1991: Miss Saigon, Color Me Badd, and Silence of the Lambs

This week we're looking at all the culture that popped from: 1991. From Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" to Color Me Badd's "I Wanna Sex You Up," from Miss Saigon to Silence of the Lambs, from the Van Gogh museum theft to the hubris of vulcanologists in love, we've got it all. Plus, our unmitigated gall from the week and so much more.

Fuzzy Memories is the podcast that celebrates the good, the rad and the fugly of the 80s and 90s. Three latchkey kids who made it out alive break down everything from Madonna and Masters of the Universe to Twin Peaks and Titanic. Join us to celebrate the hits, the misses and the misfits of the weirdest decades.

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Episode Transcript

(00:13):
Hi, guys.
Hello.
Hello.
Hi. Hi.
What's happening? What's new?
Just taking a look at theworld through a baby raccoon's eyes.
Is it better?
Not really.
Okay, yeah, yeah, there's morefree food, but otherwise at least

(00:34):
the baby raccoons in my yard,they have lots of free food. Yeah.
Yeah. So should we talk aboutsome unmitigated gall?
I think so.
Okay, I could go first becauseI've got a lifetime achievement award.
An unmitigated gall.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Congratulations.
Yeah. What lifetimeachievement award?
Can we just do this without aspecial segment? I mean.
Okay.

(00:54):
All right, all right.
I'm starting it right now.
I like it.
This is for a truly special,special group of people. A body,
if you will, a branch who sawall the gall that's ever existed
and said, hold my beer. And itis the Supreme Court of the United
States of America. Oh, yeah,yeah, yeah. For a few reasons. I
mean, another atrocity of afinal week in June with some just

(01:18):
real, real, real shitty,shitty, shitty, shitty decisions
that will go down in historyfor all the wrong reasons why? Also
a complete rewriting ofjudicial checks and balances. They
don't give a shit about any of that.
No, that was wild. It'sactually just done.
Yeah, just rolling on over.Also, lifetime appointments. What

(01:39):
the fuck?
No.
Who has that? No, I don't wanta lifetime appointment to a job.
Why would I want a lifetime appointment.
To a Supreme Court? To anything.
To anything.
Can they leave when they want?They can leave.
Like, they can retire.
Amy Comey Barrett wants toopen like a, I don't know, an Etsy
store. Like that can just be like.
Yeah, we should encourage herto open an Etsy store so she gets

(02:02):
the out of there.
Yeah, agreed.
Yeah. But also their abilityto do wild swings because it's the
10 year anniversary of whenthey said gay marriage was legal
and here we are since wherecorporations are people, women are
not. And now we're justletting Trump do whatever the fuck
he wants. So I just want togive a big congratulations to the

(02:25):
Supreme Court for a lifetimeachievement of gall. Especially Amy
Coney Barrett, BrettKavanaugh, and the OG definer of
gall, Clarence Thomas.
He's so gross.
So gross.
Gross. That's the best wordfor it. It's just gross.
Just him and his wife. Justthe gall of galls. Just living out
gall and you know what's really.
And doling out decisions,especially Gaulish about the whole

(02:48):
thing. What is that? I don'tknow about you, but when I was little,
like the Those types ofpositions, in my mind, like, those
are the greatest legal minds.Right. Like, that's a new level.
Like, just like, oh, becomingan astronaut is like a new level
in your field. You know,that's like something to aspire to.
Like, those are the. Theyhave, you know, done the work. They've
been lawyers, they've beenjudged. Like, they. They are the

(03:10):
thought people. Like, we'regoing to think this out and make
the best. And now it's like,such a joke. And I feel so sad.
There's no thought. No.
I feel sad a lot of times forour youth because I'm like, why would
you look up to that and thinkthat was a goal worth achieving?
You know, it sort of dummiesdown the US for centuries. Because
people aren't going to look atthat and say, oh, that's something

(03:30):
I should aspire to.
Yeah. No, no. Yeah. It's justgoing to attract more of the, you
know, crazy folks.
Yeah.
And the. The yes people andall of the ones who really like beer.
And none of them. Youshouldn't be on the Supreme Court
if you're partisan. Like, noneof it should be. Like, nobody should
be on it if you're. Youobviously lean one way or the other.
You should be. Exactly.

(03:51):
You know, I shouldn't have anyidea who you probably voted for.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I shouldn'tknow either way.
So. Yay, America. Yay 4th ofJuly. And yay to the new category
of lifetime achievement, whichyou guys are more than willing or
more than.
I don't know. That seems likea good group to have in there. I
think we'll have to.

(04:11):
Well, I think we can handlemultiple lifetime.
I do, too. But I think we haveto really think about. I mean, that's.
They have really done their job.
They've done their job.
Yeah, they have really someshit up.
Yes, they have. Yeah. So, youknow, I mean, it's something to aspire
to for all of the people thatgive us gall. Like, if you're out
there and you've been thinkinglike, oh, they're probably. They

(04:31):
probably find some gall withme, there's more room to go. Nowhere
to go but up.
So much gall.
Yeah.
There for the taking.
What about you, Erin?
My unmitigated gall isgrandchildren, but one in particular.
All right.
Yeah.
One in particular today. Andwhat it is, is because I. They are

(04:57):
a delight, and they're alsoterrible. And so Mike and I often
refer to them as Sour PatchKids, because you get sour and then
sometimes you get sweet.
Okay.
And Jax my 4 year old grandsondid this yesterday to a T in a way
that cut me to my core. Okay.I made dinner. They were at our house
yesterday. I make dinner. AndI'm trying to, you know which.

(05:19):
Is your favorite activity ofall time.
If anyone knows me, they knowI love to cook, but you can only
order pizza so many times withyour grandkids or, you know, buy
them McDonald's Happy Meals.And I was like, I'll just make. They
love, like, chicken strips andMac and cheese. So, like, I made
homemade chicken strips. Okay.Which my kids like. Okay. It'll be
fine. Right? So Jax is goingthrough a phase where he's not super

(05:39):
pumped about eating in general.
Okay.
But so I get him to the table,he sits down, we're all at the table.
He takes one bite and says,grandma. And I said, yeah. And he
goes, this chicken ishorrible. Oh, dead pan delivery.
Death pan delivery. And Isaid, wow, okay. And no one else

(06:02):
said anything. I said, noone's gonna defend that. It's better.
Like, we're just all out heresecretly believing it's horrible.
And then no one said anything.I ate the chicken. It was fine.
So I don't know, did anybodyelse eat?
Oh, yeah, they all eat it.Okay. Yeah. So it was. It's just.
It was purely Jack's thing. Sothen I'm kind of salty with him,
right?
Yeah.
He eats his Mac and cheese.Doesn't eat anything else. So then

(06:22):
I'm like, well, your snackshave. You don't get a treat. Your
snacks have to be healthy,like apples, you know, cheese stick,
whatever. And he said, I don'tneed a snack. And I was like, kid.
Right? Right. We go outsidelater and he decides to do some chalk
drawings, which the kid isvery talented with chalk. I'm gonna
give him that. I don't evenknow what goes through that kid's

(06:43):
head, but he does. Shading. Heblow on it. One time he asked Mike
to get out a leaf. Bl. Blowthe extra dust around so that it
made a pattern. Yeah. So hedraws a picture and says, grandma,
this is for you. And it was asweet little, like, oh, I thought
it was, you know, rainbow happy.
Thought it was going to belike a penis or something.
No, it's going to be a chickenstrip with a line through it.
Yeah. Horrible, horrible. Andthen I was like, oh, you're so sweet.

(07:07):
And then right after that, hisbrother lost a ball. He threw it
in the street, and it wentdown the drain before I could get
it. And Ford is, you know, notquite too. So he wasn't understanding
the concept that it's gone.Like, I can't get it.
And so show him Stephen King's it.
Yeah. Never, never go near adrain again, sweetie.
Little Jax goes, ford is gone.It's. It's with the fishes now. And

(07:32):
somehow Ford accepted that,like, okay, the fishes want a ball,
too.
Wow.
So you get both sides. Butyesterday just was like, you know
what, kid? You're horrible.
Them's fighting words.
It was. It was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And hitting you where ithurts, too, because, you know.
Yeah.
You're not super confident inyour food.
I don't love to cook. It'sjust not something that I've ever

(07:54):
like. I. I think it'spartially because I have an insecurity
about it, because I've neverreally been taught anything in the
cooking arena, so everythingI've learned, I've learned on my
own. And you know when you dothat, you feel like this isn't quite
right. Like, I don't know ifthis is the right way to do this.
That's why I never want tocook for anyone. Yeah. I feel the
same way. Yeah.
And you do your best, and.Yeah. And I was like, okay, well,

(08:15):
note to self. There's not toomany times to order pizza. We'd be
done with this.
Well, it also doesn't helpthat. When was it? A few years ago,
your youngest son called your.Was it beef and noodles or what was
it?
No, it was like a stir frywith noodles.
Yeah.
Dirty old soup.
Yeah.
It's not even a soup. And hesaid, this tastes like dirty old

(08:37):
soup. This is also the kid,though, that went to Lucky Lotus
and said that his meal tastedlike silverware.
That's true. He did. Yeah.
The good news is you can sendthem home.
True.
Yeah. You don't have to lookat their list.
Wonderful. Yeah.
You can be like, sorry, nowyou're done.
Yeah. Now go home and eat yourother food.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(08:57):
Ask them, do you want a refund?
Yeah.
Oh, you didn't pay for this.
Oh, you didn't pay. Oh, you'refreeloading. At least just pretend,
you know, you don't even haveto say it out loud even if you didn't
eat it. I've never in thehistory of time, forced a kid to
eat food so well.
And we've all learned topretend. That's a part of being a
human is you have to pretendthat the food you're eating that

(09:18):
someone made for you isn't shit.
Right.
Would it have been better ifyou Would have eaten that chicken
strip and then just like, mmm,mmm, over the top about it. This
is the best thing I've ever had.
I'm more. I love you. So muchviolence. Like, you just ate your
Mac and cheese and left thechicken. I would have gotten the

(09:40):
idea, you know?
All right. What about you, Heath?
I mean, this isn't likeSupreme Court level stuff, but my
admin. It's bugs.
Agree. Hard. Agree.
I love that she came withSupreme Court lifetime achievement.
I said grandkids, and you said bugs.
Yeah. We didn't. This is proofwe don't meet about these things

(10:00):
before we record everybody.
Right, Right.
We're finding out in real timewhat our.
What our research is. Butthat's the thing. Gaul has the spectrum.
Right.
There is gall way over here inthe simple things. And then there's
lifetime achievement goal. Sowe can talk about it all. Yeah. Yeah.
Specifically, bugs in mymouth. Oh, shit.
That's a whole new level. Thatis a lifetime achievement.

(10:22):
That is definitely lifetimeachievement. Yeah.
I bet you get a lot when youbike ride.
That's what I. When I ride mybike, you have to. I mean, you know,
you're working, and so youdon't just breathe through your nose,
you breathe through yourmouth. And sometimes a bug gets in
there. And you know what, bug?Why do you want to be in there?
Yeah. What are you doing?
Get the fuck out of there.Also, have you ever heard of consent?
I didn't say that was okay, Bug.

(10:43):
You'Re entering my hole andyou're not saying please.
My body, my choice, Bug. Getthe fuck out of here.
Well, that reminds me of thatquote this week from Real Housewives
of Miami. Sometimes what'sgood for the whole isn't good for
the soul.
Oh, yep.
Yeah.
Which is facts, Bug.
Yep. It is. So that Buck needsto. All the bugs need to watch more

(11:05):
Real Housewives. I thinkthey'd all be better off.
Agreed.
Agreed. Yeah.
Yeah. But it's. It'sparticularly gross. On the bike trails
that are near the river,there'll be lots of little mats,
and they're just kind of stuckall over you when you get home. And,
I mean, I know that going in,but still, I don't. I want to have
my mouth open if I want.
Do you feel like. And that isyour right. Especially during pride.

(11:33):
I'm a white man in America. Ican have my mouth open if I want.
Want.
I feel like we need to start aspecial segment that is Heath not
trying to convince us to bikeride. Like, we're already There,
like, every time.
He rides his bike, we'rethere. Yeah.
He's like, oh, it's hot out.Yeah. Now there's bugs in my mouth.
Yeah, no, thanks.

(11:54):
Don't even get me started onthe people on the bike trail.
Oh, that would be some gall,too. Do you think that by the time
you return home, though,you've gotten some extra protein?
Probably.
Bugs.
Bugs, yeah. Okay. That's good.
Yeah. I feel like it isentertaining, though, for the other
people on the bike trails,though, when I do swallow one, I'm
like. And they're, like,passing me, and they're like, oh,

(12:16):
well, he'll probably die.
No need to stop.
I was going to go, just. Bugsin general was disgusting. So. Yeah,
in your mouth. That's wherethey don't belong. Definitely. Should
we do a little recap? Allright. Because we're talking about
1991. And I will say our last1991 episode was pretty toit.

(12:37):
T O I G H. That was.
Not the word I was expecting,and I liked it.
I Talked about Terminator 2. Italked about a roundup of weird news,
and I talked about the end ofthe Soviet Union because, as we know,
I'm on the Soviet beat. By theway, a follow up on that thing I
didn't know that I discoveredthis week is that when the Soviet

(13:00):
Union ended, there was aSoviet cosmonaut who was in space,
and he was not able to return.So he stayed in space for 10 months
because they didn't have theirtogether down there to bring him
back down.
And they knew for 10 months.And I'm apparently waiting for like.
Well, that was like those twothat were up there forever.
Actually, I take that back. Hewas supposed to do military service

(13:21):
during that time when he wasstuck up in space, but. And the army
almost issued a desertionwarrant because they couldn't find
him. And then they realized,oh, he's still up in space.
Huh?
That's what happens when thewhole government collapses, is you
forget the guys up in space.
Can you imagine, though, ifthey would have come back? They're
like, why are you late formilitary service? I was in space.
Okay, sure, sure, sir.

(13:44):
Yeah. Aaron, you talked aboutthe Carmen Sandiego show, Quality
Television. You talked aboutKFC changing its name.
I mean, do you.
Kfc? And then you gave usmaybe the best story of all time,
which was the Turtle Pies.Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.
Turtle Pies.
And we discovered Pie Foot.
You guys decided that was thereason that my feet are screwed up.

(14:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Good.Heath, you talked about don't tell
mom, the babysitter's dead.Talked about the Maury Povich Show.
Yeah, yeah.
And you talked about WhitneyHouston killing the national anthem.
So shall we move on to 1991?
I think we shall.
Okay. I've got my first one isPearl Jam releases 10, the album.

(14:31):
But more than that, the song.Jeremy was on that album.
What's funny is just it wasprobably Tuesday or Wednesday. I
was. I left work and I wassitting at a stoplight and I could
hear the car next to me hadJeremy turned up so loud. I could
hear it in my car. And we bothhad the windows closed.
Whoa.
Whoa. Yeah. Cause I kind oflook, you know, you. I hesitantly

(14:53):
looked over because you don'twant to make eye contact with somebody
next to you. And then you'rejust sitting there at the stoplight.
Wait, you know, and it's kind of.
Or make it seem like you'relike angry. Right. Like I always
feel like I make eye contact.It looks like I'm saying something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I kind of. I kind ofglanced over and yeah, he was enjoying
it. And it didn't. I couldn'tget a read on the age between the
window tints and stuff. So Idon't know if it was like a teenager

(15:13):
or if it. Somebody who waslike our ish age. Seems. That seemed
really loud to be listening.
To it, but I'm gonna say it'sa teenager who's discovered that
this song still slaps 34 years later.
Excellent use of slaps.
Thank you. I was gonna say.Was that right?
It was.
It was. Okay.
Stellar.
Thank you. So the song, as wemay remember, tells the story of

(15:34):
a troubled kid with shittyparents who gets more and more angry
and then something really badhappens. But that bad thing was sort
of muddled. First, theinspiration for the song came from
a real story. Jeremy WadeDell, who was a 15 year old boy from
Texas. He took his own life infront of his classmates on in 1991.
In January, he briefly leftclass after his teacher told him

(15:57):
to get an attendance slip. Hereturned instead with a.357 Magnum
and said, Miss, I got what Ireally went for. And then he shot
himself.
Oh, gosh.
Oh my God, that teacher.
So that story was kind ofbuilt on in the video for Jeremy,
which came out in 1992. Butthe song, you know, was part of the
album from 1991. I don't knowif you remember, but it. That video

(16:19):
was everywhere on all theTime. But what was really Wild is
that it kind of presented anunclear end to the story that then
people used in bad ways, as weare want to do in America. So in
the video director's originaledit, which I didn't know until I

(16:40):
saw this, and it's nowavailable on YouTube, Jeremy is clearly
seen putting the gun barrel inhis mouth. But in the cut that we
saw on mtv, they cut out thatpart. So for so long, I know I was
still unsure, did he shoothimself or did he shoot the kids?
Right.
And so by cutting that part,they inadvertently like sort of advertised

(17:01):
a school shooting instead of a suicide.
Yeah.
So of course, as happened inthe 80s and 90s, the adults freaked
because in 1996, a 14 year oldboy named Barry entered Frontier
Middle School in Washington.He shot and killed two fellow students
and his teacher. And at thetrial, his attorneys said that the

(17:23):
boy was inspired by two piecesof media, the Stephen King novel
Rage and the Jeremy video. Andthe attorney went so far as to say,
this boy is Jeremy. And I bethe thought, this is my killer line.
I am getting it after this.But the defense failed and the. The
kid was found guilty and wentto jail for many, many, many years.

(17:45):
We all remember MalcolmGladwell. I think you took some opportunity
to bitch about him on broadsand books and how he just gets things
wrong.
Yeah, he just, it's. He goesto the simplest idea and says that
that's like the solution foreverything. No nuance.
Yeah. So years later, in anarticle for the New Yorker, Malcolm
Gladwell seized upon thatstory of that kid and the defense

(18:07):
as the beginning of the modernphenomenon of school shootings. No,
but as he commonly was, he waswrong, because there was a study
in 2018 that said there wereactually more school shootings in
the early 90s than in theyears afterward. But the difference
now is that each schoolshooting is amplified more, it's
taken more seriously, theyseem more impactful, that kind of

(18:29):
thing. So all of that to say.So there's this big uproar about
the video, right? And this wasone of Pearl Jam's relatively first
videos because this is theirfirst album. The album is going bonkers.
It's doing great. I think theymaybe had Evenflow come out first
and maybe another video. Sothen when Jeremy come out and lots

(18:49):
of people were like, what thekind of thing, they declared they
would not make videos anymore.In fact, the. The guitarist Jeff
Amenti said, ten years fromnow, I don't want people to remember
our songs as videos. EddieVedder immediately agreed, saying
that the next Pearl Jam recordwouldn't have any videos. A vow that

(19:10):
would hold true for the nextfive years. And he said, I don't
even have mtv.
And MTV clutched their pearlsand said, excuse me.
But also, I mean, we probablyall know, like, Pearl Jam, they've
been very prolific in, like,supporting causes and things like
that. And so once they sort offound out that, like, especially

(19:30):
young white men started takingthis as, like, this is like, our
folk hero kind of thing, henever again wrote songs that would
express any sort of sympathyfor potentially violent white guys.
Right.
Instead, he began criticizingthose people in his lyrics.
So it's sad because that's anuanced issue. Right. I mean, the

(19:51):
reason they wrote that song isbecause they're, you know, they were
already. Which I think is thegetting more attention, probably
still not the amount that itdeserves, but they were trying to
bring notice to mental healthissues and those types of things
and, you know, how we impactpeople every day. And instead it
got taken like that.
Which is, you know, as ithappens, right? And as I started

(20:11):
to say the, you know, thedefense that they were using, like,
the song made him do it, youwere starting to shake your head
because we all know thosestories, right? Of like, oh, my God,
the music made them do it. Themovies made him do it after Columbine.
Yeah. They were like, it wasthe Matrix.
It was the Matrix made them doit. Yeah.
You know, there's beenviolence in movies and on TV for
years and years and years, andmillions of people have not gone

(20:33):
out and done the thingsthey've seen in the. In the movies.
And more than movies, there'sviolence on. On the TV news. There's
violence in the, you know,like. Well, also too easy explanation
that never.
Fully explains things becauseif one thing is true, then the opposite
should be true. Like, whyaren't there a bunch of people out
in the world, you know,there's a bunch of social justice
movies. Why doesn't thatinspire loads and loads of people?

(20:55):
If we have this, you know,ability to influence someone just
with a movie or just with asong or just with a show, like, it
doesn't. It doesn't hold trueon both sides.
Yeah. And we all know, like, Imean, power of stories, right? Like,
love some good stories, but wecan also differentiate reality from
not.
That's where the problem is.It isn't the story. It isn't what.

(21:16):
The violence. It isn't whatyou're seeing. It's the inability
to differentiate because we'refailing society in certain Aspects
for sure.
But really what came out ofthis is that I discovered Eddie Vedder
was hot.
That is a discovery.
Yeah, like 1991. Eddie Vedder.
Peak. Oh, peak.
Long hair Eddie Vedder.

(21:38):
He's really made it terriblebecause, like you're. At least for
me, some of my first datingexperiences, I was like, oh, okay,
so the, the fantasy is not asgreat. Like you're actually just
kind of a grungy person.
Yes. So the guy that's lookinglike Eddie Vedder actually isn't
cruel.
Like Eddie.
Better. Yeah. Same thing withthe Nirvana guys. Same thing with

(22:01):
all of the bands. It wasdefinitely my type, though.
All right, so I'm gonna bringa fun true crime story. I still have
questions and I think you willtoo. Okay, so this happened in 1991
in Amsterdam. And it was. It'sa pretty famous museum theft because
it was the Vincent Van GoghNational Museum in Amsterdam. And

(22:25):
it's one of the largest butalso the most short lived art thefts
on record. Because they didtake a record 20 paintings out of
the museum, which is a crazyamount. They took some of his most
famous paintings.
But my question always withart thefts like this. And maybe you'll
address this maybe. I'm sorryif I'm jumping.
No, no, you're fine.
Like, when you steal a famouspainting like that, what are you

(22:47):
gonna do with it?
Yeah, like, how are you gonna.
It might be worth a ton, butlike, it's not. Like you can just
go sell it to like, you know,people down the street and they're
gonna put in their living roomand no one's gonna.
No, there's apparently there'sa very large. As most things on the
black market and I think hasgotten more prolific with the Internet.
There's a very largeunderground like black market for

(23:08):
stolen goods. So like thiswould change hands and no one would
know. And it's like creepy assbillionaire trillionaire Colle. Keep
it in a locked place. No oneknows they have it because they know
it's stolen. But it's like,you know, I don't.
Know, but that's their thing.It's just knowing that they have
this thing.
Jeff Bezos has to have a wholeroom full of stolen art.
Yeah, it feels like, I mean,this is like a cartoony kind of description

(23:32):
of it, but it almost feelslike the Knives out movies, like,
you know how they like havethese elaborate places that they
live and all this art and.Yeah. And you know, most people don't,
I would imagine if you're artcollector and you're in the art world,
you have a good idea of whatpaintings are where or like, when,
if they've been stolen orwhatever. But, like, if you. If I
went to a billionaire's houseand you showed me some Vincent van

(23:54):
Gogh painting, I would belike, wow, that's amazing that you
have that. It wouldn't evenoccur to me that that had ever been
stolen. So there's a lot ofquestions that happened throughout
this theft for me that I just.I just. There's no answers to, but
they should be asked. Thethieves appeared in the museum at
about 3am on Sunday morning.They concealed themselves when the

(24:17):
museum closed Saturday at5:00pm oh, that's my first question
that's so long to hide out ina museum that has security guards.
And where were you hiding?
Apparently, from what I cangather, in the bathroom on top of
the toilets.
And what?
That's another question that'snot just part of security protocol

(24:38):
to bust those doors open andmake sure they're empty. I would
think that's true of any placeyou close down. Yeah, like, that's.
That's middle school. 101standing on a toilet, like, what
are we doing?
And then you do thatsupposedly for what, like 10 hours
or something?
So long to be in there. Andthen we. Are you talking ever to
your buddies? Like, how'd you.Was it 3am on your watches? Or you
guys are just like, I don'tthink anyone's coming. And then you

(25:00):
all jumped out, like. So onethief emerged from the bathroom wearing
a ski mask and wielding a gun.He then approached two of the security
guards that were on duty andlocked one in a storeroom who they
later believed was anaccomplice. The one that he locked
in the store room and forcedthe other security guard to open
the front door and disable themuseum security systems. At this

(25:24):
point, another thief enters.They carefully scanned the museum
for 45 minutes.
Wait, did the thief enter from outside?
That's what's unclear to mebecause they make it sound at one
point like there was multipleof them in the bathroom. But then
one did come in the front dooras well.
So he didn't have to wait inthe bathroom all night.
He just got to walk. Waltzright in. Although. Okay, so that's.

(25:48):
That in of itself is wild.You're in the museum for 45 minutes.
Like, there's no othersecurity. I mean, 1991 isn't like
we're not in the stone age of technology.
It's still just a few minutes.I assume police Response, Right.
Yeah.
If the security systems getsdisabled at the Vincent Van Gogh
National Museum, like, thatdoesn't trigger anything.
Yeah.

(26:09):
So 45 minutes they walkedaround and decided which ones to
take. That's my second question.
Okay.
They could have done thatahead of time.
They could have done thatahead of time.
They could have gone inSaturday during the day or any other
day.
Saturday to get concealed. Whydidn't you walk around and see.
Your just wasting valuable time.
I'll take that one.

(26:30):
This is when I was like, theseare dummy chickens. These are people
not prepared. I'm sorry, butif we were pulling off an art heist,
we would be prepared. I wouldknow where it was, what location.
We'd have a list and a map.
And then we check that list off.
Yes.
I'd bring things to do whilewe waited for 10 hours.
Thank you. Yeah.
We would have silentactivities that Heath brought us.

(26:50):
Yes.
And snacks.
And we'd have a better hidingplace. We wouldn't be hiding on top
of the toilets.
Yeah, that's just on themanagement. You are. You are gonna
have to stand up and stretch.
Yeah.
What if you have to use thebathroom? I mean, it. The whole thing
is. It's wild. Yeah. I feellike you're trying to get caught,
but.
Okay, this is.
At this point, they leave theVan Gogh museum in one of the guards

(27:13):
cars, and for some reason,they felt the need to tell us that
that was a Volkswagen Passat.
And so we're getting some.Some free advertising in with this
story.
We also just liked thatdetail. Like, let's pile into this
Volkswagen. Volkswagen Passage.
But I also feel like you'realso telling the police, like, this
is the car we're in and thisis the license plate. Like, you know,
because someone, the securityguard is gonna figure out their car

(27:35):
is gone.
Right.
And they're gonna put thattogether and they're gonna be like,
you know, if.
You look for that car, if you.
Didn'T steal that car, if youhad your own car, I mean, they wouldn't
know that. They wouldn't knowwhat the car was because no one would
be like, this is missing.
And you took 20 paintings, andthey apparently, like, shoved them
into, like, duffel bags. Butso I'm assuming.
Wait, you weren't evenprepared to, like.

(27:56):
Because I'm guessing theydidn't take the frames. I think they
cut the paintings out. Like,they. Because I don't know how you
would get 20 paintings inframes in duffel bags and fit them
into Volkswagen.
Yeah, yeah.
And so my bet. My. This Bringsup a whole nother logistic question,
which is why didn't you justlike have a van.
Yeah.
That you had somewhere aroundthe premises that we got into?

(28:18):
Yeah.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Certainly that museum has avehicle that they use to move things.
They must move things fromtime to time. They must have a van.
They could have used that 10hours standing on the toilet to plan
some.
Of this better and then abortmission and come back next weekend.
Like, oh, you know what? Wetried. This part works. This part
doesn't.
Yep.

(28:38):
Yeah.
Dry run. Take a dry run.
So this is the rest of thecockamamie plant. They make it as
far as the Amsterdam Amstelrailway station where they were going
to have a planned rendezvouswith a different car. So this is
where they're going to ditchthe car. This was thwarted when that
car got a flat tire.
Oh, no.

(28:59):
The car that was going to comepick them up. Oh, no.
So they did what they thoughtwas right in that situation, I guess,
and they just abandoned thefirst car and the paintings and fled.
Just decided we're about toget caught. We're done. Like, flat
tire. I'm out. This is toomany things that went wrong.
I'm out.
The universe is telling us something.
Yeah.

(29:20):
We would have also come upwith a better way to stash the stolen
art, but also like a way likeif things go wrong, we're not going
to just ditch what we stole.
I think just a, you know, 17point inspection at CarMax before
we're ready to go car sales,car wherever, car.
X. Yeah, you know, that's agood point too.

(29:41):
To make sure your tires areroad worthy and ready to carry 20
paintings of.
Maybe just take those cars fora little tune up.
Yeah. I'm also like. So theyhad very limited skill base too.
Like no one in that, in thatcriminal crew could hotwire a car.
Like there was nothing elsearound the railway station that you
could use to get away. Youjust left it all in the car and said,

(30:02):
well, it was a good run. Wedid our.
We did what we came to do.
Yeah, we got the paintings. Sothe paintings, some of them were
torn badly, some of them weredamaged. But apparently there is
some art recovery people or,you know, processes that allowed

(30:22):
them to fix a lot of thepaintings that were damaged. Some
of them weren't damaged atall. Three months later they had
four people arrested for it.They were all Dutch nationals. I
don't know why we had to knowthat, but we did.
Okay.
Who they would all spend Yearsin prison. But they also suspect
that they were working withhigher authorities, but they could

(30:42):
never get anyone to give upanybody else in the crime that they
think that maybe this wasordered by someone who was trying
to sell them or get them orsomething like that.
So not someone, like withinthe government or something?
But it could be. But I thinkthey were more indicating that it
was someone with more money.
And more ability or something.With these.

(31:04):
Yeah.
Yes. Oh, and Hans Gruber sawthem, like, give all this stuff up,
and he's like, unacceptable.
Yeah, done.
Wait, Hans Gruber died by thispoint? So he wasn't. Yeah.
Maybe it's Hans Gruber's cousin.
Descendant.
Yeah, it's the guy that JeremyIrons played later in Die Hard with
a vengeance.
Yeah.
Yeah. This is the part thatkilled me.
Okay.
The paintings were not coveredby insurance because of increased

(31:26):
premiums because there was arash of thefts around this time in
art museums that premiums forart museum and art was going way
up. And the museum said, like,it would make more sense for us to
just spend extra money onsecurity as opposed to paying these
insurance premiums. So thatwas my last question. How'd that
work out for you?
Yeah.
How did that go at the boardmeeting when you're like, well, we

(31:48):
opted to spend more money onsecurity and.
We got an ace team.
Yeah. And then they stole fromus, and now we don't have the insurance
money to. They had to pay outof pocket to have those paintings
restored and all that.
Is the museum still around?
Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Wow. Probably cost 500 to get in.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

(32:10):
And they probably set up awhole display about. This is how
this all happens.
I would think you would. Imean, why wouldn't you? Yeah.
Come. Take advantage. Yeah.
Well, now. You know, the thingI don't know about Amsterdam and
the Vincent Van Gogh museum,but I feel like there's this big
trend towards, like,everything being interactive. So,
like, you pretend you're therobber and you jump out of the bathroom,
and you have to get thispainting out of a frame in five seconds.

(32:31):
Or they have overnightadventures where, like, okay, we're
gonna lock you in at five o'clock and everyone jump out at three.
Yeah. And then you have to run.
Oh, no.
Your car.
You have to spend 45 minuteschoosing the right painting. And
if you choose wrong.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just. Thewhole thing from beginning to end
is so interesting to mebecause. What a failure.
Yeah.

(32:53):
Just a failure.
I really enjoy that. Most ofthe true crime failures that you
bring are just a bunch ofdudes that got way in over their
heads.
It's not. They're notforwarded by police. Let's be clear.
Security didn't do their job.Interpol didn't, you know, catch
him at the railway station.Nobody gave a shit. They got caught
by their own stupidity. Likeno one was going to catch them. And

(33:14):
they just. It failed miserably.
Wow. What do you got, Heath?
I would like to discuss a filmcalled Silence of the Lamb.
Oh, let's do it. Yep.
It came out on Valentine's Dayin 1991, which I think is so fitting.
Yeah.
What?

(33:36):
And we know it stars JodieFoster and Anthony Hopkins. And the
movie's based on the novel ofthe same name that came out in 1988.
The author was Thomas Harris.And this was actually the second
book that included a HannibalLecter. The first one was Red Dragon,
which was the basis for a filmfrom 1986 called Manhunter, which

(33:58):
was not a big success.
And that was like WilliamPeterson from csi, right? Yeah.
In the film, Clarice Starling,that's who Jodie Foster plays. She's
a promising FBI trainee, andshe's recruited to interview Hannibal
Lecter by one of herinstructors. The FBI is pursuing
a serial killer who goes bythe name Buffalo Bill. And they think

(34:19):
that Hannibal Lecter mightgive them some insights to help capture
him. So the guy right. In thehospital where Lecter is locked up
is an absolute creep. ClariceStarling, when he meets her, which
is really saying somethingbecause he seems like an absolute
creep despite the presence ofall of these lunatics.
Yeah. He's a duper creep.
Yeah. Sort of stand out inthat environment. It's really, you

(34:42):
know, it's a cut above.
Yeah.
When Starling and Lecter.Chad. He figures out why they want
to talk to and what shedoesn't really like, and Starling
decides to leave. And then theguy in the cell next to Lecter throws
semen at her when she walksby, which is not cool, dude.
Not cool.
Again, not cool.
You're like, acting like a bugon a bike trail.

(35:04):
Consent, man.
Yeah, yeah.
Can you. As someone wholiterally had shit on them yesterday.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I can't think of a lot ofthings worse than someone. Someone
unprompted, throwing semen at you.
A stranger semen on you, justhitting you. Yeah. Nope. And it gets
her in the face, doesn't it?
I could not recover. I'm done.I leave the FBI. That is it.

(35:27):
And it's right after, like,Lecter had, like, pushed all her
buttons and then, like, kindof scared her off. And so she's running
and everyone's screaming andse comes flying.
That's just an insult toinjury, but.
It does makes Elector feel alittle bit bad for her. So he kind
of decides to give her someclues. It seemed like prior to that,
he was just like, nah, I'm notdoing this. But, you know, so I guess.

(35:50):
Thanks, semen guy.
Yeah. Oh, he was in his celland was just like, oh, shit.
Yeah.
Now I'm gonna have to gainsomething. He threw it. He hit her
in the face. Oh, damn it.
I mean, I eat people, but thatis going too far.
I'll guess I'll throw her a bone.
Yeah.
This is why no one comes tovisit us, you guys.
Yeah. This is why they cut Mr.Hours all together.

(36:17):
So Lecter later kills thesemen thrower, as we know, and decides
to help with the investigationon the condition that they transfer
him to a different facility.So he sort of takes us. He's an opportunity
person. He takes us as a wayto sort of make his situation better.
I mean, I can't blame him.
Around this time, Buffalo Billabducts the daughter of a US Senator.

(36:38):
The Senator offers Elector atransfer deal, and if he tells her
something that will help findher daughter, but it turns out that
deal was bullshit. Lectertalks to Starling again, but won't
give up new information untilshe shares some personal details
of her own life. Because nowhe's sort of just enjoying kind of,
this game that he's playingwith her. Now is when we find out

(37:00):
there's some problematicinformation about trans people is
shared, and we'll kind of skipover that.
That's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But Lecter does eventually gettransferred from the hospital to
a glass cell in a Memphiscourthouse, meets with the Senator,
and tells her the name of theman who has her daughter is Lewis
Friend. But that's not true,right? He just tells her that Starling

(37:23):
figures out that Lewis Friendis an anagram for iron sulfide, AKA
Fool's gold.
Come on. That's too much. Mydaughter's missing. God damn it.
Why are we playing animals?
I can't play jumbo games rightnow. No time for Wordle. Let's go.
She gets on Lecter's caseabout it, but he won't tell her anything

(37:44):
else until she tells him morepersonal stuff. At this point, she
tells the story about livingon an Alto's farm when she was young
and how she regrets not savingthe spring Lambs from slaughter.
But she thinks saving thesenator's daughter will help her
get over that.
Yep, yep. Clear through line, right?
Uh huh. Uh huh.
It's totally the same.
Later that night, Lecterescapes his cell by picking the lock

(38:07):
of his restraint with a pieceof a pen that he got his hands on.
So he kills the two guardsoutside his cell and uses one of
their faces as a mask whileescaping. And, you know, creative
thinking. I mean, I'll givehim credit for.
That as you do.
More of a commitment than themuseum security guards or the deft
people.

(38:28):
Like, he had an actual plan.
Yeah.
And it involved grossness, butit was a plan.
And I think when you're goinginto that level crime, you have to
know you're going to be. Youmight get pushed to limits where
you have to do some weird things.
And they might have to cut a.
Face, deal with a flat tire.
And you know, somebody waslike clearing that up and was like,
we're missing a face. Yep,we're missing a face.
We're missing, we're missing a face.

(38:49):
Be sure in the APB to saythere might be a face.
Also, can you imagine justlooking at like the two cleanup crew
and they're like, what wouldhe do with a face? And then you're
both like, cool, cool. Do youthink he's wearing it? No, he probably
just kept it as secret.
We probably just ate it. It's fine.

(39:09):
It's cool, it's cool, it'scool. Don't think about it. Just
sweep.
Yeah, just sweep.
But I mean, now Clarice nowhas enough information to figure
out what. Where Buffalo Billis and that he's planning to make
a skin suit out of women. Sothat's what we've sort of bet.
Well, it's nice to tie back.It's a full circle moment. Yeah.

(39:30):
So Starling chases the suspectinto his own basement where she finds
the senator's daughter and isstalked by Buffalo Bill in the dark
as he uses night visiongoggles. And that is creepy.
Fucking scene to this day.
Yeah. The scariest shit I'veever seen in a movie when she's walking
around and, yeah, you don'tknow where it is.
Reaches out a hand and doesn'ttouch her.
But yeah, she kills BuffaloBill, saves the senator's daughter,

(39:53):
and graduates from the FBI. Sogood job, Clarice.
So is Hannibal Lecter Buffalo Bill?
No.
Oh, okay, sorry, I gotconfused. I've never seen the movie.
Oh, is that clear?
Sorry, I'm not sure. Do youlike scary movies?
Not particularly.
It might not be for you.
Yeah. I don't. I think that'swhy I've never seen it, because it
hasn't. I mean, thepsychological element to it was always

(40:15):
interesting.
And that, I think, is the mostpart. But, yeah, there's just a really
few, like, really potentscenes that are scary as fuck.
Okay.
During her graduationreception thing, whatever. Lecter
calls Starling and assures herthat he's not gonna come after her.
And he asks that she returnthe favor. And she does not make

(40:35):
that promise. You know, she'sa full fledged FBI lady now. She
doesn't want to tell him that.He does share that he's having an
old friend for dinner. Andthen you see the guy who ran the
hospital where Lecter waslocked up is walking nearby. So it
sort of, you know, suggeststhat he's gonna kill him and eat
him. Because, you know,Hannibal Lecter was a cannibal.
And at that point, theaudience is weirdly like, good job.

(40:57):
Yeah, go get him.
Oh, yeah. Okay.
Yeah.
Several actresses wereconsidered for the role of Clarice
Starling before Jodie Fosterwas cast. Michelle Pfeiffer, which
I could. I could see.
Yeah.
Meg Ryan, I cannot see.
No, that doesn't fit.
No.
Laura Dern.
Sure. Okay. I mean, she can doanything, but. Yeah.

(41:18):
Not as good as MichellePfeiffer, though, I feel like. I
mean, not that she can't dothings as good as Michelle Pfeiffer.
I just feel like Michellewould fit better in there. Yeah.
And then Molly Ringwald.
No, no, no.
Molly. Oh, shoot.
You know, in an alternateuniverse, Molly Ringwald was in Silence
of the Lambs, just like EricStoltz was in Back.
To the Future, Samantha Bakerfrom Sixteen Candles.

(41:42):
And in that universe, thingsare weird. Things are real weird.
The film was only one of threemovies to win all five major categories
at the Academy Awards.
Wow.
Best Picture, Best Director,Best Actor and Actress, and then
Best Adapted Screenplay. Theother two films are It Happened one
night from 1934.
Oh, yeah.

(42:02):
And One Flew over the cuckoo'snest from 1975. And it's still the
only horror movie to ever winBest Picture.
Did they call it a full horror movie?
I think that's probably kindof subjective. I think it's.
Yeah.
But even it's the closestthing to a horror movie to have ever
won.
Yeah. Yeah. I think it kindof, like, shares a lot with, like,
today's, you know, Hereditaryand Midsummer and stuff like that,

(42:25):
where there's a little bit ofgore, but it's Much more like a Mind
than anything. Yeah.
So, yeah, I remember my momdropping my friends off the theater
to see it. Sounds a LittleLamb, which seems weird. I had to
get a ride from my mom to gosee this movie.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
It's a good movie.
So you were what, like, 15 orso? Yeah, yeah.

(42:48):
There's some big gaps in mypop culture knowledge, but I know
so. I mean, that speaksSilence of the Lambs. It's so iconic.
Because I know so much of themovie or so much about the characters
and things. Just because it'sreferenced so much. Maybe I will.
Excellent choice.
Yeah, that was a good one.
I want to talk about aBroadway musical.

(43:09):
Oh, boy.
Is it Moose Murders?
It's not Moose Murders. Thisone was actually a success.
I got some. A lot of posts outof Moose Murders.
I still can't believe that youthought it was a Moose purge. I loved
that. I loved it so much.Like, I think it's a purge situation.
Well, I didn't know if it waslike, they had an overpopulation.
You know how they do that inFlorida and they pay people to kill

(43:32):
snakes? Like, I thought it wassomething like that. Like, they overtook
Minnesota.
Just had to kill all themoose. No, this is actually a success.
It premiered in 1991 afterpremiering in 89 in London in the
West End. So 1991 on Broadway,and then it ran for 20 years. And

(43:52):
it's Miss Saigon.
I've seen this.
Have you seen it?
Yeah.
Okay. This was the firstBroadway show I saw on Broadway.
Whoa.
Because I took trip. Exactly.
I didn't see it on Broadway.
I took a trip in 1994 withSmarty Kids, And I'll come back to
that. But it was right up myalley because. Well, I'll get into
that, too. So it's 1975.

(44:14):
Oh, what a teaser.
Yeah.
This whole thing is a TV afterthe break.
So it's 1975 in Saigon. TheAmericans have already lost the war,
but they're still sort ofhanging on in this embassy with a
lot of disgruntled soldierswith time to kill. So they head to
a brothel in the city run by aguy called the Engineer. And all

(44:37):
of his girls are getting readyfor the night's big show. And there's
a new girl, Kim. She's 17.She's lost all her family to the
war. She's trying to survive.And because she's a virgin, she's
a hot commodity. I'm gonnastop here and say.
Yeah, wait.
That I loved this show. Butthere are some fucking issues with
this show, and we're gonna getinto those.
I would. I would think youwouldn't be a virgin at a brothel

(44:59):
for very long. Like, I wouldthink. I, like.
Like, this is, like, first day.
This is her first day.
So they're still showing herwhere the break room is.
Exactly. Engineer is like,tonight, we are gonna make some money
off this girl.
All right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah. So Chris and John aretwo soldiers who are at the brothel,
and Chris falls in love atfirst sight with Kim. But now as

(45:20):
an adult, my question is.
So Chris is also a virgin?
No. My question is, how old isChris? Because he's an officer. And
so I'm thinking, like, wait,and he's been at the war for a while,
so how old are you, dude? Andwhy are you in love with a 17 year
old? But. Okay. One of themany, many questions.
It's also interesting becausewho the playwright had the option

(45:43):
to make, like, just say shewas 18 or 19. Like, that story would
still work. Like, her familywas gone and she had no way to support
herself. Like, there wasactually no reason to do that specifically.
Yeah. Huh. Nope.
Okay.
So Chris buys Kim and theyspend the night together, and he
asks her to move in the next day.
Oh, God.
Oh, no. So these never had an orgasm?

(46:07):
Okay, so these two shack up.
But then Chris, keep it inyour brown.
But then after, like, twodays, Kim's old boyfriend Tui shows
up and he's an officer in theViet Cong slash communist army, and
Chris kicks him out. But as heleaves, Tui curses them.
God damn it.
Just days later, the embassyfalls to the comments.

(46:28):
This is one of those times Iwish that we had, like, visual recording
because he's shifty eyes whenhe said he cursed them. Or amazing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.So it's just days later. Then the
embassy falls to thecommunists and Chris is forced to
evacuate. He can't get intouch with Kim, and so he leaves
Kim behind. And by the way,it's a huge scene in the play. There's

(46:50):
a. Like a full facsimile of ahelicopter that comes in from the
top, lands, picks up people,and then takes off again. Monumental.
And when I saw it, I think Iwas in my. I think early 20s. I was
in college, and I was soamazed by the helicopter brushed
right over the.
Oh, me too. Me too. Yeah,yeah. So then it's three years later,

(47:14):
and Kim is still in Saigon andshe's still pining for Chris. And
then Tui finds her, and heDemands that she come with him. But
she reveals she has a son,Chris's son.
Oh.
And Tui's like, nuh, we gottakill that half breed.
Oh, What?
Yep. Yeah. So he tries to killthe kid.
Oh, Jesus.
But Kim kills him instead.

(47:36):
Okay.
And because he is an officerin the Viet Cong in this new government,
she has to go on the run. Sosomehow she hooks up with the engineer
again, and they're friends,even though he was her pimp. And
they go off to Bangkok.
Her work friend became herreal friend.
Exactly.
It's really a story aboutworkplace friendships.

(47:59):
Meanwhile, Chris is in Americaand is married.
Oh, that son of a.
To Ellen DeGeneres. Yes.
Oh, they can break that upreally easy then.
Is this a prequel to Mr. Wrong?
Yep. It kind of feels thatway. Chris had been looking for Kim
for years, but then somehowfell in love and got married within

(48:20):
three years.
I don't know.
He finally finds out where Kimis, so he brings his wife to Bangkok,
where Kim is now hiding. Andthen Kim finds out her great love
is married. And so she wantsChris and Ellen to take her son to
America. And so she killsherself so that they have no choice
but to take him. And that'sthe end of the show.

(48:44):
Yeah. It's a heavy one.
So here's some issues.
Yeah.
Yeah. Besides the whole 17year old with possibly a 35 year
old, who knows? The engineerwas played by a white guy, Jonathan
Price, and he wore eyeprosthesis. Prosthesis. Prosthetics
and bronzing cream.

(49:04):
Oh, gosh.
Wait a minute. What do youmean by eye prosthetics?
So that they would.
Yeah, but like, what are theyputting on? Like, are we calling
tape eye prosthetics?
I guess so. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just like, what dowe. We made a mask. Like, what are
we, Hannibal Lecter now? Howdo you. We do this? Okay.
Yeah.
Got it.
And they killed a AsianAmerican every night and used that

(49:24):
face.
Yes. Well, I was seeing like.Like silicone eyes. And then they
were like, you know, makeupinglike they do, like the. But they
just.
A ton of bronzing cream. Yeah.I don't know.
Wow.
In fact, he's not the onlyone. All the Asian men were played
by white guys.
Oh.
But then all the Asian womenwere played by Asian women. And they

(49:45):
were all very scantily cladand objectified and all the things.
Right, of course.
So the writers and creatorsare white guys and Americans. So
we're working with a flawedviewpoint from the start and some
heavy objectification. Someheavy, like weird orientalism stuff
happening there, you know.They were inspired to create the

(50:06):
musical after seeing a photoof a mother of a half American kid
sending her child away. And Ihave a picture that must.
Have been quite the photo.
Yeah. So the mother isstanding there, the child is being
dragged away, and the motheris standing there in pain. And the
creators say that's what thewhole story line came to them.
Does this still run?

(50:27):
Yes.
Okay.
After the original productionran for a few years, another huge
issue. They changed the songs.Sometimes just the lyrics, sometimes
entire songs. So the originalrecording is kind of hard to find.
They did a full George Lucasand we're just like, let's with something
that everyone loves and justchange it. All the original songs

(50:51):
are amazing and the story hasenough wartime drama to compel, you
know, it's. It's great. I sawthis in 1994. I was almost 17 myself
and I was on a smarty pantskid trip, trip to New York and dc.
It was a week long trip whichcentered around visiting the un for
some reason, I don't rememberwhy or what. I don't really remember

(51:12):
anything in the cities besidesMiss Saigon. Like, I showed up to
this play, I had no idea whatit was about. And then I was like,
I am obsessed. I got the. Igot the soundtrack. I still have
the two CD set.
Oh, wow.
Downstairs. One thing Ihaven't mentioned, besides the Soviet
Union, I was obsessed withWorld War II and the Vietnam War.

(51:33):
So this was right up my alley.
That tracks.
Yeah. And then I saw it againwhen I moved to Chicago in 2000.
There was a touring productionand that's when I discovered they
changed all the songs becauseI had memorized the whole thing.
And I'm starting to like in myhead, singing along. I'm like, wait,
what, what, what are youdoing? They like changed plot lines.
It was up.
They changed it because itwas. They were problematic before

(51:56):
and they were trying to likewrite the ship. Or did they just
change it because they werelike, let's change it for the sake
of changing it.
Yeah. I tried to look up like,what was the rationale? And all I
could find was that thewriters were just like, well, we
just got to keep making this,you know, better. We just got to
keep tweaking it.
Like they thought people wouldcome and see it again who've already
seen it if they knew it was different.
It's a great question.

(52:17):
It's a dumb move because,like, people go and see the same,
like, I'll see Les Mis anytimeIt's here because I love that music
and love the whole story.Like, I. If you change the songs
on that, I would be livid. Iwould walk out. There's no way.
Well, there was all sorts ofdiscussions on Reddit in particular,
where there were people whowere. Like, the changes were so dumb
too. Like, they made the songsobjectively worse. Like, the lyrics

(52:40):
are shittier. Like, they'rejust not. You know, the original
songs had nuance and metaphorand these new songs do not. Yeah.
So that's me seeing MissSaigon. It also reminded. Because
I was remembering the New Yorktrip and the DC trip, and there were
maybe like 50 of us chosenfrom across the Des Moines area,
all Des Moines schools. And itreminded me. Then when I moved to

(53:01):
Chicago, I met a friend andshe told me that she also went to
New York, but when she was inmiddle school and she grew up in
Louisiana and her teacher, herancient geriatric teacher, which,
who knows if she actually was ancient.
Right. She was probably like 41.
Yeah, probably. We're probablyher age. Yeah. She took a bunch of
the middle school kids to NewYork. They. They took like a school

(53:24):
bus up to New York from Louisiana.
Oh, my God.
And then she basically droveor they drove into Times Square,
opened the bus doors and said,have at it. See, in 10 hours. And
just let these kids, just letthese southern small town kids just
run around the city.
Was. This was in the mid-90s,right? When times Square was not

(53:44):
what it is.
No, no, no, no. Yeah, thiswas. This may have been actually
in the 80s because she was alittle older than me.
Oh, okay.
So even worse.
Yeah.
Wow. And I asked, I rememberasking, did they all come back?
Yeah.
And she's like, yeah, we allmade it back.
Wow.
Yeah.
I don't know how to followthat except to say that I also loved
that musical and I don't thinkI understood half the plot. I mean,

(54:07):
I don't remember. It was toolong ago, but.
And by the time I saw it, Idon't think there was a white guy
playing the engineer anymore.I. I don't think I saw the original
cast because it was 1994. AndI think because pretty soon after
that. What's crazy is I sawthat when they started in 1989 in
London, there was a bigbacklash. Like, this guy is obviously

(54:30):
not, you know, Vietnamese orany kind of Asian. And the creators
were like, ah, should wechange it for the Broadway start?
And then they're like, nope.
And then just went ahead.
Americans won't care.
Yeah.
Which Is probably true. Yeah.
And then a few years afterthat, they started, you know, prioritizing,
actually hiring all Asianactors and actresses.

(54:51):
Okay. My. My next story is.Is. It's a bit of a love story. Oh.
And it's also. It just spoketo me because it's something we've
discussed. We even discussedprior to getting on the air. On the
air. On the air today, whichis hubris. Us deciding that we might
all die from quicksand becausewe're so sure we won't. And this

(55:12):
is hubris. Death, a love story.
Oh, is it an age appropriatelove story at least?
Yes. Okay, good. Okay. So wemeet Katya and Maurice Kraft when
they were both students incollege and they fell madly in love
with each other because theywere both obsessed with volcanoes.
They married in 1970. At thistime, the couple decided, we're gonna.

(55:35):
We're gonna honeymoon inStromboli, which is off the coast
of Sicily. And it's well knownfor a volcano that almost continuously
erupts. So they apparentlywere very talented photographers,
and they took these amazingpictures near the eruption, and people
went nuts for them. Like, theyshowed family, and then family's
like, oh, we need to show morepeople. And they became. They almost
got like this cult followingbecause these pictures were so awesome.

(55:57):
Awesome.
So from that point, not onlydid their love grow, but their career
grew. And they decided thatthey were going to follow volcano.
Volcanoes and be the first toarrive on the scene of an active
volcano. And they. Theystarted to progress into taking video
as well as, you know, photos.
And this is pre Instagram influencers.

(56:18):
This is. Yeah, they were like,basically volcano influencers before
that was a thing. And theywould also be film. Yeah. The volcano
effects after the eruption. Sothis was actually used in some countries
that maybe didn't have accessto mainstream news as ways to convince
communities to evacuate. Like,there'd be leaders that would say,
no, it's not going to be thatbad. Like, there's no reason to move

(56:40):
all these people out. And theywould show them their footage and
say, you know, this is whathappens after. So they were actually
kind of doing a humanitarianeffort as well. And they produced
films, photographs, textbooks,books, documentaries. I mean, they
really dedicated their livesto the education of what happens
when a volcano erupts, what itlooks like after. By capturing these
images and then kind offinding this market for people.

(57:02):
They had a volcano empire.
They did. They grew a volcanoempire. Volcano merch on June 2,
1991. Yeah, they had a lot ofswag, I assume. Yeah. On June 2,
1991. Maurice was quoted assaying, I am never afraid because
I've seen so many eruptions in23 years that even if I die tomorrow,
I don't care.

(57:22):
Oh, nope.
On June 3, one day later on1991, the couple was killed during.
Come on, Maurice.
Jesus Christ.
Volcano eruption at MountUnzen. Their bodies were recovered
on June 5.
There were bodies left?
Well, they were found near therental car, laying side by side.

(57:45):
The bodies were burned beyondrecognition, but were identified
using personal items,including Marisa's camera and watch,
which. I didn't say what brandthat camera was, but.
Right.
I'm just pretending it's anicon and get it.
Yeah.
Like, through you can survivelava, which I'm assuming at this
point they had a lot ofspecialty equipment just from heat
and, you know, ash and thingslike that that would go. But great

(58:06):
life they lived, you know,they did what they loved doing. I
just think, yeah, Katya wasprobably like. As they were running
you, Maurice, you had to beall yesterday, if I die tomorrow.
And here we are, dying tomorrow.
Apparently, he didn't care.
He didn't care. He didn'tcare. So I also have an alternate
theory that possibly he wentto a psychic, and psychic's like,

(58:29):
you're dying in a volcanotomorrow. And he was, like, convincing
himself, and he had aninterview and he's like, I don't
even care if I die tomorrow.
Yeah, it feels very, very muchlike a, like, toxic masculinity thing.
Like, I'm too tough for that.
It almost. To be honest, italmost had, like. Like a suicide
pact feel to it, because theywere found laying side by side by
the rental car. I mean, it's alittle, you know, it's a little creepy.

(58:51):
It's a. It's a lot. But, yeah, I.
But you're right. I mean, itis a lesson for us to not, you know,
invite quicksand, death, or amnesia.
Well, the good news is I don'tthink any of us are out here in the
street, the street, saying, Idon't care if I die in quicksand.
I mean, we're all afraid ofit. We're just sure we're not gonna
encounter it. That's true.
We're not taunting it.

(59:12):
Yeah, I'm not tauntingquicksand. I'm not taunting being
on fire. Drop and roll.
No. Yeah. We could go onrecord and say we might die from
that, because, you know, we might.
I just.
We don't want to.
We don't want to.
We don't want to. And I trynot to put myself in situations with
quicksand. I. Yeah, I can't.
I mean, we learned our lessonin the 80s as kids is that it's deadly.

(59:32):
It comes out of nowhere.
Comes out of nowhere.
And so it's best to avoidforested areas.
We thought there was quicksandin his backpack earlier.
That's what spawned this whole conversation.
Pulled out a diamet and dewsand on it, and we're like, what
the.
Oh, my God. Are you okay? Areyou okay? Is there a vortex in there?
What's going on?
I'm door. The Explorer. Backpack.

(59:53):
Backpack swiper.
No swiping.
For my second item. I want totalk about Color me bad.
Oh, yes. What a wonderfulchoice to end on.
We all do.
I don't know that I want totalk about them. I feel compelled

(01:00:14):
to talk about them.
We need to talk about them.
There's a lot to talk about.They're a quartet originally from
Oklahoma City.
Really?
Nuh.
Yeah.
Why is that so shocking?
I don't know. Because theyacted like they were from the streets.
Yeah. They seemed a littlelike they were from a sleazier town,
like Tampa, maybe. I don'tknow. Yes.

(01:00:35):
If you had said Tampa, thatwould have felt right.
That would have totally made sense.
Their initial lineup was BrianAbrams, Mark Calderon, Sam Waters,
and Kevin Thornton.
I couldn't have told you asingle one of those names if I tried.
I did not know before theInternet told me either.
No, no. Yeah. Not a chance.
They're probably best knownfor the fairly gross song I want

(01:00:58):
to sex you.
Up, which we discussed beforeis like, if someone said that to
us, that's the most repulsivething someone could have said.
Yeah. And because thank youwouldn't be doing it in a song necessarily
either. You'd just be like,hey, I want to sex you up.
Nope.
Nope.
I picture those bugs trying tosay that before they get in your
mouth. That's no good.

(01:01:19):
Did I. This is the grossestpickup line someone's ever said to
me. And I made the mistake oftelling Mike it, like, a long time
ago, and he frequentlyreferences it. Somebody at a bar
one time said to me, oh, wow,her hands are so small. They're gonna

(01:01:44):
make my dick look so big.
What?
Mm.
I was like, we're stillrecording, everybody. We just don't
know what to say.
Hold out your hands. Hold outyour hands. Okay. That guy had a
micro penis. Because her handsare not that small.
Yeah. So one. I was like, yousort of insulted me because you're

(01:02:06):
making it seem Like I havemini doll hands. Like Kristen Wi.
And two, you just told me yourdick is small.
Yeah, exactly.
On every level. Your pickupline doesn't work. And I just said,
gross.
I feel like this person hashad an experience where a lady was
like, this is not what Isigned up for. And love. So he's
probably. Maybe was justtrying to level set expectations.

(01:02:28):
We have maybe, maybe. Butevery once in a while he.
Was looking to avoid thatmoment when the pants come off and
you're like.
Put your hand around. It'lllook bigger. So every once in a while,
Mike likes to be like, oh,your hands are so.

(01:02:48):
That's the way to.
It's never. I should be clearwith the audience. It's never in
a sexual situation. It'salways like an off putting time.
Okay, good.
That's better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He means. Yeah.
I'd fear for your sex life ifit was. Yeah.
I one time an older man hit onme in a bar and he said. He said
you could be a model. Not likein New York, but maybe Chicago. That

(01:03:11):
was his. That was his pickupline. And I was just like, okay.
And just walked away. Like. Iwas just like, come on, dude. He
seemed surprised that I didn'tthink that was a compliment. Like,
I don't. I mean, I guess. Iguess so.
You're like a regional catalogmodel, but.
You know, you could be in likethe local Sears page, like 20. You're

(01:03:32):
not front cover material.
Which one untrue.
Yeah. And two untrue that youcould be a model in New York as well.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah.
Untrue that you have that qualifier.
The model thing is definitely.Yeah, we've discussed it. Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm gonna have a school busfrom Louisiana drop me off Times

(01:03:53):
Square.
Just be careful. You don'twant to end up the chaperone for
all those kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah. So I want to sex youup. But then they also had other
hits including I Adore MiaMoore, Kellen A on the lyrics.
Oh, yeah.
And then one all for Love. Butthe four is the number four.

(01:04:14):
So cool.
Yep. The four members F O U Rthe four members of Color Me Bad
met during high school inOklahoma City. When they decide to
form a group, they namethemselves Take One.

(01:04:36):
I love that they were alreadysetting up. There was gonna be multiple
takes. This is Take one.
But they changed it becausethey were became aware of an acapella
group that was named Take six.And they did not want that to be.
They did not want There to be.
It's like, there's too manynumbers flying around. This is not
gonna work. Work.
Also, like, Take four wouldn'thave been great name either, but

(01:04:57):
it would have beenrepresentative of how many people
there were.
True.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I guess I'm. I feel likethey. They thought, you know, they
started with such a bland namethat they went to something pretty
dopey with calling me Bad withtwo D's. Two D's.
Two D's. That's what I wastrying to remember. It was two A's
or two D's.
To get a record deal, theydecided the best approach was to

(01:05:18):
accost famous musicians andhoped they'd introduce them to record
executives. Oh, boy.
Oh, no.
The Internet says they didthis to the following acts. Cool
and the Gang, Huey Lewis andthe News, Sheila E. Ronnie Millsap.
What?
And Bon Jovi.

(01:05:38):
Was there any.
They're not even in yourgenre, dude. What are you doing?
Was there any details aboutwhat accosting meant?
They would just go to them andstart singing. Oh, no. Oh, my God.
There would be like. I thinkit sounded like they would be like,
hi, we're calling me bad. Andthey just launch into something that's.
Worse than hearing I want tosex you up.
Right?
Because now you're hearing Iwant to sex you up completely unprompted.

(01:06:00):
It is the.
It's the nightmare we thoughtthat existed with that song.
Poor Ronnie Milsap wasprobably just, like, having a coffee
somewhere and was just like, Iwant to sex you up was like, what?
Yeah, who are you?
Huey Lewis and the News? Canyou imagine?
And Bon Jovi.
What are you doing juststanding there in those tight, tight
jeans being like, sorry, I got it.

(01:06:23):
But speaking of Bon Jovi, oneof them saw Jon Bon Jovi at a movie
theater in New York and calledthe rest of the group to come and
meet him.
Oh, my God.
And they waited outside themovie theater for Jon Bon Jovi to
come out, then stopped him andsang for him. I would have called
the police. But what Jon BonJovi did is he invited them to be
Bon Joey's opening act thefollowing night for a concert.

(01:06:44):
What?
That's some. That's. So he didshrooms or something before the movie.
I want to know what movie itwas. I don't know, but I want to
know.
Wow.
Do you think that was, like,just a. A kind thing, or was it like,
just get the out of my face,or was it all of it? Like.
Well, that's a huge riskbecause what if they're actually.
I mean, they sang a little bitfor you, but what if they're terrible
or weird on stage?

(01:07:05):
Like, you brought that onesong. That part of that one song
they heard was the only thingthat was good.
Yeah.
Or the only thing they know.
Yeah.
We got one song.
Yeah.
The first take of one song.
First take of one song. We'llwrite the rest when we get a deal.
Yeah.
So in August of 1990, that'swhen they signed their record deal.
The record label wanted thegroup to record a song similar to

(01:07:26):
Do Me by Belle B. Devoe, ifyou remember that.
Yes. Yep. At first I got itconfused with Doing it from LL Cool
J.
Doing it and Doing it.
Doing it.
Well, you know what othersong? Always remember Al Cool J,
Mama said to knock you out.Yep, I'm gonna knock you out.
That came out this year, actually.
Oh, wait. 1991. Oh, gosh.

(01:07:49):
And you know, like, we allagree, like, Do Me is kind of rude
and horny in an off putting way.
None of this is working well.
No, no, it's not a good line.
So Color Me Bad recorded IWant To Sex youx Up, which would
become their debut single,came out in March of 1991 and appeared
on the soundtrack to theWesley Snipes film New Jackson City.
Oh, okay.

(01:08:11):
Yep. So the song was a bighit, but the group hadn't finished
recording the rest of theiralbum yet, so they had to hurry up
and get that done, which theyaccomplished in just a couple of
weeks. The album came out inJuly of 1991 and sold over 6 million
copies.
I think I was one of those copies.
Yeah, I think I was as well.
They were nominated for GrammyAwards and even opened for Paula
Abdul on their 1991 tour. Andthey kind of performed. They kind

(01:08:35):
of performed during the superbowl halftime show in 1992. If you
remember, that was the yearthat the Fox network aired live in
living Color during the superbowl halftime. Even though the super
bowl was on a different.
Oh, that's right.
Different network. So theywere trying to get everybody to change
a channel from that over toFox so they could kind of steal viewers.

(01:08:59):
Weird move.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm a little surprised morepeople haven't tried it since then,
but yeah, the super bowlhalftime show has evolved a lot and
is usually a pretty big deal now.
Yeah.
And this year, the super bowlhalftime show, the theme was Winter
Magic. It was a tribute to theWinter Olympics and featured Gloria

(01:09:19):
Estefan, somebody we allassociate with the winter constantly.
Whenever you think of GloriaEstefan, you think of the winter?
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Definitelynot those Miami hot beats, right?
Come on, baby, to the conga inthe winter Come on, baby, do the
conga.
They also appeared in anepisode of Beverly Hills 90210 the
following year.
Oh, I remember that, I think.

(01:09:40):
In which Kelly finds out whichhotel the group is staying at and
manages to get into theirhotel room and then convinces them
to join her at the Peach Pit,where they serenade the rest of the
cast.
So, Kelly, that's dangerousgirl. Like, going in that. No, don't
do that.
It seems like a group likethat letting a teenage girl in their
hotel room is kind of scary.

(01:10:01):
Not great.
Their second album came outthe following year. Not a hit.
What?
At the time, grunge and hiphop were gaining popularity, and
Color Me Bad's music didn'tfit into either of those genres.
The group put out two morealbums, but those weren't successful
either, and they eventuallybroke up in 1998. They did have a

(01:10:22):
song on the Stripteasesoundtrack, something we talked about
a few weeks ago, and that wascalled Sexual Capacity, which was
written and co produced byRobin Thicke.
Of course it was.
So it was rapey as fuck.
So now I need to brush my teeth.

(01:10:43):
Yep.
Because I said all this outloud. I'm sorry your ears hurt it,
but it needed to be put out there.
Ew.
I want to sex you up is kindof a polarizing song, having appeared
on both Blender's list of thetop 50 worst songs ever and VH1's
list of the 100 greatest songsof the 90s. So.
Wow.
There's probably not a lot ofoverlap between those two, but I

(01:11:06):
want to sex you up is inthere. The group did reunite a few
years ago and has toured withother 90s groups.
They were at your concert, right?
Yeah, yeah, they were in the Ilove the 90s concert. Yeah.
And I wasn't there, but it'smy understanding that the lead singer,
like, they were doing somedancing maybe for at one point, and
he had to, like, stop on stageand take a break because he was out

(01:11:27):
of breath.
Yeah, there was. Theirperformance was rough. It wasn't
great. And collectively, theaudience seemed to understand that
because right before they cameout, like, the amount of people that
got up to go get more beerwas, wow, we didn't come for this
act, clearly. Like, I mean,salt and pepper. There was no one
in line for beers. But didn't.

(01:11:49):
Salt of salt and peppa. Didn'tshe not. She left the stage at One
point. Because some of theirlyrics she does not jive with anymore.
Right. Oh, she's kind ofreligious. Right.
Is that true?
I believe. I didn't know thatthat was the reason, but I do remember
her leaving at some point.But, like, to be fair, like, they're
all older and that washappening a lot. A lot. It was super
hot and I felt like they were.I didn't know if it was like a water

(01:12:13):
break situation or like, colorme Back, like we're tired or maybe.
A pelvic floor situation.Maybe they had kissed your pants.
Yeah. You pissed your pantsout on that stage. Yeah.
Yeah. So I.
Which is something thataudience would have understood if.
And they were like fullydecked out, you know.
We applaud you for performingwith a weak pelvic floor.

(01:12:35):
Yeah. And they were in outfitsthat were like, wow, how are you
getting that off? You knowwhat I mean? Like. Yeah. So I guess
I didn't realize the reason,but that would make sense. Yeah.
To the Hot Tick Tock. Anddidn't. They did it every song but

(01:12:56):
one of them would have. Theywould have the girl kind of break
where they'd stop and talk fora little bit.
That was Boys to Men. I thinkthey did it a little bit. But Boys
to Men did it.
Did it for. Because I think.
I mean, that guy assume couldsing, but like, that was. He did
that.
Yeah.
And every voice demand song.
Girl, I've been thinking about you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know you've been seeing thatother man, but I just didn't care.

(01:13:18):
You should.
I had.
Which then provided fodder forevery Lonely island video ever. And
SNL clips. Yeah.
It's true. Yeah. That wasgood. Yeah. Evan and I had an argument
this week because I, you know,90s. We understand this. The Brandy
and Monica song the Boy Is Mine.
Yeah.
That's a classic. That belongsto Brandy and Monica. And there's

(01:13:40):
an Ariana Grande version andhe thinks it's better. And I said,
I can't speak to you for a few hours.
That's a good call.
I listen to the Ariana Grandeversion, and it doesn't really sound
like it to me.
It doesn't. It's not the same.
It's a whole different thing. Yeah.
But also, isn't it supposed tobe a. A duet? Like, isn't it?
Yeah, I think Brandy andMonica are on it in some capacity.

(01:14:01):
Yeah, they are. I think it'ssampled or something in there. If
I remember. I've only listenedto it once, but I was like, nonsense.
You don't have enoughappreciation for the original to
say that in my opinion.
You don't know the history.
Yeah. You didn't see theselling out a tour now with that
one song.
You didn't see the video wherethey were fighting Video.
You didn't feel that in yourheart that they were fighting over

(01:14:23):
the same guy and they weregoing to ruin a friendship?
It was rough. Yeah. Well, Iagree with you giving the silent
treatment to yourself.
I think sometimes you gottalearn a lesson about the OGs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well done, everyone. FuzzyMemories is a broads and books production.

(01:14:49):
It's hosted by Heath Smith,Aaron Johnston and Amy Lee Lillard.
Sign up at our Patreon forbonuses and new stuff and be sure
to follow us @fuzzymemoriespod on Instagram for clips and highlights.
See you next time. Everybodyspeak in your mics.

(01:15:15):
Hello.
Hello. Hello. Hello. Raccoon.
What'd you say?
Baby raccoon.
Oh.
Baby raccoon.
Baby raccoon.
Maybe that should be like acode word for us for something. Oh,
like we can just text eachother baby raccoon. And then one
of us can just say, don't doit. Like, it just means we're about

(01:15:35):
to make a bad decision. So allyou have to do is say baby Raccoon
and we'll be like, not a goodidea. I don't know what you're up
to, but I need you to stop andtake a beat.