Building the Future: Paul Doherty on the Intersection of Architecture and Technology in Smart Cities
January 16, 2024 • 36 mins
Embark on a transformative exploration of architecture and technology with Paul Doherty, the visionary at the helm of the Digit Group. Our latest episode of Future Construct showcases Paul's fascinating shift from an architecture enthusiast to a tech entrepreneur, illuminating the untold stories behind the evolution of smart cities. As we converse, Paul unveils the intricate dance between brick-and-mortar structures and digital innovation, from the early use of modems on construction sites to the creation of interconnected urban landscapes.
Woven throughout this episode is the narrative of digital tools reshaping the architectural world, with Paul Doherty as our guide. The journey begins with the birth of parametric CAD and continues through the rise of Building Information Modeling, the foretelling of the metaverse, and the implementation of smart city technologies. Paul regales us with tales of software pioneering that led to the realization of futuristic cities in China, reminding us that at the core of urban design lies a deep, humanistic intent. His experiences serve as a testament to how embracing technological advancements can transform not just the skyline but the very fabric of urban living.
As the episode unfolds, Paul and I turn our gaze to the horizon, pondering the future of technology and its potential to enhance the human experience. In this thought-provoking exchange, we discuss the importance of attracting new talent to industries poised for innovation, the role of AI in bridging generational knowledge gaps, and the ways in which technology could enrich our collective intellect. Paul's forward-thinking vision suggests a world where technology serves as a catalyst for societal growth, and his voice is an inspiring call to action for those ready to build the smart cities of tomorrow. Join us for this compelling narrative and envision the boundless opportunities that technology holds for us all.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to Future Construct.
I'm Mark Odin, the CEO of BIMDesign Zinc and guest host of
Future Construct.
Today I'm hosting Paul Doherty,president and CEO at the Digit
Group, also known as TGG.
Welcome, Paul.
Thank you for making the timeto join me.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thank you, mark.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Absolutely so.
As a registered recoveringarchitect, as you mentioned
earlier in the pre-call, athought leader and strategist,
you have founded and are the CEOof the Digit Group TGG, a
leading smart cities design,build, operating and solutions
company headquartered in Memphis, tennessee.
You also have published work asan author, while being an
educator, analyst and consultantto Fortune 500 organizations,
(00:49):
government agencies andprominent institutions, as well
as the most prestigious AC firmsin the world.
You've done all of this overthe past 30 plus years in the
industry.
Thank you, paul, for yourprofound contributions in the AC
space.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, thank you, mark .
It's never about the one person, but it is about the people
that you need, like yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, that's very kind of you to say.
I'd love, in addition to thebackground I gave, I'd love to
hear a little bit morebackground and, in fact, the
story and the path that took youto the Digit Group and enabled
all that success over the past30 years.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah I would say it'd be a good night of drinking,
but that wouldn't be the truth.
Well, maybe a little bit.
So in architectural school Idid work, study because I had
good grades.
They said you could take off asemester, go for your internship
while you're at school, so whenyou come out you can get to
your licensing faster.
So instead of going, I went toschool in New York City and
(01:45):
instead of going to like one ofthe big architectural firms and
doing bathroom details which isreally what you do as an intern
I just I decided to go to IBM atthe heyday, back in the late
80s and into the 90s, where wewere responsible for creating
all the trade show booths forIBM.
Now, ibm was the only game intown.
(02:05):
There was no Apple, there wasno nothing.
And there were these startupcompanies called Adobe and
Microsoft that wanted theirsoftware to work on IBM tools
because now they're validated.
So I had to learn how to ripapart computers, how to put them
together again, do networks inorder to showcase these new
pieces of software that we'regoing to change the world.
So I was always fascinatedabout how come other equipment
(02:29):
manufacturers or OEMs werereally the guts behind these
machines.
You know everything fromgraphics cards to hard drives,
to chips and all these things.
So as I was learning how tobuild computers everything from
AS 400s to RS 6000s to the PS2architecture, where there was no
Ethernet, was called Token RingNetworking.
I'm dating myself, but that'swhere I really cut my teeth
(02:52):
right, because I had to learnhow it went together so I could
showcase it best as a designer.
So PC expo, comdex, things likethat Fast forwarding.
I was always fascinated how comethe building industry did not
take a similar model to thecomputer industry?
Because it's all about OEM.
You have Anderson Windows, yougot this type of garage door,
you have this type of roofshingle.
They're all OEMs, and all we dois builders is actually then
(03:15):
put it all together just likecompact, just like IBM, just
like all of these differentcomputing companies.
They just put their brand on it.
So that has given me the drive,even to this day, about
buildings becoming computers andwhen you would light those up
and you then can connect thosedifferent elements.
Isn't it interesting thatcities then become the Internet
of Buildings?
(03:36):
Now, what do you do?
So with the advent of all ofthat, I got involved with
technology in a big way tonetwork, as I became an
architect and became a designbuilder and I was working on a
Long Island.
Now, if you know Long Island,there's just way too many people
in on enough land so there'salways a traffic jam still to
(03:56):
this day.
So for me to go to all thedifferent projects that we had
going on, it could be that Iwouldn't get to every project,
just because of time I couldn'tget there.
So I had this really cool ideaabout using this thing called a
modem and compact computer,logable portable laptops.
Now, this was really cuttingedge back then, because this was
2400 Baud and I was able to putthat into my different projects
(04:20):
and teach each one of thesupers on the site how do we
start to communicate like atelephone call.
But I could actually see it, soI didn't have to go all the way
around, so it was out ofnecessity.
So I was using a thing calledLotus Notes, which was a great
tool, because they had thisthing called dock link that I
could actually put a graphic upon the screen, click it and it
would go to like, let's say, anAutoCAD drawing or Microsoft
(04:42):
Word specification or somethinglike that.
Well, what happened was myfriends at IBM, after I quote
unquote retired and went to workin the real world.
They said listen, why don't youtell net, which was a function
of the internet back then, overto the server and download this
thing called mosaic at theUniversity of Illinois company?
I did and I said what is thisthing?
(05:03):
And he said listen, you alsohave to go to Australia and
download this thing called awindsock what?
And suddenly when I put the twotogether I had a graphic user
interface and a browser and Idropped Lotus Notes two weeks
later because it was a thingcalled hyperlinks that were the
dock link of Lotus Notes and wewere a web based organization in
the beginning part of 1994.
(05:25):
So way early on, because theinternet back then was AOL on
CompuServe.
But I saw something herebecause I was using it in the
field and I'm like there's a lothere.
So I wanted to write a bookabout it and John Wiley and Sons
turned me down because I said Ijust want to write a book, I
want to have a companion websiteto keep it updated because
things are changing so quick.
So if I want to write a book onthe internet, I want it on the
(05:47):
internet.
And they said no, and I wascomplaining at a trade show, at
a private dinner, and I wassitting next to this guy and we
got along.
I didn't know what he did.
He was a publisher.
He ran RS Means ConstructionCost publications.
He said I'll publish a book andeverything took off from there.
What happened then and thisactually ties into you know
(06:08):
where we are today with thethings like Metaverse and
digital twins and BIM wasextraordinary, because I got on
this public speaking circuit todescribe what the internet was
to the industry worldwide andbecause of that I then had a
book right which was calledcyber places the internet guide
(06:28):
for our industry Pretty thick.
But I then started to take a lotof what the world was giving me
.
At the time there was a lot ofthese things called dot coms,
which was pretty cool, exceptthat this one group came over to
me and they were a desktopbased algorithm.
That was what they called 3Dparametric CAD and I went what
(06:51):
the hell is this?
And they said listen, we haveno money.
I'm like great.
And they said we can give youequity.
So I said all right, and whatwe did was it was called Charles
River Software and I went outand, on behalf of the sales team
, I was like this special agentyou know this advisor that would
go into my friends.
That were all the CIOs and CTOsof all the major architectural
(07:11):
engineering firms in the countryand I pleaded with them just
try it, one seat right.
But we made enough money about$800,000, where Autodesk got so
scared of us that we renamed ourtechnology Revit and we were
bought for $133 million.
That was a good day, a reallygood day.
But what happened was when wewere then involved with the
(07:33):
creation of Building InformationModeling.
At the same time, I wanted toshowcase it, meaning that it
isn't just a production tool.
I wanted to show that thisthing had a digital twin type of
feel to it Because we wereusing it for marketing.
We're using it for fly throughs, for sales, all these different
things around the world.
But my favorite project was in1996, we were advisors to a
(07:59):
group called Screenpoint in SanFrancisco and they were advisors
to a group called Planet Nine.
Planet Nine had a contract withthe San Francisco Giants
baseball team to take the newmodel of their new downtown
stadium after moving fromCandlestick Park and they wanted
to showcase it to differentstakeholders the mayor, city
council, things like this, andthey didn't want to buy an
(08:21):
expensive piece of engineeringsoftware just to view the model.
So I knew a guy down in SiliconValley named Tony Parisi and he
knew some people and we put ourheads together with a brand new
type of markup language, becauseup until then HTML was the 2D
way of doing graphics in abrowser.
He figured out 3D and he calledit VRML virtual reality markup
language and I decided in mybook I think we should talk
(08:44):
about this because we're ablenow to take a browser and
actually showcase what this newworld could look like that we
called the metaverse 1996.
So when I start seeing peoplelike Mark Zuckerberg and others
saying, hey, you know, we'regoing to create the metaverse,
it's like why don't you take alook at my book?
(09:05):
Because we wrote the book onthis stuff and what you're going
to hear are stories like this,and that's that's the majority
of the background, becausethrough that we were able to
sell Revit.
We were able to sell a lot ofcopies of the book.
That not that authors makemoney on the book they don't but
it's getting the word out aboutthis 3D graphic communication
way of how now, as an architect,I can.
(09:25):
I can have a better way of ofdetailing what I want to the
constructors, both the generalcontractor and the
subcontractors, in a moremeaningful way.
So that led us to taking a webbased approach to doing some
project management.
So we created this tool calledbuzz saw that got bought by
Odadesk.
Then, with you know, having twosuccesses with major venture
(09:47):
capitalists out of SiliconValley on Sandhill Road, they
introduced us to another groupthat was doing this thing for
facility management in Las Vegasfor a brand new resort called
the Rio Suites, and they werecomplaining about how, with
facility management, they werespending a lot of money and
redundancy on linens and papergoods and things like that.
(10:08):
So we created tri rega, whichwas bought by IBM for close to
half a billion dollars.
So I'm thinking I'm working onwater like I'm an architect that
makes money.
That's impossible, right.
And suddenly now we're in thisworld of half tech.
But I really wanted to stillhave my feet back on the ground
in this in the field, becauseI've been getting too many
(10:31):
requests for these cool tools,but they were unproven.
So I was introduced by a bunchof different VCs to a bunch of
people.
One of them is a guy named RemyArnaud who's still my friend
today.
We put our heads together and hebecame my CTO because he was
upset with Google, because hewas the creator of Google Earth,
right and he and thedevelopment was actually a roll
(10:54):
up by Google.
It was a group called Intrinsic, which then was rolled up into
Keyhole, which became GoogleEarth, and he was frustrated
saying that you know, theseimages are dumb.
You have to attach data to them, like Street View and all these
other things, to actually makeit worth anything.
But wouldn't be interesting ifwe could actually have the data
(11:15):
drive, the geometry?
So we created our own gamingengine.
We put things like BIMdifferent forms of BIM into this
gaming engine and we createdthis viewer within the browser
that allowed us not just to takea look at one building, but
maybe a neighborhood, maybe adistrict or an entire city.
Ibm saw this and they wanted tobuy it and we went through a
(11:38):
process of being introduced toleadership in China that was
going through this thing calledthe revitalization of urban
environments.
Ibm had coined this marketingthing called the Smarter Planets
, smarter Cities, smarterBuilding Program and I said,
well, isn't this interestingbecause I can take a look at an
(11:59):
entire city through a browser,and that's where the term smart
cities came from.
So it was through IBM'smarketing and our implementation
on a massive scale in China,where we were doing tens of
millions of square kilometersworth of build out both
infrastructure and, moreimportantly, how do you start to
talk to people?
(12:19):
In other words, what do thepeople want?
You just don't build a city andpeople go there because it's
built.
You have to start to take alook at it from the humanistic
standpoint.
So from there, I decided not tosell my software and TDG became
a real estate developmentcompany.
Fast forward to today, we're nowconsidered the world leader
when it comes to the humanisticside.
(12:40):
That takes into account thesustainability of both an
economy, the sustainability ofcommunity and the sustainability
of the environment.
So in a few weeks I'm headed toDubai to be a speaker at COP28
to start to describe how thebuilt environment is not just
about putting carbon out there.
That's not our job.
But there are people out therethat are taking a very strong
(13:04):
look at large projects like myproject in Saudi Arabia called
Niyam the world's largestproject and being able to at
least start the process ofthinking through our processes.
And how did tools like theDigital Twins and BIM start to
be valued beyond just beingconstruction documents, that
they can actually be simulationsand start rethinking how we
(13:26):
build things so that we arelowering carbon footprints and
we are doing the right thing.
So that's a little bit of abackground mind.
I know I went a little overthere, but by 30 second elevator
speech, I'm a New Yorker,that's Irish.
I can't help myself.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
That's awesome, Paul.
Well, thank you so much forthat background.
I'm extremely honored to bespeaking with you, considering
and to use the word architect onanother layer, to for you to be
the architect of multiple ofthese different technologies and
digital transformations thatthe world has undergone over the
last 30 years and to documentand record your knowledge and
(14:03):
share.
That is just an outstandingaccomplishment and really
respect and treasure what you'vebeen able to do with this
industry.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, thank you, and with that, I think that I'll
just need to take a break here.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Welcome back to Future Construct.
I'm Mark Oden, the guest host.
I'm also here with Paul Doherty, who just introduced a little
bit of his background and how heended up founding the Digital
Group and TDG.
We'd love to hear more, paul,after your founding of TDG.
Where did that take you andwhat do you see in current
technology and what do you seefor the future in technology?
(14:41):
Well, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Mark, when we were going through this process
sometimes there's that phraseyou got to stop and smell the
roses every once in a while,because I mean, as you know,
through digital transformation,the work that you guys do,
you're running and gunning right, because there's always new
things that come in, and whatdoes that mean?
How does that provide value,not just to your customers, but
(15:06):
also then, how do you raise theindustry right when we know
where the pain points are?
But the problem has been thatwe've never really gotten into a
movement.
People talk about community allthe time, but communities are
communities.
Movements move, and what I sawjust about 10 years ago was I
(15:27):
needed to repatriate myself.
I was living in China.
I had some great success there.
I lived in India for a bit,moved down to Australia and New
Zealand, and it was time to comehome because I needed to really
take all that great stuff thatwe were doing overseas not just
with the technology, but alsowith supply chains right.
We were able to take Americangoods, products and services
(15:49):
under the watchful eye of theDepartment of Commerce and see
how these innovations wouldthrive or fail in foreign
projects.
One really good thing aboutChina is that if it went
sideways.
There's no lawyers we're prettygood, right.
But what was cool was we calledit the boomerang program, in
that innovations in water,innovations in energy, education
(16:10):
, healthcare, all these thingsthat make up an urban
environment now have a place tohave a sandbox and start to grow
.
So I wanted to bring it back tothe US only because a lot of
the boomerangs they were notreally being positioned properly
in this term of smart cities,because smart cities, people,
(16:30):
it's a big elephant.
Some people are touching thetrunk and they're like this is a
smart city.
It's like me, I'm touching thebutt, you know.
That's why I call smart cities,but it really is about human
centric and data drivenenvironments and that's where
the promise is, because when youthink like that, it's called a
systems approach, meaning thatfrom Leonardo da Vinci I was
going to say Leonardo da Caprio,leonardo da Vinci, he had a
(16:53):
great quote saying thateverything is connected to
everything.
You just have to see it Right.
So I'm still learning how tosee how all of this stuff
intertwines.
Where you know, when we dealwith projects.
I was on a team as a subjectmatter expert with McKinsey and
company that had this project inRiyadh to reposition the entire
(17:14):
country of Saudi Arabia.
So I was part of the team thatcreated Vision 2030.
It's being used to this day andI was responsible for being on
the team that was describing thecity of the future.
It's now called Neon.
It's the world's largestproject and I'm pleased with how
much they're adhering to whatthat overall conceptual plan is.
(17:36):
They have a couple of thingswhere you know I may not agree
with it, but the bottom line isthey're doing it Right.
So when you get into that typeof responsibility, it really
comes into, you know, the worldof showing your best and I think
that's one big message.
I'd love your audience to knowthat don't be afraid, because we
got one shot at this Right andyou may fail, but with failure
(18:00):
there's always learning, andthat's what I find about the
tech community and the techmovement within the AEC market
right now.
There's so many smart kids thatare coming in that have
different types of skill setsfrom the you know from my
generation and they're pushingthe envelope, which is what I
love.
You know where the monolithicworld of you know you must buy
(18:20):
from this publisher and it'sthis type of license and that's
it.
That's kind of going out thedoor, which I love.
I love.
I love these startup type ofthings because they're creating
gems.
The key is, how do you createthese gems and string them
together so it becomes abeautiful necklace?
And that's where we come in.
We have been very, veryfortunate in life.
I am called the walking livingversion of forest gump because
(18:45):
there's certain things that I doand I get introduced to that
the normal person should neverdo it, but I'm into.
I just I'm very lucky, okay,but the energy I think of why we
do things is really based uponhigher level of visions, such as
impact.
So one of the things thatallows us to do this large scale
work is that I'm in with thefinancial industry, have gained
(19:08):
their trust over the years.
So that 10 years ago approachwhere we started this
conversation, imagine 10 yearsof success with payback, except
that it's not under normalfinancial conditions.
With impact investing, you'reeither impacting an individual,
a couple of family, aneighborhood, a district, a
community, a society and theenvironment, and it's in that
(19:31):
pecking order that we take avery healthy responsibility
about learning how to designproperly, because right now,
with the advent of things likeautonomous vehicles right and
that certain jurisdictions noware looking at them as being not
just for individuals, but aspart of a public transportation
(19:51):
system.
Well, that does one big thingyou no longer need a street grid
.
Now you can place buildingswhere they're supposed to be, on
that position on planet Earth.
And maybe it's about makingbuildings closer to each other
in one part of the city becausethey know there's a wind event
that happens going from the seaback up into the mountains.
And when you create that funnel, we're able to put different
(20:15):
types of capturing mechanisms,like tree bill electric, which
is a friction type of thing, onthe outside of the building,
which generates power, right.
So we're thinking throughthings where it's not about a
solar panel, it's not about awindmill, you know, type of
thing.
It's not about that anymore.
We don't know, we don't need tobe discreet, we need to be
integrated, and that's reallywhere the power.
(20:38):
I think of the technologies thatwe're seeing, specifically
things like the digital twin,and when you put it on to a
gaming engine, suddenly we havea new tool, because the
lifecycle of them is reallywhat's important, right?
It's always been seen as the 3DCAD, right, and it's been very
frustrating, quite frankly, forthe majority of people.
(20:59):
The nomenclature is different.
Someone coined the termfamilies, like what?
But we've had to deal with allof that.
But I think what I'm seeing islight at the end of the tunnel,
because when you can emancipatethat 3D construction document
and then put it onto other toolslike gaming engines, now all of
a sudden, we have thisemancipation providing extra
(21:21):
value into facilities managementoperations, into city
management, into utilitymanagement, in ways like we
haven't even thought of yet.
So when I start to see thesegeometries moving, suddenly, I
start to see all the differenttechnologies out there that are
being used in the financialsector, in supply chains and all
(21:42):
this.
I'm going wait a second.
If we've created a beautifulbody, right now BIM is a
mannequin, but if we startputting tools in behind it,
we're now creating vessels,we're creating organs that are
going to be living within thisway of communicating better,
which is in 3D.
So when I take it as an example, with blockchain, we now have a
(22:06):
number of different projectsthat we can point to that are
using what's called smartcontracts.
The smart contracts are not justlike PDFs that everyone agrees.
In those digital signatures,the actual agreement is written
into the code so that the databecomes immutable.
Now all of a sudden we gotsomething, because our entire
industry is based on contracts.
That's why they're calledgeneral contractors.
(22:27):
So when we have thatopportunity to start to say I
trust this piece of data, Itrust that piece of data, we can
have a transaction.
Now all of a sudden we'vefinally hit the truth button,
because the big problem in everyindustry, but particularly in
ours, is no one really trustswhere that comes from.
Sometimes we're building on ahouse of cards just because
(22:48):
people say it's something.
A reference is a record document.
Record documents are supposedto be handed off to the owner so
the facility manager knowswhere stuff is.
There's never been a perfectset of construction documents up
until now.
The VAV box up in the plenumand it's got to be repaired.
I can't tell you how manyfacility managers send their
crew out there.
The guy goes up on the ladderand goes there's no VAV box.
(23:09):
They don't trust what's inthere.
But now with smart contracts,we have a verification system
that these people agreed.
We know where it's at.
You put smart contracts nowinto the flow of BIM.
Now things get very interesting,because you can have a schedule
that is now tied to work andthat work can be then taken with
(23:32):
things like GPS and other typesof geolocation devices that we
require in our jobs.
Now, every piece of equipment,material, appliance that comes
onto our site, the manufacturerhas to say I'm a GM refrigerator
, I'm a GAF roof product andit's costly, just saying that we
(23:55):
tune that and we understandwhere everything is on the site.
Number one.
Number two we can geolocatewhen those things are put into
place but say it's a trust.
The trust is telling us becausethe model is constantly
monitoring that the BIM isactually monitoring that this
thing is now put in place.
We then give 24 hours for thesite superintendent to go out to
(24:16):
see was it put in place in aquality manner.
He hits a button and payment ismade right away.
Now, all of a sudden, we haveworkflow.
Everything's connected toeverything and guess what we're
getting at the end of the day?
A digital asset that's accurate.
We're no longer asking someonearound at the field going did
they install the light switch inthe proper place?
We know where everything'slocated because in real time,
(24:38):
we're capturing the play by playof the installation of the
building and at the end, we knowexactly where everything is.
These are just simple examplesof when you put that into a
world that you can have.
In the same way that the SanFrancisco Giants do not want to
have a proprietary piece ofsoftware just to show their 3D
(24:59):
model their baseball stadium andwe used a browser to do it
we're now, 35 years later, inthe same place.
We're no longer worried about3D BIM when you put it onto that
gaming engine.
You're now creating a virtualworld, and that virtual world
resides in this place called theMetaverse.
The Metaverse doesn't exist yet.
It's starting.
(25:20):
But if you consider that outerspace is there, but it's not
there, there you can't touch it.
There's nothing physical aboutit, but you know it's outer
space, that's the Metaverse.
Once people understand that,that you have to have galaxies
and solar systems and planetsthat then give a human being the
idea that there is places to go.
(25:40):
That's exactly where we're atat this point in the Metaverse,
and that means that digitaltwins are a mirror of reality.
Virtual worlds reside in theMetaverse and it's a better
communications device Once youstick things like Web3
technologies, things like AI,smart contracts, blockchain into
the mix.
So this is the way that we'reseeing the future of
(26:01):
construction and we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
That's fantastic.
Thank you, paul, for theoverview and that actually takes
us into.
You shared with us earlier yoursecond book and I understand
that you're publishing yourninth book called Unlocking the
Metaverse a Guide for the BuiltEnvironment.
Would you share with theaudience a high-level sneak peek
into the book?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Actually, this past April we talked about Smart
Cities and it's up on Amazonright now.
It's doing very well and againit's to give the message out
there.
This book gave the opening forthe Unlocking the Metaverse book
.
It's published by John WileySons, the famous publishing
house in New York.
It is available up on Amazon.
It's rated number one newrelease, which is really cool,
(26:42):
but it'll be available onDecember 12th, so just a little
over a month away.
The book itself is meant toprovide a strategic guide for
the future of our builtenvironment, meaning that
descriptions, like I just said,that one use case of how all
these things come together isalso giving life to different
types of valuations.
Here's a for instance.
(27:05):
We have at the moment going upin Qingdao, china, a virtual
reality theme park, and thatvirtual reality theme park is
going to be online in about twomore quarters, so I would say by
June of next year.
The theme park is not meant toopen up until June of 2025.
(27:25):
So what we're doing is we'retaking construction documents,
we're putting it on to a gamingengine and now we're creating
rules about how you can go visitthe latest games from Epic
Games, from groups like Tencent,who are in charge of the League
of Legends gaming, activision,blizzard All these different
(27:48):
groups almost have pavilionsphysically that are going to be
there.
But we're going to be there.
But we're opening it up a yearahead of time and charging
people certain premiums that toplay the latest game of Fortnite
, do this, do that, and the ideais that we're going to be
generating so much revenueonline before the physical place
opens up that it will reduceour construction loan by 8% on a
(28:11):
$1.6 billion build out.
That's huge.
Now we're starting to show bestpractices about this is what it
means.
This is what it means forpracticality and also how you
build community.
So I'm learning a lot from myson.
He's 13, and there's a peckingorder.
When he grew up, it was allabout Minecraft.
Then he went to Roblox.
(28:31):
Now he's into Fortnite and thatpecking order.
I'm asking questions all thetime because he's the native
with his friends.
They are seamless about theirrelationship as friends.
If they're digital or they'rephysical, they're still the same
people.
But because of that, we have tolearn as the immigrants.
How does that work?
(28:52):
Because all of the work thatwe're doing right now is not
meant for the right now.
It's meant for the generationscoming up, and then also for a
big thing in our industry is howdo we start to attract the
younger generation into theindustry?
Because in the old days it wasthe place where guidance
counselors in high schools andstuff were like, listen, you're
(29:13):
not going to cut it in college,and they dumped people into the
construction industry become aplumber, become a man and it was
always kind of looked down upon.
But, mark, we're in a worldright now where we're worried
about the existence of humanrace.
A lot more people are more keenabout that, climate change, all
this other stuff.
There's only three things thatthe human race needs for
existence and that's food, waterand shelter.
(29:34):
We have a very noble causeEveryone listening to this
podcast.
You have a noble cause that youshould wake up every day with
your head held high Because weare helping protect the human
existence on this planet withthe work that we do.
No matter if you're a plumber,soul practitioner, architect,
you are a corporate leader inour industry.
(29:56):
You should all hold your headsup high.
And that's really where we'restarting to come from, where,
when we deal with our customersand those customers are in the
tens of millions, because thosecustomers are citizens of the
places that we design, whichmeans that we have to have a
higher calling, a higher ideaabout why we do what we do.
(30:21):
One thing is to look at thenobility of what we do.
Another way of looking at it isour industry has been famous for
years of taking a scarcitymindset, meaning that there's a
finite amount of pie and I wantto take as much pie as I can,
and it's almost like a doggy dogworld.
We're coming at it differentlyand I really enjoy when people
get it all over the world whenthey work on a project in Saudi
(30:43):
or in China or in Australia andthey're like we've been waiting
for this and it's calledabundance.
If you come from a mindset ofabundance, things start to get
easier because we now have thetechnologies that can measure
success.
Up until now, it's always beenwell.
We'll see the result at the end.
And did we make money?
Did we do it on time?
I think there's going to bemore micro metrics about how we
(31:05):
start to improve and learn andhave these communications with
each other.
So I'm really, really pleasedto be on this podcast,
particularly because of the workthat you guys do as a core
business.
You guys are enablers, andhaving that type of mindset, I
think, can change the world.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, thank you for your kind words, paul.
We'd love to, as we wrap up theshow, ask you the final
question of the show and as atradition of future Constructor
podcast if you could projectyourself out 25 years and wanted
to have any device, atechnology that would benefit
you personally, what would it beand what would it do?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I think that when we take a look at the constructed
futures of everything that weare doing now, the ultimate goal
and it's something that I soldto the Chinese government and
it's about capturing the essenceof people I don't know if this
(32:04):
kind of sounds like a darkmirror episode, but hear me out
on this With the use of AI, notthe chatbot stuff, that's easy,
the GPT.
Chatgpt that's like 1.0.
It's not that difficult.
It's magical in certain places,but chatbots are not the end,
all but agents are.
(32:26):
Back in 2017, when we pitchedthe idea of this theme park in
China, I was meeting with awhole bunch of Chinese party
leaders and they wanted to knowthis pitch from this American
and I started talking and I washosted by Huawei, by the way,
the big tech company over there,and it was a joint presentation
and they wanted to know whatwas the ultimate goal and the
(32:48):
best value of immersivetechnologies like VR and
augmented technologies like AR,and I said death.
And they were taken aback.
They said well, what do youmean?
And I said, after I'm gonephysically, what the promise is
is that there would be anessence of learned machine
learning that would know mymannerisms, know what I was
(33:10):
going to say, sort of get intothat intelligence agent way of
getting the nomenclature inplace, the repeatability and
understanding how well thatworks, so that maybe my great
grandson could actually have aperson that he can have a
conversation with, that'strusted.
And I said for all of youyou're in the Chinese Communist
(33:31):
Party, there's a ladder system,you can't trust each other A lot
of you can't have friends.
But what would be reallyinteresting is to recreate
Chairman Mao and you could askwhat would Mao do?
So they were blown away.
They signed off on itimmediately.
And that's really where, in 25years, I think that we're going
to be able to capture certainessence so that not from a
(33:52):
standpoint of ego that I want tolive forever no, not that.
But I think sometimes in thegenerational handoffs there are
certain things that have neverbeen said that you wish you had
that extra moment to be able tosay to your son, to your
grandson, great grandson,whoever.
Wouldn't it be interesting tohave, even just even if it's one
way in 25 years and in 100years it becomes two way, where
(34:16):
we can actually build upon theshoulders of giants and be able
to ask those questions so thatit helps the human condition, so
it helps mental health, so ithelps these things.
So that's kind of a visionabout where I'd love to see
things go.
It's not quite as egotisticalas Walt Disney trying to be
frozen forever and he's going towake up in the future.
I think.
Good luck with that.
(34:37):
I'm going to be gone, but theidea is and I think visions,
things like that.
I think people can either takeit or leave it, but the bottom
line is at least explore it,because I think there's a lot of
smart people out there that Iwish I could go back in time and
be able to plug in and get thatinstinctual knowledge, just so
I didn't have to make it so hardand pushing a boulder up the
(34:59):
hill.
So yeah, that's kind of whereI'm seeing where tech can go
that can help the humancondition.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
That's an incredible vision, paul, and I'm
consistently impressed with yourimpact, your positive impact
society on a global level.
It's an outstanding career thatyou've had and, again, I'm
honored that you would sharethis space with us today and
thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Mark just continued success with the podcast of
Huesh Construct and very, verymuch wish you great success with
them.
Designs.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Thank you very much, Paul.
Welcome to Future Construct.
I'm Mark Odin, the CEO of BIMDesign Zinc and guest host of
Future Construct.
Today I'm hosting Paul Doherty,president and CEO at the Digit
Group, also known as TGG.
Welcome, Paul.
Thank you for making the timeto join me.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Thank you, mark.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Absolutely so.
As a registered recoveringarchitect, as you mentioned
earlier in the pre-call, athought leader and strategist,
you have founded and are the CEOof the Digit Group TGG, a
leading smart cities design,build, operating and solutions
company headquartered in Memphis, tennessee.
You also have published work asan author, while being an
educator, analyst and consultantto Fortune 500 organizations,
(00:49):
government agencies andprominent institutions, as well
as the most prestigious AC firmsin the world.
You've done all of this overthe past 30 plus years in the
industry.
Thank you, paul, for yourprofound contributions in the AC
space.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Well, thank you, mark .
It's never about the one person, but it is about the people
that you need, like yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, that's very kind of you to say.
I'd love, in addition to thebackground I gave, I'd love to
hear a little bit morebackground and, in fact, the
story and the path that took youto the Digit Group and enabled
all that success over the past30 years.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah I would say it'd be a good night of drinking,
but that wouldn't be the truth.
Well, maybe a little bit.
So in architectural school Idid work, study because I had
good grades.
They said you could take off asemester, go for your internship
while you're at school, so whenyou come out you can get to
your licensing faster.
So instead of going, I went toschool in New York City and
(01:45):
instead of going to like one ofthe big architectural firms and
doing bathroom details which isreally what you do as an intern
I just I decided to go to IBM atthe heyday, back in the late
80s and into the 90s, where wewere responsible for creating
all the trade show booths forIBM.
Now, ibm was the only game intown.
(02:05):
There was no Apple, there wasno nothing.
And there were these startupcompanies called Adobe and
Microsoft that wanted theirsoftware to work on IBM tools
because now they're validated.
So I had to learn how to ripapart computers, how to put them
together again, do networks inorder to showcase these new
pieces of software that we'regoing to change the world.
So I was always fascinatedabout how come other equipment
(02:29):
manufacturers or OEMs werereally the guts behind these
machines.
You know everything fromgraphics cards to hard drives,
to chips and all these things.
So as I was learning how tobuild computers everything from
AS 400s to RS 6000s to the PS2architecture, where there was no
Ethernet, was called Token RingNetworking.
I'm dating myself, but that'swhere I really cut my teeth
(02:52):
right, because I had to learnhow it went together so I could
showcase it best as a designer.
So PC expo, comdex, things likethat Fast forwarding.
I was always fascinated how comethe building industry did not
take a similar model to thecomputer industry?
Because it's all about OEM.
You have Anderson Windows, yougot this type of garage door,
you have this type of roofshingle.
They're all OEMs, and all we dois builders is actually then
(03:15):
put it all together just likecompact, just like IBM, just
like all of these differentcomputing companies.
They just put their brand on it.
So that has given me the drive,even to this day, about
buildings becoming computers andwhen you would light those up
and you then can connect thosedifferent elements.
Isn't it interesting thatcities then become the Internet
of Buildings?
(03:36):
Now, what do you do?
So with the advent of all ofthat, I got involved with
technology in a big way tonetwork, as I became an
architect and became a designbuilder and I was working on a
Long Island.
Now, if you know Long Island,there's just way too many people
in on enough land so there'salways a traffic jam still to
(03:56):
this day.
So for me to go to all thedifferent projects that we had
going on, it could be that Iwouldn't get to every project,
just because of time I couldn'tget there.
So I had this really cool ideaabout using this thing called a
modem and compact computer,logable portable laptops.
Now, this was really cuttingedge back then, because this was
2400 Baud and I was able to putthat into my different projects
(04:20):
and teach each one of thesupers on the site how do we
start to communicate like atelephone call.
But I could actually see it, soI didn't have to go all the way
around, so it was out ofnecessity.
So I was using a thing calledLotus Notes, which was a great
tool, because they had thisthing called dock link that I
could actually put a graphic upon the screen, click it and it
would go to like, let's say, anAutoCAD drawing or Microsoft
(04:42):
Word specification or somethinglike that.
Well, what happened was myfriends at IBM, after I quote
unquote retired and went to workin the real world.
They said listen, why don't youtell net, which was a function
of the internet back then, overto the server and download this
thing called mosaic at theUniversity of Illinois company?
I did and I said what is thisthing?
(05:03):
And he said listen, you alsohave to go to Australia and
download this thing called awindsock what?
And suddenly when I put the twotogether I had a graphic user
interface and a browser and Idropped Lotus Notes two weeks
later because it was a thingcalled hyperlinks that were the
dock link of Lotus Notes and wewere a web based organization in
the beginning part of 1994.
(05:25):
So way early on, because theinternet back then was AOL on
CompuServe.
But I saw something herebecause I was using it in the
field and I'm like there's a lothere.
So I wanted to write a bookabout it and John Wiley and Sons
turned me down because I said Ijust want to write a book, I
want to have a companion websiteto keep it updated because
things are changing so quick.
So if I want to write a book onthe internet, I want it on the
(05:47):
internet.
And they said no, and I wascomplaining at a trade show, at
a private dinner, and I wassitting next to this guy and we
got along.
I didn't know what he did.
He was a publisher.
He ran RS Means ConstructionCost publications.
He said I'll publish a book andeverything took off from there.
What happened then and thisactually ties into you know
(06:08):
where we are today with thethings like Metaverse and
digital twins and BIM wasextraordinary, because I got on
this public speaking circuit todescribe what the internet was
to the industry worldwide andbecause of that I then had a
book right which was calledcyber places the internet guide
(06:28):
for our industry Pretty thick.
But I then started to take a lotof what the world was giving me
.
At the time there was a lot ofthese things called dot coms,
which was pretty cool, exceptthat this one group came over to
me and they were a desktopbased algorithm.
That was what they called 3Dparametric CAD and I went what
(06:51):
the hell is this?
And they said listen, we haveno money.
I'm like great.
And they said we can give youequity.
So I said all right, and whatwe did was it was called Charles
River Software and I went outand, on behalf of the sales team
, I was like this special agentyou know this advisor that would
go into my friends.
That were all the CIOs and CTOsof all the major architectural
(07:11):
engineering firms in the countryand I pleaded with them just
try it, one seat right.
But we made enough money about$800,000, where Autodesk got so
scared of us that we renamed ourtechnology Revit and we were
bought for $133 million.
That was a good day, a reallygood day.
But what happened was when wewere then involved with the
(07:33):
creation of Building InformationModeling.
At the same time, I wanted toshowcase it, meaning that it
isn't just a production tool.
I wanted to show that thisthing had a digital twin type of
feel to it Because we wereusing it for marketing.
We're using it for fly throughs, for sales, all these different
things around the world.
But my favorite project was in1996, we were advisors to a
(07:59):
group called Screenpoint in SanFrancisco and they were advisors
to a group called Planet Nine.
Planet Nine had a contract withthe San Francisco Giants
baseball team to take the newmodel of their new downtown
stadium after moving fromCandlestick Park and they wanted
to showcase it to differentstakeholders the mayor, city
council, things like this, andthey didn't want to buy an
(08:21):
expensive piece of engineeringsoftware just to view the model.
So I knew a guy down in SiliconValley named Tony Parisi and he
knew some people and we put ourheads together with a brand new
type of markup language, becauseup until then HTML was the 2D
way of doing graphics in abrowser.
He figured out 3D and he calledit VRML virtual reality markup
language and I decided in mybook I think we should talk
(08:44):
about this because we're ablenow to take a browser and
actually showcase what this newworld could look like that we
called the metaverse 1996.
So when I start seeing peoplelike Mark Zuckerberg and others
saying, hey, you know, we'regoing to create the metaverse,
it's like why don't you take alook at my book?
(09:05):
Because we wrote the book onthis stuff and what you're going
to hear are stories like this,and that's that's the majority
of the background, becausethrough that we were able to
sell Revit.
We were able to sell a lot ofcopies of the book.
That not that authors makemoney on the book they don't but
it's getting the word out aboutthis 3D graphic communication
way of how now, as an architect,I can.
(09:25):
I can have a better way of ofdetailing what I want to the
constructors, both the generalcontractor and the
subcontractors, in a moremeaningful way.
So that led us to taking a webbased approach to doing some
project management.
So we created this tool calledbuzz saw that got bought by
Odadesk.
Then, with you know, having twosuccesses with major venture
(09:47):
capitalists out of SiliconValley on Sandhill Road, they
introduced us to another groupthat was doing this thing for
facility management in Las Vegasfor a brand new resort called
the Rio Suites, and they werecomplaining about how, with
facility management, they werespending a lot of money and
redundancy on linens and papergoods and things like that.
(10:08):
So we created tri rega, whichwas bought by IBM for close to
half a billion dollars.
So I'm thinking I'm working onwater like I'm an architect that
makes money.
That's impossible, right.
And suddenly now we're in thisworld of half tech.
But I really wanted to stillhave my feet back on the ground
in this in the field, becauseI've been getting too many
(10:31):
requests for these cool tools,but they were unproven.
So I was introduced by a bunchof different VCs to a bunch of
people.
One of them is a guy named RemyArnaud who's still my friend
today.
We put our heads together and hebecame my CTO because he was
upset with Google, because hewas the creator of Google Earth,
right and he and thedevelopment was actually a roll
(10:54):
up by Google.
It was a group called Intrinsic, which then was rolled up into
Keyhole, which became GoogleEarth, and he was frustrated
saying that you know, theseimages are dumb.
You have to attach data to them, like Street View and all these
other things, to actually makeit worth anything.
But wouldn't be interesting ifwe could actually have the data
(11:15):
drive, the geometry?
So we created our own gamingengine.
We put things like BIMdifferent forms of BIM into this
gaming engine and we createdthis viewer within the browser
that allowed us not just to takea look at one building, but
maybe a neighborhood, maybe adistrict or an entire city.
Ibm saw this and they wanted tobuy it and we went through a
(11:38):
process of being introduced toleadership in China that was
going through this thing calledthe revitalization of urban
environments.
Ibm had coined this marketingthing called the Smarter Planets
, smarter Cities, smarterBuilding Program and I said,
well, isn't this interestingbecause I can take a look at an
(11:59):
entire city through a browser,and that's where the term smart
cities came from.
So it was through IBM'smarketing and our implementation
on a massive scale in China,where we were doing tens of
millions of square kilometersworth of build out both
infrastructure and, moreimportantly, how do you start to
talk to people?
(12:19):
In other words, what do thepeople want?
You just don't build a city andpeople go there because it's
built.
You have to start to take alook at it from the humanistic
standpoint.
So from there, I decided not tosell my software and TDG became
a real estate developmentcompany.
Fast forward to today, we're nowconsidered the world leader
when it comes to the humanisticside.
(12:40):
That takes into account thesustainability of both an
economy, the sustainability ofcommunity and the sustainability
of the environment.
So in a few weeks I'm headed toDubai to be a speaker at COP28
to start to describe how thebuilt environment is not just
about putting carbon out there.
That's not our job.
But there are people out therethat are taking a very strong
(13:04):
look at large projects like myproject in Saudi Arabia called
Niyam the world's largestproject and being able to at
least start the process ofthinking through our processes.
And how did tools like theDigital Twins and BIM start to
be valued beyond just beingconstruction documents, that
they can actually be simulationsand start rethinking how we
(13:26):
build things so that we arelowering carbon footprints and
we are doing the right thing.
So that's a little bit of abackground mind.
I know I went a little overthere, but by 30 second elevator
speech, I'm a New Yorker,that's Irish.
I can't help myself.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
That's awesome, Paul.
Well, thank you so much forthat background.
I'm extremely honored to bespeaking with you, considering
and to use the word architect onanother layer, to for you to be
the architect of multiple ofthese different technologies and
digital transformations thatthe world has undergone over the
last 30 years and to documentand record your knowledge and
(14:03):
share.
That is just an outstandingaccomplishment and really
respect and treasure what you'vebeen able to do with this
industry.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, thank you, and with that, I think that I'll
just need to take a break here.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Welcome back to Future Construct.
I'm Mark Oden, the guest host.
I'm also here with Paul Doherty, who just introduced a little
bit of his background and how heended up founding the Digital
Group and TDG.
We'd love to hear more, paul,after your founding of TDG.
Where did that take you andwhat do you see in current
technology and what do you seefor the future in technology?
(14:41):
Well, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Mark, when we were going through this process
sometimes there's that phraseyou got to stop and smell the
roses every once in a while,because I mean, as you know,
through digital transformation,the work that you guys do,
you're running and gunning right, because there's always new
things that come in, and whatdoes that mean?
How does that provide value,not just to your customers, but
(15:06):
also then, how do you raise theindustry right when we know
where the pain points are?
But the problem has been thatwe've never really gotten into a
movement.
People talk about community allthe time, but communities are
communities.
Movements move, and what I sawjust about 10 years ago was I
(15:27):
needed to repatriate myself.
I was living in China.
I had some great success there.
I lived in India for a bit,moved down to Australia and New
Zealand, and it was time to comehome because I needed to really
take all that great stuff thatwe were doing overseas not just
with the technology, but alsowith supply chains right.
We were able to take Americangoods, products and services
(15:49):
under the watchful eye of theDepartment of Commerce and see
how these innovations wouldthrive or fail in foreign
projects.
One really good thing aboutChina is that if it went
sideways.
There's no lawyers we're prettygood, right.
But what was cool was we calledit the boomerang program, in
that innovations in water,innovations in energy, education
(16:10):
, healthcare, all these thingsthat make up an urban
environment now have a place tohave a sandbox and start to grow
.
So I wanted to bring it back tothe US only because a lot of
the boomerangs they were notreally being positioned properly
in this term of smart cities,because smart cities, people,
(16:30):
it's a big elephant.
Some people are touching thetrunk and they're like this is a
smart city.
It's like me, I'm touching thebutt, you know.
That's why I call smart cities,but it really is about human
centric and data drivenenvironments and that's where
the promise is, because when youthink like that, it's called a
systems approach, meaning thatfrom Leonardo da Vinci I was
going to say Leonardo da Caprio,leonardo da Vinci, he had a
(16:53):
great quote saying thateverything is connected to
everything.
You just have to see it Right.
So I'm still learning how tosee how all of this stuff
intertwines.
Where you know, when we dealwith projects.
I was on a team as a subjectmatter expert with McKinsey and
company that had this project inRiyadh to reposition the entire
(17:14):
country of Saudi Arabia.
So I was part of the team thatcreated Vision 2030.
It's being used to this day andI was responsible for being on
the team that was describing thecity of the future.
It's now called Neon.
It's the world's largestproject and I'm pleased with how
much they're adhering to whatthat overall conceptual plan is.
(17:36):
They have a couple of thingswhere you know I may not agree
with it, but the bottom line isthey're doing it Right.
So when you get into that typeof responsibility, it really
comes into, you know, the worldof showing your best and I think
that's one big message.
I'd love your audience to knowthat don't be afraid, because we
got one shot at this Right andyou may fail, but with failure
(18:00):
there's always learning, andthat's what I find about the
tech community and the techmovement within the AEC market
right now.
There's so many smart kids thatare coming in that have
different types of skill setsfrom the you know from my
generation and they're pushingthe envelope, which is what I
love.
You know where the monolithicworld of you know you must buy
(18:20):
from this publisher and it'sthis type of license and that's
it.
That's kind of going out thedoor, which I love.
I love.
I love these startup type ofthings because they're creating
gems.
The key is, how do you createthese gems and string them
together so it becomes abeautiful necklace?
And that's where we come in.
We have been very, veryfortunate in life.
I am called the walking livingversion of forest gump because
(18:45):
there's certain things that I doand I get introduced to that
the normal person should neverdo it, but I'm into.
I just I'm very lucky, okay,but the energy I think of why we
do things is really based uponhigher level of visions, such as
impact.
So one of the things thatallows us to do this large scale
work is that I'm in with thefinancial industry, have gained
(19:08):
their trust over the years.
So that 10 years ago approachwhere we started this
conversation, imagine 10 yearsof success with payback, except
that it's not under normalfinancial conditions.
With impact investing, you'reeither impacting an individual,
a couple of family, aneighborhood, a district, a
community, a society and theenvironment, and it's in that
(19:31):
pecking order that we take avery healthy responsibility
about learning how to designproperly, because right now,
with the advent of things likeautonomous vehicles right and
that certain jurisdictions noware looking at them as being not
just for individuals, but aspart of a public transportation
(19:51):
system.
Well, that does one big thingyou no longer need a street grid
.
Now you can place buildingswhere they're supposed to be, on
that position on planet Earth.
And maybe it's about makingbuildings closer to each other
in one part of the city becausethey know there's a wind event
that happens going from the seaback up into the mountains.
And when you create that funnel, we're able to put different
(20:15):
types of capturing mechanisms,like tree bill electric, which
is a friction type of thing, onthe outside of the building,
which generates power, right.
So we're thinking throughthings where it's not about a
solar panel, it's not about awindmill, you know, type of
thing.
It's not about that anymore.
We don't know, we don't need tobe discreet, we need to be
integrated, and that's reallywhere the power.
(20:38):
I think of the technologies thatwe're seeing, specifically
things like the digital twin,and when you put it on to a
gaming engine, suddenly we havea new tool, because the
lifecycle of them is reallywhat's important, right?
It's always been seen as the 3DCAD, right, and it's been very
frustrating, quite frankly, forthe majority of people.
(20:59):
The nomenclature is different.
Someone coined the termfamilies, like what?
But we've had to deal with allof that.
But I think what I'm seeing islight at the end of the tunnel,
because when you can emancipatethat 3D construction document
and then put it onto other toolslike gaming engines, now all of
a sudden, we have thisemancipation providing extra
(21:21):
value into facilities managementoperations, into city
management, into utilitymanagement, in ways like we
haven't even thought of yet.
So when I start to see thesegeometries moving, suddenly, I
start to see all the differenttechnologies out there that are
being used in the financialsector, in supply chains and all
(21:42):
this.
I'm going wait a second.
If we've created a beautifulbody, right now BIM is a
mannequin, but if we startputting tools in behind it,
we're now creating vessels,we're creating organs that are
going to be living within thisway of communicating better,
which is in 3D.
So when I take it as an example, with blockchain, we now have a
(22:06):
number of different projectsthat we can point to that are
using what's called smartcontracts.
The smart contracts are not justlike PDFs that everyone agrees.
In those digital signatures,the actual agreement is written
into the code so that the databecomes immutable.
Now all of a sudden we gotsomething, because our entire
industry is based on contracts.
That's why they're calledgeneral contractors.
(22:27):
So when we have thatopportunity to start to say I
trust this piece of data, Itrust that piece of data, we can
have a transaction.
Now all of a sudden we'vefinally hit the truth button,
because the big problem in everyindustry, but particularly in
ours, is no one really trustswhere that comes from.
Sometimes we're building on ahouse of cards just because
(22:48):
people say it's something.
A reference is a record document.
Record documents are supposedto be handed off to the owner so
the facility manager knowswhere stuff is.
There's never been a perfectset of construction documents up
until now.
The VAV box up in the plenumand it's got to be repaired.
I can't tell you how manyfacility managers send their
crew out there.
The guy goes up on the ladderand goes there's no VAV box.
(23:09):
They don't trust what's inthere.
But now with smart contracts,we have a verification system
that these people agreed.
We know where it's at.
You put smart contracts nowinto the flow of BIM.
Now things get very interesting,because you can have a schedule
that is now tied to work andthat work can be then taken with
(23:32):
things like GPS and other typesof geolocation devices that we
require in our jobs.
Now, every piece of equipment,material, appliance that comes
onto our site, the manufacturerhas to say I'm a GM refrigerator
, I'm a GAF roof product andit's costly, just saying that we
(23:55):
tune that and we understandwhere everything is on the site.
Number one.
Number two we can geolocatewhen those things are put into
place but say it's a trust.
The trust is telling us becausethe model is constantly
monitoring that the BIM isactually monitoring that this
thing is now put in place.
We then give 24 hours for thesite superintendent to go out to
(24:16):
see was it put in place in aquality manner.
He hits a button and payment ismade right away.
Now, all of a sudden, we haveworkflow.
Everything's connected toeverything and guess what we're
getting at the end of the day?
A digital asset that's accurate.
We're no longer asking someonearound at the field going did
they install the light switch inthe proper place?
We know where everything'slocated because in real time,
(24:38):
we're capturing the play by playof the installation of the
building and at the end, we knowexactly where everything is.
These are just simple examplesof when you put that into a
world that you can have.
In the same way that the SanFrancisco Giants do not want to
have a proprietary piece ofsoftware just to show their 3D
(24:59):
model their baseball stadium andwe used a browser to do it
we're now, 35 years later, inthe same place.
We're no longer worried about3D BIM when you put it onto that
gaming engine.
You're now creating a virtualworld, and that virtual world
resides in this place called theMetaverse.
The Metaverse doesn't exist yet.
It's starting.
(25:20):
But if you consider that outerspace is there, but it's not
there, there you can't touch it.
There's nothing physical aboutit, but you know it's outer
space, that's the Metaverse.
Once people understand that,that you have to have galaxies
and solar systems and planetsthat then give a human being the
idea that there is places to go.
(25:40):
That's exactly where we're atat this point in the Metaverse,
and that means that digitaltwins are a mirror of reality.
Virtual worlds reside in theMetaverse and it's a better
communications device Once youstick things like Web3
technologies, things like AI,smart contracts, blockchain into
the mix.
So this is the way that we'reseeing the future of
(26:01):
construction and we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
That's fantastic.
Thank you, paul, for theoverview and that actually takes
us into.
You shared with us earlier yoursecond book and I understand
that you're publishing yourninth book called Unlocking the
Metaverse a Guide for the BuiltEnvironment.
Would you share with theaudience a high-level sneak peek
into the book?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Actually, this past April we talked about Smart
Cities and it's up on Amazonright now.
It's doing very well and againit's to give the message out
there.
This book gave the opening forthe Unlocking the Metaverse book
.
It's published by John WileySons, the famous publishing
house in New York.
It is available up on Amazon.
It's rated number one newrelease, which is really cool,
(26:42):
but it'll be available onDecember 12th, so just a little
over a month away.
The book itself is meant toprovide a strategic guide for
the future of our builtenvironment, meaning that
descriptions, like I just said,that one use case of how all
these things come together isalso giving life to different
types of valuations.
Here's a for instance.
(27:05):
We have at the moment going upin Qingdao, china, a virtual
reality theme park, and thatvirtual reality theme park is
going to be online in about twomore quarters, so I would say by
June of next year.
The theme park is not meant toopen up until June of 2025.
(27:25):
So what we're doing is we'retaking construction documents,
we're putting it on to a gamingengine and now we're creating
rules about how you can go visitthe latest games from Epic
Games, from groups like Tencent,who are in charge of the League
of Legends gaming, activision,blizzard All these different
(27:48):
groups almost have pavilionsphysically that are going to be
there.
But we're going to be there.
But we're opening it up a yearahead of time and charging
people certain premiums that toplay the latest game of Fortnite
, do this, do that, and the ideais that we're going to be
generating so much revenueonline before the physical place
opens up that it will reduceour construction loan by 8% on a
(28:11):
$1.6 billion build out.
That's huge.
Now we're starting to show bestpractices about this is what it
means.
This is what it means forpracticality and also how you
build community.
So I'm learning a lot from myson.
He's 13, and there's a peckingorder.
When he grew up, it was allabout Minecraft.
Then he went to Roblox.
(28:31):
Now he's into Fortnite and thatpecking order.
I'm asking questions all thetime because he's the native
with his friends.
They are seamless about theirrelationship as friends.
If they're digital or they'rephysical, they're still the same
people.
But because of that, we have tolearn as the immigrants.
How does that work?
(28:52):
Because all of the work thatwe're doing right now is not
meant for the right now.
It's meant for the generationscoming up, and then also for a
big thing in our industry is howdo we start to attract the
younger generation into theindustry?
Because in the old days it wasthe place where guidance
counselors in high schools andstuff were like, listen, you're
(29:13):
not going to cut it in college,and they dumped people into the
construction industry become aplumber, become a man and it was
always kind of looked down upon.
But, mark, we're in a worldright now where we're worried
about the existence of humanrace.
A lot more people are more keenabout that, climate change, all
this other stuff.
There's only three things thatthe human race needs for
existence and that's food, waterand shelter.
(29:34):
We have a very noble causeEveryone listening to this
podcast.
You have a noble cause that youshould wake up every day with
your head held high Because weare helping protect the human
existence on this planet withthe work that we do.
No matter if you're a plumber,soul practitioner, architect,
you are a corporate leader inour industry.
(29:56):
You should all hold your headsup high.
And that's really where we'restarting to come from, where,
when we deal with our customersand those customers are in the
tens of millions, because thosecustomers are citizens of the
places that we design, whichmeans that we have to have a
higher calling, a higher ideaabout why we do what we do.
(30:21):
One thing is to look at thenobility of what we do.
Another way of looking at it isour industry has been famous for
years of taking a scarcitymindset, meaning that there's a
finite amount of pie and I wantto take as much pie as I can,
and it's almost like a doggy dogworld.
We're coming at it differentlyand I really enjoy when people
get it all over the world whenthey work on a project in Saudi
(30:43):
or in China or in Australia andthey're like we've been waiting
for this and it's calledabundance.
If you come from a mindset ofabundance, things start to get
easier because we now have thetechnologies that can measure
success.
Up until now, it's always beenwell.
We'll see the result at the end.
And did we make money?
Did we do it on time?
I think there's going to bemore micro metrics about how we
(31:05):
start to improve and learn andhave these communications with
each other.
So I'm really, really pleasedto be on this podcast,
particularly because of the workthat you guys do as a core
business.
You guys are enablers, andhaving that type of mindset, I
think, can change the world.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, thank you for your kind words, paul.
We'd love to, as we wrap up theshow, ask you the final
question of the show and as atradition of future Constructor
podcast if you could projectyourself out 25 years and wanted
to have any device, atechnology that would benefit
you personally, what would it beand what would it do?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I think that when we take a look at the constructed
futures of everything that weare doing now, the ultimate goal
and it's something that I soldto the Chinese government and
it's about capturing the essenceof people I don't know if this
(32:04):
kind of sounds like a darkmirror episode, but hear me out
on this With the use of AI, notthe chatbot stuff, that's easy,
the GPT.
Chatgpt that's like 1.0.
It's not that difficult.
It's magical in certain places,but chatbots are not the end,
all but agents are.
(32:26):
Back in 2017, when we pitchedthe idea of this theme park in
China, I was meeting with awhole bunch of Chinese party
leaders and they wanted to knowthis pitch from this American
and I started talking and I washosted by Huawei, by the way,
the big tech company over there,and it was a joint presentation
and they wanted to know whatwas the ultimate goal and the
(32:48):
best value of immersivetechnologies like VR and
augmented technologies like AR,and I said death.
And they were taken aback.
They said well, what do youmean?
And I said, after I'm gonephysically, what the promise is
is that there would be anessence of learned machine
learning that would know mymannerisms, know what I was
(33:10):
going to say, sort of get intothat intelligence agent way of
getting the nomenclature inplace, the repeatability and
understanding how well thatworks, so that maybe my great
grandson could actually have aperson that he can have a
conversation with, that'strusted.
And I said for all of youyou're in the Chinese Communist
(33:31):
Party, there's a ladder system,you can't trust each other A lot
of you can't have friends.
But what would be reallyinteresting is to recreate
Chairman Mao and you could askwhat would Mao do?
So they were blown away.
They signed off on itimmediately.
And that's really where, in 25years, I think that we're going
to be able to capture certainessence so that not from a
(33:52):
standpoint of ego that I want tolive forever no, not that.
But I think sometimes in thegenerational handoffs there are
certain things that have neverbeen said that you wish you had
that extra moment to be able tosay to your son, to your
grandson, great grandson,whoever.
Wouldn't it be interesting tohave, even just even if it's one
way in 25 years and in 100years it becomes two way, where
(34:16):
we can actually build upon theshoulders of giants and be able
to ask those questions so thatit helps the human condition, so
it helps mental health, so ithelps these things.
So that's kind of a visionabout where I'd love to see
things go.
It's not quite as egotisticalas Walt Disney trying to be
frozen forever and he's going towake up in the future.
I think.
Good luck with that.
(34:37):
I'm going to be gone, but theidea is and I think visions,
things like that.
I think people can either takeit or leave it, but the bottom
line is at least explore it,because I think there's a lot of
smart people out there that Iwish I could go back in time and
be able to plug in and get thatinstinctual knowledge, just so
I didn't have to make it so hardand pushing a boulder up the
(34:59):
hill.
So yeah, that's kind of whereI'm seeing where tech can go
that can help the humancondition.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
That's an incredible vision, paul, and I'm
consistently impressed with yourimpact, your positive impact
society on a global level.
It's an outstanding career thatyou've had and, again, I'm
honored that you would sharethis space with us today and
thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Mark just continued success with the podcast of
Huesh Construct and very, verymuch wish you great success with
them.
Designs.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Thank you very much, Paul.
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