Ready to embark on a thrilling journey through the high-tech world of Building Information Modeling (BIM) and Virtual Design and Construction (VDC)? Prepare to gain invaluable insights from our esteemed guest who has been at the forefront of implementing these innovative technologies in the construction industry. They'll be sharing their hands-on experiences, from the highs of tangible benefits to the lows of formidable challenges. As a BIM manager, I'm also going to offer my perspective on managing large-scale projects and how BIM is revolutionizing our working methods.
Keeping up with rapid technological changes can be daunting, and this is particularly true in the construction industry. Our guest, a seasoned professional in project management and construction technology, will shed light on the trials and triumphs of evolving tech. Get ready to peek behind the curtain at our consulting process—from the inaugural meeting to the all-important stakeholder feedback. We'll also discuss the careful navigation required to ensure standardization and company-wide tech adoption, setting the stage for more comprehensive future discussions.
Choosing an implementation partner for BDC and BIM technologies is a critical decision, and we're about to demystify the process. Understanding the problem at hand and leveraging technology to discover solutions is central to our discussion. We'll explore the importance of an external voice to guide and challenge the team, ensuring optimum results. By the end of this episode, you'll have a clearer understanding of how to address pain points and provide effective solutions. We invite you to join us for this captivating episode, as we delve into the fascinating future of construction technology. Buckle up and get ready for an enlightening ride!
Keeping up with rapid technological changes can be daunting, and this is particularly true in the construction industry. Our guest, a seasoned professional in project management and construction technology, will shed light on the trials and triumphs of evolving tech. Get ready to peek behind the curtain at our consulting process—from the inaugural meeting to the all-important stakeholder feedback. We'll also discuss the careful navigation required to ensure standardization and company-wide tech adoption, setting the stage for more comprehensive future discussions.
Choosing an implementation partner for BDC and BIM technologies is a critical decision, and we're about to demystify the process. Understanding the problem at hand and leveraging technology to discover solutions is central to our discussion. We'll explore the importance of an external voice to guide and challenge the team, ensuring optimum results. By the end of this episode, you'll have a clearer understanding of how to address pain points and provide effective solutions. We invite you to join us for this captivating episode, as we delve into the fascinating future of construction technology. Buckle up and get ready for an enlightening ride!
Contact the Future Construct Podcast Produced by BIM Designs, Inc!
- BIM Designs, Inc.: minority-owned, US-based, union-signatory preconstruction technology firm, offering turnkey BIM modeling, laser scanning, coordination management, and other VDC solutions to the AEC industry.
- Schedule a free consultation: sales@bimdesigns.net.
- Subscribe to our weekly blog and our Future Construct Podcast
- Suggest a podcast guest
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chanh Tran (00:03):
Besides from the title and everything, it's
helped with implementation ofnew programs and software to our
users in the office in thefield.
I also work on the operationteam dealing with our process
procedures, training etc.
So this all came about.
Our leadership team it's alwayshad the vision of utilizing
(00:28):
VDCs and BIM at our company fora while now.
But with all the priorities andprojects coming in, everything
can busy.
It's been an ongoing initiativefor about as long as I've been
at LS Black.
So recently there's areintegration of this idea and
(00:52):
thought around BIM and utilizingit.
So they asked me hey, can yougo out there and find us some
consultants that have experiencein building out a BIM team from
beginning to end?
Our goal is in beginning we'regoing to be outsourcing the work
(01:13):
.
Have this partner if they haveinternal drafters and people,
that technician that can do itgood.
If not, do they know people andcan recommend people to work
with us?
Then eventually this consultingwould eventually fade out as
our team grows internally.
(01:33):
So it's high-level view.
That's that.
Then I sent you the visions.
I guess all of the categoriesthat we want to focus on VDC and
DEMON, and that email.
Luke Lightning (01:55):
Thank you.
Ashly Coggins (01:56):
Excellent.
Could you tell me a little bitmore about your background with
BIM, what more specificexperiences and Gotcha.
Chanh Tran (02:08):
So good question.
My background is actually inconstruction.
I started in a field and then Imoved into project management.
I started with my old company.
I used to work for LifetimeConstruction, lifetime Athletic,
lifetime Fitness, if you guysheard of them.
So I worked with them for about10 years and about five years
(02:31):
ago.
We want to integrateconstruction technology into the
way we operate but we just havea really challenge of having
that person that can connecttechnology to reality.
Construction is more of atraditional old school approach
to thing.
It's just slower when it comesto growing.
(02:52):
So they engage me withtechnology.
So I have a little backgroundon BIM, very basic stuff.
I've been part of some BIMexecution plan that we did on
some of our projects.
I've looked at models, how tooperate a model and stuff like
(03:13):
that Not actually build it outbut can drive it in coordination
meetings and stuff like that.
But no, I do not have anydrafting experience or any
actual doing experience of BIM,more of like an oversee or
management level.
Ashly Coggins (03:29):
So, and when you say management level, are you
participating in designcoordination meetings or is it
mostly just referencing themodel in the field, or can you
share?
Chanh Tran (03:45):
a little bit.
Well, both I've done both.
One in pre-construction I'veworked with all these design
teams and our self-contractorskind of lead the meeting to get
everyone on the same page to gothrough those coordination
meeting.
And then we have our draftersand our tech that actually does
the integrations and the classdetection and the fixing.
(04:07):
And then I also, once we get tothe point of production, I've
done meetings withself-contractors on site to kind
of mostly age-back contractorsfor overhead ceilings and stuff
like that in closure to helpfacilitate that piece of work,
above ceiling MVP work, to getthat into production.
(04:32):
But never really went past that.
We never really wrapped it alltogether to send out a complete
as-built package.
We never got to that pointbecause there's always been
section of this as project A andsection B is like project C.
So there's never been on oneproject.
So on one project I just wantedall the design coordination up
front, all the LFIs, all theself-gatherers fast, you can.
(04:56):
And there's another project whothe person that's only driving
the model is our HVACcontractors and I was with the
general contractor.
So I kind of help facilitatethat with them, with the other
self-contractors.
The other self-contractors thatdidn't really have a lot of
firm experience.
So it was a partnership betweenme and our HVAC contract that
(05:20):
kind of drove those meetings andit was mainly just to get the
age-backs equipment up above theceilings, Because that company
policy is we won't buildanything unless we have a proof
model and that was unique for usand that never did and it
worked well.
I said yes for the HVACcontractor.
It worked well.
It was a challenge for some ofthe foaming contractors and the
(05:43):
electric contractors.
Ashly Coggins (05:45):
But your experience with the mechanical
contractor using it that partworked well.
Chanh Tran (05:50):
Yeah, it took us a little bit of time to get used
to, because in past we've alwaysapproved 2D submittals, shop
drawings, stamp it and thenproceed.
This go around, even if we getthat, they wanted a approved
Claxie section model that theyput together before they could
do so it was kind of a different, but it worked out well in the
(06:11):
end.
We didn't have a lot of reworkwhen it comes to HVAC.
Ashly Coggins (06:16):
You did not.
Chanh Tran (06:17):
Yeah, did not.
Ashly Coggins (06:18):
OK, good, awesome , yeah.
So my background isconstruction as well,
construction management.
I went to school in ColoradoState their construction
management program and thenworked for Turner Construction
for a couple of years and thenFleur, which is actually an EPC
Engineering ProcurementConstruction Company, and built
(06:41):
a very large mega project,mostly on the life science side,
and so you don't really have achoice on those projects.
It's complex enough that youhave to use BIM and basically
all the contractors have to useBIM because it's just that level
of complexity and so that's andI kind of touched BIM a couple
(07:02):
of times but on one project wasthe BIM manager for a billion
dollar facility, multiplebuildings.
So I went from knowing nothingabout BIM to knowing all of the
things about BIM, at least inthat point in time, just because
I got to.
When you have five differentprojects or buildings on the
(07:23):
same site and over time you kindof get to rapidly learn from
all your mistakes.
So it was a great opportunityin that sense.
And then mostly on the I'vedone project management, but
(07:43):
also very closely tied toconstruction technology in
general.
So there's the BIM piece,there's the specifically, but
then there's all kinds of otherconstruction tech piece.
So that's what led me to BIMdesigns actually was the
interest in constructiontechnology, and we tend to focus
on the LOD 400, that's wheremost of our clients come from.
(08:04):
But and then there's timeswhere we get to play in other
spaces and so it's always fun to.
It's just it's honestly.
There's so much opportunity andso much rapid change.
It can feel even for myselfthis is all I do, right, but it
still feels like I'm always onmy back foot trying to learn the
(08:27):
new technology, just because itchanges so quickly, and so I'm
super excited about theopportunity.
You're not your experience isnot.
You're not alone in yourexperience.
I think all over the gamutyou've got small companies, very
large companies and folks listskind of similar feedback that
(08:50):
they did this on one project orthis other thing on one project,
but there wasn't thatstandardization or there wasn't
that company-wide adoption onthe construction technology side
.
And so what I wanted to dotoday is meet with you and kind
of give you a high-leveloverview of our typical, the
(09:10):
ways that we typically engagewith clients that need a similar
consulting that you'veidentified, and kind of get your
feedback and see if that youknow matches kind of what you
had in mind.
Chanh Tran (09:24):
Gotcha, that works, thank you.
Ashly Coggins (09:26):
Awesome.
So typically what we would dois we would engage in there's
usually a group meeting, we callit the kickoff meeting, and
there's a particular exercisebecause the person who we're our
counterpart right which I thinkwould be you, our counterpart
(09:48):
may have a list based onfeedback you know, or personal
experience or who knows as thatstarting point of what you're
envisioning and to make surethat we have the full teams
buy-in on the types of problemswe're trying to solve.
We like to start with thatkickoff meeting and we run this
exercise where everybody kind ofbrain dumps all the different
(10:11):
you know solutions or problemsthat they want to solve and then
as a team we kind of prioritizethose and if your list and your
vision is based off of feedbackfrom your team, we would expect
similar results, right, butit's kind of a touch point, it's
a checkpoint.
Maybe there's things that haveshifted, maybe certain
(10:32):
stakeholders weren't included,but it helps us really start set
the tone with the team so thatthey feel that engagement right
from the beginning, that they'reable to contribute their
thoughts or concerns or whatnot.
And then obviously we wouldwork very closely with you to
(10:53):
shape that roadmap, if you will,to just make sure we're aligned
on what you feel is thepriority, because all
stakeholders don't necessarilyhave that visibility right.
But my point is that it's agroup exercise and that really
helps engagement and feedbackand, you know, just kind of
(11:13):
aligning on the overall goal.
Really it just helps on theimplementation side because
people feel bought in from thevery beginning versus a
directive being handed downright.
So once we have that kickoffmeeting then you would have
identified the stakeholdersahead of time and it's usually
(11:34):
we usually like to talk tosomebody from every department.
So on the safety side,detailing side, project
management side, we also like totalk with previous clients, you
know, or end users, dependingon which type of client we're
working with.
So there could be some externalfolks as well to get feedback
(11:55):
from.
And we're usually looking to.
You know what worked well, whatdidn't work well, what
information do you find yourselfneeding and not having?
You know what inefficienciesare you seeing, because it all
seems to relate back toconstruction technology in some
way and more specific to reallyexpected then.
(12:17):
So in that stakeholder feedbackwe kind of usually there's some
themes that come out of thatand it usually acts as a good
check on that initial kickoffmeeting to say, okay, in the way
that the team prioritized thereis that also what we're seeing
in these one-on-one stakeholderinterviews.
(12:39):
And then we have another groupmeeting at the tail end of that
to basically confirm thatroadmap.
So we would have talked withyou offline after that initial
meeting, we would have you know,let you know kind of what that
stakeholder feedback was and soyou would have input going into
(12:59):
that that second group meeting.
And in that second groupmeeting we're basically kind of
presenting this is what we foundright.
So this was the feedbackinitially.
This is kind of this is whatmatched, this is what didn't
match and this is kind of whatwe recommend from a roadmap
perspective and in that theyshould be able to see their
(13:22):
feedback incorporated at somelevel, even if it's on a roadmap
.
You know, on down the road andI'll just give you a quick for
instance sometimes people saytheir starting point is we
really wanna do 5D.
You know that's our hugepriority pain point, whatever.
So sometimes people expect thatto be priority number one.
(13:45):
But depending on where thecompany is as a starting point,
right, it's not priority numberone because there's like three
steps that need to happen beforeyou get to that point right.
So that's kind of the that'sthe type of detail that's laid
out in that roadmap.
Is that these are the thingsthat we're gonna tackle in order
to achieve that first priority.
(14:06):
Does that make sense so far?
Chanh Tran (14:09):
Yep, nope, Awesome.
So my only question is thistypically happens after.
I guess this, for my point isthat this is what we're talking
about right now.
It's kind of like justunderstanding each other more,
but what you're talking about isafter we come to an agreement
(14:30):
and we selected this team as,and then, from that point
forward, Okay, I just wanna makesure.
Ashly Coggins (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This is absolutely because wehave getting a proposal together
that I guess, if what I'mlaying out to you as far as
process, if it didn't match kindof your expectations or what
you feel is needed, then I wouldneed to know that now so that
we incorporate whatever-.
Chanh Tran (14:55):
Gotcha.
Ashly Coggins (14:56):
We need to into the proposal right, which is why
I'm kind of presenting ourtypical.
But obviously there's differentneeds, every client has
different needs and so we canadapt.
But that kind of fundamentallayout that beginning, middle
end of that first phase we foundworks really well in any sort
(15:20):
of organizational changemanagement, whether it's project
controls, bim, doesn't reallymatter what the topic is, it's
the overall approach to yeah.
Chanh Tran (15:29):
I agree, yeah, yeah, gotcha.
So I just wanted to make sure,because Luke and the other
partner I don't remember hisname, mark Mark yeah, so we had
this conversation and kind ofwhat you're talking about is
more of a next step, whichtotally I'm glad we were talking
(15:50):
about this, but for the meetingnext week, I just want to make
sure that you have anunderstanding of that, what it
is.
So, pretty much what we want todo is sit down with some of our
leaders in each team,stakeholders, and they're going
to quickly go through kind oftheir vision for VDCs and BIM
(16:13):
and hopefully by the end of thatmeeting, you can put together
to us a proposal based on thelist that was in that email, and
then what you said makes a lotof sense about meeting with them
again in a group and thenindividually, because you have
to, that's.
I agree that you need to beable to understand how we
operate, not just through onemeeting, but to multiple
(16:35):
meetings and individual meetingsas well, to really understand,
and not only with us, but withour partners from design and
subcontractors, because they'reprobably going to have a
different perspective than aperson who thinks we are what we
are right.
There's certain stuff that andissues and challenges that some
people in my LSC that we can't.
(16:57):
So no, I like the game planAfter we sign up for goals.
I just want to make sure we'renot skipping the part before the
proposal.
Does that kind of make sense?
Ashly Coggins (17:07):
Yes, so it is.
I'm glad that we're doing thatit's.
I always love hearing thefeedback and just trying to
understand what problem they'retrying to solve, and obviously,
the better we understand that,the more accurate our proposal
can be.
We've done this enough times,though that we have a, it's not
necessarily blocking us fromgiving you a proposal.
(17:28):
Okay, right, that type offeedback, because it's sort of
just inherent to the plan, theoverall plan.
But so, yeah, so no issues atall for having that meeting.
Love that we're doing that, andif you needed any sort of
clarity beforehand or if you hadany questions from us, feel
(17:49):
like the team might havequestions.
Then we can also be prepared toanswer those.
Chanh Tran (17:56):
The one thing I would say is our leadership team
is very new to BIM and VDC, soit will be good if you can
somehow use your experience andyour expertise and I'll do the
same to kind of guide themeeting to something that's more
obtainable versus some stuffthat they've visionary 20 years
(18:19):
from now is something that'sreally not applicable to our
business.
At the end of the day, we wantBIM to help improve our profit.
I'm just gonna be straight out.
It's to help improve efficiency, which includes right, which
will bring us more profit, moreprojects and grow the company
(18:39):
right, and sometimes people'svision or the agenda might
always not relate to growing thecompany.
Okay.
So I kind of want to use yourexpertise, based on kind of the
size of our company.
We do 100 mil, 150 mil a year,a lot of federal projects, some
(19:01):
commercial.
So kind of using your expertiseto kind of help guide that
meeting as far as helping themwhat typically other companies
do and what we should do versuswhat they want to do.
Okay, and then from that pointyou can have enough information
to give us a proposal.
Ashly Coggins (19:23):
Yeah, they won't have the idea.
Chanh Tran (19:27):
The idea is it's very similar to that category
that I gave you the 1-5 yearplan or something like that.
Yeah, but those are reallyindustry standards and you can
Google and find those categories.
Ashly Coggins (19:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and those are what I would call
solutions, right, like the mapthat you sent us.
Super helpful to see kind ofwhere your head's at as to what
you feel is important in thetiming of those.
That's great to have going intoany of those meetings and in
that let's see how do I say this.
(20:02):
And ultimately it's still asolution, and you want your
stakeholders to be bought intothe solution, and so usually I
think the first step isidentifying a problem statement,
and you just did that.
Right.
You said, hey, we want to finda way to employ construction
(20:23):
technology in a way that helpsus maximize profitability, right
.
So having that problemstatement and starting out
whether it's this next meetingthat we're in or the first
meeting after a proposal wouldbe agreed to, right, meeting
with that problem statement tokeep people focused, and it's
(20:45):
okay.
I'm used to people throwing outall kinds of solutions that are
like I want to fly to the moon,like crazy things that would be
, that are so far down.
That's okay.
People feel heard because theiridea or their solution to
solving that problem of how tomaximize profitability still
makes it on the roadmap.
Chanh Tran (21:09):
It just may be like on the far end of the roadmap,
right?
I think what you said in thebeginning there is perfect.
I think we should start outwith a meeting saying, hey,
identify a problem that we needto solve.
I think what you just said,what you told me, is perfect.
To kick off the meeting, to setthe expectation how the rest of
the meeting will go, is thatwe're not trying to understand
(21:31):
things that you dream up anddriving road trip over
Thanksgiving or something.
It's something that we canactually apply and see results.
Not this year, next year, butat least we see results and we
have a goal.
Not something you thought ofwhen you were driving six hours
home to Thanksgiving with yourfamily.
Ashly Coggins (21:53):
So what you said?
Chanh Tran (21:53):
is perfect.
Ashly Coggins (21:54):
Oh, good, good.
And if you don't have anotheragenda for the meeting, what I
would actually?
Because I am tempted, justnaturally, when you're getting
all those folks in the room, I'mtempted to jump into that first
step, right where we are doingthat idea dump.
And it's any idea, I mean, it'sjust like word vomit, right?
(22:16):
And if you're not ready to gothere, if you don't want to,
you're not ready for that typeof engagement.
The step before that one, thenI would say it's still helpful
to get their pain points and sokeep it focused on the pain
they're feeling and not asolution, right, so that we get
(22:37):
better alignment going in,because the problem statement
may be slightly different from,you know, maximizing
profitability.
Maybe there's a differentproblem statement we need to
tackle.
And so if we, how does thatsound, if we were to have that
meeting where they could kind ofbrain dump the pain points that
(22:59):
they have, what's creatingissues in their day to day work
life?
What are your thoughts on that?
Chanh Tran (23:09):
Yes and no, because I don't want them to also be a
venting session where they startlooking outside of kind of our
scope, which is what problemdoes BDC and BIM solve?
They might go to someoperational stuff that has
nothing to do with them.
So I would like to I meanunderstanding the problem they
(23:36):
want to solve with them I thinkit's kind of the vision of that
meeting so that it's enough foryou at the end of the day, what
I want to get out of thatmeeting is this team has enough
information so you can help uscome up, that you can come up
with a proposal to help us growor implement BIM right, and
(23:57):
whatever the question you mayneed to ask you can ask.
There's no limit to that.
So, just as I'm thinking rightnow that's kind of where my head
is at is that at the end ofthat meeting I really want you
to have enough information tohave a proposal ready for us.
And if that has to do with youdoing an issue dump where
(24:21):
they're throwing up all kinds ofvisions and stuff at the board
and then you use your experienceto kind of guide them and put
them into a quantum-erotic orderto achieve it, that's fine, I
kind of want to leave that up toyou and the expert.
How have you done it with allthe companies?
Because you have moreexperience than I do and it
comes understanding enough toget a proposal ready.
Ashly Coggins (24:46):
Yeah, honestly, based on what you're describing,
I do think we have enough tohave the proposal, because
you're not describing anythingthat's atypical of a client or a
company.
We would engage with Anythingthat would help me.
The only thing that would helpme dial it in more are those
(25:06):
pain points.
Chanh Tran (25:07):
Okay.
Ashly Coggins (25:09):
I don't know what I thought in case I change on
that.
But if I heard, and honestlywhat I'd be looking for is, is
there a broad consensus on thepain points?
Chanh Tran (25:20):
That's the thing.
That's the thing that I'mafraid might happen, and an hour
meeting might become two hours,because there might be a
disagreement on what the painpoints are, and then one thing
led to another thing.
Ashly Coggins (25:34):
Got it.
Chanh Tran (25:34):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (25:36):
So the beauty of this, and we'll have to figure
out how to do it.
If we're doing it remotely,we'll have to figure out.
I think maybe there's probablysome pre-work where folks could,
because the first thing, what Iwould normally first ask for is
for them to give me all oftheir pain points.
What are the things that justcreate a rub with them that
(25:57):
every time they have to do it orthey need a certain information
or they have to talk toso-and-so or whatever.
What are those points where itjust makes them just go?
I'm so annoyed and what arethose things?
And they could send those to mein advance and I could go ahead
.
And because we won't haveenough time, it's not even time
(26:19):
issue, because I have ways tomanage that piece.
It's more so.
It's harder to do some of thiswhen you're not in person, and
then there's added pressure tomake sure that I'm interpreting
things in real time.
So, having them send and I couldsend an email with this or send
you an email with a specificlanguage for them to create that
(26:43):
list, and then I could come tothem and say, okay, getting
feedback from the team, andunderstand that, working with
Chan, that these are the thingsthat these are the pain points
the team is feeling.
And then usually I spend like aone minute.
A timed it's not debate, or ifthere is a debate it's a very
(27:05):
timed, strict debate, right, soyou've got two minutes to
feedback here, but before I havethe job, because I can be
really tough on people in thosemoments, so before I have the
job, I usually don't try to getinto that.
I think it would more so justbe a recap of this is what we've
heard from the team so far.
Is this, you know, or anysurprises here?
And I can kind of get a senseof that consensus from that
(27:27):
conversation and then we can, wecan prioritize later once we
actually get going with the the,the, the.
After we're past the proposalpoint.
Chanh Tran (27:40):
Gotcha.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have,like the light version of, I
think, what you said I agreewith, but I think that's more of
once we come to an agreementwith each other that we're
moving forward to yellow aspartners.
I think I really want you knowyou to dive in and have those
hard conversations and challengeour leaders to get to that
point.
I just don't think this meetingis totally ready for that.
Ashly Coggins (28:03):
Yeah, I might not get the job.
Chanh Tran (28:06):
The thing is that I don't want to waste your time
right when we're still in theselection process.
Ashly Coggins (28:12):
Yeah yeah, no, okay.
Chanh Tran (28:15):
I want to be fair to everyone, because time is money
, right, and I don't want you todo this and then turns out
there's other things.
You know that we went withsomeone else, blah, blah, blah.
Right, I don't know what thereason is, but I just want you
to have enough information toget the proposal and then we can
, that leaders can make adecision on who to move forward
(28:35):
with.
And from that point on, I agreewith you 100%.
We need, we need to go to thatgranular level to get to
understand what we really needand the problem that we're
trying to solve.
Okay, we're doing thetechnologies to solve a problem,
right, right, and at some timewe don't understand what that
problem is, unless we have anoutside voice challenging us on
(28:59):
what those problems are.
Ashly Coggins (29:01):
Absolutely yeah.
And when you speak to theselection process, what is your
decision criteria?
Chanh Tran (29:10):
I'm not trying to hide information from you.
I actually don't know.
Okay, I actually do not know, Iknow.
Talking to our leadership team,I think it's about finding the
right partner, and for us, forthem too, it's not only the
(29:32):
resources, but have you donethis before?
I think that's the other bigcut here, for have you
successfully shown that you'vedone this with other best
construction companies beforetoo?
Then I'm pretty sure, before weselect, there's going to be
another meeting where, mostlikely, one of our leaders will
(29:55):
probably lead that meeting.
They go through like aninterview process.
Really, my thought behind thiswhole process is okay, I meet
individually with theconsultants to give them overall
view of what we need and thenhave a meeting with our actual
leader.
You have enough information tocome up with a proposal.
(30:18):
Then, after that, I'm prettysure there'll be an interview
process and then a selection.
Does that sound fair, because Idon't want to use too much of
your time either.
Ashly Coggins (30:33):
No, that makes sense to me, because if the
decision when we submit aproposal, who would you say the
decision maker is for decidingwhether whoever it is that's
submitting proposal which one?
Chanh Tran (30:50):
It'll be a team of probably me, pain or VP of
operations and our VP ofbusiness development, because,
at the end of the day, everyother team you learn that
meeting coming up next week orthe week after you meet with our
pre-con team, the head of ourpre-con, you meet with the head
(31:13):
of estimating, you meet with ourbusiness development VP, you
meet with the operation VP, thismarketing.
There's our corporate controlwhich controls our technology
and accounting.
But at the end of the day,those accounting, it, estimating
(31:34):
, we all fall up to VP, which isVP of business development and
VP of operations.
Then the interviewer'sexpulsion will be a little bit
smaller but at the end of theday, those are the decision
makers at that level.
Ashly Coggins (31:58):
Okay, excellent, in that case, I appreciate the
opportunity to be in the roomand hear.
That cements my feel that Iwouldn't like to hear from them
if the same folks that aremaking the decisions are going
to be in the room are roughlythe same folks.
Chanh Tran (32:18):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (32:18):
I think, making sure I understand their pain
points, because that way I canmake sure the proposal reflects
that and they feel heard.
Chanh Tran (32:25):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (32:26):
I think that would be really important.
Then it would be helpful if youcould give some thought, maybe
get with the team to just try tounderstand.
Is it about exhibiting thatpast performance and what does
(32:48):
the right partner look like?
You spoke to finding the rightpartner.
What is that right partner?
What traits does that rightpartner exhibit?
That would be really helpful tous just to make sure.
Just honestly, make sure we arethe right fit.
Depending on what you define asthe right fit, it may not be
(33:09):
the right fit and maybe we knowthat before we even get to the
proposal.
I sense that it definitelycould be for sure just in the
interactions that Luke haddescribed.
But I think getting moredefinition around that would be
helpful just to making sure thatwe have what we are putting
(33:29):
together is meeting your team'sexpectations.
Chanh Tran (33:34):
Yeah, gotcha, I guess you have more of a actual
questions, or do you want us to?
Just because I honestly I don'tknow if they know the answer to
that, because this is somethingthat's new to a lot of us.
I think it might be based onthe proposal, what's in the
(34:03):
proposal, how well youunderstand the company, but the
thing is there's always going tobe that phase two, which is we
define a partner and you'regoing to come in and spend the
next I don't know how manymonths understanding who we are.
A lot of stuff right now isgoing to be based on your resume
, really.
Ashly Coggins (34:23):
Yeah, it sounds like that, for sure.
Chanh Tran (34:27):
Yeah, if I can answer that question right now
is what I would say Right now.
For me, it's like interviewingsomeone to join our company.
We don't know until we know.
All we can do is look at theresume at that point and decide
who we want to interview with.
Ashly Coggins (34:42):
Yeah, no, that's super helpful.
I'm glad I asked that questionbecause I'm glad that you're
offering such transparency aswell, because normally we would
focus our proposal on basicallysaying this is what we're going
to do for you.
We don't spend a lot of timecapturing what we've done in the
(35:03):
past.
But, knowing that that'simportant, that you'll want to
be able to see that Superhelpful because I can make sure,
whether it's part of theproposal or presentation or a
conversation, I can make surethat we are able to show you
Similar engagements that we'vedone and how those are forked
out.
Chanh Tran (35:23):
Yeah, Then I sent the email.
I sent the different categories, that we want them, but I also
sent the second half of it.
I know with our VP of operationhe put that part together.
I know that's important to himmaking sure that the proposal
include all those items.
Ashly Coggins (35:49):
Would you say for the team that we'd be meeting
with?
Has that what you sent us?
Has that been pretty muchsocialized with all of them, or
is it going to be a surprise toany of them?
Chanh Tran (35:59):
No, because the five-year plan has been talked
about for like 12 months now.
It's something they've all seenthe bullet points of consultant
service we're looking for.
So that was it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.
So that 12 bullet point issomething I know of VP of
(36:21):
operation really wants to bepart of the proposal.
Ashly Coggins (36:29):
Luke the bullet points.
Those were on the other screenwe looked at right.
Chanh Tran (36:33):
Yeah, the email I sent, I think, last Friday.
Yeah, the test file is what weput together of needs and wants
with BIM, then the bullet pointsof what we're looking for in
our consultant service.
I know what the resume wetalked about.
Luke Lightning (36:54):
Do you want me to pull them up real quick,
Ashley?
I have the email here.
Ashly Coggins (36:57):
Yeah, Because if you feel like that's well
socialized with the groupalready, that's essentially
probably the same feedback Iwould hear from the pain points.
I would imagine I'm justthinking on the fly here but
probably what it makes sense todo pull up the five-year plan
(37:19):
real quick, and then we'll comeback to this part.
Luke Lightning (37:21):
Sure Should be here here.
Ashly Coggins (37:24):
Yeah, so probably what I would.
Let's see I may end up having.
When Luke and I looked at thisyesterday, it made sense.
Probably my only question I hadin that meeting is why five
(37:46):
years to do this?
What's stopping you from doingthis in three years?
Chanh Tran (37:52):
That's what we don't know.
Okay, this list right here isbased on the knowledge that we
have internally right now.
Okay, and it might be wrong, Ican tell you that, okay, we
don't have an expert BIM personthat has done this for a company
before, when they started atzero and grew it into a part of
(38:16):
the process and part of the waya company conducts business and
construction.
I don't have the experience.
I don't think anyone else inour company has the experience.
They might say they have, but Idon't believe we do, and I'm
just being transparent with you.
Right, some say they do, butwhen I talk to them they don't.
So this is based on that.
So there's no saying that, oh,this can't be done in a year, we
(38:41):
don't have the experience.
So we were being veryconservative and I thought, yeah
, so does that kind of answeryour question?
Yeah, absolutely.
This thing can all be like usingyour expert opinion and you
telling us that, hey, maybefabrication and mechwood design
can be done in three years ifyou do this and this and this.
So we're open for it, whenwe're just looking for a partner
(39:03):
that's really want to help usgrow to that point understanding
that they will be phased out ata certain point.
Ashly Coggins (39:10):
Yes, yeah, no, we love being phased out.
Yeah, I get bored if I have tostay around too long.
Yeah, so I think that it'sdefinitely a good fit from that
standpoint.
But, yeah, and it depends likethe timeline, some organizations
, the timeline this would beoverachieving for some
(39:33):
organizations because they'rethey really struggle to make
decisions or they're reallybought into their current
processes or any number ofthings.
Other organizations, they couldprobably do this in two to
three years, no problem.
And so it really just doesdepend on the team.
So I probably I'll probably havesome questions around that that
(39:54):
would help me get a feel forhow quick the team could,
because that was my gut feel.
Is that the team, that it couldbe, that it's a the team
legitimately needs this muchtime just for the organizational
change piece.
And then there's a couple, andso I would.
I'd have questions around likehow do you do it now?
(40:15):
Like the layout, how is thatdone now?
And, particularly with theproblem statement you laid out,
how do you see that that wouldhelp your profit margin?
Right, if you could maximize oroptimize the way that you do
layout, how would that help you?
Chanh Tran (40:36):
Yeah, no, that's kind of where the subject matter
expert can answer that questiona lot better than I can, right?
Ashly Coggins (40:44):
now.
Chanh Tran (40:45):
Yeah, there'll be another one.
Yeah, we'll have a director ofestimating will be there.
Director of field operationwill be there as well.
So we're going to have a lot ofour mid-management and above
people that will be there, andthat's why I kind of it's kind
of more people than I want to,but I don't have a choice.
(41:07):
But that's why I kind of wantto use your expertise to kind of
guide the meeting, but withoutgoing into in depth, like we
already agreed to ourpartnership enough, so you have
information where we caneffectively navigate the meeting
, where you can have a proposalby the end of the meeting enough
(41:29):
information to get a proposalby the end of the meeting
without going way into depth.
Like we already signed you guysup, that kind of makes sense and
we're kind of on the same pageon that.
Ashly Coggins (41:42):
Yeah, absolutely To be honest with you, just to
give you some feedback, you'realready the fact that you'll
have a roadmap and that you'vebeen talking about this for 12
months.
You're already really far aheadof a lot of people that we
start engagements with.
They don't even have this list.
So you've already made a lot ofprogress and the next step is
(42:07):
just vetting the list, reallyfiguring out what tweaks need to
be made, either because ofcapability or priority, or there
are a couple of differentfactors there.
But you'll have done a lot ofgreat work already, even without
a consultant, so that'ssomething to celebrate for sure.
I probably will start themeeting with that
(42:29):
acknowledgement to the team,because that is really helpful.
That's why I already have somuch clarity of what's needed
for the proposal just from this,so I can focus that meeting and
just kind of asking somequestions specific around this
and then managing the time in away that we don't get stuck into
(42:49):
anything, any one specificthing, and focus on whatever
clarity that will improve theproposal.
Chanh Tran (42:59):
Gotcha and then.
So, as of right now, what I'vetold them this is what I told
them before I even talked toanyone.
It's like kind of the meetingis based on.
So marketing, what is yourvision for BIM Estimating what
is your vision for BIM Fueloperation?
What is your vision for BIM?
Is that the right agenda or doyou have something else in mind?
(43:22):
Because my agenda right now isjust going down each team and
have them lay out what they want.
What does good look like inthem?
That's the question I laid outto them and I don't know if
that's the right approach.
I'm leaning on your expertisehere.
Is that the right agenda or doyou want to go through this list
(43:44):
?
Ashly Coggins (43:48):
Typically I would really push off solutions and
even this is a solution Becauseit's so easy to argue about the
solution but most people andit's very easy to find consensus
when it comes to the problem orthe pain point.
Understanding those pain pointshelp me understand.
(44:11):
Is this the right list?
So, for example, if I were togo into that meeting and just
say, okay, estimating, tell mewhat your biggest pain points
are in estimating or operations.
What are your biggest painpoints?
Say, estimating, says, oh, mybiggest pain point is I have no
idea what benchmarking I shoulduse or what our average,
(44:37):
whatever it is, then I'm goingto look at this and I'm going to
because I see proposals thereand I see question mark.
My question would be there arelots of areas that BIM can help
in order to provide thatbenchmarking or to complement
(44:59):
that benchmarking right toenable the benchmarking, but I
don't see that listed as an item.
So they may have benchmarkingsettled.
In that case, I want to knowmore to make sure that the BIM
plan basically executes in theway that they've already had set
up.
So I really do think it is,rather than, what solution do
(45:24):
you see?
Because they may not know, butthey definitely would be able to
speak to the pain points theyhave.
Chanh Tran (45:29):
Okay, so you want to focus more on the pain points?
Ashly Coggins (45:35):
I really do what I've observed in the past.
When you jump to the solutionpiece, I'd even be hesitant to
pull this up to share it withthe team, because it just
becomes really easy to debatethe solution.
Chanh Tran (45:52):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Okay, no, that changed mymindset.
No, I like the idea If you wantto approaches as one of the
pain points and then have youprovide us what the solution
looks like.
Yeah, no, that does make sense.
Ashly Coggins (46:12):
Well, and, believe me, I love coming up
with solutions all by myself ina vacuum.
But the approach we take isfirst to build that
collaboration to basicallyfacilitate the team to create
their own solution, Because I'dhave the same solution probably
(46:32):
for everybody, but it's notalways the right fit based on
that organization.
It's more so we're facilitatingthe process to help the team
get to the solution.
Then we're able to point somethings like okay, you can do
that.
Here's some pros and cons tothat.
Ultimately, if the team needsthis to weigh in, we have some
(46:53):
clients that say, look, we haveno idea at all whatsoever.
You can ask us, but we're notgoing to know the answer.
I still always ask Okay, Thenultimately, if I may need to
make that decision because Ithink it's the right fit for
what they are running into, thenthat's not a problem.
But collaboration is definitelya focus of ours in the process.
Chanh Tran (47:17):
Okay, gotcha.
Okay, then, based on how I haveit in my head right now, based
on our conversation today, wewant to start out with you
explaining we're here to whatthe statement that you made
earlier I forgot what you said,I can't wait for a word, but to
(47:38):
understand our pain points ofeach one of those teams and then
, from that point on, I guess,do we go through this list.
Ashly Coggins (47:53):
Let's see In that meeting is an hour.
Chanh Tran (47:55):
It's up to you.
I didn't put a time to it.
That's my next question afterwe have an over-high-level view
of the agenda.
It's like how much time do youneed?
Ashly Coggins (48:07):
I would start with an acknowledgement to the
team.
Set a common vision.
What are we trying to achieve?
A lot of times, that's theproblem statement.
We want to figure out how youcan incorporate construction
technology to improve yourprofit margin.
In order to do that, I want tocheck in with everybody to
(48:28):
understand their pain points.
What are their biggest hurdles?
They feel and not everybody canspeak to that specific problem
statement.
Pre-construction, for example,may not be able to.
I'll give that a little bit ofthought and dial the common
vision in.
(48:48):
But then I would go around toeach of the departments and I
can ask them their pain points.
Typically I ask them to writeit down on stickies because it
can get pretty lengthy.
Some people like to talk andit'll get a lot of time with a
couple of people.
(49:08):
It would be good if they cameprepped with those, if they
could share them in advance,because then I can maximize the
time in finding consensusbetween the groups.
Chanh Tran (49:22):
Is there a limit to what you want to put within
three or five pinpoints, or doyou want them to have an
open-ended?
Ashly Coggins (49:30):
Yeah, no, I like three to five.
We'll do the open-ended afterwe do the engagement.
That's where they can put allthe pain points they ever want,
but in this one, yeah, I thinkit makes sense to limit three to
five.
If they could send those inadvance, then what I'll do is
based on the feedback.
I won't necessarily put this on, the wouldn't necessarily show
(49:54):
this, but the questions I askwould be very much informed by
what's showing up here and whatI'm seeing in their comments.
If I see complete consensusacross the board, then I can
show this right from the get-goRight.
Chanh Tran (50:11):
Got you.
Yeah, Right now, what I have isintroductions, problem
statement.
And you want to go by teams, byindividuals.
Ashly Coggins (50:23):
It's actually.
If they could send the problemstatement in advance.
Okay yeah, then they couldalways read those aloud.
We can have them read their topthree.
Chanh Tran (50:37):
Okay, problem statement.
Then the pinpoints.
Luke Lightning (50:44):
Are you saying problem statements are the same
as pain points, Ashley.
Chanh Tran (50:48):
Yeah, that's where I'm trying to wrap.
Is that one thing, or is that?
Are you looking for a sense ofthe company's problem statement
of why we need them and then goon to the pain points of each
individual teams?
Or is each of your teamssupposed to come up with one
statement of the problem andthen the pinpoints?
(51:10):
Or do we just skip thestatement problems, go straight
to the pain points?
Ashly Coggins (51:15):
So we'll do introductions, I'll do an
acknowledgement, we'll set awhat we call set a common vision
.
So what are we trying toachieve from this?
Okay, then pain points, and ifI get their pain points in
advance, then we should be ableto build that problem statement
closed with the problemstatement.
Okay, I would, because if I gettheir pain points in advance,
(51:43):
I'm still going to havequestions.
So we'll build in when they'rediscussing their pain points,
they'll present them and then Ithink we just need a little bit
of time for me to ask questionsand then the answer them.
Chanh Tran (52:00):
So what are you looking to define in the common
statement from us?
So I just want to prep our teamfor it, so that we're not
fumbling around that agenda.
Ashly Coggins (52:14):
If I get the pain points in advance, I don't know
that they do need to create aproblem statement.
Chanh Tran (52:20):
Okay.
Ashly Coggins (52:22):
I think I would present a problem statement
based on the pain points.
Chanh Tran (52:27):
Okay, so you would present that part I got you.
Ashly Coggins (52:30):
And then get their feedback to make sure that
I heard them.
Chanh Tran (52:35):
Okay, got you.
Okay, that makes sense now.
Thanks for doing that.
Ashly Coggins (52:43):
Yeah, no problem.
Chanh Tran (52:44):
I appreciate that that helps a lot.
Ashly Coggins (52:48):
Okay, good.
Luke Lightning (52:49):
I just want to be mindful.
I think Chan has them twoo'clock in four minutes Okay.
Chanh Tran (52:53):
Oh, yeah, I do yeah.
Luke Lightning (52:56):
So, Chan, sorry, should we schedule this meeting
offline instead of right now?
I was thinking we'd take sometime to schedule it now, but
what do you yeah let's scheduleit offline I have to look at the
calendars too.
Chanh Tran (53:11):
Okay, but based on this meeting, it seems like I
have some homework to do withthe team, so probably next week
is not a good week anymore.
It's probably be the first weekof December, okay, great.
Because a lot of people are noteven working this week, so I
can't help anyone and I'mthinking at least an hour.
Luke Lightning (53:32):
Okay, does that sound right, ashlee?
Chanh Tran (53:34):
Yeah, whatever time you need.
If you need an hour and a half,let me know.
I just need to know in advance.
Luke Lightning (53:40):
Should we do an hour and a half and then, if we
don't need it, we could just-.
Ashly Coggins (53:42):
Yeah, since we're doing introductions, yeah,
let's do an hour and a half.
Luke Lightning (53:45):
Okay, oh, I think you lost them.
Uh-oh, maybe I don't know if hemeant to do that or it looked
like he was I don't know if Ican call him back in actually.
Ashly Coggins (54:00):
It's okay, we can follow up with that piece,
right Okay?
Luke Lightning (54:06):
Oh, he's trying to get back in.
Okay, hey Chan.
Chanh Tran (54:12):
Hey, it's all right.
My laptop died even though itwas plugged in, no problem.
My battery's just working, so Idon't know why my laptop died,
so I have to call you on myphone.
Luke Lightning (54:21):
No problem, teams sucks the energy out of my
laptop.
I don't know if you're on a Mac, but-.
Chanh Tran (54:26):
No, we're on a PC, but yeah, I don't know what
happened.
Luke Lightning (54:30):
Okay, all right.
Chanh Tran (54:31):
But sorry, the last thing I heard was an hour and a
half for now, and then something, something, and then it just
died.
Luke Lightning (54:38):
Okay, so I was just saying let's schedule it
for an hour and a half and thenif we don't need it, we can call
get the time back.
Chanh Tran (54:45):
Okay, gotcha.
No, I know I really appreciateyou helping define the agenda.
That's really helpful.
It's just really nice to knowthere's expertise in guiding
this process.
I really appreciate it.
I know the reason why we'redoing this.
I'm being honest we just don'thave the expertise.
We just don't.
Ashly Coggins (55:06):
Absolutely.
It's honestly facilitating thistype of thing is really
challenging.
It's something I really lovedoing, but most clients, most
companies don't have theexpertise.
Chanh Tran (55:17):
Yeah, it's just that we just have a lot of people
who's experienced pieces andpieces of it and like, oh, this
is what we want, and this iswhat we want, oh, this is cool
to have.
But then this is how it'sreally challenging putting it
all into a true timeline andorganizing it, and we just don't
have that expertise.
So I mean, we have a lot ofopinions.
I have my opinion about whatyou put it in the next guy.
(55:38):
I have opinion and I can tellyou it's not a line.
So, this is nice.
No, I appreciate it.
Thank you for the conversation.
Thank you for your time.
If I don't talk to you again,have a happy Thanksgiving.
Luke Lightning (55:52):
Yeah, I'll follow up with you by email,
shannon, and then we can try toaim.
Maybe we could just putsomething like tentative on the
calendar so it's blocked off forthe four of us.
So I think Marco will want tobe here too, if he can, and then
at least we have a hold, andthen if it doesn't work, we can
always move it around.
Chanh Tran (56:09):
Okay, perfect.
And then I got some homework todo with our leadership team.
Luke Lightning (56:14):
Good luck with that.
All right, shannon, thanks alot.
Thanks again for theopportunity.
Hopefully see you meet you inperson sometime in Minneapolis.
Chanh Tran (56:24):
Okay, definitely, thank you.
Luke Lightning (56:25):
All right, take care.
Okay, bye, thank you, thank you, Thank you, thank you, thank
(59:54):
you, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you,
(01:02:32):
thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you.
Besides from the title and everything, it's
helped with implementation ofnew programs and software to our
users in the office in thefield.
I also work on the operationteam dealing with our process
procedures, training etc.
So this all came about.
Our leadership team it's alwayshad the vision of utilizing
(00:28):
VDCs and BIM at our company fora while now.
But with all the priorities andprojects coming in, everything
can busy.
It's been an ongoing initiativefor about as long as I've been
at LS Black.
So recently there's areintegration of this idea and
(00:52):
thought around BIM and utilizingit.
So they asked me hey, can yougo out there and find us some
consultants that have experiencein building out a BIM team from
beginning to end?
Our goal is in beginning we'regoing to be outsourcing the work
(01:13):
.
Have this partner if they haveinternal drafters and people,
that technician that can do itgood.
If not, do they know people andcan recommend people to work
with us?
Then eventually this consultingwould eventually fade out as
our team grows internally.
(01:33):
So it's high-level view.
That's that.
Then I sent you the visions.
I guess all of the categoriesthat we want to focus on VDC and
DEMON, and that email.
Luke Lightning (01:55):
Thank you.
Ashly Coggins (01:56):
Excellent.
Could you tell me a little bitmore about your background with
BIM, what more specificexperiences and Gotcha.
Chanh Tran (02:08):
So good question.
My background is actually inconstruction.
I started in a field and then Imoved into project management.
I started with my old company.
I used to work for LifetimeConstruction, lifetime Athletic,
lifetime Fitness, if you guysheard of them.
So I worked with them for about10 years and about five years
(02:31):
ago.
We want to integrateconstruction technology into the
way we operate but we just havea really challenge of having
that person that can connecttechnology to reality.
Construction is more of atraditional old school approach
to thing.
It's just slower when it comesto growing.
(02:52):
So they engage me withtechnology.
So I have a little backgroundon BIM, very basic stuff.
I've been part of some BIMexecution plan that we did on
some of our projects.
I've looked at models, how tooperate a model and stuff like
(03:13):
that Not actually build it outbut can drive it in coordination
meetings and stuff like that.
But no, I do not have anydrafting experience or any
actual doing experience of BIM,more of like an oversee or
management level.
Ashly Coggins (03:29):
So, and when you say management level, are you
participating in designcoordination meetings or is it
mostly just referencing themodel in the field, or can you
share?
Chanh Tran (03:45):
a little bit.
Well, both I've done both.
One in pre-construction I'veworked with all these design
teams and our self-contractorskind of lead the meeting to get
everyone on the same page to gothrough those coordination
meeting.
And then we have our draftersand our tech that actually does
the integrations and the classdetection and the fixing.
(04:07):
And then I also, once we get tothe point of production, I've
done meetings withself-contractors on site to kind
of mostly age-back contractorsfor overhead ceilings and stuff
like that in closure to helpfacilitate that piece of work,
above ceiling MVP work, to getthat into production.
(04:32):
But never really went past that.
We never really wrapped it alltogether to send out a complete
as-built package.
We never got to that pointbecause there's always been
section of this as project A andsection B is like project C.
So there's never been on oneproject.
So on one project I just wantedall the design coordination up
front, all the LFIs, all theself-gatherers fast, you can.
(04:56):
And there's another project whothe person that's only driving
the model is our HVACcontractors and I was with the
general contractor.
So I kind of help facilitatethat with them, with the other
self-contractors.
The other self-contractors thatdidn't really have a lot of
firm experience.
So it was a partnership betweenme and our HVAC contract that
(05:20):
kind of drove those meetings andit was mainly just to get the
age-backs equipment up above theceilings, Because that company
policy is we won't buildanything unless we have a proof
model and that was unique for usand that never did and it
worked well.
I said yes for the HVACcontractor.
It worked well.
It was a challenge for some ofthe foaming contractors and the
(05:43):
electric contractors.
Ashly Coggins (05:45):
But your experience with the mechanical
contractor using it that partworked well.
Chanh Tran (05:50):
Yeah, it took us a little bit of time to get used
to, because in past we've alwaysapproved 2D submittals, shop
drawings, stamp it and thenproceed.
This go around, even if we getthat, they wanted a approved
Claxie section model that theyput together before they could
do so it was kind of a different, but it worked out well in the
(06:11):
end.
We didn't have a lot of reworkwhen it comes to HVAC.
Ashly Coggins (06:16):
You did not.
Chanh Tran (06:17):
Yeah, did not.
Ashly Coggins (06:18):
OK, good, awesome , yeah.
So my background isconstruction as well,
construction management.
I went to school in ColoradoState their construction
management program and thenworked for Turner Construction
for a couple of years and thenFleur, which is actually an EPC
Engineering ProcurementConstruction Company, and built
(06:41):
a very large mega project,mostly on the life science side,
and so you don't really have achoice on those projects.
It's complex enough that youhave to use BIM and basically
all the contractors have to useBIM because it's just that level
of complexity and so that's andI kind of touched BIM a couple
(07:02):
of times but on one project wasthe BIM manager for a billion
dollar facility, multiplebuildings.
So I went from knowing nothingabout BIM to knowing all of the
things about BIM, at least inthat point in time, just because
I got to.
When you have five differentprojects or buildings on the
(07:23):
same site and over time you kindof get to rapidly learn from
all your mistakes.
So it was a great opportunityin that sense.
And then mostly on the I'vedone project management, but
(07:43):
also very closely tied toconstruction technology in
general.
So there's the BIM piece,there's the specifically, but
then there's all kinds of otherconstruction tech piece.
So that's what led me to BIMdesigns actually was the
interest in constructiontechnology, and we tend to focus
on the LOD 400, that's wheremost of our clients come from.
(08:04):
But and then there's timeswhere we get to play in other
spaces and so it's always fun to.
It's just it's honestly.
There's so much opportunity andso much rapid change.
It can feel even for myselfthis is all I do, right, but it
still feels like I'm always onmy back foot trying to learn the
(08:27):
new technology, just because itchanges so quickly, and so I'm
super excited about theopportunity.
You're not your experience isnot.
You're not alone in yourexperience.
I think all over the gamutyou've got small companies, very
large companies and folks listskind of similar feedback that
(08:50):
they did this on one project orthis other thing on one project,
but there wasn't thatstandardization or there wasn't
that company-wide adoption onthe construction technology side
.
And so what I wanted to dotoday is meet with you and kind
of give you a high-leveloverview of our typical, the
(09:10):
ways that we typically engagewith clients that need a similar
consulting that you'veidentified, and kind of get your
feedback and see if that youknow matches kind of what you
had in mind.
Chanh Tran (09:24):
Gotcha, that works, thank you.
Ashly Coggins (09:26):
Awesome.
So typically what we would dois we would engage in there's
usually a group meeting, we callit the kickoff meeting, and
there's a particular exercisebecause the person who we're our
counterpart right which I thinkwould be you, our counterpart
(09:48):
may have a list based onfeedback you know, or personal
experience or who knows as thatstarting point of what you're
envisioning and to make surethat we have the full teams
buy-in on the types of problemswe're trying to solve.
We like to start with thatkickoff meeting and we run this
exercise where everybody kind ofbrain dumps all the different
(10:11):
you know solutions or problemsthat they want to solve and then
as a team we kind of prioritizethose and if your list and your
vision is based off of feedbackfrom your team, we would expect
similar results, right, butit's kind of a touch point, it's
a checkpoint.
Maybe there's things that haveshifted, maybe certain
(10:32):
stakeholders weren't included,but it helps us really start set
the tone with the team so thatthey feel that engagement right
from the beginning, that they'reable to contribute their
thoughts or concerns or whatnot.
And then obviously we wouldwork very closely with you to
(10:53):
shape that roadmap, if you will,to just make sure we're aligned
on what you feel is thepriority, because all
stakeholders don't necessarilyhave that visibility right.
But my point is that it's agroup exercise and that really
helps engagement and feedbackand, you know, just kind of
(11:13):
aligning on the overall goal.
Really it just helps on theimplementation side because
people feel bought in from thevery beginning versus a
directive being handed downright.
So once we have that kickoffmeeting then you would have
identified the stakeholdersahead of time and it's usually
(11:34):
we usually like to talk tosomebody from every department.
So on the safety side,detailing side, project
management side, we also like totalk with previous clients, you
know, or end users, dependingon which type of client we're
working with.
So there could be some externalfolks as well to get feedback
(11:55):
from.
And we're usually looking to.
You know what worked well, whatdidn't work well, what
information do you find yourselfneeding and not having?
You know what inefficienciesare you seeing, because it all
seems to relate back toconstruction technology in some
way and more specific to reallyexpected then.
(12:17):
So in that stakeholder feedbackwe kind of usually there's some
themes that come out of thatand it usually acts as a good
check on that initial kickoffmeeting to say, okay, in the way
that the team prioritized thereis that also what we're seeing
in these one-on-one stakeholderinterviews.
(12:39):
And then we have another groupmeeting at the tail end of that
to basically confirm thatroadmap.
So we would have talked withyou offline after that initial
meeting, we would have you know,let you know kind of what that
stakeholder feedback was and soyou would have input going into
(12:59):
that that second group meeting.
And in that second groupmeeting we're basically kind of
presenting this is what we foundright.
So this was the feedbackinitially.
This is kind of this is whatmatched, this is what didn't
match and this is kind of whatwe recommend from a roadmap
perspective and in that theyshould be able to see their
(13:22):
feedback incorporated at somelevel, even if it's on a roadmap
.
You know, on down the road andI'll just give you a quick for
instance sometimes people saytheir starting point is we
really wanna do 5D.
You know that's our hugepriority pain point, whatever.
So sometimes people expect thatto be priority number one.
(13:45):
But depending on where thecompany is as a starting point,
right, it's not priority numberone because there's like three
steps that need to happen beforeyou get to that point right.
So that's kind of the that'sthe type of detail that's laid
out in that roadmap.
Is that these are the thingsthat we're gonna tackle in order
to achieve that first priority.
(14:06):
Does that make sense so far?
Chanh Tran (14:09):
Yep, nope, Awesome.
So my only question is thistypically happens after.
I guess this, for my point isthat this is what we're talking
about right now.
It's kind of like justunderstanding each other more,
but what you're talking about isafter we come to an agreement
(14:30):
and we selected this team as,and then, from that point
forward, Okay, I just wanna makesure.
Ashly Coggins (14:36):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
This is absolutely because wehave getting a proposal together
that I guess, if what I'mlaying out to you as far as
process, if it didn't match kindof your expectations or what
you feel is needed, then I wouldneed to know that now so that
we incorporate whatever-.
Chanh Tran (14:55):
Gotcha.
Ashly Coggins (14:56):
We need to into the proposal right, which is why
I'm kind of presenting ourtypical.
But obviously there's differentneeds, every client has
different needs and so we canadapt.
But that kind of fundamentallayout that beginning, middle
end of that first phase we foundworks really well in any sort
(15:20):
of organizational changemanagement, whether it's project
controls, bim, doesn't reallymatter what the topic is, it's
the overall approach to yeah.
Chanh Tran (15:29):
I agree, yeah, yeah, gotcha.
So I just wanted to make sure,because Luke and the other
partner I don't remember hisname, mark Mark yeah, so we had
this conversation and kind ofwhat you're talking about is
more of a next step, whichtotally I'm glad we were talking
(15:50):
about this, but for the meetingnext week, I just want to make
sure that you have anunderstanding of that, what it
is.
So, pretty much what we want todo is sit down with some of our
leaders in each team,stakeholders, and they're going
to quickly go through kind oftheir vision for VDCs and BIM
(16:13):
and hopefully by the end of thatmeeting, you can put together
to us a proposal based on thelist that was in that email, and
then what you said makes a lotof sense about meeting with them
again in a group and thenindividually, because you have
to, that's.
I agree that you need to beable to understand how we
operate, not just through onemeeting, but to multiple
(16:35):
meetings and individual meetingsas well, to really understand,
and not only with us, but withour partners from design and
subcontractors, because they'reprobably going to have a
different perspective than aperson who thinks we are what we
are right.
There's certain stuff that andissues and challenges that some
people in my LSC that we can't.
(16:57):
So no, I like the game planAfter we sign up for goals.
I just want to make sure we'renot skipping the part before the
proposal.
Does that kind of make sense?
Ashly Coggins (17:07):
Yes, so it is.
I'm glad that we're doing thatit's.
I always love hearing thefeedback and just trying to
understand what problem they'retrying to solve, and obviously,
the better we understand that,the more accurate our proposal
can be.
We've done this enough times,though that we have a, it's not
necessarily blocking us fromgiving you a proposal.
(17:28):
Okay, right, that type offeedback, because it's sort of
just inherent to the plan, theoverall plan.
But so, yeah, so no issues atall for having that meeting.
Love that we're doing that, andif you needed any sort of
clarity beforehand or if you hadany questions from us, feel
(17:49):
like the team might havequestions.
Then we can also be prepared toanswer those.
Chanh Tran (17:56):
The one thing I would say is our leadership team
is very new to BIM and VDC, soit will be good if you can
somehow use your experience andyour expertise and I'll do the
same to kind of guide themeeting to something that's more
obtainable versus some stuffthat they've visionary 20 years
(18:19):
from now is something that'sreally not applicable to our
business.
At the end of the day, we wantBIM to help improve our profit.
I'm just gonna be straight out.
It's to help improve efficiency, which includes right, which
will bring us more profit, moreprojects and grow the company
(18:39):
right, and sometimes people'svision or the agenda might
always not relate to growing thecompany.
Okay.
So I kind of want to use yourexpertise, based on kind of the
size of our company.
We do 100 mil, 150 mil a year,a lot of federal projects, some
(19:01):
commercial.
So kind of using your expertiseto kind of help guide that
meeting as far as helping themwhat typically other companies
do and what we should do versuswhat they want to do.
Okay, and then from that pointyou can have enough information
to give us a proposal.
Ashly Coggins (19:23):
Yeah, they won't have the idea.
Chanh Tran (19:27):
The idea is it's very similar to that category
that I gave you the 1-5 yearplan or something like that.
Yeah, but those are reallyindustry standards and you can
Google and find those categories.
Ashly Coggins (19:40):
Yeah, absolutely, and those are what I would call
solutions, right, like the mapthat you sent us.
Super helpful to see kind ofwhere your head's at as to what
you feel is important in thetiming of those.
That's great to have going intoany of those meetings and in
that let's see how do I say this.
(20:02):
And ultimately it's still asolution, and you want your
stakeholders to be bought intothe solution, and so usually I
think the first step isidentifying a problem statement,
and you just did that.
Right.
You said, hey, we want to finda way to employ construction
(20:23):
technology in a way that helpsus maximize profitability, right
.
So having that problemstatement and starting out
whether it's this next meetingthat we're in or the first
meeting after a proposal wouldbe agreed to, right, meeting
with that problem statement tokeep people focused, and it's
(20:45):
okay.
I'm used to people throwing outall kinds of solutions that are
like I want to fly to the moon,like crazy things that would be
, that are so far down.
That's okay.
People feel heard because theiridea or their solution to
solving that problem of how tomaximize profitability still
makes it on the roadmap.
Chanh Tran (21:09):
It just may be like on the far end of the roadmap,
right?
I think what you said in thebeginning there is perfect.
I think we should start outwith a meeting saying, hey,
identify a problem that we needto solve.
I think what you just said,what you told me, is perfect.
To kick off the meeting, to setthe expectation how the rest of
the meeting will go, is thatwe're not trying to understand
(21:31):
things that you dream up anddriving road trip over
Thanksgiving or something.
It's something that we canactually apply and see results.
Not this year, next year, butat least we see results and we
have a goal.
Not something you thought ofwhen you were driving six hours
home to Thanksgiving with yourfamily.
Ashly Coggins (21:53):
So what you said?
Chanh Tran (21:53):
is perfect.
Ashly Coggins (21:54):
Oh, good, good.
And if you don't have anotheragenda for the meeting, what I
would actually?
Because I am tempted, justnaturally, when you're getting
all those folks in the room, I'mtempted to jump into that first
step, right where we are doingthat idea dump.
And it's any idea, I mean, it'sjust like word vomit, right?
(22:16):
And if you're not ready to gothere, if you don't want to,
you're not ready for that typeof engagement.
The step before that one, thenI would say it's still helpful
to get their pain points and sokeep it focused on the pain
they're feeling and not asolution, right, so that we get
(22:37):
better alignment going in,because the problem statement
may be slightly different from,you know, maximizing
profitability.
Maybe there's a differentproblem statement we need to
tackle.
And so if we, how does thatsound, if we were to have that
meeting where they could kind ofbrain dump the pain points that
(22:59):
they have, what's creatingissues in their day to day work
life?
What are your thoughts on that?
Chanh Tran (23:09):
Yes and no, because I don't want them to also be a
venting session where they startlooking outside of kind of our
scope, which is what problemdoes BDC and BIM solve?
They might go to someoperational stuff that has
nothing to do with them.
So I would like to I meanunderstanding the problem they
(23:36):
want to solve with them I thinkit's kind of the vision of that
meeting so that it's enough foryou at the end of the day, what
I want to get out of thatmeeting is this team has enough
information so you can help uscome up, that you can come up
with a proposal to help us growor implement BIM right, and
(23:57):
whatever the question you mayneed to ask you can ask.
There's no limit to that.
So, just as I'm thinking rightnow that's kind of where my head
is at is that at the end ofthat meeting I really want you
to have enough information tohave a proposal ready for us.
And if that has to do with youdoing an issue dump where
(24:21):
they're throwing up all kinds ofvisions and stuff at the board
and then you use your experienceto kind of guide them and put
them into a quantum-erotic orderto achieve it, that's fine, I
kind of want to leave that up toyou and the expert.
How have you done it with allthe companies?
Because you have moreexperience than I do and it
comes understanding enough toget a proposal ready.
Ashly Coggins (24:46):
Yeah, honestly, based on what you're describing,
I do think we have enough tohave the proposal, because
you're not describing anythingthat's atypical of a client or a
company.
We would engage with Anythingthat would help me.
The only thing that would helpme dial it in more are those
(25:06):
pain points.
Chanh Tran (25:07):
Okay.
Ashly Coggins (25:09):
I don't know what I thought in case I change on
that.
But if I heard, and honestlywhat I'd be looking for is, is
there a broad consensus on thepain points?
Chanh Tran (25:20):
That's the thing.
That's the thing that I'mafraid might happen, and an hour
meeting might become two hours,because there might be a
disagreement on what the painpoints are, and then one thing
led to another thing.
Ashly Coggins (25:34):
Got it.
Chanh Tran (25:34):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (25:36):
So the beauty of this, and we'll have to figure
out how to do it.
If we're doing it remotely,we'll have to figure out.
I think maybe there's probablysome pre-work where folks could,
because the first thing, what Iwould normally first ask for is
for them to give me all oftheir pain points.
What are the things that justcreate a rub with them that
(25:57):
every time they have to do it orthey need a certain information
or they have to talk toso-and-so or whatever.
What are those points where itjust makes them just go?
I'm so annoyed and what arethose things?
And they could send those to mein advance and I could go ahead
.
And because we won't haveenough time, it's not even time
(26:19):
issue, because I have ways tomanage that piece.
It's more so.
It's harder to do some of thiswhen you're not in person, and
then there's added pressure tomake sure that I'm interpreting
things in real time.
So, having them send and I couldsend an email with this or send
you an email with a specificlanguage for them to create that
(26:43):
list, and then I could come tothem and say, okay, getting
feedback from the team, andunderstand that, working with
Chan, that these are the thingsthat these are the pain points
the team is feeling.
And then usually I spend like aone minute.
A timed it's not debate, or ifthere is a debate it's a very
(27:05):
timed, strict debate, right, soyou've got two minutes to
feedback here, but before I havethe job, because I can be
really tough on people in thosemoments, so before I have the
job, I usually don't try to getinto that.
I think it would more so justbe a recap of this is what we've
heard from the team so far.
Is this, you know, or anysurprises here?
And I can kind of get a senseof that consensus from that
(27:27):
conversation and then we can, wecan prioritize later once we
actually get going with the the,the, the.
After we're past the proposalpoint.
Chanh Tran (27:40):
Gotcha.
Yeah, it'd be nice to have,like the light version of, I
think, what you said I agreewith, but I think that's more of
once we come to an agreementwith each other that we're
moving forward to yellow aspartners.
I think I really want you knowyou to dive in and have those
hard conversations and challengeour leaders to get to that
point.
I just don't think this meetingis totally ready for that.
Ashly Coggins (28:03):
Yeah, I might not get the job.
Chanh Tran (28:06):
The thing is that I don't want to waste your time
right when we're still in theselection process.
Ashly Coggins (28:12):
Yeah yeah, no, okay.
Chanh Tran (28:15):
I want to be fair to everyone, because time is money
, right, and I don't want you todo this and then turns out
there's other things.
You know that we went withsomeone else, blah, blah, blah.
Right, I don't know what thereason is, but I just want you
to have enough information toget the proposal and then we can
, that leaders can make adecision on who to move forward
(28:35):
with.
And from that point on, I agreewith you 100%.
We need, we need to go to thatgranular level to get to
understand what we really needand the problem that we're
trying to solve.
Okay, we're doing thetechnologies to solve a problem,
right, right, and at some timewe don't understand what that
problem is, unless we have anoutside voice challenging us on
(28:59):
what those problems are.
Ashly Coggins (29:01):
Absolutely yeah.
And when you speak to theselection process, what is your
decision criteria?
Chanh Tran (29:10):
I'm not trying to hide information from you.
I actually don't know.
Okay, I actually do not know, Iknow.
Talking to our leadership team,I think it's about finding the
right partner, and for us, forthem too, it's not only the
(29:32):
resources, but have you donethis before?
I think that's the other bigcut here, for have you
successfully shown that you'vedone this with other best
construction companies beforetoo?
Then I'm pretty sure, before weselect, there's going to be
another meeting where, mostlikely, one of our leaders will
(29:55):
probably lead that meeting.
They go through like aninterview process.
Really, my thought behind thiswhole process is okay, I meet
individually with theconsultants to give them overall
view of what we need and thenhave a meeting with our actual
leader.
You have enough information tocome up with a proposal.
(30:18):
Then, after that, I'm prettysure there'll be an interview
process and then a selection.
Does that sound fair, because Idon't want to use too much of
your time either.
Ashly Coggins (30:33):
No, that makes sense to me, because if the
decision when we submit aproposal, who would you say the
decision maker is for decidingwhether whoever it is that's
submitting proposal which one?
Chanh Tran (30:50):
It'll be a team of probably me, pain or VP of
operations and our VP ofbusiness development, because,
at the end of the day, everyother team you learn that
meeting coming up next week orthe week after you meet with our
pre-con team, the head of ourpre-con, you meet with the head
(31:13):
of estimating, you meet with ourbusiness development VP, you
meet with the operation VP, thismarketing.
There's our corporate controlwhich controls our technology
and accounting.
But at the end of the day,those accounting, it, estimating
(31:34):
, we all fall up to VP, which isVP of business development and
VP of operations.
Then the interviewer'sexpulsion will be a little bit
smaller but at the end of theday, those are the decision
makers at that level.
Ashly Coggins (31:58):
Okay, excellent, in that case, I appreciate the
opportunity to be in the roomand hear.
That cements my feel that Iwouldn't like to hear from them
if the same folks that aremaking the decisions are going
to be in the room are roughlythe same folks.
Chanh Tran (32:18):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (32:18):
I think, making sure I understand their pain
points, because that way I canmake sure the proposal reflects
that and they feel heard.
Chanh Tran (32:25):
Yeah.
Ashly Coggins (32:26):
I think that would be really important.
Then it would be helpful if youcould give some thought, maybe
get with the team to just try tounderstand.
Is it about exhibiting thatpast performance and what does
(32:48):
the right partner look like?
You spoke to finding the rightpartner.
What is that right partner?
What traits does that rightpartner exhibit?
That would be really helpful tous just to make sure.
Just honestly, make sure we arethe right fit.
Depending on what you define asthe right fit, it may not be
(33:09):
the right fit and maybe we knowthat before we even get to the
proposal.
I sense that it definitelycould be for sure just in the
interactions that Luke haddescribed.
But I think getting moredefinition around that would be
helpful just to making sure thatwe have what we are putting
(33:29):
together is meeting your team'sexpectations.
Chanh Tran (33:34):
Yeah, gotcha, I guess you have more of a actual
questions, or do you want us to?
Just because I honestly I don'tknow if they know the answer to
that, because this is somethingthat's new to a lot of us.
I think it might be based onthe proposal, what's in the
(34:03):
proposal, how well youunderstand the company, but the
thing is there's always going tobe that phase two, which is we
define a partner and you'regoing to come in and spend the
next I don't know how manymonths understanding who we are.
A lot of stuff right now isgoing to be based on your resume
, really.
Ashly Coggins (34:23):
Yeah, it sounds like that, for sure.
Chanh Tran (34:27):
Yeah, if I can answer that question right now
is what I would say Right now.
For me, it's like interviewingsomeone to join our company.
We don't know until we know.
All we can do is look at theresume at that point and decide
who we want to interview with.
Ashly Coggins (34:42):
Yeah, no, that's super helpful.
I'm glad I asked that questionbecause I'm glad that you're
offering such transparency aswell, because normally we would
focus our proposal on basicallysaying this is what we're going
to do for you.
We don't spend a lot of timecapturing what we've done in the
(35:03):
past.
But, knowing that that'simportant, that you'll want to
be able to see that Superhelpful because I can make sure,
whether it's part of theproposal or presentation or a
conversation, I can make surethat we are able to show you
Similar engagements that we'vedone and how those are forked
out.
Chanh Tran (35:23):
Yeah, Then I sent the email.
I sent the different categories, that we want them, but I also
sent the second half of it.
I know with our VP of operationhe put that part together.
I know that's important to himmaking sure that the proposal
include all those items.
Ashly Coggins (35:49):
Would you say for the team that we'd be meeting
with?
Has that what you sent us?
Has that been pretty muchsocialized with all of them, or
is it going to be a surprise toany of them?
Chanh Tran (35:59):
No, because the five-year plan has been talked
about for like 12 months now.
It's something they've all seenthe bullet points of consultant
service we're looking for.
So that was it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.
So that 12 bullet point issomething I know of VP of
(36:21):
operation really wants to bepart of the proposal.
Ashly Coggins (36:29):
Luke the bullet points.
Those were on the other screenwe looked at right.
Chanh Tran (36:33):
Yeah, the email I sent, I think, last Friday.
Yeah, the test file is what weput together of needs and wants
with BIM, then the bullet pointsof what we're looking for in
our consultant service.
I know what the resume wetalked about.
Luke Lightning (36:54):
Do you want me to pull them up real quick,
Ashley?
I have the email here.
Ashly Coggins (36:57):
Yeah, Because if you feel like that's well
socialized with the groupalready, that's essentially
probably the same feedback Iwould hear from the pain points.
I would imagine I'm justthinking on the fly here but
probably what it makes sense todo pull up the five-year plan
(37:19):
real quick, and then we'll comeback to this part.
Luke Lightning (37:21):
Sure Should be here here.
Ashly Coggins (37:24):
Yeah, so probably what I would.
Let's see I may end up having.
When Luke and I looked at thisyesterday, it made sense.
Probably my only question I hadin that meeting is why five
(37:46):
years to do this?
What's stopping you from doingthis in three years?
Chanh Tran (37:52):
That's what we don't know.
Okay, this list right here isbased on the knowledge that we
have internally right now.
Okay, and it might be wrong, Ican tell you that, okay, we
don't have an expert BIM personthat has done this for a company
before, when they started atzero and grew it into a part of
(38:16):
the process and part of the waya company conducts business and
construction.
I don't have the experience.
I don't think anyone else inour company has the experience.
They might say they have, but Idon't believe we do, and I'm
just being transparent with you.
Right, some say they do, butwhen I talk to them they don't.
So this is based on that.
So there's no saying that, oh,this can't be done in a year, we
(38:41):
don't have the experience.
So we were being veryconservative and I thought, yeah
, so does that kind of answeryour question?
Yeah, absolutely.
This thing can all be like usingyour expert opinion and you
telling us that, hey, maybefabrication and mechwood design
can be done in three years ifyou do this and this and this.
So we're open for it, whenwe're just looking for a partner
(39:03):
that's really want to help usgrow to that point understanding
that they will be phased out ata certain point.
Ashly Coggins (39:10):
Yes, yeah, no, we love being phased out.
Yeah, I get bored if I have tostay around too long.
Yeah, so I think that it'sdefinitely a good fit from that
standpoint.
But, yeah, and it depends likethe timeline, some organizations
, the timeline this would beoverachieving for some
(39:33):
organizations because they'rethey really struggle to make
decisions or they're reallybought into their current
processes or any number ofthings.
Other organizations, they couldprobably do this in two to
three years, no problem.
And so it really just doesdepend on the team.
So I probably I'll probably havesome questions around that that
(39:54):
would help me get a feel forhow quick the team could,
because that was my gut feel.
Is that the team, that it couldbe, that it's a the team
legitimately needs this muchtime just for the organizational
change piece.
And then there's a couple, andso I would.
I'd have questions around likehow do you do it now?
(40:15):
Like the layout, how is thatdone now?
And, particularly with theproblem statement you laid out,
how do you see that that wouldhelp your profit margin?
Right, if you could maximize oroptimize the way that you do
layout, how would that help you?
Chanh Tran (40:36):
Yeah, no, that's kind of where the subject matter
expert can answer that questiona lot better than I can, right?
Ashly Coggins (40:44):
now.
Chanh Tran (40:45):
Yeah, there'll be another one.
Yeah, we'll have a director ofestimating will be there.
Director of field operationwill be there as well.
So we're going to have a lot ofour mid-management and above
people that will be there, andthat's why I kind of it's kind
of more people than I want to,but I don't have a choice.
(41:07):
But that's why I kind of wantto use your expertise to kind of
guide the meeting, but withoutgoing into in depth, like we
already agreed to ourpartnership enough, so you have
information where we caneffectively navigate the meeting
, where you can have a proposalby the end of the meeting enough
(41:29):
information to get a proposalby the end of the meeting
without going way into depth.
Like we already signed you guysup, that kind of makes sense and
we're kind of on the same pageon that.
Ashly Coggins (41:42):
Yeah, absolutely To be honest with you, just to
give you some feedback, you'realready the fact that you'll
have a roadmap and that you'vebeen talking about this for 12
months.
You're already really far aheadof a lot of people that we
start engagements with.
They don't even have this list.
So you've already made a lot ofprogress and the next step is
(42:07):
just vetting the list, reallyfiguring out what tweaks need to
be made, either because ofcapability or priority, or there
are a couple of differentfactors there.
But you'll have done a lot ofgreat work already, even without
a consultant, so that'ssomething to celebrate for sure.
I probably will start themeeting with that
(42:29):
acknowledgement to the team,because that is really helpful.
That's why I already have somuch clarity of what's needed
for the proposal just from this,so I can focus that meeting and
just kind of asking somequestions specific around this
and then managing the time in away that we don't get stuck into
(42:49):
anything, any one specificthing, and focus on whatever
clarity that will improve theproposal.
Chanh Tran (42:59):
Gotcha and then.
So, as of right now, what I'vetold them this is what I told
them before I even talked toanyone.
It's like kind of the meetingis based on.
So marketing, what is yourvision for BIM Estimating what
is your vision for BIM Fueloperation?
What is your vision for BIM?
Is that the right agenda or doyou have something else in mind?
(43:22):
Because my agenda right now isjust going down each team and
have them lay out what they want.
What does good look like inthem?
That's the question I laid outto them and I don't know if
that's the right approach.
I'm leaning on your expertisehere.
Is that the right agenda or doyou want to go through this list
(43:44):
?
Ashly Coggins (43:48):
Typically I would really push off solutions and
even this is a solution Becauseit's so easy to argue about the
solution but most people andit's very easy to find consensus
when it comes to the problem orthe pain point.
Understanding those pain pointshelp me understand.
(44:11):
Is this the right list?
So, for example, if I were togo into that meeting and just
say, okay, estimating, tell mewhat your biggest pain points
are in estimating or operations.
What are your biggest painpoints?
Say, estimating, says, oh, mybiggest pain point is I have no
idea what benchmarking I shoulduse or what our average,
(44:37):
whatever it is, then I'm goingto look at this and I'm going to
because I see proposals thereand I see question mark.
My question would be there arelots of areas that BIM can help
in order to provide thatbenchmarking or to complement
(44:59):
that benchmarking right toenable the benchmarking, but I
don't see that listed as an item.
So they may have benchmarkingsettled.
In that case, I want to knowmore to make sure that the BIM
plan basically executes in theway that they've already had set
up.
So I really do think it is,rather than, what solution do
(45:24):
you see?
Because they may not know, butthey definitely would be able to
speak to the pain points theyhave.
Chanh Tran (45:29):
Okay, so you want to focus more on the pain points?
Ashly Coggins (45:35):
I really do what I've observed in the past.
When you jump to the solutionpiece, I'd even be hesitant to
pull this up to share it withthe team, because it just
becomes really easy to debatethe solution.
Chanh Tran (45:52):
Yeah, no, that makes sense.
Okay, no, that changed mymindset.
No, I like the idea If you wantto approaches as one of the
pain points and then have youprovide us what the solution
looks like.
Yeah, no, that does make sense.
Ashly Coggins (46:12):
Well, and, believe me, I love coming up
with solutions all by myself ina vacuum.
But the approach we take isfirst to build that
collaboration to basicallyfacilitate the team to create
their own solution, Because I'dhave the same solution probably
(46:32):
for everybody, but it's notalways the right fit based on
that organization.
It's more so we're facilitatingthe process to help the team
get to the solution.
Then we're able to point somethings like okay, you can do
that.
Here's some pros and cons tothat.
Ultimately, if the team needsthis to weigh in, we have some
(46:53):
clients that say, look, we haveno idea at all whatsoever.
You can ask us, but we're notgoing to know the answer.
I still always ask Okay, Thenultimately, if I may need to
make that decision because Ithink it's the right fit for
what they are running into, thenthat's not a problem.
But collaboration is definitelya focus of ours in the process.
Chanh Tran (47:17):
Okay, gotcha.
Okay, then, based on how I haveit in my head right now, based
on our conversation today, wewant to start out with you
explaining we're here to whatthe statement that you made
earlier I forgot what you said,I can't wait for a word, but to
(47:38):
understand our pain points ofeach one of those teams and then
, from that point on, I guess,do we go through this list.
Ashly Coggins (47:53):
Let's see In that meeting is an hour.
Chanh Tran (47:55):
It's up to you.
I didn't put a time to it.
That's my next question afterwe have an over-high-level view
of the agenda.
It's like how much time do youneed?
Ashly Coggins (48:07):
I would start with an acknowledgement to the
team.
Set a common vision.
What are we trying to achieve?
A lot of times, that's theproblem statement.
We want to figure out how youcan incorporate construction
technology to improve yourprofit margin.
In order to do that, I want tocheck in with everybody to
(48:28):
understand their pain points.
What are their biggest hurdles?
They feel and not everybody canspeak to that specific problem
statement.
Pre-construction, for example,may not be able to.
I'll give that a little bit ofthought and dial the common
vision in.
(48:48):
But then I would go around toeach of the departments and I
can ask them their pain points.
Typically I ask them to writeit down on stickies because it
can get pretty lengthy.
Some people like to talk andit'll get a lot of time with a
couple of people.
(49:08):
It would be good if they cameprepped with those, if they
could share them in advance,because then I can maximize the
time in finding consensusbetween the groups.
Chanh Tran (49:22):
Is there a limit to what you want to put within
three or five pinpoints, or doyou want them to have an
open-ended?
Ashly Coggins (49:30):
Yeah, no, I like three to five.
We'll do the open-ended afterwe do the engagement.
That's where they can put allthe pain points they ever want,
but in this one, yeah, I thinkit makes sense to limit three to
five.
If they could send those inadvance, then what I'll do is
based on the feedback.
I won't necessarily put this on, the wouldn't necessarily show
(49:54):
this, but the questions I askwould be very much informed by
what's showing up here and whatI'm seeing in their comments.
If I see complete consensusacross the board, then I can
show this right from the get-goRight.
Chanh Tran (50:11):
Got you.
Yeah, Right now, what I have isintroductions, problem
statement.
And you want to go by teams, byindividuals.
Ashly Coggins (50:23):
It's actually.
If they could send the problemstatement in advance.
Okay yeah, then they couldalways read those aloud.
We can have them read their topthree.
Chanh Tran (50:37):
Okay, problem statement.
Then the pinpoints.
Luke Lightning (50:44):
Are you saying problem statements are the same
as pain points, Ashley.
Chanh Tran (50:48):
Yeah, that's where I'm trying to wrap.
Is that one thing, or is that?
Are you looking for a sense ofthe company's problem statement
of why we need them and then goon to the pain points of each
individual teams?
Or is each of your teamssupposed to come up with one
statement of the problem andthen the pinpoints?
(51:10):
Or do we just skip thestatement problems, go straight
to the pain points?
Ashly Coggins (51:15):
So we'll do introductions, I'll do an
acknowledgement, we'll set awhat we call set a common vision
.
So what are we trying toachieve from this?
Okay, then pain points, and ifI get their pain points in
advance, then we should be ableto build that problem statement
closed with the problemstatement.
Okay, I would, because if I gettheir pain points in advance,
(51:43):
I'm still going to havequestions.
So we'll build in when they'rediscussing their pain points,
they'll present them and then Ithink we just need a little bit
of time for me to ask questionsand then the answer them.
Chanh Tran (52:00):
So what are you looking to define in the common
statement from us?
So I just want to prep our teamfor it, so that we're not
fumbling around that agenda.
Ashly Coggins (52:14):
If I get the pain points in advance, I don't know
that they do need to create aproblem statement.
Chanh Tran (52:20):
Okay.
Ashly Coggins (52:22):
I think I would present a problem statement
based on the pain points.
Chanh Tran (52:27):
Okay, so you would present that part I got you.
Ashly Coggins (52:30):
And then get their feedback to make sure that
I heard them.
Chanh Tran (52:35):
Okay, got you.
Okay, that makes sense now.
Thanks for doing that.
Ashly Coggins (52:43):
Yeah, no problem.
Chanh Tran (52:44):
I appreciate that that helps a lot.
Ashly Coggins (52:48):
Okay, good.
Luke Lightning (52:49):
I just want to be mindful.
I think Chan has them twoo'clock in four minutes Okay.
Chanh Tran (52:53):
Oh, yeah, I do yeah.
Luke Lightning (52:56):
So, Chan, sorry, should we schedule this meeting
offline instead of right now?
I was thinking we'd take sometime to schedule it now, but
what do you yeah let's scheduleit offline I have to look at the
calendars too.
Chanh Tran (53:11):
Okay, but based on this meeting, it seems like I
have some homework to do withthe team, so probably next week
is not a good week anymore.
It's probably be the first weekof December, okay, great.
Because a lot of people are noteven working this week, so I
can't help anyone and I'mthinking at least an hour.
Luke Lightning (53:32):
Okay, does that sound right, ashlee?
Chanh Tran (53:34):
Yeah, whatever time you need.
If you need an hour and a half,let me know.
I just need to know in advance.
Luke Lightning (53:40):
Should we do an hour and a half and then, if we
don't need it, we could just-.
Ashly Coggins (53:42):
Yeah, since we're doing introductions, yeah,
let's do an hour and a half.
Luke Lightning (53:45):
Okay, oh, I think you lost them.
Uh-oh, maybe I don't know if hemeant to do that or it looked
like he was I don't know if Ican call him back in actually.
Ashly Coggins (54:00):
It's okay, we can follow up with that piece,
right Okay?
Luke Lightning (54:06):
Oh, he's trying to get back in.
Okay, hey Chan.
Chanh Tran (54:12):
Hey, it's all right.
My laptop died even though itwas plugged in, no problem.
My battery's just working, so Idon't know why my laptop died,
so I have to call you on myphone.
Luke Lightning (54:21):
No problem, teams sucks the energy out of my
laptop.
I don't know if you're on a Mac, but-.
Chanh Tran (54:26):
No, we're on a PC, but yeah, I don't know what
happened.
Luke Lightning (54:30):
Okay, all right.
Chanh Tran (54:31):
But sorry, the last thing I heard was an hour and a
half for now, and then something, something, and then it just
died.
Luke Lightning (54:38):
Okay, so I was just saying let's schedule it
for an hour and a half and thenif we don't need it, we can call
get the time back.
Chanh Tran (54:45):
Okay, gotcha.
No, I know I really appreciateyou helping define the agenda.
That's really helpful.
It's just really nice to knowthere's expertise in guiding
this process.
I really appreciate it.
I know the reason why we'redoing this.
I'm being honest we just don'thave the expertise.
We just don't.
Ashly Coggins (55:06):
Absolutely.
It's honestly facilitating thistype of thing is really
challenging.
It's something I really lovedoing, but most clients, most
companies don't have theexpertise.
Chanh Tran (55:17):
Yeah, it's just that we just have a lot of people
who's experienced pieces andpieces of it and like, oh, this
is what we want, and this iswhat we want, oh, this is cool
to have.
But then this is how it'sreally challenging putting it
all into a true timeline andorganizing it, and we just don't
have that expertise.
So I mean, we have a lot ofopinions.
I have my opinion about whatyou put it in the next guy.
(55:38):
I have opinion and I can tellyou it's not a line.
So, this is nice.
No, I appreciate it.
Thank you for the conversation.
Thank you for your time.
If I don't talk to you again,have a happy Thanksgiving.
Luke Lightning (55:52):
Yeah, I'll follow up with you by email,
shannon, and then we can try toaim.
Maybe we could just putsomething like tentative on the
calendar so it's blocked off forthe four of us.
So I think Marco will want tobe here too, if he can, and then
at least we have a hold, andthen if it doesn't work, we can
always move it around.
Chanh Tran (56:09):
Okay, perfect.
And then I got some homework todo with our leadership team.
Luke Lightning (56:14):
Good luck with that.
All right, shannon, thanks alot.
Thanks again for theopportunity.
Hopefully see you meet you inperson sometime in Minneapolis.
Chanh Tran (56:24):
Okay, definitely, thank you.
Luke Lightning (56:25):
All right, take care.
Okay, bye, thank you, thank you, Thank you, thank you, thank
(59:54):
you, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you,
(01:02:32):
thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com