
practices, not as a checkoff box.
Yeah, I understood some
spiritual practices, but they were more of a checklist. Like I
was supposed to read the Bible every day because that's what good Christians
do and I was supposed to memorize it. But,
uh, um, we didn't do work on Sundays because
we didn't want, you know, the church board
(06:38):
seeing us doing things. It was more of a
checkoff box and not understanding spiritual
practices to, uh, feed your
soul and have a deeper connection. So I
think the connection behind spiritual
practices and I would say the
relationship, I didn't
understand the relationship
(07:00):
with the Spirit and Jesus
and God, you know, the Trinity and all of those things,
it's focusing on the relationship and less of a
check off the box.
>> Loren (07:12):
It's interesting as you say that because I certainly
many, I think many people myself include who grew
up in a more conservative context, understand that kind of check
off box mentality around spiritual practices.
And there's that transition of finding things you can
own for yourself.
Are, uh, you willing to share anything that's been resonant for you,
resonated with you as a spiritual practice of late, or
(07:35):
has helped, perhaps renewed for you?
>> Suzanne Nadell (07:39):
I think a few things that I've focused on as I've gotten older is a
true understanding of the Sabbath m
and taking a break and how that was created
for me. I would also say I did not
grow up in a culture that talked about
the Spirit, the Holy Spirit very much.
And part of, I think exposure in
(07:59):
newsrooms was being exposed to people
of different faiths and cultural backgrounds.
And there are some cultural backgrounds that are very, where their
chur, you know, traditions are very
tied to the Spirit.
>> Loren (08:12):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (08:12):
Uh, I will say, you know, becoming close to my black
sisters, many of my black sisters, has really like
gotten me in tune with the Spirit and
just even in conversation and how the Holy
Spirit is there all the time. And again, that's
not something we talked about in uh, my culture. Growing up in my
upbringing very much and being
(08:33):
in tune with that, that guide,
that advocate there for us. I would say that
and Sabbath are my true. Like the two that I
really lean into as an adult, that I didn't
even Think of as
a child, teenager, young adult.
>> Loren (08:51):
Well, that's. That's great. Thanks for sharing those. I appreciate that
perspective.
Well, I had. Suzanne. Suzanne, I'm sorry, I'm struggling with your
name for some reason today. Suzanne on the podcast today.
She's the author of the book Wired to Lead. Being
the leader the church didn't think you.
And I'm looking forward to having some conversation
around some themes in your book. But
(09:13):
let's begin the conversation in this
way.
Uh, when I read the book and I think, correct me if
I'm wrong, seems to be structured very much in this way. It's like a heartfelt
letter. And I'm curious, when you sat down to write
it, what were some things that you were carrying, some burdens you were
carrying that you really felt like you had to get out?
>> Suzanne Nadell (09:32):
Why I felt like I needed to write this book,
I will say so badly, you know, I just knew
for years I needed to write this book,
is that I felt alone in the church
world for so much of
my life. And I
wanted women who were like me to know they're not
(09:53):
alone. I wanted young girls and girls in college
to know they're not alone,
that you are loved the
way God made you to lead
and do all of those things and lean into
those gifts. And that doesn't make you less
of a Christian woman. There's just
(10:13):
so much for the Christian woman
who chooses and feels led to
stay at home and have the kids and
have that traditional. There's just so much.
And I've just never felt like there was much for me. And I'm like,
I know there are more women like me. So I'm like, well,
maybe I'm one of the people that has
(10:34):
to get out there and let folks know
you're not alone. And I want other folks to know they're
not alone.
>> Loren (10:41):
Yeah, great, great. I think that really comes
through throughout the book. So
something that certainly speaks to your context.
And again, you as a, uh. What. I'm not sure
the term you use for yourself. So ministers in the
marketplace, we might say, broadly speaking, working
in a news. In the news field, news media.
(11:02):
I think the thing that stood out to me the most was.
And the thing that I'm more really interested to talk about is,
like, your experience in news media and how.
I'm curious how that
experience and learnings can be applicable to
churches and church leaders.
So I think I want to start, uh, that
conversation with this, where we talk about, or you talk about in your
(11:23):
book, that the churches have created Bubbles. And I think
we've certainly seen that so much.
Not just in church, of course, but in our whole American
social context right now. So many bubbles, whether on social media,
I mean, that's, I think, primarily where we get it. But
how do you encourage,
I mean, not just in the church, but that's primarily
(11:45):
my focus here. But how do you encourage
churches and others to get out of those bubbles?
Uh, especially when we think about telling hard
truths in this polarized world that we live in,
it's so hard to say anything that's going to be.
You almost have to filter everything through the bubble. Does that make
sense?
>> Suzanne Nadell (12:04):
Right. Well, it starts with looking at
who's at the table.
>> Loren (12:08):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (12:08):
And that's one of the lessons, I call them, the life
lessons that I learned in a newsroom that I wish I learned in church
is who's at your table. And at every
gathering, if everyone looks the same, I
would say if everyone believes the exact
same, we've got some non negotiables that we believe in. But
there are other thoughts to
(12:29):
bring to the table. So it starts with seeing who's at the table. So if I
look at a news editorial meeting and it
is all people who look like me, from the same
socioeconomic background, who think like me, who
even operate the same as me, we're not going to do a
good job of representing our local
community because we're only going to be coming at it from one
(12:49):
viewpoint. If we're the church and
we're supposed to be
reaching everyone,
how are you going to reach people who
aren't like you if you don't understand what their
thoughts and perspectives are? And that
starts with inviting them to the
table. My pastor always says, you know, church is, uh, you
(13:11):
know, church is supposed to be one big table. And
who do you have at your table? Whether that be your
dinner table, your lunch table, your table at.
But it starts with looking at who's at the
table and who is it that you need to bring
to your table.
>> Loren (13:30):
I want to stay in this point because I think it speaks to something
else you write about in the book about encountering
discomfort.
You write that you felt
like in the newsroom.
Newsrooms are more willing to
go through these uncomfortable conversations or topics
(13:50):
or themes. And you write
that, sadly, I felt called to that mission in a
newsroom more than I have inside the
walls of the church because many churches are uncomfortable with this
idea of getting uncomfortable. And I think
that's just sad in general. But do you want to talk more about
that? How You've experienced that.
>> Suzanne Nadell (14:09):
Well, in church, let's be real. It's not a job.
People don't have to show up to it. You know, it's optional.
And I think there's this fear that we're going to scare people off,
right? So we're careful about what we say.
We don't want to have the discord. We're afraid
they're going to go away. At the end
of the day, that's someone's choice, right? But
(14:30):
you don't bring it up or stir something if you don't talk
about it. You know, I write in the book that
I, uh, I was an adult
before. I outright heard
racism bad. This is racism.
Calling m people out on it.
Um, things like loving your neighbor. Who is
(14:52):
your neighbor? Having those true
conversations. It's hard.
I get it. I grew up in a preacher's house. I
understand it's different
than a workplace. But as
followers, to ensure that we are
loving our neighbors, that we are being the hands of
feet in Jesus, there are some real conversations
(15:14):
we need to have in our smaller
groups, in our churches. And I would even go to say is
the pulpit as well.
>> Loren (15:22):
So let's dive. Let's dive in a bit, a
little bit more here. Because again, I'm thinking like
a news station. Like, you're competing for viewers, right?
Like at some point, like, you want people tuning into
your newscast, and you can't control whether
they change a channel or go to another,
uh, another news channel or another
(15:43):
news site, for instance. So there is some kind of,
like, filtering your. Your.
Your storytelling or this. The. What you're
communicating to them similarly, I can imagine. And certainly
you. I imagine you felt this from your father
or in your family growing up. Like, you
don't, uh, there's a preacher's kid. The preacher doesn't want to sleep,
(16:03):
anger all the Karrigans and run them
off. So I'm just curious, like, how have
you, in your leading in the newsroom,
kind of. I'm not sure the right
wording here. Filtered is maybe not the right word.
Structured. Manage your communication
to speak the truth, but in a way that people can hear
it. Uh, and similarly, like, what thoughts do you have about,
(16:26):
again, in a church, from a church leader or pastor perspective,
like, communicating these, uh, important
messages, but in a way that people are going to tune
in. Does that make sense?
>> Suzanne Nadell (16:38):
Uh, part of it's through making the people connection.
I would say a lot of it's through the people connection.
If you're just talking about ideas
and you don't know the people.
And by the way, you're talking about people that folks
don't even expose themselves to.
>> Loren (16:56):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (16:56):
How are they going to connect to it?
So uh, it then again goes back to
who are you exposed to? Are you living in that
bubble? Are you so against it because you
think everyone thinks is you already and it's a no brainer
because you're just in that bubble. I would say it
news. And you could maybe look at this a little bit too. If it's a
(17:16):
controversial story that I know the nation is divided on and I'm
getting like, you know, nasty emails from both sides. I would say as
a journalist, we've done a good job that day.
>> Loren (17:24):
Right, right, right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (17:27):
And sometimes, you know, I have to say that
uh, you know, the facts are the facts,
the they're, the
people are people and
it all comes down to connecting
those stories and people. That's so much of
why I say what I've done is so close
(17:47):
to what my dad did. It's, it's people and their stories
and it's what they're going through and you know, advocating for
them. But yeah, if you're trying to
shift thought space.
>> Loren (17:59):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (18:01):
Without connecting to the people you're talking about,
you're going to have a hard time.
>> Loren (18:07):
That's important. I appreciate that observation. I mean obviously,
obviously we might say right in the church space, like
we're actively counting on the Holy Spirit doing some of the work. Right.
I don't know if you can count on that in the news media space. Right.
But I appreciate that point about
breaking through those bubbles to build connections to the
(18:27):
people that you're encouraging people to care
about.
>> Suzanne Nadell (18:32):
Yeah, yeah. It's
partnering and that could be with partnering with a
church in another community.
It can be what you're doing for your outreach. It
could be how welcoming are you to people coming into
your congregation? It can be. I mention in
the book, you know, organizations, there's Be the Bridge, which is a good
(18:53):
one. I mentioned that in the book. There are similar organizations.
What I love about Be the Bridge is when you first sign up for like their
social media channel, you're not even allowed to say
anything for a certain time. Part of
it is just listening at first to take into
uh, take it all in. And that's a huge part of
everything as well. How well are we
(19:14):
doing at listening to others?
>> Loren (19:17):
Yeah, let me stay on this theme because uh, I think it's where
I'm most interested and I'm hoping it's helpful
to the Listeners, certainly.
Hopefully. I'm not being too disparaging of news media right now,
Suzanne, you can tell me. But it seems like, at least
in some cable news circles, like,
there are news media channels that are very focused on a
(19:39):
certain segment of the
populace that is who they're communicating to.
I won't name names. How does
one stay out of that tendency? Because I can imagine
even in your context that you've worked in, there can be a
temptation, and certainly this is true in church,
to just speak to those who are
(20:00):
on the same side of me. So you're not getting
any.
All the emails you're getting are just from one side saying, hey, we
hate what you're saying, and you're getting a bunch of go
Suzanne or go preacher emails.
Uh, how do you avoid just siloing or
channeling to one particular side or
(20:22):
the other?
>> Suzanne Nadell (20:23):
Well, you're referring to cable, and I can't speak to.
I have not worked for, you know, a cable outlet. I, uh,
would say local news is. Is very
different. And we've got the research to show that people still
trust local news versus cable outlets. I do
think some of that has spilled over. And I think when you talk
about affiliations and everything, too, that confuses
(20:43):
people in their minds. I will say, in local
news, how have we. And I've worked with a company
that's been very good at tracking our trust scores
compared to our network and all of those
things, like, all through, to make sure that we keep our
trust. And, you know, the station ownership
group that I've been a part of, we realize trust is our most
valuable strategic thing that we
(21:05):
have. And how we've kept that is we've
stayed at the core of who we are. And that's
journalists. And that is
both sides. That is facts, that
is people storytelling, that is
voice for the voiceless, all of those things.
So staying true to who we are,
(21:25):
I would say that can go to the church.
Staying true to who we are.
Are we loving God? Are we loving people?
Or are we becoming a congregation?
>> Loren (21:37):
That.
>> Suzanne Nadell (21:37):
That is a place centered around a political view.
And we're more about political
lines than we are going back to the
message at keeping Jesus as the center. If
you're keeping Jesus at the center and his message to love God,
love people, really Take a look. Are
you really loving God? Are you really loving people?
(21:58):
That's at the core of it. So I'd say with both of those
things, it goes to the
center of who we are. Are we.
Are we being true journalists?
Are we being True lovers of God and
lovers of people.
>> Loren (22:16):
It's interesting what you point out about the trust level
being higher for local media. And
I'm kind of curious, A, what that's about or, you
know, if you have any insights on what that's about.
And I think, B, I think it sort of reflects again, of what
I've read what we're seeing on the national level about,
like, distrust or mistrust of
(22:36):
institutions writ large. But like. Oh, I know.
I mean, does it really just boil down to, like, personal relationships, like
you've said already?
>> Suzanne Nadell (22:44):
I think it does, uh, a lot of it with people.
I think local news, there are a few things we are
dependent on for public safety. So we are very
much more. Neighborhood community. You could take to other
church as well. Neighborhood community. Down at
the, at the center, you're on the ground level. You're
who people turn to. You connect to
(23:05):
people. Like, that's something in TV journalism we have
over digital things. There's that connection to people.
You get to know them. I mean, I.
We have to be careful that we don't get the spillover that's
happened in the cables. And I could go to
a lot of thoughts of why the cables ended up where they were and
agendas and different things, which is a
(23:26):
whole thing on its own. But I would say the thing
about local is we are local
journalists, local businesses, local people
in the community with people
covering news that impacts them on a ground
level every, uh, day. And, you know, we even have to
talk about, you know, there's a lot of stuff in the news
(23:46):
today. How much is it that our local audience is really
into that? How is that speaking to the people in our community
today?
>> Loren (23:55):
Yeah, and it gets to something I was going to ask about here.
You write, dear Church, once you know the truth, what are you going to do about
it? Uh, thinking again through your context of, like,
news, you know, when you're, when you give a story
that perhaps is a national story,
and thinking about, like, oh, do I make this? You know, do I need to bring this
(24:17):
down locally? How do you discern? And again, what do you advise
churches similarly? Because, again, I think there can
be this temptation. I'm not in the context where I'm preaching
every week because I don't have to deal with this, but certainly amongst some of my
clergy friends, there's this temptation. Every time something happens
on the national level, it's a big story.
There's this, oh, I got to rewrite my sermon on Saturday
(24:37):
night type thing.
You deal with that. On some level,
on a local level where I don't know what, the five
o' clock newscast, six o' clock, ten o' clock, whatever.
Uh, thinking from my own context, you have some
of those pressures where, like, oh, do we
redo our entire newscast? I mean, I don't know. You can tell me.
(24:58):
But what does that look like?
>> Suzanne Nadell (25:00):
Yeah, today's a perfect example. The Pope died. Right? Okay,
so we're in Atlanta. Not a huge, huge Catholic community. I
would say if I'm in some cities I've been in, no brainer.
Well, how are we going to connect that to the Atlanta community?
If you just want international Pope coverage, you're going to go to the
cables for that. We're not going to out cable. The cable or out
national. The national. So how do we tell the
(25:20):
Atlanta stories to that? Well, Atlanta is a very diverse
community. He was kind of known as like, the
progressive pontiff. What is he
connected to? How did some of the things he
stand for impact what we've got
going on locally in Atlanta?
I would say for someone in the church, before you
go there, what's going on big nationally, how do you
(25:43):
connect that to talking to your congregation
about how they're going to live every day if you're not giving
them a takeaway that is actionable
and real? And how are we doing it? If you're just doing
it to give everyone riled up, you're just getting
everyone riled up and, you know, talking,
what are you doing to take that message
(26:04):
and what's going on to put that in everyday practice
to be the hands and feet of Jesus?
And so the question, again, that we ask in news
is, how are we doing that to connect
to our local community in a different way that connects
to our viewers? And again, I think
you could just take that with a congregation as well. How are you
(26:24):
connecting that specifically? Bring
it home, bring it down, bring it local,
bring it every day. And how do you connect the
dots in that?
>> Loren (26:35):
Yeah, that's helpful because, like, my media
consumption tends to be mostly like sports
radio. Uh, not as much as now. I'm not
driving as much. Uh, but that's something
like one of the afternoon drive shows. Like, they do
that really well all the time, where they'll start with
like this big kind of national
sports, and then they always bring it down, like you said,
(26:56):
to like. And to me, it's such a
easy transition. It makes sense because I get the best of both
worlds as a sports fan. Like, I'm hearing about
the, the big whatever happening in
The XYZ League. But also, like,
it's appropriate to my context as a. As someone who
lives in Denver and follows local teams.
>> Suzanne Nadell (27:17):
Right, yeah. The context, we call it the context, perspective
and relevance. What is the context to what's going on?
What is the perspective and how is it relevant to me?
>> Loren (27:28):
I'm going to keep talking through this because I think it's really interesting, again,
thinking about, like, a pastor.
So there's a big national story breaks, the Pope
dies. Right. Let's just stay in the story because, I mean,
we're obviously timestamping ourselves here,
recording this on the Monday the Pope died.
Um, so the Pope dies, and
we're thinking about, like, let's say Pope dies on a Friday, Saturday
(27:52):
afternoon instead. Like.
And I want to mention something about the Pope in my sermon.
So I've got to figure out some way to, like, mention
the story and then try to find some connection
to what. Something the Pope was about that's relevant to my context
or church. Then is that fair?
>> Suzanne Nadell (28:10):
Correct. Correct. And I think, you know, depending on your stance on the
Pope, could be different with this
Pope in particular, the different, you know,
ways you could go. But, you know, let's say, you know,
that it's, uh, you know, caring
for the orphans and the migrants and,
you know, what drove that and what
(28:31):
are you doing in your community, like, here? One of the things that we did
Newswise today is we've got a huge Latin American association.
So we initially, of course, we went to our Latin American
association, um, to talk about, you
know, their efforts and how, you know, he's. He spoke
to them, you know, how he, you know, not
alienating people,
uh, whichever way you
(28:52):
wanted to go. Yeah. Thinking about how he
connects, how his message connected, how that
message connects to it.
Um, a lot of different ways you could go.
>> Loren (29:02):
Yeah.
How about the other side of this? Because, like, I'm thinking again,
there's so many news stories that happens or so many things
you could put in the news. How do you discern, like,
what. This is an important story, but just not. Like,
I certainly felt the pressure where, like, you have to say any.
Anytime a story breaks, you're like, I've got to put this in the
sermon somehow, or I've got to mention this on Sunday and at some point, like, it just,
(29:23):
like it doesn't fit. So how do you discern that?
>> Suzanne Nadell (29:26):
Not everything does. We talk about the impact and the value.
Like, is it something that really needs to be discussed right now? But
no, not everything makes the cut. Not everything makes the
Cut. And you have to decide. You have to be
strategic. Right. Like if you're jumping on
something every week,
it's can get lost.
(29:48):
So what has value to it?
What ah, has impact? What's
you know, your people, you know, your congregation.
>> Loren (29:58):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (29:59):
You know what's going to resonate with them the most and which things
are rising to the top.
>> Loren (30:04):
Yeah.
So I want to, I want to come back to one more thing from your book. For sure.
So don't miss this. You talk about the
importance of kindness and I'm thinking to
stories you wrote in your book about talking
amongst yourselves in the newsroom about difficult conversations.
I'm thinking about how there's been so many challenging
topics in the last four or five years
(30:27):
that churches and leaders have had to wrestle with.
A pastor or church leader wants to
speak truth.
How have you seen that navigate really well where someone is
speaking truth? Again? Maybe it's even from the
context of the newscast where
your anchors are speaking truth, but they're doing it in a kind way.
>> Suzanne Nadell (30:50):
Again. It's realizing you're talking to a person.
And that's what I think we've forgotten with social media.
>> Loren (30:56):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (30:57):
It's just become okay to forget that
that person is a person. My boss
says and I say to my news managers, let's
assume every day
the action being done in the newsroom or that
conversation comes from a place of good
intentions.
>> Loren (31:15):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (31:17):
And we have to
realize that people.
We're talking to people, we're talking
about people.
And for some reason it spilled into again. We
could have a big broader conversation
but we've forgotten that we're talking to
(31:38):
people about. About people.
There are people I'd write down in my journal.
So and so. If I'm having a hard time with a person, I'll say so
and so is a child of God. Like just
remote remembering. Every person we're talking
about is a child of God. The person you
cannot stand the most right now in the
(31:59):
climate is a child of God.
Remembering we're talking to a child of God. I remember
that. I have to remind myself of that in the
newsroom. It's taking that pause.
>> Loren (32:12):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (32:12):
Before you even talk to that person. What kind of
headspace do I need to be in right now?
But yeah, everybody is a child of God. And we have to
remember that.
>> Loren (32:22):
Let's stay on this trend because I think it's interesting.
You're so, uh, you write in your book about
you're purposely finding some ways
to get boundaries and we should come back to that. If we
have time.
But I want to talk about this because you're talking about trying to stay
centered, stay grounded amongst the
chaos. And I'm thinking like, especially you being so
(32:43):
dialed into what's happening. You write in
your book about peace comes from being reminded there's more
to life than your present circumstances. And there is one,
I'm assuming that one, it's God who is looking out for you.
Talk more if you can. Share about like, again,
whether it's someone like you in news media, whether it can be
a pastor or clergy person or church
(33:05):
leader, there's so much going on in our world right now. And
we're often so dialed in because of social
media or other things that we can easily
find ourselves. I know I can. Being
aflutter from all that's
happening. How do you find that
peace for yourself?
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:23):
You have to force yourself to disconnect. This is where I said
Sabbath earlier is very important. And by the way,
if you think that
your world cannot go on
without you.
>> Loren (33:38):
Hm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:39):
You got a couple things going on.
>> Loren (33:41):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:42):
First, you're not trusting people and you
don't have the right people around you.
>> Loren (33:47):
M. Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:48):
You're also not trusting God. And I would
go as far to say you're trying to play God.
>> Loren (33:53):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (33:54):
There's only one person who can control everything. There's
only one person who's perfect.
We don't have to be that plugged in
all the time. And God
created Sabbath for us.
>> Loren (34:08):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (34:09):
We've got to disconnect. That's where we get the perspective.
Because if you're just getting stuff in, in, in, in, in, it's
overload. And everything is going. And how
do you sort out what. What God is really telling
you about that versus what people are telling you
if you don't slow down to sit in it and
think about it. So that comes. It's trust. I say
(34:29):
it's trust. Was my word of the year for a while. And
trust was about trusting the people
around me, trusting myself in
the way God made me to be, and most of all, trusting
God. I believe a lack of Sabbath
at the core of why many people don't Sabbath is it's a
trust of God, a lack of a trust of trust of God that he's going to take care of
(34:50):
you. He's going to take care of everything
around you. It's about trusting God.
>> Loren (34:57):
Got to write that down here. Uh, lack of
Sabbath, lack of. Lack of trust.
So it sounds like boundaries are really important then.
So let's, let's Continue on on that theme,
what have you. I kind of liked what I don't want to
maybe I don't know if I want to say for you, but share if you would, what
you've had to do or what's been helpful for you to like set
(35:18):
some rigid boundaries for yourself. I appreciate
the example of your husband. Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (35:23):
Yeah. I've had to get some good people around
me at work. That's, you know,
something that I've had to do. People I could trust.
I've had to do a lot of self work on it.
I've had to be very clear with the people I work
for and the people who work for me. I talk
about zones in house. I believe there's uh, good
(35:44):
physical boundaries. Like right now I'm doing this from my
office, my home office. This is my book
stuff. This is not my station stuff. This is not my family
stuff. It has a place. I try
really hard, unless I just need a change of scenery
to only do work in the house in certain areas.
>> Loren (36:03):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (36:03):
If I'm not doing work in the living room, that means
that is a family place. And then when I'm with my
son, I'm not distracted
and they see that too. So I love.
It's called work zones. There's a book called the Leader
that um, you want to be and she talks about work
zones. And in a time where more and more people are
(36:24):
working from home, I think that's very important. I write in the book
Covid was like the worst boundary time for me ever.
>> Loren (36:30):
Right, right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (36:31):
I was just working all the time,
everywhere. Complete lack of boundaries.
>> Loren (36:36):
Yeah, I remember especially in the height of COVID
it really felt like we weren't working from home, we were
living from work. You know what I'm saying?
Uh, so that was challenging.
I want to ask before we finish this part
of the conversation because you're obviously someone who's
in communications and I think communications is so
(36:57):
essential for churches and pastors. Do you have
anything? The thing I always joke about,
I want to have a stand up comedian on the show because they're obviously really
well at engaging their audience. Saying a comedian
has to do well about maintaining
engagement with an audience for 30, 45 minutes. Uh,
your episodes, your news episodes aren't necessarily that long,
(37:18):
but do you have any tips for pastors or folks
who are on stage at church for good
communication practices?
>> Suzanne Nadell (37:27):
Storytelling. So look at storytelling as through
people's stories, whatever you can put
around a person helps people, uh,
identify. And then I would just always
say we call it pacing.
Think about what you have and where. And that just
keeps the, the flow going,
breaking things up. Like if you've got long
(37:48):
stretches of anything next to each other, it tends to
slow down. So think of things as
like a film strip and films like they put
different sizes next to each other.
So always thinking about
varying where you put things. And that helps
the pacing of things. It keeps moving it around.
(38:09):
So stories and pace, those are two
things we always talk about. Stories and pace.
>> Loren (38:14):
Can you give me an example from like a newscast, what that might look like?
Is that like you have a short story, then a long story type thing.
>> Suzanne Nadell (38:20):
Yeah. So it's not putting a lot of things the same length
back to back. It's not putting too long
things next to each other. It's like, you know,
doing something, getting people in off the top,
then putting, you know, a little something and then a little something
longer and then like maybe a couple of short things,
then something longer. So it's like spacing out
(38:41):
like where you have. So yeah.
>> Loren (38:43):
Okay. So if I'm a pastor and I'm writing a sermon, then I'm
going to want to have at least a couple
stories in there. Right. About people.
So I guess, um, if I have a long quote or a long
segment, like I want to break that up with a
shorter quick thought.
>> Suzanne Nadell (38:59):
Correct. You don't want to put too long quotes back to get
back.
>> Loren (39:03):
Okay.
>> Suzanne Nadell (39:03):
You don't want to put too long
readings back to back. You m. Want to
break them up with. With something. So
whether it be a quick story or a quick
transition. Um, but break
them up so you don't have length next to length for
a long time. So break things up a bit.
(39:24):
But stories I would always. Wherever you know,
and when I preach, I always try to start with a story. You
figure uh, out where, where that spot is that you can
connect it, uh, with a person and stories. And I would say even. I was even thinking
of your whole service where I was saying you don't want long things.
Like you want to make sure that you're thinking of your service. If you've got long
readings that day, what are you putting around the long
(39:44):
readings?
>> Loren (39:46):
So obviously, I imagine in your local broadcast
commercial breaks, I don't know about. In a service we have
commercial breaks, mind you. But again, thinking about
like teasers and those transitions.
Any thoughts on. I don't know if
you want to build up a teaser maybe for the.
From the worship singing to the
(40:06):
sermon. But what thoughts do you have
whether either within the sermon or the Whole service at
large.
>> Suzanne Nadell (40:12):
Probably not a teaser in any's cast. Even though you
could say if you're a church that has like a
board up in the beginning, you know, with slides,
you can have like kind of a, you know,
what's coming up or something there, uh, to
do that. But I would say, yeah, you don't have commercial
breaks, but where it is, you do your hellos with everyone.
>> Loren (40:32):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (40:33):
Where it is, I would say in your. Keeping in mind
who you're having do what each week.
So if your communion liturgy person is a slower talker
that week, is your open and closer or your,
your reader a faster paced person. Okay.
Uh, you know, thinking of those kinds of things too.
Like, you don't want your two slow talkers on the same
day. Again, this is like
(40:56):
ideal world. It's church world. Sometimes it's whoever you've got to do
with that week. Let's be real.
>> Loren (41:00):
Yeah, right.
Okay, uh, last thing here before we take a break. Any
like, I always like to ask this question to folks who are
in communications. Like any, like, anything, like
pastors or communicators should like, immediately start doing
or stop doing from what you've seen.
Ooh.
>> Suzanne Nadell (41:19):
Immediately stop or start. So just remember, simple.
Okay, Simple. I'd say when it comes to slides
and things, one thought per
slide, just say, simplify things. We, like, tend
to get cluttered. Uh, don't forget,
it takes many times for people to get
a message. I would say
(41:39):
also the young ones don't read
email, folks.
So figure out how to get the messages out there besides email.
The young ones may not see email for a long time. It
took us a long time to get on email at church. We're just really slow at
church. You know, it took us long enough to get on email.
Now everyone's texting or doing something
(41:59):
else. So pay attention to how your folks are getting
your messages.
>> Loren (42:04):
Yeah. Okay. This has been a good conversation. I feel like
I'd ask you more about communications and
stuff, but, uh, I want to respect your
time. The book is again, Wired to Lead, Being the
leader the church didn't think you could be. Let's
take a quick break and we'll come back with some closing questions.
(42:24):
All right, we're back with Suzanne Nadell. Thank you so much for
the conversation. The question, these,
uh, closing questions I always ask folks, and it
feels a bit more somber today. As we talked about,
the Pope has just died. This question is meant to be
more kind of like, you know, what if
you had absolute control over one
(42:46):
sort of entity in a day. So you can. You're welcome to
take it from that side, or if you want to
reflect, share some reflections on the actual Pope.
I want to leave that to you, since we are in this current context.
>> Suzanne Nadell (42:58):
Well, I will just say with current Pope in mind,
uh, it's going to be very interesting where
the Catholic Church goes next for their next Pope.
>> Loren (43:07):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (43:08):
But I would just say he
did a lot of things of, uh, moving forward,
and it's been awesome to see
them moving forward and the conversations that
some circles hadn't had before. It really goes to a lot of what
we've been talking about, and he was a champion
of those things, and I think that's something that I hope people talk
(43:30):
about a lot, and I hope people keep in mind.
He really was a champion of moving thought
and conversations and inclusivity and
loving God and loving people, uh, forward.
And I think that's just something
really to be celebrated.
Uh, I thought he was a good messenger
(43:52):
for that in a time when we needed it.
>> Loren (43:54):
Yeah. And I felt like he really kind of got, like, the. The
cultural context. I, uh, was just reading an
article this morning, and I talked about, like, he didn't do
a big show wherever he went, so to speak. Like, he
was much more personable and,
you know, less what they say.
Like, he didn't do, like, the huge entourage, so to speak.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:14):
Yeah.
>> Loren (44:15):
I really think, like, he got that. He understood that,
uh, the importance of that, like, relatability, like we've been talking
about.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:21):
I think he really understood who he was talking to and who he needed
to reach.
>> Loren (44:25):
Right.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:26):
And some people have used that in not
good ways. Yeah, he used that in a really good
way.
>> Loren (44:32):
Oh, that's a good point. Um,
good point.
Let's do this. A theologian, a historical Christian figure you'd want
to meet then or bring back to life.
>> Suzanne Nadell (44:42):
Priscilla. I am such a huge
Priscilla Aquila story person. I've
even thought about, um, giving away an idea,
like, writing, like, uh, historical fiction on
Priscilla. Like, I'm fascinated by
Priscilla and Aquila. Like, she's
mentioned before him, like, half the time or nearly
half the times in the Bible. What is it she was really
(45:04):
up to? What was really, you know, behind all of their money and
power? Like, I just. I. I, uh, want to meet
Priscilla. I want to hang with Priscilla. I think she's my
people.
>> Loren (45:14):
I just read about. Can't remember the book. I just
read about making the point that
Priscilla being mentioned first in those contexts, like, is
a big deal. I'm trying to remember where I read that.
>> Suzanne Nadell (45:26):
Yeah, it's. I've read it in a few places and they're
like, that is not to be lost. And the fact that they
intentionally mentioned her verse which showed that she was
looked at on equal footing as a teacher and head of
household. Uh, but Priscilla,
Lydia, Phoebe, any of those. Prafilla first
I've done a talk on. I view those three as like power women
(45:47):
in the New Testament that we didn't talk about much
growing up. And they've got some fascinating
stories.
>> Loren (45:53):
Okay, this is a good question for you.
What do you think history will remember from our current time and place?
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:00):
I think it's important for us to remember this as a blip.
>> Loren (46:03):
Hmm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:06):
It's all of this like if you look at history books and what
happens in time.
>> Loren (46:11):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:12):
I'm not saying things right now are like all good or
whatever, but.
>> Loren (46:15):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:16):
We've been in bad times before and this
is really like part of a larger thing.
>> Loren (46:21):
Yeah.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:22):
Not just like a decade. It's not like they're like, you know, on,
you know, it's gonna be a full chapter on it. There's gonna be a full chapter
on World War II through now.
>> Loren (46:31):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:31):
Like this is all a
little part of big history.
And I think we've got to remember, looking back, they're going to
look at now in the context of what has happened in
the 50 years before us and the 50 years after us.
>> Loren (46:48):
It's helpful to have that perspective.
>> Suzanne Nadell (46:50):
I think too, with that too. I think we have to look
at also what's come up and what's led to this point.
And I think in history what we look at, looking at what led
up to this point.
>> Loren (47:00):
Sure.
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:01):
As much as at this point and we want to
get and uh, talk about at this point right now
and not talk about what got us to this point.
And there are some things we've got to alter about what got us
to this point. And that was decades in the making.
>> Loren (47:15):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Okay, this, this last question I feel like, feels appropriate because you spend
so much your, your books, you know. Dear church, Dear
church, dear church. What are your hopes for
the. Dear church, what are your hopes for the future of Christianity?
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:33):
That we become
less
politically
divided.
>> Loren (47:43):
Mhm.
>> Suzanne Nadell (47:45):
It's an interesting time.
And my hope is that we become
kind of like. I look at us in like, you know, smaller
areas where the church is just needed and it's that
center of your community, it's your
neighborhood church, it's that small town Church.
It's, it's that center,
(48:07):
both spiritually, physically and everything
that ties us together. And I think
we've got to revert to some of that, uh, thinking.
>> Loren (48:18):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. Uh, it does
seem like, broadly speaking, like the whole
megachurch model is slipping
away or declining in some ways and even mega
churches are going to a satellite
campus type model to try to be more invested
in their local neighborhoods rather than just like
(48:38):
a 30 minute commuter,
transitory type church.
>> Suzanne Nadell (48:43):
We need community, we need people.
All of these things that I've talked about, connecting with
people and community and stories. You
only get that from actually living in community with
people. Yeah, and I think that's a lesson for the
church too.
>> Loren (48:59):
Well, share where people can connect with you. Get the
book, all that stuff.
>> Suzanne Nadell (49:04):
So wired to lead. You can get it where most books are
sold. Amazon, Chalice Press, who is my,
uh, publisher, their website.
So please check it out there and then
you can follow me on Instagram as my main social media
source. At suzannedell, I'm there
nearly every day. I share these things called back deck
chats. Um, my blog,
(49:25):
suzannadel.com is where you can
check that out. I also have courses and then I'm also
involved in, as I kind of transition out of news later
this year, an organization called she Leads Church, which
is@she leads church.com and that is
about embracing female Christian leaders both in the
church space and in the marketplace space.
>> Loren (49:46):
That's awesome. Cool. I didn't realize that was a thing you're working
on. I'm, uh, going to follow that and look forward to
hearing more and seeing more about that.
Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate the conversation.
We always leave folks with a word of peace, so may God's peace
be with you.
>> Loren Richmond (50:08):
Thanks for joining us on the Future Christian Podcast. The
Future Christian Podcast is produced by Resonate Media.
We love to hear from our listeners with questions, comments
and ideas for future episodes. Visit
our website@uh, future-christian.com
and find the Connect with Us form at the bottom of
the page to get in touch with Martha or Loren.
(50:28):
But before you go, do us a favor, subscribe to
the podcast pod to leave a review. It really helps us get
this out to more people. Thanks and go in
peace.
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