Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Future You.
The podcast brought to youby graduate careers experts prospects.
I'm your host, Emily Slade.
And in this episodeI speak to David about being an actor.
Hello. My name is David McCulloch.
I'm a serious actor.
Amazing, So what is a serious actor? Me.
I mean, I would say I'm not serious.
So I unprofessional actor.
(00:22):
And every time I say that,I cringe a little inside
because I always find it weird.
Call myself an actor.
Especiallybecause won't be the case with you.
Because we know each other.
But if you introduce yourself as an actorto a stranger,
you get, an array of questions and judgment
and all other negative thingsthat you don't want being thrown at you.
(00:44):
Mostly a judgment of why, an actor and stuff like, oh, really?
What? I've seen you been anything.
If you got anything lined up,how did I know those lines?
I'm, It's more to it than, well, notso much on learning lines, but there is.
But there's more to itthan just because I've not been on cover.
It doesn't mean I'm not an actor.
amazing.
You've gone straight in nowwith a lot of the, like, myth busting.
(01:06):
So you you are a professional actor.
That means essentially,I suppose, that you get paid
acting work more often than not.
More often than not,
yes, but not more often than to be fulltime.
Like sort of. Yes.
(01:26):
Depends on the job I have.
But yes, I do, for some obscene reason,get paid to act,
which is a very offor is it pinch me moment for me
whenever that happensand I see the money in my bank account.
Oh my goodness, that's great.
So was that the dream?
What's your educational journeyup until this point?
It was very much a pipe dream.
Growing up, I always loved acting.
(01:49):
I loved, being on stage, doing drama.
Not just as a mandatory subject at uni.
Oh, no,not a uni. Mandatory subject at school.
I was probably the only person
in my secondary school who had the optionto do a second language.
We all do, like French or German,
(02:10):
but you could have the option to chooseeither Spanish or Latin.
I was long.
Only ones that pass the test,which has the option.
Now, I know I do drama,and my language teacher was like, why?
And so yeah, I through school
and college and uni, I'd always,
you know, gone down the path of doingdrama, Anambra College.
(02:33):
There was the option to do like the fulltime BTec which can be for three A-levels.
And my parents were like,
maybe don't put all your eggsin one basket, maybe do something else.
And I was like, okay, well I'll do the,the, the one that counts as one A-level.
And now if you film studies what else.
Photography. Please choose EnglishLit as well.
I said I'll catch you using this lit.There we go.
(02:54):
And then went to uniI studied drama and media studies.
Two Mickey Mouse grades pass at one half.
The joke I always get I wasI tend to make myself self-deprecating.
That's what being an actress
you said to Jim the camera.
So I did, yeah, I studied drama media.
And so what
a lot of people would think the next stepwould be is to go to drama school.
(03:16):
But my parents had savedand very kindly paid for my university
fees, which is back in the daywhen it was only three grand a year.
I, you know, Arnoldit would have been a bit
cheeky of me to be like, hey, Mum and Dad,thanks for money
to let may have a higher education.
Now how about three times that much to dowhat you would essentially
(03:37):
consider the same thing,but all the way up and in London.
So after uniI wanted to keep the creative flame going.
So I joined a lot like underground groups.
But always kind of feltthat to be a professional was just
slightly out of reach.
I didn't think there was any wayto get into that.
Unless you've been to drama school.
(03:58):
And it turns out that's not the case.
Because I got involvedwith the actual dramatics
group in Winchester,and I wanted to get more involved
in, like, marketing as well as actingbecause I thought, what if I can't at
all market because I like thatkind of promotional aspect.
And I was, in rehearsalsfor one of the shows
(04:20):
and, one of the women that was init approached me and said that her and her
mum had professional theater company,and they were holding auditions.
Did I want to go along?
Said I was only a little bit of money,but all I heard was money is yes,
but I then immediatelythe imposter syndrome kicked in another,
you know actually professional actor.Don't tell her.
(04:40):
Don't tell her that you're not.
I'm.
So I went along, auditioned
in, and then that's kind of howI got my foot in the door, I guess.
Amazing.
So this is the thing let's talk about.
There must be a variety of routesinto the profession, as it were.
A lot of people assumeyou have to go to drama school.
You don't.
What are the perks of goingto drama school?
(05:02):
I don't know.
my wife went to drama school,
and in her audition,she was asked to do a speech again.
But as a pineapple,a full disclosure here.
It's true.
I went straight to schooland I did do the audition rounds
and I was asked to be a teabagand they used teabag.
you get, it's a much more intensetraining.
(05:23):
You get showcaseswhich are to be put in front of agents.
So the next step would be, in theory,a lot of people might assume
you'll need an agentin order to get you work in the industry.
Do you have an agent?
No, I don't, but you still getwork in the industry? Yes.
Perseverance.
Applying for jobs constantly.
(05:44):
But it's also a case of who you know,I have gotten jobs
because I've worked for people
and we got a non-royaland then down the line they've gone, hey,
you are that.
And so from all you,come and do this job or something,
I do find with age,it depends on what kind of level you are.
I think there are certain jobsin the industry that you can't get
(06:06):
without an agent, but to get one of thosevery big agents is very difficult.
But then there are a lot of otheragents are kind of on the same level,
but maybe I'm at alreadyor the other professionals are,
and they'll just be getting me workthat I could get myself.
And so I always think
strive foran agent because you might need them for
(06:26):
some of the more big and complicated jobsif I ever get them.
Which is that the dream is hoping,I it might be helpful
as well to kind of get that knowledge
from the agent side of things,because as an actor,
contractsand terms and conditions and usage
and all that just straight over my head,pretty much.
(06:47):
It's quite lucky.
My wife I mentioned used to workan agency, so if I have and it comes,
I usually go to her. yeah.
So it helps with the sort of nittygritty admin side of things.
But you would alsothen have to give a cut to your agent.
Yes. So by sourcing work yourselfit means you save that money.
Yes. Most agents out there do saythat if you source the work yourself, then
(07:08):
you don't have to pay them a commissionunless you choose to get them involved.
I did have an issue with the past agents.
I have had a couple of agents before whereI said, I've gotten this job myself.
I did it last year.
I'm coming.
It was like a seasonal gig,and I'm doing it again.
But here's all my variablesin case you won't pay for anything else.
(07:30):
But it was around, the festive periodwhere unless you're already down
for panto or something else, you'reprobably going to be put down so much.
And that she was like, I think you shouldput this contract through me.
Otherwise you should think about lookingfor other representation.
Now what?
Okay, well, here'swhat you have tracked says.
And yeah,I think a little bit of a representation
(07:51):
there is sadly, in this industry,occasions
where people will try and take the mica bit raw is a lot of stories of actors,
getting taken advantage of.
So one of the things and you do need, I'msure this will be one of your questions.
You do need to, a lot of heart and know
a strong whale and backboneand gumption to be in this industry.
(08:13):
You have to have a lot of terriblepeople and rejection and stuff like that.
So it's just all about knowing your worththat's the best advice I give you,
actually just know what you're worth.
That's a nicethat's a really nice way to put it.
So you really do not have to havelike rock solid self-esteem because yeah,
in ten times out of ten it's not you.
(08:33):
You didn't get this rolebecause they hate you.
Yeah.
You didn't get this rolefor million reasons
that nothing to do with youand I'll still think that I.
amazing.
So while we're on the thing of advice,like how do you deal with rejection?
Oh, self-pity.
Alcohol. I'm joking.
(08:54):
I'm joking on a podcast.I don't know, really.
If it's something like a self-tape,
I can kind of send it offout of sight, out of mind.
But whereas for me,I unlike a lot of actors,
I don't live in London,I live in Hampshire.
And so sometimes I have to travelall the way up to London for an audition.
(09:14):
And it does.
It is a little bit harderon the old confidence when you've
woken up early, paid money
for a train ticket,you travel all the way up to London.
You get there really early because,you know,
trust train times,and it takes like, maybe an hour,
two hours to get from your maybe longerto get from your doorstep
(09:34):
to London and then you from furtherinto deepest, darkest depths.
And you get there taking forever.
You're sweating your heartor you're freezing cold or whatever
the wipers like you get in five minuteslater.
If not, thanks very much of the guy.
So even that in itself is a bit like,oh God.
So sometimes that kind of softensthe rejection blow a bit.
(09:55):
But then you say,why do I go all the way up there?
Why did I bother?
So it's trying to push through a bit, likedid you build it?
Mostly because I wanted the job.
So it is always worth it.
It's just, it's like,what is the of what I'm getting?
It's hard work,but you get paid to do what you love.
And. Yes,and that is a privilege that I'm very,
(10:18):
very glad to have someI can get paid for doing what I like.
I have gotten some acting job Yeah.
And so then what do they tendto look like?
Like you're not career.
Not in Guardians of the Galaxy three.
Or are you?
So, like what?
What are you as a consistentlyjobbing actor,
which is,I believe, what you referred to you as,
(10:42):
what does thatwhat does the work look like?
So before I became professional,I just assumed that a professional actor
was someone that went up to Londonand filmed on a big TV show
or film or had, like, a long runin the West End or something like that.
But then when I actually did it,the first acting job
I did was on five days and totalstill got paid for, which is great.
(11:03):
And then, the second one that I had,I did it alongside
my then full time jobbecause I used to work in an office.
And it was touring to like regional areas,like taking theaters,
to community centers, local theaters,village halls, churches or hovercrafts.
Not one that was moving,but in the other craft museum.
(11:24):
It's completely
like this was so differentto what I thought acting was going to be.
But so the tool that I'm talking aboutis the way the production company
local to me who Black Box Theaterand we drove around,
we took up the stage and the setand lights and all by ourselves.
So it's very collaborative effort on set.
(11:44):
Oh, this is a different sidethat you don't really see
if you're a normal person who just thinksacting is being Benedict Cumberbatch.
Yeah.
And then there's loads of other jobsthat I had that fall
under acting that you don't really think,oh, yeah, that counts as an acting job.
Like, immersive theater stuff for roleplay work.
(12:06):
I do a lot of that.
I've managed to get inwith quite a few companies.
So, like, what's just going out?What's work? They work.
So it depends on what companyyou're doing.
But basically, companies will use actors
for simulationsto help train people, for other jobs.
So, like, magical.
Well, plays an easy one to explain.
(12:26):
What are we training?
You know, upcoming doctors and nurses.
And they'll have actorsthat'll be given a sheet where
if this is your character,this is your ailment,
off you go into quite a lot of improvand thinking on your feet.
So you've got to react to the persontalking to you.
And you've also quite a lot of pressurebecause it's like,
wow, this person is trying to be a doctoror nurse, a real job.
(12:48):
And, are you here helping them do that?
And I've done a lot of, like,hostile environment training,
role play where that people that arebe trained up to go
to, you know, first world countriesor war torn countries,
and they'll have actors playing civilians,sometimes aggressive simulations
and stuff like that,because you're training people for
(13:11):
a wide range of scenariosthat they could go into,
especially given the state of the worldat the moment But we're right there
training people to go into these placesand provide aid and fire
support to people who have been,potentially victims of warfare.
And they could doa lot of conflict out there.
So that's some of the scenariosthat we do, which is quite a lot of fun
(13:37):
for us because, you know, but it'svery tight around where to play it around.
It is played around bythe guns. About is great.
So you're not trained to be a doctor.
Not the not so that's, thingsI didn't think of before.
And yeah. And that's a lot of fun to do.
And it keeps the creative muscles goingbecause a lot of improv involved.
And you got to stay in characterbecause you got to keep the
(13:59):
simulation as real as possible,because these are people that have paid
a lot of money for these coursesto go into real world scenarios.
You don't want to mess that up.
you talked aboutkeeping the muscles active.
Is that somethingthat you have to be aware of?
What are the what are the sort of costsof being an actor
when you think about thingslike schedules, headshots,
(14:23):
workshops, keeping, keeping you activewhen you're not getting paid work?
We're great.
Thing is, with stuff like role play work,it's a lot more consistent
than your plays,your films and all of that.
And I got into thatbecause, I knew people
that had already worked an exact quotefor friends in the industry.
(14:44):
That makes me sound really important.
You know, my,three males got an on speed dive.
He told me to look at the camera, No,it a lot of friends do it, and, you know,
what are you doing?
This and that.
Oh, come along to this or that,
very much like a lot of these companiesare just
because they are not creativecompanies per se.
They're always on the lookout for actors.
(15:05):
So it is a case of who,you know, for those kind of gigs.
If you've gone a long timebetween doing, say, like a play,
you can be a little bit rusty.
And I do find that I always find the firstday of rehearsing something, I'm like,
oh, do you have to get up and do it?
It's the worst feeling ever.I don't know what I'm doing.
So it's I'm tired.I don't want to take notes.
Go home.
(15:26):
Because you're not done it in a while.
It's like with anything, it's like,
if you don't know when the bike for ages,you get on it again.
But so in terms oflike the physical mental side of it
is good to keep those creative juicesgoing, you know, in a way.
And you canyou do that for free in your own time
by just like learninga monologue of your own back?
(15:46):
Yeah, just practicing with friends,that kind of thing.
Yeah, I know some peoplethat definitely do that.
Yeah.
But like time you pay for, like workshopsand courses to keep you ticking over.
I think there are definitely,like, actors workshops out there.
I know a few people that have done them,and they're really beneficial.
I know a few peoplethat I've got on my acting retreats.
(16:07):
It's.You cost a fair bit of money or it's.
I don't currently have you kind of knowyou're getting something in for for that
because, they're offering
quite a unique experiencethat you would get anywhere else.
In terms of going back to your questionabout costs, head shots
and showgirls and stuff like that,it is very costly, this industry.
(16:31):
And sometimes it just kind of makes you, in order to get acting work.
I spent a lot of money to get the thingsI need to get the acting work
and stuff like that. I'm like,unlike an agent.
Are there things that you absolutely doneed?
You absolutely need a headshot,which is a picture of your face.
(16:51):
Yes, but one that kind of a professionallooking one.
I when I first got my headshots,like my first ever ones, I had no idea.
I had no idea what to do.
So I kind of like what's an actor'slooked like.
that or a smile or whatever.
So you've got to think aboutwhat characters you want to play
and have differentlooks and styles for that.
(17:13):
If you don't live in London,it can be quite tricky
to find a headshot photographerbecause they're all in London,
but look around locallyand might find that a little bit cheap
for them ones in London.
I used the last set of headshotsI had was from a local
photographer called Mike Bell. And they're fantastic.
I've still got even better.
So a showreel,basically what you need is,
(17:35):
or you should aim to get is a video
montage of your acting work.
You can get you can pay for show.
You'll see where they will have written uplike one, 2 or 3
different types of scenes and will beprofessionally shot and edited.
(17:56):
And then you've got videoevidence of you being able to act,
and then you can basically show,oh is in the main a show reel.
You can show a reel of your work.
So, but they are very expensive
if you don't have a lot of money,to get a show, I will say.
And then looking out for like, studentproductions is quite handy.
(18:19):
It can be a bit of a lottery.
And they don't always pay, but some justpay, like expenses and stuff.
And you get a freeshowed off scene out of it.
And, you know,that's how I started for that.
the odd short film I've done hereand there, I'm always thinking,
so a bit of a scene that I can just takesome of that and use it.
I'm quite lucky that I have a basicunderstanding of video editing software.
(18:43):
But I to I'm like, I move you just clip
insert a phase between twoand there you go.
But it is quite it's almost like a lotyou need to have like
the best headshotsand the best showreel, as people say,
if when you're starting outjust getting a couple of pictures
of your face as a black background
(19:04):
and even just filming yourselfdoing a monologue
just so you've got somethingto start with.
So if someone can see what you're like,
like, I know
people who have been doing this for yearsand they've got some good work,
but they don't have a showreelbecause they've just
somehowmanaged to build the contacts as they go.
And yeah, the other thing about cost,
(19:27):
and this is one thing I hate about thisindustry, is the acting seems
to be the only industrywhere you have to pay to apply for jobs,
so you don't have toon indeed or total jobs or real,
but on stuff like Spotlight and Mandy.
You have to pay to create read upcredit profile and something like Mandy.
(19:48):
But you have to pay to apply for paidjobs, right?
And it's also quite trickygetting on spotlight because you have to.
I think that had a certain numberof credits under your name already
to be accepted onto that and your postcredits for applying for work,
and then you can't even see
you'll be acting jobs because only if you're not represented by an agent.
You can see set amounts,if you have an agent, I get to see more.
(20:12):
That's quite tricky.
do you have to have a jobthat's not acting on the side?
Yes, definitely.
Unless you are super, super lucky.
Yeah.
It's good to had a side hustle.
Some people just do actingas, like, a part time thing, and that's
absolutely fine.
Some people do it a lot more full time.
I'd love for thisto be my full time fashion,
(20:32):
but I've been doing this for coming upto eight years professionally, and I.
I'm the realist that you do need anotherjob to help pay the bills, as it were.
When I started, I was doing a full time
like 37, 40 hour job.
I was working in the public sector, butI was very lucky that my boss at the time
(20:52):
used to be in a band, so he had thatkind of creative love inside.
And so he let me utilize probably abuse
the chance I could work flexibly.
And I was able to do acting alongside a.
But then it got to a pointwhere I had a very lucky year in 2021.
where I had quite a few jobs lined up,and I'd used up all my anger leave.
(21:15):
I didn't have any flexi time left,and my new boss had said,
oh, you can't do what you've been doingand be flexible.
So I was sort of like,
okay, then I'll put to make a decision,
and decision was to hand in my notice
and make a go of it properly.
I was very lucky at end of 2021where I went from doing a play,
(21:36):
doing another play,doing a music video, short play
and then a big seasonal contract,a January hit, and I had nothing.
I was like, oh, was money going to go?
So it's good to have a side hustle.
I used to be a Deliveroo riderso zero hours is great.
I know a lot of people when it was firstintroduced like L0 hours, it's not great.
(21:58):
And there was a riskbecause you're not guaranteed shifts.
So make yourself invaluable in that job.
But not too invaluable that I won't beannoyed when you leave if you leave.
So I'm very lucky.
There's a theater loadwhich may, with the zero,
which I cut the hours contract,which is, guest experience.
(22:18):
So it's working the bar,ushering, scanning work in the cafe,
because it's a theater.
They know that I'm an actor.I do it for me.
So they're very supportive of that.
And they understand thatI like their outside of it.
I like getting a lot of shifts, but I alsolove the flexibility, other avenues.
I want to be flexible.
Even if you were to get,let's say, a feature film,
(22:42):
do you think you set up that side hustlebecause there's no guarantee,
you know, just again, just tryingto, like, have a reality here.
It's not like you get cast in the nextMarvel movie and then you're set for life
because you do have to keepthat realistic grounding of like,
it's good to have work somewhere.
Yeah, I know full well that if I was very,very, very fortunate
(23:03):
enough to get the next Marvel movie,I'm not going to be the lead.
Not yet.
But it will be.
And, you know, I've had itwhile I've gone off and had quite
good jobs and stuff,but I know it's coming to an end.
There's nothing lined up next,
so it is good to keep those sidehustles in your back pocket.
(23:24):
you know, just be open and honestwith you employer in that sense.
And so hopefully that theythen let you back on your up,
because there is no guaranteeunless you're an actor
of a certain level of, I guess, fine.
Or if you've somehow.
Well, even that, as I say, if you'velocked yourself into a TV series,
even that it's not guaranteedand get canceled like that.
(23:44):
it's a fantasy job.
This is a fantasy jobSo it is all about being realistic.
So, like, it can look like a fancy thingbeing an actor.
And since some extent is a little bitSo it's good to be.
Keep yourself grounded,keep things realistic.
But also, you've got to push yourself.
(24:05):
So I on on spotlight every daylooking for work, applying for things.
There are some panto casting websitesI am going on every day.
This casting closed,but if I refresh it, maybe we'll come up,
and just apply for anythingand everything, even if you don't think
you'll be great at it, or if you thinkthis isn't really for me, just go for it.
(24:27):
I applied for some film spotlight.
It was web puppeteering gig.
I have no experience being a puppeteer.
Didn't mention anythingabout of competition on my, application.
And I got an audition and I went inand the guy said,
do you have an experiencethat's like a, puppet?
And I was like, no, not this kind,
But I didn't say the rest,which was not this or any, really.
(24:48):
you got yourself in the dole scene bypeople that might remember you for future.
And you had a practice audition.
I did, yeah.
But that's another thing like, thesepeople in an audition round, they will see
God knows how many people a dayand they're running.
Lie and f merge into one.
Who is it now? Oh, God.
Been all day. I'm tired of that.
(25:09):
You've got to make.
If you get into the audition room,make that time yours.
And if they kept youwaiting for over an hour
and they say, sorry, I'm running lateas absolutely fine, don't worry about it.
It's all good.
Because you've got to give a goodimpression and auditioning and indeed
just being in the industry in general,like in any aspect, whether it's
(25:31):
auditioning, rehearsing, actingor just hanging out,
it's not just aboutbeing a talented actor.
It's about being a hard working actor.
It's also about being someone that peoplewould like to go and have a pint with.
Nice job.
Nice is so important.
But yeah, just try and get yourself outthere.
Social media is awful at the moment,but try and network on that
(25:53):
as much as you can.
Another good bit of advice, I'd say, forgetting to know more about the industry.
And there's some actors look down ita little bit, but I'm like, no, it's
great.
Is applying for extrasor supporting artist agencies?
Because for that, all you dojust you don't even need to worry
about professional headshots.
Those needs know what you look like.
(26:15):
You just need send youyour measurements, a picture of yourself.
And yeah, there are stories of I've done
a few extras gigs and it'sI it's money for all, bro.
Yeah.
And b,you get to see like, big giant film sets
and you kind ofget more of an understanding
of how that side of acting works,because I got really done, like short
(26:35):
films or small scaleindie films, I'd see a big, huge
million dollar production is like,wow, this is incredible.
It's amazing.
And you,you do get a chance to act a little bit.
And, I did one recentlywhere I would say anything,
but I was having to react to a person,and that's that.
I was quite interesting doing it this wayand learning
about the kind of technical aspect,putting on a big production.
(27:00):
And you get fed
films I'd like to get paid as well,but getting a sandwich is, the best
If you've listened to meramble all this time
and you still want to be an actor,go for it.
If anything, I said, as an as you go,it's not for me of as ever any.
I mean, I an onlineworst critic and I always doubting myself,
(27:20):
but I always remember thatlike well, the alternative to go back
to full time in the public sector,which was okay,
I sure people love it that,but I'm not built that way.
I'm not built to be sat behind a computerall the time.
I need to be on my feet up till I come onstage.
Yeah. It's hard.Yeah. It's not impossible.
(27:40):
No it's not. And it feels impossible.
Especially if you don't gostraight in school.
And it looks impossiblewhen all your reading is like
the children of actorsare getting all the roles.
But there's so many projects outthere, across so many mediums.
The choir, actors, Yeah, absolutely.
And there isthere is more out there that you think.
And there's I'm very much just, startbelieving that there's more to acting than
(28:03):
just what's in London,because it seems like
London is their cultural hub, that thing,and it's all here.
And it it's
because you've got all the, like,small scale pub films and stuff like that.
I don't have much of that outside,but just look around
and you'll find there are more localand regional companies.
The will probably be very gratefulfor local regional actors that pay travel
(28:26):
more down to London. But yeah, you need
a backbone, a lot of courage
and, just a bit of insanity for a bitIf you die, go for it.
Yeah, you'll think, what if? And that's.
I was at a crossroads in my life whereI was like, I have a choice to choose.
Doing a play I really want to do.
I don't know what happened afterwards,or I stick with my job and I'm comfortable
(28:48):
and I spend the rest of my life going, I really wish I could have done that play.
So even if many years down the line,I eventually go, do you know what
I'm done?
At least I haven't done itand I'll be happy with that.
amazing.
Amazing, amazing.Thank you so, so much for your time.
You're very welcome.
Thanks again to David for their time.
For more informationon becoming an actor, head to prospect
(29:10):
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