December 4, 2025 • 51 mins
How do you prepare a decades-old enterprise for an AI-native future?
In this episode of Futureproof, Xano CEO Prakash Chandran talks with George Bock, CIO at Generali Global Assistance, about what it takes to modernize an enterprise when the technology landscape is moving faster than ever. George shares lessons from a career of leading complex transformations — from cloud migrations and legacy system retirements to M&A integrations — and why the fundamentals of people, data, and communication still matter more than any single tool. Together, they break down how leaders can build AI-ready teams, create strong data foundations, mitigate organizational risk, and navigate the human side of change without losing momentum.
Topics covered include:
- Human-centered transformation: Why the first step in any AI initiative is aligning teams, breaking silos, and strengthening communication.
- Data before disruption: How clean, governed, high-quality data becomes the foundation for every effective AI system.
- Upskilling for an AI era: How to prepare teams for the shift in skills, roles, and decision-making that AI introduces.
- Risk, governance, and vendor trust: What enterprise leaders should look for when evaluating AI tools, partners, and security postures.
The future enterprise: Why AI will flatten org structures, automate mid-level decision work, and create new hybrid workflows between humans and agents.
Episode ID: 18296467-building-an-ai-native-enterprise-george-bock-generali-global-assistance
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
When you think about where AI is going in the context
of its capabilities, uh it'slearning all the time, it's
being able to do more criticalthinking.
And so as that happens, it'sgonna reach that that
superagency uh level.
I think a lot of those mid-leveldecision makings and
orchestrations and things thatwe take for granted today with
with much of the IT staff is isgonna change um and possibly
(00:24):
even be removed.
What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Hello, welcome to Future Proof.
My name is Perkash Chundred andI'm the CEO of Xeno.
Today I'm joined by George Bach,a seasoned technology leader who
spent the last 20 years helpingenterprises modernize their tech
foundations from cloudmigrations and MA integrations
to building global IT teams.
Now, as CIO at Generali GlobalAssistance, he's focused on
(01:03):
preparing organizations for anAI native future with systems
that are scalable, resilient,and human-centered.
Welcome, George.
Thanks for having me, Prakash.
It's a pleasure.
Maybe you can tell us a littlebit about your background
leading up to what you do today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Yeah, I'd love to.
My background certainly is aninteresting uh group of twists
and turns.
Um, you know, funny enough, I Iuh I started my career uh really
not even in IT.
Um I was in more of anaccounting, finance, and
operations kind of role.
Um I found my way into uh ITreally through a project as the
(01:40):
uh business owner.
Um and and one thing that Ilearned that's really kind of
carried me throughout my careeris that line between what um
what what's needed and andwhat's produced, right?
And so uh as I've gone throughmy career, I've I've taken the
opportunity to uh also uh enjoythe opportunity to be in
(02:04):
multiple industries.
And so uh being in multipleindustries, I've I've had a
chance to see everything, spenta lot of time in manufacturing,
and then also in you know,deploying ERP systems and
software industry, uh, all theway up through to now I'm in you
know kind of the insurance uhspace.
So um each of those kind ofroles through my career has uh
(02:26):
helped me uh continue to togrow, learn more, but then also
apply uh what I've learned tothat new new uh new company.
So then even in there, I alsotook a stint uh as as an
entrepreneur to start my ownthing.
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
Yeah, you did.
And one of the things also byway of background is you were a
psychology major, is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I was, yes, which is an unusual thing for most uh
college technologists or CIOs,but uh honestly I use that uh
all the time because my my wholegoal there was about learning
how to interact and work withpeople, lead people, um, and
then make better businessdecisions.
And I always had my my mytechnicals uh bend to my my
(03:11):
background too, but uh yeah,that's true.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Yeah, I want to dig more into that, but before I do,
maybe you can talk a little bitabout the role you hold today
and like what your like broadercharter is.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
Yeah, so um I'm CIO for the North America Business
Unit of a very large financialservices and insurance company
based out of Italy.
My division is based out of outof Paris, and so we've been
experiencing uh rapid growth inthe travel uh insurance space,
(03:43):
and we we kind of do a couplethings.
Um we we are an insurancecompany, first and foremost, but
we're also a technology uhfocused company too, because we
we are um in the middle of thebuying path of those products
that we sell to uh some verylarge online travel agents such
as uh you know Expedia, all theway down to small uh online
(04:06):
travel providers.
Um and so uh it's been a it'sbeen an interesting journey
because uh we're we're tacklinga lot of change and we're
embracing technology to do that,but at the same time, too, we're
dealing with lots of growthpains.
Um and so it's it's been uh it'sbeen a fun journey here for the
first couple years uh in thisrole.
(04:28):
But uh it's been a lot of funtoo.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Yeah, looking at your background, um you've kind
of led a lot of different typesof transformations, right?
Like um cloud migrations, MA, MAintegrations, legacy systems or
retiring legacy systems.
I'm curious, like you know,digital transformation is kind
of this term that is sogeneralized and means different
(04:52):
things.
But for you and everything thatyou've learned in each one of
these uh, I guess roles in yourlife, what are some common
themes that you're seeing?
And what do you bring to bear uhin those lessons here at
Generali today?
SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
Yeah, uh a great uh kind of opening uh part of this
discussion.
I think you know, I I'm withyou.
The digital transformation term,uh we've been doing digital
transformation as CIOs foryears, right?
It's just now now the term is umis uh focused on the fact that
(05:29):
we we are digitizing assets aswell, I think.
Um but in reality, you know,we're following a lot of the
same principles that I'vefollowed at every company, no
matter what the size has been.
And so as the technologylandscapes are changing, uh you
know, innovation you know, kindof has to be at the core of your
DNA as you're moving alongthere, um, at with the
(05:52):
technology of uh we'll say thetime.
Um each of those transformationsuh has always been about growth,
speed to market, you know,revenue, uh, and then and
retaining customers uh tocontinue the sustainability of
your of your company.
Uh and and so um that has notchanged.
(06:12):
Uh and then likewise we'realways worrying about budget and
and costs, and we have to makesure we're managing it within
our abilities and capabilities.
Um and so I'd say that the thelast thing that um you know
we're all kind of bound by iswe're also only as good as that
last customer interaction.
So our job is to create thoseteams and those capabilities
(06:35):
that satisfy both your internaland your external customers, and
in some cases, even with MAactivity.
And we're bringing in a newcompany, we're carving out a
company, and we're we're mergingthat in, you want to make that
that those new employees andthat new business units welcome
and able to hit the ground asfast as they possibly can run
it.
So uh those are really someimportant aspects, I think, to
(06:57):
the digital transformation umquestion.
I think you know today when whenwhen we all think of digital
transformation, AI is clearly atthe forefront, automation
clearly at the forefront, dataand data science and
capabilities clearly at theforefront.
Um but I think we're alsostarting to see, not that it
(07:19):
wasn't in the in the minds ofeverybody over the last 20, 25
years, but you know, how are yougoing to be a disruptor in your
space?
Uh, I think is really important.
I think one of the excitingthings that we're seeing is that
the ability to be a disruptor isjust magnified today.
It has it has grown um to a veryfast pace with some of these new
(07:41):
technologies that are nowarising.
And um, you know, I think that'sthat's kind of one of the very
fun parts that uh that I thinkwe all have to look forward to
in the in the coming you knowmonths, years ahead.
Um you still gotta do all thetraditional things you've done,
don't get me wrong.
Um you know, you've got todefine your vision and your
strategy, and you've gotta havethe right people.
(08:03):
Uh, and if you don't have theright people, or you do have the
right people, but they just neednew skills, you've got to train
them.
If you don't have the rightpeople, you gotta find the right
people, which we're all tryingto do.
Um, I think the the key is alsoaround key processes and that
foundation of why you'reactually doing the
transformation in the firstplace, um, and having strong uh
communication um and governancearound the technology you
(08:26):
select, why you selected it, um,and then you know, measure, you
know, cut measure twice and cutonce, kind of thing, right?
Yeah.
And you don't want to be redoingstuff.
And that's that's really thekind of stuff that I've learned
that I carry through in everytransformation.
I and I really don't see thatchanging.
It's gonna continue, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
For sure.
And I I do want to dig into theAI piece of this, but first I
want to cover just like thehuman-centricity um piece of the
way you've approached things,and you kind of mentioned before
with your psychology background,a lot of your work has been
about uniting teams, likebusiness teams with technology
teams, making sure that thosetransitions are are fundamental
(09:05):
before anything else.
Maybe you can speak to thatbecause so often I hear about
like agility and some of theKPIs that you're you're talking
about.
But in a world before AI, whenyou think about like having
teams gel and work well togetherto create that agility and that
transformation, what does thatlook like?
And what what has beenfoundational to you uh to do
(09:27):
that successfully?
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
Yeah, um really good question.
I think uh there's there's acouple different ways that I've
looked at this.
Um and certainly I think whenwhen you're a new uh CIO coming
into a new company, um you knowit's even heightened even
further.
But I I think you know, teams umuh when when they look at what
(09:53):
what we're gonna modernize, whatwe're gonna change, how we're
gonna shift foundations, um youknow, ultimately it's it's how
do you break down some of thosetraditional silos that have
existed.
Uh, and and they always existthere.
Uh and and that then boils downto how are we gonna collaborate?
And again, I'm gonna you'reprobably gonna hear me say this
(10:15):
a couple times, so I apologize.
Communication is is so critical.
Um I I think that regularcommunication and being able to
share the vision, the knowledge,and and build an understanding
of what those roles and whatthose teams need to do is really
important.
And and and that should stemlargely from the business
(10:38):
strategy, not from what mystrategy is, just as the CIO,
but what is the business tryingto achieve, right?
Where are they trying to get to?
And I've found over and over andover, those teams, especially
maybe earlier in my career, umthey've they've been kind of
left out of the loop, right?
And not really looked as part ofthe value change and the
(10:59):
strategic uh value uh brought tothe to the company.
And I think that's definitelychanged now.
So I I've always made it a pointto understand what the team's
capabilities are, um, not justwhen I first start at a new
role, but also my entire tenurethere, because it changes.
We got to invest in thosepeople.
(11:21):
Um and and be able to reallymake sure that they have um the
skill sets and the tools thatthey need to achieve the goals
that they are trying to achieve,not the goals that I want them
to achieve necessarily, but youknow, what is it, the things
that is important to them?
And if when you when you finallydo that, I've found that it's
it's helped you break throughsome of those silos very quickly
(11:45):
because that team is now reallyengaged and they're they're they
own part of that uh that visionand that strategy and that that
place that you're trying to goto.
So that's that's important.
I think today you know findingsome some of the skill sets,
whether you're cloud native uhor or not, I think uh is also
(12:08):
becoming more and morechallenging.
Um so you know, we're always onthe hunt for good people, like I
know you are and every othercompany out there.
Right.
Um I think you know, anotherkind of interesting take too is
you know, as you sort ofmodernize and you build that
global team structure, uh Ialways like I have to find
(12:29):
people that I I would say aregoing to be core.
They're our kind of right handin nature, but they're also the
the folks that can help beambassadors up to where you're
going uh and and carrying thatvision and carrying some of that
water out into the fields thereto help uh you know the seeds
(12:50):
grow.
So um I think it's important tohighlight that, and I think it's
important that you alsoregularly you kind of keep tabs
on on what the team's doing.
Are they getting burned out?
Obviously, we don't want that.
Um but even as you have thatcore team mentality with new
projects, I've always felt itwas important to say, hey, even
(13:10):
though you're not involved insay that new shiny tool or
technology that we're gonna bemoving, you are you still have a
purpose and you're helping keepthe business going and driving
forward.
And so um that that that's areally important tact to any
team uh dynamic, in my opinion,is that everybody needs to know
their purpose and where they'regoing, and then you gotta foster
them to to have a good timedoing it.
(13:31):
Uh I I think you know youmentioned that uh you know you
you kind of saw uh another uhpodcast that I did, which was
around kind of uh the careerside of things, but have fun
doing what you're doing, right?
And you'll go far.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Yeah, that um there's that human centricity
piece that I think is soimportant, especially in this
new world of AI that uh we'reentering into.
Because I do think that so muchis changing.
Um and part of the reason why westarted this podcast to begin
with is to try to find thesignal and the noise, uh,
(14:09):
especially with learners likeyou that have to navigate these
big transformations that have tokeep other people first.
But the tooling now is franklysomething that can maybe be a
little intimidating and scary,and frankly, just very just um
opaque.
Like how how do you adopt it andhow do you think about it?
So I think one of the things I'dlove to get into is you know,
(14:32):
one of your charters uh atGenerale is to try to figure out
okay, well, how do how do wetake this organization and move
it into this AI native future?
And I'm curious, just at a highlevel, what does that mean for
you?
Um I think like a lot of peopleare trying to think through
this.
And I would love just to hearyour initial thoughts around
number one, when you really knewthis charter was important and
(14:55):
how you started unpacking andthinking about it, given all of
the frameworks around how youdeal with people and
transformations that we justtalked about before.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, well, you know, fortunately, um we've had
a very clear directive uh fromour global CEO who has been
really telling us we need toembrace uh this this technology,
um, which is which is I thinkreally important.
Um when you've got your seniorleadership and your senior most
(15:25):
leader that is driving you, um,you know, you you tend to push
push pretty hard.
And I think the the key thingfor for all of us is that you no
longer can be sitting there umsaying, well, you know, I know
there's this AI thing that's outthere, and it's you know, it may
turn into something or not.
I I think we're well beyond thatat this point.
(15:47):
We we have to be asking withevery problem that comes up,
with every project, everyquestion, every business
objective, can AI help solvethat?
And if so, how?
Um, and start to embed thatreally into the culture uh uh of
IT, but certainly the culture ofthe business.
(16:08):
Um that's that is a scaryproposition, too, because as you
probably know, uh you know, themedia, the market, the stock
market, um just the direction ofwhere things are going are
constantly saying this is youknow going to you know uh
disrupt the workplace andpeople's jobs and lives, which
okay, very very well it it will.
(16:30):
But at the same time, too, it'sgoing to elevate many people to
do different new things, morevalue-generated things and
things that they weren't evencontemplating that they could
do.
And so I think as as we'rethinking about it, it's been two
years already since we startedour you know really heavy focus
(16:50):
on it with some pilots and withPOCs.
Um we we started contemplatingthe idea do you build versus
buy?
Um, and and we started down theprocess of building too, and you
quickly find that um that's adifficult challenge, right?
And and uh I think uh animportant part for me, anyways,
is I want to leverage companies,and you know your company is a
(17:12):
great example.
That's your if it's your corebusiness, right?
Leverage the folks that aredoing it 24-7 and extend it, but
don't try to reproduce it perse.
Um and so uh I think that'sthat's an important part of the
new AI uh universe.
Um there's also components to itthat you know, frankly, we don't
(17:33):
know where we're gonna go orwhere it's gonna lead us to,
which creates some uh aversionto to to testing and trying.
But I think if you're not doingthose things, you're gonna
quickly realize that you mightnot be able to catch up.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
So totally.
There's there's actually twopieces that I want to unpack a
little bit.
The first is kind of anupskilling piece, like to your
point, really making sure peopleare like, look, we need to start
embracing this technology andhow can it help us work better,
faster, more efficiently?
Uh, and then the second one islike, how do we think about
implementing it to then providebusiness value?
(18:11):
So maybe starting with theupskilling piece, you've
obviously been involved inupskilling, reducing attrition
throughout your career.
With this kind of AI mandate,how have you viewed um
introducing this to the teamsthat you manage and oversee?
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Well, uh I, you know, I have so I I regularly
have uh ITL hands meetings forone.
So uh I think it was I wasprobably six months into this
role where one of the thingsthat I had put out there was you
got to start thinking about thisnow.
And I want to start seeingpeople come to me directly with
(18:52):
ideas and thoughts around wheredo you think that that AI can um
help us?
Where do you think you seeopportunities?
And I was thinking largely fromjust my own team and how we
operate, so it's still fairlynew to the to the to the org,
but then also you know, ouroperations team has taken uh uh
really heavy deep dive into uhhow they're going to streamline
(19:16):
customer service, claims, etc.
And so uh making sure that myteam was was well aware of that
was first.
But you know, I go back to whatI just said, it it was start to
instill a cloud first, an AIfirst, a uh a new tech first
kind of uh point of view uh withthe team.
(19:36):
So it's not just thrown on topand then they go, Well, I I
didn't even know this wascoming, I I couldn't prepare.
Um so the communication part outto your team and really
understanding what that team'scapabilities uh can do, I think
is is so critically importantbecause um you want that um you
(20:00):
want that team and you wantthose skills that are really
critical to come to fruition,whether you develop them
internally or in some cases,yeah, you do have to bring in
other folks.
Um I'll give you an example ofone thing that uh we just
recently did as an extension ofthis multi-year journey we've
been on with kind of changingour organization.
I had my leadership uh have anoff-site just recently, and I
(20:24):
asked them, I want you to do aSWOT analysis of your team.
Where where do you feel we areat?
Where do you feel we're going tobe?
And how are we going to ensurethat we can embrace the new
technology uh landscapes thatthat we're that we're moving
towards, right?
Um, and then what things do wesee that we we we don't have
(20:45):
that we need?
Um and I'd say last thing lastbut not least, don't be afraid
to move those pieces of thepuzzle around a little bit
because you do learn about uh alot of a lot of things that you
might not have known about whatyour team was capable of doing
if you just kind of pigeonhole.
So um I I've traditionallythroughout my career done a lot
(21:07):
of that uh where I'm settled andthen like kind of see that maybe
this makes more sense withhaving this person or that
person take on some new thingsand see where that takes us.
So does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
That totally makes sense.
And I think uh that the SWOTanalysis and kind of the
self-reflection around like hey,let's let's take like a current
assessment and inventory of howthings are going with the team,
and uh especially with these newtoolings, whether it's AI or
not, how can we how can we bebetter?
Um yeah, that's definitelyimpactful.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
It was eye-opening, honestly.
It was a very good exercise.
Yeah.
And and to be honest, I don'tknow, I don't know how many
teams do that anymore.
Yeah, but it's always been areally, really uh valuable tool
and insights and it it it spawnsmore conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Absolutely.
So just outside of um just thatuh efficiency that that
reflection can bring, what isyour like thought or your point
of view around like where AI isactually having impact within an
organization like yours?
Because it sounds like there's alot of discovery that's
happening right now.
You're making sure there'sobviously the executive mandate
(22:18):
um from your CEO, yourself toyour teams, uh, some
experimentation, but where areyou seeing signal or threads
that you want to pull on morethat you're very excited about?
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Yeah, well, um, you know, make no doubt about it.
There I think the the theenterprise kind of landscape um
is not gonna look the same ayear from now as it does today.
So um I I think we're seeingalready how uh it's starting to
(22:53):
kind of get revolutionized inthe process automation front.
Um I think we're seeing how uhorganizations are are are really
enabling how to streamlinethemselves, um, obviously
boosting productivity and andwe're all trying to get to
unlocking kind of newefficiencies, only doing it at a
(23:14):
scale.
And so, you know, I think thoseare are um are really starting
to to make an impact.
Um I I do think that um we'regonna start to quickly see us
evolve beyond that, though.
Um and and we're havingconversations, I know, uh on our
(23:35):
side now about you know how dowe kind of cross over the
different uh bridges into theinner relationships between our
functional areas um and with ourcustomers?
They're pushing us.
Um and and so I think I thinkkind of going back to the team,
um as we talk about those thoseuh uh opportunities, I'm asking
(24:01):
myself, are our teams ready andable to focus on kind of that
higher value uh proposition ifwe start to introduce some of
those new AI capabilities?
Uh and that's where I think wehave an opportunity to also uh
uh grow the capabilities of ourexisting teams to to kind of
(24:22):
work in in harmony with the AIuh agents and with the
automation processes.
Um and you know, I I kind ofthink that's that's the next
evolution.
Um I think the market itself istelling you where they're going.
Uh so I I I pay close attentionto what what are what what what
(24:46):
are the companies that aredeveloping the tooling doing?
What are the companies that are,I'd say, the the early adopters
doing, the large enterprisesdoing?
And you're seeing a huge, hugeamount of investment.
Um and I heard somewhererecently, I was indeed, you
know, we might hit globally like$375,$400 billion of investment
(25:08):
on AI infrastructure and toolsalone.
And I don't see that stopping.
So what's that tell you?
That tells you that um thisisn't hype, it's not going away.
And and if you think back 20years, um we all were sitting
there where the market wastelling you, well, you're gonna
have these little phones andyou're gonna be able to
(25:28):
basically do what you do on yourlaptop and your desktop.
Um, and we're all going, ah,there's no way.
You know, that's that's lightyears away from where we're at.
Well, here we are, our phonesare more powerful than our those
computers used to be, and we'rewe can't live without it now.
And it's an integral componentto our our capabilities.
And so that's where that's wherethis uh market is taking us.
(25:52):
Um and you've got to be readingthose tea leaves to start to
say, I better start planning forthat and and and and make sure
that we're building it becausethose capabilities, I mean, you
see it probably faster than Ido, but it's exponentially
growing.
Um and it's growing so fast,it's almost it's almost
(26:13):
impossible to keep up with, um,and it's overwhelming.
So I would say hone in on thosethose really high impact um, you
know, maybe use cases or thingsthat you say this is going to
make uh an impact and start andand and go from there.
Um, but it it's it's gonna be awild ride.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
Um I mean, speaking of the use cases, do you have
any like generalized advice?
Like if another CIO is listeningto this, and there's so many
places where you know AI couldhave impact.
Is there something where you'relike, hey, this is a great
low-hanging fruit place for youto start potentially solving
with AI?
What would you recommend?
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
I I mean I think the the obvious one is going to be
in customer service.
Um uh and and and it doesn'thave to be externally facing
customer service.
I think you could lookinternally, uh, by the way, even
with NIT, how we support our endusers.
Um there is so much wasted timeuh that exists in so many
(27:20):
processes, um, but you know,there's also so much wasted time
trying to find the answer whenAI honestly can do that at you
know lightning fast and give youthe most current, most frequent
and uh objective um you knowanswer that that you need.
Um so I think customer serviceis honestly it's it's a
(27:43):
no-brainer.
Um because then those customerservice people, instead of
fumbling around trying to findan answer or type an email,
which again, like copilot andand many other tools that are
out there uh enable you to do.
But I don't I don't truly thinkthat uh enough people are are
are playing with it and andunderstand just how impactful
(28:07):
and how much time is wasted on adaily basis across uh an
organization.
Um so uh I I would say if you'rea CIO, look internally, look at
yourself.
Honestly, look there first.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Yeah, I've heard it goes into the self-reflection
piece and understanding like thereal metrics around you know
time uh potentially wasted intrying to figure these things
out.
You mentioned the uh customer uhsupport or success just
internally.
I've heard this before, thisinternal knowledge base that
(28:43):
just makes it really easy forpeople to look for the
information that they're tryingto find very quickly without
fumbling, right?
And that can just reduce so muchtime.
So much time.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
And and I'm sure you've seen it, uh, I've seen it
over and over and over and overin every business I've been a
part of, especially establishedcompanies that have been around
a while, they got silos of stuffeverywhere, right?
Some of which, much of which isduplicative, um, but also
outdated, right?
And so wading through thatminutiae of what is the right
(29:18):
answer, what is the currentanswer, and what is the best
approach, um, I just show is aphenomenal opportunity for for
any company, right?
And and you know, that's that'ssomething that uh until you dig
in and you start doing thatretro, you know, kind of
reflective, retrospective uhanalysis, uh sometimes you just
(29:39):
you're looking right at it andyou don't see it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Yeah, so I think another thing that I uh that is
related that I wanted to talk toyou about is when you were at
Soul Technologies, a lot of yourfocus was on like data hygiene
and making sure that data wasclean and so much of what AI
needs is information.
So it feels like There's aprerequisite to leveraging these
tools around data hygiene beforeyou can even start layering on
(30:07):
AI.
Maybe you can speak to that alittle bit.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
You're speaking my language right there.
I mean, data is such afoundational component to AI
today.
That you know, we've we've allbeen trying to make sure that we
can use and put data in thehands of the people that need it
when they need it, how they needit, to make the best business
(30:31):
decision possible.
Today, um, let's face it, uh AIis is is is not the panacea.
It's not gonna just, I pluggedit in and now it's gonna solve
my problem.
So the the problems get solvedand it learns by having good,
clean data at its fingertips.
(30:53):
And so I I you know, yes, we'vemade great strides uh in in
prior companies, Soltec andAnchor and COFAX, etc.
Um, but uh each time it boilsdown to data governance,
identifying your data, um,eliminating silos, mastering
(31:15):
your data, data definitions,data hierarchies.
Um and if we don't feed thatengine with uh a really strong
solid foundation, my worry, andI'm sure the worry of many other
folks in our seats, is that AIcan actually do a lot of damage
(31:37):
uh as well, right?
And so that then bleeds you offinto well, okay, well, how do
you prevent that and how do youhow do you foster good use of AI
and the ethics around it and youknow frameworks, etc.
Um, but uh I mean we're we'reundertaking the same uh endeavor
(31:57):
currently here.
It's about let's make sure we'rewe're producing that solid
foundation, um, not not just forAI, but all overall for all of
our analytics, et cetera.
So uh it and it's and it's ifyou can't tell, it's one of
those topics that actually I'mkind of passionate about.
I I really, really stronglybelieve if you're if you have a
(32:18):
good data foundation, um, yousolve a lot of lot of problems
that you probably are facing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
Yeah, I think I mean it's kind of as the saying goes,
garbage in, garbage out.
And I think that people don'tpeople do not realize the
importance of that data hygieneand getting it set up so the AI
has the information um that itneeds to help you, right?
And I think um you kind ofmentioned, I think, uh in
engaging with these differenttools that the if you don't do
(32:46):
it in the right way, the AI canactually do damage.
And I wondered like how youthink about that, because a lot
of uh your responsibility isaround risk mitigation.
So when you're talking, sowhether it's build versus buy,
how are you thinking about riskmitigation in a world where the
AI does have access to a lot ofthings?
Like, do you have any ways thatyou're thinking about engaging
(33:06):
with vendors or different toolsor new types of security
measures that you'reimplementing?
Anything you can share there?
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Um well, it it it's a it's a it's a broad topic.
Um you know, and I would say anyvendor we we engage with now, um
we are we are doing uh as mostcompanies, a lot of companies
probably are, a much, much morethorough kind of validation of
(33:36):
their capabilities related totheir security posture, um
validating and proving that theyare uh you know certified, they
have their SOC compliance, theirNIST certified, they're uh
whatever.
Um and you know, if if you'renot there, um you know you're
(33:59):
you're kind of disqualified.
And so, you know, that that'skind of the first thing with the
vendors.
I think the other side of thevendor equation is is um, you
know, the ones that you do workwith, partner with, um, I think
that the next phase of that isis how do they help uh further
(34:19):
your your strategic vision,right?
And and how do you embed theminto the process so they are now
uh is kind of as an extension ofyour own team, right?
They they are the team that thatgives you that expertise,
perhaps that that you you youcan't hire, uh you don't need to
hire, it's not your core kind ofcapability, whatever.
(34:42):
Um, and so for me, uh ensuringthat we have a framework around
okay, how are we going tofunction, how are we going to
operate, how are we going tomeasure success, um, how are we
going to ensure that you stilldo your part as a as a as a
partner with keeping up withcompliance and regulatory needs
and security needs, and youknow, we're all being just
(35:03):
bombarded 24-7 by the outsidetrying to get in.
Um and so uh it's it's it's uhit's it's a it's a complicated
question.
And then when you add in AI uhand and potentially uh you know
how AI could we'll say trickleout into uh all the different
(35:28):
respective crevices of datapoints and areas within your
enterprise, um it can certainlyexpose weaknesses, it can
certainly expose data to peoplewho should not see it, it can
expose secrets, it could exposethe outside to the inside world,
which you absolutely do not wantto have, and and heaven forbid
(35:48):
you expose PII or PHI.
Um it's it it it's kind of thething that keeps me up at night,
frankly.
Um as much power and as muchgood we have the potential to
see, uh, there's a lot of riskthat that that uh also is
inherent.
That um you you have to betalking with your board, with
(36:11):
your leadership, with theexecutive staff constantly about
it, because it's also changingvery fast.
And and uh I think that's theimportant part too, talking to
vendors.
I want you as a vendor andpartner to be keeping me abreast
of some of the stuff that I'mnot gonna read in a journal or
on a blog or whatever, too.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
So so yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And and speaking uh about thosevendors, there are so many new
tools are coming onto the marketso fast.
And I think to your point,around doing your diligence,
around making sure they have theright security posture and also
are going to be the rightpartner for you long term is is
(36:49):
so important.
So I mean, I I I think to thatend, I'd love to hear are there
any emerging tools or platformsthat have passed that test that
are catching your attention,that you're interested in um
evaluating is something thatmight actually be able to help
within your organization?
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Yeah, uh well, that's that's a that's a tough
question because every time Ithink I've found one that uh is
the you know a way to go,another one pops up that I was
like, holy crap, that that wasunexpected.
So um I I I would say I I don'thave um like oh these are the
(37:29):
must-haves.
What I what I what I can tellyou is that we're always on the
lookout for uh the ones who areare presenting um solutions or
at least uh talking to the theworld that they can help solve
solutions that I have.
Uh and in fact, this is this iskind of how we we got engaged
(37:52):
with Xena, right?
Uh and how we've started tolearn about what your
capabilities are.
Um so you know, I think Lindy isone that recently uh has been an
interesting no-code platformthat I thought was, oh, this is
a way to kind of custom createyour AI agents but still
(38:13):
handling really complex flowsand um problems that that we
have that um doesn't reallyrequire a super, super heavy
technical uh you know kind of umcapability.
I think um you know gum loop isis an interesting automation
tool, specific to the marketingkind of use cases, which um you
(38:39):
know we all get hit by marketingstuff constantly, so maybe I
shouldn't be promoting themarketing side because it'll
just you know foster more stuffcoming at us.
But I think the the the fun partabout that, if you want to call
it that, is that you know how doyou how do you uh tap into all
of that intelligence and datathat's out there?
(39:01):
And my God, I mean there's somuch data out there that um I
think businesses haveopportunities to really improve
what they're how what they'reselling, what they're sending,
how they're communicating, howthey're connecting.
That that one just lookedintriguing uh because it's also
talking about you knowconnecting LLMs with internal
kind of flows, etc., which Ithought was kind of novel.
(39:24):
But uh, you know, as much as Ithink those are the cool ones,
tomorrow I'm gonna readsomething else and be like,
well, that goes in the trash,and now I got something
definitely I gotta worry aboutor think about.
So um and that's and that andand honestly, I think for for
those of us in this this world,it it's almost one of the fun
parts about our jobs is thatwe're we're on the cusp of just
(39:46):
some really amazingtechnological advances um that
uh you know can kind of make youreally question the status quo,
think differently, which Ialways try to push people to do,
you gotta be thinkingdifferently.
But just um, you know, watchingit too is kind of kind of fun.
So I don't know, we'll see whattomorrow brings.
SPEAKER_00 (40:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, that uh that makes a lotof sense.
You know, you you said somethingearlier about um kind of the war
for talent, and I wanted to justtouch briefly on like kind of
the talent equation in this ageof AI.
Um how do you think about likeskill sets or mindsets that
people need to have in order tobe valuable in this market,
(40:30):
especially as you think aboutbuilding your own team and
upskilling your own team?
What are what are some of theframeworks or things that you
think about that uh are justcritical uh moving into the era?
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
So when I think of talent, it's it's an interesting
topic because uh I just hadanother conversation on a
different podcast about thisvery topic.
And uh I do worry a little bitabout the fact that we are
spinning through a lot of cyclesuh uh when we're evaluating um
(41:02):
candidates because they are nowproducing unicorns on paper,
right?
But the problem that I'm reallystruggling with, and I think I
know my team, and I'm sure manyother teams struggle with, is
when you start to talk aboutwhat's on that paper, there's no
substance there.
And so um we are always tryingto drive towards understanding
(41:29):
uh, yes, what's your technicalum capabilities?
Do you really have the skillsthat you said you you have?
I'm looking for attitude andaptitude always, um, because
let's face it, you're not gonnaknow everything I need.
I just need to know that I canget you into the zone that I
need you to get to.
Um but we're all we're alllooking for the that same talent
(41:51):
right now.
Um and uh I I think I thinkwe're gonna all face a bit of a
shortage here over the firstcouple of years, the next couple
years, because it doesn'tnecessarily exist yet.
Uh and you know, the we'll saythe frameworks of of how people
can get educated, even the eventhis the educational component
(42:14):
in colleges and high schools,we're just starting to see full
curriculums that are gearedright at AI.
And and and there's new ones allthe time.
But two years ago, you heard alittle bit about it.
It was it was something thatpeople were thinking about, but
it's it's accelerated so quicklythat I think we've got some
(42:35):
catch up to do.
And so the fight for talent isis brutal, uh honestly.
Um and we're all struggling withit.
Um so we'll see where it lands.
SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
Yeah, and I think you're you're bringing up an
important point, and this issomething I was talking to
someone earlier about, wherewe're kind of in this space
where people are sacrificingskill development for speed.
And to your point, they'll puttogether this unicorn framework
or um or resume.
And then once you go into thenuances or details, they haven't
(43:07):
quite learned it yet, so theycan't speak to it.
And so I think of the uh youknow, something important I'm
pulling away is like, you know,uh take your time.
Like, yes, leverage AI can be anamazing boon and hugely
beneficial to help you learn,but make sure that you learn it,
right?
And so if you're interrogatedabout it and you're asked about
it, you can speak.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Yeah, and and I I I think because we're at that
point in time I'd rather you behonest with me about where
exactly you are.
And if I see the potential inyou, I'm gonna develop you,
right?
I I I will invest in you.
Uh, and that doesn't mean justexternal, but internal people
(43:49):
too on on your teams.
Um, and I and I think that's animportant thing because you just
kind of hit the nail on thehead.
We want speed, we want it, butwe want it yesterday.
But our velocity to be able tolook to deliver in today's uh
environment is not, you know,we're not hitting on all
(44:10):
cylinders yet.
So we have some ramp up periodto get there.
And uh as much as, don't takethis the wrong way, as much as
our vendors are always saying wecan do it today, I know you
can't, because you're in thesame kind of boat.
You can do an awful lot more,but a year from now, those
products are going to be uh youknow rock solid and improved in
(44:31):
ways that um you know we werehoping to see today.
So it's a journey.
It's I I like to think of it,you know, this is a marathon.
Um, this is not just a singlesprint 40-yard dash that we're
trying to all get to, and thenit's all hey, we're all good.
No, we're we're far from there.
Yeah, and and I guarantee you,five years from now, uh ten
years from now, we'll be going,wow, I didn't see that one
(44:54):
coming.
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
So yeah, well, that that's that's kind of where I
wanted to close.
You know, this is future-proof,and we're you know thinking
about looking ahead.
I wanted to ask if you had tomake one bold prediction about
how AI will reshape enterpriseIT in the next five to ten
years, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Yeah, that's a scary one.
Um, and and I I'm sure that ummany people who who listen to
this probably will be going,okay, uh maybe I maybe I gotta
make some changes, but I think Ithink AI, um, like we said, it's
gonna transform how we how weoperate.
There's no no two ways aroundit.
(45:33):
Um I think what we're gonna seeis that much of what we'll
consider that middle ground ofmany IT organizations is going
to start to get whittled away.
Um and and uh you know somethingwe haven't really talked about,
but when you when you thinkabout where AI is going in the
(45:55):
context of its capabilities, uhit's learning all the time, it's
it's it's becoming more uh more,I don't want to say human-like,
but ultimately it will getthere, right?
And it's it's it's being able todo more critical thinking.
And so as that happens, it'sgonna reach that that
superagency uh level where Ithink a lot of those mid-level
(46:20):
decision makings andorchestrations and and um uh
things that we take for grantedtoday with with much of the IT
staff is is gonna change um andpossibly even be removed.
Um and so what does that mean?
Um that means we are gonna haveuh you know kind of a shift
(46:44):
coming from that uh productivityboast and agentic AI automation,
workflow automation kind ofmindset to um that new
enterprise view that iscompletely different than what
we have today.
And um it's not just that we'reautomating single tasks or
(47:05):
single processes, but we'reactually automating and creating
a very flat layer of anorganization and in some cases
eliminating it, making us veryfast, creating a lot of uh you
know new capabilities.
But it's also, I think, going tobe uh uh uh uh able to help
(47:26):
generate massive gains, but uh Ithink it's gonna also create a
lot of disruption, which is alittle scary.
And I I don't think a lot of theuh conversation is around right
now, that right now, becauseit's an uncomfortable
conversation.
And yeah, you know, it reallyshouldn't be because if if done
correctly, we're just kind ofintroducing what I would say is
(47:50):
more of a hybrid mode of andI'll just say humans, people
working alongside in harmonywith AI.
Um now that could become a wholedifferent conversation or or
discussion in and of itself at afuture time.
Um but that's kind of like thefuturist view, and and I and I
(48:11):
just think you gotta realize ituh it's gonna it's gonna flip
everything on its head.
Um, and not just in IT.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Well, yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
And I think um that best casescenario though, where kind of
it's like the human AIco-creation and collaboration is
something that I really hopefor.
You know, I think that there'sto your point not a lot of
discussion around that, more ofa replacement, and it's it's
(48:41):
it's uncomfortable.
But I do think that there's aworld um, and I actually this is
something that I think might benon-consensus, but enterprises
in the careful way they'reevaluating these tools, how they
use them, especially whenthere's human centricity
involved, um, it's they'reprobably going to lead the way
in terms of the right way to dothis, right?
Because I think further downmarket, it's it's all about
(49:03):
experimentation, lack ofloyalty, where larger
organizations just have so muchmore at stake.
SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (49:09):
Yeah, for sure.
Um I yeah, I I I think uh, youknow, when you think about the
frameworks that are are even yetto be produced too that will
enable a lot of this to happen,it's gonna happen pretty
quickly.
Um, and and it's not a topicthat I am truly uh uh even
(49:29):
remotely uh an expert on.
But um, you know, you're seeingframeworks for AI development,
AI strategy, AI governance, AIcompliance, AI security, AI ops,
AI.
I mean, I it it it's it's uhit's a big shift.
So um we gotta keep our eye onit.
(49:50):
I think we we've got to embraceit.
Um, but we also have anopportunity right now that I
think is really important toalso make sure that going back
to what we said earlier, itdoesn't get out of control and
create more harm than good.
Yeah.
Um, and and I'm with you.
I I think that harmony betweenuh we as people and those agents
(50:15):
and that that that tech, um, youknow, there's a lot of people
who are thinking terminator-likestuff, which okay, you know, you
you can go there, but um if donewell, it it should unleash just
massive amounts of pro uh ofpossibility, massive amounts of
of things that we couldn't solvebefore, massive amounts of
(50:38):
savings and and also somethingwe haven't even talked about,
capability for people to juststart new enterprises and new
companies with very littlefootprint.
Um I mean that's an excitingthing for people to be thinking
about.
If you're diving in, um yeah,who knows what what might might
(50:59):
happen.
So, anyways, uh the the few thefuture will be fun.
SPEAKER_00 (51:06):
Future will be fun, and I think that's the perfect
place to end.
So, George, thank you so muchfor your time today.
I really appreciate it.
Um, I know that occasionally yousend uh or you share your
musings on uh LinkedIn, uh, butis there anywhere else where
people can find you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:19):
Yeah, I mean I'm I'm on uh I'm on Instagram and um
you know Facebook and the usualthe usual suspects.
I I stay away from the TikToksyou know stuff of the world, but
uh um yeah yeah well awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (51:34):
Well thank you thank you so much for your time.
I truly appreciate it.
And um yeah, it's been a greattime.
When you think about where AI is going in the context
of its capabilities, uh it'slearning all the time, it's
being able to do more criticalthinking.
And so as that happens, it'sgonna reach that that
superagency uh level.
I think a lot of those mid-leveldecision makings and
orchestrations and things thatwe take for granted today with
with much of the IT staff is isgonna change um and possibly
(00:24):
even be removed.
What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Hello, welcome to Future Proof.
My name is Perkash Chundred andI'm the CEO of Xeno.
Today I'm joined by George Bach,a seasoned technology leader who
spent the last 20 years helpingenterprises modernize their tech
foundations from cloudmigrations and MA integrations
to building global IT teams.
Now, as CIO at Generali GlobalAssistance, he's focused on
(01:03):
preparing organizations for anAI native future with systems
that are scalable, resilient,and human-centered.
Welcome, George.
Thanks for having me, Prakash.
It's a pleasure.
Maybe you can tell us a littlebit about your background
leading up to what you do today.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Yeah, I'd love to.
My background certainly is aninteresting uh group of twists
and turns.
Um, you know, funny enough, I Iuh I started my career uh really
not even in IT.
Um I was in more of anaccounting, finance, and
operations kind of role.
Um I found my way into uh ITreally through a project as the
(01:40):
uh business owner.
Um and and one thing that Ilearned that's really kind of
carried me throughout my careeris that line between what um
what what's needed and andwhat's produced, right?
And so uh as I've gone throughmy career, I've I've taken the
opportunity to uh also uh enjoythe opportunity to be in
(02:04):
multiple industries.
And so uh being in multipleindustries, I've I've had a
chance to see everything, spenta lot of time in manufacturing,
and then also in you know,deploying ERP systems and
software industry, uh, all theway up through to now I'm in you
know kind of the insurance uhspace.
So um each of those kind ofroles through my career has uh
(02:26):
helped me uh continue to togrow, learn more, but then also
apply uh what I've learned tothat new new uh new company.
So then even in there, I alsotook a stint uh as as an
entrepreneur to start my ownthing.
SPEAKER_00 (02:42):
Yeah, you did.
And one of the things also byway of background is you were a
psychology major, is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:48):
I was, yes, which is an unusual thing for most uh
college technologists or CIOs,but uh honestly I use that uh
all the time because my my wholegoal there was about learning
how to interact and work withpeople, lead people, um, and
then make better businessdecisions.
And I always had my my mytechnicals uh bend to my my
(03:11):
background too, but uh yeah,that's true.
SPEAKER_00 (03:13):
Yeah, I want to dig more into that, but before I do,
maybe you can talk a little bitabout the role you hold today
and like what your like broadercharter is.
SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
Yeah, so um I'm CIO for the North America Business
Unit of a very large financialservices and insurance company
based out of Italy.
My division is based out of outof Paris, and so we've been
experiencing uh rapid growth inthe travel uh insurance space,
(03:43):
and we we kind of do a couplethings.
Um we we are an insurancecompany, first and foremost, but
we're also a technology uhfocused company too, because we
we are um in the middle of thebuying path of those products
that we sell to uh some verylarge online travel agents such
as uh you know Expedia, all theway down to small uh online
(04:06):
travel providers.
Um and so uh it's been a it'sbeen an interesting journey
because uh we're we're tacklinga lot of change and we're
embracing technology to do that,but at the same time, too, we're
dealing with lots of growthpains.
Um and so it's it's been uh it'sbeen a fun journey here for the
first couple years uh in thisrole.
(04:28):
But uh it's been a lot of funtoo.
SPEAKER_00 (04:30):
Yeah, looking at your background, um you've kind
of led a lot of different typesof transformations, right?
Like um cloud migrations, MA, MAintegrations, legacy systems or
retiring legacy systems.
I'm curious, like you know,digital transformation is kind
of this term that is sogeneralized and means different
(04:52):
things.
But for you and everything thatyou've learned in each one of
these uh, I guess roles in yourlife, what are some common
themes that you're seeing?
And what do you bring to bear uhin those lessons here at
Generali today?
SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
Yeah, uh a great uh kind of opening uh part of this
discussion.
I think you know, I I'm withyou.
The digital transformation term,uh we've been doing digital
transformation as CIOs foryears, right?
It's just now now the term is umis uh focused on the fact that
(05:29):
we we are digitizing assets aswell, I think.
Um but in reality, you know,we're following a lot of the
same principles that I'vefollowed at every company, no
matter what the size has been.
And so as the technologylandscapes are changing, uh you
know, innovation you know, kindof has to be at the core of your
DNA as you're moving alongthere, um, at with the
(05:52):
technology of uh we'll say thetime.
Um each of those transformationsuh has always been about growth,
speed to market, you know,revenue, uh, and then and
retaining customers uh tocontinue the sustainability of
your of your company.
Uh and and so um that has notchanged.
(06:12):
Uh and then likewise we'realways worrying about budget and
and costs, and we have to makesure we're managing it within
our abilities and capabilities.
Um and so I'd say that the thelast thing that um you know
we're all kind of bound by iswe're also only as good as that
last customer interaction.
So our job is to create thoseteams and those capabilities
(06:35):
that satisfy both your internaland your external customers, and
in some cases, even with MAactivity.
And we're bringing in a newcompany, we're carving out a
company, and we're we're mergingthat in, you want to make that
that those new employees andthat new business units welcome
and able to hit the ground asfast as they possibly can run
it.
So uh those are really someimportant aspects, I think, to
(06:57):
the digital transformation umquestion.
I think you know today when whenwhen we all think of digital
transformation, AI is clearly atthe forefront, automation
clearly at the forefront, dataand data science and
capabilities clearly at theforefront.
Um but I think we're alsostarting to see, not that it
(07:19):
wasn't in the in the minds ofeverybody over the last 20, 25
years, but you know, how are yougoing to be a disruptor in your
space?
Uh, I think is really important.
I think one of the excitingthings that we're seeing is that
the ability to be a disruptor isjust magnified today.
It has it has grown um to a veryfast pace with some of these new
(07:41):
technologies that are nowarising.
And um, you know, I think that'sthat's kind of one of the very
fun parts that uh that I thinkwe all have to look forward to
in the in the coming you knowmonths, years ahead.
Um you still gotta do all thetraditional things you've done,
don't get me wrong.
Um you know, you've got todefine your vision and your
strategy, and you've gotta havethe right people.
(08:03):
Uh, and if you don't have theright people, or you do have the
right people, but they just neednew skills, you've got to train
them.
If you don't have the rightpeople, you gotta find the right
people, which we're all tryingto do.
Um, I think the the key is alsoaround key processes and that
foundation of why you'reactually doing the
transformation in the firstplace, um, and having strong uh
communication um and governancearound the technology you
(08:26):
select, why you selected it, um,and then you know, measure, you
know, cut measure twice and cutonce, kind of thing, right?
Yeah.
And you don't want to be redoingstuff.
And that's that's really thekind of stuff that I've learned
that I carry through in everytransformation.
I and I really don't see thatchanging.
It's gonna continue, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_00 (08:44):
For sure.
And I I do want to dig into theAI piece of this, but first I
want to cover just like thehuman-centricity um piece of the
way you've approached things,and you kind of mentioned before
with your psychology background,a lot of your work has been
about uniting teams, likebusiness teams with technology
teams, making sure that thosetransitions are are fundamental
(09:05):
before anything else.
Maybe you can speak to thatbecause so often I hear about
like agility and some of theKPIs that you're you're talking
about.
But in a world before AI, whenyou think about like having
teams gel and work well togetherto create that agility and that
transformation, what does thatlook like?
And what what has beenfoundational to you uh to do
(09:27):
that successfully?
SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
Yeah, um really good question.
I think uh there's there's acouple different ways that I've
looked at this.
Um and certainly I think whenwhen you're a new uh CIO coming
into a new company, um you knowit's even heightened even
further.
But I I think you know, teams umuh when when they look at what
(09:53):
what we're gonna modernize, whatwe're gonna change, how we're
gonna shift foundations, um youknow, ultimately it's it's how
do you break down some of thosetraditional silos that have
existed.
Uh, and and they always existthere.
Uh and and that then boils downto how are we gonna collaborate?
And again, I'm gonna you'reprobably gonna hear me say this
(10:15):
a couple times, so I apologize.
Communication is is so critical.
Um I I think that regularcommunication and being able to
share the vision, the knowledge,and and build an understanding
of what those roles and whatthose teams need to do is really
important.
And and and that should stemlargely from the business
(10:38):
strategy, not from what mystrategy is, just as the CIO,
but what is the business tryingto achieve, right?
Where are they trying to get to?
And I've found over and over andover, those teams, especially
maybe earlier in my career, umthey've they've been kind of
left out of the loop, right?
And not really looked as part ofthe value change and the
(10:59):
strategic uh value uh brought tothe to the company.
And I think that's definitelychanged now.
So I I've always made it a pointto understand what the team's
capabilities are, um, not justwhen I first start at a new
role, but also my entire tenurethere, because it changes.
We got to invest in thosepeople.
(11:21):
Um and and be able to reallymake sure that they have um the
skill sets and the tools thatthey need to achieve the goals
that they are trying to achieve,not the goals that I want them
to achieve necessarily, but youknow, what is it, the things
that is important to them?
And if when you when you finallydo that, I've found that it's
it's helped you break throughsome of those silos very quickly
(11:45):
because that team is now reallyengaged and they're they're they
own part of that uh that visionand that strategy and that that
place that you're trying to goto.
So that's that's important.
I think today you know findingsome some of the skill sets,
whether you're cloud native uhor or not, I think uh is also
(12:08):
becoming more and morechallenging.
Um so you know, we're always onthe hunt for good people, like I
know you are and every othercompany out there.
Right.
Um I think you know, anotherkind of interesting take too is
you know, as you sort ofmodernize and you build that
global team structure, uh Ialways like I have to find
(12:29):
people that I I would say aregoing to be core.
They're our kind of right handin nature, but they're also the
the folks that can help beambassadors up to where you're
going uh and and carrying thatvision and carrying some of that
water out into the fields thereto help uh you know the seeds
(12:50):
grow.
So um I think it's important tohighlight that, and I think it's
important that you alsoregularly you kind of keep tabs
on on what the team's doing.
Are they getting burned out?
Obviously, we don't want that.
Um but even as you have thatcore team mentality with new
projects, I've always felt itwas important to say, hey, even
(13:10):
though you're not involved insay that new shiny tool or
technology that we're gonna bemoving, you are you still have a
purpose and you're helping keepthe business going and driving
forward.
And so um that that that's areally important tact to any
team uh dynamic, in my opinion,is that everybody needs to know
their purpose and where they'regoing, and then you gotta foster
them to to have a good timedoing it.
(13:31):
Uh I I think you know youmentioned that uh you know you
you kind of saw uh another uhpodcast that I did, which was
around kind of uh the careerside of things, but have fun
doing what you're doing, right?
And you'll go far.
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Yeah, that um there's that human centricity
piece that I think is soimportant, especially in this
new world of AI that uh we'reentering into.
Because I do think that so muchis changing.
Um and part of the reason why westarted this podcast to begin
with is to try to find thesignal and the noise, uh,
(14:09):
especially with learners likeyou that have to navigate these
big transformations that have tokeep other people first.
But the tooling now is franklysomething that can maybe be a
little intimidating and scary,and frankly, just very just um
opaque.
Like how how do you adopt it andhow do you think about it?
So I think one of the things I'dlove to get into is you know,
(14:32):
one of your charters uh atGenerale is to try to figure out
okay, well, how do how do wetake this organization and move
it into this AI native future?
And I'm curious, just at a highlevel, what does that mean for
you?
Um I think like a lot of peopleare trying to think through
this.
And I would love just to hearyour initial thoughts around
number one, when you really knewthis charter was important and
(14:55):
how you started unpacking andthinking about it, given all of
the frameworks around how youdeal with people and
transformations that we justtalked about before.
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, well, you know, fortunately, um we've had
a very clear directive uh fromour global CEO who has been
really telling us we need toembrace uh this this technology,
um, which is which is I thinkreally important.
Um when you've got your seniorleadership and your senior most
(15:25):
leader that is driving you, um,you know, you you tend to push
push pretty hard.
And I think the the key thingfor for all of us is that you no
longer can be sitting there umsaying, well, you know, I know
there's this AI thing that's outthere, and it's you know, it may
turn into something or not.
I I think we're well beyond thatat this point.
(15:47):
We we have to be asking withevery problem that comes up,
with every project, everyquestion, every business
objective, can AI help solvethat?
And if so, how?
Um, and start to embed thatreally into the culture uh uh of
IT, but certainly the culture ofthe business.
(16:08):
Um that's that is a scaryproposition, too, because as you
probably know, uh you know, themedia, the market, the stock
market, um just the direction ofwhere things are going are
constantly saying this is youknow going to you know uh
disrupt the workplace andpeople's jobs and lives, which
okay, very very well it it will.
(16:30):
But at the same time, too, it'sgoing to elevate many people to
do different new things, morevalue-generated things and
things that they weren't evencontemplating that they could
do.
And so I think as as we'rethinking about it, it's been two
years already since we startedour you know really heavy focus
(16:50):
on it with some pilots and withPOCs.
Um we we started contemplatingthe idea do you build versus
buy?
Um, and and we started down theprocess of building too, and you
quickly find that um that's adifficult challenge, right?
And and uh I think uh animportant part for me, anyways,
is I want to leverage companies,and you know your company is a
(17:12):
great example.
That's your if it's your corebusiness, right?
Leverage the folks that aredoing it 24-7 and extend it, but
don't try to reproduce it perse.
Um and so uh I think that'sthat's an important part of the
new AI uh universe.
Um there's also components to itthat you know, frankly, we don't
(17:33):
know where we're gonna go orwhere it's gonna lead us to,
which creates some uh aversionto to to testing and trying.
But I think if you're not doingthose things, you're gonna
quickly realize that you mightnot be able to catch up.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
So totally.
There's there's actually twopieces that I want to unpack a
little bit.
The first is kind of anupskilling piece, like to your
point, really making sure peopleare like, look, we need to start
embracing this technology andhow can it help us work better,
faster, more efficiently?
Uh, and then the second one islike, how do we think about
implementing it to then providebusiness value?
(18:11):
So maybe starting with theupskilling piece, you've
obviously been involved inupskilling, reducing attrition
throughout your career.
With this kind of AI mandate,how have you viewed um
introducing this to the teamsthat you manage and oversee?
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
Well, uh I, you know, I have so I I regularly
have uh ITL hands meetings forone.
So uh I think it was I wasprobably six months into this
role where one of the thingsthat I had put out there was you
got to start thinking about thisnow.
And I want to start seeingpeople come to me directly with
(18:52):
ideas and thoughts around wheredo you think that that AI can um
help us?
Where do you think you seeopportunities?
And I was thinking largely fromjust my own team and how we
operate, so it's still fairlynew to the to the to the org,
but then also you know, ouroperations team has taken uh uh
really heavy deep dive into uhhow they're going to streamline
(19:16):
customer service, claims, etc.
And so uh making sure that myteam was was well aware of that
was first.
But you know, I go back to whatI just said, it it was start to
instill a cloud first, an AIfirst, a uh a new tech first
kind of uh point of view uh withthe team.
(19:36):
So it's not just thrown on topand then they go, Well, I I
didn't even know this wascoming, I I couldn't prepare.
Um so the communication part outto your team and really
understanding what that team'scapabilities uh can do, I think
is is so critically importantbecause um you want that um you
(20:00):
want that team and you wantthose skills that are really
critical to come to fruition,whether you develop them
internally or in some cases,yeah, you do have to bring in
other folks.
Um I'll give you an example ofone thing that uh we just
recently did as an extension ofthis multi-year journey we've
been on with kind of changingour organization.
I had my leadership uh have anoff-site just recently, and I
(20:24):
asked them, I want you to do aSWOT analysis of your team.
Where where do you feel we areat?
Where do you feel we're going tobe?
And how are we going to ensurethat we can embrace the new
technology uh landscapes thatthat we're that we're moving
towards, right?
Um, and then what things do wesee that we we we don't have
(20:45):
that we need?
Um and I'd say last thing lastbut not least, don't be afraid
to move those pieces of thepuzzle around a little bit
because you do learn about uh alot of a lot of things that you
might not have known about whatyour team was capable of doing
if you just kind of pigeonhole.
So um I I've traditionallythroughout my career done a lot
(21:07):
of that uh where I'm settled andthen like kind of see that maybe
this makes more sense withhaving this person or that
person take on some new thingsand see where that takes us.
So does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
That totally makes sense.
And I think uh that the SWOTanalysis and kind of the
self-reflection around like hey,let's let's take like a current
assessment and inventory of howthings are going with the team,
and uh especially with these newtoolings, whether it's AI or
not, how can we how can we bebetter?
Um yeah, that's definitelyimpactful.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
It was eye-opening, honestly.
It was a very good exercise.
Yeah.
And and to be honest, I don'tknow, I don't know how many
teams do that anymore.
Yeah, but it's always been areally, really uh valuable tool
and insights and it it it spawnsmore conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (21:56):
Absolutely.
So just outside of um just thatuh efficiency that that
reflection can bring, what isyour like thought or your point
of view around like where AI isactually having impact within an
organization like yours?
Because it sounds like there's alot of discovery that's
happening right now.
You're making sure there'sobviously the executive mandate
(22:18):
um from your CEO, yourself toyour teams, uh, some
experimentation, but where areyou seeing signal or threads
that you want to pull on morethat you're very excited about?
SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Yeah, well, um, you know, make no doubt about it.
There I think the the theenterprise kind of landscape um
is not gonna look the same ayear from now as it does today.
So um I I think we're seeingalready how uh it's starting to
(22:53):
kind of get revolutionized inthe process automation front.
Um I think we're seeing how uhorganizations are are are really
enabling how to streamlinethemselves, um, obviously
boosting productivity and andwe're all trying to get to
unlocking kind of newefficiencies, only doing it at a
(23:14):
scale.
And so, you know, I think thoseare are um are really starting
to to make an impact.
Um I I do think that um we'regonna start to quickly see us
evolve beyond that, though.
Um and and we're havingconversations, I know, uh on our
(23:35):
side now about you know how dowe kind of cross over the
different uh bridges into theinner relationships between our
functional areas um and with ourcustomers?
They're pushing us.
Um and and so I think I thinkkind of going back to the team,
um as we talk about those thoseuh uh opportunities, I'm asking
(24:01):
myself, are our teams ready andable to focus on kind of that
higher value uh proposition ifwe start to introduce some of
those new AI capabilities?
Uh and that's where I think wehave an opportunity to also uh
uh grow the capabilities of ourexisting teams to to kind of
(24:22):
work in in harmony with the AIuh agents and with the
automation processes.
Um and you know, I I kind ofthink that's that's the next
evolution.
Um I think the market itself istelling you where they're going.
Uh so I I I pay close attentionto what what are what what what
(24:46):
are the companies that aredeveloping the tooling doing?
What are the companies that are,I'd say, the the early adopters
doing, the large enterprisesdoing?
And you're seeing a huge, hugeamount of investment.
Um and I heard somewhererecently, I was indeed, you
know, we might hit globally like$375,$400 billion of investment
(25:08):
on AI infrastructure and toolsalone.
And I don't see that stopping.
So what's that tell you?
That tells you that um thisisn't hype, it's not going away.
And and if you think back 20years, um we all were sitting
there where the market wastelling you, well, you're gonna
have these little phones andyou're gonna be able to
(25:28):
basically do what you do on yourlaptop and your desktop.
Um, and we're all going, ah,there's no way.
You know, that's that's lightyears away from where we're at.
Well, here we are, our phonesare more powerful than our those
computers used to be, and we'rewe can't live without it now.
And it's an integral componentto our our capabilities.
And so that's where that's wherethis uh market is taking us.
(25:52):
Um and you've got to be readingthose tea leaves to start to
say, I better start planning forthat and and and and make sure
that we're building it becausethose capabilities, I mean, you
see it probably faster than Ido, but it's exponentially
growing.
Um and it's growing so fast,it's almost it's almost
(26:13):
impossible to keep up with, um,and it's overwhelming.
So I would say hone in on thosethose really high impact um, you
know, maybe use cases or thingsthat you say this is going to
make uh an impact and start andand and go from there.
Um, but it it's it's gonna be awild ride.
SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
Um I mean, speaking of the use cases, do you have
any like generalized advice?
Like if another CIO is listeningto this, and there's so many
places where you know AI couldhave impact.
Is there something where you'relike, hey, this is a great
low-hanging fruit place for youto start potentially solving
with AI?
What would you recommend?
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
I I mean I think the the obvious one is going to be
in customer service.
Um uh and and and it doesn'thave to be externally facing
customer service.
I think you could lookinternally, uh, by the way, even
with NIT, how we support our endusers.
Um there is so much wasted timeuh that exists in so many
(27:20):
processes, um, but you know,there's also so much wasted time
trying to find the answer whenAI honestly can do that at you
know lightning fast and give youthe most current, most frequent
and uh objective um you knowanswer that that you need.
Um so I think customer serviceis honestly it's it's a
(27:43):
no-brainer.
Um because then those customerservice people, instead of
fumbling around trying to findan answer or type an email,
which again, like copilot andand many other tools that are
out there uh enable you to do.
But I don't I don't truly thinkthat uh enough people are are
are playing with it and andunderstand just how impactful
(28:07):
and how much time is wasted on adaily basis across uh an
organization.
Um so uh I I would say if you'rea CIO, look internally, look at
yourself.
Honestly, look there first.
SPEAKER_00 (28:22):
Yeah, I've heard it goes into the self-reflection
piece and understanding like thereal metrics around you know
time uh potentially wasted intrying to figure these things
out.
You mentioned the uh customer uhsupport or success just
internally.
I've heard this before, thisinternal knowledge base that
(28:43):
just makes it really easy forpeople to look for the
information that they're tryingto find very quickly without
fumbling, right?
And that can just reduce so muchtime.
So much time.
SPEAKER_02 (28:53):
And and I'm sure you've seen it, uh, I've seen it
over and over and over and overin every business I've been a
part of, especially establishedcompanies that have been around
a while, they got silos of stuffeverywhere, right?
Some of which, much of which isduplicative, um, but also
outdated, right?
And so wading through thatminutiae of what is the right
(29:18):
answer, what is the currentanswer, and what is the best
approach, um, I just show is aphenomenal opportunity for for
any company, right?
And and you know, that's that'ssomething that uh until you dig
in and you start doing thatretro, you know, kind of
reflective, retrospective uhanalysis, uh sometimes you just
(29:39):
you're looking right at it andyou don't see it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Yeah, so I think another thing that I uh that is
related that I wanted to talk toyou about is when you were at
Soul Technologies, a lot of yourfocus was on like data hygiene
and making sure that data wasclean and so much of what AI
needs is information.
So it feels like There's aprerequisite to leveraging these
tools around data hygiene beforeyou can even start layering on
(30:07):
AI.
Maybe you can speak to that alittle bit.
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
You're speaking my language right there.
I mean, data is such afoundational component to AI
today.
That you know, we've we've allbeen trying to make sure that we
can use and put data in thehands of the people that need it
when they need it, how they needit, to make the best business
(30:31):
decision possible.
Today, um, let's face it, uh AIis is is is not the panacea.
It's not gonna just, I pluggedit in and now it's gonna solve
my problem.
So the the problems get solvedand it learns by having good,
clean data at its fingertips.
(30:53):
And so I I you know, yes, we'vemade great strides uh in in
prior companies, Soltec andAnchor and COFAX, etc.
Um, but uh each time it boilsdown to data governance,
identifying your data, um,eliminating silos, mastering
(31:15):
your data, data definitions,data hierarchies.
Um and if we don't feed thatengine with uh a really strong
solid foundation, my worry, andI'm sure the worry of many other
folks in our seats, is that AIcan actually do a lot of damage
(31:37):
uh as well, right?
And so that then bleeds you offinto well, okay, well, how do
you prevent that and how do youhow do you foster good use of AI
and the ethics around it and youknow frameworks, etc.
Um, but uh I mean we're we'reundertaking the same uh endeavor
(31:57):
currently here.
It's about let's make sure we'rewe're producing that solid
foundation, um, not not just forAI, but all overall for all of
our analytics, et cetera.
So uh it and it's and it's ifyou can't tell, it's one of
those topics that actually I'mkind of passionate about.
I I really, really stronglybelieve if you're if you have a
(32:18):
good data foundation, um, yousolve a lot of lot of problems
that you probably are facing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
Yeah, I think I mean it's kind of as the saying goes,
garbage in, garbage out.
And I think that people don'tpeople do not realize the
importance of that data hygieneand getting it set up so the AI
has the information um that itneeds to help you, right?
And I think um you kind ofmentioned, I think, uh in
engaging with these differenttools that the if you don't do
(32:46):
it in the right way, the AI canactually do damage.
And I wondered like how youthink about that, because a lot
of uh your responsibility isaround risk mitigation.
So when you're talking, sowhether it's build versus buy,
how are you thinking about riskmitigation in a world where the
AI does have access to a lot ofthings?
Like, do you have any ways thatyou're thinking about engaging
(33:06):
with vendors or different toolsor new types of security
measures that you'reimplementing?
Anything you can share there?
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Um well, it it it's a it's a it's a broad topic.
Um you know, and I would say anyvendor we we engage with now, um
we are we are doing uh as mostcompanies, a lot of companies
probably are, a much, much morethorough kind of validation of
(33:36):
their capabilities related totheir security posture, um
validating and proving that theyare uh you know certified, they
have their SOC compliance, theirNIST certified, they're uh
whatever.
Um and you know, if if you'renot there, um you know you're
(33:59):
you're kind of disqualified.
And so, you know, that that'skind of the first thing with the
vendors.
I think the other side of thevendor equation is is um, you
know, the ones that you do workwith, partner with, um, I think
that the next phase of that isis how do they help uh further
(34:19):
your your strategic vision,right?
And and how do you embed theminto the process so they are now
uh is kind of as an extension ofyour own team, right?
They they are the team that thatgives you that expertise,
perhaps that that you you youcan't hire, uh you don't need to
hire, it's not your core kind ofcapability, whatever.
(34:42):
Um, and so for me, uh ensuringthat we have a framework around
okay, how are we going tofunction, how are we going to
operate, how are we going tomeasure success, um, how are we
going to ensure that you stilldo your part as a as a as a
partner with keeping up withcompliance and regulatory needs
and security needs, and youknow, we're all being just
(35:03):
bombarded 24-7 by the outsidetrying to get in.
Um and so uh it's it's it's uhit's it's a it's a complicated
question.
And then when you add in AI uhand and potentially uh you know
how AI could we'll say trickleout into uh all the different
(35:28):
respective crevices of datapoints and areas within your
enterprise, um it can certainlyexpose weaknesses, it can
certainly expose data to peoplewho should not see it, it can
expose secrets, it could exposethe outside to the inside world,
which you absolutely do not wantto have, and and heaven forbid
(35:48):
you expose PII or PHI.
Um it's it it it's kind of thething that keeps me up at night,
frankly.
Um as much power and as muchgood we have the potential to
see, uh, there's a lot of riskthat that that uh also is
inherent.
That um you you have to betalking with your board, with
(36:11):
your leadership, with theexecutive staff constantly about
it, because it's also changingvery fast.
And and uh I think that's theimportant part too, talking to
vendors.
I want you as a vendor andpartner to be keeping me abreast
of some of the stuff that I'mnot gonna read in a journal or
on a blog or whatever, too.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
So so yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And and speaking uh about thosevendors, there are so many new
tools are coming onto the marketso fast.
And I think to your point,around doing your diligence,
around making sure they have theright security posture and also
are going to be the rightpartner for you long term is is
(36:49):
so important.
So I mean, I I I think to thatend, I'd love to hear are there
any emerging tools or platformsthat have passed that test that
are catching your attention,that you're interested in um
evaluating is something thatmight actually be able to help
within your organization?
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Yeah, uh well, that's that's a that's a tough
question because every time Ithink I've found one that uh is
the you know a way to go,another one pops up that I was
like, holy crap, that that wasunexpected.
So um I I I would say I I don'thave um like oh these are the
(37:29):
must-haves.
What I what I what I can tellyou is that we're always on the
lookout for uh the ones who areare presenting um solutions or
at least uh talking to the theworld that they can help solve
solutions that I have.
Uh and in fact, this is this iskind of how we we got engaged
(37:52):
with Xena, right?
Uh and how we've started tolearn about what your
capabilities are.
Um so you know, I think Lindy isone that recently uh has been an
interesting no-code platformthat I thought was, oh, this is
a way to kind of custom createyour AI agents but still
(38:13):
handling really complex flowsand um problems that that we
have that um doesn't reallyrequire a super, super heavy
technical uh you know kind of umcapability.
I think um you know gum loop isis an interesting automation
tool, specific to the marketingkind of use cases, which um you
(38:39):
know we all get hit by marketingstuff constantly, so maybe I
shouldn't be promoting themarketing side because it'll
just you know foster more stuffcoming at us.
But I think the the the fun partabout that, if you want to call
it that, is that you know how doyou how do you uh tap into all
of that intelligence and datathat's out there?
(39:01):
And my God, I mean there's somuch data out there that um I
think businesses haveopportunities to really improve
what they're how what they'reselling, what they're sending,
how they're communicating, howthey're connecting.
That that one just lookedintriguing uh because it's also
talking about you knowconnecting LLMs with internal
kind of flows, etc., which Ithought was kind of novel.
(39:24):
But uh, you know, as much as Ithink those are the cool ones,
tomorrow I'm gonna readsomething else and be like,
well, that goes in the trash,and now I got something
definitely I gotta worry aboutor think about.
So um and that's and that andand honestly, I think for for
those of us in this this world,it it's almost one of the fun
parts about our jobs is thatwe're we're on the cusp of just
(39:46):
some really amazingtechnological advances um that
uh you know can kind of make youreally question the status quo,
think differently, which Ialways try to push people to do,
you gotta be thinkingdifferently.
But just um, you know, watchingit too is kind of kind of fun.
So I don't know, we'll see whattomorrow brings.
SPEAKER_00 (40:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, that uh that makes a lotof sense.
You know, you you said somethingearlier about um kind of the war
for talent, and I wanted to justtouch briefly on like kind of
the talent equation in this ageof AI.
Um how do you think about likeskill sets or mindsets that
people need to have in order tobe valuable in this market,
(40:30):
especially as you think aboutbuilding your own team and
upskilling your own team?
What are what are some of theframeworks or things that you
think about that uh are justcritical uh moving into the era?
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
So when I think of talent, it's it's an interesting
topic because uh I just hadanother conversation on a
different podcast about thisvery topic.
And uh I do worry a little bitabout the fact that we are
spinning through a lot of cyclesuh uh when we're evaluating um
(41:02):
candidates because they are nowproducing unicorns on paper,
right?
But the problem that I'm reallystruggling with, and I think I
know my team, and I'm sure manyother teams struggle with, is
when you start to talk aboutwhat's on that paper, there's no
substance there.
And so um we are always tryingto drive towards understanding
(41:29):
uh, yes, what's your technicalum capabilities?
Do you really have the skillsthat you said you you have?
I'm looking for attitude andaptitude always, um, because
let's face it, you're not gonnaknow everything I need.
I just need to know that I canget you into the zone that I
need you to get to.
Um but we're all we're alllooking for the that same talent
(41:51):
right now.
Um and uh I I think I thinkwe're gonna all face a bit of a
shortage here over the firstcouple of years, the next couple
years, because it doesn'tnecessarily exist yet.
Uh and you know, the we'll saythe frameworks of of how people
can get educated, even the eventhis the educational component
(42:14):
in colleges and high schools,we're just starting to see full
curriculums that are gearedright at AI.
And and and there's new ones allthe time.
But two years ago, you heard alittle bit about it.
It was it was something thatpeople were thinking about, but
it's it's accelerated so quicklythat I think we've got some
(42:35):
catch up to do.
And so the fight for talent isis brutal, uh honestly.
Um and we're all struggling withit.
Um so we'll see where it lands.
SPEAKER_00 (42:46):
Yeah, and I think you're you're bringing up an
important point, and this issomething I was talking to
someone earlier about, wherewe're kind of in this space
where people are sacrificingskill development for speed.
And to your point, they'll puttogether this unicorn framework
or um or resume.
And then once you go into thenuances or details, they haven't
(43:07):
quite learned it yet, so theycan't speak to it.
And so I think of the uh youknow, something important I'm
pulling away is like, you know,uh take your time.
Like, yes, leverage AI can be anamazing boon and hugely
beneficial to help you learn,but make sure that you learn it,
right?
And so if you're interrogatedabout it and you're asked about
it, you can speak.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Yeah, and and I I I think because we're at that
point in time I'd rather you behonest with me about where
exactly you are.
And if I see the potential inyou, I'm gonna develop you,
right?
I I I will invest in you.
Uh, and that doesn't mean justexternal, but internal people
(43:49):
too on on your teams.
Um, and I and I think that's animportant thing because you just
kind of hit the nail on thehead.
We want speed, we want it, butwe want it yesterday.
But our velocity to be able tolook to deliver in today's uh
environment is not, you know,we're not hitting on all
(44:10):
cylinders yet.
So we have some ramp up periodto get there.
And uh as much as, don't takethis the wrong way, as much as
our vendors are always saying wecan do it today, I know you
can't, because you're in thesame kind of boat.
You can do an awful lot more,but a year from now, those
products are going to be uh youknow rock solid and improved in
(44:31):
ways that um you know we werehoping to see today.
So it's a journey.
It's I I like to think of it,you know, this is a marathon.
Um, this is not just a singlesprint 40-yard dash that we're
trying to all get to, and thenit's all hey, we're all good.
No, we're we're far from there.
Yeah, and and I guarantee you,five years from now, uh ten
years from now, we'll be going,wow, I didn't see that one
(44:54):
coming.
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
So yeah, well, that that's that's kind of where I
wanted to close.
You know, this is future-proof,and we're you know thinking
about looking ahead.
I wanted to ask if you had tomake one bold prediction about
how AI will reshape enterpriseIT in the next five to ten
years, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Yeah, that's a scary one.
Um, and and I I'm sure that ummany people who who listen to
this probably will be going,okay, uh maybe I maybe I gotta
make some changes, but I think Ithink AI, um, like we said, it's
gonna transform how we how weoperate.
There's no no two ways aroundit.
(45:33):
Um I think what we're gonna seeis that much of what we'll
consider that middle ground ofmany IT organizations is going
to start to get whittled away.
Um and and uh you know somethingwe haven't really talked about,
but when you when you thinkabout where AI is going in the
(45:55):
context of its capabilities, uhit's learning all the time, it's
it's it's becoming more uh more,I don't want to say human-like,
but ultimately it will getthere, right?
And it's it's it's being able todo more critical thinking.
And so as that happens, it'sgonna reach that that
superagency uh level where Ithink a lot of those mid-level
(46:20):
decision makings andorchestrations and and um uh
things that we take for grantedtoday with with much of the IT
staff is is gonna change um andpossibly even be removed.
Um and so what does that mean?
Um that means we are gonna haveuh you know kind of a shift
(46:44):
coming from that uh productivityboast and agentic AI automation,
workflow automation kind ofmindset to um that new
enterprise view that iscompletely different than what
we have today.
And um it's not just that we'reautomating single tasks or
(47:05):
single processes, but we'reactually automating and creating
a very flat layer of anorganization and in some cases
eliminating it, making us veryfast, creating a lot of uh you
know new capabilities.
But it's also, I think, going tobe uh uh uh uh able to help
(47:26):
generate massive gains, but uh Ithink it's gonna also create a
lot of disruption, which is alittle scary.
And I I don't think a lot of theuh conversation is around right
now, that right now, becauseit's an uncomfortable
conversation.
And yeah, you know, it reallyshouldn't be because if if done
correctly, we're just kind ofintroducing what I would say is
(47:50):
more of a hybrid mode of andI'll just say humans, people
working alongside in harmonywith AI.
Um now that could become a wholedifferent conversation or or
discussion in and of itself at afuture time.
Um but that's kind of like thefuturist view, and and I and I
(48:11):
just think you gotta realize ituh it's gonna it's gonna flip
everything on its head.
Um, and not just in IT.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
Well, yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
And I think um that best casescenario though, where kind of
it's like the human AIco-creation and collaboration is
something that I really hopefor.
You know, I think that there'sto your point not a lot of
discussion around that, more ofa replacement, and it's it's
(48:41):
it's uncomfortable.
But I do think that there's aworld um, and I actually this is
something that I think might benon-consensus, but enterprises
in the careful way they'reevaluating these tools, how they
use them, especially whenthere's human centricity
involved, um, it's they'reprobably going to lead the way
in terms of the right way to dothis, right?
Because I think further downmarket, it's it's all about
(49:03):
experimentation, lack ofloyalty, where larger
organizations just have so muchmore at stake.
SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (49:08):
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (49:09):
Yeah, for sure.
Um I yeah, I I I think uh, youknow, when you think about the
frameworks that are are even yetto be produced too that will
enable a lot of this to happen,it's gonna happen pretty
quickly.
Um, and and it's not a topicthat I am truly uh uh even
(49:29):
remotely uh an expert on.
But um, you know, you're seeingframeworks for AI development,
AI strategy, AI governance, AIcompliance, AI security, AI ops,
AI.
I mean, I it it it's it's uhit's a big shift.
So um we gotta keep our eye onit.
(49:50):
I think we we've got to embraceit.
Um, but we also have anopportunity right now that I
think is really important toalso make sure that going back
to what we said earlier, itdoesn't get out of control and
create more harm than good.
Yeah.
Um, and and I'm with you.
I I think that harmony betweenuh we as people and those agents
(50:15):
and that that that tech, um, youknow, there's a lot of people
who are thinking terminator-likestuff, which okay, you know, you
you can go there, but um if donewell, it it should unleash just
massive amounts of pro uh ofpossibility, massive amounts of
of things that we couldn't solvebefore, massive amounts of
(50:38):
savings and and also somethingwe haven't even talked about,
capability for people to juststart new enterprises and new
companies with very littlefootprint.
Um I mean that's an excitingthing for people to be thinking
about.
If you're diving in, um yeah,who knows what what might might
(50:59):
happen.
So, anyways, uh the the few thefuture will be fun.
SPEAKER_00 (51:06):
Future will be fun, and I think that's the perfect
place to end.
So, George, thank you so muchfor your time today.
I really appreciate it.
Um, I know that occasionally yousend uh or you share your
musings on uh LinkedIn, uh, butis there anywhere else where
people can find you?
SPEAKER_02 (51:19):
Yeah, I mean I'm I'm on uh I'm on Instagram and um
you know Facebook and the usualthe usual suspects.
I I stay away from the TikToksyou know stuff of the world, but
uh um yeah yeah well awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (51:34):
Well thank you thank you so much for your time.
I truly appreciate it.
And um yeah, it's been a greattime.
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